De-Influenced with Dani + Jordan - What’s Really Going on in Modern Day Hollywood with 2521Entertainment

Episode Date: August 7, 2025

Y'all know we are obsessed with Hollywood and the inner workings of the filmmaking industry so we are so excited for today's guests!  Please welcome 2521 Entertainment's Tyler Zacharia and David Hunt. This duo is helping us De-Influence Modern Day Hollywood and giving us some insight into what's really going on in the current filmmaking world. It was so much fun to pick Tyler and David's brains about the industry and what their mission with 2521 entertainment aims to achieve.  We hope you like this podcast!! We scored some great deals with a few of our favorite brands for our listeners: Huggies Little Snugglers, now with blowout protection in every direction* *Sizes 1-2. Huggies. Huggies.com. Come hang with us at Dear Media IRL on Thursday, October 11th in Dallas! Head to dearmedia.com/events for all the details and to grab your tickets! Go to MagneticMe.com today – new customers will get 15% off their first order! Don’t wait, that’s magneticme.com. Visit rollerrabbit.com and take 20% off your purchase of $150 or more withcode DANI at checkout. Visit LiveConscious.com today and make the switch to a smarter sip with Beyond Brew. Use code DANI to receive 15% off. If you’re ready to build your own business—whether it’s merch, a passion project you’ve been sitting on, or even a summer side hustle, get on Shopify.com/dani and make it happen! Make your life easier—shop Amazon.com for college. With Amazon’s low Off-to-College Prices, just save on college, save the everyday. Make sure you’re subscribed to our official channel on YouTube, @deinfluencedpodcast, and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your De-Influenced fix! Stay connected with us on Instagram and TikTok @deinfluencedpodcast, and as always thank you for being a part of this journey.  we love y'all!!

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Okay, y'all, we've got some major news to share. Yep, for the first time ever, we're going to be talking on stage to represent de-influenced at Dear Media in real life. It'll happen this fall and we'll be live in Dallas on October 11th. You haven't heard, Dear Media, IRL, is the ultimate live experience, bringing your favorite creators in conversations straight to you. And we're seriously so excited to be a part of it.

It's going to be a new thing, us. No, I know. We'll be diving deep into the divvy journey, sharing how we turn an idea into a real business, how we stay in line with our core values and what it really takes to build a career you love while navigating life, family, balance, a.k. We're having a de-influenced conversation live. So whether you're building your own brand or figuring out what's next for you, this is going to be one thing you don't want to miss. So come hang out with us on Thursday, October 11th in Dallas. Head to DeerMedia.com slash events for all the details and to grab your tickets. Okay, this is another Jordan episode of D-influenced.

What you guys don't know is every once in a while, I get my own guests. And people love my guests. My guests are hot. They're very unique. They're very rare. I don't think any time ever we've had anyone from Hollywood on this podcast. So why don't you guys introduce yourselves just quickly, say your name and tell me a little bit about 2521 entertainment. Well, it's hard to beat hot, unique, and rare.

Well, you are those things. You just gave me. So maybe just take that. My name is David Hunt, and I'm the co-founder and chief content officer of 2521 Entertainment. Tyler Zachariah, C.O. of 2521 Entertainment, live in L.A. with my four kids and wife and been working in 2521 for the last three years. Yeah. And I want to specify this on the beginning, so people don't drop off.

These are the main producers behind the House of David, correct? 2521? I wouldn't go that far. Okay. What would you say your connection to the House of David was? House of David were mainly invested into the company that made it called the Wonder Project. Okay. And doing a bunch of co-investment stuff with them as well and production as well.

So 2521 Entertainment, explain to us lay people what that is in your eyes, the company. You want to take it? Yeah. We, I mean, just to give you a little bit of background, how old are your kids? right now? I have a three-year-old and a almost five-year-old. Okay. And so you're... Sorry, five-month-old. You're about to enter the phase I'm talking about here. From the time your child is six to the time they're 18, they will spend about 28,000 hours on screens. That's just over a third of their

waking life. They'll spend a little less than 16,000 hours in school. They'll spend a little less than 6,000 hours eating and they'll spend less than 5,000 hours with you. So you're one-sixth of what screens give them. And screens are telling them stories one way or another all the time. And those stories are having an impact on who they become, what they value, what they don't value. And one way or another, this is something that I think is missing from our culture. We are very quick to think about what we put in our kids' mouths, what they eat, as we should be. we're very quick to think about even more now than used to be what they're doing physically exercise

and that's only 2,000 hours by the way of exercise they're going to do in that time but I think there's a hole in the conversation in the sense that we don't talk that much about the stories are being told and that's over a third of their waking life all that time really matters stories are vitally important and so one way or another you as a parent are responsible for building the cathedrals of your children's imagination. What are you going to put in there? The culture is not giving us much to work with right now in that regard. So we started 25-21 as a way to help fix that

and to help renew and revitalize a culture that we think is in trouble through the power of mainstream entertainment. Where did the name come from? That's something the founders and I put together and we kind of, you know, we're kind of holding back on making that public. It's a, it's a kind of an inside thing. And so, uh, maybe someday we'll let you know, but it's, it's a, yeah, it's, I was trying to get the breaking news. I know. Hey, I'll tell you what, though. If we do ever say, we'll come on you. Okay. Fair, fair, fair.

Um, and I think to your other question, I'm the, I'm the business finance guy. He's the creative guy. So it's a good mixture. But I think what makes 25, 21 unique in the space compared to some others is we're both a production company where we're buying books, writing scripts, putting together projects, actually producing films, and a finance company as well. We may be financing our own stuff, or we could be stepping in and financing other people's films, other people's companies to support people that are like-minded or support projects that we care about. So it runs along the gamut.

So you asked about House of David. That was more on the financing side than it was us being involved in the production. What's the split producing your own productions or films or short films or TV series versus financing? If you're talking about raw projects, raw films or television in general, it's more on the financing side because it takes a lot more work to actually do. We can step into a financing position and leverage all of our time on a project that we're actually making. So it's harder to, from a volume perspective with the amount of people, we have to. But this is an evolving thing where we are putting our own projects into production. We've made a film already that's in post-production now in Fortune Shadow. We've taken bigger steps in

movies like Reykjavik and things like that where we've had more of a role in the producing. And so this is an evolving project for us to have more and more content that we actually come out of in-house. The reason I was excited to talk to you guys is I think that there's a, I think it's right time for your company to exist because I think, there's a movement, especially amongst parents, of feeling exactly what you said. Right? So I think it's an interesting time in Hollywood history. I'm just going to label it Hollywood because that's what people will understand it as, where the business model seems to be changing a lot. The way that we consume it seems to be changing a lot. You know, theaters going on

the decline. We have a Gen Z podcast producer. I don't think she's ever been to a movie theater. But, you know, we, I think the way we consume it, you know, what net, is telling us is the top 10. So in some ways, it's more controlled than ever of saying, oh, you should like this. There's more content than ever. But everything seems to be shifting. And I think what most American families want is to know that what we're exposing our children to and probably even ourselves is has, how do I say this, is not cheesy Christian,

is quality, but also has some semblance of values to it. And it feels like I was excited to talk to you guys because it seems like that's the gap you're trying to fill. Right? Absolutely. And it's, you know, it is more than just, you know, most parents, myself included early on, you can, you kind of go through this process when you talk about showing something to your children of, is there something negative in it like bad language? Is someone take their clothes off? Something like that. And then the second thing is, are they going to like it?

And that's basically it. And that's really not enough. again because of the amount of time that is spent on screens by people, and yourself included, it's not just your kids. These really, you know, I mean, Jesus, most of his preaching was done through stories for a reason. We were built for stories. Stories are equipment for living.

They make you who you are in so many ways, and they inform what you believe and what you think. And culturally, they inform what's honored and what's shamed. You know, so who is telling the, you know, so who is telling the story? stories in our culture is largely responsible for what we think is right and wrong in many ways. So, yeah, they're vitally important thing. So here's where I want to start. You were a, I wrote it down, a computer systems engineer.

Yes. In Arkansas. And now you're in the movie business. I wouldn't say I was a computer system engineer. That was my first major. That's what your bio says. Well, I was a computer system engineering major. And, you know, I realized in college that I was spending, now it's with ChatGPT,

this is crazy, but at the time you spent like 12 hours coding and you'd make a window open up or something like that. That was, you know, your big win. And it was laborious for me. I mean, it was a great time for that major. It was a great career. But then I noticed that while it was hard for me to spend 12 hours at a computer doing that, it was very easy for me to spend 12 hours of computer editing a project I'd shot or something like that, which is a hobby. I was like, this is, if I'm jumping out of bed to do this, I should be doing this and not that. So I switched over to film. The transition still doesn't compute for me.

So did you, I mean, were you always interested in, like, film and telling stories? I was, since I was very little. You know, I was attracted to storytelling. I was a kid when we got a camera. I picked up the camera. Got it. Started shooting a whole movie, started pulling the kids in and, you know, getting, dressing up in Indiana Jones outfit and jumping off my roof onto a pack.

passing car and, you know, all kinds of things like that, almost killing myself many times. Do you still have these home movies? I have some of them, yes. Funny. Yeah. So I need to get those digitized and up and re-traumatize my mother. But, you know, you don't really, when you're coming from Arkansas, you don't really think of that as something that is a possibility for a career. And so you go, I know, I was actually eating lunch at a pizza parlor with a friend of mine who was only considering going into computers at the time.

and someone behind us stood up and said, here's my card I work for, I think it was J.B. Hunt or something like that. Call me when you're out of school. We're looking for, you know, and he's like, I'm not even in that major yet. I'm just talking about it because I don't care. Call me when you're done.

So that's why I was like, you know, well, this is obviously a in-demand thing. You got scooped up early on and you kind of got a nudge to go in the film direction. I got a nudge in college. You know, I was thinking, what am I going to do for my life? And computers seemed like something that, you know,

made a lot of sense financially, but then film was never went away. At what point in your career did you have the conviction of saying, you know, I don't want to just make films. I want to make films that have the values you're trying to create through. I think as I became, I grew up as what I would call a nominal Christian. And, you know, so there was never a point in my life where I didn't consider myself a Christian. But I was a Christian in the sense that a lot of people I think in the United States are more cultural, I would have told you if you said you believe in Jesus Christ.

Of course, I would have said yes and all that. But it wasn't the focus of my life for a long time until I got older, actually, until I had children. And I got into people like C.S. Lewis, William Lane Craig. There was a big, you know, these writings from me kind of turn on a light in my mind and showed me things that it seems like they're already there, but they showed them to me clearly. And once I started going down that road, it started to become trivial. to think of some of the stories that I was offered.

I did a movie called Greater about the life of Brandon Burlesworth, you know, greatest walk on in college school history. What year was that? Did you do that? Came out in 2016, theatrically.

As a follow-up to that, someone, you know, called me, and at one point offered me a movie called Call of Booty. As a, I guess, on words. Yeah, a parody film.

And I was like, did you see the movie I just made, you know? And, but this is the kind of stuff I was getting offered. I was like, I've got to really, I can't go down this road that a lot of directors have gone down before where they just kind of have to go along the current of what good project they're offered. I want to be more in control of not only what I do with my time,

but also, you know, these works can last for decades. Things like, like people still talk about greater. I still get, you know, all kinds of stories about it, that how it's helped people. And so you see that impact, you see what the marker these are leaving behind. And You can't, if you're going to spend a year or two, sometimes three years of your life, making a movie, you know, it feels like you want to do something that has some value and something else behind it other than passing the time, especially in a negative way. Now, Tyler, you, you're, first of all, very little about you guys on the internet. Hard to do research. Neither of us are, we don't do social media. So I'm very happy this podcast would be part of your SEO or at least get it started.

But I will say, your background's very interesting. because I would say that you came from more traditional Hollywood. You've produced some Martin Scorsese films. Yeah, originally not how I fell into the industry a bit. Mainly I was working in private equity doing international investments. I lived almost a decade in Beijing, China. And my wife and I went backpacking around the world, quit our jobs. And while we were backpacking one of the investors in our fund in Africa that we had set up,

called me up and said, hey, would you ever think about moving to L.A. figuring out how to invest in films for me. And at the time, I said, that's a really random thing. But I had always loved film. I'd always love storytelling in general. And I said, maybe I'll think about that. We came back to be with my sister for her wedding before going back out to Africa.

And while we're at my parents' house in the basement with no job, having spent a ton of money backpacking around the world, my wife comes up with a pregnancy test and says, hey, I'm pregnant. So I immediately called that guy back. And I said, hey, what was that thing about film? again. And that led to what I thought would just be a couple of years in entertainment, and now it's been over a decade. And I think what we were trying to do at the time was really

hitting the space that 25, 21 is in, which is how do we make first and foremost good stories that espouse things that are good, true, and beautiful, that aren't necessarily faith-based stories, but they're for the masses from a worldview that a Christian can support, which I was always on board with. And I think at least the kinds of films that I like, I think faith-based films have a place, but they're not really the ones that I love watching. And they're not ones that, I think, have much of a message outside of the choir. I think they're really helpful in certain situations, and I'm fully supportive of them, but I think really looking and saying, how do we reach a mass audience and get people questioning stuff, get people thinking about

their lives, get people thinking about values that we care about. And that's where I entered the space and, yeah, worked one of my first projects was a Martin Scorsese film called Silence. Very difficult film to produce. I didn't know anything about producing a film at the time. And it kind of... You were just faking it, fake it so you make it? Very much so. I think that's most of Hollywood, though. It's got to be most of Hollywood. And it was learning, and thankfully, it was learning from the best in the industry, which was a wonderful. wonderful and very expensive education, but I think the figuring out and seeing how things were done there was definitely instrumental in paving away for how to do things moving forward. What year was this?

This was 2014. Okay. So you were in private equity prior to that. Prior to 2013. Okay. Wow. So what's interesting to me is, and I want to get into this in more depth later, but when the guy calls you when you're in Africa and says you want to get in the movie business, you're a private equity guy.

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your purchase of $150 or more. Again, that's R-O-L-L-E-R-A-B-B-I-T dot com code Danny for 20% off your order. Terms and exclusions apply. Go check them out. You're going to fall in love, I promise. Yeah. Well, it's interesting because the first time I moved down to L.A. I spent about five months doing nothing but talking to people. Just trying to understand what is this industry, who are the players, what are people's experiences? And after five months, I came back to him and I said, I don't know if this is a good industry to invest in because I've been hearing a lot of horror stories.

And the reality is, it is a tough industry. There's a lot of reasons for people being in the industry that are not financial. And therefore, the way that the industry is buoyed has some pretty crazy. market dynamics that wouldn't fly in any other oil and gas or real estate industry because people aren't attracted to those industries for the same reasons that they are Hollywood. So it creates a really difficult landscape to navigate. And I think that turns off a lot of people. But for me, having come from emerging markets in Mongolia and North Korea and China and Ethiopia,

I think I needed all of that experience from these crazy markets to be able to look at Hollywood and say, this is just another place that's kind of crazy. figure it out. Did you say North Korea? I did say North Korea. Wow. We did some stuff. Have you been? I did a couple times. What's it like? Interesting place. I mean, that's a, that's a bit of a tangent. Yeah, it was, it was, I went, I think the last time I was there was 2009. So it was a while ago. That's crazy. You and Dennis Rodman. But it was a, it was a fun, fun place to go in your late 20s to just kind of be on the frontier markets. So when you were in, um, coming up in this industry, prior to 2521.

Did you flow through any of the more traditional studios, Warner Brothers, you know, any of those? We did. Silence was with Paramount. Okay. So we got, it was independently financed and produced, but it was distributed by Paramount. So I'm just trying to understand the picture. So you're working for the investor and then the investor invest independently funding the Paramount production.

It was actually our production. So Paramount, Paramount was a distribution. distributor, which is really, that's what you see as a consumer, as you see the distributor that's taking it out to theaters, doing all the marketing, everything else. Sometimes Paramount will, as the studio, make the film themselves, we actually made the film and delivered it to Paramount. So is that how the, the system works? I think this is interesting to people is that you can independently finance a film, you can independently produce a film. And then I know that there's like Sundance and there's all these film festivals. Is that when you were. trying to sell it to a distributor, which are the names that we know, Paramount, Miramax, all those, right? Yeah, it can be both. I'd say primarily, yes. You make a film, it's done, you bring it to a festival that you're looking to sell it to

a distributor. There's many times where a distributor will make a film and they'll put it in a festival more for publicity and marketing than anything else. But yeah, most of the festivals are both to compete with other films and as a market to buy and sell films that are coming out. And I think, you know, to dovetel on what he just said, about it being a difficult business. And it is a film like silence is a great example of how,

regardless of how difficult it is, regardless of the financial path that a movie like that might take, that movie is going to be around for many, many, many years. It's Martin Scorsese movie. It's a great movie. I'm actually, it's on my list to show my kids a film movie night pretty soon. and there'll be 100 years now people will be watching silence.

If you want to make a lot of money, you should be in oil or building apartment buildings or something like that. And that's fine. I know people would do that. But if you want to make an impact that lasts long time in a certain way on a person emotionally, you know,

give people a memory in their life that's important to them, you know, or a marker intellectually or something like that, there's no better business than this. And to do that. So it's worth the, the Sturm and Drang and the difficulty that it takes to get to mouth these productions and get them out there because it makes a big difference of people. What feels a little bit divine about y'all's story for 2521 is the team that came together on it, right?

And so, you know, now that I kind of understand both of your backgrounds, I'd love to know how you guys merged, right? So how did 2521 come together with your vision of telling, I would say, values-based stories and your business? background. How did all this emerge together? Well, we had, I met around the time I was getting offers like Call a Booty. I met, uh, Tyler's like, that's my guy. I read the, that's my director. You didn't tell you I was the one that gave him. That's right.

I won him. You remember I said about movies at last? There you go. I met our co-founder who, you know, had a heart for moving the culture and, and doing something positive based on some of the things he was seeing coming out of Hollywood. And we met right around the time

Grater had come out and it just seemed like it was a meant to be thing. And he's been extraordinary in terms of coming from zero and learning the business to a very high level, very aggressively, which he's done in just a few years. And then along the way, Chris Hammond,

one of our producers and president of the company, he had helped distribute. he had distributed actually through Hammond Entertainment my film greater which I just talked about right and so you know Chris filled a certain hole that was you know that we needed uh expertise like his and there really isn't he had a studio background distribution background financing background and then uh we met Tyler through a well Tyler do you want to and we met we met in Stanford Kentucky that's right that's right this little tiny town uh that I didn't even know there was a Stanford you can yeah yeah

beautiful town. He was riding a horse when I met him. This sounds pretty romantic and a vibe. One of my best memories of my life. Yeah, we were at a small little gathering of like-minded folks and really hit it off. And I think what 2521 uniquely has is really a whole bunch of different facets. I am a business finance guy. I care about story.

I care about making sure that we have good films. But really where my creativity comes out, is how do we structure things and make things work? David does, from a script, from directing, from just the creative perspective, has that on lock. We have a fund that actually can finance things that we do or finance other people's work. We have Chris, who has a background in production

and in distribution. And all of those elements, many production companies have one or two. Having those all together is really where I think it made sense to all come together because we have the ability to from soup to nuts either do our own projects, work on other people's,

and it's a really good a good meeting of skill sets and background and experience and we all really like each other too, which is good. Yeah, we have a very, you know, simpatico worldview and things that we're interested in

things like that, but also just overall, we really do love movies and believe in the impact they can make on people and the relational aspects of movies. I mean, I spent several years when I decided to really jump in and become a filmmaker, really several years going through movies, say like Ghostbusters or movies that I really liked

that I knew were great movies and one way or another, and I would pull them apart over weeks, so I would watch it scene by scene. I would write down every scene, what happened in it. I would turn the sound off, watch it again with no sound to see what the visuals were doing. I would turn the visuals.

I wouldn't look at the visuals, and I would watch the sound and just hear what that was doing. And I made all these notes for dozens of movies like this, The Godfather, everything, really studying what worked and what doesn't work and all that. And, you know, that's a level of detail I have on the creative part, but these guys have the same level of detail.

So, like, the co-founder I mentioned, for instance, I've never seen a person jump in with two feet the way he has and really roll up the sleeves and learn a business from zero to where he has now. And Tyler, obviously, his background, like he said, he hit the ground running in five months and learned about from nothing to being on silence, so this is Martin's Percedes movie. And Chris is the same way. So there's just a lot of passion here for what we're doing, I think. And the mission or the problem that you're trying to solve the thesis of 25-21 that united all of you was what, simply put. We want to revitalize culture, American culture, through the power of mainstream entertainment.

And so here's my wife, who I've been married to for 23 years now. She was a film critic in college. We both love movies tremendously. It was a point that brought us to bring us together. And for many years, every single night, we put our kids to bed and watch a movie. We realized at one point, we never take our kids in the movies. And did we ever think when we met 2001 that, we would live a life where we hardly ever go to the movie theater.

And we don't. And we reflect on that. It's why aren't we doing that? It's not only because of the change in the industry in terms of a lot of, there's big companies out there that we all know that have kind of changed their model from one of, worry about entertaining a family and doing it with positive values, things like that,

to really waving a finger in your face about wanting you to vote a certain way. or being political or things like that. But it wasn't just the sucker punch we were always waiting for. It's also what's out there. It's just not something that we felt is something worth spending our time on, a lot of times. And so Hollywood used to be the world leader in entertainment, obviously film entertainment,

and used to be very good at these mass market big, great movies. And there's just not quite there anymore. So we want to solve that problem both from a content perspective, but also from a quality perspective of the kind of things. So to give an example, Lord of the Rings, it's a great movie. We actually watched a clip of that recently. I'm actually learning Japanese right now, and someone sent me a clip of Lord of the Rings and Japanese,

which was interesting. So we watched this little clip. My family and I have, I think it's Return of the King. They come upon, you know, Minas Tirith and all the orcs are out there, and King Theodon gives a speech about, you know, they're about to go into battle. It's a very noble, very stirring thing. I was like, you don't see that. You don't feel that that often anymore in movies.

You know, you feel melancholy or you feel, you know, are we raising Aragorns and E. Owens? And what would they be watching if we were worried about that? They would be watching things like that. So I'm tracking and you brought up a lot of things I want to talk about. So the first thing I think where we should start is I'm bought into the thesis that culture reflects the media that we consume. So we're in social media. I think we've learned a lot about that just even as we've had kids. We're very cognizant of what we try and put out and we see other people in our industry, the influencer space.

And there's such a response to following someone else's life, you know, that if we live our life, one way, we could influence people to follow us there if we live our life another way. And so media equals culture. And so I think that that's the thesis, the, the base level thesis of 2521 is we want to revitalize culture by first changing the media. I want to talk first about how we got here from y'all's point of view. So you followed Hollywood. You were technically in Hollywood. There's a lot of people that I would think in the Midwest or who are not familiar with the Hollywood system, there's a variety of different conspiracy theories out there. It's run by the Illuminati. The CIA is pushing these messages through the Hollywood system. We can talk about any of

those if you have any insight information on them. But I would love y'all's point of view of how we kind of got here in the Hollywood system. Is there a more broad macro level pulling of the strings to lead culture in this way through media? Or is it a product of we, lost our way as individuals and our us as lost individuals are the ones producing this media and creating more lost individuals there's no conspiracy i'll tell you that oh come on i don't want to dash water on you know Tyler yeah i didn't hear you say there's no conspiracy one thing about us here at de-influences danny and i love our morning coffee it is truly the best part of our days but recently we found that our morning treat might actually be doing more harm than good luckily we found out

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Yeah, coming from North Korea, I gave in and infiltrated. I think it's deeper. There's a series called Civilization is one of the, probably the first, what they call the modern documentary by Kenneth Clark in the 1960s, BBC. Really great series. In civilization, Clark goes around to different periods in time, Florence, you know, Jerusalem, other places, Rome. And he has this thesis of where their art flourished.

And the art and architecture has had a reflection of the state of the health of your civilization. Over and over, as he points out the decline in these places, he says something like, but they lost confidence in themselves as a civilization. So he'll hold up a Roman coin from the first century. And you can see how much better made it is than one from the fourth century. country, things like that. I mean, I ask you, you're aware, say some of our monuments, our national monuments, like the Lincoln Memorial,

the Jefferson Memorial, these are very inspiring things, right? What modern monuments have been erected that match those? There are some, again, I won't name them, because I don't want to impugn the artists, but there are some very important monuments, some very important people that have come up recently that are nowhere near the level of quality and inspiration. In fact, I think our president now,

has tried to, you know, enact an executive order to get people to try to go under the older style. But whether that's wise or not, that's not my point. It's just everyone's detecting the difference to the point that even the president is trying to make an executive order to correct it. So I think... Because the point, sorry to cut you off, the point you're making is that our art reflects kind of the state of the culture. Right. And you're not going to, I'm not a dooming gloom person.

In a lot of ways, we live in a golden age. So a lot of people will come on a podcast like this, and they want to sell you something, and they're going to tell you that everything's terrible, that, you know, the world's, you know, going bad and the only way to fix it is whatever they're selling. I'm not going to do that. We live in a golden age in so many ways. We have a fantasy level of material wealth for almost every other person in history that saw how we lived.

They wouldn't believe it. Health care is better. Natural disasters and their impact are on the decline. They really are in terms of how they impact people. Poverty worldwide has gone down in the last 30 years from about 42% to about 8%. So everything is getting better materially. Culturally, we're on a slide. And I think everybody detects that everyone feels that.

And mentioning one of our projects we're about to do, for instance, Young Washington, when a culture, a civilization is the stories they tell themselves. That is what identifies in Marx. Entire civilizations are built on that from ancient Greece through the epics of Homer on. And we had our own American story, our origin story. It's who you are. It's what you mean where you came from. And when you lose those stories, when you forget who you are,

forget the story of who you are as a people, you're not a civilization anymore. You're just a group of people that live inside a border, fighting over politics and fighting over petty things. And so when a culture loses its cultural memory, civilization loses cultural memory, loses its stories, it's like a person who loses his memory. They fade away.

My father recently, I had that happen to him. He just died of Alzheimer's recently, and I saw that fade. Our culture is similar to that. We're losing, we're forgetting the stories of who we are where we came from. And that's one thing, again, you have to try to, we're a part of a young Washington project.

Do you want to tell them a little bit about the Genesis step? Yeah, I think it's, I think we're looking, you, going back to your original question, I think the decline that many people are feeling comes from a couple of places. One is just the way that people consume stuff. Before you would go to the theater or you would have it streamed on your TV,

or whatever air waves on your TV. That's it. And then you had a DVD. And then you started, I mean, streaming really revolutionized things where people are consuming it. And because of the democratization of how people are consuming things, the channels of reaching certain people have dramatically shifted. You had to go see whatever was in the theater because that was the only thing to see or you had to watch whatever was on channel 4 because that was what was on.

And so there was an ability to. to have some confidence in what you're making because you know that even if it's not the greatest, people will watch it because they had no other choice. And in fact, there's a lot of films that I grew up with that I love. And I go back and watch them. I'm like, they're really not that good.

Right. But you watch them and you love them because of certain aspects and because everyone's watching them. I think what has changed dramatically is now you can reach certain people, which is great. If you have make a movie for the right budget, there's no better time in history in terms of the technology,

people's ability to tell stories to two audiences. You couldn't do that 20, 30 years ago. You didn't have the equipment. You didn't have the ability to reach those people. You can now. I think the problem is that that creates a proliferation of stories and proliferation of films and television shows and creates a whole lot of inertia when it comes to people's decision-making

on what to watch because there's so much out there. And now it's a much more risky place because the audience is not unified. There's all these little segments of audiences and they're trying to reach all of them. So now from a business perspective, which Hollywood is, they're trying to check boxes of, okay, how do we reach this audience? How do we reach this audience? And it dilutes what is the core of what makes a story. A story is the story's got to be good. You can't tailor it to an audience.

You've got to make a story maybe with an audience in mind but be true to the story. And that's where I think things have fallen off because they're trying to make too much for too many people and missing it. And that's where you get into reboots and you get into IPs or needing to have some named IP because there's so much choice out there. People need a shiny object to attach. I'm sure you guys look on your Netflix screen or whatever else, there's a million different bubbles. What is it that's going to make you pick one bubble over the other? It's an actor that you know. It's a story that you've heard of or it's a book that you read at one point in time.

Also, When you're spending $200 million to make and market a movie or more now, maybe some 350 million and some big movies, you're not going to take any risks with your story. You're not going to be daring. I mean, you can't really be. There's too much money at stake. Yeah, I think what's confusing for me is someone who does like,

we were actually talking about this on the last episode of the podcast is like Netflix is feeding me this top 10. and it's like, now you see me, now you see me too. And I'm like, I know that movie bombed in theaters. And so I think that the business model of the film industry is kind of racing itself to the bottom. In their mind, I understand what your argument is, is like, hey, let's mitigate our risk on this investment by producing or making the accountant too. No one asked for that. They think they're mitigating the risk, but I think over.

time, it's just like, okay, so now we're on accountant five, right? And so the lack of, there's kind of a lack of originality or that kind of golden era of movies. And I don't even think that, you know, A-list actors have much pool now because there's so much content, right? So the whole, this is what I wanted to talk about. The whole business is shifting, right? And it sounds like what your argument is, is that that business shifting is both what's creating the decline in the movie business, but also the greatest opportunity for you guys to step in and say, hey, let's stick to originality. Let's stick to core new stories. And let's take risk on these things, right? Well, there's an intentionality from a cultural standpoint. I mean,

he's right, again, as the business guy, he's right on many of these things you said in terms of the environment that you used to be able to shoot a movie for 80 days instead of like 30. You have to shoot it now because it's just the financial. And when you shoot a movie, in less than half the time, that's going to be a difference and what you can produce. So that is all there. But we also, again, back to,

you know, not to be so negative, we do, in the golden age in which we live, you know, we're the first humans in history that have essentially the wealth of human imagination for all time available to us at our fingertips.

In the past, you might have to wait and just see whatever traveling troop happens to come through your town on a muddy wagon or whatever else before you knew what you're going to see. You never knew what you're going to be given, if anything at all. And all of a sudden we find a situation where you can turn on many different streaming platforms or other things and order up what you want. And it can be the best and greatest things that the best minds, the best artists, best storytellers have ever done. And so there's an intentionality now that we have available. And this is what you guys do. I think, you know, in your

podcast, which is fairly new. We're talking a lot about how to raise children, how to live a best life. We're sharing things with each other. What makes your life better? This is a new thing that we get to do now through these platforms. And I think it does make our lives better, that intentionality. Well, it should go along with this as well. When we have such a large portion of our lives devoted to screens, we ought to be more intentional about what we're feeding our souls, what we're feeding our minds. And there's so much better things available to us now. But the great news is it's there. We just need to know how to get to it. So it's people like us making movies that we want to create these things that are more original that feed the soul in a good way, but also help, you know,

start a community, curate, help you find the things that even that we don't make that are great that other people have made it will make. I think it's also a process of getting the message out there that the stories we tell each other really matter. I don't think there is, I would think that as you think about Jordan your life and who you are from an identity perspective, there's probably five or six stories that you have told yourself from experiences

that you've had in your life that are like so core to who you are. And when we talk about, if you talk about any world leader, you talk about any movement shake or anything, they are stories. storytellers, first and foremost, we communicate, we learn through stories. And I think that part of the culture has been lost.

It's just a story. It's just or whatever else. I think that is part of what the decline is, is that the respect and the awe of what it means to tell stories has died a little bit. And I think if anyone's listening to this, to understand whether it's raising kids, whether it's telling yourself, discovering your own identity, stories matter. And even from a meta perspective, when we were talking about, coming on here. We were talking with one of our advisors who does a lot of social media stuff.

And he said, well, think about six, five or six stories that you can bring on to here to talk about story. Because literally what matters, what people, no one's going to remember what I say about the dynamics of studios or anything else. If anything in a week or two, they're going to remember some story that I told. And if you're in a, if you're in a church audience, you're probably just going to remember a story that a pastor told or you're in a you know some whether it's a presidential speech or otherwise they tell stories often because that's what people remember and so I think it's really important both understanding the gravitas of what storytelling is and the importance it is in culture but people also to appreciate and revere the the medium in and of itself when it comes

to raising kids when it comes to what it means to shape culture and again like you said before Jesus, you know, largely preach through stories for a reason. And so you're connecting where your treasure is, your heart will be also, right? So what more treasure can you describe than spending your only real non-renewable resource, your time on? And when you're talking about over a third of your life on screens, that's your treasure, obviously. And so what are we doing with that? You know, in the Bible, depending on the translation, it's whatever's good, whatever's true, whatever's, you know, noble. Think about these things. Are we doing? that, you know. And so again, when we have the opportunity to connect people, you know, with our

children, you're connecting, that storyteller is connecting to your child's mind, to your mind. What mind are you connecting with? What mind is passing information or about how to live life, about what's important about what's not important? You do have the opportunity to connect them with minds that you trust, that, you know, some of the greatest minds of all time right now. And so, you know, again, there's a problem, but there's also a great opportunity. here to be better. And so there's also a great relational aspect of stories. We, movies and television, we watch them together. That's a communal experience. Certainly going to a theater is, I mean, you've probably been to a theater and felt an entire audience laughing at the

same thing and what that feels like. Can't really get that at home. But even at home, you know, when you're on screens and you're on social media or something like that, even though nominally you're supposedly talking to other people out there. It's a pretty isolated experience. This is where a lot of mental health issues, I think you guys talked to Jonathan Haidt, if I remember. Oh, no, I just love him. Okay, okay.

If you know him, get him on this pot. Okay. But at any rate, you know, Heights's thesis about your anxiety and all of that, right? And so these things are, they're not really connecting you to other people. Sure. The illusion of it and also other people's illusions

in terms of what they're presenting to you, which aren't real a lot of times, causing mental health issues. But when you watch something with somebody, it's a very communal. Like we have family movie night every week with my fans and one of the highlights of our week. And we share these things together

and we laugh at the same things and we talk about what we've seen. And, you know, it's an extremely, you know, communal event. I remember my father who just passed only a couple months ago from Alzheimer's. I had two knee surgeries from football. And my first surgery, he took me the night before to a theater to go see Forrest Gump,

which is coming out that night. So this is 1994. And, you know, just me and him. And there was something about that experience with my father. That was a big, big movie. That was a huge, huge hit at the time. And the theater was totally full. It was kind of unlike anything you'd seen at the time, that movie.

And it hit me in such a way. And I remember talking to my dad about that movie on the car ride home with him. and there was just something that moved in my spirit. I was like, this is for my dad and I. And I'm not going to watch this movie again, the rest of my life until he's gone if I don't watch it with him. And so all of this time passed. Anytime someone was watching Forest Cup, I wouldn't watch it.

I would leave the room. And again, I can't really explain why. He passed, and I finally showed it to my family for Family Movie Night for the second time of my life. And, you know, I remember that so well. If we hadn't gone to the movies that night together, whatever happened that day before my surgery would have just been chewed up in the blur of days that gone by.

I wouldn't remember it at all, most likely. Now I have that memory of going to something and sharing something with my dad. This is what movies do, and all of us have stories like that. I'm bought in. I'm an investor, or I will be. I'll be invited.

No, love the thesis. My question for you is on the tactics now. So I think there's, And again, I think that social media typically kind of creates boogeymen, if you will. So it's like, you know, Hollywood. Hollywood's not a collection of people in most people's minds. It's an entity, right? So it's like Hollywood doesn't want you guys to come in, doesn't want 25, 21 entertainment to come in.

Bought into the thesis that to change culture, you change the media, have you guys experienced any, is it tailwinds or headwinds going into the studio system of people not wanting these stories to be told. I'll dispel a little bit of that conspiracy theory in that I think the, I think the studio, Hollywood, if you, whatever you want to call Hollywood, quote unquote, they're made up of people that want to make money. And they don't care what they, what gets made. If you want to come and bring a Jesus movie to Hollywood, great. Hey, remember the passion?

Great. Let's do that. You want to bring a movie about whatever super progressive thing that you want to bring? Great. Let's do that. You want to bring something about some super conservative thing? Great. Let's do that.

As long as there's an audience and it makes money, I don't think people really at the end of the day cares. Which is what I think is one of the greatest findings of this podcast because I think a lot of people think someone or something is the puppet master pushing these messages on us. But I think the point that you made, David, is that the media we're making is not, it's not creating the culture. It's a reflection of the culture inside, right? So it's the creators making these not necessarily the other way around. I think that that's one of the biggest inside. The art your civilization produces is the soul of that civilization. Yes. And so the health of the soul is seen through the quality of the art,

in my opinion. And so that that's what you're seeing. I agree with what Tyler is saying in terms of there isn't some top-down conspiracy. People, Hollywood's religion is money. And so if you have something that's going to make them a lot of money, they're going to bow at your altar. So has that been actually helpful for you all in speaking to a new audience coming into the system? I do think, I will say the one thing that messes with things is because of the corporatization of Hollywood in general. And that's not a recent event. That's happened over many, many years.

When I was talking about the box checking, that's really where things do get messed up. Because they want, I'll give you an example. I was reading a script of a film that we did, not with 2521. This is before that. And I'm reading this script and there is a black, gay, female sheriff. That's one of the main characters. And I'm reading the script and it's in the small town and the way that they're talking. I literally call the creative executive on it.

And I say, hey, did this character used to be a white guy? And he said, yeah, yeah, we had to change it because, you know, we had to make sure that it was a more diverse thing. But they didn't change the story. Great. If there's a black, gay female sheriff that makes sense for a story and it works with the story, okay. But this was literally just taking out this white male sheriff, putting in a black gay female sheriff and then just leaving it like that. It made no sense for the story. it was not good for the story.

And that you can contrast that with something like Philadelphia with Tom Hanks. That was a story about a guy with AIDS. And it was a deeply moving story because it highlighted something that was natural to what the story was. And so I think that's where Hollywood has lost its way in a lot of ways is checking a box when it comes to a story is a really bad idea. And I think that's a shade to what we said about. there isn't a conspiracy. They're not going to lock you out. That's true.

But they are also made up of individuals who have a political point of view. And you may have noticed in the last 20 years or so, political points of view are quite passionately held by people on all sides of the spectrum. Well, yeah, it's kind of what's, I mean, right. Like, I mean, there is a large swath of parents who are very frustrated about Disney. They're like, hey, just give us Lion King. Like, what are we doing here? Why are these messages now becoming political? There's a relational aspect to Hollywood that's very important.

And, you know, you're showing off your friends in a sense. And so if you go on and you make something, you want to be at the party and be able to tell someone I put this character in, you know, for diversity's sake or whatever. And there are, there is famously, I think Hollywood was the industry that created a blacklist in the 50s in terms of, of, you know, this wasn't a government thing. Hollywood did that in response to pressure from the government. There's more, there's somewhat of a soft blacklist now in the sense, again,

they're not going to say, freeze this person out because they're a traditional, have a traditional viewpoint. But they're not attracted to people like that. They don't want to, they don't, they're not attracted to such stories. They don't understand such stories. And they, you know, there are some people who've had who suffered because they're vocal, politically vocal, and people don't want to work with them as much. That, that does happen. Right. Certainly that happens. But it's more of an overall systemic thing, which is they just don't understand these kind of stories because that's not most of the people who comprise Hollywood is a worldview.

Yeah. Well, I mean, it's the coastal to the Midwest problem where it's like we're just not talking to each other. So there's just a general lack of understanding of the customer. You have two cities making the media for the entire country. Correct. And so we need someone that reflects more of what the country looks like. So my question is, has that been a, hindrance or an opportunity for you all?

I think it's an opportunity because at the end of the day, I think what Hall, even with some major kind of outlying hits like Sound of Freedom, which we were involved with as well, and stuff that Angel Studios is doing, Hollywood's looking at it saying, hey, there's this market that we don't really understand. Right.

Both because they haven't taken the time to understand it the same way, but also because they're run by coastal people on coastal audiences, and there's this giant middle space of people that aren't necessarily interested in all the stories that they're telling. And they're trying to find people that are telling these stories for this audience. And frankly, I think it's not just, hey, how do you tell these stories for this audience, but how do you tell stories for this principal audience that break out to all audiences? I would say one great example of that is Yellowstone.

Yellowstone being something that was looked on for a lot of its run as being more, of a traditional kind of oriented show for certain people, massive hit. And then that's expanded to several other shows that have come off of it. It's like they know there's an audience out there that they haven't known how to talk to very well. Right. And there are some people that have come along and have found a way to talk to that audience. So precedent is starting to pop up.

And if you guys fast forward 10, 15 years down the road, my question is, do you guys believe that there will be two Hollywoods? there will be the Midwest Hollywood and then there will be the coastal Hollywood or do you think that and this is very glass-half-full-thinking. John Edwards, two Americas. This is very glass-houtful thinking. Or by the coastal Hollywood, understanding that there's a large swath of America that wants to be spoken to and wants media created to them that we will see one Hollywood that is just

better at creating media that brings us together versus dividing. I think although this is something I for many years hoped that we could avoid, which was a split like this, and I still do, because I don't think that's good for the country. I think an artistic conversation is good for people, meaning it's never good to live in a bubble. You want people pushing back on you about things that you believe, just like I do. It's never good for everyone to agree with everything you say, right? And so a great example of that would be High Noon, which we would. you have an involvement in as a potential project as well,

old classic Western. That was made by Stanley Kramer and Fred Zinemann, and it was supposedly related to the Hollywood Blacklist as a message about what that meant and had a political tent to it. Great movie. A fantastic movie. But John Wayne and Howard Hawks,

who was a great director, directed Wayne in many movies. They hated Hineo. And in fact, were very critical of it, and then they made Rio Bravo, in response to High Noon. Well, guess what? Real Bravo was a great movie, too. So now, because of that artistic conversation,

you got High Noon and you got Rio Bravo, two great movies by great artists in response to each other in the culture. That's a healthy culture. And Hollywood used to be much more ideologically balanced like that. Now, with the same way he spoke about and what they used to call in cable demassification, So we went from everybody having the same three networks on television, essentially, when Seinfeld was, you know, went off the air.

The last episode, it had something like, like, what, 50 million people watching it or something like that. That world doesn't exist anymore because there's so many more avenues of things to watch. You know, so many more channels to get your attention. And so as that happens, we have tribalized and we don't talk to each other so much anymore. And so I think to your point there. this split is culturally almost inevitable. I don't think it's that healthy. And I think it's important for us to always consider the other side

and consider works that come from the other side. And I hope that's still what happens, but I'm not very, you know, saying one of the way, and this is like silly, but one of the ways, what I've noticed about the Chosen or House of David or many of these projects is it's a very distinct cast because most of these are not recognizable

characters or actors, right? And I've always wondered, first of all, these are hits. These are all great productions. And so it's kind of creating a new cast, right, of people. But even in Sound of Freedom, we picked Jesus through the passion to play. So you get what I'm saying.

Like that's what I mean by Midwest Hollywood. Sure. Is like if you're speaking to this Christian audience, there's like an approved Christian list of actors. One way of preventing the two Hollywoods, right, is a blending of actors. directors, writers, and bringing them in to learn how to speak to and to start to speak to these audiences. And so I've always wondered, you know, on the chosen House of David, did you

all have trouble getting Hollywood, coastal Hollywood actors into these productions? Yeah, they do have problems because it's, I mean, even there was a big snafu online of on the chosen, there was a, I know Dallas who makes it, there was a cameraman who had a rainbow flag on his camera that was taken, a picture was taken on set of this guy, right? And everyone's going up in arms. Oh, how can you have this on the? The Christians.

Yeah, the Christians are chirping. And you're sitting there saying for the same reason that, you know, you're looking, saying, who's the best person for the job? I would think as Christians, we'd want to. to say, hey, how do we get as many people in this atmosphere in this ecosystem as we can? Yep. And show them a positive experience in this whole thing. The camera guy isn't the guy that's influencing the story in some way that's going to be nefarious or anything.

He's a good cameraman, you know, shooting a good film. And I think the, or shooting a good show. And I think there's a lot of the, well, we, and it goes both ways. It's not just, it's not just one way. And I think looking and saying, is there a place where we can. say we are a meritocracy. If someone's good, they're going to be a part of it. And that stories at the end of the day, and this is what I was getting back, or what I want to get back to when you're asking about Disney, is I think one of the reasons that story quality has declined is

that there's a difference between preaching and storytelling. And that's preaching from progressive ideals to preaching Christian ideals, that preaching and storytellings aren't really sympathico when it comes to lasting cultural impact. And for the same reasons you say, hey, here's a Disney story. And it's not just telling me a story anymore. It's preaching me some kind of value system that I have to take. And in the same way that it doesn't really work very well for these faith-based films to preach something to someone, I think what we find is that the best stories are stories

that don't necessarily try and preach answers, they ask questions. because questions are universal, questions anyone can take and start a journey by just looking up and saying, oh, I wonder what I think about that. That's why Jesus, he told stories and then asked questions about the stories and just left people. He didn't say, this is it. He didn't explain the stories to a lot of people. He explained them later to his disciples, some of them.

Yeah, look at the Good Samaritan. Here's a story. Who's the best neighbor? Mic drop. That's it. You know, I will say this is one reason that our company. is not concentrating on explicit faith-based films so much. And it's not because we have any negative thoughts about this.

In fact, I know people I believe are still married because of fireproof. So, I mean, I cannot come out and say anything against a movie like that that has that kind of effect on people. And so those things are important. It's important the term preaching to the choir, which a lot of faith-based films are, okay, we go to church to be preached to for a reason. There's a great importance to that encouragement, building each other up, things like that.

But there's also this middle space of movies that, you know, don't exist anymore that used to exist. It's a Wonderful Life being an example. That had, you know, very traditional elements in it, even spiritual elements, but were very aimed at a wider culture. That's what we'd like to make. We want to make movies like Rocky.

It's a wonderful life. things like that. Movies that put a stone in your shoe. Just throw a Brad Pitt in there. The Midwest moms will love him. I tell you, like, yes. It'll turn around his brand, trust me. And this is, you know, this is another thing that stories do is, you know, when we talk about the vital importance of stories and everything else, I mean, just

personally, I, during the pandemic, I looked around and I saw everyone gaining weight. You know, everyone's like, oh, yeah, there was an average, something like 20 pounds or whatever, some crazy thing that people had gained. I started losing weight. and I ended up losing, you know, 140 pounds. Congrats. Yeah. And so, and I've kept it off and everything.

Well, guess what helped me do that? I mean, really, I mean, obviously prayer, you know, encouragement from my wife. He's like, rocky three. Yeah. Hey, I'm telling you, I'm dead serious. That's awesome. Because it's like you, you have these stories that I've been told my whole life.

And I, you have, so I owe God. I owe myself in a sense of keeping at it and everything else. But I owe Sylvester Stallone. I owe Bill Conti, who did the score, going to fly now, and things like that, the editors. I owe all those people because they gave me categories of thought. They showed me what it felt like to achieve a long process

of getting in shape in a few minutes. And they gave me that feeling and implanted it into my heart. And so I guarantee you there was times when I was trying to push through that I thought about those movies. I thought about that feeling that I was chasing. and and I bet Sylvester Stallone has melted more pounds off of people, you know, in the year since that movie than any other person involved in fitness because of the impact of that. That's story on culture. You know, so that's a direct impact on me.

And there's many other, you know, examples, I'm sure, in your own life and stuff where stories have affected you that way. And you can, you can have a message preached about no greater love than this than that who lays down his life. Yeah. Or you can watch Braveheart. And both are important, but you can look and say, you can either sit there and say from a worldview perspective from a Christian, well, Braveheart has a topless nudity in it and it has some graphic violence. Yes, it does. Is it relevant to the story? Yes.

And it's not gratuitous in nature. And the impact that watching Braveheart, which everyone is going to watch, even someone that's very church going, whatever, is going to watch that anyway. is looking and saying, how do we actually tell each other's stories that actually preach the values and the worldview that we're looking for? I hope that Dallas Jenkins and 2521 Entertainment can ignore that class of Christians that are calling out the guy with the rainbow flag on his. If he's a good cinematographer, let him play. There's a, we see this in social media a lot. We always say that we're so glad that, I mean, we are, we are influencers that are Christians, but we are so good. glad that we didn't get lumped into those Christian influencer buckets because their,

their hate is next level. I mean, they, they just can't do anything because there's a class of Christians that basically expect perfection. Yeah. And they will criticize anything that is not perfection when that's not real life, right? So it's the same class of Christian that says, 25, 21 entertainment. How dare you show, so show a shoulder from a spaghetti strap or something like that. I hope that that can be all ignored because I think the greater good is.

the blending of the Hollywood system into good quality content that speaks to the entire country, not just a coast. There is a strain of people that has a pretty narrow view on what counts as entertainment that feeds your soul, and it might be, you know, again, any variation in any move off the reservation at all, you know, counts as a strike. And actually, there's only one strike and you're out. There's not three even. And so this is not our view.

I think you're talking to a wider culture. And I also think that when we say the things we're saying, we're not only making films for, you know, that you can sit a seven-year-old in front. You know, we're also making films you cannot sit your seven-year-old, you know, your old in front of and watch in the sense that it's probably going to be above their level. We're making a couple of those right now probably, you know. And that's fine.

You know, we want to make movies again for all ages and, you know, then trust. the parents to have a good head on their shoulders about what is appropriate. But a 30-year-old needs to be fed just like a seven-year-old does. And you see certain things in films. Not every film has to have a gospel moment or all of that. And some films can have like Braveheart. Again, that's a film that had another dramatic effect on me growing up that he mentioned,

and I'm sure many people. And it did have those elements in there. but it was also true to the story. It was true. It wasn't gratuitous. And well, there's some violence in there. I mean, Mel is pretty hardcore in that. But again, fantastic movie.

I will say to Apocalyptic, a very extremely violent movie. One of the great movies ever that Mel Gibson directed as well. But these are movies steeped in a worldview that is very much different than a normal Hollywood experience and has a lot of value to it despite. tough elements in life. You read the Bible, there's all kinds of stuff in there. It's difficult. Well, we'll sort of wrap.

I want to leave you guys with just some encouragement. And then I want to do a rapid fire set of questions. And then we'll end. But I do want to say, on behalf of who I believe our audience to be, I think that there's a lot of momentum behind you guys. I think that there's a ton of parents in America. Coastal and Middle that are feeling that the media that we are being bombarded with is not good for our soul, right? Not all.

It's not a blanket statement, but I think that there is a thirst and a hunger for redeemable stories, values-based stories that are also not cookie cutter. Again, not knocking them fireproofs. And I think that you guys are trying to find a middle that I don't think Hollywood can figure it out. And I don't think fits into the fireproof bucket. And I'm really excited for you guys to pioneer that middle. And my hope, if you guys make this happen, is that it's blended with the existing Hollywood system. I think it would be a very, it would be a bummer for America and for Christians alike if we just created our own little Hollywood. I think that that is just more divisive.

So, you know, Jim Caviesel becomes the Brad Pitt of Christian Hollywood. You know, and so I, with whatever budget or funding you guys have, and I'm happy to throw in some chips, whatever budget or funding you guys have, I hope that you are able to convince some of these stars that we know to come be a part of the productions. And I think precedents like you brought up Yellowstone and all these are kind of playing a part in making that help. And Hollywood has done this in the past. Lord of the Rings, again, is a great example. That's a movie, Tolkien was a Catholic. Yeah.

And he, God is not really mentioned in the movie. Certainly, Jesus is not. But Christ is in every breath of that movie. For sure. And that there isn't more mainstream movie than that. I actually would argue, this is so random. I had a blog in college, and I actually had writers for this blog.

It was called Significance in Cinema. And the whole thesis of this blog was that every movie has the gospel in it. You just have to look at it through the right lens. So I would send these writers out. They would watch films. And then they would actually do like a gospel analysis of the films. And some of these films were Scorsese films.

It was anything that came out, right? And so anything, these films are reflections of people's different realities. Every reality has the gospel in it somewhere. You just have to look at it. 100%. So, okay. Rapid Fire questions. I already did the CIA one.

Have you guys ever met Terrence Malick? I've been in his office. What's he like? But I did not actually meet him. He's a strong believer, yes? Protaget. Yeah, very much so. Very strong believer.

I have not. I want to. I love his work. And he's one of the most philosophical, interesting filmmakers. I bet as a person, though, he's pretty down to earth and quirky. from what I understand he's a really good guy yeah it's a really good guy what are y'all's thoughts on

Darren Aronoski's Noah challenging are these one word response to rapid fires that's fine I think Darren Arnorski is a great filmmaker he's did you enjoy his take on Noah I wasn't a huge fan of his take on Noah

but he's definitely worth watching any film that comes out of his I'll go see what Hollywood actors are strong believers that we wouldn't know about that you wouldn't know about or that we would well we just did a we just did a film with Alan Richson who stars as Reacher Jack Reacher and he's pretty pretty outspoken at this point but I don't think a lot of people know that and he's I think

his star is rising significantly so that's that's one that I'm excited about in terms of his influence on things he swiped my answer so that one I think Tom Cruise is coming around. We're talking very broad tense. Rumors is he's leaving Scientology coming over to the... Really? Have you actually heard this?

No. Okay. I'm totally being so good. He's deep. He's very deep. That's it. That's the show, guys. Can I read you one thing real quick that I found, while I was thinking about this,

actually my wife sent it to me. It's from Charlotte Mason, who is, you know, relevant to a lot of our group and people. We're homeschoolers as well, my family. Oh, yeah. And so, sorry. Wait, sorry, who's Charlotte Mason? Charlotte Mason is, you know, was a educator from, you know, the late 1800s, early

1900s, who's very influential in homeschooling circles now. Oh, got it. And helped kind of spearhead and start, you know, a lot of that movement. But she said, imagination may become like that cave. Ezekiel tells of, wherein, we're all manner of unseemly and evil things. It may be a temple wherein self is glorified. It may be a chamber of horrors and dangers, but it may be a house beautiful.

It's enough for us to remember that imagination is stored with those images supplied day by day, whether by the cinema, the penny dreadful, by Homer or Shakespeare, by the great picture or the flaming shocker. So, you know, she recognized as well that the things we store up in ourselves in these Troves' imagination, again,

with this 35% of our waking hours that we look at screens has a dramatic impact on who we are. It's integral to who we become as people. And we have an opportunity to train up young people in a better world than we had, I think, with the choices that we give them. But it's also important for us. That's awesome. Yeah. I will say, too, the last thing, because he's talking about these sly things about Hollywood actors being in movies and everything,

I come to this podcast, this house, and this door open. and I see this movie store looking dude. Stop it. I was like, what are you doing this? Like, who's this handsome guy? Don't flatter me. No, I'm serious. Wait, this is recorded.

I'll show that to my wife. I'll show the clip to my wife. I don't think actors, I think actors in Hollywood, they're open. As long as they're not, they're not, I think they're cut off to inauthentic storytelling. And so they, there's really from a creative perspective, you have to be authentic. And if it's authentic and it's not their worldview, you, they're actors. They jump into roles. We're in the middle of a revival.

We're in a college campuses, revival. Hollywood, 2521, revival. It's revival times, maybe. Didn't have a problem getting people into silence. Yeah. So, you know, that's right. Doesn't hurt.

It's more. Thanks, guys. That was a really fun episode. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.