Dear Chelsea - Supercharged Growth with Maren Morris

Episode Date: June 5, 2025

Maren Morris dishes with Chelsea about leaving country music and her marriage, supercharging her personal growth, and why being a woman takes guts and balls.  Then: A brand-new singer wonders how to gain confidence. A trans man struggles to find peace with his wife as they divorce. And a wedding RSVP starts to waffle.   * Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail] * Executive Producer Catherine Law Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert * * * The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone. Most of all, his wife, Caroline. He texted, I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me. How far would he go to cover up what he'd done? The fact that you lied is absolutely horrific.

And quite frankly, I question how many other women are out there that may bring forward allegations in the future. Listen to Betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Made for This Mountain podcast exists to empower listeners to rise above their inner struggles and face the mountain in front of them. So during Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional well-being, and then climb that mountain. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify, the thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain. This is the struggle. Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. I'm also the girl behind voiceover the movement that exploded in 2024 You might hear that term and think it's about celibacy

But to me voiceover is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's flexible It's customizable and it's a personal process Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. No. Listen to voiceover on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times big economic forces show up in our lives in small ways.

Four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up, So now I only buy one. Small but important ways. From tech billionaires to the bond market to, yeah, banana pudding. If it's happening in business, our new podcast is on it. I'm Max Chastin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith.

So listen to everybody's business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, Catherine. Greetings from Portugal. Hi. How are you? Hi, I'm good. How are you doing? I'm doing fantastic.

I'm just taking the day off of work today, actually, after this. So, it's stuff for this. I just drove two and a half hours with my cousin, her lover, and their water who had diarrhea on the side of the road by free. We took us about 47 minutes to get all of our luggage in the trunk. My tour, European tour, officially ended last night. I did my last show in in Libsyn, Libsyn, Lisbon. I developed the lisp. I had my last show in Lesboa, or Lisboa. That's how they say it there, Lisboa, in Lisbon.

And I was very tipsy on stage last night because we were celebrating all day. We were walking, we'd stop and we got Moscow mules. And then we had sangria. And then by the time we got to the show, things were, the wheels really came off. So it was a perfect way to end my tour. We had the best time and the best audiences in Europe.

I'm so appreciative of everybody who came out. It was such a fucking blast. And I've never walked so much in my life. And did you think that you'd be going on tour with a toddler? I mean, was that? No, I did not. She had to come on stage last night, too. She always wants to come on stage.

And so we told her she came on stage and said, you're a fucking bitch, that she could come on stage. But so she was practicing backstage, but then she couldn't do it when she got on stage and said, you're a fucking bitch, that she could come on stage. But so she was practicing backstage, but then she couldn't do it when she got on stage, which is probably for the best. Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot. But she loves to, she loves,

she's like every night when she goes to sleep, she's like, is there a show tonight? Can I go on stage? She, they joined us like halfway through the tour. So yeah, it was pretty, it was pretty funny. I'm just so glad I don't have children. Do you know what I mean? Yes. You get like little bites, you know, little tastes. The amount of times, I mean, the patience that is required, the amount of times you hear the word mommy in one hour, it's like 900 times. Mommy, mommy, mommy, mommy. I'm like, oh my God, oh my God, I can't believe.

I understand why people lose their fucking shit. Yeah, and also like daddy is there too. So it could be daddy, daddy too, but nope, it's always mommy, it's always mommy. Yeah, she's even, she's like, my niece is like in a relationship with her father. They're like a couple and then Molly comes in and like, Molly comes in and just shames everybody about everything.

Everyone got sick at some point, except for me, luckily. Knock on wood. That was good. The two that were very hungover this morning. And I was at the gym, like I always am. She's like, wow, you really are an alcoholic. She's like, you can survive anything. I'm like, you just need to shoot up what I'm shooting up.

Okay. Take all these peptides I'm taking because I can handle almost anything. Yes. So, do you get to have a little vacation now? Yes. Now I'm in Portugal. I'm at my friend's 50th birthday weekend. So, I'm here for about four or five days. And I've never been here before, the Algarve Coast.

I've been to Portugal a bunch, but never here. So, we'll see what happens. I mean, any... It's possible, Catherine. Anything. It's great. You have earned it. It's time for some time off and you get to just chill a little bit.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Okay, so who do we have coming up today? Well, today we have the lovely Maren Morris who has a new album called Dreamsicle. Yes, I love Maren Morris and I bumped into her on a television show. So this was perfect timing that we had her on. I like how when she said,

fuck you to country music for not being accepting or for, well, there was a bevy of reasons, but it was basically directed at their sexism, misogyny, and homophobia. Yeah, no, she is cute. She is smart. She is fun.

She knows her mind. She was a great guest. Okay, bring her on. Welcome to the show, Morris, everybody. There she is. Hi, Maren. I'm happy to see you. I'm good, how are you doing?

Long time no see. Well, we just ran into each other at one of those shows. I don't wanna say the wrong one though, so I'm scared. Is it Access Hollywood or is it Tonight Tonight? I think so. Access Hollywood. I mean, I should know because I know the girls there as whenever I roam through there, so I don't want to insult them by saying the wrong show.

So if I do, whatever, it's on me, Maren. It's all on me. You know what? It was fun. I was so happy to see you because I met you years and years ago, as we discussed when Maren was opening for Keith Urban and I was doing my Netflix show. So that was probably like almost 10 years ago,

I interviewed you on a tour bus. Yeah. And you were a little baby and you didn't have a baby yet. And now you have a baby and you're not a baby anymore. But what I really have respected about you A's at how outspoken you are. It really is amazing to see when you said basically, fuck you to country music.

And I know you weren't saying fuck you to country music, but you were saying fuck you to really the industry of country music. Yeah, I think mostly just like the pillars of establishment where it's these pockets of like MAGA infiltration since 2016, which is truly like when I guess we met, it's just taken a nose dive and it's not everyone in that world. Like there's tons of people.

I live in Nashville. So I mean, I haven't like become an expat of every facet of this. I love living here, but yeah, I mean, it's certainly, like, become an expat of every facet of this. I love living here. But yeah, I mean, it's certainly just tough to sort of want to make music you love and then deliver it to a space that feels safe and inclusive and, you know, celebratory. So, I think I just had to sort of go back to the drawing board

and figure out, like, what I truly wanted to do. And how did you come to that decision? Was that just your own? Like, did you have to discuss this with anybody in your life before you were public about it? Or is this something that you just felt so passionately about that you had to say something? I mean, I think it was becoming more galvanized

as, you know, the pandemic was stretching on and we were just trying to figure out how to tour again in a safe way. I think it just really opened up a lot of blind spots, so people I worked with and just the community here. Most of it is so supportive and loving, but I did have to figure out, what do I wanna do going forward musically? Which I think I've always been

a blurred genre line kind of artist because I'm just more about the songwriting element and it comes out how it comes out. But yeah, I think just making some intentional decisions on where I send this music to. And the thing is, I'm always gonna love country music. It's so tied into my DNA of how I listen to music, how I write music.

It's all through this portal of the Nashville way of writing songs, co-writing, lyrical structure, the ABAB of it all. I don't want to get rid of that part of myself. I love country music's honesty and telling real people's stories, but I always go back to this interview in the late 80s of the highwaymen. So it's like Johnny Cash, Willie Nelson, Christopherson, Waylon, and they're all talking about funding public education over excessive military spending. And just giving back to the poor and the elderly. These icons, these outlaws,

which a lot of these people will wear on a t-shirt, like they don't remember what these dudes were fucking talking about from day one. And that's country music to me, which is like fighting for the oppressed and writing about those stories. Yeah, I feel like that's analogous to like how I feel about America. You know what I mean? Like the integrity with which it was founded, or with the ideals of what it was always meant to become, is probably, you can say the same about country music. Like, nobody's, nothing is founded on hate and bigotry and exclusivity.

Things are founded on love and spreading joy and messaging and inclusivity. And yet, somehow we get mired, you know, like, like, industries can get mired in this way of of thinking and then they can become dominated by that. And like, that's how it feels like in our country, even though I don't feel like we're being dominated by hate, there's enough out there that it feels that way. I always want to err on the side of love and believe that there are more good than there are bad people. So I'm just going to choose to continue to think that way for the time being. bad people. So I'm just going to choose to continue to think that way for the time being. Yeah, I mean, I think I will always have this like intrinsic hope and ambition that I mean, humankind is truly just wanting to feel listened to and connected to one another. I think, yeah, when other like ulterior motives get when other like ulterior motives get cropped in, it's just, I mean, music and the arts are a mirror of society. And so when I saw what was going on within the establishment

of like mainstream country music, not so much like outlaw or Americana, it was like a lot of these rich guys cosplaying as cowboys with like $6,000 YSL boots that have never touched dirt. It's like, what's the saying? Or it's like, those boys are all hat and no cattle. That's like, that's kind of what was happening. And I mean, like, it's just interesting because I feel like at the end of the day, we're all just trying to like live and let live.

I think there's a nationalistic element to America and parts of country music where it's like this is ours, not theirs. That's just not a vibe I want to be a part of. I want to be inclusive and that only makes for better music also, when you invite inclusivity and diversity into it because some of my favorite collaborations over like the decades have been Those out-of-left-fields duets like when Willie and Ray Charles did their collab together It was just like so refreshing and it just opened up for better music to come in and rush in.

And so I think the same with like love. It's like you have to scare yourself and be uncomfortable and hear someone else's point of view or walk of life in order to like expand as a human. And you know, writing is just like my extension of that. But yeah, anyways, this is getting very, very existential. Well, but it's, but who cares a shit yeah, anyways, this is getting very, very existential. Well, but it's, but who cares a shit? I mean, that is beautiful.

Like we all want to grow in love and expand, but some people, it's like the people that are limited and the people that are closed off are not thinking that way. They're thinking about, it's a narrow way of thinking. And when you go through enough difficult stuff and you're a smart person, you eventually understand, and maybe not eventually, maybe right away, the benefits of expansion and the benefits of growing

and open-mindedness and actually going towards something that you think you might fear and learning from it. You have a huge new album called Dreamsicle. She's going on tour, everybody. She's going to the US, Europe, UK, everywhere. Tickets are available at marenmorris.com. The tour begins July 12th. So I've listened to part of this in the gym this morning. It's really beautiful. It's

very soulful. I mean, I don't even know how I would describe it in one word because there's a lot of different stuff in there. But I'm really just blown away at a, and I think this is demonstrative of what so many women experience, you came out of a marriage, you came out of quote unquote country music, and you had a huge growth spurt from what I can tell. Can you talk a little bit about that? You also had a baby, so I mean, that'll do it.

Yeah, I think just literally everything that could change in your life happened in like five years for me. And, you know, it was a slow burn of events like unfolding. And I think I was just hoping and waiting that someone would reach into my life and tell me how to fix everything. And when you realize on some of those like more isolated nights of just like not being able to sleep and because you just your body is in fight or flight almost I think I just had to buck up and be like no bitch it's you like you're the one that has to make that decision and figure out like where you

go from here it's not going to be anyone else like I mean I think you go into this like inner child mode of like, how do I get out of this? Like, who can help me? Like my mom or my dad. But I think, yeah, I just, I realized I was expanding and growing at a really fast pace, I think from 2020 on. And yes, you could from 2020 on. And yes, you could throw motherhood and the postpartum thing, learning about myself, not being able to work in that moment. There were a lot of identity crises going on, but I realized I can't look back and slow down for people anymore. I want to set my own pace and I will sacrifice my comfort and loneliness or feeling not lonely to move at the pace that I have worked really hard to move at. And I think it's not a fun decision. It's not a fun aftermath or fallout of a decision like that.

But I think now that I'm a little bit more on the other side of it, I do feel like no part of me ever wakes up at three in the morning and is like, I've made a huge mistake. Like I feel like I sleep better because my body can finally relax and knows that it made the tough but right decision. It's hard to know what day occurred that it all started to shift, but maybe circumstantially it doesn't to me feel like, oh, let's throw the baby out with the bath water and change everything about my life. It just happened organically to have, you know, all occur at once. But yeah, personal life, professional, all the shit was just like a tornado.

And I was like, I swear to God, if I can like white knuckle myself through this and survive, this is probably the hardest thing. Like I'll endure and I'll be okay if I get through this part. I think it's so interesting that you say that because it's so true. Like I know through some of my difficult moments in life, you are kind of waiting for someone,

like whether it's your agent or your manager or your sister or your father, you're waiting for somebody to bail you out to come and say, I'll take care of you. And like I've had so many, when I was younger, I had so many of those like kind of tantrumy moments, like somebody needs to fix this, somebody needs to fix this.

And it's like, there's only so much anybody else can do about you and your state of mind, which is the first ingredient you need is to have clarity and to have focus in order to lift yourself out of anything. Yeah, I think I was just maintaining a level of stress and thinking that because I'm used to this level of stress, it's comfortable. And the alternative to that is so in the dark that it's frightening. And now that I've removed that sort of perpetual level of holding the fucking plates up and

spinning them no matter the cost to myself and my mental health, now that I've removed that, I just see how much I was carrying and that was so unnecessary and so unfair to me. So yeah, I think like the whole rip the bandaid off thing is easier said than done, but I do think even if you're operating at a level of like just okay or good ish, you don't know what great is because you've never allowed yourself

the space to experience great. And I feel like now I can. And I'm like, you have to be like really okay with your own company. And I am. I could think that was always like the case was, you know, since I was a kid, I can internalize and go in here and that's probably why I'm a songwriter. But yeah, it's just, yeah, extremely daunting to make those choices. But you know, I just turned 35

and I do feel like I'm glad I didn't wait any longer. It just would have been such a like waste to myself. And I do feel like I'm glad I didn't wait any longer. It just would have been such a waste to myself. Absolutely, and I think there's so many, so many of the people that listen to this podcast are always calling in about that very question, like how do you take a leap? How do you move in the right direction? Like what is the first step?

And I always think it's just take a step in that direction, you know, and then the second one will follow, but you have to intentionally be like, this is the first thing I'm going to do to change my life and to head in a direction that I'm more comfortable with and passionate about. Yeah, and more people should talk about like, even the little baby step in the correct direction

or whatever is nauseating. It is, you are fighting every safety inside your body to make those choices, whether it's to leave a job or a relationship or sever ties with a friend or a family member. Those decisions, at least for me, because I just feel so much empathy and I never never wanna let people down, people please, it feels like you're gonna vomit. Like every time you even take the tiniest step to someone else, like it's huge to your brain

and your functioning. How did you deal with any of the backlash you got from the country music industry after you came out publicly? Came out. No, like against them. I came out. Oh, got it.

Well, I was like, that too. Well, that, right, right, of course, that too. But not, who cares about that? About that, about when you- We're all a little gay. Yeah, exactly. So, and if we're not gay yet, you will be, okay? By the end of this administration, you'll all be gay.

Yeah, just date one more man, and I promise you, you'll all be gay. Yeah, just date one more man. And I promise you, you'll be gay. Totally. Somebody tried to I was coming to New York. I'm in New York right now. And somebody's like, I have this guy I want you to set you up with. I'm like, I can't even think about

men right now. OK, just get away from me. I have no interest in a man right now. I have other things to think about. I'm like, when I get to Europe, I'll be in a different zone. Yeah, maybe it's better. You'll fare better over there.

But I mean, I mean, there's backlash with anything that you do that's not normal. So I think I also remember very clearly the chicks' backlash of the 2003 Bush era, you know, Iraq war stuff. So like, that's like my, my touchstone of how an industry can blackball you or snuff you out or attempt to. And I think, you know, it's slightly better now because of social media and more people can be like exposed to what you're saying and have the context

of what you're saying. But I was kind of surprised at how many people reached out to me privately or publicly in support and just being the courage that it would take to do this or just change up your plans this way. And I wasn't really doing it in the hopes that these people would think that I'm like Joan of Arc or some bullshit. I was just like, I'm just attempting to like be happy and I'm gonna have to make some major changes

for that to be a reality. And to be honest, being honest. I mean, you didn't have to say that publicly. You could have said that privately. I think there's a real power. I mean, anytime someone says something like that and is loud about that in a righteous way, you are paving the way for so many other people that you will never even know about, you know, and not to mention all of the gay country artists that we've learned about since

making that announcement. So like, kudos to you for doing that. That takes a lot of balls and a lot of guts because I'm sure there was a part of you that was scared or a fraction of you that was like, oh my God, what's the backlash gonna be like? And I'm all for that because you're helping so many people that you'll never even meet. Oh, well, thank you. I mean, I think I've always been a loud mouth

and I think it's just from kind of growing up in Texas in this very red state, lots of conservative family and being so mentally online for like post 9-11, the chick stuff, things that were happening within the South and in country music on a public level with the war. I mean, the age of millennial that I am is like, that's when people really started paying attention because we had to. It was on our TVs. And I think it just instilled in me this like kind of rebellious spirit of like, how do I build community in a place which is so red? And like, even back then, it felt very quaint. Like people post Trump, it's a little

bit different. But I think even back then, it didn't feel quite so adversarial. But it's just grown as I've grown my audience. And I think also, like, I have so many women that work for me and with me and people of color, people in the queer community. So like that's my backstage and onstage. And then I'm looking at my crowd and it's like each album, each like year even it's diversifying. And I remember the first time I ever played

like New York City, it was like the Bowery I think. And I just, I had never had like gay fans. And so seeing on my first like EP, and you're in like the biggest city. So you're like, okay, this is what you know, the city crowds gonna look like. And I was just obsessed. And I just wanted more of that. I wanted people to come to my show and feel like they were safe to do so and they would make friends at my shows in the crowd and I've seen this happen like over the last like nine years. Yeah, so I think part and parcel of building that is letting people know where you stand on almost everything. Like I think there are some things that I don't blame or shame my peers for not speaking up on because, you know, it's fucking hard doing this.

But I think in the long run, and I've lost fans along the way, and that's going to happen is you have like a longer career, you're going to lose people, like the more that you exist and aren't just like cookie cutter, and you're a fully formed human being. I think you're gonna lose people and that's okay. I think that's healthy, but you're gonna like remain with the people that have been there from the jump that always understood you and you understand them. And then like attract the people that you want over time.

Do you feel at 35 years old, this is a weird question. It's not a weird question, but it's direct. Do you feel at 35 years old, this is a weird question, it's not a weird question, but it's direct, do you feel like a woman? Yeah, I do now. I thought you were going to say like, do you feel old? Because I do most days, but I, yeah, I do. Because I think I started doing this so young. I think we talked about this the last time we spoke, you know, in an interview format.

It was like, I've been touring since I was 12. So and you love touring. You love it. She loves it. She loves it. She loves being on the road. I just love the I love the show. Like the energy I get from that.

It just feels like a healthy version of like the churches I grew up in. And I think that connection to an energy like that is just, it's addictive, yes, but it's also like extremely therapeutic. And so yes, I love the road, but yeah, I'm 35 now. I have a five-year-old. I've been divorced now. Yeah, I feel like a woman. What are the boxes I'm ticking? I love living alone. Yeah. Like, I love having my space. That's very sacred.

I think just like not sharing a closet with someone or a bathroom counter. I can have all my shit everywhere. Yeah, I mean, that feels very womanly to me. It's just like the liberation of home, like space in your house. Yeah, it's so nice to be alone, isn't it? It's so nice to have your own space and be alone. Anytime I have a boyfriend or Cher,

we go on vacation together, because I won't live with anyone again. I hope I never do until I'm in a facility. And then I'll live with my boyfriend who will be 20 years younger taking care of me for a fee. My male nurse that I'm totally happy to pay as a transaction. But I didn't start feeling,

and I think I guess motherhood also plays a very strong component because I think once you have a baby, there is a sense of womanhood that comes on. But I didn't start to feel like a real woman until I was in my 40s. I always felt like this little girl energy, like, you know, punky Brewster-esque, like, oh, you know, I'm still not really responsible.

I have all of these things, and I have all these people that help me do all these things, but even though I'm running the whole thing, I don't feel like a woman. And so I think it's interesting to find out at what ages women do start to feel that way. Yeah, I mean, I totally get what you're saying because I do still have this like zest

and like energizer bunny-esque-ness to me. But maybe on the sort of negative space of that is like, again, the people pleasing thing or just like the performer in me. Mm, you're right. In every element of my life, like it's exhausting, but it's just so hard to break that pattern of myself. And like even in relationships, like romantic relationships, feeling like they need the best version of me,

like especially off the bat, like no flaws, no downsides, like everything's peachy. And then you're like, oh my god, like they're gonna fucking ruin it anyways. So just show them all your cards. Explore healthy detachment. But I, yeah, I mean, I feel like a woman, but also like I bet when I turn 40 in a couple years, I'll be like, that one was an idiot, like the 35 version. So no, I'll be proud at any milestone.

But I do think like there is something, yeah, with motherhood, but also just like anything like divorce, where it's a failure of the promise and the plan that was made initially, but it's, it's also like a success. And I don't want to like sugar coat it. Like it's not fun to go through this and like also in a public way, have like friends and family that you haven't spoken to in years, like reaching out to you about something in TMZ that feels so private, but like shit happens as part of the job. I just think I've earned my stripes through that. Yeah, and you can also divorce in a very successful way.

So it is a success by many standards and by many measures without referring, you know, to the end of the marriage. That in and of itself can be a success when it's not a healthy marriage. So yeah, our whole language around all of it should just be flipped and like flip it and reverse it. That's so true. I think also because we're over a year out now, like my ex and I, and we obviously have our son to co-parent,

like we get along now and have moved past a lot of it, but we're neighbors and I'm just so fortunate that we like have put our son above each other's shit and can truly, and it's better for the two of us if we're getting along, obviously, as well as co-parenting our son. But yeah, I mean, I'm lucky that we love each other so much still and we have the highest respect, but also there is that devast devastation that like two people that love each other that much, they can't make it work in the real world.

It's always gonna be multifaceted, but I think ultimately like we both knew it was probably gonna be better this way, which is a success. Totally, absolutely. On that note, we're gonna take a break and we'll be right back with Marin Morris. Absolutely, on that note, we're gonna take a break and we'll be right back with Maren Morris. I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast, Betrayal.

Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone. Most of all, his wife, Caroline. He texted, I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me. Caroline's husband was living another life behind the scenes. He betrayed his oath to his family and to his community. She said you left bruises, pulled her hair,

that type of thing. No. How far would Joel go to cover up what he'd done? You're unable to keep track of all your lies, and quite frankly, I question how many other women may bring forward allegations in the future. This season of Betrayal investigates one officer's decades of deception, lies that left those closest to him questioning everything they thought they knew.

Listen to Betrayal on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. Campers who began the summer in heavy bodies were often unrecognizable when they left. In a society obsessed with being thin, it seemed like a miracle solution. But behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children was a dark underworld of sinister secrets. Kids were being pushed to their physical and emotional limits as the family that owned Shane turned a blind eye.

Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie. In this eight-episode series, we're unpacking and investigating stories of mistreatment and re-examining the culture of fat phobia that enabled a flawed system to continue for so long. You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad free on iHeart True Crime Plus.

So don't wait, head to Apple podcasts and subscribe today. Made for This Mountain is a podcast that exists to empower listeners So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today. Face the mountain that is in front of you. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify. The thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain. This is the struggle. This is the thing that's in front of me. You can't make that mountain move without actually diving into it. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, a time to conquer the things that once felt impossible and step boldly into the best version of yourself to awaken the unstoppable strength that's inside of us all. So tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional wellbeing and climb your

personal mountain. Because it's impossible for you to be the most authentic you. It's impossible for you to love you fully if all you're doing is living to please people. Your mountain is that. Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. To most people, I'm the girl behind voiceover, the movement that exploded in 2024. Voiceover is about understanding yourself

outside of sex and relationships. It's more than personal, it's political, it's societal, and at times, it's far from what I originally intended it to be. These days, I'm interested in expanding what it means to be VoiceOver, to make it customizable for anyone who feels the need to explore their relationship to relationships. I'm talking to a lot of people who will help us think about how we love each other. It's a very very

normal experience to have times where a relationship is prioritizing other parts of that relationship that are being naked together. How we love our family. I've spent a lifetime trying to get my mother to love me, but the price is too high. And how we love ourselves. Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. Yes.

Listen to VoiceOver on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back with Maren Morris, who has a new album called Dreams to Call, and then she's touring all over, so go to MarenMorris.com to get tickets. Okay, we have some callers, Maren. Are you ready, Katherine? Are you ready? Yes. Well, this first one is just an email,

but Jess says, Dear Chelsea, I've been friends with this girl, let's call her Molly, for four-ish years now. We met through mutual friends while I was in grad school and our partners get along very well too. We've stayed in touch a lot with biannual trips to see each other after I moved out of the town where we met.

Fast forward to two years ago, she's getting married and wants to do a big bachelorette trip out of state. I took it upon myself to essentially plan the entire thing. She was relieved to have the help. The trip went very well, followed by travel to their wedding later that year. All that to say, I spent a lot of time, money, and energy on her wedding. It was a big weekend for me too. The day after her wedding, my fiancé popped the question. He planned a little trip and it was just the two of us. He did get permission from the groom in advance. When I got engaged, Molly was happy for me but did not express

any explicit interest in the details of my wedding planning. The next time I saw her was on a friend's trip six months later. She did not ask to see my ring, nor did she ask any details about my engagement, which is crazy to me. If I care about someone, I'm curious about a big moment like that." She in fact expressed some annoyance at the timing of the engagement, possibly taking She said, She said, She said, She said, She said, She said, She said, She said,

She said, She said, She said, She said, She said, She said, She said, She said,

She said, She said, She said, She said, She said, She said, She said, She said,

She said, She said, She has a great job as a lawyer, so it's not really adding up. Without a firm RSVP, how do I know whether I should plan the tables and a meal for her and her husband, and it's a lot of money to waste if they don't end up coming? Should I address it with her or not even bother? Sincerely, Jess." Wait, so the proposal took place right the day after the wedding? The day after the wedding, but like in a totally different place. It wasn't like at the post-wedding brunch sort of thing. It was far away.

Oh, okay. And he cleared it with the groom, which I don't think he should have had to do, but he did. Yeah, that was the first mistake, clearing it with the groom. I thought it was on the grounds, like the brunch after. Right, right. I clarified that with her and she was like, no, no, no, it was like hours away. Well, I mean, you could ignore it, but I would go at it directly head on

and just send her an email going, it's clear that you're annoyed. You've showed that you've been annoyed with me for getting engaged after your wedding. I did not plan this proposal. My husband did. So A, these are the facts. B, I went above and beyond for your wedding,

as I would do again, like, you know, you say all of this with as much gentleness and love as you can, because you're talking to somebody who's basically having a little bit of a tantrum. And I would do it again. I was happy to be there. I was happy to throw your bachelorette weekend

or whatever she threw for her shower, however she wants to call it or whatever it was. Yeah, Bachelorette, yeah, you got it right. And I was there, I was happy for you. It's really disheartening to see you being lawfully about my wedding when you know that the costs that go into a wedding, you understand when somebody isn't gonna be there.

The fact that you're not coming in for my Bachelorette weekend after I threw you one hurts. The fact that you're not sure if you can come to my wedding hurts. Again, I did not propose to my husband. He proposed to me. It wasn't at your wedding.

It was after your wedding. Like these are things that are not gonna matter in six months. I would just be very direct so that you can get, you know, really just call her on her shit and get a direct response so that you don't have to worry about it. Just let me know either way. If you can't come to the wedding, okay, that's disappointing too,

but please let me know so I can save the money. You know? And I really hope one day you can get past this because I find this to be very silly. We were all there for your wedding, we were all present, and now I feel like I'm being punished for being proposed to. That's a good line. Yeah, that's how it feels. What do you think, Marin?

It's just so weird that all this happened, planned her whole bachelorette, showed up, and like celebrated her, and then they didn't see each other for six months? That feels weird too. Well, because they don't live in the same town. Oh, got it, got it. Yeah, they live a little bit farther apart.

Yeah, I mean, Chelsea's right. I think just approaching it directly, even though it's going to suck to hit send, because it's like, oh mean, Chelsea's right. I think just approaching it directly, even though it's gonna suck to hit send, because it's like, oh, God, like, I'm really coming at her a little bit assortably, but it does cost money when people no show on a wedding, and the table setting, and like the food and drink, and it's like, just out of courtesy, even that alone,

even if she hadn't planned The Bachelorette, it's like, you RSVP know. Right. And whatever. But yeah,, it's like, you RSVP know. Right. And whatever. But yeah, I think just like be direct and she might think that you're like attacking her, but I don't think any of us do. So just clear your mind.

No, and say it with love. Start it with like, hey, this is coming from love. I definitely feel some tension between us and this is what I'm ded you know, you can say it as softly as you want to, I'm saying it directly, but you can actually make it much softer. But why not if she's not going to be your friend, find out now. And if, if she's ever going to get caught, people need to be called out on their silly behavior. She's acting like a child if she's really upset about that, you know, which she probably won't, she may not admit, she may pretend it's about something else, you know what I mean?

Because it is embarrassing to admit you're upset about something. So what's the word I'm thinking of trifle? No, is that a truffle? Trifling? Silly? Truffles? I don't know. Whatever.

I feel like also if she still is waffling after you directly ask her like, hey, I need an RSVP. And she's like, well, we'd like, I think I would say like a no is okay. If we'd love to have you there. But if you really can't, please just let me know. And like, we'll assume that you're not going to come. Let's just plan on you. Yeah, you could do with that.

And just like, yeah, you could also frame it only like that. Like, listen, it's obvious that you have some issue with me and not even get into the details and say, it's obviously there's some issue here. I'm assuming you're upset about the proposal date, but that's really not in my control. That I didn't have any control over that. And you're waffling back and forth about even coming to my wedding.

While that's really hurtful, I think what you're trying to say to me is you're not coming. You could do it that way and make it more of a closed door thing. And you can even blame it on like the wedding planner. Like the wedding planner needs a firm RSVP one way or the other. So like, let me know by X date, especially if it's after the actual RSVP date. Well, our next caller is Mike.

He says, Dear Chelsea, I followed Chelsea from back in the Grey Goose days to Belvedere. I really respect your point of view on things. And you being a girl girls girl is pretty cool. I'm a trans man, which I'm not usually comfortable saying or even typing out loud. I've always identified as a straight guy. I'm 44, and back in my day, it was all about being stealth. The world is different these days. I've been with my wife for 18 years, married, together for 25.

We have an 8-year-old, and now the two of us are in the process of a divorce. She's been running on emotions, making it legally hard for me, financially too, and adding extra stress with our son. I never would have thought we'd be here. I took my vows seriously thinking I was protecting my son and me. I have an attorney, but I'm scared shitless to see what's to come. Do you have anything to offer to help me maintain focus to get through this with my son, yet positive enough to not let all this negativity affect my well-being? I see it taking over, but I'm getting through. Best wishes, Mike.

Hi, Mike. Hey, how are you doing, Chelsea? Hi. This is our special guest, Marin Morris, who joins us today. How are you doing? I'm doing. I'm happy to be here and looking forward to hear what you have to offer. Sorry, I'm already tearing up.

That's okay. No, no, no. So it's an acrimonious divorce, I take it? Yeah. I kind of like, neither one of us really did anything, so to speak, that really was anything, you know, so to speak, that that really was like, Oh my God, you know, you cheated or anything like that, that really broke us. Um, I think we've been together since we were young and we didn't really have proper guidance. And we went through a lot, you know, like there was a lot of, um, death, guilt, a lot of things that I don't think

I appropriately dealt with or neither did she.. I think we were both a little emotionally irresponsible as well as financially. I think it caught up to us. It was a lot of stuff we never dealt with coming to a head. Unfortunately, this is where we are and it's just like I don't even know what to do or how to handle it. I realize I'm very upset and how things are proceeding, but I'm trying not to get angry. I've related to you for many years.

You've helped me through a lot of this stuff that I went through. It was just like your show, Finding You, was kind of just awesome. I would just kind of veg out and watch it. And it and, um, you know, it was instruction from life. And at that time it was just like a long time ago at this point, really, like work stuff, you know, just regular life. And then like, I started realizing, like, I started like not appreciating

the little things and I think a lot of it just came to my head. And when I was ready to deal with it, she was it. And now I don't know who she's become, you know? It's scary. Have you been able to have a conversation with her? Are you able to have a conversation with her about how you're feeling and about moving forward in, like, a loving way for the benefit of your son

and accepting that the relationship is over, but also understanding that there can be a new relationship moving forward so that you can be a new relationship moving forward so that you can honor the family unit that you had? I try, you know? I've tried several different approaches because I used to, you know, I know where I did my wrong so to speak was not taking care of myself and I went through a lot of loss and I had mentioned I'm a trans guy. I don't think, you know, I always know she accepted that, but there through a lot of loss and I had mentioned that I'm a trans guy. I don't

think like, you know, like I always know she accepted that, but there was a lot of things that I don't think I really accepted, you know? And when I was younger, I came out as like a trans guy. I was part of this community and the city and I would go on talks and really encourage people. And then like, it was like, I found this beautiful girl in Long Island who was really straight, you know, and it was like all I found this beautiful girl in Long Island who was really straight, and it was all about being stealth, and she fell in love with me and accepted me. And I just can't believe 25 years later,

going through all this stuff, we're here. And our son is the most precious thing in the world. He's non-verbal, he's autistic. And he really needs us more than most little guys and girls, you know? And it is a shame. I don't know, you know, I needed to become humble. And how I relate to you as well is there are things that I felt like were so important to say and I needed to be heard.

And I needed to take a lot of steps back. And I think I kind of took them too late, you know? That's okay, though. That's okay. Everything's, it's okay. All of these things that you're saying are okay. It's part of your life and it's part of how you deal with it. Do you have a therapist? I do. And it's, it's been great to have that and to see that, that help and the self-reflection is amazing. And I mean, like I have a lot of work to do, don't get me wrong, but even like stepping out,

what encouraged me to email you is I went and saw you by myself. That's something I never would have done. I bought a ticket to see you in King's Theater. My English was messed in that email, so thanks for cleaning it up, Catherine. Because I was just so excited that I was doing it. And I was like, you know what, screw it,

I'm gonna reach out and just let her know it. You know, like, so just like that alone was a huge step for me to just humble, be humble, like to be able to walk in there humble, but confident, you know, I lost both. And I think that was part of what she fell in love with me. And I want us to kind of, kind of regroup. Like I even heard of like co-parenting counseling, like, all right, we accept, you know, marriage is over, we're accept, you know, marriage is over. We're gonna, you know, live apart. But like, there are so many resources.

I even brought her to a rage room. You know, like maybe we have like anger or resentment like banging out, you know, hit some stuff. Like, you know, you just like, I don't even know how to navigate this at all. You know? Okay, well, it's one step at a time, first of all. You have to take it one step at a time.

How old were you when you transitioned? So it was interesting. That's an interesting question. I think I always knew, but the first time I introduced myself, I was very lucky. I was going, I was probably like 10, 11, going into sixth grade. I was so lucky.

I was in the movie scene in Terminator 2, whatever year that was out. And I saw a girl that I liked and she assumed, you know, like I had my hair cut short and I was very, very fortunate transition-wise. But now later in life, I almost feel too fortunate, if that's weird or not. Well, it sounds to me like what you're missing is,

like there's a lot of delayed grief that's coming up that sounds like it's probably related to your transition and not getting the appropriate therapy going through that transition. Like you saying you were lucky to go through that, what the experience you're talking about, would also kind of mask like, okay, okay, I can do this, I can do this, it was not no big deal. And when it when it is a big deal, when there are feelings that you need to digest, and you need to understand about yourself, there's going to be a lot of emotion around that that you haven't experienced yet that

is necessary to go through. Otherwise, it will tear you apart. I think you're right, like even crying, like this is new for me. That's good, though. It's good that you're crying. It's absolutely wonderful. Like that's what you need to do more of is cry. It gets it out of your body. There's a breathing good that you're crying. It's absolutely wonderful. That's what you need to do more of is cry. It gets it out of your body. There's a grieving process that comes with transitioning

and if it's not handled properly, this is the kind of thing that can happen. And while it may seem like it's your relationship, and maybe it is, there's a lot of stuff that creeps up on us from our younger years when we don't address them. So I would really encourage you to really speak with your therapist

in a candid way about all of this. I would also encourage you to write down as much as you can whenever you can. Really start journaling about how you're feeling. And I feel like you're gonna realize that these emotions are very much tied to your emotions from being a younger person and that haven't been fully

examined. And while that may not sound like a fun thing to do, it's a necessary thing to do for your future and for moving through this divorce in a more amicable way. And if you can approach your wife in a way that is really loving, do you think you can or have you about moving forward in a more amicable way in the name of your son? I've tried, but I think my communication is just like... Off? Yeah, off. Exactly. I don't think I'm approaching it at all the right way and I just don't know how. Okay, well, can't you have your therapist? Can you have a session with your therapist and your wife and have her address the communication for both of you?

Wow. Like I keep thinking, wow. Like this is what I mean. Like this was incredible. Like I always keep thinking it has to be like co-parenting or this other couples like cat, like something together, but I never even thought of that. That is an amazing thing.

And I think you're right. My therapist, she's super supportive. And I bet you you have one session just to kind of get that communication through your mind. Maybe more than one though. Maybe more than one. And also frame it frame it to your wife like, hey, listen, I'm having I think I have a lot of work to do on my communication.

So I'm seeing a therapist, it would really mean the world to me if you could come in for a session and we can discuss moving forward in the name of our child for the purpose of co-parenting in the future. I have accepted that this relationship doesn't work for you. I will not going to fight you about that. And then you have to make that promise that you're not going to try and like get her back. That's not what this is about. This is all for the sanity and safety of your son. Yeah, completely.

Right? I try to open my home to her, like even Easter Sunday, it's like, even if we could just spend an evening together, wake up, let him see the Easter, it's two holidays a month that we celebrate, Christmas and Easter, a kid, you can't get that together. I try and encourage that,

but then if we're not communicating right, and we're being ridiculous, he feels that. He's nonverbal too, so it's a little bit more of a challenge. Well, he probably know nonverbal kids know more than verbal kids anyway, because their senses are so heightened. Yeah. Have you listened to that podcast, Telepathy Tapes?

Yes, I started listening to some of that. Absolutely. About nonverbal. It's pretty cool. It's pretty awesome. Whoa, mind blowing. Mind blowing. And it's incredible.

And it's like, I just know how many questions and even hearing some of your stories, like the questions I had, you know, like, imagine what's going through his head. And it's like, there are just so many things that we just need to get on board on, like even his therapies and schedules and whatever it is, like, we just gotta gotta be hands on deck. Yeah. And the way to get there is to get yourself in a healthy place. So you have to double down on your therapy, double down on your journaling,

start meditating for about 10 minutes a day, just to get yourself centered. Just download Deepak Chopra's app, download Headspace, download whatever, 10% happier. There's a million. They'll guide your meditation. They will tell you what to think about and what to focus on.

And just get yourself into, it's okay to have these emotions. It's important that you go through this grief, but it's really important that you don't take this out on anyone else. Like that you take your wife to your couples therapist and if she wants to go to one of hers, that's fine too. If she'd rather go to someone she knows, great, whatever.

This is all in the name of better communication and your communication is going to get better if that's what you choose to focus on in therapy and with your wife. So that's your first step. And then I want you to call us in about six weeks and give us an update. Oh gosh. All right. Yeah, you got it. You have homework. This is serious. Yeah, this is really serious. And it's six weeks, definitely. That hits us right on the head too. We're going to be going back to court and try not to cry. That's why I was trying to segue. It's okay. It's okay to cry. And I know she's good in there and so am I. And it just sucks. How do you just separate

that emotion, put the proper boundaries up to move forward? you know? And I think I never thought of that, so that's huge to even suggest that to my therapist. That's a huge step, like, hey, just come, you know? She knows that I've been with my therapist for a long time now, like, just come on in and just have it communicate and channeled in the proper way, that's a huge step. And that's huge, I appreciate that advice,

because you just looking in and getting me set straight right now, that's what I needed from you. I need you to get me focused. Marin shares custody with her ex for her child. So Marin, do you have any words of encouragement for him? I mean, it's so clear that you both care about your son so deeply. And that's like going to be the thing that saves you through all of this grief and like the car crash that is divorce. It's like the worst thing you can go through and it's, it's a death. Now that I'm kind of on the other side of it and we are great co-parents and we've

sort of let each other go in that romantic sense, even though we still have so much love and history and now a child to like, you know, be there for, I think. I was saying earlier, it's like the person you marry is not the person that you divorce on both ends. Like she might be thinking that as well. And it's just, that's like the hardest part is knowing that it's not the same. But for your son, I think the therapy idea, and obviously it's your therapist, so she might come in feeling a little bit like ganged up on. So I think the suggestion of if it's someone she's more comfortable with, I think just as long as there's a third party who's a professional in

the room being like holding you to accountable and giving you tools on how to talk to each other, you just fuel all of that self care and love and like respect for yourself, that is going to be so apparent to her and your son. This time, like give yourself the time to like be, you know, a little bit of a mess. It's grief, be sad, cry, journal, meditate, all the things. But I think, yeah, logistically, of course, like get a session on the books where it's the three of you. And I think that's just an amazing way to go forward, especially like if it's before the court date and the judge, at least in Tennessee, ends up like telling you how to split the co-parenting schedule. And I will say like, that's very bizarre, but also gives me comfort to know that like, and I think my ex-husband as well, like the state has given us this split and we have to abide by it.

So there's no like, well, do you get Easter or do I? Like it's in writing and that kind of just it takes us and our emotions out of it, which is really helpful for both of us. Now it's like, I won't say easy and we do co-parent super well now, but like, you just have to allow yourself that time to feel all the feelings and know that this is like a lot of probably residual stuff coming up from like your transition and as time that was so brave to do so like before we had all the resources and talks about trans people like you were so ahead of that, like and being a champion for your community and yourself.

I think like rekindling that as well, like go out there with your community again, like go do those talks again. I think that'll bring you so much like empowerment. You hit that on the head. So I recently started joining some trans groups again, and I was actually just, you know, so that starts actually next week Yeah, so you you actually hit you guys are hitting her out of the head

It's like a lot of that they come up I think Because I felt like a lot and maybe even put that pressure on her if she you know I can even get to that on her like That she accepted that and I put a lot of that on her and I put it I put her on a pedestal that way. And now having a child, like kind of what you said, I realized what unconditional love is, not just with a child, with another person.

And kind of like what you're saying, it's almost like a choice, but it is a choice and it isn't at the same time. Like when you realize what unconditional love is, it's incredible. And I know deep down she has that for me. It's just like what you guys are saying, guys are hitting it on the head and I appreciate it.

Like getting through some of that residual resentment or whatever that we just never dealt with. We never dealt with it. We just, I think got together very young and just kind of kept shelving stuff and getting through, having fun through it or distractions. It's not dealing with, you know. Yeah.

Well, Mike, will you check in with us in about six weeks? I sure will. I appreciate that. Thank you for that accountability. Yeah, absolutely. Take care, Mike. All right, guys. Talk to you soon, OK?

Thank you so much. Thank you, ladies, so much. I really appreciate everything. I really am. I'm really going to take it serious. Good. Thanks, Mike. Thank you.

Appreciate you. That was a very heavy phone call Good. Thanks, Mike. Appreciate you. That was a very heavy phone call. Well done, everyone. Well done. But amazing too. You could just tell he knew a lot of this already and is so self-aware, but also sometimes like what you were saying earlier, just someone tell me what to do next. Yes, exactly.

Well, our next question comes from Allie. She is 22. Dear Chelsea, my name is Allie. I'm just starting out in music. I have the urge to rush everything. I'm writing music whenever it comes to me and all I wanna do is post it on my Instagram to quote unquote prove something.

I know I have nothing to prove really. I know I can do it. I'm currently looking to get back into school since I had to take some time off from college for mental health treatment. Music has been so amazing at helping me process things and start to feel like myself again. I wrote a lot of poetry and treatment that I want to set to music, so that's a big motivator. I'm starting piano lessons in June and I'm studying music theory till then. Any advice? What else should I study to help better myself? I've flown

the rainbow of different self-love practices, but how can I practice the art of patience? Sincerely, Allie. Hi, Allie. Hi, it's good to see you. This is Maren Morris, our special guest today. Perfect timing for your question. Yeah, I mean, it's a great question because I think patience is the hardest thing for me to deal with because I'm just so type A when it becomes about like my decision making and like, how do I get here? Let's spring into action. Just like the thought of waiting on something is so frustrating. But I think it's amazing that like at this age, you've discovered these new lanes of like creativity and therapy also. I mean, I cannot play the piano, I can barely play the guitar. But like if I didn't have that tool to write songs to, I know there

are people that can write songs without playing an instrument, but I just find it so helpful and like really liberating to not have to rely on someone else to play the music for you. So I think it's amazing that you've like, you have lessons plans. Yeah. And then music theory thing is also like so helpful, especially if you're getting into piano, music theory will really help you with that. I'm like more ear trained with guitar, but yeah, I mean, I think it's wonderful. But I think when I give advice to songwriters, the word patience is always the first thing I say. It's because there are so many people,

I don't know if you're wanting to do this professionally or just have it for your own tool of healing. But yeah, I just think like giving yourself the time to experience life and be able to write through it and also like give yourself those days where like allow yourself to write something terrible. Like that is so important is to like tell yourself this is not a reflection of my talent. Some days I will write something that is so unlistenable to anyone but me. And that's okay.

Like I got it out of the pipe, but like something greater is behind it, hopefully. So yeah, like dare to suck. Write a bad song, write like a shit piece of poetry and just be like, okay, that's off. On to the next one. I also think on the subject of patience, I have no patience either.

I have to work very, very hard at my patience. But I understand that impulse to want to share something that you think is great. But as a 22-year-old artist, you have so much room to grow. And I know that's not what you want to hear, because you think you're great now, right? But you're only going to get greater. You're only going to get better at your craft as you age

and as you experience more and more songwriting and you sing more and you learn the piano and you learn and you get to know yourself in a better way as an artist. So when you're holding, when you have that impulse to share, I have to put this on social, I have to put this on social, sometimes you should. And sometimes if you just wait a day, wait like 24 hours, like start to train your brain,

this is gonna be a big favor to you as you get older as an artist. Wait a minute and digest it and then listen to it again then the next day and think, is this really something I wanna put out there? Because you're only gonna get better at what you do, so why not wait and make sure that it's as good as it can get before you share everything that's happening?

Yeah, I think that's really important because we do live in this culture of like, if I made something, I have to put it out there for everyone to see. And especially as you're this baby artist, like, that can be intimidating, to say the very least, of, you know, putting something in front of people. And I think there's power in allowing it to be for yourself for a little while and nurture

yourself and let yourself grow. Yeah, I love all those sentiments. I have, with the urges, it's like this urge to show the process and how much I've improved, but really, I, I like what you were saying about, like, sitting on it and then also writing the bad music, like, it's all, like, a part of the process. It is. And you should write that down. Just write, wait, on a nice, like, index card or piece of paper. I put it on your mirror. And then really think it through. Don't do things like, listen, I am a very impulsive person, but I've learned over the years, and it took me a long time to learn this. So you're 22, so if you can take this advice

and really stick with it, you're gonna be even more successful than you would have been had you not taken advice. But wait, whenever you have an impulse, just seriously sleep on it, look at it again in the morning, and if you feel the same way, then sure, put it out. But just don't do things by like the seat of your pants.

It's just not as productive as people think it is. Yeah. And Ali, Ali, like I will tell you a quick story about how I have auditioned for every single talent show that's on television. Like when I was a teenager, my mom dragged me to American Idol, Star Search, America's Got

Talent, The Voice. They all said no. I moved to Nashville when I was 23 just to write songs for other artists. I didn't get a record deal until I was 26. So, thank God I didn't make it onto any of those shows because I was so corny and not ready, like not ready to be seen on a public level by any means. And I just wouldn't have handled it well. But by the time I was like 25 ish 26, I was like, okay, I know what my sound is. And that's after also like 15 years of touring, but I was like, it took me a second to learn from other writers in Nashville, like how

to write songs and how to collaborate. So yeah, just like that was my patience lesson was thank God all these shows said absolutely not to me because now I think I'd be I'd be cringing and like trying to scrub it from the internet. So it happens when it happens. Yeah. Yeah. I'm really relieved to hear that because like I kind of am sitting on that too because like I have her just to like sign up for like, you know, those shows they were talking about. And it's, I just want to wait like till I am like feeling fully confident. Yes. Yeah. Wait for that. It's coming. It's coming your way. I promise. And Marion, you bring up a really good point about collaboration, too.

I would love to see you, Allie, as you're getting started in this, find yourself a community of musicians. Find one or two other people who you can jam with, run things by, because it is such a collaborative process. And as far as posting stuff, it's not to say you can't be recording, because I think that's a great idea, to be your progress as you go, but like don't feel pressure to post right now. Thank you.

That's really good to hear. Oh, well good luck with everything. Thanks for calling in. Thank you for giving all the experience. Yeah, of course. We'll check in with you in six months, okay? Okay, thank you so much. Awesome. Thanks, Allie. You guys, I would review that as an A plus call.

Call and deliver. Great, great advice from an actual musician, a successful musician, and me. Me. Okay, we're gonna take a break. We're gonna take a break and come back and say goodbye to Mary Morris. Please tag me for the special because I get so many tags about my books, but I'm not getting as many about my special and my special is the newest thing out so I

want to make sure all my ardent fans are watching it and tagging me and I'll repost you and yes it's called The Feeling. I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone. Most of all, his wife, Caroline. He texted, I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me. Caroline's husband was living another life

behind the scenes. He betrayed his oath to his family and to his community. She said you left bruises, pulled her hair, that type of thing. No. How far would Joel go to cover up what he'd done? You're unable to keep track of all your lies, and quite frankly, I question how many other women may bring forward allegations in the future. This season of betrayal investigates one officer's

decades of deception, lies that left those closest to him questioning everything they thought they knew. Listen to Betrayal on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Camp Shane, one of America's longest running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. Campers who began the summer in heavy bodies were often unrecognizable when they left.

In a society obsessed with being thin, it seemed like a miracle solution. But behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children was a dark underworld of sinister secrets. Kids were being pushed to their physical and emotional limits as the family that owned Shane turned a blind eye. Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie. In this eight-episode series we're unpacking and investigating stories of mistreatment and re-examining the culture of fat phobia that enabled a flawed system to continue for so long.

You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad-free on iHeart True Crime Plus. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today. Made for This Mountain is a podcast that exists to empower listeners to rise above their struggles, break free from the chains of trauma, and silence the negative voices that have kept them small. Through raw conversations, real stories, and actionable guidance, you can learn to face

the mountain that is in front of you. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify, the thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain, this is the struggle, this is the thing that's in front of me. You can't make that mountain move without actually diving into May is mental health awareness month, a time to conquer the things that once felt impossible and step boldly into the best version of

yourself to awaken the unstoppable strength that's inside of us all. So tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional well being and climb your personal mountain because it's impossible for you to be the most authentic you. It's impossible for you to love you fully. If all you're doing is living to please people, your mountain is that. Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. To most people, I'm the girl behind voiceover, the movement that exploded in 2024. Voiceover is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's more than personal, it's political,

it's societal, and at times, it's far from what I originally intended it to be. These days, I'm interested in expanding what it means to be voiceover, to make it customizable for anyone who feels the need to explore their relationship to relationships. I'm talking to a lot of people who will help us think about how we love each other. It's a very, very normal experience to have times where a relationship is prioritizing other parts of that relationship that are being naked together.

How we love our family. I've spent a lifetime trying to get my mother to love me, but the price is too high. And how we love ourselves. Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. Listen to VoiceOver on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back with Maren Morris. I want to just read a quote before we say goodbye to Maren. This is with her new album, Dreamsicle, as comes out May 9th on all platforms. And this is an album quote from Maren that I want to read. Dreamsicle takes place in the aftermath of loosening my grip on my personal and professional life,

sweeping through the pits of grief, but never staying too long, and finding the joy in knowing that at my core, I'm still who I am, and that's pretty fucking great. No monster in the mirror, no shame late in decade or unraveling what happened, just acceptance, release, and the reclaiming of how strong I've always been, with no need to dim or water down its essence any longer.

Dreamsicle became less about the hard lessons and more about enjoying the bumpy ride and finding people who genuinely want to be on it with you because they love you. It's about appreciating and respecting the beauty and nuances of life while it's happening, not after it's too late. That's really beautiful.

And I wanted to share that with all of our listeners. Oh, thank you. The spirit of your album. Yeah, I would say so. And I wrote that like three months ago. So I'm like, I'm glad I still feel this way. Yeah, I think it's just, it's so tough to like put work out and be like, is this like your magnum opus?

Like you just can't think about that. You just have to write what you're going through and have the stones to put it out and be received and loved and critiqued and hated and all the shit. But it's like, you have to get it out of your body and your mind. And I think, yeah, there is such a release in that and not feeling like tethered to the past

or the like practice of nostalgia and just truly being able to enjoy something while you're still in it. Yeah, I mean, let's circle back when I'm 40 and I'll revisit that quote, but I feel proud of it. You should feel proud of it. I'm proud of you and I don't even, I don't say that in a patronizing mother, maternal way.

I just mean from woman to woman, I'm proud. Well, same. I'm gonna try and catch you on tour. The tour starts July 12th and shows she's doing US, Europe and UK. So get your tickets at marimaris.com and I'm going to come find you, Marin, and come to one of your shows.

Yes. I know you saw me at the pink show, but this will be our stage. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, we'll be back. So nice speaking with you today. Thank you. Yeah, thank you for having me. Have a great day. Y'all too. Bye everyone.

Okay, my remaining dates for Vegas. There are remaining dates for this year. Summertime is coming and I will be in Vegas at the Cosmo doing my residency on July 5th, will be the next date that I'm there, July 5th, August 30th, and then November 1st and 29th. November 1st and November 29th. I will be in Las Vegas at the Cosmo

performing Inside Myself at the Chelsea. It's called Chelsea at the Chelsea for a reason. Okay, thank you. Do you want advice from Chelsea? Write into dearchelseapodcast at gmail.com. Find full video episodes of Dear Chelsea on YouTube by searching at Dear Chelsea Pod. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert, executive producer, Catherine Law. And be sure to check out our merch at chelseyhandler.com. I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast Betrayal.

Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone. Most of all, his wife, Caroline. He texted, I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me. How far would he go to cover up what he'd done? The fact that you lied is absolutely horrific. And quite frankly, I question how many other women are out there that may bring forward allegations in the future.

Listen to Betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Made for This Mountain podcast exists to empower listeners to rise above their inner struggles and face the mountain in front of them. So during Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional well-being, and then climb that mountain. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify, the thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain. This is the struggle. Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. I'm also the girl behind voiceover the movement that exploded in 2024

You might hear that term and think it's about celibacy But to me voiceover is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's flexible It's customizable and it's a personal process Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. No. Listen to voiceover on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times big economic forces

show up in our lives in small ways. Four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up, So now I only buy one. Small but important ways. From tech billionaires to the bond market to, yeah, banana pudding. If it's happening in business, our new podcast is on it. I'm Max Chastin.

And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. So listen to everybody's business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast.