De-Influenced with Dani + Jordan - De-Influencing MomTok & Mormonism: Taylor Frankie Paul, Mikayla Matthews and Mayci Neely

Episode Date: September 26, 2024

Happy THURSDAY! You guys are going to LOVE the first guests of our re-branded era -- ones that have been HIGHLY requested. We are so excited to have traveled all the way to Salt Lake City to De-Influence three of the stars from Hulu’s new hit show, Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. Today, we're diving deep with Mayci Neely, Taylor Frankie Paul, and Mikayla Matthews to discuss MomTok, Mormonism, and their personal journeys. These women have taken TikTok and TV by storm, but now we get to know them on a much more personal level. Let us tell you—these are some incredibly strong women with powerful, challenging stories.As Christians, we also wanted to explore Mormonism in more depth. It's a conversation you've all been asking for, and trust us, you don't want to miss it! Make sure you’re following our girls and their businesses which are listed below: Mayci Neely: Instagram | TikTok BabyMama: Instagram Taylor Frankie Paul: Instagram | TikTok Mikayla Matthews: Instagram | TikTok Make sure you’re subscribed to our official channel on YouTube, @deinfluencedpodcast, and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your De-Influenced fix! Stay connected with us on Instagram and TikTok @deinfluencedpodcast, and thank you for being a part of this journey. Finally, Thank you all for entering our giveaway with such great topic and episode ideas! Our giveaway winners have been selected and reached out to! We will post them on our De-Influenced Instagram account as well! We love you all!

The following podcast is a dear media production. Hello, and welcome back to your favorite podcast. De-influenced. Y'all are going to freak at this episode. Like, I cannot believe that we're here. Jordan and I are in Salt Lake City with Macy and Michaela and Taylor from the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. I show that Jordan and I binge watched together. Oh, we can.

And we don't usually watch shows together. And Jordan was even entertained. I was invested. He was in good. I'm always shocked with the guys. Yeah, it's good. Even the guy who owned the studio, he was like, oh, yeah, I watched it this weekend. Oh, my God.

That's amazing. The older men, always shocked him more. Yeah. They're like old. And he bugged her show him. He's like, really? Because it's not swingers. So it's, like, that's what you know.

It's good, though, whatever guys are watching it. That's true. My husband was invested. Like, he stayed up. I think it came out at 10 and he stayed up till 4 a.m. watching it. And, like, he's not very invested in, like, TikToks and the stuff I do. But he was, like, invested in his whole 4-U pages. Just secret.

Life's a secret life. I haven't fell asleep. I was like, I'll watch it together. I'll look where he's sleeping. I'm like, oh, he's just as the father here as he was in Vegas. So I mean, or when I was in Vegas. Is the reception the same in Utah versus out of Utah, you think? No.

No. Honestly, I feel like we haven't gotten that much hate in Utah. I feel like we got more hate when the name was announced and then the trailer came out. But I feel like I haven't seen the same amount of hate since the show has come out. Yeah. But how can you? That's good. I mean, I feel like the show wasn't anything but they thought.

Yeah. Exactly. No, it was really good and lighthearted. Yeah, so everyone's kind of like backtracking. They're like, certain. But it's kind of like good marketing not only for the city, but like, like, for LDS for everything, because like everybody's talking about it now, right? And they don't want to come to Utah and not swag and do all the things, get the hair.

Yeah, I want the hair and I want the swig. Jordan's like, I want the swag and the hair too. I do have a question to start though. And this is like probably me being off TikTok and outside of mom talk. So a lot of the times on the show, it's referenced like, this isn't what mom talk was about, or this wasn't the original reason of mom talk. So, like, my question is, like, what was Mom Talk when it first started and what has it evolved into? Because it's almost like not just a hashtag. It's like a symbol for something.

But I want to know from you guys, like, what it's a symbol for? It was more like they have no correlation with like my situation and Mom Talk where there was a crossover is that there was. was someone in mom talk that was in my swinging group, if you will. So when I said that, it made this huge mess. And it combined the two, even though really they did correlate besides me and one other girl, right? Okay. So let's take your swinging situation out. Like, what was the original mom talk about? Oh, then just getting together making videos and getting ready and cute and matching. It was just not something you saw every day. Yeah. And we all had our own brands. Like we all had a falling going into it. And it was like, oh, there's other moms who were making

content and we've taught to you close by. Like, why not get together, collaborate, get more eyes, get more followers, you know, expand the business and, like, try to help each other too. Yeah. So it was honestly just for fun. Well, but also business, kind of the grand scheme of things. Right. Yeah. It was more fun of, but it was more of like a community.

It wasn't necessarily, like, connected to, like, the church or anything like that. It was literally just a community of boss. Was it Mormon wives or just, like, mom? I would say more. Some of them were. Majority were Mormon. But just because, like, just because they all have mom in the roots. Like, everyone's going to have Mormon roots usually if they are from you.

talk, they're going to have a, you know, their grandfather. Someone who is Mormon, maybe they're not active anymore, but everyone's going to have Mormon roots. I feel like, typically in Utah. But I feel like 95% women. Yeah. And our videos weren't about like being Mormon. Yeah. She would do some interesting videos though. She knows how to work beyond. And people were like, tell us what you're putting over the video too. And I was like, no, then don't get in my video. Yeah, there was a video she did. This is when I was talking about where I was like, kind of embarrassed because she didn't tell us the

caption. And it was like that sound where it's like, I'm going to run. I want to run. Yeah, kind of sexual. And she put like when he holds the priesthood, which is like, I think... That was really bad. I would have, like, my old boss and it's to me like my uncle, like, is it cute in this video? I was like, oh. Yeah, I got in trouble for that one.

But you know, I got told them. I was like, if you have... You're uncomfortable, then don't get him anymore. So typically whenever you do something that's like innocent, like Montau, let's just get together for and be a community, it kind of like takes on a mind of its own. So then people make it something that it's not. So by the end, what did it have... evolve into. And the only reason I'm asking this is because I think that this is on the show,

but one person said, I don't think it was one of you guys, where it was like mom talk was about challenging the patriarchy and like all of this stuff. Did it become that or is that just what the show is making it? I think it didn't become that, but I think naturally we all were the breadwinners, right? Because we ended up making more money and like supporting our family. So I think that's what we meant by that is like you're challenging like the cultural norms maybe in the church because it's not typical for the woman to be like the provider of the families. I think it's more something leading into that more than being like. But with like the monta, I feel like there were girls that liked to be the leader,

mainly Whitney, because I don't feel like you wanted, it's not like you wanted to be the leader, but I felt like there was like, there's a lot of strong personalities. And so it did kind of turn to this weird patriarchy thing where they're like, I'm the leader, no, I'm the leader, no, I'm the leader. And so I'm like, what is happening? I feel like to that just being in the space that we've been in for so long. Like, I hang out with a lot of content creators, like after a day of her 12 years, like, and a lot of our husbands help us or support us.

They're like, we go out and like tell the video and then the husbands are helping us with the kids or whatever. And it changes and ebbs and flows like you're starting her business. And so it kind of goes like you're in there. But that had to be like, how did y'all's husbands react to that perception from the show? Mine doesn't care. It's just like very. And I always say this and I hate it. But like being from California, it's like in the different culture.

Yeah. I know like it's very much like 50-50 there where it's like you have more tradition and a man. The house, friends, the house, and all the place forward. It makes the decisions. And I just, like, we never saw things like that growing up in California. And so we never. You know, like, it's more like partners. If anything, he's like, call me a while in New York.

He's like, hey, so you need to post on this. How do you know, why are you doing this? I'm like, baby mama. I was like, getting so bad. He's like, you're Chris Jutter. He's like, work at having him so great book. He's like he's so supportive. And he's like, shit.

Yeah. Like, yeah. For us, I would say in Texas, it's even a more traditional culture as well, where it's like, you know, the men are. are sort of conditioned to be the providers. So I have a lot of friends who are friends with Danny, like in the space and a lot of their husbands have switched over because it just makes the most sense for the family. And they really struggle with it.

Like their ego and like just everything that they knew about the social structure is kind of flipped. And I kind of figured that that would have been the case more so with y'all's husbands, maybe not everyone's husband, but like any husbands in the group struggling with that? And did it change the dynamic of y'all's marriages at all? I feel like they'd have to at some point because you guys have like men, are like born to do that like to feel like provide protect that's like in you you know so I feel like even if they're not coming out in a minute it's got to be like this like some sort of feeling like a natural

instinct it's a yeah it's like a natural thing so I'm truly they've all felt that and even for well so my ex hard to say but Dakota came into it not like knowing I provide for myself with everything right but I do think there's sense of like I want to do this for you I want to right it's naturally he's wanting to to fill his purpose in life right totally yeah which I do get that. So I don't think it's a thing they're like sad about, but it's more like a natural I want to do this for you. Yeah. I also feel like with my husband too, like he kind of lost a lot of his hobbies too. And if like moms are very common, they lose her hobbies and they're just a mom. And so like going through my health stuff too, when I wasn't able to take care of my kids,

I was like, what is my purpose? Like I feel like I'm just taking care of my kids. And so when you can't do that, I feel like there is going to be a little bit of that in the back of your head. Like I'm not doing what I'm supposed to be doing. Or like a little insecurity. But I feel like our husbands for the most part are really supportive. Like I always say my husband was meant to be the stay-at-home dad. because he's way more patient than I am. Like, he handles stress way better than I do. And so he loves being a stay-home dad. But he's definitely had issues, especially, like, sense losing his job where he's like,

well, what am I going to do? Like a little more insecurity, but he's still so supportive. I think they need to have, like, a hobby or something they're passionate about it. If they're not being the provider, the sole provider or like the head provider, I guess. Because I do, I would say that's like when my husband wasn't working, there was a little bit about where it's like they kind of lose to their self-esteem. And I think they, like, now my husband is working again. because he needed that for himself.

I needed to feel successful, to feel fulfilled. And I totally understand that because I would feel the same way. I have to be doing something. Me too. And it's like, if I'm not, I'm like, I'm so lazy. I feel that way, even about like, like you said, like the pressures of being a stay-at-home mom, like I don't know if that's just not for me. Like, I will always want to be working.

And there was a couple years that Jordan took off and we were trying to figure out what he's going to be doing. He's working now again. And, but it's, yeah, that's why it's like, it just ebbs and flows and you figure out together and every couple is different. And I don't think that there's like a ride or wrong with. do it. You just, like, every marriage is unique. So, um, okay, I want to talk more about this. I want to talk more about your husband, losing his job, like more about your business and everything.

So on this podcast, we like to de-imluence people. I don't want this podcast to be like a gotcha moment. Like I, like I said, I told you guys before this, a lot of the girls, a lot of the community that follows us, I think they followed y'all before the show, before the scandal, which we'll talk about like briefly. And so I think they just really want to get to notice. you guys even better. So we kind of like to just de-influence each person. But can you tell us briefly about the suing scandal just so we will understand like the background because honestly that kind of everything was born from that. I mean, y'all are already like really successful before. Right? And you were doing your own thing like you grew your own businesses. But then everything kind of blew up after that.

Yeah. Watch how far back to me. I mean, okay, so it was it wasn't, it was outside of mom talk. You were baking TikToks with two other couples. Yes. Right. And then, and now it happened. Okay, yeah. So that's where I think things got messy is because I was doing both, right? I had both groups of like mom talk and then swinging group. Yeah. So during like mom talk, yes, we were like swinging, doing our things.

Stop swinging. Stop swinging. Yes, honestly, inexperienced opening up the relationship. And so, yeah, we had a group of friends and we were doing that, like night, I would say. And I was making mom talk stuff by day. That's like literally the gist of it. But I don't know how deep you want me to go. we had a following out with this group because I had, you know, messed up.

We were filling around. I had the affair. And then things kind of like went like from there. And then this group messed up and called someone, told them. And then it hit the internet. So it blew up from there because like one, I was obviously getting destroyed online. Like I'm a husband stealer on all these things. And I'm okay.

I don't want to be known for that. So I have to go on and defend myself. And it's like, this is actually what happens. And I had no idea it was going to blow up. Like I just kind of tell my followers and this would be behind me. That's what I thought. Yeah. No.

It was like, I don't, I guess I didn't see. it flowing up, but then now I think of it like warm and swinging. Like I understand now, it makes sense, but that's kind of how it went. And then everyone hated me for a second. And then Whitney called me these two, you know, reached out, like, hope you're okay. But I think everyone was confused. They didn't know what was going on. They don't know the true story. There's my side. There's their side. So it was like very confusing. And I felt the girls felt very lost in Montau. They're like, well, obviously, they didn't want to probably be my friend in this giving the information. But I think once they like learn, then like, okay, like,

yeah, Taylor messed up, but also like, she's sounding true. Yeah. So I think that's why I think there was a lot of like seeing one side of one story. And so people were like feeding off of each other's energy almost. And then we were like, wait, maybe we should actually hear the other side of the story. Because I know it was true and what was not true. We were being fed lives from some people. But not even like unwillingly to like people would invite us over to tell us these lies. Yeah.

Yeah. So it was weird. More information. They were like giving up. Or people just DM me stuff and you're like, I didn't even really want to receive this. Yeah. And then you're like learning that and you're like, I don't even know if this is true. So did Tate, what's his name?

Do you all still have like a, well, you're parenting together? What is that like now after all of this? It's so good. I would have actually never guessed that. We've actually been good since. We live close to each other. We're co-parenting really well. Yeah, I mean, honestly, if marriage is just friendship,

like I've said this, like I could have been married for my whole life to him. But also, like, there's a part that there's that love, you want, that passion, which I didn't have. So you feel like even before the scandal, do you feel like all we're into? well even before that. Oh, yeah. I think everyone's marriage just weren't. And that's why we were able to partake in this.

I think everyone was tapped out. That's why everyone actually now is divorce. Oh, they all are? Everyone's. You're kidding. I didn't know that. Wow. And so do you feel like that kind of spurred,

that kind of was like the straw that broke the candle's back? Yeah, I think everyone would have ended up in divorce regardless at maybe future times, but this probably was just like... Expedited it. Yeah. Interesting. Even for myself. Like, who knows how long would have stayed married to him, you know?

Like, again, it was. was not a bad marriage, but it wasn't like a passionate one either. Because I think you said that you felt pressured to get married because of maybe like the culture of growing up in Utah. I think some of y'all have said that. Yeah. I mean, because you were young, right? Yeah, we were young, but I think I just like, he marked off like all like the boxes. And I was like, I don't know. Like for me, I did love him, but I think I should have given it more time. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that can be hard too whenever you're just like, you check up the boxes. You're like, this is the next thing to do. And then like five years later, you're like, oh my gosh, what did I do? Yeah. So that can be, that can be hard.

I appreciate you sharing that story because I was always kind of wondering, you know, how it got there. You know, I didn't know. It's like, oh, we were already in Rocky marriages. I kind of was connecting it more to like social media. Like, oh, maybe all this, all these followers and views came and then maybe that hurt their ego or something. And so it's, it's interesting to hear the real story of like how it goes from zero to 100. Oh, now we're soft swing because, I mean, I don't know. I guess it would probably be more of a secret if it happened, you know, in Texas, but it's not a prominent... Oh, it happens in Texas for sure.

Well, I know it happens, but like... We know some people. Oh, we do? The crazy thing is, like, I usually don't... I guess what I'm trying to ask is, like, is it a prominent culture of getting to that point to try and resolve marital issues? Because, you know, I would look at Utah in LDS culture as a more traditional, conservative culture.

So I think that that's probably why it was such a big scandal is like, whoa, how did we go from zero to 100? Yes. Right? And so it was like rocky marriage and then it kind of just builds that. Absolutely. Well, there's a lot of that like pretending your marriage is okay, but you're doing these things behind closed doors.

So it's like, I feel like there's a lot of that in the culture. Just like everything's fine and putting on like the good, like we're all perfect. We're all good. Yeah. So you feel like if you lived in L.A. And like it wouldn't have even been a big deal.

Probably not. Right. I think if the Mormon, I must like I think it's still would. Yeah. Yeah. The Mormon aspects for sure. Yeah.

But no, I think there was a whole different aspect of you being huge on TikTok, you being Mormon, you being this, and then a swinger. And so people were like, you were making videos joking around about swapping. Yeah. About swinging before the scandal came out. So it was like, oh, it's a funny joke.

It's like, oh, it was like real. Yeah. You know, honestly, they would get like the people. They'd be like, sorry. She's like, nobody's going to. Do you know the Instagram? Do you know the Enigram? Oh, yeah.

I think so. It's like a personality. I was like, I was like a camera. I was like, I can't remember. Do you remember? You're at eight? I think so. I think so.

eight and three. I remember which one's first. Wait, what is this? I'm so big. It's like a personality test. So fun. I was just curious what y'all were. Because you seem like you don't care what people think about you, which is my, I wish so badly that I was like that. I'm like the most sensitive person ever. And but sometimes I'm just like, I wish I could just put it out there and not care. And if people get bugged, I'm like, whatever. Yeah, I don't. I get that from my mom. Yeah, I feel like I was the same way. It's a blissful way to. Yeah. Yeah. If you're in eight, then you don't.

Yeah. Because I'm like, I really don't. like you can think with you want. Okay, so speaking of Macy, I want to, okay, we're going to first de-imple with Macy. Can you, you have a crazy story? Yeah. Can you tell us about your story? Yeah, what do you want to know?

It's really deep. I know. I mean, as deep as you want to go, like we like to go deep, but like, however you're comfortable. I would think about this is like a platform where people can get to know you on a level that they wouldn't on another podcast.

So you go as deep as you. Because you probably have done so in an interview saying the same thing. Oh, for sure. Okay, I'll give like a kind of toughness because I would be here for five hours. Yeah. with you, but long story short, I was a D1 tennis player.

So, like, me and my both, my sisters are tennis players and we're all D1 tennis players. And so, like, I went to BYU for tennis. My sister was actually the head coach. She said, she's like, they're coming here because I was like recruited by other schools. I'm going to do UCLA. She's like, well, I'm a coach now. And it was great because, like, we had a great relationship and everything. And going into college, I met a guy before that.

And he was a couple years older than me. And long, short, he was abusive. So he was like, it was like domestic violence. And then I don't know what we can say. here, but, like, he's sexually assaulted me. That's how I lost my virginity. He drugged me one night. It's very, like, deep.

So I'm saying it's so casually. No, it's, no. It's intense. But no, like, no, like, I think it's good for, you know. I know. People get shocked when I say this, but it's like, I'm, like, desensitized because, like, I'm told so many people. Yeah.

But, like, so that was hard because he was also Mormon. So I feel like a lot of things going through that relationship was hard because it's like, oh, well, like, I'm Mormon too. And, like, he is making me feel, like, you're pressured about things or, you're, like, guilty about things. things and like whenever I try to leave the relationship, I always got threats. It was like, I'm going to tell you, like, tell honor code that like you're doing this, but then I would have got kicked out of school. So I stayed with this person because I was like blackmail pretty much.

So I was like in this really bad relationship freshman year. And I became like a different person. Like I was like, I was like I still was a good person in my core. But it just changed who I was. Like I was dark. Like I had like a dark cloud over me. And like anyone would. And I tell everyone. I'm like, I was like psychotic. If you played me in tennis, I'm so sorry because I was like, psycho, like, freshman sophomore year, because I had, like, some demons. Like, some anger pent up. Or something else would come on the door. Yeah.

So, I'm, like, time people to F off. Like, ask me why you have all played since. He's playing tenant. I, like, can't imagine her telling him all that off off off. I need this Macy on the show. Just you don't know, like, she's, we've been talking for much. She's, like, the sweetest person ever. But, hey, I love that.

Oh, I love that. Oh, I love it. Oh, I love it. So, yeah, so I was, like, kind of crazy. And then my sister, who's my coach, she was like, what is wrong with you? like you are like so different. And I was like,

couldn't really tell her or tell anyone. So I was very isolated. And I like couldn't tell my friends or anyone when I was like going here. So it's all like on me. So it would come out on the tennis court. And then luckily I was able to be out of the relationship because he ended up, he was from California as well. And he ended up going back to California who's having some health issues.

And so the day he laughed, I was like, I'm going to break up with him. But I was like super nice because I didn't want to like threaten me again. So I was just like, oh, maybe we can get back together. I just need some space and that to like finish tennis season. So luckily I was able to get out of that relationship.

And then two weeks later I met. knew and then it was a very like different relationship, very free, very open. We were both like kind of been like our party phase. Also LDS. Also LDS. But like you're kind of the same wavelength where we weren't like following the guidelines, right? Yeah. You're young. We're young. We're having fun. Yeah. And like partying or whatever. And I thought he didn't have it from my previous relationship because I never drank or anything before. Yeah. I met this other guy. But like just a bad situation. We were partying doing all things and I like we're in love and then I got pregnant at BYU. So I left school. So I had to withdraw because I don't want to get in trouble on our phone.

And so, like, I was getting to skirt around that a little bit. Just, like, withdrawing from school, I was no longer a student. So I couldn't, like, get in trouble. Yeah. I left school and then I went back to California to kind of figure out my life. I just didn't know. It was like my tennis crew is over. Like, my life is over.

Like, I kind of was following all the stereotypes of society. Like, when you get pregnant young, you're like, hey, like, now I'm just going to be a mom or I'm going to have to be, like, you know, who knows what? And then after that, like, two or three weeks later, he passed away in a car accident. So he passed away. and it was like obviously the most traumatic thing of my life, had the worst pregnancy, like horrible,

like the worst depression for it. I've never really had depression or anxiety in my life before this. Everyone gets a little anxiety and things here. Of course. But my depression was so bad. I wasn't suicidal, but it was, it was there, you know?

Yeah. I think I would have made it through if I wasn't pregnant. Totally. So I always say that my son when I had him was like my saving grace because like when I had him, it was like 80% that depression was like lit it off my body. And I found my purpose again. I found like what I wanted to do again.

And like, because of him, I went back to school. I finished my tennis scholarship as a single mom. So I was being an athlete, doing school, being a single mom. Granted, I couldn't have done it without my parents' health. Like, I was the baby of the family. So, like, my mom was able to come help me because, like, she never, she didn't have a job or anything growing up. So I was very fortunate to have these circumstances for sure because I know it's not the case for everyone else.

But I was able to finish my tennis career at BYU. Before I had him, I was doing so bad in school, but they didn't care. I've lived in life. I felt like a 2.9 once in a semester. What got picked out? Or, like, at one point nine, I don't even know what it was, but it was bad. And after I had him, it was bad, you guys.

After I had him, I never got below, like, a 3, 5 or, like, 4-0, pretty much. Like, I just, like, worked my ass off pretty much and graduate school. I met my husband, and he, like, accepted my son took both of us in.

How old was this Hudson again when? Yeah, when we met, he was, like, seven months, but I didn't, like, introduce him until Hotson was, like, because, like, I did have guys who had slide in the DMs. I'm like, I love kids. And I'm like, you know, like, I love kids. I want to be a dad.

I'm like, you know, get away. Like, I don't want, like, that seems like fishy to me.

Yeah. So I was really cautious of, like, who I brought, like, my son around. And my husband

is funny because, like, I feel like I rejected him a lot. And I think it's because, like, I don't know. I think I was just scared. So, like,

next person I'd get into a relationship with, like, I want it. And, like, you want it to play. You know? Um, you know,

um, I do. I will say, I will say, I will say, I'd be like go kiss out of girls and I'd see him at a party and like a girl would be like all over him. I'm like, oh, that's mine. Like, I really, like, I love it all.

The competition. It's a student of an athlete. Yeah. And he like, liked me too much. Yeah. Wait, that was Jordan with me. He kept like DTRing, which I don't know if you guys know that. Define the relationship.

Yeah, yeah. We get it. What is that? I'm like Texas too. DTR. Determined in relationship or define the relationship. Yeah, but what does it mean? He kept doing.

Like, he was trying to like, I don't want to be boyfriend and girlfriend. Oh. Like he was trying them before. Where are we? Like, what are we? Are we this? Yeah. And I'd be like, oh, what you know? And then I wouldn't. I'd never bring it up. And too, and he's like, sorry, and I was like, nothing. And then, like, I was like, kind of rude. Like, he was so good. He just kept coming back

in and show where I was like, he's like literally the best guy. Like, he was just so good to me. And like, I think I had on the marriage material. And I had a pass for, like, enough boys and not even good a lot. So I was like, this is the first, like, really nice, nice guy that was just pure. And it was, like, hard for me to, like, accept the love, I guess. you know, I feel like I deserve it. And so, yeah, and like we got married and yeah.

Were you on social media when you got married or when you got married or when you were dating? No, I mean, I had an account, but I wasn't like posting. Yeah, posting. I mean, I started after you got married. I started to blog and wrote my life story. And that's kind of how it started. Like, I wasn't trying to like be an influencer, but I wanted to like help other women. Because like when I was growing through things, I was like, I, no one feels like I do.

And I granted there play people out there, but I wasn't seeing it. Because I feel like that was the curated Instagram where it's like, perfect life, perfect everything. And so I was like, I just want to lay it out there and hope that someone can relate to me. I could help someone else who's been through like these same circumstances because especially as a woman. I was like, I don't, I haven't heard these stories, you know? And so I laid it all out there and it like, I had so many women reaching out. I'm like, through my first 10k and I was like, wow, this is crazy? And I was like, what about? Instagram? Instagram. I was like, I wonder if this could be something more. And then like TikTok came around and I was extir posting on

there. And I got like my first 60K from like a video and I was like, I don't like you keep posting it. This will be the new Instagram. Yeah. And I just just just just consistent. Like I grew from there and like a blessing to be honest. Well, I know a lot of people, like your story is insane. And I know it's probably not super easy to share, especially every day to strangers. But I bet so many people appreciate it so much. And like you've probably impacted so many of those lives that you don't even know. Yeah. And so I think that's why a lot of people resonate honestly with all of y'all is that you're not perfect. We all make mistakes. But instead of just hiding behind the facade, like you guys are real and own it and are vulnerable.

And that's when people really connect. I feel like is through all of that, not by like your perfect lifestyle and your perfect picture and a perfect hair. Like, nobody wants to see that anymore. Exactly. I feel like that's why we've connected so much. Just because we are a group that trauma dumps a lot. Yeah.

That's how we connect. Like, and so quickly, too. So many people have trauma. Like, you had to learn up the hard way, though. Yeah. I just feel like that was how I wanted to be on TikTok. It was like, I want to look pretty. I want to look perfect.

I want to do all this. And then, damn, I get it. When everything blew up, that's when people liked me. Yeah. I like, come on crying me. I hate my life. We like this and like, yes, it's a mess to watch, but also it's like, we're seeing like a true person, like suffering and like expressing.

You're real. That's how we all can relate to me. And I think that's what we're excited to. We get a season two is that like we want to be able to dive into our stories to research. Because like, McKale has amazing story. Taylor, besides her swinging scandal, has like a lot of amazing spending in her life. And so I think we are excited people who know us in a deeper level, not just for like the drama and the scandal.

Exactly. It's almost like the drama and the scandal will like hook them in. But then now you guys are going to have this platform and this opportunity. I told you this earlier. I'm like, I feel like y'all are on step one of like 100 where it's like when you look back at the Kardashians' first episode and you're like, oh my gosh, like look what they were wearing and look how they filmed it. And that's how I feel like you guys are going to be in 10 years because I feel like you have so much longevity with where you're going because of your personalities, not only your person, but like your hearts in like the way that y'all are able to be vulnerable.

So I'm glad that you brought up Michaela's story. I want to. Can I ask my question? Oh, okay. Sorry, sorry. I have a question. Yeah. So you went to BYU.

Yeah. Okay, so we went to Utah. He's like, like, how do I get in? Because I have in. They all said that Jordan looks like he's like, would go to B. Yeah. You guys like Christian? Yeah.

Yeah. So we're like even, yeah, evangelical Christians. And so, you know, shoot, you said that. So now I have another question. But my first question is on BYU. So we went to like a true southern school, like known as a party school. Yeah. When we think of BYU, we think of not partying.

or anything like that. We think of the projection that the LDS community is projecting, which is we're perfect. We don't drink. We don't drink coffee. You told me two stories in that whole thing.

We were noty. Pretty wild with BYU. Is it common for students just to skirt around the honor code? Like, is that the majority? Is that the minority? Like, are you guys truly a party school just hiding behind the honor code?

Like, what is the dynamic like there? I wouldn't say we're a party school by any means because I feel like this could be a mixture. I always say this. Like you can find it at any school. you want, no matter where it is. I had the same perception of you before I went there. I was like, people don't drink her. They don't do anything bad. And then like, I got into that stuff and it was like, oh, my roommate across the hall drinks. Like, let's party together. Like, it became one of those

things. Like, there's a whole, I always snubbed of this, the whole underground party scene. And there's, like, rules for these things because you don't want to get caught, right? Because we go to the honor code, you get in trouble and, like, kick you out. So, like, you go to a party and, like, you would put alcohol in your cup, like, in the bathroom. Like, you wouldn't want anyone to see you. Like, you don't want to have any evidence of anything. And, like, and, like, I can smell it. But if everyone has who's to say, like, I was the one

drinking or they were drinking, I mean, because we all had the cup, you know, so no one really knows. It's funny, because when you're talking to Whitney about it, because Whitney, I think, lived at her parents' house when she went to BYU, so she's like, there's the party seat. She's like, that's going to talk in. Oh, yes, it did.

I'm like, the reason why you don't know about the party seat is the reason why you weren't invited. So, like, you were the person that would rat us out. You don't invite just anyone. You have to invite people who you trust. Like, there were, like, actually rules. Like, you didn't just bring like a, plus one. Like, we'd have to know who they were, like,

rather chill. Like, how do we know if they're... It's like exclusive. No, it was, but not because we wanted to be just because, like, you don't want to get in trouble. It's like, there was times where someone didn't show up and they, like, to pick up someone who wasn't drinking or something and then they would wrap them out, like that. They were going to a private school, I feel like.

Yeah. I'm like going to one of Taylor's swinging party. Was it that an exclusive? Yeah, like, a lot of people were shocked when they found out that they were out of parties and I didn't know where I didn't... They had to be smart. But did you ever try to, like, invite new people? we could kind of gauge, he would be like down. My second question is, do you guys becoming better at like being more vulnerable and not being

the perfect LDS persons? Do you think that that is challenging other LDS members to do the same in a good way? And what I mean by that is that I don't know the differences like in our beliefs. I think that they have some overlap in terms of like Jesus and the gospel. So the whole gospel for us is like we can't be perfect enough to earn God's favor. but it seems like the difference culturally between like evangelical Christians in the South and like Mormons in Utah is like what we are projecting. So like Christians in the South are like, hey, like we're not good enough. We can never be good enough.

And so like that's why we need Jesus. Whereas like I think that there's this projection, even the guidelines at the school of like don't do this, don't do this, don't do this. But I almost wonder if it like misses the heart of the matter. You know, it's like you're still drinking. Yeah. You know, and your biggest, you're the heart of you want to. to drink is still there. Yeah.

But you're trying to skirt around these guidelines. So, like, what's the point, really? And so I'm wondering if you're challenging stereotypes. I think it encourages people to almost hide it more. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I don't do that. I think, too, like, the guidelines are in place not to be perfect.

It's more so just, like, so you can have the best, like, you can't. It's kind of like, it's protection, I would say. It's, like, why they have certain guidelines. It's not because it's like, oh, you need to be perfect. It's more like these are in place because, like, we think you're going to live the best life if you follow these guidelines. Like, you know, there are consequences. You can get kicked out of the school

if you break the honor code. And I want to understand this later, so let's not get into it yet. But you can't take sacrament if you've done X, Y, Z, right? So they're kind of not just guidelines that are like, hey, you have to uphold this or else X, Y, Z consequences.

Yeah, and I think that's why we have, like, the atonement, like our repentance process is because it's like, we want people to repent and to go to our bishops and be like, hey, I did that. But how can I, like, be forgiven? And it's like, it's not like, how can I be because it's not like,

how can I be? right. But it's more like how can you forgive yourself? Like, no, you did something wrong and forgive yourself. I don't know if I necessarily agree with all the processes in place with the church. For sure. I do think to me, having to have repented to a bishop at some point in time, multiple times to say, at least it's not something that I would want. I think my girls to be in the future. And if they did, I would want to be in the room because I do feel like, I will say there is a difference between Mormons right now in time in like our parents' generation. And I would say that culture is a little more strict, a little more.

to the book and not as forgiving, whereas I feel like the Mormons in our generation are a little bit more progressive and accepting. And so I think that's what the show we really wanted to show is that, like, you can be Mormon and make these mistakes. And that's okay. I'm like, just still loves you and God still loves you and you have a place at church. Like, you don't have to go hide because you're not perfect. So much of it is more about the heart, not the guidelines and check on like this role off of a list. Right. Yeah. And I think that Mormons who are upset about that are because like, it's almost coming from a place of like jealousy where it's like, well, like I'm doing all these things and you're not, you're still afraid to be this. Or pride.

A pride of saying, hey, I am good enough. I have earned God's favor in a way that you. And you're not doing it. Yeah, that you haven't done it. So God loves me more. It's like, when I was watching the show, you know, I told Danny this. But like, I was watching your story because I knew about the swinging scandal. And, you know, you were struggling with Dakota of having a baby out of wedlock. And I was like, man, you know what's so crazy is like, who Jesus would be having dinner with is Taylor. Like 100%. He would be there with Taylor being like, hey, Like, you've made a mistake, but like I'm here. I love you all the same. And that's what I think is cool about what you were saying. About just being open and honest about your story is because you're breaking down these stereotypes that you have to be perfect. Yeah. Which I think in a crazy way will lead more people to Jesus.

Agree. Yeah. And I think it's kind of confirmed like why we're doing the show, at least for like all the people that are active, like getting the comments from people being like, you guys aren't Mormon. This is disgusting. Yeah.

This isn't what a typical Mormon wife looks like. And then we're like, oh, it confirmed why we're doing this. there are people still out there who think there's one way that a Mormon wife should look like or apt or we shouldn't be talking about sex openly or different things or feel shame talking about these things. So I think it's important to have those conversations. I think it has already opened a lot of people up to having those conversations. So yeah. And again, I think this is wild. This whole reality TV show, it's like 180 of what people expected. People watched it. They they watched it. They were like, I'm going to watch this. And they loved it. And then they were like,

oh man, like, because you have to face yourself. You're like, you have to face your your own hypocrisy and be like, why do I think I'm better than Taylor or like Taylor? Exactly. And they're not. Some people can't do that. And so they're just like, I hate her. I'm going to con. Yeah. If I think a lot of two, that, all that judgment has come from the culture. When it comes to the culture, not the church. Not the church. And the religion. And the religion. Yeah. People are making up their own, like, beliefs based off our guidelines. And we're like, well, you're not supposed to do this. Why aren't you doing this? It's coming from their own insecurities and there. I'm like, it's our relationship with God. I don't care what you

Yeah, because I know that Jesus is going to love me, whether I have a cup of coffee today or not. They're probably just projecting a little bit. Yeah, so a lot of it is cultural, not like. They start to worship the culture. That's really, I want to talk about that more later. We'll go into everyone's story, but that is so intriguing that it's the culture, not the church. Yeah, I mean, that makes a lot of sense. So, okay, to keep things moving, Michaela, I feel like we didn't really get to hear too much of your story on the show.

And I think I saw a big job. There's something that, I mean, you were going through a lot. Yeah. So can you kind of tell us a little bit? And tell us about yourself. What I know about Vakela? It's a nice story. Thanks, Nisi.

I'm like, thank you. I'm hoping season two, we get some more. Actually, for sure. Yeah, for sure. So I'm Michaela. I actually grew up in California as well. I grew up in Grimala Hills. And then moved down here when my parents got divorced when I was like

nine or ten, I think, in Provo. And so it's a totally different scene. I did grow up LDS, not as by the book is notes. I feel like probably closer to you. But, no, I'm like, I don't know. It's not really cool. It'll be good practice. Have you started filming season two?

No. It'll be good practice. Wait, you know, I think. Story in season one? Yeah, I did. So it is, I mean, if there's a season two, I hope it'll be in there. I can't say much about that or go, like, too. In depth with that.

Sure. But yeah, so I had my first kid when I was 17. They got pregnant when I was 16, had him at 17. I think it was like a junior in high school at this point, right? Senior? So, also, Tom, while you moved out of your house? I feel like I know her close or you're like It didn't show up.

We're like best friends too And they didn't really show up. Yeah, but like, y'all were friends because of TikTok. Yeah, yeah. I would say, no. I would say we were the closest out of like the other group. Yeah.

But I guess we were best friends. You might say we got closer during show. Yes, for sure. Yeah, I wouldn't say like we were best friends when we started. It's like that sound that's like, yeah, I'm your best friend. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm your best friend. Yeah.

Yeah. So I moved down in my house when I was 15 and with a friend down the street that I grew up with. Then I moved into my sister's house with my other sister, who also moved out when she was 17, just due to my mom's situation with her boyfriend. We did have really get along with her boyfriend. So she was like, he's happened. So we moved out with my sister, and then I got pregnant almost exactly a year later. Like, I think I found out almost a year exactly that I was pregnant at 16.

So moved in with my now husband, Jace, had my son at 17, got married when I was almost 18. I had my second when I was 19 my third when I was 21 and then when I was when I was 21 is when it was right after my last daughter that I started having my health issues like I didn't really have anything before and then it kind of just came out of nowhere

and it started with like little things like I got I don't know if you guys like your kids have had molestum no they're like little I don't even know how to explain them it's like a pimple without a head like a yeah it's like a little warp like kids get them it's not very common that adults get them and so like I got like molestcan

And then my dermatologist was like, oh, that's really weird. And then I started getting rashes and like really bad allergies. And no one could really figure out what it was. Like I went to dermatologist for years. Now I've been dealing with it for almost three years and still have no answers on what it is exactly. But at the beginning of January or when was it, March, in 2023, I got breast implant. I put it in. And within a month, I just broke out in rashes so bad.

And then I got on steroids, like two or three rounds of steroids. and every time I got off the steroids, it would just rebound and come back so much worse. And then I would go through steroid withdrawal where I was like constantly shaking. I was like my body temperature was going. It was like I was an addict going through withdrawal. And that lasted for like three months.

And I was going through it while filming. And so that's stirring filming. Yeah. So it was at the worst when I was filming. I think when we started filming season one, I had just got my implants out. And so I had to go from getting my implants out to getting my implants out to getting

on a flight next day filming season one, like going. So I would just go out of surgery. And I ended up having an emergency surgery after I got my implants out because I bought a hematomor. So like that same night you had to go back and get another surgery to like, which that's just like a fluke drain out. Yeah, I know. But for me it was like so it would just showed my story. I was like, of course there's another thing. Of course. Of course there is. Like I would do one thing, nothing would work and then something else would come. And that's kind of like what's been happening. And then I got me, I had an infector root canal that I got taken out because I just went down like rabbit holes of like maybe it's this, maybe it's this, maybe it's this. So I was so desperate to try anything and I feel like people with chronic illness are

and especially when you're not getting answers. They're like, well, I mean, I'm desperate to try anything. So I pulled out my tooth. I got all the infection cleaned out. I went to Costa Rica and I got all my mercury feelings taken out because I had mercury toxicity in my body and I had bacterial infections and all sorts of different infections in my body. And I went on like three different medications that would work for a little bit and then it would rebound. And so I feel like I'm still in that cycle right now of like, I don't know what, like I'm a lot better than I am for sure or what I was for sure. But there's still, I mean, it's still like a process. Yes. I'm sure. I do. Don't break the time about you diet. Yeah. I've been, yeah. I've been eating nothing. I've

been eating like a rabbit for the last year and a half. But with filming, I do feel like taking the implants out did hell. Because I took the implants out and it was like I would have some symptoms that would go away. I took the implants out and I lost like 12 pounds in like a week of just water weight and inflammation. And so then I and then my eyebrows started falling out and my hair started falling out. And that's when we started filming. Like I remember looking back at the first clip and I was like it looks like I went through chemo. Like my eyebrows started flowing out. My eyes were all sucking in. I lost like 12 pounds in a week. And then I would gain 12 pounds of inflammation in a week. And so I feel like during filming I was just like this. I look different in each scene because it really was just like a roller coaster.

And with filming a reality show, it's hard because I didn't know what I was going to be like tomorrow. And so I would have to show up to filming no matter what it was like. So I feel like that was the really hard mental battle of it. And like I was the person that always showed up and sweat and no makeup. And so people are like, oh, why is she not ready? Why is she not looking like this certain way? But I feel like it was important for me to still show up and still bring light to chronic illness. And like it's so common, especially now on these days.

I feel like chronic illness is of an all-time high. and not a lot of people talk about it or like want to get to the root cause of things. It's like, here, take this medication, take this medication. Put a band-aid on it. And so I feel like it's really important. I have touched a lot of people and I get a lot of messages. And so I'm happy that I'm sharing it, even though it's not easy.

Like, it's not easy to show up to filming and be like, oh, I don't recognize that girl or like have to show up to filming knowing millions of people are going to watch this or see me like this. And so I feel like that was the most important thing to me is to still show up no matter what, matter how I was filming our feeling because I know people out there are feeling the same way and want to connect with other people who are going through similar things. Wow. And they did touch on it in season one, but I feel like we didn't get to hear like all of that,

like the heart of it and how challenging it was showing up each day and like the fact that other people are relating to you and shutting light on that. Like I think that's really, really important what you're doing. So physically, obviously, it's been a huge hindrance. Like are you even like fakey and sick? like all of that too. I am. Like I'm still always shaking. Like all I still can't regulate my body temperature very well. Like I don't have rashes, but like my skin will still be super red and it'll feel super hot. And then in an hour from now I'll be like shaking and cold. Like I'm still really

sick. I have a lot of different infections in my body and different. Mercury toxicity. Mercury is such a reasonable thing. And the fact that they're putting it in people's narrow things wild. How did you find out about that? That you've had her toxicity. Yeah. So I've done like every single test. So blood tests, you're in test, dual tests. And it's really tricky, especially with chronic illness and testing is, it really is just a money market with like pharmaceutical companies and doctors. They're like, oh, well, you can test for this, but it's just a broad range of things. Like if you want to test for something specific, you have to do a test for that thing specific. So I've had to kind of, I've spent tens of thousands of dollars. Do you think that because of the

exposure of the show, a lot more doctors, specialists are reaching out to give you exposure to kind of a new class of doctors or this segment over here. It's so crazy how everyone's body's different. I remember Tony Robbins. Do you know that is? She had mercury. He had mercury poison.

Yeah. So I've listened to a lot of the podcast about it. But he just ate too much fish. Yeah, he did. Yes. He eats so much fish that you have mercury. It's like I think there's different. There's like elemental mercury

or like different types of mercury that you can get. But like, fillings in your mouth will literally vaporize. Yes. Like at a certain, I think it like a certain, temperature so your body heat will just vaporize them naturally. And so people will get sick from it.

And so I was in like a constant cycle of yes, I was doing all these detoxes, but I still have what's poisoning inside of my body. So it was like I was just working backwards. And so I was doing all the diets. I was doing all the cleanses and nothing was working with so frustrating. And then also I was depressed because I couldn't eat anything good. Like I'm such a foody person and to take away like dairy gluten sugar. Like all these things, it was so hard. But I don't think I've gotten a lot of doctors reaching out. I feel like I've just found a lot of community of people going through similar things. And it is kind of

a blessing and a curse because they're like, this works for me. And I'm like, okay, great, I'll try it. And it doesn't work for me. And I'm like, okay, now what? But I do think there's more pros than cons. And I've connected with a lot of people that way. I'm actually, well, I started doing like an antifungal stuff because someone told me messaging my husband, actually, which is funny because they're like, I'm trying to get in contact and

she's not answering me. And she's like sending in pictures of like what her skin looked like. I went through similar things. I was on this medication and then this happened. And I was like, okay, that's what's happening to me. And so she's like, I was on this medication and did like this diet. And so that's what I've been doing. And it's like been helping a lot for sure. Like I still have a lot happening. But I don't know if it's working because it's the medication or if it's working because I took out my mercury feelings and things are kind of now just finally detoxing. Yeah. So it's hard to. It's hard to. It's hard to. It's hard to. Because it's hard to say what's not getting. It's not. Exactly. Sometimes Asia takes consistency before you. Oh, for sure. Yeah. It's all. Yeah. It's hard too because people with chronic illness I know are trying so much at one time because they're so desperate. And so I'm like, I don't really. know what's working. I've been doing ozone IVs. I've been doing chelation to detox and mercury. I've been doing the diets. I've been

doing like the mold cleanses, the liver cleanses, the juice cleanses. Like, you just do it all. Literally everything. I've done everything. Yeah. It's a good job. A whole other job just with women. Yeah. It is sure. And like I was saying like with my kids, it's during that period of time, I couldn't take

care of my kids. And so I was like, what is my purpose? And like, also I didn't feel like myself and going through steroid withdrawal. And this is with like your, the chemical balancing you too. So I had a lot of like chemical imbalances and then filming on top of it was just this is kind of a weird question. But like have you found a lot of purpose in this like season or this challenge that you're going through? Like I'm sure a lot of people work up to you now, especially because you have a platform and they're like, hey, thank you

for speaking out on this, you know? Has it kind of given you a sense of purpose just to almost like provide a voice for those people? I think for sure. It's just getting all the messages. I feel like I'm overwhelmed with messages that I get because it's not easy to talk about. And I feel like it's not easy for me to show up and have to like not recognize myself. And that's my job being on camera. And then having a reality show, it's not easy. But I'm like, why is this happening to me? I feel like that was a question. I would always ask my husband. I'm like, this isn't fair. Why is it happening to me? And like, why is it not getting better? And I'm getting all these opportunities like the show, doing all this press stuff, flying out and doing things. And I'm like,

although it's at a bad time in my life where I'm like I wish it was different, different circumstances. I feel like there is a reason. I'm like, I feel like there's a reason it's happening to me. Like I grew up with eczema and I hated having eczema. I would cover it up. And so now I'm like, I just want to show it

and show up for people who might be younger and feeling similar to how I was. And so just having someone to look up to or someone that looks like them or maybe they're not getting answers. And so I share everything that I'm doing. I'm like, I hope this helps someone out there, but like, because I know how frustrating it can,

and it's a lot. But yeah, I'm sure he gets some DMs, but y'all are like, I mean, every single one of you all have crazy stories. Like, so hard right now.

I am overwhelmed. Like, y'all are so strong. And so, thanks for sharing that. Of course. Taylor, let's hear from you.

Can you tell us more about kind of like your childhood and growing up? And then what led you to get on TikTok? Okay, so I grew up Mormon, born and raised. I'd say pretty developed.

Like, they were, they're more laid back though. I was in Colorado until I was 16. So we moved to Utah and then like obviously it's a different culture. So okay. Must us be the Utah culture. It is.

It's a bubble. Yeah. And then I worked, you know, jobs like in high school, fun little jobs. And I became a nanny. And then I sort of do social media once I got married. So with Tate and then my daughter and I used to do matching like outfits. Like we matched. And so I feel like, you know, that's where I kind of built was Instagram.

And then when TikTok came out, I was like, I'm never doing TikTok. Like, that's embarrassing. and then quarantine hit and we're all bored. So we're all TikTok and dancing. Literally, yeah, I did it because I was bored and I was like, fine. I'll get on it. So I was like watching it. And then I did a video and I think my first one did really well.

And Tate had had it for years and he was like, we just did your first video and it's like doing so well. And what the heck? And so I'm like, okay, well, maybe I'll just continue it. So I just kind of did over time. And then random videos would blow up. So I just continued to do it. And then we started to see like emails coming in like it was making money.

And so we just started to like email back. And then it got so busy. I got in management. they started to help me, but then I went over to Macy's because she said, I have a big good manager. So then I just kind of took off from there. Had my second son. And then we were, that's when kind of things were getting rocky and up to that point. So nothing crazy of fucking my childhood. I did never know my dad. So my biological father met him once when I was four. And that was literally it. So I think I have like a lot of underlining daddy issues. Like I'm not

feeling loved and like, wait, why is it? I just said the word daddy-achshy. I feel like, you know, daddy-ish. I know. You said daddy-o-hitch. No, because I can't sing it. Why do you mean saying it? I don't know, because I like, maybe I don't like to admit it.

Like, there's issues there of, like, why I feel the, like, I need to feel validated by men. And I think that comes from, like, never feeling loved by a man, like, growing up. Like, my dad now loves me and was always there. So, like, my stepdad, I've never called him out. Like, he's my dad. But, like, there was, like, this bond between him and my sister. Like, that's your little girl. Like, it wasn't the same with me.

He was very like, I love you, but there was like this disconnect. I felt like, yeah, very unloved, like not unloved, but not this like love that you get from your father, right? And so I felt like there was some issues there, like wanting that. Like I've always had crushes on bishops, dentists, doctors, anyone with authority. Really? And I told like my psychiatrist, and she's like, if you want to feel like loved by someone, you know, like taking care of. Yeah. So those are people that take care of people.

So like managers, I would like like have crushes on because they had authority. It was really weird. I honestly didn't understand. But like therapy, like you learn all these things. So I think the one thing I needed in a marriage was attention because of like all these issues of like being wanted. And then I didn't get that. So I seeked it elsewhere, right?

I think that's where my part of like ruining, destroying my family came from is like I didn't get that. So I seeked elsewhere. And yeah. So I think yeah, that's where my daddy issues come from. And like a lot of the reasons why I am the way I am. I don't know. And then I wanted to meet him as like all.

older and kind of like ask questions. And then he died on my honeymoon. So I got a call saying your dad father passed away. So I never really got the chance to meet him. So yeah, that's pretty much like my child. You're close with your mom though. Yeah. Very and my dad. And my dad. You know, but did they have a relationship? Your mom and your biological father? Yeah. So she actually got pregnant in high school as well. And she was 16, had me at 17. And then he got in a car accident and got addicted to painkiller. So he was actually an adept as well. So he got so addicted that my mom was like, I feel like this is like not good for you to like have her right now. She didn't feel like she trusted him. So he just like signed me over like. And then my dad actually was a missionary, met my mom on his

mission and then came back and got her after his mission and me. And then so adopting me when I was two. And then I got still to them in the temple. And yeah, he was, but I got closer to my dad. I've been closer to him now than I've ever been once all of this. blew up because he came to me and he was like, I'm so sorry. Like, I've been like not distant, but like haven't been close to you and he's always felt that. And so he's been here for me like a lot. Like he's over like all the time like, like, what can I help you with? Like very loving. So I'm like so grateful for him. And it's nobody's fault. Like nobody's fault. It's just like that underlining feeling you have growing up feeling like on love or like not but enough

to be like he didn't fight for me, right? My dad. So anytime that a guy has done me dirty, I think it like validates that feeling. That's why I like, I think, I can't grasp it and it's happened to me my life. But I think when Decoded it, it was like, it was just like so hurtful. Like, I can't, I don't know. Like, it's, like, it's, like, ruined me. And it's not because of him.

It's like, because of these wounds that are, like, not healed, you know? So I, like, still can't talk about it. It's, like, sucks. I don't know. You're so mature for everything that, like, the way they've been processing all of this. Like, it's amazing to see, like, even talking about your childhood and, like,

where you are now, like, I have so much respect for you. because most people, I feel like, are not able to, like, look back and be like, oh, this is why this is happening or this is, you know what I mean? I'd have someone tell me, like a therapist. Yeah, but you took the, you took, you went. And like, most people can't face that. Like, trust me, like, what you're doing is amazing, like, even just a self-reflection. And, like, you're an incredible person. You really are.

And I know you've been through a lot, but. I was betting on this. The whole show, asked Danny. I was like, I feel. He literally. I do. episode like episode like two or three he was like what did you say you're like she's the most like you're on the show right because y'all shot the pilot we can get in this later but like y'all shot the pilot and then you basically come on to episode two pregnant right yes that's kind of how weird episode two onward I was like even through the I'll say it because you said it toxicity of you and deco's relationship I was like I feel like she is searching and I feel like she is she's broken but kind of healing like I just felt like you were in this place where it's like man like Jesus is like

so close to like reaching this person. Like I could tell that there was like this redemption story coming. So for you to be on this podcast, like I was betting on it when I was watching it. I just watched it this weekend. But for you to be on the podcast and like show that it's like so cool for me because I was like, man, this is someone that America just hated, you know, because oh my gosh, you're the husband's dealer, you're this, you're that. And I just was like, man, I feel like how cool would the grace and redemption story be for this girl? And it's just that maturity that you just showed is incredible. Well, thank you.

Sorry, I didn't mean to get emotional. I feel bad for Macy because, like, when we, people ask me hard questions, I'm like, because she's been with you, like, interviewing the time. Oh, no. So I like, you want to cry. I like, I know. I cry, like, so much. It's the hormones, too.

And it's like, you get, you get four women together. And it's like, we all, our hormones just, like, all, like, attached to each other. Yeah. It's, like, hard. And it's, like, hard. And it's, like, I've said it so many times. But I feel like the deeper questions, obviously are, like, harder to answer when it's just like, like,

I think my friends have like, everyone around me is like, why can't you get over this like thing that happened? It's just like so much deeper than someone happened. And you're still healing. And you're still figuring it out. Yeah. Yes. And that's all of us, you know?

And sorry if I'm supposed to know this. Are you and Dakota together now? Um, I genuinely don't. I'm not trying to get a gotcha. So you don't have to do. No, we're like working through things. We'll see where it goes. Okay.

Yeah. Tune in for season two. Throughout all of that, like when you first found out you were pregnant or getting married, where was your faith? And, like, how has it, I guess, transitioned till now? Is it still the same? You know what I mean? I was with tape.

Yes, through with tape and till now. Like, I would say it was definitely, like, more devout then. Like, I was going to church. Probably, like, three. No, two out of the four Sundays. Okay. And, yeah, I didn't drink. I was, like, such, that was, like, such a good few years for me.

It's, like, very, like, I don't know. Not spiritual, but. but very in tune with myself and happy, like very happy. I remember those years. And then I think as time went on, obviously, when you're doing those types of things, it brings you nothing to like misery.

And you have to learn the hard way and then misery those companies. So it's like, and I think I felt misery ever since, honestly. I don't think I've been happy. Yeah. That's like, work in progress.

And are you, like, not saying they default, like following the guidelines or going to church, but do you have that faith, like a faith now? That is something like I've never left the church I never wanted to church. It's there for a reason. I feel like it's there for when you like need it

and you help like that's what the message you're. I feel like you're the perfect example of it too because she was like on live saying I'm a swinger and the next week she's going to church. I'm like if Taylor can go to just love it. I'm like that is so cool. And that's what it's right. Like to feel like yeah.

And I think that's what the girls on the show that are Mormon want to like. Yeah. The people who are perfect for sinners. Like that's why we go. No, I want to go and I'm going to feel good. Like, you're going to be forgiven. That's what it's for.

I know. I thought it's about your heart. And I left a comment. We got a comment that they said in the group chat, someone that commented they're like, I would feel much safer in a room of these women than I would with all you Mormons in the comments, like judging them and being judgmental, calling them name, saying you're disgusting. Like, I would feel so much more comfortable with this group of women than any of you guys.

This is what I always say, like, whenever I'm in a Bible study around my friends and like we're being real. I'm like, right now we're experiencing God. We're not just reading about him. but not like actually just like we're not going to church and just thinking, oh, what would that? Like this is like true faith and this is a true experience with the Lord not just, you know, reading something and checking it. Like you said, she doesn't have a list. So yeah. Do you think that right now, Danny and you can tell me if this is a bad idea, I would love to drill into like the difference between the culture and the church?

Because I think that's so helpful for people because you guys are going to understand the show is called the secret life of Mormon wife. So like this all of y'all's trauma is tied up, whether. you meant it to be or not in this like church. So I think what people are trying to de-influence or dissect is like, what role did the church or Mormonism play in where we are today, right? So the swinging and stuff, and it turns out like that was just a really like I went through a lot in my childhood. I was in a broken marriage and then that's how it led to, you know,

but people want to simplify it and be like Mormon swing, you know, like there's general broad strokes. And so like growing up in, I guess I don't even know the question. question. How do you unpack, like, what is the difference between the church and the culture, as you said it, maybe? Yeah. It is tricky. And I would say for me, like, my parents always from growing up, like, the gospel, like, Jesus Christ is perfect, but the people aren't. And I think I've always had that differentiation. Like, when I see people judging us, I'm like, you're not perfect either. And, like, honestly, God, they said not to cast stone to other people. You're not perfect. So I mean, like, go right ahead, but you'll be judged for your judgment. So I think it's just like, it is different culture in California, too, than Utah. And I will say, I did have. judgment growing up because like we weren't the most traditional Mormons. Like we didn't

always go to church on Sunday because I was competing in tennis and you know I wore two tops and usually like you see Mormons there covering your shoulders a little bit more like we just weren't as traditional like my parents more a little bit you know and so I think it just depends on where you live and I'd say Utah has the most judgmental culture. I think people are

very nice here like compared to where I'm from and there people are nice in California. So when I came to Utah it was so nice here like so friendly and like because it's a facade. Yeah I was going to say isn't that just externally nice, but then behind closed doors, it's got... But are they being nice? Because it's like in the Book of Mormon that you have to be nice to everyone so that you get

into heaven? Or what is the root that everybody's following the guidelines? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I think it's just because the guidelines are there for you to live like the best possible. Oh, he's like that. Except like drinking and stuff, it's like, I guess if someone did it in moderation, right, like you probably would be fine.

But like sometimes drinking can lead to you making bad decisions. Oh, 100%. Or if you're driving on it. I've made some medicine. I don't dream. Classic Mormon. I don't drink anymore, but like, I've had my moments in college. I look back and I'm like, oh, my God, are you?

No, sound. So I think they're more they're like to protect you, not to be like, oh, if you don't do this, you're not like worthy necessarily. But like, again, the culture makes you feel that way because people think the gun lines are like stone, like a commandment, you know? Do you guys know the term like legalism? In what? It's like, so like, this is what we say in like,

evangelical Christianity. It's called legalism. And so basically what it is is it's like taking the heart of the gospel out of it and making it a series of rules, which psychologically makes us feel that we can earn our way to heaven, like earn our way into God's good graces. And like what I feel like evangelical Christianity does so often is like, hey, like you are not good enough and you can never be good enough. That's why we need to like have a relationship and depend on Jesus. Whereas I feel like the guidelines that have been set out kind of create a culture of legalism accidentally or intentioned, I don't know, you know, of, oh my gosh, if I don't follow rule X, Y, Z, then I'm screwed, right? And I think that even your

college story is so funny because in the South, like, how we would experience that is like, okay, I didn't drink in high school because my parents would have killed me, right? So then those kids go to a Southern Party school and they go absolutely ballistic, right? And I sense some of that from like LDS members where it's like so restrictive. Like, hey, give me some Botox and give me that laughing gas.

Like, it is so funny. Like, I'm not judging you at all. I thought it was the funniest thing. I'm like, is that some judgment? No. No. No. Hey, I want the laughing gas in Botox.

I'm pregnant. But here's what I would say. And I mean this so sincerely is that you guys want to do what most people are doing in the open. You're just not allowed to do it because of these guidelines, right? So it's like our hearts for wanting to do these things are the same. It's just one's pretending like you can't. And then the rest are kind of like, oh, it's fine. You know, I'll have a glass of wine. Yeah. Yeah. And I do think it happens along the Mormon culture. And like in

general, because I mean, I have a friend, almost my friends weren't Mormon growing up. It's like, from California. And so like I had a friend too where her mom was very strict. For example, like with what she ate, it was like, she could not have any sugar. Like, you have no sugar in the house, no, so like nothing. But then she would go to school and she'd be in the many machines, like in the canyon, the stars, and different things. The same with the religion where it's like, if your parents are too strict and too, like, to the bone of like the guidelines,

you're going to have your kid rebel. And like, you're going to have your kid probably want to leave the church because they're like, I don't want to fit in this, like, box and I want to like, love Jesus and love God, but I also want, like, life experiences. I don't have a coffee or I want to have this and not feel like a bad person. And I think that's like what we do. It's like, we, you know, again, my parents were never that strict like that.

Like, they were strict, like, for the most part, guideline-wise, like alcohol, like don't have sex marriage, like the poor guidelines. Everything else, it was like, who cares? Like, who cares what people think? It's like that's always been my approach. And I think, too, growing up, like, some things I've learned in the churches, they teach you, like, with your values. If you have friends with similar values, and so if you don't have someone with similar

values, it almost makes that culture of, okay, I'm better than you. So I feel like it kind of has that as well. Right. So maybe that's what the facade is, too, is like, oh, well, my values are better than yours. And I better than you. Well, with that, I feel like everyone, yeah, at my parties, no one, whatever, and went to drinking besides me. I was doing one that was open about it. No, they agree, but they were saying, Taylor made us drink.

All five of us. They're blaming you. She made us. Yeah, sure. There's one area where I feel like these guidelines or restrictions have manifested in a really weird way. And this is a broad generalization, but I think on the topic and. And you're probably, I know what you're probably going to say. So Jordan and I have a lot of friends that are LDS that are women like, just being in the blogging

community, like we've just, it's a lot of results. And let me just say this to you guys, but then all of, because a lot of Danny's followers are LDS too. Let me say to this all, to all of you guys, there's so many things I respect about the LDS church. Like, you guys do family better than anyone. Like I have actually taken tips of how to raise kids from Mormons. And I'm like, oh, that's a really good thing. I'm going to do that.

But the one area is not necessarily drinking. I think that that's played out interesting because there's an underground VYU drinking scene. But it's actually in the topic of like sex. And it's, I don't even know how to explain it. It just feels like it is so restrictive or taboo. There was one episode where someone talks about a lack of just like, we just don't talk about it.

We don't talk about it in the home. There's no birds and the bees talk between kids and their parents. And so where I've seen that kind of manifest in interesting ways is that as Mormon kids grow up and go, into adulthood, they treat sex very differently than any other culture I've been a part of.

Am I right about any of these things? But it feels like the topic of sex in Mormonism is very... Yes, it sucks. It's so... Yeah, I would say so. And again, I think I grew up so differently because my mom's gonna kill me,

but I want to have thunder and under with my mom. It's like Chippendills, but it's not... It's not... It's not racey. Okay. When I was 18, my mom was told me.

She's gonna kill me. It's like a Timendil show. So I think I just wasn't raised that way. So I like, I understand that. But I'm like, it's good because it wasn't necessarily my experience. However, like, I don't think I forgot the sex top. But I, yeah, they'd hear it like in school or something. And my parents, see, we talk about a church.

Like, even like, and like, they read Song of Solomon where like, it's like pretty raunchy in the Bible and be like, this is what gets to happen when you're married. And then, like, yes, of course they were like, don't have a sex before marriage. But like, here's what you get to look forward to. And here's a way to, like, love your husband. But, like, you talk about it. Yeah, they don't talk about it at church, really. Like, it's more just like, don't do it. Like, my parents were always just like, don't have sex to get pregnant.

And, well, yeah, but, yeah. Yeah. Right, though. And that's what's, like, kind of crazy is that, like, you know, all of you had kids so young and were sexually active at such a young age. And I'm not saying that doesn't happen in South. It absolutely does. But it almost makes you, like, want to do more.

Yeah, I almost wonder. It's, again, it's the same analogy of the kid that I knew whose parents wouldn't let him watch PG movies. Yeah. Or, you know, drink. And then he just goes. fuck wild in college. Yeah, you're absolutely right. And I feel like that I've explained that kind of in interviews with the swinging stuff. I feel like, did you think the Mormon had anything to do

with that? And it's like, for me, no, but for them probably, because they're each telling the first person and only person. So we saw in this can of worms when you're a little born in your marriage seven years eight, you're like, my wife's okay with this? Hell yeah. Or like my vice versa, none of us felt wrong because we were all in the same age. And then you add, they've never drained. They never drank the mix. Yeah, my ex-husband's first drink was up 29 years old. And make so many of this can of worms of doing all this. They've never done it. So it's like their college year starting now. Yes. Yeah. And that's how we feel watching the show is like there was a his husband is Jordan. Jesse's. Jesse's husband. And this is not bad. But I think in the hot tub scene,

he was the one pulling out the shots. And he was like, who's doing shots? And he had his like mountain do and his flat. I was like this feels like a high school scene. And that is what we experienced. That's just Jordan. Okay. Okay. That's just Jordan. But in Texas, that is what like a high school kid who brought beer from his mom's pantry would have acted like. And so in so many ways, you guys are such mature, well-rounded adults. But when it comes to the taboo things, there's a certain kind of naivete or immaturity with it. And I will also know it's interesting too from going to BYU is that there's more of like a peer pressure culture. Like if you are doing those things because like I'd go to parties in California, but I didn't drink and people

know like, oh, she's Mormon and she doesn't drink. No one would ever be like, come on, just do it. Like never. I went to BYU, I was going to on drink tonight. The more people will be like, come on, like, just do it, because I think they wanted to feel less guilt than doing it too. They want to feel like, oh, we're all doing it. It's not bad kind of thing, which, like, I get, but, like, I will say, like, it made me worried to raise my kids here because I'm like, because if you do get into that, like, lifestyle,

there's more peer pressure from, like, Mormons here who are doing those things because they want to feel, like, less guilt. They're sure. They want some to do it with them, so they don't feel that way. Totally. California was like, oh, she doesn't drink, like, leave her alone. Yeah, I felt that way in Texas at UT, it was just, like, everybody drank,

but, like, if you didn't, it was like, okay, Like, you just, nobody really thought twice about it because it was just so accessible. Yeah. And I think everybody assumed that you did. And so it wasn't really like a big deal. So yeah, then you hide it more and it becomes like a bigger thing. It's not accessible. Like, I don't know if you know, it's for liquor stores, your clothes at like six or five o'clock.

No. At the Grand America over here, I tried to order, I don't drink anymore, but three years ago I did. And I tried to order a glass of wine, but you can't order wine without food. Yeah. Yeah. And they also were like, you can't leave this area. And I was like, oh. You had to be like 10.

It's like a lot lower. if you were to get like a night's hard way. The percentage is so low compared to other states. Like it's really interesting. But I will say with the sex, I think it's just like the older generation too. Like I don't think my mom ever got the sex talk from her parents.

And so she never educated us. And like I think a couple of us on the cast have dealt with sexual abuse and sexual trauma from a young age because we weren't educated. And so I think it probably played a factor into us also being sexually active at a younger age as well. And so

my kids especially, like I buy all the books about like knowing all your body parts, knowing everything. Like it's something very open with my kids. Yeah, I think so good. Progressive Mormons, like our age is like we are changing that. I guess like we're not like my kids are going to get sex off. You guys talk about it. And we're getting educated. It's just put it that way. So I think that's what's different about like us and like the old generation. It's like we're so much more open about these things. And I would say we're accepting of people, but like the older generation. Do you fear though, here's my question is that do you fear that you guys trying to

change the culture to more progressive in some ways is going to uproot some of the like more conservative ideals that actually were good. And what I'm speaking to mostly is like family, right? And I would also love for y'all's opinions on this because I was pretty shocked at like the conversations in the culture around divorce like from the show. And maybe that was just the show. But I would love to know how you guys are feeling. And it's one thing to let me be clear. I am not judging you, Taylor, for getting a divorce for anyone to get a divorce. But when it was like Layla, Layla, yeah, had her

celebration where it was like a birthday party for her divorce. Now, I don't know her backstory. And then it felt like almost like on the show, there were some cast members who were actually like encouraging divorce, you know? And I don't know if you guys can speak to that because that would be an example for me that I would say, hey, that is progressivism,

like uprooting like conservative ideals that I actually think are very good for the family and shouldering. me. I think there were a lot of conversations on the show that weren't in there where we've said, like, I'm not pro-divorce at all. I think, especially in this day and age, people throw out divorce so easily. And so I'm, I think you should work on it as long as you can. I will say, however, like there are certain circumstances coming from a divorce family. Like, I'm glad my parents got divorced because I think they would have a lot more trauma if they didn't. But I think, yeah, for sure,

in this day and age, I think divorce is just throwing on the table so easily. Yeah, it's funny. You said that her party because my husband and I were talkful. He was not happy about it. Like he went to want to go to be honest. He's like I refused to wear black. It wasn't shown on the screen. Yeah. It was like it was like a funeral for marriage. It was like, like, you should be like celebrating like the end of marriage?

Yeah. He was like not about that. I feel like I agree too. I mean, no hate on her because I think she's just going throughout like her divorce and she wants to do what makes her happy. She has her own story that we don't know about. So we totally understand that. I think yeah, we were kind of like, I don't know if she's celebrating the end of my marriage because it's sad. It's like a family like breaking apart. And she has two kids too.

I think we were similar in that. I think I felt that way too. It's like the Jen situation where like, yeah. Like everyone was like, leave, leave, leave. And it's, I thought that way too. I was like, guys, I was like, yeah, he messed up. He spiraled that. I don't know, Bill.

I'm sorry, I wouldn't have that same. Even if he is like that and he has these issues, you still work on him. And he loves you, absolutely. And I will say, I will say in their situation, I don't think those boundaries had been set yet. I did tell her too. I said, I'm not pro-divorce him.

I don't think you should divorce him just because everyone's like, we hate him, divorce him. Yeah. I think for sure you need to set up those boundaries and say, okay, if you do this again, like it's not a, like, if it's a continuous thing, she's getting verbally abused, like that's going to take a strain and I don't think she should put up within it at all. However, I don't think it should just be like, oh, you need divorce him and then, okay, fine, I'm in. What is those relationship with the husband and with death?

I don't know about our, up-door husband's older. The boyfriends slash Zazette. Yeah, they, oh, just Dakota liked him. I mean, I obviously don't see them behind closed doors. He's a really nice guy. And I can tell how much she loved him. She was like, I just love him so much and he loves me. Like, it doesn't work it out.

Don't listen to anyone. Yeah, no, 100%. So I was like none of us matter. I felt like she was going fear pressured. No, it's hard for me because I was there. You know so much more than we know. I know. You know so much more.

At least what I was reading from the messages that were coming from his mouth. And I was like, yeah, you can see some things. So it's purely based on the messages? Well, it's based on that and it's based on like this is not like, oh, this is the first time it's happening. It's a reoccurring pain. And so it's not like, oh, you just blew up one night. It's like a toxic cycle. And I think for them, it's like I want them to work it out.

I want them to really. I know they're going to therapy and that's great. I think they should, but I think there should be set those boundaries and then do not cross some boundaries. Yeah. I have a hard time with him, I would say. Like, we've hung out with him like in that double date and so I think he was really nice and stuff but I think seeing

I saw certain things before Vegas happened where I was like, no, I don't like this but I didn't like those over my place to interject because I mean, I was closer with Taylor because I felt like more space to interject. And it's different because that's about you and Dakota aren't married and stuff like that I want to interjecting where it's like a marriage and I'm not trying to break up a marriage

right? Exactly. It's like she asked for it. Yeah, she's going to follow it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. But like there were things that I saw before even filmed where she would like confine me and stuff. And I was like, okay, will you just turn up? This is a problem. And there are certain things that are like a problem. And I will say he's one to also throughout the word divorce like this, like up the tongue. It's really toxic. That's toxic.

Like on the show and off the show. Like I've seen it. And so like, but here's a thing is like we obviously want them to work it out. Like we went on like, go get divorced. Like I know Jessica Michaels otherwise. But like we really hope he can change and like they can be happy. I know I think he's taking steps to do that. And he's personally called my husband

and like apologizes for things that he said about us. And like him and Jen were talking to my husband why you guys are all going to apologize. Yeah. She's like I'm still waiting. Yeah. So like I think he is taking steps to work on us. I really hope like through therapy

and through different things that he can change and they can work it out. But at the day in the day, like our church is sending around family. But it does bring that conversation to it too. Like the typical, I think he was born into that typical like a husband's best of. be this way. I feel like he needs to join our Instagram husband.

He has a group of guys. Because I really felt in the show that he was probably struggling the most from an ego, more traditional upbringing. And I have seen this in so many other husbands who have gone through this. What happens is that he was going to be the surgeon that was the provider. And then TikTok blew up. Because that's what his dad was and his grandpa. For sure.

And it's tied into the way that the church has positioned the male and the female. in like the hierarchy and the societal roles. And so he is like up against this path now of like, oh my gosh, my wife is making all this money. Yeah. My people know my wife. I'm probably, I'm a surgeon. I'm not a creative guy.

I feel like I'm just stay at home dad now. And it just affects everyone's egos differently. Yeah. And she said that too before. Like she didn't really find her voice until she got in this group of people, people validating her feelings too, saying, yeah, that's not okay. That's normal.

I felt like. And then he freaked out because she was fighting her voice. So I think it's just a balance. He wasn't used her saying up for herself. I feel like she started doing it more when she hung up us and realized like he'll get in line like that. I believe that when she starts speaking up, he will, I mean, he's got, I don't think of listen to this, but he's going to like pop in a line. But I also would love to have them on the podcast because I feel what he's going through.

And I think that what happened is it wasn't about Chippendales. It was actually about all that. It was about, hey, I'm insecure in our marriage. I'm insecure as a man. Or about the show and the perception of the show. And how it's going to fix my stuff. Unfortunately, the internet's going to think it's all about Chippendales. Yeah.

It's definitely not just about Chippendales, but I definitely think he has some insecurities that he needs to work on him. Yeah. He was very threatened by things like that. And I think she does too. If you just comes to the dark side, it's a great life. Instagram has your life is a great life. What's cool about y'all's careers is they evolved.

Like, Danny and I were creating content for like four years and then we launched Divi and then I was the CEO of that for two years. And like now I don't launch is just the next thing. And you're not, Jordan's not still behind the camera saying, Wow, sweetie. He's not my Chris Jenner anymore. Yes, we went through that phase where he was the Instagram husband and he came to parties and people like, what do you do? And he's like, I work for my wife. But it wasn't, it's not always like that, you know? And I feel like we're already seeing that. Like we're on social media. Now we have a reality show now. I'm doing different things.

Like I know what's going to present at different opportunities. But I think with them for sure, no one's at least not here. I don't think any of us are like, get divorced. No. Because I do want them to work it out. This is like a very unique circumstance too with the show being added into the mix where I do know that they are going to therapy. So he is putting in the word. But I also don't want her to shut down. I feel like she can't reach out to us because we're being too judgment. Of course.

We hate your husband because we don't. What is your relationship with Dakota like these days? Because that was like a point of intention, right? And I get it because I just tell you, it's a hard balance where it's like you love a person so much. You want to be protective over him. And like you're not there all the time. But so yeah, what is that like? I feel like we're like cordial.

We just all went to New York together because he came along, which I will say before. Kim along. I was like, come on. Come in, great. You know, but then, like, when he came, I feel like when we are together, like, vibe in person pretty well. Yeah.

I think for me, the whole root of it was hard because, like, I think in the beginning, I was, like, on his team. Like, there were scenes that were cut, like, where I was on his side with certain, like, arguments and stuff, not between him and Taylor, but, like, Taylor's family

who didn't like him and I was like, you guys should accept him and, like, all these things. But then over time, like, when there was, like, when there was, and she used Taylor would come to me and confide in me. Of course, I'm building up this, like, arsenal things I don't like over time, and I'm like, that he does this, he does this, it's the red flag.

So I have all these things. I think it also stems from my past because I was in an abusive relationship. I know there isn't like that. But there were certain red flags that I saw from my own experiences where I was like, you know, like this isn't good. So yeah, the mix of both. But like I do think like you guys, you know, I don't know. I can't speak to right now. I don't know what's going on. But like things, yeah. It did get better from like when they were originally dating, I would say like progression wise. is from what I saw. So it's like, I feel like we're cordial and I'm also like not trying to like, you know, separate them.

Yeah. Which some people just think that's all we're going to go. It's like at the end of the day, we've gone our girls back. It's hard for us to bite our tongue when we see things that we don't like. It is so hard to bite my tongue with like even the exact situation too or like anything.

I'm like, oh. But like, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Let's talk about it. Yeah. Is that how you feel? Well, so Taylor handles criticism very well. She does.

Even though she doesn't take the advice, it's like she wants to hear it because I feel like the difference between her and Whitney is that Taylor wants to take accountability and she wants to learn from her mistakes even though like it might take a while. And she was asking for advice. So I was like, Taylor, you need to do this, this and this. Like I feel like most of the time. But you were doing that too. Sometimes because I feel like the gates were open, right? Yeah. I was like I felt comfortable enough to do it.

But it's just because like at the end of the day, I care too much. And that's the problem, which is I want my friends to be happy. And that's what, like, I ultimately want, like, all my friends' happiness. And so I feel like I feel it, like, for them when they're going through it. And I just want to, like, help so bad. But sometimes, I guess it looks fine. It also looks too. Just for Macy.

Oh, yeah. I didn't know a good friend. I mean, I think she's in the past. And no relationships is perfect. So we're all going to just like, if there's something that you see, then it's just being a good friend bringing it out. Yeah. How is it also relationship with Whitney these days?

Not much there right now. The relationship in the room. So she's kind of just like. like, out of the mom's at? Like, she, but I don't know. That's the thing.

We don't know. This is the first time. Yeah. I don't know what she's at. No one's heard from her or anything. She kind of like ghosted everybody. So like I don't, we don't even know.

Like, I hope she's doing well. But like, yeah, like I would say we're cordial. But I don't know if I would say like. It's not hard when people victimize themselves. And they might like, like there's like this.

What is it? Dissociation. Like people need to do that sometimes. And just like. step out of this situation. That's what she's out. Nikaela has strong. She wants to believe that she's doing,

but I don't think that's what she's doing. No? No. I think she's out of control and is spiraling a little bit. But she really likes to be in control. I feel like when she's not a control, she's like, I'm going to change my hair. I'm going to move.

I'm going to do this. I'm going to leave a group chat. And I feel like that's very apparent. I mean, it's happened. It just happened the other day again. I was like, are you still leaving group chats? Jordan. That was my thing.

You'd be watching. Yeah. Like yelling at the TV. I'd be like, Whitney, you're just trying to run from the problems here. And that's what the difficult one. A farm's not going to help you. Just talk to your friends. That's it's difficult too.

Because like watching the behind the scenes too and like her leaving the group chat because I really don't understand the mental state of how things are going on in her head. But like when she left the group chat and then she's talking to her husband saying, I left the group chat. But it's not because I want people to chase me. But like why are they calling Macy? They could call me. Yeah.

But I don't want them to call me. And then she's talking to Jesse. Why are they calling Macy? Like if my friend left a group chat, I would call them. And I'm like, she doesn't voice, it's almost like a game with her.

Like, is she like the, it's a test, I would say. She does all these tests and it's, yeah, it's exhausting.

Yeah. Then they were seen. Yeah. What is the biggest misconception or misperception from the show that you feel like

was casted on each one of y'all? Well, I think that we're not all swingers. Yeah. Like when people saw the trailer, they're like, oh,

people think all of them are swinging? Yeah. Yeah. But like, the show, no. No, the show. And the actual show itself. Or if people talk about it, they probably just say, oh, it's about these girls that's me. I think people all seem to realize even, like, when it comes to the show, that, like, it's a reality show. Yeah. So there are certain things that I sell now, I'm like, I'm taking a little bit out of context there, but, you know.

Like, so you're going to have that here. But for the most part, like, everything that happened to the show, like, was shocking to me because it was, like, real. And I was like, what is going on here? Like, I was, like, genuinely so confused. Yeah. But I think a lot of people had resentment deep down for certain people who had issues, but they had never voiced it and it all came out on the show. Yeah. No, literally. But I think for the most part, most of us have pretty thick skin. I wouldn't say everyone in the show does. Like obviously not Whitney. Like to where you could take that princess and like how can I change any better or friendship, but not everyone takes that approach and not everyone can handle that. Yeah. It takes certain personalities. So you handed out like, did me for example. Like she thought she got like shit on the night before, right? And like, yeah, she did in some circumstances. But she can take that and like.

fix the problem and be like, let's be friends again. Like, let's work it out. And some people obviously then do that, you know? So I know we're kind of like wrapping up. One of the last questions is for like season two, how do you guys allow more people into the mom talk group? Or like, how do people join the mom talk group? I'm not asking for personal.

Mom talk isn't a group. It's a state of mind. No, like the mom talk group on season two. I say, oh no. Are you all going to allow more to go today? It wouldn't be up to. Danny's like, listen, I don't live in Utah, but can I go in. Like, I take my dance.

No, no, no. No, I can't dance. I can't dance. And, like, I love us. We can't dance. No. I think in the end and they're not really up to us. When it comes to mom talking to show, like, we don't have as much say as people think.

And so if they wanted to add someone, and we were like, we don't want them to, they still do it. Yeah, they know what to do it. Can you say if there would be new, right, you're probably not allowed to say this. If there's going to be new people on no idea. Oh, yeah. We have no idea. We have no idea. No idea for season or if season two.

Sure, we'll get a couple of curveballs. And if we do, it's going to be like when we start filming, if I want to tell us. Yeah, how like we serve. It would be like your ideal person you'd want to join Mom Talk, your group. Well, so hard to say is there's so many influencers in Utah. Like, there's so many. I know you're like favorite, though. You're all joined.

I really don't have any friends. I was like, I'm not kidding. Like, when we had our premiere, I was like, how are you guys inviting 70 people? I invited like my two sisters. Only one of them showed up. I was like, I guess, no. people. I don't think we'd want any.

But I see who everyone wants is Miranda. Come on, for sure. Oh, from the, okay, yeah, yeah. I think she was also such a big part of Monop. There's a lot left on said there. I think if they were to pick anyone, I think it'll be her. That was my theory. I can't say she would agree to it.

We don't even know if there's a C.P. Yeah. But if we were to guess, I'd probably be. I feel like it would be dumb if she did agree to it. Because I feel like people are going on stuff being like, oh, I was off with the show, but like I'm too good for it. So I'm not going to do it. and then they're offered the opportunity to actually do it.

And they're like, yeah, I'm going to do it. Yeah. So I feel like I have hard feelings towards that way towards people that do that. Yeah. And I think too, like even if it's like, oh, I love this person, it doesn't mean I think there's certain personalities that maybe are not meant for reality too. So even if we love like a certain influence or whatever, it's still like you don't know how it would be in reality. It's how to you're not meant for this person. You have to have thick skin.

And like you can be sensitive, but I feel like the ones who are more sensitive have a lot harder time. Yeah. So there was like one group of people, and I think this is like a really good question to end on. There was like a group of people who I think we talked to before this episode and that followed D&E who were also LDS that were females, just like you guys, who were probably struggling with a lot of the same things that you guys have struggled with within the culture and in the church. Yeah. Would you say to those females in the LDS community who are in the church or thinking about leaving,

you know, yeah, I would just leave with that. I mean, I would say just do whatever makes you happy. Like, whatever makes you feel closest to God in Christ, like whether that's being Mormon or not, you know? Like, for me, it's like being Mormon is like, I don't follow every single guideline to a T. I mainly go off like my relationship with God and Jesus and how I'm as a person, am I a good person,

am I helping my neighbor? Am I like being kind to people? And I think that's what matters the most. I don't think people need to be like, oh, I can't be Mormon if I'm like, do this. It's because you can't. And like, the culture may make you think otherwise, but it's not true.

Yeah. That's a good answer. Oh, we know. Yeah. I want to know from everyone. I don't know. I haven't been active in the church for a long time. So I would say the same.

Just like whatever you feel like is making you the most authentic version of yourself, like go on with that, which is easier said than done. Like, with getting hate and like, just be yourself. Like, it doesn't really matter what people think. And it is easier said than done. But I think it's just a conscious action of telling yourself that over and over again. So, yeah. Yeah, I swallowed down the wrong pipe.

But with that, the same. Like our message we wanted to share with everyone is like, we wanted to show all different dynamics of how we live being warmer, like from someone that was born and raised and left. And then, sorry. I'm like, we'll clip it as a cry. She's like, is that a CGI tear? But yeah, born and raised, they left.

And then you have like the middle people and then you have someone very devout. And so we were wanting to share that so many different ways. and there's not one way. And if that was the message we wanted, yeah, yeah, give. And that's really good.

And, like, the hard conversations were having, like I said, I hope it just sparks more conversation and what changed. You guys heard from the church?

No, no. They put a statement out like before the show came out. But I think it was out of fear because, like, everyone was freaking out but they had to put one out.

And it was about our show and a movie that's coming out. It was like a horror movie with the missionaries in it? Like, scary. I think they kidnapped the mission. I don't even know.

But I think, and there's a statement for like both of the things, you know? I mean, like, can come to us, like, if you want, like, the information on the church, which I agree. It's like, yeah, it's like, don't, we're not trying to, like, speak for the church.

However, if you are curious, yeah, go to, like, the church's website. Yeah. You guys are still allowed in and allowed to... You guys weren't going to burst into planes. You all that church is. That's all good. So, I was good.

Where can people find you guys? Yeah, I'm at Macy Neely on Instagram and TikTok. Andrew, wait, your brand. Oh, yeah. Oh, my. Oh, my. Oh, yay. Hey!

Guys, I have this for you. This is so scary that. I just have. Guys, this is Baby Mama. We're at BabyMelon. Oh,

on Instagram and T-Tacoc. Those are the post-partum gummies. What does this help with? That helps with, like, water attention, bloating hormones. Oh, my breath smells. I know, literally.

Yes. That one tastes to best to me, too. And then these are pregnancy gummies in a normal prenatal, but it has raspberry leaves in it. So it's supposed to help with your body. It's for birth.

Oh, Tome the uterus. Oh, Tom it. And they're all like vegan, non-gumum, gluten-free, Nordificial color sweetener. You take one a day? Two.

They have like the best texture. They're like candy. I'm like, you like, you like, they're like candy. Like, I know,

it's like candy, but it's pretty, no, it tastes like candy. Yeah. They're amazing. Disgusting prenatals, too, I will say. And I get so sick

when I take prenatal. Me too or I'm so nauseous and I can follow them. It's nice to have something that's not. And I made Michaela like flavor test before me even.

They're really good. Yeah. We got this. Gross ones. They're like sour sour ban. They had like had to re-formulate

because there was one really gross one and I had to completely reformulate the flavor to the this is not. It's always hard being her friend to I'm like,

do you want me like this? You know, they're really good. But the text was always good. Thank you so much. That's awesome. That's great. It's like not having a physical product.

I'm sure you know. Like it's such a different like so different. So yeah, it's good. I'm glad I got to launch you on the show. Yeah. That's awesome.

Thanks. We're going to find you. Oh, I was like, what we're talking about? I'm at Michaela underscore, Matt, M-A-T-T, on Instagram, and then I think it's just Michaela Matthew. And we'll put it all in, like, the show notes. Perfect.

Mine is just Taylor Frankie Pall. Oh, are we supposed to look there? Yeah, looking right in the eye. I didn't say it over there. Literally, thank you all so much for coming. Honestly, like, these are some amazing conversations. Y'all are some of the most inspirational people that I've ever talked to in this podcast,

and you know are so young and have already lived so much life, I know that just through your stories, you're changing people's lives. I know it really are. Well, thank you for having to you. It's really fun. Yeah, you're amazing.

Okay. We'll talk to the next episode. Bye. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show

may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.