Dear Chelsea - A High Ratio of Predators with Katie Couric

Episode Date: March 9, 2023

Chelsea is joined by none other than Katie Couric to discuss falling in love again after loss, Katie’s cancer diagnosis, and how to survive a dinner almost entirely attended by sexual predators. Then: An oldest sister is unsure what to say as her younger sister nears the end of her life.  And a wife finds out that her addict husband has been having an affair with a younger woman. Books in this episode: Going There by Katie Couric Many Lives, Many Masters Letting Go It’s Called a Breakup Because it’s Broken  * Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail] * Produced by Catherine Law Edited & Engineered by Brandon Dickert * * * * * The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Tune in and join in the conversation. Listen to Decisions Decisions on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, Catherine. Oh, hi, Chelsea. Hi. Guess where it snowed 20 inches last night? Oh, my gosh. Was it in Whistler?

Mallorca. Oh, no. No. Are you serious? 20 inches last night. Oh my gosh, is it in Whistler? Mallorca. Oh no! No. Are you serious? 20 foot waves. They have, what are they called? Manholes? What are those called when the streets cave in?

Is that called a manhole? I mean, the island is not prepared for snow. Maybe in the mountains. 20 inches of snow. And so they told everyone to stay in. Don't go outside. It was on the Daily Mail. It popped up on my Instagram this morning.

And not that I read the Daily Mail because I don't. But we don't want to spread that. No, we don't. But Mallorca, I think, just comes to me, you know, since our phones are all eavesdropping on me. Can you believe that? It is snowing. I'm in Whistler right now and it is snowing. Well, it snowed last week in

Los Angeles in my backyard. So that's a whole other thing. The world is over, everyone. So we're just going to end this podcast right now because everyone should just take shelter. Goodbye. Hope you have enough Hamoniberico to get you through. Oh my God. That's insane. I know. And I've heard LA is just the worst right now. Oh my God. It's been like pouring rain. My puppies have been like trying to potty train them.

They're like, there's nowhere to go. It's flooded. So that's been interesting. I saw some kids surfing down the street in a Tupperware bucket the other day. There was like the rivers going down the street and the gutters. And then there was a kid pulling another kid on a mini bike

and the other kid was in like a Tupperware tub. And they were just like zooming down the street. So that's the state of affairs right now. Listen, if you can't have a little fun in a Tupperware tub, where can you find it? We went night skiing the other night. After my birthday, we all decided it was snowing, snowing. It snowed like 20 centimeters, whatever that means in America. And we were like all together.

We went to Apres and then everyone's like, let's go up to the top of the parking lots and have someone drop us off. And then we could just ski down at night because it was all fresh. And so like 10 of us did it. It was so much fun. Oh my God. There is nothing better than being in the snow at night. I don't know why. I know. It's so beautiful. It is the best. It is. Oh, my gosh. It's so beautiful. And I also had a great birthday this year again. I love celebrating my birthday in Whistler. It's got all my ingredients. Skiing, apres, skiing, margaritas, skiing, other margaritas.

Oh, and I had my niece Charlie up here, who is a dreamboat. She's such a cutie. She's ridiculous. She is just so cute and funny. And we skied. We had her charging by the end of the week. And she was here for like four days, but solo. And then my friend Nick, who is my director on Chelsea Does, she was my DP. She came up and it was just so fun. I love having one-on-one time with my nieces and nephews. It's the best. I got shut down by a niece this week.

Rejection from children is fierce. I know. Teenagers are trouble. Another reason not to have them, you know? Exactly. Exactly. It's like if they're tiny, they're pooping. If they're three, they're mean to you, right?

Terrible twos, terrible threes. And then they turn into teenagers immediately after that. But no one tells you they start smelling at like eight. Smelling? Yeah, they start smelling bad at like eight. Well, the boys. Oh, I don't know. Really?

Girls start smelling? Really? I think girls start getting stinky. Oh, oh. You're like, it's too early. It's a tricky situation. Speaking of smelly, I went three days without taking a shower and skiing while I was up here because we had such a full house and it was nonstop action. And finally, like yesterday or the

day before, everyone left and we went skiing again. I was like, okay. And then I was like, okay, guys, I'm going home after skiing today. Like no apres. Like I'm wrecked from my birthday. I'm so tired. My body's aching. We had a huge powder day. So my thighs were burning. And then of course, they persuaded me to go to APRE. Twist my arm. Cut to one in the morning. I'm getting dropped off at my house. And we had adopted a giant baby, my friend Kelly and I. Her friend, we've decided he was our baby. And he had to come sleep in one of our extra guest rooms. And I was like, wait, what happened? It's like the whole day got away from me. That's how it goes.

I know. That's how it goes. Starts with one drink. So yesterday, so I'm hibernating this week until my next batch of visitors come, which is Friday. And then we got you out of bed at seven in the morning. That's okay. You know, I get up early anyway. I'm always up. Okay. So our guest today has a book out that you may have read. It's called Going There. Her daily newsletter is called Wake Up Call. I get that every morning. It's a mix of news, culture, and advice. She's the EP, which is an executive producer of the new documentary, No Ordinary Campaign, which is

debuting at South by Southwest. And she is host of her podcast, which is called Next Question. Please welcome Katie Couric. Hi. Katie, what are you doing on the floor? Oh, because we don't have a place to do this. So I'm just going to sit on the floor and honestly, it'll be fine. It'll be comfortable. What are you two girls up to that you're both sleeping in the same room and have nowhere else to record? She's not sleeping in here. She's sleeping in the same room and have nowhere else to record. She's not sleeping in here. She's sleeping in the guest room.

But we're in this big kind of echoey house and we thought this would be the best room. Is it? Is it okay? Yeah, well, of course. But the bed is right there. It looks so weird, Adriana. But I think it's a good look for you, Katie. It'll switch things up.

People will be surprised. And by the way, my dad would say it looks like I combed my hair with an egg beater. Hi. Hello. Hi, this is Catherine, my producer. I know Catherine. Hi, Catherine. Hi, Katie. Oh, yes. You guys know each other because she's going to be working with you now. She's going to be helping us, which is so nice. She's so great. Am I yelling? Oh, sorry. I'm yelling. I'm yelling. Oh, that's nice that you have someone who will tell you that.

Oh my God, Katie, where do we start? Let's figure this out. How did we first meet? Was it an interview? I think it might've been an interview. I'm trying to remember when I took you to the White House Correspondents Day. Oh, yes. That was really... That was our first date. It was. And I think I just reached out to you because I thought you were fun and funny and that you would get a kick out of going to the White House Correspondents Dinner. Which we did. We got a big kick out of it.

That was a fun night. Remember we ended up in a car with two real randoms? I don't even remember. I remember who. Do you remember who they were. I don't even remember. I remember who, do you remember who they were? I don't remember. The whole thing is a little bit of a blur to me, but I remember it was cute, Chelsea, because you were very nervous. Do you remember that? No, no, no, no. Tell me.

You were kind of, I think you felt out of your element and you had never been to something like that. And you were just a little jittery. And it was really sweet. And who else came that year? Was that the year Betty White came? And she was also my guest? Oh, yeah. Yeah. We all sat at the same table.

Yeah. So I felt like I had the coolest table in the room. That's a cool event, actually, the White House Correspondents Dinner. It's really, really like a fun, fun night because it's not a lot of Republicans go, if any. And so that's always a win. Well, that was sort of back in the day, it was pretty bipartisan, honestly. And I think when Trump became president, I think they stopped having them. Then there was the pandemic. And so it used to be a really kind of jocular, bipartisan affair. And it was really fun because the president gets up and makes a really funny speech. And it was a lot of fun. And then I think we went

to the party. Did we go to the party at the French embassy that Bloomberg usually hosted or used to host? Yes, yes, yes. That's where we went. I remember us being in a car with someone really, really famous, like a famous director or somebody. I can't even remember. Oh, yeah. I can't remember either. Who was that? Then I looked to my left and it was another random and I just thought this is one of those nights. But we've had a couple of those nights because we had our Woody Allen night, which we've both talked about, where we accidentally had dinner with Woody Allen and Sunyi and some other unmentionables. Should we retell that story? Or do you feel like everybody's heard it? I know you put it in your comedy routine. I think everybody has heard it. But I mean, there's no... Well, you know what? You tell it because I haven't heard you tell it. I'm accepting the book, of course. Yeah. Yeah. So basically I was working

at CBS News. It was, I believe, was it January or February or something like that in the winter. Chelsea, you and I had made plans to have dinner, which I was really looking forward to. I got an email from Peggy Siegel, who was this sort of big publicist who's kind of fallen from grace now. And she said, would you like to have dinner at the largest single family home in Manhattan? And I was like, well, that sounds intriguing. You know, it'd be interesting to see some big, beautiful home where people usually live in pretty small apartments in New York City. So I said, OK, great. And she said, it's going to

be honoring Prince Andrew. George Stephanopoulos is going to be there. And she mentioned some other news people. And I thought, oh boy, well, the royal wedding was coming up that spring. And William and Kate were getting married. And I thought, any end to a member of the royal family is a good end. Well, that turns out not necessarily. That's what she said. But anyway, so I thought, gosh, I should probably go to this. And I called you and I said, Chelsea, I've just been invited to this dinner. Do you want to go? It sounds like it might be interesting. It's for Prince Andrew. I don't know if I even mentioned that when I called you. I think I must have. And I said, do you want to go? And you were like, sure, why not? So I was dating someone at the time. So he came to, it turns out, and I Googled

him as I almost got there. I think I met you there, but I remember Googling Jeffrey Epstein and thinking, oh, well, he was convicted of something in Florida. It sounded sleazy, but it didn't sound horrible and criminal and disgusting as now we know his behavior was. So I thought, oh, this is pretty sketchy, but I guess I'm in now. And so we walked in and there was this whole assortment of people, including George Stephanopoulos. I believe Charlie Rose was there. And yes, Woody Allen and Sunni. And it was probably about, what would you say, Chelsea, like 24 people? Oh, I remember it being so much smaller, but you know, my memory is not great because I didn't even remember that you brought a date. So. Really? Yeah. Was it John? No, it was Brooks, the young guy I was dating at the time.

Oh, okay. Okay. So no, I thought it was a small party, like eight or 10 people. No, no, no. Well, I think actually it was probably somewhere between 10 and 24. I think I only remember the key players is why I'm remembering it. I remember Charlie Rose walking out just shit-faced, leaving his coat, and then coming back an hour later because you and I were leaving, and apparently Brooks, we were leaving. And then he came back and he was kind of like walking down the street, very disoriented. And he was like, I'm looking for my coat. I'm like, oh, I had no idea so many people were such a hot mess, you know? I was like, oh, Charlie Rose acts like this at that time. He was a respectable newsman, too.

So I remember that much from the night. But I remember kind of sitting in, I almost think like a horseshoe shaped table situation, maybe in the living room. And I titled that chapter of my book, Lasagna Was Served, because they serve lasagna in these sort of shallow bowls. And then before that, he'd kind of given us a tour of the house. And I remember he had those Stubbs and Wooten velvet slippers on and torn jeans and like a velvet, maybe a velvet blazer. And he was holding a drink. And I really didn't know very

much about him. I remember the artwork being weird. But after dinner, that's when you went up to Woody Allen. I was at the end of dinner because I remember the artwork being weird. But after dinner, that's when you went up to Woody Allen. I was at the end of dinner because I remember the living area. We were all seated because I kept seeing all these people walk in. When I saw Woody Allen and Sun Yi walk in, I remember going, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what is this? And then I didn't obviously know Jeffrey either, Epstein. I knew Prince Andrew. I know who Peggy Siegel is. Yeah. And George Stephanopoulos. I don't remember him being there at all. George Stephanopoulos.

No. Charlie Rose is the other person I remember. And then I feel like there was one other. But I know when you just said that, I was like, oh, he was there. Yeah. Well, that's great to know. Good information. What a high ratio of predators.

I know. When I look back, I'm like, oh, my God. Almost every person in that room was canceled. Yeah. It felt like the den of iniquity or something. But after dinner, Chelsea, everyone was sort of sitting around. And I remember seeing a friend of mine who's a doctor who knew Jeffrey Epstein talking to him and a female doctor, really beautiful woman. And then Chelsea walks up to Woody Allen and Suni. And I don't think I heard you say it. You just told me later and said, hi, you know, I'm Chelsea Handler. And you started chit chatting. And you said,

how did you two meet? Now, you knew how they met, right? You were just... Well, of course, I was giving it to him. But it was at dinner when we were getting dessert. We were seated at the table because I was seated right across from them and I was next to you. You were on my right and they were across from me. And the whole time at dinner, all I was waiting was to say something to him because as a woman, I was like, there's no way that I'm not going to say something to him to make him know that he's out completely out of line.

But you did hear me because you said, okay, Chelsea, time to go. Katie mentioned that this happened. I was like, wait, that was real. She really said that it wasn't just a bit. I just figured it was like a bit. Oh, no, it was a bit. That part I remember perfectly because I had to contain myself for so long throughout the dinner to not embarrass everybody. You know what I mean? As a guest, I was like, how do I play this? And I remember because I was talking to Woody Allen during the dinner, trying to be friendly. And we were talking about stand up and movies and all of that. And I was like, oh, and then I was like, don't do this. Don't

get sucked in and think that you like somebody. You don't like this person. You don't like them. I had to have this internal dialogue with myself the whole time. Yeah. And I was definitely tipsy because I'm me. One weird thing I remember is when we left, Brooks looked at me and said, did you notice how young the girls were who were taking our coats? Oh, God. So he noticed.

Well, he did. And he mentioned it to me. So now in hindsight, that's a very perceptive and really upsetting comment. Yeah, yeah. And we've been through we've hung out a lot of times because we had boyfriends that both had places, right? We were both spending time in Shelter Island for a while. You were about to get married. And I've met your daughters who, you know, are fabulous. And so yeah, we've known each other for many, many years. Yeah. And of course, I follow you from afar and love watching you, not only with your Santa, but I'm obsessed with your Instagram. So I enjoyed watching you skiing in your bikini recently. You're a good skier, Chelsea. Oh, thanks. I've been, you know what, Katie, I've been working so hard at becoming a good skier. It was like my dream as a little kid. I was like, I just want to be a great skier.

Well, you have very good form in every way. But I, you know, when did you start? Because I started skiing at 45. I'm 66 now. And I can ski okay. Like I can do a semi-easy blue, but I have never felt that freedom, that total relaxation that good skiers feel. Yeah. It's just time spent, right? I bought a place in Whistler and I just spent months here at a time and just skiing over and over with an instructor, you know, a former racer who's giving me technique. So I'm not just running around the mountain like a lunatic. And that's helped a lot too. I think part of the problem, Chelsea, is I only ski once a year. Yeah. It's hard to improve when you don't put the effort in or you don't have the time. I have to tell you,

my instructor is my father-in-law, Herb, and Herb is 91. And he, oh, don't tell anyone. He's still a ski instructor in Aspen. Oh my God. Really? How cute is that? He is, well, he is the most amazing person. I mean, he is in incredible shape. Not only does he carry his skis, he carries mine. He is obviously an excellent skier. He's been doing this for like 40 years. He was in business and he cashed out and his boys, one of whom is my husband, thought, oh, he's going to do this for a little while. But no, 45 or 50 years later, he's still doing it. And he's just amazing. And he's so much fun to be with. And he has helped me become a mediocre skier. Yeah. Yeah. And I like mountain culture. I like the idea of going for a run,

having a nice leisurely lunch, then going for more skiing and then apres. I'm home every night by 7.30 or 8 o'clock mostly. And you're exhausted, right? I'm exhausted. And then I get a massage or I read at night. I mean, I'm just so happy in my little winter cabin life that I've created for myself. That's awesome. Are you there by yourself? Do you bring friends? People come through. I bet your sister comes, right? Yeah. My niece was just here for my birthday. My friends were here. They just all left. So then I have a couple of down days and then I have a new group coming in this weekend. Fun. So yeah, people come through all the time. It's really fun. Oh, that's great. Where have you been spending your vacation time? Do you guys go to the Hamptons mostly in that area? Right now we're in a rental property in Los Angeles. So for the past five or

six years, during the dog days of winter in New York. We've usually come out here for six weeks to two months because now when you can work remotely and now that we have our own company and everything, I don't have to be in a studio. So that's been a really nice change of pace, but it is the weather, Chelsea, here. I know. I know. I can't believe you just said you were in LA. I would have thought you were going to say you were in the Hamptons or something. It is so bad in LA right now. It's the worst time. I have a very good piece of good news to report because it's sunny right now. And I can't believe it. Adriana, who works with me, who's here for a couple of days, said she feels like she's taking a party drug. Inside you, two wolves are locked in battle. One thrives on fear and anger and doubt.

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podcasts. 2025 is bound to be a fascinating year. It's going to be filled with money challenges and opportunities. I'm Joel. Oh, and I am Matt. And we're the hosts of How To Money. We want to be with you every step of the way in your financial journey this year, offering the information and insights you need to thrive financially. Yeah. Whether you find yourself up to your eyeballs in student loan debt, or you've got a sky-high credit card balance because you went a little overboard with the holiday spending, or maybe you're looking to optimize your retirement accounts so you can retire early, well, How to Money will help you to change your relationship with money so you can stress less and grow your net worth. That's right. How to Money comes out three times a week, Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays for money advice without the judgment and jargon. Listen to How to Money on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really No Really podcast, our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor.

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or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. You know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout?

Well, that's when the real magic happens. So if you love hearing real, inspiring stories from the people you know, follow, and admire, join me every week for Post Run High. It's where we take the conversation beyond the run and get into the heart of it all. It's lighthearted, pretty crazy, and very fun. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So let's talk about John and talk about your marriage a little bit because you guys have a very great thing going and he's a great support ballast for your life as well as you to his. We're going to talk about your cancer advocacy work also because you lost your first husband to cancer, you lost your sister, and this is a very important kind of lifelong project for you.

Just so I'd feel part of the whole mission, I got cancer too. Exactly. So tell us what the update on that is. The cancer or John? Well, let's talk about the cancer first. Okay. All right. I kind of ruined the flow, didn't I? Let's talk about your health first. My health is good. And by the way, Katie, let me just interrupt. I had no idea you were 66 years old. You are so cute. You have never not, and I know that you talk about in your book how annoying it is to be cute, but I have to say, you have one of those faces that you will never look old.

I don't know about that, Chelsea. No, you don't. You just look, you always look young. It doesn't matter what your age is. I do have kind of a young vibe, kind of a lively young vibe. So thank you. You're nice to say that. But in terms of my health, I'm fine. Knock wood. Only because when I was diagnosed with this, Chelsea, I wasn't that surprised because cancer has been such a fixture in my life, but I felt so lucky because both Jay and Emily were diagnosed with stage four cancer. And it's all about when you're diagnosed. That's why I've been

on my sort of relentless advocacy about screening, because if you detect cancer early, that's when it's most treatable, right? When it hasn't metastasized, when it hasn't spread through your body and landed on another organ. So I didn't realize I hadn't gone for my annual mammogram. Went and got a mammogram, didn't expect anything weird, but my breast radiologist, who's I think one of the best in the world, Susan Drosman said, you know how the technician calls the doctor in and they're looking at the scan. And I have always gotten an ultrasound because I have very dense breasts, which can only be indicated on a mammogram. And 45% of women, 40 and over, have what are considered dense breasts. And dense breasts mean that the breast density, the tissue,

shows up white in the mammogram. So it makes it very hard for the radiologist to identify a tumor or an abnormality. As Susan says, it's like looking for a snowball against a backdrop of snow. So I've always gotten breast ultrasounds and we were videotaping it to do a little tape piece on the importance of getting screened. And Adriana, who's here with me now, who's sort of, we're like frickin' frack. Susan said, you need to stop filming. She was filming on her iPhone, and we were just going to put together a little piece. And I said, no, it's okay. She can keep filming. And she's like, no, tell her to stop. And so she said, I see something very suspicious. I'm going to do a biopsy this afternoon. Can you stick around? Long story short, it was after getting a lumpectomy, a stage 1A

hormone receptor positive breast tumor. So I got radiation for 15 days, a lumpectomy prior to the radiation. And then you take something called an aromatase inhibitor for five years, which suppresses the estrogen. The biggest bummer about this, so my cancer, as my surgeon said, is the good one. It's not only treatable, it's curable. The only bummer about it is I desperately miss my estrogen. Well, that's my next question. Yes. How does that affect someone of your age? Because we need HRT at a certain age, right? Well, I had been on hormone replacement therapy, although my doctor says she does not think that

contributed to my breast cancer, but I was on the patch for probably 10 years. So I had to take the patch off immediately. And now I take these pills that further suppress estrogen. And what can I say? It sucks. Estrogen is a wonder hormone. It helps with brain fog. It helps with skin dryness, dryness everywhere, if you know what I'm saying. And so it's not fun, but it's a small price to pay considering what other people go through.

What have been the worst kind of or the biggest side effects that you've had? I think, you know, I have very dry skin. And when I was a little girl, I had eczema on my arms. And so I was starting to get really dry skin even when I was on the patch. So I think it's just made it worse. And so that's really the most significant. I know it sounds stupid, but it's bothersome. Does it help if you're just constantly lathering up your face with serum and moisturizer? It does, but I just don't do that. I'm kind of lazy and undisciplined and I'll do it after I

get out of the shower and then I'll... It's just not something I do. I'll do it after I get out of the shower. It's just not something I do. I should do it every night before I go to bed and all that, but I'm usually too tired and too lazy. But I haven't noticed a problem with brain fog. Sometimes, like a lot of people my age and anyone my age listening will know that I kind of have to think of words or I don't quite have the recall I used to have. I saw somebody at Craig's the other night who's a very big guy in the TV industry. And I was like, I can't remember his name. And then I saw LeVar Burton, which was very exciting. But so I really haven't noticed much of a change. And it's hard because as you get older, it's hard to parse out like what's causing what.

And I'm stiff and my joints are kind of stiff. I do a lot of Pilates. But is that because of the estrogen that I'm not taking or is it just sort of a natural part of aging? So one of the things I really wanted to come out of my breast cancer diagnosis is I want women to A, find out if they have dense breasts to be their own advocates, find out if they have dense breasts and then ask if they can do additional screening because a lot of breast cancers are missed in women with dense breasts because mammograms aren't sufficient. So I went down to Capitol Hill and did a press conference with a Congresswoman from Connecticut named Rosa DeLauro. She introduced legislation. John makes fun of course, many women can't afford it. So

I just want women to really be smart about their testing and make sure that they get all the screening they need. Thank you for this public service announcement. I'm kidding. No, thank you for this public service announcement. Let's talk about your relationship and meeting someone later in life in the way that you did and how that's impacted your family dynamic with your girls and with you and how this is different, you know, obviously than your prior relationship. Every relationship's different. So some of the highs and like inspirational things

that you can share with us for people who are listening. Well, it's been a joy and I really, I'm so happy that I met John and that we found each other. You know, he's just good company. He's fun to be with. Of course, occasionally we get on each other's nerves. He bugs me. I bug him.

But he's really, he's just a solid person. He is a happy person. He loves adventure. Although he's kind of boring with his restaurant choices. We go kind of a square mile around our apartment. I'm like, Molnar, can we like mix it up a little bit? But he's got a great family. They have been an additional gift.

He's one of three boys. And, you know, I love his parents. Both my parents have died, and Jay's parents died a number of years ago. So Herbie and Paula treat Ellie and Carrie like their granddaughters. I mean, they really think of them as their granddaughters. You know, it was hard because Ellie, Carrie and I were like the three musketeers for so long. And when we got engaged, they came out to the Hamptons and I took them into a room and I showed them my engagement ring and they both burst into tears. And they weren't really happy tears. I think they were just shocked and worried that this was going

to change things. But of course it hasn't. He's just enriched our lives and he's got two wonderful kids as well. And we're too old to be the Brady Bunch. My kids are grown, his kids are grown, but they all have a really nice relationship. And I just feel extraordinarily lucky. And what I tell everyone, since I know this is an advice show is, you know, you have to be intentional. If you want a partner, and I'm kind of a partner person, you have to tell people, you have to ask people. So when I asked my friend Molly Helfit at spinning class, if her husband, who was the chief of trauma surgery at the hospital for special surgery, I said, Molly, does Dave know any doctors?

I'm so interested in medicine and science. I've learned so much about cancer. I think I'd enjoy dating a doctor. And she said, we don't have, I don't think we know any doctors, but we do know this banker named John Molnar. And I was like, does he have a pulse? Has he ever been to a doctor? Because that will all suffice.

And so he finally called me and he was funny. Right away, he just had an easiness and a fun personality. And I just liked him immediately. He felt comfortable. He was from Chicago. I like Midwesterners, Chelsea. They're just a little different in a good way. They're just less pretentious. I know that's such a generalization about millions of people. But anyway, so it's all worked out. And I'm really happy. And as I said, I feel very, very, very lucky. And also, I think what you said as a salient point is having your girl's reaction, thinking

there's going to be some sort of subtraction and instead there's an enhancement, an addition. Everything he's bringing to the table is actually wonderful. His parents, you know, his kids, all of those things and those elements. His intelligence, you know, he's the CEO of our company. He's a great businessman. Working with your partner or spouse is not always easy. We're both pretty strong-willed, but his skills in building this company, Chelsea, we have like 40 plus employees. We're working with purpose-driven brands. I have a podcast. We have a newsletter. We have a million subscribers. Newsletter, which is great, you guys. I read it every single morning. Oh, thank you, Chelsea.

Wake Up Call, it's called. So if you haven't signed up for that, please do. It's a great way to get your news in the morning. And it's got a mix of everything. So it's not like you're just reading about politics. It's got like pop culture. And health and wellness. Yes, and human interest stories, all of those things. Yeah, you go to katiekirk.com to sign up, shameless plug. But. And human interest stories. All of those things. Yeah. You go to katiekirk.com to sign up. Shameless plug.

But anyway, that's John. Yeah. Well, thank you for making sure we spoke about him. Okay. So we have a couple of letters that people have written in. I think we have one live call, Katherine. Tell us what we're in store for. Well, I mean, it's all on the themes that we've touched on today. It's relationships and starting over. It's breast cancer. So,

Katie, I know you have talked about it all. So I thought these questions would be perfect for you. Okay, great. Great. But we'll take a quick break and we'll be right back with Katie and Chelsea. Inside you, two wolves are locked in battle. One thrives on fear and anger and doubt. The other, courage, wisdom, and love. Every decision, every moment feeds one of them. Which wolf are you feeding? I'm Eric Zimmer, host of The One You Feed. I've been there, homeless, addicted, and lost. I know the power of small choices to turn your life around. On this podcast, I sit down with thinkers, leaders, and survivors to uncover what it takes to feed the good wolf.

This podcast saved me. It's like having a guide for the hardest parts of life. The wolves are hungry. What will you feed them? Listen to The One You Feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 2025 is bound to be a fascinating year. It's going to be filled with money challenges and opportunities. I'm Joel. Ooh, and I am Matt. And we're the hosts of How To Money.

We want to be with you every step of the way in your financial journey this year, offering the information and insights you need to thrive financially. Yeah, whether you find yourself up to your eyeballs in student loan debt, or you've got a sky-high credit card balance because you went a little overboard with the holiday spending, or maybe you're looking to optimize your retirement accounts so you can retire early,

well, How to Money will help you to change your relationship with money so you can stress less and grow your net worth. That's right. How to Money comes out three times a week, Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays for money advice without the judgment and jargon. Listen to how to money on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really No Really podcast, our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor. We got the answer.

Will space junk block your cell signal? The astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer. We talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you. And the one bringing back the woolly mammoth. Plus, does Tom Cruise really do his own stunts? His stuntman reveals the answer. And you never know who's going to drop by. Mr. Bryan Cranston is with us today.

How are you, too? Hello, my friend. Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park. Wayne Knight, welcome to Really No Really, sir. Bless you all. Hello, Newman. And you never know when Howie Mandel might just stop by to talk about judging. Really? That's the opening?

Really No Really. Yeah, really. No really. Go to reallynoreally.com and register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. It's called Really? No, Really? And you can find it on the iHeartRadio app on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. You know that rush of endorphins you feel after

a great workout? Well, that's when the real magic happens. So if you love hearing real, inspiring stories from the people you know, follow, and admire, join me every week for Post Run High. It's where we take the conversation beyond the run and get into the heart of it all. It's lighthearted, pretty crazy, and very fun. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. We're back. Well, today I thought we might start with our caller. She's a teacher, so we got to get her back to her students.

But she says, Dear Chelsea, I got together with my husband 10 years ago after two years of close friendship. In that time, my husband battled a heroin addiction. For the first five years of our relationship, he was in and out of rehab and recovery. Although it wasn't easy, I do think him being in recovery made me a better person. I learned to focus on myself. I learned how to set better boundaries in all my relationships. And through it all, our relationship still remained a very good one. We've always communicated well, loved each other sincerely, and had a relationship based on true friendship. In July 2021, we decided to finally get married. Our wedding day was the happiest day of my life.

And since our wedding day, we've been having a true honeymoon period. The amount of love we have for each other is honestly overwhelming. Things were finally looking up. After years of dealing with the drama of relapse and recovery, he had found stability and sobriety a good job and he had goals. We bought a house together last September and things were going better than I'd ever imagined. Then in December, I found out he was sleeping with his coworker. This is something I never saw coming and could not have prepared myself for. We went from mentioning daily how grateful we were for each other to him moving out and pursuing a relationship with another, much younger by the way, woman. To say I'm devastated

is an understatement. This feels to me a lot like a relapse. It happened suddenly after he stopped taking care of himself, going to meetings, and communicating with his sponsor and friends in recovery. I married him fully knowing that there was a possibility he could relapse, but I never knew how this could happen. Since he moved out just before Christmas, he has moved into an apartment, continued dating his coworker, and basically ignored my existence. He's given me no indication that he's interested in working on himself or our relationship, but I'm having such a hard time letting him go. Do I wait for him to figure his shit out? Do I move on? How do I let go? Elizabeth. Oh, God. That is so sad. So brutal. Hi, Elizabeth.

You're here. Oh, hi, Elizabeth. I'm so sorry, Elizabeth, this happened. And I can imagine how devastating this is. And it sounds like you were so important to his journey. And then to have this happen is awful. By the way, you look so young. How could this woman be much younger? What is she, 11? She's 26. And how old are you?

32. I want to echo what Katie said. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Heartbreak is the, it feels like it's the worst thing and that it is the most unrecoverable thing, but it is not. And you will recover. And I said this the other day to my friend and because we were talking and I know it's

like sometimes when we can't get ourselves out of situations by ourselves, the universe has a way of getting us out of those situations. And even though it doesn't feel like he's doing you a favor and he has several issues with drugs, with the cheating, with all of these things, this is a way for you to have him out of your life and really reassess, I think, what drew you to him in the first place, what allowed you to trust him in the first place and have so much faith in him and kind of recalibrate what you're willing to accept in the future moving forward, whether it's him coming back in six months, which is a possibility. And you have to decide what you're going to do with that if and when that happens. And if it doesn't happen, what are you going to do to prepare yourself to be in a real loving relationship that is reciprocal,

where you don't have to worry about somebody going off the rails, because it was intense, intense, intense, intense, and then disappear. Like that's not what any responsible human does. You sit down and you have a conversation saying I'm having these feelings for another person, or I've acted on these feelings, and I'm confused. You don't just take off and ignore this person that's been by your side. I agree. I mean, it sounds so cruel that he, you know, people do fall in love with other people. It happens. But the fact that he has been so cruel and callous and completely cut you out of his life. But I, one thing I wanted to say that Chelsea mentioned is it's so interesting who we're drawn to, you know, were you drawn to

him because you wanted to save him, that you wanted to fix him, that you wanted to help him? Is there something in your past, in your relationships with your family or with your parents that maybe make you gravitate to people like this who are sort of dangerous and living on the edge? And even if he was getting better, I thought it was interesting too, that you described this as a relapse, like maybe one addiction replacing another, the high of almost an illicit romance replacing the high of drugs.

And I don't know much about that, but I thought that was an interesting use of words. Did you, Chelsea? Yeah, absolutely. It does sound like a transference, right? Like you go from one thing to the other. Do you know if he's had a relapse? I don't think he's used drugs or alcohol. A lot of the warning signs of a relapse were coming up before I found out, which is how

I found out. I started getting a little bit suspicious. I thought that he relapsed on drugs and then I found out that it was an affair. And like I've spoken to his sponsor, his sponsor agrees it's very much like relapse behavior, but he's in such denial. Like he does not want to hear it. And he gets super defensive anytime anybody accuses him of needing mental health help right now. And when was the last time you spoke with him? Well, I spoke with him on Sunday because he wants to talk about taxes. But he did tell me on Sunday that he's no longer with that girl, but that he still doesn't want

to be married to me anymore. And you have this house together? Yeah. And so what's the plan there? Have you gotten that far yet? I know I'm not moving. I'm not selling the house. I put a significant portion of my savings into the house, like the down deposit, and it wouldn't make any sense for me to move because rent anywhere. I have two dogs and rent anywhere with two dogs would be more expensive than what my mortgage is. But he's under the impression that we'll just sign papers and he'll get off scot-free and just live a life that has no repercussions for his actions. I mean, I feel like his behavior alone is going to help you get through this quicker, as painful as it feels. He's like disassociating himself from your prior relationship. And I do think you are dodging a major bullet of like more pain and more grief.

I don't think that you should be holding onto the idea that maybe you guys can reconcile because A, he needs a ton of therapy and you don't have time for that. I would rather see you take this time to really get centered and grounded and read all the books that you can read about what that means for you. There's a great book I mention all the time on this podcast, Letting Go by David Hawkins, which is very deep and very meta, but it is about letting the world stop resisting your reality. Whatever is happening, just deal with what's happening and the situation without trying to push, move, or change it. Aligning yourself, and it makes recovery and heartbreak so much easier because there are doors that are going

to open because of this closure that you haven't seen yet. And life is going to take a different shape for you. And you have to be inspired by that and move towards that, if you can understand what I'm saying there. Yeah, that's what I'm having a hard time with is just letting go, honestly, especially because it's a relapse because I married him knowing that he could relapse, but I did not know that an affair could be a relapse. I thought it would be drugs or alcohol. In some ways, are you excusing his behavior and saying, well, this is the personality of an addict? Yeah. And I married him knowing he was an addict. And so what is my responsibility? But then again, I meant my vows when I said them and he's broken them.

And I don't know, even if he came back where we would land. And you deserve so much better, right? You know, there's, I think a lot of women hold on thinking they're going to fix somebody and that's almost part of the attraction. And I think if he, he doesn't let you not to go all Oprah on you, be your best self and let you pursue your dreams and be a full and whole person. And if it's all about him and his addiction and his wanting to stay clean and you're so focused on that, what's left over for you? Yeah, agreed. Not much.

And just the treatment, you know what I mean? This isn't how you treat someone you've spent all this time with, who's been there for you all this time. And that alone is just like, that's not acceptable to you. You deserve so much better and you deserve to be standing on higher ground. And by continuing to have this conversation with yourself about what you want moving forward. I understand it's hard to get over someone, but time will heal. You will get over him. You will get over him before you think you will. It always happens. We don't stay in love with the same people for 20 or 40 years. And sometimes even if people do, there's people along the way that come in and shake things up.

And I think this is a time for you to dive inward and really do the work on yourself so that you're never in a position where you are vulnerable to a person or an addict like this again, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And I think Katie is right that, you know, he's chasing chaos, whether it's the heroin or another person or busting up his marriage in this way, whatever it is. And so are you in therapy right now?

I am. Okay, good. I mean, you know, we talked about this a couple of weeks ago, but when you are ready for a new relationship, because it's probably not going to be right away, but when you are going after relationships that feel steadier and feel really not these like extreme highs and lows. The nice thing about that too is like, there's less for you to take care of. You know, you don't necessarily need somebody who can take care of you in that way, but you need someone who you can take care of each other.

It's not just like one-sided of like, I gotta help him be in recovery. I gotta help him get out of this. You know, I gotta help him figure out his life now that he's left me. I wonder why so many women, you all, are attracted to chaos, chaotic relationships, sort of the push-pull, the where do I stand? I was watching, before I went to bed, sometimes I watch old episodes of Sex and the City, and Carrie is dating Aiden right now in this episode I was

watching. And she said, it's so nice. It's so easy. It's so calm. And she was so unhappy about that. And it's interesting when you look at your own self, like why do I, what is it about my past or about relationships or about my makeup that makes me want to be in this chaos? Because ultimately it's just so not fun. But I think when you see that, you can move towards something that's different than that,

especially with the help of a therapist. I think after five years of sobriety, we were getting to that point. And that's one of the things he said. I was just waking up, going to the gym, going to work, coming home, sitting on the couch, watching TV. And I was like, that's life. Like that's where I wanted to be. I want a boring life with somebody. I want somebody that I can just sit on the couch next to and not necessarily even have to have a conversation. So for me, like we were finally at the point where I was like, great, we own a house. This is our nice little like boring life together. And it was comfortable. And this really just like smacked me in the face out of nowhere.

I feel like I'm still reeling from the shock. It's interesting what some people consider contentment. Other people consider boredom. Right. I would be with you because those are the things I'm interested in as well. Sitting on the couch, watching TV at the end of the day and not fucking talking to anybody. That is also my idea of a perfect relationship. You know, too much talking drives me crazy. It's like I make a living talking. So I like quiet, you know, as much as I like talking. Do you relate to that, Katie? Like, do you like sometimes everyone just to stop? Yeah, I love quiet too. I feel like you that it's contentment to be able to...

I used to be so sad when I saw people out to dinner and not talking. And that still makes me sad when I see couples. But there's something when you're comfortable enough to not have to talk all the time. When you just find comfort in each other's presence and it doesn't feel forced or awkward. That to me is my sweet spot. That's where I want to be in a relationship. And that's what I found. And it is possible to find it. And, you know, I think you deserve a drama-free relationship. That's what you want. And that's what you should go out and find. And I was saying earlier to Chelsea and Catherine, you know, when I look for a partner, I'm pretty intentional about it.

I don't think I'm going to run into somebody at a bookstore, you know, perusing the new novels. I think that you have to network. You have to say to people, I'm interested in meeting new people. And it may not even be for love connections. It may be just for expanding your social circle, learning something new from somebody who's in a completely different profession or has an interesting hobby. And I always say only coffee or a glass of wine because I don't want to be stuck having

dinner with somebody who I just don't feel a connection with at all. But I also try to give them, you know, I try to respect them and appreciate them for who they are, even if they're not somebody I want to be, you know, dating. There's also a book called it's called breakup because it's broken, which is a good breakup book, write that one down. And then the Letting Go book, because I think what you're really talking about is letting go. Yeah. And I think that this is an opportunity. Don't ever forget every disaster, every traumatic experience we have is an opportunity for growth. So you're going to take this opportunity and you are going to grow. You know what I mean? You have to think about that every single day and

use the intention that Katie's referring to as a daily practice for yourself. What are my intentions for today? To learn more about myself, to be more honest with myself, to be looking for the good in people and the people that are giving the good back to you. And really just taking the time to get yourself a little bit out of your comfort zone and the things that you're reading and learning about yourself, even with your therapy, really get down to it. And I think that you're going to be in a much better spot sooner than later. And don't lose hope. Just remember that you are a person of strength. We all have such a deep reservoir of strength within us. Sometimes we have to really pull it out. And this is one of those times where you have to stand on your two feet and don't waver. His behavior has been unacceptable and there's no way back to him. Yeah. And think of all you have to offer. I think when people get

treated this way, they look for deficits in themselves because it's sort of what's wrong with me? What did I do wrong? Why wasn't I good enough? And it doesn't have anything to do with that. It's not that you have deficits. And I think at a time like this, you have to remember all the great things about you. And as Chelsea said, and I think Chelsea would be an excellent therapist, by the way, but that to really think about all that you have to offer, not the things that you are suddenly feeling that you don't have.

When you break up and you start to obsess about the other person, what are they doing? What are they thinking? What's their motive? What were they saying? What did they mean when they did this? That is the thinking that it's like, no, no, what do I think? What am I doing? What do I think about him? What do I think about myself? What do I think about myself? How did he make me feel? Yeah, it's about you. Redirect any thoughts you have about him back to you because that's who you need to be paying attention to. It doesn't matter what he thinks or what he's doing. You're going to stand your ground and you're going to develop as a human being because of this experience. Yeah, you get to be a little bit selfish now. And you should be. That's nice.

Yeah, so stay busy. I know that like, even when I lost my husband, Jay, and even when I've had sort of dramatic breakups, or, you know, after long relationships, I think you really have to lean on your female friends and your male friends, and really stay busy. Take a trip, go for a hike, take a pottery class. I mean, just work on yourself. But I think those times where you wake up at three in the morning and you're ruminating and you can't go back to sleep. And I think just staying busy for me was so important during traumatic periods of my life. It's like I'm trying to strike a balance between staying busy and like taking time to feel my feelings because I think sometimes staying busy makes me avoid my reality a little bit. I feel like I'm performing all the time for other people. Well, maybe stay busy by yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's good to reflect. I think that's

really important. I didn't learn that until I was much older about sitting by yourself and like allowing the pain to come through, allowing yourself to grieve, you know what I mean? Not necessarily relying on other people to make you feel better as a. And it kind of gives you the dynamics between like people who are needy or what people are expecting out of relationships and the attraction that why you're even in a relationship with someone like this. Not that there's anything wrong with you. It's just our patterns of behavior and our patterns of giving love. So yes, please just remember that you're of huge value. Separating is not the end of your world. It's the beginning of a different part of your life. Yeah. I'm going to play this on repeat.

It's a little peck talk. Thank you. I appreciate it. No problem. I'm going to get these books too. They sound so interesting. Yeah, they're all just, you know, like it just depends what kind of hits you. I've read so many like breakup or self-help books. They kind of go hand in hand and some of them are deeper. Some of

them are lighter. There's like the untethered soul, which is kind of a light frilly read. And that's okay. But that's not the book for me. Like I like deep thinking about like how life gets easier when you accept everything and you just go, oh, that didn't work out. Okay. What else is going to happen? Not belaboring, you know, oh, what happened? When you beat a dead horse like that, you're stuck. So you're just going to have to get yourself unstuck, which you're going to do. And then you're going to report back to us. Okay. Thank you so much. Okay. Okay. We love you. Thanks, Elizabeth. Good luck. Bye. I love you so much. Thank you. You're welcome. You're going to be okay. I will. She's so sweet too, just to brag on her for a

second. She said, because I was like, oh man, December, it's right before the holidays that this all blew up. And she goes, oh yeah. And he had invited his whole family to come for Christmas. And I go, oh, my gosh, did you guys cancel? She goes, no, I just told them he left. I don't know where he's going to be, but you guys are still welcome to come. And so they came and stayed with her. Oh, that's sweet. I like that.

I know. What a sweetheart. Oh, God, she's so nice. I would be like, nope. Me too. There's a nice. I would be like, nope. Me too. There's a Ramada Inn down the street. You and your family can go fuck off. That's more

my style. We took up too much time, Katie, catching up. That's okay. We loved hearing what John said. We love it. Jeffrey Epstein, we probably could have cut that. Well, you know what? We can clarify it for now once and for all because also the other thing is I keep getting

these people saying I was on his flight log to Epstein Island. And I'm like- Maybe that's why. This dinner. Have I ever pretended that I didn't do something that I've done? Like I am the first person to announce it to the world. So I would like to clarify that neither Katie or myself has ever been on a flight with Jeffrey Epstein. Just a dinner. Yeah, that was my... Meaning that I was on his manifesto, like she was on Jeffrey. I'm like, what are they talking about? First of all, it's manifest. It's

not manifesto. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Wait, sorry. Manifest. Sorry. Oh, we'll have to edit that out. We can't have you correcting you. Wait a second. Let me start over. I keep reading and people tweet to me, you were on Jeffrey Epstein's manifest. And I'm like, what? I imagine you and I going to that island and then what? What are we up to there? Right. Anyway, but that's good. So yes, my dinner with Jeffrey, our dinner with Jeffrey has been discussed once and for all. Okay, great. Well, let's take a quick break and we'll be right back to wrap up.

Inside you, two wolves are locked in battle. One thrives on fear and anger and doubt. The other, courage, wisdom, and love. Every decision, every moment feeds one of them. Which wolf are you feeding? I'm Eric Zimmer, host of The One You Feed. I've been there, homeless, addicted, and lost. I know the power of small choices to turn your life around.

On this podcast, I sit down with thinkers, leaders, and survivors to uncover what it takes to feed the good wolf. This podcast saved me. It's like having a guide for the hardest parts of life. The wolves are hungry. What will you feed them? Listen to The One You Feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

2025 is bound to be a fascinating year. It's going to be filled with money challenges and opportunities. I'm Joel. Oh, and I am Matt. And we're the hosts of How To Money. We want to be with you every step of the way in your financial journey this year, offering the information and insights you need to thrive financially. Yeah. Whether you find yourself up to your eyeballs in student loan debt, or you've got a sky-high credit card balance because you went a little overboard with the holiday spending, or maybe you're looking to optimize your retirement accounts so you can retire early, well, How to Money will help you to change your relationship with money so you can stress less and grow your net worth. That's right. How to Money comes out three times a week, Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, for money advice without the bathroom door go all the way to the floor. We got the answer.

Will space junk block your cell signal? The astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer. We talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you. And the one bringing back the woolly mammoth. Plus, does Tom Cruise really do his own stunts? His stuntman reveals the answer. And you never know who's going to drop by. Mr. Brian Cranston is with us tonight.

How are you, too? Hello, my friend. Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park. Wayne Knight, welcome to Really No Really, sir. Bless you all. Hello, Newman. And you never know when Howie Mandel might just stop by to talk about judging. Really?

That's the opening? Really No Really. Yeah, really. No really. Go to reallynoreally.com. And register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. It's called Really? No, really? And you can find it on the iHeartRadio app on Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular

online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. You know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout? Well, that's when the real magic happens. So if you love hearing real, inspiring stories from the people you know, follow, and admire,

join me every week for Post Run High. It's where we take the conversation beyond the run and get into the heart of it all. It's lighthearted, pretty crazy, and very fun. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back with Katie Couric and Catherine. And we're wrapping up today's episode. Well, Katie, is there any advice you'd like from Chelsea? Yeah, Katie.

Yes. Oh, gosh. I'm springing it on you. Oh, gosh. Yes. I know I was supposed to think about that, Catherine. I think I forgot to think about it. Okay.

That's no problem. What about if we just do one more question and then close it up? Yeah. I think that's no problem. What about if we just do one more question and then close it up? Yeah, I think that's good. Sure. This is a bit of a heavy one, but it is right up your alleys. So I definitely wanted to get to this one. This is from Marty. Marty says, Dear Chelsea, I'm the eldest of six sisters and one brother. I'm also a wife and mother to three girls. We're close-knit, though a little crazy. My second-to-youngest sister, who's seven years younger than I, has breast cancer, diagnosed back in 2018.

In 2020, the cancer metastasized to her brain, which was a heartbreak. She was given three months to live, and there are not a lot of treatment options. My sister has miraculously lived a quality life for the last two years due to her hard work, support group, and medical advances. However, we're now at a point where her chemotherapy is no longer working. She's on her way to take part in a phase one medical trial, hoping to help others in the future and perhaps also extend her life. My sisters and I have been her cheerleaders throughout this process and have been her confidant and support. She's an amazing person and sister. I sure hope that her life is extended through the trial, but I'm trying to prepare for the alternative. I want to be there for her,

say all the right things, and provide comfort, strength, and peace, but I don't know how to do this. I don't know what to say. I'm afraid I will say the wrong thing. I want to save her. I don't know how to do this. I don't know what to say. I'm afraid I will say the wrong thing. I want to save her. I don't want this to happen. I'm heartbroken and I need to help myself so I can help her. Can you help give me answers? Thank you. And I hope this note finds its way to you.

Marty. You have really smart, sensitive, eloquent listeners. So that was a beautiful letter. And that is a very, very, I think that is one of the most profound and difficult situations. We as a culture just don't know how to help people die. I think I wrote a lot about this in my book because I was in a state of denial and was the cheerleader for Jay, despite the fact that I knew that his illness was, you know, the likeliness of being cured was almost zero. So, you know, they have something called death doulas now, which is really interesting that they help families and they help people deal with their own mortality. And I think clearly this is an incredibly loving family. And I wish that

when Jay was sick, we had had somebody to sit and talk to us and give us space to express our fears and our, you know, Jay's hope for the future for our daughters to be able to have those conversations, which are the hardest conversations you can have. So I have so much empathy and sympathy for that listener. And I think just being there for the person and just surrounding them by love or with love. There was this incredible show on Netflix called From Scratch and Tempe Locke wrote it. It was based on a true story. And I watched it and I just cried because her husband died of cancer and the way he was surrounded by love and the way she was just there for him.

And she was saying, Tiamo, Tiamo, because he was Italian. It was so moving. I started crying thinking about it. And I think families need help with this. You know, nobody reads a book about this. Nobody. It's such a new and painful experience, but I think it can be turned into something that's truly transcendent.

Yes. I think that people need help and she should get together with her loving sisters and maybe talk about it and talk to someone who specializes in this to say, Kate Bowler has a great podcast. She's been living with colon cancer for a long time. She talks a lot about this kind of stuff. And I did a whole video with a death doula and with Kate and with another woman who had lost her husband right after she gave birth to twins. And it's a very, very hard thing. What would you say, Chelsea, to this person?

I think it's really important just to give as much love as possible, you know, to anybody who is leaving this earth. The situation is not in your control. But what you can control is how you deal with the situation and what you provide. And I think it can be a completely transformative relationship for you to be able to show up for your sister in this way, in this loving way, where it's not about necessarily you losing her right now. It's about you being there for her right now and working through your stuff on your own time with your family. I think a death duel is a great idea. And also to just start to think about death in a different way, in a way that it doesn't feel like, yes, your sister may be leaving this earth,

but her aura, her spirit is never going to be gone. I can't tell you how often I feel my mother around me. Katie, do you have that experience with Jay or with your sister, that you feel them around you or that you have a sign when you know that they're giving you or anything like that? A little bit. You know, I'm not very, I just don't think I'm very receptive to that, Chelsea, personally. I wish I were. There are moments, but I sometimes think, oh, I'm just imagining that. Yeah. And I think that's true. I think the more open you are spiritually and open hearted you are, the more

that you will be able to receive from people once they are not on this earth. You know, the energy just transforms, it never dies. It's not like she's going to go on and live up in heaven or whatever, but her spirit will still survive. Because that's the energy that we all have, you know, our spirit goes on. And whatever, wherever it goes, you goes, we'll never know. But I want you to look at it, try to start looking about it. There's a book called know they could speak Italian, you know, like crazy memories that people have from their lives. So I just, I think having that attitude and being open to what the possibilities of life after death are and what that means so that it doesn't feel, yes, you're not going to see her again in her physical form, but that doesn't mean what she's imprinted on you thus far ever has to disappear. And you have an opportunity now to give her so much love and so much support and really

be there for her in a way that is going to elevate you as well, that is going to make you proud of the way that this takes shape. Whether she passes on or whether she is able to survive, you should be prepared for the prior and that you can be here in this moment as somebody who is going to be holding her hand as she leaves this world, that is going to be there with that kind of love. That's all you could ever want in this world is to be born into love and leave in love. And so- I also think, Chelsea, you know, just they're obviously a very close family. And I think to be able to have an honest conversation with her sister, like, what do you need?

I love that you said, don't think about losing her, but just think about being there for her. What do you need? What can I do? What are you afraid of? I don't know if her sister has children. I mean, that's really hard too. You know, talking about even some of the practical concerns that she might have and just telling her that she is there for her to help her in any way, big and small.

And it just, we're afraid. You know, we're afraid to say, I wish I had said to Jay, I'm so afraid that you're going to die. And can you leave something for Ellie and Carrie, who are two and six and are never going to know their father truly. And I just think that as a culture,

we need to learn the language of loss and of illness and of death and that we're so afraid of our own mortality. It just, it's almost paralyzing. Yes, and honoring this time in her life. You know, all the things that Katie just said, and then also having everybody around, having a party, having a dinner party, you know, to a celebration of her life. Yeah, that's true. You know, they do living memorial services now. I read, you know, and maybe you should talk to someone by my friend, Lori Gottlieb. She had a, she's a therapist.

She had a patient with cancer, really young, you know, I think she was in her early 30s and they did a whole celebration of her life while she was living. And, you know, maybe that's something, as you mentioned, I didn't mean to interrupt Chelsea, but that that is something you could do for her if that's something that would be helpful. Yeah. Closure with everyone is so helpful. The whole family member just showing up and just being there for her in every moment and

fulfilling her requests, whatever they may be. And it's going to help you through the rest of your life and your loss too, and your grief and your families, you know? So this is the time when families really have an opportunity to show up for each other. So I know it's a really difficult situation, but I think you can rise to the occasion and really just be a leader, like help lead this so that she's as comfortable as possible and gets anything she wants off of her chest or, you know, time spent with other family members and her wishes for after she's gone to honor all of those things, I think will be really helpful in what you're dealing with.

You know, when my mom died, Chelsea, I was just bereft. You know, I was very close to both my parents. And I remember my minister calling, and I go to church some, I'm not super religious, but I really like my minister and he called to offer his condolences. And I told him I was just felt like an untethered helium balloon. You know, I just was sort of unmoored. And he said, remember those who love deeply, grieve deeply. And it kind of turned a switch in me and it made me go from immense sadness to immense gratitude. Obviously, this letter was written by someone with a very loving relationship with her sisters. And to kind of take a moment and appreciate that is also very comforting.

Indeed. We ended on a really difficult note, but I think so many of us go through something like this that it's going to be really helpful to a lot of people. So thank you for sharing. Thank you, Katie, for sharing. It's always nice to see you. I love you. I hope I see you in person sooner than later. I hope so too, because there's so much I want to talk to you about and ask you about. And I have to say, Chelsea, I really appreciate listening to you give advice because you're very wise and you're very smart. And I think you're extremely helpful to a lot of people, not to mention highly entertaining. Oh, we didn't even

talk about Tucker Carlson. Oh my God. Oh my God. Tucker Carlson. I think that's apt because he doesn't deserve any more. As my daughter said, that's all they have. That's all they have are these culture wars. And that's all they can talk about. And it's just so poisonous and so ridiculous. Poisonous. I loved it. It's so stupid.

Poisonous. Also, my niece was up here saying, she goes, they were on Tucker Carlson talking about how women, if you've ever seen a woman back up a car then you know that they're not equal to men he said it in back up a car like it's almost a parody of misogyny right it's not even in real step with real misogyny you know what I mean it's like it's it's misogyny for morons for 1950s yeah. Yeah, misogyny. So yeah. So let's not give him any more airtime.

But thank you so much for coming on. Oh, I really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed it, Catherine. Thank you. It's been fun being with you as well. Likewise. And Chelsea, please let me know when we're in the same city because I would love to spend some quality time with you.

I would too. I would too. I'm going to reach out to you and let you know when I'm in New York. You're in New York mostly, right? Yeah, mostly New York. Yeah. Okay. Okay, cool.

All right. Lots of love to everyone. Okay. Bye. Thanks, Katie. Bye. Bye. Thank you.

Okay. I've added some new dates for my new Little Big Bitch Tour. I'm going to tell you the ones that are not sold out because we're adding second shows in Kalamazoo, Michigan. Sunday, April 16th, we added a second show. We're adding a second show in Spokane, Washington, which is going to be Thursday. So I'll be performing in Spokane Thursday and Friday. And then we added Red Rocks Amphitheater in Colorado, which is in Morrison, Colorado.

And that is May 10th. So and then I have one new addition. Friday, May 12. We added Monticello, New York. So that's a resort world Catskills. I don't think I've been to the Catskills. Well, ever. And we're continuing to add shows. We have a lot of cities on the list, Vegas, Tulsa, Oklahoma, Alabama, a lot of places in Tennessee. So if you're listening, go to ChelseaHandler.com for tickets. And you can see my stand-up special, Revolution, on Netflix, which is now streaming. So if you'd like advice from Chelsea, just send us an email at DearChelseaPodcast at gmail.com. Dear Chelsea is a production of iHeartRadio,

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