Dear Hank & John - 103: There Are No Boxes (w/ Gaby Dunn!)

Episode Date: August 14, 2017

What is a mug without a handle? When's the right time to get a Saturn tattoo? Should I come out when I'm not ready? And more! Email us: [e-mail] patreon.com/dearhankandjohn

Hello and welcome to Dear Hank and John. Or as I like to call it Dear Gabby. That's it, just Dear Gabby. No one else, no one else here. Deal. Man, I would read your advice, column. This is a podcast, it's comedy podcast about death oftentimes, where two brothers, but occasionally a special guest will answer your questions,

give you Dubie's advice and bring you all the weeks news from both Mars and AFC Wimbledon. And today we are joined by Gabby Dunn, hello Gabby. Hi, thank you for having me on my own show, which is called Dear Gabby. It's great to have you. When did you start up this advice podcast about death, all by yourself?

Oh, I would say 30 seconds ago. Good. Well, thanks so much for having me on. I really wanted to do this podcast because I'm a huge fan of the work that you do. And I know that I know that I want to help you promote promo your new book that's coming out and new tour you're going on.

But also I wanted to promote some of my own stuff. So I'm coming on the podcast to tell people about some of the stuff that I'm working on. We'll get to that though. Have you had a good week so far? It's Monday. It's like 12 o'clock on a Monday. So have you had the first good three hours

of your week so far? Oh, sort of. We were just talking about how neither of us are being productive today, particularly. And also, I didn't invite you on my show, so it's like super weird, but you're the first guest. Just like, didn't. I don't know. Got to talk to my booker, I guess. Yeah, I just showed up. You just started recording, and then suddenly I was inside of your podcasting software.

Yeah, it's actually like pretty weird. But I'm so glad you're here because we have so many questions coming up about bisexuality and I know that you're an expert. So... I'm not saying that we saved up a bunch of questions that John and I didn't feel qualified to answer for when we had a guest who has a broader set of experiences than we do, but there may be more kinds of questions like that than usual. I honestly love to be tokenized if people could just have me and book me on things and give me work based on that. I would really appreciate it. Mom has got to eat. So if someone could.

Right, well, then you're in the right place because this is the highest paying podcast in the podcast business. There are, no podcast thing. I've heard that. By which I mean, it pays the exact same amount as all other podcast gigs, which I assume is zero dollars. I have never heard of a person being paid to be on a podcast.

But maybe. Yeah, especially my show, Bad with Money, we pay all the guests. It's just kind of a wink to how bad I am at money. I'm part of the show. We make like, we make like $30 an episode and we pay $50 an episode of the guests. Yep, and then I just light a bunch of hundreds on fire just to like, you know, for our- Yeah, you got to be authentic All right, Gabby, did you bring us a short poem today? Yeah, I brought a sexy poem because I felt like that was my brand

Okay, so I'm on come for all ready. Oh God, that's my goal is to just make you as uncomfortable as possible I don't know if that's come through in everything that I do that's working. Okay So it's it's a nice one. It's a coming and everything that I do. That's working. Okay, so it's a nice one. It's the E Cummings poem that I really like and it's, I'll just, do you wanna say the title? I just read it.

I'll just read it. So you could say the title? Well, the title is sort of the first line, but whatever. So, okay, this is the poem. It goes, I like my body when it is with your body. It is so quite new a thing. Muscles better and nerves more. I like your body.

I like what it does. I like your body. I like what it does I like its house I like to feel the spine of your body and its bones and the trembling firm smoothness and which I will again and again and again kiss I like kissing this and that of you. I like slowly stroking the shocking fuzz of your electric fur And what it is comes over parting flesh and eyes big love crumbs and possibly I like the thrill of under me you quite so new. That end part is my favorite. I love that part. It's so good. It's so like, I don't know.

I just always really, that always stuck with me. I always really like the last two lines of that poem. I never really think about whether or not a poet, like a famous poet, especially like E. Cummings, or Shakespeare, was kind of like, to like E. Cummings or Shakespeare, it was kind of like to what extent were their poems involved in the process of getting them laid? Oh, 100%.

You think he wrote that for someone not to read it to them and be like, so, right? So, so like we doing, or what's the deal? I feel like all art is just like people trying to be like, huh, so, who's someone's gonna f**king hour, right? Like, that's what we're all doing here. And then, you know what's also fun? Is that like a lot of these writers who you read

their work and it's like, you know, in a lot of these writers who you read their work and it's like, you know, in school and stuff, they show you like the PG work. And then later you go back and you read and you're like, oh, okay, like, did you know Shell Silverstein wrote Erotica, like so much. Yeah, I did know that. I did and I was upset when I found out

because I was too young. It was too young I found out because I was too young. He was too young to find out. It was like a prolific erotic writer. And then like funny like dirty drawings too, like hilarious dirty drawings. And I was like 12. And there's like shell silver steam books at my friend's mom's place.

Oh no. And there was like one that was not kids book. And I was just like, that, okay, oh, put that back and pretend like that never happened. Yeah, or like, you just find. I turned out okay. Did you, or you're right, you're sweating right now. Okay, yeah, just the entire conversation.

I won out, Gabby. Nope. Yeah. I came. Good, you're doing your job. Thank you, oh, I'm so glad. I won out Gabby. Nope. Yeah. I came. Good, you're doing your job. Thank you. Oh, I'm so glad. I came just to... I actually didn't know if this was like a PG-13 podcast and I just went for it.

Well, we're gonna have to bleep some of you for sure. Really? That's allowed. Do you bleep? We bleep. Really? We bleep here on Dear Hank and John. John has cursed a total of, I think, three times

on this podcast. Our guests significantly more. I don't think I've ever done it. Really? I'm pretty good at not cursing. Do you wanna do it now and then you can bleep it? Which word should I pick? I mean, probably just like.

Old Goldie, Mr. F***. Oh, I Came here to ruin this show and I've done my job. We are nine minutes in and I ruined this show Oh, I don't know that I feel I feel like it's going very well. I feel completely unruined Some questions. Yeah, yeah, let's take some some gay-ass questions. All right, this one's from Elizabeth, who asks, dear Hank and Gabby, greetings. I'm a young queer woman who has recently ventured into the world of dating. However, I'm not out to my parents.

I've been talking to this girl for a few weeks and we've been on one date. However, we're about to go on another date tomorrow and I'm realizing that I'll have to tell my parents where I'm going because I might be gone for almost the entire day, which sounds like a fun, cool date. I want to know more about this. This would require one of two situations occurring,

either one, telling them the truth and coming out when I'm not ready or two, lie to my parents. Neither are really great options. Any dubious advice would be appreciated. Gay and scared Elizabeth. Oh my God, I want gay and scared on a mug. Just the classic it me. Um, yeah, I, uh, well, one kudos to you for being a kid who doesn't want to lie to their parents.

That's weird. What's that like? Um, and I mean, I always say like for coming out when you live with your parents, it really comes down to how safe you feel. So if you feel like they're going to react poorly and you're going to have to find a different living situation, or there's some sort of abuse that's going to happen, or just anything where you're not physically safe, I don't recommend coming out. I used to be really militant about like,

you have to come out to show them that they have a queer kid so they can change their mind. But now I'm sort of like the practicality of it. Like if you don't feel safe, don't make yourself unsafe as like a political statement. But if also like, I don't know, parents are dense. So like if you're like, I'm going to spend the day with my female friend, they'd be like, cool, be gal pals, have fun.

I guess you personally don't feel good lying to them, but like, what have you been doing up till now? Right. I mean, I think you and the look out for yourself. And then there's, yeah, I mean, of course it's like parent to parent situation here, but there was a moment when my parents were pretty sure I was gay. And so there's like, there were a number of clues that were leading them in that direction.

My interests, my friend group, and you know, because we have stereotypes and I was fitting into some of them. So I think you can, like, I don't encourage this, but there is a sense that like, you can be like, boy, I sure, she seems like Elizabeth's been hanging out with Christina a whole lot lately. Seems like there's been in all the, and like not just daytime, but nighttime.

And a lot of, maybe they'll just sort of get it. Yeah. But that's not necessarily how you want to do. I mean, it's also like, they really might not get it. And also, I don't know how old this person is and I don't mean to like, but like, how long, like you could kind of get away with sleepovers for like a while, you know what kind of get away with sleepovers for like

a while, you know what I mean? Before they know what's up, like you could get like door closed sleepovers for like a good solid month before they're like what's going on. And like maybe you want to just like do that for a bit. Cause that look, and there's so many disadvantages about being queer that like, let us have those door closed sleepovers before you guys realize what's up. Like, give us that one thing. No one's getting pregnant, it's fine.

I feel like Elizabeth, again, good on you for wanting to tell your parents the truth. And I think that being conflicted about this at all is the right place to be. And you have to make the decision based on who you are and your situation. Did your parents ever ask you like, hey, what's going on? Why are you acting?

No, they said things to the tune of, whoever you are, whoever you are, it's okay with us. Kind of six. Everybody should do that. Let me know that all parents. Yeah. All parents should do that. Totally.

Agreed. Regardless of if you think your kid is gay, because a lot of times, like there's very feminine girls who end up being bisexual or queer or lesbian and like their parents, we're like, oh, I guess we don't have to worry. But you can start that, just start telling your kid that from day one.

Well, we're some of your interests. Oh, I really liked going to the skating rink and just ice skating, not like, eventually I started playing hockey, but just like the free skate, like by myself, I would go and like, like they play like pop music and you just skate around. Oh my god.

That. All of my friends were female. And that sort of remains a thing. Well, like, of course I have dude friends, but like mostly it's like the husbands of my friends are my dude friends. Did you ever see that snl skit that was like Like a wishing well for boys and it was like and it was like a gift that you get for like a young a young boy

And it's like at the end. It's just this like sensitive boy who wants to like sit by a well And then it's like the end of the sketch is like it's not a gay thing. I mean it is, but it's not and I was like Oh my god, that's what you remind me of, the little sensitive boy next to the well. Yeah, and I really liked musicals, what's up like that? Aw, you're just a sensitive soul. I mean, what is it all?

As we have found over the last 10 years, it turns out, ah, there are no boxes. It's hard to put people in boxes, and that's the beautiful thing. We're all our own box own box dear Gabby as I've become more senior at work I find myself erasing me from the podcast yep I've become more as I've become more senior at work I find myself in the position of being asked to supervise or give feedback to less experienced co-workers I find this challenging firstly because I do not want to hurt my co-workers' feelings.

Secondly, often news just easier to fix their work myself, but I know this is not the best way to help my co-workers grow professionally. How do you go about giving feedback in a way that is one kind and two helps the person fix their work and three gives helps the person grow professionally for the next project. Add Meloria, Meliora, Jessica. What's Add Meliora? We have a thing on our podcast where people, we compliment people on their, on their sign-offs, which has, has resulted in people making their sign-offs really weird.

I think it means, it means the better. Oh. I don't know why. Or all the best or something. Well, you know what, a little bit of a deep cut Jessica, so don't make us work for it. Okay. I. That was really good feedback.

It was really good feedback to your coworker Jessica. No, I'm just mean. Okay. Well, I think what's interesting, and I learned this from Allison primarily, is that you have to start, it's like the complement sandwich, so you have to start with being like, great job. You did so good on the lighting. Here's why the sound is bad. And I, and I used to never do that, and I realized I was like, why, who are these babies that need me

to just like talk to them that way? But turns out everyone, it's the babies are everyone. Including me, I'm also the baby. I guess so. Why, what's your advice? No, I mean you, you are the baby. Like you don't like it when people just like come out and they're like,

here's the criticism with none of the praise. Just fix the thing that's wrong. I assume because you're a person, but maybe you're the exception. Yeah, sometimes I like to just get to it, but I understand why. I mean, you know, there's this whole thing especially as women, and I'm sure Jess, I was about to lead with that with Jessica. Like, it's this hard thing as women in supervising positions where you have to sort of be like, hey buddy, like with a smile on your face, you can't just go up and say what they need to do because then everyone will be like, Jessica's a bitch. Sorry, now you're gonna bleep me again. But yeah, so, so I mean, it's tough. I also understand the impulse to take over, but part of me is like, yes,

the work will be done correctly, the way you view it as correctly, but you've also hired this person who may have a different way of doing it. And if you ask them to fix it, the way that they do it will be different than the way that you do it. And that's okay.

And like you wanted their skill set anyway. So I don't know. I think you have to let go of the idea that your way of doing it is fixing it. You know what I mean? Like my making sense, your way of doing it is not necessarily 100% correct. You have to be okay with what the other person contributes.

Yeah, and I have struggled with that where, I'll be like, if it's not the way I would have done it, then it's wrong. It took me a while to get away from that. The other thing that I'll be like, if it's not the way I would have done it, then it's wrong. It took me a while to get away from that. The other thing that I'll say to Jessica that was really important for me to realize is that when you say like, it's easier to fix their work myself, you are not giving yourself the chance to learn and grow

and become better at your job, which is the work that you have to do to help your coworkers get better at their jobs. So you're not good at this part of your job yet because it the work that you have to do to help your co-workers get better at their jobs. So you're not good at this part of your job yet, because it's new to you. And if you're just fixing their work, if something is wrong and you're like, oh, it's easier for me to just fix it than to have a conversation about what's wrong, then you're not getting better at that.

You are doing the thing that you're doing it to yourself at the same time you're doing it to your at the same time you're doing it to your coworker. So when you like when you actually do it, it's harder. You are like it's more difficult work at first to figure out how to talk to your coworker about how to make their work better. Then it is to just make their work better yourself. But it's not like that gets easier for you as well. Just by doing it and by doing it over and over again. And like I now regularly send emails, like I have to figure out what I don't like about a thing

and I have to communicate that effectively, which is not necessarily super easy, but I've gotten a lot better at it. And at getting that information across in a way and also understanding individual humans so that I know the way to tell one person is different than the way to tell another person Which is absolutely fine Like that's one of the things about managing is understanding the people that you manage not just like

Every every person is the same and you should treat them all the same I don't really believe that I think that like you need to understand what motivates different people and and how they How they respond to both praise and criticism and what kind of praise and what kind of criticism motivates them the most, which is shocking how different people are, especially how they are not me over and over again. I continue to realize that other people are not me. There's a big important lesson of management.

Yeah, big time. And you have to, like, it's gonna hurt their feelings and make them worse at their job if you just do the work for them. So I think you gotta, yeah, I think you, you can't have people working for you that you're just doing their job for them. Cause then they'll just get resentful too.

It's a bad pattern. That was a good question, damn. That's right, we got lots of good questions here. I'd do your handkerchief, John. I'm gonna ask another one. If that sounds like a good plan to you. Yeah, go for it. This one I like a lot.

It's from Christina who asks, Dear Hank and Gabby, I've been a Nerdfighter and involved in various fandoms for probably seven plus years now. In my younger teen years, I was really active in these communities, and I ate up as much content IRL as I could. I'm 19 now, and I feel this weird sense of disassociation from it all. I still identify as a Nerdfighter and love all the content coming from all those other fandoms that I was into. But when I see video of young teenage girls in the mass of thousands screaming for these YouTubers that I adore, I can't help but feel uncomfortable.

I used to be that girl. I still unapologetically love all these things, but I feel weird about conventions and IRL meetups. Did these people, these people they idolize are just people. They binge watch Stranger Things and wake up surrounded and popcorn crumbs and regret just like the rest of us. Am I just growing up? Am I in the wrong here?

Will all of those adolescent girls I see at VidCon crowds go through the same thing I am? Demagorgans in self-doubt Christina. Uh, yes, you're growing up. As Blink 182 said, that's what this is growing up. Um, there's- It said it's so many different times in that one song. Yep, I guess this is growing up. Um, there's- It should have so many different times in that one song. Yep, I guess this is growing up. Uh, yeah, I mean, I used to be super, super into fandom.

Like, I used to be all, it was like all consuming. But that was because I was young and you, I felt powerless and I had, you know, I didn't have the ability to like have a car and live on my own and do anything for myself. And I like wanted some kind of feeling like I was a part of something. And I was like, yeah, it's, I've gone through the almost the exact same thing that Christine is describing where you just kind of start to pull back and you're like, wait a minute, everyone is a person. All your faves are problematic.

Like nobody. And I don't know if this is just because I slowly became like, I was the person waiting in line for these things. And now at VidCon people wait in line to see me. And that messes with me a lot. Like it's very weird. And so it gave me the knowledge to know how to treat these people. And so like, if you feel a little disillusioned with it, at least take it into your life of like, OK,

I know how to treat other people with kindness because of how I would have wanted to have been treated by these people that had like, quote unquote, power over me, I guess, because I idolize them. But yeah, I think it really is just growing up because you start to realize that there's like other stuff going on for you. When you're young, there's not really,

I mean, it's pretty boring being. Well, it's also like, I think that there's a lot of, and this goes on forever, of course, but there's a lot of figuring yourself out and you're looking for like models through which to figure yourself out. And that's both like the things that you love and like identifying with those things

and defining yourself through the things that you love, which is a lot better than defining yourself through the things that you hate. Yeah. And there's looking for people to sort of be models for behavior, and that's both other people in communities or it's the people who are creating the stuff that you love. And I was a huge nerd fan, and I would wait in long lines to meet my favorite musicians and authors.

And also, there, totally, like, there will be times when people will go over a line. But I did that too. Like, I was the guy who went over the line. Me too. Like, not like every time, but like, like, there are a couple of times, maybe just one time, when I maybe figured out

what hotel a musician was staying at, and I called him on the phone and he answered and he was like, hello, and I was like, great show tonight and he was like, oh God. Right. So that was me. And so now from now on, whenever somebody does something like that to me, I have to be like,

I can't really complain that much. Yeah, and I also think, so it makes me, and everything feels so important when you're young, like so important. And so it makes me have a lot of empathy for, for instance, when stuff happens in queer fandom, like when lesbian characters are killed off, or when an actor that we really loved

says something homophobic or transphobic or whatever. And it's just like I understand how devastating that is. Whereas I think I see a lot of people writing off teenage fandom or like teen girls in particular where they're like, this is so silly, this is so dumb, or they don't care about them. Like the number one thing to me is you don't alienate queer fandom and you don't alienate teenage fandom. Like they love so passionately and they care so much because this is the most important time in their life to them. And so if you're part of that, like you should feel so

grateful and so lucky and so blessed that they've even like connected with you in some way. So it is hard to draw the line between like, oh wow, they're really screaming and that's pretty annoying versus like putting into, you know, like people wanting to find my dad on Facebook or whatever. Like I completely get it, like I get it. So I know, but growing up is starting to see that that is crossing

some sort of you know that is crossing some sort of boundary and that's why you you shouldn't behave that way into your thirties unless you're like planning to murder someone i guess well or or like i i do think that like i'm super into like uh... pictures of moms new kids on the block

concerts like you get on the block one on a reunion tour and like the pictures of 45-year-old women at new kids on the block concerts are my jam and like I love that they're still are those opportunities to be like I'm gonna get in touch with that I'm gonna remember what that was like but you enjoy it you enjoy it and you don't stalk Jordan McKite afterwards. The other thing I wanted to say to Christina is like, as I've gotten older, the way that I, I think that the amount of appreciation

and enthusiasm I think I have for things hasn't decreased. I think maybe it's a little more spread out and it's also, it's less focused on individual people and more focused on like this sort of broad gope, like I'm less into like Gordon Gano from the Violent Femmes as I am into like individual songs or understanding like the complexities of a rhyme scheme or even like a marketing strategy that maybe a musician use that is really like positive and smart, effective, and good for the world. Like if you can, like finding those ways

that I appreciate people in very different ways now. And I often, it's not so much about like sort of all focused on this. My imagined version of what their personality is because of course it's not so much about, like, sort of all focused on this, my imagined version of what their personality is, because of course, it's always imagined when it's not, it's even when it is a person you know, even when it's yourself, there's a lot of imagining that goes on.

But I find that, like, I'm still soup, like when I find something that I love, like, you know, when I get into a new podcast or a new book series or something, I still love it in really deep and passionate ways, but it's focused in a different way. And I don't think that that means that it, and VidCon we try to have all of those kinds of discussions

going on where it's like, yes, there's places for screaming and go and crazy and there's places for, like, let's have conversations about the effect that these things are having or that difficulties people are facing or the exciting things that are happening. Yeah, it's also realizing that people aren't perfect is a really big. Like I still, obviously, you should obviously still have

passions and love stuff, but realizing that it's my stuff's become less person focused too because you get disappointed by people. And that's why I don't date fans because I feel like what am I gonna do? Just disappoint them because everyone's like, oh, but you seem like you would like take advantage of that kind of thing. No, that's horrible. That's like, that's like, first of all. Thanks for saying that about me. That's like, that's like, first of all. Thanks for saying that about me. I was like, I'm like, I don't know what the word,

the proper word to use on this podcast is Lossario, but like I'm not like, like, trying, you know, I'm not like, going after fans because there's a power dynamic and I think they, a lot of it's like, yeah, you just start to slowly not focus on individual people as much I think in my in my experience I had to Google Lithuania so I did that in a A male given name which is suggests an unscrupulous seducer of women. Yeah, that seems right. That checks out Dear Gabby and I guess Hank I want to get a fairly realistic tattoo of Saturn, but it feels like NASA updates their images

of Saturn every few weeks. Should I get a tattoo based on the current available images of Saturn and just accept that it will be a snapshot of what Saturn looked like at the time I got the tattoo, knowing it will change throughout my life, or should I wait indefinitely until Space Photography has advanced. General Woody, General Woody sign off, Janina, this is incredible. I just wait indefinitely until Space Photography advances before getting my Saturn tattoo. I actually have an answer for this question that's pretty straightforward.

So NASA is currently updating their images of Saturn a whole lot because there is a mission that is at Saturn and taking lots of great pictures of Saturn. It's called Cassini and it rocks and Saturn is a lot of people's favorite planet. I assume aside from Earth and it's a beautiful planet. But the images, so basically it was like a 20 year, maybe 30 year period when we didn't get any new pictures of Saturn. And then we started to get these new ones and they're great. And then we're not going to get any new ones for a long time.

So you might want to wait six months until the current crop of Cassini photos get a really like a bunch of good post production done on them, because I don't think that there are any new ones coming in anymore, but it does sometimes take a little while for the artists to like take the raw data and make it into something that's like, oh, damn, that's a beautiful planet to happen. So you might wanna wait about six months and then you will have, I think pretty much all we're gonna get out of Cassini

and then we won't have any new photographs of Saturn for like decades, unfortunately. So we just happen to be living in an amazing time for Saturn photographs, Janina. Janina, do you have any tattoos? I don't have any single tattoos. I'm tattooless. Interesting. Because I feel like, and this is my non-science answer, I have a bunch of tattoos and I feel like when people go, oh, but won't you regret it? I feel like that is a snapshot in time of what I

was at that time. So it might be cool to get a picture of Saturn now knowing that when you look back, you'll know that it was specifically from this time in your life. Does that make sense? Yeah, which is why I should get a tattoo of the current shape of Antarctica, because that's kind of changed a lot before I die. Yeah. This is what it looked like when I was a kid y'all back when there was more of it That will be so depressing Hank So do you have tattoos Gabby? I know you have tattoos, but tell me about tell me about your tattoo sitch. Oh, I have Seven of them. I'm about to get more I think but Seven of them. I'm about to get more I think, but yeah, a lot of them I just did kind of on a whim And then that's how I think about it is like

You at 22 thought this was cool and so that's not something like that's not something to be ashamed of at 29 Like that's you know, it's kind of like a like a photo album or something about what you... I mean, I have a tattoo on my hand and I was like, oh, I really committed to show business, I guess. But yeah, a lot of it is just kind of what I thought was important at the time. And so when I saw that question, I was like, it'd be cool to just have Saturn now as it is to you at whatever age you are. And then as it changes you can see how it changed

throughout, like, you know, throughout your life. That would be kind of cool. Yeah, I mean, to be clear, Saturn itself has not changed that much. It's just our ability to take good pictures of it has changed. I don't want people to come away with the wrong image that Saturn is out there doing like some kind of weird dance and some days it's a square.

It's mostly the same. What would you get a tattoo of if you got one? Oh, I don't know. I, so, I have felt like more like getting a tattoo since I turned like 37. Cause like at this point, what do you have to do? Pretty clearly a sign that I'm headed it. I'm headed into a midlife crisis.

Like I think it's, I think that that's what's happening. Yeah, whatever. What do you have to lose at this point? Exactly. You know, I wrote a thing when I was in college that said I want a job where when I turn 40 I can get a mohawk and it won't be bad for my career. And I kind of feel like that's the case, but I also kind of feel like I can't have a

mohawk in teacher crash course. Why not? People be like, who is this 40-year-old man with a mohawk trying to teach me about chemistry? Know what about that guy? NASA that has the mohawk. Yeah, I mean, yeah, except that that guy is a detractive young man. Yeah, and I am a I am a attractive old man. I was like about to yell at you. So good that you specified But what would you get? I don't I feel like I had something. Oh, I was thinking about the the end of the origin of species was real good

What is that? I'm going to read it to you, but I can't remember it. It's a words. I was saying you should get words. I like when men have words tattoos. You like men, you like men, men word tattoos? I like when men, yeah, when men have like just black and like just text, it's very attractive. My cousin is a tattoo artist and he won't do words.

He refuses to do words. So I guess I can't go to my cousin. But it's this from, it's the, like, the last paragraph of Darwin's on the origin of species where he laid out the theory of evolution. It says, there is grandeur in this view of life with its several powers having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one.

And that whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple beginning, endless forms and most beautiful and most wonderful, endless forms, most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved. Which is just like, sometimes we forget that Charles Darwin was a f***ing great writer. Which is, and now you may be cursed again on this podcast. Sorry! You got two of them out of me.

Oh, I've done my job. I'm saying so on brand. You should get like, the part that just says like endless forms of wonderful and beautiful or something like that. Yeah, sure, sure, that's a lot of words. I agree. I wanna get just pain don't hurt from roadhouse. So I'm also an intellectual

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's good I think it thought about getting a DFTBA tattoo. I feel like that's on brand but just just a reminder and There's part of me at one point in my life where I wanted to get every logo of every business I started tattooed on me. And then somebody was like, that's the worst thing I've ever heard,

so don't do that. Where would you get it? I mean, the only place I'm interested in getting tattoos is my forearms. Because I like forearm tattoos are my jam. I like forearms. I think that they're one of the best parts of the body. Yeah.

And also there really, there's a good tattoo place because forearm skin for some reason, it tends to stay nice and good. Skin for some reason. Yeah, that's like, that's like the, I was gonna say so that's what I like. I like dudes with like word tattoos, black ink word tattoos on their arms. That's very classy and sexy. You should do that. Pain, don't hurt.

I could get pain, don't hurt. Pain, don't hurt. I'm such trash, okay. And that leads us of course to our sponsors for this episode. Our sponsor, our first sponsor is Tatus on the Mail For On. Word Tatus in Black Ink on the Mail For Arm. The best kind of tattoos if you want to be admired

by Gabby Dunn. Which everyone does. It has also brought to you by the movie Road House. It's a really good movie. It didn't just come out. It's from the 80s, but it's on Amazon. No, it's on Hulu. So check it out.

Can you tell me if the movie point break was a spin-off of Road House or were they just sort of like ven diagrams that sort of fuzzled into each other a little bit. Do you know point break? Do I know point break the greatest queer love story of our time? Yeah I do. Yeah it's an incredible movie about how Keanu Reeves falls in love with Patrick Swayze And I don't know. Like, yeah, it's funny because there is a female love interest in that movie. I understand that she's peripheral and basically discarded as soon as she fulfills her mission of being a damsel.

Yeah. And her name is there. Hold on. She has short hair and her name is Tyler. Do you not get anything by me, Catherine Biggle. Oh. Catherine Biggle being the director of Point Break. Um, anyway, our God got this additionally brought to you

by those good, good closed door sleepovers. You can squeeze like a month of them in, maybe, before people will start to suspect. Ha, ha, ha, ha. And brought to you by the planet Saturn. It's a square now. Ha, ha, ha. I, uh, I was so, we were like freaking out

when your brother said that his book was coming out in the fall and Allison and I were like, if it is on the same day as ours We will come burn your offices to the crew What date what that is your book come out September 5th Okay, yeah, you're you're way ahead. Yeah, you've got full month before before John started sucking up the oxygen Yeah, yeah, we're okay, but it was cute I saw an Amazon it said like these two often bought together

and it was John's book and our book. And I was like, oh, that's amazing. That's adorable. So it would tell me about your book, by the way. Oh, yeah, Allison and I wrote a young adult novel together called I Hate Everyone But You. And it's about two girls that go away to college and spoiler, they're similar to me and Allison.

And they go away to college on separate coast, and one of them is dealing with mental illness, and she wants to be normal and have a boyfriend and join a sorority, but she also can't touch the sheets. And then, so it's like having a lot of problems, and then with depression and anxiety, and then the other girl goes to school in Boston, and she's coming out and dealing with ethical quandaries.

And so, yeah, it's like basically if we had known each other during our actual college days. And then, can they stay friends, even though they are so different. It's like a French, it's a friendship love story. It's like a friendship rom-com. Yeah. Yeah, you got, and you got that good odd couple thing going. And it's told through their communications, right? So there's like a name for that kind of book that I forget what it is. And a pistol airy novel. There it is.

Yeah, it's told through text messages and emails and yeah so that was once person told us that they love that because it wasn't too expository. You just really like jump in and get to get to know them which is nice. And personally I've been really happy because we've gotten a lot of really good like on a lot of good lists and a lot of good reviews, specifically citing how the queer stuff is handled. And that was like a really big deal to me. So I was super happy with like people singling out.

I mean, saying the book is good in general, but singling out like the queer and trans stuff, which was, I was like, really, I put a lot of myself into, so I was happy that people cared. So that comes out. Oh God. So that comes out September 5th, and then we start going on tour right after that. And then, yeah, so you can see stuff about the book and the tour at GabbyNalleson.com. And the tour starts, the day the book comes out,

September 5th, in Philly. Are you coming to Missoula? No. And it's not just a book tour. It's also a live show. We're doing a live show. So it's like, you know. Yeah, John and I are doing the same thing.

Yeah, bang for your butt, whatever. Which I can't talk about at all yet. I apologize for having talked to that much about it, but there will be a tour, obviously. Is it going to be the same time as ours? Because again, I will come to your house. I don't know how late does yours go. Our starts October 10th.

Oh, okay, yeah, yeah. We won overlap. Good, good, good. Okay. Yeah, I wanna come to Missoula as you think we talked about. I wanna like check out what the like, the gay, the LGBT scene is there in your hip little Montana town. I bet it.

I can get you clued in. Yeah, I bet it's popping off. Well, I think it's pretty late. I was hanging out with a friend of mine who is in that scene yesterday and she said, oh, I just don't go outside the triangle and I was like, what's the triangle? And she laid out for me the map where the roads are and she's like,

if you stay inside of all these roads, it's like queer utopia. And if you go on the other side, then it's like you start getting looks. And I'm like, well, welcome to Montana. I'm glad we have a triangle for you. Gabby, do you wanna do do one or two more questions? Yeah.

This one comes from Andrew, who asks, dear Hank and Gabby, everybody knows that mugs have handles. What do you call a mug without a handle? Is it a cup? Surely it can't be a glass, is that what mean it would be made out of glass? Be safe out there, Andrew. Be safe out there is one of my favorites from the episode.

That is a real good sign off, and I'm going to use it more. Be safe out there implies what's safe out there is one of my favorites from the episode. That is a real good sign off and I'm gonna use it more Be safe out there implies what what's happening out there? I Just did just in general. I think safety is important Yeah, I make everyone text me when they get back to their house from my house. Do you do that? No, no, I don't I live inside the triangle, it's good. Like just like, because what if they go missing and then I end up having to be like, like in their trial, giving testimony. And then I'm the last person that saw them.

I had, wait, can I tell you something messed up? I had it. Okay, as long as you're not admitting to murder. No, no, I had it an boyfriend who was like very like very funny But like very dark sense of humor and he and I was joking and I was like if I ever die and I go missing without a trace Like he did it, but if I die and it's just blood everywhere and it was a crime of passion then Allison did it and then they we were a passion than Allison did it. And then we were laughing and then he goes, what makes you think I wouldn't spread your blood around in frame Allison? And then Allison and I both went, oh my god. Really holy s***. Oh god. It's too much true cry. Um, but yeah, so-

So, but back to the mug. Yeah. I don't know how we got to murder, but yeah, that's very too hanging John of us. Um, I think a mug without a handle is just a piece of crap. Like, it's just useless BS that shouldn't exist, because the whole point is this for hot stuff and if you don't have a handle, you're not adequately protecting yourself from the hot stuff and if you don't have a handle, you're not adequately protecting yourself from the hot stuff.

Have you ever been to a restaurant where they give you like hot tea or coffee in a glass cup? No, because that is illegal and or it should be. No, they do that here in LA all the time and I don't under like do you want me to be hurt like I don't understand. Yeah. It makes me feel serious. It makes me so mad.

It's a hot beverage. Why are you putting it in a, they put it in a glass cup? I've seen it, Hank, it's real. And it's, it's just basically like putting your hand straight into the coffee. Like that's what they're asking you to do.

Yeah, it has happened to me. Why? No, it's terrible. That's what they're asking you to do. Yeah, it does happen to me. Why? No, it's terrible. That's awful. You know, when I saw this question, I was like, you know, I kind of feel like I've seen like a ceramic mug that I would call a mug that doesn't have a handle. Yeah.

Because it's got like those thick mug walls and it's mug shaped, but it doesn't. And so I googled it and they're called mugs without handles. That's it. That's what they're called. There's no special name. you can like go if you like search for mugs without handles It's just like mugs without handles available at these places for minimalist design nuts these mugs don't have handles Oh Here on yeah minimalist. I don't want to handle on my mug. I want to be in pain. I live in my minimalism

I live in a tiny house and every inch counts. So my mug's don't have handles. They're also very small. I mean, you just have like a little, like my tiny mind, I'm like, look, I don't, like I can't even have a coffee. It's just espresso. We don't have space for coffee.

If you go to someone's house and they hand you a mug without a handle, call the police. They are a murderer. Just throw it on the ground, like, throw in the Thor movie and then walk out and say, I won't have another. Or just go to all their mugs and break them all and say, they're more mugs better than this are available at dftba.com. I mean, this is just with handles. Useless, useless. I mean, I don't know if we solve this person's, they're called useless.

Next question. Okay, we're going to finish off with a question from anonymous, dear Hank and Gabby. So I made quite a mess in my sexuality. When I was hitting puberty around 13 years of age or so, I was very certain that I was lesbian. I dated a girl in secret when I was 15. Both parties' parents found out our lives turned into an HBO special, you know the drill. My parents weren't cool with it, and one thing my mom said was, if you're by, please just try to be straight. She said this with the best intentions, but it's put me in a fun situation because I spent years trying to convince myself,

I'm straight, I've dated several boys and it wasn't until I had a sexual encounter with one of these boys that I felt 100% almost magnetic repulsion sort of feeling of, no, this is incorrect and icky and please don't do this, that I realize that I'm super duper gay. So now I'm almost 23 and I'm in this situation of finding

on the outside men and women completely equally attractive but being 100% not interested in anything involving men. How do I come out to my parents and explain to them without seeming like I have a choice to date men still. I know asking two straight guys might be the best choice but I'm desperate and looking for any dubious advice anywhere I can find it. I have great news for you. Yes. I have, yeah, you've come to the right place. Hello. I don't know if the people listening know them, but I'll just say I'm a cis-bisexual woman

so that people know my credentials. Where's your degree from in bi studies? It's from the Kristen Stewart School of Bi-Sexuality. I have a master's degree in three sums. Okay, so I have a master's degree in dating couples. Okay, so this basically you live in a patriarchal society, in a heteronormative society that teaches you that the right thing to do is to be straight,

and no one is immune to it, and no one is strong enough, usually, to shrug all that off, which is why there's so money. There's so much higher rates of suicide and depression in particularly bisexual, but also all kinds of queer people. And so your mom, I don't know if best intentions was the right way to put that, because I think although I think you're trying to say that she was sort of like, I just want you to have an easier life and I don't want you to, because I actually, I just was hanging out with two friends of mine. One is a lesbian, one is an immigrant, and I was like, who do you think has it worse between the three of us joking?

And without missing a beat, they were both like you do. So being by is tough. And I think that you could maybe just dumb it down for your parents. Like I think you can just say, like, look, I'm gay, because if you don't want to date men, maybe it's not worth trying to explain to them that sexuality is fluid and that a lot of times, if you're, because like bisexuality that a lot of times,

if you're, because bisexuality has a lot to do with desire versus action in my mind. So if you, there are some people who do bisexual acts sexually, but they're not, they don't identify as bisexual because they're desire, they don't desire to be romantic with men and women. And so there's like this split between like, you know, you can be like heteroromantic bisexual or like a homo-romantic bisexual or and it sounds like you think you can see

that they're both attractive, but you're only romantically interested in women and sounds like sexually interested in women. So I think it might be because they're from a different generation and because it seems like they don't really get it or you might be interested in just distilling it down for them and being like, look, look, I'm a lesbian. And maybe that's not like the whole truth to you,

but it's also the easiest way to get them off your back. Since like my parents are sort of weirdos and are like open to a lot of stuff, so I feel like I could sit them down and explain this type of thing, but most baby boomers I'm assuming are your parents are not like, I don't know, they just, you just have to know who your parents are, and if they're the type that need things to be black and white, then for your own sanity, maybe just present it that way. Mm-hmm. I mean, I also think the whole thing of like,

with your buy, just please try to be straight. It's like, it's not a choice to for who you are attracted to or who you fall in love with. So it's like to be like, if you're super into this woman, but they're like, can you just choose to be straight? It's like, you're not going to be like, oh yeah, let me just put that on the back burner and give the old straight, straight tinder a go, which by the way is a nightmare place. Never go on straight tinder. It's horrendous.

But yeah, I mean, I don't know. It's interesting because there was this interview with Cynthia Nixon where she was talking about how people assumed she's a lesbian. And she was like, no, I'm sorry. She's like, I'm more bisexual, but I've just decided that dating women is better. And everyone lost their minds. And was like, yeah, you're saying that being a lesbian

is a choice but a lot. But I was sort of like, yeah, you're saying that being a lesbian is a choice but I was sort of like, yeah, but if you are like, I am attracted to both but I just am only romantically interested in this one particular situation, then you can define that however you want to define that. I don't think that's, I don't know, I've met men who are like, yeah, I'm straight. I mean, I've like done stuff with dudes, but I only want to date women. And I'm like, then you're, then say that you're straight.

And other men that have said that same thing have said that they identify as by. It's really very like whatever feels right rolling off your tongue about yourself. But I also think to your parents, you gotta just get them off your back and distill it, I think. Yeah, give them a thing that is easy enough to process. Yeah.

And I mean, I don't know if you're worried that they're going to be like, but you dated all those dudes. So, because then you can just be like, I didn't. Because no homosexual person has ever had a heterosexual relationship ever. Right, like you just be like, I try, like even now that's your ammo. You can go, I gave it a shot. Not for me.

I'm really trying. I did it a bunch. Yeah, I really tried, oh my God, that was so funny. I really tried so many dudes, not for me. Hahaha. Mama gonna tell you I just I mean I what I tried I tried it with every guy can try Oh, I tried it I'm worked tried it all the ways Oh, all right. Well, it is now time for the news from Mars and AFC Wimbledon.

The news from Mars, I'll go first, is that there is now a game that was designed in partnership with NASA. And if you have a HTC Vive or any of the other modern VR devices, you can go to Mars yourself at home in your little Vibespace if you have one of those. I don't. But I so I have not been able to try this. But the basic idea is that you land yourself on Mars and this isn't just like a landscape that looks like Mars, it's taken from data, from the MSO orbiter, and it's basically an area of Mars that actually exists.

You land on it, you can go over your little habitation module, you can drive your little rover around, you can do soil and rock collections, and then once you do that, you open up new areas of the map and you get to see other cooled areas of the planet. And basically, you just get to hang on surface of Mars, which no actual human is going to get to see other cool areas of the planet. And basically, you just get to hang on the surface of Mars, which no actual human is gonna get to do for quite a long time, hopefully, but for 20-28, but quite a long time.

And yeah, and I would like to do it, but I don't have any VR gear. So if anybody gets the chance to play Mars 2030, please tell me how it goes. Are you, would you go, like, I guess not to be of a baby, but if they were like, you go live on Mars 2030, please tell me how it goes. Are you, would you go, like, I guess not to be of a baby, but if they were like, you go, go live on Mars now, you would be like, eh. I mean, I have a friend, I have a friend

who has several children and he's super, like, he's actively trying to become an astronaut and I'm like, cheers. I don't know that I would do that. To live on Mars, he. To live on Mars? No, no. He wants to be an astronaut, which to me is just like it's dangerous.

It's a very dangerous job. But no, I don't think he wants to go live on Mars. I would not go live on Mars. There's a bunch of reasons why I wouldn't go live on Mars. I used to want to go live on Mars, but that changed as I got older and more motion sick. Yeah, and you saw the Marsha, and you were like, oh, growing potatoes for so long

just like half the movie. This is a weird action movie. Yeah. So what's the news from AFC Limbleton Gabby? Oh well um as you know our lead starter our lead starter, Mark Harrington, he's been really sick. And so he's had the flu. So he's been out of several games. And that means that our second starter, this guy, his name is Carl Ranks. He's been playing. And know he hasn't really had a chance to shine but now he scored three goals in the last game so he so now

everyone's like yeah so now everyone's like well maybe we don't even need Bar Carrington maybe we just need Carl Rwrinks and barcaranton's past. I heard that gossip in the locker room that he's real mad. So he might be traded to a totally different team and his best friend is on AFC Wimbleton and his best friend is Lisa Simpson, not related to the Simpson. And so she is

she's like, well, if he goes, then I'm gonna go, but that's really awful because she's our best goalkeeper. So my thoughts are maybe that once Mark Harrington's better, they should just let him, the coach, whose name is Kate Moss, she should let, she should maybe have them both play like a double starter, which I know hasn't been done since the 1940s. I know no team has had a double starter since the 1940s,

OK, I get it. But I think in my opinions controversial, I think we should do it. And that's all the news from Team Wimbledon a real team that exists Good John will be back next week with real news from AFC will then he'll catch everybody up Let me know if they do that double starter. Okay, what I'll be really interested I'll ask John directly if they do the double starter or not and what? I'll be really interested. I'll ask John directly if they do the double starter or not.

And he will be really interested to tell me the answer. Gabby, what did we learn today? What did we learn? We learned that you should get a forearm tattoo of just text because that would be super sexy. We also learned that all of your faves are problematic and have written erotica. We also learned that you forgot about

the shell. Oh yeah. We also learned that you're a creep who calls people at their hotel rooms. Um. Just one time. That was a little boy. I was like 12. Who did you call the lead singer of the MP Giants? Oh, oh, he's nice. What did we learn the meaning of the word lethario? I did. You already knew. And I also learned the meaning of the word epistolary, which is in reference to Gabby's new book. Yes, thank you for helping me to really just promo the new book.

Please, oh please. Gotta hit it harder. Pre-order it. Pre-order it please. And- What's it called? Did you tell us what it was called? Yes, it's called I Hate Everyone But You.

Okay, you did say that, but I was wanted you to say it again. You're so good at this, please help me. Okay, and we learned, don't do the work for your coworkers. That's right, good. Yes, we learned all of those things. And we learned more. What else do we learn? Lighter your parents so you can have gay sex.

That's it, that's all. That's all. All right, in addition to promoing everything I hate about you, we also, there's a game that I'm developing that I have developed with some friends. Available on Kickstarter, it's called Rolf, it's really fun. You can watch on Hank's channel me playing it, which is my YouTube channel that no one knows about YouTube.com slash Hank's channel, it's just me. And you can find out more about that. And I would love it if you check it out, maybe see if you wanna back it on Kickstarter.

And also, I will be in Australia for VidCon Australia, September, ninth and 10th. If you are interested in coming to see me, John won't be there. So just like this podcast, except without Gabby either, you aren't coming, are you? No, but I'm going to podcon, you're the thing. Oh, oh yeah.

Also podcon is still a thing, and podcon tickets are available again. If you were, didn't get them during the Indiegogo, but when I get them now. And we'll be talking more about podcon as it approaches. It's coming up in December in Seattle. So I'm excited to see you at podcon, Gabby. Thank you for hanging out.

And you're great. Thank you for being a guest. Thank you for being a guest on my new sexy podcast, you're hanging out. And you're great. Thank you for being a guest. Thank you for being a guest on my new sexy podcast, Your Gabby. All we do is curse and talk about your idols who wrote Aarodica. This podcast, Dear Gabby, is Ed and Bennick List Jenkins. Our producers are Rosie on a Halstero Hassan shared in Gibson. Our social media manager is Victoria Bonjorno. The music is by the great Gunnarola.

If you would like to email us, you can email us at hankanjohnetgmail.com and as they say in our hometown, don't forget to be awesome.