Dear Chelsea - Night Thoughts with Kumail Nanjiani

Episode Date: January 1, 2026

Kumail Nanjiani (OH MARY!, Night Thoughts) joins Chelsea to talk about building trust in a relationship, surviving the loss of his cat Bagel, and why working out is actually very nerdy.  Then: A doggy deal breaker is just the tip of the iceberg in one man’s troubled relationship.  And tension around tipping leads to an embarrassing situation for a restaurant’s regular.  * Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail] * Executive Producer Catherine Law Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert * * * The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers? Who catfishes a city? Is it even safe to snort human remains? Is that the plot of Footloose? I'm comedian Rory Scoville, and I'm here to tell you, Josh Dean and I have a new podcast that celebrates the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals. It's called Crimeless, a true crime comedy podcast.

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Nashville on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody. It's Michelle Williams, host of checking in on the Black Effect podcast network. You know, we always say New Year, New Me, but real change starts on the inside. It starts with giving your mind and your spirit the same attention you give your goals. And on my podcast, we talk mental health, healing, growth, and everything you need to step into your next season, whole and empowered. New Year, real you. Listen to checking in with Michelle Williams

from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Who would you call if the unthinkable happened? I said, it was y'all 22 times. A police officer, right? But what do you do when the monster is the man in blue? This dude is the devil. He hurt you.

This is the story of a detective who thought he was above the law. until we came together to take him down. I said, you're going to see my face till the day that you die. I got you, I got you, I got you. Listen to the girlfriends, untouchable, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. I know he has a reputation, but it's going to catch up to him. Gabe Ortiz is a cop. His brother, Larry, a mystery Gabe didn't want to solve, until it was too late. He was the head of this gang.

You're going to push that line for the cause. Took us under his wing and showed us the game, as they call it. When Larry's killed, Gave Must Untangle a Dangerous Past, one that could destroy everything he thought he knew. Listen to the Brothers Ortiz on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I just announced all my tour dates. It's called the High and Mighty Tour.

I'm coming to Washington, D.C., Norfolk, Virginia, Madison, Wisconsin, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Detroit, Michigan, Cleveland, Columbus, and Cincinnati, Ohio, Denver, Colorado, Portland, Maine, Providence, Rhode Island, Springfield, Massachusetts, Chicago, of course, Indianapolis, Indiana, Louisville, Kentucky, Albuquerque, Mesa, Arizona, Kansas City, Missouri, St. Louis, Louis, Missouri, Minneapolis, Minnesota, Nashville, Tennessee, Charlotte, North Carolina, Durham, North Carolina, Saratoga, California, Monterey, California, Modesto, California, and Port Chester, New York, Boston, Massachusetts, Portland, Oregon, and Seattle, Washington. I will be touring from February through June. So go get your tickets now. If you want to come see me perform, I will be on the high and mighty tour. Happy New Year, Catherine. It's New Year's Day. Hi, hi. I'm hoping it's nice and frosty and whistle. It is not frosty here in L.A. It is. It's nice and frosty.

Unfortunately, I have to head back to L.A. today and leave Whistler, but that's okay because I have to prep for the Critics' Choice Awards. It's going to be so great this year. I'm really excited for you. I'm excited. I'm excited. It's always so fun to do. So we'll just get right into it. This guy's another comedian. He's probably now one of my favorite comedians after watching his new special and after spending time with him.

I was doing a shoot with him a few months ago. and he is an Oscar-nominated writer, Emmy-nominated and SAG Award winning actor and critically acclaimed producer and comedian. Who's a critically acclaimed producer? Please welcome Kumail Nanjiani. For Christmas, everybody. We brought you a Jew and a Pakistani.

Yes. And, you know, jerked over a men to night. That's, you know. Yeah, exactly. Okay, please welcome Kamail Nanjiani. Did I say it right, Kamal? Yeah, you said it right. You just didn't say it with a lot of confidence, but that's okay.

Well, I mean, the confidence precedes me, so I don't even need the confidence. Camille Nanjiani. That's right. Oh, I did. Yes. I got the pleasure of hanging out with Camel. We were working on something with Kevin Hart, you know, that little nugget who just got nominated for a Golden Globe, by the way, for his stand-up special. I can't think of anyone who deserves it less.

And we- Well, I also got nominated. Oh, my God. Yes. You did? Yeah, I did not explain. It's expected. My special is not even out yet, but yeah. Oh my God. You know what? I was watching it yesterday. I watched Kumail special. It's called

Night Thoughts. It's going to be on Hulu, right? Yeah, December 19th on Hulu. December 19th, it comes out, you guys. And I was watching a Camel and I was like, I can't believe that you got nominated either. I thought you wouldn't, if it's not out yet, you wouldn't qualify. Yeah, the cutoff is like December 31st. But yeah, I had such a great time doing that thing with you and Kevin. Well, first of all, let's, okay, now we're going to all carried away. Okay, let's go back to that. We filmed something with Kevin. We'll probably, you'll hear about that later and another friend of ours, Keegan. And I hadn't really hung out with you, Camel, I guess, ever, which is weird, but I assumed I had. Anyway, we had a blast.

And Kevin just wanted me to be there because he needed somebody to drink with. Because Camel and Kegan were, you know, acting like normal people. But we filmed something around the stand-up world. And we had, I had a great time with you, Camel. I had a great time with you. It was funny. And your and Kevin's dynamic is so funny to me. I was laughing so much because, you know, it's Kevin Hart, obviously, he's, he's an enterprise, right? He's not even a celebrity. He's like, an enterprise rent a car to be specific. A compact. He's, but so he's surrounded by all these people that he's the king of, right? And then you're there. And the entire time you are just picking on him. It's so funny. I loved it so much. Oh, I'm so glad. I'm so glad you were

there to witness it because it is really fun when he and I get together and do stuff together because he just, I think he really enjoys the abuse. He does. He does. I don't think he gets it very much. He's just, you know what's surprising about him? And I don't know him that well either. That's the most have hung out with him. But I had hung out with it more than I'd hung out with you. he's a true comedian like he's like loves comedy he approaches it like a stand-up he really like so so he the ball-busting and stuff he's not like an actor who does stand-up I know he started off as a stand-up but he's still a stand-up yeah he and he really respects the art of stand-up and he really wants other people to succeed in stand-up he enjoys watching it and he'll

spit when you see this project you'll see him watch comedians and then spit back out their material to him. I was impressed, actually, with him that day, and that doesn't happen frequently. So that was fun. But let's get back to night thoughts. Your stand-of-special, which is just nominated for a Golden Globe. I didn't even look at the list. I just saw Kevin posted to congratulate himself. So congratulations to you, Camel. And when I was watching it, I was like this, but you should definitely get nominated. Because A, you're so fucking funny. And you're so funny in a non-brough-ick way. you're just you make everything listen I'm not into cats at all I don't want to see them or talk about them and you have a bit about cats that is just hilarious and it was the only time I've been actively

listening to a story about a cat for more than about 10 minutes thank you you know you texted me yesterday like the opening soon as I walk out you sent me a video of it and I was like oh Chelsea's watching it and then I got really nervous because I think you're really funny. I respect you, of course, and all that. I'm a fan. And I feel like comedians are the best critics of stand-up comedy because we see people getting nominated all the time for stand-up and you're like, well, that person should have been nominated, should not have been nominated, they shouldn't have been nominated. But other comedians really, really know what good comedy is. So I was really nervous. I don't care what critics say.

I care what comedians say about it. Yeah. And also, I would say as a comedian, it's very hard, I don't know if this is true for you. Tell me, I find it hard to watch stand up on TV. Like in live, you can get down with it. But watching people's specials can always be a little bit tricky. So that's why it was an extra pleasant surprise. I mean, I just was sitting here at my kitchen counter watching on my iPod. And the very first thing out of the gate that you talk about is the very first thing I mentioned to you when I saw you when we were doing our project. which are the muscles that are coming out of the back of your shoulders. I don't know. Are those called rhomboids or are they, what are those called? That's funny. They're called trapezoids, which is another shape. So you were close.

There's two sets, Camel. There's two that come over here, come out of your shoulder. And then his arm has an extra like series or like it's like a mountain range, like a mini mountain range of muscles that comes out that I haven't seen before. I'm actually trying to bring it down, especially the traps. How long did it take you to acquire that body? Because you had to do that for your superhero movies, right? Yeah, I did it for my superhero movie.

That took about a year and a half. But when it really went nuts was in the pandemic. Like I had a full freak out in the year and a half that I did not leave the house. I talk about it a little bit in the special. And all I did, I worked out about four hours every day. I got really obsessed with it. And that's when I, like, sort of got really, really super big. And you just did that because you had nothing else going on, right?

I had nothing else going on. And it was the only thing I could do where I could feel any kind of progress. I was like, oh, I can lift this weight today. I couldn't lift it last week, but I can lift it today. Nothing else was happening. Nothing else was real. I couldn't feel like I was moving in any direction except for working out. It's really the thing that kept me tethered to sanity.

I understand that because you talk, you do address this a little bit in your special, not related to the muscle building and working out, but in being like nervous for your wife because she was immune compromised during COVID. But I understand that too, because isn't it interesting and not to sound like a gym rat, but I just want to say I am from New Jersey, everybody. So we already know this. So I have a predilection for physical fitness. And when you do a set, when you do three sets of something and you do the first set and it's really challenging and hard. and then you go back and you do the second set and it's easier, you realize how quickly you can gain strength. And it is quite a motivating factor.

I think what I've learned most from it is like we limit ourselves all the time. I can't do that, whatever. And with working out, you realize how much of those limits are based on our own, the way we look at ourselves and not what other people tell you or what even the world tells you. So yeah, I mean, I never thought I'd be buff, you know, and the fact that I am, I was like, oh, maybe what else is, like, available to me that I thought wasn't available to me? Accomplishable, right?

Do your wife, do you guys have more sex now that you have a bigger body? No, we have the same amount of sex, which is a very good, healthy amount of sex. But she does say it's like, it's like fucking the corner of a building. I like that a lot. It's, it's, you know, I hugged a buff guy the other day who, was like buffer than me. And I was like, I know exactly what Emily means. Yeah. Yeah. And how did that make you feel when you touched his body like that against your body? I didn't, it didn't feel good. It's not like, you know, Pete Holmes, your buddies with Pete, I'm sure. He in one of his sets,

he talks about how like a good hug is important. And he mentions me and says there's no catharsis. Like you need like cushion for a good hug. And I finally understood what he meant when I hug this buff guy. I don't, listen, as a. As a. woman, I have to say I disagree completely. I don't want to hug a cushion. That I can do on my sofa. When I, I want a man who's got some muscles on him. He doesn't have to be a beefcake like you, but I wouldn't turn that away. I like muscles. I don't, I mean, you know, knowing somebody's spending that much time in the gym is a different story. Yeah, yeah. You want them to just be naturally, physically fit without doing anything. It is nerdy to like spend this much time doing this. It's like,

you have to have. Emily was like, if we first went out and you look like this, I think there was something really wrong with you. Okay, so let's talk about, okay, first I want to talk a little bit about the special because in this special, you really do get emotional two or three times. You were teary-eyed at the gratitude you were feeling towards filming your special back in Chicago where you started stand-up. You filmed it at the Vic Theater. So you started out as a stand-up and you remind people that you're not an actor trying to do stand-up or attempt. to do stand-up off of the back of your success as an actor, but that you began as a stand-up.

And you also talk about, you mentioned therapy a lot during the show, which was really nice to hear from, as a woman, hearing it from a straight man. It's always refreshing for men to be talking about therapy. And then your cat's name is bagel. So let's start with your cat. How is she?

She is not with us anymore. Okay, great, great, great way to start. So this is a great beginning, and hopefully you'll be able to, I don't know, maybe you will cry. Maybe I can make you cry, come out. You know, we got a new, you don't like cats. So this won't be, we got a new kitten a month ago. And that was the first time I was like, oh, it's okay. I don't, you got, you know, I've got a new thing to focus on.

And literally yesterday, when the newness of the new kitten sort of went away, and I love this kitten, and I started missing bagel again. And I hadn't missed her for a month. And I just miss her. So, but you know what? She was 17. She led a great life and, you know, it is what it is. Are you, do you have dogs?

Are you a pet person? I do. And what I want to say to you about this is I always have a dog. I always have one dog and sometimes I have two dogs. But as soon as one of them starts to go downhill, I acquire another dog. Always because I don't have time for grieving. I want to transfer my love. to another person or dog immediately.

And I find that to be in a great approach to, you know, listen, rescue animals or cats or dogs, whatever, even if they're not rescues, they're not going to be here forever. And we know that going in. So you kind of have to like, I just want to kind of get ahead of it. And it's not like it's a person. I don't grieve for my animals like they're people. I don't think that my dog crosses the rainbow highway or whatever when he goes to heaven. I don't talk like that.

I just want them. I love dogs. I love having a dog in my house. And so I'm very pragmatic about it. But I understand that other people are much more sensitive. I was. I mean, she's the first pet I ever had. And Emily and I've been married 18 years and she's been with a 17 years. So it was always the three of us, you know? So yeah, and I'm with you. I don't think my, you know, people will be like, oh, she's still with you. I'm like, she's not. She's not with me. I remember her. Her memories are with me, but there's no, like, spirit that's around. So I completely agree with you. I was talking to Emily yesterday. I was like, we should wait a few years and get another cat just exactly for the reasons you're mentioning so that we have, like, another cat after this one decides to go. You didn't

cry? You don't cry when your dog died? Oh, I cry, but I don't mourn. Like, I, my last dog was actually a really ugly kind of death. And I was, thank you. And I just. I cried. I took her to the event. It was awful. It was dramatic. And it was like a three-day event. But I was able to recuperate pretty quickly. And I also had this new dog, a new puppy that I had rescued. So it was a, it was a, it's a good buffer. But I just do want to say on behalf of bagel, because I feel like I speak for her now, you, that tribute you made to her in your standup. I mean, this is a beautiful way to go out. And it's a beautiful bookend to your love story with bagel. Oh, thank you. Yeah, the way it happened was so weird. I was in New York doing this play. Oh, Mary, right? Oh, Mary, yeah. Really, have you seen it?

No, I have not seen it. Sorry. Yeah, I've seen it. I thought just, I think maybe just before you were in it, but I saw it with Titus. It's really, really funny. And I just love being a, you know, you fucking kill every night. You get a standing ovation, and it has nothing to do with you. It's incredible.

You're like, I'm literally just saying the word someone else wrote and you think I'm a hero. it's so fun but the weird thing was we've had her for 17 years you know she's like such an important part of our life she passes away Saturday morning Emily has to fly an hour later back to L.A. to get a monthly treatment she has to get for her autoimmune condition and I have two shows that day so my cat dies at 9 a.m. I'm on stage at 3 p.m. and then again at 8 p.m. And I never without Emily and I never imagined it would be like that. I thought when she would go Emily and I would like cocoon and be with each other for two weeks. And we didn't even see each other for another week. So it was like really, really intense. And I had this feeling, this is weird. As I was doing

the first show, like four hours after my cat died, I was like 10 minutes in and I wasn't really feeling it. It wasn't going well. And I was like, you know what? This show is my tribute to Bagel. I owe it to her to be funny today. And then that went great. And then the second one went great. Because of that, I was like, I'm doing this for her. And then Sunday was terrible. I was terrible boat shows because I'd spent all night now alone in an apartment without my cat or my wife and I was just miserable. Well, it's nice to know that you're so sensitive, Camille. I like that about you. Well, you know what I realized? This is interesting. I realize I'm the same person I was when I was 14 and I always hated that part of myself. I hated how sensitive I was. Like my feelings would get hurt all the time and that's not how men are supposed to be.

You know, it's not what strength is. And I was very aware of it. And all. through my 20s and 30s, I was like, I'm a different person. I've gotten over that. I understand now I'm stronger. I'm cool. I dress cool, all this stuff. And I realized only a few years ago into my 40s now, I'm still the same guy I was when I was 14. I'm just as sensitive as I've always been. And it's not good or bad. It's just what it is. And I have to accept it. I have to accept that my feelings get hurt very easily. And I have to acknowledge that. Because trying to like get past it has not worked for like fucking 30 years now. Well, so tell me what it was like when you were a kid growing up.

Were you able to communicate with your family and like have this kind of emotional conversations or was that a no-no in your house? It was a no-no, but I think it was self-limited. Like my parents were not like that. My dad, actually, is a very emotional guy and always has been. And I've seen him cry. You know, like I know people like my wife was like, I've seen my dad cry twice when his mother died and when his wife died. I've seen my dad cry hundreds of times. And when I was a little

kid, I really hated that he would cry. I was like, oh, my dad's like, I was like, my dad's a pussy. I did not like that he cried. And he was always very affectionate, like he would kiss us and, you know, was very like emotionally very, very communicative. But for me, I did not like that about him. And now when I look back, I'm so grateful that I had him as like a model for how to be like a man who is connected with his feelings. I was not connected with my feelings. And I had a real anger issue. I would say probably from the age of 10 to kind of all through my 20s and a lot of my 30s as well. But really when I was 13, 14, 15, I was a nice guy.

Nobody saw it except my parents. But when I would get angry and I was so angry I wanted to burn the world. And I could not, it was this horrible feeling of being completely out of control. And I think all of that came out of not being able to address the fact that I was sensitive, that my feelings got hurt very easily. And that anger was something that I really started, didn't start working on until I was in my 30s when Emily and I were together and sometimes we'd get into fights and I would just go to this place that did not feel like me.

And what I had to do was I would feel like I'd have to get to the point. and say the thing that you cannot take back and then that would break it it would break the spell and then I would feel awful and the guilt would be just like punishing myself for what I said and then so it was like the cycle I was in and it wasn't until like you know a few years ago in my 40s when I really started late 30s actually I would say mid to late 30s when I started like trying to be like and it started an acting class I was taking an acting class and I was like oh, there's a lot more in here than I realize and I need to start excavating it because that's, I owe it to Emily first, even before I owe it to myself.

Yeah, it's, it's so nice to hear you say that because I can relate to the, like, it's like, it's kind of unskilled emotions. Like you don't know yet what you're dealing with and you address this in your special too, which is really beautiful, beautiful moment. And don't get confused with beautiful moments in a stand-up special. They're allowed for our listeners. I love that. I love that it's, you know, not just all joke, joke, joke, joke.

It's plenty funny with a lot of, like, feeling in it and a lot of messaging that needs to get through. But I think, you know, you're talking about a cycle of anger, which, whichever, you know, so many people have and it can escalate to a level where, like, that's the same cycle as an abusive person, you know, when somebody's abusive physically. They go and they go and they get mad, mad, mad, mad, then they pop and then they're overwhelmed with guilt and they come back and they're apologizing. and they're so sorry, but it's, it's something that everyone can relate to. It's just different varying degrees of anger and how you express it. And then finding out, finding out from a therapist that your anger is really fear or sadness. You know, it's like the, it's like the jacket that your fear or sadness wears to protect itself.

100%. So this is something that you, because I always think of you as like, you're like a badass, strong person, right? Like, I've never thought of you as someone who was soft or anything. Is this something that you sort of figured out about yourself, too? Yeah, yeah. I had to go to, I had like a real break at, like, when I turned 40, I was like, I was so angry. I was so angry. And I, like, I was, I mean, it was like, Trump got elected. So I, it was like, I had some place to place my anger. I was like, that's why I hate this world. This is it, you know? But really, when I delved into therapy, I, I found out it was a lot about my childhood.

My brother died when I was really young. I had delayed grief. I had never spoken to anybody or anybody that could really unwrap that with me. So I learned very early on that my emotional outbursts, much like yours, were just me being scared or me being really sad and not feeling comfortable with expressing either of those emotions. So you find the emotion you are comfortable with. And for many of us, it's anger because then you're like, oh, Oh, okay. Well, this is still protective. I'm protecting myself. But it does feel like shit after you lose your shit. It does because anger is facing outward. You know, you're like instead of dealing with your own sadness or fear, you're like directing it outward. That's something. And I've noticed this a lot on social media.

Obviously, there's a lot wrong with the world. And there's a lot of like righteous anger that should be directed at it. But I see certain people that I'm like, okay, the target is right. But there's a lot more going on with you right now. Like, this isn't just about politics or whatever we're headed or whatever it is. Like, there's stuff inside you that you need to deal with because it's, and you've decided that it's really about this thing, but it's more about you. Yeah, I would say that's an astute observation as well because, you know, you go through like, I went through like a jaunt of therapy that was like two years intense. And then after that, I was like, okay, let me take a break and try to absorb all of this

and like apply it to my life. so I can soften my edges and be more of a whole person rather than just kind of coming across as like this bulldozer and strong. And then you, you know, that takes a bit of time, too, to adjust your personality because you're like, who am I now? Am I the same person? Or am I a different person? And you're kind of trying to take the best parts of your personality and bring them into the present. And then you're like, but how do I get rid of the bad parts, you know? And it's not, it's like it's just always a moving puzzle. Yes, that's very well put.

But I was reading this book recently and it was talking about intergenerational trauma, which was something we all suffer from. And I'm like, oh, fuck. Now we've got to deal with my fucking generation, all these families. Like we're in the Holocaust. I've got to go through this now. I'm like, intergenerational trauma. That's too much for us to deal with in one lifetime.

Yeah. That's not my shit. They should have dealt with it. That's the other thing you realize. It's like, you know, how much we get from therapy. and then realized, like, my parents have never had this once. They've never once had a therapy session. And it's like, it would be so much, we'd all be so much happier if you guys were able to do that.

Like my, my dad, who was absolutely wonderful, really in touch with his feelings. But there was like, like I mentioned this car accident that he was in. And he, for two weeks, he was just like really depressed because he got so scared. And I was like, dad, you should talk to somebody. He's like, nope, nope, nope. Nope. Then he just kind of muscled through it. And then a month later, he was like, okay, I'm fine now. So whatever the process was, he did, I don't know how deep he buried it or whatever, but it's like they just, it just feels like to a lot of people, therapies of defeat.

And it's really not. It's just what is required. We're really fucking complicated. And we're dealing with a lot. I know. And we're dealing with a lot. But there's been so many generations that have come before us that never dealt with anything. So the argument that we have to deal with it is kind of like, well, why? Maybe I could just go through my life and not deal with anything and be a miserable son of a bitch for the last, you know, 20 or 30. Like my dad, his last 15, 20, 30 years, he was just angry, angry, angry. And I'm like, oh, well, if he had had therapy and become like a self-actualized person, he probably would have been a lot different. But to what avail, right? Like, we sit here kind of like, you know, like naval gazing. People are like, oh, it's, you know, especially

L.A. As soon as you come to L.A., it doesn't matter what country or cultural background you're from, you end up in therapy. Yeah, it's too much. People here are too self-actualized. Some of these people need to start bottling shit up again. Do you and your wife go to couple therapy? We have. We don't anymore. We did. I think we started in the pandemic and we did it for about a year, started off every week and then every other week. And it was really, really remarkable. First of all, you know, Emily and I are both very smart people. And we pride ourselves on that.

And we were talking to this therapist and we were like, I think she's smarter than us. Like she really fucking knows us and it sucks. It sucks that she's so smart. But she gave us basically the tools. We realized, if you really want to get into it, that as couples, we were stuck in the same patterns from like the beginning of our relationship. And there's two sort of things.

One, we met, she was in the audience, I was on stage. So even though there's never been a hierarchy between us, there's never been like a dominant one. But because of that, she had a day job. I was following my dreams. That pattern became very established in our lives where like she basically makes sacrifices for me and we'd been living that for over 10 years. that thing where it wasn't equal. It was kind of one way. And the other thing is when she got sick, which we, you know, we, we made a movie called The Big Sick about it. And it's mentioned in the

special. When she got sick, that pattern that developed from that ultimately ended up being replayed over and over and over and over in our relationship. And we didn't realize that. We thought we were over it. But it wasn't until talking to the therapist that we were like, oh, all our, all of our problems go back to those two things. One, that she sort of sacrifices herself for my needs and goals. And two, I sort of feel like I need to control her so she won't get sick again. Oh, yeah. That's really interesting. And how do you address that? I think trust. I have to trust that she understands how to not make herself get sick. I was just very judgmental when she was like, you know, be out late at night or whatever where I was like, any of these things can trigger

another episode. How dare you do this to yourself? Like that was the thinking, that was the feeling. And it just got to. And she's been for years being like, you have to trust me. I know how to take care of myself over and over. But understanding that, like, oh, that's what this is. It's really, it's really about trust. That's what it was. And the other thing we did was, you know, as traditionally a very closed-off man, there was just a lot of times I would not admit things to her. Like if I'm starting a new job, I'm nervous.

Am I good enough? Are they going to find out? I suck whatever it is. I would keep that to myself. And I was just really anxious all the time. And then I started like really telling her like, hey, I'm starting this new job and I'm really scared.

And I thought saying it out loud would make that thing more real. It's the opposite. It makes it less, it takes its power away. And then we did this thing. where I think for a couple months, every day we had to share three vulnerable things about ourselves that we had not told the other person about. Big things, small things, whatever it is. And that really, really helped. And now the goal between us truly is 100% transparency. And that

could be, you know, I'm scared. Or it could be like, hey, I was at this place and this girl hit on me. Like all everything. We say everything. Wow. And how does that? So, I'm sure that makes their relationship even stronger. It's interesting what you just said about naming something and saying it out loud because, you know, there's a philosophy a lot of people have that whatever you focus is on gets bigger, right? Or whatever you focus on gets bigger. And actually even saying something out loud can make it bigger. But I also am of the same.

I subscribe to the same philosophy you do that when you do say it out loud, it also can dissipate. So it's interesting because, Catherine, this is. come up a lot on the show, you know, like whatever you focus on gets bigger. Like if you're obsessing over something, like Camille, I guess this applies to keeping it in. Because like Camel, if you're obsessing about being not good enough for a role, or are you going to fit in or is the director going to think you're, you know, good enough? If you're focusing and hyper-focusing on that, then that will get bigger. And you will kind of, it will impact your performance. But I guess by saying it out loud, there's a way that you can release that. Yeah. And you're inviting another

voice into the conversation because otherwise it's not silence it's you talking to yourself judge you know you know myself talk towards myself has traditionally been so negative like i heard someone else say this like if my friends talk to me this way i would not be friends with them anymore and so it's not silence it is a it's a dialogue it's a monologue just me saying all this shit to myself inviting another voice into it to counter that was really really helpful because she can bring perspective you know Yeah, yeah. So talk to me about your two other projects. You have a movie, Ella McKay, and you have a show, a TV show of Fallout. So Ella McKay is a movie directed by James L. Brooks, who's one of my favorite filmmakers. I mean, you know, Terms of Endearment, broadcast news, as good as good as a guest. Terms of Endearment is my favorite movie of all time. There is no way to get through that movie. It's like watching Hamnet. Have you seen Hamnet yet? Not yet. Oh, God. I mean, I just love when something makes me ball.

I was watching it. I'm up in my house in Whistler and I was watching it last night and I was just bawling on the sofa and my dog, Doug, kept coming over. But I love crying like that. It's such a release. It really is, yeah.

Terms of Endearment is the same. There is no way that hospital scene with Deborah Winger saying goodbye to her children that you can keep your shit together. And if you do, you're fucking evil. That part was she's telling, the son is angry and she's telling him like, I know you love me.

You're going to beat yourself up over this. Don't. you're being shitty to me right now, but I know you love me. That's such a beautiful. I know. I asked Jim, the director about it, and he's like, that scene is why I made the movie. So I couldn't match film that scene. Yeah.

It's beautiful. And so he directed it and it's got a wildcast. It's got Albert Brooks and Jamie Lee Curtis and Emma Mackey plays the lead and she's phenomenal. Jack Loudon, Woody Harrelson. I don't know if I mentioned Jamie Lee Curtis. Anyway, it's incredible cast. I have not seen the film yet, but that one was just like, you know, got to meet a bunch of my heroes and really, really, really exciting.

And then Fallout is a TV show based on a video game. Video game I love, and I love the first season of the show. I'm in season two for a few episodes. And the creator of that, one of the creators of the TV show was a guy who wrote for Silicon Valley. And before that, he wrote for Portlandia. And I just made this decision a few years ago where I was like, I'm just going to be shameless about it. this. I watched the first season. I texted him and I was like, hey, man, I love the show.

If you ever got anything, let me know. I just ask people directly that I like want to work with them. And then a couple weeks later, he just called me and he was like, hey, I got this part. He pitched it to me. He's like, do you want to do it? And I was like, yeah, yeah, I'll do it. And that's what that was. Really, really, really fun. Oh, wow. I like that. Yeah, I like asking people directly, too, for things. It's just cuts out the middle man. Yeah. And then you know, like, you know, if they don't want you in it, they won't put you in it and that's fine too. Do you feel like since you've been in this industry now

for a good amount of time, do you feel like your confidence has, you've gained a lot of confidence? Oh, what a good question. You know, I've never felt confident. I did this show years ago and one of the other guests was like, and this is going to sound like a negative question.

And it wasn't. She was like, how are you so confident? And it does sound negative. I was like, oh, I guess that's something I project. And at that time especially, I did not feel confident. I just sort of seemed confident, I guess, because so much of my life was like,

it sort of comes from wanting to be a man and not feeling like a man. Like, I changed my walk. You know, I changed the way I talk when I was a little kid. Like, I wanted to be more manly. So I think it sort of comes from that. I feel more confident now

in that in the last few years, I've learned that, like I was saying earlier, the limitations I've put on myself were just exactly that. I'd put them on myself, and I've grown more confident in my ability to learn things and to learn things from the people around me, you know. So I would say that's really, it's not confidence. It's a more I trust myself to be able to pick things up because I know I can work really hard. Like I've always had that since I was a little kid. I was like, I'm not the smartest. I'm not the best at sports.

I'm not the best looking. But I can work harder than anybody else. And so that's kind of of where my, I guess, confidence comes from. It's my ability to learn and my desire to learn and also just knowing that I can work really hard. And your traps. And they come from your traps. And we're going to take a break and we're going to come back and do some calls

with Kamal Nangiani. I'm investigative journalist Melissa Jeltson. My new podcast, What Happened in Nashville, tells the story of an IVF clinic's catastrophic collapse and the patients who banded together in the chaos that followed. We have some breaking news to tell you about. Tennessee's attorney general is suing a Nashville doctor. In April 2024, a fertility clinic in Nashville shut down overnight and trapped

behind locked doors were more than a thousand frozen embryos. I was terrified. Out of all of our journey, that was the worst moment ever. At that point, it didn't occur to me what fight was going to come to follow. But this story isn't just about a few families' futures. It's about whether that the promise of modern fertility care can be trusted at all. It doesn't matter how much I fight. Doesn't matter how much I cry over all of this. It doesn't matter how much justice we get. None of it's going to get me pregnant.

Listen to what happened in Nashville on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers? And what is this? How is that not a story we all know? What's this, where is that? Why is it wet? Boy, do we have a show for you. From smartless media,

campside media, and big money players comes crimeless. Join me, Josh Dean, investigative journalists. And me, Roy Scoval, comedian, as we celebrate the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals. We'll look into some of the silliest ways folks have broken

the laws. Honestly, it feels more like a high-level prank than a crime. Who catfish is a city. And meet some memorable anti-heroes. There are thousands of angry, horny monkeys. Clap if you think she's a witch. And it freaks you out.

He has x-ray vision. How could I not follow him? Honestly, I got to follow me. He can see right through me. Listen to Crimless on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. You know, we always say New Year, New Me, but real change starts on the inside.

It starts with giving your mind. in your spirit, the same attention you give your goals. Hey, everybody, it's Michelle Williams, host of checking in on the Black Effect Podcast Network. And on my podcast, we talk mental health, healing, growth, and everything you need to step into your next season, whole and empowered. New Year, Real You. Listen to Checking in with Michelle Williams from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

Dad had the strong belief that the devil was attacking us. Two brothers, one devout household, two radically different paths. Gabe Ortiz became one of the highest-ranking law enforcement officers in Texas. 32 years, total law enforcement experience. But his brother Larry, he stayed behind and built an entirely different legacy. He was the head of this gang, and nobody was going to tell him what to do. You're going to push that line for the cause. Took us under his wing and showed us the game.

as they call it. When Larry is murdered, Gabe is forced to confront the past he tried to leave behind and uncover secrets he never saw coming. My dad had a whole other life that we never knew about. Like, my mom started screaming my dad's name, and I just heard one gunshot. The Brothers Ortiz is a gripping true story about faith, family, and how two lives can drift so far apart and collide in the most devastating way. Listen to the Brothers Ortiz on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Who would you call if the unthinkable happened? I just fell and started screaming. If you lost someone you loved in the most horrific way. I said through you got 22 times. The police, right? But what if the person you're supposed to go to for help is the one you're the most afraid of?

This dude is the devil. He's a snake. He'll hurt you. I got you. I got you. I'm Nikki Richardson, and this is The Girlfriends, Untouchable. Detective Roger Goloopsky spent decades intimidating and sexually abusing black women across Kansas City, using his police badge to scare them into silence. This is the story of a detective who seemed above the law until we came together to take him down. I told Roger Golooski, I said, you're going to see my face till the day that you die. Listen to the Girlfriends Untouchable on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And we're back with Kamail Nanjiani. Let's go, Catherine. What do we got? Okay. Well, our first caller is Dylan, and he's 28. Dear Chelsea, I started dating this guy this year, and things have been going great. I drive an hour and a half multiple times a week just to see him. I never ask for gas money or anything, and I do it because I genuinely care about him.

He always tries his best to make me happy and constantly tells me he loves me. Until today, I felt the same. I brought my dog over to his house, which he said was totally fine, but when we arrived, his entire mood suddenly shifted. He got all quiet and weird, and suddenly he started telling me that my dog was no longer welcome in his house and that he's interrupting his space and peace. I immediately left. There are some cultural differences between us, but my dog is my best friend and has been with me through everything over the past five years. My dog is not going anywhere. Is this a deal breaker?

P.S. I'm a people pleaser learning boundaries. Thanks, Dylan. And Dylan, I think, has some updates for us, too. Hi, Dylan. This is Kamail Nanjiani, our special guest. Hey, nice to meet you guys. Thanks for having me. Sure.

What are your updates? So, okay, I found out he's been married for, like, I don't know. how long he never told me but he told me like eight months in and i was like why do you tell me now and he was like oh you seem like you're level headed and i i i didn't go off like i normally would i've tried to grow you know as i get older but i was like why wouldn't you tell me and he was like it's not a big deal like why are you mad what wait wait was he had he been married or is he's married now he's still married technically but it's for it's for like he says for like documentation but he kept it a secret so i'm like

If we're being honest, which we told each other, like, in the beginning, like, that's what we're going to do. I was like, that's a big thing that you should tell me in the beginning. You know what I mean? Yeah, the balls for him to be like, why are you upset that I'm married and didn't tell you? Yeah, and he acted, like, so nonchalant about it. And I was like, that's a huge thing to me. Because, like, I've been nothing but honest with him. Well, it's a huge thing to anyone.

Yes. Absolutely. Him being nonchalant about it is him, like, try to. to like dial down your reaction to that yes like oh i'm married i also you know have STDs just herpes like it's just like throwing something under the carpet i have a i have a follow-up two follow-ups yes you said cultural differences what do you mean by that he's Punjabi i was going to ask if he's indian or pakistani so there's a couple things there one at least pakistani we don't have dogs as pets

Like, that's very, very rare. And I grew up with dogs on the streets of Karachi, like rabbit dogs chasing me. So I was scared of dogs and did not like dogs until I moved here and then a few years ago. And now I love all animals and I love dogs as well. It took a while to reset that relationship. And so I think for specifically the dog part of the equation is just he needs to like understand and get over it. Because it's not coming from him. It is genuinely a cultural thing.

And that stuff takes some deprogramming. Another big thing is he works seven days a week, like 13 hours. And like I've told, I've asked like, can I get one day of your time? And he'll be like, yeah, I promise. And it never happens. So like he's so family focused, which I love. But he's convinced that like if he doesn't support his family, like something's bad going to happen. And in doing so, he's pushed me away.

Like, he's not willing to put in the effort. Like, I feel like I want him to understand me and everything, but he doesn't even understand or know himself. He hasn't had the time because it's so, like, survival focused. Well, let me ask you this. Is he married to a woman? Yes. And is it, like, a visa situation?

He, I believe so. He's been kind of quiet. He hasn't really filled me in a lot on it. But he's not, like, romantically with her. Yeah. So that's a thing that happens where people marry for. green cards and then it really is like a business relationship so I see yeah he should have still told you from the beginning because in his head this relationship is different from

the way the relationship is to the way it sounds is different than it is in his head in his head it truly isn't a big deal he should have told you I'm not apologizing for him but I I know this situation um yeah other thing is he so he has like a Punjabi Indian family have you ever met them No, but he's told his cousins that he has a girlfriend, so I'm the girlfriend in his mind. So see, that's the other thing is, sorry, Chelsea, I feel like I'm really monopolized. No, I fucking love it. It's like, first of all, I had no idea you had ESP, so this is perfect. He's like a palm reader.

Well, I just have been through this. Like for me, you know, my wife is white. My brother is getting married to a white person next weekend. And it took, it really took, I hid from my parents that I was dating her. And because culturally it's not okay. And I didn't come out until my wife got really sick like when we were first dating. And at that point, I was just too emotionally exhausted to not tell them about her. And that's what prompted it.

Otherwise, I don't know how long it would have taken. So I think that's the stuff. He may not be out to his family. And if he isn't out to his family, yeah. So, you know, there's like a weird thing here, again, not taking his side. Emily took years to figure out that she's never going to understand the cultural, the relationship that we have with our culture and the relationship we have with our parents and family because of our culture.

And this is something that I'm seeing my brother who's now about to get married. I'm seeing, I'm seeing his fiancee dealing with it where you're trying to sort of understand this stuff. And at some point, for Emily, it was like, you just have to accept that there's some stuff that you just do not have access to. Like, there are so many things that I can't be honest in front of my parents about. And she's like, well, it's going to be complete honesty. And I'm like, it's really not like that. Like, it really isn't.

It's kind of impossible. So for him coming out, you know, that's a personal journey. Like somebody, people have to decide when they're ready to do that. Of course, he's being a coward about it. But so it's, I would say it's sadly got nothing to do with you. It's got to do with his own situation. And it is a complicated situation. And of course, he should come out.

But there's a lot at play culturally. Like this is like heavy old shit, you know. Yeah. Like for me, I don't mind that like he's not out to his family. It's more like he keeps telling me all make time for you. And it's like the empty promises. Like I keep getting resentments for him and I don't want that. it's not good for him or me.

No, that's fear too. You know, it's how I was with Emily when we were first dating. I was scared of getting too close to her. We had this rule. Emily mentioned it to me two days ago. We were laying in bed in the morning and she was like, remember when you had this rule that we couldn't see each other two days in a row? And I was like, oh my God, why did you put up with this?

Seriously. Yeah, it was fear. It was fear. I was scared, like if I get too close to her that I have to tell my parents. and my parents accepted her and they're wonderful and they're very close but with some families from Pakistan India the threat of being excommunicated from the family

is very real like I know situations where they're like they just never talk to each other again yeah I have a lot of friends that are like Hindu and sick so like I get that but like I struggle with I feel like I do everything for him and I mean I do it because I want to but also there comes a point where you

you have to meet somebody in the middle and I feel like he cares about me but like he's also like his behavior is like I don't care how long have you guys been together a little over nine months that's a long time but he asked me out and in my mind like now I'm like why would you do that if you know you're not emotionally developed or ready I think he lacked that because I called him crying the other night and he was like I'm not going to talk to you if you're crying he's like He was like, I hang up on my mom when she's crying. I don't want to deal with that. Well, so I guess there's two things here.

One, a lot of this behavior has nothing to do with you. It feels like he has some personal growth to do and a lot of cultural stuff to deal with that can only be dealt with once he's achieved that personal growth. And two, I guess you decide whether that's something you want to hang around for. Yeah. Like, he's such a good person. but I don't know how much I can deal with more. Listen, Camel has shed a lot of light on this. A lot of light that I would not have been able to shed.

So I'm very grateful that he's here to help you today. So, Catherine, great for lining up these questions specific also for this episode where we have someone who is more well-versed in all of this cultural stuff that you have to deal with. So while you can have compassion for him and understand that his culture plays such a big role in his life, his relationship with his family, all of these things, even the relationship with dogs, like Camille telling us that is like, it really sheds a lot of light. But it doesn't really make you, you're not there just to wait until he starts to get his shit together.

There's a couple of things that are not really tolerable. One is like an unwilling to be open to trying to understand your relationship with your animal because that's, your dog is not going anywhere. And the other thing that is real, like really not acceptable is. for you to be upset and him not to be able to have the emotional bandwidth to deal with your upsetness. Like, you crying can't be a reason for him to hang the phone up. So I think, like, there are some boundaries that he's crossed that it might be helpful for you to write it down rather than having a conversation about and saying, these are the things that I'm not

okay with. It's been nine months. I understand culturally, even, you know, relay what you learned on this phone call, but also just say, like, these are kind of things that are non-negotiable for me. So if you can't make the effort, like, to actually figure out how we can take the next steps and you can be more open to my personality, to my lifestyle, to my culture, where we can kind of join our cultures together, then there's a lot of red flags here. And I understand where you come from, but you also need to do some work. Yeah, I need to get it together. Yeah. Well, not you, him. He needs to get it. Yeah, true. But you do need to get it together, too, because you're letting somebody be craven around you, like cowardly. And you're letting them cross into your emotional space. And it's not making you feel good. So you have to actually set a boundary. And if he can meet it, great. If he can meet it and say, okay, I'm ready to do the work. You know, this has been nine months. We've been, you know, shown that we have a lot to work towards and build on. Great. But if he can't, then that's your answer.

I don't know if he's willing to put in the work. And I think I know in my heart what I need to do. But it's that people pleasing part of me that wants to hold on to the littlest thing. But in doing so, I hurt myself. And it's not worth it. Yeah. You have to be, if you're not advocating for yourself, no one will. So you really have to prioritize yourself in every relationship that you have to be the best, to be the most honest, to be compassionate, to be empathetic. Like all of the things that you're bringing to the table, you need returned. I was going to say, I mean, you know, him not being able to talk to you when you were crying says about he's terrified of his own emotions, obviously. He doesn't know how to deal with that.

That can come from cultural stuff, but like Chelsea's saying, part of me when I became a grown up, one of the things, and this is going to sound, this is not applicable to your current situation. but I realized, like, just because I know, this is, again, not to your situation, just because I know why someone sucks doesn't mean they don't suck. So, for instance, I would see someone who was a dick and I'd be like, oh, it's because you're like scared of this other thing. It doesn't matter. You're still affecting me the same way and you got to deal with your shit. And I look at every relationship I have in my life, romantic friends, whatever, very

practically. I look at it and I think, am I putting in more than I'm getting out of this? And obviously there are times where your friends are going through the thing, you know, and there's an imbalance and that's totally fine. But overall, I've ended friendships because I'm like, it's been years and I've just put in more than I get out and I just have to end this friendship. And I think it's extra true for romantic situations. Yeah.

No, I completely agree with you there. I think just sticking to what I know and what I need to do is going to be something I need to focus on, especially like if I want to be happy and like have a good future. You know what I mean? Absolutely. You set the standards, like, for how people treat you. So I really would advise putting in an email, like, and really just a thoughtful explanation of where you are and what you expect. And if he can't deliver it, no problem.

But we're not going to continue in a romantic relationship. No, no resentments. It is what it is. You know what I mean? No harm, no foul. Yeah. All right, cool. And keep us posted.

Will you please let us know how that goes? Yeah, check in. Yes, I will do a follow up. Thank you guys. Okay. Thanks, Dylan. Bye. Nice meeting you.

Bye. Thank you guys. We're going to take a break and come back and wrap up. Maybe we have a quick one, Catherine, to wrap up? Yes. Okay, great. Okay, so we'll take a break and we'll be right back with Kumayl Nangiani. I'm investigative journalist Melissa Jeltsin. My new podcast, What Happened in Nashville, tells the story of an IVF clinic's catastrophic collapse

and the patients who banded together in the chaos that followed. We have some breaking news to tell you about. Tennessee's Attorney General is suing a Nashville doctor. In April 2024, a fertility clinic in Nashville shut down overnight and trapped behind locked doors were more than a thousand frozen embryos. I was terrified. Out of all of our journey, that was the worst moment ever. At that point, it didn't occur to me what fight was going to come to follow. But this story isn't just about a few families' futures.

It's about whether the promise of modern fertility care can be trusted at all. It doesn't matter how much I fight, doesn't matter how much I cry over all of this. It doesn't matter how much justice we get. None of it's going to get me pregnant. Listen to what happened in Nashville on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers? And what is this? How is that not a story we all know?

What's this? Where is that? Why is it wet? Boy, do we have a show for you. From Smartless Media, Campside Media, and Big Money Players, comes Crimeless. Join me, Josh Dean, investigative journalists. And me, Roy Scoval, comedian, as we celebrate the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals. We'll look into some of the silliest ways folks have broken the laws.

Honestly, it feels more like a high-level prank than a crime. Who catfishes a city? And meets some memorable anti-heroes. There are thousands of angry, horny monkeys. Clap if you think she's a witch. And it freaks you out. He has x-rayed vision. How could I not follow him?

Honestly, I got to follow me. He can see right through me. Listen to Crimless on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. You know, we always say New Year, New Me, but real change starts on the inside. It starts with giving your mind and your spirit the same attention you give your goals. Hey, everybody, it's Michelle Williams, host of Checking In on the Black Effect Podcast Network. And on my podcast, we talk mental health, healing, growth, and everything you need to step into your next season, whole and empowered. New Year, Real You.

Listen to Checking in with Michelle Williams from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Dad had the strong belief that the devil was attacking us. Two brothers, one devout household, two radically different paths. Gabe Ortiz became one of the highest-ranking law enforcement officers in Texas. 32 years, total law enforcement experience. But his brother Larry, he stayed behind and built an entirely different legacy. He was the head of this gang, and nobody was going to tell him what to do. You're going to push that line for the calls.

Took us under his wing and showed us the game. as they call it. When Larry is murdered, Gabe is forced to confront the past he tried to leave behind and uncover secrets he never saw coming. My dad had a whole other life that we never knew about. Like my mom started screaming my dad's name and I just heard one gunshot. The Brothers Ortiz is a gripping true story about faith, family, and how two lives can drift so far apart and collide in the most devastating way.

Listen to the Brothers Ortiz on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Who would you call if the unthinkable happened? I just fell and started screaming. If you lost someone you loved in the most horrific way. I said through you got 22 times. The police, right? But what if the person you're supposed to go to for help

is the one you're the most afraid of? This dude is the devil. He's a snake. He'll hurt you. I love you. I got you. I'm Nikki Richardson, and this is The Girlfriends, Untouchable. Detective Roger Galoopsky spent decades intimidating and sexually abusing black women across Kansas City, using his police badge to scare them into silence. This is the story of a detective who seemed above the law until we came together to take him down.

I told Roger Galoopsky, I said, you're going to see my face till the day that you die. Listen to the Girlfriends Untouchable on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And we're back with Camille. Camel, that was very insightful. So first of all, thanks for fucking bringing it. Because if you hadn't been here today, I would have been like, yeah, I would have had no compassion for that other guy. Well, I just understand the situation. However, what you said is very right, he's got to figure out what's right for himself,

whether dealing with all this like cultural baggage, whatever it is. It's all real. It's there for a reason. However, if this person's not meeting you, they're not meeting you, you know. It is what it is. Right, right. Okay, Catherine, what do we have to close out? All right.

Well, I've got a question about tipping. So Regina says, I try to be a good tipper, tipping at least, but usually over 20%. My dad, on the other hand. is a horribly embarrassing tipper. Anytime we go out to eat together, I over-tip on my bill and hide money under my plate to make up for what he shorts them.

A few weeks ago at a family dinner, tipping was brought up, and I explained that you should tip well, especially if it's a slower day for the restaurant because of how little wage staff are paid by the hour. Minimum wage where we live is $2.15 per hour. He couldn't believe it was so low. He and his girlfriend Googled it and were blown away.

She even said, wow, that's not much at all. Fast forward at dinner with him and his girlfriend the following week at a restaurant that I visit weekly, he offered to buy my meal. It was super sweet of him and I was really thankful. He's known to be really frugal in general, so him offering to buy mine was a pretty big deal. Anyway, after receiving fantastic service, when it came time to tip, he looked at his girlfriend and said, I didn't bring cash. Do you have tip money? She pulled a thick stack of cash from her purse and handed him a $5 bill. Our bill was $83. Not only did he tip $5 on an $83 bill, he called for the waiter and handed him his tip to ensure he got it.

I was so embarrassed, so much so that when they were standing up to gather their things to leave, thinking they were distracted, I turned to the waiter and said, my dad's a horrible tipper. I don't have cash on me, but I'll bring some back for you. Well, I turned around and my dad and his girlfriend were looking at me with a look of disbelief. They clearly had heard what I said. Good. I could have crawled under the table. I came back later that day and gave the waiter a 20. Them catching me talking to the waiter has been weighing on me hard and I feel awful. He was being nice by buying my dinner. We had a great time until the check came, but he knows how I feel about tipping. I eat at this restaurant a lot. I know the waiter well and I was so

embarrassed. Am I the asshole for telling the waiter I'd bring him more money and adding tip money behind my dad's back? I know I should have waited until we left to avoid being caught and we'll do that going forward, but really, should I let it go and move on or should I tuck my tail and apologize for lying to his face. P.S., my dad is not hurting for money. It's just who he is, Regina. No, Regina, you're totally in the right. In fact, I was going to say, make sure you humiliate him every time you go out to dinner and say, I'm so sorry about my father's tip. Here's an extra $20 to make up for it. My father once came into a restaurant that I was waiting tables in and didn't leave me a tip. Like, that's how Panearius my own father was. And, wait,

I have an even better story. A few months ago, I was just. some shows in the Hamptons, in West Hampton. And we, like, my crew and I went out before, right? I had a bunch of friends there. And my assistant, one of my assistants was with me. And he always pays, right? I get a DM. We go out to this beautiful dinner. They wrote, they sent us all this free food. They're so happy we're there. Couldn't it have been more pleasant. I get home that night and I'm going through my DMs on Instagram. And the server goes, was something wrong with the service? You only left 15%. And I was like, what? no, all I do is talk about tipping and I've been a waitress. I know it. And I run downstairs

to car. We're in this house. I run downstairs. I'm like, Carlos, did you only tip 15% at that fucking restaurant? And he's like, what? What? I'm like, this guy just DM me. Look. And he's like, oh my God, oh my God. I just tried to add it up quickly in my head. I go, you can never tip 15%. It's got to be, especially from someone who could afford it, 25%. 25% if you have money. understand a lot of people don't have excess cash. I get that. But also you have to understand waitresses, servers work on tips. So like, he went back. He had to go back with an envelope with more cash the next day, walk into the restaurant and be like, I'm so sorry. I'm with Chelsea handler. She got your DM. We're so sorry we didn't leave the right tip. But good for him for

reaching out too. Post goes to me. He goes, I can't believe that guy DMs you. I go, I can't. I want him to, I want people to tell me if I'm misbehaving. Absolutely. Don't you agree, Camel? It's better that he DM you and didn't tell his friends like Chelsea Handler's a bad tipper. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is way better. I could not agree with you more. Fuck that dad. Because I was going to be like maybe it's a financial situation. If he can afford it, you have to tip well. It's a hard job. They're bringing you your food. It's a hard job. And I've worked in food service. And yeah, especially for us, you know, people know we can afford it. We really have to, but you have to tip at least 20% because they don't make a living wage

otherwise. Right, right. 20% is like the minimum. And you also are paying taxes. You have to understand servers are paying taxes. If you leave a tip on a credit card, they're paying taxes on the amount that you tip them. So it's always better to leave cash, but keep that in mind. Like they're not just getting that tip scot-free.

They have to pay taxes on that. every state. So it varies from state to state, and that changes all the time. But just keep that in mind when you are going out to eat. And if you can't afford to tip, order some fucking takeout then, you know, and then you can tip 10% or 15%. Yeah. And I think one way around this, and maybe it will sort of like jar something loose for your dad is just to be like, even if you're covering your own meal, be like, let me get tip. I got a tip. Absolutely. You know. To our person that wrote in, you should not be apologizing to your father for his bad tipping. He just learned how much they make an hour, which is less than $3.

And he still wanted to tip $5 on an $83 bill. No, why are you putting your tail between your legs? His tail should be between his legs. I would encourage you every time you go out to dinner with your father to take out of $20 and go, Dad, you're a terrible tipper. I'm sorry. Like, it's embarrassing. That's the truth.

When I go out with friends and they're like, I want to cover it, I know which friends. I'm like, all right, I'm going to like have to hide and put some money down here. it is embarrassing. Tip is not extra. Tip is part of what you owe the restaurant. Exactly. Exactly. Okay.

Well, Camel, you've been an absolute pleasure. I love talking to you. You're so great. Your stand-up special is so fucking funny. I hope you win a Golden Globe. It's called Night Thoughts, you guys. You can watch it on Hulu.

You can watch it on Disney Hulu, either one. And then he has a show. Did I say, I said, I think you corrected me. Fall Out. You were right. Yeah, fallout, but then Ella McKay? Correct. Mackay.

You said Mackay, but I think it's McKay. I think you're right. I think so, too. I think so, too. Okay, Camel, have a wonderful, wonderful day, and please extend my good wishes to your wife, too. You guys are a cute, cute couple. I will. Thank you.

This was such a joy. Oh, love it. Okay. Have a great day. Thanks, Camel. The word of the week is predilection. Noun. An established preference for something. Your mother-in-law has a predilection for sticking her nose where it doesn't belong.

Predilection. I just announced all my tour dates. It's called the High and Mighty Tour. I will be touring from February through June. So go get your tickets now. If you want good seats and you want to come see me perform, I will be on the high and mighty tour. Do you want advice from Chelsea? Write into Dear Chelsea Podcast at gmail.com.

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