Daybreak - When India’s billionaires fight over legacy, who do they call?

Episode Date: August 31, 2025

From the very public Ambani family feud to the private struggles of the Raymond family, the transfer of wealth and power has often been messy. With over 850,000 millionaires in India, and many of them looking to transition their wealth in the next decade, there's a growing, yet largely unaddressed market for a specific type of expert: the succession coach.Part mediator, part therapist, part strategist—they do more than just advise. They keep dynasties from tearing themselves apart.Tune in.Daybreak is produced from the newsroom of The Ken, India’s first subscriber-only business news platform. Subscribe for more exclusive, deeply-reported, and analytical business stories.

Hi, this is Rohan Dharma Kumar. If you've heard any of the Ken's podcasts, you've probably heard me, my interruptions, my analogies, and my contrarian takes on most topics. And you might rightly be wondering why am I interrupting this episode too. It's for a special announcement. For the last few months, I and Sita Ramon Ganeshan, my colleague and the Ken's deputy editor, have been working on an ambitious new podcast. It's called Intermission.

We want to tell the secret sauce stories of India's greatest companies. Stories of how they were born, how they fought to survive, how they build their organizations and culture, how they manage to innovate and thrive over decades, and most importantly, how they're poised today. To do that, Sita and I have been reading books, poring over reports, going through financial statements, digging up archives, and talking to dozens of people. And if that wasn't enough, we also decided to throw in video into the mix. Yes, you heard that right. Intermission has also had to find its footing in the world of multi-camera shoots in professional studios, laborious editing, and extensive post-production.

Sita and I are still reeling from the intensity of our first studio recording. Intermission launches on March 23rd. To get alert, as soon as we release our first video. episode, please follow intermission on Spotify and Apple Podcast or subscribe to the Ken's YouTube channel. You can find all of the links at the ken.com slash I am. With that, back to your episode. Hi, I'm Rohan Dharma Kumar, the host of first principles and the co-host of the two-by-two podcast. Hi, I'm Rahil, the host of 90,000 hours, the Ken's newest podcast about the future of careers and workplaces. And I am Snigdash.

Sharma, the host and producer of Daybreak, our daily business news podcast. I'm Praveen Gopal Krishna. I'm also the co-host of 2x2 and the host of the best podcast of the Ken. It's called The Nut Graf. I'm also the ghost of Sita Ramanji, who's the producer and host of Make India Competitive Again. That's the other premium podcast that we've missed. And Brady. And Brady.

So we have a lot of podcasts. So that's six podcasts. each of which covers a completely different topic and offers unprecedented insight, if I may say so myself. No, but actually that's true. First principles is about leadership, 90,000 hours. Of course it's true.

What do you mean? But it's true. No, no, no. I just realize now that we sat together. 90,000 hours is about careers. Daybreak is about news and what's happening. The Nuttgraph is about connections and two by two is our business strategy.

PGK, just a question. Did you think that when we come up with new podcasts at the Ken, we don't think if they over. If they overlap with each other or not. No, I just realized now that this is all together. It's nice. But yes, but why are we here? We are here because we're here to make a very special announcement.

Up until now, a lot of people assumed that the only way to access our very many podcasts was by having an annual subscription. We're here to tell you that's not the case anymore. And not an annual subscription to the Ken. You can actually access it by subscribing to the Ken on Apple Podcasts for a monthly plan. So you could actually try us out by signing up for a monthly subscription, check out all our premium podcasts, and if at the end of the month you don't feel you liked it enough,

you can unsubscribe. But I tell you, I challenge you, you're unlikely to do that. Because we put out a pretty solid podcast. All the details will be in the show notes of this episode. Do you remember what happened when Diroabai Ambani passed away without a will? the chaos and mess of the feud between his son's Moukesh and Analambani covered many a front page. Then there was a rather sad turn of events that went down with the Raymond family. Vijaypat Singhhania, the founder, later went on to say that parents everywhere should avoid transferring all their savings to their children within their lifetime.

Of course, what I just told you is a rather sanitized summary of two very tumultuous incidents. Right now, India has over 850,000 millionaires. Out of these, about 13,000 have assets over $30 million. And at least half of them are looking to transition their business and wealth in the next 5 to 10 years, all in order to build a legacy for future generations. Now, with this comes an increasing demand for experienced consultants. These are professionals whose only job is to smoothen this whole process and avoid a real-life recreation of HBO's succession.

Meet Arun Daya Niti for example. He is the founder of Dhrona Consulting, a family business advisory and one of the only 20 full-time succession coaches in India. His job description basically involves putting out fires for families worth millions as they go through leadership transitions. Let me tell you about. this case from Tamil Nadu, for instance. Six siblings were caught in quite a bind

when their 55-year-old patriarch and founder of a $41 million business refused to give over the reins. Not because his children weren't ready, because, well, he wasn't. And so they looped in Dayaniti. He presented them with a compromise. Or a loophole, depending on how you see it. A new entity was created and the non-retiring founder

was made the head. Meanwhile, the siblings took over as directors. They even created a family trust where each member would receive the option to liquidate their shares during an IPO. Also now, they're required to retire when they turn 60. Of course, this is not a one-off. Welcome to the world of crazy rich Indians. Welcome to Daybreak, a business news podcast from the Ken. I'm your new host, Rachel Burghies, and every day of the week, Snigda and I will bring you one new story

that is worth understanding and worth your time. Today is Monday, the 1st of September. Very few people hand over the reins of their business empires gracefully. So when coaches like Dayaniti come on board, they're expected to deliver creative manoeuvring, like in the story I just told you, all without ruffling feathers and also avoiding lawsuits. Prashan Joshi, co-founder and partner at Upwisari,

a Hyderabad-based financial advisory firm, told us that it's not as easy as dividing assets equally among the next generation. It's also about allocating them a share of what they each deserve and are worthy of. And as you can imagine, this can get messy and quite chaotic. So this is when the coaches step in. The thing is, succession planning and coaching is quickly developing into a position that involves not just consulting. It includes sustain therapy, professional grooming, mediation and long-term strategy.

Although the process begins with the creation of a family tree with the patriarch or matriac on top, it's not just enough to speak to the head honcho and set up a plan that's amicable to them. When they say succession is a family business, it really is. Every generation has to be involved. Everyone needs to be open to dialogue

and everyone has to agree to the plan. Sometimes it takes months just to get people talking. We spoke to Sunit Mehra, partner and family business consultant at Hunt Partners. And he told us that generally first meetings between the first and second generations and the planners are held offside. Guess why? Because there's a high chance that somebody will storm off. Coaches are even tasked with cajoling them to return because until everybody's at the table, there's no possibility of discussion. And sometimes people even want to avoid.

talking about personal wealth altogether. However, a lot of it becomes easier if there is a well-wisher of the family, with some experience to help deal with the situation. Think the Ambani brothers split mediated by the prominent banker KV Kamath. But families cannot sustain if the patriarch insists on holding control for a long period. Like Somal Shah, managing partner at Clarych advisory put it, If you don't hand over the control, then what's the motivation for the next generation to take over? Clareich, by the way, is a Mumbai-based company that helps families with regulatory and family office-related procedures.

Now, dealing with one family succession plan in itself can take anywhere between six months to three years. Most planners don't engage with more than four families in a year. The problem, though, with this whole affair, is that there are not enough succession process. planners to meet the demands of the rising number of H&Is in the country. According to Dayaniti, the country needs at least 1,000 succession coaches. But we hardly have 20 full-time coaches currently. At least six succession coaches the Ken spoke to believe India rarely has families whose businesses survive beyond the fourth generation.

That's because the families don't bring in external management and remain too involved in the business themselves. As Mehra says, we need to build more companies in India that grow into the sixth generation. He says the reason we see so many European companies that are massive and worth multi-billion dollars is because they have been around for several decades. And more importantly, the family has moved out of running the company by the fourth generation. More on this in the next segment. You see, the belief about legacy companies at the moment is this.

The first generation builds it, the second generation preserves it, and the third destroys it. So to avoid the stern of events, Indian families are slowly becoming more open to the idea, the process, and the structure of succession planning. In fact, a lot of families today have set up talent committees, which is basically a panel of experts, family business advisors and succession coaches. And their job is to provide the necessary focus and attention to groom, the next generation into successful leaders. Venkatesh Kalyana Sundaram, partner at IIFL Wealth, a wealth management company,

told us that the days when you would bring in your kids and straightaway make them directors are long gone. The next generation doesn't seem to be all that interested in getting their hands dirty running their business. Instead, they are now leaning more towards setting up family offices and managing their wealth. Even Uday Kotak, founder of Kotak Mahindra Bank, recently made a dig at this shift in family businesses. He said, young business heirs are taking the easy way instead of creating real world business. Now, Kotak himself stepped down from the role of managing director and chief executive officer at India's fourth largest bank.

He placed his son Jay in charge of the bank's digital vertical. And he made Ashok Vaswani a banker with more than four decades of experience, his successor in early 2024. This means that now coaches like Dayaniti are being able to convince families to bring in professionals. These professionals can then run the companies and reduce the operational work for the successors. Now, technically speaking, it is a family decision at the end. But the reality is that these planners wield tremendous power. Yash Podar, a third-generation successor and chief investing officer at his seat,

family business told us that the coaches have a lot of responsibility to ensure there's no personal agendas in the mix. This person can make or break a succession plan. And with all the chatter around the reintroduction of inheritance tax in India, succession planning may be a prudent way to get ahead of the game. According to Podar, the entire wealth of the family would be susceptible to a singularly high level of taxation if they don't do this. So yes, For India's Uber rich, succession planning is all about legacy and ensured continuity. But right now, it's less about parting notes and more about protective measures. Daybreak is produced from the newsroom of the Ken India's first subscriber-focused business news platform.

What you're listening to is just a small sample of our subscriber-only offerings. A full subscription offers daily long-form feature stories, newsletters and a whole bunch of premium podcasts. To subscribe, head to the Ken.com. and click on the red subscribe button on the top of the Ken website. Today's episode was hosted and produced by my colleague Rachel Vargis and edited by Rajiv Sien.