Dear Chelsea - Let Them with Mel Robbins

Episode Date: January 2, 2025

Mel Robbins joins Chelsea this week to talk about the simple keys that changed her life and her new book, The Let Them Theory.  Then: A voter struggles to accept the values of those around her. A gay couple wants to start yet another podcast.  And a sister’s concern for her sibling may be the very thing driving them apart. * Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail] * Executive Producer Catherine Law Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert * * * * * The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Joel, the holidays are a blast, but the financial hangover, that can be a huge bummer. If you are out there and you're dreading the new statement email that reveals the massive balance that you may have racked up, well, you could use our help. That's right. I'm Joel. And I am Matt. And we're from the How To Money Podcast. Our show is all about helping you make sense of your personal finances so you can ditch

your pesky credit card debt once and for all, make real progress on other crucial financial goals that you've got, and just feel more in control of your money in general. You know it. For money advice without the judgment and jargon, listen to How to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Do you want a shortcut to the best version of you? Here it is. Feed the good wolf. I'm Eric Zimmer, host of The One You Feed. Every week, I talk to brilliant minds and brave souls about the art of small, powerful choices. Our listeners say it all. This is a lifeline.

Transformational. The best antidote to a bad mood I've ever heard. Join the pack and start feeding your best self. Listen to The One You Feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together, our mission on the Really Know Really podcast is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why the bathroom door doesn't go all the way to the floor, what's in the museum of failure, and does your dog truly love you? We have the answer.

Go to reallyknowreally.com and register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. The Really Know Really podcast. Follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The forces shaping markets and the economy are often hiding behind a blur of numbers. So that's why we created the Big Take from Bloomberg Podcasts, to give you the context you need to make sense of it all.

Every day in just 15 minutes, we dive into one global business story that matters. You'll hear from Bloomberg journalists like Matt Levine. A lot of this meme stock stuff is, I think, embarrassing to the SEC. Follow the Big Take podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. People, my people, what's up? This is Questlove. Man, I cannot believe we're already wrapping up another season of Questlove Supreme. Man, we've got some amazing guests lined up to close out the season. But, you know, I don't want any of you guys to miss all the incredible conversations we've had so far. I mean, we talked to A. Marie, Johnny Marr, Eve, Jonathan Schechter, Billy Porter, and so many more.

Look, if you haven't heard these episodes yet, hey, now's your chance. You've got to check them out. Listen to Questlove Supreme on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Happy New Year, everybody. Happy New Year, Catherine. happy new year everybody happy new year katherine happy new year it's a new year 2024 is over 2025 is here let's get queer let's get used to it let's please do also we are now airing what are we doing on YouTube now, Catherine? Airing our full episodes or clips? Yes, we have full episodes available on YouTube, as well as some older episodes that we're putting out now.

So check for the weekly episode. They go up on Thursdays, just like the podcast. And, you know, we throw in an extra old episode for fanzies. Okay, great. Once in a while. Okay, yes. People ask all the time where they can watch the podcast.

So now you can watch it and it's the full episodes, right, Catherine? Yes, yeah. Oh, great. This is awesome. Yeah, you're gonna love it. And you have a book coming out imminently. I have a book coming out.

I'll have what she's having ready for pre-order. It comes out on my 50th birthday, everybody, February 25th. And you can also watch me on E! on January 12th for the Critics' Choice Awards. I'm hosting again. So I will be doing that. Then on February 25th. And you can also watch me on E on January 12th for the Critics' Choice Awards. I'm hosting again. So I will be doing that. Then on February 25th, my book will be coming out. And then I have another surprise in March. So many surprises. I know so many. I'm excited about the new year. I'm excited. Do you have goals? Do you set resolutions? No, no. Come on, Catherine. I

don't have that time for any of that bullshit. No, but we do have a very, very special motivational New Year's guest who everyone is going to love because she's all over the place right now with her new book. She's an author. She is a mindset coach and host of one of the most listened to podcasts in the world. Please welcome Mel Robbins. We have Mel Robbins here today, you guys, which is, I've ingested all of Mel Robbins. I don't think there's a thing about you that I don't know. And you still invited me. I know. I know. It's a lot. It's kind of like when people drown themselves in information about me, I always am like, I'm so sorry. And I ran and they're like, I've read everything. I've looked at everything. I'm so prepared for this interview. And I'm always like, I'm really sorry that you had to listen to all that, which is exactly

what you said to me when I ran into you the other day at some podcast we were both doing. You were like, I'm so sorry. It was Mel Robbins week at my house. So we are educated because I knew of you from social media. But then when I read your story in your new book, The Let Them Theory, I like that you also come up with your own theories. I love that. You talk in the beginning of the book about your story, which is incredible, that you were $800,000 in debt, and you were at the end of your rope, and you had no idea how you

were going to pay, and you had four children, and you had no idea how you were going to pay your finances, and you guys were broke. And I was also fucking furious with my husband because I thought it was his fault. Of course, it's always everyone else's fault. And then you decided one day that you just start practicing five, four, three, two, one. Yes. Well, the story is that I was having this moment. If you've ever had a moment in your life, and I know you have, which is why we like each other, where you literally find yourself talking to yourself out loud and you're saying, that's it. No more drinking. I'm not going to be a bitch to everybody. I got to find a job. I got to get in shape. I got to tell people what's going on. I got to take responsibility for my life. And by God, Mel, when that alarm rings tomorrow

morning, you cannot lay there like a human pot roast marinating in your problems. You got to get your ass out of bed and get those kids on the bus. And at that moment, I swear to God, a rocket ship launched across the television screen at the end of a commercial. And I thought, that's it. That's the answer. Tomorrow morning when that alarm rings, I'm going to rocket myself out of bed so fast. I'm not going to be in that bed when that anxiety hits. Now, I had had four bourbon Manhattans that night. So it could have been the alcohol that gave me that idea because I was drinking an awful lot back then. But that was the moment that changed my life because the very next morning, the alarm rang. And what's interesting about life, and when I show you this, you will never unsee it. And it's not my breasts, which we definitely don't want to see right now. We'll get a picture of those. We'll get a picture

of those. But there is this moment that defines your whole life. And it's this five second window. And it's the moment between knowing what you need to do and actually doing it. And we make a critical mistake where you know the thing that you need to do, but instead of doing it, you stop and consider how you feel about it. It's this moment of hesitation. And as soon as you drift from knowing what you need to do to thinking about whether or not you feel like doing it, in that five-second moment of hesitation comes the doubt and the anxiety and the procrastination. And what's happening in your brain, I didn't know this at the time, is that you're moving from being conscious to switching into the default mode in your brain where your patterns and habits take over.

And I had a habit of avoidance. I had a habit of blaming. I had a habit of anger. I had a habit of hitting the snooze button over and over and over again. Like kind of like a victim mentality, right? Oh, a thousand percent. Because my problems felt so overwhelming that my response was to freeze. And I didn't think anything that I was going to do was going to matter. So why do it? Right. And that's what I find is a massive challenge for most of us. That we all know the little things that we could be doing that would make us a little happier or healthier, right?

Right. That seemed like an uphill, almost insurmountable to even get there, but they're not insurmountable. They're not insurmountable, but if you have the opinion, well, why does it matter? Because in that moment when the alarm rang and I remembered the rocket launch and this window of hesitation opened and I go, I don't feel like getting out of bed. It's dark. It's cold.

It's February in Boston. We're $800,000 in debt. How is this going to help? And for whatever reason, I just started counting backwards, just like NASA does, five, four, three, two, one. And I stood up and it was bizarre. And that was the first morning that I had gotten out of bed when the alarm rang in months. And so I went on with my day. The next morning, same thing. What were you doing before that? You would just, your alarm would go off and you would just sit in bed and lie there? I would rot in bed like most people. And just going over your problems? I mean, if you think about those moments where you wake up and you either hate your job or you're in a crappy relationship or you're not happy or you're

struggling with something, you wake up and you don't want to face the day. And so instead of facing the day, which would help because once you get up, you can keep going typically, I would lay there. And as I would lay there and stare at the ceiling and that feeling of dread would come over my body, my mind would then take over and start racing through all the problems that were going on. And they just started stacking up like a gravity blanket pinning me there. And then when you feel that, you don't want to wake up. What you want to do is avoid the day. And so I would hit the snooze button to try to fall back asleep because I'm hoping that I'm just waking up in a nightmare. This isn't actually

my life. And then ultimately it would get to the point where the kids are standing next to me and the bus is already gone. And now I'm like, okay, here we go again. And it's stunning how the smallest things can feel impossible in life. Impossible. And what I know now is there's so much that explains why we're wired this way, but I didn't know any of this then. I just knew that my life was falling apart and everything that I cared about was circling the drain. And there was absolutely nothing I was doing that was helping. And yet I knew the little things that could help. I mean, obviously if you don't have any money and you can barely put food on the table, you should get a job, right? If you are drinking every night and then waking up with a hangover, it's not helping you face this stuff. And so avoidance

became a chronic habit for me. And this one little tool, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, and pushing through this sort of insight that, oh my God, there's a window of time between knowing what you need to do and then your brain killing your motivation to do it. And if you act in that window, whether it's speaking up at work or starting the hard conversation or getting your ass up off the couch and- Or an example you use in the book is like, you know, someone asking you to dance and it being a great idea, but then you think about it and you're like, do I want to be dancing in front of all these people? Do I actually want to get up and dance? And in that five seconds, you lose your mojo when you could have been

dancing this whole time and having a good time. Yes. And so, you know, one of the things that I point out that I love to point out when I'm teaching this is if you think about the most famous tagline in the world, just do it, right? Those three words, right? Just do it. What's the most powerful word? Do. No. It's not it. It's just. It's just.

I'm going to explain why. If Nike's tagline had been do it, that's not it. It's just. It's just. I'm going to explain why. If Nike's tagline had been, do it, that's not that inspiring. The word just acknowledges both your humanity and your potential. See, they're calling you from the sideline and inviting you to join in the game of life. They're saying, I see you there. I see that you want this. And I see you doubting yourself. I see you questioning yourself. They're acknowledging the only thing that is stopping you. And it's that moment of hesitation where you stop and

think and you question yourself. And that was my whole life. And so discovering this little tool, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, both acknowledge the just, you're hesitating. And it became a tool that helped me push through anxiety or fear or procrastination or old habits to do the little things that actually are everything. Just one small move at a time. And so then this led to you getting up and realizing that you wanted to be a motivational speaker, right? And within that, when you're talking about the little steps you have to take in order to succeed and build a life that you want, you were motivationally speaking without getting paid in the beginning. Yeah. So what happened is I used the five-second rule to turn my life back on track over the course of three

years. And so I am in my life outside of Boston, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, networking until I get a job. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, finding a second job. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, going for walks. Like just one move, one move, one move, one move, in complete survival mode. Like I'm trying to pay bills. I'm trying to get these kids to school. I am trying to keep my marriage on track. I'm trying not to be a raging bitch to everybody. I'm trying not to drink myself into the ground one move, one move, one move at a time. And so I had never told anybody about it because first of all, it sounds stupid. Oh, Chelsea, you want to change your life? Count to five. I'm out. Podcast interview's over. And I also had no idea why it worked. I almost felt like maybe I'd been given this little magic trick.

Maybe I was a witch. Maybe there was some sort of spell I had learned. And I get a call from somebody that I had gone to college with. And she's like, hey, Mel, there's this event happening in San Francisco. And they are offering two tickets to San Francisco and two nights at the St. Regis. And all you got to do is talk about career change. And you've changed your career so many times, I thought of you. Now, I don't think that's a compliment, but when you hear that and you're $800,000 in debt and you've got liens on your house, that sounds like a vacation, Chelsea. So I'm like, I'll do it. I had no idea what TED was. I had no idea what TEDx was. So I show up in San Francisco and it's

one of the first ever TEDx conferences. It's not even registering that I'm going to walk on a stage and there's going to be 700 people there. And so they didn't really prepare you. You got 19 minutes. I had a cheesy slide deck. If you watch my TEDx talk, you're witnessing a 21 minute long panic attack. Look closely at minute one and you will see a neck rash that is the kind of rash people get when they are drinking. And I'm darting around the stage. I did watch this.

Is this the one where Chris is in the audience, or is that a separate TED Talk? Oh, no, that's the one. That's the one. And so I'm darting in and out, all over the place. And I wasn't planning on talking about the five-second rule. I forgot how to end the speech. I remember that you were like, oh, wait, I have one more thing to tell you at the end.

And you're like, five, four, three, two, one, which is why I'm fucking here in the first place. Yes. And then the part that you didn't see, because I ultimately had to write to them. I was so disassociated at the end. I barely remember it. If I watch that video, I'm like, I don't even remember being on that stage. And at the very end, after I said, oh, yeah, I'm like, oh,'t even remember being on that stage. And at the very end, after I said, Oh yeah, I'm like, Oh, and if you have any questions, here's my email address.

And I walk off the stage and I say to my husband, honest to God, thank God that's over. Thank God only those people saw that. That was the worst moment of my life. And I went on with my life. A year goes by and TEDx puts it online. I don't even know it's online. Another year goes by and it starts to go viral. And I start getting messages at that email address. And people are like, I saw that thing you didn't. I'm like, were you in the audience? Like, no, no, no, it's online. And so I would stay up at night responding to emails from strangers because I was so blown away that this little thing that I invented was helping people stay sober or helping them lose a hundred pounds or helping them change

jobs because it's a tool that helps you go from thinking about something to doing it. Well, also it's also, it would be elementary if it was just five, four, three, two, one, get up. What you're explaining is that if you miss that little window, you're missing your day, you're missing your goals, you're missing your dreams. So it's what your brain does. And that's an integral part of it. Yes. And so then what happened is people started to write and ask if I would come like do that talk at events. Now, meanwhile, I'm a normal person. I think celebrities like you are people that get paid to do this. People have books, people that, you know, have some sort of thing to say and have credentials to talk about this stuff.

Like I'm basically somebody who's fucked up her life. And I figured out a simple thing to help me crawl out of the hole that I had dug for myself and then fallen into. And so I didn't even think that I would get paid to do something like this. So I show up at seven different events. And here's the irony. They were all women's events. So they're all women's empowerment events.

And I'm speaking for free. And I will never forget this. I was at the Pennsylvania Women's Conference. And this would have been probably 2013 or late 2012. And I was in a room. And the rooms are starting to get a little bit bigger. And so there were probably, I don't know, 700,000 people in there. And this woman comes up to me afterwards, honest to God. She says, Mel, do you mind if I ask you a question? I said, yeah, absolutely. And she says, you know, I spoke this morning at another breakout session and I just

thought you were absolutely fantastic. But I was just curious, have you gotten your check yet? I said, check? You got paid for this? And she took a step back and she went, oh, my God. I just assumed. I mean, you have a big breakout room. I'm like, you got paid for this?

Now, meanwhile, I still have liens on my house. And I'm thinking, I could make money doing this? And I thought, you are the world's biggest idiot, Mel. And then I had a Ted talk and I'm now starting to understand the value of it because it is really like a credential when it comes to keynote speaking. And so I came up with this little thing that anybody starting a business should steal. I basically said to myself, I'm going to use the five second rule to stop myself because you can use five, four, three, two, one to push yourself forward or five, four, three, two, one to put yourself in pause. And the next time somebody calls me and they ask me if I'm available, I'm going to five, 4, 3, 2, 1 to put yourself in pause. And the next time somebody calls me and they ask me if I'm available, I'm going to 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. And I pause and I say, yeah, I think I can make it. And then I'm going to say, what's your budget? And then I'm going to say 5,

4, 3, 2, 1. Normally I'm double because I didn't know what to charge. Right. So a couple of weeks later, I get a call and it's from a guy who's in Dallas. Then he's calling me to see if I can come down and give a speech at some big event where there's going to be a bunch of people that are small business owners in it. And I said, great. I think I'm available. How much is it? He said, $10,000. I dropped the fucking phone. I, that was like almost four months of my mortgage. Wow. I had no idea. I was expecting $500 and I pick up the phone. I forgot the second part about doubling the thing. And I'm like, yes, yes, yes, yes. And then a really important thing happened. I was so nervous and I felt so unworthy of that amount of money that I spent half of it with a graphic designer because I figured if I had a fancy presentation that that would make me seem fancy enough for that kind of money. And the nerves were really important and the preparation was important because there are moments in your life, these at-bat moments where you step up to the plate that you want to meet the moment. And because I prepared, I stepped onto that stage and I destroyed it. And he came up to me afterwards and he was like, I have been in this business 20 years. You are the single best female speaker I've ever seen in my life.

And you're top three of all time, period. Who runs your business? And I was like, you do. And he has run my business ever since. Oh, wow. In terms of the speaking side of the business. And that next year, 47 speeches. The next year, 99 speeches.

The next year, it was like 117. And, you know, I was so committed to paying off our debt and to paying our savings back. And because we had gotten into that hole because when my husband went into the restaurant business, when the first pizza joint was successful, we were complete idiots. We cashed everything out. We took out credit cards, a home equity line. We, you know, what could possibly go wrong? And everything went wrong. And so when the business started to do this, everything that we had worked our whole lives for, I was 41 years old, three kids under the age of 10, started going down the drain too.

And, you know, if you're somebody that believes in manifesting, which I do, I never made a vision board that was like divorce, alcoholism, bankruptcy. That wasn't part of the plan. And when things go off the rails in your life, it's funny. Like it's super easy to give other people advice because it's not personal. But when it's you and it's the things that you're scared of or the things that you care about that are breaking apart in front of your eyes, you have a very hard time believing that these simple things actually work for you. And so what the five-second rule taught me is it taught me that

there is a skill that we can all develop. And it's a skill of being able to act in spite of your feelings, being able to recognize when you're afraid or you're hesitating or you're doubting yourself and to either push through it or rise above it, but to allow your values or your goals or the thing that you really want to be driving your actions versus feeling held hostage by your emotions in the moment. Because motivation is complete garbage, in my opinion, because it's not there when you need it. And if motivation were available to us all at any time, we would all have millions of dollars and six-pack abs and billion-dollar businesses, and that would be that. Motivation simply means

you feel like doing something. And what I've now learned, both through the experts that we have on my podcast and all the research that I've done for this book in particular, is that our brains are wired to move towards what's easy. And when you're struggling like I was struggling, it's easy to stay in bed.

Yeah. And your brain is wired to push against and move away from whatever feels hard, which sets up a problem. And the problem is changing is hard. And so you're never going to feel like it. But you can do it anyway. And recognizing that it's going to be hard and recognizing that you're going to feel resistance, that's just part of the natural wiring your body, recognizing that. And then knowing it's a skill to go,

okay, this is going to be hard. Fuck it. I'm going. And that's what my success is about. Like my success literally boils down to the fact that I get out of bed on the days I don't feel like it. And every day I do the grueling, tedious, annoying crap that leads to incredible things over time. Well, right. And I think the productivity begets more productivity. Once you do get yourself out of that spot and you start to like work towards what you want to achieve, then that starts to become more of a habit, right? And

you're so you're getting yourself out of one bad habit, and leading yourself to better habits that are going to, I mean, that's the theory there. There's there's lots of ways I still screw things up. So we always I mean, that's exactly like I I'm always like, okay, positivity, optimism. And in the last two weeks, I'm like, get the fuck out of my face to anybody, you know, like, leave me alone. Don't ask me to do one more thing. I'm at the end of my rope. I'm like, get the fuck out of my face to anybody. You know, like, leave me alone. Don't ask me to do one more thing. I'm at the end of my rope. I'm like, I want to be euthanized. I said that to my sister the other day.

She goes, well, at least you're voicing it. Because if you really wanted to euthanize yourself, you would just do it. She's like, so I know you're full of shit. Anyway, I've been giving out your advice. Yesterday, we were on a podcast. I was like, listen, you need to just follow the let them theory for this one. It was two callers because we have live callers. Your most recent book that just came out, right?

This is just out. Yeah. The let them theory. Is it three children you have or four? Three. Oh, sorry. I said it before. Sometimes I consider my dogs and cats a child.

Oh, okay. Well, you didn't correct me. Sometimes my – who cares? Let them. Yeah, okay. Let you. Maybe there is another one out there. Let her say that.

Maybe. Or maybe you have another sibling you haven't met yet. That's why I won't do 23andMe. I don't want 23andMe. I don't want, I'm already paying for everybody that I've created. So I don't need any hangarons. And I'm sure some extras. The let them theory also would seem pretty basic, but it's not basic for all of us. It's like letting people do their things that really have nothing to do with you.

Yes. Letting go of control, basically. Yes. is like allowing people, if someone wants to be an asshole, if someone wants to be in a bad mood, if your kid doesn't want to go to a party with you, let them. Let them stay home. Let that person be in a bad mood. Don't try to tinker with their mood to make it what you want it to be. Yes.

Which is advice that obviously everyone can use and which is advice I'm very excited you're here today because we have people who call in for advice and it's nice to have another sister to lean on. So we're going to take a break and we'll be right back with Mel Robbins. Inside you, two wolves are locked in battle. One thrives on fear and anger and doubt. The other, courage and anger and doubt. The other? Courage, wisdom, and love. Every decision, every moment feeds one of them. Which wolf are you feeding?

I'm Eric Zimmer, host of The One You Feed. I've been there, homeless, addicted, and lost. I know the power of small choices to turn your life around. On this podcast, I sit down with thinkers, leaders, and survivors to uncover what it takes to feed the good wolf. This podcast saved me. It's like having a guide for the hardest parts of life. The wolves are hungry. What will

you feed them? Listen to The One You Feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 2025 is bound to be a fascinating year. It's going to be filled with money challenges and opportunities. I'm Joel. Oh, and I am Matt. And we're the hosts of How To Money. We want to be with you every step of the way in your financial journey this year, offering the information and insights you need to thrive financially. Yeah, whether you find yourself up to your eyeballs in student loan debt, or you've got a sky high credit card balance because you went a little overboard with the holiday spending, or maybe you're looking to optimize your retirement accounts so you can retire early, well, How to Money will help you

to change your relationship with money so you can stress less and grow your net worth. That's right. How to Money comes out three times a week, Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays for money advice without the judgment and jargon. Listen to How to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really Know Really podcast, our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like

why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor. We got the answer. Will space junk block your cell signal? The astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer. We talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you and the one bringing back the woolly mammoth.

Plus, does Tom Cruise really do his own stunts? His stuntman reveals the answer. And you never know who's going to drop by. Mr. Bryan Cranston is with us today. How are you two? Hello, my friend. Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park. Wayne Knight, welcome to Really, No Really, sir. Bless you all.

Hello, Newman. And you never know when Howie Mandel might just stop by to talk about judging. Really? That's the opening? Really, No Really. Yeah, really. No really. Go to reallynoreally.com. And register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. It's called Really No Really, and you can find it on the iHeartRadio app,

on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Dani Shapiro, host of the hit podcast, Family Secrets. How would you feel if when you met your biological father for the first time, he didn't even say hello? And how would you feel if your doctor advised you to keep your life-altering medical procedure a secret from everyone? And what if your past itself was a secret and the time had suddenly come to share that past with your child? These are just a few of the powerful and profound questions we'll be asking on our 11th season of Family Secrets. Some of you

have been with us since season one, and others are just tuning in. Whatever the case, and wherever you are, thank you for being part of our Family Secrets family, where every week we explore the secrets that are kept from us, the secrets we keep from others, and the secrets we keep from ourselves. Listen to season 11 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Good people. What's up? It's Questo, Questlove. And Team Supreme and I have been working hard to bring you some incredible episodes of Questlove Supreme with guests you definitely don't want to miss. Now, one of the things I love about this Questlove Supreme podcast is we got something for everybody, every type of musical ever. We enjoy speaking to the people who are the face of some movements

and some people you've seen on stage or TV or magazine covers, but we also love speaking to the folks who are making it happen behind the scenes and they pave the way for those that followed. You know, keystones to the culture. This season, we've had some amazing one-on-one conversations, like I'm Pete Peel chatting up with hitmaker Sam Holland, Sugar Steve chatting with the legend Nick Lowe, and I've had pleasures of doing one-on-one conversations with Willow,

Sonata Matreya, Kathleen Hanna, and The RZA. These are conversations you won't hear anywhere else. So make sure you go back and you check those episodes out, all right? Listen to Questlove Supreme on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back with Mel Robbins and her new book, which is called The Let Them Theory. You guys need to pick this up. It's a great read. And I think there's a lot of commonalities.

And you mentioned this within the book. You talk a lot about Buddhism or Stoicism or letting go. Well, hold on a second. Let me say something about this. I don't believe in letting go. You don't? God, no. Oh, I do.

Oh, I don't. Let me tell you why. I feel like the Let Them Theory and letting go are You don't? God, no. Oh, I do. Oh, I don't. Let me tell you why. I feel like the let them theory and letting go are similar. Not at all. Okay. See, I've never been able to let anything go because I'm competitive as hell. And when somebody says, Mel, just let it go, that to me means admit defeat and move on. And I don't like to let something go or feel like I have to just give up because it's out of my hands. And so I've never

been able to access that. To me, let them is very different because when you say let them, you're seeing what somebody is doing and you're allowing it without allowing it. And when I say, let it go, I feel defeated. When I say, let them, I feel superior. And so it's this tool that allows me to not only detach, but it allows me to feel in control and superior to the things that are irritating me or that are worrying me or that have hurt me. And so I feel it is very different in terms of the emotional experience and the psychological experience. I feel like letting go of things

isn't about giving up or defeatism. Like, I feel like when you can let go of something, it is very analogous to what you're saying. You're kind of rising above it. You're not giving into it. You're going, let that go. That's not for me. I don't, not I'm giving it away You're not giving into it. You're going, let that go. That's not for me. I don't, not, not I'm giving it away or I'm giving up. It's almost like that's not my business

either. Let that go. Let my grudge against this person go. Let that go. I feel like it is very similar, but you are the author and it doesn't work for you. So we'll agree to disagree on that. But all of these are modes and ways to not focus on what other people are doing and to focus on yourself and the things that you can control. And here's the reason why this matters. The reason why this matters is because you have no idea how much time and energy you are wasting on things that either don't matter or that you will never be able to control. If you feel tired or overwhelmed or you feel like you're last on your list

or you're just not as happy as you would like to be in your life, I'm gonna tell you right now, the problem isn't really you. The problem is you're unknowingly giving so much power to other people and that's what's draining you. And that's why you have no time.

And one of the enormous benefits of learning how to use the let them theory, both in relationships and in your day-to-day life, is it's the ultimate boundary between you and the world. Because you get to choose when you say let them, what actually impacts you and what doesn't. And what I was stunned by when I started using this thing is I could not believe, first of all, how many times I said it, so I must have a lot of anger issues

because I was in trouble, let them. I'm at the cash register and she went, let them. I walk in the front door and my dog is barfed right on the entry and my husband's home and he hasn't picked it up yet, let them. And it was like this little lever that allowed me to go from not stressed and on edge and kind of annoyed,

but actually just stay peaceful and unbothered. And when you can go through life like that, you get your time back and you get energy back. And that's time and energy that you can pour into other things. And your whole experience of life is determined by what you pour time and energy into. And so it shifts absolutely everything. Okay, great. I'm excited to take some callers. What do we have first for Mel? Well, let's start with Katie. She writes, Dear Chelsea, I don't really know how to write a fun, kitschy greeting with the current political climate. So I'm just going to get right down to

it. I always forget about the politics when we're doing this podcast. It's such a nice reprieve. I forget what's happening. I know. I'm sorry to remind you. I would appreciate not getting any letters like this. But I saw you address this, Mel, and so with Let Them Theory. And so I thought this was a good question for you. I'm a 34-year-old white liberal female with she her pronouns that was very unfortunately born and raised in a red state. I've always viewed myself as a positive and understanding person that accepts people's differences as a beautiful thing, as long as we're all treating each other with love and kindness. But with over half the country voting and electing such an openly hateful and dangerous human being, I'm really struggling to find any positivity in my day to day life.

I've gone to great lengths to build the community around me and to be supportive and safe for all people, but since announcing the new president-elect, I have discovered that a disgusting amount of my friends, family, and co-workers are actually celebrating his impending presidency. I've been crying, screaming, and raging about this for days, and I do not foresee any relief as I have suddenly found myself surrounded by hate and without any hope for a better future. My community has been dismantled, our democracy, our very basic human rights, and bodily autonomy are at risk. And there's a very big part of me that just wants to light a match and watch the world burn. How do I let go of this rage so I can move forward and try to find

a light at the end of the tunnel? I do not want to let this evil man turn me into a hateful and intolerant person. At rock bottom, Katie. Mal, why don't you take the lead on this? I'd love to. Go for it. I'd love to. There was a particular line in there that struck me. Can I see that?

Absolutely. Here it is. I've suddenly found myself surrounded by hate and without any hope for a better future. That was the line that hit me the most. Without any hope for a better future. And the reason why that line hit me is because this illustrates the problem with giving power to other people. Why on earth would you put all of the power for a better future in the hands of one idiot who's running this country? And how dare any of us forget the power that we have to make an enormous difference no matter what the hell is going on in our families,

in our communities, in our schools, in our relationships. You know what I can't stand is that when I think about relationships, I see a spider web. And when you're out in the morning walking, the dew hits the spider web, right? That means we're all interconnected. And we allow one person who has a narcissistic personality or toxic behavior or a challenging demeanor or really bigoted opinions to go in and tap, tap, tap that spider web and impact all of us. I believe something different. I believe that the person that is calm and peaceful

and rational and connected has more power than that person. And it's time we all start using it. And so it is appropriate to feel your emotions and let those emotions come up. And the reason why you're writing, I want to acknowledge, is important because you now understand that those emotions that are very mentally healthy response to what's happening around you. By the way, those emotions mean you're working well. It means your mind and your body are working the way that it should. So that's great.

And you're writing for help because you also know something else. You don't want any other person, whether it's your family members or the people that just got elected or what is going on anywhere around you to impact your mental health. And here's what I'm gonna say.

They don't have to. And the reason why you have to say let them is because the election's over. And the people that you care about have opinions that you do not understand. And arguing with them, we know based on research, just turns off the part of the brain that has anybody hear anything. And so being in conflict with people doesn't change them. It actually creates more resistance to hearing you or to changing themselves. And so when you say let them, you're not agreeing with anything. You're not allowing

anybody to trample you or your rights. And you're also not trying to convince anyone of anything. Yes. No. Because you can convince people. You're a highly influential person through your behavior and your energy. And people only change when they can or when they feel like changing. And when you give people the space to come to their own conclusions and you influence them through your behavior and energy, they change on their own. When you engage in arguments and battles and judgment over these things, even if your judgments are right. And by the way, they're judging you and they think they're right. You create deadlock. And that's what's wrong with the political system in most of the world right now is we're all in deadlock.

And so I'm not saying that what's happening is right. I'm not saying that, you know, there's not reasons to be nervous. What I am saying is this. If you don't let them, if you don't detach from this, you're going to allow the stress and anger and anxiety of uncertainty to hijack your brain. And you are not going to be able to think strategically, and you are not going to be motivated. And in a moment like this, what we need is more light. In a moment like this, your job is to glow. It is not to turn the light off. And so I say, this is the perfect moment to say, let them, because you recognize what's happened has happened. People believe what they believe.

Your power is not in managing that. Your power is taking responsibility for how you're going to respond. And let's even just look at the word responsibility. It's the ability to respond. And in life, you always have three things. You have three things within your control. This is where your power is. Number one, you get to choose what you think. So you get to choose what you think about what just happened. And more importantly, what you think you're going to do about it. Number two, you get to choose what you're going to do or not do. And I will remind you of that famous Professor Margaret Reid quote of, it only takes a small group of committed citizens to change everything. In fact, that's the only thing that ever has. And if you don't like what you see,

that person is you. And so you get to choose not only what you're going to do or not do, but you also get to choose, by the way, whether or not you're going to stay in a conversation or a dining room table or a family text chain or a conversation or a date or a job interview. You get to choose, which means you're in power. And you also get to choose what you're going to do with your emotions. And if you're tired of being angry, and I really acknowledge the fact that you recognize that this is no longer a healthy emotion for you, what I would focus on is I would focus on going inward, processing your anger, and then I would focus on you doing what you need to do to become the best version of you. Because when you do that, you are better prepared to face the challenges in the world, the things that you care about, and to get to work. because that's what we all need to do. Yes. Amen.

I agree with that. I think that when you feel depleted and you feel angry, you feel like you're at the end of your rope, you're in a weakened state. You are in a state where you're going to hate, you're going to blame, and you're going to feel hopeless. And it's your job to get you back into more of an activated state so that you can actually spread love

and joyfulness and kindness, even to the people that you disagree with, because that is the medicine that everybody needs. That's the medicine that's going to make you feel good about what you're doing. And that's the medicine that is going to spread around your community. Don't talk to them about politics. Just treat them like human beings and you don't know who they voted for. Like, even though you know, and it's bothersome to you, it's not your job to sit there and judge them. You know, like, we'll all see what's going to happen in the next couple of years. And it could be terrible, or it could not be so terrible. We seriously don't know. But acting or living in this kind of dread isn't useful to anyone, including yourself. So you have to figure out a way in the

next couple of days to 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, get up and do something different other than feel sorry and hopeless about the future, because that is not a way to effectuate change. You know, the other thing that I'm going to say is this. So there's a tool that I talk about in this book called frame of reference, because I'm never going to tell you that if there are people in your life that have very bigoted opinions or opinions about who you are as a person or your identity or who you love, you still are in control of who you spend time with and how much access people have to you. But that is a deeply personal decision.

What I have found to be incredibly helpful to me because one of my deep values is family and there are people in my life that have very different political opinions than I have. And so I choose, because I think we all need to get better at this, I choose, instead of judgment, to go, how the heck could somebody that I know

is a really decent person, then a smart person and a caring person, actually vote for this person. And so instead of pulling back, I let them have their opinions and their beliefs, right? Which creates space. It creates space for two things to be true. I mean, I think one of the reasons that there are families is because it teaches you how to love people you hate sometimes. And having the ability to give people the space to think what they think and to have their opinions about things, it's a way of loving people, even when you disagree with them. And so what I choose to do,

because I'm like, I don't fucking understand how you, like, I know who you are like this does not compute i go how do i step into your shoes and i actually understand why this made sense to you and i'm going to give you my personal opinion uh everybody's distracted every per unless you have a hyper bigoted like person most people are wildly distracted and if you look at the algorithms and you look at the way everything changed in terms of you look at one video, the algorithms show you 50,000 more videos, right? Most people are getting their news on TikTok. Nobody trusts any news source. And so you have all of this information going at people. And so you might have somebody go, yeah, but the Joint Chiefs of Staffs.

I'm like, 95% of people don't even know who that is or what that is or why they matter. And by the way, they didn't see it. And so now you have a situation where you have a tremendous amount of pent-up anger that is aimed at the government because of the lockdown and the pandemic, right? So people are in a stressed out state. In fact, Dr. Aditi Noorakar from Harvard, one of the most respected stress management doctors in the world, believes that 83% of people in the United States are in a chronic state of stress, which means your amygdala is on and you're in fight or flight. When you're in fight or flight, you can't really think critically. When you spend six hours a day on social media, which is what the research now shows

the average person does. Oh my God. I mean, kids, it's like 12. And I'm putting this in context, not to justify anything, but because I choose to want to understand and that's what we have lost as a skill in terms of human relationships.

And when I look at all of that and I go, oh, there's a lot of frustration and pent up anger that people have about what happened these last four years and how they feel about the new normal and hybrid work and the rise of cost of things. And everybody wants to blame everybody. Look at me when I was so in debt, who did I blame? My husband. And so it's easy to blame. And when you go into the election booth and you vote, you literally have the capacity to remember just about one thing. I remember this as a young trial lawyer when I was a public defender at Legal Aid. The OJ case was happening. And so a lot of our supervisors, when I was a public defender, would talk a lot about the fact that when you're doing a case, cases come down to the thing you want a jury to

repeat when they go back to deliberations. And if I had to say, even to my daughters who are in their 20s, if the glove doesn't fit, you got to acquit. You know exactly what case I'm talking about, even though this was decades ago. Please tell me the Democrats' tagline. Right. And whether you vote for one side or the other, the other tagline is nostalgic and personal. So everybody actually thinks it means something else. And so if you have people who are stressed out getting their news on TikTok, going in and going,

okay, well, who's going to do better by me? Guess who they choose? And so that's how I have come to rationalize, oh, that's how I understand, even though all these other things don't line up with your character, how you would make that decision. Right. And so, but this is the most important part. You get to choose. You get to choose. If the person's opinions are that offensive to you, you get to choose how much time and energy you put into it. And you also get to choose how much grace you are able to demonstrate for a person who

has such conflicting and opposing views. Because there's a lot of joy in that as well being graceful for another person's opinions that don't mesh with yours i think that's a nice skill set to learn and something you should think about you know moving forward once you get out of this funk which you are going to get out of this funk okay what do we have next katherine i want i want to get as many callers on as possible. Subject line is, Anxious gay with therapist husband seeks podcast help. Dear Chelsea, I'm a 39- Thank you for putting it in terms we can understand.

Yes. Oh, look, there they are. Oh, hi. So they say, dear Chelsea, and this comes from Anthony at first. He says, I'm a 39-year-old married gay man. My husband, Justin, and I have been together for 12 years and married for almost two. He's a licensed therapist, very level-headed

and soft-spoken. And then there's me, not a therapist, slightly neurotic, a bit of an oversharer, and kind of all over the place. Think the gay version of Jenny Mullen, obsessed with his exes and all. A lot of our friends find our dynamic fascinating and entertaining, so I thought, why not start a podcast? Maybe even a YouTube or a TikTok account where we give opinions and advice on anything and everything. Who wouldn't want to get guidance from him, a real therapist, and their kind of messy but well-meaning friend, me? It sounds fun, but we have no idea where to start. Also, the world already feels flooded with influencers and content creators. So falling into that category is kind of embarrassing to me. That alone makes me almost want to abandon the

idea. Love the podcast. It's where I got this whole ridiculous idea from. Love, Anthony. And I guess Justin. P.S. I haven't told him we're writing this in yet. Hi, boys. Hi, how are you? Well, you're in luck because we have a real ringer here today. Mel Robbins. Yeah. So first of all, there is no bad podcast idea because as it has been proven, everyone can have a podcast. And so having an idea in and of itself is always possible. But if you're poo-pooing the idea or if you find the idea embarrassing, that's not how

you launch a podcast. You have to be committed and fully into it, because I do think, I mean, just listening to you, I'm like, yeah, why wouldn't that be a podcast? There's a lot of gay couples out there just to start with that would be interested in getting, you know, feedback from another gay couple. Yeah, I don't know. I guess mainly it's just not knowing really where to begin, to start. Yeah, really. i don't think that's your issue oh this is mel robbins when anthony says embarrassed it's that's more of how he describes his anxiety um he his what your instagram bio is embarrassed about everything yeah it's everything no no let

me tell you what your issue is you ready yeah? Yeah. Oh yeah. I know. I'm serious. Your, your issue is very clear to me. And the issue is you're giving power to other people's opinions. I do that a lot. Yes. And so I'm going to teach you how to stop doing that. Because if you want something in your heart, the only person that can stop you from doing it is you. And if you are sitting there saying, I would like to launch a podcast, the things you need to do are easy. Just Google it and AI will spit out the seven steps and do it. But what's going to stop you is you're going to stop and consider what other people are going to think about this. And that means you're giving power to another person's thought. And here's the reason why that

sucks. The average person has 70,000 thoughts a day, and you will never be able to crawl up into their head and manipulate what they think about you. And so instead of causing yourself anxiety and instead of navigating your life, trying to do things so that people don't think something negative, I want you to do the opposite. I want you to use my let them theory. And when you feel anxious and you start to go,

I don't know what to do. And I don't know. No, no, no. You're worried people are going to judge and you're going to say, let them think negative thoughts. Let them judge me. Let them unfollow. Let them not listen. Let them think whatever they're going to think because I know it's a waste of my time and energy to try to manage something I'm never going

to be able to control. So I'm going to let them think what they want. And then you're going to say the second part, which is let me take the power back and follow the list on AI and launch the podcast. Because when you do that and you no longer allow other people's opinions to be an obstacle, you're going to be proud of yourself. And when you're proud of yourself, you won't give a shit what anybody thinks because you know who you are. But as long as you're giving power to something you can never control, which is what somebody else is going to think, you will be standing in your way and robbing yourself of the potential of your life for the rest of your life. Do not do that. That is a sad way to go about it means you want to do it. So do not allow someone else's opinion, which you cannot control. Start saying, let them have a negative opinion. This is the book. Yeah. Go get it. Order a copy today. This is going to tell you exactly,

this is going to tell you her story, how she began, everything she was facing and how she got herself out of it and how she got herself into motion. And this is what you need to read. And we found out today we are the 12th most streamed show on all of spotify this year on her so i know a little bit about what i'm talking about yeah on the planet yeah so fucking listen up okay guys let them think negative thoughts and one more thing about the influencer thing you influence people now everybody on the planet is an influencer because we are influenced by other people's behavior and so don't let the label that you will never be able to control anyway stop you from going out and expressing yourself or trying

to make a difference let them well you'll also find in the first 50 pages or so of the book that Mel's story is very similar, how you were like, oh, this seems so cringe. And but, you know, went out and got headshots and made a website and all that stuff. Yeah. I have nothing more to add to that. I think she really kind of gave you your marching orders, boys.

Well, geez, I guess so. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, yeah, use that and apply it into all facets of your life. Because while being inveterately embarrassed or whatever your Instagram handle is might be cute and funny, you're really giving a lot of people power by having so many things that embarrass you. You can be embarrassing without being embarrassed about it. Do you know what I'm saying? No. Yeah, I understand. That makes sense. I'll go change it right now.

You know what? You could also say, let Chelsea have her opinion and then let me remind myself that I can choose what I think and I can choose what I do and I can choose how I process things. Go have fun. Do a fun creative project

together. This will be great. You'll have a great time. Yeah, yeah. Okay. And go have fun. Do a fun creative project together. This will be great. You'll have a great time. Yeah. That's kind of how it all really started. I mean, just. Yeah. And we have a lot of friends who are like incredibly supportive idea. Like they're like, they want us to do it. They're begging us to do it. And it's just one of those things. It's like, okay, like in theory, it sounds good. Right. But almost how will it actually like be with people like how will they they're focused on the wrong thing yeah i'm not look at it yes because here's the thing you're not doing it so people listen you're doing it to prove to yourself that you actually believe in yourself and that you honor the things that you want to try you're not doing this so that other people like it. You're doing

it so that you like yourself. And by virtue of that, people will be interested. Yes. By virtue in your own self-belief, people will be interested. All right. I love that. It's very growth mindset. Yeah. Okay. All right. Thanks, guys. That sounds great. Sounds like we fixed everything. Thanks a lot. Okay. Bye, boys. Yeah. All of our problems. Bye. Bye. Thanks. We'll take a quick break and we'll come back to wrap up with Mel Robbins. 2025 is bound to be a fascinating year.

It's going to be filled with money challenges and opportunities. I'm Joel. Oh, and I am Matt. And we're the hosts of How To Money. We want to be with you every step of the way in your financial journey this year, offering the information and insights you need to thrive financially. Yeah, whether you find yourself up to your eyeballs in student loan debt, or you've got a sky-high credit card balance because you went a little overboard with the holiday spending, or maybe you're looking to optimize your retirement accounts so you can

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I'm Eric Zimmer, host of The One You Feed. I've been there, homeless, addicted, and lost. I know the power of small choices to turn your life around. On this podcast, I sit down with thinkers, leaders, and survivors to uncover what it takes to feed the good wolf. This podcast saved me. It's like having a guide for the hardest parts of life. The wolves are hungry.

What will you feed them? Listen to The One You Feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really Know Really podcast Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. cell signal, the astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer. We talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you, and the one bringing back the woolly mammoth. Plus, does Tom Cruise really do his own stunts? His stuntman reveals the answer. And you

never know who's going to drop by. Mr. Bryan Cranston is with us. How are you, too? Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park. Wayne Knight, welcome to Really, No Really, sir. Bless you all. Hello, Newman. And you never know when Howie Mandel might just stop by to talk about judging. Really? That's the opening?

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if your doctor advised you to keep your life-altering medical procedure a secret from everyone? And what if your past itself was a secret and the time had suddenly come to share that past with your child? These are just a few of the powerful and profound questions we'll be asking on our 11th season of Family Secrets. Some of you have been with us since season one and others are just tuning in. Whatever the case and wherever you are, thank you for being part of our Family Secrets family where every week we explore the secrets

that are kept from us, the secrets we keep from others and the secrets we keep from ourselves. Listen to season 11 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Good people, what's up? It's Questo, Questlove.

And Team Supreme and I have been working hard to bring you some incredible episodes of Questlove Supreme with guests you definitely don't want to miss. Now, one of the things I love about this Quest Love Supreme podcast is we got something for everybody, every type of musical lover. We enjoy speaking to the people who are the face of some movements, some people you've seen on stage or TV or magazine covers, but we also love speaking to the folks who are making it happen behind the scenes

and they paved the way for those that followed. You know, keystones to the culture. This season, we've had some amazing one-on-one conversations like I'm Pete Bill chatting up with hitmaker Sam Holland, Sugar Steve chatting with the legend Nick Lowe, and I've had pleasures of doing

one-on-one conversations with Willow, Sonata Matreya, Kathleen Hanna, and The RZA. These are conversations you won't hear anywhere else. So make sure you go back and you check those episodes out. All right. Listen to Questlove Supreme on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right. So our last one, we have another caller. Great. Let's do it. Okay, great. This is Brooklyn, and she's 33. She says, Dear Chelsea, my name is Brooklyn,

and I'm from Vancouver, BC. I need some advice on what to do about my sister. She's been involved with a man for four years now that will not commit to her, which is a blessing because he's the worst human imaginable. Him not committing makes her want him even more. When he did quote unquote commit, he cheated left, right, and center. He's involved with very dangerous people, himself being the main one. She's missing out on so many opportunities to meet a great guy because she's wasting her time with this low life. She's successful in the beauty industry and consumes her life outside of that trying to get his approval. All our friends hate him. Our parents don't want him around. This could ruin her life. The potential is that bad. What do I do, Brooklyn? Hi, Brooklyn. Hello. Hi, this is Mel Robbins, our special guest today.

You guys are my top two podcasts I listen to. That's so crazy. Oh my God. Well, thank you for that. Do you want to go first, Mel? You go. Take the lead. So is this the first time she's been in a relationship with somebody who won't commit, or is this a pattern? No. She had a great boyfriend before. Okay. Yeah. So she's had successful relationships. Well, I ask that because there's a lot of research around this, and if it's a pattern, it's one piece of advice. If it's not a pattern, it's a different piece of advice. Part of the problem is that she is in a dynamic with somebody that sounds like an abuse cycle where it's really good and then it's really bad and then there's an apology and then it's

really good and that activates addiction circuitry in the brain, which makes it very hard to leave. They've done a lot of study about the fact that if somebody's bad to you all the time, it's easier to leave. If somebody's good, then bad, then somebody's good than bad then they're really good then they're bad then they're bad then they're good you don't understand like it's you start kind of craving the good and you explain away the bad and so you're dealing with circuitry in the brain that is hard to overcome and the reason why i'm going to start there is because people do well when they can. And she's in a situation

where it doesn't sound like she can do well yet. And I am going to highly recommend that you dive deep into the let them theory because she's not going to leave him until she feels like it. And she is going to stay in this longer if she feels judgment from you guys. Because the judgment or the distance adds more shame, which makes her want to fix it more. And she's got to have, you're smart in not bringing it up, but there's now this dynamic where she knows this is

not the right relationship and she's probably embarrassed about it. And when you're in that situation, the only way to redeem yourself is to somehow save the relationship. Because if she finally breaks up with him, what are you going to hear? I told you so. And so you're in this dynamic with her where there's a standoff and knowing that she will do well when she can. And because of the dynamic of this relationship, she can't right now. And one of the best things that you can do is you can approach this very differently. First of all, have you apologized for judging? Have you apologized for pressuring her? No, I've kind of approached the conversation as I tell her, like, I don't have anything nice to say,

so I don't want to say it anymore. Like, that's kind of where that would end. Uh-huh. Okay. So there's something that I write about in the book called the ABC loop, and A stands for apologize and then ask open-ended questions. And the asking of the open-ended questions is, well, how do you feel about it? And is there anything that you want to change? And then you say, is there anything I can do to be more supportive? And that's it. And what you're doing is you're actually, in a nonjudgmental way, you're creating space for her to talk about what's working and what's not working and she might lie to me everything's great but here's the thing based

on the research what you're doing by asking open-ended questions is you're raising tension internally because she knows it's not working yeah she knows this guy's a dickhead she knows that she deserves better but she's trapped in. And so you're raising this tension that allows her to start to face the thing that she's in, she's gaslighting herself around. And then you're going to be back off because people don't change until they can, or they feel like it. And nobody wants to change and be told, I told you so. So you're just back off and give her space. But the, I don't say anything. I don't know what to say. So I don't say anything.

That's actually not an apology that you haven't backed off yet because she knows you're judging her. That's why the a part is important. Now you're going to back off for at least three months and then you've got to just model positive behavior, meaning acceptance, love, ask her, bring them around. No. Like, Hey, I want to see you. And if that means he's coming too, I'm going to change how I am around him. And you're going to notice something. She doesn't want him around because she knows he's not good for her. Do you see what

I'm saying? Yeah. I like what you said because I think that would bring us closer because there's this divide between us where we're not open anymore because we can't talk about everything. Of course. Well, because you're judging her. Yes. And what happened? Yes. It's just him, but no, no, no, no, no. Hold on. Hold on. You don't get to pick and choose that way. If you're judging the person I'm dating, you're judging me. Okay. And so when you judge another human being, that doesn't create motivation for connection or change. It creates resistance to it. And you're going to have to wrap your brain around this.

This is the hardest thing in the world to understand. You are right. And wanting the best for your sister is a beautiful and loving thing. And I want the best for your sister and you too. But you're going about it in a way that you're working against the circuitry of the way that human beings are wired. And it's creating pressure and resistance and distance. And that's not what you want. Would this make a difference if he was dangerous? um yes and the average domestic violence relationship i i was a crisis intervention counselor on a domestic violence hotline jesus you really have had a lot of careers um

it takes somebody an average of seven times to leave it's not domestic violence it's he's dangerous himself in his life and his job and his life choices. Understood. And when that's the case, there's almost always commingling of that type of violence in the relationship too, whether it's emotional or physical, and there's a tremendous amount of denial about what's actually going on. And so I think you need to talk to somebody that has expertise in domestic violence and in emotional abuse, because there's probably a lot of narcissistic personality style things going on too. expert on narcissism. But what the experts will tell you is that one of the hardest forms of abuse to unwind in somebody is the abuse that you receive when you're in a relationship with somebody that has a narcissistic and controlling personality style. And so you need to look at your sister as somebody who is in almost like a hostage situation. She doesn't even know it. And again,

people do well when they can. And so when you say let them, you're not allowing this to happen to her. You're recognizing what's happening to her. And you're also recognizing that you can't get her out of this. She has to get herself out of this with your support. And the only way that's going to happen is if you can draw her closer to you. And as long as you're judging her or she feels that, you are creating distance. I would get support from a licensed therapist or counselor that deals with domestic violence or narcissism brain circuitry so they can advise you on this. But you really want to take an approach of open arms and no judgment and support. And that's going to draw her to you. Does that make sense? Yeah, it totally does. It's almost like you have to outsmart the two of them. Instead of being reactive to the situation,

you kind of have to be the bigger person and see the situation for what it is, which probably has an expiration date. And getting closer to your sister rather than pushing her farther away is probably going to help expedite that expiration date without you controlling the situation. That's so true. And I was doing the opposite. So that's really good advice from both of you. Yeah. Great. If you give the producers your address, I'm going to mail you a copy of the Let Them Theory before it's even out. So that because you need to read this right now. Amazing. Thank you. All right. All right. Well, take care and good luck with everything with your sister

thanks thank you guys so much thank you chelsea thank you you're welcome i appreciate it hi you know what i wanted to ask you before we wrap up so in the in this book you talk about seeing like a group of friends of yours going on vacation which i think is something that a lot of people can relate to in the age we live in. And you were fixated on this idea that you weren't invited to this weekend and this girls getaway, even though you weren't very close friends with these girls at the time, right? You had known them over the years. So have you had any interactions with those women? Like, have they read this? They haven't read this yet. I reached out to two of them and let them know. And like the story of the house,

it's like six different friends. And I'm like, it's not just know. And like the story of the house, it's like six different friends. And I'm like, it's not just you. And there's a person with queen bunk beds in there. So here's the thing in the book, there's a story where I see on social media that people have gone away. And by the way, it's a mentally healthy response to feel disappointed when you're not invited. That's a sign that you're actually well. The problem is you then turn it against yourself and believe that you've done something wrong. And so having the let them theory was lifesaving because normally I would have spiraled for weeks. I would have distanced myself from people I deeply care about. And I would have made up stories in my mind that

made me feel like some loser, like I did in middle school. And instead I said, let them. Let them go away. Let them have a weekend without me. Let them live their lives. And then you have to say the let me part. And this is the part that nobody likes. Everyone loves to get let them tattooed on them because you feel superior. But the let me part is where you have power and you take responsibility because then you go, well, let me look a little deeper. If this hurts this much, clearly I value friendship. And now I gotta ask myself, what am I thinking, doing, or feeling about it? And when I looked in the mirror, Chelsea,

I was working so much, I had let my friendships go. And it's no one else's responsibility to create those relationships but mine. When was the last time I invited anybody over? When's the last time I planned a weekend away? When was the last time I invited anybody over? When's the last time I planned a weekend away? When's the last time I picked up the phone and asked any one of those women that I now felt excluded from how they were doing? And the truth is, I hadn't done it in a very long time. And so then you go, well, what right do you have to expect to be invited if you're not even putting in the effort. And so the let them theory also reveals

not just where other people are falling short and where you need to speak up and talk about what you need or how you may feel. It also reveals where you are, where you're sitting back bitching about your job, but you're actually phoning it in. Where you are feeling lonely, but you haven't left your house in five days. Where you have complaints about your lonely, but you haven't left your house in five days. Where you have complaints about your family, but you haven't reached out to your siblings in a while. And so I love this so much because whether you're talking about politics or you're talking about a very scary situation like that last caller, and you would do anything to extract your sister from that. Just like we would do anything to help somebody get sober.

But when you pressure, you actually create resistance to change. And when you blame, you fail to see your power and responsibility in creating the things that you want in your life. And so it has been the single most powerful thing I've ever discovered. It has changed my life more than anything

that I have ever learned about or used in my life. And I 1000% believe this is the legacy I will leave on this earth. Ooh, we love it. Well, we loved having you Mel Robbins and this book is obviously gonna be a huge success. We, we love it. Well, we loved having you, Mel Robbins. And this book is obviously going to be a huge success. We know that for sure. And congrats on all of your success.

It's very, very inspiring to see someone turn their life around in the way in which you have. Thank you. Yeah. So goodbye, everyone. We will see you next week. If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email at dearchelseapodcast at gmail.com. And be sure to include your phone number.

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