Dear Hank & John - 232: The Construction Paper Diploma

Episode Date: March 23, 2020

How do I entertain myself during a quarantine? Where is the center of the universe? Why are the letters on a phone keypad upside down from a keyboard numberpad? Should I stop talking to my friend because they don't like The Mountain Goats? How do I cope with sudden major life changes? Hank Green and John Green have answers!If you're in need of dubious advice, email us at [e-mail]! Join us for monthly livestreams and an exclusive weekly podcast at patreon.com/dearhankandjohn. Follow us on Twitter! twitter.com/dearhankandjohn Subscribe to the Nerdfighteria newsletter! https://nerdfighteria.com/nerdfighteria-newsletter

Hi, cold open here from John and Hank to let you know that we have some exciting new merch available. No, it's not it's to talk about The global pandemic that is COVID-19 and that has caused so much disruption to so many people's lives. I don't know Is that how we want to do it? I don't know you tell me you try cold open everybody It is a stressful and Disconcerting time and it is when we were all being asked to do things that we may not wanna do, but I'm happy myself to be doing all the handwashing and working from home and not face touching

and social distancing that I can. I feel like that's very easy for you to say and also that you can't do all the social distancing, you have to do all the social distancing. Yeah, well, so yeah, so this is the thing. You are aware of this problem, we are aware of this problem. Now let's have some time where we're not always thinking

about it and there is space to be in a world as it exists without it being like without sort of experiencing dread during every second of a terrible situation. Yeah, I think we should be calm, I think we should be kind, I think we should be compassionate, but I also think we should understand where we are, where this is in history,

and that there has not been a moment like this in our lives, and there will not be a moment like this again, hopefully. Yeah. One more try. One more try. Hi, cold open. Look, we're gonna try to have some laughs today, but we are also cognizant of the fact that for many of you, probably most of you, this is a profoundly uncertain and scary

time. We don't know what to say about that. All we can say is we believe in listening to experts. The experts are telling us to isolate ourselves from other people, but even when we can't gather, we still need to find ways to be together. And we hope that this can be a small way of being together. I know I've been treating podcasts that way lately, where Chris and I, my best friend,

will listen to a podcast together and then discuss it afterwards on the phone as a way of being together, even though we can't be physically together right now. So yeah, this is an incredibly hard time. And Hank and I don't know how to make sense of it any more than anyone else does. Yeah. And don't know to maintain some sense of stability and connection with how things are and have been get ready for some really upbeat intro music.

have been, get ready for some really upbeat intro music. John, please have a dad joke that's gonna make me laugh this week for the first time in like three months. What genre are national anthems? What genre are national anthems country? I think I just laughed because my my my bar is said exceptionally low right now For what's an acceptable level of humor. I really like that one. Also, I feel like a lot of things that I found funny a week ago, I don't find funny anymore, so it's possible that now I do find bad jokes.

You like bad jokes now. It could have happened. It could have happened. I'm not ruling it out. All right, Hank, let's start by answering questions from our listeners because that's what we do. And I agree with you that where it is possible to maintain a sense of consistency, let's

do it because lots and lots of places, it's not possible. This first question comes from Jose who writes, dear John and Hank, I'm Jose from Madrid. My government ordered a nationwide two-week house confinement to stop the spread of coronavirus. I have about 20 days to do absolutely nothing but be alone with my family and my thoughts only leaving home to throw away trash or get more food. What do I do? So far I've started taking care of a plant. His name is Kevin. I've attached a picture and I've listened to all the episodes of Dear Hicken John. We've made so many episodes of Dear Hicken John and always they got to all the episodes of Dear Hank and John. We've made so many episodes of Dear Hank and John and who's they got through all of them?

Yeah. Uh, and it's been, it's been a day or two. Yeah. Uh, oh gosh. Well, Jose, I have a lot of suggestions. I, this, we got, we got so many versions of this question from people who are home from school or people who are in Italy or Spain or people like everybody is dealing with this and going to be dealing with this.

This is the only question that I directly need answered as well. John, what do I do? Yeah. Well, I've been home for six days. Now, I'm very fortunate in that I am able to do work from home in so far as it is possible to do work while having two school-aged children who are ostensibly learning from home as full-time students. That is its own thing. So that's part of what I'm doing. Like three hours a day, I'm a teacher now. There's been a lot of watching Crash Course

Kids and SciShow Kids in my house. By the way, wonderful tools, Hank. Thanks. I'm a teacher now. There's been a lot of watching Crash Course Kids and SciShow Kids in my house. And by the way, wonderful tools. Thanks. I don't think I ever said thank you for Crash Course Kids and SciShow Kids. Two shows that I had absolutely nothing to do with, but have been getting a lot of credit for in the last 48 hours.

I didn't have much to do with them either. It's a great, great team's made those things. And, uh, and Orren also loves them, even though it's, he's a little young for them yet. Yeah. I had somebody, uh, so I tweeted about our, of some of our work from home plans. Um, and somebody said, no one should ever go into an office. Offices aren't where work gets done. There where productivity gets destroyed. And I downright snapped. I went for it on that guy because boy, a lot of people it is not easy to work from home. It's not if you have a family and especially if you

do not have a big house where you can sort of be like I'm going to be in this other room that we just happen to have. Well yeah, also a lot of people can't do the work that they do from home. Oh, of course, and many people, of course, cannot do it at all. Like, that's just the reality for a lot of people. So, to whatever extent, boredom is an issue. The good news is that we have never lived in a better time for free solutions to boredom. I'm gonna just give you 10 favorites, Jose.

He's gonna go with 10. I'm gonna go with 10, Hank. We, a lot of us, are about to have a lot of time. Jose, I think the most important thing, in addition to making sure that you are doing everything you can to keep yourself appropriately separated from other people is finding ways to still be connected to people. Yeah, that's just essential to human health.

And so make time to talk with your friends. Sarah and I are doing a thing every evening called the virtual cocktail hour where we have cocktails via video chat with a friend. And it's a different, we're kind of rotating through all of our friends as a way of trying to stay connected. what are your children do during this period of time are they just Taking taking care of themselves. Oh, they they fend for themselves at this point You know like I have no honestly. I don't know they run in and out and like they are participating in the video chat

They just aren't drinking the cock Okay, good by the way, I mean I participating in the video chat. They just aren't drinking the cocktail. Okay. Okay. By the way, I mean, I thought we had three weeks of cocktails, but maybe not. If you don't, don't have it. Three weeks of five cocktail things. So that's number one. Number two, podcasts. Now this is going to sound really astonishing Jose, but we do not make the only podcast. There are a bunch of them, and many of them significantly better than this one.

Yeah. In fact, I can identify two that are better than this one that still have our voices, the Anthropocene reviewed and SciShow tangents. So I recommend both of those, but also 99% invisible. Yeah. The episode of Reply All about the hit, the Lost Hit. Hank was the best hour of radio I have enjoyed in a long time. It was the most satisfying media experience I have ever had. Yes, everybody go listen to this episode of Reply All

about a guy who remembers a hit song that nobody else remembers. It's brilliant. Yeah, it's so good. There are so many great podcasts that you can listen to. Number three, there are a lot of good books that you can read for free, specifically every book in the world published before 1923. John, do you want to know my million dollar idea? Here's my million dollar quarantine idea. And of course, it's not my million dollar idea? Here's my million dollar quarantine idea.

And of course, it's not a million dollar idea because it will make no money. Great, that's what we need right now. Here it is, here's what. Zero dollar ideas. Zero dollar idea. I want to do a podcast where I just read an out of print book, or not an out of print book,

but a book that is in the public domain. It's a great idea. And just like one chapter a day, and you can like hang out and I can read you a, I don't know, little women or something. Is little women in the public domain. It's a great idea. And just like one chapter a day, and you can like hang out and we can read you a, I don't know, little women or something. Is little women in the public domain? I don't know, but... Pride and prejudice.

Can I tell you that I think that's a great idea, and what I like best about it is that it's zero dollars. Yeah. We already have the stuff that we need. It costs no money, and it makes no money. Yeah. Don't put advertisements on it. That'll just be a distraction.

Just make the thing. I love that idea. I've been reading, this is only tangentially related, but I've been reading a book called Whose Names or Unknown that was supposed to be published like 85 years ago, but instead only got published in 2014. We are. It's a very sad story.

This extraordinary writer, Sonora Bambe, who is a Native American woman, worked recording the stories of people living through the Depression. And actually, John Steinbeck used her research to write the grapes of wrath. And then after the grapes of wrath came out, her publishing contract basically got canceled

because the editor was like, no way we can have another hit depression novel. We've already got one. Oh yeah. This book is so good. It's so good and it was completely forgotten. And there are so many books like that. So that's another thing I would say.

Like turn to the public domain. This is a great time, I think, to be listening to voices from the past anyway. You know, read the speeches of frickin' Cicero. Read the speeches of Cicero! That was gonna be my fourth thing actually, is poetry. Okay. It's a great time for poetry.

I need poetry to give me language for the stuff that I'm feeling right now. So I've been watching a lot of ours, Poetica, the YouTube channel with free poems on it. Can I do one, John, since you've been going for a while, and now I've got ideas. Yeah. Hypotheticals. I just imagine what, like, what something would be like if something were slightly different. And it can be as simple as like, what if instead of eggs, we didn't

have eggs. What would the world be like without eggs? My world would be identical. You bake, you have not with eggs. My world would be identical. You'd be like, you bake. You have not with eggs. Not with eggs. That have eggs in them. No, I don't. Or I find that there is infinite joy in finding things out and asking questions that, like, what if there were no gas giants in the solar system?

How would things be different? What if we lived on a moon with a gas giant? Whoa, whoa, whoa, slow it down, green. What? Yeah. Something extraordinary is about to happen. What? Something unprecedented.

Okay, I'm about to correct you about science. Okay. There are no gas giants in the solar system. Boom! Boom! I don't understand. What do you mean? You said what would happen if there were no gas giants

in the solar system and there aren't any because our solar system only has one star. Gas giants are a kind of planet. Dang it! Ah! So confident! So Jupiter is a gas giant. Yes. Any others?

Just for my edification? Yeah, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune are all cast trans. I did that whole bit so that I could hear your ridiculous pronunciation of Uranus. I knew about the gas giant thing. Yeah, yeah. Okay. All right. Uh-huh.

I'm right there with you. What's number, what's, did I do number six? What's number seven? Let's face it, we're not keeping count anymore. Wikipedia rabbit holes. So yeah, you read it. This is actually how I found this novel, whose names are unknown, was via a Wikipedia rabbit hole.

And I believe I started reading about Lyle Taylor, the former AFC Wimble then striker. I was like, is Lyle Taylor having a good season? Let's go to his Wikipedia page. And about an hour and 15 minutes later, I was like, I think what happened to good season? That's good, it was Wikipedia page. And about an hour and 15 minutes later, I was like, I think I will order this novel written 80 years ago that just got published. Gathered and I built some shelves this weekend.

We got all the stuff in the basement up off the floor. I also started playing Stardew Valley with Orin, which is a video game where you are a farmer. Video games are wonderful. And there are many of them that are very relaxing and that are great escapes, but are also beautiful art. And I have not played much in the way of video games for years. That's up.

Obviously watching your star do Valley playthrough, by the way. I didn't play like five days without live streaming it so that I could at least know how to like click on stuff. Well, that isn't as obvious. Well, it would have been worse. Yeah, I mean, I have been absolutely overwhelmed with Dread, to be honest, for most of the last week and really freaked out. I mean, one of the things that I kind of knew intellectually but hadn't fully internalized about big, big, big problems is that you still have all of your old problems while you're living amid them.

And so, you know, I still have obsessive compulsive disorder and it's pretty severe. And this is a really, really stressful time, I think, for a lot of people who already have pre-existing anxiety problems or pre-existing problems with feeling isolated or with depression. And finding ways to feel calm, to feel connection, even to feel distraction, are to me all valuable. But I also think that when we are able to, when we're ready to, we need to be thinking about the people who are most vulnerable. And if there's any way that we can support them, whether that's calling someone, we know might be having a difficult time or who might be severely affected by this or seeing if there are ways that we can support the causes that are

most focused on helping those people. And I think that keeping those folks in your mind so that when opportunities come up to help or to sort of create the opportunities to help. And I think keep in mind that donations to food pantries and oftentimes the best donation is money so that they can buy exactly what they need. And we need to be appreciating the people who are working the hardest right now. And there's a lot of that work that's going to be very hard. And I think underappreciated coming up.

So reaching out to people in your life and reaching out to people who are not. And also, if you want to practice your own creation, whatever that is, if you got a guitar in your vine, you always been wanting to learn to play it, or you got a pencil and paper, and you want to sketch a coffee mug or something, it's a time for personal exploration and connection with ourselves as well as the people around us. I've been learning to play the piano. Have you?

Have you? Yeah. I was going to keep it a secret for you. Oh no! Why did you tell me? I'm so disappointed. I wanted to get peered. Yeah, I remember Pea who is going to learn how to play the violin and then surprise her family

Yeah, well, I'll tell you why I'm telling you about it I've been learning from my son who himself takes classes and is very good and the reason I'm telling you about it now Hank is that I've been Learning the piano for several for like I would say like two months. Uh-huh, and I'm so bad It's it's a, all I want to do, all I want to be able to do is play the 12 bar blues, which is not technically difficult for most piano players. Okay. And I cannot get there. It's actually really interesting to do this with a 10 year old teacher because he's at once very patient and like just baffled. It's not that he's frustrated, he's just confused. No, he's being very kind about it. He's just like, how could somebody be this bad at this thing? I can't,

I cannot remember being this unskilled. No, indeed, I don't think he ever was, right?'t, I cannot remember being this unskilled. No, and indeed, I don't think he ever was, right? Like I think the first time he was explained to him, he was like, oh yeah, I got it. And then he's just like, nope, nope, nope. Further, and he's also like kind of shocked that I can't hear when it's wrong. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's like, you're not doing it. So my initial hope was that one day I would like play keys in your band, but that seems very, just a very remote possibility. Yeah. Well, that's lovely. I like it.

I wish my son could teach me piano. That would be very fun. Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom, Do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do It's a very important question because I want to know where I really am, not designed to carry very heavy fairy. I guess that's what fairies do. They carry very heavy. Wait, what? I don't know. It's like a gas giant thing that I just, no, I found this thing in the boats. They carry heavy things.

Oh. I thought it was F-A-I-R-Y. No, yeah, fairy. Okay. So can I guess the answer to this question before you tell me? Yeah, you get me a guess. I think that the center of the world is inside of my little soul. Like, right? I'm in the middle. Um, not exactly. You're really close, though. Oh, there is no center. No, the center of the universe is for you. Yeah, your cornea. Oh, that's a little corny. Wow. Where are we? What's happened? I know. That was a good one. Down is up and up is down. Welcome to 2020, everybody. No, but there is no center of the universe, right? No, so there is and there is

it. So there is no. So in one sense, everywhere is the center of the universe and nowhere is the center of the universe. We think that the universe may indeed be infinite, in which case there would definitely not be a center of it. In another sense, there is the observable universe. So there's the universe that we can, given the constraints of the speed of light, possibly C, because the universe has only existed for a certain amount of time. And so light has had to travel from that far away to arrive at us. And so literally the center of the observable universe is the observer. And I think that that's really cool.

Wow. Yeah. It's not like Earth. It is whoever is looking. Wait, so it's actually my. Wow. Yeah. It's not like Earth, it is whoever is looking. Wait, so it's actually my cornea. Yeah. Or it is the camera that's taking the picture. It's the Hubble Space Telescope, or it's the, you know,

giant array of telescopes. You know, whatever is doing the observing is the center. I find that so hopeful, weirdly. Like mathematically, like exactly. Like it's kind of making tears come to my eyes. Well, it doesn't take a ton right now. That's true. It's beautiful.

I've got another weird one, John. If you want to do more weird ones. Yeah, let's stick with it. Actually, let's just try to get through the whole episode just weird from here on out. Okay, this one's from Bridget, who asks, Dear Hank and John, the number pat on the keyboard and the number pat on the phone,

both have the zero at the bottom and then they have a square of the rest of the nine integers. But the one, two, and three are on the top on the phone and they're on the bottom on the keyboard. And this is very frustrating because I get it backwards all the time. Why are these things not standardized? If your favorite bridge is a lady, call it Bridget.

I love it. It could be Bridget. Maybe it's Bridget. I mean, I'm imagining that call it Bridget. I love it. It could be Bridget. Maybe it's Bridget. I mean, I'm imagining that it's Bridget. Well, but... Now that I've looked at the name specific sign off, I think you may be correct. So Hank, as you know, I spent five years doing data entry

for Bookless magazine. Yes. Not to brag. I wasn't good at most of my job, but I am so good at data entry. Yeah, you pop in those numbers. I know my way around a keyboard number pad. I'm going to, again, I don't want to brag. I'm an extremely fast typist. It's one of the only actual skills that I have. Yeah, he is very fast. It's wild to watch John type. Like when I was in high school, I remember one of my teachers somewhat residedly saying,

well, at least you'll find work as a typist, which at the time is less of a job now than it used to be. But I actually did. I went into a temp agency and they were like, what can you do? And I was like, really just one thing, but boy can I do it. And they were like, will you take our typing test? And I was like, take it. Yeah. And I took the typing test And they were like, will you take our typing test and I was like, take it, yeah. And I took the typing test and they were like, holy cow. You fast. So my theory about this is that the number pad is actually perfectly designed

because the numbers are all kind of like randomly distributed. Like you don't use one number more than the other usually. Except maybe zero. Yeah. And as it happens, zero is the easiest one to hit. Like the space bars, the easiest thing to hit on the zero. Yeah. And as it happens, zero is the easiest one to hit. Like the space bar is the easiest thing to hit on the keyboard. Yeah. And like, do you do zero with your thumb

when you're doing entry with a keyboard pad? Yeah. So here's the wild thing. The keyboard was done first because obviously, like cash registers and stuff existed before phones did. Now we're not entirely sure. There's several theories why. But my favorite theory, and this

is entirely unsubstantiated, is literally because of people like you who are very good at typing fast on this layout, the phone company had to make it opposite to slow people down. No. Because people who were good at this kind of thing would dial the number very quickly and the phone couldn't handle it. It couldn't, like, the electrical impulses, it couldn't read the tones fast enough

because people were typing too fast. You hear that a lot about the Quarty Keyboard layout, like the keyboard layout that most English language typewriters and keyboards have. It's not totally true of the Quarty Keyboard layout. In fact, if you want an exhaustive, some would say exhausting history of the Quarty Keyboard layout, you could check out the Anthropocene Reviewed episode

on the topic. It is something that completely fascinates me because like most actual inventions, it wasn't really invented by one person or another. It was invented by lots of people in conversation and cooperation with each other. But it is definitely true that the Quirty Keyboard Layout keeps your fingers moving, which is one of the things that you want a keyboard layout to do.

But if you're a phone company, you kind of need more tone in order to make it work. Yeah, and people wouldn't like push the button for long enough to even trigger the tone, because they were so fast at it. Fascinating. So we're not sure that that's the reason there are other guesses, and it may be that there were multiple factors involved and that this was one of them.

But I love that. They were like, why is this so inconvenient? And it was like, because they literally designed it for inconvenience, they wanted it to be worse. Which reminds me that today's podcast is brought to you by the phone company. The phone company, we want it to be worse. We couldn't make the machine better so we made you worse. This podcast is also brought to you by Jose's plant, Kevin.

Kevin, living in Madrid, hanging out, Kevin doesn't need to go anywhere. It's such a good time to have a plant. We suddenly, all the plants in our house have seen dramatic improvements in their overall quality of life. Today's podcast is also brought to you by gas giants, gas giants, not stars. And finally, this podcast is brought to you

by the center of the observable universe. Guess what, kid? It's you. And wherever you are listening to this, whoever you are, I'm just so grateful that we have you observing the universe from your place of actual centrality.

Yeah. Also, we have a project for awesome message, Rachel Morochka donated to the project for awesome to get us to read this message for Ali Marochka. Hi, thanks for being my sister in law. I'm really glad that we've gotten deboned over Nerdfighteria, Hank and John and the McElroy family of products. Congrats on your impending or existing human baby.

Rachel, thank you for acknowledging how long it can take us to actually do these. So long that for all we know, Ali has a third child. You are or will be an awesome mom and you're killing it and I love you. Oh, that's so sweet. That is very sweet. That is very sweet. All right, Hank, I want to ask this question because it's related to one of my biggest interests from Emily who writes, dear John and Hank, a few months ago, I wanna ask this question because it's related to one of my biggest interests from Emily who writes, dear John and Hank, a few months ago, I played some of the mountain goats for one of my friends who has a similar taste in music,

but it never heard them. By the way, for those of you who don't know, the mountain goats are a band. So otherwise, you might think that Emily was playing like mountain goat chanting. Well, I don't know what kind of noises they make. I assume that it's some form of chanting, but it's not, it's a band.

It's not just L band, it's the best band. Anyway, my friend and I were hanging out and listening to the music, and a mountain goat song came on. It was Old College Try, which by the way, it's a great mountain goat song. And they asked, is that that band you like? And I told them that it was. And they responded, oh, I don't really like them. They're too old. What? What do I do? I don't want to end a close long-term friendship, but I don't think I can be friends with this person anymore. Not a bronchet, Emily. They're too old is a very strange thing to say about a music. Yeah. I kind of sometimes feel that way about like Beethoven where I'm like, look, we've been doing music for a long time, and at this point, we've done better than this, right?

No, I don't, no, I mean, as somebody who can't learn to play the 12-VAR Blues, I just want to state for the record, I disagree with everything Hank just said. Just because it, like, listen to like, Hallenoats, for example, like that just weighs way better than Beethoven, right? Somewhere, both haul and oats just got a shiver.

And they don't know why or where it came from. And it was because you said that. Yeah. I understand the impulse here, like for many years, I would tell my bosses at Bookless magazine that I didn't like black and white movies because they just weren't as good. Because special effects had come a long way. And movies had just gotten better. We'd moved past all that stuff, and it was necessary

because citizen came paved the way for die hard for, but die hard for was still the superior film. I understand this impulse, Emily, and I don't think it's a time to break off this friendship. Or, I mean, if you can avoid it, a time to break off any friendships right now. I think you can accept that people have different music tastes, and there are lots of people who don't like the mountain goats. It baffles me. right now. But I think you can accept that people have different music tastes. And yeah,

there are lots of people who don't like the mountain goats. It baffles me. I think that they are, you know, probably wrong. But we've got to make room for different ways of listening to the world and looking at the world that said the mountain goats are the best. That music is too old. I mean, first off, their music is not too old. They had an album come out this year and it's excellent. I don't know that that's what they meant, though. I think that it's not like that the people are too old or that the music is oldies.

I think it's like, that music feels like it's for old people. And maybe it doesn't, I'm just a old person. It might sound a little bit like it's for old people. Not the new stuff. The new stuff sounds blisteringly contemporary to me. Ha ha ha ha semester of my senior year in college, and I just did not expect it to be ending this suddenly and in such a way. They're moving us all out of the dorms, no word if in-person classes will even resume before the end of the year.

I don't know if I'll be able to come back to walk for graduation. I'm sad, and I know that life throws you unexpected sad changes along the way, but how do we deal with the unexpected? How do we cope with this sudden sadness? It wasn't done yet. There's so many things here I still want to finish. There's no crying in baseball, but I will cry nonetheless, Lauren.

And I think this is just a really important question because there are big difficulties and little difficulties in every kind in between. And I don't know, this is such a specific, but real difficulty and such a specific and real thing that I would not wish upon anyone. And there are so many of those, whether your school play has gotten canceled

and you've been working toward that goal or your robotics competition, that's obviously very different from someone losing their job, but that doesn't mean that it's not really terrible. Yeah, I mean, one of the challenges here is that it's not that often in the human story where almost everyone experiences loss at the same time. And many of us, maybe most of us are experiencing some form of loss right now and some form of grief, but then also along with that anxiety and

worry about the future. And it is really disorienting. And it does feel sometimes like your loss isn't legitimate because other people's losses are so much greater. Yeah. And I do think we need to pay attention to those big losses. You know, in the United States, unfortunately, because of the nature of our safety net, losing your job can be a health problem. And many, many people are going to be facing health problems and dealing with them around the world in really profoundly strained and stretched healthcare systems.

And the losses involved in all of that are genuinely unimaginable, at least to us today, where I'm sitting on March 15th. But Warren's loss is still real. It sucks to not be able to graduate from college, to have imagined this moment since you were a little kid, and to have worked so hard for it. And do you have seen all of the movies and all the stories with the caps and the gowns and the throwing up of the hat and everything

and to have that taken away from you, sucks. If you were a student athlete, and now you don't get to participate in a basketball tournament, it sucks. Like that's a loss. So we're all experiencing different kinds of loss. And that's hard.

Anybody who's minimizing it because your loss doesn't compare to other people's loss just doesn't understand how grief works. Right, and you will also do that to yourself, but you have to understand that that is also irrational. Like difficult things are difficult, regardless of the situation other people are in,

and that has always been the case. But if there's anything here, it is that because this is something that is being experienced on a really large and wide scale, hopefully there will be support. We will be able to lean on each other. That has always been, remains the biggest source of meaning that we have is helping each other out. And so let us continue to do that, whether it is just saying, yes, that sucks. And to, you know, to be aware that this is going to be a hard time for a lot of people

and we're in it together. Yeah, I completely agree, Hank. And I do have a somewhat analogous experience. I had to take a semester off from college, partly because I had whooping cough and partly because I had a steep decline in my mental health. And so I didn't get to graduate with all of my friends. And I was really sad watching graduation and knowing that I was never going to have quite that moment.

Like it didn't get taken away from me the way that it's been taken away from you are. But I do remember feeling really sad. And my religion professor, Donald Rogan, when I did graduate the next January, he organized a graduation for me, a private, I'm going to start crying, but a private graduation ceremony where he handed me a diploma that he had written on a piece of construction paper and that he had signed along with my real diploma. And you know, that happened in his living room with just a couple people there. And it wasn't the graduation that I had imagined, but it was still a really special, wonderful moment in my life. And so I hope you can find a way to have a moment like that.

Thanks for sharing that, John. I am going to do some news from Mars. Should I start with the news from AFC Wimbleton? It's short. The news from Mars. Should I start with the news from AFC Wimbledon? It's short. The news from Mars is nice. So you go first. Okay. Next week on the pod, I'm going to talk about the Plow Lane Bond, which is still happening amid these very uncertain times, as AFC Wimbledon tries really hard to figure out a way to finish their new stadium and get home where they belong back in Wimbledon after all these decades away. But in the meantime, in the

short run, the season has been postponed for several weeks, probably longer. I don't think any of us knows what this looks like and I don't think any of us knows what this looks like and I don't think any of us knows. Yeah. And so the season's been postponed. Several prominent soccer players have been diagnosed with COVID-19 Nobody that I know of anyway as of this recording Close to aFC Wimbledon But yeah, I mean the seasons obviously off as pretty much every sporting event is, and we don't know. But for now, there are no games. And it's a big loss for people who

gather every week and for whom that's the center of their community, as it is for every sports team, every place of worship, every, you know, the list goes on and on and on, every gym, you know, the list goes on and on and on. So, Wimbledon is just a small part of that story, but yeah, that's the situation. Well, and news from Mars, John, this has not, this was a while ago now, because we've been broadcasting some older live shows, but the, to where Mars 2020 River has a name. John, oh, and I love it. Did you know this? Tell me the name, Hank.

He's so happy. The name is Perseverance. Say it again. Perseverance. I mean, I wish you had slightly better pronunciation, but it is my favorite, favorite thing about people. I love it. I love it.

I love this name. How do you love this name? Well, how should I say it? Perseverance. Perseverance. Perseverance. Sometimes I want to say perseverance, but it's not, it's perseverance. Yeah, perseverance.

I think you're over thinking about. It's like when I try to pronounce Antarctica, everyone's like, wait, what? Where does that went? You wow, you really went for the pronunciation on that one too. But I love to get the, in there, Antarctica. If I don't say Antarctica in slow motion, I say Antarctica. And then I feel like I'm doing it wrong.

Uh-huh. But I think just don't overthink it, because probably when I say Antarctica, everybody knows exactly what I mean. Yeah, they do, but I love to say Antarctica. So it's perseverance, it's perseverance. And many people, when it was announced, I suggested a nickname, which I'm sure is going to stick of Percy because that's cute and

Percy's gonna go to Mars. It was named by a student Alexander Mathur who looks like Me he looks a little bit like me when I was his age he's a little nerdy looking kid and he gave a great talk me when I was his age. He's a little nerdy looking kid and he gave a great talk about why he chose that name. And among 28,000 entries from K-12 students, there were like 7,000 judges who are mostly schoolteachers around the world. And then finally, the last few, the nine finalists came up on the screen. We all got to vote on them and I voted on one and I don't even remember which one I voted on. But let's just say that I voted on Perseverance because I'm very happy with how it went.

So congrats to Alexander, and also I'm just very excited for that mission to begin, and for us to move forward. It is a better name now than it was on March 5th, and it is one of those great human qualities, John. I think it's the great one. I think curiosity is awful good too. Curiosity is awful good, but do you know how we've been taking down prey that was bigger and stronger than us for tens of thousands of years?

We're not the fastest. We may not even be the smartest, but good God, we are persistent. Yeah, I love it. I love that about us. Yeah, now more than ever. Well, that's all the news I have. I will have more next week. There's lots going on in Mars news,

but I'm just, that's a big one, and I'm excited to be saying perseverance rover. And also, also also I will finally learn how to spell that word. Oh yeah, it's definitely not one I can spell. Great news. It's just severance with per before it. Well now I'm going to start mispronouncing it.

It's just perseverance. Perseverance. I feel like excuse me, what? I've always admired human perseverance. Well, and also I have no idea how to spell severance. Yeah, that's what I always solves out of flow. That's an actually help. John, thank you for potting with me.

This podcast is edited by Joseph Tune of MetaShits, produced by Rosie on a Halsey Roll, Austin Sheridan Gibson. The music you're hearing now, and at the beginning of the podcast, it's by the great Gunnarola. And as they say in our hometown, don't forget to be awesome.

I had no idea that there was an A in Perseverance, by the way. Like, I just googled it, and I'm shocked. I'm shocked to learn that there's an A in Severance. Ha-ha. Ha ha!