De-Influenced with Dani + Jordan - De-Influencing the Bachelor, Social Media & Marriage: Matt James and Rachael Kirkconnell

Episode Date: October 11, 2024

Happy THURSDAY! We are SO pumped about this week’s guests – seriously, two of the kindest humans around. Matt James and Rachael Kirkconnell joined us, and we were beyond excited that they wanted to be De-Influenced! In this episode, we cover everything! From behind-the-scenes Bachelor drama, their very public breakup, the impact of social media on their relationship, and… of course, we couldn’t resist asking about potential wedding bells in their future! Matt and Rachael open up about the challenges they’ve faced and how they’ve worked through them. It was such an honest, heartfelt conversation, and we know you're going to LOVE it as much as we did! Be sure to follow these two for all their food, influencing and adorable couple content: Matt James: Instagram TikTok YouTube Rachael Kirkconnell: Instagram TikTok Also, don’t forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel, @deinfluencedpodcast, and catch us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your De-Influenced fix! Stay connected with us on Instagram and TikTok @deinfluencedpodcast, and thank you for being part of this journey. Lastly, we talk about Florida a little bit in this podcast and it doesn't go unnoticed that Hurricane Milton's landfall coincides with the release of this episode and while many people are still recovering from Hurricane Helene. First and foremost, our thoughts and prayers are with those who have been or will be impacted. We’re praying for your safety, but we also know how badly resources are and will be needed. This is why we felt it necessary not only to donate to some of the organizations that will help those impacted, but to share the website we are using to find these organizations with our listeners as well: Hurricane Recovery Resources If you’re in a position to donate or are looking to get involved we encourage you to click the link below. Stay safe De-Influencers. Visit carawayhome.com/DANI for up to 20% off your next purchase Go to dreamlandbabyco.com and use code DANI for the buy one get one free deal at checkout. Go to thrivemarket.com/dani for 30% off your first order, plus a FREE $60 gift!

The following podcast is a dear media production. Hello, and welcome back to your favorite podcast. D-influence. Ooh, that was probably our best intro yet. That's good. Y'all nailed it. Y'all are going to freak when you see who we have on the podcast today. We are so excited to introduce y'all to our guests on this week's episode.

They're the kindest humans, and we're so looking forward to de-implenancing these food bloggers and travel connoisseurs. Today we have the season 25 Bachelor, Matt James, and his season. winner and current girlfriend, Rachel Kirkconnell, joining us today. Welcome to the De-Inflints podcast. Okay. Also, really fast. So I first met Matt at the MLB All-Star Celebrity Baseball Game. I've never been more nervous for anything in my entire life. I don't know why I just panicked the entire week. I was, I was like excited for it. No, I was. But then I got pregnant. So I committed to playing in that game. And then I got pregnant and I was so sick. So I was like softball. I have like horrible

PTSD from playing in sixth grade. I got black guys like this whole thing. Then I got shingles in six grade. It was like, it was horrible. I know. It's horrible. And I was so nervous. And y'all, Matt was the sweetest person to me that entire day. And I don't even think that you knew that you were like saving my life that day. But he'd come up to me like, hey, how you doing? You're doing good? I'm like, oh, thank God. He asked me that because I'm like so. I just, nervous right now. I have a different perspective on that game because Matt, I wonder why you didn't defend my honor when T.O. hit on my pregnant of life, Danny. No, he doesn't even know about that. You just, you let it happen. No, he didn't depend me. Wait, who hit on you? No, okay. He totally did.

No, stop. 100%. This is loose to me. It better be. I would have had your back. Yeah. Matt was not there yet. I was walking in and I was like, it's so funny because the other team, I had like really vived with a lot of the people on that other team. I was, you know what's funny about that? I was the perfect team. I felt like would have been that whole team plus Danny and I. All of our friends are on that team.

Everyone. You guys were like wanting the other team. That was their friend. Let me tell you. Besides Matt, I had no one to talk to. I tried to talk to Tiffany Haddish, but I was so nervous. I couldn't talk to her. Like she was so sweet.

She's in her own world. It's not her fault. Yeah. You know. But anyway. Did you see Danny trying to warm up and no one wanted to warm up with her? So we were watching from like the nose fleet section. I played you for that.

Listen. Listen. What were you doing? You were playing with Tiffany. And Danny's defense, our entire team. Like taking it really serious. Yes. Of course.

Even the other female on our team was like like a softball player. Like she was. Oh, Mandy. Yes. She was like amazing. So they were only there to win. Yeah. They were not there for any other reason.

They didn't even need to like warm up. Yeah. You know, I'm like, I haven't thrown a softball since sixth grade since I had shingles. Wait, could we, you just passing over, you had singles. How did you get singles? Yeah. Have you ever had shingles? No.

Well, let me tell you. My mom has shingles. Yeah. Yeah. So, right? Like, you're usually only supposed to get shingles when you're older. But you can get shingles when you are really physically stressed. Oh my God.

I'm screwed. And I know, like, like, when you are like stressed to like next level. And if you had a, uh, like, a light case. the chicken pox as like a baby, which I did have a light case that I had, you know, anyway. So it was like dormant in my body. Yeah. And then I started playing softball when I was in sick. And I was so stressed with the games.

I would just sit in my room and just like have anxiety that I gave myself shingles. No sixth graders should be that stress to where you get shingles. And so, and the MLB comes knocking on my door. And they're like, you want to play softball? And I'm like, oh, Lord, please help me. She was stressed for like two weeks before that game. Oh my God. She didn't even see.

But now are you so happy you did that. Yeah, I'm really proud of myself because I did like, I did. I did hit the ball. Heck yeah, you did. So, you know, we scored one time. Yeah, I do. It's scared. But, but yeah, did you have fun?

I had a blast. I wouldn't have had fun if I wouldn't have got on base, though. Like, yeah. My first at bat, I completely pop-filed the ball and I got out. And the second time up, like the game's on the line. And I'm like, I got to get on base. So getting on base, you got on base. You scored?

Yeah, it feels good. It feels good. Are you really competitive? Yeah. I'm looking at Rachel right now. Extremely. Do you guys know the Enigram? Do you know what the Enigram is?

No, what's that? It's like a personality test. Oh, yes. I have no idea what I am. You don't know what you are? No, because sometimes like I used to read them a lot on Instagram, like when all of those like horoscope and all those pages would post them. And I swear I'd read like out of all, how many are there nine?

Yeah, nine. Nine. Yeah, I'd be like I'm four of these. Like I don't know. I have to take the test. Yeah. Because I like related to so many. Yeah.

You know. But you're both competitive. Yeah. Together, too, like against each other. Against each other. Of course. And I get upset, though, because I'm like, why can't we ever be on like the same team? Because I feel like we'd be unstoppable if we were together.

But he likes competing against one another. And I don't. But I think it's because he enjoys beating me. But I think like you're kind of a sore loser. Everything we can play. Like chess? Well, I can't play chess. I enjoy it because it happens so infrequently, though.

It's not like I beat her at everything. Like when I get one, though, when I get one up, I like, you know. Now, I just a reminder of it. Well, the biggest thing right now is Mario Kart. He hasn't beat me in it yet. That's hilarious. And I think that really bothers him. Not on N-664, but like, we do it on the Switch.

Nintendo Switch. Okay, yeah. I'm so old, I just go to N-64. Oh, no. Throwback. No, we're there too, yeah. So, but you run a lot, too. I run every day.

You have so many questions. Yeah, like, so when did you start running? When did you get into that? I would say after I ran casually, and then there, There was a marathon. I try to do the marathon every year in New York. A marathon. No, he does like three a year. Are you serious? It's just something the focus your instruction your time.

Yeah. Yeah, tell us. I think that he was always a really competitive person in his life always had a sport. Yeah. And now this is his sport. So like it was basketball and football. And then it was football for a while, just football, right? And then now it's just running and competing.

But you're really just competing against yourself. I'll say. Yeah, that's why I'm so. So I used to be a big runner too. Danny? You know, let me say something. I set the record in the 400 meter dash in my high school. You're lying.

That was my race. Was it? What'd you run? Well, probably compared to what you ran. I ran 58. Yeah, but you're also half of his size. That's great. Girls, it was good.

I mean, they probably beat the record now. But yeah, I ran 400. And then I'm a fun fact. Then I got really into running, but I never did a full. I used to do like seven or eight halves every year because I like the half because you can like really compete and go fast. The marathon too I was just like always worried about I feel like anytime I got to like 18, 20 miles I started like getting hurt.

My knees would hurt and then I felt like I'd take so much time off. I was like, is this even really worth it? Yeah. But that would be now that I've like had two babies, I'm like I'm so out of shape now. But it's it's so good like mentally. It's all my good ideas. Everything that I think like it's all when I'm running. Because you're by yourself and you're so much time to think, right?

Yeah, that's true. Do you run to? No, I don't. I can't. I think when I was in cheerleading, we'd always have to warm up with running. I would get, like, such bad cramps after, like, a mile. I know that ever said. In, like, my best shape ever, I could never.

And, you know, he, like doesn't believe in that. He's like, I see 80-year-olds run marathons. Like, you just have to try. So you run through the cramps, right? You got to run through the cramps, right? You got to run through the crows. But mine's not even like a, like a Charlie horse or anything. like it seriously feels like there's a knife.

Yeah. And I'm like how I can't. And it doesn't get any better. Like it doesn't go away. It just gets worse and worse. And I'm like, I can't even walk right now. Like I have to like lay down.

I'm so empathize with you. Danny's dream is for us to like run together and I'm like, oh, I'm sure has this too. Can we do like a new dream? Well, I'm just not into it. I'm like, let's me in the middle.

How many miles a day do you run? I would say on average I run like, I would say average is out to eight. Eight miles. But do you, Do you count your macros or like your calories? You have to because you probably lose too much weight. That's what I was wondering is like do you, how many calories do you eat in day?

I wouldn't say you count them, but he's probably eating like three to four thousand calories. There's so many calories. I think just his shake after his run is probably a thousand calories. Okay, but you actually have to watch it and like because you could under eat and then you're losing all this weight, right? Yeah. So last year when I ran the marathon, I actually lost 10 pounds.

And I was eating like a donkey. Like there's nothing I wouldn't eat. Rachel can attest to that. He can eat. That's the good thing about it is he can eat anything. Yeah. And meanwhile, I can't. But I like love food so much.

So I'm trying to keep up. But like we'll order like, I don't know, two pizzas and I'll eat like two to three slices. And then he'll have the other like 300. You know. So when everyone's always asking it's like, how do you guys eat? Exactly. And I hop in an Uber. That's exactly what happens.

He gets on a bike and I get an Uber. But yeah, I think that's like the biggest question people ask us is like how are we not severely overweight with how much we eat. But for me, it's like I'm not eating as much as him. Because he eats it off before you can get a chance. Yeah, like we'll order like, you know, four bowls of pasta at Italian and I'll have like, I won't even finish one. And he'll eat the other three and a half, you know. But it works perfectly. Yeah, it works out.

Yeah. How tall are you? I was like six five. Six five. So was it like that when you were playing sports? Because you played football in college. Yeah. So when I was in college, I got up to like 265.

What? And I was eating like. I've seen so many pictures of this man one second. He's like in high school. He's six, five and a hundred pounds. Yeah. Like so skinny. And then I'll never forget that picture you showed me.

I think it was after your junior year when you spent that summer with Mike. Oh yeah. I'll have to send you all that. She looks like he's 300 pounds, but he's like jacked. You know, I'm like, who is that? Because it's how your face changes. What did you play college football? Wake Forest.

Okay. Yeah. Nice. So yeah, it's just like it's hard to transition from like your sport and being that athlete and eating like that and training like that. And then when you're done training like that to stop eating like that, that's why you see a lot of these athletes gain a bunch of weight just because they don't know how to manage. Well, you know, when I was playing, I'd get two burritos at at Chipotle. And it wasn't like you're gorging yourself. That was just like replacing the calories.

and like just you needed that fuel. Did you go through like a, I think a lot of athletes, college and professionally go through kind of a depression after it's over because it's just a totally different lifestyle. Like you're used to this routine and then it's like, oh wait,

I don't get to go to this cafeteria and they feed me all this food. I got to do all this stuff now on my own. Did you go through that season? You know what's interesting about that? When I chose to play football Wake Forest, I didn't realize that the students at Wake weren't going there to watch me play football.

You know, I thought everyone at wake. Right? You know, you think that like the world revolves around you as a young athlete. But that was the most humbling and best thing that could have happened for me because you had to determine yourself worth on something outside of football because no one cared. It's like, oh, you're on the football team? Oh, nice, nice. It's like everyone's there to be a lawyer, a doctor, and finance.

You're like, what else? Yeah. So you really had to be introspective. and be like, yeah, who am I? Like, I started to like figure that out in college so that, you know, when it was ultimately over, I had all these other things that like defined who I was outside of football. That's really really good because I think a lot of, we went to UT and those athletes are like worshiped. Yeah, they're God. And that's got to be really hard when you graduate. And it's like, but wait, what am I going to do with my life? And no one cares anymore. Okay, so I want to talk more about

both of y'all's like upbringing. Like, what was your childhood like, both of you all? I would say I had a very normal childhood. I grew up in North Georgia and my parents are still together. It was like a, you know, one family household or two-parent household. And it was very, my parents both worked a lot, especially my mom. But somehow she, even through working like eight to five every single day, she still was such a good mom. When I think about it, I'm like, what did my dad do? because, and not in a mean way, but she was always still taking us to all of our

appointments, you know, doctors, dentists, gymnastics practice, cheerleading. She was always the one to take us to all of our competitions on the weekends. And I guess, I'll say this, I do have a little brother. He's only, oh my God, how old is he now, 17? But he's 10 years younger than me. So I guess my dad would hang out with him, take care of him while my mom was taking care of me and my little sister. But yeah, she was like just such a force in the household because she was like the one bringing home all the bacon but then also like still being mom. Wow.

But yeah, other than that, I would say like I grew up in a very, you know, normal home, I would say. I think like now I'm at that point in my life where every single thing that is wrong with me or like the way I think about things, I'm like, all right, what happened to my childhood? You know? We all go through that era. Yeah. But yeah, no, it was like it was a very, when I look at it. back on my childhood, I miss it. Like, I'm a very nostalgic person. And I think it's because I had such a fun childhood and upbringing and so much fun in like middle school and high school. Yeah.

Yeah, just like that typical. Are you still close with your parents, your siblings? No, I mean, he The closest. Really? Well, he probably, I don't know how he actually feels about it, but I'm like always just wanting to be home now. Because I have like a spot in Georgia. At first, it was just like me always staying at my parents' place when we weren't traveling. And then I finally was like, I can't live here anymore because it was just too much. Stuff-wise and just like space and everything and like me pushing 30. I'm like, okay, it's time, you know? But I'm still only like, what, 25 minutes from them.

And I'm like always wanting to go over there. Mostly to see my sister. I'm obsessed with her. She's like my best friend and my animals love the animals. I'm like, I just need to go over the house and go play with the dog. Sorry. Oh, that's so sweet. But, no, but I do love, you know, being close and being able to go see them like whenever

I can. For sure. I would say I'm an... He's extroverted. Yeah, 1,000. I would say I'm an extroverted introvert. So, like, when I'm around my people, like my close friends, very comfortable. But if I'm in a situation, like, you know, some of the fun things we get to do, he's having a blast.

I'm like trying not to throw up when we first, you know, walk into whatever it is. Totally. And... So you probably loved reality TV. I just can't believe I did that. You're like, you're like made for that. Yeah. When I look back, I'm like, who was that person?

I can't believe I did that. I always tell Matt, like, I can't believe I didn't throw up on you when I walked out of the limo. And I can't believe like I, like, actually sat there and could speak because it was like this, but even like take this times 100. There were like crane lights moving around, the cameras moving around. There were probably like at least 50 people right on set, like, you know, 25. feet from you the first night. So it's definitely not like this intimate meeting. Yeah. And I mean, it really does feel like you're meeting and having this personal conversation in front of a live audience, you know? Wow. And so I yeah, exactly. I just can't believe I even remembered my name.

Yeah. So that was like definitely the thing that put me out of my comfort zone the most. Like I've ever done my life. Yeah. But we should be proud. Yeah. It's very cool. I remember feeling so proud of myself while I was there. Because like even on the group dates and stuff, we'd be doing such ridiculous things. And I would just send it. Yeah, I would just tell myself like, whatever. Like, you have to because I feel like if you, like the very first group date we did was that crazy flag football game. Yeah, you were balling. And I just sent it.

Wow. And that was so not like me. Yeah. But I think that might have been the competitive side. Like that coming out. Maybe it was good that it was like the first thing was like a sportish thing. Your genuine self. Yeah.

Yeah. That's so fun. Well, I just wanted to win. I think that's really what it was. But yeah, I would say it was like probably more like a boring or a normal childhood than you had, I would say. Yeah. Yeah, I was crazy. You were like you were like a wild kid?

Wild. Really? Yeah. And my mom was a single parent. So like my dad and mom got divorced like before I could remember. So it was just myself and my older brother. And like just imagine like two young boys with like hell of energy just destroying the house. getting kicked out of class.

Where? What city? Oh, this is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Raleigh, okay. Yeah. Because his mom, like, she was off working. Like, she probably was, that was her life, was just trying to provide for you. Single mom, that's like so hard.

Yeah. She's just surviving. She's a superhero. Yeah. She's like, all right, I'm gone. Don't burn it down. Take care of each other. Take care of each other.

Take care of your own. What's the age gap between you and your brother? He's two years older than me. Okay. So, like, it would be like, we'd be in elementary school together, middle school, high. So we did everything together. boards, everything. But I would say that since we were so crazy from like elementary school

to middle school, I don't know if this was anyone else's experience, but like when you get to high school, there's like crazier people than you. So like when I got to high school. Yeah, but you were probably instigated by those crazy. Well, it like mellowed me out. I was like, I'm like, dang. Like, wow. Like it was all out of me. So like I feel like the older I've gotten, the more like I've chilled out. Whereas like a lot of going to like a Wake Forest, it's a prize. private school. I'd only ever gone to public school. So like it was a reverse situation where like in public school, you know, we're, we're TP in houses. We have some crazy story. Like, do you have any funny stories you can tell us? There was one story. This is actually pretty crazy. This is just to

attest to the childhood. So there is, I'm not going to name any names, but there was someone that we went to high school with that just we just butted heads with in high school. We're now good friends, but at the time, like, couldn't stand each other. He's like, his name is Tyler Cameron. I hate that guy. So every Friday night, we would stay over at my buddy's house who lived in her neighborhood and we'd try to figure out ways to terrorize her house. So like we'd pull together all of our resources and come up with like $17 and go buy like

$17 worth of toilet paper. Which is a lot. And this one night, my buddy who has a Jeep was like, yeah, we should go pick up a goat. Like, I drove by this barn and there was all these animals outside. So we went and stole a goat and we tied the goat to, we tied the goat to like the front door post area. And mind you, this isn't like 2008. Like this is a long time ago. And like we banged on the door. And then we took off running. And this other guy who was with us didn't know that they weren't in on it. So he just kind of hung around. He got there late. And they came outside. The house is tepeeed. The goats there. And we ultimately

got caught because of this guy. So we had to come back. Clean it up. Pick up the goat. Pick up the goat. He's like, come back here. Pick up this goat. We're like, put the goat back in the Jeep.

But that was a typical Saturday night. Yeah. Honestly, that was my typical Saturday night too. I'm not going to lie. Yeah, just like being a high school kid. It's a shame like the PETA activist. They kind of ruined our childhood. I can't do that stuff anymore.

We used to have the good old days. Yeah. I just think about like he has so many stories like that. And now that I'm older, I'm like, you're not even doing anything to the girl, it's her parents that have to deal with it. You know, it's like not her house. Well, we wrapped people all the time and my mom would call their parents and tell them. Like, and we didn't know.

Like, sorry, T.P. We call it. We called it rapping too. Yeah. It's like a Texas thing. We called it rapping. And I mean, we were out there every weekend. In fact, so bad, like my brother ended up getting caught by the cops.

Yeah. And being shot with a rubber bullet one night. No. Yeah. He got caught by the cop. Like, we were like big into Teeing, wrapping, whatever. So like that was been, but yeah, but my mom would always call them because it was always the thing with us. So it's like we always did it to like boys that we liked. Yeah. You know, and we get their attention.

To get their attention or just mess with it. I was always like, man, why is no one wrapping my house? I don't understand. What am I doing wrong? It was like a cool thing to be wrapped, you know. Yeah. That's hilarious. So are you still close with your brother then? Yeah, we're really close. He actually just moved out to California. It's been his dream to get to the West Coast. and he's out there now so hopefully Is he married or single? He's dating but I guess he Are you going to put him on a show?

You know he did come on the show And we brought him on the show And me and my brother couldn't be more opposite Like he wouldn't like to be on the show Just because he wouldn't like to be told what to do And he would just want to be in his own Not that you were told what to do But you have to call the structure

Yeah They'd be like no yeah We gotta get a clip of him from the show so that you could understand. Insert it. Like he, my brother came with like gold grills in the top and bottom of his mouth. Like just like very himself like wasn't going to be deterred by like where we were going

into. He just was like, like this is me. This is how I'm showing up. You got to respect it though. Yeah. Well, because he was being so himself when you think about the audience. Remember the list of questions for you? Yes.

So that's another thing like he, I feel like he did that to try and stay on track. Yeah, he did. But that was probably all him. But, like, instead of just having conversation, he just had a list of questions and he just went down the quick. Like, I felt like I was being interviewed. You know, yeah. I'm like, I hope I got job.

You know? How funny. But, like, it's so funny to think about that now because, you know, it's so easy to chat. To talk about now. Yeah. But can I ask you a more, like, deep question? Sure. So, growing up with your parents' divorce, how do you think that affected your dating life?

and then also going on the show. Great question, Danny. That's a great question. From a dating life perspective, I would say that seeing how he interacted with other women, I didn't want to ever following his footsteps in that regard. And to the point where I didn't even really have that many relationships growing up, it wasn't until my junior senior year high school.

I had my first serious girlfriend. And it's not because I was like hooking up with a bunch of people. it was just like I was busy and it like wasn't prioritized and like had a sour taste in my mouth from their relationship. And then when it came to being on the show, it just seemed like the perfect opportunity to like have a clean slate of, you know, experiencing dating in the most like wholesome way I thought possible. Having had my roommate at the time, Tyler Cameron just had come off being on Hannah Brown's Bachelorette season. Oh, that's how you got on the show. Yeah, yeah.

That's right. Yeah. So we played football together at Wake Forest. Yeah. That's how. Yeah. Okay. Now I remember.

Tyler and I played football together. He moved into my apartment in New York and we were living together. He leaves for the backstaret. This is, this is before. Yeah. Well, he comes back to that same apartment right after. Tyler. Yeah.

Start dating Gigi with $9. I remember that. That's what I was trying to say. That's the best. Wow. So you got on this show from Tyler. Were you like 100% like, I want to do. do this. This makes sense for like where I'm at or were you like, okay, next adventure? No. So like,

I actually said no the first time. Like just because I had, I didn't think that you could do both. I didn't think you could go on a show like that and then also have a normal life. Because I saw for Tyler, like, you know, he went on the show. He proposed and that's not something I would have ever had the cards for Tyler, just growing up with them. And like, not that he wasn't capable of that. It sped things up. Yeah. It sped things up. And it changed them. Like, if he got to a place where he felt comfortable enough to do that, I'm like, dang, like, maybe this is something that, like, I could actually find someone that I could see myself with. And also, before going on the show, I just was so poor living in New York City.

I just, I literally couldn't afford to date. What were you doing? Like, were you working? I was working at CBRE, commercial real estate firm as a researcher. So, like, I supported office, office brokers in New York City. So, like, I was adjacent to all the money, but I wasn't making any of it. And, like, I just, dating is expensive. Like, yeah.

So, like, the few dates I would go on in New York City, it was like, had to be a happy hour. It's like half-priced drinks or like appetizers or something. Everyone's like, why do we have to meet at 530? I'm like, that's when I get off work. Yeah. Because I'm grinding at work. I'm in commercial real estate. Exactly.

That's like, I'm in bed by 8 p.m. Like, this is the only time of work. Yeah. Yeah. And as the date unfolds, like, oh, so you're not a. broker. Oh, you're doing it. Oh, okay. Nice to meet you. I'm off. Right, out of there. But I went to Wake Forest. Right. I'm an analyst. Right. Wait, so then why go to, why did you move or go to Wake Forest and then move to New York? Wake Forest was the best academic school that I was offered a scholarship to. And it was close to home.

My mom could come to the games. My brother could come to the games. And it didn't matter because I was going to obviously be in the NFL and I was going to make a lot of money. So, but as the reality of like, injuries and life set in. I'm like, I'm so happy that I'm at Wake. And the people that I met there and the relationships I formed allowed me opportunities to go to these big time cities where I had friends and connections to have opportunities like that at CBR and banks and stuff like that. You started where in Pittsburgh, though, right? Yeah, that was the only place I could get a job was in Pittsburgh. Yeah, he started in Pittsburgh. And then I feel like you said you went up to the city one weekend and he was like, I just have to be up here. Really? Yeah, I took a bus. I took a Greyhound

bus from Pittsburgh to New York and $20. And I got there at 6 in the morning. It was like a nine hour drive from Pittsburgh. Got to New York at 6 a.m. on Saturday. And then I drove back on the bus at 9 p.m. on Sunday. And I didn't sleep the whole weekend. I was just like so stimulated. You're so stimulating.

This is amazing. Yeah. Got himself up there. So another deep question because I love the deep question. He's like, Danny. Are you closer to your dad now? What does your relationship with your dad look like? I don't have a great relationship with him.

And it's similar to how it was before I went on the show. Like before the show, it's not like a, and it's not a resentment thing. It's weird. Like, I don't, I'm not, there's not anger towards him. I just like, just, I just grew up without having that around or in my life. so I don't even know what I'm missing out. So like if I scored a touchdown or if I, you know, got a A on a test or like I got a girlfriend or I got a new car or whatever,

like any big life moments, like I wasn't sharing that with him. I was sharing it with my mom and my friends. So like yeah, I never like there was never a relationship formed where I felt I needed to include him because I did all these things without him being there. So like it was just a natural progression going up and like hitting all these milestones in life and like not having him there. I didn't feel like, dang, I wish my dad was here. It's like, like I'm stoked for the people that are with me and rocking with me. And as I've gotten older, like, I see how important it is that men are around for their kids and in relationships because I think of a lot of the problems that my brother specifically had because he's been in and out of trouble since we were in high

school is because of the lack of that leadership in our house and the disciplinarian because when your mom's out working all day and there's not someone telling you know and like checking in on you as you would when you have two people tackling something like that, things get swept under the rug. So like I think that my brother carries more resentment and anger based on the things that he's had to deal with in life. He's a little bit older to where I think he probably remembers more when all of it happen. He probably felt a little bit more responsibility sometimes too, just being older. You know what? I will say this. I will say this. There was one time where I did feel, there was one time where I felt anger. And that was when he got his girlfriend pregnant. So when

he started having kids with other women outside of like our family, I'm like, dang. How old were you? I was in middle school. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I had, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I have. I, It's a very formative age. Rachel can attest to this. I have the worst memory. I have a memory of an elephant. No, you wish you had the memory of the event. You have like the memory of like a fly or something.

Yeah, mouse. I think elephants are pretty smart. Yeah. That's what I like he wishes. I have the memory of an elephant. He's like a bug that like dies in 24 hours. Yeah. You're like a bug that doesn't have a brain.

It's so true. It's so scary. It's kind of nice. Yeah. We need to get you on like some lines man or something. Yeah. Wait, where were you going with that? I'll get there.

The cool thing about that is, wait, where are we? He's like Dana. Who are you, people? He's like Dory. He's like, when that movie came out,

we used to joke about how he was Dory. But what I was going to say about that not having good memory is I can rewatch movies. And I can rewatch movies. I can rewatch movies. a movie next week and I have no idea what happened. He's like, guys, have y'all seen Lion King? Yes, it is the best movie ever.

Well, like, watch a Marvel movie, like a few months or like, you know, I don't know, like last year. And then like a few months go by and he's like, have we seen this? I'm like, we saw this twice in the theaters. That's great. You know, super power glass half full. You're always seeing the world through fresh eyes. The best.

That's the only time I'm jealous of it. I'm like, gosh, I remember everything I want. The worst, Danny, though, is like. when Rachel, when I need to recall something important. Yeah. And Rachel's just like, I'm like, you never told me that. Yeah. He gaslights me.

He's just like, I really don't remember. If you get a fight, I'm like, you're so annoying because I know I told you this, but you just don't remember. And then also like when I have like a wedding coming up or like a big event, I'm probably just nagging him every week. And I'm like, did you put in your calendar? Did you put it? And then the day will come or like the week will come.

And I'm like, don't forget. We have it on Friday. He's like, what? Yeah, he's like, I have to do this. He's like, I have a work thing. I can't go. And I'm like, I've literally gone to weddings without him because of this problem. Honestly, I am mad and Rachel is Jordan.

That's exactly how like I'm the same way. I have to work with it. Yeah. I'm like, we're going to have to be post-its or something. We'll have to figure it out. And the worst, Danny, is I always think I'm right. I'm always wrong. I'm like, Rachel, I know I told you that.

And then like maybe like a couple hours out of like, yeah, baby, I'm sorry. He'll be like, I was actually with my mom. Yeah. He'll mix up, like he'll be with someone. Whatever he's talking about, he's like, you were there. I'm like, no, I was. I've never been to that city in my life. Yeah.

And then it'll finally be like, oh, that was so-and-so. That's why you need to just daily document everything. Yeah. That's a great idea. You take it. You do it with your story is. You can always look back. The movie where he takes the notes on the notepad.

I don't know what you're talking about. This could be hard. Tell us more about it. Yeah, that's what else can you remember about the movie. The movie where he takes a movie. The movie where he takes a little. movie where he writes things down. We're like the notebook question mark.

This guy has the worst memory and he writes everything on post it. Oh, Adam Sandler? No, wait, that's whenever 50 first dates. That's another good one. I'm her. That's me. I'm Drew Barrymore. He is she.

Okay, so getting back on track. So back to your dad. Back to your dad. Well, actually, I do want to know, did he start to get, did it anger you at all? I'm sure from the show he started to get more attention, maybe, I guess. and was that hard because you're like, you know, we don't really have that strong relationship and now all of a sudden you see, you know what I mean? Yeah, did he try and come around more after the show?

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They have some other amazing baby and children products such as swaddles and pajamas. Head over to dreamlandbabyco.com and enter the code Danny at checkout to receive 20% off sitewide plus free shipping. This offer applies to both new and existing customers. It was never for a lack of effort. It was never for him not trying to come around. But it's just like, you're just like re-getting to like know a stranger.

It's like if you're not on top of it, like there's so many, like positive things going on in my life that like and it sounds messed up like I should be prioritizing that relationship with him but like it's just never been something that I've had so it's you don't feel like you're missing it yeah I also think you had a lot of father figures in your life that weren't your dad growing up you know I didn't ask you about that yeah I think you had a lot of men to look up to yeah I would say that the best thing that came out of that interaction with us on the show is that I had hundreds of people reaching out being like man like this is me like this is relationship like this like I want to have a conversation with my mom or my dad now and like that

right there is enough like just that was enough if someone else could take something away from my experience in our conversation then like like God's purpose of me being on the show like was fulfilled like from that vantage point yeah but in terms of the father figure standpoint like I think that I've always gravitated towards friends and relationships where when I I would spend time with them, it was what I viewed as a traditional family. So like, you know, your mom, your dad, your son, daughter, dogs, whatever. Like all of my best friends growing up had that. And like, I looked to the men in those relationships as like, dang, like that's what I aspire to be. Like, I want to be that for my family when I grow up. So like, I really don't feel like

I missed out because I had, you know, I had like Mr. Rafferty. I had Mr. Robbins. I had Mr. Buckley, like all these coaches. Yeah. That's so cool. Because a lot of people, I feel, like would probably turn the other way and rebel and be like, I didn't have that. So therefore, I'm not going to be that way because I never had that experience. So it kind of also is like a testament to how amazing your mom was too. Because that's got to be hard as a single mom. I mean, I can't even imagine with two babies of my own. They're about two years apart. And like, I'm like, yeah, like you need, but it's more like I need Jordan for me for me for the kids. Right. Yeah. I'm like, I'm going to go crazy. And so that's pretty cool.

Are you guys religious? Yes. Okay. Can you tell us more about that? Are you Christians? Yes. Yes. Okay.

Same. Good company. Jesus all the way. Nice, man. I grew up my mom's family's Catholic and then my dad's is non-denominational. My grandma, both grandmas were very religious, but it was different growing. I feel like, well, I don't want to insult you, but I was going to say I feel like the mom's always the one. that is really pushing like, you know, Sunday school and church.

So in our family, like, I was going to, like, Catholic Bible study and going to church every Sunday that, like, I had to, like, you know, wear the perfect dress. You know, it was like that, which, like, is totally fine. But I felt like I had a disconnect growing up because I think my mom grew up. And for her, it was a lot of almost guilt-ridden. Yeah. Like if you don't do this or, you know, if you're not like this. Mom was the Catholic?

Yes. Okay. Yeah. Whereas like my dad's definitely like more free spirited and like my grandma and his like his mom. She was just, you know, reading her Bible in her own kind of world. And I would say like that's how I am more so now. So I would say I'm like non-denominational now.

I wouldn't consider myself Catholic. That's what I would say we are too. Yeah. And this is probably ignorant for me to say. but I sometimes don't even get why there's so many different types of Christianity now. Like I guess I can look that up, but it's just interesting. Like I had so many friends that were Catholic, so many that were Baptists, Methodists, and I guess now I'm just like, you know, I just consider myself Christian.

But I think they're pretty minor theological differences unless you're going from like Catholicism to. Like for example, being a Christian that is like more so out of fear. or being a Christian that's more charismatic. Like a lot of it. Church of Christ, they don't use instruments. Yeah. Really? Yeah.

There's a lot of different. But at the root of it, it's like Jesus, I think is at the root of all of it. So, okay, then what about you? Man, my mom wasn't married before her and my dad met. And then just imagine like becoming a Christian after being married to someone who isn't a Christian that has like. Wait, were you saying she wasn't a Christian? Christian before she married your dad. She was not a Christian. She got married. But not to your dad? To my dad. Oh, to your dad. Okay. And then she got saved like a year into the marriage. And then so like

imagine like a new Christian with this like like love and passion and energy for Christ. And then like my dad who's like from Africa like doesn't have any like sense of religion and is living a very worldly life and like running around doing whatever he wants to do. So that's ultimately why my mom had to get out of that relationship. Oh, okay. And her faith is like, everything. Yeah, it's, it's like, it's, it's the only thing that that has brought her through all the trials and tribulations in her life. Like seeing how faithful she's been through like all of the turmoil and struggles and tribulations in her life solidifies my faith. And growing up, I reluctantly did everything that you have to do when you grow up in like the strongest of Christian households. Like we'd be in church

sometimes for three hours. We're going to church on Wednesday night. We're going to vacation. Wednesday night was brutal. You know what I mean? And like my mom, some parents in mixed relationships, like my dad's from Africa.

My mom's parents are both from Italy. So she's 100% Italian. He's 100% African. Like there's some parents that like when you have an interracial marriage or relationship, they take on like the culture and attitude of like the opposite race. So like you might have like, let's say that like my dad being black, my mom being white, my mom becomes this like, you know, has the haircut that like starts in the back, like the starter kit

where it's like they're like that like mixed mom where it's like, you know what I mean? Like they just like start to talk like differently and act differently. That was never my mom. Like my mom was just like who she was, which was just like this like normal amazing woman that like tried to provide all these different experiences for John and I to like chart out our own. path. And I say all that to say that, like, we would go to, like, a non-denominational church. We'd go to, like, a black Baptist church in the hood. And, like, she's the only white person in there. We'd go to, like, she did all these things to make sure that, like, she wasn't keeping us from, like, receiving the

word and the best way that it was meant for us. So she kind of did that to let your faith be your own. Exactly. Yeah. Interesting. And all of. I love because I wish I had that growing up. That's like, that's amazing. Bro, I'm telling you, she was on another level. Like, she just, like, she was she's just such a woman after like Jesus's own heart that like it was infectious and ourselves and I feel like there's a Bible verse I don't know how it goes exactly but it's like you raise a kid in the way that like he should be and he never strays from that path or something like that and I feel like having that foundation as a child like even like in my tribulations in life now like I'm always drawn back to like if anything's wrong I'm like man I'm like I must not be aligned with like

with the word not like in a sense that it's going to like make everything better but it like gives me an inner peace I'm like why am I so like stressful and anxious when like it says in the Bible like be anxious for nothing but in all things in prayer make your request known and he'll like make your past rate and so like I try to do those things and like remind myself of the things that like my mom instilled in us at this like a young age that as an adult like that's where where I go to for like my peace opposed to like, you know, alcohol and like places that, you know. Yeah.

When did it become like your own faith? Because, I mean, you were stealing goats. Yeah. You were busy. Right, right, right. So was it like college that it like kind of set in as your own? No, it's crazy about that. It's like, not to say like, I mean, God's grace is.

Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Just saying it didn't sound like it was the core focus. You're like, oh, I'll go on Wednesday night.

Right. Right. Right. plans on Friday, I got to get this goat. That's how it was so much growing up for like, I don't know, a lot of. All of us. Yeah. It's like it's a, it's cultural Christianity is what it is.

Yeah. Yep. I would say that like it's the, it's a funny thing that you, it's funny that you say that because as I go back now to like my friend group and like back home, people are like thrown off by our interactions because of who they knew me as. You know what I mean? It's like hard for them to see me who I am now. Totally.

Opposed to like this like crazy kid growing up in high school like doing all these things. So yeah, I mean, that's why I firmly believe that people can change. But like, I think that you can change through like that relationship and like having like the Holy Spirit live in you. Like I think that that transformation can take place and like it can change you as a person and how people see you. But it's hard for people who you grow up with and who knew you to see you in that new light because they haven't lived out like my experience.

No, totally. I think it's supposed to feel different and look different when you are transformed by Christ. But was it like the, was it the humbling of Wake Forest and realizing it wasn't all about you and no one was coming to the football games or whatever? Was it that season or was it high school where it like really started to be like, hey, this is not something that my mom just took me to. Like this is actually going to be a part of my life. I think it was when I started to have these responsibilities of adulthood. So like when I left college and like I started to understand why adults do the things that they do. And I'm like, man, life is hard. Like life is so challenging.

I'm not making excuses for people who do horrible things, but I have a different perspective of people who do things that are wrong. And grace that you give them. Yeah, I give them the grace that I give them. And like, and with my dad specifically, it's like, I felt like when I left college and I'm harboring like any type of resentment towards him or any type of resentment towards, you know, a coach that could have kept me from, you know, achieving whatever I was set out to achieve, I'm reminded of all of the things that I do personally that when I envy things, when I lie, when I cheat, when I talk. behind people's backs and that like God forgives me for those things and he doesn't love me any less

and I'm like dang if he's showing me this grace and I'm like this rotten of a person like how can I have that type of energy towards other people and so like that reminder as an adult is like what really got me to this place where I'm like I need to be doing everything I can to stay in the word and stay around believers so that I don't get off track and become one of those people that I'm like Yeah, you describing, you forgiving your dad was giving hardcore Jesus vibes. I was like, this seems pretty deeply spiritual to me. It doesn't seem easy. Most people aren't going to be able to get there without some type of faith, you know?

So was that hard going on the show? And like, because you just think when you think of the bachelor, you think like Hollywood and totally different, you know, so many different beliefs and backgrounds. Was it hard going on the show as a believer? And honestly, I have a question before that. was your, I don't really remember much from the season we did watch it, where you kind of branded as like the Christian Bachelor at all, or that wasn't really a part of it? I feel like they don't really do that. I mean, Matt, my friend Maddie. They did it with, um, Sean was so early though. Sean and Ben Higgins. And then Maddie was,

is a friend of mine. Maddie Pruitt. Yeah. So I feel like probably have to like really push that though. Yeah. If they're like, I'm not going to do this unless I get to talk about that, then what I don't I feel like for him it was just the first black bachelor. That's all they carried out. The narrative, okay. But he, I would say that you took matters into your own hands because the very first thing that Matt did when we were all finally in from the limos and we were all sitting around waiting for him to walk in.

The first thing he did was pray over us. Was that on camera? Yes, we did show that. Oh, I feel like I do remember that. And I started crying. And that is when every female Christian America fell in love. They're like, oh my gosh. I do remember that. He was like, I'm honestly like really, really nervous right now. And I just need to pray because that like always helps me. That's awesome. And so I don't know, did they know you were going to do that? I didn't tell them because I felt like the producers were like, how do we handle this? Right, right. I think they loved it because they kept it in. Yeah. And it was just interesting. Like, looking back on it now, there were a lot of women in there that weren't Christian. Yeah. And yeah, it's just kind of interesting to think about that they did. And it's just kind of interesting to think about that they did. And it.

didn't, did they ask you, like when they were asking what type of woman you wanted? No. And my thing is like, I'm not Christian culture. We call that missional dating. Yeah. Now that I'm like, I'm kind of surprised all the women stuck around. I don't know. Yeah. Well, I know a lot of people that don't have a faith, probably respect it. Yeah. They probably are like, I'm cool with it. Like, I don't really know what you're talking about, but I don't hate it. Right. Right. Maybe I want a little bit of it. I don't know what it is. And I think that's a good point, Danny. I think that like, it's, it's, I want people to, see that I'm a Christian not through like what I'm saying but like how I'm living my life.

And I feel like that is the approach I took to being on the show. It's like there's just like little things that I would I would throw in there so that like it wasn't like this like this like aggressive Jesus freak that's like this guy's like too much and like. Because that can be off putting. And honestly it can turn people off from your faith more than be like encouraging or inviting. Right. So I would say the biggest thing that I was nervous about going on to the show was the fantasy suite just because like you know there's this expectation from you know america that like you're gonna you know have sex when you're but that's so crazy because a few seasons before ours like it wasn't like that and then i feel like i don't know

if it was ben someone there was it there's been a few that are like we're just not going to do that or we're going to do something different or yeah but yeah and then i was like i don't even remember who was before you, but there were just a few that did do that, and then it became, that became the norm. Oh, okay. You got what I'm saying? Yeah. In the earlier seasons, like, that wasn't necessarily like, yeah, first overnights, but

sex wasn't talked about so much. It wasn't like the main focus. Yes. And now it is. Like, Clayton coming on after and then having sex with all of it. Like, it was just crazy stuff. Before in like a classy way. Yeah.

They wouldn't talk about what happened. Exactly. Exactly. I remember that. It was like very PG. Yes. And then it got to the point where it was like, it felt like a little bit more of like a reality reality TV show. Yeah, like you had to discuss it.

Had to talk about it. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. I think that would, that would stress me out too. But so was it like going back to my original question, like, were there any other moments on the show that you felt like scared? Your values were like being challenged. Yeah. 100%.

I mean, you don't have any control in terms of like how things are going. So like the first date. Like literally the first thing we did was... Our first day? No, the first thing with everybody. Oh, group day. Yeah, first group day. The bride.

Yes. Oh, yeah. What happened? Oh, my gosh. I need a refresher. Good, tell them. So it's our first group date. It's like the very first week we're there.

And it's, they do this like every season now where all the girls pick out a bride's or a wedding dress. Yeah. And we. picked out these wedding dresses, all got dressed up, and it's like, you know, Matt trying to find his perfect bride or whatever. And so, I mean, this is literally in every season now. They do like a bridal shoot or like a wedding, like pretend wedding photos. I remember. And I don't know who started the train, but someone got up there and just started making out with him. So then your mom's at home like, probably, probably on her knees brain. Because, well, because

Then after that girl did it, every single girl, every single girl that went up was like trying to one up the girl before. So it just got so. Did you do it? I didn't even get called up and I would not have done it because to me that was so crazy to think like that was going to be our first kiss. And you were doing it just because other people were doing it. So I was freaking out. I'm like, oh my gosh. Like, you know, what the heck do I do when I?

Like I wasn't going to. but I hope that he doesn't Yeah, expect that. But before they even called me up, I think you stopped them. He was like, I need to take a moment. And you guys stepped aside.

I don't know what was said, but I think he was like, what the hell is going on? Did you stop them? Because you were like, this is too much? Yeah, I was sick. Like,

I was, I was not happy. Really? With the producers. Did they listen? Yeah, they did. They did.

And I think that, like, it's an exploratory thing with everybody. They're trying to figure out, like was your limit yeah like what's this person about like are they like who they say they are are they going to be like you know i'll do whatever like i'll go with whatever yeah yeah and like similar to what rachel said like i was genuinely going about this experience like contrary to what anyone else thought to find someone that i wanted to marry and like find my wife and i didn't want

that first interaction to be like something that was like not authentic and genuine yeah it's just so yeah exactly it just was not genuine and i feel like people were just kissing to kiss. And like, I don't know. Some people might not think that's a big deal, but I think any first interaction like that is a big deal. Yeah. And so it was just hard to watch.

Like I, at one point I think I like turned around or I just was like looking down because I felt uncomfortable, you know? And yeah, that kind of scared me for the rest of the experience in a way because I was like, that's what all of these, if everyone's about. Yeah, I'm like kind of scared, you know. Did that set the tone pretty well in terms of the producers? And they were like, like, I know everyone likes. to bash the show.

Like I like outside of like things that happened outside of the show like the show like the show was amazing. Like I had the best time. I met Rachel. Like I it was it was so much fun. So much fun to the point that like I started getting pissed off. And I'll explain why. Because again, it's the bachelor.

You're there to meet women to, you know, to find your wife. And the women started to like each other more than they were starting to like me. They're buddying up. They're like best friends. And there's a specific instance that I always share with Rachel and she hates it. Rachel got a rose. Like she got a rose before the rose ceremony. So like she's not going home.

She got a group day rose. She got a group day rose. So I was safe. She's safe for the week. She's not going home. And then at the rose ceremony when other people are going home, like the other women are crying. And I'm like, who have roses. I'm like, why are y'all upset? Like, you're staying. And they're like, but our friends are leaving. And I'm like. And I keep telling him, I'm like,

you just had to be there. Like you don't get it because you weren't in that house. Like, we were, yeah, like we spent way more time with each other than we did with him. Sure. Not by choice, obviously. But most of the women, I would say, you know, there's always that one girl in the show. It's like, I'm not here to make friends. Yeah. Yeah. But most of the girls are down to be friends. Yeah. And I did, I tried my very best. I do think I did a good job of compartmentalizing my relationships with the women and my relationship with him because it is so weird to think like, I love you so much. I want to be your best friend outside the show, but also like we're trying to like marry the same man. Yeah. So it's such a weird concept and it's just a really weird thing to go

through. But yeah, we obviously got so close spending so much time together. And you don't have your phones, you don't have TV, you have nothing. So you're left with nothing but your thoughts. and your conversations. So you really can get to know someone really quickly. Just like we did with him, like we're also getting to know each other so well, so fast. I would love to know like the fresh perspectives of y'all's experiences with each other on the show. Like, because you go in and you don't know who the bachelor's going to be, right? Or you do like a little bit before. We did know because it was COVID that year. And we started filming the very beginning of October. This was October 2020. Oh, this is literally middle of COVID.

And you all had to be on social media for the two years after that. Those were the worst years of social media. It was crazy. Are you okay? Are you okay? Honestly, no. No. I don't think I ever will, but like, I don't think anyone came out of those.

I'll never be the same. Yeah. Unscathed. Social media kept me off of being on the Bachelorette, though. Yes. Yeah, because you always talk about that. No, because COVID happened and they, he was in L.A. to be on Claire's season, the bachelor before.

You were going to go on the bachelor before you were the bachelor Because that's how they Gotcha They needed him to be the best They wanted him to be the bachelor But they needed him to be on the season prior To hopefully make that happen

That's how it always works That's kind of how it always works They always have someone in mind Like when they're casting They always have someone in mind For like who the next lead could And hopefully will be Yeah smart

And they wanted Matt to be the lead But then COVID happened You said allegedly obviously You said no Oh, you said. So he said yes. To Claire's season? Were you on Claire's season?

No, because. I actually have a question for you. Oh, do it. All right, I'll answer your question, then I'll answer their question. Okay. What's your question? There's this rumor going around that apparently you guys did film the very first night and that there were people there from later seasons. And then they scrapped the whole thing when they realized that COVID was that bad and they had to send everyone home.

Is that true? That did not happen. I was going to say, the tea is piping hot. I've been seeing people talk about that on like TikTok and comments and stuff on like Bachelor pages. And I'm like, no, there's no way. Like Matt would have definitely said. But you guys were quarantining to film. And then they said, oh, you were.

Okay. Yeah, we were quarantining. And then you're watching the news and stuff. And they're like, yeah, we're going to cancel the NCAA basketball tournament. And you're like, what? And then like a day later, they're like, yeah, we're going to send you all home. Like, something's going around. And like they ended up being COVID.

So we were only supposed to be home for three weeks. And then we're going to start filming. again. And then that's when I moved back to Jupiter with Tyler Cameron, my at the time roommate in New York, moved to Florida together. Why Florida? Because he's from Jupiter. Oh, he's from Jupiter. And like Florida is probably one of the best places to be. We didn't know that at the time. Oh, was that like the quarantine or whatever. Yeah. All these people like one by one, we just started like all our friends. But like Florida was nice because it was great weather. So you could at least go hang out in someone's backyard or like your own backyard or beach. Whereas like New York, you're in a shoe.

box. That had to be so hard. I felt so bad for it. And it was really bad in New York. Just like. Yeah. It's horrible. You had to.

You really had to move. I had friends that were just driving out of there with their babies getting out. Yeah. So that was before. And then because of that, you said no to be on Claire's. So, so. This is funny. This is all like, I feel like the show is going to come after me.

So like this is, so as you're home for three weeks, right? and then you're going to go back. And so you get social media back. So like you see all the other people that are going to be on the show with you. Yeah. There's like going through all of her men on social media. Allegedly, you know, allegedly. She said she was.

Oh yeah. So like she's seeing like who these people are, what they're about, whatever. And like I wasn't, I was in the house with my best friends. I'm in there with like the homies. Like so we're just we're just like broadcasting our lives. And we're not slowing down. Like we're just doing TikToks every day. TikToks were, pranks.

Yeah, prank wars, slip and slide. Like, we're just like, you know, we're quarantining in place. And to her defense, I get it. She said something along the lines of like, you know, if you're making TikToks and doing X, Y, Z, like, you're probably not for me. And like this experience isn't for you. Because you're not coming for the right reasons or something like that. Oh, because you're, like, posting stuff online.

She was basically inferring that he was going for, like, fame and not for her. Gotcha. That feels very targeted. It was very targeted. I mean, it was pretty obvious that she was talking about you, I think, from what everyone was saying. It's like, this is obviously about Matt James. Well, there was the answer for you. Yeah. She wasn't interested.

It was probably a blessing in disguise because if they would have picked up filming the second, you would have walked out, she would have been like, go home. And then they would have been like, dang, how do we make that guy or bachelor? You would have been a bad guy. That ended up, so I didn't end up going back. And then that ended up being how they reached out about being the bachelor. They just called him out of nowhere. He thought they were lying. He thought it was a prank because they were pranking people.

So that's when he was saying no earlier when he was like, I said no at first. Isn't it because he thought that it was a joke? Well, I said no to the bachelorette because. Oh, I were talking about Bachelor. Yeah, I said no, the Bachelorette just because like I liked my life at the time. Like I didn't want to change it. But Tyler's mom, Ms. Cameron, who passed away from a brain aneurism, she nominated me. She was like, I think this would be great for you.

I'm like, respectfully, Ms. Cameron, like, I don't think this is a good idea for me. And she's like, no, I've seen how Tyler's changed. And I'm like, so I started entertaining it more and more. And then here we are. Wow. Yeah. That's such a cool story, though. So you all ended up together.

Yeah, I want to know, like, what the journey was, like, for you and your feelings and you and your feelings. So I think that every girl, it's so. So it probably couldn't be more different being the lead and being a contestant. Because I remember every girl there, I swear it felt like everyone was like, yeah, he's my husband. Like it felt like, which is hard to hear. Well, because I'm sitting here like, we're immediately clicking. Like I thought our first conversation I was like. So was it immediate for both of you?

That's kind of what I was trying to get at you. Okay, that makes sense. I mean, as soon as I saw him and as soon as we met, I was walking off like, whoa. And then I was like, okay, wait, is that a real spark? Or is it just because, like, he's the bachelor? Yeah, I'm like, yeah, romanticizing this. But then, like, we sat down and I don't know how your conversations went with the other women. But I think that one of the very first things we talked about was like, Waffle House.

We were already talking about food. Yeah. And they probably hated us because we weren't having these, like, really intimate, hard, deep conversations. You know, like, we were just talking about food and, like, Marvel movies. just like fun things about our life. And yeah, they probably, like, they would probably come in every time whenever we're like giggling about something like, okay, so what about this? Like maybe let's touch on that because we're not doing. Do you remember that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, and then back at the house. Can you believe we both like Spider-Man?

Yeah. Seriously. So true. Yeah. And then I'd get home and then, you know, I'd be having butterflies. I'm like, oh my gosh, I really like him. And then I'd hear the girl next to me be like, I'm in love with him. Like, we're perfect for each other. So I'm like, I'm like, like second-guessing my feelings almost because I'm like, oh my God, if everyone's feeling like this, like maybe it is just like bubble love or I'm really romanticizing this. Like maybe I'm just like fascinated with the fact that he is the bachelor. I don't know, but it feels real. Like you're like just really, because when you start to hear everyone else saying they're feeling the exact same thing you are, it's just kind of unsettling in a way. Yeah.

But then like I feel like whenever we were together, he would give me so much reassurance. But then I'd get in my head and be like, I wonder if he's saying that to all the women or if it's just me. But at one point, this was right before hometowns when we were off camera. And Matt was like, just like, you know, don't like be scared, don't worry. And then I think that made myself worry more because I'm like, oh my gosh, what if we were both in our heads, I think at some point. Because I was like, what if he said that to have me put my guard down just so he can, like, like slip it out from under me. And then I, because like at this point, we're not trusting any of the producers.

We're not trusting anyone around this. We can't trust anyone. What's real? What's fake? Like, it's so scary. But like I fell very fast and very hard, you know, like just immediately. And I feel like by our very, like our actual one-on-one date, I was like, okay, this is real. Like, I'm definitely falling in love with him.

Yeah. And I told you that. And I think you told me that back. Yeah. And that was such a big deal because it, I remember like watching it back. It almost seemed so random. I remember people being like, where did this come from? What?

Yes. That's a girl who like waffle house. Yes, but they didn't show, you know, like they cut. It's so weird because now I see it in later seasons, like, or most recent seasons. They really don't like to show the connection with the final one. Really? Maybe they're like keeping you on your toes. You know who that happened with with Sean and Catherine?

Yes. And I don't have that in Joey season too. I loved him and Daisy. Yeah. Oh, that's right. That's right. And I think Kelsey has come out publicly being like that was really hard for me because I felt like we had so many special moments and they didn't show any of it because I think they want the audience to be surprised. It makes sense. Yeah. Did you ever feel like at any part in the show you were like, I'm ready to call it a day, but I'm kind of part of this program. I got to keep going. Like does it get to that point or was it really at the end you felt, okay, I've got to I've got to make a decision. I think that I'm going to preface this is why I'm not trying to call anybody out. But I think that's like extremely. selfish to have that approach. Like, even if you know, sorry, which

approach to be like, we're done. I see. Because like, like, I'm sure. Like, it's, like, you know what you're signing up for. Like, you're going on there to see it all the way through. And like, that could change. Like, I'm sure multiple people have been like, this is the one I know. And then like, you know, X, Y, Z happens.

That person can't take it. They go home. And like, then you're like, you've told, you've like publicly proclaimed that like, this is the one. Right. And then you had these other two women there like, what the heck? Yeah. Or three women.

It can just look bad because it's like, you know, if you're saying like this is the person, like after like, you know, week four or five. But then you like keep strolling the other women along. It's kind of like, why did you do that? So you really kind of have to trust the process and that's the right thing to do when you're on that show. I think personally. Yeah. And it's hard to say because, you know, the person that you ultimately end up with is going to watch back. you telling all these other women that there could be.

So it's tough. It's a loser. There's probably like a media side to it too where if you're, y'all are all playing your own publicist in your head the entire time because you're like, I have no idea how this is going to be cut. Yeah. It's probably smart with your publicist hat on too because you're like, man, if I leave early, they're going to destroy me in the cuts.

Like they're going to edit this to where I am the worst person in the entire world too. So I get trusting the process in a show like that. Well, because perception is is reality. And sometimes it's like not. And sometimes it's like I'm leaving. for a different reason, but then it's just like that story is spun in a different way. But you're doing the best thing for you and it's the healthiest thing for you. It's so complicated.

That's why like, I mean, I'm obviously, I've never been on TV or reality TV, but like even just being in the internet space for so long, like, you can show like one clip of your day and people get a totally different like, and I'm like, you guys don't even know what happened the other hours. I thought we were getting a divorce because when we were taking a picture, I put my arm on her shoulder and she like put it on the lower end of her back and they're like, They're like, oh my gosh. They're like body language.

And I was like, no, I just feel like I'm like your like sister. Whenever you hold me like this, like hold me like this. Like that's really what I was thinking. But y'all get it the worst. I think now it's kind of tough because there's so many of these kind of like love reality shows. But I always said, Bachelor Nation most vicious audience that you could acquire. Which y'all have done such a good job of diversifying away from that. Like I don't even think that people see you guys as, you know, oh, Bachelor.

I think that they kind of do, but that is a vicious demo right there. People are more like media and digital, like literate now too. I think now that everybody's editing their own TikToks on their phone, they're like, oh, that's how easy it was to make that story. Like now I think people kind of see it, which was like one of the good things to come from everybody getting on TikTok, I guess. But okay, so can you walk us through after the, because you all broke up, right? Can I ask one question about the show before? Okay.

Just one more question. So, he always does this to me. Well, so this is actually, okay, so I didn't know that your season was October 2020. They don't know, probably because you're off your phone

about like for most of that. For COVID? Yeah, what I want to talk about is that truly, like Danny and I talk about this all of the time on this podcast,

of how tense on the internet and just across the board, politically, racially, et cetera, those two years were. I think all of us look back on 2024 and we're like, whoa, that was maybe a little too intense. And so I didn't know. I kind of thought that in my mind you were positioned as like the Christian Bachelor.

And then you said earlier, no, they kind of positioned you as like the first black bachelor in the year of 2020. That's pretty obvious. That's difficult. Right, right. Did you feel any pressure or external voices to be something on that show? were you carrying a burden that you did not expect to carry going into that year of 2020? Yeah, yeah. I think that's accurate. I mean, you had to. I think it's accurate. I mean, it's just like you have so many people that are like being affected by everything that's going on,

whether they're out of work, whether they have a family member who's been affected by COVID, whether they're directly impacted by the social injustice that was going on at the time. Like everyone felt some type of way and it was one way or the other. It wasn't. like togetherness. No. And so when I was announced as the bachelor, you know, it wasn't like, Matt, this Christian bachelor. It's like Rachel said, it's like the first black bachelor, which it was. People still say it to this day. Like if he's ever mentioned in any article, it's like Matt James, the first black bachelor. Yeah. That's just. Which, which I was and am. and like I'm very appreciative and like understanding of how monumental that was and is to the

franchise. It's never had something like that. But it just led to a lot of conversations that I personally don't think I was equipped for and a lot of the other women who are on the show weren't equipped for because, you know, there's agendas that people are pushing and want told and drawn out through the lives and mouths of people that have nothing to do with what they're trying to progress. Like, strictly on there to meet someone, fall in love and live out my days with that person. It's almost like it wasn't about this and now I feel like it's having to be about this, right? And to be clear, I don't think any of us were equipped to go into those two years. Like, I was telling Danny last night, I was like, man, I feel like those two years were just, there were

conversations happening that had never happened in our lifetime before. And then it was like, boom, all at once, right? But, and I think that what it, those are two of the most divisive years on the internet and just like, I think as a country, I think that people are kind of like tired now. And so they're maybe coming back together a little bit. But yeah, I just can't imagine the pressure that those two years of being the Bachelor had on y'all. I think like for when you look back on it, it was just like so well overdue. Like he shouldn't have been the first Black Bachelor because they should have had one a long time ago. And then yeah, just having all the pressure from like what was going on in the real world on top of it.

Yeah. It was just a lot. But I remember when we were finally finished filming. Do you remember coming downstairs and I was crying in the closet when I was packing up? Oh, yeah. You remember that? He's like, what's wrong? And I'm like, I just knew that it was going to be a pretty device.

I was just worried about our finale and like him picking me over. I think like your top five, everyone was a person of color except for me. Yeah. And so I was scared about that because I was just like I didn't want anyone angry. at him or with us or at me and this was like even before I mean this is right when we finished filming so the show wasn't even on air yet

I had no idea what was coming you know and I already was worried about it just from the fact that that was just like an added layer that I don't think the show the show had had it before because Sean and Catherine they are an interracial couple but like just I guess not to the extent of

you know especially what was going on in the world so I just knew that I was was going to be like an added pressure, I guess. But yeah, I had no idea what was going gross. Speaking of feeding our kids, good food. Another company we've loved for a very long time. But it has made our lives 10 times easier is Thrive Market. In fact, I have worked with a ton of brands in my life. And you can literally ask every single person my team, like my favorite brand deals were always Thrive Market. I'm obsessed with Thrive Market. I think because I'm such a snacker. If you've been listening to the podcast, you know that September and October always get

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trying to fit or was there freedom for you to choose and? Are you talking about after the roast? During the show towards the end. I don't remember the timeline because I don't remember like 2020 and everything but you know like pushing him towards other contestants maybe or just like especially after you know like here's what you should say or here's how this should be positioned like did you guys feel freedom to just be a new couple. Like did anyone feel freedom to just I don't know. I never felt I'll say it like this. If I had exclusively dated one type of person then I would have been nervous. If I was like only into black women.

I was only into white women. But like my dating history is more diverse than I would say 99% of people. White, black, Middle Eastern, Spanish. Like there's, I'm not attracted to a color. I'm attracted to the person. Totally. I'm just saying like I'm just to give context. Like what did you say?

I was like, slow down there. He's like and then like there was this one time. I'm a little older than you. But no, it's just, I say that to preface that, like, I was never, I never thought about it. Like, man, I hope that, you know, the person that I pick falls into a certain category. Like, I was solely, and I think that how everything played out is you were seeing that, I don't think that people were about me finding love. It was about me picking a certain type of person.

Really? Yeah. Well, yeah, I think so. I think that, I don't think it would have mattered who I ended up with. Someone would have been upset. And that's why I tried to remind myself throughout the entire process that like you can't do anything for anybody but yourself. Because if you're trying to please people, you're never going to make anybody happy and you're going to be the one who's the most unhappy. Well, you can do any, like you can bend over backwards for people and it's still not going to be enough.

And you'll always have one group that's angry with you. And so I think we went through so much and you did ask, we did break up. And I think it was because he felt such a pressure to try and bend over backwards and make people happy. I'll let you speak on that. I don't know. But then it got to a point where it was just so much and it was just so bad. And we were both so unhappy to where I think we finally just were like, why don't we just live for ourselves and stop trying to please other people? Because like no matter what we do, it's not going to be enough.

And I think that's kind of how we found our way back to each other is we're like, okay, what is going to make us happy? And we empathize about a lot too because I think that every creator in the space during those years tried to bend in some former fashion, you know, to not any specific cause, but like everyone was getting pressure from some place. And I think we learned a lot about ourselves during those years. And to not be pressured because at the same time, like I want to like understand. Like I actually like there were times I was like reading all these books and I'm trying to understand. I'm like I want to see both sides. And I'm like, I want to see both sides. And I'm like, I want to see both sides. and I feel that way even with politics. I'm like, I don't even really want to say what I am because I want to understand everyone's perspective, but the hardest part about 2020 and 2021 for me was the timing. It was like you had to decide what you wanted to say right then in the moment. And like, I was like, wait, I don't know yet.

I haven't thought about this. Or I just read one Instagram post about this, that I just learned this one new thing. So now I have to identify as this or like, I don't know what I'm even saying anymore. And did anyone know what they were saying? Like, I think a lot of us were doing a lot of like learning and unlearning that year. Yeah. And like it's not even like something that you can just, it's not like you take a class and then you're like, okay, it's like a forever thing.

But that's why now I feel like I am like I have to give myself that time and not even though I'm feeling the pressures of people wanting me to say something. I need to be like firm in what I believe and not let people sway me. Yeah. Because like I definitely felt like I have at times just done things because people were pressured. because it's so hard not to. Yeah. Because then you're like, wait, am I the, am I the ignorant one? Am I the stupid one?

Like, I don't know. Yeah. And I think the hard thing, like, as Christians, like, is that deep down what we all knew in those two years was as much as media, and I would venture to say propaganda, like wanted to put us in these boxes of your identity is this, your identity is this, your identity is this. Is I think that as Christians, it's like, hey, like, our love for, one another and our calling to love one another goes so far deeper than a political class or

racial barrier or whatever. And so I think that that was like what was really something that none of our brains were ready for is like being identified as that versus just like you guys love each other because you probably like Waffle House and your believers. And like y'all are tied together by a deeper, you know, values. So you talked about the breakup a little bit. Can you talk about the breakup a little bit? What was going through your mind? I would say to answer that question that you pose and then I'll answer yours to, Danny, was that, I think that, I think someone asked me one time, it might have been like CNN or Fox. Some, like, news outlet asked me this question. They're like, how do you, like, how do you, like, how do you, like, how do you, very different networks?

Right, right, right. I say, I, I, I, I gave both of those to show the question and we'll probably know what who said. Yeah. They asked how I identify, like, how do you identify yourself? Like, just like the most open, answered, like, the most open-ended question. And my answer, like, upset so many people. And I was like, I identify as like a child of God. And I went into detail as to why I understand that. I'm like, or why I feel that way. I'm like, my worldly views are based on the Bible and like those, the things that I believe are backed by X, Y, Z. And I just gave this like very in-depth answer. And like basically they're like, are you white or black? Like, you know, they're just like, you're going to ask that question. You know what I mean? So I'm like,

You're like, I'm on a video interview. Right. Right. So I say to your question, to answer your question, it's just like there, there was no right or wrong answer. Like I just solely tried to be as authentic as I could. And I could always be happy with myself knowing that I was, I wasn't answering a question for anybody but me.

For sure. This is actually pretty funny. And with us not being together, I was so like. jaded by the experience that I genuinely thought that Rachel did research on my life before the show. I didn't know this. That I told you this before, that like she was answering questions thinking that like, thinking that like she was saying things that I would want to hear. Like, and this is like such a dumb example.

But like when we would talk about like Marvel and stuff like that, she's like, oh yeah, I'm the biggest Marvel fan. And like as like, that's not something you hear from like an attractive woman. Yeah. I honestly, she said it earlier and I was like, really? I was like, more than anyone. So she would say stuff like that. And I'm like, in my head, I'm like, she's like, she's playing this well.

She's like, she knows I love Marvel. Yeah. I'm like, interesting. No one else is saying anything about Marvel. So we break up and throughout that process of like getting to know Rachel like outside of the show or getting to know anybody outside of like being on camera like you really get to know somebody after

because like our... It's no surprise that a lot of couples break up. Oh yeah. Because you really, it's crazy. I also think it's so crazy how people get engaged on the show. It is crazy. But when now having done it,

it's such a crazy thought. Because you really at the end of the day like you could have a good gut feeling about them and you could know them on a deal deep level because of the conversations you've had, but you don't know them like the back of your hand. How long three months? Filming up to like beginning to end is two months. Two months. Yeah. It's like a, it's like a summer camp relationship. But with a summer camp relationship, like, I'm going to break it down for you.

So like in a week, you probably spend you with Rachel specifically, not like with the like we're all spending time together, but I'm not like really like. drilling down on my relationship with one particular person because it's like, you know, there's 37 women there. So like, like actual time that we spent like communicating, getting to know each other is like 10 minutes here, 15 minutes the next day. So in one week, we probably spent an hour and a half together. Wow. So at the end of eight weeks. That's why I don't know how I would go crazy as one of the girls. I would go crazy. Yeah. That's why the girls go crazy on the shows earlier. I think you were checked out. I was towards the end,

I just couldn't mentally handle it anymore. I was like, I need this to be over with, especially because I did feel like it was going to be us in the end. And so I was so ready, I was like, I just need to start my life with him. From the breakup then too, because then it was like all heightened after the show. And then were you like relieved to just like, go yourself? Okay. I was not.

I was like so against it. That was your call? Yeah. Okay. Yep. And I just, I felt like he was doing it not for himself or because he wanted to. Is that true? Well, I think it gets back to...

I'm like a therapist. No, I think it gets back to what I was saying about like, do I really know who this woman is? So you were jaded? You were like, I don't really know you. So we need to break up. Well, I thought I knew her. And as we were broken up, like, we still talked like literally every day. And so like, I'm like, man, this is the woman that like I know.

Like, this is Rachel. Like, I know Rachel. Like, no one else knows Rachel. Like, I know Rachel. So like, yeah, I think a lot of what Rachel said earlier is those outside of, voices like really get to you and be like you can't get to know somebody that quickly yeah and I'm like maybe you can like when you're that open and honest and like rachel was and everything that she shared and i got to know about her was who she was and i guess i just needed to validate that for

myself promise i did not do any research i actually think i told you i i went out of my way to make sure i didn't know anything about him yeah because i wanted it to be as authentic as possible yeah Because to me, the concept of the show is crazy that you have women and men just sitting on their couch watching the show for 10 weeks. And they're watching this person who becomes the lead. And then they go on the next season. So they're like, I feel like I already know you. I know everything about you. I watched you on my TV for 10 weeks straight.

Like, let's get married. I'm obsessed with you. You know? And so I really loved how he was never on the show prior either. Because I, you know, we didn't know anything about him at this point. He was never on a previous season. There was nothing to judge him off of, you know, previous episodes. And then you were announced in like June, I think, June or July.

And I just told myself, and I didn't even know if I was going to be on the show until two weeks before we had to leave for it. So they gave you the contract and then two weeks later you're off and you're filming. And so when he was announced, I was like, wow, he's very attractive. I got a little more excited about it. I think at first I was like, this is crazy. Like, do I really want to do this? Yeah.

And I didn't even know if they were going to pick me. But then when they announced him, I was like, oh, wait. Yeah, I hope I did on. Yeah. I was like, wait, he's really cute. How does it feel now for Y'all's relationship that you guys have kind of diversified your brand? Like, your brand is not your relationship.

That's another thing that when you said earlier, like, it's nice to know that you guys have like kind of backed off the show a little bit. When people come up to us and they're like, we love you guys on TikTok, like we love our food stuff. Yeah, that's great. They don't even, I bet there's some girls or some people that follow you on TikTok that are so young that maybe they didn't even like watch the show. I get those comments sometimes. They're like, they'll say something about the show and then people under that comment will be like, wait, she was on The Bachelor. And same thing with him. They have no idea. Which is so great. And to be honest, I get that like not doing, even for our podcast, when y'all said you were coming on the show, I was like, okay, I don't want to go research everything. I want it to be authentic. And it's okay to not know everything and learn in a moment. I think people feel that. And I did watch the show.

Like, you know, I skipped a couple episodes here and there. So, like, I do remember things kind of vaguely. But so I get that. But that's, okay, so y'all got off the show. You went through your breakup. You ended up back together. If he broke up with you, why did you still lean in? I mean, was it just truly like you felt called to Matt?

Yeah, I just loved him. I just feel like I'm not someone that not, and I'm not saying he did this. I feel like he was in a total. totally different situation than I was. He had so much pressure on him. But I'm just not someone that will give up very easily or like I'm not just going to walk away from something if I truly believe in it. And so with us, like I just felt that connection I've never felt in my life. And it also just felt like there was so much pressure from like the outside, but not in our relationship. Like when it was just us too. It was perfect. Like there was nothing, you know, making us feel like,

Okay, maybe I don't know. Or, you know. Yeah. You're not who I thought you were. It was all social media. Posting ghost, baby. I started doing that this year. I'm different human.

Right? Because you're not sitting there. I don't know what they're saying. It's probably not great. I'm like, I'm oblivious. I like posting and then throw my phone across the room for a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. You know what's funny about that?

Sometimes with in our relationship, like, you'll have people that like getting back to like doing it for us. Uh-huh. Like, you'll have people that'll comment like, like, Like, I hate you. Like, I can't believe you did this. I can't believe you do that? Three years later, like, oh, like you. Oh, yeah.

No. We'll see DMs. The receipts on this girl's DMs are insane. It's like, you're the worst mom in the entire world. Like, I wish to be as selfless of a mother as you are. And I'm like, these people, like, it's, but it's what I've learned those two years is that it's not personal. Like, they are not, when people are commenting or making assumptions about any of our lives. It is so like we are a product for their entertainment.

We're not a real person. It is not a real person. It is just like, this is how I'm going to interact with you. And I had a bad day because this mom cut me off at my kids pickup. And I'm going to, boom, I'm going to take it out on Matt James today. And it's like, it's just not personal. And that's why I think we went through the same era that you guys probably did where it was like, it was truth to us. Like what people were saying was 100% truth.

And it was like, oh, we have to change this. And I think at a certain point, we were like, whoa, we're giving these, this, this joint crowd source voice that doesn't know us. It's probably just having a bad day. So much energy. I don't know. For me, I think I was a little bit ahead of you in the Post and Go strategy. I think she sometimes will sneak it in bed and look at the DMs and be like, oh my gosh, they hate me. I'm like, they don't.

It's a pen. I feel like that is just us as women, too, because I feel like, I don't know. because he's better at it than me too. I'm just so emotional and I really want everyone to like me. Right? If you don't have it like, I don't want to hurt anyone. Yes, I like try to just show love to everyone because, you know, I would obviously want the same for me. But I also just, I think that it bothers me if someone says that they hate me and I'm like, but why?

Like you don't know me. Like text me and tell me why. But if you can't text me, then like, yeah. then you don't know me. Yeah, it's hard. And so it's a hard pill to swallow. Yeah. Do you feel healthier with it now? Like, I mean, it seems like y'all's relationship is not about the bachelor's. It's like, oh, y'all are just the fun TikTok couple now. So I'm sure that's a lot better for the health of your relationship. I want to say it doesn't affect me as much, but sometimes I wonder if it doesn't affect me as much just because it's not as bad now or it's not as frequent. But yeah, sometimes,

like, I just don't look. I do exactly what you say. I can't remember the last time I've like scrolled through my DMs because like for me it's very triggering. Like yeah. It's just such a and they're probably like the few times I do. I would say 99% are so nice. Yeah, of course. We've quantified this by the way. We've counted all of her DMs because she kept being like, oh my gosh.

It's the one. Half my audience hates me. And we quantified it over like a two month period and it was it's always less than one percent. I have a chart in my phone. That's crazy. A chart in my phone that shows the month-to-month sentiment analysis so that I can always pull it out and be like January, February, March, April, less than one person. I love that.

I have a special gift, though, where I can open my DMs and I just click on one and it will be the me. No, she's gifted. She finds it. I am like I will find the meanest worst thing that somebody has said about me that day. And it will be the only DM that I decide to open that day. It's like the 99 nice comments. And then the one, that's the one you remember for the rest of the day, which sucks.

But that's how my brain operates sometimes. I'm trying to get better with it. If someone's nasty, then I'll just block them though. Yeah. Love the block. If someone's like saying, if someone doesn't like the way I eat or like what I'm wearing, like freedom to have that banter. Like I don't care.

Like I probably don't am not the best dress. Rachel will attest. But if you're nasty and like hateful and hurtful, then like I don't want to have a space to like promote that type of. You can control it. People get so upset whenever you do. block or delete. I'm like, well, go to somebody else's page. It's my page. It's my comments. I get comments like, please tell Matt to unblock me. And I never apply that I want,

I want to tell people, like, you probably did something or said something really mean for him to block you. Like, he's not just blocking you for fun and be mean at my home. Right. You got get out of my home. Right. I have way different ratios than you guys, but on my Instagram, like I get like the most vehement of Danny's people. Yeah, yeah. And sometimes they're really nice. They're like, hey, Danny won't see this. So will you tell her I love her? I'm like, okay, Danny, they love you. But most of the time, I have like five people that are like my OG haters. And to be clear, I have like 20 DMs total.

But these five people, I try and like, it's like a social experiment where I try and rationalize with them. And they'll be like, I hate you for this arena. I'll be like, okay, but like here's another perspective. And I can tell you that rationalizing will ever work. I'm just saying that for the internet to hear. It won't ever work. And it waste a lot of time. I'm not turning these people.

Oh, you DM them back. That's what I'm saying. I tried to rationalize with them. I was like, hey, we have long conversations going. And it just, it never works. Have you ever had the one DM though where it's like, I've done us a few times. Now I just block. But if someone says something or comments something or DM something mean, there were a few times

where I would reply and like just acknowledge that I saw it. Yeah. Like I would. And sometimes it just be like, okay, thanks. Have a good day. And then sometimes I'd be like, you know, this was like really hurtful. Like, are you okay? Did something happen today?

And every single time they're like, oh my gosh. Nice. I'm so sorry. I am having a horrible day. It's not you. I'm so sorry. I love you. And it's crazy.

It's like as soon as you acknowledge them and show that you're a real person, then they feel bad. Not always. Sometimes they're in it. Sometimes they're in it. I'm just taking it on too logically. Yeah. But honestly, like, listen, they don't know who I am.

Like, I'm on this podcast, but not really much else. So like if they're coming after me from Danny's, they are, I'm getting the most intense haters that she has for sure. Because they're going out of their way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're like, they're like, I've already tried with her.

She blocked me. I'm coming after me. That's so crazy. Yeah. They're not getting enough like appeal from Reddit probably. Yeah. It's crazy. So how long have you guys been dating now?

Well, if you don't count. Well, filming was after the show. After the show. So that was 2021 when we got back together. So what is that? Three years? What are your thoughts on marriage slash marrying each other? Nice, Danny.

I have the finger ready. Okay, okay. No, I feel like that's definitely something we want. I'm on his time. Yeah. But my problem is I definitely need to go find a ring I like and everything. But that's on him at that point, you know? Yeah, I'm looking at you.

No, I think that's the next step. He like gets down to look at a ring. We have the best clip of ever de-influenced history. Wait, that's never here. Wait, I'm finished. She was talking. Oh my God, he pulls out a ring. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

I'm like, clip that, clip that. I, having had so many of Rachel's friends go through engagements, I wouldn't dare go look at a ring without consulting Rachel first. That's a problem. I don't even know what I want. And I'll say this. I love the idea of, like, getting married or just, like, being, having that commitment to one another. And, like, kids and family really excite me.

But the idea of planning a wedding really puts me off. Like, sometimes I'm like, let's just a loat. Do it. Wait, so you're telling me right now. Invite us, but, like, yeah. You're telling me the, right now, the biggest thing holding us back is a ring. Yeah, probably just going and looking at your ring. Well, I'm saying, I don't know, he's the one that's got to get down on a knee and ask.

But I'm saying, like, that's saying, like, That's probably the first thing we need to do is go look at it. Because y'all also live in different cities right now. We say that, but so I have my spot in Georgia just because that's what makes the most sense for my life, like just to be close to family and friends because I have nowhere else to be. Like no other city makes sense. Yeah. But I feel like he's a big Florida guy, one for tax purposes, I would say.

No, not for tax purposes. I just love Florida. It's near the water. Good ball. He's like the IRS is listening. Good gall. Rachel, don't say that. You can clip it.

But I say that to say, we do spend more time in Georgia than Florida. That's kind of where I was going with that. I just mind living in Florida. I do have family in Florida. And I feel like I don't think he'd want to like settle or put roots down in Georgia. So I would be okay with going to Florida because one is so close. But two, like I would rather be in that climate than like a cold climate. I would much rather be in Miami than New York as much as I love New York.

Is Miami the spot? That's where he. Yeah, but it's like, it's just a for now spot. Like it's because we travel so much. It's nice when you've been traveling to go home and literally you look out the window and there's water and, you know, it's. It feels like we're on vacation. Yeah. It's so nice to go home and it's like.

You run that trail on the beach? Oh, of course. Yeah. Yeah. I ran that a lot. You did? Yeah, I love that trail. It's so nice.

It's humid though, man. Yeah. It's really humid. But I have such dry hair. and dry skin. That's nice. You're glowing there. I like it.

So honestly, I can see us ending up there. I feel like we don't talk too much about, we probably should talk more about like, okay, where are we going to like plant roots? Because I'm like itching for knowing us will probably have a few spots because we won't be able to decide. But yeah, that would be a dream actually if we could like do a, what is it called? Like a, not bicostal, but, you know, some people like go back and forth. Yeah, snowbirds.

Yeah. I like that idea. Yeah. So, because I do, we've been talking for so long. I'm so sorry. Like, we never talk to. We can see you all there. What is like, what's going on career wise for both of y'all? Because I also want you to like talk about and promote whatever you're doing. So people know about it. I would say, well, I mean, I'll let you go first. I feel like food wise. I don't know what you, what your goal is. Yeah, what's your goal in life. My goal in life. I think that my goal in life is to have autonomy of my schedule. Like I just want to be able to do whatever I want to do with my. family at any time and not feel restricted by work. So, like, whether that's owning 10 banana stands, like it doesn't matter. Like, I have zero ego. Whatever I can do to make that happen, I will do. And if it's, you know, posting on social media, then that's amazing because I love editing videos. I love being creative. I love trying new things with Rache. And it brings me joy. Like, it's really

fun to do. And there's things I did before that I thought where I was chasing money, where I was in banking and real estate. And it never brought me as much joy as, you know, gorge in pizza. We're just very blessed. Like when you really think about it, we're so blessed to be able to do what we do. Because I'm sure, I'm not saying everyone would want to do it, but we do love being able to, you know, do whatever we want and having, like Matt said, autonomy of our schedule to where that's just something we probably both want to continue. Yeah. Are you influencing like full time?

Yes. Okay. Yeah. So honestly like right after the show as soon as I knew it was possible, I was like, okay, let's send it. What were you doing before? I was, oh my gosh, I was doing advertising for a mortgage company. It's not very fun.

Yeah. Yeah. So I had like just finished getting my master's for graphic design. Oh, okay. And so it was just, it was like, I was a, about to send it, but then the show happened. And then I feel like I sometimes apply, though, what I learned through school with like what we do. I love, like Matt said, like it's really fun to be creative and, you know, even just like editing our videos or something. Like, it's just

all fun. The banana stands are going to need a logo. I know. See, I would love that. No comic sans fonts. She's against it. Oh my gosh. And that actually is probably such a banana stand font. Yeah. But honestly, I'm not saying, like this is just. more of like a joke than anything but I think it would be really fun at some point in our life if it's possible to have some sort of like restaurant concept. Cool. I have like a fake menu in my notes that and anytime like I think of something that's like something we love so much. I'm like, okay, this must be added to the menu. But it's nothing

more than that. It's just something fun. But if like later in life, if it's something we want to do. Yeah, I think that could be fun. But right now, like, Matt said, we're just really enjoying getting to do what we do. Because we don't even know how long we'll be able to do it. Well, Danny talked about, you were talking about, you asked about marriage. Yeah. And I've been hinting, I've been hinting at marriage for a very long time. And I don't think Rachel is taking my serious. And I'll, and I'll explain why. He's been like thinking about this as I've been yapping. No, it's just something that I've known. And I just want to reiterate it so that it's on record now for you. Okay. I like that. I, I'm. I'm.

I'm obviously a couple years older than you. Oh, I know. No, just hear me out. Just hear me out. I'm a couple of years older than you. And women tend to outlive the men because of, I don't know why, but that's typically how it goes. And I've fully embraced being a stay-at-home dad.

I will stay home and take care of the kids. So I'm trying to, I'm going to empower you. And Danny's taking it upon herself to start this hair care. Yeah, wait, you can be my, what is it? Monumentous brand and I'm going to be here to support that for you. Like, you need to start a brand so I can retire. You know this every week. I thought he's about to say something really sweet.

You can join our end. The club is wide open. We're taking new members. No, he really does meet with like Instagram husbands and they, it's like a support group. And they all support each other. See, he loves them. It's Tuesday. We meet on Tuesday nights.

We're not even kidding. We need to find a house in Highland Range. You need to make it tonight? Is it Tuesday? Yeah, it really is. Is it Tuesday? Yeah, I think so. There's like five of them and they all just go support each other and we're a little bit more.

So I've been doing this since I was 19. That's amazing. That's crazy. I'm like 12, almost 13 years in. And so we're a little like ahead of the game and just in terms of like we've been through a lot. We've seen it all. Yeah. And so Jordan, these guys reached out to Jordan and he like mentors them.

Because a lot of it. You can be my mentor for a brand. They're also like my friends. I don't want a position that it's like, you said I mentor them. They would probably say the same thing, but they're also my friends. So I don't want to insult them. But yes, there's a lot of dynamics that are introduced when you work with your spouse.

And a lot of them are just not used to it yet. No, it's not business mentorship. It's like relationship. Yeah. Like marriage. And also. We talk about the industry too. Yeah, you talk about the industry.

But also we have two kids. And so a lot of them have like newborns or babies. And so they're figuring it out. So yeah, you're welcome. Yeah. You're welcome to join. Send you the invite. He always says that.

He's like, you come up with something and I'm going to stay home with the kids. And I come back with, well, you need to put a ring my finger when you get married and then have babies and bowl. And then we'll talk about it. You know, we're way, way past. Or not there yet. If you ever have any ideas, let me know. I love this stuff. I do have some ideas.

But I, like the idea of even starting something is very overwhelming because I just, I mean, I literally went to school for business. And I still have no idea how I could even start. any of that. I have ideas, but that's all they are right now. That will be really fun whenever y'all come together and work on something together, like, whether it's your restaurant, whether it's your banana stands, whatever it is. Like it's, it's, super. I know. I was like kind of like, okay. That was very specific. A lot of people like them. A lot of people consume bananas. They are probably like one of them is like that they have those in Austin. I'm obsessed. That's my dessert. Did you ever have the, oh, the Trader Joe's ones, the bites. The.

The ones that I get are called Diana's bananas. Sponsor me. Okay. They're so good. I don't know where I even, I think they're at public. They're at like a lot of grocery stores. But they're like a banana on a stick. See, all you need to start something like that.

And then retail. So good. Go retail. Cheap entry point. Because restaurants are a lot. Maybe the binned, this is full circle. Maybe it is banana. We need a product.

I endorse it. Anyway, this has been so great. Do you have any other questions? I am questioned out. No, I'm questioned out. This is this is, this is, this is, This is the longest episode we've ever done. This is the longest episode.

No, this has been such a great episode. Like, we really, I barely even looked at my notes. I put it down. An hour and a half again. That's when you know. That's what you know. But thank you guys so much for also answering some of the deeper questions. Of course.

I try to go there sometimes, but not push too much. I love it. I can talk deep all day. I feel like for men, it's like not as easy. Yeah, but I love when I feel like it's so good for everyone. For what it's worth, we endorse you guys as a couple. We think you guys should get married. I think it's a strong partnership, strong team.

We're here for it. But yeah, thank you guys for coming. Where can people find you guys? Okay. Rachel Kirkconnell, just my full name for Instagram. And then someone pretended to be me on TikTok. So I didn't get my name on TikTok. I hate that.

Still trying to figure that out. So TikTok is Rachel underscore Kirkconnell. And then Matt, same thing but YouTube too. Yeah. TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, Matt James 919. 919. All right. Well, thank you guys for listening to this episode. Feel free to leave a comment and make sure that you check out Matt and Rachel's channels and we'll talk to you later. Bye. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and

services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.