Dear Chelsea - Love Ya with Dylan Mulvaney

Episode Date: May 4, 2023

Actress and activist Dylan Mulvaney joins Chelsea in-studio to talk about first kisses, learning by doing, and the whirlwind year she’s had after coming out as trans.  Then: A formerly lonely kid struggles to keep up with all of her adult relationships. A twenty-something’s mother has kept his identity secret from her own husband. And an army officer finds dating to be her biggest battle yet.   * Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail] * Produced by Catherine Law Edited & Engineered by Brandon Dickert * * * * * The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Tune in and join in the conversation. Listen to Decisions Decisions on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Season 4, everybody. This is Season 4 of Dear Chelsea. Thank you for helping make us a sweet success. Okay. Hello, Catherine. Hi, Chelsea.

Hi. What's up? Oh, my God. Season four. So many things have happened. I know. I feel like these little communities are forming. People are reaching out to each other.

I can't tell you how many times somebody will hear someone call in and they contact me and they'll be like, listen, I have the perfect solution for them or I can connect them with someone who can help them. And so I pass their little email along and it's just really wonderful. I wish Bernice could call in my dog. I wish she could call in because I want to know what's on her mind. All I know is, all I know is I love her ever since Bert passed away slash got put down only because it was the end of the road, not because I wanted to get rid of him. Can you imagine if he pissed me off and I just put him down?

Anyway, Bernice has been a sweetheart. Just the sweetest thing. Last night, she was in bed. I usually have to force her up into my bed, which I had to stop doing because she had this really wicked cough. And I say wicked because I'm from Boston, the Boston area. But she had this really wicked cough. And I was like, God, is she getting like secondhand smoke from all my joints?

And then I was like, is she smoking her own joints? Yeah. And I sent her to the doctor and they kept giving her cough medicine and cough medicine and cough pills. And I was like, it's not a cough. It's deeper than that. So then we took her to another vet and they found out that she has a collapsed trachea, which they kind of intimated. Carla, my assistant, kind of tried to make it like it was my fault for picking her up her whole life.

And I told Carla to just take it down a notch and shut the front door because that, I don't pick her up by her fucking throat, first of all. Secondly, so now when I go up, she goes up the doggy stairs, I put a leash on her. I guide her up, you know, to trap her. I like a lobster. But now, last night, and this has been happening. Yeah. She, when I come back from my tour weekends, because, you know, I've been on my tour. I come back and she comes, I guide her up the steps and she doesn't go down now.

Oh, my gosh. She woke up like three times last night and she was like, I was like, I put the light on so guide her up the steps and she doesn't go down now. She woke up like three times last night and she was like, I was like, I put the light on so she could see the steps so she could go down, you know, to her doggy bed. But then she just looked at me, circled back around, dug her feet in and went back to sleep. So she's been sleeping with me through the night, which is, I've never ever had this experience when Bert was alive. And you know, she, again, like any marginalized woman, she has been marginalized. And since Burt is gone and he required so much attention and cuteness and

neediness. They get like mad at you. They get, I think Mimsy's like still mad at me, me specifically for getting these two puppies. Like she has not forgiven me. And I won't, I was, I was like, oh, I got to get another puppy because I like to have two. Yeah. But I'm going to wait until the fall, A, because that's irresponsible because I'm going to be traveling a lot during the summer. And B, I want this time alone with my daughter. Now I understand. It's true. Like, I definitely feel I have a lot of, like, mother's guilt of I'm not spending enough time with Mimsy. And now that the puppies are, are like the squeaky wheels in my face all of the time.

So I'm working on that, like taking her for extra walks, giving her extra love, which she like also sometimes doesn't want because she's like, I just want to like snuggle you. I don't want you to snuggle me back. She's very that. Oh, really? Yeah. She like wants to be like between your legs, but like she won't be in your front nook. She won't be spooned. She doesn't have it.

Front nook. Oh, my God. She can't be in your front nook, She won't be spooned. She doesn't have it. Front nook. Oh my God. She can't be in your front nook, everybody. Translation, under your arm, everyone. Exactly. You didn't see Catherine's gesticulation, so I'll have to understand exactly what that meant. Yeah. But I appreciate the one-on-one time and she's so sweet, Bernice, and I just love her so much. And I'm just so grateful that I have dogs. In other non-canine news, I got these glasses, these progressive glasses. I got about six pair made, three sunglasses and three regular glasses.

And the guy explained to me that the top part is for to see distance. The middle part is to see intermediate. I'm like, what the fuck is intermediate? And the bottom part is for a close up. But when I sit on a plane, if I look down the print on the book, because I like to read on my plane rides. Yeah. I have to hold my head in a certain way so that it makes the print readable. Yeah. And I don't like these. And a lot of people warn me about these. And I'm going to take them all back and have them. I want bifocals is what

I want. Yeah. Just two, not three. I don't need three compartments. And by the way, he was like, oh, I put a prescription on the top. I go, there is no prescription on the top. I've had Lasik. And he said, no, there's a light prescription. And I'm like, I don't think that there is. So, I mean, I guess ophthalmologists are right up there with veterinarians in my book. Yeah. They don't seem to have a real concrete answer to anything. Everything's vague. Why would you need intermediate seeing? Like between distance and short-sighted, why do you need to see another subset? There famously have only been two for

a very long time. I don't know why there's a third. I guess people don't like the line in the bifocal. I don't give a shit, though. I mean, I'm going to be, how old am I? 48. I mean, at a certain point, I just have to give up. Yeah. Brad had that happen once where he went to a new optometrist and this guy was like, no, no, I know your real prescription. All of the

doctors you've been seeing for the last 15 years are wrong. That's like when you get your bras fitted. You know, someone's like, oh, these are the bras. This is going to be the bra that fits you. And it is for the first 20 minutes. And then after you wear it, you're like, no, my tits look like... Just cones. Yeah, yeah. I hate that 40s look where my tits look pointy. Yeah, and you just get stabbed in weird spots and it's no good. I don't know about bra fitting, but definitely I've been wearing glasses since like third grade

and this doctor was like, oh, hey, you know what? Your prescription, let your eyes do the work. Let your eyes work for it. And then he gave me this prescription that was less. So everything was blurry and I had to like squint at everything that doesn't make any fucking sense yeah work for what and then also you know my favorite book uh letting go by David Hawkins in it he talks about letting go of the fact that you can't see uh-huh and just not wearing glasses and that his vision miraculously came back to him. So I tried that for about a month. That's the only section of the book. I'm like, listen, buddy, I don't know what kind of magic you're working. You guys are just like bootstrapping your eyesight. My cornea

is just going to repair itself because I've decided to let go. If you believe enough, it will. But I am in a great meditation zone. Yes. Yeah. I'm really feeling my meditations lately. I do that. I've been doing my Chopra app and I do these courses, but you know, sometimes you don't really feel it. You just feel like you're sitting there thinking, but I'm really able to like stop my thoughts. And I'm like going to this like place, like this light place. It's very relaxed. And now I'm craving it. I mean, this has been, I don't know how many years I've been meditating, probably like four or five now. But it's been great. But I'm in a zone right now and I'm liking it a lot.

Do you, what's it called when you can like cast your spirit somewhere else? That's what I feel like I'm doing. Is that what you're doing? Like I'm not in my body. Astral projection? Yes. Astral projection. Is that about my asshole? Yes, yes. That's exactly what it is. Astral projection? Yes. Astral projection. Does that involve my asshole?

Yes, yes. That's exactly what it is. Astral projection. Well, that's what I think I'm doing anyway. Who knows if that's what I'm doing, but it feels like I'm not in my body. Like I'm in some light-filled atmosphere with my mom and my brother. They're always with me, so that's fun. I love that.

You can visit them anytime. Yeah. I picture my mom like a little nymph flying around, like a little sphinx. A sphinx or a nymph? A fairy. A fairy. It's like that Greek mythology thing, like when they fly around. A sprite.

Yeah, a sprite. That's what I think of. I like a sprite. And Chelsea, you're about to be traveling a bunch. And I have just announced new stand-up dates for my Little Big Bitch Tour, guys. I announced 25 new cities. These are probably a lot of the cities people have been mentioning in the comments.

I start out in East Hampton. I go to New York, D.C., Durham, North Carolina, L.A., Phoenix, Cleveland, Columbus, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Chicago, Madison, Portland, to name just some. I will be performing at the Kennedy Center, everybody. That's in D.C., October 6th. I'm super psyched

to be performing there. There are more. You can go to ChelseaHandler.com. I am on tour. I have dates coming up for the next three months and then more dates coming up in the fall. So those have all been announced. They're on my Instagram page. Or you can go to ChelseaHandler.com. Thank you. Our first guest of season four is someone who has been getting a ton of attention because she has been very loud and proud about her transition into girlhood. And I am loving it up and I'm loving her Instagram. So please welcome Dylan Mulvaney. Hi, Dylan Mulvaney in person and looking beautiful as ever. Thank you, Chelsea Handler.

So excited to finally meet you. Oh my God. I got to tell you, this is a full circle moment. I grew up when I was about 13, 14 years old, this gay boy pre-transition. I had a friend group called the Harlots, and it was me and a bunch of girls, bad bitches. And we used to pass your books around, and that's how we learned about sex. And so I texted them all. It had been a while since I've talked with them, but I said, you're never going to believe

who I'm going to see today. So I just really, it's a very full circle moment. Oh, well, I'm so glad to hear that. Dylan has gained a lot of notoriety and popularity on her TikTok series, Becoming a Girl. Or is it Being a Girl? Days of Girlhood. Days of Girlhood. We just hit day 365 a few weeks ago.

Yes, and you had a big celebration. I did a big show, musical, baby. I'm Broadway. I know. We had singing, dancing, and acting. Oh my God, talk about a full circle moment. Yes. So I want to ask you so many questions,

but let's just start about gaining the confidence and the self-assuredness to follow your pursuit of becoming the real person that you wanted to be. Absolutely. When I was four years old, I came to my mom and I said, Mom, I think I'm a girl. And we grew up very Catholic, very conservative. And she- Where'd you grow up?

The outskirts of San Diego. Okay. And a little town called Alpine. And I was a boy in a dance studio at age three, you know, only boy there dancing. But I came to my mom and I said this and she said, well, God doesn't make mistakes. And this was the year 2000. And so there really weren't many resources at all, except, you know, the only transness we got to see was a sex worker on NCIS that had been hurt. We hadn't seen trans people

experiencing success or happiness. I don't resent my family or even myself for not allowing me to become this woman that I am now because this was all part of the journey. And finally, you know, these those gender thoughts, I pushed them away because when I was starting to discover my sexuality, which is a different thing than gender, I thought that being gay was at the end of the world. I thought, really, it doesn't you know, it can't get any worse. And so transness wasn't even allowed to be in my mind. And so I came out as gay at 14. But when you said to your mother that you were four, when you were four, you said, I feel like a girl. I feel like I'm a girl. And she just was like, God doesn't make any mistakes. And that was it. We did some, you know, I went to some therapy and again, a very different time. So I'm not resentful at all. But it was then at the pandemic, I was touring with a Broadway musical called The Book of Mormon.

Ironic. It's wild. But I was spent my whole life doing theater, playing these male roles. And there was no room even in that industry to be trans. And so once the pandemic hit, it was the first time that I didn't even have to see myself playing a part. I was like, who is Dylan really without theater and religion and all of these things that had been put on me? And I was a really feminine little boy growing up. And I felt like I stripped parts of myself away for so many years that I'm now finding again. And I think that's been the most beautiful part is getting to finally give in to those feelings and those desires and those outfits and whatever it might be that brings me euphoria.

But during the pandemic, I was like, okay, let's reopen that question of gender. And I identified as non-binary for about a year, went by they, them pronouns, and it still was not where I was supposed to be. And I think it was so daunting making that jump from being a man to then that trans woman title scared the shit out of me. And it's so funny, I don't usually curse, but I'm around you and I kind of feel like I want to let loose a little bit. It happens. But you have that influence. I thought non-binary moment of my life was kind of this little cloud that I got to land on for a hot second. And it was not the end of my journey. That's when I finally accepted. Actually, I started hormones while I was non-binary to feminize my body. And then I took on that she pronoun and it feels so good. Oh, I'm so happy to hear that you followed. You were able to pursue what you felt

was necessary to be a complete human being. And I think what people's resistance is to transgender people, to the whole LGBTQIA community, is that it's different from what they know. And anything that's different than what anybody knows scares them for some reason, because it's the same reason people want to hold on to power and don't want to give equality to everybody because they're scared of what they may lose. And their lack of understanding, instead of looking at it as a huge growth opportunity to be like, oh, my God, tell me everything. I want to understand you better. Right. It doesn't come at the front. Well, and, you know, a lot of people don't have

a Dylan in their lives to ask questions. And I think that's kind of why I got online, too, was because I wanted to be that friend for people. I wanted to show that I'm not some monster. And it's sad that there are still so many people that are trying to use this really beautiful journey against me and twisting my words and taking things out of context. But at the end of the day, like, I'm happier than I ever have been because I could I can't imagine going back to that, that other, you know, person, it breaks my heart to think about. Yeah, I would imagine so. So how do you reconcile that? Like when you look back at your former life before you became a woman, how do you frame that time? You know, I try to actually think about it in a very positive,

I always do glass half full. Everything that has happened before transition, that was supposed to happen. That was part of my story. I was learning things. And now I feel like now it's all icing on the cake because I actually got to the cake finally. But I just I don't want to ever resent, you know, there are sometimes the mindset of like every day before, you know, I came out was absolutely horrible. But no, I had some good times in my life, but I just hadn't entered my full potential at all. You know when you're locked into yourself, right? And you're like, oh, this is who I am. This feels right. My intuition has never been more alive within myself. So I'm just, I'm trying to stay

strong. Yeah. Yeah. And you will be strong you're already strong thank you you know there's always going to be bumps in the road and things will happen that will feel like you're you're getting off course but it's up to you to remain steadfast and true to who you are and to follow your truth because your truth is unlike anyone else's and people have a easy time forgetting that I want to talk a little bit about what it takes to actually transition because that is another argument for the reason that people wouldn't be doing it. It's not easy. It's not easy to transition. It's not easy to change your sex that you were born with or to feel like you're not the person that you were meant to be. So talk to me a little bit about that. Well, I really get upset when people say,

she woke up one day and just decided she wanted to be a girl. Like this was not a decision. This was who every fiber of my being. And I put in a lot of fricking effort and a lot of mental gymnastics, a lot of therapy, a lot of soul searching to do this. And it is something that I don't take lightly. I think that this journey that I'm on, going on hormones,

those were all huge decisions that I had to make and very private ones. And while every transition looks completely different, there are trans people that aren't on hormones or that may choose not to get surgeries. But for those of us who need those things for our dysphoria, we need access to them. And we can't be vilified for needing those things. Right. And you recently had facial feminization, right? Yes. Oh, babe.

It's good, right? It's good. Yeah, babe. It's good, right? It's good. Yeah, beautiful. And my biggest thing about sharing that process online was that I didn't want people to see it as plastic surgery. I needed them to know that this is like an affirming surgery that can change lives and possibly save lives. And it was so wild to look in the mirror and see what I imagined for the, you know, for the first time to kind of, it was just a soften of my features. I didn't look totally different, but a very emotional experience. And I do think, like, there's power in sharing a story so that people can get, like, a little look in. Absolutely.

I mean, that's what you're doing is freeing other people. When you share your story, you're giving license to other people to share their stories and to follow their dreams. How many surgeries have you had to have thus far? So it's funny, like there's really no rule book to how transitions go. And again, it's like you can, you know, sort of pick and choose what it is based on your euphoria and dysphoria. So, you know, that was because and choose what it is based on your euphoria and dysphoria. So, you know, that was because I'm so in the public eye right now, I knew that that was one of the

first things that I wanted to do since I am so on display and I was feeling so self-conscious and very upset about my features. But now I'm actually, I think I'm going to take a little bit of a step back about talking about my physical transition because, first of all, that word influencer scares the shit out of me because I don't want to influence anyone to do anything. But I don't want other set any sort of precedent. That's that's nice and responsible, I'm sure. Inside you, two wolves are locked in battle. One thrives on fear and anger and doubt. The other, courage and anger and doubt. The other? Courage, wisdom, and love.

Every decision, every moment feeds one of them. Which wolf are you feeding? I'm Eric Zimmer, host of The One You Feed. I've been there, homeless, addicted, and lost. I know the power of small choices to turn your life around. On this podcast, I sit down with thinkers, leaders, and survivors to uncover what it takes to feed the good wolf. This podcast saved me.

It's like having a guide for the hardest parts of life. The wolves are hungry. What will you feed them? Listen to The One You Feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 2025 is bound to be a fascinating year. It's going to be filled with money challenges and opportunities. I'm Joel. Oh, and I am Matt. And we're the hosts of How To Money. We want to be with you every step of the way in your financial journey this year, offering the information and insights you need to thrive financially. Yeah. Whether you find

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the running interview show where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more after those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast Post Run High is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. You know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout? Well, that's when the real magic happens. So if you love hearing real, inspiring stories from the people you know, follow, and admire, join me every week for Post Run High. It's where we take the conversation beyond the run and get into the heart of it all. It's lighthearted, pretty crazy, and very fun.

Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I want to know how it made you feel to get all this love online. Oh my God. And I mean, you're a viral, you know, superstar on Instagram and TikTok. If you don't follow her already, it's at Dylan Mulvaney. And hey, you're killing it on TikTok right now, too. I'm digging the PSAs. They're great. I got another one coming up that involves you. So

so tell us about what that welcoming and affirmation must feel like because after going through something and experiencing something for so long and taking the bull by its horns and saying, fuck it, this is my life. I'm going to do what I'm going to do. Yeah. You know, and having people applaud that. Well, I still don't really get social media, to be honest. It's so crazy how fast things can travel there. And I think normally, like, I was a musical theater kid. I just wanted, I still want to be an actress.

And normally you like book a movie and you have like two years before it comes out. So you kind of have some preparation of like, okay, this might happen, you know. But I mean, I think I had a million followers in like 17 days. And no one can really like, get you ready for that. And I think also, I was essentially sharing the most vulnerable parts of my life. So there's kind of a double whammy of putting yourself out there and having your transness on display. And if there was another trans person came to me right now and said, Oh, should I start from day one and showcase? I'd say, Oh, babe, I don't know about that, just because of all of the turmoil that's come from it showcase, I'd say, oh, babe, I don't know about that just because of all

of the turmoil that's come from it. But I will say the amount of love and the fact that on day one, I said, this is who I am. And I hadn't had any surgery. I was still very much finding my femininity and figuring out what really makes me a woman versus the misogyny that I still am working through that was placed on me. But I was supported by women saying, we stand by you.

We see you as a woman. We're here for you on this journey. And now I have people in the comments being like, we've been here since day one, day seven, day nine. And that gives me hope. And I hope that it shows other trans people that are still in the closet that they can, when they're ready and on their own time, that they can feel allowed to come out and to experience life in a beautiful way.

Yeah, I think one of the most offensive things to hear is people who are talking about, you know, trans people saying, oh, it's trendy. It's trendy. Are we supposed to let children change their sex before they're ready? Because what if they change their mind back? And it's such a miseducation and an unknowing. Like I had a friend say to me, oh, I know there are eight-year-old kids that are getting transgender surgery without their parents. And I'm like, that's simply not true. First of all, there is no eight-year-old that could go to the fucking doctor and become –

Drive themselves there. You can't do that at eight. It's just so dumb. But it's insane that notion of, like, trendiness because transness has existed, like, since the beginning of time. And truly, like in certain cultures, the two spirits or transness was actually like seen as almost the most holy or the most reverent or the most respected. And it's so sad to watch as, you know, the years go by, it get sort of picked apart due to capitalism and all of these things that have essentially let go of the fact that this is who we are. And also just in a scientific aspect, from a scientific perspective, there is a spectrum

of male, what male like Arnold Schwarzenegger is at one end of the spectrum. Okay. And then Pamela Anderson is at the other end of the spectrum. That's a boy. That's a girl. And then there's 50 million things in between. Yes. Yes. And it's biological as well.

It's not just an idea. This has been going on since people were born. Like there's, this is not new. This is not trendy. We just happen to have a vocabulary about it in this modern era. It makes me very sad too when they go, oh, she's doing this to get famous or, you know, when I came out, I was assumed that I would not work for a very long time. You know, it's not like

trans people are out here, you know, thriving. We're just trying to survive. And my experience online and my success is like one millionth of what it actually is to be trans. The transphobia I experience is so different than that of a Black trans woman. As much as I am going through it and I have a lot of people that maybe don't care for me, there's still so much privilege in my experience compared to other trans peoples. And I need to make sure that we're taking care of the whole community and that this isn't, you know, some, there's nothing about this that's a gimmick. This is my truth. It's such an odd remark to make that they think that I would do this for any reason, but because it's such a

difficult decision. Yeah. Well, and there is, I think there is something scary to people who are scared of transness or, you know, the LGBTQ community. There's something scary about someone like you who chooses, despite that adversity, to show up bubbling over with joy and to bring positivity. And even though it is difficult to still show off your joy. Well, and that's the thing I and I'll say also, and I think you'll get me on this. Comedy for me is my way in. And so a lot of the times I will make light of sometimes these really dark situations because it's my coping mechanism. It always has been. I like making people laugh. I like making people smile. I was doing a lot of standup about a year ago and I realized it was very healing for me. I love to overshare. I think

you can relate. But I tried to find the funny and transness and it's really, it's a slippery slope because then things get taken out of context or it gets used against you. And I think I now am trying to take a step back. And another thing that happens too in your trans is you immediately get labeled as like an activist and that you know how to speak on all of these things and that you have the answers. But I'm a baby trans. You know, I'm still so new to my journey that I've made a lot of missteps. I've spoken out of turn. And the most important thing is that, you know, hopefully not all trans people have to be these like activists, have to have every single answer.

You know, I have so much left to learn. That's a good point that you bring up. As an activist, also, you're speaking up for things that you care about. It doesn't mean that you know the answer to every in and out of the subject or the topic. Obviously, we are interested in educating ourselves on whatever topic we're being an ally to or an ally for. Well, I'm a musical theater major. So I mean, that's my way in. I'm like, God, can I sing about it? Can I do and that's what I did on day 365. I was like, Oh, let me show people what I actually want to do, which was perform and I used my story to kind of put it into a show. And now going forward,

I think that if I was to create a show with a trans character or to write a touring show, those are different forms of activism in itself. And I actually think that through scripted and through comedy that we can learn from different types of people. Absolutely. I mean, that's how we learn about everything in this world. Right? It's almost easier when it's not a real human that it's like, oh, there's a little bit of

mystery there. Yeah, absolutely. I wonder if for folks who aren't really clear about euphoria and dysphoria, can you talk to us a little bit about that? Okay. So I remember like early on in my transition, like those first moments of actually purchasing an item of clothing that I've always, you know, craved wearing or even just like a man opening the door and calling me ma'am. I know that that's so gender stereotype, but it was like, oh my God. And funny enough, during the pandemic, wearing those masks, it was kind of nice because I still have a little, you know,

I'm trying to get rid of this beard hair and she's really putting up a fight. Hey, by the way, I'm trying to deal with my beard hair too. You know, that's what I heard. I have those blonde. Well, I have different beard hair, but the blonde fuzzies, I shave my face all the time. They come through. We'll do it together. And I just think they're euphoria.

Truly, it are those little moments that sometimes it isn't this like outward like, oh, my God, it's but it's like that little spark in you that's like, yes. And then dysphoria is truly it feels like a darkness that kind of washes over you. And it is those moments of being misgendered. Or I remember before transitioning having to put on a male outfit for an audition or, you know, just like that conforming that made me so sad. Yeah. And that's what I think a lot of these haters don't realize is that the mental effects of misgendering in the media, it breaks my heart because, you know, there are people calling me a man and I don't right now, I feel like I'm not even processing any of it because I'm so scared to do that deep dive and to know what the effects are. And I'll say these haters,

they really wore me down for a second. But then they came for you, Chels. And I thought, oh my God, this is my favorite woman in the entire world. And the same people that are coming for me are coming for her. And it actually something clicked. And I went, oh my God,

maybe what they're saying isn't true because I'm now watching them take out someone I love and I know her truth and I stand by her and I love her. So maybe the same goes for me because it's almost easier when it's not about you and it's about someone you love or enjoy. And I know we hadn't met yet, but I actually was able to see in through your experience with them. Oh, wow. I love that. Yeah. I mean, I was saying this to you a little bit before we started, but, you know, the haters is kind of like, it's just like you have a big pile of stuff. There's always going to be, there's going to be some negative stuff, you know, you have to learn how to focus on the positive and all the people that you're impacting. And eventually, it just rolls

right off your back. And we both know how to have a good time. Exactly. And that's what, you know, I don't think they want to see that. No, no, no, no. I mean, for Republican men to tell me that I'm unhappy. I'm like, who said I was happy? You guys are assuming I'm happy because of the way I'm living. Yeah, I'm not going, I'm happy. I'm happy. I don't have to say that because I fucking am happy. I don't have to scream it from the rooftops. Every time I do now something, they've given me more motivation just to fuck with them because they can't handle a woman who knows, A, that can take care of a lot of people around her that doesn't need a man to do that and doesn't need a child to do that.

You're not going to keep me down ever. And I think that's how anyone who's ever receiving that has to look at it. It's like, look at the source. You know what I mean? Look at the ignorance and look at the idea. For me personally, the idea that a man knows what's best for me is preposterous. Especially a man that doesn't actually know you. No, but no one who knows me knows what's best for me, except for me and my sister, maybe Simone and Shoshana, but I don't even know. I know what's best for me. You know what I mean? Just like you know what's best for you. And like every individual listening to this podcast knows what's best for you. There's an inner knowing that we all have. And it doesn't matter if you were born a boy or born a girl, you have an intuition that comes with your person. And that's what you have to listen to. And on that note, we should take some callers.

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Well, our first question is just an email. Kayla says, Dear Chelsea, Rejection has always been my biggest fear. As a kid, I had almost no friends. I was teased for my looks. My old soul personality was misunderstood. Now I'm in my mid-30s, and I have more friends than I can handle. Don't get me wrong, I feel grateful to have so many girlfriends that I can count on and grow with,

but I feel pretty overwhelmed with maintaining all of these relationships in a meaningful way. Nowadays, I seem to mostly get asked to go to all the big events such as weddings, birthdays, and baby showers, and I'm often told you're the busiest person I know, so I'm less likely to get asked to just have coffee. It's true, though. My schedule feels so full, and I'm drained by balancing all these relationships. Besides friends, my husband has a large family, and mine is quite sizable, too. It's a lot of personal relationships to maintain. Chelsea, you seem like the kind of person who has a ton of friends. How do you keep up with everyone? I never feel like I'm being a good enough friend. Should I try to not be so hard on myself or work on more practical ways to keep in touch with them all?

Thanks so much, Kayla. Oh, well, that's a good problem to have, Kayla. I would say I'll go first and then Dylan, you can chime in anytime you want. OK. I would say that, yes, that is a good problem to have. I would say to be respectful to all of the people that are in your life. And the way I show respect personally is I respond to every text and email that I get. I always respond. It might take a minute, but especially text, I find that that is a more personal kind of way. So if I've forgotten an

email or two, that's probably true. But texting wise, I try to get back to every single person who leaves me a text message. And even if it's the news isn't good, like I can't make it, it's nice to just show that kind of, they used to say deference in school

when I wouldn't respect my teachers. They said you had to show deference. And I was like, fuck off. But deference is just showing somebody respect and saying like, you know, creating boundaries creates respect. That is true. When you say no to things because you need time alone or you, you know, you have other plans or whatever, that's all fine. You don't have to overextend yourself. That's not doing anybody any favors because you grow resentful of the person that you're overextending yourself for and you grow resentful of not spending enough time on yourself.

So I would just say to anybody, like, I mean, it seems like it seems like it's more of a personal problem from your writing. Like you feel that you need to spend all this time with all these people. I would say dial that back a little bit. Give yourself some room to breathe and reassess yourself. Give yourself six weeks and say, OK, I'm going to do this for six weeks and see how I feel at the end of the six weeks. I'm going to respond to anyone who asks me, but I'm not going to make plans with every single person who asks me. I'm going to say, actually, I have a really busy week or if you're not, I mean, it was kind of a mixed message because she's saying she's getting invited

to big things rather than the little things. If those little interactions are important for you and studies show that it is very important to socialize, it is very important to be around other people, but it's also very important to regroup. I need an inordinate amount of time to be by myself in order for me to perform on stage on a regular basis during a tour. I need to be alone for many hours a day. I have to conserve my fucking energy because I don't have the energy and the stamina that I had when I was in my 20s and whatever. Because you're so present with people. And that's what I'll say. I nearly died when you said I respond to every text message because my phone is like, we're in the hundreds, babe. And I was

feeling so guilty. I'm the number one people pleaser. But then I realized my goal is that when I actually am with someone in person or if I'm on a phone call, I'm going to be 100 percent present. And I'm not I don't want to do the half ass sort of like, oh, I'm going to hang out with a bunch of people, but I'm going to be, you know, in a bunch of different places in my head or working or no, I want to show up. And when I do get those moments, which maybe are more rare now with with friends or loved ones, I want to be there fully. And I've actually now set the precedent that do you know, Glennon Doyle? Yeah, she talked about she doesn't really text anymore. She thinks that it's you're basically always at the beck and call of someone

else. And so now all my friends know to call me and we'll have these great, you know, phone calls and chats. And, and that has like filled me up in a new way. And you know what, that's great that you say that because I'm the opposite. I would prefer a text rather than a phone call. Don't fucking call me. But, and, but I think what you said is very prescient because it's, it's very important. That's what I said to my girlfriend once she got mad at me for canceling. And I said, listen, I'm canceling because I'm not going to be able to be present. I'm exhausted. I'm tired. I feel like shit.

I want to be present. And that is the most important gift you can give somebody is your time and presence. And how funny, too. The people that I want to hang out with the most are usually the ones that are like, oh, I'm not going to message her because she's busy. But then it's the people that, you know, they're hounding you to hang out. And you're like, wait, no, I want to go see these other people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think it's also really reaching out to the people that you want to be around that you want to go on that coffee date with and then saying no when it when it feels right. And also measuring how you feel after your interactions with people, like actually

taking in. Are you getting a lot out of this relationship or are you being present for someone going through a difficult time? Those are two ends of the spectrum, but they also like, I like to be there. I like emotional triage. When somebody needs something and a friend needs something, then I like to be there for them.

I excel at that. But I'm not gonna be doing that for two years in a row. You know what I mean? I wanna help you get out of it. And then there's other friends who don't necessarily need you who are bringing something and filling your cup up. So it's good to measure the time that you're spending with people because if you're exhausting yourself on three people that are fair weather friends, and then you've lost all your energy for the real friend, you have to kind of measure who brings what into your life and what is the value and how much of a priority each friend is. Communicating with someone how you like to be

communicated with, which you both said I think is awesome. So for example, maybe it's, sorry, I can't come to your birthday party, but let's grab coffee and set a date, you know, so that you get that one-on-one time with someone who does fill your cup. Yeah, that's a nice idea. Because you like to text and I like to call, so I just have to hang out in person. So we'll just have to Marco Polo. We'll meet each other in the middle. Do you call or do you FaceTime? Oh, I like to call because I like, what if I'm peeing or, you know, I don't, that's a lot. FaceTiming is a lot. Right. Well, FaceTiming is a lot. I consider that to be an assault. You know what I mean? Like you can't just fucking FaceTime me, but most of my people know that. Nobody does that.

Talking on the phone, I have to say, is sexier than FaceTiming. There's a little mystery. Yes. Like staring at somebody for two hours is just not a fun. There's like a man that you're texting and all of a sudden it goes beep, beep, beep, beep. And you're like, oh, shit. And you're like putting on some eyeliner really fast. One minute.

You just throw your phone in the toilet. Oh, my God. Well, Kayla, let us know how it goes. Yeah, Kelly, hopefully we gave you some advice. Yeah, yeah. Well, our first caller today is Dane. And this one is a bit of a gut punch. So fair warning.

Okay. Dear Chelsea, I'm writing in today because I'm a trans guy. And my mom has been ashamed of me ever since I came out as trans to her almost a decade ago. She didn't understand then and still doesn't. We didn't speak for almost nine months because she didn't respect my name change and my pronouns. When I would tell her it hurt my feelings that she didn't even try to use my preferred name or pronouns, she'd lecture me for hours about how selfish I was or I needed to grow up and understand that the real world would never be as understanding as she was. She's a proud conservative and conspiracy theorist and takes every opportunity to spread her ignorance. I'm at my wits end. She's currently engaged to a guy who's even more transphobic than she is. He supposedly loves me, but here's the thing, he doesn't know I'm trans. If he knew, I think he'd lose it.

He saw a picture of me pre-transition early in their relationship and asked her about it. Instead of the truth, she told him that she had a daughter who was killed in a drug driving accident. When I had top surgery several years ago, she made up excuses and lied to him about why she was coming over to check on me. She's my only remaining family. I've always taken care of her since I was a young child. I was the parent for both of us. She sees me as her son now, but still posts transphobic things online constantly. She isn't supportive of my long-term transition goals, and if I so much as cough, she blames it on my hormone therapy. As I get older and work through all my trauma and therapy, I'm starting to wonder

how much I should keep trying with her. I don't want to lose my only family, but I also feel so jaded from everything she's put me through. What should I do, Dane? Hi, Dane. Dane. Hi. Oh, my God. This is Dylan Mulvaney. She's our guest today. So you have another set of years. Nice to meet you.

First of all, I just want to, I wish I could give you like the biggest hug ever. I'm trans as well. And I know that our journeys are very different, but I can relate on multiple levels. You know, I come from a very conservative family as well. And I know how frustrating this might be. But I do believe people are capable of change. And sometimes it can take a long time. But I also, what I worry about with your mom is it sounds like she loves you with almost like an asterisk of like what that means.

You know, there's all of these layers of getting to that love that, you know, should just be so pure between a parent and a child with no, what's the word? Unconditional. It should be unconditional love between a mother and a child or between hopefully any two people. But unfortunately, that's not the world we live in. But continue. And I'm just hoping that outside of this one person that is technically your biological family, I just want you to have the most amazing chosen family around you. And I want you to be surrounded with other trans people that love you and making sure that when those transphobic comments do come from someone like your mom, that they can be there to step up and say, that's not true. We know you and this is what we see. And I just, I don't want you to lose

your favorite parts of yourself because of that bond that you're trying so hard to keep together. Do you have any thoughts, Chels? Yeah, I would say that your mom is really toxic for you at this stage in your life. I also believe people change, but her behavior posting anti-trans shit online when she knows that she has a son who's trans is just that's like hanging out with your own bully. You know what I mean? Like, I don't think that there's any benefit or change that's going to happen from continuing this relationship, especially after the circumstances you mentioned in this letter. Your stepfather who she lied to about her son. I mean, what is that? That's crazy.

Yeah. I mean, that's very psychotic behavior. And you can't pretend somebody died. Like, that's psychotic. Yeah. So I think based on her behavior alone, like, I think you kind of owe it to yourself to create a lot of distance and enjoy the people that you have in your life that really love you. I know this is your mother and then that's very difficult. I've never had to like disassociate from my parents, but I would say that it's not in your best interest

to have her in your life. Yeah. Yeah. I, you know, we've had periods in our relationship where we have gone months at a time without speaking. And because of all of the trauma that we've had periods in our relationship where we have gone months at a time without speaking. And because of all of the trauma that we've been through individually and together, we always kind of end up coming back together. And that in itself is really hard. What kind of trauma are you talking about? Are you talking about your transition or are you talking about other trauma? Other trauma. Okay. Like what?

Really bad stuff that she's done and that was done to both of us throughout my childhood her childhood i see you know it's brutal trauma bonding is a real thing and especially when we're all each other has it makes it extra hard you know to kind of sever those ties and it makes it it hard to when, when there is that distance and that separation, then promises are made that, oh, yeah, we'll try or we won't, you know, we won't talk about these things, or we won't do this. And then those promises fade away and old habits come out. And then it's just like, oh, you're, you haven't really changed, you know, you're still the same toxic person. And you just kind of wanted to Trojan horse your way back in. So it's hard.

And I do believe people can change. You know, I'm evidence of that. You know, I've changed a lot and I've grown and healed in a lot of really positive ways. You're amazing. Thank you. But it's hard to want the same thing for her, you know, to want her to heal

and for her to grow in positive ways, but to not be able to force that and just to kind of have to bear the burden of that trauma and that weight and not walk together in the light. You know what I mean? Yeah. You said that you ended up taking care of her. And I want you to know that that was not your job and that a child should be a child and

a parent should be the parent and that those roles that were placed on you are not normal. That wasn't healthy. And they've continued throughout your life, even though you're now also an adult. And I believe that your transness was probably one of the first times that you went against taking care of her because that was you taking care of yourself and that scared the shit out of her. And that transphobia, it could have been anything, but it was your transness that took precedent because that's who you are. That was always who you've been.

And I think for her, that resentment towards your transness also comes from the fact that you were able to stand up to her and say, this is who I am. I'm playing by these rules. And that's kind of one of the only times that you've done that because it was so important to you.

But you need to be able to do that in every area of your life and not just your gender identity, because that is when she will actually see you as an equal and as an adult and someone that, you know, it's kind of sounds like maybe you should go cold turkey for a second and show her what it's like to experience her life without you because you bring so much light to it that maybe she needs to be reminded just exactly how much light that is. If you do choose to keep a relationship with her at all, you got to unfollow the Facebook, you got to unfollow all the socials, mute, whatever you got to do. But like, you don't need to see that you don't need that popping up in your

day. And give yourself boundaries as well. Because I know you live in different places. When you do go to visit, don't stay at her house, you need to stay nearby somewhere else so that when you need to retreat and go into your own space, you have the opportunity to do that. Yeah. And creating boundaries, You need to create boundaries. Also, the fact that she has not told her husband that you're trans, that is like such a huge red flag of shame. And you, there is nothing to be ashamed of, of being you. And it breaks my heart that she is so scared to even share that with another very important person in her life. And so I think before that reunion can happen, I think that

conversation needs to happen. And it might prolong that time apart and it might get even messier. But I don't think you can go forward in this relationship with that secret and my god like you're her child at the end of the day that should take the cake I have a question have you had any separation from her like have you guys ever taken a time out from your relationship yeah like we've had periods of up to like almost a year of not speaking not seeing each other at all and then you kind of just revert back to where it started or back to your regular habits with each other? You know, over time, it doesn't just go immediately back to like, oh, we're super, you know, super close. Take some time to get back

there. But yeah, eventually we end up back, you know, two peas in a pod kind of thing. We've never gotten fully, you know, back to where we were like when we were when I was a kid. But see, you just almost said when we were kids, that's how you think of her as a kid, you know, because that's how she is behaving probably and how you guys trauma bonded in the first place, because you were both in a situation where you felt like you were being treated like children or you were acting like children when you were a child and she wasn't. So trauma bonding is very, very complicated. And do you have a therapist that you see? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, you think I'm surviving without a therapist? Yeah, well, honey. Do you have other trans people in your life that are lifting you up? Not closely. I'm part of a few online groups that I reach out to occasionally for support for my transition goals, but I'm not like close with any trans people. Really? Well, I'll be close to you.

Please, by all means, I would love that because it's hard out here. It is hard. Where are you? Where do you live? I'm in the Portland area. Okay. I was going to say we should get you connected with Shane from season one. Oh. Yes, yes. Oh, my gosh. Prison is not a joke, right? Yes.

Yeah. We'll follow each other. Yeah, we have to connect you with Shane, too. He transitions as well. And didn't tell his family for like eight years. Yes, yes. Yeah. That's the way to do it.

Yeah, I think that's a very good goal for you. Also is to have a little bit more of a community for you. Take Dylan up on her offering and you guys can connect online and also we'll connect you with Shane. But yeah, I think you need a time out from your mom. And I think before you reintroduce her back into your life, then you're going to have to really set some clear boundaries for your own mental health. You know, don't follow her.

You don't need to be exposed to any of that, what Catherine said. But also for her to be able to be in your life, she has to meet certain requirements. And that's up to you what those have to be. But I would suggest that one of them should be truthful to the person that she's marrying about the truth of your situation, because any secret builds shame and it's unnecessary. Yeah. Actually, you know, I finished reading this book, Healing the Shame That Binds You by

John Bradshaw. And I really, I loved it. I've been wanting a huge reading cake lately. And I really enjoyed that book because it's all about toxic shame. And I sent it to my mom. I was like, you should really read this. And she's like, oh yeah, I'll check it out. I don't know that she actually will, but if she does, maybe it'll teach her a few helpful lessons. Hey, you gave her a resource and now it's a two-way street and she can meet you halfway. It's the least she could do. We'll see. Yeah. And then how does it feel to you when we say to take a break from your mother? How does that make you feel? I mean, it's something that I've done before and something that I'm fully aware is logical and reasonable and something that is good for me by all accounts. And will you let her know you're taking a break or you'll just

phase out? It'll probably just phase out. I mean, she already senses distance between us, you know, like she and that'll make her even try to cling harder because she she'll randomly guilt me about certain things when she senses that distance. Like, yeah, I know I haven't been the best mother and, you know, but you turned out so great despite me, that kind of thing. And actions speak louder than words. So, yeah, 100 percent. I think it would benefit. I'm always into writing a letter, like even if it's a goodbye letter, it's nice to write it. Whether you send it or not is up to you.

And maybe this is something you can discuss further with your therapist. But you should write a letter about how it feels for your mother to deny who you are. Oh, I got you beat on that. I don't mean to interrupt you, but I sent her like an hour long video. This is the last time we didn't speak for six months. Oh, really? I sent her an hour-long video of, this is all the abuse that you put me through. I'm tired of you hating on me and other trans people and minorities and all this shit that you post online. I'm sick

of it. It was literally an hour-long video. Her response to me was just i'm so tired of you you know hating on me just because of my political views i've walked on eggshells around you for the last five years you know it's not i think we just need a break from each other is basically what she said political views yeah it's like it's called human rights totally disregarded everything i said about you know the abuse and the way she treats me and me being trans. She just disregarded all that. I was just like, sorry, my politics offend you. Let's take a break from each other. Yeah. Well, maybe it's not so accusatory or maybe it's not such an indictment of her. Maybe you can make it short and sweet and put it in writing. So it's not even you speaking. So she

can't be misinterpreted. Just saying how much I love you. You're my mother. You know, you gave birth to me. We've been through a lot together and now I have to get healthy and I can't be misinterpreted. Just saying how much I love you. You're my mother. You gave birth to me. We've been through a lot together. And now I have to get healthy. And I can't do that when my true personhood is being denied by the person who gave birth to me. And make it so simple and not make it about you did this, you did this, you did this.

It's about how you feel and why you have to move on. And of course, she may not accept that or think it's garbage or dismiss it. But it's a nice way of ending or putting like a pin in something without having anything left unsaid or unspoken. It's not mandatory. But if you feel like doing something like that and writing something short and sweet that isn't nasty or harmful, but it's about you and your growth. It might be something that sits better with her because she's obviously on the defense all the time. Maybe it could be like what you would love to have in a mom and not how she's not those

things. But like, I think now it's you aren't a child anymore. And so you get to redefine this relationship of what does a parent mean to you now? And these are the things that, you know, is it I need a cheerleader? I personally have actually been through something a little similar as of recently. I want to tell you that it's going to be OK. And I'm just I want you to have all the trans people in your life. I think trans masculine people also to make sure that you feel so supported that, you know, your magic and that you are so loved. Thank you. I really appreciate that.

Yeah, you are loved. So like know that what you did is really, really brave. Like you're a brave person and you don't have to subject yourself to people that make you feel less than. It's just not your responsibility. You're not responsible for your mother. You're not responsible for anything but your own decency and like humanness.

You know what I mean? And as long as you're following your gut and you're following your instinct and you're being good to people around you and being loving and caring of others, there's nothing wrong with that. That's a beautiful, beautiful thing. And the road that you got here, like it sounds like you've been through a lot of trauma. You don't deserve any more trauma. Yeah. I definitely don't want any more. Let me tell you that. Yeah. Well, Dane, thank you so much for sharing with us. I know this is really, really tough stuff. Yeah. I definitely don't want anymore. Let me tell you that. Yeah. Well, Dane, thank you so much for sharing with us.

I know this is really, really tough stuff. Yeah. We're sending you a lot of love, honey bunny. Yeah. When I was writing into you guys, I was just thinking of the Martha Stewart episode where she's like,

Chelsea, you get some really heavy shit on here. Yeah. Meanwhile, Martha was not fucking ready for that. I was like, all right, Martha,

this might not be the right person to have people calling in since she can't relate to anybody normal. If she listens to this, she's just like, ah. No, she won't be listening to this. I promise you. She's baking. Yeah, she's baked. In more ways than one. Yeah, she's baked.

Oh, poor Martha. Okay. Well, Dane, keep in touch with us, okay? If you need anything ever again let us know thank you guys so much take care okay bye the idea of all these people these parents I don't understand how parents can disown their own child I as a non-parent wouldn't be able to disown a human being that came to me and said, I'm different than what we thought, you know, like, or whatever. Yeah, like, it doesn't even have to be related to me.

So I don't understand this. Like, I guess I'm just in a bubble. I am in a bubble. Inside you two wolves are locked in battle. One thrives on fear and anger and doubt. The other? Courage, wisdom, and love. Every decision, every moment feeds one of them. Which wolf are you feeding? I'm Eric Zimmer, host of The One You Feed. I've been there, homeless, addicted, and lost. I know the power of small choices to turn your life around. On this podcast, I sit down with thinkers, leaders, and survivors to uncover what it takes to feed the good wolf.

This podcast saved me. It's like having a guide for the hardest parts of life. The wolves are hungry. What will you feed them? Listen to The One You Feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 2025 is bound to be a fascinating year. It's going to be filled with money challenges and opportunities. I'm Joel. Oh, and I am Matt. And we're the hosts of How To Money. We want to be with you every step of the way in your financial journey this year, offering the information and insights you

need to thrive financially. Yeah, whether you find yourself up to your eyeballs in student loan debt or you've got a sky-high credit card balance because you went a little overboard with the holiday spending, or maybe you're looking to optimize your retirement accounts so you can retire early, well, How to Money will help you to change your relationship with money so you can stress less and grow your net worth. That's right. How to Money comes out three times a week, Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, for money advice without the judgment and jargon. Listen to How to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jason Alexander.

And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really No Really podcast, our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor. We got the answer. Will space junk block your cell signal? The astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer. We talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you

and the one bringing back the woolly mammoth. Plus, does Tom Cruise really do his own stunts? His stuntman reveals the answer. And you never know who's going to drop by. Mr. Bryan Cranston is with us today. How are you, too? Hello, my friend. Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park. Wayne Knight, welcome to Really No Really, sir.

Bless you all. Hello, Newman. And you never know when Howie Mandel might just stop by to talk about judging. Really? That's the opening? Really No Really. Yeah, really. No really. Go to reallynoreally.com and register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast or a limited edition

signed Jason bobblehead. It's called Really No Really, and you can find it on the iHeartRadio app on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. going on my 10th season in New York. And I'm Anya Packer, a former pro hockey player and now a full Madison Packers stan. Anya and I met through hockey, and now we're married and moms to two awesome toddlers. And on our new podcast, Moms Who Puck, we're opening up about the chaos of our daily lives between the juggle of being athletes, raising children, and all the messiness in between.

We're also turning to fellow athletes and beyond to learn about their parenthood journeys and collect valuable advice, like FIFA World Cup winner Ashlyn Harris. I wish my village would have prepared me for how hard motherhood was going to be. And Peloton instructor and Ratchet Mom Club founder, Kirsten Ferguson. And I remember going in there a hot mess. So listen to Moms Who Puck, a production of iHeart Women's Sports and Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. And I thought this was a good question because it sort of has less to do with actually dating and more to do with how other people perceive us as we move through the world after talking to her. But Marie says, Dear Chelsea, I'm a 31-year-old woman currently living in North Carolina.

I realized in my late 20s that I was not attracted to men after years of suppressing my attraction to women. I've been on several dates with women who I feel attracted to. The dates have gone well. suppressing my attraction to women. I've been on several dates with women who I feel attracted to. The dates have gone well. When I ask that person out again, I'm always hit with, oh, well, I'm not looking to date anyone currently, or I just didn't feel anything romantic with you. If this happened once or twice, I'd be able to brush it off. However, this has happened after every single date I've had or every connection I make on dating apps. I appreciate the honesty from these women women and I appreciate their communication versus being ghosted, but I feel like maybe I'm undateable. Do you have any advice for me or other people currently struggling with the challenges of

dating in the modern world? Marie. Hi, Marie. Hi, Marie. Hi, Chelsea. Hi. Hi. How are you? I'm doing well. How are you doing? We're good. This is Dylan Milvaney. She's our special guest today. So say hello to Dylan. Hi, Dylan. Nice to meet you, Marie. Nice to meet you. So just to rewind, just to recap, you said as you started becoming interested in women, it's been more difficult to date.

Yeah. So I was definitely struggling with figuring out who I was attracted to because I was dating men at the time. And I just absolutely was not attracted to them going out on these dates. So I started talking to a few friends and one of my friends had suggested, you know, maybe maybe you're actually attracted to women. You should try dating some women just just trying to, you know, figure out who you are. Of course, it was also COVID lockdowns. And then with the challenges of working a pretty busy job and then starting school, I just wasn't really focused on my dating life until probably around the end of 2022. And then, you know, starting 2023 is when I really kind of started seriously getting back into the dating game. With the past couple of dates I've went on, I felt like the connection not really feeling a connection here. You know, hey, I'm not really thinking about dating at this time. And I'm not sure if I'm doing something unintentionally or subconsciously where I'm putting off like a vibe

of like, hey, maybe, you know, I'm not interested in this person or anything like that. I'm just not sure if I potentially could be doing something that would be causing that. How many dates were you, did you go on? I've been on three so far. I've asked out probably a total of five people. Two of the people I've asked out, you know, they told me like, hey, I'm not looking at the date right now. Or hey, I'm sorry. I just, I just started in a relationship with somebody else. And then the three actual physical dates I've been on, I've been ghosted by one person. And the other person is like, hey, you know, not really feeling a spark here. And then the last one was really the kind of the one that hurt the most because I did feel probably the most chemistry with this individual. The date went really well.

And I'm not much of a hugger, but she went to hug me at the end of the night. And, you know, I hugged her back and I was really hoping that maybe she'd want to go out with me again. But I went to ask like a week later and she told me like, hey, no, sorry, I'm not interested in like dating at this time. Okay. Do you feel like something's happening on these dates? Do you feel like you have a decent sense of self-awareness is the question? Yeah, I do feel like I have a decent sense of self-awareness. I do feel that I'm a pretty competent individual and I do try to be an active listener when I am going out with these people. So, you know, if they tell me something, asking a follow-up question, you know, related to the conversation

we've been having, I'm not sure if there's something subconsciously I could be doing that would be giving off that vibe. But I do feel like I'm pretty self-aware when I am on these dates. Okay. Well, what I would say is, first of all, you should relax your attitude about the whole thing, okay? Because life is about rejection. You're going to get rejected a ton of times. It's going to happen again. It's going to keep happening. You know what I mean? And then there are going to be people in between that you're going to date and that you're going to have, and it's going to be mutual. You need to look at this, just kind of change your perspective, I think will change

the outcome a lot. I think you should look at these things as more casual and be a little bit lighter. If you can figure out a way to really relax yourself before you go on these dates so that you're not coming off too strong or you're not coming off too rigid. I know you said you're not a hugger, like that can kind of send out a certain energy when people don't like to be hugged. When someone goes in for a hug and that person's not a hugger, you can feel it and that can kind of send out a certain energy when people don't like to be hugged. When someone goes in for a hug and that person's not a hugger, you can feel it. And that can kind of be a chasm. Do you meditate at all? I've started to get into the meditation. I had downloaded the Calm app yesterday and I've been starting to get into that a little bit. Is that what you use, Calm? Well, I was just going to say it's the universe must have been tapping you on the shoulder because that's a good

app. And I wanted to know what city do you live in? Because I'm available. I'm kidding. The closest big city that I'm located to would be La F***. Okay. I was just curious about what the lesbian scene is like out there. Because with experience now being around some lesbians out here, they stick together. You know, we travel in packs.

I go both ways right now. But I will say that maybe if you can insert yourself into just being friends with some gals who like gals in your area, that way, you know, people can get to know you or these potential women can see you. They can experience you, get your personality, get at your quirks. They'll learn that you maybe aren't a hugger, but love that about you. And then something could potentially happen more organically. Whereas right now, if you're meeting people online, there's this

precedent like, oh, we're here not to be friends, we're here to potentially date. And that's a lot of pressure. Whereas I think in the queer community, so much of it happens in person. It happens at a gay bar or a bonfire, just that fun, lively queer connection. So I would almost take a detour from the dating and really focus on finding some amazing lesbian friends that can also help guide you to some other people, hopefully nearby. Yeah, I think that's really good advice. And making it a numbers game. So going on lots of first dates. Think of first dates as just like throwaways a little bit. Think of it as practice. Exactly. You don't have to look at a date like, okay, I hope this is the one. You can look at it as like, what a great way to get to know how to do this better and how to relax yourself. So there's not so much pressure each time you go out. It's almost like if you overdate for a little bit, you get more comfortable with dating. Yeah. You know? And I know you have a really intense job and she's in the army as well. I could tell. I was going to

say, are you in the military? Yeah. So maybe, you know, not going on a date right after work where you have to bring that intensity, you know, maybe taking some time to breathe, to decompress, listen to some like nice music, move your body a little bit before you go on a date. So you're just to decompress. You do need to meditate. You do need to relax so that you can, so you're not bringing your job to your dates with you, right? I'm sure your job is a huge part of your life, but until you get to know somebody, that's not their responsibility. So, you know, you have to just, I think your job from here, from this phone call, your takeaway should be ways to really calm yourself so that you're walking into this with an energy of fun, not, okay, I'm going to conquer this. You know what I mean? Like, I'm going to get my girlfriend. You should go in it as like experiential, like, okay, this is going to be wonderful. I'm going to learn about this person. And then I'm going to learn about this person.

And it's not so methodical. It can be a more casual experience. And like what Dylan was saying, do you, do you have a group of friends? Do you have a group of lesbians or any friends that are lesbians? Nobody really close by, but I did join like a meetup group where it was, you know, like, hey, LGBT, let's go on hikes on the weekend. Activities like that, that I was thinking about, like meeting up with some of those people on a, you know, weekend hike. I'm obsessed with that.

And you already made that initial step. And I'm someone I'll be honest with you. I haven't even been kissed as a girl yet. And I've never dated anyone seriously. And I just think that we are going to find someone amazing. And it probably might even happen in person. Because if these apps don't, I don't feel like they're working for me. It sounds like maybe you're having some trouble too. Let's get in one of those groups and let's meet some hot people. Yeah, that sounds great. Yeah, it just takes one.

My best girlfriend was in a super similar position to you. She had dated guys. It wasn't working out. She decided to date women. And she was so intimidated every time she'd go on a date that like she would call it off right afterward. Then she finally met someone. She's like, this is going to be nothing. It's just a friend thing.

She just came out too. We're going to hang out. They made out for four hours and they're still together a year later. So it just takes that one, you know? Yeah. And treat everything a little bit more lightly. Like you were just smiling. You're beautiful.

You have a beautiful smile. Enjoy yourself. It doesn't have to be serious. It can be fun. And so just focus on the aspects of fun and relaxation and being present. And it will be a lot easier for you. You know, you won't feel so rejected

when something doesn't work out. There's no reason to feel that way. There's 8 billion people in this world. You know, you're not going to hit it off with everybody and have sexual chemistry with everybody. That's kind of a natural selection sort of thing. So just try and take it down a notch in terms of your expectations and being so kind of rigid or regimented about them. Sure, sure. That's all great advice. I really appreciate it from everybody here. And start that calm. You're see a difference in your in the way you feel

five or ten minutes a day and you'll start to feel differently i promise that all right sounds good well thank you so much marie and marie posted good luck we hope you get some putang soon thank you oh that was so cute i immediately when she started talking I'm like she the fucking army or what this and the hair and the thing and I'm like oh my god when you said that I was gonna say do you work in the military completely when she first when we had our pre-interview call she was in like her military garb and I was like wow I'm so afraid and intimidated right now it was like hot but intimidating but also imagine that balance Like when you're doing that, you're serving in the armed forces

and then you're supposed to have like this casual encounter. It doesn't- You can't approach it the same way at all. No, no. It's a total seesaw. So yeah. So that makes sense. Anyway.

Okay. Well, oh, we're going to wrap up, right? Exactly. We'll take a break. And we're going to wrap up with Dylan Mulvaney. Inside you, two wolves are locked in battle. One thrives on fear and anger and doubt.

The other, courage, wisdom, and love. Every decision, every moment feeds one of them. Which wolf are you feeding? I'm Eric Zimmer, host of The One You Feed. I've been there, homeless, addicted, and lost. I know the power of small choices to turn your life around. On this podcast, I sit down with thinkers, leaders, and survivors to uncover

what it takes to feed the good wolf. This podcast saved me. It's like having a guide for the hardest parts of life. The wolves are hungry. What will you feed them? Listen to The One You Feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 2025 is bound to be a fascinating year. It's going to be filled with money challenges and opportunities. I'm Joel. Oh, and I am Matt. And we're the hosts of How To Money. We want to be with you every step of the way in your financial journey this year, offering the information and insights you need to thrive financially. Yeah, whether you find

yourself up to your eyeballs in student loan debt, or you've got a sky-high credit card balance because you went a little overboard with the holiday spending, or maybe you're looking to optimize your retirement accounts so you can retire early, well, How to Money will help you to change your relationship with money

so you can stress less and grow your net worth. That's right. How to Money comes out three times a week, Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays for money advice without the judgment and jargon. Listen to how to money on the I heart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the really, no really podcast. Our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions. Like why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor we got the answer will space junk block your cell signal the astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer we talk with the

scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you and the one bringing back the woolly mammoth plus does tom cruise really do his own stunts? His stuntman reveals the answer. And you never know who's going to drop by. Mr. Brian Cranston is with us today. How are you, too? Hello, my friend. Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park. Wayne Knight, welcome to Really No Really, sir.

Bless you all. Hello, Newman. And you never know when Howie Mandel might just stop by to talk about judging. Really? That's the opening? Really No Really. Yeah, really. No really. Go to reallynoreally.com.

And register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason Bobblehead. It's called Really, No Really, and you can find it on the iHeartRadio app, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone. I'm Madison Packer, a pro hockey veteran going on my 10th season in New York. And I'm Anya Packer, a former pro hockey player and now a full Madison Packer stan. Anya and I met through hockey, and now we're married and moms to two awesome toddlers. And on our new podcast, Moms Who Puck, we're opening up about the chaos of our daily lives between the juggle of being athletes, raising children, and all the messiness in between. We're also turning to fellow athletes and beyond to learn about their parenthood journeys and lives, between the juggle of being athletes, raising children, and all the messiness in between.

We're also turning to fellow athletes and beyond to learn about their parenthood journeys and collect valuable advice, like FIFA World Cup winner Ashlyn Harris. I wish my village would have prepared me for how hard motherhood was going to be. And Peloton instructor and Ratchet Mom Club founder, Kirsten Ferguson. And I remember going in there a hot mess. So listen to Moms Who Puck, a production of iHeart Women's Sports and Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. And we're back!

We're back! We're back! Just a delight. Just an absolute delight having you here, Dylan. I loved you before I met you, and I love you now. And I just can't wait to see what's in store for you. I'm so excited. I do have one question for you before I leave.

So we just talked about how Miss Marie there doesn't have anyone. I have yet to be kissed as a girl. I wanted to know, do you think it would be better for me to rip off the bandaid and just get it done? Or should I save it for someone special? I'm always about ripping off the bandaid. I think I just, you know what it was? I needed to hear it from you. And so tonight I'm going to hit the town. I love it. I love it. We'll report back. Will do.

Thank you, Dylan. Thank you, everybody. See you next week. Love ya. If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email at dearchelseapodcast at gmail.com. And be sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert, executive producer Catherine Law. And be sure to check out our merch at chelseahandler.com. Joel, the holidays are a blast, but the financial hangover, that can be a huge bummer. If you are out there and you're dreading the new statement email

that reveals the massive balance that you may have racked up, well, you could use our help. That's right. I'm Joel. And I am Matt. And we're from the How To Money podcast. Our show is all about helping you make sense of your personal finances so you can ditch your pesky credit card debt once and for all, make real progress on other crucial financial goals that you've got, and just feel more in control of your money in general. You know it. For money advice without the judgment and jargon, listen to How To Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. about the art of small, powerful choices. Our listeners say it all. This is a lifeline. Transformational.

The best antidote to a bad mood I've ever heard. Join the pack and start feeding your best self. Listen to The One You Feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together, our mission on the Really No Really podcast is to get the true answers to life's baffling

questions like, why the bathroom door doesn't go all the way to the floor, what's in the museum of failure, and does your dog truly love you? We have the answer. Go to reallynoreally.com and register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. The Really Know Really podcast.

Follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Decisions Decisions, the podcast where boundaries are pushed and conversations get candid. Join your favorite hosts, me, Weezy WTF, and me, Mandy B, as we dive deep into

the world of non-traditional relationships and explore the often taboo topics surrounding dating, sex, and love. Every Monday and Wednesday, we both invite you to unlearn the outdated narratives dictated by traditional patriarchal norms. Tune in and join the conversation. Listen to

Decisions Decisions on the Black Effect Podcast Network iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.