Dear Chelsea - The Norma Jean Years with Bruce Bozzi

Episode Date: February 9, 2023

Hollywood mainstay Bruce Bozzi joins Chelsea this week to talk about bringing up daughters with two dads, why timing is everything when it comes to falling in love, and what it means to really reinvent yourself.  Then: A chef gets burned when a cookie recipe is stolen.  An author dealing with sexual harassment finds herself surrounded by creeps.  And a throuple situation turns ugly when two partners want out. * Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail] * Executive Producer Nick Stumpf Produced by Catherine Law Edited & Engineered by Brandon Dickert * * * * * The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Tune in and join in the conversation. Listen to Decisions Decisions on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, what's going on? What's happening? What's shaking? Well, today is my parents' 50th wedding anniversary. Wow, 50 years. That's scary. It is a little scary. But then I also think about me and Brad.

I'm like, we've been together for 17 years. And I'm still a young thing, right? 17. Yeah, that's scary, too. Such a long time. Like, almost longer together than apart, right? Yeah, I'm getting there. I was, like, 20 when we started dating. So, you Yeah, I'm getting there. I was like 20 when we

started dating. So, you know, I'm excited for my folks. They're like going to a steak dinner and we sent them 50 flowers for 50 years. That's pretty. Yeah. Well, congratulations. That's sweet. Thanks. I will pass that along. But how are you doing? What's going on? Well, I'm in Whistler. I mean, when this airs, I'll be hosting the daily show this week that it airs, but we're taping this in advance. I'm up here. The snow is just not cooperating right now. So I went to go visit my girlfriend in Park City for four days. We skied Deer Valley. There was so much snow there. It was heaven. I was like, oh my God. And then I came here and I'm just hanging out, writing a book, writing new material. Also, I'm going back on tour, everybody. I have a new tour. It's called Little Big Bitch because I'm a little big bitch and I always have been. Well, now I'm a big little bitch. No, I'm still a little big bitch. Whatever. Anyway, I'm going back on tour. I'm going to be at Zany's Nashville, March 29th through Sunday, April 6th, and then Irvine Improv.

And then I have theater dates everywhere from Peoria, Illinois, Carmel, Kalamazoo, Spokane, Washington, Boise, Idaho, Vegas, Highland, California, Tulsa, Oklahoma, and more and more and more. So go to ChelseaHandler.com for tickets. And that starts in April. So I'm very excited, Katherine. Yeah. Amazing. I have family in Peoria, Illinois. They might be a little too square, though, to come see you.

Well, no, they can see me. They just we shouldn't interact. Yeah, right. Exactly. Yeah. You are a wild woman. Like you just finished a tour and then you're like, surprise, here's another one. I know. I know. It doesn't make any sense. I'm like, why am I going right back on tour? They're like, because you just put out a special. Now you go on tour. I'm like, wait, what? So confusing. All of it. I thought you were just like ready to rage. So many responsibilities. I mean, I don't know which way to turn. No wonder I want to stay in

bed all day when I'm home. Yesterday, I was like, I got up, I wrote from like 5am to 8am. And then I smoked a joint and everything went to shit. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I have like a three hour burst of creativity first thing in the morning and then yeah I wasn't gonna go skiing because it was so crappy out I was like what's the point but it was cozy I just want to be in bed and watch bad tv not even bad tv I really want to watch good tv but I think I've exhausted all television shows yeah I mean it's slim pickets out there right now, even though there are 1000 shows. Well, I know, which makes no sense with the volume of options.

But I know you also like to be in bed with a good book. And actually, we've had a bunch of people asking for book recommendations. Oh, yes, we have. Lessons in Chemistry is really good. I'm reading that right now. There's another book that someone left in my house that I'm also reading, but I don't remember the name of that. The Great Alone. Did we talk about The Great Alone yet? No. Oh, by Kristen Hanna. That is a great book. And every Yes, that book is about homesteading in Alaska, which is a subject matter that I couldn't be less interested in. And I that book was a page turner. I mean, I could not get enough of it. And it's a big book. It's like 600 pages, but it flies by.

I think I read it in two plane rides or on two plane rides. I love that. The Great Alone is great. I read The Paper Palace. I mean, that wasn't one of my favorite books. I read that pretty quickly too. So it's kind of a page turner.

And then, oh, I read this cute little nightstand book, Galatea by Madeline Miller. What's that about? She wrote Cirque or Circe. I don't even know what the proper pronunciation is for it, but I think it's Cirque. Yeah. I look at that every time and I'm like, I don't know how to say that. It's such a good book. I wish I could reread books, but I mean, there's too many books to read to have time to reread any.

Yeah. This is a podcast recommendation, but it has one of the greatest names I think I've ever heard. There is a new podcast that is about the kind of throwaway books that we all get at airports, and it is called If Books Could Kill. I guess to put it the way they would, they describe this podcast as a podcast about the books that captured our hearts and ruined our minds. So it's a lot of debunking. It's a lot of funny commentary and like unpacking the culture of what we believed at a certain point when this book was popular. They sort of break down like Malcolm Gladwell and The Secret and all these different books. And it's great. So it tells you which books are worth reading and which ones aren't?

Yeah. And like some of them, they're sort of teasing about them because they're maybe like a couple decades old and they're like, remember what we believed at the time and how this fit into the culture and what this did to us all,

what we all believed in. But it's a fantastic listen. It's very funny. I just love the name, If Books Could Kill. I also want to make a couple of recommendations of some of my favorite books. I think House of Mirth by Edith Wharton is an old classic. That's fucking awesome. That's a real commentary on society then and now. Not much has changed. And then The Red Tent is a really good book. I have always

heard about the red tent and I need to read it. Yeah, that's a classic book too. That's beautiful. I mean, I love the way you know, when books just take you to a place that you would never go like homesteading in Alaska. I'm never doing that. I'm never catching my own food. If you know, that's not gonna happen. Yeah, i tried it wouldn't happen so for some reason i always conflate the red tent with pillars of the earth even though i read pillars of the earth and loved it for some reason i always think those are the same kind of story that's funny i always conflate i always put them together the red tent and memoirs of a geisha because i just think both of those books are really important reading or great reading

at the very least. Yes. Especially for women. Especially for women. Well, I'm going to have to get on the red tent because it's just been too long. Did you get the clip I sent you of me talking about you

and your hard-boiled eggs on Alex Cooper's podcast? I did. And about Brad, like the fact that Brad has remained, he's a victim? He's a victim of our egging. He's getting he's a victim. He's a victim of our egging. He's getting egged every day.

He's a victim of your abuse. Oh my gosh. I loved that. Thank you for bringing me. Very stoned on to Alex Cooper. Oh my God. My eyes were closed. And she could not stop giggling.

It was my favorite. It was my favorite. I was like, this is a fucking mess, this interview. That was so much fun. But I think people loved it because they're just like, this is what we want to see from Chelsea Hamlet. And I think Alex Cooper. I think that's what they're there for. Okay, so we have a guest today. He is a gay man. And that is an identifier. You're not supposed to do that. Okay. He's a great guy. And he I've known him for a long time. And I did his podcast, which is called Table for Two. And then he elbowed his way onto this podcast. So please

welcome Bruce Bozzi. Hi, Bruce. How are you? Good, Chelsea. How are you? Can you hear me? I can see you and I can hear you. This is Catherine, my partner in crime. Hi, Catherine. Hello. How are you, Bruce? I'm good. Are those all your Grammys behind you? Yeah. My Grammys, my Oscars, my, yeah, a globe. I didn't know you were such an award-winning performer. Thank you, Chelsea. You know, you learn something new every day.

Maybe you'll win an award for your podcast. Aren't there podcast awards? Uh-huh. The Webbys. Oh, really? Yeah. We were at Webby honoree this year. An honoree. I thought we were a nominee. What's an honoree? We were a nominee and then we were an honoree. It's like the top 20% of podcasts. Way to cut it in half. By the way, who did you just have on your podcast that was so good? Was it Scarlett Johansson? Thank you. Yeah, we had Scarlett. Yeah. She kind of kicked it off and Octavia Spencer just dropped and you're coming up.

Oh, this is very exciting. I can't wait to see what headlines this brings. Every time I say something, I have to stop. I'm like, oh, I'm glad I'm out of the country as if you can't access the news when you're in a different country. I was just on a podcast with a girlfriend and I was like, I don't want to comment on this because it'll become a headline. And sure enough, there was like 15 articles the next day with that headline. So anyway, I'm just going to be mute from now on because I can't express myself.

No, the world would be a lesser place if you were. I know. I want to talk about your long storied career, pivoting careers. We've curated today's calls hopefully to suit something that you have some area of expertise in, which is the restaurant business, for instance. You're kind of in the Hollywood business. You have been a fixture on the Hollywood scene forever. So, but that's also, do you think that's by way of the restaurant business? You know, yeah. I mean, so the restaurant business, obviously, 30-year career. At the Palm. At the Palm Restaurant, which my great-grandfather co-founded in 1926.

I got involved doing summer jobs through college, and then it became my career. It was just like a calling for me, which kind of made sense because it was in the DNA. And I think to answer that question, I think the Palm really sort of was the intro to my sort of Hollywood relationships because I moved to LA and I was ringing checks in the West Hollywood Palm as I was also trying to do commercials and be an actor, but I was a really bad actor, but it was like my early twenties and I was out in LA. So I met a lot of people then. I call it my sort of Norma Jean trying to become Marilyn Monroe years. Well, yeah. Okay, great. That's exactly who you remind me of, Norma Jean. Thank you. See, I wish it was Marilyn Monroe, but I'll take Norma Jean.

Yeah, right. It's more Norma Jean for me than Marilyn Monroe. I appreciate that. So then, so yeah, so that happened. Then I moved back to New York, opened up the restaurant in Times Square. And a lot of my friends were like, they were all actors, it seemed. I was friends with Sarah Jessica Parker and Andy Cohen's always. So everyone was like in the same little tribe. And I was in the restaurant biz. So I wasn't in show business. I just was a part of their world and loved everything about

showbiz and then fell in love with Brian Lord and that kind of threw a whole different. Oh yeah. So Brian Lord is your partner, husband. You guys have been together. Who's a, who's a partner at CAA, correct?a correct yes exactly and one of the biggest agents if not the biggest in hollywood so does has he seen you act no he has never seen me act i think my big but my last well in the early 90s i did it was 90210 and was all those kind of shows that you'd be like sent out for. Never got one. The commercials I got were all commercials that I had to strip down. Like I had to dance in a bathing suit around rubber made garbage cans, or I had to like. Isn't it funny that that has only happened to women and gay men?

No straight men have had to dance around like that for an audition. A hundred percent. It was all objectification. It was all like, okay, hey, can you say your name? Could you give me your profiles? And can you take off your clothes? And I was like, okay. And then he hasn't, but he never saw me act. The last I moved back to New York, I did a Caligula in the East Village when the East Village was bad. I mean, on Orchard and Stanton, there were drug addicts. The theater was called House of Candles.

Oh, that sounds tragic. House of Candles. It is tragic. And I was so bad. I was freezing. And I don't know if you remember a guy named Sandy Gallen. Yeah, of course. Big manager. And he became a good friend. And when I was in LA, he would run sides with me. And he was like, you are the worst actor I have ever seen in my life. But I was having fun. And in actuality, what I was doing was kind of discovering myself, getting comfortable with my sexuality. It came from an Italian New York family. So it wasn't the easiest. The mafia.

The mafia. Exactly. I didn't want a hit taken out on me, Catherine, because I was a gay boy. So that was the purpose of those years became a real good foundation and great friendships. And so that's kind of the Hollywood. And okay, so how did you and Brian fall in love? Because Brian was married to Carrie Fisher, right? They weren't actually legally married, but that didn't happen,

but they were in love and then they had Billy. So they had a baby. Billy Lord, his daughter. Billy Lord, who some of you have seen. She's been in a bunch of stuff, American Horror Story, most of you maybe. So around two, that marriage ended and Brian kind of came out. That was his realization that he was in the wrong place. And so then I met Barry, so Hollywood, so bougie. Chelsea, I'm so bougie. I met Barry at Barry Diller and Dion von Furstenberg's wedding.

And I had met Barry in my Norma Jean years here in LA. So then I had gotten to know Dion. And so I was in this wedding and I see this guy and he's so sexy and I'm like, woo. And, but nothing happens. And because I'm living in New York at the time and he's living in LA and we'd see each other, like I'd always crash. Andy Cohen and I would come out here and we would crash every party there was during Oscar time. Cause we were just horrors and hookers for a good time and a movie star and fun. So I started to get to know Brian a little bit more. And I decided to become a dad when I was 40.

I realized, you know what, this is something that I want to do. And I started the process as a single guy. And really, quite honestly, on an airplane coming to LA for one night to have a facilitated meeting with my surrogate, potential surrogate, a mutual friend was on the plane. She was staying with Brian. She asked if I could take her back to his home, dropped her off. It was Christmas time. He asked, why are you coming to California for a day? So I said, I'm doing this thing. It's obviously a huge thing. And he said, come back tomorrow before you take the red eye back. So I was here for 24 hours. And I did.

And in that moment, in the house that I now live in, we kind of just were honest with each other. And that kind of led to us being in a relationship. I said, I have very strong feelings for you. He said, I do for you. We're old. I was 40 at the time. He was 46. Looking back now as I'm about to turn 57, I'm like, that was not old, by the way. And began a really great 16 years. We just passed 16 years together, married like five.

Lovely. So when you revealed to him that you were planning on becoming a father, he was on board with that right away? He was on board with that right away. He was on board with that right away. And now he says, I got pregnant and trapped him. That's a cute story. I'm glad you guys found each other. Brian's so fucking sexy.

Right? I mean, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's. I landed the guy. He's sexy to everybody. Yeah, he really is.

He's universally sexy and a good guy. So the kid's now 15. Yeah. What is your kid's name? Ava, A-V-A. I kind of was inspired because, you know, I'm a gay guy by Ava Gardner, who I just thought was just gorgeous, strong woman, Bazzi Lord. He legally adopted her a couple of years ago when we were getting married.

It all made sense. Yeah. That's sweet. I love gay parents. People have a daughter. That's lovely. Isn't it the best? Gay parenting? Yeah. Gay parenting is interesting because for me, Chelsea, I was going full throttle in my 20s, my 30s, New York, Palm Restaurant, working in the restaurant, staying out late. And it just, because you're not married to a woman whose, her body's changing, so you're slowing up naturally. It's like all of a sudden you're like, woo, at the party. The next day it's like, excuse me, can you get to the hospital? Your life's about to be over.

Yeah. I know. It's a kind of like, it takes your lifestyle to a grinding halt. Like that's how I felt when Andy Cohen had a kid. I was like, wait a second, this is going to change a lot. And then he had another one. I'm like, wait, what? So yeah, it's funny. I mean, I guess because nine months is there to prepare you, although nine months is never enough to prepare anybody.

When you're carrying a baby, I mean, I had a friend who just had a baby a couple days ago and almost died during the delivery. She had the worst. She lost so much blood and she's her heart was leaking and I was like, oh my god Like you think it's such an everyday easy thing and it's like no this used to kill people Yeah. Yeah. No billy just had her second baby and I gotta say she was so Committed to making sure everything was you know, the nine months she took such great care of herself, but the actuality, you know, it was a difficult, there were difficulties and Brian was a mess and he was like, can this please, like, can we not have any more babies? It's like you said, it's not to be taken for granted how difficult it is to have a kid come out of your

vagina. Pikachu. Yeah. Your Pikachu. Yeah. You should start saying Pikachu too, because you're never ever going to have to deal with a vagina. And Pikachu is such a, it's just such a nicer way to say it, right?

Yes. Vagina sounds like, I don't know, there's a hammer coming down at the end of it or something. Tell us about parenting with your daughter. What's her situation at 15? Is she manageable or is she about to, you know, does her situation at 15 is she manageable or is she about to you know does she hate you is she manageable that's how i think of children are they manageable

i don't blame you i thought of you today because i drive her to school which is irritating and i thought to myself you know what chelsea doesn't have to get up before 10 a.m no but for some reason i get up at fucking five every single day i should get up before 10 a.m. No, but for some reason, I get up at fucking five every single day. I should be sleeping till 10 a.m. Yeah, you should. I go to bed at like nine. So I've just completely switched my clock. Me too.

I actually couldn't keep my eyes open last night. But she is still into building these massively complicated Lego things that I could never do. She's got that kind of brain. She's definitely bitchy to me. Like I asked her a question. I'm like, do you have to like sneer at me when I asked you the question? Can you just answer nicely? We're in that phase. She's not going to like to the parties. That's not where her mind is at. So, you know, I don't want her going to those parties. Yeah. But I don't think what we did at those parties is happening with this generation of people.

I think they're much more scared of drugs. They're not partying like we partied. And they should be scared of drugs because everything's so screwed up out there with fentanyl and stuff like that. But I feel like 15-year-olds are much smarter than we were. They have access to so much more information than we did. We didn't have the internet when we were 15.

No, you're so right. And they actually kind of tell you what they want to do. And information than we did. We didn't have the internet when we were 15. No, you're so right. And they actually kind of tell you what they want to do. And like, they have a plan. Yeah. You had a plan to get in a first class ticket. I do have fucking plans. Who knows what they are, but they're just inside of my head until I expel them.

And then watch out. Yeah, and then watch out, duck. So that's the kid thing. What were your roles with you and Brian as parents? Who's the softy and who's the kind of rule enforcer? I'm sort of the primary caretaker. So I'm the one who's like, wake up, let's get breakfast. Let's do this. Like, oh, you got to go to the dentist. When Brian, when we began this journey together, Billy was already like 13, 14. I was like, you don't have to do that. You know, if she gets up, blah, blah, blah.

She considers him the smart one. So all homework, she's like, you know, I want to go through this project. So can I talk to you about it? As I'm sitting there and I'm like, hello. Because you fucked up her homework so badly? I fucked up her homework so badly. And they're a little bit like snotty towards me, Brian and Ava.

They look at me like, and then I'm like, you know what? Fine. I'll go in my office. I'll go hang out and have a glass of wine and binge. I don't need you guys either. Get out. That's the spirit. There you go.

Yeah. Okay. So we're going to take a quick bake and we're going to be right back. 2025 is bound to be a fascinating year. It's going to be filled with money challenges and opportunities. I'm Joel. Oh, and I am Matt. And we're the hosts of How To Money. We want to be with you every step of the way in your financial journey this year, offering the information and insights you need to thrive

financially. Yeah, whether you find yourself up to your eyeballs in student loan debt or you've got a sky-high credit card balance because you went a little overboard with the holiday spending or maybe you're looking to optimize your retirement accounts so you can retire early, well, How to Money will help you to change your relationship with money so you can stress less and grow your net worth.

That's right. How to money comes out three times a week, Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays for money advice without the judgment and jargon. Listen to how to money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Inside you, two wolves are locked in battle. One thrives on fear and anger and doubt. The other? Courage, wisdom, and love. Every decision, every moment feeds one of them. Which wolf are you feeding? I'm Eric Zimmer, host of The One You Feed. I've been there, homeless, addicted, and lost. I know the power of small choices to turn your life around. On this podcast, I sit down with thinkers, leaders, and survivors to uncover what it takes to feed the good wolf.

This podcast saved me. It's like having a guide for the hardest parts of life. The wolves are hungry. What will you feed them? Listen to The One You Feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really No Really podcast,

our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor. We got the answer. Will space junk block your cell signal? The astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer. We talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you and the one bringing back the woolly mammoth. Plus, does Tom Cruise really do his own stunts?

His stuntman reveals the answer. And you never know who's gonna drop by. Mr. Brian Cranston is with us today. How are you, too? Hello, my friend. Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park. Wayne Knight, welcome to Really No Really, sir. God bless you all. Hello, Newman. And you never know when Howie Mandel might just

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Hi, I'm Dani Shapiro, host of the hit podcast, Family Secrets. How would you feel if when you met your biological father for the first time, he didn't even say hello? And how would you feel if your doctor advised you to keep your life-altering medical procedure a secret from everyone? And what if your past itself was a secret and the time had suddenly come to share that past with your child? These are just a few of the powerful and profound questions we'll be asking on our 11th season of Family Secrets. Some of you have been with us since season one, and others are just tuning in. Whatever the case, and wherever you are, thank you for being part of our Family Secrets family, where every week we explore the secrets that are kept from us, the secrets we keep from others, and the secrets we keep from ourselves. Listen to season 11 of

Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. We're back. We're back. This is super exciting. You're someplace very glamorous. Oh, I'm in Whistler, Canada. Oh, it's your place, your happy place.

Yeah, but the snow is no bueno. It's not happening. Really? It's just wet and damp and there's no snow. It hasn't snowed in like two weeks. Surprising with all this weather snow patterns around the world. Wow. I think when it hits America, it doesn't hit Canada and vice versa. So Canada has been pretty lucky the last few years and now it's probably back to America's turn. We got all the precipitation.

And then maybe throw in a little, little pinch of climate change and then you'll see what happens. Yeah, a tad okay so what's going on there today katherine's gonna take us through what we can expect because we're gonna talk to live callers so you better get your fucking a-game on bruce okay bruce i read in people magazine that you said one of your favorite moments on your podcast table for two was your conversation with chelsea we had fun lunch chelsea Didn't we have a fun lunch? I know, but we didn't even have a drink. I regret that. It's all Chelsea's fault. She sits down, she immediately orders an iced tea. And then at the end, Chelsea, you go, we could have had a drink. And I was like, yeah.

Well, I didn't realize we were having lunch. I don't ever really look at my calendar. I just show up where I'm supposed to be. So I could be showing up for a lunch or I could be showing up for a podcast. I don't really know until I get there. And when I got there, I thought, oh, this is a podcast. And then we ordered food. And then I was like, wait a second. I should have had a drink in this situation. Was there a lot of chewing into mics?

That's my only question. No, no, no. Because we turned it off when we, well, I don't know what we did. No, no, no. We were actually, people do complain about the chomp. And we were not chomping. We were like very gracious. Listen, just so you know, this is a woman who carries hard-boiled eggs on planes.

So if she wants to talk about or complain about chomping, you need to back the duck up. You know what? Flip it and reverse it. I listened to it. I heard that episode. And I was like, oh my God. And I've been bullying her ever since. Catherine, please stop that for humankind.

You know what? I think I may have to change my ways. Maybe I'll just have them in the airport first. You have to go to an egg-anon meeting where people admit to terrible things they've done with eggs. Although, you know what? They do sell those little double bag of eggs now at the airport. I feel slightly vindicated. I know, but that's just, they're just trying to taunt you. Don't give in. Do not. It's for

victims like you. No, yeah, you cannot. Oh my gosh. That's terrible. Yeah. No, no, no. No bueno. Well, Bruce, I have some questions that I think are right up your alley. We are very excited for you to be joining us. Are you ready to answer some questions? I am ready. Well, our first email comes from D. D says, Dear Chelsea, I'm a 31-year-old gay man living in Canada. I've been with my partner for just over three years. We've been exploring with other people in the bedroom for about two years now. Recently, we had a threesome with another guy on vacation. We ended up spending almost four days with him. We were on a high from it,

and it was an amazing experience. However, since coming home from this vacation, things have taken a turn. I bet. We're both very much hung up on this guy, and it's starting to affect our relationship. We haven't always had the easiest sex life and this experience is making us both question our compatibility in the bedroom and in other areas of our relationship. Looking for some advice or a hard dose of reality. Cheers, D. Bruce, you need to take that as a gay man because I know that the rules feel slightly different for heterosexual and homosexual relationships. Yeah. Dee, I would say they are different.

And you so, okay, with no judgment with how people want to live their lives. Which means we're judging you. No judgment. Get a fucking grip. Yeah, keep it. I think it's always a very slippery slope when you have sex, when you bring somebody in to enhance your sex life, if you're in a relationship. From personal experience in my early twenties, I did have an experience where it turned out

unexpectedly, I was brought to someone's house. And I was really into this guy that I was dating. And next thing I know, there was like two other people there and we were getting a tour of their house. And we go to their bedroom and he starts like rubbing my chest. And I was like, oh, this doesn't normally happen in the tour part of the house. And then I realized it just was not my speed. And I exited the situation, sat in the living room, left. So that's being very just personal. So for D, I think someone's always going to be favored. If you have a three-way and you're with your partner and all of a sudden the person likes your partner more, it's just not good. The fact that they made it like a four-day-

Yeah. It sounds like a kidnapping. Kidnapping trip. Yeah. I sounds like a kidnapping. Like kidnapping trip. Yeah. I think part of being in the relationship is, you know, it's not always fun to have sex with the same person and it's not easy. And it does get a little bit like, okay,

but it's just a very tricky, I would say D this relationship probably doesn't not going to last. And because it's just not going to last. So you both like have this thing for him. Where does he fit in? Like someone's going to end up with this guy. And I don't know if it's going to be T. But it sounds like it's somebody who's like in another country somewhere or some other

location. I'm like, yeah, but they can all, they can all regroup or one of them can regroup with him. And, but I also think, listen, if you're having those feelings, you had that experience with this guy for four days, you come home and your relationship is not right. That's a good sign that you just got that your relationship isn't right and that your sexual compatibility may not be sustainable. So that's a good thing to find out that you're not compatible with somebody sooner than later. And so look at it

like that. I feel like sexual compatibility, like when that's gone, or if that's not there, that's like the most fundamental thing that you need to be attracted to the other person, that you want to fuck them, you know? If you don't want to fuck them, or you have trouble fucking them, or it's awkward, then that's not compatible because there's people out there that you're going to have incredible chemistry with. Yeah, I agree. The chemistry, that's the foundation for the relationship. And if that's not there in the beginning, you're not going to have a long-term relationship because at the end of the day, that does change, but you do have to reinvent and always want to have sex with them. And I think to your point, Chelsea, you're right, better to learn early. And also it makes you question what kind of relationship you want to have. Like maybe you

don't want to have a long-term monogamous relationship. Or maybe you want to call that guy from your vacation and get together with him. Yeah. Maybe it's a throuple situation. Maybe that's the relationship you're supposed to be in. Yeah. And just, I tend to agree with you both, but just to play devil's advocate, you know, when you open up your relationship, you are giving yourself the sort of room to play sexually. And maybe part of your relationship not working sexually is, hey, that's why we have this open thing so we can go, like, have fun elsewhere. We come back together. But, yeah, what do you think about that? I mean, just to play devil's advocate, the opening up of the marriage could have been the solve to the sex life, but it sounds like it's creating too many problems. I don't know many gay relationships

that it solves it. Yeah. I know another friend that's kind of experiencing going through something similar and they have an open relationship and now the boyfriend is really into the other person. Yeah. And this is bringing up all sorts of feelings for this guy. So I don't know, have an open relationship and now the boyfriend is really into the other person yeah you know and this is bringing up all sorts of feelings for this guy so i don't know but i feel like i can't comment on it because i'm a straight woman and so my opinions of it are like no i don't want an open relationship i mean i don't mind fucking around with a third party but i don't want to be dating other people when i'm in a relationship right 100 i mean i think there's there's a big distinction there and i do think you have no matter what your sexual hetero straight you know gay you're it's the same thing if you were in a relationship and you opened it up and all of a

sudden there's like another woman in this relationship with you and this guy your guy you're going to be like after a while this this isn't working you I don't know how many couples that work. And I think it's, I also think gay guys, and this is a generalization, there's just an issue with the long-term sex commitment and it's kind of built

into the DNA and men are pigs and this is what we do. I mean, there you have it, everybody. Men are pigs. You heard it here first and no one will be surprised to hear that they heard it on my podcast,

except it didn't come out of my mouth, did it? Well, I think we sort of solved that one. Tell Dee to let us know what goes down because I want to hear. Yeah, Dee, please keep us posted. I will also say if you do decide to give your relationship a try, like a real college try after this, there are therapists that specialize in open relationships, polyamory, all that stuff. So since the majority of your relationship has been polyamorous open, that might be a good thing to try. There you go. That's good advice. That's so nice.

I didn't even think about that. That's what I'm going to get certified as a polyamorous therapist. Oh my God. I would go to you tomorrow. One, one more thing to add to my repertoire. It's also the advice I gave to two of my friends when they opened up their marriage and blew it up in spectacular fashion.

And she ran off with his best friend and now he dates guys. So it's great. Sounds like a home run. It all worked out in the end. Yes. I mean, opening it up and including your best friend, that's nutso. I know. At least these guys did it on vacation.

But also opening it up, though, and finding out that you're into the same sex and you start dating the same sex, like you're freeing both people up to actually pursue what they really want. You know what I mean? Yeah. So that's a good thing, too. It's not such a bad thing when people separate, especially if both people, even if they go in complete opposite directions, like if both people are fulfilled. Great. I agree.

Wow. Well, our next question comes from Amanda. She is calling in here and she is a chef in Ohio. Hello, Chelsea. I'm a freelance chef, and I've been working my ass off all my adult life. Over the last six and a half years, one of my jobs has been working part-time as a private chef amongst a group of full-time chefs. My boss, who exhibits extreme narcissistic traits, only takes note of things that will benefit him. He took an interest in a healthy cookie I was making for guests and would ask about the recipe.

I had been carefully developing this recipe over the course of eight years and had loose plans to market it. This sent off a red flag in my head and I became guarded about giving the recipe to him. The last time he asked for the recipe, he said he wanted to make it in one of the guests' homes and would give me credit for the recipe. I politely asked him instead if I could critique the current method he was using and avoided giving my recipe to him. Fast forward a few months,

as I was working next to him one morning, he revealed to me that he and his pastry chef wife have developed their own healthy cookie and that they are going to take it to market with the help of his wealthy clients. I was so furious I shut down and ran to the office to cry. This is a corporate environment in which if you show signs of distress or confrontation, you are the problem. If he mentions it in front of me again, I'm not sure how I'll react.

My gut tells me to be direct with him, to help break his unchallenged ways of narcissism and possibly build a future where others aren't taken advantage of. But another coworker thinks my confrontation would only lead to an uncomfortable work environment. I certainly don't want to lose my job. What would you do? Amanda. Oh, wow. Hi, Amanda. Hi. Hi. Hi. We have our guest today, Bruce Bozzi. Say hi to Bruce. Hi, Bruce. Hi, Amanda. How are you? Good. How's it going? Good. Excellent. Thank you.

So Bruce is a restaurant guy through and through, and that's why I thought he'd have some good wisdom on this for you. Sure. I think this is even beyond just the restaurant piece. And so people will steal a good idea a hundred percent in there, you know, and, and restaurant business, you know, create a dish, create a special, someone then takes that special over and they try, they want credit. So I feel she could be direct with them. She could say, you know, Hey, that sucks. I gave you this idea. I mean, and you kind of took it, I guess, was she planning on bringing him in to offer to their guests? And he then, him making a business of it is just like a stab. You know what I mean? And I think it happens in

all business, show business. And you say you're working on something and all of a sudden somebody is good friends with you. They go for the part. She learned a hard lesson here and her feeling, she's never really going to get past that. She's got to now just develop her own cookie. And she's got to, I think, make that a business plan. Be motivated by that would be my advice to her. I mean, this doesn't preclude you from pursuing the avenue that you were pursuing previous to him revealing that, right?

You can still do your thing. Yeah. I mean, I'm a freelancer. I have a lot of different things going on. This is kind of like on the back burner. I think the bigger thing for me, I think I'm over the emotional gut reaction to it. It's more of like, how do I respond if this gets brought up in the workplace again? How do I keep myself calm and collected? And how do I effectively communicate with him as like an extreme narcissist? I feel like honestly, with an extreme narcissist, there's no point in revealing how you feel.

It's not going to have any impact. I think with him, it's like, just look the other way. Like he's on his own planet. You know, I mean, if you feel compelled to say something to him, I honestly feel like it will fall on deaf ears. Yeah. Going and looking at him is the hard part and to sort of like be in a work environment that you find joyous and you want to be creative and you want to bring something to the table. Now there's a lack of trust there. And all narcissists just deny what you're saying anyway. Like they deny their own behavior. They have no accountability. Yeah. It's hard for me to understand that mindset. I tend to be empathetic and try to understand why people do things. But it's more of me just being

able to cope in that environment with someone like that. And really, when I talk to my coworkers, they all kind of come to the same conclusion is that this is just kind of how it is. Is he senior to you in any way? Yeah. I mean, he's been there longer than me. But he's not your boss? I mean, I could talk to someone in HR above him, but usually that just creates a whole mess. And a lot of times when things don't get resolved because he's kind of the head of our department. Well, also, HR is not going to resolve this.

It's not a human resources thing. Right. I mean, I guess the person above him that's in charge of our department, I should say. Me, coming from the corporate environment that I do knows these things. Amanda, it's funny that you use this cookie thing because I know someone who's created a cookie and it's really great and she refuses to give anybody the recipe. She just hasn't. And it's like, oh, okay. Yeah. Good on you for not giving him the recipe, by the way. That's good. Yeah. And I think karma comes into play here. I'm sorry. That's good. Yeah. And I think, you know, karma comes into play here. I'm sorry.

I just believe in it. And I also think that, so the hard part for you is how do I work with this person? Because you took my idea and that's difficult. And I think you just have to sort of, I actually do feel, even though he's a narcissist, there is room to have a conversation and communication and say, hey, you know, this was something I shared. And it might fall on deaf ears, I think, to Chelsea's point, which then can even leave you less fulfilled in the conversation. It's very tricky. I would just continue with your projects. Don't even give him

the time of day. Let it be like water off a duck's back. Seriously, just he's not important enough to you. He's not going to prevent you from succeeding in your life when he's stealing ideas from people. That says it all. So it's not even worth your aggravation. And so I think you just have to think of yourself as like on a different level than him. And it's not even worth interacting or engaging unless he really disrespects you in a very blatant way. Then, of course, you can defend yourself and speak up for yourself. But on this matter, like it's just not worth it. That's true. I just I can just foresee an issue similar to this coming up again. And it's just more about maintaining composure and just knowing how to handle it.

Yeah, I think maybe you should just, you know, maintaining composure. What my therapist Dan always used to say is that there's like your reaction plus time is a response. So like, as soon as you're reacting in real time, that's not a response. That's like a jerk, guttural thing. So in any instance where he does provoke you in any way, if that happens, you just have to take a real calm, deep breath or a few and be like, I won't be spoken to like this. This feels very disrespectful because then it's about what it feels like to you. You're not accusing him of anything. It's like, this is, you know, you don't want to be emotional. You want to just be direct and confident. I feel disrespected in this moment. There's nothing that anybody can argue with

about that statement. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And he can only take from you what you give him. There is sort of an energy boundary that I think that you can set for yourself. Like Chelsea said, water off a duck's back where you know what your bubble is. He doesn't get access to that. He doesn't get access to your creative ideas. You know, I have a relationship with someone in my life who will always be in my life. And several years ago, I was like, you know what?

I can't tell this person stuff that's really personal to me because it'll get used against me. But now I have a great relationship with that person because I keep it light. I keep it civil. We chat about the weather. We chat about stuff like that. And it's really improved things. So, you know, maintaining a bubble. Just focus on talking about the weather. That's a great way to keep your cool. Yeah. But give yourself a bounty where you're like, you know, he can't get in here. Yeah. That's a smart thing to do.

Yeah, it also might be time to get your own wealthy clients to market that cookie because eight years, I bet it tastes pretty good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good idea. All right, Amanda, let us know what happens. Okay. Great. Thanks a lot.

And send us some cookies. Yeah, I would love to. Oh, yeah, yeah. Send us some cookies. Yeah, yeah. I'll be in touch with you, Catherine. Awesome. Thanks, Amanda. Thank you so much. Yeah, I would love to. Oh, yeah, yeah. Send us some cookies. Yeah, I'll be in touch with you, Catherine. Awesome. Thanks, Amanda. Bye, Amanda. Bye, Amanda.

Bye. You know, I'm such a dingbat. Like, Amanda pops up. I don't realize Amanda's the one. No shit. You're like, she, she. I'm like, she's sitting right here. Talk to her. I know. I mean, I'm a dingbat. You know what? Are you staring at yourself on the screen? Because I do that all the time,

where I don't look at the other person and I'm looking at myself. So I apologize, Amanda. I literally was like, oh, wait, that's who we're talking to. Yes, that's Amanda. Well, our next question is sort of an industry question. so I thought you would both have some good insight into this. Our next caller is Caroline. She is 36. She's a PhD student, and she's also ex-military. Dear Chelsea, I'm a PhD student and not in the industry, quote unquote. However, I met an older man in a networking event, and he showed interest in a book I published, Fairly Smooth Operator. We're both military veterans, and he wants to in a book I published, Fairly Smooth Operator. We're both military

veterans, and he wants to produce a short film of one of the chapters, a chapter that tells the story of sexual harassment issues I encountered that still exist in the military. The problem is, when we finally met in person, he took the conversation in the direction of asking me about my dating life. I don't think he crossed a line and he didn't ask me out. I don't know if this is just what people in LA talk about or if this is inappropriate and he's trying to shoot his shot. Why can't I network with men

without being subject to potentially dating them? I feel like I'm being asked to sign away my rights to a book with someone who has connections that would be helpful. However, there's a murkiness now around his intentions. What should I say to make the line clear? Or should I not work with him at all? Is this why you only work with women, Chelsea? Thanks for your help, Caroline. Hi, Caroline. Hi, Caroline.

Hi. Hi, thanks for having me. Hi, this is Bruce Bozzi. He's our guest today, and he is embedded in the Hollywood industry. I have a stronghold in it. No, I don't. But yes, I'm familiar with it. I actually have something that I feel, but I think Chelsea, you should lead with this. Well, I just think absolutely not.

Like do not work with, that is so out of style and so passe. Men asking you about your dating life when you're on a business meeting is unacceptable, period. That's not what you're there for. So I would just cut ties with him and continue to send your script out and network. And just, you're going to find somebody that's going to want to do it for you. And it's probably going to be a woman. Yeah. Yeah. And I think also people reveal themselves so quickly. So if you're paying

attention and you choose to look past that because you want to get the project done, you're going to find out, oh, that was actually who they are. And he revealed himself and you felt it and trust your instincts and your gut. And I would say he's not the guy. Okay. And then what's the best way? I'm going to run into him again at these networking meetings. So do I make an excuse? Do I confront it? What do you think is the best way to do that? I would. I would confront it because men like that need to be called out. I would be like, hey, listen, it's inappropriate for you to be asking me about my dating life. And he'll, you know, minimize it and say, oh, well, no, I was just trying to get to know you. It's like, it's not, we're not in that era anymore. We're in

present day modern times. And there's been enough information in the last five years for you to understand that, especially in this industry, you need to behave yourself and act above board. Like you're serious about your work and you showing him that you're serious about your work is going to have a longer and bigger impact than you continuing to work with him. 100%. Yeah. Is there anything in the moment with that that you would say? I was kind of shocked in a moment and not prepared for that.

Well, yeah, I would go, really? Are you asking me about my personal life? Do you know what year it is? It's 2020. What year is it? Three. 2024? Almost.

Whatever. 2023, right? Okay. 2023. Why am I expected to know what year it is? It's all so fucking confusing. Yes. You need to react to know what year it is? It's all so fucking confusing. Yes. You need to react to it in a way that's like, you can't possibly be thinking that's appropriate.

It's like somebody farting when you sit down to meet with them. It's like, no. I mean, farting is obviously less offensive than asking you about your dating life, but still inappropriate. But also normal not to know what to say in that moment because sometimes things settle. Like you kind of take it back. We're all taught to be respectful and to be good people and to, you know, and you're in the room and you're talking business. So when the time goes away, you know, the next day you're always like, God, I should have said that. Or now for the next time or when you see him again, you're going to like hear it much quicker and be able to be like, hey, hey, you're crossing the line here. And I think Chelsea is completely right.

Yeah. A softer version of that is I wasn't comfortable with that. I was, you know, it made me uncomfortable. I'm going to go in a different direction. Thanks, but no thanks. But I think I totally agree. Your gut is telling you it wasn't just like an innocent question of like shooting the breeze. It's great.

And you're also like protecting future people and, you know, that he's going to interact with. So think about it that way. He needs to know that he can't be just like asking women about their personal lives. Right. Okay. Yeah, I feel like he kind of used this like veteran bond to make it seem like we're just being friendly. But yeah, especially with the topic, I just felt like, oh, now this is feeling exploitative. Exploitative. Exploitative. Well, and especially when you're talking about like the theme is sexual harassment. And he's like, so you like to go out? Yeah.

What was your dating life? You're like, what? This is not appropriate. Yeah. Yeah. Well, keep us posted the next time you run into him and what happens with that. And we hope you find an awesome woman who wants to help you tell your story as well. Awesome. Thank you so much for the reassurance. I appreciate it. Awesome. Thanks, Caroline.

Thanks. Bye. Men are pigs. Well, that doesn't get us anywhere, does it? No, but it's like so- But not all men are pigs. No, I know. We are pigs. Well, that doesn't get us anywhere, does it? No, but it's like so- But not all men are pigs. No, I know. We're not. I mean, that's just not true.

A lot of men are pigs. I mean, I'm not a pig, but I know a lot of good guys too. But I feel like these stories, we hear them so much. And you're right. We're not, it's a whole different time. I think monogamy is really just too much pressure on too many people. I also think that we have to restructure it. It doesn't make sense. With monogamy, I feel like you can make a choice to say,

hey, I love you. I want to be with you. But every now and then I might want to sleep with somebody else. You could have like a sort of don't ask, don't tell policy, but it's not a relationship. You're not forming a relationship. You just might have a moment. You might be in Whistler and be like, oh, so-and-so's here. I feel like there's a lot of ways to live a full life and have multisexual partners and not just immediately when you're in lockdown with one person. Well, yeah. It also depends on what age you meet that person. When I meet my person, I'm going to be basically in my late 40s or 50. I'm 47 right now. And I feel like that's enough time for me not to fucking want to kill them because I'm not 20 and meeting them or 30 or 40. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I will say in my, because I was in my early 40s. Later, I meet my person less shorter amount of time.

You want to murder them, take them out. I actually think it's really healthy to meet people in your 40s. Yeah. Well, you're smart. I mean, you're more yourself than you were in your 30s for sure. So that's a benefit as well. Definitely. Yeah. If someone's down with your personality. If someone's down with your personality. Yeah. But you think meeting somebody in your 40s and 50s, conversely, it's, you know, you kind of like know who you are and like your routine and like your stuff.

It's not so easy to be like. Yeah, yeah. Well, there's lots of ups and downs to all ages. So just keep that in mind. Yeah. True, true. Well, let's take a quick break and we'll be right back to wrap up with Bruce and Chelsea.

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where every week we explore the secrets that are kept from us, the secrets we keep from others, and the secrets we keep from ourselves. Listen to season 11 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Oh, and we're back. We sure are. Well, Bruce, I wanted to ask if there's any advice you'd like to ask Chelsea. Chelsea, yeah, I would. So if there was one question that you would have appreciated being asked at 15, at Ava's age, what would that have been? Oh, God, I was so selfish when I was 15. I mean, I didn't think even my parents existed. It was like, why aren't they here to serve me? I was so angst-ridden too.

You know what a great question would be is, how can we do a better job of parenting you? Or how can I do a better job as a parent? Dangerous. Dangerous. But it really actually opens up the conversation in a way that you feel like you're partners rather than necessarily parent and child. And I feel like the more you read about parenting, and I do read about parenting, ironically, because I'm always interested and curious about the ownership parents feel over their child. They think they own the person when it's not the, you don't own your kids, you're guiding them. And the idea is that when they grow up, they go out into the world and you've prepared them with enough information,

you know, in their arsenal to navigate a life for themselves that is fulfilling. Yeah. in their arsenal to navigate a life for themselves that is fulfilling. But a lot of parents are just so controlling of their children, even when those kids are adults, they think that their opinion is more important than their child's opinion. And I don't think that that's true when you're talking about two human beings. I find it very interesting that there's just so much ownership. You don't own a person. You're there in this life with a person. And it's a two-way street. Yeah, 100%. I think it's a great question for me to ask her because when I think about it now, you

know, quite honestly, we have about three years left. And then if I've done my job right, there's a strong person now that's going to have a life of their own. And I agree, this weird sense of ownership of children, it's like, no, you're your own person from the minute you're here. But that is the way for us to sort of navigate the next three years, which I think are really important for her to really know that I'm a support for her to pursue what she wants, that's the way to do it. Because it can avoid the frustrations and the arguments. Because as you read about kids, the chapters change. So when you have a small kid, you have to micromanage them. And so I will ask for that question and I will see what she says. And then see if she asks you the question

back. How can I be a better daughter? I bet you she won't. I bet you she won't, but it's actually, I bet that's a really good question. That's a good conversation to have. I mean, I get three minutes of dinner. She's in and out. Bam. She's back in her room. Yeah. It's just, I remember my father being like, I'm the father, I decide. I'm like, for how long? Are you serious? Because that doesn't make me take you seriously. You deciding everything doesn't make me respect you. It makes me think you're foolish. Right, right. Yeah, that's funny. Again, your head, I was in the box of child-parent relationship, like, no, you can't do this. This is what you should do. It's like, I didn't know I actually had the voice to so much later. And the later you that happens, you have to go through the steps of life. You know, you want to you don't want to be doing what you should be have done in

your teens in your late 20s. Absolutely. Yeah. And there we have it, you guys parenting, hot parenting tips 101. That's what we'll call this episode. Hot parenting tips from Chelsea Handler. Delivered straight to Bruce Fossey's lap. Any day. Always welcomed. Thank you, Bruce, for today. That was really fun. Love you.

I love you too. Thank you, Catherine. Thank you, Chelsea. See you soon. Bye. Bye-bye. Don't forget to watch my special on Netflix, you guys. Revolution.

It's a revolution. So if you'd like advice from Chelsea, just send us an email at dearchelseepodcast at gmail.com. Dear Chelsea is a production of iHeartRadio, executive produced by Nick Stumpf, produced by Catherine Law, and edited and engineered by Brad Dickert. Joel, the holidays are a blast, Law and edited and engineered by Brad Dickert. That's right. I'm Joel. And I am Matt. And we're from the How To Money podcast. Our show is all about helping you make sense of your personal finances so you can ditch your pesky credit card debt once and for all, make real progress on other crucial financial goals that

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