Daybreak - Daybreak Special: Inside the world of 'datrimonial' apps in India

Episode Date: June 7, 2024

Desi dating apps are vying for parental approval. And their strategy seems to be working. A couple months ago, Agrima Srivastava, a 29-year-old media professional from Lucknow, had an awkward conversation with her mother. She wanted to know if Agrima had ever heard of Indian dating apps, Aisle and Better Half. That was the first time Agrima had an open conversation with her mother about her love life. She told her that she was on dating apps, but homegrown ones like Aisle and Better half, were "just too serious". Funnily enough, the very reason Agrima was hesitant to get on an Indian dating app is why her mom approved of it. And Agrima's mom isn't alone. Many Indian dating apps have positioned themselves as the perfect stop gap between casual dating and marriage. It allows people the autonomy to choose their own partner without their parents getting involved, while also connecting them with a pool of potential partners from similar communities and upbringings. It's like parent-approved dating. How do they work? And do Indian dating app users need them? We speak to Chandni Gaglani, the head of Aisle and three dating app users to find out. Tune in. P.S. while you are here, why don't you check out The Ken's early careers podcast, The First Two Years. You can listen to it here. 

Hi, this is Rohan Dharma Kumar. If you've heard any of the Ken's podcasts, you've probably heard me, my interruptions, my analogies, and my contrarian takes on most topics. And you might rightly be wondering why am I interrupting this episode too. It's for a special announcement. For the last few months, I and Sita Raman Ganeshan, my colleague and the Ken's deputy editor, have been working on an ambitious new podcast. It's called Intermission.

We want to tell the secret sauce stories of India's greatest companies. Stories of how they were born, how they fought to survive, how they build their organizations and culture, how they manage to innovate and thrive over decades, and most importantly, how they're poised today. To do that, Sita and I have been reading books, poring over reports, going through financial statements, digging up archives, and talking to dozens of people. And if that wasn't enough, we also decided to throw in video into the mix. Yes, you heard that right. Intermission has also had to find its footing in the world of multi-camera shoots in professional studios, laborious editing, and extensive post-production.

Sita and I are still reeling from the intensity of our first studio recording. Intermission launches on March 23rd. To get alert, as soon as we release our first studio. episode, please follow intermission on Spotify and Apple Podcast or subscribe to the Ken's YouTube channel. You can find all of the links at the ken.com slash I am. With that, back to your episode. A couple months ago, Agri Mastewa, a 29-year-old media professional from Lucknow, had a pretty uncomfortable conversation with her mother. It was actually about something that we all kind of avoid discussing with our parents at all costs.

And no, it wasn't about the birds and bees. It was a little late for that. Her mother wanted to know about her love life. It was only very recently that my mother asked me what better half and what Isle is and everything. And then I told her and then I told her I'm on these apps. So she liked the idea that, you know, I'm looking for people by my own self. At least she feels that I'm making some effort.

So for those of you who aren't familiar with Isle and Better Half, these are two homegrown dating apps. But Agriam isn't on either of them. She actually prefers apps like Hinge and Bumble. You see, Desi dating apps just aren't really her style. But, funnily enough, the reason these apps are not her first choice are exactly the reason why her mother approves of them. Okay, so with I, they actually look for like,

it's like a matrimonial app or something. Because they ask you, when are you ready to settle down and what are you looking? Not what are you looking for? They believe that all of you are looking for serious dating relationship for stuff. It's like all they needed was a Kundli match to make it a matrimonial app. Ironically, it was on a matrimonial site that Agriama's mom actually came across ads for better half an aisle for the first time. So clearly, Agriamah's mother is on a mission. Now that her daughter is close to hitting 30, which is above the marriageable age.

for women in India, like most Indian parents, she wants her daughter to find her lifelong partner. But Agriama isn't exactly on the same page. Yes, she's looking for a serious long-term relationship, but for her, that doesn't necessarily mean marriage. She's more of a go-with-the-floor and see where it takes you kind of person. So for her mother, apps like Ile, Better Half or Quack-Quack-Quack are the best bargaining chip. You see, these apps are made for your own.

an Indian audience, unlike say hinge, Tinder or Bumble, which basically just copy-pasted the Western dating model onto an Indian audience and hope for the best. But here's the thing. The Indian dating experience is so layered and frankly

so complicated that no matter which side you approach it from, whether it's your casual hinge or Tinder type of approach or from the exact opposite side which is the traditional matrimonial websites, it's still still like a Sisyphian task, almost.

So these dating apps are trying to crack the Indian dating market by positioning themselves right in between casual dating and marriage. It's sort of like the parent-approved dating experience. And we call them the datrimonial apps. Welcome to our fourth special episode of Daybreak Fridays. I'm Snigda. And I'm Rahel. And once a week, Rahel and I come together to talk about things in business.

and tech that interests the both of us. And it won't just be us. Depending on what we are talking about, we will also be bringing in a bunch of really interesting people on the podcast. And in this week's episode, we will talk about how Desi dating apps are trying to do something that they believe the OG trifecta, hinge Tinder and Bumble, cannot do,

which is building apps that are specifically created for the Indian audience. So how are they trying to do it? And do Indian dating app users actually want apps like that? We spoke to Chandni Gaglani, the head of a really popular homegrown dating app called Ayl. We also talked to three dating app users with very different experiences and expectations. Stay tuned. I'll start in 2014 and back then I think Tinder was the only one. It was before a lot of global apps had entered the country.

Right? So, Isle has actually moved with how users are thinking about romance and love. And no matter how the attitudes have changed, something stays evergreen. That's the hope for romance and the way they're looking for love. Right. So that stays constant. That was Chandney Gaglani and she heads Isle a dating app. Like she said, I was one of the first homegrown Indian dating apps to enter the scene.

This was back in 2014, just two years after Tinder had launched an internet. And this was a really exciting time, because according to the last census, which was conducted in 2011, 85 million urban Indians were considered single. For dating apps, this was a market waiting to be tapped. And over the years, a bunch of other dating apps enter the market. But Tinder, Hinge and Bumble have consistently been the most popular. Thousands of people get on these apps on a daily basis. But the general consensus is that they don't really work for people looking for something more meaningful and long term. And this is because of the perception people have about these apps.

Like Tinder is just for hookups. On Bumble, there's a lot of ghosting happening. Raya, the A-Listating app, is too pretentious. There was even a rumor doing the rounds on TikTok in the US that Hinge keeps its most attractive users concealed behind a $50 subscription. Meanwhile, in India, homegrown dating apps slowly started entering the picture and ever since they've been trying to redefine the Western notion of dating for the Indian audience. Now, when you get into user research, you start realizing there are multiple Indias within India, right? And there are multiple markets and each region is behaving differently. Each culture has a different nuance.

And you've got to really understand those before going after that market. So very simple things that AIL did before, you know, it could get into the space is, okay, so there are global apps and, you know, it's a popular notion that a lot of it is addictive. Like when you're using a global app, it's designed to be really addictive. AIL actually stayed away from that philosophy. Because AIL has been positioned between, say, matrimony and casualating, saying you will come to Ayle only when you're looking for a long-term relationship, something meaningful or something serious. If that's the objective, then I don't want you to get addicted to my app. I don't want you to swipe right and swipe left, just looking at images and focusing on vanity. Because really when you're looking for a partner, you're going to be looking at the entire profile, every detail that you need.

And it was in 2014, I'll probably have the longest and the most detailed profiles that there were in the landscape. So we actually tried out two Desi dating apps to truly get a sense of what Chandi is talking about here. Here's what went down. Demo time. So just for context, Stigda and I are sitting in the studio right now. It's 808 p.m. on a Wednesday. And we have downloaded to homegrown, Desi dating apps. And we're going to walk you through our experience.

And this is the sacrifice that Rahil makes, you know, for her job. I apologize to my husband. It's for the job. But I have said my name is Radha And my password is looking for love at 1-2-3 Oh my God! Okay. So the first thing that they ask you is tell us about yourself,

this particular app that I have downloaded. Name, email ID, date of birth and male or female. Even mine only has male or female. Yes. There's no other option. So better be a male or female. Otherwise, there's no place in this dating app world for you. Yeah.

Okay. Next, tell us about yourself. Education, profession, drinking, smoking, eating, interests. This is kind of like hinge, right? Yeah, kind of. And now your mind says it's all about presentation. So it's asking me to upload at least two photos. This Radha is quite a colourful personality, I must say.

She's a non-vegetarian, interested in animals, smokes occasionally, drink socially only. Profession haughty culture list. I don't know She can be whoever she wants to be Okay, of course Okay, now So after adding pictures

They're asking me for my height Okay Then it's asking me for my status Which is single Single with kids D divorced D divorced with kids Widowed

Withowed with kids Separated or separated with kids Then it's asking me my faith Okay All right Okay Your community. Now, this is the interesting part.

Hmm. I prefer not to say, Agarwal, Agri, Ahom, Arika Tika, Arora, Arunthatya, Aria, Aya Samaj, Vedia, Vesha. Wow. Okay. Okay. Baniya. So, these are all costs. And not something he would otherwise find on a dating app, right?

Exactly. Okay, so I'm also seeing some other options like there's Mara. Russian, there is Goan. What? Yeah. Okay. How does that, how do they decide what gets on the list? So, mostly caste, clearly, but there's also region and language.

Okay. That's interesting. So, we were wondering what kind of people are signing up on apps like ILE? If you see the entire AIL user experience, it's not even gone into having, say, additional. likes or super likes or additional engagement levers because we're saying, you know, if we, in fact, we had something which was like invites. It wasn't even a comment. It was about saying we understand the kind of people who are coming. They were late millennials at the time. And they're looking for something very serious. A lot of users we speak to, they have an urgency as to, okay, I really need to

find someone and settle now in the next one to two years. So there's a very clear goal when they're coming here. So we had a filter called, you know, settle down in one year, two years, three years. Yes. So those features actually were literally mirrored by what users needed. And in today's time, in fact, we don't have that filter. We've moved it to settle down only because now that there's a Gen Z, you know, cohort coming in, it's becoming the primary cohort, it's turning 27. It's a very different kind of target audience, right? Like user base? Absolutely. They're looking for, you know, they've started redefining what a meaningful connection or relationship means to them. And, you know, staying to tune to that and making sure that no matter who comes on the app,

at the end of it, they're looking for a like-minded person. They're looking for a connection that is going to last and they're looking for new experiences. How can we enable this for them? And the entire app has been designed just to make that happen for them. So it's interesting that you draw that comparison between Gen Z and Millennials, right? What does a meaningful connection look like for, say, a Gen Z as compared to you? to a millennial, what are the kind of variations there? I think what Gen Zies are really trying to say indirectly is they're not under any pressure

to really give a definition to the relationship they're building. They don't want to be attached to the outcome. This could go anywhere. And they're opening up that part of serendipity which had gone away with swipe rights and lefts. They're saying, you know, let the magic happen and we're here for that. And also millennials, you know, they're also moving towards independent, decision making, they say, you know what, I'm in a marriageable age. A lot of things in my life stage is very different. So I'm actually looking to settle down. I'm looking for someone who sort of

matches the kind of vision I have. But this person has to be suitable in my family. It has to be approved by my parents. And I want this to be a perfect fit. That's so interesting because like you said you position yourself something between a dating, something between dating and matrimonial. So, and then you. have these users, millennials and Gen Z's. So Gen Z is more focused towards the dating and the millennials are more focused towards marriage. I think it's a function of the life stage.

Exactly. You know, and there's no saying that, okay, once they reach the similar bracket, maybe they will start showing similar behaviors. But they have grown in the digital age, right? So they look at this is also if you see the hesitation with data. will be different amongst our cohorts and regions, of course. But, you know, we did a user, you said, one of the insights that came out, there's an undercurrent. Like, for a millennial, they grew up thinking about what romance is going to be, how they're going to find that person.

And this was not a part of their plan. So this was never plan A, right? And the Gen Zs actually grew up in an age where this is really normalized. So it's surprising for them if you, you know, this is only the urban people we spoke into. Of course, there might be biased in the respondents. but they would be surprised if you say, hey, do you find any hesitation or do you want to hide your profile

or go in incognito? They were like, but everyone is on it. You know, my peers are on it. So what? So what really struck me when Chani was pointing out the differences in how millennials and Gen Z approach dating apps, she said getting on a dating app

was never a part of the plan for a millennial and that really hit me hard because I'm a millennial too. But for Gen Z, they've grown up. up with it. It's normal for them. I don't think a lot of them feel the need to be secretive about it, like a lot of millennials do. And as more and more millennials face the pressure of settling down from society, peers, family, they suddenly hit with a realization that settling down with someone comes with a whole bunch of terms and conditions. And for an Indian millennial, the number one

condition is parental approval. So our NRI audience, the primary influencer is parents, right? Because they think that this is the place where they probably will find someone which is long-lasting. Then we spoke to users in the urban areas in India and to our surprise, one of their inner circles of influence is siblings.

Saying, you know what? You do want to look for just time pass and I understand you want to get married. Why don't you try aisle? Because this is where all of that noise is tuned out. And then you have, so you're right, you know, parents and siblings are becoming the new influencers, which we would have never imagined. And then you take a user's point of view and you ask them that do your parents know you're on this app, right?

And it's changing. By the way, a few years ago, in fact, five to six years ago, when people even got married through Aile, they would say we do not want to reveal that we met on Aile. So they will not give the love story, but they will say thank you so much. Yeah, on these dating apps, like other dating apps, apps also. So many people, it's like the go-to response. I don't know what the prompt is, but they'll be like, if our parents ever asked, we met at some other place basically, not a dating app. So cook up some story of meeting somewhere else. Yes. But that's changing now. Yes. That's

changing a lot and very quickly. And the scenario was changing so much that Ayle went ahead and launched a bunch of different region-specific apps. So they have Anbi for the Tamil community, Ariki for Malayalis, Nito for the... the Telugu community and so on. It's actually to the same tune of understanding India better, right? And this is our first step to do that, saying that there are specific communities which are very closely knitted.

They have their own dynamic in their own world going on. And if they were really to look for a life partner, it is more often than not within their own community. And how do we enable that? We spoke to users, the young India within this community, which they're making their own decisions when it comes to career. They've moved on to making their own decisions for academics. But when it comes to a life partner, they're now questioning why should we rely on our parents.

We want to be able to find our own person without really breaking the societal norms or the constraints that are there. And that's when the idea of this came up, you know, listening to our users really intently, that they are looking for this and they just want to do it the right way. And can we sort of give them a platform to do it? And every community, the deeper we went, the second part of the strategy was the deeper you go, you realize that every community also behaves very differently from each other. How closely are they connected to their community? Why are they looking for people within the same community? How are the parents responding to it?

And, you know, some communities are more progressive than the other. So, you know, over time, we've realized that the communities have decided what this app is going to mean for them. Rather than the other way around, you know, the brand person. perception has created the brand image. Have you found differences between user behavior on like the primary IEL app, the app that you know, the OGIL app and these regional multilingual apps like RRK and Anbi. Are there differences in the user behavior that you're seeing? I will always have an older demographic in general.

It'll have like your late 20s to mid 30s or even late 30s for that matter. And they're very, you speak to them. hate people who waste their time on the app. They said, you know, if people are not here for the correct intentions, why they hear? They will report them. So they're like, you know, they're safeguarding the app in that way. And correct intentions in this case would be long term, possibly marriage. That is what the correct.

Or at least the intention you've chosen when you started off. So we don't have casual as an option. Right. So it's long term, what are you looking for? All of that. So if people have selected that, you know, they want to see that that's at least. dream. And Ariki, on the other hand, you'll see a younger audience coming in.

It's more vibrant. They're taking it up. And there are two cohorts at play. There are late 20s and they're in mid-20s. And the average is still a 30-year-old. And the NRI has picked up in a very big way for Riki. Because now, suddenly, it's easier to meet your own kind across borders, across... Yeah.

Otherwise, it was your... You know, like Sima Auntie. What is Sima Auntie for? You know? Why did she exist, right? Yeah. Chani, I had a question related to the community option on dating apps when users get the option to pick people from their own specific communities in a country like India, right?

Isn't that a little bit like enabling the existing social divisions which we've been trying to fight forever? Because, you know, as a society, we want to progress, right? And in an ideal world, it shouldn't matter, no? The way we think about it is very similar. And that's why we've sort of kept it more in preferences and not in our default. Like, especially when it comes to faith, etc. We don't try to match that as a default. We keep it open as preferences.

And we give the choice in the control in the hand of the user. Saying that, and the good part is we're hoping that this trend changes. We see that people are now going for open to all versus within their own bubble itself. Okay, so Chani, this is a bit of a side step from our conversation so far. But we've been curious about your business model. Can you tell us a little bit about it and how does it really compare to, say, Hinge or Tinder? Let me talk about these apps based their business models, right? So if you look at it on our X, Y axis and where, you know,

in the X axis is just the engagement and Y axis is based on your intention. On the extreme left, you'll have your casualating apps because these are the people who are, high on engagement and they are following a user model, which is business model is, you know, based on engagement. You get more users, you get more engagement, then you monetize it, right? versus a matrimonial business would probably be a revenue model. You know, they start with saying, you know, you take this package and then we will help you and handle you through this and that's you're paying to the start with. They're two very different models. When Isle sitting in between, the question becomes, are you trying to compete with the user model or are you trying to compete with

the revenue model. And the good part is if you do this right, you can get the best of both, right? Because you get users who are at the right stage with the right intention and they're going to pay when it really means something to them. And when they do pay and when it is a success, I think it's a long-term game. You should rely on the word of mouth. You should rely on the success when a lot of people finally find their match, it's going to sort of spread the word that, okay, when I need to look for love and I need to look for something meaningful, this is where I'm going to go. Hi, I'm Aksha Chandrashikrin. Earlier this year, I wrote a newsletter on B-school placements in India.

Some of you might have heard of it. It was called Day Zero. It was one of the most challenging placement season in years. Well, things haven't gotten any better since. The news is still clogged with reports about the job crisis at top IITs. We are still talking fewer jobs and lower salaries. Landing a job is hard and keeping it harder. To be thrust into the world of work at a time like this, without a moat or a map, cannot be a pleasant experience.

Every step you take right now matters. While we all know that great careers are built over decades, the first two years will set the stage for it. That's what I've been up to for the past few months. I made a podcast. to help you navigate through this huge transition. If you're just starting out and having a lot of imposter syndrome, if you don't know how to ask for help,

get the right kind of mentoring, then you must listen to my latest podcast, the first two years. You will hear stories that cannot be summed up in a LinkedIn post. You will hear valuable lessons to get a head start in your career and so much more. Click on the link in the show notes or simply just type in the first two years, wherever you get your podcasts. And now, back to Snigda and Rahil. Rahil, why don't you check your phone?

What about that app that you downloaded? Named after an animal sound. It's not giving anything away. Oh, wow. Okay, Snigda, I have 344 notifications on the app. Okay, I have 30 plus likes, 30 plus messages. And like, it says 30 plus. Plus, I'm assuming that's like the limit that they have to display.

But there are, it's like, it's crazy. Did you say 300 and something? Yes. Notifications. And this is for a profile where, I mean, there isn't even a real photo. I've, I literally use the first two photos on my gallery. So it's like a photo of the Bangalore skyline and like a random photo of food or something. Like something I'd eaten.

This was just a few hours ago. It is crazy. Yeah. It's been like an hour and a half, two hours. Can you check who are these people? I'm so curious. Please, please. Tell us. Okay.

Messages. Oh, wow. There's like literally just new ones coming in. Like every couple. It is crazy. Okay, so there's 63-year-old men, 29-year-old men, 30-year-old men. Hi, hi, Radha, myself, Santosh. Like to know more about you.

Hi, how are you? Hi, hi. Someone who straight up gave me their phone number. Oh, what? This is crazy. Hi, hello, good evening. I'd like to chat and date. Wow.

This is just with a skyline photo. Literally just a skyline photo. What does this say about men? Oh my God. So we found someone for whom date-rimonial apps that allow the user to find a partner from a particular community makes perfect sense. Well, in theory at least. She is a 28-year-old Gurgao-based marketing professional. She doesn't want to be named.

So we are just going to be named. going to call her Tanya. Also, a quick disclaimer, there was some construction going on near her home when we recorded this conversation with her. So, apologies in advance. So I won't say it's impossible to find a life partner. It is definitely possible. It's tough. We all know that. We all have had our experiences. But in terms of practical issues, I think, some of the biggest ones are talking about caste, community, language preferences, education and social economic background. So these are some things that you don't immediately get to know about a person right off the bat when you match with them on a dating app. But eventually, once you start dating, if you are

getting along, then you get to know. And as open as our parents are to meeting, us meeting new people and maybe marrying outside our castor community, there's still some sort of stigma about which community you marry into. So I think that you want to meet people from similar socioeconomic backgrounds, similar kind of education because that filter doesn't sound very bad. Like you're saying, okay, I want to meet someone else educated as me. But at the same time, somewhere deep down in your mind, you're hoping that they're going to come from a similar cast of community as you because they've had similar education. And is that also coming from a place of, you know, like, again, you did mention, you know,

there is a certain amount of parental pressure, parental, you know, that perception does color your choice of who you're picking, right? So would it be fair to say that when you're swiping, like you're right swiping or left swiping someone on a dating app, at some subliminal level, is that something that you're thinking, you know, is, will my parents approve? of this match? Will my family approval society approve of this match? Is that something that occurs to you at all when you're on the

Yeah, definitely. I mean, you always think about is this person going to get along with my friend's circle? Is this a person someone my parents would approve of? You don't want to have to put up a fight. It's already tough to find a partner on a dating app. You're going through so many struggles

and even after that if you have to fight your family to be with this person, I don't know if that's something people are willing to do. So as much as possible, I definitely feel you're looking for someone who your family, friends, everyone would have proved off. Right. And then once you actually match with these people, Tanya, can you give me a sense of, you know, if these are conversations that you actively have with the people that you're meeting through dating apps, you know,

does cast and community come up at all when you go on dates with them? You know, is that a conversation that happens often? I wouldn't say it happens often. I think people try to be. as discreet about it as possible. So they won't have very open conversations. But a lot of times when relationships or that dating phase is ending, I've seen these come up and be the reasons for those scenarios ending, right?

So people try to gauge it very discreetly. They'll try to like go out with the person, talk about the family, things like that, and then try to see if they come from similar backgrounds. I don't think it's a very open discussion that people are, or people from more liberal backgrounds are having these days, especially when they're meeting someone through a dating app. So basically it does kind of all add up, right? I mean for someone like Tanya to use a datrimony lab.

Because think about what she just told us. Getting approval from her parents is very important for her, which means that she cares about what community her potential partner belongs to. But the constraint that she faces in a liberal society is the reluctance to openly admit this. She has to go on multiple dates and spend time with someone to get this information. She can't ask it openly on her first date. So for her, an app that saves her from all of this trouble just by giving her the option to choose from a particular community makes sense. But on the flip side, the problem with dating apps where you choose a partner based on any

sort of community is that in a way, you may end up stigmatizing other sorts of relationship. Wherece someone chooses a partner who doesn't belong to their own community, which happens all the time in a country like us. To be politically correct and all, I can say that to each his own and all of that. But I think we have to be cautious, you know, this kind of, in the long term, can have negative repercussions. At least that's what I believe in. And I'm speaking as somebody who has seen intercast conflict in my own household, you know,

because my mother is from a different caste and my dad's from a different caste. That is Prashansa Gurung, a 36-year-old startup founder and filmmaker from Darjeeling, West Bengal, which, by the way, also happens to be my hometown. We spoke to her about her experience of using dating apps in a small town like Darjeeling, where everybody knows everybody. And the idea of community holds great importance. And Prashansa has been on these apps for the last 10 years or so. Like you're a veteran.

dating app user. So, you know, now, of course, your perspective has changed, you know, early 20s, like you said, is a different time, right? But now, now when you get onto a dating app, what would you say your expectation is, like the end goal?

What is your end goal? My expectation with a dating app is just hook up, okay? Because I don't see dating apps as a viable option to meet somebody you will want to spend your life with. Having said that, that situation applies only to me, I guess, because I have met people who have met on Tinder and are dating and are in a fulfilling long-term relationships. But for me, it has always been a time pass. So, would you ever want a life partner? Is that something like if, like I said, right,

if an ideal dating app existed, would it be nice if you could find a, life partner there? Yeah, definitely, you know, especially, I think as a queer person living in Darjeeling, it is very difficult to meet other women face to face. Yeah, it's like looking for a needle in a haystack when we try to meet people face to face. You know, there's a lot. Since Darjeeling still is a bit conservative when it comes to this, you know, queer relationships at least, I think it would

Yeah like if I had If the current dating apps were I don't know Better than what they are It would help me find somebody But right now it is not looking like that Okay Completely different side of this Parental Approval

Okay you said it's You came out to them But after that whether they accept it They approve it is not your You're not taking the that upon yourself. But tell me, like, you know, as people who come from small towns, who live outside, you know, the way we look for people who speak the same language, the way that makes us feel,

right? Yes. So, so how important is community when it comes to dating? You know, basically all the, all the lovers that I've had, all my, like, you know, lovers that I've had till now have all been non-Nipalis. I have yet to date a person from my own community. But having said that, right, the last relationship that I had, which was a long-term relationship, he was from a different community.

And I think it made a difference in, you know, our basic outlook of life, besides the food, you know, besides the food, I would be sad if I don't get to have a for the rest of my life. Or if my spouse didn't know how to cook. Yeah, how to cook. I mean, like, for example, like with my last partner, right, like in their culture, the pot wasn't too big. You know, so whenever we made food at home,

so I used to make something for him and I used to make pork for myself, but he used to scrunch up his nose and, you know, pass some, like, comments, you know, like, how can he eat that, that sort of a thing. So again, like, but I think that's a thing. is an individual thing, you know. But if you find a person who's going to the extent of, say, learning your language, right, like learning to cook for you, you know, or watching movies in your language or listening to songs of your language, I think true love, at least I want to believe that.

I am a hopeful romantic after all. I think, you know, when the right person comes along, such barriers will not matter, I think. That's what I want to believe in. And that is also what we want to believe in. On that note, that's a wrap. Also, huge thanks to our main man, Rajiv C-N, our sound engineer, who we pester nag and annoy on a daily basis. This episode would not have been possible without his patience and hard work.

We love you, Rajiv. Also, do tell us what you thought of this episode on podcast at the ken.com. That is t-h-e-k-e-k-en.com. or if you're listening to us on Spotify, you can also drop a comment right there. And if you like this episode, do not forget to like, share and subscribe. Catch you next week with another daybreak special.