Dear Chelsea - It Begins With You with Jillian Turecki

Episode Date: January 23, 2025

Relationship guru Jillian Turecki joins Chelsea to talk about taking ownership over what you bring to a relationship, how you may be giving away your power by expecting someone else to solve your problems, and why finding “the one” is a crock of sh*t.  Then: A newly-sober caller frets when his ex wants to know what’s currently going on in his bedroom.  A new girlfriend worries that her boyfriend has too many female friends.  And the apps are proving difficult when a bit of information has potential matches heading for the door.  * Find Jillian’s new book here * Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail] * Executive Producer Catherine Law Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert * * * The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, Catherine. Hi, Chelsea. How are you? Hi, I'm good. I'm staying at a hotel in Los Angeles while I record my audio book. I've been recording my audio book for the last two days. Today Hi, I'm good. I'm staying at a hotel in Los Angeles while I record my audio book. I've been recording my audio book for the last two days. Today should be the last day. If you haven't pre-ordered my book,

I'll have what she's having. It comes out February 25th. And I didn't smoke any weed or drink alcohol for three days leading up to my audio book recording so that I could sound as crisp as possible because so many of my fans listen to my audio books, especially for my last audio book. So I really wanted to deliver on that.

That is real commitment, Chelsea. That is commitment. I'm professional. Yeah, and you know what? I love listening to a comedy, like a book by a comedian read by the author, like that's the way to go for those. Right, right.

What else is happening? Updates, updates. I'm moving back into my house tomorrow. Oh, great. The Critics' Choice Awards are now February 7, Friday night, February 7. So they've been moved to that date. So I will be hosting those.

And the fires are almost contained. I wouldn't say they are fully contained. Yeah, I think they're mostly contained. It seems like they're not threatening homes much anymore. They're not covering on the news at least. So not totally out, but now it's sort of like moving into what do we do now and rebuilding. Yeah.

Something I heard from several people that I think is really important to remember is that we all gave to our GoFundMe's and friends and people you know, and Red Cross and all that good stuff. And I think people are going to be realizing what they need a little bit further down the line, like in a few months when they start the rebuilding process or start to sort of get life figured out, like people may need more help then. So like check in, check in on folks. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Our guest today is a certified relationship coach, author, teacher, and host of the podcast, Jillian on Love.

Her new book, It Begins With You, The Nine Hard Truths About Love That Will Change Your Life, it's out now. Please welcome Jillian Turecki. Jillian, welcome, welcome to Dear Chelsea. Thank you for having me. I love books, all books, and then I love self-help books, so especially when I'm in the right mood, and I'm in the mood for self-help. So your new book,

which is called It Begins With You, the nine hard truths about love that will change your life is out now. So the nine hard truths, I feel like some of them are obvious truths and then some of them aren't so obvious. Would you agree with me on that? I absolutely would. And which ones are not the obvious ones in your opinion? It begins with you. I don't think is that obvious to people. It might be obvious to people who actually maybe do a lot of inner work, but I don't think it's that obvious to people. And I think what's not also not obvious is, I don't know, the mind is a battlefield. I mean, I think people also know that, but don't know, the mind is a battlefield. I mean, I think people also know that,

but don't really understand how that actually directly impacts the quality of your relationships. The making peace with your parents might not be so obvious. What do you think is not so obvious? I think making peace with your parents is not as obvious. I don't think everyone realizes that that's necessary, even though I do believe it tugs at everybody. You know, everyone has their biggest problems

with their parents, whether they know it or not. Yeah. And then the other one that is no one is coming to save you. Yeah, no one is coming to save you. Which is bad news. Yeah, it's really shitty news. Yeah, it's bad news, but it's important news for you to know. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, no one is no one is coming to save you. I mean, you know, I think that I know for me and everyone who I've worked with, it's not necessarily conscious,

but a lot of people will say, well, once I meet that person, once I meet the one, then, then, then I'll feel okay. Then things will be okay. Then my problems will go away. And even if they're not, even on some intellectual level, they know that's not true. There's so much emphasis on stock on like this right person. And when this right person comes into your life, everything's going to fall into place.

And it's not true. But where did that begin? Do you think? With romanticism. I mean, it seems pretty obvious, but I'm like, who started it? Like, you know, because, like, you know, like centuries ago, I don't think there was this, we, we, we started as a modern age, started to romanticize things because if you were really like an Inca or someone who was like living on the land, you're not going to be like, I have to meet the love of my life.

Yeah. We're trying to get fucking by every day. Yeah, I know. By, you know, peeling potatoes that hopefully you found. Exactly. So I guess it is modern civilization that started to create and monetize it really. Yes. Because I mean, I've heard from so we hear so many people, this idea, it's such a silly

notion. It's like Disneyland-esque. It's so silly to think that someone's going gonna come and you're a princess and then when they see you, you become the princess, but you don't have to evolve, change or grow at all. It's just going to all be okay once they find you. And then what are they, do you realize how much power that gives another person also? Yes, because if you give someone the power to make you,

if you think someone else is going to make you happy, they also have the power to make you miserable because you're putting all the emphasis on them. It's all how they make you feel. And fulfillment is an inside job. Like someone who comes into your life. I really believe that the whole point of a relationship is to make life a little bit easier and a little bit better.

There's no point in being in a relationship with someone that makes your life more difficult. And a lot of people put up with that. But the reality is, is that, you know, the real work begins once you're in the relationship and everyone thinks, well, once I find that person, like that's actually, you know, they think that the work is really important.

But well, the work with another person happens once you find the relationship, but the work, you couldn't be doing the work all the time on yourself to prepare for a relationship in a healthier way. Absolutely, absolutely. Which is like, you know, because, right, so both things are true.

Both things are true, but also you can do a lot of work on yourself to prepare yourself for the relationship, which I always think you should be preparing, but you're never gonna be fully prepared for what is going to come up in you when you're actually in the relationship. Well, because then why would you even exist on earth if you were here to have no problems? Yeah, that's not a real thing. That's not a real thing. And I think that people don't really understand. I know I didn't really understand what it means

to actually to love that love is a practice. Love is a verb. Love isn't just a feeling. And I think that what's what's embedded in this whole notion of the one and romanticism is that it's just this feeling. And so it should be easy. And this person should just make me feel great. And I should feel great when I'm around them. When the reality is to be in a relationship long term, you have to wake up every day and make a choice to show up to make a choice to show up, to make a choice to love this person, to make a choice to communicate. And the more complicated you are, or the more selfish you are, or the more ill equipped you are to understand what it is to mean to love someone, the more problems you're going to have in a relationship. Yes. And I also think that when you are talking about relationship and romanticizing that

that this ideology, because I definitely felt it growing up, like, oh, I'm gonna meet the one and we're gonna have the greatest love story of all time. And then I started to get older and I'm like, wouldn't it be fun to have a lot of love stories instead of just one and putting all of your eggs into one basket?

And the way that our society, specifically America, I mean I think it's a global thing but it's very American to be like, oh there's so much emphasis on spending your life with another person. That's a really long time. It's a really long time. And it's getting longer. They say if you can live through the next 12 or 15 years, you can live until you're 120. I already talked about how I don't want that and I can't afford that. And what am I going to be doing? Stand up when I'm 118 years old? Like, fuck, I don't want that. But because we're extending lives and everything, like it's just, of course it's a beautiful idea and concept, but it's

the reality of it is just so silly. It's like one in, I don't know, I don't know what the stats are. Do you, about how many couples make it past 50 years and are happily in love? I actually don't know the stats, but I think that if you're going to be with someone for a really long time, let's say,

let's just say even over 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, you're going to have many relationships within the 30 years, you're going to have many relationships within the same relationship. You're going to have many, if you're married to someone, it's going to be many marriages. So these are not my words, but as to probably say, you know, some people will have many different relationships with different people. And some people will have many different relationships with the same person. And I think that if you want to commit to someone long-term, then you have to understand that fundamentally. That it is a choice that,

one thing that is absolutely guaranteed in life is that nothing is permanent, right? The constant, we're in constant flux and there's constant change. So to love someone long-term is to be able to, you have to be able to accept that there's going to be change. And I think fundamentally human beings that we, we really struggled with that.

Yeah, because change is, change sounds scarier than it sounds like you're losing something to so many people, right? Change is like, why do you have to change? That's a loss. Change can also like putting, putting something away and getting something else in return doesn't mean you're losing anything. In fact, it can mean quite the opposite

that you are gaining. So we have these, it's like we've gotten these almost energies around these terms that have gotten completely out of control. Like the one romanticism, change, change is good. You complete me. Yeah, you complete me. Yeah. You complete me. What a load of shit.

My dog completes me. My dog completes me too. He's come as close to completing me as anybody else has. So what's your situation? Are you married? No, so I was married and the, the relation, the marriage was actually really, really painful and how it ended was extremely painful.

So let's talk about that story. Okay. Yeah, that's pretty, that was hard to read. So I can't imagine. Was it? Yeah. Okay. I mean, it's a good start to a book for sure.

Yeah. Gets you in. It gets you in and it hooks you. Yeah, so when I started seeing him, I thought when we got married, I was 38 and I thought, well, you know, I'm older, I'm wiser. I've been working with people for so many years. I know what I'm doing, but boy, did I not know what I was doing.

And so when our relationship leading up to marriage, I always say it was about 90% good because we were actually very compatible and we got along really well in many different ways. But 10% was very problematic. Now people will say, well, no relationship is perfect. Yes. Although that 10% was extremely significant so that when we got married, then the 10% became the 90% and the 90% then became the 10%. And so people think another thing that people don't understand, they think that, oh, once we get married, everything will be okay. No, no, no, no. Your problems get magnified once you're married. And so- And then once you have children, they magnify again.

And they magnify again. And this is from someone who's never been married or ever had children. And I know this to be true. And you know, yeah, because I'm sure you have many people in your life who are married with kids. And I'm psychic. And you're telling me when I look at a couple of what's going on. Yeah. But no, it's true.

It's true. But it's interesting. I've never heard of this way, the 10 and 90 flip. Yeah. So that was and it's because of a lot of different things, red flags that I didn't see and didn't understand. Like we didn't have certain conversations that were incredibly important. There were certain things that I wasn't saying because I was so afraid to rock the boat. About having children?

Part of it was about having children. Part of it was just about certain things that upset me in the relationship, things that you just need to talk about. You know, you need to sit down and have a conversation about. But I, you know, there was a very, and I write about in the book, there was a very significant night that should have been a deal breaker for me, or should have at least been a very serious conversation that I sat down and had with him. But for me, it was more just like, let me suppress how horrible that felt because I don't wanna face the possibility of this not being the one. And that is something that millions of people do. And what was the incident, can you tell us? Yeah, I mean, I talk about it in the book, but let me share about it a little bit here

because it's important. Like we went to this event in New York City called Sleep No More. I don't know if you've heard of it. I've been there. Yeah, I went there. So you know that when you're there, they give you masks and everyone have the same mask and then they separate you from whoever you went there with. And he was on the way there.

He was acting weird. He was shut down. I had no idea what was going on. That was something that was very familiar for my father. My father would shut down a lot and then you would never know what his mood would be. So I didn't realize, because I'd had, you know, prior to him, I'd had some really beautiful relationships

where like the trauma from my past was not ignited, but this one was, right? So there's no... What do you think about that though? Like, why is it sometimes... I mean, if the whole point of being here is to learn and to grow, so when you're in a relationship that isn't bringing something up, what's the point of that? Or maybe you're there for the other person. I don't think you should be in... I don't think that being in a relationship that is constantly triggering your suffering in your past is a good relationship. I don't think you should be in, I don't think that being in a relationship that is constantly triggering your suffering

in your past is a good relationship. I don't think it should be constant. I think if that's happening and two people are like, whoa, this is what's happening and then they can work on it and heal together, that's wonderful. And that's definitely a possibility. Why in the past was I in a relationship

that wasn't reminiscent of my relationship, my trauma with my father and then later, because context matters. It matters where you are in your life. It matters how old you are, what other stressors are in your life. Context matters. You know, it's like you could be anxiously, very anxious in one relationship and not anxious in another. And part of that has to do with who you're with. And it's like, oh, well, why were you attracted to the person who treats you like shit in

one stage of your life, but not in another? But what was going on in that stage of your life? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right. Okay. So back to sleep no more. So back to sleep no more. So he was acting weird.

I had no idea. I went into the familiar thing of just sort of like, what's wrong. And then, you know, he's saying nothing's wrong. And so I'm all anxious as opposed to something what I would do today is maybe not in that moment, but I would have had a conversation with him. Like something was definitely off. I don't like how it feels. We need to talk about it because my standard is if you can't talk about what's going on inside of you, we're not going to be in a relationship. Maybe, you know, I'm, I'm also sensitive to timing. I'm not going to, it's not going to be all in my timing that we have the

conversation, but if you can't have a conversation about something that's bothering you and you're just going to shut down, you don't have a chance with me. Right. But back then, all I could think was fear. So we go to sleep no more and we're separated. But there were many times throughout the course of the night, you know, you recognize even when the mask, you know, who your partner is, you know, what they're wearing, you know, their body. And, and I, when I would see him, I would be like, Oh yes, now we're gonna reunite. And he would act like he didn't see me. Hmm.

And then I don't know what was going on with him that night. And it just sort of blew over and I never addressed it again. And that was very, very significant because that was mean and it was very rejecting. I mean, it was very weird, but it's not about him, it's about me. It's about the fact that I didn't say anything. It's about like, what was going on with me that I was too afraid to bring this up.

So it's really, I really want people to stop blaming the other and to look within and be like, what's my pattern here? What is it? Get curious about yourself. So what, so now, so you do a lot of couples counseling. So when I first embarked on this journey of helping people in their relationships, I worked with hundreds of couples because when he and I went to couples therapy was terrible. And I thought there has to be another way.

What was so bad about it? No one was holding anyone accountable. You know, when I work with people and when I consider a good therapist is someone who's holding you accountable. And being like, look, this is what's going on and really helping us understand what's underneath it all, but holding accountable.

It's not about like, let me hold your hand and let me hold your hand and play. I agree. You know, it can't be like, you have to be compassionate, but you also have to be, you have to tell the truth as a counselor, coach, therapist. Otherwise it becomes a form of enabling. And then no one's getting better.

Yeah. I don't understand that approach and I don't like it because yeah. So I thought there had to be another way. And so I really wanted to help couples. And then I was like, well, you know, I really like working with individuals too, people who are heartbroken because I, I was devastated and I rebuilt my life. So I like helping people rebuild their life after devastation. I liked working with, I was like, wow, so much of this is who you pick. It's who you choose. And so many people are choosing

terrible partners or trying or going out into dating pool, feeling desperate, choose me, pick me, pick me, pick me. Let me help some individuals. So I like helping people sort of like in every area and journey. In every area, but do you have like a focus on relationships? No, no, not on every area, in every stage of where they are in their relationship. Yeah.

Okay. And also helping people who are really like looking for love. Oh yeah, I love that. Yeah. I love helping people look for love. Yeah. Well, who wouldn't love that. I love helping people look for love. Yeah, well, who wouldn't love that?

That's spreading love. Yeah, absolutely. That's wonderful. Yeah. Yeah, it's hard to... The way you're talking about it just makes me think, every person is in a different place on their quote unquote journey, and some people aren't even on a fucking journey.

You know what I mean? They're just like, whatever. So it's like when people kind of cross paths, you know, I'm not one of those people who thinks everything happens for a reason, but I think many things do. Yeah. And sometimes it really has nothing to do with you. Like you're not the A character in every story. And so you're not.

You're the A character in your story. In your story, that's it. Yeah. Sometimes you're here for other people. Yeah. Yeah. So I just always find it interesting where people cross paths because it's like, you also like if two people come together

and there is no friction and there is just like, la la la la la la la, that sounds suspicious too. Oh, absolutely. Because you wanna be unearthing, like you want to be looking within and improving and without friction, there's no reason to do that. Absolutely, and also what causes chemistry? Ignites chemistry between two people is like differences. And? What ignites chemistry between two people is like differences.

And also what ignites chemistry between two people is like, oh, you're your own person and so am I. Let's like rumble a little bit with this, but to what degree? It should not be chaos. It should not be chaos. If there's chaos, something's wrong. Okay. Let me, I just want wanna read a couple more of these.

Just lust is not the same thing as love. And also, like, I think I wrote this in my new book that something about, you know, don't confuse missing somebody, you know, with belonging with someone. Yeah, absolutely. Right? Like those two things kind of sound familiar a little bit. Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, I think, so when we meet someone and we're attracted, we can lose our minds a little bit, you know? And that's oftentimes when we throw our standards out the window and we think, oh, this person has to be the person. And we think, oh, they are the person. And a lot of people, what they do is they move really fast. They play house with each other, even though they're strangers. And again, it's that feeling of I would do anything for this person, this person's amazing. And what we, what a lot of people do is unconsciously

they put each other on pedestals. And what happens is once real starts to happen. So once the honeymoon starts to, once the novelty wears off. When is this usually? Let's discuss that. I think it's anywhere between three to six months to a year, but usually three to six months. Once the novelty wears off and there might be like, you know, an argument.

That's it. I just want everyone to put it on the record that Doug just ran into the room when you said three to six to nine months to a year because we are coming up on a year and that is going to be of owning him. Of owning him? Of having him, yes. Oh.

He's amazing. I don't consider him to be owned by me. I consider him to be my partner. I get it 100%. My sexual and romantic partner. I get it 100%. Or maybe romantic. Let's not be sexual about it.

But yes, okay. Cause I heard someone say something like two years. I'm like, no one has to tune your honeymoon. Like that's not a thing. No, that's too long. Yeah, it's not. I can't think about long. But a year maybe, but like, but you know, changes.

So, you know, that's when the masks come off and we kind of get real. And what happens is, so this ties into the one. We meet someone, we think they're amazing. And what we're doing on an unconscious level is that we're projecting our ideal onto them. Oh, they're the perfect partner. They're perfect for me.

They're perfect for me. And then as soon as real comes up, you know, our flaws come up, conflict comes up, things that are not so comfortable. Then what a lot of people do, and I've done this too, is like, oh, wait, you're not who I thought you were. Like you're not perfect. Again, they would never admit to this because it's not so much like conscious, but it's

like you're not perfect. Anyone who's on the pedestal ultimately becomes the fallen hero, right? It's like you're going to come off because the realness is gonna come. So, you know, once the novelty wears off, that's when you know if you really have what it takes to make it with someone. Some people, they are so addicted to that lusty high because they don't understand the reality

of what it is to love someone. Yeah. That it really is a choice and it's a verb and it's a practice and it's an intentional practice and it means you have to have difficult conversations and it means you have to have a lot of tolerance. I don't want you to tolerate bullshit, but you have to know where your limits are because no one is perfect. No one is perfect.

We are all very complicated, complex creatures with a lot of nuance. And I think a lot of people, myself included, walk this earth not knowing where their limits are for what is tolerable. They're either expecting perfection or they're tolerating a little too much nonsense. Before we take a break, I just want to ask you one last question back to sleep no more. Did you ever finally bring that up to him at the end of the relationship or is that something you discovered through therapy that night that was a red flag?

I didn't discover it through therapy. I discovered it on my own, in my own self-reflection. And no, I never brought it up to him. And I think it was sort of cathartic writing about it. Yeah. Okay, we're gonna take a break and we'll be right back with Jillian Turecki. Jon Stewart is back in the host chair at The Daily Show, which means he's also back in our ears with Jillian Cherokee. sports and more from John and the team of correspondents and contributors. The podcast also has content you can't get anywhere else like extended interviews and

a roundup of the weekly headlines. Listen to The Daily Show, Ears Edition on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back with Jillian. Okay. So we have some callers, we have some letters. What do we have? We'll start with our callers today.

It is exciting. It's always exciting. I love taking callers. Yeah, I love it. So Dusty is an interesting situation because he had written in about a recent ex about a year ago and followed up with him recently and he has a question about that ex, but he's somebody who's really taking responsibility

for himself and his actions and you'll hear a little bit about that in the email. Did we already answer a question from him before? No, I had just like seen his previous question. So he says, dear Chelsea, to begin, I wanna tell you how much fun I've had listening to your podcast. I followed you Chelsea since I first tuned Okay. So he says, Dear Chelsea, to begin, I want to tell you how much fun I've had listening to your podcast.

I followed you Chelsea since I first tuned into Chelsea lately in junior high. I'm newly sober and just celebrated six months of sobriety. I left my previous relationship just over a year ago. It was hot, heavy, fast, and I was still an absolute mess for the entirety of it. Things ended up going south for us. I've taken accountability for the things I had done while with him and as he has done the same in return, he and I have a great relationship now as friends. We've been in communication daily and he's a major source of support for me since moving halfway across the country and getting sober and working the program. And now I find myself leaps

ahead of where I was in terms of confidence, self-awareness, honesty with myself and others and my ability to put myself out there again. I've started dating again, and this is where things seem to be a little confusing for me. As friends do, we chat about dating. However, he started asking very intimate questions about my sex life and wanting to know what was happening with my dates and when. Look, as a friend, I know what it's like to be curious, supportive, and excited for friends when they're going out and having fun, hot, horny times after a long hiatus.

But it obviously feels different when it's coming from someone you used to wear a ring for. So my question is, how do I find balance in what to share and what not to share? I feel turned off by the level of curiosity he seems to be having, and I can also tell when he's trying too hard to appear unbothered. Help Dusty. Hi, Dusty. Hi, Dusty. Hi. Hi, this is our special guest today.

Jillian Turecki. She just wrote a book about love. How are you? Hi, nice to meet you. So nice to meet you. Congratulations on your six months sobriety, Mark. That's awesome. Yeah. Dusty. Thank you. I said, Congratulations on your sobriety, Mark. I thought you were saying... Oh, calling him Mark. Oh, no, no, no. I was like, where do I get more...

Okay, Mark Dusty. Yeah. We'll just cut that. No, keep it in, I think. I think that's good. How are you? Doing well, thank you. Sounds like, do you feel like he still has feelings for you?

So that was kind of my thought initially. So I, this whole time I just started dating again, probably, I don't know, a month and a half ago now. So, and he and I broke up over a year ago now. So I guess like we hadn't talked about that. Like I said, we talk all the time. So whenever I did start seeing someone or I was going on dates and this and that,

the way he responded, it just like his voice got really high pitched. And like, he just seemed like overly excited. And I just felt like it was disingenuous. So I was like, it made me feel awkward because I felt like he felt awkward, you know, and he was trying to be supportive. And I just was like, Oh, maybe this isn't actually that great. So does that make sense? Yeah, I actually have a question for you. So congratulations on sobriety. Thanks.

Thank you. Are you, are you, yeah, exactly. Are you in a program? Are you an AA or anything like that? Yes, I am. Okay. I have a sponsor and I'm working a program. And what does your sponsor say about dating

only five to six months into sobriety? So the group that I'm in is pretty loosey goosey about it. I would say it's kind of just based on, I think like situational individual person by person. There is kind of that blanket rule. You probably know this of like don't date within your first year. But with my group, it's not. It's more individual.

Yeah. And are you looking for what kind of partnership are you looking for? Are you looking for a long term partnership? Are you looking like what do you want? So because I am six months over everything does feel very new. So right now what I'm looking for is just, I think to find myself, figure it out like in dating, like I'm wanting to feel I think more comfortable with it. I obviously would like to find somebody that I could develop a long-term relationship with, but I want to enjoy the process of it.

Yeah, I agree. So right now that's like number one, is just enjoying who I meet and seeing what happens. That's the attitude everyone should have when they date. That's like perfect. It's like a renewal you get, you know? Absolutely. Yeah, and it feels so new, you know,

like doing everything sober, sober dates, you know, blah, blah, blah. But very different. So it's just, it's, I'm figuring it out, you know? Yeah. So what's one thing, I'm sure there's a few things, but if you were to like name one or two things that you really want to do differently as a sober person, as it relates to dating. I realized that my...

Like, I used to fill up my cup kind of with who I was with solely, and kind of lost my own kind of identity in the relationship, and I had so many expectations. I would attach myself, you know, I'd like cling on for dear life to that person, and it was really unhealthy. And so now, I think really it's just about finding myself. Can you ask the question again? I'm so sorry. Yeah, no, you're doing great.

It's a great question. It's a very good question. So it's worth taking the time to like answer it and think about it. Yeah, and I think you're really, you're onto something. I wanted to know what you wanted to do differently as a sober person, as it relates to dating. It's kind of like a slogan,

but I wanna have a relationship and not take a hostage. I think would be like primary. Like I want to have my own identity outside of the relationship, have healthy attachment style, healthy habits. And just like, it's just my goal to, to enjoy it for I think like how, how it is in like reality and in truth.

And instead of like creating a, like, how do I explain like, I wasn't prepared for followup questions. Nope. I, instead of kind of creating a narrative of what I think it should be in my head, I want to enjoy it for what it is. And kind of release control of how I used to try to maintain control. If that makes sense.

It all makes sense. Yeah, I think that's beautiful. What are you doing in your life currently to bolster up your sense of self so that you're not looking for yourself only in another person? Well, I mean, I think everything has changed in my life. Number one would be, you know, I'm hitting meetings, I'm working with my sponsor and I'm working my program. And that is really the most important thing for me right now.

Yeah. That's unique to me. I've learned how to be a better friend to those people I have in my life. That's nice. I feel like I'm almost like re-getting to know a couple of these people who have been so close to me for so long and I realized that there were some blocks between us that are kind of going away or we're kind of redefining our friendship now. So I have other things, you know, yoga is huge for me.

I started doing yoga every single day. I fell in love with it. Good for you. It's nice too. Yeah. So just stuff like that is kind of, I think what I'm doing for myself. Yeah.

But as it relates to the X, which is the original question, right? Like, what are you supposed to do about his ex? It's the ex, right? It's not a new guy, right? It's the ex, yeah. So he was very supportive of me this whole past, what, 13, 14 months since we broke up.

He's been, he was really supportive for me in the beginning right after the breakup, because I was so attached to him that it was like, I don't even think I would have been able to go a day without talking to him. It was intense and I was having panic attacks all the time. Wasn't sober yet and with that I do feel like this sense of anytime I kind of want to create a boundary or anything or like have like a conversation where it's just really honest because we had issues with honesty when we were together.

It's part of the reason why we're not together. But as a friend, I think he's amazing. But I think whenever I try to have like a boundary set in place, I struggle with that. And I struggle with, in my head, it's like I want my friendships to be limitless and like us not have like blocks with each other, like have things we can't say to each other. I want it to be very open. But like with him in this situation, it does feel like

maybe a temporary boundary or something. But it's like I have guilt whenever I do that. I'm kind of rambling a lot. You know, we're asking you a lot of questions. You got a question. It's like an actual it's like almost like we have like one therapy session. Yeah, exactly. I'm into it, so don't worry about it. Cause you have, like you've done so much for yourself and you're so honest and so forthcoming. Like I'm very, I mean, I'm sitting watching an admiration of you, how much you've done with your life

and how self-aware you've become. That's really awesome. And I think everyone has trouble. I'm just gonna jump in here, obviously Jillian, interrupt me when you see fit, but everyone has a hard time creating boundaries. I totally have a hard time creating boundaries. It's like I never even thought of it.

It's like a boundary, oh, I have to create, oh, I forgot. Like I never even knew I had to do that. But when the opportunity arises to create one, that's your opportunity to do it gently and with love and actually attribute it to your own self work all this work. I'm doing on myself I'm learning that we actually don't have a healthy boundary around this So while this is kind of strange to have to say to you I think for the betterment and the strength of our friendship like we're just not gonna talk about dating for a while or you know

Whatever you want to you know, whatever time frame you want to build it around. But I think if you guys have remained friends for this period of time after that relationship and went through all that stuff together, he's only going to respect you for creating a boundary. Maybe not right in that moment, but over time, he will respect that. Yeah, I would agree with that. And I think it's an opportunity for you to create a new pattern. Like with with not just him, you know, you may have to create a boundary with the next person you date or another person in your life.

But it's very good to understand how that's done and to do it effectively sober and with grace. Yeah. And it's okay that this is very uncomfortable. Like you're learning something new, you're creating new patterns, and it is going to be uncomfortable. And it's going to feel awkward, and you're going to have a lot of resistance to it. And that's part of the process. But it's also, as you know, is so important, right? So, and you can be really forthcoming about and be like, this is really hard for me. But you know, this but you know, this is part of what I'm working on and this is what feels right for me.

Yeah. And as you said, you know, the pitch of his voice went up and he felt a little awkward. Like it might be a little bit of a relief for him to not have to go there with you and like talk about those things specifically. So, yeah. Oh my God. The questions he asked, I was like, why?

Why would you ask me that? Like I was like, that's a lot, you know, to be curious about anyway. Okay, well, I think you got the message, right? I did. I appreciate you guys so much. Thank you. Do we look cozy? Does this room look cozy? I still have to figure out. We need a different plant. This plant blocks the bookcase. So anyway, send us a plant. Okay. As a thank you, please. Medium size. I've got a Yucca plant at work. That's about it. So we'll ask the next caller. All right. Thanks for calling. Bye Dusty. Otherwise known as Mark. So didn't he seem like he was in great shape? He did. Yeah. You sound- You mean in great shape emotionally? Yeah, like very self-aware,

very like- He's doing the work. He is really doing the work. I respect that. Oh, 100% and he was very honest and he had a lot of, again, awareness about what his pattern was. So yeah, and he's doing it. He's got the sponsors, he's in the program. So that's great. And I'm rooting for him. It really seemed like he's somebody who's taking responsibility for himself. Even looking at the email he sent a year ago, which admittedly he wrote drunk and he was

like, it was much more like sort of finger pointy. Whereas this email is all like, I've taken responsibility for my stuff. And I just thought he was such a cutie. Yeah, such a cutie. Yeah. Well, our next caller is Carly. She is 32 and this one sort of coincidentally also has a sobriety theme,

but really just a coincidence there. I'd love to talk to her about some of her online dating stuff as well. So she says, dear Chelsea, I'm 32, female and on the apps, unfortunately. I can't drink for some low-key medical reasons, but I truly still enjoy going out to bars, parties, wineries, etc. When a guy on the dating apps asks me out, I always disclose that I can't drink, saying something like, that sounds great, just so you know, I don't really drink, but I

still like to do drinks and go out, and I'm totally cool if you drink Three times in the last month. I've said this and the guy says, oh, yeah, that's totally cool Let's go on out on X day then X day comes no confirmation of the date and they are radio silent when I reach out and they Usually unmatch me the next day. I prefer to disclose this but many of my friends keep telling me not to What do you think? How should I handle this? I feel like it's a lie by omission to just show up on a date without disclosing I can't drink, but these stupid men out here seem incapable of understanding that I truly don't care if they're drinking. Obviously, I'm not going to be hooking up with a drunk man while sober, but can we not even get out on the first date to see if we're compatible

at all? Carly. You know what I think? I think remove, I think, hi Carly. Hi. How are you? Hi Carly. Great. Thanks I think? I think remove, I think, hi Carly. Hi. How are you? Hi Carly. Great. Thanks for having me. Yeah.

I think you should just remove drinking altogether from the day. I think you should say, look, I don't really drink and we do something else. I would love to like maybe go bowling or do this or maybe meet for a coffee. I actually think that it's a problem that so many people go on dates and drink. Cause you know what happens when people drink, they look at someone, they think, yeah, I'm attracted to them because it's the alcohol talking. So I think you absolutely should say,

I don't drink and I kind of prefer to do something else. What do you think? Because that's actually going to any guy who's like, not into that or disappears, great. Let him, because that is exactly not your guy. It's the one who's gonna be like, cool, you know, I'm not really a big drinker either. And I, you know, would love to take you whatever,

hiking, walking, coffee, breakfast, bowling, whatever the hell it is, dancing, whatever it is. And so, yeah, what, whatever the hell it is, dancing, whatever it is. And so, yeah, what are your two cents? I don't know, I kind of disagree. Okay, tell me. Because then I feel like you're making it like that you're only available,

like it almost sounds like you'll never be open to going out for drinks. And she just said she's totally happy going out for drinks because if someone says, I don't drink, can we do something else? I would take that to mean, oh, that's what our whole thing is gonna be. Like, what if I wanna go have a couple drinks one night,

you're not gonna sit with me? I understand what you're saying, but I think for the purposes of meeting people, I'm not saying you should lie and say, take out the drinking, but I don't think it's a problem for you to go, like it's nice to demonstrate that you can go somewhere, go out for drinks with somebody and it's not an issue.

You know what I mean? Cause then they know that, oh, she doesn't drink but that's fine, she's cool, she's fun. We can go to a bar, we can hang out, we can play pool, we can play darts. There's other things that can happen there besides just sitting and drinking, you know? So I mean, I'm the guy that is breaking up with you

because you're sober. Like I'm, if I went out with a guy who didn't tell me they didn't drink, I would be annoyed. Cause I wanna know that. Yeah, of course, you gotta know that. And it doesn't mean that I wouldn't date guy who didn't tell me they didn't drink, I would be annoyed. Cause I wanna know that. Yeah, of course, you gotta know that. And it doesn't mean that I wouldn't date somebody who didn't drink. I mean, I don't think I've, yeah, I have actually.

But if they're leading with it. What? But if they're leading with it. But you don't wanna be with a drinker. You don't wanna be with a big drinker. Yeah, but I don't know. I think you are reading a lot of people out because they might be like, oh, she's gonna be judgy

or she's gonna be, you know what I mean? because they might be like, oh, she's gonna be judgy or she's gonna be, you know what I mean? Like she might be sober. I mean, maybe if you wanna write even an addendum, like I'm not an AA, I just don't really drink a lot. Or not a big drinker. Yeah, not a big drinker. Not a big drinker, that's it.

Like, you know, make it like less than the blow, just cause some people are fine as long as they know you're cool. And some people are just don't wanna be like, you know. But she was telling them, she was saying I'm cool. She was saying I don't drink, but I'm totally fine. But then what they do is that then they don't show up. Screw them.

Right. Yeah. And that's what they've been doing recently. And I'm just like, tell me that it's not okay. And I'm cool or expect it and match me great. But don't plan a date and then go. What city are you in? I'm right outside of Philadelphia in South Jersey.

Oh, okay. I thought you were going to say I was like, if you're in LA, it shouldn't be an issue because everyone's fucking sober here anyway. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I don't know, maybe they're not maybe they're not falling through because it's not that I don't know. Maybe it's because they just they want to get hammered with you and have a good time. Either way, they're not your guy.

What's important to you in terms of a partner and his relationship with alcohol? For me personally, I just have like some, you know, low key medical issues where I tend to like pass out and have a seizure if I have certain medications or alcohol. So I've just, you know, I'm 32 now. I've lived my whole life, college, frat parties, all school, everything, not drinking, being around people who drink, all of my friends drink. It's never really been an issue for me except in this one sphere of data. Right. I'm going to say, I think you're labeling yourself, even though she's saying I'm okay with drinking, I think it's- So do you think she should not say anything?

I just don't think you should put such an emphasis on drinking. Just like you shouldn't put such an emphasis on most things. I agree with that. Before you meet someone. Like have them have the experience of meeting them, take out the drinking thing, I think, and then see if that changes the amount of men that you actually match with, and then see if that changes the quality of men

that you match with. Because maybe it will have the effect that Jillian is saying, which is, thank God you're rid of all those people anyway. I don't know, maybe there's a couple people in there that aren't big drinkers that just are like, oh, I'm on a first date, I want to have a cocktail. That's kind of like a very regular thing for people to do.

You know what I mean? Carly, would you tell us a little bit about, you mentioned some really interesting things to me about your experience on the apps, the kind of guys you're getting hooked up with. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Yeah. On the apps recently, I've been having this issue where even when I do go out on a few dates with people, I get a lot of feedback about that I have my shit together too much

and that makes them insecure. After the date or before the date? After. When I do go out on dates, like two or three dates with someone, they're like, oh, I'm not in a place in my life right now and they use it as an excuse and they blame it on like, oh, you own a house. You know what you're doing with your life and I'm still trying to figure my life out at 39 years old. Which is fine everyone's in different areas but that's just

kind of like something I've been getting a lot recently. Well that you definitely don't want to diminish the fact that you have your shit together. Absolutely not. There's a lot of shit I could still figure out. That's something that you don't want to start hiding from men because you know absolutely not exactly. I think it's great that you don't want to start hiding from men. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Exactly. I think it's great that you have your shit together at 32. It's amazing.

It takes people until like 35 ish, I think, to get their shit together. Yeah. 35 to 40 anyway. Yeah, and beyond. But yeah, I mean, that would be my advice. Just to remove that, don't put such an emphasis on it. Just you know, you're open to whatever. You can suggest always going to coffee also, or going for a walk.

In your book, you talk about what a co-regulating experience walking is, right? That's the first time I've read that. I mean, I know it to be true. Very co-regulating. But yeah, isn't it, right? That's actually, it sounds kind of like a corny thing to do on a date.

I mean, I wouldn't go for a walk with someone on a date. I did it once, and that's why I'll never do it again. But it is actually a really good activity for two people to do together. Yeah. And you know what's something that I'll leave you with is this, sometimes the people who do have their quote unquote shit together and are not,

they're not hookup material, their wife material. Like, and I say that meaning like, they're not hookup material, they're wife material. And I say that meaning like, they're not the person who you're just, they're not just gonna like have a good time with you and get wasted and go to bed together. Like you're someone actually to be taken seriously for many different reasons.

Sometimes those women, they do have to wait a little bit longer for the right person, especially around your age group, but don't let that discourage you. Never, as Chelsea said, never diminish all that you've accomplished and that you have your shit together. You have to be loud and proud about that. Okay, I'll try. Okay. I love that, Jillian. Yeah.

You are somebody they bring home to mom. Yeah, you are. And that's a good thing. And that's a lovely thing. You are somebody they bring home to mom. Yeah, yeah you are. And that's a good thing and that's a lovely thing. Yeah. Yeah, and also enjoy the process of all of this. Like I know it may seem frustrating right now, but like you'll never get this time back again.

You know, you're 32, you're single, you're on apps. Like look at that as fun and adventurous instead of the disappointment that comes with it. There's also all these other fun flirty things. Sometimes you flirt with people that you never even go on a date with. Yeah. And it's fun for like five days or two weeks and it never comes to fruition. But like, who cares? You know what I mean? It doesn't fucking matter. It's like, enjoy all of this that's happening because you're never going to be 32 again. And you might not be, you might meet somebody, get married and have kids and be

like, God, I wish I went on some more dates. You know what I mean? Well, I have been to more countries than dates this year. So I guess that's- Perfect. That's great. That's a good attitude too. I love that. Yeah, so you're a very interesting girl. You're a very interesting woman. So you need an interesting guy.

And so anyone who's just like gonna be like, well, she won't get wasted with me. That's not your guy. No, but do you have any plants that you can send? Cause we need to put a plant in this area that isn't this tall, that just like kind of comes up here and is a little bit. I would keep asking our callers, but our last caller, he was not helpful.

He was not. I kill all plants. I just got flowers on Saturday at the Farmer's Market and they're dead already. So I can keep dogs alive, but not plants. She does have an enormous black dog, just like you, Chelsea. I mean, I don't need her to keep my dog alive. So you keep your dog alive and I'll try to keep mine alive. But I guess we can call this episode,

No Plants for Us. Okay, well, does that help you at all? Are you? It does, thank you. Okay, cool. Thanks, Carl. Thanks for calling in. Thanks, bye.

Bye. Jillian, do you have advice for people who are on the apps and are just like suffering? Yeah, I have a lot of advice. Well, I think there's a few things. One is that really shouldn't, don't depend. It's designed to make you very dependent. Don't depend on them entirely. Like actually go out, meet people, expand your circle, have fun, live your life to the fullest. Don't get so obsessive about it. Expand your zip code.

That's important because also if you're in a like in a big city, usually that can be more difficult. So go like to the periphery, maybe you have to drive 30 minutes, maybe you have to drive an hour. I think it's worth it. And don't be having a million different texting exchanging exchanges with lots of different people, like focus on one person at a time, honestly, and meet the person, whether it's like through a FaceTime or Zoom or in person quickly. Because what I've been seeing a lot lately is that,

oh my God, I've been texting with this person, it's been like two months, but we haven't met. And it creates this really weird false sense of intimacy. So just like if you are in it because you want a relationship, then you have to have discipline not to always be on it. You have to have some clear standards and also have some pictures of you where you're like smiling and it's not just like a pose with all this makeup, especially for women. And yeah, those are just my quick tips. That's great. Well, maybe let's take a break and we'll come back

with a quick question, a quicker question. Okay, we'll take a break and we'll be right back. Jon Stewart is back in the host chair at The Daily Show, which means he's also back in our ears on The Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. The Daily Show podcast has everything you need to stay on top of today's news and pop culture.

You get hilarious satirical takes on entertainment, politics, sports, and more from John and the team of correspondents and contributors. The podcast also has content you can't get anywhere else, like extended interviews and a roundup of the weekly headlines. Listen to The Daily Show, Ears Edition on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back with Jillian Turecki. And actually before we're back,

we can lose our headphones. I like my headphones. They make me feel secure. I know. What do you got? I've got either, my boyfriend has a lot of female friends, or my ex-lover died. Ooh.

What do you think? I think the ex-lover died. Ex-lover died, okay. What do you think? Sure, I'm open. Okay, so Trisha writes, Dear Chelsea, I just found out that my former lover with whom I was in an extramarital relationship died a year ago.

We were lovers undercover for 10 years and I truly loved him. I was very close to his wife. I know it's gross. She found out about us because of a drunk email I sent years ago when the guilt got the best of me admitting to our relationship. Another great advertisement for alcohol. I mean, really. Just skewing that way today.

I'm since widowed and have only had two exchanges via LinkedIn with him since we broke up, but I started to write her how sorry I was for her loss and of course the damage I caused, but now I'm rethinking writing her. Should I reach out? What say you? Thanks, Trisha. No, no. Do not. No reason to. Leave her alone. Let her grieve. Yeah. And you can do your grieving by yourself. And she lost her husband. So she's like grieving both of you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't remind her. Yeah, that's a big no. I'm glad we're in agreement. Yeah. We do have probably time for that last other quickie if we want to do more. Sure.

Okay, great. So, Susanna says, Dear Chelsea, I'm in a new relationship where I feel secure for the most part. My one hang up with him is that he has a lot of female friends that he regularly talks to and hangs out with, both single and married alike. Obviously, I know I can't tell him who to be friends with, but I just cannot relate at all because I don't have any single straight men that I'm regularly talking to and hanging out with.

It feels like it could quickly become a slippery slope. I have not brought this up to him yet because I think it could easily be misconstrued as me being the jealous type or acting like the crazy girlfriend. I trust him and I don't want to unnecessarily rock the boat of an otherwise great thing. He's been single for a long time, over a decade, so perhaps he doesn't even realize that it might make me uncomfortable

since he's not used to having to consider someone else's feelings. My question is, is it worth bringing up since it makes me feel uneasy, or will it just naturally fade out over time now that he isn't single? Is it totally fine to be in a relationship and have a bunch of single friends of the opposite sex? Basically, is this a valid concern or am I just insecure? Susanna.

How long have they been together? I forgot that. Let's see. It just is new relationship. I don't think we have a timeline. Would you like to answer this first? Would you like to go first? I think that it's important when you're trying to foster a new relationship, certain other relationships might have to change. I also think that if you're going to have a lot of friendships, female friendships, and you're a straight man, you're in a relationship with a woman, that she should be introduced to these friends

and included somewhat, you know? It really just, and also depends, does he have a history with any of them? Has he hooked up with any of them? Did he date any of them? Those need boundaries around them, especially when you're trying to foster like safety and trust in a new

relationship. What do you think? Well, I think she hasn't even broached the topic with him. And right now it doesn't sound like it doesn't sound nefarious. It sounds like he has a lot of friends that are girls. And I think people should be confident. She said in the letter, I don't have, I can't relate because I don't have a lot of friends that are guys. That's a you problem, not a he problem. I'm dating somebody who has lots of girlfriends. I have no issue with that whatsoever. I have lots of guy friends. I mean, most of them are gay, but I have a lot of straight male friends. And it's just not an issue because I'm confident and he's confident. Like, it's not a thing. I don't think, I think if there are issues arise because of it in addition to your insecurity

that is so far rooted in nothing, just her own insecurity, if there were issues that were derived from him and one of these women, then yes, it becomes an issue. But right now it sounds like a her issue, not a him issue. Yeah, I mean, look, the thing is, I agree. I think there's nuance. It's like, does he have these other friendships and is he not, is he not communicating with

her? Like when there's a problem, absolutely be free to meet all of them. And that should be incorporated. I think there's to be integration. I think that's really important. Definitely. Yeah. So I think as long as there's integration and as long as it's not like when there's where it gets messy, it's like if they have a problem and he's going to one of his female friends and he's not talking to her. But that doesn't seem to be what's happening. But I do want to bring that up as something that does potentially happen in couples where it absolutely can be a problem. Also can be a problem with one of those friends is someone who like a year ago you were in a relationship with and there isn't any like clear boundaries. But at the same time, if it's just, I do believe that there can be friendship

and that it absolutely could be just her insecurities to your point. Because I just don't think like when you said, I think the first thing you said was like, when you're in a relationship, your other relationships have to change. I actually, I don't think that's true unless you have some unhealthy relationships, you know what I mean? Yes, it might mean like, so like, it might mean

also including the girl in your relationship. Yes, your girlfriend. Integration is really important. I think where there needs to be change is like if you have if he has a friendship with one of the women who's single and you know, she's the first person he texts in the morning and they talk about everything and they, you know, they, they do their Saturday nights together. When you have a relationship that the, some of that relationship is going to have to change. But other than that, no. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, thanks for writing in Susanna. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, thanks for writing in Susanna. Thank you, Susanna. Thank you, Susanna. We can go to work. Does she have a plant?

I won't. Email her and ask. Okay, okay. I like this one. Okay, well, everybody can order, it begins with you, the nine hard truths about love that will change your life. Yes, thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

That was awesome. It was so much fun. Yeah, good times. Okay, we'll see everybody or hear everybody or listen to everybody or talk to everybody next week. Goodbye. If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email at dearchelseepodcastatgmail.com and be sure to include your phone number.

Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert, executive producer, Catherine Law. And be sure to check out our merch at chelseahandler.com. John Stewart is back at The Daily Show and he's bringing his signature wit and insight straight to your ears with The Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Dive into John's unique take on the biggest topics in politics, entertainment, sports, and more. Joined by the sharp voices of the shows, correspondents, and contributors. And with extended interviews and exclusive weekly headline roundups, this podcast gives you content you won't find anywhere else.

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