Dear Hank & John - 124: Liars and Litterers and Thieves

Episode Date: January 23, 2018

Can I hoard stolen goods? How do I make sure I don't become a racist? How do I get cookies? And more! Email us: [e-mail] patreon.com/dearhankandjohn Hank's book is available for preorder! Learn more at hankgreen.com. This episode is sponsored by Backblaze! Backblaze provides unlimited cloud backup for Macs and PCs for just $5/month. Check it out at backblaze.com/dearhank or backblaze.com/dearjohn.

Hi, it's John here with a very special cold to open. So during this episode of Dear Hank and John, Hank and I talk quite a bit about his upcoming book, an absolutely remarkable thing. We also mentioned that the pre-order will be available soon. Well, every time we say that, just imagine that we are actually saying the pre-order is available now. That's right, Hank's book is available for pre-order now, wherever you pre-order books, you can also go to Hankgreen.com. There are links there. Okay, that's it. I just wanted to pre-correct the incorrect facts in this pod. Also, I just wanna say this is a really, really wonderful book.

I'm not saying that only because Hank is my brother. It is a really special novel. I am so proud of him and so excited for him. I really hope that you'll pre-order the book. It's called an absolutely remarkable thing. It's by Hank Green. It is his first novel and it is available for pre-order now. Alright, onto the episode.

Hello, and welcome to this weekend, Ryan's! That's not the title of this podcast at all. Dear Hank and John! That's it! Now I prefer to think of it as dear John and Hank. Or this weekend, Ryan's, whatever. It's a comedy podcast for two brothers. Answer your question, you'll be the reason for asking for you all the week's news from

both Mars and AFC Limit and John. How are you? I'm cold. I'm cold, Hank. I've been cold for two months. It's complete. This situation is utterly unacceptable to me. Every day I go outside and it is somehow colder than it was the day before.

The snow is so cold, you can't even make snowballs out of it. It just falls apart in your hands because it's made out of ice, it's ice snow. Oh, it's horrible, horrible. Everything is terrible. I'm so tired of winter. Why do I live here? I mean, I didn't even know that Indianapolis

really had winter. It usually has a nice mild winter where it gets down to 10 degrees a few times. This, the entire month of January has been just horrific, terrible. So I just wanna say to everybody in warm weather climates, if you're listening to this in the Southern Hemisphere, if you're in Florida or Arizona or something,

just give us a bit of that warmth. We're desperate up here. We're dying. So would you say that of the things that are sort of like native to Indianapolis? Yeah. Whether clearly is not one of them that you really enjoy. Also, I don't see you going out to sort of like the tremendous variety of chain restaurants that are available to you. You don't seem to be indulging in that sort of like which is a big perk of Indianapolis. You do enjoy the motor speedway. So maybe is that like the thing that's keeping you there?

What is it about Indianapolis? Of the things that are specific to that place, that you really is sort of indulgent? I love the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, but you really only need the Indianapolis Motor Speedway one day a year, you know? And I could probably fly in. Like if necessary, I could probably fly in for the race. What happens, is there like, do they have an amphitheater or do they have like the whole month actually the whole month of May and Indianapolis Is a great thrill because the cars are running almost every day you can take your kids to the garage

They can meet the drivers they can see all the engineering and stuff and that's fun Other than that the main thing that keeps me here is the people which sounds I know a little bit cheesy But it's true. We have wonderful friends, and the thought of moving to a different place where I would have to make new friends just is unbearable to me. It took me so long to make good friends. And then I have to say, I find it to be a physically beautiful place much of the year, so that even though I'm only eight or ten minutes away from the 11th largest downtown in the United States, so it's a properly big city, I get to live with coyotes and foxes and deer and all that stuff.

So that's the other big thing that I like about it. But it's no Mizzoua, Hank, I'll tell you that. It's no Mizzoua when it comes to cold. What are the things that are specific to Indianapolis that you choose not to indulge in? Like in Mizzoua, I choose not to indulge in downhill skiing. It's just not, it does not suitable for my temperament. Right, no mind neither. I'm not a downhill skier or snowboarder for that matter. The main thing that I choose not to indulge in Indianapolis

is the sports. There's a tremendous sporting culture here for the Indianapolis cultts, the Indianapolis Pacers. And it just, it's not that I don't like the Colts. I know a couple of the Colts. Some of them may be listening. They're nice people. I do. I do. Hello Colts. I have a couple Colts friends. It's like, is one Colt a Colt? Like, if you're just like one of the Broncos, you're a Bronco. Oh, yeah. One of the Lakers, you're a Laker. Yeah, yeah, it works.

Okay. I have to say the two cults I know the best, I'm not sure that they're completely committed to being Indianapolis cult so much as they enjoy being in the NFL. I don't know that it's the cults themselves that are the overwhelming draw. So much as it's being able to play professional football.

But yeah, anyway, I guess that's what I don't indulge in. Would you like a short poem? Yeah, hit me. All right, it's Fire and Ice by Robert Frost. You know this poem? Uh, is Robert Frost his actual last name Frost? I think so. Yeah, but that's why I went with it

because we've got a cold theme. Yeah, okay. Fire and ice, emphasis on the ice. Poem goes like this, some say the world will end in fire, some say in ice. From what I've tasted of desire, I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice,

I think I know enough of hate to say that for destruction, ice is also great and would suffice. Mm, nice poem by Robert Frost about fire and and ice and hate and God it's so cold. Do you know how many Pulitzer prizes Robert Frost won? Mmm, two, four! Also, his last name isn't actually Frost. His name is Robert Lee Ryan. No, no, you can't catch me.

You can't trick me with Ryan jokes. I'm too ready for them. Hank, let's answer some questions from our listeners. This first question comes from Anhill, who asks, Dear Hank and John, I have some novels I want to recommend to this person, but we're not really close and he isn't even a reader. I think that he'll really like these novels, but I can't come up to him and be like, hey, you don't know me, but here's a book. Read it, read it, read it, read it. How do I approach him suddenly and segue into giving him recommendations and actually get this person to read the books?

Hoping for you to be as advice. I mean, that's a great question for me because, of course, my career is literally built around trying to get people I don't know to read a book. One time I was at Barnes & Noble and there was somebody who had picked up the Fault in Our Stars and they were like looking at it and like going, and like they walked around the store for a little bit and then they put it back and I was like, what do I do in this situation?

Do I just let this happen? Do I just let this person not buy the fault in our stars who was clearly considering it, but has now made the ultimate decision that no, instead I'm going to buy some other piece of trash. And I'm not sure the other book was good. But it is difficult. I think if you're going to intervene in that situation,

Hank, you have to do it before they put the book down. So you have to be like, well, they're holding it, you have to be like, oh, that's a great book. I really, really enjoyed it. I certainly do that whenever I'm in Target and I see somebody holding turtles all the way down. I'm always like, hey, I think you like that. I really loved it.

I think it's better if they put it back on the shelf and then I grab it and I'm like, run up to them. And I'm like, you put this down. You lost this, you forgot it. And they'll be like, no, I meant to know. I'm like, no, no, yours now. Your hand prints are all over it. On how the thing you have to do

is you have to become closer to this person. I mean, you can't just go foisting media on people. You don't know well because you think that they'll like it. You have to develop a relationship and then foist the media. Yep, yeah, I have no idea. I have a very hard time getting people to read books because books are a big commitment.

And people also have a hard time getting me to read books. You sent me some books for Christmas and I haven't read any of them yet. Oh, there's a couple really good ones. Oh, I'll do my best. I'm in the middle of so many different books, John. Hey, Hank, speaking of books, when is your book going to be available for pre-order so I can start talking about it? I don't know the answer to that question, John, but it should be relatively soon. It's so good. I mean, I admittedly, to be honest,

I did go into it with somewhat low expectations. Um, okay. It's so, it was so much better than I expected it to be. Tell me about your log expectations. Let's start there. Well, you know, I've read a lot of books by YouTubers. Some of them are great. Some of them are terrible. So, you know, I went

into it thinking, oh great, another YouTuber book, just what the world needs. But it's brilliant. Thanks. It really is. I mean, I'm not just saying that. I was completely, and the thing about it, I won't go into it too much because we got to save the praise for when people can pre-order. But the thing about it that has really stuck with me is that it is a really fascinating exploration of how fame and the culture around fame warps individual consciousnesses. But also it is a incredibly well told story. Like my books are mostly about how plot gets interrupted by character. And your book is so well-plotted. Like, it was such a pleasure to read.

I roared through it. So anyway, I'm incredibly excited for you and really genuinely blown away by how good it is. Thank you. Thank you a lot. The thing that we're working on right now is the copy that's going to, like, the pre-order will go up, but there's all the words that go up. In his much anticipated debut novel, Hank Green, has a book, Spins a Sweeping Cinematic Tale about a young woman who becomes an overnight sensation and realizes that she's part of something bigger

than anyone could possibly imagine of reading directly off of the thing right now. And so I have to figure out what that's gonna look like. I have to approve these words. I never thought about the fact that I didn't think I'd be involved in that process. Oh yeah, no, there's a lot of authoring that you don't know about yet.

There's a lot of making sausage in any business. And then when you're actually making the sausage, you're like, oh, this is a lot of work, isn't it? Yep. Yep. All right, let's move on to another question. I got a crack this sausage crank. Yeah, exactly. Go to the good luck cranking the flap copy sausage crank.

That's what that's called by the way, the flap copy. I've always liked that term. All right. This next question comes from Olivia who writes, dear John and Hank, is Kylie Jenner pregnant? I have no idea what conclusion to draw from the available evidence, which is mostly reports from anonymous sources and insiders.

And I have no idea what that means. It's driving me crazy, which is a situation I never expected to be, and I appreciate your dubious thoughts on all subjects, including, hopefully, this one, Olivia. Um, John, I mean, it does seem that we know a surprising amount about Kylie Jenner's, uh, reproductive strategies, considering that she has not said anything about this publicly. And so I feel like it's done on my business, whether Kylie Jenner is pregnant. Yeah. Yeah.

No, I agree, obviously it's none of our business. But I, and my initial feeling was also like, oh, this question, it's unfair, it's unfair to Kylie, et cetera. But then I am completely obsessed with other unanswered questions, like whether Donald Trump knowingly colluded with the Russian government during his campaign for president, which is also a question that will be answered in the fullness of time. And I would argue is like, maybe the question itself is more important than the question of whether Kylie Jenner is pregnant,

but the way that I am interested in it is in that exact same salacious way that one is interested in any piece of gossip. So I don't wanna be dismissive of the question. I will say Kylie Jenner had a crib delivered to her home in Los Angeles recently, which I think is highly dubious. Is there a certain, well, I mean,

sometimes your friends are coming over and they have kids or your, you know, her sister's often playing that situation. That's true, you get a little crib. Well, if you're really rich, you probably do. You probably have, it's probably has like a bunch of extra rooms in her house. Do you think Kylie Jenner is that rich?

I think that Kylie Jenner is probably rich. I just assume I'd hear her name a lot. I think that she has a makeup line. Oh, oh, oh, she's very rich. Did you Google Kylie Jenner net worth like everybody else in the world? I did, I did, I did. Kylie Jenner is a wealthy person. Oh, there's, I did Kylie Jenner is a wealthy person.

Oh, there's no way that Kylie Jenner is as rich as it says she is, but she is very well off. Yeah. Well, I'm happy for, is the important thing. I'm sure she works hard. And if she, whether or not she's pregnant is not our business, and she will tell us when she is ready. It's weird because of course, we all feel like

we deserve some kind of access to celebrity's lives because they do offer us access to their lives. Right. But I also think that people should be able to draw the line where they want to draw it. Yeah, but I do feel like, like is there a possibility that Kylie Jenner is like intentionally getting a crib delivered to her home

in order to create more news around Kylie Jenner that she's going to CVS and O.R. hoodie in which could be concealed a baby bump in order to generate more buzz about Kylie Jenner. It seems maybe, seems like maybe. I don't know. I mean, this is actually, this gets back to issues raised in your book.

Um, it's in fascinating ways. We do as public figures. And by the way, like, I don't think you and I are ultimately that different from Kylie Jenner, except in terms of scale, and also success, she's been far more successful. But I think people are inevitably to an extent calculating about the way that the public looks at them. I'm not sure that they're that calculating. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I think that it's an unknowable thing and it's just kind of another thing

that we can talk about and we'll talk about and like that can generate more discussion and like it's interesting that that even that discussion is part of that feedback loop. Right. So one thing that we all definitely know, not just the generous and Kardashians of the world, but all of us is that speculation is more valuable than fact. So the speculation over whether Kylie Jenner is pregnant

is certainly taking up a lot more space than ultimately the fact will. Yes. Yep. This next question comes from Brooke, who asks, Dear Hank and John, I've been friends with this guy for six years, and I assume that I knew most things about him

that could affect our friendship. However, the other day, we were driving around and he pulls over, finishes his drink, and throws the cup out the window. Yo, boy. We became friends because we share the same sense of humor along with pretty similar core beliefs and values. But I do not know how to react to this realization

that my best friend, apparently now this is your best friend, and my best friend, willingly not this is your best friend, and my best friend willingly liters without remorse. Should I just accept him as he is, or try to explain how I feel about this possibly creating an awkward situation where I come off his self-righteous, any to be his advice would be appreciated best wishes, brook, how do you even watch this occur

without saying something? Yeah, I feel like that's when you say, like, stop the car, walk back to the cup, pick up the cup, walk back to the car, apologize, write a letter to your local, like just keeping the force, saying that you're sorry and you've done this in the past and you've changed your ways. Yeah, I mean, we all do terrible things.

Hank, look, we're all deeply flawed people. We're all contributing to systemic injustice. But you don't have to throw a cup out the window for God's sakes. I mean, there's trash cans at every place. They're all over. Yeah. And there's a, there's a whole car of places to put a cup. That's what I was thinking

Forget about trash cans my feeling is that my car is a large trash can and then just periodically I take out the trash Yeah, yeah, no I can I can I can confirm that that is how you feel about your car the The thing that I wonder is, like is there a universe in which Brooks friend thinks that Brook now thinks he's cooler because of his irreverent disregard for the laws of littering? Right, maybe.

Look at me, I don't care about anything. I'm just, look at me, I'm just, like I, the system just doesn't just the system. The rules don't apply to me. Rage against them to stick it under the man. That's right. Well, I'm not man. Which man you're sticking it to,

probably just all the people who now have to look at you to trash on the side of the road. And also the people who have to clean it up, which, yeah, it's... I think in general, I wanna have a relationship with my friends where when they do something that I think is just unacceptable, I can be like, dude, that is unacceptable.

And I totally, so that would be my bigger concern, Brooke, is not so much that this person did this, although it is duly horrifying, but more that the question of, do you feel comfortable confronting them and saying, like, oh, come on. Yeah. Like, if this is your best friend,

if you've been friends with this person for six years, you should be in that place where you can not have to worry about coming off a self-righteous. And of course, like not everybody has the same level of self-confidence and power and a relationship, but I think that that is a completely normal thing for a friend to do. And I would not, it's weird now because you didn't do it

in the moment and it would be like, okay, do we have to talk about, one time I did this with a friend of mine who like, who like, we split the check and then like, it became clear that he did not leave a tip. And I was like, do I, and I didn't say anything in the moment and then I was like, but now I wanna like,

make sure that he knows what the rules are because like, there's rules and maybe he didn't learn the rules, but also maybe he thought because we were splitting the check that it was different somehow. And so I ended up having the conversation and then he lied to me about it. He just lied and he was like, no, no, I always leave a tip.

And then I was like, oh, I think that you're not a good guy. Yeah, maybe he was just embarrassed and that's how he deals with embarrassment. As you know, Hank, I'm a little more sympathetic to liars than you are. I don't know why. I think it's just because I'm a more generous empathetic person. Yeah, uh-huh. Yeah. Before we move on, can I tell you a story about my dirty car? Okay, is it true? It's true. It's true. I don't know if it's funny. I do know that I think about it all the time, though. I think about it. It's almost every

single time I get into my car. So many years ago when I was living in Chicago and when Sarah and I were first dating, I was still living with my buddy Hassan. And Hassan and Sarah and I were walking up to my car and Hassan said every time I approach your car I always expect to be there to be a little rat sitting in the passenger seat holding clutching a purse and looking up at me and saying where are we going today? What's and my car is still filthy's still filthy and every single time, every single time I walk up to the car, I think like, is the little rat

clutching the purse gonna be here today? Yeah, this is like, the rat is so at home that basically you have become like driving Miss Rat. Right, exactly. All right, this next question comes from Natalie, who writes, dear John and Hank, if someone stole a base clarinet from my high school and gave it to me, do I have a moral obligation to return it?

The band director didn't even notice it was gone, and the girl who stole it graduated, Natalie. I feel like we're going over some real basic stuff today, John. Yeah, not even kidding. Natalie, hard stolen goods. I mean, this is not only you got to return the base clarinet in this situation 100 times out of 100. I'm sorry.

The only way in which maybe you don't have to return the base clarinet is if you paid for it, not knowing that it was stolen and later found out it was stolen. That is an interesting rule. This is not an interesting rule. No, yeah. I'm afraid whether or not the stolen property has been identified as stolen.

And also, do you know that the band director didn't notice it was gone? Or does the band director tell you about all of the things that get stolen? Like are you on the band director tell you about all of the things that get stolen? Like are you on like the band director email list of still like that where their communication with the police like you don't know. Also in a way isn't it worse if the band director didn't notice it was stolen because it just means the band director is so downtrodden about the amount of stolen goods flying out of the band room. Oh man. Listen, the great thing about your situation is that you can be a hero here.

You walk into the band director's office. You say, I have two pieces of good news. I did not steal this base clarinet, which you can say in complete honesty. However, I am returning it to you because the person who did steal it graduated and gave it to me and I didn't feel right about it So here it is

PS If you want to give me a reward for my generosity a base clarinet would be a great reward And so maybe you've got like a 5% chance of getting Right, you know a guilt-free base clarinet And also pps. No, I cannot tell you who stole the base clarinet. I'm sorry. That person is my friend. Right.

Yeah, you can't, you say I'm not going to name names, but they did graduate. And then maybe you give a couple hints. This next question comes from M, who asks, dear Hank and John, is it impolite to move when a smoker sits down next to you? Currently, the library at a computer and somebody came in smelling a lot like cigarette smoke. And I can't just leave because I need to use the computers. But, uh, please help. I have tried to stop breathing and it is not going well. I await your answer.

M. Yeah, you could totally move. I do that. Like in a movie theater, if I bump somebody who sits down next to me who smells a lot like cigarette smoke, I will move. Absolutely. So there's broadly speaking two kinds of former smokers. There's the kind who can no longer bear the sight or of cigarettes or the smell of cigarette smoke or the smell of a person's jacket after they've smoked cigarettes.

And I am not that kind of ex-smoker. I am the kind of ex-smoker who, if somebody sits down next to me, and even if it is the most rancid, stale cigarette smoke, smell, I'll just be like, oh God, it smells so good. Good yelling over here a little bit. Yeah, it's just like the best perfume in the world to me. And when people smoke near me,

other people will get up and move, and I'll be like, I'm sorry, if it's okay with you guys, I'm gonna stay here and enjoy the second hand smoke because it says, good as it gets for me these days. Oh man, I've never smoked, so I have not that person. I'll even move if somebody's vaping nearby.

Okay, yeah. No, then I'll move because I don't like to see people vaping near me because the problem with like vaping nearby. No, they don't move because I don't like to see people vaping near me because the problem with the vaping is that I can see the cloud. It's not the smell or anything. It's that I can see the cloud of their breath approaching me. And that's like so horrifying to me because I know all of the bacteria that are traveling

with their vape smoothing. It is super weird. It's like shooting me traveling with their vape smoke. It is super weird. It's like they're shooting me, they're shooting me these rings of vape and I'm just like, oh God no. Yeah, cause there's something about cigarette smoke where some of it's coming out of the lungs and some of it's coming out of the cigarette

and so you're like, right? You don't know 100% where the smoke has been. Maybe it's just the smoke of the city. But if it's vape smoke, 100% of that vape smoke has been. Maybe it's just the smoke of the city. But if it's vape smoke, 100% of that vape smoke has been inside a person. Yeah, no, that's just breath visualized. That's terrible, now that you said it.

It's breath visualized. One, two, I can't help but trying to guess what flavor the vape juice is. Oh, that's terrible, that's so gross. And then that does lead to like suddenly all conversation stops and you're like, is it like peppermint banana? What is it? Oh, God.

Oh, God. Is that like Jolly Rancher watermelon flavor or is it, what is that clove? What's happening to my nose? And you can never quite figure out and you have to go talk to the strange vapor and be like, what is it? Just tell me. What is the juice you got in there, bud? I can't believe, I mean, I would think that you're doing a bit except you are the kind of

person to walk up to a stranger and say, what is the flavor of your vape juice? I totally am. You really are. It's distressing to me. Like, and it's not that we share so much DNA, and yet you're willing to do a thing that I wouldn't do for like probably low five figures. Alright Hank, this next question comes from Ada who writes, dear John and Hank, are fogs clouds, and if so, can they rain? Does everything just get wet? What about lightning? Water is weird, Ada.

Are fogs clouds, John? Are fogs cloud? Well, I'm not a scientist, but my inclination is to believe that fogs are essentially extremely low hanging clouds. Yeah. So the weird thing is, when does a cloud become clouds? Like, if you got one of those days

where it's just a hundred percent gray above you, is that just one cloud? It's cloudy. Right. But those aren't clouds because they're not independent from each other. Fog is one cloud, kind of weirdly definitionally. Like, you are, like, fog is when you are inside of a single cloud.

And so yes, it is a cloud. It's not clouds, but would be if you looked at a bunch of different fog from far away, and it's like clouds hitting the land. But what I have never heard of, yeah, I mean, the reason, and I think that there's a good reason for this, is like fog clouds form in a different way than like cumulonimbus clouds do,

and so they don't have as much perturbation, and they don't have as much energy in them, so they're not big enough to create lightning. So you shouldn't have to worry about fog lightning, though now that I've set it out loud, the world is a large place and maybe fog lightning has happened somewhere. But fog clouds do rain.

You will notice that if you ever lived in the Pacific Northwest where you'll be like, it's foggy and then you'regy. It's raining and foggy. What is this disgusting I hate it? But I don't think that you have to worry about fog lightning. I don't think. So I once walked through a cloud while descending a mountain in Denali National Park in Alaska with a girl who'd broken up with me like two weeks before, but for some reason we decided to continue on this trip.

Mm-hmm. It's not totally relevant to the story, but my experience walking through an actual cloud was that it was somewhat thicker than walking through most fogs are. I mean, I think that it comes down to the fogs, John. There's a lot of different fogs. Sometimes they're pretty thin,

sometimes they're extremely thick. Yeah. Okay, well I'll believe you. But I don't think that fog lightning is something that we are relatively safe from. This next question, John, comes from Christine, who asks, dear Hank and John, I work as volunteer at the local food bank.

I love my work. We help over 450 families in our city alone. I see those families register them and check their finances every few months. About half of our clients are Dutch. I'm from the Netherlands, people with huge debt problems, and the other half are refugees

who recently got their status as a refugee and are waiting for their financial situation to be fixed by the government. Well, I don't know, well, I know that my work is appreciated and many, many people depend on it. I have found some strange things people do, which should expel them from our food aid,

like only taking a few items out of the whole creative food we provide them, or spending all their money at a casino. The strange thing is that this hasn't happened to any of our Dutch clients. This, combined with the fact that many of our immigrant clients don't speak Dutch or English or German or French, and I don't speak Turkish or Arabic, has made me think a bit weirdly of our non-dutch clients.

I'm not the only one my colleagues who have been doing this for many years vote the anti-immigration party. How do I make sure that I don't become a racist when I have so many bad experiences with immigrants? I like thinking that everything is nuanced, but it's getting hard. Loving food, Christine.

I thought this was a really interesting question, Hank, and it's a difficult one. The first thing I wanted to say about it is that I don't think racism is only a character flaw. It is also structural. It is also built into political and social and economic systems. So I think it's important to remember that. The second thing I wanted to say is that it's really difficult but incredibly important to be empathetic to people's experiences and how difficult an experience it is to be a refugee. And sometimes people are going to deal with that poorly, and they're going to make really bad choices. People are going to be as human as anyone else except the population that you're working with Christine.

In many cases, are people who have survived what is to me unimaginable trauma. They've survived the trauma of dislocation. In many cases, they've survived the kinds of loss that most of us will never have to imagine. And now they're in a place that feels very distant from the way that they have lived before. And that's challenging. And one of the ways you might deal with that, for instance, is to not eat a lot of the food because a lot of the food isn't good to you or it doesn't make sense to you or you don't know how to prepare it. And because you can't have the conversations that you need to have to build that empathy,

to bridge that empathy gap because of language, all of these problems, I think, can compound upon each other. So just as you're struggling to empathize with people who maybe are making bad choices or in other cases are maybe just dealing with the regular traumas and dislocations of being a refugee, you have to also remember that in a lot of cases, the people you're working with can't communicate effectively with people who are the people who would be giving them services and help and for instance helping them with a gambling addiction.

And so I think you have to work to bridge that empathy gap. Now that work goes both ways. The refugee populations also need to work to bridge the empathy gap in their host countries. And so I don't want to say that all of the work lies with you, but I do think that it has to be too history. Yeah. The thing that I'd add, I think that was great, John, is also like that racism, like judging people based on the way that they look or the way that they are.

Like this is a natural thing that happens to people. We are pattern recognition machines. And when you are having a number of interactions And this is a natural thing that happens to people. We are pattern recognition machines. And when you are having a number of interactions and some of them are negative and some of them end up being negative with a person who looks one way more than a person who looks another way, you start to apply that one negative thing to all of the people, because you maybe only interact with people in a certain circumstance.

And so it becomes pretty easy to start to see things in a blanket way when they aren't actually aren't a blanket way. But I think that it's like the remarkable thing, Christine is like how, like carefully you're thinking about this and also how hard you're working to serve the people that you serve. And thank you for doing that. And I'm glad that the Netherlands has support systems for its citizens, both people who have been there a while and for the refugees as well.

Yeah, for sure. All right, Hank, let's get to one more question before we thank our sponsors. This one comes from Jessica who writes, dear John and Hank, about a month ago, I got a new job with my local Girl Scout Council. And while the job is fulfilling, there is one problem. I thought there would be more cookies. No one has offered me cookies.

However, there is a cookie closet filled with several cases. Oh, Jesus. Each kind of cookie, the problem is that in order to gain access to the cookie closet, I must tell the secretary why I need cookies. Any dubious advice and fake reasons are appreciated cookies and conundrums, Jessica. Well, when this question started out,

I thought that the thing was gonna be like, I thought there would be more cookies, but it turns out that we only have cookie that we like people ordered the cookie. No, there is a cookie closet. There is a cookie closet. You just have to say why you need the cookies. I mean, like, are there some examples of re- like, I feel like I need the cookies.

Well, I can't. Is that a good enough reason? Is it possible to make human beings? I'm a human being. I need the cookies today because I am hungry for thin mints. I need the cookies because I cannot sit this close to a cookie closet filled with cases of cookies and not eat at least one cookie.

Like I am only human. Yeah. I feel like you should start out with the real reason, right, and then you see if that starts. So you start out and you say, listen, I would like to access the cookie closet because I'm a human being and I love cookies. And then if the person who has the keys to the cookie closet is like, I'm sorry, that's not a good enough reason. I think you come back

the next day and you say, well, I would like to access the cookie closet today because I'd like to give some, I'd like to have some of the cookies for for myself, but also to enjoy them with my aunt who's going through a hard time. It doesn't matter if this is true or not. And then if that doesn't work, then you've got to go deeper and deeper into progressively crazier lies

until you're like, I'm sorry, I need to access the cookies. It is a matter of national security. What are the cookies tend to be used for? I feel like if I'm working at a Girl Scout Council, we got a cookie closet. The cookie closet is probably there for entertaining guests because when people are coming to speak at the Girl Scout Council or they're coming to have a meeting

with you about marketing or whatever, there's, you're like, the people coming to the Girl Scout Council are expecting cookies because this is what Girl Scouts are most known for, apparently. And so you have to break out the cookies for when guests come. So you need to be getting guests into the office who are important to the Girl Scout Council's business

and you go and we're like, our guest, who is an important person in the community who has been a supporter of the Girl Scouts is visiting, we gotta get some tagalongs up in here. Right, right. I mean, I like that idea too Hank because then the guest of honor eats like two of the thin mints or tagalongs or whatever.

And then you're like, okay, listen, we don't want to just let this sleeve of cookies rot. John, so I have a good home for them, my home. John, yeah, I have a good home for them, my home. John, I have discovered something that has, I thought I was crazy. I thought I was broken and wrong and that like my brain had made a thing where there was no thing.

There are two different companies that make Girl Scout cookies. There is ABC Bakers and there's Little Brownie Bakers. And ABC and Little Brownie Bakers makes Girl Scout cookies here in Mizzoula. There where we get them from. And almost all of Florida. Also they supply by far the most area of the United States. But ABC Bakers supplies Orlando where we grew up.

And so when I'm eating, I've always like, ever since I moved to Montana, I've been like, thinnmen are different. They're just different here. And I thought that I was crazy, but I'm not. It's really a thing. They're different their thinments in Montana are different from thinments in Orlando whoa wow all of them wow

that's I mean so basically you're saying I've got to look up where I am Indianapolis you have did wait where is Indianapolis I think think that all of Indiana is different from Orlando. It's in the middle of Indiana. Yeah. Yeah. So we've got the ones that are not the Orlando thinnest. Correct. Do you have different thinnments? And also, I mean, my palate is not discerning enough to have noticed, but I would like to congratulate

you on that. And also Orlando didn't even have tagalongs. They're called peanut butter patties in Orlando. I think that they've actually universally changed the name. Oh, okay. But regardless, today's podcast is brought to you by Orlando Thinmins, Orlando Thinmins, not available in Mizzoula.

No, no, they're different. And I think that I like the Orlando one's better, John. This podcast is also brought to you by John Green's car rat. John Green's carat would like to know where we're going today. It's podcast is an edition brought to you by fog lightning, fog lightning, a natural disaster I don't have to worry about.

And finally, this podcast is brought to you by that unknown vape juice smell. It came out of someone's lungs and now I'm really curious what it is. Oh, good lord. Hey, before we get to the all-important news for bars and AFC Wimbledon, I want to give you a few updates. All right.

First, we have two corrections from Caroline's. Oh, Caroline's the full-carrilines. Different Caroline's. Okay, different Caroline's. Caroline writes, dear John and Hank, I'm not certain whether the following qualifies as a correction, but in a recent episode of the Pada listener wrote in wondering about a hamster's ability

to survive in the wild. Imagine my severe disappointment when both brothers failed to mention the true name of the Syrian hamster. So the true name for the Syrian hamster, Hank. The Arabic name, literally translated, is Mr. Saddlebags. LAUGHTER LAUGHTER Oh my god, that's real cute Mr. Saddlebags.

Mr. Saddlebags. Our other correction coming from Caroline, dear John and Hank, I'm a long time listener and a big fan, but the most recent episode discussing Benjamin Harrison has left me a little bothered. I volunteer as a docent at the President Benjamin Harrison site. And my heart broke when

Hank said that Harrison might be at the end of the list of presidents people remember. I should also add here Hank that I have many friends who work at the Benjamin Harris and House and I do not understand how I got into this pickle. I have heard from countless people. I know in real life who were horrified by our complete failure to reflect the many accomplishments of President Benjamin Harrison. To suggest that he did hardly anything, is it disgrace to America's only Hoosier President Caroline Wright's quick facts include a huge expansion of America's Navy, creating America's second to fourth national parks, including Yosemite, attempts to protect the early environment and early trust busting efforts, including the McKinley-Tariff and the Sherman Antitrust Act.

Also John Harrison was one of the less corrupt presidents. He actually shunned the practice of appointing people to office based off of pressures from his party and instead made a point to appoint those from all sides, including appointing some of the first African-Americans to political positions. Harrison is often overlooked because there was no crisis to solve at the time. He wasn't involved in some awful conspiracy and didn't raise America out of disaster. He kept the course steady during his time in office, especially John, but Hank as well, you have to come visit the President Benjamin Harrison site to learn what's up.

It's in downtown Indianapolis, so it shouldn't be a problem. Ask for Lucas. He's my boss, and what's up. It's in downtown Indianapolis, so it shouldn't be a problem. Ask for Lucas. He's my boss, and he's great. Well, I now want very much to be like, hello, I'm Hank. I was told to talk to Lucas. Yeah. I want to make some kind of application that, like, type in all the president's names you know,

and then do some analysis to figure out who the least known president is. Is it Chester Arthur? Is it Warren Harding? Is it Rutherford B. Hayes? Is it? Well, Caroline's argument is that regardless of whether Benjamin Harrison is a lesser known president,

he shouldn't be. And as a Hoosier, I should have called you to task. Okay. Well, and I apologize. Stating a fact is different from agreeing that that fact should be the way that it is. And I wasn't saying that I think this person should be the least well-known president, whose name I cannot remember at the particular moment. Harrison, some Harrison, which Harrison is that I think there were two of them. Okay. Harrison, some Harrison, which Harrison is it? I think there were two of them. Okay, the only thing that happened.

William and Henry Harrison was president, right? But that's not who we're talking about. Who are we talking about? I've been to a Harrison. Because you're digging a whole deeper and deeper. There's a couple of responses I also wanted to get to, including a response from Molly, who had to make the PowerPoint for the guy Rick

who was retiring and it was her like her first day on the job and she had to make her retirement PowerPoint for a stranger. Dear John and Hank just as an update about the PowerPoint, I was able to scrape together some blurry pictures including some of him with his family. Oh, no. And one of them holding a baby who's maybe, he'll find out. And there's actually, I found out that his nickname was Teflon Rick because nothing ever sticks to him. Still, I'm entirely convinced that the guy I talked to wasn't messing with me on that one. It was a hiking-themed presentation about the next adventure and the opening title was

12 years here, Teflon Rick exclamation point. People seemed properly apathetic to the whole thing while they ate their barbecue. Thanks for the read, Molly. Oh, wait. So, why are people trying to stick stuff to Rick? I don't know that being named like, Teflon Rick is good news. I hope Rick listens to the pod and he writes in. Yeah, we really want to know why are people trying to make things stick to you, whether actually physically or like the murder rap or whatever,

like the crime that Rick may or may not have done. I'm confused. We've also got some information from Sarah, who says, dear brothers, green, some of you guys are going to have done. I'm confused. We've also got some information from Sarah, who says, dear brothers, green, since y'all were talking about the illustrious

Indianapolis Cemetery. I thought we would share the sign and the cemetery at the town I grew up in. It says, thanks for visiting. Come back when you can stay longer. Gravesite's available. Yeah. We'll put that up on the Patreon.

It's a pretty great, it's a pretty great sign over at patreon.com slash deer, Hank and John. Last response we need to get to Hank is from Niale. You may remember, this is a while back on the podcast, but somebody wrote in saying that they were really struggling with the maleinated STEM program that they were in. And they wrote an update. Nearly two years ago, I sent an email expressing my frustrations about being in a mail-dominated STEM program. I wanted advice on whether I should stay or not, but I stayed and it was the best decision ever. I just finished my first year when I was getting ready to drop out,

but I stayed deciding to see what could come of the second year. There were new people in the second year, and guess who wasn't upsetty spaghetti anymore because there was a new girl. And we both basically rule STEM now. I mean, not literally. She's the president of our TSA chapter, and everyone in the engineering program is in TSA. And look, I don't want to explain the social hierarchy. I don't like long emails. We just got out of school STEM certified too, and not to throw a shade at the STEM academics team, but we basically convinced a board of actual adults that we knew what we were doing with LCDs. And I built a solar powered stoplight

and my engineering teacher is essentially my mother now. I've done so many things. I love so many people staying was the best decision I've made. I mean, that was just a great email. It made me so happy. So thank you, Niale. That's really wonderful. John, yes.

You got an EFC, one with the news for me. How did they play the MK Don's yet? Is that happened? Hank, Hank. Yeah. There is nothing Don's about the franchise currently applying its trade in Milton Keynes. Sorry, sorry.

My apologies. You're welcome. They did. They played the franchise currently applying its trade in Milton Keynes. It was a, I listened to it. I watched the first half on my I follow up. I listened to the second half on the radio, WDOM, and hoping for a change in luck.

But alas, it was a nil, nil draw. Right, like the 88th minute Andy Barchum had a wonderful opportunity hoping for a change in luck. But alas, it was a nil, nil draw. Right, like the 88th minute Andy Barchum had a wonderful opportunity to win the game for AFC Wimbledon. But it wasn't to be, it was a, you know, look, a point away from home is not a disastrous result. The problem is that AFC Wimbledon are now 26 games into their League 1 season. that AFC Wimbledon are now 26 games

into their League One season. And that means they're only 20 games left. And we are currently sitting two points adrift of safety. So we have 28 points. The Milton Keynes team and a couple other teams have 29 or 30. And we need to get up to 20th place, Hank. We just need to finish in 20th and not get relegated.

So it's getting, there's 20 games left in the season. A lot can happen, but I would be lying if I didn't acknowledge that I was getting nervous. Well, I feel like you guys are kind of holding on there. It's not like you're at the bottom, the bottom, the bottom. Kind of hold on. It could be worse.

It could be worse. And if you get relegated, is that you make a lot less money? Yeah, also, it's hard to get up to the third tier, right? Like, you don't want to get relegated because then you have to try to get up again, either through direct promotion or through the playoffs, which is always a crap shoot.

If we could just finish in 20th and then keep one more season in league one and then we'll have our stadium built and anything is possible. So that's the news from AFC Wimbledon. All the games are big games now, 20 games left in the season. What's the news from AFC Wimbledon. All the games are big games now, 20 games left in the season. What's the news from Mars? You know how Mars has a lot of water on it.

It turns out, we've figured this out a couple decades ago and keep finding new water in new places. But one of the things that's always been a little bit questioning, what questiony is how that water exists. So does it exist sort of in like mineralized salts where it's not really easy to get at or is it sort of like just another piece of dirt. So like your dirt is part, ice part dirt, which is actually would be really hard like kind of permafrosti. You'd have to like scoop it up and then melt the ice and then you'd have a bunch of mud and you have to somehow get the dirt out and the water out and so that's really complicated and maybe there's a bunch of rocks. So you have like really rocky ice chunks that just would be

hard to work with if you were on Mars and wanted to get water. So that's a lot of what we've found is just sort of like just below the surface there's a lot of little pieces of ice mixed in with the dirt and that's good. It's nice to have any kind of water but it would be a lot better if there was like clean, fresh, not salty, not mixed with a bunch of dirt or rots of water. And so recently a paper came out, some researchers looked at with like high resolution artificial color images, they looked at images from the Mars reconnaissance orbiter, and were able to identify in areas where there had been like basically what you would see like at the Grand Canyon where you can see the layers of sedimentary

rock laid down, were I able to identify layers where it was just like a pure ice layer, and we're talking like tens of meters thick of pure water ice with no rock inclusions or anything. And that's just, it's significantly below the surface, but it's on the order of reachable, like meters down. And so there is not just water on Mars, but there is also clean, not mixed with anything else, water ice. And the way that that happens is the same way that it would happen on Earth, which is snow would fall in the same place year after year after year,

and then that snow would get compressed, and it wouldn't evaporate or melt or anything, I'll just keep getting compressed until it became ice in the way that a glacier would. And then after that, sediments were laid down on top of it, probably through wind, probably. And so there's a bunch of that,

and it's indication both of like a lot of precipitation on Mars, but also good news for people who want to go to Mars someday and have clean water to drink, but also to convert into hydrogen and oxygen for fuel, but also to breathe. So that's a thing and it's real. Lots of big slabs of clean water ice. So I was reading about this Hank, because I've become a little bit of a Mars fan. Nice.

And the thing that struck me reading about it is that yes, this is sweet, clean water ice, but isn't it also really far away from where humans would likely be if they were going to go to Mars? Like wouldn't humans probably live pretty close to the equator, and this is pretty far from the equator? Yes, where humans would be actually is up for debate,

like whether we would be close to the equator because the weather is a little better there, maybe, but really, probably isn't that big of a deal. It's pretty cold and crappy on Mars. Right, because the weather's bad no matter where you are. So what's the difference between super cold and super cold? That's a question I have to ask myself every morning. The much more interesting thing is versus how nice the weather would be is how interesting

it would be scientifically. So areas where there were longstanding pools of water lakes oceans rivers things like that are are probably going to be the places where we'll be most interesting explore. Interesting interesting. Well good luck to you. May it not be until 2028. So thank you for podding with me. What have we learned today? Oh gosh, John, we learned that you cut Yada not litter. Yeah, we also learned that you can't keep a stolen base

clarinet just because you didn't steal it. And we learned that thin mints and thin mints are different depending on where you live. And we learned that Hank's new book truly is excellent. Oh, thanks, thanks John. Thanks again Hank, thanks to everybody for listening. If you want to find out more about our podcast or listen to our weekly terrible podcast

this week in Ryan's, you can do that over at patreon.com slash deer, Hank and John. Thanks again to everybody for listening. Hank, why don't you read the credits. This podcast is edited by Nicholas Jenkins. It's produced by Rosiana Halsey Rojas and Sheridan Gibson. Our head of community and communications is Victoria Bon Giorno.

The theme music that you're hearing right now and at the beginning of the podcast and at the beginning of this week in Ryan's is by the great Gunnarola. And as they say in our hometown, don't forget to be awesome. you you you