De-Influenced with Dani + Jordan - Things We’ll ALWAYS Splurge On, Influencer Burnout & The Case We Can’t Stop Thinking About

Episode Date: August 13, 2026

Happy Thursday, De-Influencers!! We are ALL over the place today 😂 We’re starting with a little life update from Nashville before getting into the things we think are actually worth splurging on… and apparently Dani and Jordan have VERY different definitions of a “splurge.” We’re also settling the debate on tipping culture because WHY does every screen ask for 30% now?! Then things take a deeper turn. Jordan found a study on creator mental health that led us into a really honest conversation about Dani’s 15 years on the internet, burnout, tying your worth to numbers and what success looks like when the internet moves on to the next person. And finally, we’re talking about the Lindsay Clancy case and the really difficult conversation surrounding postpartum mental health, postpartum psychosis and criminal responsibility. This one is heavy, so we give a warning before getting into it for anyone who may not be in a place to listen right now. Basically… deodorant, index funds, influencer existential crises and true crime. A very normal episode of De-Influenced 😂 WE LOVE YOU GUYS!! Thanks for hanging with us every week. 🤍 Thank you to our sponsors: Quince: Upgrade your everyday. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers, or go to Quince.com/dani. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK, too. Monarch Money: Write your own money story with Monarch. Use code DANI at Monarch.com to get your first year of Monarch Core half off at just $50. That's 50% off your first year at Monarch.com with code DANI. Hiya: You can now find Hiya in person at Target stores nationwide, or order directly from their website with a special deal we’ve worked out just for you. Receive 50% off your first order on any of their products. To claim this deal you must go to hiyahealth.com/DANIAUSTIN. Wayfair: Join Wayfair Rewards today to get 5% back on every purchase and start saving on your next home upgrade. Head to Wayfair.com to shop all things home. Wayfair. Every Style. Every Home. Minnow: Shop the capsule starting July 7th at shopminnow.com and enter code MEETMINNOW15 at checkout to receive 15% off your first order. That's shopminnow.com code MEETMINNOW15 for 15% off your first order. Cozy Earth: Head to cozyearth.com and use my code DANI for an exclusive 20% off. Our Place: Upgrade your kitchen with Our Place today. Visit fromourplace.com/DANI and use code DANI for 10% off sitewide. With a 100-day trial, you can try it completely risk-free. Little Spoon: Get 30% off your first online order at littlespoon.com/DANI with code DANI. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The following podcast is a dear media production. Hello, and welcome back to your favorite podcast, de-influenced. Can you tell I have the sniffles? I do. That makes sense because we have four sick children. Four sick children. And, oh, you know what I just realized is different? We don't have headphones on.

That's what feels different. I was like, what? Wait, no, but we haven't had them on the past three weeks. Oh, yeah, you're right. But the acoustics in this room are a little bit different. Yeah, like, it's weird. I guess we're like studio shopping. Yeah, yeah.

Pretty much. So, yeah, it's been kind of crazy medically over at our house. And logistically. Logistically and medically. We've had a lot of, we have a lot of sick children right now. So my parents were coming into town and they wanted to bop around from like Landon Olivia's house to our house. And we said, and we said, well, Landon was like, no, because like her kids are sick.

and we don't want to get like milly sick. She's only two months old. But then my father had like a medical emergency. He was like really dehydrated. And so he like got sick at the airport. Actually really sweet. He told me that he met like 15 of you guys at the airport. Like 15 girls were like, he said 15.

He's something like, they're probably five. Let's just say it's a large party to be traveling. I was a day. Maybe he said 12. No, he said 15. I heard it. Yeah. Yeah. And he said that he met a bunch of you guys at the airport, and he started to get, like, white and dehydrated and lightheaded and was going to faint. And two of y'all were like nurses and helped him out, which I thought was sweet. So thank you for helping out my father. She's also underplaying this. It was actually really bad. He got carried out on a stretcher. Yeah, it was really serious, actually. But I don't, if I'm like, if they want to talk about it, they can talk about it. It's not my story to tell. So that's been going on. But Nini and Papa are in town.

And we have lots of fun. I think your parents are going to, like, move to Nashville. They're loving it. Are they? They totally get it. Now, like, we were on the golf cart and your mom was like, I was so upset they all are moving, but I get it now. Like, I understand.

Oh, she said that. Yeah. And I was like, girl, you haven't even seen, like, Brett Wood or Franklin. Oh, my God. When we take them out to Leapers. I'm telling you, like, that is, like, so your parents. It's so, they're going to totally get it.

I know, I know. I mean, the, yeah, we're not hard selling anymore. one though. I just want to be clear. Like we're not making our families move here. No, no. We're doing what's best for our family. Oh, are we doing that? Okay. I mean, you, you don't have to. No, I felt so last episode, I took my shoes off and I felt so, so free. I felt so free and grounded. Yeah, go ahead, babe. Okay. Um, yeah, so I do feel like that could happen. Like I said, like we said, we're not pushing anyone, but. I also think that just to be clear about this whole Franklin conversation, you and Emily Fawver have come to Dylan.

Favre and I and both. Okay, so Dylan and Emily moved here from Oregon, right? Yeah. We moved to Nashville. We moved into Brentwood. Yeah. And I knew that we would love Franklin. And I feel like we're already feeling the itch to get out to Franklin. We'll see what happens. We'll see it. Stella and Stratton are about to start school pretty soon, which I feel like will be like a huge indicator of where we should be. So some other life updates. Oh, I went and the talks yesterday. Botox. Oh, congrats. Could you tell I did a little lip flip? No. Yeah, I know. So I just got like a little Botox above this point. They should do like four little spots and apparently it just kind of like prevents your lips from curling under.

I can't really tell a difference. The only thing that's different is like it's hard for me to like suck on a straw. Huh. It just feels very like can't access that muscle anymore. Huh. Well. Okay, moving on. No, it looks great. I also got a little tots in my jaw. And, oh, you know, it's been horrible. Is this acne? I have been having the worst acne ever. It's like painful acne. It's like painful acne. The type of acne where you're not even moving your face. You don't even do anything. You're just walking around and it's throbbing. You don't get any acne. I'm so jealous of you. I have a, what do they call it, rosacea? Oh, babe, yeah. No, you have like a fungus that grows on your body. No, no, no, no. You always told me my nose would get red.

Oh, yeah, yeah. But I feel like that went away since college. Yeah, they kind of did. You know? I think I'm out in the sun more. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe you're less stressed.

I'm so much less stressed. Yeah. That could have been it. So that could be a, yeah. So we just have been kind of chilling, you know, it is a little bit tougher to do two podcasts in one week because, like, we don't have, like, a lot of life going on, but we have been keeping up with like a lot of things that are going on

in the world, which I do feel like there's a lot of really somber, crazy, sad, wild things going on right now that we're going to kind of cover later on in this podcast. But first, I thought it would be fun. Have you heard the trend of like five things that you think is worth the money? Oh, yes. I've seen this on TikTok. I feel like we should both do ours. Because it's like I feel like what we send our money on is like so unique compared to some people because like I'm so frugal in some areas and so are you. But then make me flurge in other areas. Yep. Um, so do you want me to go first or do you want to go first? Andrew East is calling me. You want to answer it? Tell, oh yeah, tell me on the podcast. Hey, Andrew. Do you speaker? Andrew? Um, you know, we're recording a podcast right now. You're on live. What's so, squad. Welcome to Nashville.

Yeah. Let me finish this and I'm going to call you, but I'm so excited to see you soon. Okay. Love you. Hey, hey, can I say something about you? You're a funny texter because you'll come in hot and then you disappear for like two weeks. That's me. Which is so how Danny texts too.

Okay, I love it. I'm glad I'm not your first experience with this. Listen, I'm here for when things are happening or you to get done. I'm not going to bother you. Okay, we'll text you soon. Bye-bye. All right, bye. That's funny.

I still text like that. Yeah. No, he's, we've been trying to get together, but he's a funny textor. Because, like, when we were in Costa Rica, he was like,

hey, come over tonight. All of our friends are coming over for dinner. And I was like, okay. He's kind of like, if he's in the moment, that's so mean.

He's there. I'm like, do you want to come over right now? If it's not the moment, he's out. Because he's no planning. Yeah. Yeah,

I'm still like that. Like, He also, he was like the first person who like cold FaceTimed me. And I, that's always scary. No, I have friends. Like I don't FaceTime. Like it's like a known thing. I also don't do video calls.

Like with the Divi board, I will never be on video. Yeah. I just don't like it. And so to me, when you FaceTime with someone, it's a very like intimate fridge. We don't even FaceTime. Yeah, we don't. I just don't. I don't like it.

Yeah. Do you like it? I don't like a cold face time. No. I don't like a cold face time. I feel like I need to perform. Yeah, yeah. There's extra pressure.

You know. So anyway. Yeah. I get that. Okay. So things we splurge on. Yeah. Do you want to go first?

Not things you splurge on. Five things that are worth the money, which we'll probably do more than five. I want to hear yours first. Okay. So I wrote Don't some. The funniest thing about Danny splurges too is she will splurge and then take it back. That's so true. So true.

She'll be like, I'm going to buy this designer bag. And then she's like, I felt guilty. I took it back. It's painful. It's painful for me to spend money. Even gifts that I give you for Christmas, you'll take them back. Always. Which is so funny.

But then you'll also. Like I'll return it and get something half the price. I'll be like, so I made money. Right. And you're very frugal about the oddest things. it's like bread in you to be frugal about the most like water bottle prices yes you're like you're like kids like we're not going to spend you know we're not going to buy this water bottle at the airport go throw your water bottles up or movie snacks or her movie candy I'm like no we're going to a gas station and we'll sneak it all in right no for sure it's so expensive though if you really think about it yeah I'm like we're not going to buy lunch at the airport pack of peanut butter and jelly yeah it's just but then it's like our designers like like, do you want this rug or this rug?

And you're like, oh, I definitely want that rug. But you know why that's so much easier for me is because you pay your designer a lump sun at the beginning and then you don't have to like see the prices of each thing individual. Yeah. Does that make sense? But you still pay the designer a lump sum. I know, but it's just a different way of thinking about it for me. I'm like, okay, so I paid the lump sum so that rug is free.

Yeah, no, no, it's girl math for sure. It's funny girl math. Yeah. I've learned a lot about it. Okay. So my number one thing, sorry, not, these are not in order. Something I think is worth splurging on is the Dona Karen deodorant, that one that I always use. I always get it from the North Carolina anniversary sale.

We always use, because I don't buy my own deodorant. I use yours. I know, I know. It's unsyented. So it's not like. No, it's scented. Oh, it is? Yeah, that's one of the biggest, like, complaints about it.

Because it's, well, also, I buy the one that has, like, no aluminum, but then I buy the one that does have aluminum just like for those, you know, crazy days. and they're both fragrance and people That's why people get annoyed But it's not like feminine fragrant It's a little feminine Oh It's okay I always wore the axe deodorant

The black one with like vanilla The brown axe black whatever It was um God what was that scent? I always loved axe for me personally And it was like a manned scent There's like four things I've never bought Since we've been dating and or married especially

Toothface I've never bought toothpaste Deodorant I just use your asses deodorant socks socks underwear underwear floss any type of skin care product

toilet paper shampoo and conditioner we started divvy so which is that that's true let's see oh something I think is worth the money is like when you meet a new friend and you invite them out for the first time like you pay for their meal or you pay for their coffee

especially if you initiated. Oh, yes. That's so kind. Like it's like classy, it's kind, it's thoughtful, and it's like you're the one. And then you don't ever have to do it again. Maybe like a birthday or something. But I feel like it's just like such a good way

to set the tone with the relationship. Do you think it could be perceived as big timing? I think if you're like going to like a private club and buying like a $300 dinner. Yeah. And you're like, I know the manager. Don't worry. Yeah, no.

But like I feel like if you go to coffee, or something you just pick up the coffee or like Bridget has been really sweet to me and she like invited me to go get our nails done the first time we hung out and I was like I want to cover that because she doesn't know how special it was to me and like how much it meant to me that she invited me to go get our nails in together oh so you offered to pay no I paid like I just and I don't even I don't even like tell the I just do it and then it's like she was in the bathroom I was like I just did it and like let's just so she went to pay and I was like no I got it let's go like no no you don't do that like no you don't understand how much this meant to me and then

And it's like a moment where you can have like a second and then like don't be like I not to get down this tangent but I love that you have an enneagram one friend. Yeah. You know, Ellie I think is an enneagram one. Yeah. And Bridget is an eleanor. And they have the best life hacks. Oh, I know. It's the craziest.

I'm always taking out with people that are so amazing. Like they're like it's so much more amazing than me. Like they just know something about everything. She, let me tell you something that she taught me. And I saw this in her Instagram story. She has the best. If you're not following Bridget on Instagram, she has the best stories. Like you learn something new every single day.

She taught me that on Spotify, there are Disney story times. And she's like, every time I'm in the car, I don't do screens with my kids. So I just put on a Disney story time. and it's like Mickey telling a story. You know who taught us that too was Lana. Lana always talked about doing story times with your kids in the car, like playing them on cassette. I don't know how.

It's so basic, but it's life-changing. I did it when I went and picked my parents up from the airport with the kids. They were so hyper-engaged. That's what Lana said about it. It's changed my life. Yeah. Like that one hack.

That's so good. And there's been things that she's posted like for the kids, like Stratton and her son are really in. to swords right now. Yeah. She found this Amazon sword that like lights up and I was like, send me a link to that. No, she's a great follow. And she's like really healthy. Um, shares a lot of like natural stuff. But then she's also like normal. Yeah. We're both ones. And I always like always like always could talk to Ellie about anything and everything because we always go down these like rabbit holes of like how to like be better at some area. Yeah.

And I just, I love your Enneagram one friends. Yeah. They're really not knowledgeable. I like I'm hanging out with people that are smarter than me because they teach me so much and I just find them very interesting. Like I feel like Bridgett's always like reading a new book or she always like has like this is a funny text. She's like Bridget is like so worried about my health. Like Ellie is. It's because we always just want to fix everyone. I posted about my acne this morning. She goes, saw your post about acne.

Are you using a mendelic acid? I bet you could get a collab with clear stem, but they're mandelic acid for acne is 10 out of 10. And then like randomly we're wearing because of acne. Dorica and she texts me this. She goes, she sent me like a reel about vitamin B1 linked to sepsis mortality. She goes, didn't you have sepsis once? I wonder if you're B1 deficient.

I go, no, but my dog was sepsis. But I probably still am deficient. Thank you. The funniest thing is, and don't sell yourself short, you are very, very smart. I don't like when you say that because you are very smart. You just don't really care about iterative improvements in your life. Like you're not someone who's like, you know what? I'm going to do this new little habit because it's going to make me better over the long term.

If you decide you want to do something, you'll just like go all in that day or that week. And then you're kind of like, I'm done. And Eagram once are very much like, hey, I want to like habit stack and like do all these things. And you're like, hey, if I'm on, I'm on. If I'm off, I'm off. She goes, you know why I love cooking? she's like I love knowing what I'm putting in my body and I was like oh I hate that I hate knowing we ordered before my parents were like oh Jordan here's your biscuits and triszo like stacked loaded

biscuits and trees and I go no those are days I couldn't believe it I'm like the type of person that like I'll eat a meat and I'll be like I don't even want to know what type of meat that is because I'm scared that you're going to tell me and then I won't like it no I've said this about you I think like three podcasts ago, you're like Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan, the reason that he was great was like if he was playing, he was like all in on planning. He was not thinking about nothing else. Like not the future, not the past, just fully in the present moment. And that's so how you are with whatever you put your mind to. Especially when I order my breakfast in the morning. I'm like, what do I want? Like what is the most fabulous thing I can order? I'm like biscuits and gravy. And honestly,

part of like I think what your success makes like an Indian one frustrated by is we see the path to success is like a series of small decisions and disciplines along the way that are like stacked over time. Mine's a one hit wonder movie. You're a one hit wonder. It's like every single so like when I look at my day it's not like oh I have all these little small things to do it is like that podcast that I have at 12 is everything is everything. Like this podcast today will determine my future and so it puts a lot more pressure on us I feel like because every single movement, single event ever. That's why I get so stressed out easily is because they all have to be great. Yeah. And nothing can just be okay. Nothing can just be like, okay, we'll get it. We'll do it and get

it over with. I feel like once August hits, I'm always in this little reset mode. The kids are getting back into routines, schedules start getting crazy again. And I'm suddenly looking at my closet, like, okay, what do I actually wear all the time? And that is why I love quince. They have those really elevated, high-quality basics that just make getting dressed easier. Think ultra-soft organic cotton, premium Mongolian cashmere, really good denim that starts at just $50. Basically, the pieces you can wear over and over and still feel put together. But lately, one of my absolute favorite quince finds has actually been their hand-woven satchel. Y'all, this is genuinely such a good mom bag. I can fit diapers, wipes, snacks for the kids, all of my personal. I'm

personal stuff and somehow still have room for whatever random things somebody hands me throughout the day. It's big enough to actually be functional, but it still looks cute and elevated, so I don't feel like I'm carrying around a giant diaper bag everywhere. I've been grabbing it constantly when we're on the go. And that's kind of what Quince does so well. Their pieces feel luxurious and really well made, but everything is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands because they work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. upgrade your every day, download the Quince app for app exclusive offers, or go to quince.com slash Danny. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in

Canada and the UK too. That's QI-N-C-E.com slash Danny. I feel like my relationship with money has changed so much as I've gotten older. When you're younger, you think about money pretty simply. What's coming in? What's going out? Can I afford this? and then you get married, have four kids, run businesses, buy a house, and suddenly your financial life gets a lot more complicated. That's why I really like Monarch. It gives you one place where you can actually see the full picture, your accounts, investments, savings goals, and spending without having to bounce around between a bunch of different apps and accounts. And for me, having everything laid out visually makes such a difference. I can actually see where our money's going each month

and whether we're on track with the goals we've set instead of just looking backward at what we already spent. One of my favorite features is Monarch's AI assistant because you can literally ask questions about your own finances like how much did I spend on travel last summer or can I afford this vacation without touching my savings? And their AI weekly recap can flag things like spending spikes, changes in your net worth or upcoming expenses.

It's almost like having a financial advisor in your pocket helping you stay on top of things, especially at this stage of life, I don't want our finances to feel complicated. I just want clarity around where we are, where we're going, and what we need to do to get there. And Monarch makes that so much easier. Write your own money story with Monarch. Use code Danny at Monarch.com to get your first year of Monarch core half off at just $50. That's 50% off your first year at monarch.com With Code Danny. Okay, back to school season is officially here. And I feel like this is when I start trying to get our entire family back into some sort of routine. And with four kids, one thing I'm always

thinking about is making sure they're getting what they need nutritionally. That's one reason we've really loved Haya. Their kids' daily multivitamin has zero sugar and zero gummy additives, and each chewable has a blend of 12 organic fruits and vegetables plus 15 essential vitamins and minerals. And the best part is my kids actually love them. I'm not having to convince them to take their vitamins every day. They're excited about it, which is a huge mom win for me. They also make it really fun. Your first order comes with this reusable bottle and stickers so the kids can decorate their own bottle, and then Haya sends refills every month. It's one less thing I have to remember, which I will always take.

And especially with school starting back up, bedtime is another thing we're trying to get back on track. If bedtime battles and restless nights are a struggle in your house, Haya also has their new kids' bedtime essentials. It's not a sleep aid. It's a non-habit forming chewable with ingredients like L-thianine, B6, Gaba, chamomel flour extract, magnesium and calcium to help kids relax before bed and wake up. refreshed. There's no melatonin and no sugar either. You can now find Haya in person at Target stores nationwide or order directly from their website with a special deal we've worked out just for you. Receive 50% off your first order on any of their products. To claim this deal, you must go to

highhealth.com slash Danny Austin. This deal is not available on their regular website. Go to H-I-Y-A-H-E-A-L-T-H dot com slash Danny Austin and get your kids the full-body support they deserve. If you know Danny, you know she loves decorating for the holidays. And apparently fall is no exception. We just moved to Nashville. We're still getting settled into our new house. And Danny has basically decided that fall decor is how we're officially going to make this place feel like home. So naturally, she's been ordering a bunch of stuff from Wayfair.

And I will say, Wayfair makes it really easy because they have pretty much anything you could need for your home. Whether you're looking for furniture, rugs, lighting, or just those smaller seasonal decor pieces that make, a room feel more finished. You can find options for basically every style and budget. And one thing I personally appreciate is being able to actually research what we're buying. Wayfair has more than 20 million verified five-star reviews plus real customer photos so you can see what something actually looks like in someone's home before it shows up at your door. They also have Wayfair verified where product specialists hand vet pieces using a 10-point quality inspection. They're looking at things like the materials, functionality, features, and even how long something takes to put together,

which as the husband who will inevitably be assembling it, I appreciate. So if you're doing your own fall refresh, moving into a new place, or you just have a Danny in your house who has decided every season requires completely new decor, Wayfair makes it really easy to make your home feel like yours. Join Wayfair rewards today to get 5% back on every purchase and start saving on your next home upgrade. Head to Wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W.A.1.1.com. That's Wai Y-F-A-I-R-com. Wayfair. Every style, every home.

How have you gotten so much better about that over time? Because I remember when you said everything would stress me out, I remember there was just like one time, and I don't know why I remember this. We were in New York City, okay? And the bellhop was like, hey, I'll take your suitcase. And I was like, oh, okay, here you go. And you got so mad at me. Yeah.

And you got so mad at me. And there's been several times I can think of like early. You didn't explain why I got mad at you. She got mad at me because she didn't believe he's a bellhop. Okay, that was so legit. Like Jordan is very naive sometimes. And like he's the type of guy that if he wore a diamond necklace, he would pack it in his suitcase that you check.

Like I would never. I would never put anything over $1,000 into a suitcase. That's why you have a carry on. Right. So we're in New York and we pull up to a hotel and there's just this guy. standing, you know, he's dressed in like all black, but no logo or anything. And he's like, I'll take your suitcase. And I go, and he just takes it and walks off. I go, how do you know that that guy was actually working for the hotel? But we don't. And this has happened to me before.

I remember when I was on my own, when I first landed in, let's see, when I went to Africa, I can't remember like we connected somewhere. It was somewhere in Europe. And we had to like send a couple of nights in Europe. And this guy came up to me and he was like, hey, he's like, yeah, I have your taxi ready. Music here, let me take your stuff. And, um, and I kind of forgot like we, I was traveling with young life. So I kind of thought like everything was planned for us and come to find out, like one of the girls on, are on my trip, like her cousin was there. And her cousin was like, no, no, no. Those guys are, are there to basically like, first of all, they could be like abducting you, like literally into like trafficking you. That happens a lot. Number two, those guys in particular

are there to get you into their taxi that, so that they can charge you. be like outrageous rates to get wherever you're going. But so I'm just always, I'm more on like the skeptical side and you're very, you're very like kind of, I don't know, trusting of everyone. Yeah, I think everyone means well. Not really. Okay, well, anyway, maybe that's a bad example. Like, I do remember getting on the plane and like getting in lines. Like, I just feel like you used to be early on in our marriage much more tense. And it makes sense because I feel like you're so in that moment like if we're not first on this plane like this is like you used to put a lot more pressure on yourself I feel like you've chilled yeah a lot so what was like what was the unlock it's a daily

battle really I have to especially like when it comes to traveling like I have to like tell myself like don't don't do it don't intervene don't try to be first don't get frustrated like I it's like a it's like a push and pull in my brain because in that moment you feel like you're destined for greatness, which is being first on the... Yeah, or I just want to be the best, or I want to like, I want to take advantage of every moment. And so to me, I'm like, if you, if we paid for first class and we're not getting on in group one, then like, what's the point? Or I always think of like, what could go wrong?

And so it's like, oh my gosh, we paid so much yet we are going to like load with group eight. Therefore, we're not going to be able to have our suitcases above our head. Therefore, we're going to have to like walk all the way. will be the last to get off the plane and it will have to wait so much longer to get our bags and so I just kind of spiral. Okay but here's the flip side is like literally in the last podcast you were like you know daylight savings or babysitter cancels like how fun so that's a different thing in my mind I know but how I really want to understand you um because I think that in those moments of chaos then I can still like be great oh so it's like an opportunity to step

up and be great. Yeah. In the in the lack of. Yeah. And it almost like I like that it catches everybody else off guard. I'm like, man, it's fascinating in that brain of yours. Yeah. Um, okay, what's another thing you splurge on? Yeah. What's another thing? That was like one. Okay. So, another thing I splurge on that I think is so worth it is, um, I do think I learned something new about you every podcast we do together. It's very fascinating. Flying American. if it's over three and a half hours. And I'm saying flying any airline over Southwest. If it's three,

I don't like flying Southwest if it's over three and a half hours. It's fair. Like they're nice and everything, but they're not great at hospitality on the airplane. Neither is American. But like Southwest is like really known for, they have like nothing you can buy, no snacks, nothing. Yeah.

Um, really good quality running shoes. I think running shoes that have like super good support are very important. Okay, a private lesson or a private, um, like fitness instructor to get back into a sport or to get back into working out. I feel like a lot of times like I'm so overwhelmed to get back into it that I just need a little guidance like that first time. And then once I get that first lesson, I'm like, I got this. Like I don't need you. But like slurging on that first lesson is so helpful.

Is it helpful for the accountability side of it? No, just like the intimidation factor in my mind because I like get very like for example. never done Pilates. But like when I do it, I will probably splurge on going to like the right place, the right studio, like whatever. And then I'll feel comfortable, like, I can do any Pilates I want. But it's just like, I feel like sometimes like working out like if you kind of like, if you're like embarrassed to go to the gym because you don't know like the movements or you're overwhelmed, I feel like having a fitness trainer once or twice will get like build up your confidence and then you got it under control. I agree. Let's see. Oversized plush towels. So worth it.

We get our from target. They're not that expensive. but like there's nothing worse to me than when you get out of shower and like your towel doesn't cover your knees. You know, I want a towel that is so massive that takes forever to dry in the dryer because it's just so I love getting out of shower with a big plush towel. Yeah, and this morning you if it didn't cover your knees, you had to run upstairs because Stella got in trouble. Yeah, I could hurt. You had to run in the towel. I heard Stella this morning being a little sassy pants. I was like, do you hear this d'clock?

We're not serious. Fair for Dreams cardigan. Like, just because you can also double it as like an adult, an adult blanket. So like I cuddle with mine whenever we travel. Like just as like a little thank you. And then hanky pinky underwear. Yeah.

They're so expensive. They're 20 bucks. I've been wearing them since high school. I always wait for the Northam anniversary sale and make sure not to get the low rise. But they're like laced on the sides, within cotton where they need to be. And they're just the best. They're one size that's all.

They're so cozy. I love them. Have you ever worked with them? No. And barefoot dreams. I'm like, Bearfoot dreams and Hanky, anky,

like I have been obsessed since, and two-faced that my bronzer. Those are three brands that I've been obsessed with like Donna Karen too. It's like my favorite brands don't want to work with me. But they don't really do influencer marketing. Or maybe they're just like, we already got her. Yeah,

their product is so good. We don't really need to. Yeah. Yeah. I could see that. Okay. I feel like every mom has those brands that once you find them, you just keep going back to them. And Minow has become one of those for our family. Their pieces are just so timeless and beautiful,

but they're also actually made for real life with little ones. We've worn Minnow for beach days, pool days, family trips, basically any time we're going to be outside. And I love that I can put them in something that looks really polished, but is still comfortable enough for them to run around and play in all day. Some of their best sellers are the girls rash guard one piece, boys, boardies, and unisex rash guard shirts. And I especially love the rash guard styles because you get that extra sun coverage. Their suits have UPF 50 plus protection. The fabric is so buttery soft and they have just the right amount of stretch. So they're easy to get on and off, which every mom knows is important when you're dealing with multiple little ones.

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Okay, if you've listened to this podcast for a while, you already know how much we love cozy earth in our house. We have genuinely been sleeping on their sheets for years. Jordan was actually the one who originally found them after doing a deep dive trying to find the best sheets. And now the fact that we get to work with them is such a full circle moment. Their bamboo sheet set is still one of my absolute favorites, especially during these hot summer months. They're made from viscose from bamboo, and they are so incredibly soft and breathable. You know when you get into bed and your sheets just feel cool and fresh? That is cozier. And lately, I've also been loving their bamboo comforter and bamboo duvet cover. Everything just feels so soft and luxurious, but it's also the

kind of bedding we actually live in every single night. It's one of those little upgrades that makes your bedroom feel like a hotel. And once you start sleeping on them, it's really hard to to go back to regular sheets. Especially right now with back to school and everybody getting back into routines, I feel like our bedroom is the one place I want to feel calm and comfortable at the end of the day. And Cozy Earth really stands behind their products. Their bedding comes with a 10-year warranty and a 100-night sleep trial. So you actually have time to sleep on it and see why people love it so much.

Everything else is getting back on track. Your sleep should too. Head to CozyEarth.com and use my code Danny for an an exclusive 20% off. That's code Danny for an exclusive 20% off. And if you see a post-purchase survey, mention that you heard about cozy earth right here. I feel like I've talked about this before, but I love mornings with the kids. It's chaotic, but I love starting the day altogether. Most mornings I'm in the kitchen making eggs for the kids, and the pan I reach for basically every single day is our always pan from our place. I'm not exaggerating when I say I cook pretty much everything

in this thing. Eggs, breakfast, quick lunches, weeknight dinners. It just lives on our stove at this point. But the eggs are what sold me. They seriously just glide right out of the pan. There's no scraping half the egg off the bottom afterward and cleanup is so easy, which matters when you're trying to get four kids fed and out the door in the morning. The last thing I want is a sink full of pans before my day has even started. And Danny loves it for a completely different reason. She thinks it's pretty, which I will give her it is. Our place is one of the few. kitchen brands where you can actually leave the cookware sitting out on your stove and it looks like it's supposed to be there. The always pan is designed to replace multiple pieces of cookware,

so instead of pulling out a different pan for everything, I can grab the same one and get cooking. And our place cookware has been made without forever chemicals since day one. It's functional, it looks good, and most importantly for me, it makes feeding our family a little easier. Upgrade your kitchen with our place today. Visit from our place.com slash Danny and use code Danny for 10% off site wide. That's F-R-R-O-M-O-U-R-P-L-A-C-E dot com slash D-A-N-I and use code Danny for 10% off-site-wide. With a 100-day trial, you can try it completely risk-free. If you have multiple kids, you know, one of the most exhausting questions you answer every single day is, what are we feeding everybody? And in our house, we've got four kids at completely different ages and stages. So what works for

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options on hand that the kids will actually eat. Feeding the kids doesn't have to be complicated. Little Spoon makes it easy with real nutritionally balanced meals and snacks designed for every stage. It shows up ready to go, takes the pressure off and somehow still gets devoured, veggies and all. No artificial dyes, flavors, or sweeteners either. And you know what? That's a win I'll take every time. get 30% off your first online order at little spoon.com slash danny with code dany that's l-i-t-t-l-E-S-P-O-O-N dot com slash d-A-N-I with code dandy for 30% off your first order um okay what about yours oh what is what is worth splurging on um where are my phone go let me tell you you know um i've got some things that i'd really like to talk about in this area and I'm in an Instagram one. Um, index funds. So you think it's

worth, okay. It's, I think it's the best place to save your money and invest your money. This is not, this is not a financial advice. I'm like the other and he's like index funds. No. I just think that like when you when you try and invest in individual stocks, most people don't know this, but like no one's winning like that. And an index fund is like such a broad based like market. So, So you're kind of like riding all the ups and the downs. And if like one stock goes down, you're not going to like get annihilated by it. I just think it's a great place to splurge. How risky are you.

And what's the craziest thing is you don't splurge on it because you don't have to pay a management fee to like any type of wealth advisor. You can literally just like go on to vanguard or go on to, you know, something else and just put your own money there. How risky are those? Low. Low risk. Yeah. What's your most, what's your favorite like high risk investment? Eli Lilly, Ozypic.

Okay. It's not high risk. I don't think that's high risk. I feel like that's very low risk. No, but like any individual stock is high risk, but like that's like my favorite because I think they're going to crush it. And they're getting into legalizing psychedelics, which is like a huge conversation. And so they're basically, I think Eli Lilly is from a pharma company standpoint is ahead of everyone else because they're acknowledging that we're all turning. not all, but a lot of people are turning against Big Pharma and they're like, okay, well,

we're going to get into all these like more wellness, like holistic markets like psychedelics and peptides. Like they're trying to get, they have the patent on Reda Retrutide. They're just going to crush it. You know what I got a prescription for. I'm getting a prescription for from my cosmetic dermatologist is the GHKCU that is like a nasal spray. Oh. Yeah, it's a compound, like a pharmacy compounds it. Yeah. And because I was telling her I really like, you know, I love copper peptides and I wanted to like do the, for my skin and hair and like acne and stuff. And she said her favorite way of getting that is this nasal spray. I'd rather inject it than a nasal spray. Really? Tickles. I don't like it. Oh my gosh. I don't like it. So, okay, keep going.

I would say, um, I think you've always gotten on to me about this, but coffees to go. Yeah. Depending on the cup. This is from frothy monkey. The one thing about Jordan. It's a decent cup. And a to go coffee is he will be holding it for like till about two o'clock. Yeah. What time is there right now?

It's one. Yeah. I'm still working on it. I got it at eight. He will work on it for six hours. So it is kind of annoying that he has to get up and get a to go coffee. But then I like don't get back because I'm like. No, it carries me throughout the day.

It carries him throughout the day. So I just like, I'm like, let him have his coffee. Honestly, there's something about. And I used to get. smalls and now I get larges, which is about like two or three cups. And the funniest thing about when I run out of my first coffee, I know that my energy for the rest of the day is about to downslide. It's like there's two chapters in my day. And it literally is dictated by when I finished this coffee cup. And so I always find that. And I also like the ritual of getting out of the

house and getting the coffee, even if I like take the kids or whatever. It gets your day started. Yeah, gets my day started. Whereas like you like to be home all day. Well no, you just won't like I want my cup of coffee like I want to drink it before I get out of bed. Yeah. It's it's like used as a catapult for me. It is for sure. And like if we're staying at a hotel, it is very common that I either I have to wake up early enough before Danny wakes up to shower and like get ready for the day or I have to go downstairs unshowered and the first thing I have to do is get Danny her coffee. Which is stressful. Because if I don't, then you don't feel loved.

It's not that deep. Okay. Uber black. Maybe this is a bad habit. Like I will choose the cheapest Uber. Yes. Like possible because I'm like it's going to be a 20 minute ride. Like I can.

I will say some of the Nashville Uber's are a little sketchy. Yeah. I mean, I think that Uber X is. is like the lowest one. Like I think that that's kind of slid a little bit. Mm-hmm. And I don't know. I,

maybe it's a bad habit, but I've been taking Uber Black for years. That is crazy to me. Like I would literally never. Never. Unless it was like my birthday and I had like all the girls with me. Yeah.

I would never pay like $10 extra for luxury. I know. And here's the other thing. I always choose Uber Eats priority. Oh. I know. I know it's a scam. No.

It's a total scam. I know. It's a total scam. I know it's a scam. And the reason I know it's a scam. It makes me sick to my stomach. I know. How much do you tip? I don't know. Whatever's the default. Oh my gosh. Not the default. Not the default. I'm like the person that like if I go to like a coffee shop and like the defaults are like 25% 30% like I will be like manually type in 20%. I do that. I do that too. I do the default on the tip machine. That's so that's so bad. Every it happens to me every single moment. Tipping culture has gotten out of control. No, I understand. Like. Like. Like. Like. Like. I do the default. I'm. Like. Like. Like. That's so. That's so bad. It's so bad. Every. Every. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's Like, do you tip everyone? I feel like I have to. Yeah. Jordan says that he always has to cover my butt because I'm going to get canceled.

Yeah, I don't want her to turn into J-Lo. J-Lo is known to be a horrendous tipper and I just, I don't want that for you. I think that it's just like kind of confusing, like where to, like I don't sometimes know. Yeah. It just happened. It just happened. To me, it was always like servers. Or like if I hired like a handyman and then now it's like everywhere.

And I'm like, wait, I have to tip you 20% because I just ordered a coffee at a place. Like I feel like I did more of the work. No, I know. Like I'm like, do I need to tip the pilot like on the Southwest flight? I don't know. Like it's hard. I, but yeah, it's really captured me because I can think of every transaction that I've gone through today at those little screens when they're like, oh, and just answer this one question. in every moment it's like I feel like you deserve this like I don't feel like I should tip you

but like I feel like if I don't tip you like that is like really stingy and selfish on my part it gets me every time why am I tipping 20% like 18% I feel like is fair at like when if I go and order a coffee at the table or like at the bar like I'm doing 18 15 to 18% then now if you're an amazing server I'm like I'll do 20. 22 to 25%. Average server, 20%. Yeah, my, okay, so... That's even to me that's like generous.

Okay, this is also part of my psychology, especially at like coffee shops and like restaurants is food costs have gone up. We talked about that. So like I know that it's harder than ever to probably operate a restaurant. Like the margins are so slim. So that pro, in my mind, I'm like, they're probably paying minimum wage.

But we're also paying $8 for a restaurant. coffee. I know that's what's so confusing is I don't like I know that the prices on the menu have gone up but how much of that is like factoring to the workers and so then I'm like I feel more responsible for the workers than like I do to the establishment and so I'm like the workers are probably getting paid most by the tips but it's very confusing because it all just sort of happened. What's the tipping standard in the USA? Let's see you at massing chat. 20% is very common default for good sit-down restaurant service, although traditional etiquette guidance still puts the range at 15 to 20% before tax.

That's another thing. Are you tipping off of tax? Because I always look at the amount that you're paying for the food. You always tip off of the tax. So that's even more. No, I just double the... Yeah, which is the tax amount. Yeah, I double the tax.

So you're supposed to tip 15 to 20% before tax. Recent restaurant data puts the average full service tip around 19%. So sit down restaurants is 18 to 20%. Bartender is $1 to $2 per drink. Hairstalless is 15 to 20%. I always tip 20% my hairstylist. Massage, I always do 20%. Taxi Uber around 15 to 20%.

Valet, $2 to $5. We always do that. Hotel housekeeping, $2 to $5 per day. I feel like we do way more than that. For hotel housekeeping, I feel like it's like $10 to $15. for hotel housekeeping um takeout not required around 10% if they provided extra service coffee counter service optional you don't have to tip just because the screen asks you what thank you so good i know well this is what chat says but that's the thing is like there's no and you don't need to tip

25 to 30% just because the iPad gives you those options for most traditional tip services 20% is very generous and completely normal. Yeah, I mean, that's fair. I just, yeah, it's confusing. It's a very okay. Okay. Okay. Um, I, I buy the carry gold butter. It's grass fed. It's definitely extensive. It's expensive. I understand that. I want to say like how expensive is it? Isn't it like $7 or $8? I don't know, but I do know that, um, like they used to say butter is bad for for you and then like now we're kind of on like a butter is really good for you train and it's the purity of the butter because you use it in so many things is important to me so i your irish butter yeah i really like what butter has like salt in it right so good salted butter it's such an

easy thing so good it's such an easy thing um also speaking of uh food creamy the ninja creamy yeah biggest advocate um it really is like a McDonald's McFlurry mcflurry Oh, this is, I only have two more. Okay. I think it's worth it to skip the Kindle. Okay. And buy what's called the books tablet, B-O-O-O-X. It's probably double or triple the price of a Kindle, like if you're getting the small one.

But the reason I bought that was because if you use the Kindle app and you buy the Audible book and the physical book, in the Kindle. in the Kindle app, it can like, as you read the book, it'll read audibly to you. Yeah. And I found that, I don't know, maybe I'm just not, I don't be good, but like that's the only way I can like comprehend books is like if I'm like reading it and listening to it too. And so I'll listen to it at like 3x speed, but it won't work on the Kindle, which is so crazy because you have to have the Kindle app.

So the books is like more of like just an e-ink like the black and white tablet. it. So that's a big hat. And then the best thing I think we've ever invested in is your boot job. Okay, we can move on. That led to the invention of our family. I got one after Stella. Yeah, I know. And then we had Stratton Summit and then Smith and the next one. Yeah. What do you feel like people splurge on that's like not worth it? Private. Private flying. Oh, see, I feel like that would be so worth it. No. I think it's like the quickest way to depletion of your wealth.

But it's so fun. Oh yeah. It's fun. No, 100%. Oh, I see. I feel like,

but I just don't, I think that like, um, if you're measuring the tradeoffs, the cost difference between first class and private. Yeah. It's so, it's so huge.

It's like 20 times. That like if you're doing that on a regular basis and you start like, and you start like injecting that into your veins. It's hard to go back. It's hard. It's like it's like going from mover black tuber X. You can't go back. It's like the single on my Reddit fat fire forums like it's a single thing that

people say not to do. Wow. That and multiple houses which we have to but like the people who collect like have two or three properties. Sorry. I think you're talking about multiple like um. Vacation homes. Vacation homes.

Vacation homes like. Vacation homes like investment. Yeah, but I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about like vacation homes. Like a home in Colorado. Yeah. People are like if you. So the reason we got a lakehouse within an hour and a half vicinity is because the people who like talked about this and studied it. It said if your home, your second home is more than two hours away, you will never go to it. We have a condo and bail and we've used it twice. Yeah. It's all. It's rented out. We rent it out. We kind of like use it as investment property. But the, yeah. I would say that the people who get rich and then fly private and or collect, yeah, buy multiple properties are actually just creating more work for themselves. And just like they're both just money pits. Money pits.

So the only time it makes sense to buy, like to fly private is if you're buying the plane as like a tax right off. And you have to be operating a business that's like well over $100 million to make that makes sense. Then how do you feel about like investment homes that you rent out? I think I think they're they're okay. But you get like a really good deal on it. I think the Airbnb like if anyone came to me and was like because we have three Airbnbs. If anyone came to me was like, oh, I'm going to do this Airbnb.

I would be like don't do it. It was big during COVID. What about our long term rentals? Yeah. I mean it just depends on like like, okay, index funds versus real estate. Like if you own real estate, you are creating more work for your. yourself. It is like it's like managing a business, which is a property. And it doesn't take a super amount of time, but it still takes like mental load to do. And whereas like, you know, most of

the conventional wisdom is like if you just put your money in equities, it's probably going to grow faster. And also it's like sit it and forget it. Like you don't have to do anything. So what about investing? Because we've also invested in like decent amount of commercial real estate. What do you think about that? Even more work. So don't. But bigger games. Like, I mean, it's just very illiquid too. It's like the more that you get into like commercial real estate, it's kind of like, like our, okay, like our if we were going to sell one of our office buildings. Like there's not this like large swath of a market that's looking for class A office buildings. Right. So then if you're like, hey, I need to sell this because I need the cash. It just gets harder. Whereas if you go sell your equities, you can do it in an hour. Right. Right. So there's just tradeoffs. We do both. And putting in Pokemon cards. Logan Paul. Talking about Logan.

Logan Paul versus Jake Paul from a wealth management standpoint is like, it should be studied. It's the craziest thing. Like Jake Paul bought his plane with all of his proceeds. So it's a huge tax write off for him. He lives in. Well, they both moved to Puerto Rico. So they're both smart for that. Like they took all the cash they're making from influencer, pay no taxes on it.

Jake, though, so there's this like very prestigious office complex in Dallas. It's called Old Parkland. It's the craziest place of urban. It's like, it's like, uh, it's like Hogwarts for, for family offices and business. It's like the wealthiest of the wealthiest of the wealth. The wealthiest of the wealthiest of Dallas, which is probably only one up by like New York, maybe L.A. It's like a boys club. It's like a boys club.

I don't think I saw one female there, which is so wrong. Leslie was moving there. I mean, um, are we playing putsy? So, Jake. not only hires a female to run his family office, he opens up his family office. This was like all over the news last week in Old Parkland, which basically is so smart strategically for him because what he just did was he is leveraging his fame and getting all up in the old money of Dallas and they're all going to want him in his deal flow because

it's just so interesting. And it's like why not? It's like why not. It's like you're going to invest with an old fart or like this really interesting millennial that are maybe Gen Z. Yeah. That has a lot like is very in tune with culture, reality. Because what's the one thing that all of these super wealthy guys at old

Parkland don't have? I mean that type of influence or fame. Fame. Yeah. And what is the like when you make all your money, what is the one thing you desire? Power and fame. Power and fame.

And he has the complete package. He's also created this fund called the anti fund, which is his VC fund, which means that he's getting into the earliest. rounds of like anthropic, open AI, like all of these companies, he's getting in at super cheap valuations. I mean, he, he is going to be a multi-billionaire. Whereas Logan is buying Charzard. And literally said on a finance podcast, he was like, yeah, I don't really believe in like traditional investing. He's like, I want to hold my, my assets and like NFTs, which is basically

like maybe he's right and maybe he strikes gold on like one to three things. Well that's why I think it'll be interesting to like study in 10, 20 years. Oh, 100%. See how it ends up. Yeah. It's it's crazy. Jake is very smart though. He bought land. Okay, so he bought these

this like 40 acre property. Okay. And or no, no I'm sorry. 400. It was like it's the largest ranch in Georgia. He buys all this land. Okay. Creates content around it. So he's probably doing some type of write off. you know and it's a huge depreciation thing for him then what he's doing is he's creating a membership

club to own basically plots of land on this 400 acres he's building a an air strip in there so it's basically like the wealthiest of the wealthy are going to move in there do you know like discovery land group they they own gauzerd ranch in idaho where all the celebrities go and then they own Trubador in Nashville. His whole model is he buys land and then he'll literally give like Patrick Mahomes or Tom Brady. He'll be like, hey, I'm going to let you buy in super cheap. These guys never come to their houses on these properties. Like why would like why would they travel?

They travel all over the place. But then he sells to super wealthy people who want to be close to fame and power. Right. And he's like, hey, do you want. Scott Schaffer lives here. Yeah. Do you want the property next. Yeah, do you want the property next to Tom Brady?

And I feel like Jake is doing that model. So he's he's taking the best VC model, the best real estate model, the best family office model. He's going to be a multi-billionaire. It's crazy. Who do you think he's like running all this for him though? Because like we know, you know that's a lot. He's hiring. He hired this guy named Jeff Wu, Jeffrey Wu to run anti-fund, former VC guy.

He hired someone from Merrill Lynch female to run his. family office. So he's just he's got the brain to like know, okay, I got to delegate and I need to hire presidents over all of these things. Yeah. Like he's just got the right mind. Do you think it's him hiring or do you feel like it's like his somebody on his team that's doing all this? I think he's really smart. I think he's really smart. I don't know. I kind of like I don't know if you're right about that because I listen to him on Theo Vonn's podcast and I don't think he's like that's. Okay. Well, then he's got some he's got some manager or team behind. him that is very, very smart.

He's either like a genius and is like one of those guys that can't talk or spell or he has somebody that is like doing all this for him. See, my thinking is that he's, okay, so I've heard him talk about the team 10 era, which was kind of his start. And if you, if you listen to him talk about it, he's like, he talks about the business model of team 10. And he was like, okay, well, so I front load all this and the people end up all screwing me. And then they get really jealous.

And then he's like, it's just a horrible business model. So Jake, the reason I think it's a lot more Jake than we think is he's had so many failures. And that's the only way you get to the wisdom that he has. And I feel like I empathize with them because I'm like, oh, he tried that move. We tried that move. He tried this. That's really hard. He does talk about how he would never move back to LA.

It was like a money suck. Exactly. It was so expensive. Everyone there is horrible. Like it does seem like he's gained some wisdom over experiencing some of these failures. Yeah. Really early on in life. So he's really young, but still making a ton of.

of money and now knows where to kind of yeah whereas Logan is making a ton of money and doesn't seem to have the wisdom around him to invest it well and that's just stubborn yeah maybe that's just the difference but they're both they're both super successful yeah it's just like if you fast forward 30 years Jake is going to be in probably a vastly different place than Logan right so interesting why were we talking about this I don't know oh we were talking about what we oh yeah things that I think I'm like well I'm going to say. Speaking of, you know what? One of the things I was going to talk about is when we were in Costa Rica, I was reading this article about, so Harvard did this study called the creator mental health study. Oh, that's so interesting. It's not good. Yeah, I could only imagine. It was no point. I could only imagine. I feel like creators are like the least happy people on the planet. No. And it was, it's, it's very interesting because what I was relating it to, I guess how I could tie it into this like Jake, Logan, Paul,

story is very similar to celebrity, unless you're like a Tom Cruise or a Tom Hanks or like these like legacy A listers, it's very common in show business to have like a short run like five, 10 years, right? And. And. Yeah. Those, but those are like the other the anomalies. Like they've been doing it for years and years and years. He's like off. He doesn't work anymore. He doesn't work anymore, but I think especially in the creator space, because like the attention span moves so much quicker, like if you hit gold, your best case scenario is to like take the cash you're making and dump it into the right assets, which is what I think Jake Paul is doing. He's like not thinking that his career is going to last forever. He's like, how can I basically create a financial moat around

myself with the cash I'm making now to carry me forever? Right. And, um, um, the, um, The reason I think that's interesting is because this creator mental health study came out, and I'll just read some things from it. Here's some of the headline numbers. 10% of creators reported suicidal thoughts connected to their work, nearly double the 5.5% rate in the general US adult population, 52% report anxiety, 35% depression, and 62% burnout sometimes or often. 43% report feeling isolated despite maintaining a public social presence.

One creator described it as being surrounded by comments while no one actually sees you or knows you. The most interesting finding is that it got worse with tenure. So the longer that you were a creator, the more that a lot of these feelings kept perpetuating. That's why everyone quits. That's why everyone quits. only oh I remember why I wrote this down I wanted to say I wanted to comment and congratulate you only 4% of creators with eight or more years rate their mental health as excellent versus 11% of those with only under two years of experience burnout climbs from 49% among newer creators to

74% among those with eight plus years and the reason I Oh, and this is where I'll end and then I want to congratulate you. This is why I think Logan and Jake is so interesting. Financial instability affects 81% of the eight plus year cohort, i.e. people made a ton of money, thought it was going to last forever, didn't invest it well, and then their relevance or their show business cuts off. And they're cash strapped. Athletes, creators, celebrities.

I mean, think about it. If I didn't do what I do now, What would I do? No, it's crazy. I didn't go to PT school. I could always go back to school. But like, I mean, yeah. Financial instability is the top concern affecting 69% of creators work.

So the reason I wrote that down and I was reading this in Costa Rica and I think you were like playing with our kids in the pool at this time. So I'm going to get deep for a second. Okay. You've been doing this for 13 years. 15 years. Sorry. 15 years. not only like okay so what I think there's a side of your success that I think is not fully understood

or comprehended by us and or others but like even by us or acknowledged and like appreciated like from a gratitude perspective which is that I think every stat that I read you've beat so like financial instability after eight plus years 81% you beat that um depression, anxiety, suicidal thoughts, burnout after eight plus years, four percent only reported not having that, you beat that. Like you're in that four percent. You're in the minority. Now there were a couple times the past couple years.

I was like, okay, this girl's about to burn out. It's not going to go well. It's not going good. It's not going good. And during those times, I remember being like, man, I, you know, I saw you wrestling with wanting to be successful in your career still. And I think that now that we're kind of like we moved in Nashville, we have a different rhythm, like you're a great mom.

There's like a back inside of success that I don't think we fully have the perspective to see or acknowledge a lot, which is that you actually are in a very small minority of creators that are successful in a totally different way. Yeah. You have longevity. You've been doing it for forever. You still love it. every day.

I love it. You have built financial stability outside of being a creator, which gives you freedom and flexibility to not feel burnout or pressure. Yeah. And I think you nipped a lot of the anxiety, isolation, depression that comes with never being good enough, that most people, that probably burns most people out. It eats them alive. It eats them alive when they go from being like the Alex Earl to a lesser version of

Alex Earl, they just are like, I can't top myself anymore. I think, first of all, thank you. I know. It's, it's actually crazy. Like, it made me really appreciate like what God has done in our lives because there are so many times where I was like, man, we're failing, we're failing, we're failing or feeling like, you know, it was slipping. But like in reality, like there's a, there's a success that I think he's given to us and our family and our marriage and to your career that we don't understand. And it's the success that only comes with longevity. longevity. And I do feel like becoming a mom and having like such a different purpose in my life helped a lot because I don't know if you, I mean, the 2018, 2019 era. The ride up. The ride up was, I mean, yes, but like if I had a post that didn't get what I expected it to get, y'all, it would eat me alive. I felt sick to my stomach. I would obsess over it. I'd be like, why is this not working? I care so much. Like, I'm not good enough. I'm not good enough. Nobody likes me anymore. I have to work. I have to work. work harder, I have to work better. And unfortunately, I do feel like that type of mentality

spits out pretty successful people because they're so unhealthy. Oh yeah. Yeah. They like obsess over it. So they work harder and harder. And there's just like this like need to prove yourself. I think if you're not compensating for something, it's really hard to be successful. Right. And so and I think that was a part of my career that like you weren't even present for, which was like that ride up the first two or three years, which was probably the worst three years of my life. Like I was so unhealthy. I was like the type of person that would sacrifice anything and everything, all my friendships, all my time taking care of myself, like anything and everything I could to get the next video out and like just succeed. And it was unfortunately,

like without that type of mindset, though, I don't know how I could have gotten where I was, where it was that fast. I know. So I feel like I got very lucky because I like kind of built this whole thing off of like very like off of quicksand and somehow I was able to dig myself out of the quicksand and like reestablished some type of foundation when I would say that 98% of the creators that I was creating with back then are gone now. Like the girls that I looked up to that I kind of built my like modeled my content off of are not they quit six years ago seven years ago. The funniest thing about that is I actually think that the I don't remember this for a fact but I think the article that linked to this Harvard study was actually about Zoella not creating content anymore. Zuela was like my I mean her

brother I had the biggest crush on her brother like I hung out with them at multiple events and like she was like the gold standard and it's like these people and she was so famous so famous back then all the girls that I was like they were so famous we couldn't go into like a target together They were just like mobbed by people. And none of them are even around anymore. And so, yeah, I do feel like a lot of where I'm at now came off of like came from very, very dark places. Like I don't think I did it well all throughout my career. And I don't think I definitely had like a lot of.

Even my first business that I launched Keeley D. It was a complete disaster. And so when we launched Dibby, it's like it was such a healthy great and it's such a healthy company because of the mistakes. we made, you know? So it is really interesting to look back at, but it's like, man, it was not linear. It was not, there's not one piece of advice that I'd be like, oh, this is what you have to do. And then this is what happens. I'm like, man, there were so much like luck, I feel like God's protection. God's also, I don't know, I wouldn't say anger or God's like, but discipline. Yeah, like God being like, no, I'm not going to give you that. I'm going to let you suffer through

these three years of not feeling good enough so that you understand like where your identity is actually found. I'm not going to give you that. I didn't ever have a viral video until like three years ago. I never went viral before. What was the what went viral three years ago? I mean I would say matchmaker stuff probably went your natural birth. Yeah stuff like that. I never had videos in the millions up until like three or four years ago. Yeah. So it is really interesting how it all like played out but but it's hard. In, other industry, I feel like you could be like, yeah, you build your business sustainable. You do a million this year, five million, and then it compounds. And you're doing 25 million in five years.

And you build like a sustainable growth path. I just don't think that that's how the algorithm works. It's like when you go viral, if you have a lucky moment, you have to go all in. That's how it is nowadays. I do feel like back then, maybe back in 2018 to 2020, there was this ability to kind of like build off of like content and build off of just like continue to grind and build and build and you grow slowly like nowadays I don't feel like it's that easy to grow you know so I do feel like you have to have like a viral moment it's so hard but you know this kind of like this reminds me a lot

of like have you heard about all the Perez Hilton stuff I told you a little bit about it but I mean I didn't watch the video yeah I mean I wouldn't watch it I saw like a blurred version of it but he's been around a long time. I mean, early 2000s, he kind of pioneered being a hater. Like, he kind of pioneered you know, celebrity gossip

and kind of like he was one of the first like faces to actually do it. And it all started on his blog. Like I remember reading or like looking at his blog years ago. I mean, I might have even been in high school. And he kind of built his

brand off of, you know, honestly, attacking people when they're at their worst, whether it was like Britney Spears or whoever it is, influencers, they got to be influencers. He was always at the forefront of like, when you're down, I'm going to kick you down harder, you know? And, but he recently, I would say, I don't know if it was like the past year or so, but you could tell that he had some demons and he has been struggling because he used to be so, so famous. And then it kind of got to this point where like people were like, Perez Hilton, who? Like, Nobody really.

I think what happened was sort of what happened to a lot of creators, which is TikTok came out. Yeah. And the media. Democatized hating. Yeah. The media shifted. And then I don't know if you remember this, but was it Charlie DeMilio got him kicked off? He got kicked off TikTok.

Oh, he did. Yeah. He got kicked off TikTok because he was bullying Charlie. And then I remember he was like. Well, he was back on obviously because that's how he did his life. Yeah. No. He got back on, I think, like a year or two.

ago, but he got kicked off. And so like even the culture that he was creating, he crossed like the wrong people and they got him kicked off. Right. So, you know, so he, um, but he probably like, he's still trying to get a lot of people. Yeah, he's trying to get back to the high. So, but he recently became a Christian. And so he started talking about how Jesus has saved his life. I think a lot of people were a little confused by it though, because he started like shilling these like Jesus shirts or like Mother Mary shirts. I can't remember what it is. So a lot of people were like kind of skeptical. of his faith, but he did start proclaiming Jesus and started saying, like, Jesus saved his life. And a lot of people truly believe what he is going through right now is a demonic attack

because of how many demons he had dealt with in the past and, like, the stronghold that is on him. And, but yeah, I mean, in this video, he has a breakdown and it's basically self-harming, butering himself with, like, a massive knife. on TikTok for like 30 minutes saying crazy stuff like he's butt naked he's like this hurts but it feels so good I need to do this for my children the cops are coming I hope they shoot me like he is just having I assume he was on some type of drugs because to endure that level of pain so like the way he's like butchering himself live he's not even like clenching with the pain so to me it makes me feel like he was on some type of drug that is it is it just the Christian circle that's saying it's

demonic or is it like secular people are like this is like I would say um because yeah I think secular people whether you believe in Jesus or not believe that there's demonic activity and a lot of people yeah yeah so it's yeah that's I mean that sounds straight demonic to me like he's he's covered in blood his whole face is covered in blood um but yeah I mean it's awful And I think it's put a lot of people into like this really, really hard place because especially a lot of celebrities that are like, hey, like it's kind of ironic what is happening right now. Like he was always there to criticize and hurt people when they were at their lowest of lows.

Like he was always the one on the forefront doing that. Like he's bullied and hurt so many people when they were suffering in so much pain. Yet now he's going through something and asking for privacy. And there's like so many people that are like, wait, but you didn't give that to me. And like, wait, you don't understand how much pain I was in. And you didn't, why would I give you that privacy? And it's like, I think it's been very, I don't know, just like eye opening for a lot of people and kind of existential where they have to like take a step back and be like, what type of person am I going to be in this moment? Because he's been so evil to others.

Like now does he really deserve this? and Josh Howardton was just on Sean Ryan talking about like forgiveness and Sean Ryan just has a really hard time with like trying to understand forgiveness when so many people have like used him and done him wrong and and it's like really related to me these are those are like the two pieces of news that I've been like listening to this week. Right. And it just it's just like to me it's like man I don't think anybody will be able to like give him the grace that that he should probably have. unless they're a Christian right now. Like no one's going to be able to like find that grace in their heart for him because of how evil he's been to people unless you understand the grace that Jesus has given you. Where you can find like empathy for him though or how I would.

And I never obviously like read his blogs or anything. They're pretty bad. Yeah. Well, I mean, but okay. My, my thought on it is that if we can acknowledge that it actually is like, spiritual and demonic, then it's kind of like every major I build a brand or a TikTok account off of some type of like hate. Always dies out.

It will a always dies out. Sometimes though, you get this moment of it dying out because you actually realize the person on the other end is insane. And all these people who had been like listening or following to that person, that person, it's you're following an insane person. Like there was a great example of this. won't say who it was, but there was like this big, no, but that's, I think that's one of them. But there was this account that went around the mommy blogger space, like exposing all these

mommy bloggers maybe three years ago and all the husbands to talk about it because it was like driving you guys like nuts. Well, they would also attack the husbands. And they would attack the husbands too. And anyway, this person was like on a high for like six months because it's always so. It was always so intriguing when they were able to like, give you this like she was evil she was evil well we all thought she was evil because you're like no she was like but from a normal person perspective she was even worse than preyselton no but but but but

but she got she garnered such a large audience of people that would consume what she was saying because it's so interesting yeah well it turns out like this this person you know made up a pregnancy like and then she just disappears because it ends up like she was just a huge liar yeah and I remember being like wow you know this person is evil and like all these people who are listening to it or maybe she's not evil what she's doing consuming it you know it ended up like the truth kind of was revealed and I feel like the way that people can empathize with Perez Hilton is if this is spiritual and like if the hate that he spewed for years was like some type of like spiritual demonic force moving through him, which or strongholds, however you want to call it, then it's like

the very nature of like exorcism or deliverance, you know, is like helping him find freedom from that, you know? Right. And if you can see it. Like praying for the people that hurt you. Yeah. Well, or even just understanding that like, hey, you know, looking past his actions and being like he's under oppression by like spiritual forces that are trying to I think now we can say it quite literally kill him. Yeah. And it's like we should pray for freedom from him because what is the greatest act of like redemption or the gospel that you would ever see? It would be. Yeah. It would be Perez Hilton being freed from some type of like spiritual demonic oppression. And the craziest would be like and the people that he hurts the most end up forgiving and loving him. Yeah, 100%. That's how. And that's just. And that's

just like honestly like I think over the past year we were never like charismatic hyper spiritual people we we experienced some things like ourselves and we saw 180 in people of like oh this was like when they were dealing with like demonic oppression and this is like them after and it is it is like a flip of the switch when you find freedom and those demons are driven out like it was it it can look like someone becoming a new person. Yeah, it's just, it's so hard though because you also have to figure out like what door did you open to where that like spiritual oppression, that portal was opened where you started. Like you have to close that.

And a lot of people like I don't sometimes you don't know if they're like strong enough to close that like it reminds you of even Theo Vaughn's podcast where he was like talking about, you know, the guy. the well, the pool or whatever. Yeah. The blind guy at the pool, Bethesda, is that it? He picked up his mat. Yeah, no, and he was like, and Jesus asked him like,

okay, like I'm gonna heal you, but like, do you wanna be healed? And like a lot of times people are like, wait, I don't know if I want to be healed. Like I don't know if I actually, and Theo Vaughn was like, I don't know if I, I don't know. But you get so used to set in your ways that you're like fearful. of what that would look like. But even in our experience, that's what we experienced too. There were, with this person, there were long stints of,

uh, of this isn't demonic. This isn't spiritual, which is the demonic in and of itself being crafty and tricky. And then it was like, you know, I think there's probably this side of it. It's like, do I deserve to be healed? Yeah.

And I think sometimes the hardest thing is like, understanding for us that grace is so big that like, It's, it's the, the best way to accept grace is to feel like you can accept it and like you're deserving of it. It's the most like counterintuitive thing to be like, I know what I've done, but I know that the gospel is bigger than this. It's, it's almost an acknowledgement of God, God's power to be like, I can have this and I can accept this. So that's like step two. And then step three is like, I don't think that there are several situations that I've heard about or seen directly where that person can't free themselves. Like the oppression is so deep and so generational and so powerful that like it does require someone who understands or with the gifting to command in Jesus's name to pull that out.

And I feel like Perez Hilton needs like SEAL Team 6 exorcist to pull this thing out. And I really do feel like he does. My stance is that he deserves it. And like, I think that the greatest testimony of the gospel would be seeing him free from that oppression. I agree. I have to pee so bad. And you know, I would never do this unless I had to pee like that bad. Okay, I'm back.

So I actually think this will be a really good segue into the Lindsay Clancy case. Ooh. Talk about demonic oppression. Yeah, we're going, we're going dark this episode. We're going dark. So Jordan actually hadn't heard of it. But I guess because I'm a mother who has struggled with postpartum, it is all I see on my feed right now. And her case is actually like happening right now.

So it's super relevant. And a lot of people, especially all the women that are like into true, true crime are like heavily invested. But Lindsay Clancy actually have like a little some notes on it that I will read for you. Yeah, maybe just like tell me. Yeah, everything. Like I, because I actually did kind of forget some of the details. So Lindsay Clancy was a Massachusetts mother and former labor and delivery nurse, which is interesting, who was accused of killing her three young children in 2023.

She has pleaded not guilty with her defense arguing she was suffering from severe mental illness, including postpartum psychosis. Prosecutors argue her actions were intentional and planned. So basically, before I get. you know, keep going. If anyone is postpartum and like this is like really sensitive to them, I would honestly just turn off the podcast now and just like end it now because this one actually really was challenging for me to follow. But it's also something that I was interested in because I've gone through postpartum depression and just I think if anything good happens from this case,

I just hope that it helps a lot of other women that are struggling that just can't get like the right care. And so I do feel like it's a helpful conversation, but this case in particular is very sad. And like, I know for me, when I was in the thick of postpartum, I probably would not want to be hearing about this case right now. So that's just kind of like a little disclaimer. So she was married to this guy, Pat, Patrick. Patty. And she started having like really, so she was her three small children. She had really bad postpartum. What were their age? At the time they were, let's see, I think it was eight months, three and five, pretty close together. She stacked them.

Yeah, so she stacked them. And everyone in her life says she was an amazing mom. She started struggling with like postpartum, anxiety, depression, lethargy, suicidal thoughts and was journaling about it. would tell her husband she was very open about it she and you know she had time she had times where she thought about like hurting herself or the children she told him about it and you can even like like some of her journal entries were read in court and it was like today I'm gonna like I can do today like it's hard for me to live right now it's hard for me to get through the day like she's very vulnerable about everything she was put on 13 medications over the series of like a couple

months to deal with insomnia, anxiety, depression, and psychiatric symptoms. She was on Ambien, conopin, valium, prozac, lamictole, demude, or lamotrigin, Ativan, Remarin, Syracquel, Zoloft, hydrozine, amphrideline, I don't know, and then Busebar. So she also at the time had been seeking treatment from Dr. Tufts, Julie Paula psychiatric provider, a therapist named Latisha Dukes, an evaluation through a woman in Infants Hospital

in Rhode Island and McLean Hospital. McLean psychiatrist and residence evaluated her. So she's like... She went through at all. She was seeking a lot of help. Right. And one day she sent her husband out and she's like, hey, can you go pick up this prescription for her youngest? Or no, it was her girl.

And then can you stop and get like, you know, some fast food or takeout on the way back home? And so he was gone for like maybe 30 minutes or so. And while he was gone, she strangled all three of her children. Then she cut both of her wrist and her neck, tried to commit suicide by jumping out of the second story of her house. house and she didn't die. So when he got home, he saw her and like went to help her. And she was still alive and he's like, wait, like, where are the children? She tells him, you know, she's going in and out of consciousness. She tells him like they're in the basement. So he goes in there and finds them. Horrible. Horrible, horrible story. So right now what this whole trial is about is she's pleaded non-guilty

saying she was going through. Because like a postpartum psychosis. can include like hallucinations, just like crazy thoughts. You start hearing voices, like if it gets really, really bad. And then on top of that, you have these 13 medications that she wasn't like on, she would take like a different medication. Like if you look at the days she was prescribed, it was like every three or four days. She was like prescribed a new medication. Like it was great.

They don't even work in that time. They don't work that way. And I, but here's the thing that I will stay going through postpartum depression is like, you need something instantly. like because you don't have a week or two to take care of the children and like like you need something that works like the next day but these medications don't work like that and that's just part of it and um and so she was like really really struggling but a lot of her journal entries talked about how anxious she was to go back to work because her maternity leave was coming to an end and she was really sad about that and she had a lot of anxiety about it and she kept telling her husband it feels very unnaturally. for me to leave my newborn. Like it just felt really odd and you've heard me say that like it just feels very unnatural for like a newborn to like not sleep in the same room or not to be like breastfeeding or whatever it is for each mom. And so like it was very, you know, obvious that she loved her children. Like he even Pat like on the stand said she was like an amazing mom.

Right. So the crazy thing like I think what a lot of people are discussing with. this case is just postpartum mental illness psychosis medication management and criminal responsibility a lot of people are trying are you know trying to decide like does she deserve to go to jail for the rest of her life because she was basically insane at the time um or does she like deserve to be given a break or not right um and i i don't it's just like such a dark dark case but i will say as Someone that is, for me personally, like I am, I've always been a generally very optimistic person. And I've always been up, like, one of the people, ever since I was a little, like, I wake up, I'm like, today's a new day.

I'm going to conquer the day. Today's going to be the best day. Live in the moment. Even for someone with like me that had great resources, family, great doctors, you know, a therapist to talk to, a great involved husband. and I even went through the postpartum depression where I was like every day I don't want to be here. And I have never ever had had thoughts like that in my life. This was after Stella. And that's why postpartum, that is why everybody always asked, why did you do it on Medicaid birth?

Why did you cut this? Why are you doing it this way? Why do you have a nanny even? And, you know, people that rag on moms for doing things certain ways, doing things certain ways, whether it is having unmedic birth or having extra help because of it. You don't know what that person is going through. And like you don't know what the type of stability and support that they're needing. Maybe they don't actually need help logistically.

Maybe they need help mentally. And that's mental illness like doesn't discriminate against like whether you're successful in life or poor in life or those or that. Like anyone and everyone can experience that. And apparently she had hired a nanny at like, I don't know. how much postpartum, but like she only worked for like two weeks because apparently Pat said like her husband said that she wasn't, she was still, the mom was still doing everything. So they're like, why do we have a nanny here? But I guess my point is, is like, even me who had so many resources struggled with that. I can't imagine someone that didn't have the amount of resources or

dealt with mental health in like an even more extreme way. Like I've never had those. to my life, but I did whenever I was postpartum. Yeah. That was the first time I ever touched an antidepressant. Now, for me personally, I touched it. I did Luxor probably like literally a week later. I was like, I'm back, baby. And like, it's been a lifesaver for me.

But like, I just remember thinking, I remember thinking two things all the time. I want to dig myself in a hole and stay there. Like, it wasn't even like a suicidal thought. I just remember being like, I want to run away and never come across anyone I know ever again. Like, I remember thinking that. or dig myself in a hole and never come out. Because I think a part of postpartum, like those type of thoughts is like you feel like

you're a burden on everyone else. Because you know that you're not healthy and you know that something is off. And so you feel bad for everyone else around you. So you're like, it'd be better for everyone if I wasn't here. And does she write about guilt a lot in her journals? Do you know?

Yeah. I mean, I remember reading something like shame and guilt. About like, I know I'm not well. Yeah, all she wrote about, she was like, I just want to be, I want to feel better. I want to feel better. And that's exactly what I would say all the time.

Do you remember? And then the other thing that I always, I obsessed over was death. I obsessed over my own death whenever I was. And it wasn't suicidal thoughts. It was like just death in general. Like what's the, why are we here? What's the point of life? Like it was obsession like over and over and over again.

And now for me, once I started taking that Lux Pro, it was like, like, I was literally a different person. And it saved me. But you were also like, you were, I mean, you started Lexapro after Stella, but you still went through all of those things every pregnancy. No, I know, I know, but like I'm just saying, that was something that helped me that first time.

And I feel like once you get it down that first time, then you like aren't so sensitive to like, then you kind of know what's going on. Right. And then you're able to be like, hey, I know what's going on. I need to talk to someone, this isn't normal. And not only that, but you know that you can get to the other side of it.

You know, like, because I'm not gonna lie to you, the reason why you get those horrible thoughts is you feel like you'll never come out of it. You feel like you'll always be depressed, always feel this way. So then that's whenever it like digs you deeper and deeper and deeper. And it's a horrible place to be whenever these kids are like relying on you so much. So all I'm saying is, is like I know what I went through and I know that I'm a very like mentally healthy person. Right. And so I can't imagine like my thing is though it is hard. hard for me to understand how it gets that bad. But like, because that's next level shit right there, you know?

Yeah. But the one thing that I hope that this case does just bring to light is like, it's, you know, her husband took the stand and one of his biggest things was like a lot of the appointments that she had for her, um, psychiatrists or therapists, they were all virtual. And I guess she was having a hard time. He got to the point where he was like, we are not doing anymore, any more virtual. appointments. You need to go in person. They're prescribing you all these crazy medications.

Like you need to, it's different. Like you need to have. So he was kind of advocating on her behalf. Now I asked. I just, it's like it's so hard because I don't, I don't know anything about this guy, but as a husband, you just want to like help and you just want to fix it. And I could see how that would go down an accidental path of like, let's try this. Let's try this. And then it's like, okay, we've got to stop trying all these things. So a lot of people, and I couldn't understand this yet because I hadn't like, I don't know, I didn't do enough of a deep dive to understand, but a lot of people say he was like a very absentee dad.

So people say that Lindsay appeared to be carrying a lot of the mental load. People have focused on testimony describing Lindsay handling many everyday parenting responsibilities while she was severely struggling appointments care, appointments caring for the baby. meals, routines, etc. But the evidence doesn't establish that Patrick simply wasn't parenting. He testified that they alternated preschool drop-offs and pickups and cared for the children together, and he'd taken 12 weeks of paternity leave after Callan was born. They also hired a nanny and then let her go.

This is probably one of the biggest details feeling the criticism. They hired a nanny around August or September 2022 for approximately 12 hours per week, primarily to help with baby Callan. According to Patrick, they eventually stopped using her because Lindsay was home too. Critics are asking if she was already struggling mentally, why remove additional child care? Number three, he knew she had thoughts involving herself and the children. Patrick testified that approximately a month before the killings, Lindsay had expressed thoughts about harming herself or the children. He asked whether she thought she needed to be kept away from them, and she said no.

Patrick described being confused because immediately afterwards she could appear completely normal, making lunch, playing with the children, or putting them to bed, and he said, he'd never seen her physically harm them. Number four, he didn't know everything about her treatment. His testimony revealed gaps in what he knew about Lindsay's care. For example, he didn't know exactly how many prescribed pills she was taking, wasn't aware of some therapy sessions, and didn't know she'd taken only small amounts of certain prescriptions.

I mean... Where... He is publicly expressed forgiveness toward her while continuing to grieve the loss of their children. So the weirdest part about this whole case is like there's also this whole other rabbit hole. You can go down on TikTok, which I don't believe this personally. But a lot of people think that he did it because none of her DNA was found on any of the like tools. I won't even say what it was.

Whatever was used to strangle the kids. And none of her DNA was found on it. It was all of his. He got married, remarried like four months after and has another like a new baby, basically like a new family. He's a new baby? Yeah. Already, yeah. When did this happen? This happened, 20, 23.

But he got remarried four months after, which is crazy. That is. And then, yeah, so a lot of people are like, he did it type of thing. Apparently the way that, like, her cuts were on her wrist and her neck, like, the angles don't make sense for her doing it herself. Yeah. I don't believe any of that because she actually did admit to doing it. It's just that people are trying to decide if she was, like,

what percentage of women go through? like postpartum depression or psychosis or whatever you would call that. I don't know because I don't think a lot of people talk about it. And it is kind of a temporary thing. It's so intense while you're in it. But a lot of times you do get out of it. And sometimes obviously you don't. But I mean, I don't know.

I had never heard of anybody going through it. And I think now like I think just as a whole our generation is so mentally ill that like a lot of boomers are like, well, I never went through that. So it's like our mom and dad, our parents weren't very helpful. in it because I think they just didn't have a lot of like those stressors that lead to mental illness like we do. Yeah, for sure. I mean, um, yeah, this is what this is a tough one. No, I know. It's it's tough one because I agree with you that no one talks about like, if you go on Instagram, it's like all just like, oh, babies like having a baby. And then it's so annoying because it's like if you do say that you have help, people just shit all over you. And it's like, no, those. Those,

I mean. It's like straight up like ridiculous. Like the amount of hate that I got for taking Brenda to Costa Rica or. You did? Oh really? Yeah. Or the amount of like nanny hate that I get like stuff that's posted everywhere. Like and it's like dude.

I get it. The people. The past five years of our lives have been hard. Like with your like I mean to the point where no one would ever know what you went through. Right. And it's like, dude, sometimes it's not even the logistics of like making the kids lunch. It's like just having support maybe mentally or like also having support from a nanny that's just there. Um, while we're both like our hours are kind of weird. And so it's not like we have like this structured job where it's like but having that support to know that like my kids will always be

taken care of no matter what like no matter what like. No. or what we're going like that is so comforting to me or you know even being able to just drop them off at a daycare or a Spanish school or whatever and people moms get hate about that all the time well the worst thing you can do to a mom struggling with like guilt and shame and anxiety is tell them they're not good enough because they have a nanny or because their kids are like it's just it's I think you're right you said it best like this doesn't discriminate I mean like there was no amount of money or resources or like pharma we could have thrown at this problem. In fact, I think that like as an enneagram one, like,

trust me, I think I tried. Like I think I tried everything to bring you out of what felt like this deep, dark place. Every pregnancy and I got better at it from Stella to Stratton to Summit to Smith of realizing- Because nobody can pull them out except- Except them. And in fact, I think the more I tried to help sometimes,

like the more that it probably interfered with your ability, like you pulling yourself out, right? Right. Because it's like, hey, I, it's very counterintuitive. It's like that good husband syndrome where it's like, you know, the more I tried, the more it hurt you. Yeah. And sometimes like it was like you didn't need nannies.

Like in fact, there were probably too many nannies around, which was my fault. And because I was like, oh, like she needs help and support. But it's like, no, you actually needed to get up to fight through it. to fight through it and get up and do it yourself. And so, but none of the, there's no playbook for this because no one talks about it. Right.

You know, it's just like, oh, sweet, you have four kids. Like, I think you posted something a couple weeks ago. Or I, I think I said it and you posted it.

And I was like, we were looking at like our four kids and I was like, no one will ever understand the blood, sweat and tears that like went into building this family. Yeah. And it's not even just like the, it's the pregnancies. It's the mental health.

It's the physical pain. It's a lot. And that's every family. No, it's every family. And so the fact that people even feel like they have the right to comment on the way that you seek support for your family, whether it's, you know, dropping them off at a school or what school you send them to or if they have help or a nanny or a daycare. It's like, dude, you have no idea what these families are going through and what these moms are going through. It's like.

Especially the families that are like doing it back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back. Oh, dude. Not to rank them, but it's like, I mean, the fact that it was like, you know between summit and Smith why it was like such a just crazy moment when we found out you're pregnant with Smith was because like you were just coming out of the fog yeah it was like but no you weren't even out of the fog it was like already a really trying time in our marriage yeah three months first part of him I was really struggling and then I got pregnant again and then I went into like the deepest depression in my first trimester because all I could think is oh my gosh this is going to be my

life for the next nine to 10 months. Like I'm going to be so sick. I'm going to feel horrible. Like and here's the thing. For me personally, the babies were never what were hard. It was the pregnancies and the pregnancies. Like the postpartum's were always always obviously hard. But like I actually had a different type of postpartum where like all I wanted to do was be with my kids. And all I wanted to do was like and a lot of moms experienced postpartum where they just want to shut off from their kids or they want to be away from them. Mine was like I just want to hold it. them 24-7. But, yeah, it definitely looks different for everyone, every family.

And so, yeah, it just says, it really kills me whenever people, like, comment on. Can I also just say one thing, like, okay, so Savannah and Colabrant are, they made a video about how they're homeschooling their children. And they are getting, like, hate online from all these talking heads that are so opinionated about, because apparently, like, Savannah was like, yeah, like, I'm going to do, like, math and reading, and then he's going to do history. She's like, that way, like, I don't really love teaching history, and that way we can really just teach our kids, like, what we want them to know about history. And all these people are making videos about, like, wow. So, like, you need to be

educated. Like, you need to have, like, a certificate in order to, like, homeschool your kids. Because basically what you're saying is you're going to teach them what you want them to know and, like, basically just kind of, like, brainwash them into what you need to know. So therefore we need to follow this government regularly. Yeah. And so it's like people are making videos like this should be illegal for families to homeschool their children. It is so frustrating. It's like you guys like you can't win.

You have parents that are totally absent and don't care about their kids' education, drop them off, have no investment. And then you have parents that care too much. You can't, you can't win. It's like to me I see two parents that are homeschooling because they care so much about their kids. They're not going to do it perfectly, but they're trying their best. And they're trying to, like, figure out the right way to do it and sharing that experience online because they probably don't, they probably want to protect their kids from some crazy stuff going on in the world. And, like, that's what I see, but the internet can't see it because they just want to find the fault in everything.

Well, I mean, it's a certain part of the internet. Like, I mean, it's, but it is kind of crazy. When you flip the argument on its head, it's like, okay, so. Like these parents, they. saying like yes these these parents are not like trained educators but like you you above that believe like the state should develop a curriculum and like cares about each child individually like I guarantee those same talking heads are also criticizing the education system at the same time and so it's like what's the solution that's the thing is like I challenge everyone if you're going

to make a criticism about about it then what's the alternative or here's the thing you'll never ever know because you're not that person. You're not, you're not the Librance. Like, you're not our family. Like, you can come in and try to tell me that I shouldn't have a nanny, but you don't know what goes on behind closed doors. You don't know what the alternative would be because you have no idea. So, like, quit commenting on people's. So my question is, do we understand much scientifically about what, so every, everyone, every female who's pregnant goes through postpartum. Like they all have the baby and then go through it. Do we understand anything scientifically about like what separates the herd between like,

oh, you're fine through postpartum or these are normal symptoms? Versus like, oh, you're having thoughts about death to like what happened with this person where she like got suicidal and murdered her children. Like do we understand like what's going on hormonally or mentally? There actually was a post that like some doctor was explaining like what happens to. a woman's brain and body and like all that stuff like when they are postpartum and all of the hormones that drop and but everyone is different so it probably affects everyone differently so there actually was something like that but I mean yeah I mean look at look at the night sweats

look at the hair loss look at the it it's crazy all these things that women are going through and of course like all those medications like probably didn't help do you think that like do you think it's all hormonal or do you think that like there are aspects of it that are like spiritual warfare during postpartum? I'm just curious. I know we have to wrap up but I'll just close with this. Yeah, I think that whenever you're postpartum like there are some doors and like portals that you could open. Yeah. And whether it's just like like scary thoughts that you let your mind wander down or maybe you're not like protected in the right way because you don't have like the right like armor of God on like I don't know like there's.

But it does seem like it's a very vulnerable time that like Satan knows that he can attack. Yeah. And I I agree with that because if the guy got remarried after four months, he was for sure having an affair. It seems like I don't know. I don't know that. But like I also think it's like a, I think that in those times, I've never felt more vulnerable to, you know, it feeling like our, our family was trying to be destroyed. You mentally were trying to be destroyed. Our marriage was trying to be destroyed. So I'm not saying it. It's obviously hormonal. but it was a deeply spiritual trying time too. Yeah. Okay, bye. I know I hate to end the podcast in such a somber topic,

but like I said, I do think it's helpful to just like normalize postpartum care and, you know, just more people will be thinking about it and sensitive to the time because it is really hard for moms. So anyway, I would love for you guys to follow us on Instagram and TikTok. Check out DeEmplance Podcast. And I guess we'll love to you later.

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