Dear Chelsea - Struggle Meals with David Oyelowo

Episode Date: April 9, 2026

Actor and Producer David Oyelowo joins Chelsea to talk about mispronouncing Oprah’s name, preparing for a character who suffered through solitary confinement in his new movie NEWBORN, and the kindness of good friends. Then: A sheltered 30-something is ready to date, but doesn’t know the rules.  And a new mom prepares to leave her toxic marriage.  * Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail] * Executive Producer Catherine Law Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert * * * The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I'm Miles Turner. And I'm Brianna Stewart. And our podcast, Game Recognized Game, has never been done before. Two active players giving you a real look at our lives and what we actually think, on and off the court. Nothing's off limits. We talk tanking. I might get in trouble for this answer, but I think it's, like, definitely happening in the WBA. We talk about our mistakes, too.

They pulled me to the side and was like, hey, man, we got a call last night, man, you can't be rolling around the city like this tonight before games. Check out Game Recognized game with Stoian Miles on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How much you wait, Wanda? Right now, about 1.30. I'm at 183. We should race. No, I want to leave here with my original hips.

On the podcast, the matchup with Lalia, I pair prominent female athletes with unexpected guests. On a recent episode, I sat down with undisputed boxing champ, Clarissa Shields and comedian Wanda Sykes to talk about Wanda's new movie Undercard The Art of Trash Talk and what it really means to be ladylike. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search the matchup with Alia and listen

now. Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports Network. This is Julian Edelman, host of Games with Names. On our latest episode, we got comedian Blake Anderson from Workaholics and The Hilarious This is Important Podcast. Let's go. We did beat him in improv.

You had an improv against the team? Yes. We would pull up their schools would be there with signs for us. It's competition. What you would win is a bottle of gold slager. James Fester threw it out of a van because he didn't want us drinking it. For more games with names, visit the IHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast. Okay, for the High and Mighty Tour, people, we are rocking and rolling. These are the shows we have coming up. Chicago, April 10th, I start Chicago. Then I have Indianapolis on the 11th and then Louisville, Kentucky on April 12th. April 16th is Albuquerque.

April 17th is Mesa, Arizona. April 23rd is Kansas City, Missouri. April 24th is St. Louis, Missouri. April 25th is Minneapolis. April 30th, Nashville. May 1st, Charlotte, North Carolina. May 2nd is Durham, North Carolina. May 6th, in Los Angeles at the Sabon Theater for Netflix is a joke.

April 15th, I will be in Saratoga. April 16th, Monterey. April 17th, Modesto. I will be in Port Chester. on June 4th, June 5th, I will be in Boston, Massachusetts. June 12th, I will be in Portland, Oregon. And June 13th, I will be in Seattle, Washington. June 27th is going to be Hyannis, Massachusetts.

August 6th is Red Bank, New Jersey. August 7th, I'm coming home to Montclair, New Jersey. August 15th is Calgary, Alberta, Canada. September 18th, Santa Barbara. September 19th, San Diego. September 25th, I will be at the beacon in New York City. September 26th, I will be in Philadelphia, September 27th, New Haven, Connecticut, October 2nd, Atlanta, Georgia, October 3rd, Baltimore, Maryland, October 4th, Saginaw, Michigan, October 9th, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, October 10th, Toronto, Canada. October 16th, I'm coming to Boise, Idaho, October 17th, Spokane, Washington, November 7th, I will be in San Francisco, and November 13th, Salt Lake City,

November 20th, Austin, November 21st, Houston, Texas, November 22nd, Irving, Texas. December 5th, I am adding a second show in Denver for those of you who couldn't get tickets to the first one. And on December 6th, I will be coming to Vancouver, Canada. Okay, those are all my dates for the high and mighty door. Go to Chelseahandler.com for tickets. Hi, Catherine. Hi, Chelsea. How are you? I'm coming to you from my brand new house.

You know what? Your assistant said that you are loving it. And I was like, she's loving it? Who said that? Who said that? Karen. I am. I am.

I am so happy about that. It's actually very quite, it's quite peaceful considering all of the hullabaloo. I guess maybe I just needed to get out my last vomit bath about it. And, but it's really beautiful. I mean, it's very. It is gorgeous. Serene and beautiful. And I spent the last two days because I've been on tour, as you know, I spent the last two days sleeping.

I slept 13 hours, two nights in a row with the help of a little Xanax and edible. I was just, I texted you at, what, 640 yesterday? And I was like, I know she's gone. She's not responding. Yeah. I was like, wait, I was done with my day yesterday at 2.30. And I was like, how long do I have to wait before I take my Xanax? I watched the new season of, I watched the new season of Euphoria.

I watched three episodes of that. Amazing. And I was like, wow, it's fucking awesome. Good. And, yeah, I'm just, I'm just. I was just having a great time. I'm having a great time recuperating. I love bet. I love bed. I just can't get enough. Also the feeling when you wake up, like I wake up to pee at around midnight. And I'm like, I look at the clock and I'm like, oh, God, this is amazing. I have like six more hours to go. That is the best feeling when you're like, it's not almost on. Like I have so much more time.

No. And I have shows this weekend. There are tickets still have. available for the Indianapolis show on Saturday. I'm at the Marat Theater. And then on Sunday, I'm in Louisville, Kentucky at the Palace Theater. And there are tickets still available for that, too. So Friday, I'm in Chicago at the Chicago Theater. That's sold out, thankfully. And I've got people coming to see you in Chicago, you know. My sister-in-law is going to be there, my girlfriend's. Yeah. And they're all of your Tulsi fans. So. Oh, and I'm also doing an Owlsbrough event, people, on Thursday afternoon in Chicago. So look that up for Owlsbrough for my vodka lemonade. I'm going to be in person. In store in person.

Chelsea, where are you playing this weekend? Is it the Chicago Theater? Chicago Theater, yeah. Nice. Do you know that the first time I asked Catherine out was after a show there? I was playing and there was an after party and I asked her out for the first time there. So it's a really special place to us. That's true.

It was the I.O. 25th anniversary that like will go down in infamy. Like every famous person who went through I.O. or Improv Olympic like came back to the city and like none of the audio worked at this 5,000. seat theater. So people just like left and Brad was playing a show. I was seeing a show and then went to the other. Oh, that's funny. That's funny. Yeah. Well, I'll be celebrating your love while I'm there, you guys. Thank you, Chelsea. Think of us. Oh, and also for those of you in Chicago, I'll be at, it's called the Juul Osco is the liquor store that I will be at for the event from 1.30 to 3 p.m. on April 10th. They call it the Jules. Brandt I also spent a lot of real quality time at Julesco. That's It's like the Albertsons of Illinois.

Okay, great. Well, I'm glad I'm getting to hit that spot. Enjoy. Enjoy. Enjoy. Enjoy. Enjoy. Enjoy.

Well, I am thrilled for our guest today. He is, I think he's one of our great actors of our time. Yeah, he's actually really, yeah, he's definitely one of the great actors of our time. And our interview with him was really, I really loved speaking with him. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And he gave great advice. So I always love when a straight man.

could do that. He gave really great and thoughtful advice. Like, really great. Yeah, it's very nice when people are thoughtful. Our guest today is an actor and an executive producer of the new film, Newborn. Please welcome David O Yellow O. Hi, David. Hello. Hello. So nice to see you. Nice to see you too again. I don't know if you remember when at the Critics Choice. I think that's last time I saw you. Yeah. Yeah, backstage. That was right. Yeah. Yeah, that was like two years ago. That's right. That's right. Yeah. David, happy birthday, first of all. Thank you. Thank you. It was yesterday. I had an amazing time. What did you do to celebrate?

So I've been shooting a show in the Canary Islands and I've been there since January. I love my home. I love my kids. I love my wife and I've missed them all terribly. My wife and I actually have a two-week rule. We're never apart for more than two weeks. So she's been two-ing and throwing from the Canary Islands. But I haven't seen my kids. for a while. So just being here to celebrate with them. And then we had this extraordinary circumstance whereby my eldest son got engaged three days ago. Wow. And this happened while I was on the plane from Tenerife to L.A. My wife sent me a text saying she said yes. She sends me the video. I couldn't download it on the plane. It was infuriating. Oh, I know that feeling. I know. I know. So,

the glow of all of that was in the party yesterday. It was a phenomenal time. Oh, that's so exciting. Congratulations on all fronts. I know. It's really great. I'm very happy. And having a family that likes to spend time with their parents also. Congratulations on that. I know. Yeah, it's actually something happened with our family. We were always close, but during the pandemic, even though that was such a devastating time for so many people. For us, we just kind of coalesced as a family. We just, you know, everyone's going to school and I'm going off doing jobs and my wife and I run a company. And we had this year and a half, two years where we just kind of went together, you know, in this, in this really amazing way that hasn't abated. And so, yeah, we really love each other's company. That's so sweet. And you and your wife have been together

since you were teenagers? Correct. We met when we were 17 and 18 doing youth theater, and we've been, we've known each other. We worked out for nearly 32 years now. We've been married for 27. 27 years, 32 years together, four children. Yeah.

Nice. This is all nice. Yes, yes. Yeah, I'm very blessed. And she's also a member of Mensa, which I think is worth mentioning. Can we just take a moment to my wife some props on that? Yeah, so she very late diagnosis for ADHD and went in for the testing for it.

And the person doing the testing was like, by the way, this testing we're doing on you signifies very high IQ. Have you ever tested that side? And she went, no. and so incredibly a byproduct of what could be perceived as some kind of deficiency in terms of ADHD is what illustrated that she has this off the charts IQ. I love that.

First of all, we were just talking. Me and my friend were talking two nights ago about getting tested because we couldn't decide which disorder we had, ADD or ADHD. I believe I just have ADD. I don't have the hyperactive part, but he was saying that I do. Anyway, this is a great incentive. for everybody listening since we all have some form of this, because you could find out that you're a member of Mensa.

Exactly, exactly. Such great bragging rights, by the way. That would be a real feather in my cap, quite frankly. So speaking of your wife, she's also a producer on this movie? No, so we run a production company together, and so our production company produced this. She's not a producer on it, but she is a producer, and we've produced stuff together.

In fact, this is how much love is in the air, Chelsea. So upstairs, this is my office building, we are preparing for my assistant who fell in love with our art director on a show that my wife and I produced called Bass Reeves, and I'm officiating their wedding on Saturday. Oh, my God. You're just spreading it up around town like it's nobody's business. Watch out. I know. I know. There's not enough of it in the world.

So I feel like when you find it, you got to talk about it. That's true. We got to double down on all sorts of love and all kindness, especially to strangers, everybody listening. Be kind to strangers. People need love right now. I couldn't agree more. Let's talk about your movie, which is called Newborn. It's out now in AMC theaters. So this is a story about a man who was in solitary confinement for seven years. And I know you're a method. You're a method guy. Is that accurate? Well, I would say whatever the part

requires, I feel like I'm in service of. So, you know, I definitely would not apply what I guess people call the method to, you know, a comedy or something that doesn't require that level of, as I say, giving yourself over to something. Sometimes you're playing something that's closer to yourself. Sometimes it's very far from yourself. And so, yes, to your point, in playing Chris newborn, a guy who had endured seven years of solitary confinement, which is something I simply cannot personally get my head around, given my own very blessed circumstances and experience. I read a lot about it, but you know, I read a book called Solitary by a guy called Albert Woodfox, who had endured, believe it or not, over 40 years of solitary confinement for something he didn't,

a crime he didn't commit. But I also shadowed a guy called Richard Rosario, who was wrongfully convicted of a crime. He served 20 of the 25 years. He was convinced. He was convicted. He was for seven of those were in solitary. And in talking to him, I started to get a sense of what the role requires. And so, yes, to a certain extent, I had to sort of give myself over to that in order to come close to telling the truth of that awful situation. So what did you learn from these guys? I mean, fill us in.

Like, how does someone move on from, I mean, as you can see in the movie, which is really beautiful and Denzel Washington's daughters in the movie who is absolutely fantastic. She's gorgeous, a gorgeous actor, and you guys are great together. And as you depict in the movie, you could see, what did you pick up from them in like researching this role that really helped inform you that you were maybe surprised to learn? So many things. I mean, there are so many things that we don't know that we should know. One of them being that there are 80,000 people.

in solitary confinement today in America, men, women, and children. So it is widespread as a practice. You know, in talking to Richard and in studying up on this, after 13 days, studies have shown you're never the same again. There is a psychic break that happens that you will just never fully recover from. Because it's 23 hours a day, every day. Florescent lights are on all the time. Almost everyone in those wings are dealing with mental illness, so they're screaming and, you know, it's just sensory overload with complete isolation.

So let alone seven years of that. And what I learned from Richard specifically outside of generally what happens to people is that our connection to humanity is literally what defines us as human. So it is the ultimate form of dehumanization to not have connection with other human beings. And the only thing that kept him remotely sane was knowing his wife and two kids were out there. They loved him. And that was the only thing that gave him any kind of modicum of hope. If you don't have something to tether yourself to, it is being alive but dead, so to speak. And, you know, he has now been free for 10 years.

He's still dealing with, of course, the effects of it. But he attributes his ability to still function as a human being to the love that he knew was out there for him from his family. Yeah. Was it hard for you to get out of that character after filming such a demanding kind of mentally anguish-filled movie? It was very intense for me because on the first day of shooting, unfortunately, my dad, who had been dealing with stage four colon cancer, passed away on the morning of our first day of shooting. And so weirdly, even though that was definitely not what you would want, it instantaneously put me in this place of intense retrospection, intense focus just to get through it. combined with, you know, the great scripts that Nate Parker had written and was directing.

But honestly, it was about trying to be in service of Richard and others who I had spoken to who had dealt with this. I felt a real burden of responsibility. And so, you know, we just did everything we could to tell the truth. I mean, the good thing is, I'm a father, I am a husband. I have brothers, and Chris Newborn has a brother in this film, which is also a key relationship for him. So I could identify with all of those things. Obviously, the gap in my knowledge was the extreme nature of dealing with solitary confinement. Yeah.

I mean, it makes you really think about why that's necessary in a prison system. Like putting someone in a room alone without fluorescent lighting is bad. Like, why add all of these things? that turn a person crazier than they are. It makes, it's just, everything is so backwards. Speaking of your father, I'm really sorry to hear that. I know that I read that your father passed away on the first day of shooting. Your father had some, I know a lot of people have trouble pronouncing your last name,

or a yellow-o. Yes. Got it. Wow. Yeah. That was impressive. First time. Well, you've literally disproved.

I know. I got it. That means anybody can get it. Yes, exactly. Moving on. Your dad, but your dad had problem. pronouncing Oprah's name. He couldn't get that right. Literally, it's, it's so hypocritical. He would get so upset about the mispronunciation of our name. And then he would always call it,

Opera Winifera. Opera Winifred. But then he met her and like to her face, opera. I was like, oh my lord. Well, you can just attribute that to a Nigerian accent, can't you? I guess so, but, you know, like literally one of the most famous people on the planet. Let's be clear that he had heard it enough to know that it is not opera. So it slightly discounts his annoyance, our name being mispronounced. I-Heart Radio wants to send you and a friend to experience Luke Coles. When the sky is blue. A thousand dollars cash, backstage passes, and his new album on final to get you ready for the show.

flights and two nights from trip central.ca. The smarter way to book travel. Download the free Iheart radio app. Listen to Pure Country for 10 minutes. And win your way to Montreal to see Luke Combs. Pretty you listen is another chance to win. The new album, The Way I Am, is available now. 2%.

That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness fitness and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more, to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry.

We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress. Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on. on the other side, a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's T-W-O-Persent on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, everyone.

I'm Cheryl Stray, author of Wild and Tiny Beautiful Things. I'm excited to share that I have a new podcast called Mind Over Mountain. In each episode, I interview athletes, adventurers, and adrenaline seekers to disqualify. to discuss the inner landscapes and life experiences that informed and inspired their extraordinary feats. I also bring a bit of advice into the mix so we too can better understand how to face our own seemingly insurmountable challenges.

Do you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to pull out what you already have inside. We're coming into this world, fighting for our lives. All I'm going to do is pull out what you already got inside. We're there to support and celebrate each other. And that's not like your story versus my story. you're going to walk up and over that dang mountain.

You're not just going to put your mind over it. Yep, yep, exactly. And if I can't walk up and over it, I'm going to go through it. Listen to Mind Over Mountain every Thursday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, Ernest, what's up? Look, money is something we all deal with, but financial literacy is what helps turn income into real wealth.

On each episode of the podcast, Earn Your Leisure, we break down the conversations you need to understand money, investing, and entrepreneurship. From stocks and real estate to credit, business, and generational wealth, we translate complex financial topics into real conversations everyone can understand. Because the truth is, most people will never taught how money really works. But once you understand the system, you can start to build within it. That means ownership, smarter investing, and creating opportunities not just for yourself,

but for the next generation. If you want to learn how to build wealth, understand the markets, and think like an owner. Earn your leisure is the podcast for you. Listen to Earn Your Leisure on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I know that Oprah is like a very close friend to you and you kind of used her as a gut check at different times in your career. Can you talk about that? Yeah, we have a very special relationship.

I met her doing a film called The Butler, which Lee Daniels directed. And we played Mother and Son in that film. And that dynamic just never quite changed. Something truly beautiful happened. Even before we started shooting, we were at a party at Lee Daniels' house. We shot it in New Orleans, and he had rented a house,

and we were having this party. And I was sort of stood in the corner. I was a younger actor then, still fairly new to Hollywood. My wife and I had moved here from the UK. And in all honesty, I felt quite a bit of isolation There were other, to be perfectly frank,

there were other black actors who I felt there was resistance to me. There was this sort of, I don't know, this brick coming over here, taking our jobs kind of vibe that I was getting. And I had gone into this role that was a significant one. And in all honesty, I was kind of trepidious about, is this going to continue to exacerbate this feeling of isolation I have from a community that I really want to be a part of and all that kind of stuff. So slightly stood in the corner and Oprah noticed this, came over to me and said,

are you okay? I said, yeah, you know, I'm just dealing with a little bit of anxiety about these things. And of course, she famously has the ability to get the truth of your soul out of you instantaneously. And so I started talking to her about this. And then she was just so open and honest about having had the same sense. are coming up as a black journalist in the South. And at that time, feeling the same thing from other black women, to be perfectly frank. And that feeling of isolation, both from her own community, but also from an industry that told her she was too fat, she was too ugly, she was too black to, you know, be anything in that world.

and then she happened to meet to Deportier, who expressed also having the same thing, having come over from the Caribbean and was starting to forge a path, had, back in the day, forged a path in Hollywood and feeling the same sense of isolation. You know, people are threatened by success, especially when you're from a marginalized community and you feel like the pie that you want a slice of is very small. And so there's this sort of crabs in a barrel thing that can happen. And he had said to her, Sydney Poitiers, says, I know exactly what you're dealing with, and I'm going to walk you through it. And he became her mental. And this was like the first major interaction I had had with Oprah. And she said, what he did for me, I'm going to do for you. And that was, I don't know, 15 years ago now. And she is, that has just never abated. Wow, that's amazing.

That's a really beautiful story. Thank you for sharing that. Thank you. Have there been times in your career where you've gone to her at other times for advice when you're thinking about choosing projects or just navigating Hollywood after that? All the time, all the time, because one of the things she said to me is basically, she didn't say it like this, but she basically was saying you're only allowed to make new mistakes, not old ones.

I'll tell you the old ones. I'll guide you through the potholes that I stay. in so that you don't have to, basically, which is as extraordinary as an offering as you can make to someone as I think is possible. And so, yeah, whether it's financial literacy, which I had, I was very low in because my parents spent every day sort of scrabbling to put the pennies together. And, you know, they were amazing parents, but really bad business people, you know, just constantly on the precipice of bankruptcy and bailiffs at the door.

And, you know, just never could find enough financial oxygen to not be stressed by finances. And so, you know, I just, that was the only example I had. So I associated being a father, being a husband, being a working man with that. And, you know, one of the things she taught me is do everything you can to get out of debt as quickly as you can. Focus on that fastidiously because the difference between well, people and people who are not is that they have somehow managed to get to the point whereby they can look down on their issues and have the space to strategize. When you are down on the ground, straveling to make ends meet, that's when you just inevitably make financial mistakes,

you're caught in the rat race, you're caught in all of the things that keep you in financial debt. So do everything. And obviously, it's not an easy thing to do. But if she said she was just very conscious early on, how do I get out of debt? And I took her out her word and practiced it. And by golly, she was right. You guys moved over from the UK. How do you, why? Why did you move over from the UK? A myriad of reasons. The primary one being when I was coming up, you know, I mentioned Sydney Poitie, obviously earlier. That was my hero. Danza, Washington was my hero. But we literally had no equivalence of those in the UK with me growing up. There were no black actors I could look at and go, that's my North Star. You know, I truly believe you cannot be what you cannot see. And I didn't

see anything I could aspire to. And it's also why my parents were very resistant to the idea of me being in the arts, being an actor, because I think for them is like, you know, there's no evidence to us that the hard work we're putting in as immigrants here in the the UK is good that's going to be a better life for you. And so even though I defied my parents and I went to drama school and I did all the things that continued to be the case. And so I got a few roles that got me a bit of notoriety. I did the last king of Scotland with Forrest Whitaker. I did a film of as you like here with Kenneth Branagh. I had done a show called it was called Spooks in the UK. It's called MI5 here. there were things that sort of popped a little bit in the state,

so it just gave me just enough juice to turn up here and people had seen things I'd done. And then I just, even though it hadn't happened yet, I knew my career was going to plateau. I came up with actors like Tom Hardy and Benedict Cumberbatch and James McAvoy and those were my peers. We were all doing theatre in the UK. We were all working together.

But we love period dramas in the UK, and that tends to be the thing that will launch an actor into the American consciousness. So whether it be atonement for James McAvoy or its pride and prejudice for Matthew McFadion or imitation game for Benedict Cumberbatch, I just knew that wouldn't happen for me unless I planted myself somewhere else. And so we started the process of moving, and we did move in 2007. So we've lived here for 19 years now. And it proved to be true within about two months of landing in L.A. This script called Selma landed on my doormat. The film didn't get made for another seven years after that,

but at least it validated the fact that, oh, this is the kind of thing that I just knew wouldn't happen in the UK and was possible here. Yeah. So the transition from the UK to America, things started to open up for you career-wise, and that was your main motivation for moving over here. How was it, like, culturally for you to come over here from the UK? Oh, my goodness.

The tricky thing and the thing that no one really warns you about moving from England, an English-speaking country, obviously, to America, another English-speaking country, is the sheer amount of cultural differences. Like, my wife and I never had credit cards in the UK. We couldn't do anything without a credit card when we moved here. It was just like, what's your credit score? What's your credit, credit, credit, credit, credit.

You know, we never said that word as often as we did when we first moved here in 2007. And so that was something that we were like, we're barely human beings without credit, you know, and things like that. And so bank accounts and all that kind of stuff. The schooling system was so different for our kids. You know, our kids were five and two when we were. moved and, you know, my wife actually chose to homeschool our kids and ended up doing it for five years because our kids just couldn't adjust to the American schooling system.

And, you know, there was so, and the thing about it is the cultural differences are so slight and small, but huge because they are literally the thing that derail you from your child going to school, you being able to open a bank account, you being able to drive, you know, No. So that took us up a minute to adjust to, but there are extraordinary things about moving to this country. You know, literally in the UK, the attitude is can-don't as opposed to can-do. And so that was life-giving. You know, I love warm weather and I had lived pretty much all of my life, most of my life in the UK, and never made peace with it. And suddenly here we were living in LA.

And every day it felt like summer, which it basically was at that time. The weather's actually changed in LA, by the way. These rains we have that are so intense. And then the heat, which is like unbearable. You know, it was a bit more, you know, even before. But that's a whole other thing. But the really tricky thing was we moved in 2007, and then we had the economic crash of 08. and the writer's strike of 08. And oh my gosh, I think if we had made the move after

0, well, I don't think we would have made the move. Right. It was so tough. My wife, we had two kids and she was pregnant with our third and I didn't work for 14 months. And that was rough. Wow. Yeah. How did you guys get by? Like, how does that work? Good question. It didn't. It was like, you know, we were, we were, we were in this headspace of, did we make the right choice? Like, what are we? It's just, but the good thing, I guess, is that it was everyone. Everyone was in the middle of this crash. Everyone in the industry was dealing with that circumstance. It was affecting not just America, but the UK as well, because of how interlinked those industries are. And yeah, you know, we basically ran out of money.

I remember being stood next to the kitchen counter with my wife, and we were down to $3 in my wallet, like literally $3. And the reason I remember is I gave her $2, and I held on to one, and I went, this is us. We couldn't go to an ATM because that would have just barked at us because there was nothing in there. But I will say, I remember us sort of sitting up in bed full of all the anxiety, but then just having this feeling of, well, at least we have each other,

you know, and that, and, and, and I, I sort of felt rich again because not everyone even has that. And I'm going to tell you a story. I don't think I've told anyone under these kind of circumstances. Also, what happened? Do you know the actress Kate Mara by any chance? Of course, yeah. So Kate Mara was at the time dating a wonderful, actor called Charlie Cox, who now plays Daredevil on the TV show. And they had become really good friends of ours. And we were in the middle of this time where we just had no money. And we invited them over for lunch. And we clearly had given them the most halaciously basic of meals, because it's all we could afford. Seriously. I was just about to say, what are you doing inviting people for lunch?

What were we thinking? I think we were sort of trying to pretend that our circumstances weren't our circumstances. But the next day, without us having expressed anything of our financial situation, they turned up at the door with a $400 Trader Joe's voucher and just handed it to my wife and I and said, just something we wanted to do for you guys. And I could cry thinking about it now. because it was just, it was, we ran to trade a judge after we got that voucher. And that's how bad it was.

And at the time, I had done a film with George Lucas. And a film called Red Tales that he had produced and was stuck in post for a long time. I was on the precipice of what I thought was the Hollywood dream. And then this crash happened. And it was just like such a weird confluence of things. We were in L.A., in Hollywood. I'd just done this film with Cuba Gooding Jr. and Terrence Howard and George Lucas was producing it.

And my wife was pregnant with us. And it was just like, what is happening? But between falling even deeper in love with my wife because it's all we had and then having friends like that who showed up like that, you kind of go, oh, I think, I think we're going to be okay. And we want. That must have been some lunch that you prepared that, by the way. I know.

How bad was the... I mean, they come over the next day with a $400 gift to get, but they must have been like, listen, we don't know what's going on with you, people. But that is not it. Wow. I know. How bad. I can't even begin to...

I think it may have just been like pasta with butter or something. That's a really sweet story, though. I want to ask you one more question about, I know that John Lewis, our former congressman, who's now deceased, but one of the all-time heroes of our country was on the set one day for Selma when you were playing MLK Jr. So can you talk to us about that? What was that experience like? Have you ever seen the video of him dancing? Do you know? I have. I have. I watched that video like once a month, whatever I need to put me up. Yeah. Yeah. If you, if you want to. a dose of joy, you just watch that.

What is the song? He's dancing to, what song is it? Happy? Oh, yes. Ferall, right? Yes, that's right. That's right. That's right.

He has got some serious fucking moves. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, tell us what it was like meeting him and having him on set watching you do that. Surreal. Terrifying. Completely surreal. And yes, yes, Catherine, terrifying. because, look, you know, in playing Dr. King, I had interviewed Andrew Young.

I had interviewed his kids, Dr. King's kids. I had interviewed several of these giants of the movement. I hadn't yet met John Lewis. And John Lewis was featured heavily in our film. I was being played by Stefan James. Of course, he's a busy guy. I couldn't get to him in my buildup to playing the role. And I, as you had alluded to, Chelsea, I stayed in character.

I just felt that's what I had to do for that role. We were shooting in Atlanta. We were often surrounded by people who had heard him speak, who had worked with him, who had been in his orbit. I'm obviously an English walking around with this accent just felt like not the way to elicit confidence or to sort of stay in the pocket, so to speak. So, you know, I was pretty much in the... that zone all the time. And then I got a knock on my trailer door and an AD said, just to give you a

heads up, John Lewis is visiting set today and would like to say hello. And I just felt all the blood kind of just leave my body. And just what did that person just say? And then they had literally warned me about a minute and a half before he was at the door. And so, So I was so in the zone of just staying as Dr. King, I greeted him as the character. And within a few minutes of our conversation, he just leaned into me and said, Dr. King, it is so good to see you again. And I could see that he wasn't just being cute. he went somewhere as he was looking me in the eye. And I just thought, how many layers can playing this role continue to afford me?

It was just so incredible. But what went on to happen is that day I was supposed to be giving a speech to 400 people in a church. And he decided to stay for me giving the speech. And I just thought, okay, great to meet you. Thank you for being here. That's a layer of pressure. I just don't know that I want. And you will never believe what happened.

So I don't know if you know this, Chelsea and Catherine, when you're shooting, if because of the generators and all the electrics used for making a movie, the minute there's a hint of a thunderstorm, you have to shut everything down, just in case lightning or, or thunder hits the generator. And literally, Ava Duvenet, who directed the film, went,

okay, everyone, going for a take, roll sound, everything went dark. Literally, and I'm not exaggerating. I have photographs of this thing. Everything went dark. And this thunderstorm just suddenly was over the church. We were going to be shooting in. And by the time the storm had passed, he had had to leave.

And I just was like, there is a god and he loves me. I mean, what my goodness. You willed that thunderstorm to happen. You're like, get the fuck out of here before I have to shoot this scene. Relief, exactly. No disrespect, but this doesn't help me. Get out of here. Oh, he's such a legend.

He is such a legend, John Lewis. Just the most awesome energy. So just the coolest. Okay, we're going to take a break. We'll be right back with David O'Yello. Experience Bruno Mars live in Toronto. IHard Radio wants to send you and a friend with flights from tripcentral.com. Two nights at Sheridan Center, Toronto.

Tickets to Bruno Mars and $1,000 to cash. Don't believe me, just watch. Download the free IHard Radio app. Listen to IHart New Music for 10 minutes. Win your way to Bruton Mars. Will you be there? A day you listen is another chance to win. 2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available.

I'm Michael Easter, and on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more, to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress. Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person.

Listen to 2%. That's T-W-O-Persent on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi everyone, I'm Cheryl Strait, author of Wild and Tiny Beautiful Things. I'm excited to share that I have a new podcast called Mind Over Mountain. In each episode, I interview athletes, adventurers, and adrenaline seekers to discuss the inner landscapes and life experiences that informed and inspired their extraordinary feats. I also bring a bit of advice into the mix so we too can better understand how to face our own seemingly insurmountable challenges. Do you know what I'm going to do?

I'm going to pull out what you already have inside. We're coming into this world, fighting for our lives. All I'm going to do is pull out what you already got inside. We're there to support and celebrate each other. And that's not like your story versus my story. You're going to walk up and over that dang mountain. You're not just going to put your mind over it.

Yep, yep, exactly. And if I can't walk up and over it, I'm going to go through it. Listen to Mind Over Mountain every Thursday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts. or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, earners, what's up? Look, money is something we all deal with, but financial literacy is what helps turn income into real wealth.

On each episode of the podcast, Earn Your Leisure, we break down the conversations you need to understand money, investing, and entrepreneurship. From stocks and real estate to credit, business, and generational wealth, we translate complex financial topics into real conversations everyone can understand. Because the truth is, most people will never taught how money,

really works. But once you understand the system, you can start to build within it. That means ownership, smarter investing, and creating opportunities not just for yourself, but for the next generation. If you want to learn how to build wealth, understand the markets, and think like an owner, earn your leisure is the podcast for you. Listen to earn your leisure on the I-heart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. We are getting into the advice portion of this show, David. So I want to know you can give me good or bad if there's any, yet maybe bad since you've already shared some good advice that you've gotten from Oprah and others.

Can you remember some of the worst advice that you've ever gotten? My dad gave me terrible advice over the two things that I value most in my life. My dad was my hero, my absolute hero. And he endured quite a bit of racism in the... the UK when he first moved there in the 60s and 70s. So when I met Jess, who is white and who went on to be my wife, and I went to him and talked about the fact that I think, I think this is the person I want to marry. He was so against it. And I didn't think then it was to do with, you know, all of the trauma of what he had faced from other white people. But his advice was David.

One day she's going to wake up and realize you are black. I was like, okay. Thank you for that. I think she's aware and that doesn't help me one bit. What on earth are you talking about? And he just was like, they are, they betray us, they leave us, they hurt us. That's what they're predisposed to do. And that was his reality. And I had to defy him on that. That was his advice. And he also didn't get married till he was 40, didn't have me till he was 42. And I can understand it now that I'm a father myself, but I, Jess and I got engaged when she was 19 and I was 21. And he was just like, are you out of your mind that she's white and

she's 19? And, you know, that was advice which I can now understand. having dealt with my own interaction, with racism, my own interaction, with now being a father who has children who are similar to the age I was. But at the time, I was in complete defiance of that. And then, you know, and then me telling him I wanted to be an actor, you know, the first thing he said, why do you want to go and be a jester? You want to go and be a jester? I was like, okay, that's what you think of actors?

Yeah, they are jesters. promiscuous jesters I was like okay I'm not listening to you on that either Daddy did you ever share what he said with Jess with your wife I didn't have to because he would say it to her face

I mean it was so upsetting like he met her I introduced him to her said do you know how many girls are calling David all the time eh you think you think I was like daddy He said, and what do you eat? Salad? Is salad the only thing you're eating? Salad, salad, salad. Why, you need to put some weights? Where is the meat? There's no meat. And I was like, I'm stood right there.

I'm like, Daddy, please stop. But that was my parents that would just say whatever was on their mind all the time. That's pretty cute. Maybe not cute at the time, but after the fact. The other thing, so he completely fell in love with Jess, with time, and then ended up living with us. And, you know, with time, my wife did become more voluptuous. And she would come in, she would come into the right. Oh, yes, this is wonderful. Mm-hmm. Yes.

Hey. I'm like, Daddy, I'm stood right here that is highly inappropriate. It's true now. Look at this. Wonderful. I was like, goodness. Oh, that's good stuff. Yeah.

I like it. Okay, we have some callers and we have some, we give advice, David, on this podcast. Okay, I'm ready. You're ready. Let's go, Catherine. What do you got? All right. Well, we're going to start with a caller.

So we're like jumping into the deep end. Okay, great. And David, I know you've given dating advice. It seems like it was successful to your children. So, you know, we're going to jump into some dating advice. Okay. Nishat says, Dear Chelsea. My family immigrated to the U.S.

almost 40 years ago from a predominantly Muslim country. I was born here a few years later. Overall, I'd describe my family as being quite liberal and progressive, with time they've adjusted comfortably into American society. That being said, I'd still describe our upbringing as being more sheltered than our peers. We were allowed to have friends and grew up consuming American pop culture and media, but school was typically first priority and dating wasn't allowed. I don't want to label my mom and dad as helicopter parents, but I'd say they had a tendency to be more overprotective than necessary. Due to their hesitation and expectations, I feel like I missed out on optimizing fun and exploration during my formative years. These reflections have now been having

an impact on my views about dating and relationships. The irony is that my family would love for me to find a great partner to share my life with, but my insecurities about my inexperience are getting in the way, and I feel like my upbringing is somewhat to blame. I'm embarrassed to admit that I've never dated or been in a relationship before. Now, at 34, I feel anxious, frustrated, and scared about navigating this world. I've been on and off a few apps over the past few years, but they simply make me feel bored and disposable, and I find the infinite number of choices overwhelming.

There were a few flirtations that I bailed on and never connected with in person, including one guy I matched with three times over the course of four years. I finally struck up the courage to send a message, but alas, he never responded. I've been harboring a crush ever since. I know everyone's complaining about the state of dating in this modern age, but I genuinely feel unfit to tread these waters. How am I supposed to start playing the game when I barely understand the rules? Sincerely, in a shot.

Hi, thank you for calling in. This is our special guest, David O'Yello-Oh, hi. Oh, dating. Dating is difficult. It doesn't matter if you've been doing it for 20 years or if you're just. I would say it's great that you haven't been exposed to too many men. I would say check in your box. That's a bonus.

Yes. And your desire, A, is also great. Like the fact that you're interested and that you've taken steps to make something happen is also positive. Do you have a therapist that you talk to? No, I do not. I'm considerative, but I haven't really taken the step in that direction. No. I think it's important to have a therapist.

I think especially at your age, especially with everything that you're just, I mean, it doesn't matter where you're from or what your life experience is. We all need therapists. We all need a sounding board. And we all need to unpack our childhoods in some way. and there's all this, you know, trauma that some of us don't even know about. And whether it's like huge traumas or like little micro traumas throughout your life, it's very important to talk to somebody about what shaped you and how you come into this world to become the woman that you are.

And also to just kind of help guide you along. Like I think as long as you're taking little steps in the direction of where you want to go, then that's a positive thing that you're doing. Being on the dating apps is fine. I know it's frustrating. Believe me. Like, I hear it all the time. I'm a woman.

I get it. But there are great men out there. There are. There's just, there's a lot of idiots out there. So it kind of makes it look worse than it is. But you have to just be focused, I think, on your intention, which is to be in a loving, happy relationship, I'm assuming. Yeah.

Yeah, definitely. Right. It's, I mean, I'm hoping that everybody on the apps is the same intention. But unfortunately, it's the Wild West. So you just never really know who's looking for something. serious, who's looking for something casual, and who's just kind of there for fun. Absolutely. And that's also, but like you can't control what somebody, all you can do is be as direct as possible. And like, you know, that's one of the things I just kind of started something

on my Instagram. It was kind of about ingest, but it turned into this whole dating thing of setting people up because I was like, where are all the men out here? I know so many incredible women and there are, where are the men? So I think there's just like, we're in a time in our culture where it's just like men aren't working as hard to try to meet women or they've forgotten how to connect with women. But there's definitely like, you know, I think for you as a woman to be intentional to be to be up front to say, I'm not looking for something casual. I'm looking actually to get to know somebody and, you know, to see without any pressure on it. Yeah, that's a good way to take the pressure on. Get into the art of practicing communicating that way and get into the practice of trying to go on dates.

you know, use those apps and and use those dates like do nice, innocent, daytime coffee, meet up. I'm open to those things, absolutely. Yeah. Not happening as often as I would have preferred. Right. Do you have a good group of girlfriends, Nishat? Um, do I have a good, that's, that's. Or a couple, one or two.

I have a couple. I don't like saying it, but I feel like the older I've gotten, the smaller that group has also gotten. Yeah. people kind of get preoccupied with, you know, their own changes in their life. They have new priorities. And so we just don't really get to keep in touch the same way we used to. Totally.

It's pretty limited to, like, texting or phone calls, but I do have one or two people I still keep in touch with from school and from college. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like right now what you need is a cheerleader. And whether that's, like, reaching out to girlfriends and getting back in touch with them on a regular basis or a therapist, like someone who can walk through this with you and be cheering you on because it's not just, one step, right? It's like multiple steps and getting to know someone and then maybe if things get more serious, it's really important to have somebody in your corner cheering you on. Yeah. And I try to

also learn from their experiences because they've also kind of gone, you know, through the whole process. And I've heard horror stories. And so I think that's kind of pushed me away from wanting to engage in the experience. But you can only learn to swim if you get in the water. Yeah. He's telling myself. So, you know, it might take a while, but I'm trying to stick through it to see what's the outcome. Yeah, and you don't have to feel embarrassed. Like, I have multiple friends who were in their 30s before they really started dating, and they're happily settled now. My one friend, I say, like, I'm so glad you didn't make us meet a ton of people.

It was like the first person she met, that was her person, and they're very happy now. So it can definitely happen. But also, I just would say, like, don't give up. And if somebody doesn't respond to you or, whatever, that's not your problem. Every no is closer to the yes that you're going to find. Do you know what I mean? So get rid of, who cares about that guy if he didn't respond? Great. Who's next? Let's, and get into that practice of going on really casual, innocent, like coffee dates just to get into the rhythm of it so that it doesn't feel like such a big deal anytime you do it, that you're not giving yourself away. It's just kind of like, oh, this is what I do now a couple times a week or once a week or whatever you want to set up. But constantly making efforts

in the direction you want to go, which is to be in a relationship. And I think it's wonderful that you have accepted that. A lot of people don't even want to say that. They're like, no, I don't want it. It's too scary out there. Like, it's good. What part of the country do you live in? So I'm in New York City. Yeah. I live just outside of the city in the suburbs. Yeah. And then I also think when summer coming up and spring coming up, there's so many things you could sign up for, so many like activities that are outdoors in New York City where you can meet people that are going to be geared for people who are trying to meet people. You know what I mean?

If you look up like dating activities in New York City, they'll be like, oh, singles, women and men, men meeting women. Like they have all that stuff available. So you're in the best city in the world to do that, to make that happen. I keep being told that. But I think another issue is I'm a terrible flirt. I'm terrible as I'm like zero. I don't know how I would even navigate that kind of a scenario.

I look forward to those kind of exchanges, but because I, I haven't had any experience. I wonder how would I even perform and how would it feel like? You know, so it's, it's like constantly like big, big butterflies in my stomach. Yeah. Well, I really, really encourage you to get a therapist and really have somebody in your corner that you can really bounce this stuff off of because she's going to help you. I'm saying a woman because you should get a woman.

And she's going to help you navigate this. And I think it's great that you want to put yourself out there. and that is a big step. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. David, do you have thoughts? Yeah, I do.

You know, everything I'm hearing, which I agree with, is how can you be active rather than reactive in a sense and also intentional? You know, in terms of your upbringing, some of what I expressed on here today, is my own parents' perceptions that were being transposed onto me. and I could either reject them because I recognize that that's their experience and not mine, or I could internalize them and then be pulled into someone else's prejudices, preconceptions, fears, doubts. And before you know it, you have this sort of generational cycle that is a downward spiral on the basis of information that may not actually even be true anymore.

That may have been your experience coming over to this country in the 60s or 70s or whatever, but the world has changed. I'm a different person. I have different beliefs, values, aspirations, desires. And so I think to actively recognize that you may still be living or reacting to your parents' estimations of what your life should be and who you are is one thing. And then to Chelsea's point about therapy, you know, what are the things that you are? you can intentionally do on the basis of the revelation you've had about yourself and then the

putting of yourself out there in a sense, which is terrifying for everyone, of course. What I would also say is to get rid of any shame tied to the fact that you're in your 30s and you are you and your experience is specific. Because of how I was raised and my own belief system from a faith standpoint, I was a virgin when I got married and I got teased mercilessly for that. But it was my truth and it has proved to be something that is wonderful for me. And there were times where when I was being teased or mocked for it that I could have been drawn into someone else's perception of what I should have been doing. And to be honest, for me, that I just know that wasn't the path I wanted and the path that was going to lead to my own specific brand of happiness.

And so I agree with Chelsea. I have a lot of friends in their 30s and 40s who have dated a lot and are left with real scars that mean that almost the idea of them finding a partner is harder because it's that now they're bringing so much baggage to those relationships. And again, not to say that that isn't. something that you can also still find love through. But please don't think that you are now somehow damaged goods because of your age or your parental thing or even being shy. You know, there's going to be someone out there.

That's the very thing about you that they love. Easier said than done. But what are the intentional things you can do? What is a team sport or a social situation that you can put yourself in that isn't necessarily tied to dating? but it's going to help with your confidence so that you're going into situations whereby, you know, you've just dealt with some of your social anxiety that isn't in a setting that is about dating, which is just like way too many anxiety-induced. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, so what is that thing? You know, is it a board game thing? Is it a book club? Is it a whatever? You know, get outside of your comfort zone and then get rid of the shame, you know, dispel, you know, the projections of your parents. and then yeah and then just keep on getting getting on out there i was just saying to these guys i'm literally officiating the wedding of my assistant on saturday she's she's in her 40s her husband to be

is in his 40s they met on set he was our art director and i i just saw the most beautiful appless cute convergence which is now leading to these two guys in their 40s getting married at my house So it's that today. I love that it's atlis. Yes. Yes. It can still happen. It can still happen. And also just letting people know, you know, that are in your life and in your work life that you're interested in meeting someone. It's good to keep putting that message out there and letting people, you never know where you're going to be introduced to somebody. True, true. Yeah. So I'm going to try to stay open to those things. Okay, great. I can't wait for your first boyfriend. Let us know. Will you follow up with us, Nishat?

Absolutely, definitely. I'll follow up with you guys. Thank you so much. All right. Thanks so much. Nice to meet you. Likewise. Thank you.

Bye. That was such great advice. I know. That was great advice, David. I loved everything you said. Now we have you on record giving dating advice. This is awesome. Happily.

Happily. So Evelyn says, Dear Chelsea, I'm writing because I can't seem to make the move to leave a situation that isn't good for me. I've been with my current partner for three years, and I think about leaving almost every day. An overview, he cheated one year into our relationship with an ex and also slept with his son's mother when we were broken up due to at the aforementioned cheating and lied until it was clear he couldn't lie anymore. I thought I could forgive and move on, but I think about it often and

obviously don't feel like I can trust him. He has a terrible relationship with his son's mother, calls her names, argues and fights with her often. Crazy that they slept together, huh? We don't have anything in common. Our conversations are pointless, and he has a short fuse. He's also a great provider. He loves our daughter and great with kids. I'm close with his family, so he has a good side too. That's where I get wrapped up in guilt, but I know that I deserve better.

Oh, and he proposed on a trip recently, so guilt is at a max. Even writing this, I'm like, girl, obviously you need to leave. The problem is, I'm a mom to our 15-month-old daughter. I don't work, so I'm apprehensive to leave. I'm scared he'll be awful to me like he is with his son's mom. I just don't know where to start or how to leave or if I should. Do I leave and bite the bullet? Put my daughter in daycare.

I have a lot of anxiety about leaving her in daycare and start to rebuild. I know what you're going to say. And my gut is saying the same, but I feel like I'm stuck in quicksand. Please help. I look up to you so much. I dream of one day being able to make moves within my own life that are aligned with my beliefs the way you do. Thank you, Evelyn. Hi, Evelyn.

Hi. Hi. This is our special guest, David. He's here today. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi.

Hi, I'm really sorry about what you're going through. I can feel the pain in your letter. I understand that you're in a really difficult spot, but I think you obviously know the answer to your question because you do. And you have a knowing, we all have a knowing within us, whether you're a man or a woman or anything in between. We all have an instinct and a gut. And the longer you put off listening to that gut, it just feel like the higher of a price you're going to pay. Do you have any family? Do you have anyone you can go to if you were to move out or to leave that can help you? I think I would. Yeah. Like, I think I could make it work. Okay. Well, that's, that's something. So like, I think you also something to know is like the people in your life that love you, they already know what the situation is. And they're

going to be very more helpful than you know. When you reach out and ask for help, people really want to help you that really love you. They do. So I think it's a time for you to think about who those people are in your life and ask for help. You're not going to need it forever, but you're going to need it for the transition. And you really have to take care of yourself. And I also just want to say, like, this is about not just you. This is about the health and happiness of your child. So sometimes when we can't defend ourselves, like the way that we would for a child, a daughter, a sister, a mother, you have to think of, this is her future.

So you're doing the most loving thing for the future of her and the future that you have together. There's a whole world out there where you're going to feel loved and cherished and not in this situation. But it's going to take a couple, it's going to take some big moves on your part. Right. David, can you speak to, I know you've talked about listening to your knowing. And can you speak a little bit to that and how you experience that? Yeah. I mean, firstly, Evelyn, I can see the pain in your eyes.

I can see the conflict. I can see that what you're going through is very difficult and just not easy in any way. And as Chelsea has already alluded to, it's your child is part of a component. So, you know, I don't want to be glib in relation to that. This is tough stuff. Again, I think you know the answer to your own question, but I think it's worth giving it context, which is. that you have tried and tested this person and they are not to be trusted. And so you've already

done the thing that is where love emanates from. I personally believe love is sacrifice. And that sacrifice sometimes manifests in, let me meet this person where they're at. Let me, let me give them the benefit of the doubt. And if they have consistently not met, that level of generosity and sacrifice to what they may be able to offer, then at some point the ability to trust them has gone. And that's you having done your part. If it was gossip or hearsay and you didn't know it for a fact, then we would be here saying, well, have the conversation,

you know, have couples therapy or whatever, but it feels like that Rubicon has been crossed over, so to speak. And so it's about self-love. It's about how are you going to now love yourself and your child through to the other side of this? Because I've personally witnessed people recently, a friend of mine who stayed, and everyone around them are just like,

You just know this is not going to be good. It's only going to continue to deteriorate. You're only putting off the inevitable because there's something that is broken, whether it's in the relationship or the individual. And it sounds to me that this person, there is a brokenness in them. That means that they are constantly looking for,

whether it's self-esteem, affirmation, whatever it is, that you are not providing them and cannot provide them. And that is something that you must not beat yourself over because I'm sure you have feelings of insecurity, feelings of shame, feelings of why wasn't I enough? Well, you will be enough for someone, but you will only get to that someone once you have cleared this slate. And so, you know, my hope for you is that you do make this step that you know you need to make and that the sooner you make it, the sooner you will get through what will be a period of mourning, a period of pain,

a period of maybe even some doubt, but you will come out the other side into something better because hopefully you'll take the experience of that. You'll know what the red flags are. There'll be more self-love for yourself because you've made an act and a step that is based on loving yourself over your insecurity that makes you stay in a bad situation. And that hopefully will be what will inform your next choices and your next relationship. Right. Yeah. And Evelyn, I just want to encourage you like, this is big scale. scary stuff. These are huge changes that you would be making in your life and in your daughter's life. But you are brave enough for this. You are brave. Even just taking these first steps of like,

is this the right choice reaching out. That is brave. And I believe that you're brave enough to handle this. Thank you. And I think my biggest fear is like losing time with her because right now I'm 100% of the time with her. And if I made this move, it would be, working all the time and then 50-50 split and then I think I go back and forth in my mind. Is it better for me to hang on now to be with her all the time? Or is that just me being selfish? I think the time that you're going to gain more time with her by making a healthier decision for both of you in the future. Like this period that you're about to enter, maybe you won't be spending as much time with her as you want, but in the long run, it will pay off. You're going to

get the quality of time is going to be better than the quality of time you have now, because now you're kind of shielding, protecting her in a sense, and you're in this state, but your happiness is going to permeate her life. And your peace of mind is going to have a huge impact on your daughter. So we want you to be happy and healthy for the sake of your daughter also, not just for the sake of you. That is hugely important, but it's both of you that you're thinking about. So, like, yes, like this is all going to be, it will be the right decision down the road. It won't feel like it when you're going through these difficult things, but you do have the strength and you do have the courage to do it. And you're going to get your relationship with her is going to show it

in spades when you're in a different situation. So please keep us posted about what happens. Okay. Let us know. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. Take care. Thank you for calling. Bless you. Okay. Thank you. Bye. Video wants to send you and a friend with flights from Triffcentral.com.

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That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter, and on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more, to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress.

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Wow, that was pretty serious. Okay. Well, I thank you for your time today, David. You were so wonderful. I look and listen to you talk all day long. Oh, thank you. Well, likewise. I've loved this conversation. I've listened to your podcast. What I love, love, love about it is the combination of lightness, but also how you just go straight for the guts of something. And, you know, people, you've talked to people who, you know, like you are funny people, people who you have this perception of who they are. But whether it's therapy or relationships or religion or sex or, you know, addiction or it's just uh i just love that you get into the guts of it so this is uh i i feel honored to have been there been on the show oh thank you so much thank you and i can't wait to

come over to your house for lunch great david's newest movie is called newborn and it is out in playing in amc theaters right now so go see it i watched it it's fucking great and uh david i will see you soon yes see you on third at my house. Okay. I'll be there. Bye. Bye.

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And our podcast, Game Recognized Game, has never been done before. Two active players giving you a real look at our lives and what we actually think, on and off the court. Nothing's off limits. We talk tanking. I might get in trouble for this answer, but I think it's, like, definitely happening in the WBA. We talk about our mistakes, too. They pulled me to the side and was like, hey, man, we got a call.

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