De-Influenced with Dani + Jordan - Dibs, (fake) Diplomas, & Divorce with Courtney Shields

Episode Date: October 4, 2023

Hope you're ready for a little change-up because this week we have the one, the only, Dibs Beauty Founder- Courtney Shields! Sit back and relax as Dani and Jordan give Courtney the space to "De-Influence" herself and share some crazy and personal stories along the way. Go to naturalcycles.com/dani or use code DANI to receive 20% off an annual subscription. Disclaimer that Natural Cycles is for those 18+ and does not protect against STI’s. Grab your Liquid IV Hydration Sugar-Free in bulk nationwide at Costco or you can get 20% off when you go to liquidiv.com and use code DANI at checkout. For a limited time new customers can go to homechef.com/DANI for 18 free meals plus free shipping on your first box

Hello guys and welcome back to your favorite podcast. Deinfluids. Oh, she killed that. She killed it. You guys, we have the one and only Courtney Shields today on the podcast. I'm so excited that you're here. Courtney and I, we actually go kind of way back. Yeah, back to your Austin days.

Back to Austin days. How long ago did we meet? Like, what year was that? Had to have been probably like at least 2017, right? No, before that. Before that? Because we moved to Dallas. in 2017.

I can't remember what event we were at, but we met. I remember like standing outside. We had this whole conversation. We have a selfie that you were wearing a hat. I was great. Cultivate. I was there. No. No, you were, I remember like one specific time.

It was a long time ago. Were we really dressed up? Yes. I think it was like Austin Fashion Week or something. Probably. Was it? Those were good days. Those were days.

Those were days. So first of all, I want you to kind of explain, you know, what you do, who you are because just a fun fact, Whenever you Google you, it says Courtney Shields is an influencer blogger, singer, songwriter, female entrepreneur, mom, and you have five IMDB credits. This is new. I don't know that. What are they? What are they? You don't even know?

I've had songs that have been on shows. So maybe it's that. Maybe that's what it is. That would make sense because I was going to ask you. I was an extra one time on the lying game. Remember that show on the CW? No. Yeah.

I do remember that. That wasn't like too long ago, right? I've long enough. Was it? It was a while. Well, it's pretty impressive. Okay, yeah. So tell everybody what you do.

My name is Courtney Shields. I used to be a singer-songwriter, but I've been influencing and doing social media before. This is really a thing, probably a similar time to you, 10 years now. 10 years. 10 years now. And then I co-founded a brand called dibs about two years ago. Yeah.

So you started in 2012 or 2013? 2014, I think. January will be. Oh, yeah. So that makes sense. So I've been doing this for a 11 years. for 11 years. It's crazy.

Wow. Like, do you ever look back at your first YouTube? Because didn't you start on YouTube? I started on Instagram and a blog. And my first blog posts, you guys, I used to make my now ex-husband. He would take photos of me outside between, like, where we lived in this apartment, we lived in Dallas. Yeah.

We lived in, we lived here. That's right. Yeah. And this apartment basically outside downstairs, we would walk down the stairs before we went out and did whatever we were doing for the day. Yeah. And we would go to where they had this like semi-aesthetically. pleasing like, you know, brick wall or something, it was right by the dumpster.

And I took all of your photos were right by the dumpster. But it was aesthetic. Maybe it was limestone. I mean, it was what I had to work with at the time, you know. So you started on Instagram, but then like what? In a blog, like an actual blog. Right, because we were all blogging back then. Yeah.

But what made it kind of take off? Like when were you like, okay, I could do this as a job? I think right around the time that I was getting pregnant. Okay. That's when it started to like become full. time. Were Instagram stories a thing? Instagram stories were a thing, but I think the craziest part is that I remember, like having a big enough community at the time when Instagram stories came out to, to think to myself, like, wow, I think there was like 40,000 people or 50,000 people. And I was like,

none of these people have ever heard me talk. Yeah. And it felt like so much pressure to like raise the phone up and be like, hey, it's me. But wait, you had been on YouTube. You started on YouTube. No, she didn't start on YouTube. No, I didn't start on YouTube. But I still felt like at the time, it wasn't necessarily like all the same audience. Even now I feel like that. Like TikTok has grown a lot. And there's people that go to, that are like on all the platforms, but there's some people that are just on TikTok or just on Instagram. So at least I knew that there was like a chunk of people that had never heard me speak. And I was walking into a wreck basketball game. And I just remember being like, it's awkward. It's totally different. I think because I started on YouTube and then,

and then I switched to Instagram and blogging, like I was kind of comfortable with it. Yeah. But you, I don't know why. Like when I think of you, I think of YouTube. I used to definitely do YouTube. You did. I wish, I kind of miss YouTube. I love those days. You should bring it back. We were actually talking about that yesterday.

We were talking about it too. Bandwidth. Like how do you guys do so much, don't you? Well, a lot of people, I'm kind of scared because I do feel like with the algorithm with Instagram, like I don't know if you feel this, but I feel like more people are transitioning to TikTok. And I feel like a lot of people are kind of like looking for a new platform. And I think YouTube is going to like have a resurgence.

I can see that. Think about it. If they took away stories, like how would we talk to our people? people. Yeah, we wouldn't. Like, who are we? Who are we? Who are we? Who are we? Just somebody's neighbor. Just somebody's neighbor. We were talking about that because Courtney pulled up to our house and we just put out our porch pumpkins. We go all out. I'll tell you the reason why. I mean, it's iconic. This is the best porch and the neighborhood people. Well, the funny thing is I don't decorate for like any holiday except for fall. I go like all out. Not Christmas? That

surprises me. I do, but like I don't go like 100%. Got it. So last year, the, cutest little girl. Do you remember this? She knocked on our front door and first of all asked me if I could, if she could organize any of my closets for me. And I was like, no, no, like I'm good, but thank you. And she said, well, I really just wanted to come over here to tell you that I love your pumpkins on your front porch. And they make me so happy. So now every fall, I'm like, oh my gosh, that girl, like she's expecting the pumpkins. Did she come back? We'll see her this year. Hopefully. You can't let her down. I hope so. That's true, though, because there's actually around Christmas, there's specific houses that Kinsley and I will always drive by.

Yeah. She's like, there's the house with the rainbow lights, like, we have to go. And if they didn't put those rainbow lights up, like they are kind of letting us down. She's like, yeah. She's upset, you know? So you're here in Dallas for how long? Just today to see you and tomorrow. Tomorrow?

Yeah. Are you leading tomorrow night? Mm-hmm. Flying out late. Do you want to tell people about our event? Yeah, I'm super excited. I mean, I think that this has kind of been a long time in the making, right? Yeah.

Because we were friends, obviously, for years. prior to all this and then I feel like it just makes sense. Yeah, of course. And I'm so excited to meet everybody. We're having an event at a coffee shop. People had to get tickets, but not pay for them. It's just like they had to sign up to get a headcount, I think. And it's going to be a lot of fun.

We're going to do like a bundle together so you can get it discounted if you get the Dib's desert stick, rush, and then our scalp serum. Iconic. And it's at La La Land, which I know you've been to. I love that cafe. And it's so cute. It's everyone in there is so nice. I bought a sweats,

true last time because I liked it so much. It's probably one of my favorites and I'm like one of those girls that likes all my sweet creative coffees and they do some really fun stuff. So they're having a special divby coffee and a dips coffee. Oh really? Or at least like special drinks. We're going to get our drink some. Yeah we are. I'm excited and so yeah. I have to ask this because it's been I've been dying. Are you still I think he's been looking up the IMDB thing. Were you on a show called pie day? No. Five alarm funk. No. Wait. Derek and Sally bathtub killers. No.

This is your IMDB profile, but it must not be you. That's so strange. Maybe there's a different Courtney Shields. It's all like, and it can't be your music because it was like 2005, 2008, 2013. That sounds like a messy IMDB. Yeah. Messy. If you were on these shows, you can tell us here.

Yes. You know what guys. She's like, she's like I tried and I didn't make it as an actress. Can you imagine? I don't think I could make it as an actress. to be honest. I'm a terrible liar. Like, yes, the minute I try to like fib about anything, people that really know me, they're like, why are you lying? And I'm like, shit.

Yeah, you're like looking down. What about reality TV though? Wait, can I cuss or no? You're going to bleed me out. You can be you. You do you. This is your platform to de-influence yourself. Got it.

Yeah. Perfect. We're here to show people the real Courtney Shields. I'm in. Reality TV, though. I feel like you'd kill it. Yeah, you turned it down, actually. Really?

Yes. Why? You would kill it. I feel like now. Nowadays, a lot of people do reality to get a following. And I think when you already have a following, what's the point? Yeah, like, what's the point?

And also, you realize that they can sort of frame anything. They can completely take it out of context. Like, I don't know. I just didn't really see the point. And I feel, too, like, when you already have a following, you realize how much, if that multiplies, you realize, like, what that could look like. And I've always said, like, I want to reach as many people as I can

in, like, a healthy way. Because whether it's, like, from stories I've had, like whether it's been like grief or entrepreneurship or things that I really want to make a positive impact with or even like silly things like you know silly little fun like teaching people teaching women how to feel beautiful through tips and tricks like makeup stuff which is why I started all this in the first place yeah I want to do that for as many people as I can but there is like a scary level of that that I don't have interest in that is so true like there's a level of people like Taylor Swift can't leave her house without like that's scary I mean obviously that's never going to happen to me

but you know what I'm saying no at that point it's like not even fun anymore Correct. But I do, I totally agree. I feel like I can still be myself. I feel like I can say things that I want to say. Sometimes I admit things that I don't know about. Like, like probably two or three weeks ago, we were talking about vaccines. Like if I was Taylor Swift, like, there's things that you would just not talk about because you don't want to go. Yeah, you don't want to go there. And so I feel like what's so nice about being in the space that we're in is like you can learn and change with your audience. And hopefully there's going to be some of those people, but they're not going to like hold you to every single little thing that maybe you said five years ago. Because. they understand like you're evolving like you're sharing your life every single day like people change i actually have a funny story relating to that yeah i remember when certain people were getting like canceled and called out for things like their um twitter yeah and i have my i don't have my twitter login i can't log in my twitter and all of a sudden i had this like here moment where i was like what did i say on twitter like 14 years ago because i have no idea i'm the exact same i was like love and light everybody have a great day like positivity i'm thinking

of you. Like, that's all my tweets. I love that. Well, yeah. I think my most negative tweet. Most people were not like that. My most negative tweet is literally me being like karma. Like that's the only tweet.

Hashtag karma. Yeah, like you get them, girl. Do you remember Danny when we scrolled back through your Instagram what we found? Do you remember this picture? So we scrolled during the cancellation phase 2020, 2020, 2021. Yeah. We scrolled back and it took like, you know, seven, like 70 swipes to get back. And the very first.

photo we saw was Danny holding this huge revolver? No. And I was like, oh, at the frame. No. My dad would always take me to the shooting range. Like, it was just something you do in Texas. Think about. Like, things that you don't even think about are all of a sudden, like, very offensive.

Right. Yeah, but like things also changed. Like, back then, like you kind of looked at things differently. I don't know. It was a mess. That was a funny one. Yeah. If you were to be on a reality TV show, which one it would be?

Like, if you were like, hey, we're going to make you the next bachelor, would you take it? Hell no. No? No. Is it just because of the audience you require? It's funny because people DM'd me about that a lot. I had like a period in time where I was talking about like dating in Austin and how much it sucks and just like dating in general in your 30s is different. I want to know why.

You have to be built different to date in your 30s. But a lot of people were either like go to Danny and have Danny set you up or go on The Bachelor. But that just terrifies me. I also think a lot of times and I have friends that are on reality or like have been and like I think that's great. but I think at the same time a lot of times you're like thrown a following and you're not prepared to like stuartner nation I think is like very vicious yeah tough it's a tough audience for sure they're super judgmental too yeah so that I just don't have like a lot of interest in you know you can call us though we'll definitely do the matchmaker we'll reboot it you just scared you just let us know

we're one we're one phone call away all right why is that song playing in my head now um what about like TikTok because we've always felt like TikTok's a more vicious platform than Instagram. I love TikTok. See, that's so far. I love it. I felt like it was a fresh start for me. I felt like it was almost a reboot. I think the thing about Instagram that I sometimes struggle with is that 2014, Courtney,

when Courtney started Instagram, was getting, or like engaged about to be married. I guess I probably had just gotten married in 2014, but I was in such a different place in my life. Yeah. My dad hadn't died. I was married. I was just starting things. Like everything was so different at the time.

And I think fast forward now, the thing is, is that candidly, like, I wouldn't want to be 2014, Courtney. She was great. But, like, I'm proud of the person that I'm evolved into. I'm proud of the person that I've become over time through trials and tribulations and some pretty dark shit, honestly. Yeah. And I'm proud of the person that I am today. And so I wouldn't want to go back. But I think sometimes when people start following you, they expect you to be and they want you to be exactly who you were 10 years ago.

And I don't think it's a fair, like, expectation to put on people in TikTok. I didn't feel that way. I felt like I got to start fresh, start at zero, and just come on with, because I always am who I am. Like, I've always been very transparent and honest about who I am along the way. But I think some people grasp onto, like, older versions of me. And I think TikTok didn't have that. They just saw me today.

And so I think I really curated an audience who loved me today. So you feel like the audience is totally different? I think there is definitely crossover. but I think it almost has crossover both ways. Like some people from Instagram have come to TikTok and some people from TikTok have come to Instagram and I think that's made both of them a lot more enjoyable. But because I'll always love Instagram.

That's like my first place in many ways. But I just think people have a tendency, whether it's like style or relationship status or anything, right? I think people have a tendency to hold on to like older versions of us. I don't know if you've felt that too. Oh, yeah. I mean, how do you deal with? that whenever you get comments that are like, man, I miss the old Courtney. I mean, I get comments

like that all the time. Or remember when you said this or you seem different. Why are you changing? Why do you feel like you have to change, Danny? Like, how do you deal with those type of comments? At the end of the day, I always live my life in a way where I can lay my head down at the end of the day and feel good. Put my head on my pillow, go fast asleep. If I've lived my life like that, I'm happy. So I know at the end of the day that the changes that I've made are positive. changes. If someone else is committed to misunderstanding that, that's kind of on them. What are some of the changes? Some of the changes that I've made. From 2014, Courtney, to now. I think I'm a lot, I'm a little harder, I would say.

Like, tougher? Tougher. Why? Why do you think? I think I've just been through a lot. I think it's hard to like get divorced, lose your dad, lose your brother-in-law, you know, like it's all of a sudden, like become a mom, which obviously is an amazing thing. but these are all like life things that occur. And I think it's hard to go through all those things and not change a little as a person. Yeah. You know,

but I think that they've ultimately shaped me into who I am. And again, I'm really proud of the person that I am because I think I'm a lot, I think I'm a lot kinder and more patient than I was, but tougher, if that makes sense. Yeah. Like I think I'm more guarded.

It's like harder to crack me a little bit. And I think I've learned to become more, private about certain things because I'm sure you guys have experienced this too, but a lot of, a lot of the world that we live in is a double-edged sword. People say, I want you to be transparent. I want you to be honest. I want you to, you know, say how you feel and like, what have you had done? Tell us about your boobs. Tell us by your lips. Like all this. But then I'm honest and then people are pissed. Yeah. So like, why are you encouraging people to change their body or do this? Do you want me to be honest or do you not want me to be honest? Yeah. Do you, if your Instagram audience was sitting in that chair

next to you. Like, what do you think is their biggest misunderstanding about you? This is a really good question. I've been wanting to ask you this for so long. I think that in the past, things have happened. People have made up things and I know that it's not what happened. And anybody knows me. That knows me knows that that's not what happened or that's not the situation. People know that know me, know my character. But because I haven't spoken out about things, I think it's almost been viewed as, it's been viewed negatively. It's almost been viewed as like an admission of guilt. When really, the way that I was raised was like, if you don't have something nice to say,

don't say anything at all. I was very much raised like take the high road, turn the other cheek. If someone is talking negatively about you, spreading rumors, like, don't give it light. Don't give it life. Don't like go back at them and encourage. Like don't fight fire with fire. Right. And we've all had those moments, right, where we fight fire with fire.

That's human. but I think a lot of times in specific past scenarios I have chosen to stay quiet about something because I thought that it was like the kinder more graceful way to handle it. I was trying to be the bigger person but I think that's been viewed as oh she did something wrong because she's not saying anything.

So you've been painted the villain a lot more than you feel like is fair? Like all of the time. All the time. I think a lot of times things get really misconstrued and it's just not simply not true and the shit that I've read is hilarious. And I don't read like anything negative.

I just totally stay away from it. But when it comes in your DMs or whatever, you know. Like what he's supposed to do. Yeah, you obviously don't know. That's what you're opening up. Sometimes you open it up. Someone, we were just talking about this, Kirsten and I earlier,

but someone said because I don't ever drive. They're like, oh, she must have a DUI. That's what happened. Oh my gosh. It's just that Audrey likes to drive. And you get to work and first it. And I'm being productive and I'm doing my thing. But I've never once, because of how I was raised,

this was like a major thing. I've never once been drunk and got. behind the wheel of a car ever. Yeah. So it's such a hilarious thing to say, because like if you've met me, I was the girl that was standing in front of my friend's cars in high school taking their keys.

It's like a notorious thing. My dad used to say, I know that you're going to go out sometimes. Here's your curfew, obviously. We know that you're going to be at a party. You're going to have a drink. We're not encouraging this, but we simply know that it's going to happen.

If it ever happens, call me. Do not drive no matter what you do. Call me. I'll pick you up. I don't care where you are. You can be two hours away at a lake house. You could be downtown. You could be at your friends.

10 minutes away, I'll come pick you up. Yeah. Period. And we did it all the time. My friends and I would call my dad and he would say, you're not going to be in trouble as long as you call me. Yeah. So I was raised where this was like a pillar.

This was like a no-no. Like a major no-no. And so stuff like that is just funny. Yeah. But I think we live in a weird world. People can say whatever they want. Yeah. It can have zero validity.

I know you guys have dealt with us a lot as well. It can have zero validity, but people can still say it and now it's out there. So I think like ultimately the biggest misunderstanding is, like if I don't speak out about something that I'm guilty or I did something wrong or I did something mean or whatever it is and really it's like I'm trying to be the bigger person because I it's more about maturity than it is that's we've been talking about it a lot of like this industry is very weird because like perception equals reality and our job in so many ways is to

make sure that we're thinking of the perception that's put out there and if you kind of miss one story slide or two story slides of, you know, Danny holding Stratton, you know, but she's holding Stella, it's like, oh my gosh, you hate Stratton. And it's like, it's the amount of times you've all said that to me. I think that deep down people know that we're, it's not a great depiction of our entire day. Yeah, you hope.

You hope, but it is the form of, like, it's the medium that we're putting out. So it almost like is our job to make sure that we're, you know, putting out a message that we agree with. But I also think that's a really hard way to live. It's exhausting. If I woke up every day and thought, I have to say today what I think is going to like create this perception of me.

Like I would be such a shell of myself. Well, I think that that's what you are not doing. And I think that a lot of people in our industry do do that. And I feel like you're one of the ones that's like, you know what? I'm not going to do that. And I think a consequence or repercussion of that is like, oh, well, here's all these perceptions we're going to throw on you. Yes.

Which just has made you tougher. What's your enneagram? I was going to ask. I'm a two, a helper, a wing three. Really? Yeah, helper and an achiever. Wow. Yeah.

Really? I would have said eight. I would have said eight as well. Yeah. I mean, you're a challenger. But also, like, you have this toughness to you that, like, I admire that I want so badly. I think you're tough.

I am tough in a different way. In a different way, for sure. But, like, I crack. And if somebody is saying something mean to me, like, it will, it'll replay in my head all day long to where, like, I just want to. get offline like I'm not I have a couple of friends that are eights I know Darylans in eight my friend Sarah Rose is in eight like they can say like they can weather so much more of a storm than I can they're like well I know that's not true about me move on and I'm like man how can you

how can you just say that I have my moments I have my what do you feel like what is your moment like what are the things that that make you crack you crack that because I'm sure everybody like looks at you and they're like man she's so tough she's so confident she knows what she wants she just goes after it like yeah what are your weaknesses I guess do you have any of course this is this is the like terrible thing about our world I'm so I'll say it but I'm so reticent to say it because any time I've ever said like this is my insecurity or this is my weakness I feel like people come in they're like knife in the hole and twist it but they know how to do that anyway like they they are so it's incredible I'm like how did you find that deep insecurity in my soul people need some

hobbies it's crazy they just They know. They know. I think anything pertaining to Kinsley probably or just like being a parent. That's hard. Same. That's mine too. It is so hard to know like the reality of what goes on off camera.

And Kinsley is so special. She is the smartest, sweetest, kindest. Like she's just the best kid. And she's hilarious. And so whenever I post her, people are like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. Kinsley's the best. Like, why don't you show her more. She's so special.

And I'm like, that's why I don't show her more. Yeah. Because she's so special. Like I there's just part of me that's like as her mom. I'm like protect. And I think I have her 50% of the time. That's my like custody schedule via via divorce. And so it's usually Friday to Friday.

But we're flexible. So sometimes like this week she went to Alex a day early and next week she's coming a day early to me. So we kind of like swapped Thursdays because we're leaving for a trip. We're going on a family trip. And then I came here. So like we work with each other. We co-parent well together. That's been major.

And so a lot of times, again, it's what people don't see. When people don't see something, they assume. So I've had people be like, you never see your daughter because you don't show her. And it's like, she's here all the time. She comes to my house every day after school, not 50% of the time, every day. After school, I see her almost every day, at least for some amount of time and then fully for that half. But it's this perception of she's not there if I don't show her. But again, that can't, like in my core, like that can't drive me just to show her.

her more to prove a point. Like, I can't live my life like that. I appreciate that, honestly. You know? I feel like so, so basically misunderstood side number one is that you're actually more soft and sensitive than you let on. I don't know about that, but I think. Are you a cuddly person?

I love to cuddle, but only if I, like, really like someone. Like, if you're touching me, it's like, okay, when someone calls you like, babe, and you really like them, we're like, ooh, I love it. I call you babe and you don't like them. It's cringe. Ew, don't say that. Yeah. You know, so I think it depends on who it's coming from.

But I'm touchy for sure. Physical touch and words of affirmation are my love languages. Your two things. I mean, going back a little bit, what was your upbringing like? Amazing. I had a great childhood. I think that's why it was so hard, like when all the tough stuff happened. Because we didn't have like that much adversity growing up.

I had all of the regular stuff. Like I got teased for having a mustache. That was fun. Really? Yeah. You were popular in high school, though, right? I was in the popular group, but I wasn't like the most popular one in the popular group. And I was friends with everyone.

So I was friends with a bunch of different groups. So it was like I was in that group, but I was also part like, because I played sports, I played the cross. Like, so I was also part of so many other groups. Right. So I feel like kind of like I definitely was in that group, but not the person leading that group. So were you into music whenever you were in high school? Oh, yeah. Is that all you did?

I started writing songs when I was 12. Oh my gosh. And then playing guitar shortly after, I remember I had these like acrylic nails. I think I started playing guitar when I was 15. And I got these nails for homecoming or something, like whatever the dance is when you're a freshman. And my guitar teacher looked down at me and he was like, yeah, those aren't going to work. Yeah. So I was like, all right, mom, get the clippers.

You got to pick guitar or nails. We're back in our. How many songs have you written? In my life? Yeah. I mean, I went to Berkeley for four years straight. I know. That was one of the first things I learned about you.

You guys want to hear the story I've never told this publicly. Yeah. I didn't graduate college. And I didn't know this until about five months ago. Wow. That's actually a nightmare I have on a reoccurring basis. Everyone says that. And you know what?

It never makes me feel better. Whenever people are like, oh, I've dreamed of this. That's my character. No, I know. But I've woken up from like sweaty dreams being like, oh my gosh, I forgot. Well, because there's so many freaking credits and all these things you have to do. All you like miss one button and you're screwed. Yeah.

I've never told this. story. Wow. So how did you find out? So we were in the middle of our fundraise for Dibs. Okay. We're raising our series A with L. Catterton. Okay. Yeah, big dog. Very reputable. And because they're so reputable and such an amazing firm, they are very diligent about their diligence process. So one day I get a call from one of my co-founders. This is hilarious. Dan. You know, Debs is comprised of me, Jeff, Dan, and Ken, the co-founders of Tool. Bobby Brown and then obviously Jeff, our CEO, who you guys have met and my partner in crime for all the things. But I get a call from Dan. He's like, hey, do you have a minute? I'm like, yeah, what's up?

He's like, so I've been talking to El Catterton and something came back in the diligence and I'm sitting here racking my brain. What could it be? I've never been arrested. I've never really gotten in trouble. The worst thing I ever did in high school was I snuck out one time like around the corner and then came back. I don't do drugs. I'm like, I have never stolen anything. I don't do anything bad, to be honest. what could this be? I'm racking my brain. I've gotten a couple speeding tickets. They were in school zones. So that was fun. But all in all, like, what could this be?

So I'm racking my brain at this point. And he's like, so it looks like you didn't graduate college. And I'm like laughing hysterically. I went for four years. Of course I did. Like, what are you talking about? And he's like, no, it's it. For some reason, it's coming up like you didn't graduate college, but you did, right? And I'm like, yeah, obviously.

So he's like, okay, I'll go back to them and let them know like they miss something. I'm like, great, thanks. Hang up the phone. 30 minutes later, I start kind of like ruminating on the thought. I'm sitting there and I'm like, I call my mom and I'm like, Liz, I graduated, right? Like you checked that? Like I, because I had a graduation party. I walked at graduation.

I got a graduation present. Yeah. I'm sitting here like, you double check that, right? Because if you know me, this is something that I would do. Like I would absolutely, this would fall through the cracks. Yeah. I am really, really good at a lot of things. And then I'm really bad at just like basic stuff sometimes.

Yeah. Totally. Like if someone was like, like I have all of my bills like on auto pay. If someone was like where, who does your water bill? Like I would honestly say like I don't know. Like I set that up on auto pay. I'm just bad at like basic stuff like that. And like I can tell you how much it is, but I don't know where I don't know who does.

Like I don't know who's supplying the water. Right. And so this is so me. But I'm really hoping that I didn't really mess this up. And so I'm calling my mom. I'm like, yeah, you double check that right? And she's like, no. and I'm like, shit.

And so now I'm starting to stress out a little. And I'm like, well, there is that diploma hanging in my room somewhere. And she's like, no, that's what they give you when you walk. But that's like the fake one. It's the diploma that they give you. Wait, no, I'm scared about mine. I'm sure you're fine. It's like, it's a diploma that they give you the fake one that you walk across the stage.

They hand it to you. And then I call one of my friends who I went to Berkeley with. And I'm like, hey, who knows me also super well. And I'm like, you can't walk at Berkeley without. graduating can you and she's like yeah you can that's what I did and then I finished my credits after and now I'm thinking double shit so now I'm really getting I'm against like is it hot and here anyone else and so we're calling and we're like trying to reach the school and mind you berkeley college of music is the best modern music school in the world and it is run by musicians so

it's not the most organized place on the planet and so I call for like a week and a half and everybody's kind of waiting on me which makes this especially embarrassing because now like the whole diligence process is hanging by a thread on did quix and you graduate college. And Dan calls me back. He's like, hey, just say you know, like, nobody cares. It doesn't matter if you didn't graduate. It's just like, it's kind of funnier if you didn't.

It's just like you can't claim that you did if you didn't because you have to be upfront. And I'm like, yeah, of course. But like, I thought I did for the past 12 years. So finally I get a hold of Berkeley. They email me and they say, you did not graduate. You have, how many credits do you guys think I have left until I graduate? Three.

Well, isn't it like one class is four? Oh, oopsie, I don't, maybe I didn't graduate because I don't know. I would say 12. I have one credit left. Oh my gosh. One credit. Wait, you should do it. We'll guess what the one credit is.

Ensemble, which is band, which means I have to go to Boston first semester and be in a band. And I would have to go be the singer of a band. This would be the best content ever. You must. This is the new era of your brand for sure. So it's one credit. ensemble. Keeping me away from my birthday degree.

I need to call them and be like, look, guys, how do we sort this out? What is, what is Berkeley like? If I was going to not graduate, probably would have left a little sooner. Yeah. Yeah. Did you like it, though? I loved it. But there's this running joke.

That's a cool flex. If like you're into music, it's like a cool flex. It's a really prestigious school. Yeah, it's the best modern music school in the world. So it's like Juilliard for classical and then Berkeley for modern. But it's a running joke at Berkeley that if you, like none of the best people graduate, but usually it's because they go on. tour. So a ton of my good friends are now like in really well-known bands. They're traveling

around the world from Berkeley. It's like John Mayer went to Berkeley. My friend Bryce Vine, who was like my first date at Berkeley by the way. Now like a lot of people love Bryce. But who is he like a should I know? Yeah, look him up on Spotify. You'll know. Bryce Vine. If you hear it. It's a cool name. Like my one of my best guy friends is the keyboardist in Midland. It's like a bunch of people and none of them graduated. Yeah. But I thought I did. I really stuck it out.

So when you graduated, what was your plan? Were you going to do music? I was kind of unsure about it at the time. I was teaching kids, guitar, and piano, and I was working at Nordstrom. This is so funny because like, you're obviously such a musical person, but like, you don't really share that much about music. No, I think, well, okay. You gave us one song and then you just cut us loose.

To Jordan, do your homework. Two? I only heard messy. Messy. It was the worst. It was the more popular one, but yeah. There was a slower one, right? Well, maybe they're like a week apart.

Yeah, slower one. So maybe they were there a couple weeks apart, but there is two. Can confirm. I just remember the launch party. I was really bummed. I was invited. Next time. Hey, will there be a next time?

Yeah, will there be a next time? Not on the books. It's not like a never thing. Here's a thing. So I was teaching kids guitar and piano. I was selling makeup at Nordstrom. And I was almost like parallel tracking the two things like without knowing it, right? Was this in Austin?

Or where? Yeah. In Austin at the time. Had you met Alex? No. Okay. And then I started to realize, like, I was playing bars in Austin. I was, like, doing that whole thing.

I started to realize that a lot of what you, look, you guys get this. You're both very driven. I knew that I wanted to be really successful, whatever I did. I started to realize that being successful in music took certain things that I, like, wasn't willing to do oftentimes, right? Like, I didn't love, like, the moral aspect of being a woman in the music industry. and I also looked, I think that it's really smart for anyone listening who is like considering a certain career and you're not sure like how you feel about it or if that's the path that you want to go down,

look at the people that are at the top of the industry that you're considering. Do you want those people's lives? Yeah. And I think I started to look at the people in the music industry who I like adore and respect and didn't really want their life. Well, and a lot of times people don't know what their lives are like until you start kind of running in those circles. Yeah. Because something about my, so obviously, you know, my brother Landon is, a musician and he's he he he went to a belmont in Nashville but he mainly does covers on spotify

and his whole thing like when he first graduated he kind of went through that that existential crisis of like okay do I really want to kind of sell my soul to the music industry because basically to get there like like john mayor wasn't able to just start playing his favorite type of music he had to kind of do these pop hits and go on tour and and kind of mainstream his look and all these things. And so Lainan was like, okay, do I want to play that game or do I just want to like make a career out of it? And so Landon's like never wanted to be famous. He never really wanted to go on tour. He's just like, I want to play music for my career and like do it from my bedroom. And so he started doing covers and he's still doing it to this day. But there's a lot of different ways that you

can go about music. But it's just like sometimes people don't don't know about all those avenues. But I think it was the same thing. Like Landon like didn't really want that lifestyle. Yeah. Especially going on tour. There's a lot of like partying and a lot of drugs. And a lot of, there's not stability. And it's just really different. You're gone 24-7. Like, yeah, I wanted a family. I wanted things that that wasn't super conducive to.

It's almost like the conversation we were having a minute ago about being an influencer in the sense that like there are certain things that I've been unwilling to do to be perceived a certain way. I've been unwilling to do just for views or like I know all the things I could do. I'm just unwilling to like sell that part of myself like at my own. Yeah. moral integrity, if that makes sense. And it was the same in the music industry. So you started blogging.

That took off. And then dibs. How did dibs come about? Because dibs has just like blown up. Like congratulations. It has been, I see it everywhere. My team is always raving. Did you see dibs here?

Just you did it. Like it's been really, really cool to see. Especially for a lot of influencer brands. I mean, it can be, you almost kind of have to like feel like you have to prove yourself because you're like, I'm not just creating this. Just an influencer brand. Just an influencer brand. Just an influencer brand.

influencer brand. Like this is going to be something bigger outside of Courtney Shields or outside of Danny Austin. But like that can be really hard to do because all we have to start out with is our own audience. So yeah, how did it? How did you grow it like beyond Courtney Shields? Good question. So back in the day, I did a collab with Tula. I had been working with them for years prior to that. It was kind of like I was a yeah, the under eye bomb. Yeah. I was a baby influencer at the time and they were like a baby brand. We kind of came up together. And I pitched to them one day. And I pitched to them one day I was like, look, I've been asked by a lot of other brands to put my name on something finally, and I had been doing this full time for a couple years at the time.

This is probably maybe four years ago or something at this point. I said, but I want to do it with you guys, meaning like Courtney Shields times Tula. We released a product. It ended up being the highest grossing day in the history of the company at the time. Wow. It was a crazy day. And so the co-founders were like, wait, roll the tape back. Like, who?

And so they emailed me. Also, you launched it. I remember the bomb. It was like so viral. this is before TikTok, but it would have been even like huge or, you know. So were you in retailers too? Because I remember like walking through like. After the fact.

Yeah, it was in Neiman. It was in Ulta. And it was in Nordstrom, I think, at the time. And yeah, so we had a huge day with that launch. And then I think that they were kind of like, who are you and what do you want to do next? And so we started conversations and then we brought Jeff into the mix. And we always joke that it was kind of like online dating because it was during COVID. So it was all of us like, you know, FaceTiming.

zooming, talking to each other that way. And then, yeah, Dibbs was born from that. So did you know that you wanted to do makeup? Always. I think, like, if you look back, and I'm curious if you guys feel this way about what you're doing now, but if you look back,

like even though I thought for so much of my childhood that I wanted to do music, when I look back, beauty was like always parallel. I was the person doing all of my friends' makeup for every event, like every major moment. Yeah. Okay, support from today's episode comes from liquid IV a long term, but must have in the Ramirez household. I used to drink liquid IV all the time

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That's 20% off anything you order when you shop better hydration today, using promo code Danny at liquid iv.com. Got another one. I've talked to y'all about natural cycles many times. The world's first birth control app that is now integrated with Apple Watch. I always get tons of questions when I talk about natural cycles, so I'd love to answer the most commonly asked ones. The number one question is how effective is natural cycles?

It's 93% effective with typical use and 98% effective with perfect use. Perfect use means abstaining from unprotected sex on red days. It's important to note that no birth control is 100% effective. Irregular cycles are so common and because of that, I get this question a bunch. Natural cycles will work with irregular cycles. The algorithm always errs on the side of caution, so if you're super irregular, you may get more red days, aka the app tells you to use protection, but effectiveness remains the same. The other question that I get a lot is how to measure your temperature.

Since the NC algorithm uses body temp to determine where you are in your cycle, the more you measure, the more data you will have. You can use natural cycles thermometer first thing when you wake up or when you sleep. You can use the Apple Watch or a ring. I love that Natural Cycles is offering more options to take your temperature. I used to use the oral thermometer. Stella loves playing with that thing. Also, that's why we lose it all the time.

But now I've synced with my app with the Apple Watch since I wear it every day and it's made the process so much easier for me. I just wear my watch to bed and I can see my daily fertility status in the Natural Cycles app in the morning. But do whatever works for you. Go to natural cycles.com or use code Danny to receive 20% off an annual subscription.

This disclaimer that Natural Cycles is for those 18 and older and does not protect against STIs. Woo-hoo. So I have a, I know that we were talking about dibs, but I wanted to kind of go back. Can we talk about Alex? Sure. Divorce? Sure. I feel like it's like interesting. Well, I mean, yeah, I'm not going to like grill you on it, but I'm sure it was like one of those pivotal moments like on top of losing your dad that most people probably don't understand. Um, and you've become, I'm sure, somewhat of the villain in, right? So like, I only met Alex once,

um, at that create cultivate event. I didn't get a chance to like get to know him. That, well. And I don't even think we knew you that much at the time. But what happened? What? Like, you know, it's, and I honestly, I want to say this. Like, I do. Is it hot in here? Yeah. It actually is kind of hot, though. It actually is. But I, I respect, like, the, you having to go through that because you were kind of like in the same niche that we were all in, right? Which was like the mommy blogger space. Yeah. And then you were kind of the, the one that had to, like, go through a divorce very public. in that. And so I just think that there's probably a lot that's been unsaid in that. And I would be curious just to have a conversation about it. Let's have a conversation about it. I think, look,

I'm pretty mindful what I'm speaking on this topic because of the end of the day, that's the father of my kid. Yeah. Period. Yeah. And so that's why I'm never going to come on here or any other place in like bad mouth Alex because it's tacky, in my opinion. That's the father of my kid. Regardless, he gave me like a beautiful gift. At the end of the day, I think that there were a lot of things that we didn't see eye to eye on. We just didn't mesh. We didn't gel. There were definitely times I didn't feel supported in certain things.

And I'm sure, you know, he could say the same in his own right. He just wasn't my person. He's a good person. He's just not my person. And I will say, I mean, you've told me a little bit about what happened. And I respect, like, you've always raved about him as a father to Kinsley. And I think that's really cool, no matter what happened behind the scenes. I think that's really cool that you guys still respect each other and you're able to co-parent

because I mean, mad respect for going through something like that so public, it could not have been easy. It wasn't easy for sure. Did you guys get married pretty young? I was 26. So I would say now, I don't think in Texas culture it's like crazy young, but it sounds really young now. Yeah. And he was in the NFL when you guys got married? He had just retired when we got married.

Maybe I was 27, actually. I think we got engaged in I was 26. Right. Okay. What was like the, so was it like a gradual sort of break of the marriage? Or was it like a one thing that happened, you know? I know there are like certain events that of course stand out in my mind as the moment that I kind of knew. But it was definitely a gradual like foundational kind of cracking.

Like just different personalities. Different personalities. And I think not knowing almost like. how to properly show up for the other person, you know? Do you feel like part of that was that y'all started to change? Like, do you feel like there was a lot of change going on individually with both of y'all? Or was it just something that? Yeah, I mean, everything flipped upside down.

People try to ask me a lot and try to spend it on, oh, do you think he didn't like that you got successful? That's what you hear about like Taylor Swift and Joe Allen. Like, it's like, oh, could he not handle her success or, you know. But his career was changing a lot as well. I think if you are playing a sport, any sport for quite some time, I think there's, I've heard there's like identity things that are struggling. Yeah, I can see that. Look, at the end of the day, like, I think that's bullshit. No, that's not the reason that we got divorced. People try to spin it like, oh, you changed and acted like this and he probably couldn't handle it. And was like, because you got your lips done. Like, no, obviously that's like an absurd reason that someone would get divorced. Yeah. Obviously outrageous. No, it wasn't any of that. I think at the end of the day, we were going through a lot. But if you guys, if you think about it, we went through. a lot of life.

Okay? It's like he was playing in the NFL. Then he retired due to injuries. He was actually really good, but his body just like couldn't hold up. My career took off. I was doing that full time. We had a kid.

Six months later, my dad died. A year later, his brother died. Like, this is not easy stuff to go through for anyone, much less if you have cracks, you know,

much less if you're already struggling to get along. I think a lot of it was compatibility. I think that there was just, we were just different. And I think as crazy as this might sound, If you come from a really loving, happy household, my parents were soulmates. Like, I believe that. And I think if you come from that, it almost made me ask less questions.

As weird as that sounds. I saw, like, what good, true love, like, looked like and respecting your partner and having an amazing marriage. Obviously, my parents went through things. Everybody does. But my parents had a great marriage for, like, 35 years. And I think that because of that, I almost didn't overthink it. it was almost like this realization in hindsight where it was like oh there there were these areas where we probably weren't compatible from day one but we loved each other and we were passionate and we were

young and it was all these things and then I look back and I'm like I probably could have like dug into those things more but I just thought like oh it's always going to it works out right like love is love it works out and that's not really the reality of life when life kind of hits you in the face sure how long did y'all date before you got married a year and a half we were together for like like eight or nine years total. I mean, it wasn't like a short period of time. Right. Which is again why I think people try to paint the situation in like a negative light or think I'm going to come and like say something negative about him.

And I just wouldn't. Yeah. Regardless of how I feel or what I think or whatever. It's like I wouldn't. But I don't think that that's like, you know, it's more so just like what, you know, there's a lot of heart that probably went into that. You have a great relationship with him now, you know. And I think that there's probably a lot that you don't say publicly.

about for sure because it's dangerous it's kind of like you're like I don't want to go there like I know it will get views I know it will do well but you just don't want to like sell your soul yes and it's the father of your child so you don't want to go there of what right so at the end of the day it's what we were talking about earlier yeah of course I know that if I prop my phone up and I'm like you guys yeah I was co-parenting today you're not going to believe what happened of course yeah I mean in general whether it whether it be like any any situation from my past the stories I could tell yeah right the stories I could tell but I wouldn't because that's like not how how I was raised. That's not how I live my life. So like, yeah, of course. I know what's going to get

views and I know what would work and what would go viral, but like I'm not willing to do that, if that makes sense. So you guys got divorced. You both have been divorced for how long? Before what? A couple years. Like, when did the divorce happen? Right now? Yeah. Three plus years. And it feels like it was just yesterday. I think it was 2020. So you both are different people. You've now broken apart. You're now individual, like, and I'm not obviously trying to like get y'all back together or anything, but I'm just curious, like, looking back on it now, like, wait, just flat out now? I said matchmaker.

Oh, no, no, no, no. No, my question was like, was like, looking back on it now, is there a way that the marriage could have been reconciled with you both in your new mature states? That's a good question. I don't know. I don't think, and here's the reason that I don't know. I know for 100% certainty that I did the right thing. I don't think that we could ever be the kind of love and relationship that I want.

I think he's just not my person. But it's really hard to answer that with 100% certainty because we don't have that type of relationship now where we don't like get deep about things and talk about things. So I don't really know to a degree like who he is today almost. Like I do. I know like the bones of him. I know the core of who he is as a person. But we pretty much talk about Kinsley and keep it like businessy. Like we don't like hang out.

So do you believe that there's one person out there for you? I don't think that there's one person out there for you, but I think that there are probably a few. Okay. That's a weird kind of thing to think about. I definitely think that you have like soulmates, but I think that there could be a couple. I think sometimes soulmates come in the form of friendships,

even a parent. I think sometimes it's romantic, sometimes it's not obviously. I think just the thought of thinking that there's like one person in the entire world for you was kind of like a little depressing. What are the odds that you would ever find them? I do think too there's a world where, you know, you just choose someone that you're really compatible with and then stick to it and just determine to build a life with that person.

But I think that there are, because I've lived enough life to know that there are special connections with some people for sure. What do you guys think? I don't think there's a one person. Yeah, I wouldn't say so. I think that a few is probably like a good characteristic. Like I think that, you know, like in our church culture, like they're like, you could pick someone off the street and you can make that marriage work. And I think that that is true. It's probably not the happiest life. It might be really hard.

It might be really hard, but you could make that work. I also think that the idea of like this romantic culture that, you know, we grew up in of like our age group of being like you have a soulmate. I don't know. I don't think that that's true. It's like somewhere in the middle. Like I think a few is like a good characteristic of it. It's like a soulmate that you that I don't know. I just don't think there is ever going to be like a perfect person obviously. Totally. But I mean, yeah, it's like a soulmate, a perfect person that you decide, okay, like I'm going to make this work. But I do feel like it there are like there's hard relationships.

There's hard challenges. There's like hard seasons, maybe 10, 15 years where it's like, it's like, it's like, It's brutal and it has to be hard on a lot of people. And I think that that's going to happen regardless of whether you find your person or not. Like, you know, Danny and I could be the most compatible people in the world, but we're going to go through really hard seasons where we're going to have to express selflessness on a scale that we were never prepared for. Right. And so there's kind of that too. I think that's also when likeing each other comes into play too.

I heard this really interesting quote the other day that said the way that our relationship is toxic or becomes toxic is when you have love, but you don't have respect or trust. Or you don't have one of those components, and it's so true because you can love someone and maybe they're still not a good fit for you. Maybe you don't respect them for whatever reason. Maybe they treated you a certain way or said certain things to you and you can't come back from that. So it's one of those things that I know that I made the right decision.

There were definitely like specific moments and instances where I thought to myself, like this isn't something that you can kind of come back from. but and I think too we're like happier people apart we're better parents apart and I think that's something that a lot of people are going to struggle to understand and that's okay I like that you brought up the respect and I think it's something that people need to think about when they're dating to because that was probably one of the biggest things for me whenever I was dating Jordan is like okay this is hard we're fighting this is going wrong but like at the end of the day I respect him so much like and the love was always there but like I just respect I still to this day respect him more than anything

So like I'm willing to go above and beyond, even the times that he's maybe not going above and beyond for me because like I respect him. And I'll always respect him. I respect him even in the days that he's doing things like just for him or from himself or furthering his like just reading or growing or working at whatever it is. I just, I love and respect that about him. So I think that we've always been able to kind of evolve and grow for each other because of that. So in your next chapter, I'm curious, like what put the call out here.

What do you feel like you need in your next husband or boyfriend or whatever? My next husband. I'm like the million wives of Ellen, you know. Sorry, next not meaning you're going to, yeah, you're dating. Because that's the next topic. Whenever I did like a question box, that's what most people want to know. Well, that's what they're looking. And they're looking.

Like currently or they want to know what I want in someone. Not even, I mean, they want to know if you're dating, of course and who you're dating, which I know that you're probably not going to tell us. But they also wanted just like dating advice and what dating is like. Dating advice, well, we can get into that. I've got a lot of things to say about that. I think in someone, I need someone, obviously, that I share similar values and morals with. I want someone that I respect, someone that I had that connection with,

but it has to go so much deeper than that to their respect and the trust. Someone that's used Kinsley as a plus. And that's hard right at first because typically when you start dating someone, they're not going to know her at first. That takes a while before you introduce someone, at least in my case. I tell people on the first date. I have a little girl. Like, I'm very open about it, but they're still not going to meet her for several months, likely.

So I'm very open about that. Have you ever told someone on a first date and they're like, okay, this isn't going to work? Never, actually. But it would be a blessing if they did. To be honest. It's like, hey, that's okay. And at the end of the day, like, I'm also, I don't hide it though. Like, it's all over my Instagram.

Yeah. It's like, they probably know. Like, you probably, it's not a surprise to anybody unless you just meet me out and about. I also think that, like, I'll be 36 in like two weeks or like a week and a half. Shoot. it's so soon. I think it's like pretty normal. If you're 36 and you're dating,

it's not like shocking that you would have a kid. Right. It's not like I'm 18 and people are like surprised. They're called off guard. Right. Someone that is supportive and confident, I think it takes a lot of confidence to be with someone that is public

and that does have their life out there and it does get like some form of attention like that on a daily basis. You have to be really confident. And I'm very confident. So it takes a lot for someone to kind of be that. that as well. And someone that I need someone with a lot of emotional intelligence. I've struggled

with that in past relationships, not feeling like I could get deep enough with people and not feeling like there was enough like there. Yeah, I need depth. So those are some of the things. I need someone to be funny, but not dumb funny, like witty funny. That's key. Those are just probably some. Younger, older? I've dated both. Do you have a preference? Well, I think I was in a phase of dating younger guys for a minute. It didn't go well. It did not go well. But I think to a degree it's like fun, right? It depends like how much younger. But I don't know. Older is harder too. I like them totally down for a couple years older. I think that makes a lot of sense because they're usually like a little bit more successful and they've been established in their careers and they like are more

confident. They've lived more life and it's no secret that it takes men longer to mature than women. So it makes sense like the older thing a little bit. But too much. much older, I feel like people don't understand social media that much. Yeah. Like it has to be like the happy media. Yeah. I guess so. Yeah.

But like events and stuff. It's kind of nice. So I don't know. I think I've done everything. I could see you with like a silver fox. Totally. Are you kidding me? I could totally see that.

Kind of same. Come on. You're so mature. Like you cannot. I can't imagine you dating younger. Yeah. I can't. It was a phase.

It was in my gloomy phase. What if if someone was like a big. public figure than you would that bother you no it definitely wouldn't like bother me I guess it would just depend if I was like okay with like how they got their success like did I agree with them like as a human yeah and was I okay with what they're putting you know right if they're and you can still kind of live your life yeah it just depends like there's a lot of people that could be like bigger public figures that whereas like I wouldn't like love their job right yeah like I would never like a politician or something but yeah I guess I don't know

Yeah Kind of like a personal question It's not an ego thing for me I don't care if someone No I don't know but it's like What's their following like what does that come with? Because we all know that like Are am I gonna have a bunch of like random hate mail?

Yeah Then no It's more so the question of like when I asked that I was more like Do you want someone who Support you from a like I support you because you have a much like Harder career or like support you from like

Hey like I don't know what the alternative would be Like they get it? kind of yeah I would probably prefer someone that didn't have that um just because I think mixing two worlds together like that at this stage is different you guys are both known but you came up together like you're known because you're together I think it would be hard to mix those two worlds we've kind of become like business partners yeah and everything is for work and I've had a lot of other friendships that are like that where it's like their husband is just their business partner and that's got to be really hard especially when you start to have kids

totally so I think I'd prefer someone that was like a little bit more private. I also think in our weird world like you kind of feel I think if someone wanted to be known but they weren't I would feel kind of used. Yeah it's weird that would be weird dating in general is weird now yeah Jordan when I started dating and was just trying to get all over my YouTube channel yeah sure cloutches chasing chas chason fission I've got to start somewhere yeah but it is weird yeah I can only imagine but like guys don't know. Are you on the apps? I was a little bit. I had a stint. I'm not current. What are the apps these

days? I was on Raya, Raya, however you say it. Oh, the elite one. I've heard about this. I want to hear about that. And I did hinge for a minute. Okay, so which one was better? Well, it's so different. I mean, you're literally on riot and it's like, you know, OG like Harry Potter stars in Channing Tatum and then like random athletes. Wait, did you go on any dates? Totally random people. Not with anyone like crazy. But nobody checks it. Like I didn't check it. It was one of those things that kind of sits there. Yeah. And you don't, I feel like,

because people are inherently busy. Yeah. And, like, successful. And so we just, like, don't ever look at it. I don't look at it. And then Hinge is obviously just, like, people are you like. Did you say Ogie Harry Potter stars?

Yeah. Like. We don't want to know him. Like Daniel Radcliffe? No, it was a Malfoy. I saw Malfoy. That's awesome. Right now.

I ex-Tim, sorry. So, uh, Hinge, you said? Hinge is the other one. How's Hinge? I'm not on it currently, but, you know, interesting. You know what's so funny? I just thought about this. All my friends that met on dating apps, it was all Tinder.

Yeah, Hinge wasn't even around. I have so many friends that got married off Tinder. It's very not, I've never done Tinder or like other ones, but it's not, it's so not taboo now. Tinder was like the app when I was around dating. Yeah, but it was like taboo. Yeah, you know. Like people, when you ask someone like how you met and you're like, Tinder. Right.

It's quite more normal now. But it's totally normal now. I feel like just, you know, how else do you meet people? I like prefer to meet people, IRL if possible. I feel like nowadays, like guys don't walk up to girls anymore. Do you feel like that's true? It takes a real man. See, I love that.

Yeah. My aunt met her husband at Starbucks in line. I feel like a lot of times, yeah, men are very not manly. Not anymore. No. They don't know how to be a man. No. Especially if you're mean, but it's true.

I mean, I actually think it's like kind of talked about. They're like confident. You know? It's like there's like kind of a crisis in like manhood right now, I think. That's fair. I can't tell you guys. I've been traveling. You're on the front lines.

I'm sorry. I'm not fighting the battle for us all. But I can't tell you how many airplanes I've boarded lately to where I've struggled and like sprained my rest trying to get my bag up and people just look at you. They'll like check you out and they'll look at you and they like and you want to stand there like nobody. Nobody's going to offer to help, not a soul. Well, because then you also have a lot of women maybe these days that are like, I don't

want help. I don't need help. It's a double-edged sword. So it's just like it's confusing. It's hard. It's complicated world we live in. Yeah, it is. Have you, so has it been like, have there been times where you've been like, I'm super lonely? Like I just feel like like really discouraged in your journey like post-divorce? I think there's a weird, I'm trying to think of how I can like say this in an eloquent way. There's a weird thing that happens when you start to become really successful and like I'm really happy in my life. I've been really happy in my life for quite some time now. all of my buckets have been good. You have the Kinsley and the family bucket.

You have the work bucket. You have the self. Like, are you taking care of yourself? How are you feeling bucket? You have your friend bucket. All of my buckets were good, except that bucket, right? Like, that was like my place of struggle. And I think that it can be hard in moments of, like, great success and in moments where

you feel really happy. It can be hard sometimes not to have someone to, like, share those moments with. But I've also learned through. much trial and tribulation, that there is nothing more lonely than being with the wrong person. Like there's nothing more lonely. Being alone does not even hold a candle to the loneliness that you can feel when you're stuck and you feel like trapped in the wrong relationship. That is the loneliest place you can be, in my opinion.

So I think, yeah, I've definitely had those like lonely moments, but they don't compare to feeling like trapped in in times like that. And so I think for me it's been about trying to be patient and wait until, I had clarity about situations. There was a time when I was just like dating and I was having fun. And I'm still having like fun. But what I mean is that I wasn't dating people to marry them. Like I wasn't dating people.

And this was like, you know, in recent, I'll say in the past year and up two years. I was just dating people because I was having good time and it was fun and I liked them and all as well. There was a time when I wasn't sure if I wanted to get married again. And I think like then I realized, you know what I think I do want that? I do want a partner. I think there's something really beautiful about building equity. with someone if it's the right person. And so you have to wait for that person.

So I think that's why I've just been moving at a much slower pace lately. So I'm just like slow to everything right now. Because I'm kind of being. Smart. You're figuring it out. Mindful. Yeah. Did you ever go to therapy? Yeah. Do you still?

No. Not right now. But I have. And you all went to couples therapy too. Yeah. Yeah. I guess that's the question I think a lot of people who are in a hard relationship right now would ask is like what's the difference between, you know, quote, being with the wrong person and just being in a hard season that you have to, like, fight through.

I think you know in your gut. I think, like, especially women, we have, like, such a strong intuition. And the only times I ever have regret in my life are the times I didn't listen to my intuition. I didn't listen to my gut. Those are the only things I regret. Are the times going against that. Did you have that feeling when you were getting married the first time?

Sorry. No, that's like a good question. Like was there a gut feeling that you kind of maybe ignored? Because sometimes intuition can trick us, right? Well, intuition can trick us, but so can our society. I think a lot of things that people say are good are not good. Oh my gosh, like I have butterflies. Every time I see this person, I can't sleep, I can't eat.

That's anxiety. That's not good. That's so true. Like that's not a good thing. Like the person that you, like whenever I meet someone and I end up really connecting with them, it's almost like I want to like fall asleep every time they're around because I'm comfortable. And I'm calm.

That's how you should feel. If you're feeling like you can't eat and you can't sleep and you're waking up in the middle of the night, like that's not a good thing. Those aren't butterflies. That's anxiety. That's your intuition. That's your body telling you that you are in the wrong situation. And similar to like cold feet.

I feel like, you know, you can say like, oh, I'm a little nervous. I don't know about this. And people are like, oh, it's normal. That's cold feet. That's normal. Everybody feels like that. And you're like, do they? You know?

So I think there was definitely a moment. of like I'm not sure it wasn't a hard like this is wrong that I ignored I think that there was definitely like I'm not sure about this moment and then it's like okay it's normal it's cold sheet right and but but I would never take it back because I wouldn't have kinsley yeah of course and I wouldn't be who I am like it's made me who I am in many ways yeah it's good it's good stuff we are rooting and praying for your next uh your next man thanks yeah we are thanks guys we're behind you I love that is dating hard as you get older?

For sure. I think everyone comes, well, yes and no. Everyone comes with like more baggage because we've all had more experiences. But with that, the beauty of that, there's also like a no BS. You know, like you kind of get to it. I'm like, cool.

Hey, so do you like kids? Like, what's your past trauma? What's your childhood? They're like, this girl's crazy. Yeah, exactly. No, it's great. Kind of just get to the point. Yeah, but if someone can't handle

those type of conversation, never going to be. No, we're not wasting any more time. I respect that. Obviously, I don't really do it like that, but you know what I mean. I like to be an open book because if you're not going to be a match, if someone's like, no, I hate kids. It's like, yeah.

Yeah, it's not going to. Okay. So to wrap this up, do you have any other questions? Oh, I do have one other question. But I don't know if you want to talk about this. I'm scared. So you were engaged. Yeah.

A second time. Yeah, that's kind of relevant to the. What do you feel comfortable saying about that situation? It was a bad situation. I don't know like Because that was kind of public too Yeah What did your intuition

Walk us through your intuition through that one? It was not good But you got out of it I got out of it I'm really proud of myself For getting out of it It was very toxic Yeah

I've sort of touched on that without Like I don't think You can really say like that much About situations like that But it wasn't good And I think at the end of the day Again I battled with How am I going to be perceived

And so I was faced with at the end of the day, I can choose people's perception of me or I can choose what's best for me. And I chose what's best for me, which was to leave the situation. I knew it was going to be viewed as, oh, someone else, like, she couldn't hold another relationship. I knew how it was going to be perceived, but it's so far from the truth that it's, again, comical.

I don't actually think that in hindsight it was perceived that way. Yeah. Because I think I was honest enough. Like, I shared enough that people understood that it was a situation that I needed to exit. But, you know, I did the right thing for me, a million percent and for Kinsley. And that's all I can do. So at the end of the day, like, if people want to judge me, that's okay. That's okay. And I'm proud of you for noticing that, getting out of it. Yeah. I think, you know, a lot of people don't get out of situations like that. And if it can happen to me,

it can happen to anybody. Yep. And that's like what's crazy. But at the end of the day, all you can do is do your best. People are really good. I will say to anyone who's listening. I always tell people, like, talk to somebody for like three or four months before you really get super serious because people can hide who they are for the first three to four months. And then I have found everyone starts to unravel after that point. What started to unravel? Was there something specific? Was it like a friend, a mutual friend? Did you have any mutual friends?

No. I mean, it was just some really bad toxic. Yeah. Yeah. Stuff. Who, so, you know, obviously people perceive you one way, you know, who's your support for? group like who who like knows the real courtney and is like helping like love you and walk you through these like hard seasons well a couple things to people who follow us sometimes when you

have that negativity still 99% of people are yeah totally totally sometimes diana you were saying earlier that you hang on to that one negative comment all day but like how many positive comments did you get that day yeah no of course and so it's one of those she'll find that one though yeah I'm really good at it she'll find that one she'll lash people are so kind and so cool and I do feel really supported by people. And even in that situation, I felt actually really supported by people. I think I thought I was going to get judged,

but I didn't really. I mean, I'm sure somebody judged me, but I think the overarching perception was not to judge me. In that case, my mom, hardcore, my support system,

my family, my mom is like my partner in a lot of ways. She's the best. Is she over a lot? Yeah, and I go over there a lot. I live, like, we live very close. That's awesome, that you have that.

And then my friends. Yeah. Do you have any friends that, I mean, because you and I probably understand this, there are Instagram friends. And those friends are genuine, but a lot of times you don't live in the same city as them. And then you have friends that are like offline that you're not posting every single moment with. Would you say those are the friends that know you best? Yeah, I mean, I definitely think like, I mean, I have friends that I've been friends with since I was four.

That's cool. Like childhood friends for forever. I'm still friends with quite a few of my friends from forever growing up especially. And so I think most of those relationships are lived offline. The funny thing is that it's fun when you see somebody and you love them. You want to take a picture. You want to post it. Like I'm sure we'll get a picture after this and we'll post it and it's so fun.

But sometimes the most meaningful conversations happen offline. But again, if people don't see it. Yeah. It didn't happen. Yeah. So sometimes it's tough because people are like, oh, you haven't hung out with your friends. Your friends and you're like, we talk all the time. I just don't feel the need to like head people out and share it all the time.

Yeah. You're just not playing the PR game. Exactly. You refuse. Do you want to, you're going to be my new publicist. No, no. I mean, I could, but. No, I don't think he's the one.

Not the one. No, yeah. It's, I think like at the end of the day, I just, I value people in my life. Yeah. Heavily. And even it's so funny, people are like, you have a brother? And I'm like, yeah, my brother's badass. Like, I love my brother.

He's one of my best friends. My brother doesn't love to be on camera. Yeah, he's cool that sometimes I'll kind of for him with him. Hey, it's okay if I'd like post this video or I share this and I'll say yeah. But I don't I'm not going to wake up and be like, Tripp, how is your day today? Like, where are you going? Because like he doesn't like it. So I'm not going to like pimp people out just to benefit myself at the end of the day. I could. And I probably have a lot higher engagement if I did honestly. But I feel like weird about that personally. Like I'll share people that like to be

shared. That's fun. It's fun to like create content with people in your family or your friends. If they want to be in it. It's really fun. You know, it makes it more entertaining for everybody. but I'm also not going to make people uncomfortable. No, I feel that. I mean, I have a group of friends. I have friends in Dallas that are like mommy bloggers, you know, Maddie and Taryn and all them. And like we're so comfortable being on camera.

Like we pull up the phone and everybody's just having fun. Totally. But then I have my friends that like when I pull up the phone, you could just tell, like, they don't say that they don't want to be on it, but the vibes just changed. So I'm just like, I'm not doing, I'm not going to do it. It's not worth it. And I enjoy the time that we're having offline anyway. So I totally get that.

And I think it's important to have a little bit of both, too. Yeah. Home Chef is one of the official sponsors of today's episode. I'm sure you've heard me talk about my love of Home Chef for many years, but for those of you who haven't heard of it or are on the fence about signing up, this one's for you. If you're like me and you get a little bit stressed out in the grocery store, shopping for your family and then trying to think of meals for each night of the week, then Home Chef is definitely for you. With Home Chef meals delivered right to your door, you get to save time on meal planning, skip the chopping, which is my least for a part, and get straight to a delicious family dinner at an affordable cost.

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Oh, shoot. Do you hate when people chew on Instagram? No, it doesn't really bother me on do that all the time. It doesn't bother me on Instagram, but like in person, I just want to be like, you'll close your mouth. Or when they chew, my brother chewed so loud, but his mouth is closed. And I'm like, this is like disgusting. Yeah. Biggest, I can't, it and dating. This is going to be kind of mean, but like people with really small tiny hands freak me out. I think I have big hands. I'm like, you don't have small hands. Small tiny hands. Like dainty hands. I have like big hands. Like I can feel like I could palm a basketball. Well, you have a bunch of tech workers in Austin. They all have dainty. Tainties. Telet. Telet.

Skinny fingers. Or people who are like way too self-involved. Okay. Aliens, real or no? For sure, to some degree. I don't know if they're like green and running around, but there's definitely like some form of life. They're actually gray, but it's okay.

We'll talk later. He's really big in aliens. You go to jail. Who's your number one call? Either my mom or Audrey, although she's about to have a baby, so SOS. I love Audrey. Favorite person to follow on social media? This is good.

I'd be curious. I don't know. You know what? I don't consume as much social media anymore. You like Alex Earl? I do like Alex. I think she's cool. Yeah.

I don't consume a lot of people because I feel like if we're constantly creating and we're consuming, it's like the whole day. We don't have time anymore. I have kind of like my three or four. And I just, I watch them right before I go to bed. I mean, I watch like my, honestly, just like the Dallas Mommy bloggers. Yeah. Just so I can keep up with like what they're all doing. Yeah.

But I'm kind of saying my favorite girl like if I'm trying to be inspired is Mary lawlessly. Mary saying. I'm happily gray. Like I've loved her for probably eight or nine years. I have a story about her. So I was in whole she's really sweet. I was in Whole Foods before I had a following. I was like trying but I didn't have a following.

Yeah. And I like saw her and I remember I was on the phone with one of my best friends who's the one of the ones I've known since I was like four. And she also loves happily gray and she just was like I called her and I was like she's here. She said Whole Foods. Do I say hi? And it's so funny now because you know people sometimes look at us and they're like, I don't know if I should say hi. I was that person. No, I'm like, do I say hi? Am I still not that way with her?

Yeah, she is. Like, I've never seen her around Nashville. But every time I go, I'm like, if we run into happily gray, like I would, I'd freak. She's really sweet. Have you ever just deemned her? Yeah, of course. Of course. Like for years.

Like you scroll back and it's like years of DMI. Only Danny. She has DM me a couple of times. But anyway. Okay, let's see. Ideal first date. I think something kind of thought out but not like crazy long like actually you know what probably just like drinks or dinner and like good conversation because I don't want anything

that goes like longer than that because if I don't like it I can bail yeah that's good common would you want to have any more kids TBD I don't feel strongly about it um like I don't feel like I really want another kid I'm not like die hard I need another kid if I don't find someone that's like the right person for me. I'm going to go out and have another kid. Kinsley's amazing. I feel very fulfilled. But if it was really important to my partner, like, if I found someone and they ended up being like the love of my life, then I would probably do it. Yeah. You know, for them, but it's kind of feel it out. Yeah, TBD. What accomplishment? But I want to, oh, absolutely. I want to have like a soccer team. Do you have anything else? Do we have an upcoming

timeline on that? Oh, Jordan actually said yesterday. He had a list of things. So we were, kind of like mapping out 2024 or just kind of like big goals like what do we want to work on and like number three who's like baby number three which I'm like no not yet not yet there was a question mark it wasn't like a statement it was more like it was like baby number three question mark and then I said no he said okay onto number four it's not because I want one right now it's just I want them to be close in age yeah that's my big thing that's the other thing people ask me about kinsleeping an only child she's kind of already going to be raised like an only child she's like a little adult because she's around all of us all day yeah she's so much

and so smart. Okay, what is your biggest accomplishment that you're most proud of? In the workspace or in general? How about one of each? Yeah. I think in general, being resilient and I'm really proud of the mom that I am. I'm really proud of Kinsey. Like, I'm just really proud of the human being that she is.

I think she's just the best. And I think I had to sort of do that through losing my dad. He was, she was six months old. So it was like hard to really grieve during that time. So I think I'm proud of how resilient I am and how that all worked out and how amazing she is as a human. And then work wise, dibs for sure. Oh yeah. Just like all in all.

Do you have any, I don't know, future plans with dibs that you can tell us about? Really excited for retail the next phase of things. We're in some talks with, you know, the best of the best. And I'm not, we're not rushing to make a decision. Yeah. We don't have one yet. Yeah. But we are talking to the heavy hitters.

Love that. And so I think just kind of waiting to see what feels right. How did you guys know, by the way, that Ulta was the right partner for you? Congratulations on your rollout. It's been amazing to watch. I don't say there was nice. Yeah, they were just nice. No, to be honest, I always had a target on, on Ulta.

Because I really wanted, I mean, you have Sephora, you have Nordstrom, you have all these other types of retailers you have Walmart Target but Ulta to me was my ideal demo because they're more approachable there's a lot more stores yes it's less intimidating than a Sephora like and don't get me wrong like I would love to be in Sephora one day but when I thought about like my ideal girl um Ulta was always like the number one that popped up Ulta in Target and especially like the Ulta's in Target and so I don't know if you know this story but like whenever I first launched our first skew or scalp serum I was at Target and you know Target and you know Target it has some of those Ulta's inside.

Yeah, I love those inside. They're the best. They're great. And so I was in there with Stella. She was a year old and I was like filming stories. Like, what should we get? And then I said on the stories, I was like, Stella, wouldn't that be crazy if mommy got, you know, divvy into Ulta one day? And Zilla was like, you know.

And so it was just so crazy because then like a year later we were working with Ulta. Yeah, that's so cool. But, um, so no, I always knew. But of course, like I also, I feel like my girl shops at Nordstrom. So I'm like not opposed. Yeah. That makes sense. But that's awesome.

Thank you so much for coming today. Where can people find you? On Instagram, Courtney underscore Shields, on TikTok. Just type in Courtney Shields. You'll see lots more relationship vice and beauty there. You guys like that. Well, thank you so much for coming. Thanks for sharing all of your wisdom.

I'm going to play her outro track. Yeah, play it, play it. Please don't. Come on. This is my biggest puppy. No, it's so good. I love it. This is my favorite one.

I didn't know that you. you watched too. The only one that you knew. I know because this one, this one overshadowed it. She's like this is the only one. Okay. I will be like. We love you guys and we'll talk to you later.

Bye.