Dear Chelsea - Finding Love in Your Second Act with Jennie Garth

Episode Date: December 19, 2024

Jennie Garth is in the studio with Chelsea to chat about getting married for a third-and-final time, how her daughters’ relationship with her has changed as they’ve grown, and the last time she and Chelsea cage-danced in Mexico.  Then: A new girlfriend thinks it’s fishy that her boyfriend meets up with his ex.  An actor worries his career may stall out.  And a sister is bereft when her brother gets back together with his ex… who cuts her out of their lives forever.  * Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail] * Executive Producer Catherine Law Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert * * * * * The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Transformational. The best antidote to a bad mood I've ever heard. Join the pack and start feeding your best self. Listen to The One You Feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Joel, the holidays are a blast, but the financial hangover, that can be a huge bummer. If you are out there and you're dreading the new statement email that reveals the massive balance that you may have racked up, well, you could use our help. That's right.

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podcast is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why the bathroom door doesn't go all the way to the floor what's in the museum of failure and does your dog truly love you we have the answer go to really no really.com and register to win 500 a guest spot on our podcast or a limited edition sign Jason bobblehead the The Really Know Really podcast. Follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Dani Shapiro, host of the hit podcast, Family Secrets. How would you feel if when you met your biological father for the first time, he didn't even say hello? And what if your past itself was the secret and the time had suddenly come to share that past with your child? These are just a few of the powerful and profound questions we'll be asking on our 11th season of Family Secrets.

Listen to season 11 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Decisions Decisions, the podcast where boundaries are pushed and conversations get candid. Join your favorite hosts, me, Weezy WTF, and me, Mandy B, as we dive deep into the world of non-traditional relationships and explore the often taboo topics surrounding dating, sex, and love. That's right. Every Monday and Wednesday, we both invite you to unlearn the outdated narratives dictated by traditional patriarchal norms. With a blend of humor, vulnerability, and authenticity, we share our personal journeys navigating our 30s, tackling the complexities of modern relationships, and engage in thought-provoking discussions that challenge societal expectations. From groundbreaking interviews with diverse guests to relatable stories that will resonate with your experiences, Hi, Catherine. Hi, Chelsea. How are you? Greetings from my winter wonderland. It's

snowing, snowing, snowing. I'm happy, happy, happy. I love your background when you're there. It's just like beautiful snowy trees. I know. I love coming into my house and seeing my whole podcast set up at my dining room table. So if you have to eat anything, which I never sit down to really do anyway, I just stand at the kitchen counter and eat. And then, and I had a phone call the other day and I didn't know how to disentangle any, I had a, sorry, a Zoom. And I didn't know how to disentangle

all of the podcast equipment. So I just did it like I was doing a podcast with my headphones on. And everyone's like, you don't need headphones for this. And I'm like, I know, I know I don't. I mean, you know what? Go above and beyond whenever you can, right, Chelsea? Always, always.

My new book is ready for pre-order, everyone. It's called I'll Have What She's Having. You can pre-order it now on Amazon. And they can find live meet and greets, right, on your website? Oh, yes, I'm doing some live events for my book. It's very exciting. It comes out February 25th on my 50th birthday, everybody. I'm doing some live events for my book. It's very exciting. It comes out February 25th

on my 50th birthday, everybody. So help me celebrate. And I have two shows left this year. I have New Orleans at the Mahalia Jackson Theater on December 28th. And then on December 29th, I am in Atlanta. So if you are in those areas, get your tickets because I am wrapping up the year. Some good movies, you guys. I've been watching lots of movies. Yeah, what's good? Conclave is awesome. That's Ralph Fiennes. Oh, I cannot wait to see it. I'd like to have sex with him. And he is so good in that. That's a great movie.

Another one is Baby Girl. Nicole Kidman's movie is really good. Yeah. That's really good. She just is so brave. She does everything. She does. Yeah, she's like basically dry humping herself on the floor. What else did I see? I saw The Substance with Demi Moore. Very disturbing. Did you? I loved The Substance. You did? I just like cracked up the entire time. It was so like I was like giggling in the movie theater. By the end, everyone was giggling with me. I was just like, it's so overwhelming. But I know two people who threw up when they watched. Oh, no, I'm not weak like that. I don't have a weak stomach like that,

I should say. What else? Oh, but Doug, Doug has been I did discovered bones. My friend brought him a bone. And now he is so funny. He has three bones and he puts them in a basket. And then when people come over, he goes and gets the bones to display his bone collection to all the people that come over. I said, I go, what is he doing? And my friend's like, I think he's showing off his bones.

And then he takes this big bone and circles the whole area and brings it and shows everyone how big his bone is. I'm like, oh my God, Doug. You are so fucking adorable. I would never have pieced together what he was doing had someone not told me. Oh, my God. What a cutie. I know.

He's so funny. I love that he has, he puts them in a basket. That's incredible. Yeah, he has it like, and he hid one in the couch the other day. I'm like, no, thank you. And I mean, he goes, he hides it and then he checks. He circles around for like three or four times to make sure it's there. He is such a dog. He's got a big personality. Yeah, he does. He goes, he does have a big personality. I have a

great dog walker here. He takes him out for like two or three hours. I'm like, thank God. Well, and he needs that too, right? Because he's like, he's a snow dog. Like he's got all that hair. He just jumps into the snow, buries his face in it, and then wiggles his body around. He'll do that for two hours. I mean, he's so lovable. Well, I'm so glad you're having so much fun. And we have a really exciting guest today that we recorded with in LA. Yes.

Our guest today is an actress, a designer, and host of the podcast, I Choose Me. Please welcome Jenny Garth. Okay, Jenny Garth, here you are. host of the podcast I Choose Me. Please welcome Jenny Garth. Okay, Jenny Garth, here you are. I'm here. I'm late. We're in her car still. She just pulled in. You're late. I'm late. We're all late. The 405 was 405-ing. It was a lot. The traffic in Los Angeles is so not even worth discussing

because it's so disappointing on every level. I was telling my friend the only time that I don't hit traffic is when I land at 5 p.m. to go home. And 5 p.m. you would think is the worst hour. And for some reason, when I land at 5, I get home in 30 minutes. And when I land at 1 in the afternoon on a Monday, it takes me an hour.

I'm like, this town is so stupid. First of all, they need to build like a double-decker highway somewhere or everywhere. Or a sky trail or like, I don't know, some sort of. Public transportation. It's a little late for that, I think. It's a little late. I'm going to opt for a flying car.

Okay, Jenny, you have a lot of things going on. You have I Choose Me, me, I Choose Me Again, and then I Choose Me. I love that you're choosing yourself so much. It's a message we all need to hear. I know. Well, tell me about it because, okay, so you have a live event coming up too that I want to talk about at the iHeart Theater, which is on January 11th. And it's all about women and women choosing themselves. It's

about female empowerment. It's about feeling good about yourself and feeling strong about making decisions that benefit yourself. Right. So let's start with that. Okay. Yes, I'm very excited to put this event together. It's my first. This is my inaugural event, and I hope to be able to do it in other cities. That's my goal. And it's just about bringing a group of fabulous women together to converge and share and inspire one another.

I found in going to events like this or in being in groups of women that I don't know, so empowering and so insightful. And just like they fire me up and it makes me want to be a better person and do better for my own self and my own life. And I'm very excited about it. So what led you to, I mean, I feel like we probably have similar stories in like awakening our desires to please ourself rather than go around pleasing others. But you probably have a little bit of a different background because you are a mother. You've been married three times, right? You're on your third marriage. Hopefully this will be the last.

Yeah, that'd be nice. That'd be nice. Well, third time's a charm, I think. I think even if it doesn't work out, it will be my last. Great answer. Great answer. So what led you to, did you start therapy? What happened to, when did you become more in touch with yourself and more in touch with helping other women become in touch with themselves? I think it started when I had my divorce from my second husband. Peter. Yeah, Peter. We were together for 17 years. That was the last time I think I saw you,

was with Peter Facinelli at my birthday in Cabo, like my 33rd birthday or something. I was trying to remember the last time I saw you. And that can't have been the last time I saw you. No, I don't think it was. But that was significant because I just remember dancing in a cage in Mexico. Yeah, there was a lot of cage dancing on that trip. It was like it was it was my early days at Chelsea lately. And we decided, I decided to just throw a fiesta in Mexico and everyone flew down and we had like, I don't know, 150 people there and we got blottoed all weekend. It was fun. It was very, it was very fun. So anyway, I think after that, that divorce sort of turned into my awakening of like what, who, how, all the things, you know, because you're just sort of flattened and I didn't know which way was up for a while. And it took me a great, a great period of time with

a lot of therapy, a lot of just searching. I'm a very curious person by nature. So anytime, you know, someone would say, come to this, you know, gathering and we're going to learn about this. I'm there. I'm ready with just an open mind. And so I think that was the beginning of like really trying to figure out who am I, if I'm not this wife or if I'm not the matric of this family or if I'm not, I mean, I was still the mother of our three daughters, but they would leave me every other week. And so then I would be left alone with just me. And I had no idea who that person was because I was always busy fitting or fulfilling someone else's needs. How did that, because I think for some people who go through divorce and then they split their

children up, like for some people, it's a huge party. They're like, oh my God, I have some- Free time. Free time. And I have an opportunity to have my own identity again. And other people, I think, feel more lost when they don't have their children all the time. So which was it for you? It was both. At first, I felt lost. I remember just it was agonizing

when he would take them away from me. And I think it was even more agonizing because there was another woman that they were going to be with with him. And it was just really not fun for a good minute. And then it became like, hey, look, I have free time. I can focus on my own needs. I can do what I want. And it was just like this experience that I had never had because I had a kid when I was 23 years old. That was when I first started and I was working

all the time and always being on schedule and running the ship. And so I was like, wow, a whole week of me time. And then it just started to like fall, like, what do I want to do, you know? So what was that period of time for people who are listening, who are experiencing that or going through a divorce that's traumatizing

or upsetting, which most divorces are, right? I mean, it's kind of unusual to go through a divorce and be like, that was a good, that was great. I guess that's a conscious uncoupling, but even a conscious uncoupling isn't fun. I don't think so. I guess that's a conscious uncoupling, but even a conscious uncoupling isn't fun. I don't think so. I don't think a divorce of any kind can be called fun. But yeah, I started traveling on my own by myself. I went to Bali on a women's excursion where I knew no one. And I went to San Miguel de Ando and did some just soul searching and fell asleep in the back of a cab in Mexico and woke up in San

Miguel. I was like, wow, thank you God for keeping me alive. But- You're like, wow, am I going to another Chelsea Handler birthday party? It could have been. But just like really getting so, so quiet with myself and not partying and not being around a lot of people from my past, but just really being alone. And that was like eye-opening for me. Yeah. I think that's true for everyone. I feel like the biggest telltale sign for people who are in need of that are the people who are so scared to be alone, right? Your first reaction is like, I don't want to be alone. I don't want to be alone. And I talk about this in my book too, my new you, it is so important. That is where the truth

is, when you can be alone with yourself, and find yourself and find out who you really are, and what you're really interested in, when no one else is impacting your decisions. Yeah, like, what do you like to do? What do you want to do? What brings you closer to yourself, and actually not doing anything but being with yourself which many people who haven't done that don't even understand what that means it's like what do you mean and it's like actually sitting outside and looking at the trees for an hour and a half not talking not reading not looking at your phone but actually just being with yourself and nature is where you find out, oh, this is a different kind of

vibration that I'm tapping into. Yeah, it's the best feeling. I recommend it to anyone. Just go be alone for a minute. So out of all of this and out of like your self-work, every time you went, you would get more in touch with yourself or become more, yeah, more deeply aligned or attuned to? I would just be, I would feel myself settling into who I was because also being an actress and being an actress so young, you are thrown into other people's shoes. You know, you're living other people's lives on the daily, all day long as you act. And then they're like, okay, bye, we're wrapped. And you leave and you're like, wait, where do I go? What do I, who do I talk to? What do I do?

Should I go to the bathroom or should I eat dinner? I don't know. So there was a lot of just me figuring out myself. And I think it was the best work that I've ever, you know, the best time that I've ever had is that growing. And then I started to like date. Everyone was like, you gotta start trying to just date people.

And I was so against it. I said, I'd rather lick the bottom of my shoe than go out on a date with somebody. But I ended up dating just random people, all different types, really trying things out that I had never tried as far as different types of guys and just seeing what I liked and what I didn't like. And I was able to really determine like, this is what I want in my life. My life is so good. I'm so self-sufficient.

I can be on my own. I love myself. But what kind of person do I want to allow back into my life? And so I was able to get clarity in just exploring, you know, and trying different things. And so that led you to your husband now that you're with. Yes. able to get clarity in just exploring, you know, and trying different things. And so that's, that led you to your husband now that you're with. Yes.

And you guys also, you guys were separated for a while, right? And what was that? Can you talk about that? Oh my God, we got married in like five minutes. How long after you met did you get married? Three months we got engaged, six months we were married. Okay. And it was like a big wedding and all the girls and everybody was like, okay, let's jump on board this train. They were used to, I can make some quick decisions,

let's call them. And they were used to that. And so everybody felt good about it. And everybody liked Dave a lot because nobody doesn't like a Dave. There's no Dave that people don't like, I don't think. And he's really special. He's a good guy. He was very young. He's nine years younger than me. And I remember telling him, I see so much potential in you. Don't say that to a guy. They don't want to hear that. But I didn't mean it in a condescending way. I meant it in like, I see what you're going to grow into. And I love that. Like, I love who you are right now, but what I see for your future and how that connects with my future, I think it's going to be great. So I was really investing in that relationship just emotionally

and with, you know, with my time. And a year into it, he realized, oh shit, I'm in too deep. I have three stepdaughters all of a sudden. I have four female dogs all of a sudden. I live in the hills all of a sudden. He lived in an apartment in Silver Lake and was a bartender. And he just stepped into this life that he thought looked really great. And yeah, it was really fun and exciting, but it was a lot and it was too much for him. And he, we know that fly, the flight, flight or freeze, fly, right. Fight, freeze. He flew, I froze, he flew. And he flew for a year and we proceeded with divorce, all the paperwork. He had the paperwork in the back of his truck. I think he might still have it, honestly.

It's like a big manila envelope full of paperwork. And we were ready to sign. It was like two days before we were signing and we got together one last time just to talk it out and realize like, I think he had a lot of time to realize like a relationship isn't just fun and sparkly and rainbows. It is work and it takes commitment and you have to not only work on the relationship, you have to be willing to work on yourself. And for me, I need a person that is always wanting to grow and evolve and move forward. Like that's how I am. And I get really bored if I'm stagnant. I like to move. I like to shake things up all the time. And so he just had to really kind of accept those terms and realize if they were going to work for

him or not. And I think he ultimately was like, you're my person. And I know this isn't going to be easy, but let's try. And so we did. And we're still together. That's amazing. It really is. Like, I don't know how that happened. But we worked. We went and started, you know, going to therapy individually and figuring out our shit on our own so that we could come together and share it and grow together in that way. And when you guys met, like, the two days before you were going to file for divorce, what were your intentions going into that meeting with him? Were you ready to call it or were you still hopeful that you guys could remedy the or rectify the relationship or situation? In most instances, I'm usually not a good breakup. Like I hold on tight. I attach and I

get like, I feel like, what can I do? How can I fix this? I don't want to be a failure. And I certainly didn't want to be a failure in this, my third marriage. Like I was like, that was one of the big things that I had to get past letting down of my girls. You know, there was so many things that I had to get past. So in the beginning, I was very, um, just trying so hard to make it work all the time. And I kept getting met with just like a wall. He was not there. And the more I tried, the taller that wall got. And so there came a time when I just stopped trying and I realized I have to let go. He's not an option for me anymore. And I would repeatedly tell myself, like when I would start to think of him every five minutes or,

you know, be emotional or feel the feelings. At some point, I had to say, he is not an option for you. So move forward. And I had to just kind of tough love myself. And in doing that, I got so strong and happy with my life. And of course, that's when it happens. Then knock, knock, knock. Hey, let's meet up. Yeah, but that's the art of letting go. Like that's another great example of not holding on so tightly to things when you do release it and back into quote unquote the universe. I don't know why I'm saying quote unquote because we are in a universe.

But things will come back to you if they are meant for you. Like once you let it go because we all have, we attach to ideas all the time that we think are right for ourselves you know whether it's a relationship whether it's a job whether it's an experience and as soon as you realize something isn't going to go the way you envisioned it going is when you can let go

of it which is the only way to really you know which is hard to practice but it's proven like it's proven scientifically even that when you let go and release of something in your emotionally, that's when it does come back to you. Yeah. I had that horse poster up in my room. It was like, let it go. If it comes back to you, it was meant to be, you know, you know, if it doesn't, it was never yours to begin with. Right. Yeah. So I think that, and that's weird too, because now there's so much discussion about not manifesting, but it's a little bit more than manifesting, like thinking about what you want in your life and visualizing it. And then they say it happens. Like if you have just a clear definition in your mind of what you want,

it happens. And I think that's really true when it's just you, like setting yourself up for something. But I think when you put those expectations on a relationship, it's different because there are two energies involved. And so maybe you want different things. Maybe you both have different visions. You guys have to get really clear on, is the vision that you see for your future mutual? And also, but when you get your energy flowing in the right state, when it's like in sync with the universe, you are going to attract other energy that is like that. Right. And so then that takes out the kind of equation of making sure you're on the same page, because you kind of what you put out is what you get back. Yeah. So did your girls notice a big

transformation in you? Like when you started doing the work once you guys broke up? When you two broke up with Peter and how long was it in between the two husbands? Oh, God. Eight years maybe. Oh, okay. That's a long time. I can't remember. But yeah, my girls have seen me, I think because I was so young as a mom, they've seen me go through that divorce and they've seen me just at the bottom of my barrel and they've seen

the worst. So they knew that, okay, this is going to be hard going through another breakup. They were very helpful, but also at the same time, like, let me do my thing. They would go to their dads and not worry about me. And I tried to keep it really like compartmentalized for them. It's just such a fascinating thing to me to think of being a mother and dealing with all of that stuff. Right. Like mothers don't get enough credit for the fact that they're living

through their own personal life. Yeah, they're humans. And you're also having to be a parent and be the person with all of the answers to your children. Yeah, that's the thing. And we talk about, my youngest actually said to me one time

she was being an asshole. And I said, we separated for a while. And she came back to me. She's like, mom, I'm really sorry. I just kind of realized that you're living your life for the first time too. You have no idea what you're doing. And I was like, exactly. I have no idea what I'm doing.

I'm making this shit up as I go. And I'm hoping it works out. And anytime they come to me for advice, I really do take a minute and think about it because I don't know. Sometimes I don't have the answer and sometimes I don't know. And that's how humans are. And so it's about like getting quiet again, going back to that and just letting the messages come to you. And if you're willing to listen and receive them, then you have some sort of guidance going forward. Once you get through things, they're never just gone forever.

It's always just sort of one of the fibers of who you are. And I think that because I've had so many crazy experiences and so many fibers that make me who I am, I can really relate to a lot of different scenarios. And I think my girls feel comfortable turning to me to talk to me about things that maybe they wouldn't normally. I certainly didn't feel comfortable talking to my mom about certain things. So that's what I just keep trying to make sure that I'm a person that they can go to, whether it's good or bad or ugly. We're in it together. And also we're alive during a time where that is the norm rather than the, you know, exception. People are always like, God, everyone's too open.

It's like, you can't be too open. There's no such thing. Yeah. I mean, that's how we're all learning and growing. That's how we're all becoming more aware and open. Like, I think it's a great thing that everybody's talking about everything now. So your clothing line is me and it's available on QVC. Oh, I hope you make a fortune on QVC.

I was just with some, I just was with some woman who sold her makeup brand that launched on QVC and she sold it for $1.2 billion. Oh my God. So I hope that happens to you. Amazing. I'm just really having a great time. I never saw this coming. I didn't, I never wanted to be a fashion designer. And actually, when the opportunity came to me, I was like, why me? I don't think I can do this. And everybody else does this, not me. All those thoughts came pouring in. And then I had to really just set those aside and say, why not you? You've been wearing clothes since you were born. You've been fitted all your life by different stylists and wardrobe people. So I just sort of said, I always say, why not me? Let's keep going, keep going, pushing myself forward to whatever the next challenge is. And I learned that very recently that why not me? That's the force that keeps me going. And I'm doing it with my middle daughter, Lola. She's designing with me. She wants to be in the fashion industry

and she's in college for that. So it is an amazing gift to be able to work with her, develop a brand from the ground up with her and run it with her. So it's just like, it's the gift that keeps on giving. And when I see women wearing our clothes, I feel so just proud and they feel good about themselves in them. And that's the ultimate goal.

And so what kind of clothing is it? Like, it's for everybody. Yeah, it's everyday, very wearable street wear that it's not too high fashion. It's always comfortable. And I really work to work with sustainable materials. And so, you know so we have big goals within our company and things that we're working on. And it's just really exciting to be at a place where there's that kind of future. Yeah, that is exciting. It sounds like everything's going great.

Yeah. The clothes are really comfortable and people are loving them. And I feel confident about talking about them and encouraging people to look and feel their best every day. And so where can people find them? They obviously have QVC. Exclusively at QVC. Oh, exclusive. Okay. And we have, yeah, Me by Jenny Garth or JennyGarth.com.

It's all there. Okay, great, great. On that note, we're going to take a break and we'll be right back with Jenny Garth. 2025 is bound to be a fascinating year. It's going to be filled with money challenges and opportunities. I'm Joel. Oh, and I am Matt. And we're the hosts of How To Money. We want to be with you every step of the way in your financial journey this year, offering the information and insights you need to thrive financially. Yeah. Whether you find yourself up to your eyeballs in student loan debt, or you've got a sky-high credit card balance because you went a little overboard with the

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Go to reallynoreally.com. And register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason Bobblehead. It's called Really, No Really, and you can find it on the iHeartRadio app, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Good people, what's up? It's Questo, Questlove. And Team Supreme and I have been working hard to bring you some incredible episodes of Questlove Supreme with guests you definitely don't want to miss. Now, one of the things I love about this Questlove Supreme podcast is we got something for everybody,

every type of musical ever. We enjoy speaking to the people who are the face of some movements, some people you've seen on stage or TV or magazine covers. But we also love speaking to the folks who were making it happen behind the scenes, and they paved the way for those that followed. You know, keystones to the culture. This season, we've had some amazing one-on-one conversations, like I'm Pete Peel chatting up with hitmaker Sam Holland,

Sugar Steve chatting with the legend Nick Lowe, and I've had pleasures of doing one-on-one conversations with Willow, Sonata Matreya, Kathleen Hanna, and The RZA. These are conversations you won't hear anywhere else, so make sure you go back and you check those episodes out, all right? Listen to Questlove Supreme on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about.

It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. You know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout? Well, that's when the real magic happens. So if you love hearing real, inspiring stories from the people you know, follow, and admire, join me every week for Post Run High. It's where we take the conversation beyond the run and get into the heart of it all. It's lighthearted, pretty crazy, and very fun.

Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. We are back. We are going to start with some colors today. Excellent. My favorite. We have live people. Jenny, did you pull up in a pickup truck today? I did. Oh, I love that. I don't have a car. Very unexpected. You don't have a car. I don't have a car. I gave my car back because it was a Tesla. And I don't like him anymore. I gave my Tesla back too. He just creeps me out. Well, what do you mean he just? Of course he creeps you out. He's so creepy. Oh, I couldn't do it. Yes, I gave mine back too. I was like, get it away from me. I mean, I can't imagine how many people have returned their Teslas.

Yeah. So I don't even have a car now. That's my husband's car. And he had to get a ride to work with his business partner. Oh, that's funny. Yeah. But I love driving a pickup truck. I feel like a badass. We saw a like tan brown, like the worst color brown you can imagine. Shit brown?

Cyber truck today. It was like diarrhea brown. Diarrhea brown. I didn't want to say it. Was it one of those? The cyber truck. You know what? I got to say, I am fascinated yeah you know what i gotta say i am

fascinated by those and i secretly want one just like i secretly wanted a hummer when it came out but it's just because i like big things that protect you that that car though doesn't even seem like you could see out of it you can't you can't see out the back there's like a camera spaceship yes well benji is our first caller and he says, Dear Chelsea, I've been a performer since the age of five when I did my first church skit and haven't been able to get rid of that itch ever since. But I did get rid of the church part. I went to college for a BFA in musical theater and spent the majority of my 20s performing at Universal, Disney and regional theaters in Florida. I got to work on some incredible projects, but after some time, I found myself regretting not ever shooting my shot in NYC. So I took the

leap and moved there in 2017. I felt like I was starting to make headway with opportunities and casting directors after a few years of diligent auditioning, but then the pandemic hit and everything came to a grinding halt. I guess my question is, how do you handle working through life when you feel your career might be growing stagnant? I was in a serious relationship that ended and it seemed best to move back to Florida where I felt I had more success, but now I'm currently working an office job and feel unfulfilled. Is it shameful for me to give up on my dreams of performing to work a job with some consistency? Adore you always, Benji. Hi, Benji. Hello. Hi. Hi, you look like a performer. Oh, that's me, yeah.

This is our special guest. Jenny Garth is here today. Hi. Oh my gosh, hi. So nice to meet you guys. Nice to meet you. Where are you, Benji? I'm in Daytona Beach, Florida,

but Orlando, Florida as well. I go back and forth. Okay. So you've been working a desk job most recently? Yeah. Yeah. And you feel unfulfilled. Is there any way you can do some performing or some stage stuff on the side while you're working a desk job? I don't know why my voice just did that. I work at Universal and I recently got back working there from being away for a few years. But unfortunately, I'm union actor equity. That's tricky.

So it's hard to do like fun side projects because I have to do it union. And so in order to do performing, I have to basically do a union gig versus, you know, like I want to do like a fun, you know, community theater show or just something fun for that just to fulfill that need. Yeah. And union jobs are a little more time consuming, right? A little bit more commitment. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. And now that I'm doing a full-time office job, it's hard to take time off to try to do a full show because the show requires so much commitment. So you're not going to be able to do both things at the same time, basically. And are you, And what about financially? Are you able to, I mean, it sounds like you have to work, right? Yeah. So you have to work 40 hours a week doing the day job.

And then, you know, a lot of people do like side fun projects and that kind of thing. But because I'm a union, either I have to drop the union and kind of commit to working full time with the office job and then doing performing for fun or performing full time as a union worker. That's different. Yeah, I mean, it sounds to me, I don't know, Jenny, you'll tell me what you think or tell us what you think. But it sounds to me like, I don't know if the union aspect is as important as your creative outlet. Like if you really want to need your creative outlet and you can't afford to be a full time performer in the moment, you can either you have two choices. You can either focus on work, save up as much money as you can to like focus on taking a break and really going after jobs with that that are within the union and really auditioning and like setting aside, I don't know, six weeks, two months,

three months, whatever you can afford. If you've saved enough money to really just audition or continue your job and then do some non-union stuff on the side, which is, I sounds, and I think is more easily attainable. That's kind of where I'm leaning towards.

Yeah. There's like a badge of honor to get union, to fight for it, to get to the projects where you earn enough credits so you can get union but you know now that i'm not performing full-time and committing to that full-time like it's i feel like i'm unfulfilled right i hear you do you have any at all opportunities that you where you could quit your desk job and do a union job full-time and when i move back to Florida, no.

There's only like a couple theaters that have union work. I see. Yeah, it's hard. It's so hard. But I have to say, Benji, you are exactly where you're supposed to be. Even if you're not performing in this very moment, you're doing what you're supposed to do. And I think if you just know that you are exactly where you are supposed to be,

doors will open before you. And then you'll be like, it'll turn into this magical experience that you didn't even see coming. And who knows what will come next if you are just open, if you try your best to stay in a really grateful place. You're so grateful for the job that you have now because it's paying your bills. And you're really open to whatever is out there. I mean, that's all you can do because we all have these situations where we have to pay the bills and there are things out there we'd rather be doing or things that we would love to do more, but you are doing exactly what you're supposed to be doing right now. I also wonder if there are some other creative outlets that you could take advantage of, you know, and expand your horizons with that. Like maybe it's joining the Gay Men's

Chorus if you're a singer or joining a club and doing some creative writing. I want to join the Gay Men's Chorus. Me too. That's fun. It's the most lovely thing. There are other things that you can do outside the union that are not, like i said like performing at the theme parks aren't necessarily union or non-union you can do that if you're union or non-union so that's what i'm trying to do right now and i am working my way back into it but i just yeah i wanted to know what you guys have your thoughts on that are you committed to staying in florida or is there any thought about going back to new y? No, not necessarily. It was just the path that seemed the best forward. You know, I've got older parents, grandparents that kind of needed help at the time.

And so I wanted to come back to be with family for a little bit. And I've been here for like a year or so. And so I want to maybe pursue going somewhere else after this. Well, that sounds good. I mean, it sounds like you have a lot of options there. Like, I agree with Jenny and like, you know, being very grateful for the position that you're in, you're making money or, you know, earning enough of a living

to support yourself, you are close to your family, make sure you're taking all those things into account. You don't have to constantly be living out your fantasy dream in order to live out your fantasy life. This is what you need to do for the time being. And take our advice about whether to do some stuff on the side that's non-union. I wouldn't really worry about that. I mean, people do that in this industry all the time. People who are union work and non-union jobs. You know, it's frowned upon, but you can people do it. So and if it's a matter of just getting your juices flowing and getting a having a creative outlet, then absolutely do little things on the side. Do some stand up comedy, do some writing, do some singing, do whatever it is that gets you going and makes it feel a little bit like this job isn't the end all be all. It's kind of a temporary thing. And when you're ready to leave Florida or you're ready to look for a more permanent opportunity,

then I think that will also reveal itself. I really appreciate you guys. Thank you so much. Yeah, no problem, Benji. Have fun in Florida while it's still on top of land. It's still not that cold yet. So we're living in the- Don't worry, it's not going to get cold again.

So don't worry. Global warming is here and we're living it. You guys are amazing. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me. I really appreciate you guys. Bye, Benji. Thank you. Bye.

Look how happy he is. And he's not even fulfilling his dreams. And he's in such a good mood. I know, what a sweetie. That's nice. That's good. I'm fulfilling my dreams and I'm ready to fucking kill myself. I asked my sister if she could euthanize me the other day.

I'm like, I'm so tired. You can do that. You can end it when you're ready. Where? In LA? I don't know, but my manager just told me this. Well, you can do it in Oregon, but you have to go through this whole testing situation where you, I believe, I haven't researched it because I'm not, I am sort of serious, but not quite. But not really, yeah.

But when I am, like, you have to be diagnosed with some sort of fatal disease in order to get approved, so that you don't go through the suffering, you can't just, I don't think you can just collectively opt out. Even though, I mean, I do have a cousin who's a doctor and he said, if I really feel that way, he'll help euthanize me. Excellent. Well, our next caller is Adam. Dear Chelsea, I'm a 34-year-old male living in Orlando who's recently out of a situationship and who knows what the hell it was at this point. My therapist lately has taught me the concept of

attachment styles in relationships and helped me realize that I have an anxious attachment style. The guy I was seeing has a dismissive avoidant attachment style. To make a long story short, since 2020, he and I would ebb and flow. However, mostly because he would disappear and be very isolated and not make any contact. He would always say it's because he is tied down with work and he just appreciates his space.

At first, I thought he was just being a typical Orlando gay and had ulterior motives. But nope, he was just too busy putting in long hours at work and taking some me time. However, at random times, he would just kind of show up again and hang around longer and longer each time before repeating the process, mostly saying he needed some time and didn't have the capacity for anything serious. All behaviors I eventually learned of being a dismissive avoidant. Earlier this year, the process repeated itself and this was the longest he had been around. I don't know what it is about him, but I'd always fall for him again and fall victim to the illusion that maybe this time it would be different. While things seemed a bit more serious this time, history did unfortunately repeat itself, and we have not talked since July.

Learning about attachment styles has helped me accept that this will never work, and I am moving on. How do I see the signs in the future and not repeat my mistakes with the next guy? Thanks so much, Adam. Hi, Adam. Adam. Hello, how are you? Good. This is our special guest, Jenny Garth today. Thanks so much, Adam. Hi, Adam. Adam, how are you? Good. This is our special guest, Jenny Garth today. Hello. Oh, hello. How are you? I want to be best friends with him already. I can tell. You guys probably have the same attachment style. Maybe.

I don't even know what mine is, Adam. I think there's avoidant, there's avoidant, then there's anxious, and then there's secure right yeah right those are the three i i think there might be more yeah i think there's for me you know dismissive avoiding kind of stands out because one thing i learned from my therapist is that being in an anxious attachment style i attract da's and so i'm like this is so interesting like i've never really learned about this concept wait he attracts da dismissive avoidance so there's a lot of hybrids i thought he meant like a lawyer you could be cool you could oh yeah you could be anxious avoid it you could be

just avoid it you could be yeah but i think listen first of all the identification of it is your first step once you understand what you are then you understand what you're attracting and you can change your course and the pattern within which you meet men. This guy doesn't sound like your guy, but it does sound like it was a great learning tool for you to understand this kind of relationship so that if you find yourself talking and getting close to someone like this again, you're gonna understand,

oh, this is not my type of person. At the same time, you can also work on your attachment style. Certain people bring out the anxiousness in other people. I'm not an anxious attachment person, but I've had, I've been in a relationship where I was anxious and I was insecure about the relationship, but that was the combination of the two of us together, you know? So you just have to be like alerted in your thinking and aware, which it sounds like you are and that you've worked through this with your therapist, about what your pitfalls are. Then you're more easily able to identify other people's kinds of styles.

I think just by knowing it, you're going to make better choices. You're going to go, oh, this guy is not the kind of guy for me. I have this one guy who hits on me all the time, right? He's constantly blowing up my DMs. He'll show up whenever I'm doing shows. And he's cute. I'm not really that interested. But like, even if I were interested, I understand what his style is. And it's not my style. I'm like, you he comes in and out every couple months. And then it's like full court pressing me. And then you know, in between those months months I'm sure he's got a girlfriend I'm sure he's got other things going on I'm not at the top of his list but then when he sees me or he's reminded of me he's always like trying to say

Chelsea we got to get together we got to go out I'm like I'm not interested in you I can already smell your number you know what I mean and so I think you just have to understand who you are before you can understand who anyone else is and it it sounds like you've done that work. What do you think, Jenny? I think that, yeah, acknowledging where you are and what you want is so, so important. What you want for your future. And because of your experience in your past, you know what you don't want. And so being able to be very straightforward with yourself in those moments of whether it's temptation or you're at a crossroads with choice, you can tell yourself, that's not the life that I want. That's not serving me, the most important person. So I think you're really doing the right

thing by going to therapy and getting this sort of awareness, and it's really going to serve you moving forward. And also, when you meet people, every person you meet romantically is an opportunity to break a pattern. You have an opportunity here to never make this kind of mistake again. I'm sorry, that's not a mistake, but to never date a person like that again. You want to break your own cycles. And I'm really big into that. I like to not make mistakes multiple times, because then you just start to feel like, what's wrong with me? You know, so make that the last type of guy like that, that you date. The next time when you see the writing on the wall, you could be like, no, no, no, this is not for me. And you're going to find someone who's a little bit more where you

are. Someone who expects what you expect and someone who's as communicative and as consistent as you are. Yeah, absolutely. I think it was a good learning experience in the sense that these types of people are very independent. And so it was a good learning experience in terms of like, it learned me to kind of take the moments for me when we were kind of chatting in this situationship or whatever you wanted to call it, but just take some self-care time

and just making me appreciate that independent time. And I think for me, something I'm struggling with right now is that we kind of bonded recently. He kind of slid into the DMs again post-election. We were trauma bonding. And it's kind of reignited another cycle of communication. I'm like, you know, I really don't want to go down this repeated pattern here, but it's hard. I know it's hard, but like, seriously, is it that hard? It's not that hard. When someone's not right for you, there are billions of people on this planet. There are over 300 million people in this country. You will find another person that you are interested in. It's really not that hard to set a boundary and keep it. Yeah. You need to be tough. You need to

be tough with yourself, you know, and just remember that you are the only one that's taking care of you. He's not taking care of you. So whatever's in your best interest is what you have to keep in mind. You got to keep your eye on the prize. And you are the prize. Well, thank you. I appreciate that. Okay.

Well, good luck with everything. Bye. Thank you. Bye. Thank you. Bye. I like good luck with everything. Bye. Thank you. Bye. Thank you. Bye. I like good luck with everything. Bye.

Goodbye. Listen, we're trying. We're trying. I know. We are. We are. You're giving great advice, Jenny. Yeah.

And your voice is so soothing. Oh, I try. Well, that's my voice. I can't do that. No, but it is soothing. It's probably very soothing to your girls. I would imagine they like it. Yeah.

That's a good voice for podcasting. Jenny also has a podcast called I Choose Me Too. Two, I found out. Two different podcasts. Yeah. And I'm producing a third one called I Do Part Two, which is about finding love in your second act. Oh.

We do that one. Oh, that's great. And I do that with Amy Robach and TJ Holmes. Amy Robach. Oh, Amy Robach. Yeah. I know who you're talking about. Okay, great. Awesome. Oh, Amy Roback. Yeah, I know who you're talking about. Okay, great. Oh, part two.

That's perfect for our listeners too. I'm sure there's a lot of women who are looking for their part two. Yeah. Well, our next question comes from Isabel and this is a co-parenting sort of question. Okay. That's you.

Over to you. Yes, I'm on. Isabel says, Dear Chelsea, I'm a 36-year-old woman and have been dating a great guy for six months now. We're super compatible in many ways, and although we've only known each other for a relatively short time, I feel like this could be a longer-lasting thing. There's only one thing that bothers me, and that's his ex. They were together for seven years,

and then they had an on-again, off-again thing for about a year after breaking up, which pretty much only ended when I entered the picture. So they never had an actual clean break. I normally wouldn't care if a partner keeps touch with an ex. I sporadically text with my ex-husband, who was part of my life for 15 years, but we also had a no-contact phase for two years after separating. So clean break, and we both moved on and can be happy for each other now. My boyfriend, on the other hand, has kept in touch with his ex this whole time, and his main reason is that she wants to see their dogs. Sometimes he drops them off at her place, but they've also walked the dogs together, and I always hear about these things after the fact.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the immense love you can have for an animal. I love my cat more than most or maybe all people, but I also think that breakups come with losses, and we can't always get what we want. I have a feeling she's trying to keep a foot in the door by requesting to see the dogs. And it's just a reason for her to communicate with him. I'm not normally a jealous person, but this bothers me. He's also never offered for me to meet her. And I don't think he'd want me to. I've brought this up with him and we ended up having our first fight over this.

Ever since then, he hasn't brought her up at all. So I'm assuming he's just avoiding conflict by not telling me about their dog parenting meetups anymore. I'm not worried he's sleeping with her, but I am jealous that he won't let go of that relationship because on top of everything, they're trauma bonded and I feel like he will never reach this level of vulnerability with me that he has with her.

My question is, how can I open this conversation again without it ending in a fight? I just want him to be honest and I do want to be informed about their level of contact. Isabel. Isabel. Oh, Isabel, the flags. I know, I know.

The flags. I hate to be like, you know, I don't ever want women to act in jealousy or out of jealousy, but there is something that's so codependent or interdependent. I guess we learned interdependence the opposite of codependent a good thing yeah but code codependent that is a red flag like that is like okay he's he has to go be with her and and you're not exposed to her at all that means there is something is he doing it for the dogs or is he doing it but how do you know the dogs drop them

off i don't think the dogs really care, honestly. I don't think dogs care either. If my dog never saw me again, I think he'd survive. Exactly. He'd find somebody else to feed him. Right. I think that that is the biggest thing here. I feel like he's got to put his money where his mouth is.

And if that means that he needs to end a relationship that is not serving his new relationship well, then that's a choice that he has to make. And it's not an easy choice. But if, I mean, you seem to be kind of okay with them being friends, but you just want to be in the loop. Yeah, but being in the loop, you were in the loop and you didn't like it. And now you're out of the loop and you don't like that. So you're not going to like either one. And it's like he's got one foot in his old relationship and one foot in his new relationship is what it sounds like. So I wouldn't be worried about his reaction to you

stating what your boundaries are. Either you have boundaries or you don't. And if you have them, you have to be confident in stating what they are, which is I don't feel comfortable with this relationship anymore. If you do feel comfortable with the relationship, then you just have to accept it and stop asking questions about it. Yeah. It's kind of like it's one or the other. It's black and white, really. Right. And I think if you say to yourself, okay, I'm fine with them being in a relationship,

he knows how you feel now. So he's going to avoid telling you anything about it. And that's worse. That's going to create more tension and more of a chasm between the two of you. And I think it's important to say like, this doesn't feel right to me. Like, I don't think you want me to feel this way. And if you don't care that I feel this way, then that's a bigger issue. Right. The fact that it caused the argument, that's the biggest red flag. Because listen, if I went to someone that I was in a relationship with and I said hey this this bothers me this isn't a man it's not like we're talking about your relative that you have to go see this is an old flame that you're sharing a dog with that you never officially ended a relationship with that doesn't make me feel good that makes

me feel very like I question that and I question your motives for seeing her because is the dog telling you that he needs to see her what what's going on or like drop the dog off and then leave you know what I mean that's really something that's important to you it's just like if it was a kid yeah my ex-husband would drop the kids off and then leave it's not like we hung out I got anything out of seeing him on the drop box together no no long walks together. No, no, no, no. This is, you've got to definitely speak up and fight for your right because this doesn't sound like it's beneficial to you in the long run.

Especially if you have not been exposed to this woman, then that's a secret. If you're not in the relationship, then there's no open dialogue about the fact that you are in a relationship and that she's aware of what the status of your relationship is. So yeah, how you would bring it up again without it resulting in that, I think it's probably going to result in an argument as it did the first time. But I think you

do need to be honest and just say everything we said and be like, listen, this doesn't make me feel good. I don't feel secure. This isn't what I'm looking for in terms of being in a trusting relationship. You just need to put it on the table and you need to define what you want. And if he can't give that to you, then you need to figure out what your next move is. Hit us back when you come up with that. Let's hear. Yeah. Well, let's take a break and we'll come back with one more question and wrap up. Okay, great. We'll be right back. 2025 is bound to be a fascinating year. It's going to be filled with money challenges

and opportunities. I'm Joel. Oh, and I am Matt. And we're the hosts of How To Money. We want to be with you every step of the way in your financial journey this year, offering the information and insights you need to thrive financially. Yeah. Whether you find yourself up to your eyeballs in student loan debt, or you've got a sky-high credit card balance because you went a little overboard with the holiday spending, or maybe you're looking to optimize your retirement accounts so you can retire early, well, How to Money will help you to change your relationship with money so you can stress less and grow your net worth. That's right. How to Money comes out

three times a week, Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays for money advice without the judgment and jargon. Listen to how to money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Inside you, two wolves are locked in battle. One thrives on fear and anger and doubt. The other, courage, wisdom, and love. Every decision, every moment feeds one of them. Which wolf are you feeding? I'm Eric Zimmer, host of The One You Feed. I've been there, homeless, addicted, and lost. I know the power of small choices to turn your life around. On this podcast, I sit down with thinkers, leaders, and survivors to uncover what it takes to feed the good wolf.

This podcast saved me. It's like having a guide for the hardest parts of life. The wolves are hungry. What will you feed them? Listen to The One You Feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden.

And together on the Really No Really podcast, our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor. We got the answer. Will space junk block your cell signal? The astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer. We talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you and the one bringing back the woolly mammoth.

Plus, does Tom Cruise really do his own stunts? His stuntman reveals the answer. And you never know who's going to drop by. Mr. Bryan Cranston is with us today. How are you, too? Hello, my friend. Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park. Wayne Knight, welcome to Really No Really, sir.

Bless you all. Hello, Newman. And you never know when Howie Mandel might just stop by to talk about judging. Really? That's the opening? Really No Really. Yeah, really. No really. Go to reallynoreally.com

and register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. It's called Really, No Really, and you can find it on the iHeartRadio app, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Good people, what's up? It's Questo, Questlove. And Team Supreme and I have been working hard

to bring you some incredible episodes of Questlove Supreme with guests you definitely don't want to miss. Now, one of the things I love about this Questlove Supreme podcast is we got something for everybody, every type of musical ever. We enjoy speaking to the people who are the face of some movements, some people you've seen on stage or TV or magazine covers, but we also love speaking to the folks who were making it happen behind the scenes and they paved the way for those that followed.

You know, keystones to the culture. This season, we've had some amazing one-on-one conversations, like I'm Pete Bill chatting up with hit maker Sam Holland, sugar Steve chatting with the legend Nick Lowe and I've had pleasures doing one-on-one conversations with Willow Sonata Matreya Kathleen Hannah and the RZA these are conversations you won't hear anywhere else so make sure you go back and you check those episodes out all right listen to Questlove Supreme on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. entrepreneurs and more after those runs the conversations keep going that's what my podcast

post run high is all about it's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories their journeys and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together you know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout well that's when the real magic happens so if you love hearing real inspiring stories from the people you know follow and admire join me every week for post run high it's where we take the conversation beyond the run and get into the heart of it all it's light-hearted pretty crazy and very. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back with Jenny Garth.

Hi. Jenny Garth, who chooses, she chooses her, I choose me. Katherine, you choose you. I sure do. I sure do. It's all about choices. Yeah. It's all about choices. Yeah. It's all about us and choices. That's right.

And I do love that you're having like a women's group. Some of the most important decisions in my life have been made after going to a women's group like that, like a meetup sort of thing. And I remember there was one that I went to where I was like sort of toying with moving to California. And it was like a big sort of deal. But I was like, maybe this is what I'm on fire about and excited about. And then the rest of the weekend, all the women were like, you're the one who's moving to California and it was like a big sort of deal, but I was like, maybe this is what I'm on fire about and excited about. And then the rest of the weekend, all the women were like, you're the one who's moving to California. And it like became a truth while we were together. There's so much power in getting women together. Oh, that's interesting. What's like a crazy story that you've heard or an inspiring story that you've heard from a woman? A common theme is not knowing how to choose yourself, having been taking care

of other people all your life or taught to be a people pleaser or put in this position that you aren't able to breathe in or shine in. And I think it's very, very scary to break out of a mold or a box that you've been put in, especially if you're doing it alone. Well, even just our last, the person that wrote in about her boyfriend and the dog and the ex, that's just like, how do I bring up this conversation again without it turning cantankerous? Or it's like, but that's not your problem. Like you're stating what you want. If he gets mad, then that's your answer right there. Like that's, it's such a theme with women not being able to state what you want or stand up for yourself, whether it's on this level or on a like in a level where you're coming out of a marriage and having to like re-identify who you are. Lindsay says, Dear Chelsea, thank you for

your unapologetic, intelligent bravery and unwavering support you show to women everywhere. You're welcome. As a female physician in Texas, I needed some levity and light after the recent election, and I was thrilled to discover you had a podcast. I've been devouring all the episodes. Now for the advice. In short, my brother filed for divorce a year and a half ago, and I advocated for him. He and my sister-in-law have since reconciled, and therefore, they've cut me off. There is severe asymmetry in their relationship. He's devoted, loyal, and golden retriever in human form and she has had multiple affairs, checks the boxes in the DSM for narcissists, and has slandered my brother's reputation to friends as a reason for her cheating. It's hard to capture the events succinctly, but here we go.

My brother's wife cheated for years, denied it. He found evidence. He confided in me plans to divorce her. For one month, we spent many hours texting and on the phone where I learned the details of her behavior. I gave him advice, STD counsel, and also educated him on personality disorders of which she has, I think at least one. The month he filed for divorce, we went on a family trip. And while we were away, she got into his iPad and read every single text exchanged between us. She did a 180 and went from telling him she was miserable in the marriage to begging for him back. It was the first time she admitted to cheating because she'd read in our text that we already had proof.

Prior to that, he'd endured nearly a decade of gaslighting about it. Once there was evidence and she knew lying wasn't an option, she made grand gestures and begged her entire family to emotionally manipulate him into staying with her. So they reconciled. When my brother told me about the reconciliation, my advice was to give it some time, spend some time apart before getting back together. I advised that if she had the capacity to change, that some time apart could give her the opportunity to show with her actions that changes have been made. But my sister-in-law never showed signs of shame, regret, embarrassment, or remorse.

She instead has been on a war path to cut us out of their lives. They've decided to seal the deal with a pregnancy, of course. And two of us siblings have been excluded from their lives because of the advice we gave him a year and a half ago. We dropped it and have only sent loving texts, but those texts are met with long angry texts back demanding we recant our prior advice and make a grand gesture saying we approve and celebrate the reconciliation. We've been the bigger people throughout the entire scenario. The most heartbreaking thing is that my brother has learned to use the tools for aggressive communication and gaslighting now.

So I guess when you live with a narcissist for 10 years, you adopt their methods. So what is my ask? I'm not sure I know. But during the holiday season, this rift has become a huge problem, as you can imagine. They tried to make me unwelcome at my parents' holiday table last year, and this year, the sentiment is more of the same. I've been told by my brother and his wife that the only way we can move forward in our relationship is for me to meet with her so she can berate me for the sentiments I shared

privately over text with my brother. I've told them I won't sit down for that meeting because it's toxic and our conversations were never meant for her. What would Chelsea do? Lindsay? Okay, I'm going to use Mel Robbins advice right here. She has a new book called Let Them. And that's what you need to do. Let them. Let them go have their family and their toxic relationship and let them have their babies who will most likely will hopefully not be toxic. But let them. There's nothing you can do. There is absolutely nothing you can do besides go on with your life.

And it's so sad that you don't have a brother really right now. Hopefully that won't be permanent. But there is no point in getting involved with them in any way. It is so toxic. And now that you have to kind of say goodbye to your brother and the relationship that you had with him. And while that sounds harsh, it's true. Like there's no point. You're going to torture yourself. Yeah. She just needs to step back. Step back. Take care of herself. Obviously, you can't take away your parents. You have your own relationship with them.

And if you have to suffer through them on the holidays, then so be it. But don't get involved in their drama. Don't try to negotiate anything with them. Just back out because your brother needs to understand also that he has been isolated by his wife. Like she is making sure that everyone in his life is not there. For you to sit down for an appointment to get berated is one of the most ludicrous things

I've ever heard. Like, fuck off. That sounds fun. You were his counselor and you were his helper and now you're getting punished for it. I don't understand how he's allowing this to happen.

Well, he's brainwashed too. He's like, you know how women and men alike can do that to women, to other people. Like if you're an easygoing, really easygoing, she said he was kind of like a Labrador retriever or something like that. Like you can easily be manipulated by another person and then kind of get brainwashed by them. It's not dissimilar from being in a cult. It's just one person that's controlling you. And it's all very controlling. Anyone who does that and tries to isolate you from your family, that's abuse, by the way.

And this specific type of behavior in the UK, they call it coercive control. And they've actually just made it illegal. It's not illegal here in the US. But you actually can get in trouble legally for controlling your partner in the UK. That's great. How do they define it? What's the tipping point? I mean, it's these elements of like cutting someone off from their family. And there's a whole lot of

things that go into it. But these like toxic boyfriends or toxic, you know, girlfriends or wives, these sorts of things, there are consequences for it now, at least in the UK. Well, there are consequences to what he's experiencing too, what she's experiencing. He's going to lose a sister, somebody that's always looking out for his best interest. And he's losing more than you're losing probably because he's caught up in this cycle of listening to the wrong person instead of listening to himself.

So that sucks and I'm sorry, but yeah, I would get yourself, extricate yourself from that dynamic. Is there an emotion or a mantra that you would send her in with when she does see them at holidays and has to sort of be civil? It's Mel Robbins. Let them. Let them do their thing. Let them be toxic.

Let them have a dysfunctional relationship. Let them be angry. Let them be abusive to each other. It's none of your business anymore. Okay. And on that note, we're going to thank Jenny Garth for being here today. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you.

I know. It's so nice to see you. Her podcast is Choose Me Podcast. Then there's Part 2 Podcast. Then there's another one. What's the name of the third one you're producing? That is called 90210-OMG. It's a rewatch.

Oh, we didn't even talk about 90210, but we had too much other stuff to talk about. You can also find her clothing line on QVC. It's called Me by Jenny Garth, or you can go to JennyGarth.com and find it. And then what date is your women's group? January 11th. January 11th at iHeart Theater in Los Angeles. Okay, that sounds fun.

It'll be fun. Well, it was nice to see you. Thanks, Chelsea. Goodbye, everybody. Okay, guys, stand-up shows that I have coming up. December 28th, I'm coming to New Orleans right before New Year's, and then I'll be in Atlanta, Georgia on December 29th. And those are the rest of my stand-up dates for this year.

It's over. New tour, new year. If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email at dearchelseaPodcast at gmail.com. And be sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert, executive producer Catherine Law. And be sure to check out our merch at ChelseaHandler.com. Joel, the holidays are a blast, but the financial hangover, that can be a huge bummer. If you

are out there and you're dreading the new statement email that reveals the massive balance that you may have racked up, well, you could use our help. That's right. I'm Joel. And I am Matt. And we're from the How To Money podcast. Our show is all about helping you make sense of your personal finances so you can ditch your pesky credit card debt once and for all, make real progress on other crucial financial goals that you've got, and just feel more in control of your money in general. You know it. For money advice without the judgment and jargon, listen to How to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Do you want a shortcut to the best version of you? Here it is. Feed the good wolf. I'm Eric Zimmer, host of The One You Feed. Every week, I talk to brilliant minds and brave souls about the art of small, powerful choices. Our listeners say it all. This is a lifeline. Transformational.

The best antidote to a bad mood I've ever heard. Join the pack and start feeding your best self. Listen to The One You Feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together, our mission on the Really Know Really podcast is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like

why the bathroom door doesn't go all the way to the floor, what's in the museum of failure, and does your dog truly love you? We have the answer. Go to reallyknowreally.com and register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. The Really Know Really podcast. Follow us on the I heart radio app,

Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Danny Shapiro, host of the hit podcast, family secrets. How would you feel if when you met your biological father for the first time, he didn't even say hello?

And what if your past itself was a secret and the time had suddenly come to share that past with your child. These are just a few of the powerful and profound questions we'll be asking on our 11th season of Family Secrets. Listen to season 11 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Decisions Decisions, the podcast where boundaries are pushed and conversations get candid. Join your favorite hosts, me, Weezy WTF, and me, Mandy B, as we dive deep into the world of non-traditional relationships and explore the often taboo topics surrounding dating, sex, and love. Every Monday and Wednesday, we both invite you to unlearn the outdated narratives dictated by traditional patriarchal norms. Tune in and join the conversation.

Listen to Decisions Decisions on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.