Dear Hank & John - 125: Book Hangovers (w/ Sarah Urist Green!)

Episode Date: January 29, 2018

How do people love reading when it hurts? How do you make friends in art class? How do you proceed after accidentally slow dancing with someone? And more! Email us: [e-mail] patreon.com/dearhankandjohn Thanks to HelloFresh for sponsoring this episode! For $30 off your first week of HelloFresh, go to hellofresh.com and enter dearhank or dearjohn.

Hello and welcome to a very special episode of Dear Hank and John. Or as I like to call it Dear John and Sarah. It's a comedy podcast about death where my wife Sarah and I answer your questions, give you do these advice and bring you all the week's news from both Mars and AOC Wimbledon. Hank is busy this week, I think he's working on the line edits for his new novel and absolutely remarkable thing which comes out in September and is available for preorder now and it's so good and I'm not just saying that because he is my brother. It really is a wonderful book. It's also Sarah in the top 20 on Amazon right now. I'm so thrilled for Hank. It is incredible

and super exciting. Yeah, so we're very happy for Hank. Do go pre-order an absolutely remarkable thing. You can do it at your local independent bookstore or also elsewhere. Sarah, do you have a short poem for us today? Should we do one that somebody recommended or should we do one that I happen to have around? Let's do one that you just happen to have. Okay, okay. This week's poem comes from Mari Evans. And it goes like this. I who would encompass millions and adrift on this my single bed. Oh that's so good!

Oh we should have you do all of the short poems. That was excellent! Wow! Who among this has not felt that? I know. It's called college. God, for me, it was called 20s. Alright, let's get to some questions from our listeners, Sarah. This first question comes from Ebony, who writes, Dear John and Hank, recently I was shown the TED Talk How to Tie Your Shoes. Initially skeptical, I was certain that I had nothing to fear. Of course, I know how to tie my shoes, but imagine my complete whore when I discovered that I had in fact been tying my shoelaces wrong for my whole life. I am now completely distraught. I do not know how to cope with this

revelation, and I am now immensely fearful of other such life-changing discoveries. How do I cope with the terrifying realization that at any moment my life could completely change. Any dubious advice would be much appreciated no longer in perfect harmony, Ebony. So Ebony, I think your first problem is watching Ted Talks because they give you this false sense that you can master your life and that there are right ways and wrong ways to do things. Or that there are only right ways and wrong ways to do things? Or that there are only right ways and wrong ways to do things like that there is a one right way to approach the world.

Right. Sometimes Ted's editorial voice does veer a little too far into that worldview. Well, it could seem like there's like the secret club of people and Ted presenters are the only ones who belong to this club and they know how to do life. Right, like they're the masters of the universe.

The truth is, Ebony, I watched this TED Talk, Sarah and I watched it together, and I'm completely unconvinced that this person's way of tying shoes is better than the standard way of tying shoes. I am, however, convinced that Sarah's way of tying shoes is better than either my way or the Ted Talk guy way. Well, I had my cousin Mark teach me how to tie my shoes his way when I was like an adult. And it's a good way you actually go to loops around before you pull it through and it never comes loose

except for when you want it to. It's brilliant. It's not a double knot, but it's a double loop and the double loop means that you can still like pull the tassels or whatever and you get your free shoe laces rather than getting that like complicated knot. Yes. My way of tying shoes, which I consider to be the standard way,

is just the way that everybody's familiar with. The Ted Talk guy way is to do a somewhat underhanded knot, and then the knot is apparently slightly stronger. But here's the thing, Ebony. Your real question is, how do I cope with the terrifying realization that at any moment my life could completely change? And like, that is a big question and a good one. And I think the way that most of us cope with it is by ignoring it as much as possible. Well, yeah. And this particular problem was not really a problem for you before. Right. So, yes, it's hard to deal with change, but if it's working for you.

Yes, why do we introduce problems into our lives unnecessarily? Why can't we just say, you know what, life isn't about maximizing efficiency. As you know, Sarah, I drive 45 seconds, when I drive the kids to school, I take away that is 45 seconds longer, and Chris Waters always makes fun of me for this. He says, why do you turn onto that street? If you turn two streets earlier, you would say 45 seconds, so you do this 200 times a year and it costs you more than an hour. And the answer is, I like that hour. I like the hour that I spend unnecessarily taking the kids to school because it's pleasant for me. The kids are usually in a relatively good mood. They usually are, we're talking about something or listening

to music and yes, it is not the most efficient or effective way to get the kids to school, but it is the way that I like. That's true. Although the reason why you don't turn on the street where you should turn is because you don't have the map in your head. So you don't see your inefficiency. No. If you had the map in your head, it might bother you more. It's true that I have absolutely no map in my head.

When we moved, when I was a kid, we moved houses when I was about 14 years old. And for the rest of the time that I lived in Orlando, Florida, before I drove anywhere, I drove to my old house. Because I had no idea how to get anywhere except from my old house. It's like when I got my driver's license and I got in the car for the first time and my mom was with me and I turned to her and I go, how do we get to the store? And she goes, like, kidding me.

You've been a passenger for how long? And I was like, well, I didn't have to pay attention. Right. It was completely unprepared, but it's no longer a problem, thanks to smart phones. It's true. Neither Sarah nor I has a particularly good sense of direction, but the long and short of it is Ebony that just keep tying your shoes or don't. Whatever. This next question comes from Ben. Oh wait, it's your turn. Yeah, ask a question. It's my turn. Okay, the next question comes from Ireland. Dear Hank and John, I have been going to a high school art class weekly for

the last few months, but I feel like I haven't gotten to know any of my other classmates. Everyone in the class are very shy or awkward, and all of my attempts to engage any of them in conversation have failed. I want to focus on my art projects while I am there, but also make new friends. Any good conversation starters I should try. Should I try to make art jokes and hope for the best? Dubia's advice would be appreciated. I am not a country, Ireland. Well, Sarah, you have been doing a lot of art classes. You did art classes in high school. I did. How do you make art class friends? Well, you don't chat people up while they're making art.

I will say. It's generally frowned upon to talk to other people during art classes unless you're doing a sort of collaborative project. Mostly you kind of sit there and you've got to think of your ideas and work on it yourself. And you know, the conversation happens kind of outside the classroom or somewhere else. So I wouldn't try to make art jokes. Although do you have any, do you have any art jokes, Sean? I don't have any off the top of my head. No, I never took an art class which will surprise you given my mastery of visual expression. Well, you don't have to be masterful in visual expression to take an art class, common misconception.

Well. You have to be present and you have to try and you have to be unafraid to fail. Oh, it's the third one. I was ready for the first two. It's that I really just like failing. So I made I made friends in art classes, walking to class together, walking after class, milling about after class, or you know, if you really want to try and be outgoing, you can, you know, put out an ask to see if anybody wants to go see an art show together locally, see if anybody wants to go see an art show together locally, watch an art-related movie. Maybe you're watching an episode of the Art Assignment Available. Yeah. I'm through PBS Digital right now.

Maybe even do that. But I think you've got to try to be social outside of class. What about, this is something I've tried over the years in writing classes and I've found it to be very effective. What about complimenting the work of people you want to date? That, I mean, complimenting other people works, but you have to have a sincere and interesting compliment. That's good.

I like that. Not that convincing, but if you have like a good critique that's mostly complimentary, it could work. I remember when we first started dating. In general, I've been pretty good over the years at finding specific compliments for people's work, whose work I admired. I actually think that's been one of the secrets to my success is complimenting people in a way that they like, that they're happy to have heard that compliment. I remember looking at your artwork on your website and thinking it was really good and interesting and feeling visually drawn to it and feeling like almost like I kind of wanted to like

live inside of those paintings or look at them from different angles and stuff and having absolutely no vocabulary for trying to express to you what I thought was cool about your work. That's why you watch the art assignments on PBS Digital Studios. I give you tips and pointers for ways to talk about artwork. You can look up the video, how to critique. Okay, that's

enough of a plug for my web series. That's good, that's good. That's good. That's good. That's good. Back to pre-ordering Hank's book. Yes. But I think in general, though, I think it is really fun to connect to people through their work and connect to people through the stuff that they make. We've always done that, the two of us, but also with a lot of our friends, a lot of our closest friends, are people who the stuff that they make, whether it's the kids they parent or the art they make or other work they do, we find points of connection there and that's always been important for us. And talking about art is a fantastic way to not talk about yourself, you know. It's like another non-you or them subject.

Right. Alright, this next question comes from Ben and I wanted to ask it because it's something I have a little bit of experience with. Ben writes, Dear John and Hank, I work in an emergency room on the south side of Chicago and because of this I've witnessed some of the worst moments in people's lives. I feel like hope with this fairly well, all things considered. My problem is this, I feel like I'm lying to my friends and family more and more. Every time I get a simple question like how was work, how was your day? I feel the need to protect them from what I see and do. No one wants to hear about what I actually had to do in the course of a day and in fact it might gross them out. So I answer with fine or okay or something

else equally vague. How do I remain genuine and authentic to my friends and family without grossing them out and exposing them to the worst sides of humanity? Ben Jamman! Benjamman. It's a good name specific sign off to a very serious question. Nice to lighten it up there at the end. Yeah, maybe that's the key. Maybe just every time somebody says, how are you doing? You just say, Ben Jamman. Well, John, you actually have some direct experience here,

but maybe I'll go first with my more dubious advice. Okay. Which is that I think that it's risky to lie to them or to gloss over it. If you really want to have genuine and deep relationships with the people in your life, and you kinda do have to reign on the parade and tell them about what's going on,

they probably will be interested. Although it's hard to hear and it does drag down a conversation, maybe I'd pepper in some of the possibly funnier or just gross and not horribly depressing things that happen. Or you could create like a rating system for your day, for the people in your life. Like somebody you see every day, you could be like, okay, 10 is super bad. One was great, everybody came into the ER healthy today.

And then you could say, well, it was a nine. It was bad, but let's move on kind of things. So you can be honest, but not really depressing. I think it's all contextual. I think there are times when somebody, you know, when you're buying an ice cream cone and somebody says, how was your day? That's not a moment for you to be like, well, listen, it was brutal, right? And there are times even in conversations with people we're close to and people we love when we want to kind of gloss over things. And I think that's

okay. I don't think that's lying. Even if you said, that was a little rough but I'm really happy to be here. Like that isn't lying. It's just, I don't really feel the need to get into it right now. And when I worked at the Children's Hospital, that's what I did a lot. And it was only occasionally when someone would say to me, has it been difficult or have or I know you just got back from an on-call, one of the closest people in my life might say you I know you just got back from an on call one of the closest people in my life might say I know you just got back from being on call for 24 or 40 hours or whatever it was did did anything difficult happen is there anything you want to talk about and then it becomes a moment where you can

have those conversations then Jim and in talking about this, there's one thing I wanna say, which is that unlike me, you are not presumably a 21-year-old, deeply narcissistic kid with a lot of emotional baggage. You're great. But I often use the incredible difficulties that I was going through at that time in my life. And the real trauma that I was going through at that time in my life and the real trauma that I was Close to and that I that I witnessed as a way of taking over conversations or

Acting like my problems are more important than other people's problems and at times feeling like my problems Or more important than other people's problems and that's just not true And so I think that's also important for a member You have to make space for other people's problems. And if you're minimizing other people's problems because they don't feel serious to you, I think that you're forgetting one of the core things about being a person, which is that we don't live our lives only in the context of we're suffering. We also live our lives in the context

of the previous things that have happened to us. We're working at a hospital's hard and I really admire you. And I, that was, it was the hardest six months of my life. Yes, we appreciate what you do, Benjamin. Yeah, thank you. Okay, this next question comes from someone we don't quite know how to pronounce their name, aunts. aunts?

I think it's aunts? aunts? I think it's aunts. Dear Hank and John, what's the right thing to say when someone's complimenting your furniture? Like, oh, I really like that sofa. Should the answer be thanks? I always feel weird saying that as I didn't make the sofa or anything, but I did choose it from many other nice sofas.

This has recently been on my mind a lot as I moved into a new apartment with my boyfriend a few weeks ago with greetings from Latvia. Oh yeah now that I realize that onsis from Latvia it's probably not ants. Is there a more American vowel sound than a... yeah. So anyway I think this brings me to that response when you say, oh, I'm sorry if someone says they're sick and they say, oh, it's not your fault. You know, that's not what they're saying. They're just saying that they're sorry that you are sick and it must be a terrible scenario. So you're just saying that it's not there for you. And just like this, when they're saying,

I really like that so far, they don't think you made it. That is correct. Unless you happen to be in a posterer. And. No. We have not accounted for this possibility, the Latvian-apolsterer possibility. You might have mentioned that, however.

I feel like that would have been in the question. Yeah, so I think yes, you say thanks, but as I was reading this, I came up with a thought, which is that if you don't like that question, you need some sort of a large and obvious curiosity in your new apartment that's going to second all the interest and prevent anyone from making sofa comments. No one will ever say a word about your sofa when they look and see your life size cut out of

Olympic swimmer Mark Spitz. That's the best possible one in Latvia too, because I assume that the vast majority of people will be like, and who is that? Who is that? Who is that Harry man in a speedo? But you know, I don't know what your Mark Spitz cut out is, but I think you and your boyfriend need to find something because maybe they're complimenting your sofa because your apartment's a little there. And they don't know what else to compliment? Yes, make some art together. Maybe I know if you really, here's another great distraction. Get a big roll of paper.

You and your boyfriend get naked. Paint yourselves in an intoxic paint, press your cells to the paper, let it dry, hang it on the wall, no one will compliment yourself up again. Do we have a thing in our house that is the thing that people compliment and makes them not notice everything else? The answer is that we do, but I genuinely don't know if you're going to guess it. How about our antique TV that doesn't work?

The antique TV that doesn't work got a lot of play in our old house. Yes. What gets a lot of play in our new house, Sarah? We got a dang secret room. Oh. You always forget about the dang secret room. I don't even know about the secret room

is that you have to tell people about it because it's secret. Right, but when you tell people about the secret room and you let them like, you know, move the book that results in the secret room opening up, everyone, everyone gets the child like wonder in their eyes. It's true. It brings a lot of joy, but I think we can no longer call it secret, John, because it's just that room that opens via bookcase with a book that you pull, because you tell

everyone who comes to our house. FedEx, man. Hey, thank you. Want to come downstairs and see the secret room? And they're always like, yeah, I do. The other thing that gets a lot of attention in our house and rightfully so is our incredible dog toilet. Okay, we absolutely know for their explanation, we're going to move on to another question. This one from Ryan, a real Ryan Sarah. Wow. You probably don't know why that's such a big deal. Is this, is this, this must be a dear Hank and John joke.

I must clarify before we get it, you farther, that I have listened to this podcast before. You have. But I, I don't know the Ryan joke. Our joke's funnier when you have to explain them. This joke certainly won't be because I also don't even really remember the Ryan joke, but anyway, Ryan's our a thing. So a real Ryan, we have a lot of people who claim to be Ryan's who write in,

but this is a proper Ryan, although who knows for sure? They didn't send in a driver's license, which is what we usually look for when trying to confirm Ryanness. Ryan writes, dear John and we usually look for when trying to confirm Ryanness. Ryan writes, dear John and Hank, I'm a 24-year-old Ryan. Now that is the exact kind of thing a Ryan would say. In our experience, Ryan's frequently identified themselves as Ryan.

So, okay, I'm a 24-year-old Ryan. I'm also terribly dyslexic. I'm not illiterate, but close. I try to avoid reading, but pursuing a master's in chemistry makes that difficult. I've not illiterate but close. I try to avoid reading but pursuing a master's in chemistry makes that difficult. I've gotten this far with the use of text to speech software that is built into my Macbook. I'm trying to read more, consuming more stories, comics, graphic novels, audiobooks, etc. I have a problem though. There is a weird sad hollow feeling that ruins me when a story I enjoy ends. Is this normal? How do you process it?

How do people love to read if it hurts like this? People lived and breathed inside my head, and now their story is over. I will hear no more from them. In time, will I just become callous to this feeling? Sad and hollow Ryan. I love this question. This is just, this captures the beauty of reading entirely. And that sadness is just, you know, what makes it a bittersweet experience. But I think Ryan's on to something

with the graphic novels or maybe like something that's released in serial format, something that comes out again and again. So you don't have to give up on your character. So something that's released in serial format, something that comes out again and again, so you don't have to give up on your character. So something that lasts forever, the Baby Citters Club is the example from my childhood. I loved reading the Baby Citters Club books because they would give me a little bit of that. I often hear people describe it as a book hang over, a little bit of that sad empty feeling that you get at the end of a book, but it wouldn't last for long because there was always Baby Citters called number 32 just published. And so there was excitement around that. That said,

I have come to really love that feeling that a great book leaves me with. It's a weird feeling, and it is melancholic, but it isn't for me totally unpleasant. I really love being so transported and caring so much about a fictional world that when I am on the other side of that reading experience, I yearn for it and I miss it and I miss those people and I feel like I care about those people. I can't get that feeling anywhere else and it's not a purely enjoyable feeling but it is a really kind of deep feeling for me. Yeah, so I think the answer is that you won't become callous to the feeling.

Maybe you'll learn to enjoy the feeling or be able to sort of enjoy marinating in the the leftovers of the reading experience. I just finished Zadie Smith's swing time. And I found it disturbing in a lot of ways, very good. But I don't yet want to dive back into another novel just yet. So usually after a novel or like a story that I'm really into, maybe I'll read some articles, some short or things, some New Yorker that's stacked up because you can't ever read them all. Or you know maybe I'll look at a magazine or maybe some nonfiction. So I

think there's just ways that you deal with it. The most recent book hangover I had, not to go back to a subject that's going to be a frequent topic over the next eight months, was after reading Hank's book an absolutely remarkable thing. I really did, though, and I hadn't had the feeling that intensely in a long time where I loved those characters and I wanted to spend more time with them, and I loved how they loved each other. I loved the way they cared about each other.

And that reflected both things that I have in my real life and also things that I had at other points in my real life that I miss having, you know, that feeling of being... Remember when we were in our 20s and in Chicago and we had these wonderful, wonderful friend groups. And we remember the best summer ever when Sam and Shannon announced that it was going to be the best summer ever and we were always grilling out and the weather was always perfect and we were, we just loved living on Gidding Street and the bookseller had opened up

and so we had a local bookstore we could walk to and a great bar and we felt comfortable enough in our own skins finally at the end of our twenties to have this magical summer together. That's the way an absolutely remarkable thing may be feel. I cannot wait to read it. I'm so excited to read it and I cannot wait to have my Hank Green book hangover very soon. Yeah, absolutely. Which reminds me that today's podcast is brought to you by Hank Green's new book an absolutely remarkable thing available in September and bookstores everywhere. It's also brought to you by Mark Spitz, former Olympic swimmer. I can't. How did you get to Mark Spitz?

I just... Take me there. Do you have a life size cut out of Mark Spitz that you've been hiding from me this whole time? Do you have a life size cutout of Mark's bits that you've been hiding from me this whole time? No, I was... I don't know how I got there, but I once looked for Mark's bits posters on eBay. And... Are you into Mark's bits? No, that makes so. I really don't know how I got there. You know, I like to look for weird stuff on eBay. Yeah, no, that's why eBay exists. There's a Vongots lyric trying to fight the sense of dread with temporal things. Yeah. That's my description of what eBay feels like.

Okay. Which reminds me that today's podcast is also brought to you by eBay. eBay trying to fight the sense of dread with temporal things. And lastly, this podcast is brought to you by Ben's day at work. Don't ask about it. No, don't ask about Ben's day. It wasn't great. Okay, but back to our questions. This next one comes from Kelly. I've never been into politics much until the past year and a half.

I know if I want things to change, I need to get involved. And the quote easiest first step would be calling my senators and representatives to voice my concerns. Why is this so daunting? I'm 30 years old for goodness sake. I know they are just humans like I am, but for some reason I get such anxiety thinking about calling. I could send an email, but I've heard that politicians

pay more attention to phone calls. Political advice for introverts, Kelly. This is something I also struggle with. Yeah. We both, John and I, really dislike actually calling people. Yes. If I could give anyone some advice for looking for their life partner, one of you should feel comfortable calling strangers.

I, two things. I think it's good to have at least one spender and at least one saver. We're both spenders and neither of us like to call people. I disagree. I don't think we're both spenders. Oh really? I don't. You think you're not a spender? No. I when I look at the secret room bookcase every time I look at it I think to myself this was the action of a saver. Every time I look at it, I think to myself, this was the action of a saver. This is the kind of thing only a saver would have purchased. But who had the wherewithal in the contacts to get this bookcase made and paid for? Oh definitely you. Definitely you. I think you actually made the relevant phone calls.

Neither of us is particularly good at calling. I would say if you want to have a job, if you want to have job security for the rest of your life, be the kind of person who's good at calling strangers. It's such a great life skill, but we don't have it. And neither does Kelly. So here's my advice Kelly. You just got to work yourself up. And then what I like to do with difficult things is break them into tiny little constituent parts. So I go to five calls.org, I look at the script, I read through everything, I see who I'm going to call, I look at the number, I think about dialing the number, I dial the number, I wait for a while before hitting call, just to psych myself up, remind myself of this stuff

I want to say, then I hit call eight times out of ten, I end up with a voicemail message, which is perfect. So that's one of the nice things, especially if you call during a busy time, you're probably just going to get a voicemail, which is so easy to do. And then I just do my best to say it. I'll always stumble over my words. And then I just hang up as quickly as possible. And then I reward myself.

I tell myself, okay, you have five minutes to do whatever you want. You can eat candy. You can go on Reddit. You can do anything that will bring you pleasure. And then we're going to make one more call and then you're done for the week. Wait, but can we back up a little bit here? Because I feel like it's okay to not call your representatives. I, listen, the most important thing.

There are other things you can do to be an active member in this democracy. You can vote. That's the most important thing. I really feel like if you're paying attention to the news and the issues and the people who are running for positions in your area, then you're doing a hell of a lot of work already. And you're doing a good job. I agree. The most important thing you can do is vote. The second most important thing you can probably do is register other people to vote. Here we go. Help organize to get other people to vote. Do you remember when we went door to door

to encourage people to register to vote, John? I do. This is relevant. I do. I feel that this is relevant. It's not. It's something that neither of us really wanted to do, but we felt that we should. Right. And we did, and we went door to door and a neighborhood, and we'd go to the door. Yeah. We'd knock and ring the bell, and then we kind of agree in those few moments, okay, are you going first for this one or am I? And I remember the first time it was gonna be John's turn.

John was like, okay, it's good. It's gonna be me this time. Woman opens the door. Pause, pause, pause. John's not saying anything. I kind of was like, okay, John, now's your chance. And then I swept in there. I would have started talking.

I would have stood silent in front of that person for seven years if you hadn't begun to talk. Yeah. I was already, they tell you what to say. You say your name and then you state your purpose. Yeah, and I felt very comfortable just not telling somebody how they should vote, but just giving them the opportunity to register. Just a quick update on, you might hear some noise outside.

It's a buddy of ours who works at the local restaurant. He's very excited about seeing one of his friends. So that's a personal update in case you can hear that. They also appear to maybe be setting off some firecrackers. They're so excited to be seeing each other anyway, but back to political activism. Right, and there's other things you can do besides going to register for people to vote or calling your representative. You can do something like make a really cool poster that advertises your particular issues of concern. Yeah. There are other things to do besides calling.

I completely agree. You don't have to call. But it is one way of trying to move the needle a little bit, especially in between elections. I think a lot of us feel kind of powerless in between elections, but the most important thing that we can do is vote in 2018 and make sure that we're registered to vote in 2018. So if you're not registered to vote, or if you're not sure that you're registered to vote, get registered right now. I don't mean like getting a car accident by pulling out your phone, but like, I mean pull over right now, get yourself to a safe space and register to vote. It is so important. If we had

100% or even 80% voter turnout, I think that we would like American governance a lot more. And so I really encourage you to make your voice heard and to register to vote and to vote in November. Alright, this next question comes from Winnie who asks, Dear John and Hank, what should I do with a guy who thinks reading novels is useless and lame and won't get me anywhere? Furiously, Winnie. Dump him. Dump him fast.

Yeah. Farewell, sweet prince. Next question. Yep, I'm not I mean that's it. I that's really all that's really all you can say look Especially if when he clearly likes to read yeah, so if he can't if he if he can't appreciate your desire to read Fiction then it's just not gonna work. Here's my issue with the question. It's when when he asks, what should I do with the guy who thinks reading novels

is useless in a lame? Look, that's fine. I think it's wrong, but it's fine. But the end won't get me anywhere. No, no, no, I don't even think that that part is fine. I think that it's fine to not read fiction yourself. Yes. But I don't think it's okay to impose that on other people.

Exactly. That's, that's, yes, it's fine. Right, live your life, but don't tell other people how to live their reading lives for the love of God. You know who read fiction? James Joyce. And who read fiction? Tony Morrison, come on.

I also think like, name all of the things in the world that might be useless and lame. There are so many more things that can be construed as useless than reading. Right. You know what? What do we do that isn't useless because we're all gonna end up in the same place?

Right, yeah, like you know what won't get you anywhere? Spending your whole life telling other people that their reading choices are useless and lame. That's not going to get you anywhere in the long run. Winnie, I think it's time to walk the F away. Okay, our next question comes from Phoebe. Dear Hank and John, I am friends with a guy, I am a girl, who I went to a dance with last weekend.

We attended as friends, but in the midst of school dance insanity, we ended up slow dancing. I like him and I think he likes me, so my question is, how do two people proceed after accidentally slow dancing with each other? Not friends with Chandler and Rachel Phoebe. Oh, Phoebe, this is awesome.

This is the opposite of Wendy's question. Where's Monica? Oh. she must be friends with Monica. Maybe she is friends with Monica. Ultimately, maybe judging by what I'm guessing is Phoebe's age, she's not that familiar with friends. Or Elsa Joey's missing. Okay. If we're going to say that Joey's missing, Sarah, then we might as well get into the endless cast of Four great friends characters.

Joey is a very prominent core member of the friend group. Sarah everyone knows that that television show friends is about a group of five very close friends and the sixth person who is Joey who is a like not Central character in any of their lives. No, he's a huge character. Strongly disagree. Okay, anyway, let's get back to the question here, which is wonderful. It's wonderful. Wonderful question.

How do you proceed? You just keep proceeding. You're friends and maybe more. And you know what, this is a beautiful time in a relationship where you like each other, but it's undefined. It's a beautiful time in retrospect. Like when you're inside of it, it's kind of an anxious time. Right, that's true. But it is a beautiful time looking back on it for sure. Yeah.

Here's my favorite part of the question Sarah, is in the midst of school dance insanity we ended up slow dancing. Here's my take Phoebe. I don't think that you ended up slow dancing because you know the school dance insanity overtook both of you and you just were feeling the vibe of it all and you are you just suddenly found yourself slow dancing. I you just suddenly found yourself slow dancing. I strongly think that if you really examine your motives, you're gonna find that you ended up slow dancing because you both wanted to be slow dancing. And that means that, you know, that's a step on a path maybe. Or maybe not, it's up to you.

But I think you just keep walking that path and maybe say, you know what you could say. You're just gonna throw this out there. You maybe say, you know what you could say, she's gonna throw this out there, you could say Ross. I assume that's his name. I really enjoyed slow dancing with you. At first I thought it was only because of the school dance insanity that we ended up slow dancing together, but the more I think about the more I think like I liked I liked slow dancing with you. I thought it was fun. What do you think of that? Is that too far? It might be too far. I don't know. I don't know.

She doesn't seem like she's dying to know what he thinks. So I think she's in a good place because she's just kind of towing the line. And I believe in protecting one's own interests here. Like, if it works out great and if it doesn't, NBD. That is a true blue Sarah Green answer. That reveals something deep about your character, I think, and it is very true. Why? Like, at what point in our romantic relationship do you think that you thought to yourself, if we break up, this this is now gonna be a big deal. It was pretty soon after we got together I was gonna ask you if it was before or after we got engaged

Definitely before come on Because I would say the moment I realized that our breaking up would be a huge deal to me was like maybe three months before we started dating. Before? Yeah. Wow. I was like, I don't know if I want to start this whole process because it would be devastating to Big Broca.

Because I liked you so much. We got along so well with friends and we had these wonderful email conversations. Right. Because like, we got along so well with friends and we had these wonderful email conversations. Right. And then I remember you came to a party in my house and at the end of that party I was like, oh, we're gonna have to make a decision about this. Yeah, we are you.

Both of us. Yeah. Right, because we clearly liked each other. Yeah. Yeah. At least some. Right. But I don't know that we really understood what what it was. Right. We were in a similar situation really to the situation Phoebe's in. It's true.

And I did I did enjoy I enjoyed that process. I like we had great but but but we reparted before we started dating. We did but the other thing to note since they're pretty young is that it's all, it's about whether you guys get along and whether you have good chemistry, but it's also of course about timing. So maybe you know maybe it is your time with the sky and maybe you need to date a few other people first before the sky for real. So who knows? That said, we have lots of friends who started dating in eighth grade and are still together. No, we don't.

We have one. Well, two, because there are a couple. Okay, one that seems like an exception to the rule. No, it is possible. It is possible. I was gonna try to imagine what life would have been like if I'd married my eighth grade girlfriend. Yeah. But then of course I realized that I did not have one.

It was a tough year. Yeah. It was a tough year. Yeah. Anyway Phoebe, I think congratulations that you have a special relationship with another person whom you like and that may lead to something romantic and may not. Oh, that's great advice, Sarah. That's lovely. Okay, Sarah, it's time to get to the all-important news from Mars and AFC Wimbledon. Would you like to go first? I assume that you have some extremely carefully prepared Mars news. Yeah, I'm a little worried about this delivery here since I don't have a very deep knowledge of Mars, but I will tell you what I've learned through my extensive research. Okay.

And that's that, now says next mission to Mars past a key test in the past week, extending the solar arrays that will power the insight spacecraft once it lands on the red plan at this November. I wasn't just reading that from my phone. I swear. It didn't sound like you were. No, no. So anyway, it seems like they've been doing a lot of tests, but now they're really, it's getting closer to the time and they're sort of going through the motions of the things that won't happen again till this thing actually gets to Mars. Wow. So my understanding of this is that we are in a period where NASA is attempting to essentially

land a much nicer mini-cooper on Mars than the mini-cooper that we landed named Curiosity a few years ago and that is very exciting. But critically, it will not have any humans on it, which leads open the possibility that this podcast will change its name in 2028. Right. Well, I will say looking at the fan-like solar panels that are part of this, they're very beautiful.

It's a look like a peacock. It's very well designed, I will say. Can I take a look? I think it's kind of gorgeous. It is beautiful. That is really pretty. It's like a like a peacock. It's very well designed, I will say. Can I take a look? I think it's kind of gorgeous. It is beautiful. That is really pretty. It looks like a flower. Yeah.

Well, the news from AFC Wimbledon is also beautiful and wonderful and amazing as Sarah Knows because she was there, as I was celebrating. AFC Wimbledon beat Blackpool to Nill on January 20th. This was a huge win on the heels of their Nill Nill draw against the franchise currently applying its trade in Milton Keynes. AFC Wimbledon won 2-0 with goals from Liam Trotter and Joe Piggitt. Sarah, have you heard that name before? You haven't.

No. You know why? He's brand new. We just signed him. It was his first game And with his second touch of the ball as an AFC Wimbledon player. He scored He's new and I don't want to get ahead of myself, but he's amazing He's 24 years old no pressure. We signed him from Madestone United a team in the fifth tier of English football I don't want to put too much pressure on him this

early in his AFC. How long does he? He's 24. Okay. I don't want to put too much pressure on him this early in his AFC Wembleyne career, but I have started calling him the Made Stoney and Messy, because I think he is going to be the greatest football player in England's history. Very exciting. We scored two goals which does not happen very often and we didn't give up any which is even better and that means that for the first time in a long

long time for the first time in many many weeks AFC Wimbledon are no longer in the bottom four places in League 1. We are out of the relegation zone. We are all the way up in 19th. I mean, can you even breathe the air up here? It's so deoxygenated. We have 31 points after 27 games, a negative seven goal differential,

better goal differential than any of the teams around us. Sitting comfortably, joyfully in 19th and Sarah, what if I told you that the news gets even better still? I wouldn't believe you. But it's true. But it's true, because while we are in 19th, guess who we have pushed down into 21st place, a relegation spot. The worst team of all time. Literally, the worst team of all time. The franchise currently applying its trade in Milton Keynes. Now, of course, if they get relegated,

they can just steal a league spot from a team in the third tier like they did back in 2002. So it won't be a problem for them, of course. But it is, I have to say, a little pleasant to see a team that still insists on calling themselves the dawns despite having absolutely no association with Wimbledon at all in any way in the relegation spots if Oh god if somehow aFC Wimbledon end up staying up that other team ends up going down That would mean not having to play them next season, which would also be lovely

So yeah, let's keep our hopes alive. Ma'am, ask a question. You may. So how far, not to get too ambitious here, but how far out of the relegation zone does one have to be before one doesn't worry about entering the relegation zone? Great question. 52 points. If you get to 52 points, we're not going to get relegation zone. Great question. 52 points. Okay. If you get to 52 points, we're not gonna get relegated. And until probably, and until we get to 52 points, I'm going to worry.

And how many points do we have? 31. Okay, so this worked. And we have 19 games left. So we need, from those 19 games, we need about 21 points. Okay. It should be doable with Joe Pigett.

Forget about that, Sarah. Let me answer your question with a question. Is it possible that AFC Wimbledon will be promoted to the second tier of English football? Is it possible that on the back of Joe Pigett, we will rise from 21st all the way up to sixth place. Shouldn't we suspend that hope a little later in the season? Winning the playoffs semi-final and then going to Wembley again, flying out to Wembley with my son and my father and my spouse? Maybe.

Maybe? And enjoying the greatest comeback in the history of football? It's possible, Sarah. It's possible. Through Joe Piggit, so many things are possible. Do you have any sort of song for Joe Piggit? Yeah. I've been thinking about trying to develop one.

I tried to buy him in my FIFA game, but he isn't in the game because he plays in a tier that's too low. Right. Yeah, I've been thinking about a good Joe Picket song. If you have any suggestions actually, let us know on Twitter or on the patreon.com slash deer, Hank and John. I know that the ASC Wimbledon fans are going to need a great Joe Picket song to go along with their classic

wild Taylor baby. My old Taylor baby. My old Taylor. Sarah, thank you for potting with me. Thank you for asking me to pot with you, John. It's been a pleasure and I really appreciate you doing it. And thanks to all of you for listening. Again, you can find out more about our podcast

at the patreon patreon.com slash deer hank and John. You can find out more about Sarah at the art assignment. You can just Google if they have a website. It's the art assignment.com. Oh, that was a good one. You picked a good URL. Um, which John Green dot com was available? But that realtor in Southern Mississippi is sure had it for a long time.

Our podcast is produced by Rosio and Halsey Wilson shared in Gibson. It's edited by the brilliant Nick Jenkins. Our head of community and communications is Victoria von Schoenow. The theme music you're listening to right now was made by Gunnarola. Thank you again for listening. And as they say in our hometown, don't forget to be awesome.