Dear Chelsea - The Fire Inside with Rachel Morrison

Episode Date: December 26, 2024

Director and cinematographer Rachel Morrison joins Chelsea to talk about why actors are usually not Olympic athletes, the importance of telling your story, and overcoming the obstacles in her way… by just ignoring them.  Then:  A silent caller seeks help in the bedroom.  A wife wonders how to save her second marriage. And a mom struggles with the decision to have a second baby after a tricky diagnosis.   * Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail] * Executive Producer Catherine Law Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert * * * * * The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hi, Chelsea. Hi, how are you? I'm good. I'm good. I'm just all cozy from the holiday. I know. It's so nice. I spent Christmas alone this year, and I cannot say enough good things about it. That sounds wonderful.

I'm on my way to New York because I have shows in New Orleans and Atlanta this weekend. And then I'm going to come right back to Whistler, but I'm going to party it up in New Orleans and Atlanta. And I had no family come this year. I have some nieces and girls coming in a few days when I get back. But it is, I spent the holiday reading a book by myself in front of the fire. I almost masturbated. I was so excited. How's the skiing been this year? Skiing has been great. We've got a lot of snow this year. Action packed. Lots of skiing. Lots of skiing. I'm on day 10, 11 of skiing. Amazing. Amazing. I'm on day 10, 11 of skiing. Amazing. Amazing.

I don't ski every day, but I ski pretty, I ski, you know, like four to four or five days a week. Great. Well, our guest today is somebody that you have actually met before. Yes, I have, which I hadn't known. She is a cinematographer and a director of the very new passionate film, The Fire Inside. She was also the first female cinematographer nominated for an Academy Award for Mudbound. And now she is directing her own movie. She was also the cinematographer on Fruitvale Station, which was another great movie. And she was the first woman to lens a Marvel movie. The first woman to lens a Marvel movie, which was Black Panther.

So she is now directing her own film. This is her debut. Please welcome Rachel Morrison. Rachel Morrison, welcome. Thank you. Thanks for having me. You as you just you walked into my house and I said, Oh, it's so nice to meet you. And then you reminded me that I was like, I was an operator on your show a million years ago. How funny. Was it after lately? After lately? Oh, after lately. Oh, okay. That was fun.

It was fun. Yeah, After Lately. Oh, okay. That was fun. It was fun. Yeah, that was ridiculous. It was totally ridiculous. And it was so long ago, I literally called Brian Burgoyne, my dear friend, and was like, was I the DP? Was I an operator? He was like, well, I was the DP.

And he was like an Abbey and so and so were the operators. So I must have maybe day played more than- Or maybe you were the director and you just don't even remember. Very possible. I think I would remember. Well, you've obviously accomplished a lot since then. So I want to talk about it because I just watched your newest movie. Well, this is your first directorial debut movie. It is my first feature. Yes. So you were originally

a cinematographer. I'd like to think I'm still a cinematographer. I happen to be a moonlighting as a director at the moment. Well, you were the first woman to get nominated for an Academy Award as a cinematographer. That did happen. And that was for Mudbound. Yes. And then you were the first woman to get nominated for an Academy Award as a cinematographer. That did happen. And that was for Mudbound. Yes. And then you were also the cinematographer on Fruitvale Station. True. All films that have a very specific look to them. And this movie, A Fire Inside, is based on a real life boxer.

Her name is Clarissa... Shields. Shields. And she's from Flint, Michigan. And what I really loved for starters about the movie was that the end of the movie wasn't where the end of the movie should be. Where you're used to seeing the triumph at the end and you focus. And while there is triumph at the end, the big kind of crescendo of the movie isn't what you would think would

be the end of the movie. Inspirational sports movies have a real construct. We're so used to, you know, you sort of start from nowhere, you work really hard, you have a setback, you work even harder, and then you win and the credits roll. And this is not that because life is not that. And I think that to me was what was so exciting and interesting about this film is like, Clarissa is this badass. She's resilient.

She's all the things, but not just inside the ring, outside the ring too. And the story doesn't end with the win. It really asks, which I think is also much more like real life, like what happens after the win, especially if you are not Michael Phelps. And what does happen after the win? So she wins. She gets a gold medal at the Olympics. How old is she? 17 years old? 17. Right. So she trains. It's that coming up story. She busts her

ass. She's from a family that doesn't have a lot of money. Her mom is kind of not really present. She's raising her siblings. And she meets this coach. And obviously, they have that bond. And then they get to the Olympics and they win the gold medal. And then what happens after she wins the gold medal is a very, it's pretty devastating to watch, but probably way more common than any of us know. So what was your experience researching that? Yeah, well, I mean, I was fortunate to have a lot of archival material and have Clarissa. I mean, this is a woman who's very much alive and well and has opinions in all the best ways. And like for me, it was incredibly important to try to do justice to the authenticity of her experience and the story and of Flint as a community. So I leaned heavily into what really happened.

But yeah, there was this idea that, you know, if that winning would be enough, that if she could just get the gold, then endorsements would follow and that, you know, money would come and all of these things. And, you know, that wasn't what panned out for her. I mean, I think that the reality of being Black, female, and from a community that's, you know, not seen as often as other communities, like, you know, she had to sort of work twice as hard and as you know kind of come back pick herself back up and eventually get noticed again i do think even you know even in in real life like as i think for most of us you don't get to stay on top right like that's not how the real world works so even had those things come you still have to find it you know get up the next day and and make breakfast and figure out what's next and we're also talking about boxing as a female sport, which is, you know, which was

at the time, not, I think it's a hard thing to sell as a woman who's, as she says in the movie, stop telling everyone you want to beat the shit out of other people. That's your motivation. And that's your impetus. They're like, that's not going to, you're not going to be on a cereal box cover by saying that and declaring that they wanted her to be more feminine, even this whole other lens of you know what it's like to be a female cinematographer or a female athlete and how you present yourself and how you look and all of these other things so it's like you have to jump through a bunch more hoops and then in her case yeah it was a sport that people don't expect women in they don't necessarily want to see women punching each other like and so she was she is she's one of the absolute best and you still, by all accounts, not known the way that she should be.

Hopefully the film will start to change that. Yeah, I think so, definitely. How do you feel about your role as impacted by certain setbacks or sexism or any of the things we all kind of face being a female in a male-dominated industry? I mean, I've always tried not to let the noise overwhelm me or the lack thereof, right? Like it's more like you never know

why your phone doesn't ring. Then like, I can't speak to the most acute experiences of being treated a certain way. I can't speak to the most acute experiences of, you know, being treated a certain way. I can speak to people not expecting you to be in the powerful position that you're in. So like sitting in a van on the way to the, it was the pickup set of Black Panther and, you know, the teamster gets in and it was me and the AD who's also female. And, and, you know, he's like, we were running late and we're like, we gotta go, we gotta go. And he's like, I'm waiting for the DP and the first AD.

I'm like, who do you think we are? Like, what? And that's kind of more, my experience has been people looking past me for the dissident photographer, expecting me to be the AC. But beyond that, I really tried not to ever let that, if you let that get you down, you can't just focus on making good work. I think I've always just tried to keep my head in the work itself. And I think to that extent, I think we're all ready to just let it be about the work, right?

Like we don't want to be the female cinematographer or the female boxer. Like she's the best athlete. She really is. She's that good. And so to be able to start talking about Carissa as a boxer, a female boxer or me as a director not a female director like that female comedian or a female comedian exactly like that's the next step is just you know we want to get to the place where like I think we're starting hopefully to like when you say doctor you don't picture a man and like it'll be real nice when you say director

and people don't picture a man or you say pilot pilot all of it right for all of it yeah um what was the phrasing for her directing the it was it was exactly that the phrasing on like wikipedia or one of these things about being the first oh the first woman to to lens a marvel movie that's how they described you the first female to lens a marvel and it's nice when you hear first female like that's nice together because you're like oh i've i've done something for the first time but then after I understand I think they're two probably separate points because they can belabor that because I remember when I was had my late night show people all the people ever asked me what about was what's it like to be the only woman in late night and I was like that's not what I'm thinking about do you think that's what I'm thinking about yeah being the

I'm not even paying attention to those guys I'm sitting here coming every day trying to make a funny show. Like if imagine if I got mired in all of that nonsense, I would be not productive at all. So I can that's exactly it. Yeah. And I do encourage women in general, like we all I mean, it sucks, right? Like it is not an even playing field. But if you get mired in it, then it's hard to actually get through it and make the great work, tell the great jokes. Like, you just almost have to just slough it off. And then, you know, hopefully people one day will stop putting us in boxes. So how did you decide to do that?

How did you decide to put the kind of crescendo of the movie in a different place? Well, so the script is written by Barry Jenkins. Incredible Barry Jenkins. Incredible, yeah. so the script is written by Barry Jenkins, incredible Barry Jenkins. And it came to it actually, Alicia Holmes, our producer brought the documentary T-Rex about Clarissa in that 2012, 16, 17 years of age, that timeframe to Barry, Barry wrote the script, and then they brought it to me. And that was part of what excited me about it was that it didn't end where you would expect it to, you know, I think the idea of making an inspirational sports movie, like, great, who doesn't love one, but you also you really really do they have such a they have such a format

and so I was excited you know the studio obviously was scared like it is very scary to to do the opposite of what everybody typically does in any you know in any shape a format to break a format you know and there's certainly that feeling of like, after this major crescendo in the wind, like, how do you get people to reinvest? Because I think they're so they're like, is it feels a little early to be over, but like, it's, you know, and it's not. And then they sort of have to understand, as was her experience, what it's like to sort of have to, you know, what do I dream about now? What do I live for now, all of these things and kind of get back up off off their feet along with Clarissa. But I really loved that about the project. And I just think her story deserves to be out in the

world. You know, for me, making a biopic about somebody who's famous already, okay, great. But like, tell a story that deserves to be known and deserves to be told and actually people don't know is much more, for me, a much more valuable use of my time and my skills, I guess. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of heartbreaking, the idea of being an athlete and having this kind of expiration date also. It's a different kind of lifestyle than, I guess, for a while, women who were actresses didn't think they were going to get work over 40, but that's not true anymore. You know, people are peaking in their 40s and 50s. You know, some people are working more than ever. But sports especially is an industry where you think where there is an exit, there is a time you have to retire, there is a time where you can no longer perform your sport. And then you have to

think about what else you're going to do. But to the thought of peaking and then not being able to maintain that and almost giving up and then returning to the sport is more of an original storyline. Yeah, and I think that that's what's so, like for me, it's so powerful and so relatable. Like, you know, we can all look at these incredible athletes, but we don't necessarily relate to them, right? Like when you see a movie about somebody

who's a legendary anything, right? But to actually see somebody who, like I think there are so many different ways into this film, you know, and one of them is, like, we all know what it's like to get knocked down and then, like, to have to pick yourself back up and find a purpose.

I mean, in some ways, I think it's really, it becomes, I would say the message is almost, like, about it being the journey, not the destination, which is such a great message for a life, right? And also not to let the disillusionment, not to get so disillusioned with something that's not going at the pace that you expected it to go. You know, like when you face something and it's not happening with the speed and in the way that you imagined, not being attached to the outcome that

you imagined, knowing that the outcome can change and the goalposts can change. Exactly. You know, and then, I mean, obviously then it really is specifically Clarissa and Jason, like what they very specifically endured in terms of just, you know, coming from a community that has been really overlooked and to transcend all of that, like it's such a testament to them. And Jason's still, he's still coaching, volunteer coaching kids at Burstyn Fieldhouse every day, Monday through Friday, like 6 p.m. And he's just a good human.

And so also to be able to, you know, now there's a movie about him and like he deserves it, right? And Carissa, of course. And I think it's a more relatable version of a sports movie than probably most. Has there ever been a time within your professional career or life where you had any sort of disillusionment that could compare to that? Where you thought about giving up? I'm not giving up. But I mean, in some ways, I'm in this seat because we're gonna be honest, like after the Oscar nomination and Black Panther and being the first at all these things,

I think I had the same idea that like the scripts were just going to come, you know, and that I was going to have the rest of my cinematography career laid out for me. And the reality is some of it is our industry shifting. So like all the movies that I had wanted to tell, which were big, like dramatic films, the hundred million dollar dramas, they don't really get made anymore. I got to the target too late. There's so few directors who get to work in that space. You know, maybe Denis Villeneuve and Nolan and like a few people get to make $100 million dramas effectively. But the rest are superhero movies, which isn't really what I set out to do. So there was a bit of a like, oh, wait, I did all the things. And here I am. And my future isn't clear. And that was where, you know, I'd been entertaining the idea of directing. It had really been the Ryan Cooglers and the Rick Famayuas who,

you know, who I did dope with, like who have always sort of said, you should be out there directing. You have stories to tell. You have a vision for those stories, like kind of trying to push me out into the arena. And I was nervous. Like that wasn't what I, I came up always with the camera, like, and that was my safety net, right? I was behind the Like that wasn't what I, I came up always with a camera. Like, and that was my safety net, right? I was behind the scenes. I'm supporting, I'm like the supporting cast and I'm happy there. And so to suddenly be out like in front of all of it

was really terrifying to me. But at the same time, I just, I didn't want to, yeah, sit there waiting for something that wasn't gonna come. And I was like, I'd rather start over and push myself in a new way and learn again and all of these things. So I guess, yeah, there's a lot that sort of my journey in some ways, you know, mirrors Clarissa's a little bit. I think everyone's does, you know, it's just a matter of what, in what way. Have you had a mentor, like someone that you kind

of? I actually haven't. I think there's also this assumption with especially women that we've all been like, we came up under somebody. I see so many people who approach me and are like you know giving me their cards and asking to do the thing and I never actually had I was never brave enough to do that so I because of that and also I didn't it didn't come up as an AC I did do some operating such as on your show but like I I the biggest sets I was ever on were my own. I had never been on a set as big as Black Panther in any capacity until I got the job. Yeah. I mean, that would be intimidating. It was terrifying, exciting, but terrifying.

Yeah. You know, I came, I love this mentor conversation because like, I never had a mentor either. I never had somebody that I could like bounce ideas off of, or someone that guided my career or helped me. And I blame that person for all of my missteps because it would have been really nice. Like I have a really close girlfriend who's a CEO and she's been in this role for many years. She hops around to different companies and just like cleans them up and creates equity in all these organizations. And she's got all these mentors, you know, wherever we go out together, she's like, oh, this is my mentor for the last 15 years. This is my, this is who I call when I'm about to, when I'm considering whether or not to take a job. And I'm like, oh, I go, that doesn't really exist in our industry.

Or did it just not happen for me? You know, because your careers can be so singular, you know, none of them are, not all of them are comparable. And the way people kind of, your hustle has to create the opportunities, you know, this kind of inveterate hustle that we all have to adopt and be like, okay, we're ready for anything. We can do anything. Yeah. And you're just kind of instilling your own self-esteem

and competence into yourself. A little bit, it's true. And like, I think, you know, now I have like a manager who's amazing, but I think also being a multi-hyphenate, it is, you know, because I'm moving between these different spaces, like I have, I have DP agents and I have directing agents and they don't even necessarily know each other, you know, and you're just kind of making your way in the world and hoping you don't screw anything up too bad. Right. But I mean, also to your point, I think

having a general sense of like, yeah, you kind of have to just turn in and like trust your own instinct. And when you make a mistake, try to grow from it. Yeah. Yeah. It's easy. It's easier said than done sometimes. Like when we fall down, you know, it's easier. It's nice to be able to always remember that in those difficult moments that it's okay. It's not going to last forever. This is just like a pitfall on your way. And that that's required for any sort of trajectory is just like a pitfall on your way. And that that's required for any sort of trajectory is to have several pitfalls. It's true. But I would take a mentor. You offering? I know, I know. I'm like, no, this is an episode called We Need Mentors. We need more female mentors. The movie is called A Fire Inside. It's absolutely fantastic. I loved watching it.

I love the originality of the way you arranged everything. We're going to take a break and we'll be right back with Rachel Morrison. Inside you, two wolves are locked in battle. One thrives on fear and anger and doubt. The other, courage,, every moment feeds one of them. I'm Eric Zimmer, host of The One You Feed. I've been there, homeless, addicted, and lost. I know the power of small choices to turn your life around.

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It's Questo. Questlove. And Team Supreme and I have been working hard to bring you some incredible episodes of Questlove Supreme with guests you definitely don't want to miss. Now, one of the things I love about this Questlove Supreme podcast is we got something for everybody, every type of musical ever. We enjoy speaking to the people who are the face of some movements,

some people you've seen on stage or TV or magazine covers, but we also love speaking to the folks who are making it happen behind the scenes and we pave the way for those that followed. You know, keystones to the culture. This season, we've had some amazing one-on-one conversations, like I'm Pete Bill chatting up with hitmaker Sam Holland, Sugar Steve chatting with the legend Nick Lowe, and I've had pleasures of doing one-on-one conversations

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You know, since it takes place in Flint and the water crisis and everything that happened there, you guys didn't really touch upon that. Well, so the movie takes place before the water crisis came to light. So, you know, you have the underpinnings, and that's why we referenced, like, milk tastes like water anyhow, and, like, you see sort of the water plant in the background, and the idea was that you sort of feel it

quite literally bubbling under the surface. But it wasn't, nobody knew yet. So, and it was, we stayed in 2012 and 2014 is when I really came to it. Okay, that makes sense. And the other thing, can we just say one more thing? I just want to shout out to Ryan Destiny, my lead actress, who's just incredible in the film. And does every single one of her own stunts. And just like, I feel like is,

I just can't wait to see for the world to see what, you know, what she becomes. How did you come about casting her? We were looking for athletes who could act and actors who are athletic and found that more often than not, it's like pointing in the opposite directions, right? Like you go into theater school

if you don't do sports and vice versa. So I finally had to give up the dream of finding my perfect Olympic athlete who was also a transformative actress. And Ryan came into the room and just was undeniable as a dramatic performer. She really, the fight scene with Jason in the hallway was like the scene that I just saw the movie in that one performance. And so I was like, well, we're going to teach her how to box. And sure enough, like amazingly, six months of solid training and nutrition and all the things. But she transformed. And again, every stunt was her.

Wow. That's amazing. Yeah, she's really powerful even when she's like not saying anything. Yeah, just that look on her face and in her eyes. She has a very powerful presence. Yeah, for sure. Well, our first question comes from Chris. It's a little bit of a dating and rejection question. Perfect. Chris says, Dear Chelsea, first things

first, your podcast is amazing. I just adore you and the authenticity you bring to each episode. I make frequent drives from Portland to my hometown in New York, and your podcast has made these far more tolerable. Hopefully not Portland, Oregon. That's a really long fucking drive. That's what really long fucking drive. That's what I was thinking. I'm like, maybe it's Maine. I'm writing because I'm having a hard time with being single lately.

I've been single for about five years now and I've been okay with that, but I do miss having a boyfriend. I found out recently from working with a therapist that I place somewhere on the autism spectrum. So naturally that's led to some insecurity when meeting guys I like. Also, the gay community is quite small where I live. So sometimes it feels like the pressure is on when you meet a good one.

I did about a year ago, but he stopped seeing me right after our first argument. He clearly wasn't the guy for me, but it still crushed me into sadness, so much so that it felt like withdrawal. I guess my question is, what are your tips for handling rejection? How do you think it's best to help yourself bounce back when you're in those sad spells? I'd love to be able to be sad for less time when rejection happens. Thanks so much for reading. Have a beautiful day, Chris.

I look at rejection as a one step closer to success. Every rejection you get is one step closer to finding what you want. And I think you have to rearrange your whole attitude towards rejection. It is not the end of the world. It is not a death. It is a pointer in a different direction. It is telling you this didn't work out. Don't give up. Don't give up. But you know, it's down the line. Like you can't take rejection that seriously. Somebody you broke up with after one argument that tells

you everything you need to know. That's not your person. You got that. So don't focus on the rejection part. Focus on the fact that you got through that person in a quick way and that the next person hopefully is coming sooner now since you got this guy out of the way. You know what? If it takes you five people to meet the right one, now you're one person closer to meeting that person. That's how I look at rejection. I like that attitude. And I think the other thing is just double down on the things you love, like, you know, and on yourself, right? So if it's seeing the ocean or boxing or whatever it is, to get through things, for me anyway, when it's hard, it's like I have to just really invest in the things that I know make me happy. And then, you know, you open your eyes again and you're

fine. And also a reminder of like, you you know the reason why people write down gratitude lists is to remind yourself of all the things in your life that you are happy about so that you don't harp so much on the negative and that you can focus on the positive so start doing that just write 10 things down every morning when you wake up you know when i'm in a funk i always do that because i'm like get yourself out of your own ass you know it's not that bad here are all the things that are going great. And that's always a kind of a good reminder and a good wake up call for you if you're feeling bad about yourself and your dating life. Like, don't take that aspect of things so seriously. Like, you're going to survive until you find your person. It's not an emergency. Don't rush it. And focus on all the other positives.

Yeah. And in the list the other positives. Yeah. And in the list making category, I think it's great to like write down what you want in a partner. All the positive things that you foresee like in a partner for yourself is awesome. And just to touch on the autism point as well. Like, oh, yes, I want to say something about that as well. Well, just that that's a whole that's a great bonus to listen. People on the spectrum give us so much more information than we would have had without having all these people on the spectrum.

It is a gift. So don't look at it as a negative. That's another positive. You're unique. You have something that most people don't have. I was reading this thing on autism. I'm like, oh my God, it was so beautifully written about the contributions that autistic people have made to our society to make us look at ourselves

and look at the things that we don't know. And like your specialties and your skill sets are way superior than ours, you know, in certain areas. All of that stuff is awesome. That's also a good thing. Like start thinking about that as a good thing, not as a bad thing. Yeah. And especially in relationships, like I have a family member who is on the spectrum and people think about it as being like, oh, maybe you wouldn't have the same kind of relationship. No, he has the most deeply felt, beautiful relationship with his partner. And like, I think it's like you said, absolutely a boon and something that's unique and special about it. And it's also when you can identify that you're on the spectrum of autism. Now, you know what your strengths are,

what your weaknesses are in relation to autism. And then that is a great way to figure out who a good partner for you is going to be. It's like getting a personality assessment. So like all of these things are good things. So start celebrating your life. Get after it. Yeah. Well, our next caller is Amanda. Brad, we'll start with Amanda, I think, since she can talk. We'll go with her first. So, dear Chelsea, I write today feeling so defeated. I listen to your podcast every week and I'm really enjoying your couples minisodes. I would love it if my husband would join for couples counseling with Chelsea, but I'd settle for him just going to therapy locally.

But he won't agree to that and that's part of the problem. It's the second marriage for both of us. I had just come off my second train wreck long-term relationship after my divorce and was quite attracted to him as someone who had their life together and who seemed very honest and reliable, all still true. What's the issue then? Well, we seem to have a major problem with conflict resolution and conflict in general, especially when drinking is involved. The smallest issue can go from a level two to three to a nine or ten in minutes. For example, a few weeks ago, we had friends over and we were drinking and playing games. My daughter had just had oral surgery and he makes a joke about her appearance, not even a funny one worth repeating. She had a really swollen face and was still in a lot of pain,

so I found his comment to be super offensive and out of line. Luckily, she didn't hear it, but I glared at him and then later said something via text like, You're really showing your true colors. I regret texting anything and will own my part in the escalation. Instead of just apologizing for the remark, which I wish he would have done in the first place and I wouldn't have texted anything, he says I'm the problem here, that I should know better than to think he would try to hurt my feelings or my daughter's. I let him know that I don't think that was his goal, but it was certainly the outcome. He upped the ante, saying I really didn't know him and I'm attacking his character.

Fights always end with him saying we're done. Sometimes he'll send me a note from his phone with a divorce settlement. Well, his rendition of it. He does this sort of thing often. We both have hypersensitivity when it comes to our kids. And just to clarify, none of them are shared kids. They're from the previous relationships, which is understandable to a degree. Marriage is hard, but blended families and second marriages are even harder. Any insight on what I can do to help on my end is welcome. I want to know I'm putting in my full effort and dedication as the last thing I want my end is welcome. I want to know I'm putting in my full effort and dedication as the last thing I want in life is another divorce. Amanda.

Hi, Amanda. Hi, Chelsea. Hi. This is our special guest today, Director Rachel Morrison. Hi, Amanda. Hello. Hi, hi, hi. Okay, so how long have you guys been married?

Just shy of two years now. Okay, sounds like your communication is not where it needs to be. You sending a text saying you're really showing your true colors is not how you start a conversation that's going to be a constructive one. So you have to kind of take responsibility for your behavior too. You're married, right? I am. Okay.

I'm not married for a good reason, but I understand like communication and within relationships and how important it is to set the tone. Because if you want him to act in a more responsible way and not threaten divorce in every argument or send you like texts like that, like all of that is just such immature, silly behavior. But it takes two of you to participate in that. So I would say he, you said he refuses to go to counseling. Yeah. I mean, he hasn't said it a hundred percent. No, but he, he always comes with an excuse. Like we don't need to spend the money on that. You know, we don't, we don't need to take our time for that. Both of which we have, he just doesn't, he just doesn't want to put in the time or money to be honest. Has he ever done any therapy for himself?

No. No, no, no, no, no. Yeah, it doesn't sound like it. I would really try very hard to have a very rational, calm, loving conversation because it sounds like you guys are already in a habit of triggering each other and kind of saying mean or nasty things. And it's very judgmental. That doesn't go over

well if you're both dishing it back and forth. So I would try really hard to go at him in a really calm when you're not drinking and say, listen, I think the way we talk to each other could really improve. I think if we want to make this marriage work, I know I want to make this marriage work. If you really want to make this marriage work and we can have more cohesive, balanced relationship where we're not sending each other nasty texts, totally take responsibility for your part. Do not make it seem like it's all about him. This is a relationship, so it's about both of you.

But that you really think it would be a wise investment to go to therapy. Like, I don't, him threatening you with divorce is not a relationship. That's not fair. You have to be able to argue and talk about difficult emotions without acting like it's over and or childlike. Yeah.

Yeah, I agree. I'm glad you pointed out, though. That's probably part of why I wrote in like what I'm doing, because I know I'm not innocent in this and I know that I do trigger him. And sometimes I even know like what I'm going to say that's going to set him off. And then I hate myself for doing it because I hate the whole spiral, you know,

the whole evening's ruined and et cetera. Of course, nobody wants that. But that's what's so nice. Like if, if you can, cause sometimes I feel like people don't even know what they're saying no to with therapy.

Like they don't really understand it. And especially couples therapy they think of as like, oh, we're just going to be fighting, you know, in front of somebody as opposed to like this idea that when you're in a calm place and actually being like him hearing you say that you want to take more accountability and vice versa. Maybe there's a way to just sort of paint a picture, a clearer picture to him that like couples there, how useful it can be and why. And that it's not always it's not this contentious thing all the time.

It's not like you're going there to argue. you're going there to figure out how to resolve arguments in real life how to not let them escalate how to not let them get to the point where he's sending you a text with a divorce decree you know you don't want to act like that that's not acting in a loving way so yeah that's a great thing to impress upon him what therapy actually is and the idea that the time investment, if he doesn't want to spend the time, like an hour could save you nights. And it sounds like, you know, days and nights of these like escalated moments that really it's an investment in getting your time back. I love that. That's so true. Like the way to have handled that situation

without saying you're showing your true colors or blah, especially when your daughter didn't even hear it. I understand it's out of line. He shouldn't have said anything. I get that. But the way to have handled that would have been to talk the next morning when you're both sober and calm and go, you know, I just I wanted to just bring this up. Like, I heard what you said about her. And although she didn't hear that, that's hurtful to me. And it would have been really hurtful had she heard it. I would have really appreciate us being like, that's what you'll learn in therapy, how to like talk about things and disagree in a calm way. A disagreement can be an exploration. It doesn't have to be combative. Yeah, exactly. I think he's worried that the therapist and I are going to like gang up on him. Well, that's what

every person who doesn't want to go to therapy is worried about. So he has to get over himself. Yeah. So it requires a get over himself. Yeah. So it requires a degree of him acting like, you know, just stepping up and meeting the moment and stepping up to the situation. But yeah, please just try like and just impress that upon him and have it in a loving way. Don't be accusatory. Don't let it get escalated. If it does get escalated, put a pin in it and just like walk away from the situation

and say, OK, I don't want to fight right now. Let's, we can talk about it another time. Yeah. Another good tip, because that's something I need to work on too. I need to just let it be sometimes. You know, and this is like a very cliche, the old adage that everyone uses, but like, if you want something to change, you need to change. And that's also why therapy is helpful. Your level of self-awareness increases your level of accountability increases do you have you been to couples therapy oh yeah yeah and I mean I did once go with a boyfriend who flipped out when we went to couples therapy I mean he hit the roof he thought for sure that me and my therapist were against him like I hadn't told my therapist

anything about this relationship I hadn't even seen my therapist in years. And I was like, oh, I had hit a crossroads. And my boyfriend just lost his marbles. And, you know, I realized in that moment, it's just it's we're not we're not going to get anywhere. Like it's not going to happen because of his resistance to actually deal with stuff. So if you're dealing with that situation, then that is going to be difficult because then you really have a decision to make. But hopefully you can get him to agree and it won't be like that. And maybe, I mean, what if like he finds the therapist, you know, or like if it feels like it's coming from his court, a friend of his recommends somebody so that it doesn't, you know, it's not your therapist or I don't know if that would help at all.

But that's a really good idea. Definitely had not thought of that. Yeah. And make him part of the decision. Do you want a female? Do you want a male? What kind of what would you prefer? Make it all about, you know, making him comfortable since you're already open to going to therapy. It doesn't really matter where you go, you know? Yeah. Good tips. OK, well, problem solved. You're right. The rest of your marriage. Yeah. Half of the problem is solved. Okay. All right. Keep us posted. I will. Thank you guys.

We like progress reports and updates. We do. We do. And good luck. Thanks, Amanda. Thank you. Thanks, Amanda. Bye.

All right. Well, our next question comes from Lauren. Lauren says, Dear Chelsea, I'm writing because I don't know who else to ask about my dilemma. My wife and I have been married for nearly seven years now, together for 11. We genuinely love each other and are both extremely successful in our careers. Careers tend to take a front seat to everything else, including our non-existent sex life. We've been to therapy in the past, and while it's helped, we haven't resolved our issues. My wife despises oral sex, says it makes her gag. Unfortunately, that's the primary way I've engaged with sexual partners in the past. It's what turns me on the Oh. rest of my life. I've even thought of cheating, which I've never done to any partner, but the lack of feeling desired and the lack of sexual activity has really taken its toll on me.

Hoping you have some advice. Thanks so much, Chelsea. Lauren. Hi, Lauren. Yeah, I'm sorry. My voice is very terrible. That's okay. Oh, sorry that we're straining it by the podcast. Brett, can we get the chat function up on the screen? That is quite a predicament that you're in. It sounds like you need a sex therapist.

Yeah, that's actually a good idea. Like a regular therapist isn't going to be able to kind of bridge this gap. Because if she has that kind of reaction to basically the kind of sex you want to have, then that is, it doesn't sound like it's going to be something you're going to be able to tackle without someone who has experience discussing this. And especially if it sounds like you have some trauma in the past too, like I do think a sex therapist will be really trained in navigating some of the intricacies. Is that, are you, is she open to that? You said she would be open to that? Yeah. I think that's what you need to do because like,

also like I love what you said that careers both of your careers take the front seat but that also is an issue when both people work that hard that always can become an issue because when you are exhausting all of your efforts into one area of your life you don't have a lot of stamina for the other areas of your life and especially if you're getting fulfillment from them I mean they're you know, like there's, I think you start to feel like there's no void, but there obviously is. She's saying that getting her to open up,

she's very private, that getting her to open up would be very difficult. Well, I mean, yeah, it is going to be difficult. And it's also necessary if you want to salvage your marriage. There's really no other option. So you're going to have to get her to like, if she wants to salvage the marriage

and if she's where you are, then that's what you got to do. And there to like, if she wants to salvage the marriage and if she's where you are, then that's what you've got to do. And there may be, I mean, this person, like a therapist might have some more ideas for you in terms of like, do you explore opening things up or do you explore like, what are some other ways to get both of your needs met? But like under the supervision of an expert where it feels like it's safe and contained as opposed to like, right. Yeah. Like a trauma informed sex therapist. Yeah. And have you had individual therapy for what you've been through as well? This is very funny the way we're doing this. Yes, I've been in individual therapy for the past 10 years. Okay, great. That's great. Okay, well, that's your homework. Go find a sex therapist, a trauma-informed sex therapist. All right. Thanks so much, Lauren.

I did want to say, Chelsea, I did bring this out of retirement. Oh, God. Sorry. Oh, my God. She just says, sorry about our president. It was just, this is so nice. The podcast and me performing live are my biggest gifts because I always forget about the fact that our reality is this when I'm recording

or when I'm on stage for those moments I always forget and I feel like we need to update the shirt like you know the you know fool me once like fool me once with you shame on me but like now we need like sorry about my president and our entire country and the makeup of our country and we have to apologize for Elon no actually South Africa has to apologize for Elon Musk And our entire country. And the makeup of our country. And we have to apologize for Elon. No, actually, South Africa has to apologize for Elon Musk. He started there. That's right.

Anyway, good luck with everything. Thank you. How do you think about that in terms of your creative, professional life with the backdrop of what's going on now? I mean, the world? The world being on fire? I mean, you mean the world? The world being on fire? The world is on fire too. Do you have children? I do.

I have two kids. They're six and nine. And they're certainly what keeps me kind of going in the morning and hopefully the future. But it's a really messed up time. And it's like, I feel good that the movie that I'm endorsing right now actually has a messaging that I can stand behind. Like, it's not just creative, like, you know, fodder that's completely escapism and hopefully can sort of move the needle in some way, shape or form.

But yeah, it's, it's, I don't know. It's a, it's, it's hard to like wake up every day and think that like, this is our reality and like to, I mean, I'm terrified of what what the like long-term damage is gonna be what the potential could be what the future will look like because there's a part of me that's like maybe nothing really will happen because they're all so incompetent and then or maybe our institutions are so strong but like whatever he did to our institutions the last time when they took their first beating. Yeah. It's like, are they strong enough to withstand?

I mean, I was at the power breakfast this morning and one of the speakers was a woman in Texas who was forced, who basically, I guess she went into labor at 18 weeks and couldn't get anybody. She went into sepsis. She almost died. The whole like the whole fucking nine. And that's, I mean, that's a result of one term. And I forget what the number of thousands already. That's the result of one term. And here we are in term two.

I'm always looking for anyone to inject some sort of optimism so I can focus on that. It's like the last thing I hear is what I hold on to. Yeah, well, Arizona and I think Florida, if I'm not mistaken, but they actually had stuff on the ballot that was for abortion rights, and they all passed. No, not Florida. Not Florida then.

Florida had a 60% majority, and that's still not enough. They needed 60%, and they were at 57%. Arizona did pass that. Arizona did, yes. So we like that. Yeah. Good job, Arizona. Let's come up with something else optimistic. Well, I think, okay like that. Yeah. Good job, Arizona. Let's come up with something else optimistic. Well, I think, okay. Okay, that's great.

I think, like, as a creative, our jobs are to provide optimism, right? To provide a story that you can hold on to. To provide hope and some sort of hopefulness in the dark. You know? Like, okay. So when I think about my standup or when I think about my books or even the guests that we're having on is the idea that you have to keep chugging away. We can't give up and throw our hands up. That's not an option. That's what they want. They want us to give up. They want us to be like, you know, so browbeaten and desultory in a sense that we have to really just take our jobs more seriously than ever.

Double down. Right? Yeah. You know, in the stories that you tell and the projects that you choose. And to also really double down on helping other women succeed in the business that we're in. I think that's really the most important thing to always remember is that to be mentors, you know, when we didn't have them to become what we didn't have. And I always try and think about that with anyone who comes to me,

I just I want to help them. And I think all women should take that on. Yeah, agreed. Whether you're in a position of power or not, you should be helping other women achieve their goals, achieve their dreams, make sure they're taken care of in whichever ways that you can. Yeah, which really brings us back to the movie because that's exactly what Clarissa did.

You know, she fought for other women athletes as well. Yeah, OG in the parody space. Yeah, that was amazing when she demanded equal... Equal pay for Olympic athletes. Exactly. Okay, we're taking a break and we'll be right back. The other, courage, wisdom, and love. Every decision, every moment feeds one of them.

Which wolf are you feeding? I'm Eric Zimmer, host of The One You Feed. I've been there, homeless, addicted, and lost. I know the power of small choices to turn your life around. On this podcast, I sit down with thinkers, leaders, and survivors to uncover what it takes to feed the good wolf. This podcast saved me. It's like having a guide for the hardest parts of life. The wolves are hungry.

What will you feed them? Listen to The One You Feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 2025 is bound to be a fascinating year. It's going to be filled with money challenges and opportunities. I'm Joel. Ooh, and I am Matt. And we're the hosts of How To Money.

We want to be with you every step of the way in your financial journey this year, offering the information and insights you need to thrive financially. Optimize your retirement accounts so you can retire early. Well, How to Money will help you to change your relationship with money so you can stress less and grow your net worth. That's right. How to Money comes out three times a week, Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, for money advice without the judgment and jargon. Listen to How to Money on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really Know Really podcast, podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. during a spacewalk gives us the answer? We talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you and the one bringing back the woolly mammoth. Plus, does Tom Cruise really do his own stunts? His stuntman reveals the answer. And you never know who's going to drop by. Mr. Bryan Cranston is with us tonight.

How are you, too? Hello, my friend. Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park. Wayne Knight, welcome to Really, No Really, sir. Bless you all. Hello, Newman. And you never know when Howie Mandel might just stop by to talk about judging. Really? That's the opening?

Really No Really. Yeah, really. No really. Go to reallynoreally.com. And register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. It's called Really No Really, and you can find it on the iHeartRadio app, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Dani Shapiro, host of the hit podcast, Family Secrets. How would you feel if when you met your biological father for the first time, he didn't even say hello? And how would you feel if your doctor advised you to keep your life-altering medical procedure a secret from everyone?

And what if your past itself was a secret, and the time had suddenly come to share that past with your child? These are just a few of the powerful and profound questions we'll be asking on our 11th season of Family Secrets. Some of you have been with us since season one, and others are just tuning in. Whatever the case and wherever you are,

thank you for being part of our Family Secrets family where every week we explore the secrets that are kept from us, the secrets we keep from others, and the secrets we keep from ourselves.

Listen to season 11 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Now, one of the things I love about this Questlove Supreme podcast is we got something for everybody, every type of musical ever. We enjoy speaking to the people who are the face of some movements and some people you've seen on stage or TV or magazine covers. But we also love speaking to the folks who are making it happen behind the scenes and pave the way for those that followed, you know, keystones to the culture. This season, we've had some amazing one-on-one conversations, like I'm Pete Bill chatting up with hitmaker Sam Holland, sugar Steve chatting with the legend Nick Lowe,

and I've had pleasures of doing one-on-one conversations with Willow, Sonata Matreya, Kathleen Hanna, and The RZA. These are conversations you won't hear anywhere else, so make sure you go back and you check those episodes out, all right? Listen to Questlove Supreme on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. We are back. So our last question comes from Lynn.

This is a bit of a complex issue, so stick with me, but she says, Dear Chelsea, my husband and I adopted our son internationally about six years ago, completing the process just before COVID. Adoption was a long and expensive journey, but I always imagined we'd adopt again within a few years. Unfortunately, the program we used slowed down for Americans, and we found ourselves waiting for it to reopen. Then earlier this year, I was diagnosed with MS and shortly after the program reopened, but we were declined due to my diagnosis. My MS, by the way, is currently fine and really no symptoms since the flare-up six months ago. With adoption from the country with ethnic ties for our current son not being feasible, we started exploring other options, including biological birth or embryo adoption. A month ago, we were weighing whether to move

forward with the financial and emotional investment of an embryo transfer, and we ultimately decided to proceed. Obviously, we can always stop and not do it, but we're at the point where we will be transferred the embryos. While I've consulted my doctors, who've all assured me it's safe, I still have concerns., who've all assured me it's safe, I still have concerns. At 40, I wonder if it's responsible to have another baby, given my MS and the nine-year age gap my son will have with his sibling. I also worry about whether I'm taking on too much or if our family is at its capacity for tasks and challenges. Also, although both children will be ethnically different from us, they would not be sharing

cultural ties like we had originally wanted. I do feel some guilt knowing there are children waiting for families, but for us, it's not been an easy path. I'm reaching out because I have so many unanswered questions and would deeply value your thoughts. If you were in my position, what factors would you focus on when making this decision? Especially regarding personal health, the confusion this might inflict on our current son, and does all of this just feel kind of bonkers? Thanks for your time and guidance, Lynn. What do you think about that, Rachel?

I mean, it hits kind of uniquely close to home for me in a lot of ways. Something very similar with my mom had a hard time getting pregnant, went through the whole adoption process. The day before they were supposed to meet the child that they were adopting she found out she's pregnant with me they ended up my dad was like it's your your call we would have been 10 months apart and i think my mom felt like it was sort of you know it was going to be too much and not fair to either of

us and thought she'd be able to adopt again and and then you know had me and a few years later was diagnosed with cancer and very similar. Then was no longer eligible to adopt. And I also had a lot of loss as a child. My mom was sick, my dad was sick, and always wanted a brother and sister. So my answer is like, have another kid because your child will now have a sibling. But we wouldn't, nine years is a significant difference. So for me, like I always said, I wasn't gonna have one kid without having two, because I have so much trauma about being an only child. But it is so specific to my circumstances, and I don't know that it's actually applicable advice to anybody else other than, you know, in my scenario, I just always wanted a brother and sister and never had one.

Yeah, I can understand that. I come from a family of six, so I understand what big families are like and how beneficial it is to have siblings. Again, I think all of the questions that you're posing and everything that you're saying, I feel like with parenting, if there's any doubt, don't do it. You have to be 110% ready to make this addition to your family. And all of your questions and concerns are completely valid. And you're not sure. And I feel like that's your answer. You're not sure and you're happy with the dynamic that you have now. And things have changed.

So I think you have to also, you have to change your expectations of what you want your life to be and focus on your health and the child that you do have and your marriage. I don't think putting any extra pressure on your situation is the answer just based on your email. Yeah. And I think because of her age, I can feel like, oh, we have to make this decision right now. But I think give it six months. If you still feel in six or eight months that like you really must have this child, then maybe it's a different answer. To me, nine years is not a huge difference. I have brothers that are 14 years apart and we're all very sort of like spread apart. So to me, that just feels like fun. And you guys are a little bit spread apart too. So like that part doesn't feel too

bad. But I do think the point about about like are we at our capacity for challenges is sort of you know maybe just sit with us since it is such a recent diagnosis i would be curious i would be curious two things i would be curious what her son thinks just nine is old enough to have opinions about things there are kids that are dying for siblings and kids who are like i'm good you know and and if it like because that is the person probably who's going to be most impacted is her other child. So I'd be curious if it's something that he's always wanted or if he, you know, is kind of indifferent or doesn't want. And then I also, you know, I'm not in any way an expert on MS. I would say talk to somebody about what the more advanced stages look like and, like, you know, I mean, maybe get some information from people who are experienced

and know what is gonna be asked, you know, down the line. Yeah, that's a good point to ask your son. He is nine, you know, and get his input. Yeah, that's great. And then it really is a family decision. Yeah. Okay, well, we're wrapping up with Rachel Morrison. Thank you so much for being here.

Thanks for having me. It's nice to reunite with you once I found out we were reuniting. Make sure you check out her movie, The Fire Inside. Very exciting that your directorial debut is happening in real time. It's pretty exciting. I'm saying like there's suddenly

there's billboards up and like there's no backseats. I just want to say to the studio, no backseats. No, it's real. It's exciting. And it is. It's like it's the one movie that the whole family can go to that isn't animated, which, you know, I wish there were more of those, to be honest. I do, too. Quite frankly, I do, too.

OK, well, thank you for being here. Thank you. And we'll see everyone next week. OK, guys, stand up shows that I have coming. December 28th, I'm coming to New Orleans right before New Year's, and then I'll be in Atlanta, Georgia on December 29th. And those are the rest of my stand-up dates for this year. It's over. New tour, new year. If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email at dearchelseapodcast at gmail.com,

and be sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert, executive producer, Catherine Law. And be sure to check out our merch at ChelseaHandler.com. Joel, the holidays are a blast, but the financial hangover, that can be a huge bummer. If you are out there and you're dreading the new statement email that reveals the massive balance that you may have racked up, well, you could use our help. That's right. I'm Joel. And I am Matt. And we're from the How To Money podcast. Our show is all about helping you make sense of your personal finances so you can ditch your pesky credit card debt once and for all,

make real progress on other crucial financial goals that you've got, and just feel more in control of your money in general. You know it. For money advice without the judgment and jargon, listen to How to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you want a shortcut to the best version of you? Here it is. Feed the good wolf. I'm Eric Zimmer, host of The One You Feed. Every week, I talk to brilliant minds and brave souls about the art of small, powerful choices. Our listeners say it all. This is a lifeline. Transformational. The best antidote to a bad mood I've ever heard.

Join the pack and start feeding your best self. Listen to The One You Feed on the iHeartRadio app, I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together, our mission on the Really Know Really podcast is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why the bathroom door doesn't go all the way to the floor, what's in the museum of failure, and does your dog truly love you? We have the answer. Go to reallyknowreally.com

and register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast, or a limited edition signed Jason bobblehead. The Really Know Really podcast. Follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Dani Shapiro, host of the hit podcast, Family Secrets. How would you feel if when you met your biological father for the first time, he didn't even say hello? And what if your past itself was a secret, and the time had suddenly come to share that past with your child?

These are just a few of the powerful and profound questions we'll be asking on our 11th season of Family Secrets. Listen to season 11 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Decisions Decisions, the podcast where boundaries are pushed and conversations get candid. Join your favorite hosts, me, Weezy WTF.

And me, Mandy B. As we dive deep into the world of non-traditional relationships and explore the often taboo topics surrounding dating, sex, and love. Every Monday and Wednesday, we both invite you to unlearn the outdated narratives dictated by traditional patriarchal norms. Tune in and join the conversation. Listen to Decisions Decisions on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.