Dear Chelsea - Jersey Girls with Debbie Gibson

Episode Date: September 11, 2025

Debbie Gibson joins Chelsea in-studio to talk about the one that got away, when teenage girls know more than men in suits, and what life is like in her second act. Then: Menopause has a divorcee feeling down.  A 30-something and her bestie beef with judgmental parents.  And a grieving daughter wants to get her life back.  * Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail] * Executive Producer Catherine Law Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert * * * The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to Culture raises us on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi. Hi, Chelsea. Hi, how are you? I'm great. You just got back from New York. I was at the U.S. Open. I had to go to the women's finals.

It was mandatory. I had to see that final match between Anasamova and Sabalanka. Okay, so what do you like about being there? Is it the sports? Is it the sort of CNBCN? It seems like a very sort of like celebrity event. Yeah. Yeah, it is more celebrity here at the U.S. Open than it is at like the other grand slams, I think.

There's always celebs, but this one is definitely like a New York thing. So I've never been in the Australian Open. I've never been in the French Open. I go to Wimbledon every year for a few matches whenever I can get there at the beginning or the end. Obviously, it's better to get there than the end because it becomes more competitive. Yeah. But the U.S. Open just has the most fun vibe. Really?

First of all, it's like, it's so fun because I know a lot of tennis people. so whoever I get invites me like you could go as a you could buy your own ticket or you could go as a guest to like one of the brands there or like I went and sat in the president's box for this match since I was invited by somebody there and then it's just like a fun vibe a day they're drinking they have honey juices like every open has their signature drink like Wimbledon it's PIMS cups which are so fun and Wimbledon is very very convivial and beautiful but a little stiffer you know you've got to be a little A little bit more proper. I mean, I'm not, but that's what they're expecting. And then U.S. Open is just kind of like more loosey-goose. Like, it's just a really relaxed vibe. It's a fun day out. I went with two of my friends, Naomi and Serena this time.

I mean, I went with Hannah Berner in one of the matches. I went with Juliana Margulies to one of the matches. But then I was like, okay, you know what? I have to go back for the finals. So I flew in for literally the day to go watch the finals in person. But it's just the atmosphere. The atmosphere is just bubbling. and I love that vibe.

I'm a day person. I love that, like, day, atmosphere. And then, yeah, and then you're home at a reasonable hour. And, yeah, I don't know. Yeah. See, if you're ever going to catch me at a sports match of any kind, it's something that has a fun crowd. You know, like, I'm not there.

I don't know who's playing. I don't know who's winning. But, like, I, in high school, spent some time in Mexico, and we would go to the baseball games there. And they would, like, light rules of paper towels on fire and, like, throw them down the stands. Like, it was a very crazy, fun environment. So, like, I'm not there to check out the sports, but, like, I love a dodger game.

As you can see, I neglected to mention any of the tennis. But what I do love about the tennis is that it's a level of excellence. You know, like, if you watch the bands, it's the same guys that get past, that knock everybody out of the way. It's the same three guys. It's Djokovic, it's Jokovic, and it's Alcarus. They knock everybody out of their way. So they are playing at such a high level.

So, and with the girls, they're less, Arena Sabalanka is very, consistent she's always in the finals but the girls are less consistent like there are great but there are just like our pop stars right now are there's such a plethora of them from charlie xx to chapel rhone to taylor to i mean you know taylor's been around forever but like all of these people gracey abrams you know that are bubbling up it's kind of like analogous to tennis because there's so many young great players that have the potential to be incredible and they're all gutting there by you know failure, failure. Like, you know, they play, they play, they play, then they get knocked out. And then they learn how to get better and they fix their serve or they fix whatever or they

hire a new coach and they become more consistent. So it's kind of really nice. I prefer women's sports. I prefer to watch women's sports. So I just love that level of competitiveness because I don't have that kind of discipline and it's really cool to watch. Yeah. We have a very sweet guest today. Oh, yes. Yes, she's a sweetie pie. She is a pop star. She's a performer, songwriter, and now published author of her brand new memoir, eternally electric. Please welcome Debbie Gibson. Okay, here we are with our very special guest, Ms. That's what they always call me, Ms. Debbie Gibson is here today in studio. Thank you for coming in studio. Hi. So, by the way, I always want to do things in studio. And it's always being like forced to

upon us to do, well, we can do a Zoom. No. Like, no. I know. It's a wrap on the Zooms. We've done them. We've out-zumed ourselves. I love like a good old-fashioned L.A. press trip.

You know what? You know what Zoom is good for? Spanish lessons. That's what Zooms are good for. You know, that doesn't need to be face-to-face. Oh, my God. How are you? I'm good.

Yeah. Yes. I was just saying, it's weird because when I was on your E-show, I feel like I wore a version, like the 20 years ago version of the outfit I have on today. It involved, like, low, slung pants and I feel like I wore a fedora. I think it was pink. You always have this hat on, which is the way...

I don't always. Today's just like the roots came out to... I need a toner. Okay. So I put it on it. Well, you should have told us I would have brought one in. I'm sure I have one at my house, even though I don't have a house. See, because you're the same...

Because for us girls who want to stay blonde but are gray and want to do the dark root and then do the blonde, it just never comes out the same way twice and it's a whole and I hate when my hair gets brassy. I hate that. Well, that's what's happening right now with mine. No, it is. It's so stripy and a little, it's got, it's, okay, okay. So the hat is just copy that. We're here to celebrate the publication of your very first book. Yes. Which is called eternally electric, which is out now. And it takes you through your childhood, which I didn't know you were one of four girls. I think what an advantage that is in life. Don't you think? I mean, I loved, I love it. And my late mom, everyone always said, oh, don't you wish you had boys? And she was like, no. Why would you, well, once you have one sex, you don't wish for the other sex. She's just like, I love my girls.

But it's also like saying to someone like who has children, like don't you wish you didn't have children. Like once they're out and they're in your life, you're not going to be like, yeah, actually, I wish I could renegg on that and not have any children. Which, by the way, is also a thing with, because you don't have children, right? And I don't have children. Right. And I don't have children. And I'm always like, similarly, the fictitious hypothetical children that I don't know, no, I don't miss them. Right, right.

Right, exactly. Right? Like, I don't, nobody's living, I mean, well, maybe certain women may be, like, feeling regretful or rueful that they didn't have the child that they want. Oh, wow, that's a big bird. Yeah, he's, yeah, he's, you know, the freedom in my life is not wasted on me. Right. And I know I feel like your kindred's fair. I feel very free in life.

So I'm glad to hear that. And there you go. But talk to me about your sisters because we have a lot of sisters. I love sisters. I'm one of three girls in my family. Oh, wow. I didn't know. So, yeah, we have three boys and three girls.

So I have both worlds to have experience from. But I always find families, like, you know, that are only girls. And especially when there's three or more, I always am, like, very attracted to that dynamic. I love it. And we're all radically different. Yes. But like we all connect in some way. Uh-huh.

So. And what's the, like, age gap in reality? So my oldest sister Karen's turning 60. very, very soon, which is weird to say because she's just so, like, cute and little and fun and feisty. And she just joined a sailing club, which is my favorite thing. That's funny. Her and her husband move back.

They're like one of the most happily married couples, I know, my sister Karen and my brother-in-law, Jeff, which you don't hear about often anymore. But they've been married for well over 30 years. And then Michelle is 57. I'm turning 55. And then, or she's no, 58, 55. 551. We go like two years, three years, four years. So there's like a nine year span.

Yeah. And are you guys, do you guys see each other pretty regularly or? Well, now the three of them are New York, New Jersey, so it's great because when I get there, I can see everybody. Yeah. How do you like living in Vegas? They're going to say, how do you like living in your Kia sported? Yeah, well, that was my next question. I do have an RV. That's another story. I love living in Vegas. I'm always telling people how great it is to live in Vegas. Really? Tell me me because I have a trouble going to Vegas. But you probably never leave, do you ever leave the strip? Well, I had a boyfriend who had a house in Vegas. So then I spent some extra time in Vegas, which was even more convincing that I shouldn't spend any long periods of time there. And I can say this because my ex-boyfriend and I are friends

now, but see, I did Vegas his way in a house with him. And I was a little like, mm-hmm. And then when I moved into my own house and started doing it my way, I can't explain it. But I just, now I love it. I've been there 15 years. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and I live, you know, I love living. First of all, there's anyone who complains about rush hour traffic in Vegas. I'm like, no. It all moves within 10 minutes. Whenever I land there on a plane, I'm just like, oh, I can breathe. It just feels open, expansive. There's mountains. The hot weather is the worst thing about it, but it's not that bad. Every place has something. But I live not far from hiking. I live near a Target. I'm 20 minutes from fake Paris on this trip, as I like to say. Like you can have all that if you want it, you know, But. And do you go out in Vegas? I don't a lot. Like, I just have my handful of friends and there could be dinners or a show.

Uh-huh. Like I've seen, I'm sure you're friends with Caratop, Scott. I've seen him twice. I just think all comedians know each other. Right. Right. No, I don't know. I mean, I'm sure I've met him, but I'm not.

I don't know him at all. But I love, like, I just love that about my life in Vegas. I could text Donnie Osmond or Caratop and go, can I come in a show tonight? Yeah. And I'll be treated great and hang out. Like, that's my going out. And do you perform in Vegas ever? I did a, we'll call it a mini residency, an eight show run with Joey McIntyre.

Oh, okay. A couple years ago with the Venetian. Joey wrote the opening forward for your book. He did. Yeah, which was really sweet. Thank you. Yeah. I love him so much.

Just saw him yesterday. Oh, cute. Yeah, he's a sweetheart. I love him. I want to talk about your like panic. I like what you talk about in the book a lot. I think a lot of our listeners can relate to that, not and maybe in the terms that you experienced it, because you.

you were just starting a career at such a young age and, like, blowing up. I know my bedroom was lined with posters of Debbie Gitson. Oh, I was obsessed, obsessed with you. Oh, thank you. And to hear you talk about those years in the book, like, about how crazy it was and how your mom was a great momager, you know, and pretty much kind of the first momager. Yeah, especially in music.

You know, because, like, Brooke Shields had her mom, who was a manager-agent-type person. But yeah, in music, to be the momager of a young pop singer-songwriter, it's the whole thing. It's a very specific thing. Especially now because the landscape is so different. Like, you know, when you were coming up, it was like you and Tiffany. Those were the only two young girls that were out singing. And now there's like this array of, you know, from Taylor Swift to Chaplain to Charlie XX to, you know, Gracie Abrams. Like there are so many young people coming up right now.

Right. It's just its own lane now, but there was no lane at the time. And people forget. There was no lane. And it had been a good decade since Carol King. And even like I think about Linda Ronstat and her theater crossover, that had been a minute. Like I was kind of, I was at the forefront of my generation doing it. And so the machine wasn't ready for it, didn't know how to do it. Well, and you were writing all your own music, which nobody else was, you know, your age was doing that at the time. Yes. And then the men in suits had nothing to do. Right? Right? By the way, every day I think of a line, like that's a line I wish was in the book. It's not. It's just here on your podcast. But like every day I wake up and I'm like, why didn't I phrase it that way? It's so great. It's like encapsulates. I probably could have saved a whole paragraph by writing that sentence. But that's what it is. The men in suits were used to, we're pairing this young girl who just stands on a stage and sings with an older male to write her songs because older men really know what young girls in high school are thinking and why. to hear musically right it didn't make any sense to us and so my mom was literally my daughter knows how i always channel her whenever i like read excerpts from the book or do that like it's so visceral for me because i was there and she really truly was like she knows what this song should sound like and that producing to me was never a mystery it's i know in my head what i want to come out of the

speakers like when i watched the wham documentary i didn't realize i think it was a reef martin originally produced Careless Whisper and George Michael was like you're making it too complicated it's simpler and then he produced himself because I think ballads almost produced themselves so I was like no no this song I don't need a co-producer

I don't need a producer and they were kind of like what and I say it in the book with like the the suit shoulders going up and down I can picture it but it was kind of nervousness it was like what do we do with this this is new landscape but that ended up being my first number one

The songs that you wrote. Yeah, the two. It was my first and my second number one. And it put me in the Guinness Book of World's Records. And then I became the youngest and the second youngest within a year, which is nuts. Yeah. But also shouldn't be nuts. Right.

Right, right, right. And your mom really advocated for you and was sort of like a bulldog amongst all these like men in suits, as you say. But it seemed like she was very ahead of her time when it came to your panic attacks and that sort of thing, of understanding when you needed to take a step back and not just like put. like pushing you. Can you talk a little bit about that? Yes, yes. Well, talk about when that started. Like, when did your panic attack start? And now, obviously, we know what brought them on. But you talk about it. Yeah. And you know, you had started to say a minute ago, like, it's different for a lot of people in your audience maybe because, but I think like anxiety is anxiety. And anybody who has ever experienced, my heart's getting speedy and the walls

are closing in and I don't know where my next breath is coming from. And is this a heart attack or an anxiety attack or like what's happening and back then that wasn't on the tip of everyone's tongue and if you were a young girl in show business you were most definitely whining if anything was you know if you could go on stage too stressful yeah right yeah so that was and by the way that's what causes further panic attacks is like going no I'm good I'm fine I'm afraid I know I know I know instead of being like this is weird like you weren't allowed to say oh so I talk about it in the book when I had this dinner. Now, you know, we're always schmoozing in show business and we're still doing it and that's part of what you do. But it's weird when you're a teenage girl. And it's like,

oh, you will have a dinner with this. First of all, I didn't want to have dinners. And why does anyone want to have dinner with a teenage girl, Epstein? Like, what the fuck? Exactly. What kind of stimuli are you going to get from that? Exactly. It is that like you're the artist and you're the commodity and the label is delivering that the and you know my mom was there but it was still like she and i didn't go to dinners like somebody in the family cooked or somebody brought in mcdonald's home or like we're in the suburbs of long island like we're not doing dinners so i was sitting there and i had the inner model like i can remember the inner dialogue you know and i was really uncomfortable and like what am i talking about this guy about and i have a show in two

hours and i want to be like napping and warming up and like this is so weird and this is we have to do to get a record play? Like, this is so weird. And I just was like, oh, my God, I have to get up from the table. And by the way, I couldn't sit in a restaurant at a table, not only just because of the sense memory of it, but I just couldn't sit still for like three years. Wow.

I mean, it was really until... Yeah, and the book you talk about, like, being, like, with your family and having dinner and having to get up and, like, walk away from the table. And at that point, like, the feelings of, oh, God, my family's going to think I'm a diva, that this is all because I've become famous and I've, you know, I'm hitting.

it right now, but your mom totally understood that you actually like had such anxiety that you could insist. Because it was disruptive and I was never one to want negative attention. So if anything, like all I wanted was to blend. I wanted to be one of my sisters at that point. And by the way, I'm going to circle back around to this, but what you were saying about my sisters and my mom, she empowered all of us. Like it just was, it was, it was, she was ahead of her time because it wasn't even like waving the flag for it was just like well of course you can do anything oh right you're a girl oh whatever but of course like let's just just do what you do and it was all you know who wanted a college path and who wanted a showbiz path and who wanted a fashion designer path and everybody

had a different path so i love love that about her we just our visions were kind of far-fetched and seemingly unattainable and they happened and it just happens at whoever like at that age who like you need a, you need a guardian, you know, so like whoever, your mother has to go with you because you can't go by yourself. Yes. It's not like going to school. You're like going out into the real world with sleazy men. Like you have to have a guardian with you.

Yes. And she really became my manager by default, though, because she was good at business and she was the one most present and like literally and figuratively most present. And the thing I talk about in the book, because I also remember this so vividly. I had done the Metropolitan Opera's Children's Chorus for three years. And then I started doing like leads and little operas around New York. And there was this opera company that wanted me and they were like, it's $500 for the whole.

Now, she for all I know, was making $500 a week managing this doctor's office, right? Like that was like seemingly a lot of money. But she was like, that just doesn't feel right because you just finish singing in 12 languages and like you cite sing and like it's just she always knew my worth yeah and she said to the producer like that's not you know and then they tried to hire somebody else well they did hire somebody else couldn't cut it they called me and it was like can you learn the whole opera in two days for the same five hundred dollars and she was like deal and that's you know and so she just started doing that naturally you know she was she was cut out for that and so yeah but back to

the panic attacks, my favorite subject. I'm naturally an adrenaline girl and I'm always naturally also like a little fragile and fatigued. It's a recipe for that. It's like you're always in fight or fly and you're always like easily triggered. And that's why performing suits me. And that's why I could perform at the time, no problem, because my energy was heightened. And so all that adrenaline felt right. But sitting and just kind of being connected and dropped in didn't feel right. I see. Yeah. I think. a lot of people probably can relate to that feeling.

Yeah, and I still get social anxiety. Like, people see me on my Instagram and I'm outgoing, but I have a hard time leaving my house once I'm in my house. I'm a little like, oh, you know, the thing we see on Instagram with the peanuts, it's too peopley out there. It's like two peopley out there usually for me. So what is your life like now in Vegas? Like, what's your whole life like now?

You know, it's very work-centric. Like, the balance is definitely off. I'm the person who, if I don't have a rock. in relationship or a social life that's cohesive. Like, I have a very small amount of friends in Vegas. Like, here, there's always people to see in groups of people and things to do. But I like that about Vegas for me right now, too, because the last five years I've been rebuilding my health and my career.

And honestly, I can't do it with a social life, a big social life at the same time. Right. So that's been the focus. Talk about rebuilding your career, because I know you were in financial trouble, right? And you, like, what happened? You know, I left the major label. I left Atlantic at 21, left millions of dollars in advance money. And the time it took for like that concept to catch up to me and my mom that we were indie.

Like right at the moment I left should have been like, we can't have a Manhattan office and I can't be spending this on clothes and we can't be, we can't have five employees. So we kind of kept that party going probably too long. And we had the big, I call it the house that pop music built. We had it for too long. It took too long to sell. And then I was moving out and moving into the city and on my own. And so it just, everything caught up to us, really. That's scary.

It is. And then I did Playboy. And when I did Playboy, everybody was predicting, oh, you're going to make this. I always love saying on the back end. I love saying back end and Playboy in the same sentence. Everybody was counting the money before it came in, which often happened. and showbiz, and it just all, you know, the dollars and cents started to not work out. But what did they think you were going to make money off of Playboy with?

Well, because you get, like, back-end sales, but they didn't put me on the cover cover because I didn't show enough. And so it wasn't as big of a, like a presence. I see. I didn't realize you get back-end when you pose for Play-Boy. Yes. That's actually, like, the bigger. You get like a, yeah, you get a nice pay date, but then that's to be right.

Or at least they tell you you're going to get the back end. And I had never had a mortgage in my life. And my business managers at the time were like, yeah, so I didn't enjoy that. I was running to keep up. And in showbiz, you know, you know, it's like as much or more, mostly about what you say no to. Because the minute you start taking those gigs, it's such a slippery slope. And so, and that was a time of reality. it was a time of like five grand to go pretend you're shopping for this house or this huge apartment

that you're really. And so I started doing those things and that just started to feel really bad. Oh, yeah. And my health was suffering. I couldn't work as much suddenly. I got Lyme. Listen, I either got Lyme disease or I had it for ages and it came out and took me over when my life was in disharmony. And my mom was, you know, you either in this.

business change with the times or you age out and she had her old school mentality and there was that whole 100% of nothing's nothing mom like it's a different time like you have to there was just I felt things changing right right the music industry right and that changes all the time you know I always say this to my manager now Heather who actually worked for and she's like solely responsible for the rebuild that if my mom was around right now when we're like quick who's like what's her at And wait, we got the credit wrong on this and we're tagging. And did you invite to collab and would we, oh, God, wait, I got to delete and start again. Because the timing, my mom would have been in a constant state of fight or flight, even if she had an assistant doing things for her.

Right. You know, she just was of a different time. And she was a, you wrote the song. We're protecting. Now you're, I'm giving away, somebody created the riff in the intro and we're giving them a piece of the writing. And I'm like, nobody's reading the credits anyway and who cares. Like, just get the song out. But she wasn't of that, you know.

I remember a big fight we had. It's funny now to me. And this was just such a poignant moment in things are transitioning for a while had like a little red piano, little baby grand that would show up on stages for, you know. And it was like, I was doing a club in West Hollywood. And it was like, I got you that piano.

And then I hear directly from the booking agent because people feel they could come to me. Like, your mom raked us over the coals about this piano. And I was like, mom, we're not micing a piano at a club in West Hollywood. It's like better to have a keyboard and it's going direct. And we don't need the visual of that anymore. But she was trying, you know, it had to be hard for her because she was there for Madison Square.

She got me onto that stage at Madison Square Garden. And she fought for all those things. And she didn't want to let those things go. You know, and that makes me emotional to think about and talk about. So, you know, and nobody gives anybody grace. in this business. So it was, you know, or credit, or credit. And, you know, to think that, so then I talk about this in the book, too, she's on, I see her

from agents that your mom wrote a big, long, emotional email again. And I'm like, because she can't be neutral about the fact that you all have me as a name on a list when she knows what I do. She knows what I do. Yeah. And I've always done more than people know I can do, right? So it's like, I write and I create. I'm always like, somebody hang a shingle.

for me have a lot of incredible ideas, relevant ideas. But, you know, there's a way to go about facilitating that. And she, she banged her fists on the table because that's what she knew. Well, and one thing I gathered from your book was, I think this is very interesting, is having a parent who has such a strong personality like that, you know, you speak very glowingly of your mother, but then also talk about some of the difficult things you went through like you're talking about right now. And I think right now, especially there's a big movement of my parents are either perfect and amazing or we're done and I'm cutting them off or whatever. But I think people can be, people are complicated, especially parent relationships.

Like they can be both things. A thousand percent. Like I even taught, listen, I spoke to Betty Buckley for like three days before I wrote the chapter about her because nobody wants Betty Buckley to wake up and be surprised about what you wrote about her in your book. And I love her, but she's a complicated woman. And she and I talked about, like, she was like, Deb, the whole thing is you had this stage mother that was eventually going to turn into Mama Rose, like, and I was trying to fast track

you getting there to really, but you were, you were protecting your mother so you couldn't let go as an actress in that role. When she was playing her mother. Right. Yeah. Yeah. This is a gypsy, right? Yes. Because, you know, at one point, there's a sign that says the mother of Miss Gypsy Rosalie is not allowed backstage. And at one point, Heather, who worked for my mom, so talk about a complicated little triangle took over. And my mom, Godlover, would just kind of raise a little hell backstage, right? And Heather was like, now my job as your manager is to keep you focused and keep that away from you. But it's your mother. Your mother hired me. So like, what do we do with that? But that was the place Betty was trying to get me to. So my point is in the book, I speak about both

sides of my mom, the side that was a stage mother and the side that was absolutely not a stage mother in the bad sense of the term. But I also say, in every soccer mom, every mom who's like, I want my kid to go to medical school or I want, you know, whatever the thing is, like I think every parent is a stage parent in some way, living a little vicariously through maybe some,

if their kid has a talent that they didn't have, or just wanting to give them an opportunity they didn't have. And how did your relationship with your mom affect her relationship with your other three sisters? You know, I wrote this scene in a Hallmark movie I did where my sister Denise, who I made the character named Denise, and I talked about like, I'm so sorry I ruined your childhood. And she was like, you didn't ruin my childhood. I never blamed you for anything.

Like I was, I just was like, Deb's doing what she loves to do. But I did take my mom's attention away, for sure. You know, it was like a Deb-centric house. household. And so my younger sister probably got the worst of it because my older two sisters were off to college and all of that. And I think that sometimes they were like, Deb and her concerts. And then they were like, can we get tickets to, right? You know, everybody also enjoyed it. Like, they all enjoyed the house and the parties and the meeting, the people, and the perks. But my younger sister, Denise was essentially, like, partially raised by a housekeeper.

So I think she felt like she missed out on my mom a little bit. Mm-hmm. That makes sense. And how do you feel when you reflect on your, like, early success and then, like, you're struggling later on, you know, the way that your career arc has gone. Like, when you think about it, which you, you know, reflect a lot on in this book, how does it, how do you feel about it, everything? I mean, like, I love where I've landed now. When I wrote the book, I was like, wow, I've been through a lot of stuff. Like, I really, like, at any given point, I could have just, you know, bowed out, probably. And then, like, the health challenges was like a free pass to bow out because doctors had me heading in such a different direction where I literally could have been like, well, I'm, I just can't work anymore, like if I want it. But I always, I'm a survivor, you know, and I'm a thriver. I was like, I don't even want to just survive. I want to like have a badass second act. See, the thing is, I kept thinking I was in a second act, third act. I'm now in a true second act. And all the rest was me trying to, well, I was trying to figure things out.

And I was doing a lot of theater because theater was a pure thing for me. Like, you go, you play a role, you deliver, people respect it, you have a great time, you're one of the gang. It was like a clear cut thing that I could do. But at the same time, like my spirit's rock and roll and I need to do my own thing and my own music. It was on Adam Carolla show yesterday. And we were talking about this. I said, if only you had a crystal ball to know when, no matter how fast you're dancing,

no matter how hard you're shaking the trees. It's not your time. Like, people are not embracing you, the error you came from, whatever the thing is. It's like numerology, right? It's like, these years are going to be. Jimmy Van Pat is one of my best friend and his mom, Pat, reads numbers.

She basically told me right before, like, the relationship that was going to, like, it was great, well, it was great, and that it wasn't. And she basically was like, your life's going to be, it's just going to suck for eight years. Did she?

Yeah, and it did. And what years were those? I came out of it. It was like up till four years ago or five years ago. Oh, wow. Like the mixtape tour kind of was one of the turning points. Dancing with the stars was me like, all right, I'm going to fire up the engines, which I did a little too soon, like I wish I was doing Dancing with the Stars now because

I could have done a lot better, but that wasn't the point of it for me then. It was like, I'm going to tell my body that I'm not old and debilitated and sick. Right, right. I'm just going to do that. And I made it to like, it was like I left right after Barbara Corcoran. like third or something. I love her, by the way. She was amazing.

You know what I love about it is? I did a lot of things. I didn't overthink. Like even when the sci-fi movie moment came up, I was like, I don't have a movie career to kill. So what do I have to lose by battling a giant shark and driving a submarine? I told Chilmike, I love a cheesy shark movie. I love the Meg.

I was weirdly at the forefront of the shark movie craze. I was like, I was a guinea pig or pioneer, depending on how you look at it, right? And my agent at the time, David Shapira, Shapira with an A, was like, I got this little movie and it's like they're paying, they're not paying a lot, but, you know, if you want to do it, nobody's going to, it's like a cult thing, it'll be a fun. And then the day the trailer came out, it was like a half a million hits on the trailer because the shark was eating the Golden Gate Bridge. And I was driving a submarine. But I mean, it was just, it was awesome. But my point is, I've done a lot of things that make me giggle. I've not taken myself that seriously.

I take what I'm supposed to take seriously, seriously, and I don't take the rest seriously. Well, that's a gift right there. I feel like it is. And so when I look at my life, I go, you know, I name a chapter my way and all the boys have a rendition of my way. But I have done things my way for better or worse. And what about your love life? How do you feel about that? That's like the, okay, so you might relate to what I'm about to say.

The people you want are in my book, the person I've wanted to step up has intercanters off in another journey, we'll say. And then the guys that do things the right way, you're like, they're just not it. Or people are so like, what I have in my life is either someone DMs me and they've got like a little bit of stature or whatever and they have a future planned. They're like, hope you like to travel and like to do this. And I'm like, I don't know you. I mean, maybe, but I'm such an organic love person. Like I have to, it just has to unfold. And I'm at the point where like I said at the beginning of this conversation, if it's not naturally unfolding, I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing. And that'll appear if and when it's supposed to. And with regard to the person that hasn't stepped up in your life, because a lot of our listeners are trying to navigate. in or out of relationships or, well, mostly out of relationships, or they're looking for a relationship.

But, like, talk to me about how you, what you decided, how you decided to move away from that when you were getting what you wanted. Right. Well, that's a great question. And have I fully moved away emotionally is the real question. Because what happened was this person, like, reappeared in my life. And I was like, oh, my God. I was a thousand percent sure.

I was like, this is my person. I never even thought I would have a person. This is my... And, you know, I'm a, like, I'm that soul connection person, and I am, I guess you could say the cliche in it is, I see this person's potential or this... But it has not happened. I could kind of sort of...

It was a thing that wasn't a thing, that was a thing that wasn't a thing, and I'm very much in touch with this person all the time. And I have friends that say, hey, if you really want to emotionally disconnect, you have to get away from that person. not communicate, but I'm not that person. So there was no singular event. It was just, it's not a, like, it's something you desire that wasn't happening.

Yes, and it still, it still affects me. So this person still affects me, but I'm getting better with that because I've decided I want this person in my life. I want to be friends. I want to embrace the situation he's in. But I'm trying to learn how to not be as affected. it and to really accept that, okay, whatever I think could or may or may have in the past or may in the future, what's happening right now is it's not happening. So I'm still working with it.

I'm still in the process of it. And I shared it in the book and people close to me were like, you sure you want to share this? Because I was well aware that it was the scene in never been kissed. And I was Drew Barrymore and I was standing in the middle of that field. And it could be like, and he's here with me in the waiting room and we're together, right? It could have been that from when I was writing it. Right.

Or it could be this, which is it's not happening. And I wanted to be vulnerable about that in the book because first of all, nobody is all work, work, work. We all have those situations and those feelings.

And I wanted to be okay with, okay, if it doesn't work out, it doesn't go the way I want, that's what I'll be talking about. And like you said, so many people are feeling that and going through that. And it's, honestly, it's just, it's not fun. It's, it's inspired endless songs, which has been great. But it's emotional to even think, oh, I'll record these

songs for my next album and then I'll be living that. But that's what we're here for and that's what artists are here for. You know, that's right. But it's tough. Yeah. It's tough. On that, I will take a break. And we'll be right back with Debbie Gibson. Not to be confused with Deborah Gibson. or what was their other pitch for you to go by Debbie? Debbie G. Debbie G. Which like it was so funny that you said like, oh, that sounds like a one-hit wonder. Because it absolutely does, but I wouldn't have thought of that.

Stacey Q, Debbie G, yes. This week we're looking for questions from folks who are or used to be in the military. Your question doesn't have to necessarily be about your work in the military, but bonus points if it is. Please write in to Dear Chelsea Podcast at gmail.com. Hi, my name is Enya Yumanzo. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you.

But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. A foot washed up.

a shoe with some bones in it. They had no idea who it was. Most everything was burned up pretty good from the fire that not a whole lot was salvageable. These are the coldest of cold cases, but everything is about to change. Every case that is a cold case that has DNA right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime.

A small lab in Texas is cracking the code on DNA. Using new scientific tools, they're finding clues in evidence so tiny you might just miss it. He never thought he was going to get caught. And I just looked at my computer screen. I was just like, ah, got you. On America's Crime Lab, we'll learn about victims and survivors.

And you'll meet the team behind the scenes at Othrum, the Houston Lab that takes on the most hopeless cases to finally solve the unsolvable. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What would you do if you'd be? one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on earth. Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced.

He said, you are a number, a New York State number, and we own you. Shock incarceration, also known as boot camps, are short-term, highly regimented correctional programs that mimic military basic training. These programs aimed to provide a shock of prison life, emphasizing strict discipline, physical training, hard labor, and rehabilitation programs. Mark had one chance to complete this program and had no idea of the hell awaiting him the next six months. The first night was so overwhelming and you don't know who's next to you. And we didn't know what to expect in the morning. Nobody tells you anything. Listen to shock incarceration on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever for you get your podcasts.

I'm Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman, host of the psychology podcast. Here's a clip from an upcoming conversation about exploring human potential. I was going to schools to try to teach kids these skills and I get eye rolling from teachers or I get students who would be like, it's easier to punch someone in the face.

When you think about emotion regulation, like you're not going to choose an adaptive strategy which is more effortful to use unless you think there's a good outcome. as a result of it, if it's going to be beneficial to you. Because it's easy to say, like, go blank yourself, right? It's easy. It's easy to just drink the extra beer.

It's easy to ignore, to suppress, seeing a colleague who's bothering you and just, like, walk the other way. Avoidance is easier. Ignoring is easier. Denial is easier. Drinking is easier. Yelling, screaming is easy. Complex problem solving, meditating, you know, takes effort.

Listen to the psychology podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back with Debbie G. Okay, what are we got today? But you know, we were talking, we were talking about my love life. And I feel like I've heard you say things too about like you want like rendezvouses in every port, right? Is that what you're? Yeah, that's what I like.

And it doesn't turn into wanting one person to be the person. If it does, then it does. But I don't have the pressure. of I something has happened to me in my life where I just don't have the same like desire like I don't have the desire for a partner right I have a desire for adventure I need that same same and when I think about it in terms of that I always think about like when I meet someone and I like them a lot I'll spend more time with them or I'll commit to a relationship it's not like I can't do it right right right I just don't when I think about my life I feel like to me that feels

narrow and all the options available feel like more of a wide open operation for me. Right. And I want to move towards a wide open operation, not narrow. I got you. I mean, listen, like the reality for me, on one hand, I love the idea of partnering up, again, if it's going to enhance my life. But on the other hand, this is what I always say. When I'm in my kitchen and I'm like throwing chicken across the living room to my doxins, I'm like, who's partnering up in this scenario and I'm not giving this up. Right. Right. So there is a little bit of that too. I wake up in the middle of the night. I turn on whatever I want. Exactly. All that. Yeah, I eat food and bed, disgusting things. Same. Same. I go, oh my God, I think I want to go live in London next year for three

months. And I, you know, and so like I'm beholding to nobody, which is also awesome. But I am still a romantic. But I still don't understand how it works because I've never fully successfully made it work for any real length of time without like getting sick or like all these things that because I'm juggling too many things because I also only know how to do everything one way. So if I did it, I think it would have to be like seasonal where I go, all right, let's like really spend a lot of time together these three months and then I'm going on tour and then maybe you can come out and meet. Like I don't really know technically how it works. So I have a little bit of that rendezvous mindset. I love the word rendezvous. I like it. I like it. I like it being put that

way. Yes. Well, our first question comes from Tracy. Tracy says, dear Chelsea, I've been a queen most of my life, but after some career and therefore wealth downturns following a divorce and my menopausal looks, not good, I'm feeling like a loser. I know I'm not, but feel so down and I'm feeling jealous of my ex-husband's new girlfriend. I hate that about me, but I haven't been able to stop myself. I'm especially worried that my kids might start to like her more than me. I have to stop that immediately. Probably need therapy, but too poor right now. Please give me some advice. Tracy, who needs her groove back. Oh, my God. I know. We got to help her. Tracy, honey, stop that. You can't talk to yourself like that. First of all, you have to think of your children. You're like

their guiding light. You can't start thinking that they're going to like your husband's ex-husband's wife or girlfriend more than you. Like, you have to start writing things down that you like about yourself. You have to start getting up every single morning and having gratitude about the fact that you're no longer married. That's a huge victory. You have children that are healthy and happy. That's a victory. You are capable. So you lost your job. You're going through menopause. That's not the end of the world. It's a reset. It's an opportunity for a reset. Every divorce, like menopause, every major life change is an opportunity for a reset. That's how I think of it. Love that. Like, you know, even menopause, while it's so.

annoying and gross and so many bad things can happen from it. Like, that's another reason to get stronger, to get fiercer, to work out, to be more healthy, to be more conscientious about your health, about your food intake, about your alcohol intake, like all of the things. But like this pity party that you're having, you can't be a victim. You can't sit around and just feel like shit about yourself. You didn't do anything wrong. And it's up to you to get yourself out of this. So you've got it until you can afford, first of all, you can do better help. That's one of the sponsors of the show. That's really inexpensive therapy. But I would really start by starting to write every morning like 10 things that you're grateful for and that you mix it in with the things

that you like about yourself as a mother, the things that you like about yourself as a woman, the things that you're proud of. Just write those things down to remind yourself of your own innate value because we sometimes get lost in your eyes and we forget about our innate value. So I'm here to remind you that you have a lot of it. And you have very, are having amnesia. A thousand percent. I wrote a song called One Step Closer with DJ Tracy Young on my latest album. It's not new, but to you, it's probably new.

But there's a line in it about love, trust, and being enough. And it's one step closer to love. And sometimes when you step away from romantic love, you're one step closer to yourself love. And also, I do think, like, I'll echo just sometimes physical. Like, I started boxing recently. and going to that boxing gym and being one of the only females there like I'm not amazing at it

but I found it was a way of physically getting unstuck because I get in that emotional ball too like it just sounds like you're stuck a little bit and sometimes I think firing up the physical engines absolutely it's a way to start and you're around people who are like, good for you like go where your fan club is like find your people that are going to be

like you said, praising you, reminding you, remind yourself who you are, but get around the people who remind you who you are too. Yeah. And just to echo the therapy thing, there are tons of support groups online where you can go and like meet other women who are in the exact same position. So go take a look for some of those. Yeah. I know the women that a lot of women are in this I don't care club. I say be in the care club. I don't get it. I say be in the care about your self club and keep moving forward. Right, right. Well, I mean, it's good to not care about what others think, but it's good to take the energy you have towards what others think about you and invest that into yourself. And so we think it's like surrender and

relax a bit, but not to a point where it's, you know. Put that over the hat. I mean, you can do both. Well, our next question comes from Amy and she is joined by her friend Christina for moral support. And also she's referenced in the email. So her subject line is judgmental parents and seven siblings. Amy says, dear Chelsea, I'm writing because I could really use some guidance on how to deal with religious parents who are very intense and judgmental, especially when it creates tension between siblings. For context, I have seven siblings, all of us adults now, most living in different states. We all love each other, have stayed close, and talk on the phone in the group chat regularly. Although there have been countless examples of my parents

demonstrating the opposite of the Christian slash Catholic values they claim to so strongly follow, the most recent offense was a couple weeks ago. My parents refused to help my best friend in a tough position, only because she's been divorced. I am too, though, L.O.L.L. Although I passionately disagree, that is their right. But then they continued giving their opinion I didn't ask for on her co-parenting arrangement, which is amazing after a lot of hard work. They claimed it went against their beliefs and directly insulted her parenting choices. It felt cold and unfair, and it stirred up a lot of feelings

for me, mainly anger. I'm no longer religious, but some of my siblings still are. though not nearly as extreme as our parents. We all have different relationships with them and with faith, and I feel stuck in the middle. I don't want to cause drama or make anyone feel attacked, but I also don't want to keep swallowing my frustration and biting my tongue when something feels wrong. It was a lot easier when my parents moved out of state in 2020, following a cult leader. That's another story in itself. Sounds like it. Jesus.

I would keep the phone calls to a minimum and kept the topics light. Just a couple months ago, they moved back after a falling out with said cult leader. so now I can no longer hide behind a quarterly phone call. How do you speak up and set boundaries without alienating your family or upsetting your siblings who are trying to keep the peace? Amy and Christina. Hi, Amy. Hi, this is our special guest, Debbie Gibson's here today.

Oh, are you? I'm going to meet you. Good. Thank you. I can't believe your parents broke up with their cult leader. That hardly ever happens. I know. I know.

It was kind of crazy. We kind of anticipated it, but we're still shocked that it actually. happened. Well, I was joking. I mean, there's a lot of breakups that happened with cult leaders, but I mean, yes, your parents sound like they're very far gone. And I would not even be able to exist in this world, in this ecosystem, because I would not be able to tolerate that. So kudos to you for even being able to have any sort of control over your emotions or outburst or defense of your brothers and sisters, which I think is completely reasonable. I don't, I'm not a peacekeeper. I think it's important to express yourself, you know what I mean?

mean, and I think it's really important to stand up for people when they are, like, the situation you described about them insulting your sister's parenting? It's actually my best friend. Your friend's here with me, yeah. Oh, okay, so that's the friend. Okay, great. Yeah, she's here with me. And so what happened?

So it ended up where it just was let go, and nothing ever really, I never said anything. What did they say? What did they say to her, you? She said it, my mom said it made them feel really uncomfortable to have. my best friend and her ex-husband and their son just stay at their house. They had a baseball tournament and they were just going to sleep over for a night. It would have worked out really well. My parents lived right there. And they said, no, that she couldn't stay with them on the basis that she was divorced and it would be confusing for her child.

Oh, yeah, that's really stupid. But her, I mean, they're both amazing parents. They travel to, you know, his travel games together. And that's the only reason they were, you know, together. And their son is perfectly happy and fine. Of course. Of course he is. But you're dealing with unreasonable people. I mean, your parents just got out of a cult. So you're not going to be able to reason with them. You know what I mean? But like, and it's not your job to keep the peace. Like, if you don't want to deal with that or if you don't want to be around them, like, where are you at? Do you want to be with your family? Or do you want, what are your goals here? You want to stand up for yourself and your friends,

but you don't want to cause drama within the family? Yes, I would say that I don't typically have a problem standing up for myself or especially when it comes to my friends. I have a way better time standing up for other people than I do myself. But the problem comes when it's actually when my siblings want to get together with my parents or like just after that happened, my sisters wanted to go visit my mom for Mother's Day. And I was so upset that I didn't want to go. and it caused some problems there because...

Well, you can have boundaries without making it dramatic. You don't have to explain to everybody your reasons behind everything. If you don't want to go because you're upset with your parents, you're like, you can just as easily say I have plans. Actually, I have a lot of work to do. I'm behind on this. I already made plans. I didn't know it was Mother's Day and I committed to going to this.

Like, you don't have to bring people into your reasoning if that's what's going to create the drama. You just don't have to make yourself available to your family for any reason. You just don't have to. You don't have that responsibility. you have enough siblings that they can fucking pick up the slack anyway. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, thankfully they do with having children because they all have a thousand.

I have zero. So it doesn't have to be some huge fight. My family thinks I'm so dramatic. I'm like, I'm not even telling you guys anything. I'm just withdrawing. I'm withdrawing. I don't have the stamina or the bandwidth to deal with this. I don't have a desire to deal with this.

And so I just remove myself from the situation, you know. And if they ask, I explain. But I'm not creating drama. They can think I'm creating drama. But actually me showing. up would be creating more drama. So I am all for you, like, having boundaries and not explaining yourself. You're an adult woman. And, like, you know, them saying that about your friend, yes, that's upsetting. But, like, also, you kind of know what you're dealing with with them.

So don't ask them for favors like that. Right. I wouldn't want to, I wouldn't want to combine your beautiful friend's family with that energy anyway. So just like, yeah, yeah. I really have Like I have that policy in my household where you're just not, you have religious beliefs and it's against the LGBTQIA plus. You're not speaking that language in my house. Like it's not happening in my house. I'm not disowning all those people because there are people, even in my family, they were raised a certain way and it's religion and it's whatever the triggers are from whatever they went through in childhood or whatever. But I agree with Chelsea. Like it does, you don't need to keep it all in your airspace, you know, just I think life's too short to go into situation.

where you're, you're uncomfortable, you know, or you're not aligned. I think that's what I struggle with the most because it was always, you know, growing up, everyone believes the same things. Right, right, right. And then when somebody does something different. Right, and that is hard. You want to be one of the gang, but you don't want to be one of the gang at the expense of feeling like you're betraying your friend or if it is a day where you're like,

yeah, I can deal with whatever their beliefs are, it doesn't really matter. Or betraying yourself. Like, I, you know, it's like you have certain principles. do. Like if you're a principled person and you're like, this is, I don't want to be around this. I'm sorry. I don't agree with this. I don't like it. It makes me feel bad. I actually feel bad after being around it. Then, then you're taking care of yourself. Yes. I think you hit the nail on the head there is like, it's okay that I don't have, no one really has to know why I do things or like. Yeah, that's a great point. Just the fact that it helps me and it doesn't make me feel good or comfortable is enough.

Is enough. And no is enough, right? And your friend, what's your name? The friend. Christina. Hi. And I hope you don't feel bad or take any of it. But like, exactly. I was going to say, I hope you don't feel bad or take anything personally because it does sound like a whole rationale that's not in keeping with. Yeah. No, I'm, I was raised Catholic and but no like cult type situations. Like most people don't encounter that. No. Yeah, it's kind of a unique situation. I never remember how upset she was. And I'm like, honey, I'm like, it's okay. She's like, I didn't even want to tell you because, like, I felt so bad that they set these

things and made these judgments about you. And I was like, listen, you couldn't have hit it for me anyways if you wanted to because we've been best friends for how long. Like, I would know something was up. And I don't take that personally because if people don't like me, people don't like me. Like, good for you. Yeah, good for you. The way I choose to pair, the way I choose to parent, it works for me.

It works for my child. Right. And if no one else likes it, well, I'm sorry. Yeah. It works for us. Good. Good for you. All right.

Okay. Well, I think we solve that problem. Yes. Thank you so much. I needed to hear that. Thank you. Okay. Have a good day, girls.

Thanks, girls. Thank you so much. Bye. Bye. I am so sick of religion. I cannot express it enough. I am so fucking sick of it. Okay.

Should we take a little break and we'll have one more question to wrap up with? Great. We'll be right back with Debbie Gibson. Hi, my name is Enya Yumanzoor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD...

Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free eye heart. radio app search emergency intercom and listen now what would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on earth unfortunately for mark lombardo this was the choice he faced he said you are a number a new york

state number and we own you shock incarceration also known as boot camps are short-term highly regimented correctional programs that mimic military basic training. These programs aimed to provide a shock of prison life, emphasizing strict discipline, physical training, hard labor, and rehabilitation programs. Mark had one chance to complete this program and had no idea of the hell awaiting him the next six months. The first night was so overwhelming and you don't know who's next to you. And we didn't know what to expect in the morning.

Nobody tells you anything. Listen to shock incarceration on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A foot washed up a shoe with some bones in it. They had no idea who it was. Most everything was burned up pretty good from the fire that not a whole lot was salvageable. These are the coldest of cold cases, but everything is about to change. Every case that is a cold case that has DNA. Right now in the backlog will be identified in our lifetime. A small lab in Texas is cracking the code on DNA.

Using new scientific tools, they're finding clues in evidence so tiny you might just miss it. He never thought he was going to get caught, and I just looked at my computer screen. I was just like, ah, gotcha. On America's crime lab, we'll learn about victims and survivors, and you'll meet the team behind the scenes at Othrum, the Houston lab that takes on the most hopeless cases, to finally solve the unsolvable. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman, host of the Psychology Podcast.

Here's a clip from an upcoming conversation about exploring human potential. I was going to schools to try to teach kids these skills, and I get eye rolling from teachers or I get students who would be like, it's easier to punch someone in the face. When you think about emotion regulation, like you're not going to choose an adapt. strategy which is more effortful to use unless you think there's a good outcome as a result of it if it's going to be beneficial to you because it's easy to say like like go you go blank yourself right it's easy it's easy to just drink the extra beer it's easy to ignore to suppress seeing a colleague who's bothering you and just like walk the other way avoidance is easier ignoring is easier denial is easier drinking is easier yelling screaming is easy complex problem solving meditating you know Takes effort. Listen to the psychology podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. Sorry, it's freezing here right now.

I know. I love this. I'm always like, I mean, we're rolling so hard today that we all forgot my hoodie in the car. Oh, well, you look cozy. This is nice. Well, our last caller today is Katie and her subject line is Help for a Grieving daughter. Dear Chelsea, I know sad subject line. but I know you'll have some good advice for me. I'm a 36-year-old woman, and I recently lost my dad to a battle with breast cancer. It's been a long two years for me because for the last year and a half, I was his full-time caretaker. I had to quit working and move home with my parents to take care of him while also trying to live life, which was nearly impossible to do. I have zero regrets about doing this, and I'm grateful I was able to spend so much time with him and my family before he passed, but now I'm in the dreaded grieving phase where I have to figure out how to keep moving forward while also finding myself again.

Do you have any advice to share on how you've worked through the grief of losing a parent and tips on finding yourself again after going through tough shit? Thanks, Katie. Hi, Katie. Say hi to Debbie Gibson. She's our special guest today. Hi, Katie. Nice to meet you.

Nice to meet you. I'm so sorry about the loss of your father. And what a wonderful act of love you gave him by being by his side for those last two years and everything that you did for him. I mean, that's beautiful. And you should be really proud of yourself for, like, you know, going the distance with him, what I would say is, first of all, grieving is completely natural. I can't compare it to my grieving my father because I was so ready for him

to die. So that's a two separate situation. But my mother, I wasn't ready for her to die. Right. So I can relate on that front. And I know you weren't ready for your mother to die. But I think you have to accept that there is a state of grief. And then that's okay. Like, you're okay. You can't fast forward your grief. That doesn't work. It has to work through you. and you also have to say like you have to wake up every day and remember think about what your father would want for you because he doesn't want you to suffer and you have to think like take him with you his spirit is with you always he's been such a big part of your life that even though he's not physically here he is spiritually a part of you he will always be a part of you and the part of like building back your life and getting through this time is by remembering what he remembering that and remembering what he would want and living with him in spirit not living for him but living with him in mind, you know, like, what would my dad want from me? Your dad wants you to be happy. Your dad wants you to be successful.

Your dad wants you to be selfish about certain things, you know, to make the best life for yourself. So I wouldn't judge yourself so much for the grief. I would just really try to move forward with, like, the knowledge that this is normal, you're normal, everything's fine, everything that you're feeling is fine, and that you want to think about a way to live your life out loud in a loud, brave way that will honor your father. Yeah, you sound just like my therapist.

Great, great advice. Yeah, I think it's more of like accepting that it's normal and being okay with emotions because, like, you know, emotions are rough. It's very isolating, right? When you don't know other people, that kind of goes through the same thing. And it was so long and such, it's good Ashkenazi Jew jeans is what got in. So, you know, if you're struggling with your vulnerability and being emotional, like, first of all, or your emotions, you should go online and find a of people who have just lost their parents.

Go to a support group so that you can sit there with people who are dealing with it and like fucking let it rip. Let it out and cry and, you know, like I can see you're about to cry right now. Just cry. Let it go. It's okay. You want this out. Like if you keep everything bottled up, it's just going to come and get you anyway.

Yeah. And so is that the part that you struggle with the most, like letting your emotions out? Oh, for sure. Yeah. I felt super, super related to your story when you, said you were like crying over trying to open a fucking orange during your like therapy session and I felt I was like if I don't go to a therapist in six months I'm going to be like exploding over trying to open an orange you know what I mean you're right so I felt super related to that story yeah

and you're in therapy I am but Friday's my last session because she's actually moving away so I'll have to find a new therapist but I did go to therapy yeah which is helpful because of your dad's death yeah yeah because I was like I'm not I'm going to completely avoid it I'm very avoidant. I'm like just kind of like stay busy, say busy and just kind of you'll go through it and get over it. And then I think he's helped a little bit kind of like be cool with having emotions because I think that's the part of like grief. You're like, okay, that is normal. Yeah. And also this invulnerability that we create when we're not allowing ourselves to be emotional will end up blocking other relationships in your life, intimate relationships. And you know, like you want to be

vulnerable so that you're accessible. Like I had a therapist once tell me this was about like the girls in my life, these young girls that say, like, as long as you can cry, you're accessible, like then we can get to you and you're recoverable. As long as you're vulnerable enough to be emotional, then we can make inroads. Make progress. Yes. Yeah. So remember that. And then focus on getting a new therapist and be really, obviously, you're going to be forthright. You're being forthright to me and right now, to all of us. But focus on really working through your emotions and letting it out, you know, just really have that be your goal.

in your father's honor. No, that's great advice. Because you'd be surprised, once you do let it out, then it's out. And it usually doesn't last for like, you know, you're like holding on so tightly, so tightly, so tightly. And for what? Like, once you cry in five minutes, you're like, okay, that felt good. I feel better. I cry all the time these days.

I had like a period of years where I didn't cry, couldn't cry. And now, I mean, I think I cry every day. But yeah, it's so good. But it also feels like because you, you do. did commit to his health in his final, what, two years it was? Yeah, about two years. And how long has it been now since he's gone? By eight months.

Okay, it's really new. Yeah, it's really new. Yeah, yeah, totally. And I would think because that was your focus for two years, too, that even becomes more intense, you're transitioning out of being that caretaker and trying to kind of find your own rhythm in your life again. So that's got to be really hard. So give yourself some grace for how hard that is.

And honor the moments where you are feeling emotional. Like, when you have a moment and you're feeling it, go to your car, go to your room, go wherever you can have some privacy, and let it out and honor that. Don't try to push it away. Don't try to keep busy. Like, even if you're out with a group of friends, say, and all of a sudden you're overwhelmed with emotion. If you don't feel comfortable just being honest with them, go outside, let it out and then come back in and be like, oh, I got a sad email or whatever if you don't want to share it with other people. But don't fight those feelings because it doesn't get you anywhere. I agree.

I totally agree. Okay, but make sure you get that therapist, okay? Make sure you get a new one. I know, I need a new one. Friday is my last sash, so I'm hoping to get another good one. I have a good one. We can get you his number one. He's an older fella, I like to call him.

Like, he's old, but he's like so. He's a channeler, he's sharp. He's amazing. Love it. Love it. Okay, well, thanks for calling in, Katie. Thanks, guys. I really appreciate it.

Okay, take care. Bye. Yeah, see you. Bye. Bye. I was trying to sing. right after like because I had shows and I had all these anniversary shows and it was so tied to my mother and singing and grieving it's not a good combo. Is it not? It's like you're crying

and everything's like you're stuck right there and you're like and let me sing this song that my mom helped promote and she's gone and yeah it was intense. Yeah I would imagine. Yeah. Her book is called Eternally Electric. Her name is Debbie Gibson. So buy yourself a copy. Thank you, Debbie Gibson. I'm so nice to see you again. This is so much fun. Yeah, so much fun. I put up New Vegas dates, by the way, for next year. This year, I will be there November 1st and November 29th.

Those are my last two dates this year. Then I start up again January 31st, March 7th, April 18th, and May 30th. And tickets are now on sale for all of those dates. Do you want advice from Chelsea? Write into Dear Chelsea Podcast at gmail.com. Find full video episodes of Dear Chelsea on YouTube by searching at Dear Chelsea Pod. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert,

executive producer, Catherine Law. And be sure to check out our merch at chelseahandler.com. Hi, my name is Enya Emanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD...

Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free I-HeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. Do you want to hear the secrets of psychopaths, murderers, sex offenders? In this episode, I offer tips from them.

I'm Dr. Leslie, forensic psychologist. This is a podcast where I cut through the noise with real talk. When you were described to me as a forensic psychologist, I was like snooze. We ended up talking for hours, and I was like, this girl is my best friend. Let's talk about safety and strategies to protect yourself and your loved ones. Listen to intentionally disturbing on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When your car is making a strange noise, no matter what it is, you can't just pretend it's not happening. That's an interesting sound.

It's like your mental health. If you're struggling and feeling overwhelmed, it's important to do something about it. It can be as simple as talking to someone or just taking a deep, calming breath to ground yourself. Because once you start to address the problem, you can go so much further. The Huntsman Mental Health Institute and the Ad Council have resources available for you at loveyourmind today.org. From viral performances to red carpet looks that had everyone talking. The podcast, the latest with Lauren the Rosa, is your go-to for everything. Be amazed. We will be right here breaking it all.

Damn. I'm going to be giving you all the headlines, breaking down everything that is going down behind the scenes, and getting into what the people are saying. Like, what is the culture talking about? That's exactly what we'll be getting into here at the latest with Lauren the Rosa. Everything Vienn is. To hear this and more, listen to the latest with Lauren the Rosa from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio at Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast.