Dear Chelsea - Choose the Bigger Life with Gretchen Rubin

Episode Date: March 21, 2024

Happiness expert Gretchen Rubin joins Chelsea to talk about the impact of both novelty and repetition on the human brain, what she learned by visiting the Met on a daily basis, and how using your five senses can help improve mindfulness… and your life. Then: An ex-mormon flirts with psychedelics. A teacher considers trading in her life for a new one.  And a small-town girl wonders if her May-December relationship has been a fetish all along.    * Get your copy of A Life in Five Senses here Neglected Senses Quiz * Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail] * Executive Producer Catherine Law Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert * * * * * The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, Katherine. Hi, Chelsea. How are you? Oh, well, I'm in sunny Whistler. It's very sunny, sunny, sunny, sunny up here. A little too sunny. The snow is melting. And it's sticky, sticky snow.

And I'm officially a daycare runner, opener, starter. There are children everywhere I go. They are at my house. They live with me, not just my two Buddhas, but more children have appeared and the dogs are attracting more and more people. So my life has just turned into, yesterday, one of my little friends came by

to ask for money because she was going to get ice cream and realized she didn't have any. So she said, we know Chelsea has money. That's what she said. And I said, okay, how much do you need? And she said a dollar and all I had was a 20. So I mean, hey, what does ice cream cost these days? I know. And she's like, do you need the change? And I was like, it's really up to you, I guess. And Doug is with his new dog walker today. He got evicted from his last class because he was getting too confident. And apparently Doug is going through adolescence and puberty as an 11th month old chow.

So he is a fucking nightmare. Is there a little marking happening? No, not marking. But he just, well, I've had my rugs cleaned, steam cleaned here twice, which smells worse than actual diarrhea. So I don't know what the point of that is. And then I take, he knows his command. Yesterday I went for a walk at the golf course, which, because it was covered in snow. I can only see a golf course if it's covered in snow. Otherwise it's just annoys me so much. And we were so good with our commands. Come, come, come, Doug, come. And then all of a sudden, he just fucking forgot. And so I'm just screaming, come, and no one's coming. It's so pathetic. And I have my treats and everything. So anyway, I have a new dog walker this week.

Hopefully, she can whip him into shape. She's got him Tuesday through Friday. I was like, get his ass on track. Because I have a whole waiting list of people who want Doug. I was gone for seven days last week on the road and touring. And then I went to the Oscar parties. And then I don't know what else I did. Oh, I went to Deer Valley to ski with my friends there. And I came back and my friends, they had passed Doug around like a party treat. He went from one house to another house like a little dime store whore.

He's a floozy. He is a floozy. And so is Bernice, quite frankly. The kids either want Doug or Bernice. Yeah. And now I call them Dirk and Denise. Those are their cameo names or OnlyFans names, I guess. Well, you're a true mother just like calling them all by the wrong names. That's how it goes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So this has been a stressful winter. I'm not going to lie. Between my fucking house and the bullshit that's going on, it is a disaster. And I just am waiting in Whistler until it calms down so I can go home because I have been so violated and I feel like I have been robbed. Yeah, it's past the point of like, oh, yeah, just a little longer. I mean, when we're going on three years, there's something else. It's three years. I've owned this house for three years and it's still not ready. Yep. Well, I'm glad you have somewhere else to be that is beautiful and fun.

And I'm glad you got to take a break from skiing to go skiing somewhere else also. I know. That was really fun. I love Deer Valley. I love skiing there. And I just love skiing. I mean, thank God I have skiing in my life. It is just such a gift.

It is such a gift to find out what you're passionate about and get after it because it gives me so much joy. I love that. That is kind of half the battle is finding what you're passionate about, like finding what you really, really dig, you know? Yeah. Like if I can just smoke weed, I can't smoke it all the time because of my throat, but if I could just eat cannabis, mushrooms, whatever drugs come my way, read books and

ski for like three months straight, I mean, I honestly would be the happiest person on the planet. Maybe especially if there were no children involved. Well, the children are a nice addition because they're not mine, but it's gotten a little bit carried away. Like I found myself at the kiddie table the other night. I'm like, what's happening here? I saw that picture you posted.

I know. And everywhere I go, they come with me. And I treat them like little adults. So I think they really like that because I can't explain. I'm not being nice to them. Yeah. What do they call you, Auntie Chelsea? No, they call me Chels.

Auntie? I'm not their auntie. Even my nieces. Oh, this is funny. I'm taking my nieces and nephews to Mallorca. I said only a kid's trip for this, this, uh, this summer. I said only a kid's trip, no adults allowed. And so then my brother emails me yesterday and was like, uh, you know, Teddy's 14 and he needs an adult to travel with him, which means his wife doesn't trust me alone with the

children, the children's, I want to repeat that, the children's, nor should she. And so he's like, so I have to come. I'm like, oh, so you're coming. So then my other brother, Roy's like, well, if Glenn's coming, I'm coming. And I'm like, this is exactly the dynamic I was hoping for. No spouses, the kids and my brothers. There you go.

Then it's a party. Then it's a party. Now it's going to be so much fun. Yeah. I mean, if you only have people who are underage, who's going to take all your drugs this year? I don't know. I'll have to find some new customers. Oh, you know what we need?

We need people to write in. We don't want to cover the same kinds of topics each episode. So I guess we want to get into different kind of categories of problems or questions that you might want help with. Yeah. Like if you haven't heard it on this show, like if you haven't heard your question, this is your sign to write in. All interpersonal affairs are of interest.

All interpersonal affairs. If you're having an affair, if you are having a problem with a loved one, a partner, I still think we should do a couples counseling episode. I want couples together to come in for an issue or overall counseling. That would be fun. We're going to do a nice counseling session between my three girlfriends who visited us, right? Amina and Marie and Sydney. So we'll get our counseling on. Definitely couples write in. And I also think if you have like a problem with a friend and you guys want to come on together, that's a great, great thing for us to do.

Yes. If there's any, you know, if you want to come on with your mom or your sister or your brother or anything like that and you want to like hash out an issue, I think this is a good place to do that. Yeah. And the more specific the question, the better, I think, too. Yes. Yeah.

Write in to DearChelseaPodcast at gmail.com. Chelsea, I do have a couple of updates. Brenna wrote in after listening to our episode last year with Katie Couric, and she says, Dear Chelsea, I was listening to that episode the morning it came out, and I was ready for work. As Katie spoke about her cancer diagnosis and the importance of checking yourself for lumps, I thought to myself, hey, I haven't felt myself for lumps in a pretty long time. While I reached down into my horror, I actually did feel a lump in my left breast. My heart stopped. Within a week of listening to that episode, I had gone to the doctor,

received an ultrasound on my breast, had two mammograms, and a biopsy taken. I'm 32 years old. I've never had a mammogram in my life. And of course, like 40 is kind of when you start getting those, so she wouldn't have otherwise gone. I've never had a mammogram in my life and no history of breast cancer in my family, and I was terrified. Luckily, the biopsy came back benign, but it was larger than they thought it should be. So in June, I went back so it could be easily removed. Once it was taken out, they were able to test it and confirmed that the lump and I were both cancer-free and I could go back to not having another mammogram until 40. I wanted to thank you for raising awareness about this. I've known my whole life that I'm supposed to check myself regularly, but that is advice I rarely follow. Without listening

to your episode, who knows when I would have actually felt the lump. I also want to thank you for giving me that push to start therapy a few years ago and for normalizing it. I look forward to seeing you on tour this year. Brenna. Wonderful. Wonderful. Wonderful. I know I need to do more breast self-examinations also now that I'm hearing that. I think you're supposed to do it the week after your period. I think that's like the key time. Yeah, but I got an ablation, so I don't know when my period is. I thought my boobs were getting smaller and I was like liking them. I'm like, oh, they're a little bit like they're just not so buoyant, less perky, like a little bit like, yeah. And I was like, oh, oh, I guess I'm, you know, 49. Maybe they're just

kind of dropping a little bit. But then I got, I don't I guess I'm 49. Maybe they're just kind of dropping a little bit. But then I got, I don't know when I'm getting my period because of that ablation. And then they blew up when I went to the Oscar parties. My dress, my boobs were like gargantuan. And I couldn't believe it. I was like, oh my God, where did these come from? So I must be on my period. But they still haven't completely deflated.

So you're supposed to check a week after your period? Yes, I believe that's correct. So big, I don't even know if I would feel a lump. I think maybe there's less swelling or whatever. So it's easier to find any lumps or bumps. Yeah, when they get little. Okay. Yeah. I was going to ask your ablation.

You went through with that and everything's been fine? Have you had less period? I've never had a period since. Wow. I got, yeah, my uterus scorched. My sister got it done and then told me about it. And I was like, I didn't know you could get that. And so I went right away and was like, scorch it. Let's go. I don't want any more uterine. I guess it gets rid of your uterine lining so that you can't bleed anymore. And believe me, I mean, it was the best thing. I don't get a period. And every once in a while I feel my PMS, but not every month.

It's like every few months. That's incredible. And then you can go and like wear a dress to an Oscars party and you only have the symptom of having big boobs, like no other period symptoms. No, I mean, I don't know. Maybe I'm bitchier, but I wouldn't be able to tell the difference. How were the Oscar parties? Oh, fun, fun.

I went to the Vanity Fair party and then I went to a Gaio series party. And yeah, it was good. I was home by 2, nothing crazy. And then I went to Deer Valley the next morning. Oh, fantastic. Just like an easy pop by. Yeah, saw a lot of friends, saw a lot of people. It was fun.

Good, good, good. Our guest today is happiness expert, six-time bestselling author, and host of the popular Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast. Her most recent New York Times bestseller, Life and Five Senses, comes out in paperback April 30th. Please welcome to the podcast, Gretchen Rubin. Hey, Kelsey. I'm so happy to be talking to you. Oh, nice to be talking to you. So this book was interesting because you discussed the difficulty that you found in forming a meditation practice. And I think that's very common for many of our listeners. A lot of people are struggling with how to meditate. The thing that I found about

the five senses, which surprised me is it's for practically anything you want to do to be happier or healthier or more productive or more creative. We can use our five senses. It's like the Swiss army knife. If you want to calm down, you can use your five senses. If you want to pump up, you can use your five senses. If you want to connect with the moment, if you want to revisit the past, if you want to connect with other people, if you want to calm down, if you want to be creative, if you want to just like, you know, grind it out, All of these things can be done with the five senses. So it was just this thing. It was kind of a perspective I'd never tapped into. And then I found all of these great exercises and approaches that were, you know, right at the,

you know, the tip of my nose, right at hand. I did a huge amount of research. I'm just like the kind of person who always runs to the library. The only way I can get out of my head is sort of through a book. And so part of the fun of it was finding things to try. For instance, Heinz ketchup. We've all had Heinz ketchup. And then what I learned is Heinz ketchup, probably the reason that it is so popular and it's like the secret ingredient in so many popular foods is that it's one of the extremely rare flavors that's sweet, sour, bitter, salty, and umami. It's all five in one. That is hard to do. And so it's just fun to learn something like that and then go taste it. And then you're like Heinz ketchup is amazing. It's so complex. It's so rich, but who knew? So yeah. So part of the fun for me was discovering

all these aspects of the world that I had just, I was so stuck up in my head that I didn't pay attention to them. Okay. I just want to go on the record and say that I fucking hate ketchup. So what does that say about me? I am one of the only people I know that does not, I don't like the smell. I don't like the taste. I don't like the texture. I don't like any of it. Well, then that's, that's a good thing to know about yourself. And that's another thing that really surprised me about the five senses is how we all live in very different sensory worlds. Like a lot of people might say, well, of course, ketchup tastes good, or of course, ketchup enhances flavor. But you're saying that is not my experience. I don't like it. Same thing with textures, you know, just I thought that everybody liked sort of silky textures. I thought they were sort of almost like by definition,

a good feeling. But turns out a lot of people detest kind of a silky satiny feeling. It almost like gives them the creeps. Where do you weigh in on the silkiness question? I don't mind. I like silky. I like that. You like, yeah, that's fine. How do you feel about the candy corn? That's another. No, I hate candy corn. I hate candy corn. Okay. I don't. Yeah. There's a lot of things that I have a violent reaction to. I wonder, do you not like sweet things? I like gummy bears and Twizzlers. Those are my favorite items. And Twix bars.

Those are good, too. Okay. Okay, so you do like some sweet things. But I'm not a normal, yeah, I don't subscribe to a lot of things that people find, like staples. I'm like, I also have an aversion to water. I find that to be very boring and unsatisfying. So, and I really am annoyed that people are constantly trying to force me to drink it. Yeah.

Okay. So let's talk about how the senses though, how focusing on those and harnessing your relationship with your senses actually is an act of mindfulness. Right. Well, as you said, like I've tried meditate, I've given it solid tries. I even did a silent meditation retreat. Did not work for me. But the great thing about the senses is like, if what you want is to cultivate mindfulness, like that is the way we experience the senses.

Like you're experiencing it right here, right now. You can't bookmark it. You can't come back to it later. It's always going to be new. And for a lot of our senses, you can't even keep experiencing it over and over. Uh, For instance, smell, right? Even if you love a smell, if you keep sniffing and sniffing, it just fades away because that's the way, you know, smell is a difference detector. So once something is not changing, we can't smell it anymore. And so turning into your five senses is a great way to cultivate mindfulness. And of course, there is a kind of a mindfulness technique called 5-4-3-2- 1. Well, let's talk about 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Well, I don't really meditate, so I don't use it, but a lot of people find it very helpful. Like there are five things that you see. Do you do

this one? Is this one? No, I don't. No, I don't know this one either. So it's five things you see, four things you hear, et cetera. So what was it about meditation that was so tricky for you? Yeah. I mean, whatever other benefit people were getting, I was not getting. And one of the things I've really come to believe is that no tool fits every hand. And that whenever somebody says, this is the best way, or this is the right way to improve your habits or to make yourself happier, it's like, well, maybe that works really well for you. And maybe that works really well for a lot of people. But if it doesn't work for me, let me try something else. And there was no need to just sort of persist in something

because everybody tells you it's the right thing to do if it doesn't work for you. So I keep trying it because of all these friends are like, oh, it's so, you know, you have to try it again. And of course, people tell me that the very fact that I don't benefit from meditation means that I need it all the more. But I'm like, there's other things that feel more productive and more enticing to me. So let me spend my time and energy on those things. But I'll probably try it again. Yeah, I do think it's so interesting because meditation, quote unquote, wasn't a good fit for you. And yet you wound up writing a book about the five senses and like achieving mindfulness kind of that way. And then also gratitude journal wasn't

something that you really connected with. And yet you have like your happiness journal, the one sentence a day sort of happiness journal. And that for me feels very similar and feels like your gateway into those things. No, exactly. And that's a great point. It's that we can all achieve the same aim, but we might find different ways to achieve it. So I was deeply annoyed by a gratitude journal, but a one-sentence journal did the same thing for me, but in a way that felt right for me. For all of us, there's no one right way to go about these things that's really figuring out what do I want and what's the right way for me. Because if you don't like candy corns, candy corns aren't going to make you happier. Even if somebody else is like the highlight of my year is when the candy corns come out, you know, it's like, okay, well, people

are different. So can you talk a little about what you did discover works for you with regard to your five senses? Oh yeah. So many things. One thing I did was that I started, I was going to do it for a year and I've done it ever since, which is I go to the Metropolitan Museum every day. I'm so fortunate. I live within walking distance of the Met and I go every single day. I'm very interested in sort of repetition. I think a lot of people wouldn't like to do the same thing over and over, but I love it. So that's a big thing that I did. Another thing that I did, Chelsea, I'll ask you this. When you really need to focus, what sound environment works for you? Silence, music with words, music without words, same song over and over for eight hours, cacophony, like a train station or busy coffee shop, like busy home. What works for you when you really

want to focus? I would say I err on the side of complete silence, but I am also able to focus. And this is because of the hours of like I've put into meditation. I've definitely noticed a major uptick in my ability to focus within chaos. So if I am at a coffee shop or if I am on a plane, I can also harness the same kind of focus. My desire is to have quiet, but if there's music on or if there's talking, I can also go in and just, and just focus. So that's not something that I was able to do for a very long time. I was very easily distracted. Now the distractions are more, you know, your phone, social media, you know, you hear a thing on your phone and you're like, oh, let me go. So I've just, I've picked up habits

where I leave my phone, you know, in a place where I'm not going to access it. But yes, I'm able to harness my focus in most environments, but I would prefer silence. Yeah. Yeah. And the same way. Well, speaking of smartphone, one of the things I looked at is how can I use my five senses to help me disengage with my phone when I want to? So one of the things you mentioned, the classic, which is just put it somewhere out of the way so you can't get your hands on it. That works.

Another one is to turn off notifications because they're so distracting. My phone is on silent all the time. And I don't understand how people can deal with just like these random beeps. I find it immensely distracting. And here's another thing that a lot of people don't know about, which is you can turn your phone to grayscale so that it's only in black, white, and gray. It's like your grandparents' TV set instead of in full rich color. And it's much harder to use your phone. It's actually more difficult to use it. And of course, it's much less interesting when all the photographs are in black and white and all the beautiful colors are gone. And then your phone isn't engaging in your senses the way it's trying to do. Of course,

it's cleverly engineered by the most brilliant people to try to hook you in every second. So we can use our senses to foil that as well. Okay. So how do you use your five senses to ground yourself more in the present moment? Well, of course, the five senses are just a great way to be present in the moment because we have to think about like, what am I seeing? What am I hearing? What am I smelling? And one of the things I found is that a lot of us have a neglected sense. Like there's, there are certain senses that we really, we really appreciate. And so we're wanting to have adventures with that sense. We turn to it for comfort and pleasure. We use it to engage with other people. We want to learn about it.

We want to, you know, we're really appreciating it. But then there are the neglected senses, where there are ones where we aren't using it for mindfulness and we aren't paying attention to it. Maybe we're only paying attention to it when we're annoyed or irritated, or we want to avoid the downside of it. And so it's great to know your neglected sense because that's where you have a lot of low-hanging fruit. That's something that you can turn to and say, well, how could I have adventures? Or how could I connect with other people? Or how could I get more comfort and pleasure out of it?

So I actually created a quiz where you can, you know, on my website where you can find out what is your neglected sense. And then from that, figure out how you could tap into it to be happier. And what about people who are struggling to maintain a level of happiness or are constantly thinking about like the next negative thing that could happen? Like they can't sit comfortably in their happiness. Yeah, there's a very persistent belief that if we rehearse disaster or unhappiness, we'll somehow offset it. So I think for some people, there's only almost like a feeling of magic that if I think about it a lot, somehow it won't happen, which of course that doesn't work like that. And so I think for people who face that challenge,

it can be very helpful to say, okay, well, let me just take a breath. Let me just look around, really look at the sky, really hear what I'm hearing, really smell. I live in New York City, so it's very smelly. And I find that just like walking down the street, I'm like, what actually am I smelling? Like maybe I'm walking by a hair salon, so I'm smelling that hair salon smell, or I'm walking by a hardware store. The hardware store smell is one of my very favorite smells in the world. And so just taking a moment to dial into your body like that a lot of times can help people manage that anxiety about what's going to unfold in the future. Going back to what you said about going to the Met every day, you talk a little bit about the difference between something that you're experiencing with a lot of repetition and sort of noticing the nuance when you see the same thing all the time. Can you talk a little bit

about what you learned about repetition versus novelty and how it affects different people? This is fascinating. What the research shows is that people who do novel things tend to be happier. Even things as kind of elemental as going to a new restaurant for dinner or going to a different neighborhood. So there's definitely a huge role for novelty in happiness. But I also think that, you know, you can't overlook the pleasures of repetition. And I think people are really different. I think some people really love repetition and familiarity and other people are, they're sort of like, if you could do anything every day, why would you waste it going to the same place over and over? It seems like a wasted opportunity. But I've always been really fascinated by how things change very gradually over time and doing something over and over.

And I assume that I was very idiosyncratic about that. But ever since the book came out, I've heard from a ton of people where they do exactly the same walk with their dog every day. And they enjoy seeing how this one tree changes over time. Or they'll go to a river and take a picture at sunset every night. And like, they like doing it over and over and over again. So I think it is something where people are different. But what I found is things change much more than I thought. Like I went into it thinking like, oh, you know, this is basically going to be the same every day, but there's so much change. Like when you are able to appreciate the subtleties and I just think that

doing something over and over and over and especially something like a big experience like visiting a museum a lot of times I don't know about you but you have this feeling like well I have to make the most of my time right I have to prioritize I have to be efficient it's like if you're doing something every day it's like you don't have to be efficient. You get all, you can just waste time. It doesn't, no day matters. And so for me, it was, and it was just this chance to just completely get out of my head and into this beautiful space. And so I just never stopped because I love doing it so much. Yeah. And I also wonder, you know, you have talked about how focusing on your senses has helped you change your relationship to yourself. But I wonder if it affected your relationships with your kids, your husband, your friends, your interpersonal relationships.

No, 100%. And it's a great way to connect with other people. Now, of course, we know this from like what is the classic thing? It's like you go out to dinner with your friends. And that's a great way to connect through a sensory experience. But you can do a lot of things. Like I went to a sound bath with a friend. I had a flavor party where I had all my friends come over and then we did. Well, one of the things we did was we tasted ketchup, which would not have

been maybe not everybody would have enjoyed it as much as I did. And we did taste comparisons, like three different potato chips and three. I wonder what it's called when you hate the smell, taste, texture, like all of my senses reject ketchup. Yes. Okay. It's not even like one sense. Like I don't like the taste. It's all encompassing. Do you like the color? I think it's a nice color. No, because I know what that color comes with. Okay. Okay. Okay. You know, you know what you don't want. What about ketchup based things like meatloaf things that have a lot of ketchup? Yeah, I can have those, but again, not my fit, not my favorite, not your favorite, but I mean, even that is fun at a taste party where you find out like, Oh, okay. This friend of mine that I've had for years hates ketchup. And I never knew that

or, um, we were all reminiscing about the candy that we ate as kids. And it was like, but there were all these regional differences in what kinds of candies like we wanted as children. And it's really, I did dining in the dark with my family. So it is a great way to connect with other people. And you can think about, yeah, we could go for a hike outside. We could go to dinner, but maybe we want to do something that's more different. That's going to tap into our senses in a different way. Yeah. My friend and I went and I wrote about this in one of my books. We went to a restaurant actually called Dining in the Dark. Don La Noire, it was called in London. And you eat in the dark and you order in the dark and you're supposed to heighten your experience and the taste and all of those things. Okay. When I did it, everybody clearly was very suspicious that we were going to be fed something that we wouldn't otherwise eat.

And so I think everybody was very apprehensive. I think I might have enjoyed it more if I kind of known what I was getting into. What was your experience? What did you think about that? Yeah. I wasn't that impressed with the food. It was more of like a, it was more of a heightened sense of not being able to see where you are, what you're eating, who you're with, who's looking at you. No, I kept reaching out to touch my other family members because I didn't feel oriented toward them. Right. Yes. It's very disorienting. So it's interesting. It's very,

but again, it's like, it's very memorable. It's so different from what we would usually experience that like, you know, for both of us, these experiences happened years ago and we have a clear, I mean, I certainly have a clearer memory of that than a thousand other dinners that I went to with my family. So yeah. So doing again, it's something novel, so that makes it more interesting and it's dialing into our senses in a way that's really fun. And also the thing about the senses is every, you know, you can do it so that everybody experiences it together. They all have their opinion. So someone was telling me that at a big family, like, you know, Thanksgiving or Christmas or whatever, they would buy, you know, this bizarre ice cream flavors. You're like, who wants rosemary and thyme ice cream?

Like you're intrigued, but like who wants to like get it? Two more things I can't stand, rosemary and thyme. Right. So they would get all the bizarre, the cream corn, all the strange ice cream flavors, and then they would just pass it around and everybody would have a spoonful or two, and then they would talk about what they liked or didn't like. And it was just like a three-year-old can talk about it. A 93-year-old can talk about it. Everybody's sharing this experience. It's kind of fun. It's playful. And it's a way to bring people together through a sensory experience in a way that's unconventional, but really fun. Great. Okay, we're going to take a break and we're going to be right back to take some colors. Inside you, two wolves are locked in battle. One thrives on fear and anger and doubt. The other, courage, wisdom, and love.

Every decision, every moment feeds one of them. Which wolf are you feeding? I'm Eric Zimmer, host of The One You Feed. I've been there, homeless, addicted, and lost. I know the power of small choices to turn your life around. On this podcast, I sit down with thinkers, leaders, and survivors to uncover what it takes to feed the good wolf. This podcast saved me.

It's like having a guide for the hardest parts of life. The wolves are hungry. What will you feed them? Listen to The One You Feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 2025 is bound to be a fascinating year. It's going to be filled with money challenges and opportunities. I'm Joel. Ooh, and I am Matt.

And we're the hosts of How To Money. We want to be with you every step of the way in your financial journey this year, offering the information and insights you need to thrive financially. Yeah. Whether you find yourself up to your eyeballs in student loan debt, or you've got a sky high credit card balance because you went a little overboard with the holiday spending, or maybe you're looking to optimize your retirement accounts so you can retire early. Well, How to Money will help you to change your relationship with money so you can stress less and grow your net worth. That's right. How to Money comes out three times a week, Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays for money advice without

the judgment and jargon. Listen to How to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, y'all. I'm Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, host of Therapy for Black Girls, and I'm thrilled to invite you to our January Jumpstart Series for the third year running. All January, I'll be joined by inspiring guests who will help you kickstart your personal growth with actionable ideas and real conversations. We're talking about topics like building community and creating an inner and outer glow. I always tell people that when you buy a handbag, it doesn't cover a childhood scar. You know, when you buy a jacket, it doesn't reaffirm what you love about the hair you were told not to love. So when I think about beauty, it's so

emotional because it starts to go back into the archives of who we were, how we want to see ourselves and who we know ourselves to be and who we can be. So a little bit of past, present and future all in one idea, soothing something from the past. And it doesn't have to be always an insecurity. It can be something that you love. All to help you start 2025 feeling empowered and ready. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls starting on January 1st on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. We are back. Sarah writes, Dear Chelsea, my husband and I have spent the last three years learning about life outside of Mormonism. It's scary and amazing and freeing.

My husband is preparing to go on a psilocybin journey to learn more about himself and his spirituality. I am truly excited for him, and while I don't personally feel called to sit with psychedelics, I want to honor him and his journey. So my question for you is this. How can I show my support and help him prepare for his journey? And how can I get past my own concerns and fully embrace whatever may come for him and for us? Sarah? I would say ask him how he wants to be supported. It sounds like she's not going

to do it herself. So what would he want to be supported? Yeah. And I think, you know, opening a dialogue and keeping that dialogue open about fears or misgivings or things that he's looking forward to or, you know, any sort of, I don't know, maybe some negative feelings that he has attached to it. I would just try to diminish those as best I could as a partner, as a loving partner in support of him, that this is going to be a positive experience. I think the most important thing you can do when you go into these experiences is to be open and to be ready for whatever, and also to have the confidence and the feeling that it's going to be a great experience, like not to go in scared and not to go in with any sort of kind of negativity around it. So I think learning as much as you can about what he's embarking on is going to be a helpful

tool to ballast him and show him like support. And that's pretty much all you can do. You know, I don't think you should belabor it to the point where it's, you know, annoying and like, okay, I need you to talk about everything. Like as much as he's comfortable, I think you make yourself, you make your presence known. I'm here. I want to be here with you and for you. And however that takes shape, let me know what you're comfortable with and let him guide you. And stay curious, as you'd say, like be interested and listen about whatever it is that he's discovering. I think the biggest gift we can give anyone going through anything that is different is to listen,

right? We can listen and listen and listen. And people will usually figure everything out if they're honest with themselves and they're in a place of learning, they are able to talk through most things, you know? And so anything that can spark a conversation or can ignite a conversation that you may have not had yet, you know, is always good to go into new territories and to talk about things that haven't been unearthed yet. Because I think when he comes out of it, there can also be a feeling of like separateness when somebody goes on a journey and they come back because it's kind of ineffable. You can't even describe what happened to you to the next person. And I would say to always try to bridge that gap. Like it doesn't matter that you didn't experience it. You're there to enjoy his experience. I would always just move closer to the person who's going through something to make sure that your presence is felt, your presence is known, and they know you're right

next to them. It sounded from her question like maybe she's feeling a little bit of apprehension about it. Yeah, it did sound like that. What you're saying is don't, like, sort of don't communicate that to him because he'll have a better experience if he's not picking up on your concerns. So maybe it's like confide that to someone else because... It's also not about you, really. It's about him. So make it about him right yeah you both and

Chelsea correct me if I'm wrong but um when you first tried ayahuasca it was sort of like you didn't really feel much is that right I think you both had sort of like not an experience obviously psilocybin is different but not the experience you expected to have when you tried it right yeah I mean I I think I was pulled out of mind because of my friends' reactions to their own experiences. I was with two friends, so that kind of pulled me away. But when I was alone, yes, I was able to feel it. What about you, Gretchen? Yeah, I didn't really have much of an experience either. I threw up three times, so I was like, well, did I just sort of clear it? But I was also in a place that was intense. It's interesting that you said that you

were sort of pulled out of it by a friend because where I was was intensely, intensely cold. And I almost wonder if my body was like, you know what? You can't disengage. You have to stay in your body because it's just so cold. So it is interesting. Like this may be some part of you, like stays in the moment and has to decide, like, can I actually go this route or do I need to stay where I am? That's interesting. But for whatever reason, it sort of didn't, didn't take with me. Oh, interesting. And you didn't repeat the experience? Well, see, I'm, I am a real square. I mean, this is so out of my comfort zone. I'm still astonished that I did it. And I worked up so hard to do it that then I'm like, I did it. And I sort of can't get myself back to that place that I had to work really hard to get to. So I'm really sort of sad that I didn't kind of have a bigger experience because I really wanted to have a big experience. But I don't feel like I have the emotional wherewithal

to do it again. Right. Copy that. Yeah. Well, our next question comes from Kaylin. Kaylin says, Dear Chelsea, Recently, my best friend introduced me to your podcast, and it's helped me reframe so many things in my life. The help you give is so meaningful, and not just to the person you're helping, but all your listeners. My problem is this. I've been doing the same thing my entire life. I'm 28, but I feel like I haven't lived at all. I live in a small town. I met a man 17 years my senior, right out of high school, and married him. We've been married five years now and are happy, but maybe a little town. I met a man 17 years my senior, right out of high school, and married him. We've been married five years now and are happy, but maybe a little bored. I've also worked at the

same place since I was 15, working my way up to a general management position at a franchise. I don't have a degree, so it feels like without going back to school, this is my best bet for income. Within the last year, my husband and I were close to buying a house and it fell through, and so we decided not to do that, but instead focus on things that bring us joy. I think maybe it was a sign that I don't belong in this small town for the long term. My problem now is, now what? Where can I tweak my life to find passion? Do I focus on trying to find a fire in my marriage again? Do I reevaluate my career? I feel stuck as though life is passing me by and

I'm walking blindly through life and I don't want to feel this way in my 30s. I feel like I'm meant for so much more. Kay. Hi, Kay. Hi. Hi, Kay. Hi, this is our guest, Gretchen Rubin. Hi. Okay, so Kay, how long are you stuck in this town for? Do we know? Well, so he has children from a previous marriage. So when they finish school, he wants to keep them in the school district. And when will that be? Six years. Okay. So you're debating or deliberating between infusing some sort of fun and liveliness into your marriage or into your personal life? So I feel like when I wrote in after we decided not to buy a house, and that was really disappointing. And I feel like we were kind of butting heads because we

had to buy a house in the school district and the options were so limited. And I feel like over the last couple of months, things haven't necessarily gotten better. And I was on Instagram just scrolling. And obviously there's a big age difference between him and I. And there was a post of a girl and it said like, if you're a man twice my age and think I'm cute, comment. And he fucking commented on it. Sorry, excuse my language. That's okay. That's the least of our worries. What did he comment? Just hi. And then like a fire emoji. Oh, it's so gross. It's just gross. So are you thinking about leaving your marriage or are you, what are you?

I don't want to, but that whole situation has me like, I was trying to convince myself that six years is worth it. And then we can live this dream. And now I'm like, I feel so disgusted. Almost like I was a fetish. Yeah, I hear you. Wow. I had a completely different suggestion, but this takes it in a new direction.

But maybe to pull back aside from that, I think it's great that you're sort of admitting to yourself that you're feeling restless generally, like maybe in your marriage, maybe just generally, maybe in your work, where you live. And one thing that is helpful to think about, it's a painful thing to think about, but can be helpful is whom do you envy? When you look around, of the people that you know or the fates that you can think of, is it people who live in a bigger city? Is it people who have a more interesting career? Is it people who have a different kind of marriage? Sometimes when we think about whom we envy, it makes it clear about what we want. Because at least from your initial question, it sounds like

you weren't sure even what you wanted or what area was causing this feeling of restlessness. And sometimes what happens is people change what's easy to change or what's obvious rather than the thing that would kind of more deeply satisfy them because it's so hard to know ourselves and sometimes it's hard to face things that are scary or intimidating or upsetting. But now this latest wrinkle seems to have cast the whole thing in a new light. But is that in fact revealing or is that new information? Right. I feel like when my best friend Harry, when he put me onto this podcast, I like binged to listen to it. And I feel like I wanted to start making changes just based off of everything that's talked about just on the podcast alone. And Chelsea being like the kind of woman that she is and like independent and strong. And I felt like I was wasting my time just going through the motions. And I think people pleasing and wanting to just make sure that everything else was good. And I feel like

with work, like I fought for a raise. So that made me feel better at work. And I wanted to put effort into obviously my relationship and my marriage. And then literally last night, this happened and I haven't really seen him. So I decided to stay at my mom's. But yeah, I don't know. I feel like it's the independence part of it, having basically never been single. I wonder if there are some ways that you can inject some independence in a small way into your life. Like, obviously, like you're having this issue with your husband right now.

And I think that's like worth, you know, go have a couple sessions with a therapist and talk through that. But you do seem fairly happy in your marriage. And maybe it's like you start taking weekend trips by yourself. And it doesn't even have to be like, you know, you're going to Timbuktu. You can just go like go to another state, like visit some restaurants. Maybe it's even just like I'm going to take a Friday night and I'm going to go have a date with myself, whatever that means for you. Go have dinner by yourself, see a movie, you know, whatever you

kind of really love to take a drive even, you know, visit a museum or a park that you've never been to take a hike. Before you were here, we talked a lot about novelty and experiencing new things. And there may be some like really simple ways that you can inject novelty into your life that are ways to help you grow as a person, which I think can only help your marriage grow as well. Yeah. And I think something to bring up in therapy, is that something that you can do, bring him to therapy with you? I could try. Yeah. I think you should because you're sacrificing a lot for this marriage and for his situation. So it's a matter of A, respect and boundaries and parameters that you feel comfortable

with that he has to agree to. You've uprooted yourself to be in this life and to be in this marriage and to be beholden kind of to whatever his desires and whims are and his children. So I think you, A, deserve more from your marriage. And I agree with everything else about your personal life and actually investigating ways that you can make yourself happier within the marriage that you're in. And then through that work, taking weekends to yourself, doing some stuff at night that doesn't involve him, you know, joining whatever it is, a book club or a wine club or whatever you're interested in just to kind of like cultivate new friendships. I think if you can do that, you're going to find out more of what you want and what makes

you happy rather than just kind of signing up to this already existing situation that you're in, which is totally workable. You know, it's not like you need to walk out the door and leave all your shit, but you need to pay more attention to yourself and probably less attention to everyone else's needs for a while and invest a little bit in yourself to try to figure out, is this really what makes you happy? Is this dynamic going to make you happy? You said you feel like a fetish. That's not a feeling that's just going to disappear. And his behavior has an impact on that as well. So I think all of this stuff is important. One thing I would add is

another way to think about that is identify the problem instead of it just sort of a vague sense of restlessness and uneasiness. Like what is the problem? Like maybe as Catherine said, you don't feel independent. So what would you do to increase your sense of dependence? Or as Chelsea was saying, maybe you feel like you don't have a lot of strong relationships. So there are things you could do where you could join or start a group, then that would give you more relationships. Maybe you want to invest more in your career. So it's like, okay, I want to make, you know, strides in my career. So I'm going to get some certain kinds of training. Maybe it's really comes down to my marriage. So marriage therapy is really the thing that I need to focus on because sometimes we have a,

like a general sense of like, oh, I feel so burned out or I feel so unhappy or I feel like, you know, I feel stale or I feel stuck. It's like that's, it's hard to act on that because it's vague. But when you're really like, well, what exactly is the problem? When you really, really drill down, then it starts to be feel more possible to take action because you see that there's something very specific. It could be a lot of things, but sometimes just really trying to get to the bottom of what is, is really the source of this might make it easier to imagine what the next step would be. Right. One other thing too, you know, career wise, I know you've been in the same job for like... It's the only job I've really ever worked. Yeah. And I think even though you

don't have a career and you live in a small town, don't sell yourself short. And you and I can offline about like some of the specific things to look into. But I think look at maybe some office jobs around you, some other things. And you don't even have to be like, I'm quitting my job and then I'm going to find a new job. Maybe just get curious about like, what else could I maybe get? I know so many women who are like, you know what? I just decided to ask for like a crazy amount of money at this job I interviewed for. And they said, yes, you know? And so I get curious about like, where could I maybe get hired that like, maybe I don't think I could get hired there, but like, why not send a resume? Tell them that you're your boss's like right-hand person because I know that you are, but like, don't sell yourself short. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like because I've done the same thing basically since I got out of high school,

I don't even really know what kind of skills I have. I feel like I don't even know what sort of jobs I would look at that would like best suit me. Yeah. The thing to cling to and to know and to say in interviews. So she and I talked yesterday about like she has been her boss's right hand person. He knows that he can kind of like leave the store up to her and everything is going to be totally fine. He barely has to come in. That skill is not something you can teach. Oh, yeah. That skill is eminently hireable. That is the skill that will get you promotion after promotion when you decide to go somewhere else. And again, like maybe that's not right now. Maybe you want to go get some more training while you're doing this job that you like

know like the back of your hand. But that skill is the one I want you to focus on with your resume and interviews. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's invaluable. And like, and, and anybody hiring you will be able to recognize that. So don't minimize that. Like you've only had one job experience. You've had one job experience that taught you a lot about being independent and actually picking up the pieces and covering for the owner or covering for the, you know, the head of the company. Like you do have a skillset, so don't minimize that. Exploit it. Like, yes, I can do all of these things on my own. I can keep the ball in the air, so to speak, with your job.

Like, you can do all of those things, and those can all be applied to different jobs. And it's a matter of trial and error in terms of what you're going to find that is interesting to you. And you just have to be laser focused on getting to find that thing. You know, you keep trying. You're not, you can't, after two times times and you're like, well, that didn't interest me and that didn't interest me, I guess I'm done. No, you have to be indefatigable in your interest to better your life. You know what I mean? And the quality of your life, because that

will yield the best results. It always does. When you are laser focused on bettering yourself, it will come. It's like anything else that you pay close attention to. You will sharpen your skills and get better at knowing what you like and what you don't like. And even every experience that you don't like is a step closer to getting to what you do want to do. A trick that can help is give advice to someone else. Imagine that you're talking to somebody in your exact situation because research shows

we're really good at giving advice to other people and it's much harder to take the advice for ourselves. So just write down, what would you tell your best friend if she was in exactly your situation? And then follow your own advice. Be indefatigable doing what the other person is telling you to do, even though it's you. Yeah. Okay. So, Kay, we're going to have you go sign up for three therapy sessions to work

through this. Even if you think let's start with one, no, start with three. That might deal with it. You might find you need more, but get him to agree to three and get curious about what else is out there, who's hiring. And even if you don't think that you can do it, like throw them a resume, see what happens. Okay. I will. Good luck. Good luck to you. Thank you. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Inside you, two wolves are locked in battle. One thrives on fear and anger and doubt. The other, courage,

wisdom, and love. Every decision, every moment feeds one of them. Which wolf are you feeding? I'm Eric Zimmer, host of The One You Feed. I've been there. Homeless, addicted, and lost. I know the power of small choices to turn your life around. On this podcast, I sit down with thinkers, leaders, and survivors to uncover what it takes to feed the good wolf.

This podcast saved me. It's like having a guide for the hardest parts of life. The wolves are hungry. What will you feed them? Listen to the one you feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 2025 is bound to be a fascinating year. It's going to be filled with money challenges and opportunities. I'm Joel. Oh, and I am Matt. And we're the hosts of How to Money. We want to be with you every step of the way in your financial journey this year,

offering the information and insights you need to thrive financially. Yeah, whether you find yourself up to your eyeballs in student loan debt, or you've got a sky-high credit card balance because you went a little overboard with the holiday spending, or maybe you're looking to optimize your retirement accounts so you can retire early, well, How To Money will help looking to optimize your retirement accounts so you can retire early. Well, How to Money will help you to change your relationship with money so you can stress less and grow your net worth. That's right. How to Money comes out three times a week, Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays for money advice without the judgment and jargon. Listen to How to Money

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, y'all. I'm Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, host of Therapy for Black Girls. And I'm thrilled to invite you to our January Jumpstart Series for the third year running. All January, I'll be joined by inspiring guests who will help you kickstart your personal growth with actionable ideas and real conversations. We're talking about topics like building community and creating an inner and outer glow. I always tell people that when you buy a handbag, it doesn't cover a childhood scar. You know, when you buy a jacket, it doesn't reaffirm what you love about the hair you were told not to love. So when I think about beauty, it's so emotional because it starts to go back into the archives of who we were, how we want to see

ourselves and who we know ourselves to be and who we can be. So a little bit of past, present and future, all in one idea, soothing something from the past. And it doesn't have to be always an insecurity. It can be something that you love. All to help you start 2025 feeling empowered and ready. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls starting on January 1st on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, our next question comes from Colleen. Colleen says, Dear Chelsea, I've been a teacher for 20 plus years, most of them in my current school district, but I'm thinking about a change. Last year, I got into hot water for being, quote, too inclusive. Unfortunately, this seems to be the direction my

district is heading. Another problem is that I've been asking for a change of assignment for six years, but instead of reassigning me, they hired brand new teachers to fill those positions. Not to mention how challenging the students are post-COVID. I'm feeling defeated and burnt out. It may seem obvious that I should leave, but here's my dilemma. I'm at the top of the salary scale, and the benefits are excellent. If I can make it through 12 more years, I can retire at 57 with a really good pension and benefits. My dream is to work for a nonprofit, but the pay is a joke, and I won't have the safety nets that I have now.

Great health care, sick bank, bereavement leave, etc. Hi, Colleen. Hi, Colleen. Hey, Colleen. Hi. Hi. This is our special guest, Gretchen Rubin today. Hello. Hi. Well, I'm of the school that you have to find your own happiness. And I also think when you make a decision that's setting yourself in motion in a different direction It really doesn't matter which direction you choose It matters that you are married to the decision that you make and that you're committed to it

And I feel like that's where a lot of happiness comes from is knowing that you have the ability to make that kind of decision It's a strong one. You're saying okay. I'm done with this stability. I'm done with all of this. I am going to trust myself and bet on myself in moving forward. Obviously there are other people to consider here, but I do feel like your personal happiness is paramount to anything else that you're providing for your family. As long as you are not, you know, subjecting them to abuse, neglect, and all of the other negative things that can come with pursuing. I don't mean being selfish in your pursuits. I mean, being self-fulfilled in your pursuits. So how do you look at that? Like, how do you look at this whole framework of what you put in that letter and what your husband says and his need for stability

or his want for stability versus how you're feeling? You know, I tend to be kind of anxious. So I do appreciate the stability that I have. And just knowing that, you know, I could take a personal day to be on a podcast if I need to, like, you know, if things come up, I have kind of that steady, you know, employment and income and all that. But at the same time, you know, there's some days where I, you know, employment and income and all that. But at the same time, you know, there's some days where I, you know, cry on my way to work, cry my way home. You know, I just feel so frustrated that I'm kind of being held back from helping kids in the way that I think they need to be helped, but maybe something's better than nothing. Well, I think you're, you're probably mourning the loss of your potential,

right? Yeah, absolutely. And so that is one of the most important ingredients that a human being can give themselves is actually like fulfilling your own potential and becoming what you, you know, dreamt you would become when you were a little girl. Well, one thing I would offer is that sometimes it's easy to fall into a false choice where it's like, I either choose stability and stick with a job I really dislike for the next 12 years, or I risk everything and follow my dreams. Whereas in fact, it's like, are those the only two choices? You said that you've tried for six years to get another, you know, to switch? Like, are there other things that you could do that would keep the parts that you like, the stability and the benefits and everything, but would allow you to get away from the things that you don't want? Like, are there more avenues within what you're doing now

that would take you closer to the things that would make you happier and away from the things that are bringing you down? Because it's not like, stay where I am or leave everything. what, what are the options in between? Maybe you've exhausted them, but maybe you haven't. Also, you said your dream is to work for a nonprofit. Sometimes we have an idea of the way something is and it is that way, or sometimes it's not that way. So maybe one thing you could do is to volunteer or something and get a sense of what it's really like, because then it probably will be clear like, wow, this is really worth a big risk because it's exactly what I wanted. Or maybe you're like, wow, it's actually, there's a lot of issues there too. Like, are there ways that you can test it out in a halfway point? Because money can't buy happiness, but it can buy a lot of

things that buy happiness. And one of the things is security and not having to worry about money. So it is a big concern to not leave lightly. You know, you want to make sure that you're signing up for what you expect. If you do decide to make that transition. I don't know how much you know about the landscape of where you might go. I do volunteer with some local organizations that I do care about. And I know there are some frustrations in those things as well. There's always something. Yeah. There's always something. Yeah. No, and I love that idea of seeing what else there is in

your current environment. I mean, maybe it's even like, I don't know if kids are who you want to work with as far as a nonprofit goes, but maybe it is like creating an ancillary program within your school that you help run. Or maybe it's even taking a leave of absence for a year and diving in and seeing like at the end of the year, you can decide, is this what I really want to continue doing? Or do I really like want to go back and make it to my pension? Another question I think is really helpful when you sort of feel like you can't, the pros and cons, just you just kind of can't think your way through it

is to say, choose the bigger life. What is the bigger life? Because it might be like, well, really the bigger life is like having the freedom and having the security and knowing what I, you know, knowing my schedule and like, actually that's the bigger life or the bigger life is like,

no, I want to step away from all that and towards something that I'm really passionate about. And, but sometimes, sometimes I found that like, I'd be completely perplexed. And then when I think, well, what's the bigger life, it becomes much more obvious. So that's a question to consider. That's great. Because, you know, one of the things my husband will say sometimes is, you know, look at all the things you're able to do now, the way you're able to donate your time and your money that maybe wouldn't be available. It's so easy to take things for granted when we have them and we only

appreciate them when we lose them or we think we might lose them. So you might even do the thought exercise of like, imagine your future self two years from now, had you done that, maybe go through the calendar year and think like, well, what would life be like? Because it is a very big decision. Yeah. I do think something people neglect as well is both the soft and the hard costs to continuing to do something that like makes you feel awful every day, like crying on your way to work. You know, that's not only an emotional cost, but it's also like maybe you're doubling up on therapy because, you know, because you're feeling so awful about it and like how you're spending your time, you know, what your work is doing to your insides. So like there are hard costs associated with that as well. There are health costs often.

There are mental health costs. So I think that's something to weigh as well. Well, Chelsea, anything else we want to say to Colleen as she makes a decision here? I mean, yeah, you know, I would really just sit with yourself and really try to listen to what is going to be the best outcome for you and not make any rash decisions, but really like kind of investigate and really listen to yourself. You know, your relationship with yourself is so important and sometimes we get confused about what that means. But I mean, being truly happy in this life, I think is like a great pursuit.

I mean, we only get this chance. So you may as well make the most of it. You know, you don't want to have regrets when you're older. You don't want to have regrets when you're dead or dying or sick or any of that. You want to think, wow, like I'm proud of who I was and I'm proud of like the chances that I took. So I would say take that with you. And obviously you're not going to do anything crazy

or like, you know, it's not like you're going to become like a skydiver. It's not like, you know, your thoughts and your feelings are so rational. And now it's like time to really examine them and get to a place where you are confident in making the next step, where it's not a question. It's actually like the only, it's the only answer. So does, is that helpful at all to you? Yeah, it's a lot to think about. And, you know, everyone I've talked

to is, you know, there's, there's the, like you said, the pros and the cons and my happiness is important, but you know, will I get that? Will I be able to be happy without some of the other things that come along with that stability piece? So kind of hoping you'd just tell me to do. We just decide for you. Well, you know what you, what you could do sometimes is you flip a coin and then if it's like, if you're like, no, I want to flip again. And you're like, oh, well then you know what you want because one way you're like, oh,

I'll take heads. But then you're like, no, let's do two out of three. It's like, okay, you know, now you know what you want. Because one way you're like, oh, I'll take heads. But then you're like, no, let's do two out of three. It's like, okay, now you know what you really want. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Or also give yourself a timeline. Say like, okay, if in six months, I'm still feeling this way and I just can't stand it, then I'm not going to renew for the next year. I'm going to look for something else. Or just be looking for the other thing. And when the right thing comes up, then you'll know. Thank you. And is there another position that you could get? I mean, maybe you're not going to get your top of the pay scale, but that you would have other things that are important to you too. Like again, the false choice, it might be, maybe you can get some of the things

that are important to you in a new position as well. So maybe the sacrifice isn't as great as you might expect it to be in terms of scheduling freedom, which sounds like it's very important to you. Something could come up so I can hang around and keep my eye open for something new and see what's around in my current job. I think you want to be told to leave your job, don't you? I think so too. I think you should also just send an email out to like your closest friends and people that you trust say like you're looking for a career change. And if anyone, you know, and like cast a net to like see what pops up

because you never really know. And people don't, they underuse that. Your whole network of people are there and you never know what somebody has, you know, for you, maybe an opportunity or they know someone, or they just heard about a job that may be of interest to you. But I think as long as you put all your feelers out there, it's like when they, people talk about trying to meet a guy and no one's doing anything about it. It's like, you have to be, you have to be forward facing. Like you have to be activated in the direction that you want to go to get some results. Someone's not going to knock on your door and be like, do you want this job?

It's perfect for you. Be productive about it. Yeah, and that's great advice. Research shows that we're often more benefited by loose ties because the people who you have strong ties to basically know the same things you know. But it's like the friend of your cousin or that guy that you used to work with 10 years ago who you ran into at the grocery store. These loose ties are often where you find new opportunities because they're connected to worlds that you don't already have access to. So this idea of casting a very wide net and kind of mentioning it broadly is really, really useful. That's a very consistent finding in the research. Okay. That's definitely something I hadn't the research. Okay. That's definitely something

I hadn't thought about. Yeah. That's great. Okay. Well, keep us posted too. Let us know what happens in the next few months with you, Colleen. Okay? Okay. Good luck. Thank you. Thank you so much. I love you all. Thank you. Okay. Okay. We're going to take a break and we're going to be right back. 2025 is bound to be a fascinating year. It's going to be filled with money challenges and opportunities. I'm Joel. Oh, and I am Matt. And we're the hosts of How To Money. We want to be with you every step of the way in your financial journey this year, offering the information and insights you need to thrive financially. Yeah. Whether you find yourself up to your eyeballs in student loan debt,

or you've got a sky-high credit card balance because you went a little overboard with the holiday spending, or maybe you're looking to optimize your retirement accounts so you can retire early, well, How to Money will help you to change your relationship with money so you can stress less and grow your net worth.

That's right. How to Money comes out three times a week, Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays for money advice without the judgment and jargon. Listen to how to money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Inside you, two wolves are locked in battle. One thrives on fear and anger and doubt. The other? Courage, wisdom, and love. Every decision, every moment feeds one of them. Which wolf are you feeding? I'm Eric Zimmer, host of The One You Feed.

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Listen to The One You Feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey y'all, I'm Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, host of Therapy for Black Girls, and I'm thrilled to invite you to our January Jumpstart series for the third year running. All January, I'll be joined by inspiring guests who will help you kickstart your personal growth with actionable ideas and real conversations. We're talking about topics like building community and creating an inner and outer glow. I always tell people that when you buy a handbag, it doesn't cover a childhood scar. You know, when you buy a jacket, it doesn't reaffirm what you love about the hair you were told not to love. So when I think about beauty, it's so emotional because it starts to go back into the archives of who we were, how we want to see ourselves and who we know ourselves to be and who we can be. So a little bit of past, present and future all in one idea, soothing something from the past.

And it doesn't have to be always an insecurity. It can be something that you love. All to help you start 2025 feeling empowered and ready. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls starting on January 1st on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, well, thank you, Gretchen, so much for your insight on happiness and remaining that way

and pursuing it and we appreciate your time oh well thanks so much I so enjoyed the chance to talk to you and to your callers okay take care thanks so much okay guys so for stand-up my next two shows in Vancouver are March 29th there There are still tickets available for March 30th in Vancouver if you're in the Vancouver area. So get your tickets before they run out. That's March 29th is sold out. March 30th tickets available. And then I'm coming to Salt Lake City on April 4th and I'm coming to Denver, Colorado on April 5th. Tickets are still available for those two. Maricopa, Arizona is April 12th and And then Brooks, California is April 13th. And we added a second show in Sydney.

And we added a second show in Prior Lake, Minnesota, which is now going to be May 24th. We added the Santa Barbara Bowl, which is so fun. I performed there last year. That's August 17th, the Santa Barbara Bowl. We added a second show at Santa Rosa on August 2nd. And we added two dates in Hawaii, guys. I'm coming to Hawaii on July 19th to Kahulu? Kahuli? Oh, shit. I know I'm saying that wrong. And then I'm coming on July 20th to Honolulu. And oh, I just added another date on August 1st

Auburn Washington so and all my Australia and New Zealand dates are up and I will be announcing a European tour shortly so I will be coming there and I'm coming to Oklahoma I have two dates in Oklahoma May 3rd which is my mother's birthday, Norman, Oklahoma, and May 4th, I'll be in Thackerville, Oklahoma. So Oklahomians, Oklahomans, Oglohomes, come. Bye. If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email at dearchelseapodcast at gmail.com, and be sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert, executive producer, Catherine Law. And be sure to check out our merch at ChelseaHandler.com. Joel, the holidays are a blast, but the financial hangover, that can be a huge bummer.

If you are out there and you're dreading the new statement email that reveals the massive balance that you may have racked up, well, you could use our help. That's right. I'm Joel. And I am Matt. And we're from the How To Money podcast. Our show is all about helping you make sense of your personal finances so you can ditch your pesky credit card debt once and for all, make real progress on other crucial financial goals that you've got, and just feel more in control of your money in general. You know it. For money advice without the judgment and jargon,

listen to How To Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you want a shortcut to the best version of you? Here it is. Feed the good wolf. I'm Eric Zimmer, host of The One You Feed. Every week, I talk to brilliant minds and brave souls about the art of small, powerful choices. Our listeners say it all. This is a lifeline. Transformational. The best antidote to a bad mood

I've ever heard. Join the pack and start feeding your best self. Listen to The One You Feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, y'all. I'm Dr. Joy Harden-Bradford, host of Therapy for Black Girls. This January, join me for our third annual January Jumpstart series. Starting January 1st, we'll have inspiring conversations to give you a hand in kickstarting your personal growth. If you've been holding back or playing small, this is your all access pass to step

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