Dear Chelsea - I Disagree with Jessica Tarlov

Episode Date: September 17, 2026

Fox News commentator Jessica Tarlov joins Chelsea to discuss how she tolerates her co-hosts on The Five, what she’s learned by becoming part of the ever-growing community of 9/11 survivors, and how fruitful healthy disagreement can be.  Then: A MAGA boyfriend receives some required reading.  A straight-talking woman wonders when to curb her bluntness.  And a humanitarian struggles with career prospects after the current administration’s cuts.  * Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail] * Executive Producer Catherine Law Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert * * * The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Okay, guys, here are my dates for the High and Mighty Tour. In September, I will be in Santa Barbara, San Diego, New York City, Philly, and New Haven, Connecticut. October is Atlanta, Baltimore, Saginaw, Michigan, Pittsburgh, Toronto, Boise, Idaho, and Spokane. And then in November, I'll be in San Francisco. I'm coming to Salt Lake City, Austin, Houston, Dallas, babies, I'll be there. And then in December, I am closing out my tour in Denver and Vancouver.

So get your tickets at Chelseahandler.com for the high and mighty tour. Hi, Catherine. Hi, Chelsea. How are you? I'm good. I'm having, I'm home. I'm home from New York. I went to the U.S. Open.

I did a bunch of New York things. I did a lot of things. But you went to Laura Lynn Jackson's camp. I did. And you know what? What happened? Everything amazing happened. I actually just got home last night.

late Monday night. I was supposed to leave Sunday, but I had a full planes, trains and automobiles, canceled flight, multiple flights delayed for the next day, hotel situation. But because I had that, I got a whole bunch more signs. So that was really exciting. Wow. Girl, this retreat, so it was at Omega, which is in upstate New York, and beautiful grounds, wonderful place. But it was like 550 people. Whoa. By that, I mean like 500. and 40 women and 10 guys. So it was to all to be with around, have Laurelind Jackson teach them. Yes. And so it was like three days. She does this every year. It's always, I think she's at the second week in September, which it was this year. So you go, it's like you have a little workshop on Friday,

Saturday, Sunday, you have a couple workshops in the middle of the day or like morning and afternoon. And then another one on Sunday. And then everyone kind of heads out. But you're learning how to ask for signs from your loved ones. You're learning how to sort of like channel different energies. But like the coolest thing was just hearing all the signs that everyone was getting and getting some yourself. Like it was really, it was really interesting. There was some guided meditation. You could get like massages and things if you wanted to or extra readings from other people there at Omega. But I got to tell you. So I arrived at Omega and this is this beautiful place and I'm taking pictures, but I was just thinking, like, I wish I was home. Like, I don't know if I should really be here.

I had kind of been wrestling with it for like a couple of days. And I walked into the dining hall. I'm thinking this as I'm walking into the dining hall. And I go get my dinner and I see some women who are about my age who I'm like, okay, I'm going to go sit with them. And I go over. And it was just like, instant connection. There are these three women who I was like, oh, how do you know each other? And it was kind of like, oh, we went to the same college. You're like, oh, that's my sister. I was like, okay, so you two are sisters, you two went to the same college. And they go, well, turned out they were all sisters from the same sperm donor. They found each other as adults, like in their 30s. And they were just like the most incredible women just filled with love,

or was filled with love. I got some signs specifically because I was delayed. So yesterday, I was in like a whatever crappy hotel they put me up in next to the airport, you know, at my like 3 a.m. heading to a hotel after my canceled flight situation. And I'm kind of going through something and I just was like having myself a little cry and feeling really down about it and just feeling like, you know, it felt like something that's like from my ancestors that's like a drive and a wish that I have. And I was just saying like, I need you to make yourselves known and tell me that I should continue with this and keep trying. And a couple days before, when we were setting our intentions for our signs, a telephone popped into my mind.

And I thought, that's silly. Like, why would it be a telephone, like an old-timey telephone? It felt like too out there because there aren't telephones anymore. And also, like, too obvious because we all have a phone right in our hands. So I sort of dismissed it. I didn't even write it down as one of my signs. but I'm like talking out loud to them and I'm crying in this hotel room and then all of a sudden the telephone rings. And I thought like, oh, it's just them like calling to tell me my shuttles here.

And it rings two times and I pick it up and it's just a dial tone. And I was like, okay, I get it. You're there. Thank you. And so it was like so hugely what I needed. And then 20 minutes later, Chelsea. I get a random text from my sister that was just like, she knows that I, you know, when I was growing up, I loved X-Files. So my sister had like seen somebody with an X-Files tattoo and just like send it to me.

And it's got there's a cell phone on it. Do you see that? Oh my gosh. It's got like an all-timey cell phone on it. And then, and then, of course, I go to the airport. My like next flight, like I land in Atlanta. and that flight's delayed. So I'm back at the customer service counter.

And what do I see? But just like 20 phones, like 20 of those like courtesy phones hanging there. Old time phones too. And it's just so funny to me because another reason I had originally dismissed it was like my grandma, I would always call her and talk to her on the phone. And then eventually found out she didn't really like talking on the phone. So it was just like, that can't be the sign from her. her. So anyway, they got through. They got through to me. But it was just like those types of things all weekend. Everyone was getting them. It was so incredible. It was really moving. There were a lot of

people there who were in a joyful place, a lot of people who were in deep grief. And it was just, it was a wonderful time of like connection with other women. So that's wonderful. Yeah. So, yeah, it was really worth going to. Wow. Does Laura do everything herself or does she have other people there? Yeah. So I thought it would be like her teaching a little bit and other people, but she's like teaching the whole time. There's not like a ton of like one-on-one interaction unless she sort of like is called to speak to you. But it's it, you don't really feel like anything's missing because you're just with all these other cool women. Yeah. Wow, I love that.

Yeah. So very well worth it for any listeners who want to go next year, I would highly recommend. I love that. I love that. Okay. Well, great. I want to, yeah, that's awesome. I'm so happy that happened. Yeah, me too. Thanks, Chelsea. Oh, well, I'm glad we're back from New York, but you spoke to our guest day when you were in New York. So that was great. Yes, yes. And I love this woman and I love her book. She's like, one of the only Republican. I'm sorry, she's not a Republican. She's one of the only Democrats that goes on the Fox. Is it the Five? Yeah, the Five. She is the only one. And she just fucking. gives it, serves it up every single day. And she's got a new book out, so I really want people to buy it. She's the liberal co-host of Fox News the Five. Author of the new book, it's called I Disagree,

a great read about how to deal with people in your life that you do not agree with politically, winning arguments without losing friends. And she also co-hosts the raging moderates podcast with Scott Galloway. So please welcome Jessica Tarlove. Hi. Hi. Well, I feel like I know you because I listen to you every week. Oh, that's kind of weird. And I have prepped harder for this interview that I think like election night. Oh, stop it. Well, you're awesome. And I've thought that for a long time. But then when you're going to a conversation that's different than the usual conversations that you have, and especially around a book, which is just such a unnerving experience. And there's so much in a book. And you've, like, oh, my God, I can't believe I told people all these things about me. So I have been re-listening to old

interviews of yours, a recent audiobook. So you've been in my head. Well, you're a real researcher, which is what I learned from reading your book. I mean, I knew that from listening to you every week Unraging Moderates, which actually, I have a question about the title of that because it doesn't feel like you or Scott are moderates. So we got that a lot. We thought that the title was just really going to hit because we launched right before the 2024 election. And Kamala was the nominee. Remember when we thought things could be nice and good? I remember Kamala. And it was Brat Summer, and we had this reprieve from the Biden debate debacle.

And we thought, OK, maybe things will be good. And we're for people that want to build coalitions. And we know that you need to get everyone from progressive lefties to moderate Republicans into your tent to win an election like Biden did in 2020. And Scott, who's a great marketer, was like, what about raging moderates? And I was like, yeah, that gets it because we're reasonable. and we want to build a big tent, but we're also angry because people are angry right now, and that's very in vogue in politics. And then she loses and Trump picks up all of these voters that were typically Democratic voters

and we thought, are we kind of fucked having this title? Because everyone now is saying it's not about being a moderate. It's about being as far left as possible and galvanizing that anger and spirit. So we still like the title and the logo and all of it, but I understand what you're saying. So it's a new definition of moderate, I guess? I guess since the party has moved so far to the left that that moderates is now has a different meeting anyway. Well, yeah. Some people would say we're like Republicans light if you read some of the comments.

Oh, yeah. Well, no. I wouldn't. Yeah. Yeah. Well, imagine naming it raging liberals. Nobody would have listened to you would never get anybody that wasn't a liberal listening to that. No.

So at least you're getting some people from the other side listening to your. Yes. And we try to have guests at least some. Now it's mostly just me and Scott. But when we first launched, it was important to actually have folks from the other side. on. So we had Larry Hogan, who in this Republican Party is basically a Democrat. But I also had, you know, Kelly Aunt Conway on. Right, right. Which you really see the difference between the online world and those who listen because online, it was so much anger and fury about having her on.

And the episode did really well. Same thing having Ben Shapiro. Because people do like to listen to disagreement, thoughtful disagreement, but they want to hear the back and forth. Well, that's your specialty. That is your specialty. Thoughtful disagreement. I mean, You are the only liberal in a sea of Republicans on that Fox show called The Five. And I've watched it a couple times only because you're on it. And I'm very impressed by how you handle yourself. And I know you hear that all the time. You speak a lot about that in the book.

But I think let's start from, I think you start the book talking about learning discourse at dinner and family conversations and your parents and their connection and their marriage. So let's talk a little bit about that and how that shaped you. growing up with parents that were so, A, devoted to each other. Yeah. And who changed careers kind of midway through. Not kind of. They did. All the time.

It was like the liberal arts education approach to life. And I describe it as a frantic Jewish family, which I think, you know, you know about we have less kids than you guys, just me and my sister. But it really felt like there was a constant and sometimes incessant dialogue going on. like no quiet, no peace, but in all the best ways, where every emotion was valid and worth having a conversation about, which matters more when you're five than when you get older. And my parents and certainly my early educators really treated me and my sister as equals and that our opinions and our feelings were valid and worth exploring. And it makes it sound like it wasn't fun.

It was totally fun and we did dance parties and all that kind of stuff. But we were very much given a seat at the table. And they would have friends over who I think probably in their homes, kids wouldn't be at dinner. And it was just the norm. Like, of course, Molly and Jessie would be sitting at the table with us. It's very hero of them. Yes. And you could start dinner later.

You know, we weren't operating on a kid's schedule. We traveled like adults with them. My dad worked a broad a ton. He went from being a lawyer to producing movies and would go on location. And so we would pack up and go live in Johannes. with him, go down to Auckland, wherever it was. And they were like, oh, our tiny friends are coming. And that was kind of it. Yeah. Your dad sounds and your mother both sound like incredible parents. And also, it's nice to read about that kind of relationship that you describe having

with your father and him being so kind of open to the world, open to his own life, open to hearing your opinions and also helping you shape your own opinions. It seems like it was a really big part of who you are. Totally. I've had friends who've read the book say, oh, this is just a straight-up love letter to your dad. And I don't go to therapy, and I probably should. So I feel like I got a lot of that out in the book, about how incredible he was and the kind of example that he set not only professionally, but really personally, my parents' marriage, hashtag goals, for sure, how much they were in love and professionally supportive of each other too. So, yeah, it's not the life I would have expected

that either of them would have had from how they grew up, but they really put their heads together and thought what could be the greatest ride for us and the girls. And then they took us on it, which is so cool. And we're trying now. My husband and I have two girls, but we are not as free as they are. I have to go to a studio in Midtown,

so you're not really packing up and going on the road. So tell us about 9-11. I know your father passed away from tongue cancer. Yes. From 9-11. Yes. But before that, tell us about how your family came together during that time and what your parents had you do. Yeah. So 9-11 happens. My dad is actually in Los Angeles. My sister and I went to school. We grew up downtown in Tribeca right by the towers. We went to school, uptown, Upper East Side and Upper West Side. And I'm sure where were you? I was in Los Angeles. You were in Los Angeles. With your father. No. what were you guys doing? You know exactly. No, I was in Los Angeles. I remember getting that phone call. I think my manager at the time called me.

Yeah, it was pretty early in the morning because it was 9 o'clock here, so it would have been 6 something. And he said, are you watching TV? And as soon as he said that sentence, I was like, oh, no. Yeah. And then I got in the car. It's such a distinct memory.

And you know how the psychologists talk about where you are when things like this happen in your life and what you remember and how memories differ, especially like between two sisters. you can have the same experience and a completely... Which you learn when you're writing a book. My sister was like, that did not happen to you, by the way. Welcome to my life.

Yeah. Well, you have a lot of people to fact check against. Yeah. And my brother's sister were like, that never happened. But then always one sibling comes forward and they're like, actually, Chelsea's right. That did happen. Not always, but most of the time. And I remember driving to my manager's house.

He lived in Culver City. I lived in an apartment in Santa Monica. And I was driving, looking out the window like at the sky, wondering if, like, bombs were going to start descending and planes were just going to start crashing. Because with no idea, I was just going to his house for safety to hang out with his family. Tell me about your experience. Yeah, so it was early on in the day, the school day. And basically a few TVs across the school, you know, like wheeling them into classrooms

to start watching the coverage, you know, Matt Lauer, that kind of stuff. And then the school started to get into a huge panic because they knew we all had to be picked up. but there were kids whose parents obviously couldn't come get them. And then there were the kids who had to go back to the area where the terrorist attack happened and what do you do with them. Right. And so I didn't know what was going on at my sister's school, obviously, at the time. And cell phone coverage was down, not that we had them yet or she didn't have them. I had gotten mine, which I think was a point of contention on a fight in the household.

So one of my best friends' moms actually signed out like 10 to 15 kids. and brought them to her house. And she was trying to make contact with the right parents saying they're going to be here. It was on the Upper East Side whenever you can get here. And my mom couldn't get through to us. And my dad couldn't get through to us at least at first. So he started driving home. And he got to Vegas.

I thought that was just such a sweet thing to read. Yeah. You know, like that he just started driving for the three-day drive that it would have turned out to be. Right. I think he was hopeful that by the time he hit Vegas, he could make contact. with someone and get on a plane. But, you know, airspace was closed. And where was your mom? My mom was downtown. She went out to the street. I grew up on this tiny one block long street called J Street in Tribeca. Yeah. Yeah. And she went to the corner on Greenwich Street and just watched the scenes

of it and didn't see a plane flying in, but it was just, you know, watching smoke and the people panic running the wrong way up Greenwich Street thinking, my God, how is this possible? What is happening? And then how do I get my kids? So she made contact with my sister's school and talked to my friend's mom. And we were able to, me and my best friend who also lived in Tribeca and my sister, we were able to meet up and we started walking home. And we walked down Fifth Avenue just looking at this cloud of smoke with people mostly going in the other direction. And then she was able to meet us. Fourteenth Street was the demarcation of where people who were residents could continue going back down. And so we all just walked home together. We weren't allowed to stay in our house. So we packed up a few belongings.

It didn't make it into the book. My sister really wanted it to. So I'll just tell you that my main focus was my retainer, that I was obsessed with getting my retainer. I had just gotten my braces off. And I thought, I will not survive if I don't have my retainer. I hear you. Do you? Yeah, I'm with you on that. Yes. And I'm obviously channeling all of the other freak out that's going on into this little thing that's supposed to keep my teeth straight, which it didn't even.

I'm going to get imvisaligned soon. But the retainer was fetched. And we went to a friend's house who was a couple blocks north to be able to stay there for a few days. But my mom and my dad was able to get on a plane the next day to come home, they opened up our house. they opened up our house to all the first responders, which was amazing. So you had the fire trucks parked on your block with license plates from all over the country because we were in this together somehow. Like you say, you want to go be with family, you know, with your manager so close to you. And I don't know, there is nothing like that day. No. And the response to it. I think we saw a little bit of it when COVID started. Remember when all of the. nurses, travel nurses, and even people aren't travel nurses, poured into the big cities. It's like the beginnings of COVID and 9-11, except 9-11 hasn't been sullied in the way that COVID has been sullied.

Right. Well, it's so, and I would love to talk to you about it because I was listening to you on armchair expert from, I guess, a year ago, and you guys were loosely talking about it, about masking. And how people did the best that they could with the information. that they had and that it wasn't malicious. And then I work with people who think that it was malicious. Yes. And it's been one of the more difficult political divides for me to battle through, which is crazy that you can have a more sane conversation about abortion. I know.

Than you can about COVID restrictions. A mask. It's like I'll never understand that argument. I don't understand why people would be so upset about having to cover their face. They love masks. Look at ice. Like they're wearing masks all day long. They don't have a problem with that. Why do they have a problem about protecting people? It's like, you tell someone they have to protect other people and they're like, I'm not having it. Yeah. It's crazy. It is really crazy. And one of the only ways that I think I've been able to penetrate that is that my dad was dying during COVID. So explaining to them what getting the vaccine meant because he got vaccinated in a nursing home. So one of the first people that were able to get it, but then you're freaking out because people are dying in

nursing homes and they're keeping them pooled with people who are sick. And until you bring out something that is so unequivocally counter to the argument that they're making it where you would seem so cruel, if you said, no, actually, I still think it's bullshit is the only way to get like some quiet about COVID response. You've heard the chaos. Now you can see it. Do we want to jump right in? Watch all your favorite podcasts from start to finish right inside the free I

Radio app. Make some noise. Wooee! Catch every laugh and eye roll on shows like Bestie Listen. Hey Jonas and Las Culturistas. Now with full video. I'll just leave that there. It's the same hosts and the same chemistry with all the hilarious moments you've been missing right on your screen.

Open the free IHR Radio app. Search video podcasts and tap watch. So wait, where were we? Okay, 9-11 and then the firefighters being at your house. Right. And my parents had done this incredible... conversion. They took a peanut roasting factory that they bought in 1990 for $250,000 and had turned it into our home, which was amazing. And you could never get a deal like that. So the first floor of our

house was an office, a casting office and a bathroom. And so the doors were just open. And there were benches set up and first responders would just come in and out. And we all started delivering lunches and dinners for the people that were out working. So all the restaurants opened up their kitchens. Wow. And you saw Nobu making peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, which seemed, you know, not their usual. I don't know.

But I do remember there was a deli on the corner of Reed Street and Greenwich. And all the other stores were not charging for anything because get over yourself, right? There's just been an enormous terrorist attack, 2,300 plus. people have died. You have first responders from all over the country. Rudy Giuliani's walking around. Hillary Clinton's walking around. Like, what are you doing charging for Lysol wipes or whatever? But this deli kept charging and watching the eruptions of residents at the people who work there, saying, at this moment, how can you possibly be nickel and diming people that need these supplies either to help or to live or whatever it is? And it was one of those hugely clarifying moments.

where you think some things are bigger than making $3.99 or polling spring or whatever you're doing. So we worked down there for a little bit, family back together, which was nice. My dad, huge relief to be able to be with us. And it's one of those experiences not only because my dad ended up passing away from a 9-11 cancer. And I will say two of my best friends who also lived in the area, they both lost a parent to it as well. So the, you know, the air is fine disclaimer that we got is obviously not true. Oh, God. But it has created this community in the 9-11 community,

which is so much bigger than the first responders. And as John Stewart is always talking about, you know, this is really about hundreds of thousands of people, either worked there, lived there, lost people, you know, in the attacks or in the aftermath of the attack. So there's the 9-11 community, but it was my first experience with the America community. Right. I grew up in very rarefied air.

You know, I'm a New York City, upper middle class Jewish girl. Like, things were fine. Yes. So it was amazing to be part of something big. Yeah. A lesson in community and like what you do when shit really hits the fan. Right. Yeah.

And how little all of the stuff that were mired in on a daily basis actually matters. Yeah. You know, people need to eat, go to the bathroom. and help each other. Right. That's really it. Right. It's a formative moment, you know, about a community. And I think that's something that you probably refer to with or without knowing, like, you know, a lot in your mind, because it does kind of create the, we all are one person, you know, and all of these things that separate us, which you do so beautifully every night that you're on that five is like, you talk about in the book so many times about how people come up to you and say, how can you do it? How can you

sit there. But what you talk about in the book is very, is quite moving and very touching. I certainly was touched reading it, like your relationships with all of these people that you kind of go to bat with every single day, that there are real friendships that you are, you have, you know, you talk about your kids, you share information about the schools your kids are going to or movies or shows that the kids can watch. And dealing with being on the other side of such criticism, I think is a lesson that so many of our listeners are going to enjoy learning and reading about how to remain dignified with a plum while making an argument. I certainly would love to have more of that in my life.

But you do it so well. I mean, I was pumped that you wanted to talk to me generally, but to specifically talk to you about this, because I watch the Kevin Hart roast and I'm hiding from the shit that they're saying about you. And sometimes the shit you're saying about them, fact, for sure. But all of your material is so fearless. And you genuinely don't seem like your feelings get hurt. And mine do. But do they still get hurt? Yeah. I think that there's a special kind of criticism box if it's the president. The president is really a tough one to handle. Well, that, and I was actually surprised to hear.

hear you say in the book that you did cry when he first tweeted about you. There are some things that he says that just cut differently. Some of it is so comical and ridiculous. But when he hones in on things that you are self-conscious about yourself and that you think about, and he said that I had a jittery presentation and an unendurable voice, and I'm, you know, hyper aware that this is not the voice someone imagines for TV. It's not melodious. It's very much elder millennial or whatever you would call it.

That makes you think that there are millions of people watching you who are thinking that same thing. It's one of his superpowers. Right. I hear what you're saying and I think you're confirming what I already believe, which is it really only matters if you yourself think it's true. Yeah. Criticism really only matters if you. So when those guys call me a whore or blah, blah, blah, or whatever, I don't care about that because I don't believe that. to be true. They can call me whatever they want. I mean, you should see my DMs. I mean,

it's laughable. It's so silly. Like, I'm just like, oh, you know, and you try to talk to some of them. And then you're like, oh, what's the point of this? This is a waste of my day. But you talk about your voice a lot in the book. It's called vocal fry. And you tried to change your voice, which I feel like that made me sad for you that you tried to change your voice. But I understand, because we all have our insecurities. I get it. And what the weirdest turn and twist in that story is that Roger Ailes gave you the go-ahead and said it's not it has nothing to do with your voice. It's not your voice. It's your content. I know, which was such an interesting story for me to read. I know. It's very tough. And I wanted to make sure that everyone understood that

Roger Ailes is a very bad man. And I did not want to be, what do the kids say, glazing him or whatever. But he also knew a lot about TV programming. Absolutely. And that conversation with him where he said, you know, think about who has. the most real estate on the network. And it was Neil Cavuto at the time who was a, you know, was a man in his 60s, but had vocal fry essentially. It sounded like a car driving over gravel. And he said the most important thing is that people no matter what room in the house they're in, they know it's you. Whether they like you or not, it's about the fact that they recognize that Jessica Tarlips on TV or that Chelsea Handler's on TV. And that if you try to make yourself

sound like the rest, you're giving up something really valuable. And it just made me a lot more secure in being me, even having to, you know, clear my throat on air or joking about my voice, which I do regularly on the five, you know, like, I'll just say, viewers can't get enough of this voice. Yeah. And knowing that some of it is they might not like vocal fry, but most of it is that they don't like my point of view and they don't like my facts and that that's really what they're struggling with. And because I'm so obsessed with researching everything and making sure that... Which I love. I love it. It's so dorky, but... It's not, though, because it's how you win an argument, you know? I mean, the data, you're talking about, you talk about that in your book so much,

you talk about your education on that. And that is everything you need to win an argument without getting emotional. I think that's the problem that so many people are having these days, especially our listeners, like we get so many people who call in, talking about their conversations at dinner, and talking about how to have an argument without letting your emotions get involved, to not take it personally, you know? And I really don't have that. I don't take things. I don't care. I mean, I... It's so cool. Sometimes even when I start to care, I'm like, I have to remind myself, oh, you don't care about this. And then it doesn't take long to move on to the next thing. Yeah. So I think some of your, like, the learnings that I took from the book that I think are going to really go over well with our audience is really to have your data behind you, to actually know what you're talking about when you're talking about and not spew nonsense, which we've all been guilty of, you know, having a point of view rather than having facts or a data set. Right. I think there's a big difference between your worldview or your point of view and the approach you're taking to a specific argument, which is usually issue specific.

So Ben Shapiro said around the rise of Trump, you know, the facts don't care about your feelings. And that was a lesson that I had to learn because I thought there's no way that a monster can win a national election. I understand there might be certain pockets of the country that are into the guy on the Access Hollywood tape. But you're telling me that Mike Pence can jam with this, right, that this is going to be okay. And I was, you know, enthralled with you remember Hillary Clinton's role models TV ad? I thought it was the best ad of the cycle. I'm revealing myself as too much of a politics nerd here. But anyway, it was a bunch of kids watching TV, and it was Trump mocking a disabled reporter,

comments about John McCain. And you just think, this is disqualifying stuff. Yeah. Right? And then you're jolted into the real world, which is a lot of people, A, are like that and think that that's fine. But B, can compartmentalize better than we can. And but also have been given permission to act in this tenor, you know, to behave in this way. I landed in Boston

the other day. I was gone for a month in Europe. Yeah. It looked great. Thank you. I went to Spanish school. It was so exciting to learn and so humbling. I loved it. I loved every I walked to school every day like a little schoolgirl with my backpack. I was ready to rumble. And I got back. I landed at Logan Airport. And I was had a rental car. And I had like, I was sitting at the, you know, island where you get out and trying to

plug my phone in. And some police officer was like, you can't be here, you know, very, very aggressive. And I was like, okay, okay. So I pull away and 50 yards later, another police officer and one of those wide brim state trooper haps, which for some reason come across is extremely racist. Poles start screaming at me to roll my window down. And then he goes, get off your phone, lady. And I go, what? He goes, get off your phone. I go, sir, I'm trying to plug my phone in.

I wasn't allowed to do it while I was stopped. And now I'm not allowed to do it while. Because you think I care? And just started this vitriolic tirade. It was, yes. And I was so taken aback, and I said, sir, why are you screaming at me? I haven't done anything. And then he goes, you can either pull over, get a ticket, or you can, you know, put your phone down and drive away. And of course, I was like, all right, I'm going to drive away. I had a two and a half hour drive ahead of me. But the whole drive, I'm sitting there with my rebuttal, you know? I'm like, actually, no. I wish I would have said. I'll take the ticket, and then I'll take your badge number, and then I'm going to report you. And then you're going to find out who I am. And then you're really never going to get rid of me. And we're going to go to court. Yeah. It's going to be really bad for you.

Yeah. I was like, I'm going to fucking make your life. And then so the whole drive there, I was just like, welcome to America. Welcome back to America. Like the level of like the vile tone and tenor that we're living in just is so ick and so unpleasant. And that's the biggest problem with the way that men feel free to talk to women. Yeah. And talk to anyone that's not a white male.

You know, there's a very specific kind of man I'm talking about. And that has been really hard to wrap my head around. How you could feel comfortable writing somebody. And obviously, we both know. And you say this in the book, too, which I agree with completely, that it's a lot easier to hide online than it is in person. Like a lot of these people in person would never say these things to you. They melt.

But you just say, oh, my. Hi. Except for that police officer. Except that guy. But that was a wide brim hat. Yeah, yeah. That never goes well. I really hope you're not married because your report.

married. But she probably hates him. I know. Well, of course she hates him. And she probably loves you. That would be, he comes home and she's watching something of yours and he's like, I just fucking cursed out Chelsea Handler. Yeah. I don't know that he knew who I was or recognized me, but it would make a lot of sense if he did. That would make more sense than him talking to a stranger like that. But I've heard you speak about this on the podcast, Unraging Moderates too, since you're the mother of two children that, you know, you're, That's what I get the most angry about is the way that men think that they can talk to people who have different color, skin, or women in this way. That he's given permission. Trump has given permission and this administration has given permission to there's no dignity or grace or, you know, it's left the building for the moment. And I wonder how long it will take us to get back on track or if we will get back on track.

I think that it'll be a modified version at best. Trump leaves, God willing, whatever. And it's hopefully a Democratic president. But the Republican Party has been fundamentally changed by the impact of Trump. So I don't think it boomerangs back. But I also, I think that that's healthier because I think that we were probably acting a little too highfalutant and had a little bit too much decorum for the level of anxiety that the average American has. not about being racist, you know, being able to, you know, be racist or sexist or something like that, but about their kitchen table issues. Because that was the lesson of 2024 for me. Because I had been going around saying, oh, you should love Joe Biden because we had the fastest recovery of anyone in the G7, like as if that means anything to someone that's actually struggling to get by. Right, right. And there's a visceralness to the way that Donald Trump can connect with people that I think we should continue to pay attention to. We should also try to be more

polite and treat people with respect and not pass policies that take away people's health care and, you know, decimate American Heartland, all the things. He's been terrible on a policy level. But what he has exposed in what people need from their electives, I think there are positive lessons to take from that. And Scott and I on the podcast and even some of my commentary, on the Five has been very critical of the Democratic Party for missing that oomph, you know, the raging and the moderates. People are not interested in the business as usual. You've heard the chaos. Now you can see it. Do we want to jump right in?

Watch all your favorite podcasts from start to finish right inside the free IHard Radio app. Make some noise. Catch every laugh and eye roll on shows like Bestie Listen. Hey Jonas and Las Culturistas. Now with full video. I'll just leave that there. It's the same hosts and the same chemistry with all the hilarious moments you've been missing right on your screen. Open the free IHard Radio app. Search video podcasts and tap watch.

There's a quote in your book, and this is going back to when you're talking about going in all-girls school in Brinmar, and I love this what you said here. You said, Bryn-Mar was a place where women were free to go wherever their ambitions took them. We led the classroom discussions. We asked the questions. We took up all the space. The absence of men wasn't the point. the presence of so many bold, curious women was. That is a great statement because it is very emblematic of what I think so many women are missing, you know, the freedom to live out loud, the freedom

to grow, you know, without looking to see if some boy is looking at them or shrinking in the space of men. And while that's not, you know, the fault necessarily of all men, that's just the kind of way it goes down when you learn in a sister or you go to a school. like that. So I want to talk a little bit about or more about Bryn-Mar, because it seems like you had just, you know, like it was your making in a sense, your coming of age. It was definitely my coming of age and it was a bizarre choice. I went to co-ed school my whole life. And my friends definitely thought it was strange that I was considering all women's college and then ended up applying early there and just jumping head first into that environment.

But there is a warmth and a familiarity of an all women's environment that lets you take huge swings and also make big misses and not work. about what's to come next, like a humiliation in front of the guy that you like, or that a professor isn't going to understand what you're going through. I mean, even our male professors, I feel like we're designed to understand us, which I don't have a lot of friends that had that kind of special experience. And it's in this consortium with Haverford and Swarthmore, and I had a Haver boyfriend, that's what we called him, and I could go over and hang out. out, you know, and come home and not have to use his, like, gross co-ed bathroom and things like that. And it was just an incredibly rich environment for me to figure out what I was good at

and what I wasn't good at. I talk about it in the book is flashing green lights that, you know, especially in liberal arts education. It's very Matthew McConaughey. Yeah. I didn't think of it that way. Two peas in a pod. I mean, no. I would love to be in a pod with him. He seems like A ton of fun, but I don't think that's in my bingo card. But, you know, we are all, especially when you go to these schools taught, you know, figure out what you love. If it's gender studies or it's whatever. And now everyone is graduating with these degrees and they can't get decent jobs, right? That pay off their loans or they're in their mom's basements.

Like Scott talks about this all the time. Yes. And Bryn-Mar really made me think about what I was good at. and then what could also be a life for you, like a career path. And for me, it was actually further study because I stayed in academia until I was almost 30. Yeah, I went for a couple of master's degrees and a PhD. I was really refusing to enter the real world. And then worked for Boris Johnson's campaign.

Yes, before he was so insane. He was just kind of eccentric and a philanderer and an enthusiastic cycler, which was a good time to be in Boris Johnson's world. But yeah, I did that campaign before I moved home. And then I got to work on Mike Bloomberg's polling team, which is the dream because he has unlimited money. And our values are completely aligned. You know, pro-choice, climate change matters, education reform, women's rights. I was like, sign me up for forever of this kind of thing. So are you wearing your dad's glasses right now? Yeah. Yeah. That's really cute. Thanks. I love that part of the book. I didn't know that. I didn't know that. I didn't know that. I mean, your glasses are your signature, for sure. But I didn't know until I read the book that you were dad to glasses. Took him off his dead body. It was like, these are mine now. Hello.

Yeah. Well, I actually had the cheaper version of them. I had, you know, so these are Buffalo Horn and I had the plastic version. And I remember he got them when he was a couple months out from dying. And I thought, Dad, like, it's a pretty big investment. You're like, you're about to go without saying that to him. And he was always very positive. like I'm going to beat this thing for the 80th time and make sure I was pregnant and, you know, me, my daughter and my sister had a new baby and he was so into the next generation.

But he was like, no, no, I want the buffalo horn ones. I don't want the ones that you have. And I was like, okay. So I went to the store and I bought these. And he wore them for a couple months and he loved them. And he looked great in them. And then when we did the who gets dibs on what, I was like, those are definitely. mine. So, yeah, it feels special. I don't want to make it out like every day. I think,

oh, daddy, what do you want me to say about immigration today? But it is a very special way to stay connected to him. And I think that I inherently see the world a bit through his eyes. Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. My parents, it's funny, when you talk about reading your, about your parents and they're kind of like, it felt like a very like political family gathering, you know, the way you described dinners and stuff like that. And I just was like, oh, that's so nice because our family was like political, politically minded, my brothers and sisters, but my dad never voted, but he talked about politics all the time. And I was like, isn't that so annoying? It's so fucking annoying. And then you grow up. Like there's a thing you can do

to change this stuff. What are you? Yeah. Who do you think you are to talk about it? What was his rationale? Just his vote. didn't matter, you know, that kind of attitude. But still, no, no, no, it's just a terrible example, I think, as a parent with six children, to not be a voter. Do you know what I mean? My mom was an immigrant. She was German, so I can get that a little bit more.

She wasn't really as politically as stupid. My dad belabored politics, talked about it all the time. And so for him to be talking about it at one side of his mouth and out of the other side of his mouth, choosing not to vote, I feel like is a little, you know, ick. But I know you don't make a lot of predictions because that's more Scott. Scott loves the prediction. Well, he's not bad at them. No, he does make good predictions.

People pay him a lot of money for those predictions. I know, I know. And it's, yeah, so he's pretty astute at them. But what do you, so how are you viewing the midterms? Like where we are as a country now, knowing that they're going to do whatever they can to cheat. Right. And not knowing how they're going to be able to do that, but knowing that there are ways. What do you think?

What is your gut telling you? My gut is telling me that it is a very blue environment. and that basically all of the gains that they saw in 2024 will be zapped away. So all of the young voters that were persuaded by Donald Trump on the Nelk boys or whatever are coming back to the Democrats, not because they're particularly enamored with the Democrats, but just because it's been going so terribly. And I think that the Iranians are very aware of the fact that these midterms matter a lot and are going to, you know, continue on with this war and embarrassing us, frankly, as long as they possibly can and driving up the price of gas.

And I have friends, you know, who push back and they say, you really think that the Ayatollah is sitting around thinking about our midterms. And I said, well, maybe yes. And is it 72 or 77 virgins that he's going to get wherever he's going? I think it's 72, but I could be off. Yeah. I'm not up to speed on my, yeah. But, you know, you're dealing with people that are in a religious war. And I said, yeah, but they're playing in our press constantly.

They're making those crazy Lego videos. They know exactly what the fuck they're doing. And they know that they're tanking his approval and making this more and more difficult for him. And they're enjoying it all to our benefit, I guess, electorally speaking. I feel good about it. But I think it's going to be positive in places you wouldn't expect. I'm more optimistic. I'm going to start with my concerns.

I'm more concerned about Michigan and Maine than I expected to be and more hopeful about Iowa. And I love North Carolina and what's going on in Alaska. And I'm a big James Tolariko fan in Texas. And I don't know if Texas ever goes blue. I know. I mean, they just keep doing this dance with us. I'm like, we've been fucked by Texas now three times. I know.

And spent so much money on it. But I do think – so I wasn't a particular. big Beto person. Really? No. Why? I don't know. I was doing this job.

I wasn't on the five, but I was a contributor at Fox and I was talking about politics all the time. But he just didn't hit for me in the same way. I saw a few speeches that he gave where I thought, yeah, I get this, but I never transferred over to, oh, could Texas even go purple? It just felt so far away from it. And it was, you know, peak Donald Trump. And generally, I feel good.

I'm but still concerned about the size of the win because they are going to do whatever they can to cheat. But I liked how nervous Ted Cruz was and that gave me hope. And I think when I was looking, I was thinking, I'm like, God, Texas gets us excited like this all the time. You know, every time there's an opportunity. We get behind somebody like Beto and then Colin. And then, but I was like, well, we're just, it just took us, maybe it's just taking this amount of time to lay the groundwork in the same way in which the Republicans have laid the groundwork for so long. along with the Heritage Foundation and all their Project 2025 things. So.

They're good planners. Yeah. They're long-term planners. And we had it. It took us, you know, three runs or maybe it'll take us three runs to get a Democrat in there. Maybe. And I'm optimistic and I'm, you know, in my John Ossoff vibe and all of it. But Project 2025, we had it physically in our hands.

You could print 900 pages out. That was just the game plan. And then we just stopped talking about it. And that's something that Republicans, and I see this with my colleagues as well, who are very good ambassadors for their politics, when they've got a bone, they never let go of it. They're just relentlessly on message about these things. And it's funny because they think that we are. And I'm like, no, we are all over the fucking map. Right.

And we'll also do civil war before we'll do civil war with you. You know, we'll be shouting about the deal. ESA and I, you know, I have major policy issues with where the far left of the party is. Like, I don't want to abolish prisons and things like that. Right. But I think we'll do a circular firing squad way faster than Republicans well. And they benefit from it. You've heard the chaos.

Now you can see it. Do we want to jump right in? Watch all your favorite podcasts from start to finish right inside the free IHard Radio app. Make some noise. Wooee! Catch every laugh and eye. on shows like Bestie Listen, Hey Jonas and Los Culturistas. Now with full video.

I'll just leave that there. It's the same hosts and the same chemistry with all the hilarious moments you've been missing right on your screen. Open the free IHard Radio app. Search video podcasts and tap watch. Catherine, do we have callers? Yes, we absolutely do. Let's take a few calls before we let Jessica go today. Okay, awesome.

Well, I have a question first that's sort of a quicker. one, and then I've got two colors. So our first question today comes from B, and she says, Dear Chelsea, I grew up in a very conservative Christian home. I've since proudly deconstructed and I'm very progressive. However, my parents are Trump supporters. During his first presidency, they proudly liked him. With this election, they hesitantly voted for him because he was the Republican. For years, our rule has been just don't talk about politics. But I now have two young kids, and they're very involved with my kids. Now, with everything going on, I feel like I can't keep quiet anymore. They think the Epstein files are fake. They think ICE is acting appropriately.

What do I do with this? Do I maintain a somewhat close relationship with my parents and just not talk about politics? Do I let them be involved in my kids' lives to the same extent? Unsupervised babysitting and sleepovers. Thanks, B. Well, Jessica. That sucks. First of all, pick up Jessica's book. It's called I Disagree. Yes. And learn how do you back up your arguments with facts. If you so choose to go down that road, which I think, I mean, there's enough statistics in your book to actually forge a real argument with, with anyone about this ice thing, you know? So 70% of the detain or the people that they've detained. Haven't committed on any crimes on American soil, which I think should matter if you're being put in jail. Or deported when you've contributed. And most of them are paying taxes, too,

to boot. I mean, the drain on the economy once you kick all these people out is astronomical. Yeah. And nobody thinks about these people aren't thinking about that at all. No. The cruelty is the point, and it has always been the point. But life is long and family is so important. And I get this question a lot or variations of this question. And it's heartbreaking to me every time that I hear about families fracturing or splitting up in a longer term way over a policy disagreement. And the question then becomes, what if this actually makes you think that there is moral failing here? more than just, oh, we don't see eye to eye on X, Y, or Z issue. But it doesn't sound to me at least from B's question that she necessarily thinks that there are moral failings here or that her children are in danger or physical danger. It's just what they could hear. So I would start with, please don't talk about politics, certainly with my kids and that I don't want that. I don't want this to become one of those strict environments where it's like, Mom, Dad, you may not do X, Y, or Z things.

But just say, we're doing things differently over at my house. and I don't want to hear about that. And to keep in mind that people update and they change and that one of the most important things I think you can do for those that you care about is to make space for them to change and evolve and to also talk out their beliefs. I think one of the big problems with political conversations is the over-talking where I've heard enough, but you only said five words. Let them finish. Sometimes they hang themselves out to dry, which is a fun way to win an argument where you then say, yeah, don't you realize that you just utterly contradicted yourself there? But it also creates an environment where they feel closer to you and more seen by you. And I think that a lot of these folks like these MAGA parents, and the same can happen in reverse, that part of what they're frustrated about is that they don't think that you're listening to them. And that's all we really want in life, right, is to be. heard. And so I really do try to make space for people to be able to tell me how they're feeling, even if it's something that upsets me. And then either, you know, locked and loaded in response with

the facts and the data. And I do like the soft start. That's what I call it, where you create some connective tissue with someone and how you respond. But there is also a lot of value in just listening and not having a response right away. You know, you're not on the clock all the time. And it's your mom. Right. You can call her again tomorrow unless she's dying, in which case, just be nice. Yeah. I think.

But you should get Jessica's book in case you do want to have these arguments or conversations, I should say, because it's a nice lesson in how to make it, make an argument into a conversation. And I love the idea of people like asking them to expound, you know, go, tell me everything you feel and letting them hang themselves out to dry. Because in many cases, that is what you'll do. Yeah. Okay. All right. Our first caller for today is Julie. She says, Dear Chelsea, I've been on a journey of self-love,

growth, and healing. I relate to so much of your story and admire the way you've become such a triumphant leader, pharmacist, and advocate for women, especially those of us navigating our 40s and 50s. What do you appreciate most is how you give women permission to be authentically themselves, whatever that looks like for them. My question is this. I was raised in a very reactive home, putting it diplomatically. Because of that, I've spent much of my life feeling like I needed to defend myself, as though there was always a battle waiting around the corner. These days, I'm practicing the idea that not everyone needs to hear my voice, even when someone brings negativity my way. It's definitely not a perfect practice, and I still struggle with the urge to share my

opinion or respond bluntly. How have you learned to navigate not always sharing your opinion, especially when you feel strongly about something? How do you balance authenticity with knowing when silence is the better choice, Julie? Hi, Julie. Hello. Hi there. Hi, this is our special guest, Jessica Tarlove is here with us today. Hi, Julie. How are you? Good. I've got my ice pack. I'm having a hot flash. Oh, perfect. So were we actually? I'll speak for myself. It was hot in here. It was hot in here. Thank you for cooling it down, by the way. So I hear what you're saying. I mean, I don't want to say I've mastered the art of not dipping my toe in the water because I feel, and this is more on a political front. I feel like not enough people are saying enough. And I feel like I'm not going to be that kind of person. on a personal front, which it sounds like what you're talking, speaking to more, I feel like you really have to measure and ascertain when you're depleted and when you have time for that.

Do you know what I mean? And sometimes once you practice the art of not chiming in all the time, you start to understand when those, you start to be able to discern when those times are appropriate and when they're not. And if it is draining to you, it's a very powerful move to say nothing. I absolutely love that perspective. I think that that's excellent advice. And it also takes away from from you and your energy, doesn't it, really, when you're just trying to battle all the time. And I think that's what I'm trying to render right now, for sure. And I think with relation to the defensiveness, which I'm sure you can relate to, too, once you're defensive, you've kind of already lost the argument.

Absolutely, because you're shutting down. You're not open. You're not open to the other person's perspective. Yeah. And it's like it feels really good to be calm in high pressure situations, especially when you're in discord with someone else. And like, that's a skill that you can sharpen and sharpen and get better and better at. And it's worth trying, practicing and like really engaging with that. And noting like writing down after those kinds of interaction. how you feel, how it made you feel. And I guarantee you you're going to feel stronger and more powerful each time you're able to do that without getting defensive and just removing yourself.

And it's like I'm sitting up straight or just thinking about how I feel when I do it because there is a physicality that goes with it. You're like, I am strong, I'm confident. I don't need to argue with this person. You know, like you don't need to. And just because of your history of having people attack you or kind of, of come after you because of past behavior isn't applicable to who you are today. So stop acting like it is. That's excellent. And I really love the idea of writing it down and reflecting on it.

That's not something I've done or I'm doing. And I think that that will lend itself really well going forward. I think that that's something I'm going to start doing every day. Do you have anything you want to add? No, I love that. And I would just say that you could also write something down before you have the conversation. Like your talking points for whatever interaction. And I like to stick to the top three things that I'm going to be mad at myself if I don't convey. And some days I get it out. And some days I don't.

But feeling secure and that you've been thoughtful in having a conversation with somebody that matters to you. Because, you know, this isn't about the random person that you're running into, right? Like these are the real makeup of your life. It's your community. So I always like to be prepared coming in. And then the reflecting afterwards, I think, is great. And then you can get better for the next time. Yeah.

And I wouldn't wish. And Jessica talks about this in her book called I Disagree. Every interaction doesn't define you. It's a collection of your interactions. So like just if, like, if you don't nail it one time, that's okay. You're going to get another opportunity. And then you're going to get another opportunity with that person or with yourself. You know, so like you don't have to beat yourself.

up and kind of self-flagellate if you don't get an A-plus in your mind in your first outing or your second or if you have an interaction where you didn't act in your best, like, you know, in your best light or however you want to frame it, like give yourself some grace about it and you'll be more graceful. I think that's so important. And I think as women, we tend to beat ourselves up. I tend to do that. We all do it.

And I think it's so important to do that, to give ourselves. house grace absolutely and i certainly do that so i really appreciate that and i'm gonna i'm gonna start doing that i'm gonna be kinder to myself yeah and just start writing that down i'm gonna be kinder to myself write that down you know download one of those gratitude journals on your phone i do it every morning whether i'm in a especially if i'm in a bad mood because i got to turn the beat around you know yeah like if i'm feeling negative i'm like you better write down all these things that you have and that you're grateful for so you can and now i write it in spanish so hmm um and Anyway, thank you for calling in.

You sound Canadian. Are you Canadian? Bam. Vancouver Island, baby. Oh, I love Vancouver Island. Okay, well, take care. Thanks, Julie. Thank you.

Nice meeting. Have a great day. Bye. Bye. Well, that was easy. Yeah. Yeah. Something that's been, I think you talked about this in your book as well, Jessica.

But, like, taking a beat before responding, like, even if it's sleeping on it, like, when we get activated, we want to respond right away. But, like, it actually is really helpful to be like, even if you're mad, sleep on keep thinking about it. And then you actually are more eloquent and you, you know, you can have a better response. Yes. Yes. Reactivity is never a winning game. No, but— Unless you're playing soccer or you're online where the reactivity is what amplifies your message, right? This idea of—and I think about this, you know, I've never—not that he would really care, but I've never responded to something that Trump posted about me. And it's kind of a policy.

You know, you just let it be and sit out there. Yes. But in general, like, you know that I do really well online because you're present there. And people don't know if they're going to get a response from you or not, but you're running like a dating service off of your social media. When you say that you're looking through your DMs and stuff like that, you don't expect that Chelsea Handler with many millions of followers is actually, you know, has gotten home from Spanish school. and before she heads out is going to, you know, respond to your DM or your post. And the pressure to be smart and snarky and funny and, you know, to know everything and to get it out at warp speed is really intense for people. Like, you can't always sleep on it.

And sometimes you miss your moment. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I think that once you get to a certain position in life or. a certain zen about how you're dealing with people, you can be calmer about it. But I understand that pressure, especially from young people. I talk to a lot of college kids, early to mid-career people, especially in arts or in marketing and those kinds of areas. And a lot of their life is defined by what their brand is, right, online. It's not, you know, everyone's a creator in some way.

And it's weird for me to even think of myself like that. I'm a research scientist that's on a cable news show. And with a PhD. Sure. But like, I met people I was at a, you know, a fancy book party and someone that I really admire came up to me and said, you know, you're one of my favorite content creators. And I was like, fuck. Like, cool, because I didn't know you knew who I was, but also I'm mortally offended that that's what I have been reduced to. You know, I know.

And after this is done, I will tell you who said it. And you will be like, whoa. But he was fresh off of going to Can Lyons where it was all about content. So I think he thought it was a compliment. And then the dead look in my eyes, I think he realized that this was not the best foot to start off on. And he was like, I love your podcast. Yeah. Pivot, quickly.

Yeah. Okay, we have time for one more. Yeah, yeah. We should have time for one more. And this is from Carly. She's a grieving humanitarian. She says, Dear Chelsea, this has been one of the worst years of my life. And I say that as someone who spent time in a mental hospital, a tale for another time.

I spent my career in the humanitarian sector focusing on sexual violence in countries, experiencing war and natural disasters, missing out on a lot of the quote-unquote normal parts of life in the U.S. By the time I returned home to New York in 2019, I felt out of place, financially stunted, emotionally raw, but proud of the life I'd lived, no regrets. Then came 2025. The new administration began gutting foreign aid, and like thousands of others, I lost my job overnight. But this wasn't just a normal layoff. My career wasn't just a job. It was my identity, my passion, my community. I'm trying to pivot, but I'm 40 and have never worked in the U.S. I feel lost. I'm trying to grieve and rebuild, but the ground keeps shifting beneath me. I have a loving partner and incredible friends, but when I'm alone, I feel paralyzed by anxiety and depression. How do I move forward in a world that no longer feels like mine? Sincerely, Carly. Hi, Carly. Hello, hi. First of all, I'm really sorry that you're going through this right now. That sounds.

very anxiety-producing, which you just stated. And just so you know, you're not alone. There are millions of people that are feeling the same way that you are. I understand gutting this foreign aid and what the destruction that it's caused in this world is just so devastating to even wrap your head around. I mean, I don't even think anybody really even knows the full effects of what has gone on. And we won't know for some time. But to deal with what you're dealing with, right now. I think this world is just so stressful to be in. Even when you're thriving,

it's very stressful. So I think I would just start with A, do you have a therapist? I do, yeah. I've had therapy for a while, like six years. I met her when I was working in Iraq, actually. Oh, great. Good for you. Oh, God.

I would try and remove the things that are causing you the most amount of anxiety. You know, I would try to stop reading the news for a while. You know, it doesn't mean that you're going to be uninformed for your life. Like, you're going to know what's going on in the world. But I would get rid of all of these elements that are taking away from you being grounded enough to kind of figure out a path forward. You have a lot to be grateful for. You have a partner. You said you have amazing friends.

You're 40 years old. It's like that is a great age to start something new. So good. I mean, seriously. It's like a rebirth. 40's a rebirth and 50's a rebirth. And then from what I was just with my friend who just turned 60 and she's like, it happens every 10 years. So like instead of thinking like, you know, oh, this is a terrible time for it to be happening, it's actually a great time age-wise for this to be happening in your life for you to reframe things and to look and see what else is out there that that will bring you joy and that will bring you purpose, right? Totally.

Yeah, I think the main thing that's causing the anxiety is the financial situation. And also, you know, I've never actually worked within the United States. So I've never had a job here. So applying for jobs within the United States, it's like I get so far in the process because they're, you know, impressed with my CV and oh, you've worked in all these countries. But I've never worked for a private organization. I've never worked inside the U.S. So mainly what's causing that stress is the financial situation, but also due to the fact

that I'm really struggling to get a job other than these, you know, consultancies that don't treat you very well, no health insurance and all that stuff. So, I mean, I don't know what advice you can give on that. Well, is there a scenario where just like for the immediate future, you can go get a job where you're working in like retail or apply to a Starbucks or something like that that isn't going to be your forever job, but something that will stabilize your finances in the interim? Yeah. So that's why I'm doing these kind of consultancies. I'm working on one that ends tomorrow for Palestine. So it's just sort of short-term consultancies to, you know, pay the bills.

but then I've had a lot of job interviews with the private sector. For example, I'm trying to work on safeguarding with sexual violence or like in the tech industry. And yes, I only get so far. And then in the end up selecting someone who has actually worked in that sector. So just kind of feels like I'm stuck in that loop right now. And I don't anticipate the administration changing anytime soon. So, yeah, I'm just sort of like stuck in that situation right now. Not quite sure how to get out of it.

I think Chelsea has a good point. even if it's like an office job or something. Like sometimes you need to take a job that like just is pushing the easy button for a little while that like, you know, you don't have to use the most brain power. And then that like buys you runway to like find the right thing. Yeah, I would definitely not be married to finding your passion in this moment. I think stability is paramount to your passion in this moment, especially considering your state of mind and everything that's happening. Like I think you should just kind of like think about something that's not going to be. taxing on you in your system, you know, somewhere you can just go to earn a living, even if it's,

I don't, I mean, I'm just throwing nannying or if it's being around children. Like, you don't like kids, okay, well, then forget about that. Then you're never, you're really not going to like them after you become a nanny. But just like think of things that aren't going to require the brain power that's going to be taxing on you. And like, do you have somebody, I have a very close friend who works in sex trafficking, but again, And that's going back to your, yeah, she does. She does a lot of work in that.

And I could reach out to her and see if she has anything. Yeah, definitely. That's my subject. And I will do that. We'll email her as soon as we're done today. But really just think of ways that you can be making some money. Right. And don't think of anything as being beneath you.

You know, there's no reason you can't go into a Starbucks and try to get a job or go into a restaurant and become a server or, you know, that's pretty easy to do. And it's good work and you make money. And it's actually good to be around a lot of people, you know, when you're feeling this way. Yeah, no, you're right. Also, I will, a couple of things. One, I don't want to send you out of the United States. But I feel like looking around abroad again just to see what's out there because maybe something will pop up where you're like, me and my partner, we got to go. Because this is, you know, I understand there's huge cuts to these kinds of jobs.

But the rest of the world isn't as insane as we are. So just to check that out. And then also if you do take one of these jobs, and I think it is so important at some point in your life, like I hostess for a summer. Because my parents were like, you've got to know what it's like to not have a fancy internship or something that you think is on the trajectory that you're the path that you're on. You should meet real people and go out in the world. But that also then will leave you with time and headspace to organize if you want with like-minded people. I mean, we have big elections coming out. There are going to be a lot of people who need to be active and on the ground.

And there are a lot of people who feel like you, like that the world is against you right now, or at least the government is. And seeking them out in different kinds of communities, I think, could be really gratifying for you. Also, people, they're looking for female Uber drivers. They need female Uber drivers. I live in York City. I don't know. That's a good idea, but. Well, you could go driving.

It is hard to drive here. It is, I drove in yesterday. I was like, what the fuck am I doing? Or a crazy breeze. I don't want to get a car. Okay. Well, scratch that idea. But, you know, keep your, like, keep your options open and just start looking around and thinking, like,

oh, is this a place I could work? You know, could I work in retail? Could I work? The service industry is a great place to, like, have a pit stop in between, like, big career moves. And even though you've never worked in the United States, that shouldn't be held against you. You have such a long resume of working in a very specific field. But you're obviously competent, smart, and educated to get those jobs.

So, like, yeah, I think listen to Jessica in terms of don't just cast your net here, especially when this is one of the biggest producers of your anxiety. Right. Right. And the situation is not great. Yeah. Carly, will you follow up with us in a few months? Yeah, I will let you know if I get a full-time job or where I go. Yeah.

And actually, Chelsea, I was also thinking we could also potentially connect her with Princess Mabel, who works in like the early child marriage. Oh, yeah. Yeah. She was a guest once. There's some overlap there maybe, so. Okay. Yeah. And also just do us a favor. Don't read the news for a little bit. I try not to. Don't. Don't go online. Try to just limit your social media. All of this stuff makes us less happy. It's hard because I worked in the Middle East for several years. And so seeing my friends and seeing everything that's going on. It's difficult. So I try not to look at it. Yeah. And you just need a mental break. Like, and that's totally understandable. And it's not. nothing to be ashamed about. So just do what you need to do in this moment and in the coming months. Just really take care of yourself so you can get yourself on track. And then you can reassess how you want to deal with the world that we're living in and how you want to help, you know, in the midterms. And if you can go volunteer somewhere or for someone's campaign that you're

excited about or a female candidate, you know what I mean? Like stuff like that. And that's going to bring some like vivacity back into your life. I promise. It just takes a little bit of time. So be patient with yourself. Thank you. Yeah. We'll let you know. Okay. Keep us posted, Carly.

All right. Thank you. Bye. Thank you. Take care. Celebrate your pride with the station that's as bold, vibrant and diverse as you are. I heart pride Canada. From dance anthems to pop icons and hits from 2SLGBTQ plus Canadian artists.

It's the soundtrack that keeps life loud and proud. Just ask your smart speaker to play IHart Pride Canada. Stream us on your phone. phone or listen now at iHeartRadio.ca. Come together, celebrate love. Pride. Feel it all year long. Let's go. With IHeart Pride Canada. So Kaylee says I'm newly single after the end of a 22-year relationship. My ex and I had been together since we were 16 years old. And now that I'm dating, I'm having the best time so far. I recently started dating a man who is a staunch Republican. I'm very liberal and a registered Democrat. He's intelligent, fun, extremely handsome and amazing in the sheets.

I hope to continue to see where this relationship goes or at least have some great sex for a few months. How can I find ways to respect his beliefs and not allow myself to be dismissive of his opinions? I'd also love to be able to give him a book to read that may help him understand my perspective and respect my people first mentality. Any recommendations, Kaylee? I mean, well, you could start with Jessica's book. There you go. Actually, yeah. Sure.

Yes, it's called I disagree, winning arguments without losing friends. And just say, I'm trying really hard to master the Zen about it. But I will say, if he hasn't read regime change by Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan, which exposes how bad shit crazy Trump is and the whole administration and the Republican Party writ large, give that to him. Deeply researched, takes you in the situation room. You'll see everything. He'll be dispelled of any ideas he has about the war in Iran or the Epstein files. And maybe that'll make him understand your perspective a little bit more. That reminds me, did you read the book, The Red Notice?

Have you read that? Yes. Yeah, okay. Browder, Bill Browder. I sent that to my Russian sister-in-law. Because I was like, it's really indisputable when you read that book, how fucked up Russia is and how fucked up Putin is. Yeah, she's a Putin sympathizer. She loves Putin.

My sister-in-law. That is so nuts. I know. I know. I know. I'm not speaking to that part of the family. I honestly can't take it. I just can't.

But anyway, that reminds me of that. But regime change is a great recommendation. That's a great recommendation. Red notice is awesome and easier to read and a lot shorter. But not really applicable to this situation. But also, I would also say if you're having a good time and you're having great sex with somebody, don't even bring up the politics. Just have a good time and know that this is not long term.

And that's the greatest thing about being older and single is that nothing is a commitment. You can do whatever you want and just have a good time and have a long term. lots of sex. The world might end any moment. So I hope you're having a good time while that happens. Also, if you bring up politics right after he finishes, he's going to agree with everything that you say. And then I was like, should I say it comes? But I'm here already. But you know what I mean? And then the next day, you can be like, actually, we agree completely on all of this. And I'm so glad that you've seen the light. Exactly. Exactly. Well, Jessica, this was so fun. I'm so happy to meet you. This is a dream. Thank you for having me. And also, like, you really read my book.

I did. Yeah. Of course. Because that doesn't happen all the time. You know, and people are looking for signs in your eyes, like telegraph to me what you said. And my book isn't, you know, a normal political pundit book. So I'm like, you actually have to engage with it. If you want to understand, like, how, you know, fucked up I am about my dad and things like that, which is what I want to talk about. So thank you for the care and thought of this. And just. for you. You're very cool. And Catherine, it's cool to meet you. Oh, thanks. Likewise. Thank you. And also to our listeners, the book is called I Disagree Winning Arguments Without Losing Friends. And it really is not a political book. It is a great book about having disagreements and discord without losing your shit. And I have a lot of respect for that. It's taken me a long time to even get close to that, like zip code of, you know, disagreement. So it's really, I know a lot of people that listen to podcast are dealing with that. So I really would encourage you to get yourself a copy of the book. And it's refreshing. And yeah, yeah, and so are you. So thank you. Thank you.

If you want advice from Chelsea, write into Dear Chelsea Podcast at gmail.com. Dear Chelsea is a production of IHeartMedia. Follow Chelsea on all socials at Chelsea Handler and find Catherine on TikTok at Flashcadabra. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brandon Dickert, executive producer Catherine Law. Find full video episodes and minisodes now on Netflix and get tickets to see Chelsea Live at Chelseahandler.com. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.