Daybreak - What is fuelling the growing band of de-influencers in India?

Episode Date: October 13, 2023

Beets are a superfood today. Tomorrow it’ll be lemons. The internet is rife with misinformation especially about food and health related stuff. There are hundreds of influencers on your feed telling you what’s good for you.But who’s telling you what’s bad and what doesn’t work?  Maybe a keto diet worked for your friend but not for you. Take Dr Cyriac Abby Philips who goes by The Liver Doc on X or Twitter. Recently, he claimed there is no point in taking multivitamins.He is a de-influencer and there are many like him who work towards breaking down myths. Often they’re faced with legal action and threats, yet most of them continue their work.But what is really fuelling de-influencers?Tune in.RecommendationThe wild finfluencer party is finally coming to an endDaybreak is produced from the newsroom of The Ken, India's first subscriber-only business news platform. Subscribe for more exclusive, deeply-reported, and analytical business stories

Hi, this is Rohan Dharma Kumar. If you've heard any of the Ken's podcasts, you've probably heard me, my interruptions, my analogies, and my contrarian takes on most topics. And you might rightly be wondering why am I interrupting this episode too. It's for a special announcement. For the last few months, I and Sita Raman Ganeshan, my colleague and the Ken's deputy editor, have been working on an ambitious new podcast. It's called Intermission.

We want to tell the secret sauce stories of India's greatest companies. Stories of how they were born, how they fought to survive, how they build their organizations and culture, how they manage to innovate and thrive over decades, and most importantly, how they're poised today. To do that, Sita and I have been reading books, poring over reports, going through financial statements, digging up archives, and talking to dozens of people. And if that wasn't enough, we also decided to throw in video into the mix. Yes, you heard that right. Intermission has also had to find its footing in the world of multi-camera shoots in professional studios, laborious editing, and extensive post-production. Sita and I are still reeling from the intensity of our first studio recording.

Intermission launches on March 23rd. To get alert, as soon as we release our first video. episode, please follow intermission on Spotify and Apple Podcast or subscribe to the Ken's YouTube channel. You can find all of the links at the ken.com slash I am. With that, back to your episode. Two days ago, the Karnataka High Court passed an order that allowed the restoration of Dr. Syriac Abbey Phillips's X or Twitter account. And why am I telling you this? Because Dr. Phillips is better known as the liver doctor on social media. You must have heard of him.

He is a health and wellness influencer. Or should I say the influencer? For example, this particular case is related to him making allegedly defamatory claims about Himalaya Wellness, the pharmaceutical company. The court said that he could access his ex-account only on the condition that he would hide the supposedly defamatory allegations against Himalia. The case is still pending on the matter. Basically, what had happened was in 2019, the liver doctor posted content where he had questioned the efficacy of Himalia's famous Liv 52 tablets for the treatment of serious liver diseases.

Himalia had responded by saying that the claim was defamatory and that the liver doctor was seeing all this to promote its rival companies like Zipla. Now, if you know anything about the liver doctor, you know that he is famous for busting myths about home remedies and alternate medicines like Ayurveda. He tells people things like eating multivitamins is useless. He is what we call a de-influencer and there is a growing bunch of those like him. They are influencers but instead of

pushing you to buy a product, they break down the attraction that you feel towards them. So I thought today, especially because I'm traveling back to Bangalore from my hometown in Doweling, I would take you back to revisit this episode of Daybreak on what is really fueling these de-influencers. Stay tuned. Bread. Bread. Bread is a big scam. White bread, brown bread, multi-grained bread, whole wheat bread. What's the difference in which one is the best? There are the four facts that every Indian should know about bread.

That's filled with mehda which lacks fibre since the germ and brand layers of wheat are removed during refinement. Brown breads in India are also not healthy. They are brown. That was Ravant Himat Singa who goes by food farmer on Instagram, farmer with a pH. And he puts his content under the category of nutrition comedy. And he calls himself a health coach. Like every influence on Instagram, he's got the works. Lights, background, captions.

But there is one basic thing that sets him apart from your regular influencers. Himadzinka is actually what they call a de-influencer these days. These are basically influencers who make you reassess your choices. And it is mainly in the area of food and health. Himad Sinka, for example, has over 550,000 followers on Instagram, a decent number. He also has 41,000 on the micro-blogging site, X, which we knew as Twitter. It still feels a little weird to say X. Anyway, he also has 24,000 following him on the professor.

National networking platform LinkedIn. Now, before you go, but why are we talking about de-influencers on daybreak today? The thing is, we all know this, that the internet is rife with misinformation, especially about food-related stuff. There are hundreds of influencers on your feet telling you what is good for you. This is a superfood today, tomorrow it's going to be something else. But who is telling you what is bad and what doesn't really work? Like that keto diet may be working for some people, but not for everyone.

You might have heard of the liver doctor on Twitter or X. His name is Dr. Syriac Abby Phillips and recently he claimed that there is no point in taking a multivitamin. People like the liver dog and Himat Senga belong to this upcoming band of D influencers. They are the ones who break down the attraction that you feel towards these products and, well, they make you think twice before using that credit card of yours. But hey, fighting misinformation is almost a Sisyphian task on the internet these days. There's just so much coming in from all directions. Also, I know that you've thought about this by now.

What is fueling these de-influencers? Is it really just pure selflessness? Or are they being paid to pop the bubble of our consumerist dreams? Because think about it. If you're ready to name and shame a brand, you also have to be ready for a legal battle. and that is definitely expensive. You remember the Bon Vita controversy, right? A few months ago in a video, this guy on the internet accused Bon Vita,

which we know as a help drink of having too much sugar. That guy was Himat Singer, and soon he was served a legal notice after which he deleted the Bon Vita video. Welcome to Daybreak, a business podcast from the Ken. I'm your host, Nick Das Sharma, and I Don't Chase the News Cycle. Instead, thrice a week on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays, I will come to you with one business story that is worth understanding and worth your time. Today is Friday the 13th of October.

Try being critical of a product online as an influencer. In no time, you will have a bunch of other influencers queuing up to discredit your discrediting. And with research, one can really go all the way. But it is still a huge price to pay, right? So could it be that these de-influencers are just, just milking in on fear. You may know the Masala Lab, also an Instagram handle, that debunks food myths. His real name is Chris Ashok and he spoke to the Ken reporter Shivani Varma.

And he gave us a great example. He said, you won't get 80 followers if you say that the microwave is perfectly safe to use. But if you say that the microwave will give you cancer, you will get hundreds and thousands of followers right away. Apart from Himit Senga and Masala Lab, some popular de-influencers include nutrition specialist Umesh Vadwani, Nutritionist Amita Gadre, science communicator Pranav Radha Krishnan, a medical doctor, Tanaya Narendra and fitness coach Chirag Barjadya. Quite a few of these de-influencers are subject experts and their content is based on

their primary line of work. Others like Radar Krishnan and Himat-Singa switched their career. to follow their interest or spread awareness. They consider challenges like legal action and threats just a part of the job. Phillips, by the way, who goes by liver doctor, has received a bunch of legal notices too. One came from the pharma major Himalaya Wellness over its formulation of Live 52. And threats and retaliations from all sides were regular stuff for him. Another example is Narendra, who is a doctor at Prajag Raj's Abhilaasha Hospital and Furiffic.

fertility center. He's also faced similar problems. In fact, most of the de-influencers that the Ken spoke to told us that it is worth all the trouble. And even though they may come from all kinds of backgrounds, they want to spread awareness and debunk misinformation. But is this all that is driving their content as de-influencers? Really? Stay tuned to find out. In his six-year career, Phillips, who also goes by the liver doctor, has received received 15 legal notices, including four from the Indian government's Ayush ministry, and two each from Wellness Farm Herbalife Nutrition India and Himalaya. Then there was an FIR from a local private Ayurveda company. Except for Himalaya, all these legal notices that he's received were on

research work and their pertinent science communication with the public. So far, Phillips has spent over three lakh rupees in legal proceedings. But his troubles did. not end there. Even at his workplace, he received offensive physical letters containing explicit content and he also had to endure situations of racist and religious slurs. Members of the partner lab where he used to conduct research analysis were also verbally harassed by homeopathy supporters who disliked what he was saying. Himad Senga, who has also faced similar criticism, told again that he was mainly against false marketing and nowhere in his very much. did he say that one should not eat bread.

He told us that it was made to educate consumers that if you are eating bread, you should know what you are eating. He also told us that there are doctors who support him. He thinks that people with a good following will always find a few others who will critique their content just to gain followers. But nutritionists and doctors that the Ken spoke to said that such content often lacks scientific evidence. They say that it becomes counterproductive for

doctors and nutritionists who genuinely want to fight misinformation. Chris Ashok of the Masala Lab fame told us that it is a vicious cycle where people are being under-informed continuously and that Meta or X or Twitter or YouTube cannot stop this misinformation. The thing is, all of this is still not deterring those like Phillips and Narendra, who goes by Dr. Couturis on Instagram. In fact, they are actively engaging in collaboration. The question is, what is driving them? Coming up next, could it be monetization? Let's take Narendra, for example.

She wants to make sex education a part of the national education curriculum. She wants to make the HPV vaccine a part of the national immunization protocol and she also wants to be able to create a space for a college degree in sexual medicine. She has a team of four people. As a medical doctor, she spends three days working at the hospital and the rest working on her content for social media. She also monetizes it and does paid partnerships, works on the Dr. Coutris podcast, and she also creates content as an advisor for the government and non-governmental bodies

for which she gets paid again. Narenda told the Ken that information regarding her payments for social media content is confidential due to the contracts. Meanwhile, Rada Krishnan, who worked with the ed tech firm Bayju's for six years before he became a full-time content creator, gets revenue from YouTube, sponsorships and donations from his supporters. But he did not share how much money exactly he makes from all of this. Barjadya and Himattsinger, on the other hand, claimed that they do not monetize their content. And Phillips says that he is a lone wolf.

He told us that he wants to educate people and all his efforts are in public interest. The analysis work, which he had been funding along with other doctors, came to a stop earlier this month because of lack of funds. Now, we try to get the other side of the story from Karthik Shrinivasan, who is a communications consultant. He says that monetizing openly by associating with brands is only one of the many ways of making money. There could be many others, including platform-based incentives from YouTube and now X, where

Elon Musk is paying creators. He explained with the example of Himadzenga, saying that for someone like him who offers health advice allegedly without adequate scientific or medical basis, he has huge gains. And it is in the form of a massive number of views and likes because he seems to be going against the trend of praising brands or pitching them. Nutritionist Amita Gardreitra told again that there has been a rise in de-influencing around the food and medical industries because fear cells. The issue that is of concern with the influencers, however, is that they are

just filling that gap. Because very often those who are promising to debunk misinformation for you are actually presenting you with a fresh layer of misinformation. And as for the FMCG companies that are often the target of these de-influencers, like for example Bon Vita, they've mostly been ignoring these videos or straightforward denying and threatening legal action. But at the same time, we cannot deny that they are using the points that are being used by these de-influencers to update their own brand stories or their narratives. Daybreak is produced from the newsroom of the Ken, India's first subscriber-focused business news platform. What you're listening to is just a small sample of our subscriber-only offerings.

A full subscription unlocks daily long-form feature stories, newsletters, subscriber-only apps, and podcast extras. Head to the Ken.com and click on the red subscribe button on the top of the website. I'm Snick Dhar Shah-My, your host, and today's episode was edited by my colleague Rajiv Sien.