Dear Chelsea - Becoming a Male Lion with Haley Lu Richardson

Episode Date: November 6, 2025

Haley Lu Richardson (White Lotus) joins Chelsea to talk about her bedside-table collection of “besties”, the text that got her a B- from her therapist, and the breakup that helped her grow the most. Then: A newly-relocated caller debates whether to date on the apps.  And an office romance goes awry.  * Get your copy of I’m Sad and Horny here * The Drama Triangle * Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail] * Executive Producer Catherine Law Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert * * * The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. She said, Johnny. The kids didn't come home last night. Along the central Texas planes, teens are dying. Suicides that don't make sense. Strange accidents and brutal murders. In what seems to be, a plot ripped straight out of Breaking Bad. Drugs, alcohol, trafficking of people.

There are people out there that absolutely know what happened. Listen to Paper Ghosts, The Texas Teen Murders, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Robert Smith, and this is Jacob Goldstein, and we used to host a show called Planet Money. And now we're back making this new podcast called Business History about the best ideas and people and businesses in history. And some of the worst people, horrible ideas, and destructive companies in the history of business. First episode, How Southwest Airlines Used Chewereld. cheap seats and free whiskey to fight its way into the airline is. The most Texas story ever.

Listen to business history on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the podcast health stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night. I'm Dr. Priyanka Wally, a double board certified physician. And I'm Hurricane Dabolu, a comedian and someone who once Googled, do I have scurvy at 3 a.m. And on our show, we're talking about health in a different way, like our episode where we look at diabetes. In the United States, I mean, 50% of Americans are pre-diabetic. How preventable is type 2? Extremely.

Listen to health stuff on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The murder of an 18-year-old girl in Graves County, Kentucky, went unsolved for years. Until a local housewife, a journalist, and a handful of girls, came forward with a story. America, y'all better work the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns. Listen to Graves County on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And to binge the entire season, add free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

Welcome to Decoding Well. I'm Dr. Elizabeth Pointer, chair of women's health and gynecology at the Atria Health Institute in New York City. I'll be talking to top researchers and clinicians and bringing vital information about midlife women's health directly to you. A hundred percent of women go through menopause. Even if it's natural, why should we suffer through it? Listen to Decoding Women's Health with Dr. Elizabeth Pointer on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I just announced all my tour dates. They just went on sale. It's called the High and Mighty Tour.

I will be starting, debuting my new material in February of next year. So I'm coming to Washington, D.C., Norfolk, Virginia, Madison, Wisconsin, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Detroit, Michigan, Cleveland, Columbus, and Cincinnati, Ohio, Denver, Colorado, Portland, Maine, Providence, Rhode Island, Springfield, Massachusetts, Chicago, of course,

Indiana, Louisville, Kentucky, Albuquerque, Mesa, Arizona, Kansas City, Missouri, St. Louis, Louis, Missouri, Minneapolis, Minnesota, Nashville, Tennessee, Charlotte, North Carolina, Durham, North Carolina, Saratoga, California, Monterey, California, Modesto, California, and Portchester, New York, Boston, Massachusetts, Portland, Oregon, and Seattle, Washington. I will be touring from February through June. Those are the cities that I'm in. So go get your tickets now. If you want good seats and you want to come see me perform, I will be on the high and mighty tour. Hi, Catherine. Hello, Chelsea.

I am fresh off of Vegas. I came in a car service. I was supposed to my flight was redirected. No, no, I did not drive here. I was in Vegas. I forgot to leave Vegas immediately after my show. so I went to go see Alanis last night. Very fun. So, yes.

So I went to Vegas for my show, my residency. I do what I do every time I have my show. I had like, you know, 15 friends came out. We go and we gamble. I supply the money for everyone to gamble. Everyone lost my money. No. Every single person lost myself included.

And I was like, you guys are bad, juju. Like, whatever. Fine. It's no problem. That money was there to lose. I have an allotment that I don't. that I never spend over. I only take out $2,500 and I give it to everyone,

and then I don't ever take out more. So then the next night, we went to see Alonis, and right as soon as the show was rapping, they all wanted to go out. And I say, I have to go win back the money. You guys all lost of mine last night. Okay, go have fun. So I went, I had no money left because it was gone.

So I sat down at a table and looked at the guy next to me and said, I need to borrow $1,000, and I will pay you right back. And he was like, sure. And I won right away. I paid him back a thousand and then I won my $3,000 back. And as soon as I did, I went upstairs and went to sleep. I'm going to say, you just like decide you're going to win your money back and then it happens.

Like, I've seen it in action. Yeah, thank you. I know. I like it. It's carmically, because I'm not being greedy. I just want everyone to have a good time and I want to break even. Yes, break even. Yes. That's what women can teach men to not be so avaricious, to just be happy with what you have and be grateful.

Exactly. And that's not true. I'm not grateful. I mean, you know what I mean? I am grateful, but I'm not grateful enough for all the things I have. I have to remind myself to be grateful. That's why you have the gratitude journal. Yeah, gratitude, gratitude, gratitude.

Just keep saying it. Yeah. All day long. Well, I'm grateful for our guest today. She's very cute. Oh, my God. She's the cutest. I love her.

She really, like, raised our spirits. She, yes, yes. This is such a fun interview. You'll know her from the White Lotus probably, and she's in a lot of other stuff. But that's how I was introduced to her. And she's just, a little buttercup. And we, I mean, she's now living in Arizona. So that's the only questionable decision of hers that I have a problem with. But no offense to Arizona, but there's no reason

to live there, you know. And she has a cute book called I'm sad and horny, which is a great title. Yeah. So yes, welcome Haley Lou Richardson. Hi, Haley Lou. Hi. How are you? I'm a breath of fresh air. That's nice. That's what you are. Is a breath of fresh air. Okay. Imagine if someone's just like, how are you today? And you're like, I'm a breath of fresh air. but it's nice to hear thanks yeah yeah hi do you feel like a breath of fresh air sometimes i'm trying to think if i feel that way today i think you you have to feel that way today because i think i'm a breath of air yeah i don't know if it's fresh today it's like i'm breathing so yeah sometimes you know when i'm walking through the world i feel

like i can definitely lift other people up you know what i mean like some there are days where I'm like, oh, I can, there are days where I'm like, oh, I can infuse that person, like, even a stranger with, like, happiness and just spread joy. And then when I'm in a shitty mood or a bad mood, I'm like, I hope no one makes eye contact with me and catches what I'm traveling around with. Yeah, I know what I mean. I don't want to spread the bad vibes. Yeah, it's like, the best thing you can do on those types of days is not spread whatever energy you have. Like, maybe just hermit at home. Yeah, just like, just like, stay at home.

Yeah. that's what I do. Usually it involves a Xanax and an edible. I like to pair those two things together just to like take it down. And so that way I'm almost, I have to numb out. Like if I'm in that state, I just have to numb out because otherwise I become like hysterical. Yeah. And I just want and there's like a feeling of rage. Yeah. Crafts help me. I don't know if you're into crafts. But crafts are like, I guess my Xanax. Like beating. crocheting and like making fridge magnets I don't know if maybe it's like something about resorting to your inner child but maybe try a Xanax an edible and a fridge magnet

and making a bracelet and making a bracelet You know I was reading through your new book of poetry Haley Lou has a new book of poetry called I'm sad and horny Yeah true which is a great fucking title It's a great title for a tour I'm sorry that you took it

although I could probably still use it, but I won't. And which is a surprise, because we know you, your most famous role, not your only role, you've been in tons of stuff, but your most... You have a drip of sweat that literally was just dripping to me out. Oh, that's very welcome here. It was fully like a tear. My armpits were crying. Your armpits were crying.

Yeah, I'm really that sad. Yeah, and that horny. Yeah, I guess. You're dripping. That's how horny you are. Yeah. You're most well known from playing Porsche on White Lotus. That was a huge role for you.

I know you've been in tons of stuff. You were in a, you were in un-pregnant. You were, I mean, there's a whole litany of, you've been acting since you were a kid. But everyone found out about you during White Lotus. So you're coming out with this book of poetry, which is very unexpected. I would never have expected that from anyone, really. That's a fun thing to be in life. Keep on their toes.

Yeah. And so can I just read one of the poems out loud? Sure. Or would you prefer to read it? No, please. Do you want to have it read to you? I'm interested in which one you'll pick. Lots of art, too, in this.

I'm going to pick one of the ones at the top because I didn't, like, they're, first of all, there's beautiful artwork in this. Thank you. Shout out to my friend Lily. Yeah, shout out to your friend Lily. Okay, this one's called New Place, alone in South Africa. Put my underwear in a drawer and bought some throw pillows. Maybe it'll finally feel like home.

It never felt like one when we were together. Now I want to take your last name and fall asleep to the sound of your deviated septum. The Mandela effect. Or am I a spoiled brat? I know myself deeper than that. To be alone in South Africa is better than being lonely with you. That's really cool. Dainty-Bing.

I like it better. That's cool. So that poem is about, it sounds like it's about a breakup. It sounds like. It sounds like you moved to South Africa after a breakup. I was living in South Africa for a movie. And yeah, I mean, it's kind of self-explanatory. It's interesting because that one is about to,

me personally, multiple relationships and just like this journey of like accepting just like actually being on your own. But yeah, that was cool hearing you read it. Well, I think that we have a lot of people who call in and write in with similar questions to that where it's like they're afraid of being alone. And they're, I mean, they might be like 32 and they're like, and if I leave this relationship, I'll be alone forever. And it's like, first of all, not likely true.

Actually, it's better to be alone and be with yourself. then be in a relationship where you're lonely. Yeah, feeling lonely with someone else is like the most empty feeling in the world. And being, feeling lonely on your own is actually okay. Like, it's actually proving to be not super awful all the time. It's awful sometimes. But I like it a lot of the time. Yeah.

And I think, I mean, this book kind of covers the transition, I think, from your 20s to your 30s, right? For sure. It's like a comprehensive. Well, I mean, I just turned 30, so it's not like I am all knowing what 30s are about the 30s. So from your 20s, moving into your 30s, which is a really integral part of like becoming a woman, you know? Like, I didn't really feel like a woman until I turned 50 this year. Wow. Like now I feel like a woman, but like a woman, like a woman, like a lion, you know, like a lioness.

Actually, no, I feel like a male lion. Wow. Yeah. That's fine. I can't wait to get there. Yeah. Because I like, I don't feel like a woman. I feel like a woman.

Like I'm excited. to feel like a male lion. And do you feel like, do you feel like a woman or do you feel like a girl? Do you feel like your woman? I feel like a woman. Okay, that's good. Yeah, I feel like a, not a woman, but a woman. Yeah. I do.

And that's, yeah, I do. I mean, I think what is so underappreciated or so, we don't speak enough about it in like the female space is, and men, of course, don't want to talk about it because men don't want us to be alone. You know, they want us to pair up with them. But the value of spending time by yourself, the value of going through breakups, reflecting back on them, understanding that you survived, that you're okay, that you're going to do, that no matter what happens, you will overcome it unless you're diagnosed with some of

you're, she's super horny right now. She's, do you need a tissue? Do we need a tissue for Haley? She's leaking, everyone. I'm leaking from my pit. It's okay, it's okay. That's what it is. Like, I'm not hot.

Did you have coffee? I find coffee makes me sweat in hanging out of me. I didn't. I had match, but you know what? I will. Thank you so much. I think it's truly. because of my deodorant I use like it's not it's a deodorant it's not an antiperspirant so it like is it organic my sweat smells good but it's just like it almost makes me more wet yeah are you using organic

deodorant because that doesn't I do I know it doesn't I just don't want whatever what is it the aluminum but we're getting it anyway no we get it I mean I know I might as well just surrender I might as well you know with all this organic stuff it's like that's a great idea if my whole life was cleaned out by some sort of organic, you know, Buddha or some sort of shaman that was going to come in and clean out my whole house. But that's kind of impossible because we live in this world at this time. We've got plastic in our brain. Yeah, we do.

Yeah. I've just learned to accept it. Right? Like, what else can we do? It's like, okay. Okay. Keep eating organic. I'll try.

I'll get some dove. I'll try. One step at a time. So back to your womanhood. Yeah. So, because you were in a long relationship. You were in a seven-year relationship, right? at one point this was you broke up a long time ago from that I think but you were in a seven year

relationship in which you thought as many young people in their 20s thing that you're going to be with the person that you love like that forever yeah it was all I saw my life was just this person for the rest of it like I actually never even went to the place where I would be like but what if it doesn't work I just from the second I met him I never I never went there I was like, always this is my person and this is the rest of my life. And how did you deal with that breakup? Being dealt information, which is, okay, now this is not what you had to, you know, had planned. You know, I think I dealt with it the best I could.

I dealt with it. I dealt with it, which is important. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was like obviously like up and down roller coaster journey. I think that was, we're coming up on like almost five years since that breakup and there's been a lot of like realization since then, like a lot of aha moments. And obviously the like it's felt lonely and painful and confusing and all of the feelings to be able to get to the different aha moments. But like I do feel like I've let him go and let that like dream of that future go at this point. Right. Five years later,

which that's pretty cool. And do you feel stronger because of the breakup? Yeah, I do. I feel I feel stronger and I feel like I've always had some level of connection to myself and love for myself. Sometimes it's felt deeper down than other times, but like it's gotten that tethered to like myself has gotten so much stronger, which in turn I think makes you stronger, made me stronger. So, yeah, actually, I know this sounds super. dumb and cliche, but like, I'm really happy it happened. But that's the point I'm trying to make to all of our listeners is that, you know, when

you do break up and we have these ideas and we have these attachments to outcomes, not even to the person necessarily, but to the outcome of the situation, it's like if you knew, if you weren't looking at a relationship and you were just looking at like a math equation and you're like, okay, two plus two, okay, a relationship plus a breakup is going to equal this. Meaning you're going to get stronger, you're going to get wiser, you're going to get closer to yourself. These are all the things that are going to happen because of this heartbreak. Yeah. And the journey of the heartbreak is so nonlinear that and sometimes feels impossible and

pitiful and just hopeless that it's like it is when you're in that position, in the low times, it seems impossible to believe that equation. But you know what I did last night actually that is on this topic? I journal a lot, which is, where a lot of my poetry comes from. And you handwrite everything. And I handwrite, yeah, I love handwriting because I feel like when I'm angry, like my writing is angry. When I'm like feeling grounded, my writing is beautiful. And like it's just a cool cathartic expression.

But every time I finish a journal, I have this like ritual where I go through it and I kind of read back what I was writing about and experiencing. And then I rip up the pages. Sometimes I burn them. Sometimes I flush them down the toilet, throw it all the way. And it's like like sage, it's like a whole like thing to cleanse from that. And last night I finished a journal and I went through it. And I was reading the things at the beginning of my journal and, you know, my current kind of things that I'm like a heartbreak journey that I'm that I'm on. I'm like, I was having all these same thoughts that kind of reoccur that I feel now.

But I was having so much more of them and they were so much more like hysterical and had like a stronger hold on me than that. they do now. It's just like nice to see. Like, even though I'm still feeling these things and having these thoughts, like there's been a growth. And I like what you say about going through it because that is a choice, right? You can choose to like do the work, journal, go to therapy, cry about it, whatever. Or you can choose to like distract yourself, just jump into another relationship. Like, it is an act of choice to decide to deal with the feelings as they come up. And also to blame, like to blame the X or so many people can do that, whether you're, you know, it's not about just being a woman, men can do that too. Like, it doesn't matter whose fault it is when something's over. It matters

how you pick yourself back up. Like, that's the most important thing, is how you are going to restore your energy, your faith in yourself, and how you're going to provide for yourself. Like, it's not about other people coming in to save you. It's about you saving yourself. And I think that's something that we always forget, you know? Like, we always forget. You know, like we always forget, you want to be like, well, he's an asshole. And even your friends will be like, he's, I can't believe he's strung you along like that. Or he's, he's garbage. It's like, it's not about him. And it doesn't help to have that energy towards anyone anyway. Although I will say, I think that that is sometimes a necessary phase of the getting to the, you know,

like the, you know, like the, it's not the end goal. It's not the end goal. And it's not the core of what's happening. Right. It's, uh, everyone's, you know, trying their best. Everyone's if I've been trying their best. But is everyone trying their best? I don't know. The thing is, like, it's actually sad. I'm kind of feeling, and look, maybe when I'm a male lion, I will have a different perspective, but I'm kind of feeling right now in my life, like, everyone is trying

their best. And even the really shittiest of the shitty, like, awful vile people of the world, like, it's actually sad to realize that because of whatever their circumstance, that is, that is her best. It's kind of heartbreaking to realize that, but it also is almost like a relief. And it also makes it easier to kind of have empathy for myself that like even in my past when I've handled things now, not the way I would handle it now or not the way, like even now I handle things. Like I sent a text last week.

And my therapist was like, now what would you rate that text? Like, what grade would you give that text? And I was like, probably a B minus. And she was like, hmm, interesting. But it's like, but you know, in that moment I was trying. trying my bet. I literally could not have done better in that moment. And I'm trying to learn from how if that type of moment comes up next time, maybe my best would be better. I think in those moments, if you're in a B minus mood, don't send the text. You don't send the text. You're like,

I have to wait for my mood to get back to recalibrate. A B minus is a passing grade. Like I was like, I feel like this is better to do and act upon than to avoid and ignore. But, you know, B minus is it's not the thing this is what's cool is that three years ago if I was in this exact same position I would have done something that was like an F right like so you know improvement yeah I like to think that at all times I am doing the best I can in the moment and if I'm doing that then that's how we all are no matter what our predisposition is that the right word yeah yeah and your personality I'm going to read another poem that I want to share with our audience.

Okay. I like this. We read to each other a lot on this show. We talk about books a lot on this show. And you read a lot, it sounds like. I want to ask you, because you recently put, well, I don't know how long ago this was, but posted like a very cute thirst trap with a Brandon Sanderson novel. Oh, yeah.

Are you like into the cost? I've never posted. I was like, is this porn? Like my friends were like, do it. It was very cute. But so are you loving those books? Did you get thrilled? Because I'm sort of toying with reading it. It's like a stack of books that's like as tall as a person.

The Way of Kings. Yes. I haven't gotten. To be honest with you, I haven't. I then got distracted and got into more Accord of Thorns and Roses books. Okay, sure, sure. But I have read probably like 10 Brandon Sand. Have you read any of Brandon? I haven't read any because I'm like, if I read one, I'm probably going to have to read them all. I would start with the Miss Born trilogy. Those are actually my three favorite books of all time. What kind of genre is that we're talking about? It's fantasy. It's like pure fantasy. like world building but it's also like the way that Brandon Sanderson writes it's not like it's not smut it's very PG sometimes PG 13 okay but it's like very metaphorical it's like deeply thought provoking and powerful but also just like so fun and I love just getting lost and these things

with magic and there is romance but it's again it stops at like this this reminds me of a Disney World post that you once posted when you went to Disney World. You're obsessed with Disney World. I am a Disney adult. You love it. I'm a Disney. Right. Oh my gosh. Wow. You're a theme. I remember seeing you post that and I was like, oh, because I am not. I am not. And I was like, I'm going to take you to Disneyland. No, you don't. I've been there. I've been there. Been there done that. But let me, okay, this is a really cute one and I every audience member or audience listener is going to relate to this. It's called Bestie. Hot pink, heart blue. I come home. I come for you. you in twice a month, plug me up twice in a row. Just me can't sleep hard week. You're always hard,

aren't you? A little less empty inside. That is really, really cute. I just love it. I'm talking about my best friend. Yes, yes, yes. I love that you said your team would not let you put a vibrator on the cover of this. Yeah, it was a real conversation. It was a real conversation. But, you know, my Lily, Kravitz, who designed the book and has been my friend since I, well, I say at the beginning of the book, she was the first person to ever see me dangle car keys off my erect nipple. Wow. And that is true. My erect nipples. I like that.

My nipples are pretty impressive erecties. They can handle a whole key shit. Amazing. Yeah. I was just thinking about my own nipples when you were saying that because my nipples can get really hard. and I've never used the word erect with my nipples. And I will start doing that now. Yeah, it's like some nipples are deserving of the word erect.

Mine would be. Yeah, my nipples get really hard and then they are serious. You have substantial nipples. But they don't say that way, very long. It's just like a 70-year-old man, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Well, you probably don't know what I mean.

Hopefully you haven't had sex with a 70-year-old man yet. I haven't had sex with a 70-year-old man. And neither have I. Yeah. But I have had sex with men who could be 70 or act like they're 70. or have the same erections as a 70-year-olds. Exactly. I hear what I'm going to say.

Yeah. Okay, wait. Back to your book. I want to talk about how you, so you've been writing, you've been journaling your whole life. Like how, when did you, my whole life? When did you start? I really started committing to the journal after the big breakup almost five years ago. Uh-huh.

Because that was a huge turning point in my life because I was a kid. And then I met that person and was with him for almost eight years. And then we broke up and I was like out in the world for the first time. like as just human and so that was a lot to process and you're an only child and I'm an only child so do you have a really are you tight with your parents I'm tight with my parents yeah I love them I really love them yeah yeah they're good people and they've tried their they're they've done their best you know like they are they've been really loving supportive parents which is and you know they still love each other they've been together since they were 17 and 18

Wow. Isn't that, like, amazing and also weird? Mind-blowing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it's amazing. Yeah, I like them. So, yeah, I was a kid with my parents, and then I was a young adult with a man, and now I'm a Haley person.

Now you're Haley-Livertch. Yeah. It, like, catapults you, like, a breakup can sometimes, like, catapult you into adulthood, especially if you were just a kid when you got into that relationship. And did you lean on your parents a lot during, like, do you? Or during any difficult time. Do you lean on your therapist the most? Like, who's your go-to person?

I think I've had different people throughout my life. Like, in relationship, obviously, like, your partner that you rely on is your partner. And my mom's, like, the closest person in my life. And honestly, has really grounded advice. Like, my mom's not really in it for the drama with things I tell her about. She's, like, really productive with her advice to me. It's nice. obviously my therapist. I shout out, love her.

Sorry this morning. And, you know, friends, although sometimes that can, I think, lead to, if you rely on a friend too much, it can lead to, you know, codependent things and weird patterns that happen and then they just get sick and tired of you or vice versa, and then it ruins the friendship in a way. Let's talk about the difference between codependence and interdependence for a second Because I thought interdependence was codependence. And somebody schooled me the other day and said, no, interdependent is a healthy. But also I was reading this thing that like when you couple up with someone, right, when you become, you're in a relationship, it's almost impossible not to become codependent.

Even though codependent has a negative connotation, when you look the phrases up, they're mostly identical, interdependency and codependency. So do you have an idea of what the differentiation is? I kind of see it through my own lens because, I mean, my husband and I, we are a little bit codependent, but I think mostly interdependent because we have sort of opposite skill sets. And so, and it's sort of like when one of us isn't able to sort of pick up their end of the slack, the other one kind of goes double time. And it's okay. You can burp into the mic here. That's great. That's great.

So, but I think it's like mostly healthy. I think codependence is when it's like almost like needy and you can't do anything without this other person. And then that gets into, like, the other person's sort of being a little controlling sometimes. Oh, I see. I see. Or when your problems become your problems and then you have to, like, basically. Like, you sacrifice your own life for their life. That's codependency in the worst form.

Or, like, I can't make a decision without this person weighing in. Yes. And I've definitely felt that in relationships. Totally. Totally. There's a book called Co-dependent No More that I actually didn't finish reading. You started out. You started.

It was fine. But there is this, I'm reminded of that. I'm like, maybe I should revisit that book. But there's this concept that actually my very first meeting with my therapist that I still talk to now, this was probably almost 10 years ago now. She listened to me talk for like 45 minutes. And then she was like, I'm going to get something and show it to you. And I was like, okay. And she came back from her little drawer with this piece of paper that had a triangle on.

it. It's called the drama triangle. I'm forgetting the dude that like invented it, the concept of it. Have you guys heard of the drama triangle? To speak more, it might be, it might resonate. There's like the dramatic, codependent version of the triangle, which has three points. One of the points is the bully. One of the points is the victim and one of the points is the rescuer. And when you get sucked, like it's not like any of us, right, are like always are naturally, like, anxious attached. It's, like, different situations and relationships that bring things out in us. And so, like, it's kind of the same idea with this triangle that's, like, there are certain

people or situations, dynamics, that, like, draw you onto the triangle. And then once you draw, you're on to the triangle, you're just doing this dance, this, like, musical chairs dance, you know, like, around, like, playing these different roles, which I think kind of ties into codependency. And triangulation. triangulate. Literally that. There's a space for everyone.

Yeah. And then I was like, she was telling this to me and I was like mind blown because I was like, oh my God, I live like 90% of my life on this gosh darn triangle. Like how the fuck do I get off? And she was like, well, let me show you another piece of paper. And then she showed me this other piece of paper that had like the healthy triangle, which instead of the rescuer, there was the cheerleader instead of the victim, you know, I'm not remembering.

I should. We should look it up. But the cheerleader was very important for me because I think the way I got tied on to the triangle a lot of the time was wanting to rescue. Yeah. And I'm like now, how can I like not take responsibility for you but like encourage you as someone that loves you so much

and wants the best for you to like make these decisions for yourself? There's the coach instead of the bully. Oh, there you go. Oh, yeah. You've piqued my curiosity. I'm curious. I see a lot more work to do. I have to finish the codependent no more book.

It's not to get to finish it up. Remember the words on the hell. I'm the finished way of kings. I'll put a link to, I'll find this online and put a link to it in the show notes. The drama triangle. I know you're a big dancer. Like, you kind of came out here to dance, right? Yeah.

To dance and act. Yeah. But my first, like, year here was mainly dance work. Because I remember seeing your people magazine shoot. And I was like, I didn't know you were a dancer. And that was just a really beautiful shoot. Yeah. There was like video attached to it and everything.

Yeah, I did. It was really beautiful. And I had no idea. And then you. You were in a Jonas Brothers video dancing because you're a huge Jonas Brothers fan. Yes, I am. And I was. Some of my friends are like, Haley, are you going to like finally let that go now?

And I'm like, I wish I could. But no. Being such a rabid Jonas Brothers fan, how, because I know they asked you a question once, like, if you had to choose one of their albums to take away on a dessert on the island, which one would it be? And I was like, they should have asked you which Jonas Brother it would have been. Oh, yeah. That's a better question. And so let's figure out who that is.

If you had to go, I forget about their marriages, pretend they're not married. We're living in a different alternate reality. Oh, Cisketio. Which Jonas brother, would you want to be trapped on a deserted island? I mean, I'm getting excited. Thinking about it. We're going to make this a reality, by the way. Well, the thing is, obviously, you know, since I was like 11, I've been obsessed with Nicholas.

So I think I, like, kind of have to say him. I don't. I've never heard anyone call him Nicholas. Nicholas, Nicholas Jerry Jonas. That's his name. There's just certain things you just don't forget. Right. You don't. Like, yeah. So I think we have the answer. It's Nick. Liss. Nicholas. Nicholas. How were you able to retain your composure when you were on the set of that? I didn't. I didn't. I had no self-control. I was like fully just like my teeny bopper 11-year-old me like came out and that's how I was behaving. And I had, I had no, I had no control. I was 11 like I really was and honestly it was beautiful it was amazing I wouldn't have wanted it to be any other way I wouldn't have wanted to like been processing it as like 28 or however old I was at the time year old me like I was just fully seeing it through these like eyes of this little teeny bopper yeah yeah I'm sure they deal with that a lot so I was crying all the time I makeup artist Jenna like just kept having to like wipe the mascara under my eyes because I was like just like just like smiling and my cheeks hurt and I was just like constantly just like tears would come out yeah that was

special I was once in a music video I don't know if I've ever spoken about this on this podcast this is funny story okay I did I was like 17 years old I was in New York City and I audition for this it was a band called natural selection and I was hired as like the pretty girl the lead singer had to like just sing to my face so he was standing across from me and I had never worked before never done any gigs and as soon as he started like singing towards me my lips just like just were quivering and it was so like embarrassing

because I could feel it and I knew just nerves so nervous and like uncomfortable like someone who had no like I wouldn't be able to do that if it were someone I knew singing to me like that I don't think I mean maybe now I could but not smiling like that's fucking weird but at the time I just had no experience

it was almost like you know spasming like my face was smasming And I knew everyone could see me, but I was 17 years old. I had no resources to be like, I need a minute. I was just like, fuck, I'm going to fall and burn right now. And then they finally removed me and they're like, we'll just have you as a background extra, you know, and they replaced me. And it was, you know, one of my very first humiliations. Wow.

And I was like, oh, God, if I had known about beta blockers, you know, that would have been a much different story. You were not meant to be a video ho, unfortunately. You know, I was a video ho a couple times. Were you? Yeah, I was at like 16. 17, yeah, for dance. Like, there was like this, actually, there was supposed to be a, these boys had a band. They were brothers.

They were called Sonas. They were these Argentinian boys. Sounds a lot like another band of brothers. Well, they honestly were like very inspired by and like hoping to be like the Jonas brothers, like, which was a big draw for me. That's my, which one's Nicholas? But they did this music video on the Venice boardwalk, and I was like, each brother had like a love interest. and I was, I think, the oldest brother's love interest. And there was some singing to my face, not like that close.

I don't think I would have been able to handle that. But there was like a lot of serenading. And then I would randomly like do a leap in the middle of the boardwalk. And yeah, I was a video ho. Nice. Yeah. I mean, I feel like music videos, well, I guess they still do that. But I just like, it feels like it's a dated thing to be singing into someone's face.

You know what I mean? I mean, I'm sure that still happens. When I was reading your book of poetry, I was thinking that you remind me a lot of Taylor Swift. Like, in terms of writing all these things down, like a lyricist, a poet, you know, and then I found out you wanted to be a singer, right? Or you want to be a singer? There's like a delusional dream I've had probably my whole life that I would be an amazing pop star because I'm like, oh, and I, you know, can dance and I would look good in like metallic body suits. And I have a lot of feelings, but I really just can't sing, like, I don't have that skill set. And I've tried.

My parents have spent a lot of money throughout the course of my childhood on voice lessons. And it didn't work? They never worked. Yeah. You have a few other talents. That's okay. I have a couple others that I'm focusing on now. But, but yeah, I mean, I love Taylor Swift.

Yeah. Are you Swifty? I guess I am now. I mean, it's kind of hard not to be. Like, it's hard not to be. I'm Swifty, I think, now too. Like, my level of interest and the understanding of the impact that she's had, not only on the music industry and for women coming after her,

on all women and all these little girls. Like, this is the happiest news we've gotten in six months. The engagement. First of all, she was on the podcast. That was, like, happiness. And then you find out about the engagement. It's like she's almost singularly responsible for our joy right now. Because, like, think of how much we've been rooting for her.

her, like, because we relate through her heartbreak and these things that she, like, honestly, very generously shares with, yeah, us, like, so that we can feel, like, not alone, which is a big inspiration for me wanting to, like, give these, you know, poems to the, to the world, because it's, like, I know what that can do for me when I listen to music, like, Taylor. And so we're, like, rooting for her to, like, be happy and, like, have someone choose her. And this fucking haughty chose her. And this, like, the exact thing. exact way, the only way to go after someone like that, which is what he did, like he shot his shot and it fucking worked out. I bet you no one else did that. Does that? I know. No one else

tried to do that except for him. You know what I mean? And he seems, obviously, don't know these people, but he seems like a pretty secure dude. Yeah. And she deserves that and needs that. Yeah. So that's, I mean, I'm really happy for her. Yeah. It's happy making. It's happy making. And when you, I was watching this Instagram video about this little girl and her, she was asking her mom if they were going to Taylor Swift to travel, it's Taylor Swift's wedding. She was like, Mommy, are we going to the wedding? And she's like, no, honey, we're probably not going to the wedding. And then she's like, but why wouldn't we go? Like, we love Taylor. And the mom was like, no, like, honey, we love Taylor because we've seen, we listen to her music and her pictures, but

she doesn't know who we are. And then the little girl goes, huh, anyway, can you put on hot to go? I was like, what a cute video. That is cute. I want to see that. Wow. Yeah. I mean, she is very poetic.

And I honestly, like, I've always listened to Taylor Swift throughout my life when I was, like, 13 or something was probably, it was like pivotal, that song for me. And so, but I never really considered myself a Swifty or really, like, gave in to my, like, full, like, love and respect for Taylor Swift as, like, a. artist and like amazing force person in the world. But I went to the Ares Tour in Atlanta because I wanted to see Biba Doobie, who's this sweet girl I know who was opening for her, and I love her music, and she got me a ticket. And so I was like, sure, I'll fly to Atlanta and watch Biba Doobie and then stay for the Taylor's Whiff concert.

And I stayed for the freaking Ares Tour. And I was just like, I knew maybe a third of the songs. But I was like, because I kind of missed like the folklore or other. albums, eras. But I was like, I was like, it's impossible to be at that concert and watch her presence and her impact and, like, not be so blown away and inspired and impressed. And then I ended up going to the heirs tour in L.A. And at that point, I like knew every single song and was a Swifty. And the other thing I do love, not that this is a podcast about Taylor Swift. I don't think you've ever talked to about Taylor Swift on this podcast. Maybe it should be. But because your

poetry does remind me of her writing. Like it is kind of, you know, her. Writing is poetry. Yeah. But the other thing is how beautiful the family dynamic it was, how her parents have crafted, like, and it sounds like you come from a similar structured, loving, normal family that are, like, solid because it could go one of two ways. And we've seen the disasters with all of these, you know, young people who become famous. And when their parents aren't on solid ground and they aren't grounded, it's a disaster.

And then look at, like, the beauty and, like, you're such a, like, ray of light. Look at what your parents did for you. I'm a ray of light. I'm a breath of fresh air. Yeah, you're a ray of light, yeah. I'm a woman. You're a woman. Yeah, you're a woman.

Soon to be a male lion. So, like, I mean, it's just nice to see the impact of good parenting. I chose not to become a parent because I would have time for that shit. You know, and I feel like that's a very responsible decision to make because if you're not going to be an A plus parent, then you shouldn't become a parent. Yeah, if you're not going to send the A plus text, then don't send the B minus text. It's like, yeah, I got to learn these things now so I don't become a B plus or B minus parent. B minus or a B minus person, which, yeah, you're not a B minus person.

Thank you. B plus or A? Well, we're definitely, yeah, you're in the A zone. Thank you. But yeah, my parents shout out to them. Yeah, no, no, I can tell that you have good parents. I can already tell that. They have like always believed in me and always loved me.

And I think that that is unfortunately rare. It's something that now, like, 30 and looking back and now having this, like, adult relationship with my parents, I'm like, you guys were really great. Like, you guys really, like, supported me and made this life that I live possible. And they're great. They're also, like, a fun hang. Do you really think that's rare to be loved? and believed in? I do think being, like, deeply believed in, like, the sacrifice my parents made to, like,

let me leave high school at 16 and move to L.A. and, like, give up whatever money they were saving for a college experience for me and, like, be away from each other for a year and a half while my mom lived with me in L.A. and my dad was back in Arizona, like, put their lives on hold to, like, make that, like, that is something that I, like, people that I know their parents didn't do that for them and wouldn't. And there's people that I even know that they wanted to, like, do something unconventional or more like, not even unconventional, but just like arts or something, not good. And their parents, like, encouraged them not to because of X, Y, and Z.

And it's like, my parents didn't just encourage me. They sacrificed. They sacrificed and, like, made it possible for me, which I do think is rare. Right. Yeah. It's really cool. On that note, we're going to take a break and we'll be right back with Haley Lee Richardson. On the podcast Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night.

Yes, I'm Dr. Priyanka Wally, a double board certified physician. And I'm Hurricane Dibolu, a comedian and someone who once Googled, Do I have scurvy at 3 a.m? On Health Stuff, we're talking about health in a different way. It's not only about what we can do to improve our health. But also what our health says about us and the way we're living. Like our episode where we look at diabetes. In the United States, I mean, 50% of Americans are pre-diabetic.

How preventable is type 2? Extremely. Or our in-depth analysis of how incredible mangoes are. Oh, it's hard to explain to the rest of the world that, like, your mangoes are fine because mangoes are incredible, but like, you don't even know. You don't know. You don't know. It's going to be a fun ride.

So tune in. Listen to Health Stuff on the IHeart Radio. Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And she said, Johnny, the kids didn't come home last night. Along the Central Texas Plains, teens are dying, suicides that don't make sense, strange accidents, and brutal murders. In what seems to be, a plot ripped straight out of Breaking Bad. Drugs, alcohol, trafficking of people.

There are people out there that absolutely know what happened. Listen to Paper Ghosts, the Texas Teen Murders, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Robert Smith. This is Jacob Goldstein, and we used to host a show called Planet Money. And now we're back making this new podcast called Business History about the best ideas and people and businesses in history. And some of the worst people, horrible ideas, and destructive companies in the history of business. Having a genius idea without a need for it is nothing. It's like not having it at all.

It's a very simple, elegant lesson. Make something people want. First episode, How Southwest Airlines Use Cheap Seats and Free Whiskey to fight its way into the airline business. The Most Texas Story ever. There's a lot of Mavericks in that story. We're going to have Mavericks on the show. We're going to have plenty of robber barons. So many robber barons.

And you know what? They're not all bad. And we'll talk about some of the classic great moments of famous business genius. along with some of the darker moments that often get overlooked. Like Thomas Edison and the Electives Chess. Listen to business history on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. In the new podcast, Hell in Heaven, two young Americans moved to the Costa Rican jungle to start over. But one will end up dead.

The other tried for murder. Not once. Wild. Not twice. Stunned. But three times. John and Ann Bender are rich and attractive, and they're devoted to each other.

They create a nature reserve and build a spectacular, circular home high on the top of a hill. But little by little, their dream starts to crumble, and our couple retreat from reality. They lose it. They actually lose it.

They sort of went nuts. Until one night, everything spins out of control. Listen to Hell in Heaven on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Here we go. Hey, I'm Cal Penn, and on my new podcast, Here We Go Again, we'll take today's trends and headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself? You may know me as the second hottest actor from the Harold and Kumar movies. but I'm also an author, a White House staffer, and as of like 15 seconds ago, a podcast host. Along the way, I've made some friends who are experts in science, politics, and pop culture.

And each week, one of them will be joining me to answer my burning questions. Like, are we heading towards another financial crash, like in 08? Is non-monogamy back in style? And how come there's never a gate ready for your flight when it lands like two minutes early? We've got guests like Pete Buttigieg, Stacey Abrams, Lili, Singh and Bill Nye. When you start weaponizing outer space, things can potentially go really wrong. Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now, because it is. But my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future. Listen and subscribe to here

we go again with Cal Penn on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back with Haley Lou Richardson. And her new book of poetry, which is called sad and horny. I'm sad and horny. Oh, sorry. You know what? That was a question in my publisher was like, are you sure you don't want to call it sad and horny?

And I really thought about it because actually originally I wanted to call the book, I'm sad and horny by this book. Because like I just wanted the desperate, the like aware desperation to be like a part of the title. And they really, I had multiple people encouraged me to get rid of the, by this book. And I agreed with that. Right. But my publisher was like, are you sure you want the eye?

because sad and horny is just so, like, a thing. And I'm like, you know, I thought about it. And I was like, I really want the I'm because it's so personal. And you own it. And then it's like also the question of like, oh, what are you reading? I'm sad and horny. I liked that conversation happening. So, yeah.

Great, great. We're going to take some callers and we're going to give some advice. There's collars? There's collars. Oh, my gosh. That's so cool. Yeah. And then I'm glad you're all therapistsies because that's,

going to help you give out some advice. Okay, cool. Yes. So our first caller is Bree. She's 37. She says, Dear Chelsea, I'm a 37-year-old woman, and I found myself in a precarious situation. For my entire adult life, I prided myself on my ability to remain faithful in any and all of my relationships. I had never cheated and had a very negative perspective toward the idea of cheating. I was in a faithful and monogamous, although toxic, relationship from 25 to 33, and after ending that, I spent four months being single and dating my now-ex, Adam. After almost two and a half years together, I started to realize that Adam and I were not compatible, however, I didn't initially act on it. About four months ago, I started to pay more attention to one of my male co-workers, Bryce.

Even though we've worked together for years, something changed, and I found myself thinking about him outside of work. After finding a work-related reason to initiate a text to him, we began texting regularly. Within a few weeks, we were talking all day at work, taking private walks on our breaks and texting all night. Needless to say, my partner had no idea. This quickly led to us confessing our feelings for one another, kissing when we had the chance, holding hands on walks, and pretty soon admitting that we were falling for one another. I decided at this point that I needed to end things with Adam and chose not to move forward physically with Bryce until I did so. However, that did not stop us from making verbal plans to

be together once I ended things with Adam. Here's where things change. Fast forward to about eight weeks ago, I broke things off with Adam and moved out into my own place. Following this, things between Bryce and I began to slow down, and I noticed a growing distance between us, which I assumed was because both of us kind of had a realization that things were moving along quite quickly. Day by day, our communication dwindled until last week when we decided to take a step back with things until we both have our shit figured out and we know what we want. I'm the one who suggested this because I sensed him pulling away, almost as if I was trying to beat him to the punch.

My dilemma, I feel heartbroken. I know that ultimately I'm likely still grieving the relationship with Adam as well, but I cannot get Bryce off my mind. I recognize that my abandonment issues and attachment style tie into this, but my question is, how can I find a way to move forward with Bryce, given that we work together? When I say we're coworkers, we do not just work for the same company. We sit next to each other a few feet away multiple days a week. Although I'm grateful that I still get to see him, I know that working with him is going

to make this very difficult. We're both fairly mature and are serious about our careers, so I know that we'll both do our best to try and maintain an amicable dynamic at work, especially given that we ended things mutually. However, I'm having a hard time seeing his face on a daily basis. I've never been in a situation like this, both in terms of infidelity and the relationship with a coworker. Any advice to help me navigate this challenge? Bree. Bri, hi, Bree. Oh, my gosh. You're a real person. Brie, we're here. You're real. Oh, my God. This is Haley Lou Richardson, our special guest today. Hi. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you,

Bree. Thanks for sharing that. Somebody once told me, when you're in a relationship that's kind of stale, there's a person who gets you out of that relationship, and you can sometimes confuse that with like, oh, I'm in love. Like, sometimes you just need to get out of position A and move into position B. And sometimes that only will happen if somebody else comes around and, like, lures you away. So this is a huge opportunity for you, for growth, for learning, for getting to know yourself. you have to embrace your womanhood, which we've been discussing, you have to embrace your womanhood

right now. You can tangle anything. You're a woman. We can fucking do anything. You're fierce, you're powerful, and you're resilient. That's what you have to sell yourself every single morning when you wake up or before you walk into the office and think you're going to melt when you see him. You're stronger than him. Okay, just remember, women are stronger than men. And that's not sexist. It's true. So, like, you have the total, you're in the driver's seat. you ended things, and the driver's seat isn't important, but you just have to know as a woman you are so powerful. If you want this to happen with this guy at work, it can happen.

But respect the fact that you just got out of something and going straight into something isn't really going to be the most valuable lesson in your life. The more valuable lesson, and if you want to, like, I always say, I like to make the first time the last time. Like, I don't want to learn the same lessons twice, and I don't want to go to summer school. I want to go to my orca. You know what I mean?

So when there's an opportunity to be mature or easy and, like, give in to your lustfulness or your desires, it's not forever. It's not like you have to do this for months and months or whatever. But just choose your higher self and be like, okay, I just got out of a long-term relationship. The most sensible thing to do is, like, what would you tell your daughter to do in this situation if you had a daughter? What would you say to her? You would say, take some time, regroup. You can have this little flirtation. You had a flirtation with the sky.

It's going to redevelop. You just keep your distance and be in the driver's seat because that's what you are. You are in the driver's seat. Wow. And you could completely control yourself. I know you can. I like that. You know what?

That's actually great advice. You are kind of making the point that I feel like maybe I'm almost giving him the power. Yeah. And I did kind of take that back. Exactly. So that's actually really good advice. And also to your first point, sometimes we just need that one person. and to get us out of the initial, you know, slow moving, stale.

I like that. I'm going to hold on to that. That's actually really great advice. It was a guy that was having an affair, and he said I was with two guys who had both left their wives for other women, and they had been married to their new wives forever, but they said they both had the woman they had an affair with, got them out of their marriages, and then they ended up with different women. And there was like, and they had a term for it.

And I was like, oh, I'm like, well, I'm going to take that for women. Hey, I like, do you agree? What do you think? Yeah, I agree with, I mean, you should want you to be my therapist. You're so, but you also just like, you say really, like, emotionally deep, true things, but you say it like it fucking is. And that's so cool to be like, it must feel so nice to, like, be getting that advice in that way. Yeah, I completely agree. And I also just, like, actually really commend you because I think you, you seem like a very aware, thoughtful person, like the way you go through life, even like your awareness.

of the ways that you were unfaithful in the end of the relationship. Like, I'm impressed by the fact that whatever it was that this guy, Bryce, was showing, and that attraction was showing you that was making it clear to you had to get out of the relationship with Adam. You know, there were times where the powerful woman that was making the decisions and in control of your actions maybe went to the, you know, passenger seat or in the back seat and something else was taking over. but like you never let you get like stuffed in the trunk and just like fully act out of

passion need instinct lust out of control and like I find that really impressive honorable so I mean whatever if there's a part of you I don't know if there's a part of you that like feels guilty or like a shame like see that as like whatever healthy shame so you don't do that again and hurt yourself and someone else in a way that you wouldn't want to again if you were in a similar situation, but also just, like, really, like, think it's pretty cool the awareness you had through all of that. Right. To not, like, go full throttle with an affair sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. Agreed. So good for you on both fronts. Yeah. So just gear up and go back to work, like the badass woman that you are and handle it. Thank you so much. I feel like I just needed a

little bit of a push. I actually really appreciate it. This is not something that obviously I can talk to about with most people, right? I don't, you know what I mean? I'm not calling up my mom or another co-worker or friends, so I appreciate it. I just kind of needed another woman's perspective, and that all makes a lot of sense. And also, thank you for touching on the guilt and the shame, because, of course, that's, you know, kind of floating around in the back of my head or in my heart, I should say. So I appreciate that.

Thank you. Awesome. Awesome. Well, thanks for calling in. Thank you, ladies. I appreciate your time today. Absolutely. Absolutely. Bye, Bree.

Bye. You've got this. If I feel the same way, I'm like, you got it, you got it. That was like a perfect caller. Yeah, she's perfect. Because people call in with these kinds of serious things. I mean, that is serious, but she wasn't broken. You know what I mean?

Some people do call in and they're broken. And then it's like you can't talk to them like that. Yeah, she had like a real like awareness. It was really even like through that hard time because like the end of her, like it's hard to be at the end of a relationship. and something not working, especially if you can't admit it to yourself, then you can't admit it to the other person. And then something out of control happens that's, like, hurtful. And I feel like she actually had a lot of self-awareness.

There's also this idea that, like, when there's an attraction, like we can't help ourselves. And it's just so silly. It's like we can all help ourselves. You don't have to fuck your fucking go-worker while you're still in a relationship. that's such a man thing to do you know like you have to have accountability like leaving the relationship what well i just had this like hearing you say you can't help i can't help myself is like i just had another meaning of that of like but you can help yourself like whatever you are searching for in that connection or trying to get from that external thing like it's like i can't

help myself but actually you can always help yourself right whoa yeah that gave it a Yeah, but that's now I got a double meaning, too. Wow. Okay, great. Well, our next question comes from Lauren, and she says, dear Chelsea. I'm a 33-year-old therapist in St. Louis. I love my job and the life I've built here, but the dating scene is so challenging. I ended a long-term relationship three years ago and have been trying everything to meet new people.

Dating apps, singles events, networking parties, you name it, I've done it. I'm also in maybe the only career that I can't meet people at work, confidentiality and all. She's a, she's a therapist. I realize I already said that, but yeah, she's a therapist. I made the decision to move to a new city to experience dating somewhere else. I love advice on how to make connections and meet singles in a city I don't know anyone in. You're such an inspiration. Thanks for all you do, Lauren.

Well, that's easier than, hi, hi, Lauren. Hi. Hi. This is Haley Lou Richardson, our special guest today. Hi. Hi. Hi. So good to see, guys.

Nice to meet you. Hi, Lauren. First of all, great for taking the situation. and doing something about it and moving to a different city. That's great, proactive behavior. And as a therapist, you probably already know that. But I think you just have to put yourself out there in every way possible. You have to join all sorts of clubs you don't give a shit about.

Just like you start, join a runner's club, join a bike. What city are you in, by the way? I'm in St. Louis, but I'm moving to Madison, Wisconsin. Okay, great. Cheese. You can, I mean, you can join, like, kayaking, you know, on Saturday morning. You can do a paddleboard class. You could do all sorts of shit.

But think about things that are going to yield more of like an intersexual kind of community. You don't want to obviously take ballet class lessons. You know, like that's not going to, I mean, you're not going to meet men. But think of things, and I'm just saying things off the top of my head, but really sit down and make a list of like activities that you'd be down to do. Tennis. If you want to take like tennis lessons, join a tennis club. You don't have to join a country club.

You can join a tennis club. And you can join a biking. club. You can join a runners club. All of those are going to yield both sexes. So you're going to meet friends and you're going to, and if you're in a new city, you're going to need some new friends anyway. You're going to meet people that way. And don't give up on the dating sites. Like I understand that they sometimes feel like, oh, God, you know, like it's overwhelming or it's so depressing because you go on these dates and you're like, this is all that's out there. It's trial and error like everything else in life. And like if you really have a desire to meet somebody, then it's

up to you to make that happen. And you're going to like, you know, push yourself a little bit further. Even if you're like, oh, like, I don't want to do my fucking Spanish homework. I don't, I'm not in the mood, but I know I'm going to do it because I want to get better at learning Spanish. You're going to go on that date. Maybe you don't feel like up for it. But that's one step closer to finding the person that you want. And if a partner is that important to you, then you have to make that like a top line priority. Like treat it like a job. Yeah, treat it like a job. And also I think people forget the value of like asking the cute guy in line at the coffee shop for his number. You know, like, just be ballsy and make some light conversation and they're like,

can I get your number? Yes, that's a great point, Catherine, because everyone would think that I do whatever I want when I want and I have all this confidence, right? I have missed so many opportunities by not addressing a man that I've seen at a party or in a store or something, like, where I've wanted to be like, oh, that guy's hot. Or like, I'm trying to catch his eye and just stupid. Like, I should have just walked up to the table and been like, hey, I think you're pretty cute. Here's my number. That's what the advice I would give to anyone, yet there are many times where I have not done that. And all I do, that's the only thing I think I regret in my life is not actually being as bold as people think I am with regard to like meeting guys or hooking up.

What do you have to lose? Who gives the shit? You don't even know the person. So if they're not into you, who cares? You know what I mean? Like you kind of have to grab life by the balls, especially now. It's like if that's such an important thing to you, you really have to just do everything to make it happen. So that would be my advice.

I mean, Haley's single, too, right now. Yeah, I was going to say, I'm kind of in your boat. I'm kind of in your boat. I, uh, but I do actually feel like I act on, on the boldness, I guess, or just like the saying, like, my thing is I just am like, hey, I just wanted to tell you you're really handsome. And, um, you know, sometimes it elicits like a nice response and there's like, maybe just like a little night, like maybe they don't ask for my number.

nothing ever happens but it's just like oh i had a little connection and they told me i was cute too and that's like kind of a nice little that's actually a perfect way to do it because that's so and like that's that's such a sweet way to do it because it's so charming like it's not like hey i want to fuck you here's my phone number which is what i would do but i mean i haven't exercised that right nearly as much as i'll work better but i think you're really handsome who's not going to love that you know what i mean yeah no one no one that i've done that too hasn't loved it's like the worst that i get is like, oh, thanks. Right?

And they go on with their life and I'm like, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. But, yeah, I'm really in your boat. So I don't, I feel like I was listening to her advice and maybe the same way you were. But just, I guess if there's anything, know that you're not alone. There are a lot of us out on the apps, getting sick and tired of the apps, deleting the apps, thinking they're in love with a waiter because he looked at her a certain way, like sliding into someone's DMs that's on Love Island.

and never getting a response. Like, I mean, like, I've done wild things and none of it's been really successful yet. And I'm just, like, trying to hold on to hope and not become bitter. So I'm right there with you. Lauren, have you tried sliding into some DMs of Love Island contestants? Not with Love Island, but definitely other shows, for sure. Amazing. Have you gotten responses?

Because I literally haven't. And I'm like, wait. What? I have a blue checkmark. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You're like, what's this fame thing for if I can't get what I want? I definitely need to try to be more bold. I feel like I fall into the friendship aspect. Like, I need to, you know, up my flirting and just, like, be confident with it and fake it until I make it.

Yeah. And be active on those dating sites. Like, just get on all of them and be active and be forward about what you're looking for. Like, I'm looking for a relationship. I just always think the more you do of something, the quicker you're going to get to where you're going. There's going to be a lot of rejects or people that you're going. you're not interested in. But in doing that, you're kind of getting all that stuff out of the way and getting closer to the person that you will be into and that you will want to have a relationship with. It's a total numbers game. And you have, listen, you have everything on your side. You're in a brand new city. The options are endless, you know? And you're a cutie. And people are getting divorced every single day. So there's something else to think about. I know. Like what I do think

about that. Yeah. Maybe you'll get some on their second time around. Yeah. That's kind of the best time to get to us. The world is our oyster. All right, Lauren and Haley, we'll need you both to follow up when you put this into practice. Yeah, we'll see. I'll let you know if any of the Love Island contestants ever get back. And I'll see you. I'm coming on tour next year to Madison, so I'll see you there hopefully. Oh, amazing. Yes, I will definitely see you there. Thank you. Okay. Have a great day. Bye, Lauren. Bye. You know what my sister-in-law did, which obviously worked out for her because she's my sister-in-law now. She came home from like visiting family in Ireland who were like teasing her because she was 30 and not married, which is silly, but she felt some kind of way about it. So she just decided to like make it her job to go on all these days.

She went on like one or two dates every single day. And here was her trick. She goes, I had in order to not repeat outfits with the same guy. She goes, I had a first date outfit that I wear all my first dates, a second date outfit, a third date outfit. And most of them didn't get past date three. Eventually she found my brother-in-law and they were like, how are you still single? and, you know, fell in love and got married. But she goes, by the end of that, my first date outfit was like raggedy.

Because I'd worn it so many times. But it was just like she didn't need it in numbers game. Yes, yes. Wow. Arm pit stains. Wow. Okay. I mean, honestly, that is hopeful to me because there's so many, like, especially

like my parents and people of their generation don't get that. Like, don't get the dating apps, the putting yourself out there. So they're like, well, don't you just want to just live your life and let the person find you. And I'm like, that's what I've been doing for 30 years. Ideally, yes. But we live in the technology age. So it's just like a numbers game. And like, that's how so many people are operating. They don't want to waste a night going out to a bar, going out to a restaurant or whatever because they're like, oh, I'm going to save that for my date night. You know what I mean? Some people or like orchestrate their entire or organize their

lives around that. So it's kind of like, that's the age we're living in. So there's nothing wrong with it. We're going to take a break and we're going to be right back to wrap up with Haley-Loop. On the podcast Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night. Yes, I'm Dr. Priyanka Wally, a double board certified physician. And I'm Hurricane de Bolo, a comedian and someone who once Googled, do I have scurvy at 3 a.m. On Health Stuff, we're talking about health in a different way. It's not only about what we can do to improve our health, but also what our health says about us

and the way we're living. Like our episode where we look at diabetes. In the United States, I mean, 50% of Americans are pre-diabetic. How preventable is type 2? Extremely. Or our in-depth analysis of how incredible mangoes are. Oh, it's hard to explain to the rest of the world that you, like, your mangoes are fine because mangoes are incredible, but like, you don't even know.

You don't know. You don't know. It's going to be a fun ride. So tune in. Listen to Health Stuff on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And she said, Johnny. The kids didn't come home last night. Along the central Texas plains, teens are dying.

Suicides that don't make sense. Strange accidents. And brutal murders. In what seems to be, a plot ripped straight out of Breaking Bad. Drugs, alcohol, trafficking of people. There are people out there that absolutely know what happened. Listen to Paper Ghosts, the Texas Teen Murders, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Robert Smith. This is Jacob Goldstein. And we used to host a show called Planet Money. And now we're back making this new podcast called Business History about the best ideas and people and businesses in history. And some of the worst people, horrible ideas and destructive, companies in the history of business. Having a genius idea without a need for it is nothing. It's like not having it at all. It's a very simple, elegant lesson. Make something people want.

First episode, how Southwest Airlines use cheap seats and free whiskey to fight its way into the airline business. The most Texas story ever. There's a lot of mavericks in that story. We're going to have mavericks on the show. We're going to have plenty of robber barons. So many robber barons. And you know what? They're not all bad. And we'll talk about some of the classic great moments of famous business geniuses, along with some of the darker moments that often get overlooked, like Thomas Edison and the electric chair. Listen to business history on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. In the new podcast, Hell in Heaven, two young Americans move to the Costa Rican jungle to start

over, but one will end up dead, the other tried for murder. Not once. People went wild. Not twice. Stunned. But three times. John and Ann Bender are rich and attractive, and they're devoted to each other.

They create a nature reserve and build a spectacular circular home high on the top of a hill. But little by little, their dream starts to crumble, and our couple retreat from reality. They lose it. They actually lose it. They sort of went nuts. Until one night, everything spins out of control.

Listen to hell in heaven on the I-Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Here we go. Hey, I'm Cal Penn, and on my new podcast, Here We Go again, we'll take today's trends and headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself? You may know me as the second hottest actor from the Harold and Kumar movies, but I'm also an author, a White House staffer, and as of like 15 seconds ago, a podcast host. Along the way, I've made some friends who are experts in science, politics, and pop culture. And each week, one of them will be joining me to answer my burning questions. Like, are we heading towards another financial crash, like in 08?

Is non-monogamy back in style? And how come there's never a gate ready for your flight when it lands like two minutes or early. We've got guests like Pete Buttigieg, Stacey Abrams, Lily Singh, and Bill Nye. When you start weaponizing outer space, things can potentially go really wrong. Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now, because it is. But my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future. Listen and subscribe to here we go again with Cal Penn on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back with Haley Lee Richardson, who's going to, I guess, you know, turn on all your apps when you leave here.

And just, I don't know if I'm ready. I'm actually enjoying, I'm actually enjoying yourself. I'm enjoying myself. I know. I'm like, and also I'm. So is your vibrator. So I'm enjoying myself. I have multiple besties these days.

Different shapes for different moods. Love them all equally. So I have a pretty good crew. I look like, we're in a polyamorous relationship. I love different shapes for different moods. I would love to see a chart on that at some point. The book is called Her Book of Poetry, which is great and really funny and sad at times, but poignant. It's called I'm sad and horny.

And so please get yourself a copy. And, well, I mean, you're just absolutely delightful. Thank you. So are you both. Yes, thank you for coming. You really brightened up my day today. I was having a shit show this morning. You were?

Yes, yes. I would not have felt that. at all. Great, perfect. But I'm sorry. But thank you. I mean, you really came in like a ray of sunshine. Okay. I meant that. Thank you. I feel the same way. This was fun. Now I want a podcast. This was so fun. The word of the week is avaricious. Adjective. Greedy of gain. Excessively seeking to hoard riches. Avaricious. Zoran Mamdani won the New York City mayoral race because people are tired of landlords who have become too avaricious, avaricious. I just announced all my tour dates.

They just went on sale this week. It's called the High and Mighty Tour. I will be starting in February of next year. So I will be touring from February through June. So go get your tickets now. If you want good seats and you want to come see me perform, I will be on the High and Mighty Tour. want advice from Chelsea, right into Dear Chelsea Podcast at gmail.com. Find full video episodes of

Dear Chelsea on YouTube by searching at Dear Chelsea Pod. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert, executive producer, Catherine Law. And be sure to check out our merch at Chelseahandler.com. And she said, Johnny, the kids didn't come home last night. Along the central Texas planes, teens are dying, suicides that don't make sense, strange accidents, and brutal murders. In what seems to be, a plot ripped straight out of breaking bad. Drugs, alcohol, trafficking of people. There are people out there that absolutely know what happened.

Listen to paper ghosts, the Texas teen murders on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Podcast Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night. I'm Dr. Priyankawali, a double board certified physician. And I'm Hurricane Dabolu, a comedian and someone who once Googled, Do I Have Scurvy at 3am? And on our show, we're talking about health in a different way, like our episode where we look at diabetes. In the United States, I mean, 50% of Americans are pre-diabetic.

How preventable is type 2? Extremely. Listen to Health Stuff on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast. or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Robert Smith, and this is Jacob Goldstein, and we used to host a show called Planet Money. And now we're back making this new podcast called Business History about the best ideas and people and businesses in history.

And some of the worst people, horrible ideas, and destructive companies in the history of business. First episode, how Southwest Airlines use cheap seats and free whiskey to fight its way into the airline is. The most Texas story ever. Listen to Business History on the Island. IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The murder of an 18-year-old girl in Graves County, Kentucky, went unsolved for years,

until a local housewife, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story. America, y'all better work the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns. Listen to Graves County on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to binge the entire season ad-free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Jenna World. Jenna Jamison, Vivid Video, and The Valley is a new podcast about the history of the adult film industry. I'm Molly Lambert, and I'll be your tour guide on a wild trip through adult films. If we get paid more than the men, we call the shots.

In what way is that degrading? That's us taking hold of our life. Listen to Geno World on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.