Dear Hank & John - 256: A Lonely Road (w/Jacob Goldstein!)

Episode Date: September 7, 2020

What is money? How do you not look suspicious when you find $60,000? How do I tell my friend I'm uncomfortable hearing brag about their salary? What do I do now that I accidentally turned my boyfriend's sheets pink? How do you pick a car? How do I get comfortable calling myself a writer? How do I handle my friends throwing a birthday party for their dog on my birthday? John Green and Jacob Goldstein have answers!If you're in need of dubious advice, email us at [e-mail] us for monthly livestreams and an exclusive weekly podcast at patreon.com/dearhankandjohn.Follow us on Twitter! twitter.com/dearhankandjohn

Hello and welcome to Dear Hank and John. Or as I like to think of it, dear John and Jake, up. It's a podcast where two people answer your questions, provide you a dubious advice and bring you all the week's news from both Mars and AFC Whibble, and so long time listeners to this podcast will know that one of my dearest dreams in this veil of tears is to be on my all time favorite economics podcast, Planet Money. And that dream is not coming true. But instead, Planet Money is coming to us to dear Hank and John in the form of Planet Money

co-host Jacob Goldstein. Hello, Jacob. John, ask me what makes a great comedian? What makes a... Timing. How am I doing? My brother sets a very low bar for dad jokes, and I appreciated that one because you were a little late on the dear John and Jacob. I really enjoyed the inflation joke a few weeks ago. I felt like your brother was kind of horning in on my money dad joke, Venn diagram overlap.

Yeah, I feel like planet money does occasionally venture into the dad joke territory. It's almost a necessity when you're making jokes about economics. And you are a dad as I am. But that does remind me that Jacob has a book that has just come out as this podcast is being uploaded.

The book is called Money, the true story of a made up thing, and it is wonderful for anyone who is interested in money and economics and how we came to imagine money together. It's just, it's a phenomenally fun read, which is not something I ever thought I would say about an economics book. Thanks, man. You're welcome. Hey, so before we get to questions from our listeners, I want to ask you a question that we have frequently received from listeners and that we have answered in a way that turns out to be incorrect. I have learned since reading your book. So we've often been asked, like, what is money? How did money come to be? Why do we use money?

And our answer to that was that for a long time, people bartered, and that system became clunky, and so people invented money to replace that system. That turns out not to probably be true, right? Right. In fact, it is so probably not true that it has a name. It's called the myth of barter, right? The myth that money came from barter. And it's really interesting. I mean, to me, the myth of barter casts money

as this sort of cold thing that exists only in trade, right? Only in market exchange, which is reasonable. It's like sort of how we think about money. But in fact, and anthropologists have been pointing this out for decades, where money comes from is actually much more kind of warm and fuzzy and interpersonal and shared than that, which I kind of like. So in lots of traditional cultures, you know, small, non-industrial cultures, there are lots of norms about giving and getting and reciprocity when you give somebody stuff, what do they have to give you?

You know, some of the most important ones are like, if you're getting married very often, there's some set kind of thing where things you're supposed to give people, cattle, or kind of a classic. Another big one is murder. Actually, if you kill someone, then you owe their family some things, some set of things. And what the anthropologists have found is that is really where money comes from, is those norms. And to me, the big idea there is that money is not some just like cold market-based thing that exists outside

of human relationships. It's actually the opposite, right? It's some the opposite, right? It's some very deep, like, social agreement that we all come up with that sort of binds us all together. Yeah, and that's one of the things I love so much about the book is that it humanizes stories about economics and money, which often do feel so cold and distant, and it reminds us that economics is about people, and money is fundamentally about people and a set of ideas that we agree to together, which is sort of lovely. Yes.

And also that sort of set of ideas, you know, money, it keeps changing, right? Sometimes we know we're changing our ideas about money, sometimes we don't. But it's a thing that over time changes as people's needs and power dynamics in society change. Yeah, it's one of those weird things that is both reflection of us and that we reflect ourselves back into. It's like almost one of those infinity mirrors where you see infinite versions of yourself in the dressing room? Sure. This is not the best metaphor I've ever come up with, Jacob. I don't think I'm gonna go into the metaphor hall of fame

for that one. I mean, I love the mirror. You know the mirror I like is the one like at the science museum where if you lift one leg, it makes it look like both your legs are lifting. Yes. So that you're like floating in the air. I don't know, I'm off the metaphor here.

I'm just talking mirrors now. I grew up in Orlando, Florida, which is home to the mystery fun house. I don't know if it's still there, but it was like instead of going to Disney World or Universal Studios, if you only had $4, you went to the mystery fun house, and they had a lot of those mirrors. It's just as good a space mountain.

Yeah. I spent a lot of lonely afternoons with the mystery fun house. But let's move on to some questions from our listeners. But do check out Jacob's book, Money. That's not why he's on the podcast for the record. He's just a huge fan of Dear Hank and John. The true story of a made-up thing.

Ha ha ha. I'm out. Out now wherever books are sold. His first question comes from Ash, who writes, Dear John and Hank, I was wondering what you would do if you were driving on a lonely road north of Taylor, Nebraska. I mean, on a lonely road north of Taylor, Nebraska. I mean, aren't all roads north of Taylor, Nebraska fairly lonely? I feel like that was a little bit

unnecessary. Ash, anyway, tough with fair. And you saw a Navy blue suitcase lying on the side of the road that when open seemed to contain $60,000 in $100 bills. If you were to transfer this money into your bank account, how would you avoid making it look suspicious? Full of cash, ash. Wow, ash, congratulations on becoming the protagonist of, I guess, in the good version of it, a comedic romp, and in the bad version, like a Cohen Brothers movie.

Yes, all illusions to people going in woodchippers aside. I have a few thoughts about this. I mean, my first thought was like, I went down the whole like, should you take it? Should you like, you know, put up flyers throughout Taylor Nebraska found blue suit case. But, you know, then I thought there's a pretty high probability that whoever left a suitcase with $60,000 on it by the side of the road is not a good person, was not using that money for good. So maybe the moral thing to do is keep the money.

Yeah. I mean, if it's me, I'm going to turn it in to some kind of official, just because I don't want to get messed up in that. Yes. But that's clearly the right move. How traceable our $100 bills just out of curiosity? I mean, not very, I think. You know, I will say, so an interesting big idea to me here is that it seems pretty likely

that $100 bills worldwide are certainly largely maybe mostly used for crime. So there is this, like very mainstream, like Harvard economist used to be the chief economist at the IMF, Ken Rogoff. And he wrote this book a few years ago called The Curse of Cash. And his argument was basically big bills, hundreds, certainly fifties, they're just crime. They're just for crime, right?

That is the point of them. And we would be better off getting rid of them. I'm loving it. So I'm just gonna give you, like the fact about $100 bills are amazing. So, okay, there are $40, $100 bills, $4,000 in hundreds for every man, woman, and child in America. Where, where is that money? Nobody knows. Like, that is the whole point of paper money, right? The whole point of paper money. Right. Is that nobody knows where it is. Why else would you need $100 bills? A lot of it is on a lonely road north of Taylor, Nebraska, apparently.

Yeah, so less than there used to be, but yes. You know, I mean, there are some people outside of the US who use hundreds for, you know, good purposes. If you live in a country where the banks are unreliable, where the currency is unreliable. Like lots of people keep hundreds under the mattress because they don't have a better option. But clearly a ton of it is crime. I have a vivid memory of the first time I saw a $100 bill. I was 11 years old and I was at B's barbecue in Orlando, Florida. And somebody at the table next to me attempted to pay with 100.

And the waitress was like this is bees barbeque. It's just it's not going to happen. And there is a big there's like a big upset and there was a but I don't remember anything about the fight. I just remember staring at the hundred dollar bill and thinking like oh my god it's it's a hundred dollars all at once. In one you could fold it up in your hand and make it disappear. Yeah. And of course, like, see equivalent of like a, maybe $187 bill today. So it was more money back then. But still, well, $187 by inflation, but by like, how long you would have worked to have to get $100 then versus now is like maybe a more meaningful comparison, right?

When you're a kid, it's like a hundred times as a thousand times as valuable. Yeah, I stole a lot of money from my brother when I was a kid. I heard that. That was very recent on the show. You guys really... It could never steal $100. The baseball cards. Yeah.

We went deep on that. Here is the news you can use, Ash. Thank you for going with us on that journey, but now I'm going to tell you something important. And I hope it's not too late. Don't put that money in the bank. Oh, if you want to get away with it, don't put it in the bank. Banks have to report deposits of over $10,000. So what you should do is just spend it, spend it on grocery, spend it when you go out to dinner. You know, inflation is very low. The classic problem with holding cash is inflation erodes the value of your cash inflation.

That was just barely above zero. So just keep it. And for a long time, you'll be able to buy stuff and it'll feel like you're getting it for free because you kind of are. Wow. I didn't know Jacob that this podcast was going to be how to get away with major crimes, but I guess it is. Literally, that was basically the question.

Is it a crime? Oh, if you find the question. Is it a crime? Oh, if you find the money to keep it, I guess if you find $20 on the side of the road and you pick it up, no one would accuse you of stealing $20, right? I'm with you. We're going to have to get a third host in here who's an expert in law enforcement. This is not legal advice. This is not legal advice. Yeah, not not always it's not legal advice, Ash. I want to be clear that this is not legal advice. This is not legal advice. Yeah, not not only is this not legal advice, Ash, I want to be clear that this is not good advice. That's not our that's not our brand.

We're selling. We're here. We are in the dubious advice business, Ash, put all that money in the bank and tell them Jacob Goldstein sent you money, the true story of a made up thing. I think we should end every question with you. The little little book. No, I already feel embarrassed by doing it once. Oh, you've got to get good at that.

That's, if I have a piece of advice for you, it's, you have to let go of that part of you that doesn't want to plug your book. Well, I'm here, John. John, I'm here. I know. John, this next question comes from Emerson. I'm 23 and I have a friend I've known since preschool.

While we've been friends often on, we've been through a lot together, even moving from our small town to a big city. She moved again after she got a new job and I want to keep in touch with her, but every time we speak, she won't stop talking about how much money she makes, which is about five times as much as me. I'm getting to the point where I don't want to talk to her anymore. She's becoming a bit toxic.

Should I stop talking to her? Should I tell her to shut up about her salary already? Should I grit my teeth and deal with all the negative feelings in order to keep our friendship going? Neither Ralph nor Waldo, but Emerson. That's a good name, so this is an exciting off Emerson. This is always hard. I feel like there was a time, like when I was in my 20s,

the way that we had to deal with this problem was by talking about it, but now it's so easy, especially amid a pandemic to ghost someone. Like it's so easy to be like, oh yeah, I'm just not going to answer that text and then just kind of let the other end of the line die out. I feel like people ghosted me in the 90s. They just like stopped returning my voice mails. Yeah, I guess I did have one friend like break up with me. And it wasn't over me bragging about my salary, fortunately.

I think you have to talk about it. I think you have to say, look, every time you bring up the fact, first off, this person shouldn't obviously be bragging about how much money they're making. I'm sure that for them, it's a big part of their identity and it's something that they're very proud of and they want to share it with you because they're excited, but they need to have a level of empathy that allows them to understand that you are not in the same boat. And also, it's just gross. They should be able to get the vibe from you without you saying it, but they obviously aren't, so you need to say it. You need to say,

from you without you saying it, but they obviously aren't, so you need to say it. Like, you need to say, I'm sorry, it's so frustrating that every time we talk you say that you make, I'm trying to imagine what is five times like $170,000 a year. It's very frustrating. Please don't, like, why mention it? Just buy, just buy lunch. Like, what do you think? Is that what you're saying? What you're saying sounds right.

I will say, I think you are right. And what you are saying is not what I would do, just because I'm not good at having difficult frame conversations. And I think what I would do is just lose touch with the person for a while. Yeah, and maybe that's okay. Which is not the right thing.

You know, there's this famous book that I have not read, but I think of the title all the time. And the title is Exit Voice and Loyalty. Make it's Or Loyalty. As I said, I haven't read it. But like the idea is that like those are sort of three choices you have, right? And you know, in the relationship with people

or with institutions, again, I make this up, I'm saying, I read it. And like, Exit is like my big move. Not in the family setting to be clear, but like, that's like my big move. Not in a family setting to be clear, but like, that's just what I do. And I'm not proud of it, and I don't think it's the best move,

but it's what I do. And I think it's, I mean, I do it a lot too. I'm not what I think Emerson should do and what I would do are not the same thing. I want to say what you were saying is clearly the mature, yeah, healthy, let's have good relationships in our lives and work through things, move.

I feel like you probably know a lot of people who brag a lot about how much money they make just based on where you live and what you do. I certainly know a lot of people who have made a lot of money. And people who, you know, one of my closest friends from college, a good friend of mine from Planet Money, left and started a company and sold it for a lot of money.

And he is like the most like, low key, sweet guy in the world. I'm not super interested in money, but one does question one's choices at times. Yeah. Was that kind of a concept? I mean, I don't know. No, it's true.

I think it's true. I think that like, I mean, John, like, not to be crass, but like you, I presume have made a lot of money. Have you ever been on the sort of other side of this in a friendship where the fact that you made a lot of money made a friendship awkward, you were to an old friend or something?

Not really. You know, we definitely have enough money. And I think all of our friends know that we have enough money. We tried very hard not to change much about how we were living. I didn't buy like a different car when the fault in our stars became successful or anything like that. Like we tried to keep the same life and keep the same friends. And I think that has allowed it to be minimally disruptive. And also like kind of maximally beneficial.

That's nice. In general, whenever we answer money questions, Jacob, I try to remind Hank and to remind myself of this moment in the television program, 30 Rock, where Jack Donagee was attempting to make a rhetorical point and said, say you purchase a gallon of milk at the grocery store, which costs $12.

And not knowing what milk costs is an example of like being removed from reality. And Emerson, I think what may have happened is that this person is a little bit removed from reality. And Emerson, I think what may have happened is that this person is a little bit removed from reality. And if you can help bring them back to reality, that's great. And if you can't, do what Jacob and I would do. Bale.

All right, Jacob, we have another question. And this is one of those emergency questions that we really like to answer, but we like to answer them about eight weeks late. Once the emergency has definitely resolved itself one way or another and we can no longer be of any use whatsoever service journalism. That's right. This question is from Charlie who asks, dear John and Hank, help. I washed my boyfriend's new sheets and now they are pink. Help. This is the greatest thing Charlie that has ever happened to your relationship because it's the

perfect test of the boyfriend of the relationship, right? If the boyfriend is good, he will say, thank you so much for washing my sheets, which you totally didn't have to do because they're my sheets. I love them. That's promising. That's a necessary, if not sufficient component of being a good boyfriend in the alternative. He might be angry that you turned his sheets pink in washing them, which is a thing you shouldn't have to do because he could wash his own sheets. And if he's angry, that is a very compelling sign. If I might say so, sorry, but it's an advice show that he is a bad boyfriend. Yeah, I agree. Also, like, they're arguably better. Yeah. Right? Like before, before you had

white sheets, which show all kinds of stains and now you have pink sheets, which are, which are I think better. I feel like other people should do this on purpose as a test, like if you're in the early part of relationship, far enough in to be washing sheets, but, you know, kind of trying to figure out, like, do I really take the next step here, just turn the sheets pink and see what happens.

I'm trying to think of like, when I first washed Sarah's of like when I first washed Sarah's sheets and when she first washed mine, and I assume that it was around at the time we got married. So like I don't, it's hard to like get that, get that in as an early test. Different people live different kinds of lives. That's true, that's true, that's true.

I think we were definitely engaged though. I mean, your Victorian norms of washing are fine. They are very Victorian. They're very old fashioned. I believe that, yeah, when you wash the sheets of another, you have truly made a commitment. Our next question comes from Hannah, who writes, dear John and Jacob, how do you buy a car?

I'm not wondering how to transfer money to a party that owns the car that you want, but rather, how do you choose the car that you want? I'm trying to buy a new car, but it's a lot of pressure to choose a car that simultaneously expresses your personality and you'll need for the next decade is a reasonable price you can afford, but also, you know, won't break down all the time and cost you lots of money in the future. Please help, not banana or Montana, Hannah. So I last purchased a car in 2012,

and it is at least partly because I found the process so unpleasant that my feeling about buying a car is that I would like to delay it for as long as possible. So please tell me how to buy a car, Jacob. John, I last bought a car in May. Oh, of this year? Yes. And I loved it. What?

I was like, basically, my other job was buying a car. Oh, wow. I, um, well, so, for a lot of reasons, I hadn't had a car for a long time. And I got so into buying it that I was thrilled to hear this question. One thing I have often wondered is like, how do economists buy cars? Like what cars do economists buy? Like the people who know the most about,

oh that's fun. Utility and whatever. One of the most famous economics papers of the last, I don't know, 50 years or something was called The Market for Lemons years or something was called the market for lemons, quality uncertainty, and the market mechanism by Georgia Acroloff. And the idea of this economics paper was, is it was about the used car market

as sort of an example of markets where one party, one person, one side has more information than the other side. So in the case of used cars, the person selling the car party one person one side has more information than the other side. Right. So in the case of used cars, the person selling the car knows more about the car than the buyer. Right. And the basic insight of the paper was, if somebody's got a car that's a lemon, which

is what people used to call a bad car, a car that breaks down a lot, just wasn't put together well, whatever, they're going to be likely to sell that car. And if somebody has a car that's great, they're not going to be likely to sell that car. And if somebody has a car that's great, they're not going to be likely to sell that car. So like fundamentally, if you're buying a used car, according to the logic of this famous paper, there's a good chance you're going to get a bad car. Right. The news you can use version of that, what I have found useful when I have bought used cars is take it to a mechanic and pay the mechanic to look at it. That is the dad advice for buying a used car. Pay the mechanic whatever, a hundred bucks,

since when I bought a used car a long time ago, and have them look at it and tell you what's wrong with it and how much it would cost to fix it. That's a pretty good solution to the lemon problem. You're reducing the information asymmetry if we wanna use the jargon, right? And maybe the reason I have found car buying so stressful is that I have always bought used

cars and been keenly aware of that information asymmetry, and that's part of what has made me feel so uncomfortable. Also just the physical process of buying a car, at least as I recall, it takes like six hours. It's astonishingly, I feel like I could buy a dog or a home or a small private island more quickly and efficiently than I can purchase a used car. And that may have changed in the last eight years.

Well, certainly, if you're buying from a dealer, so take it to a shop, if you're buying it from a person, if you're buying from a dealer, there are things that help the internet. I mean, just on the level of like, what kind of car to get like super dead, but consumer reports is actually quite good. There's this thing called the insurance institute for highway safety, which is clever because it's insurance companies which have a vested financial interest in you not dying if you get into a car accident, right? So they actually buy cars and crash them and tell you which ones are safe.

So that's good. But then also once you're actually buying the car, there are sites where you can go and say what kind of car you wanna buy and where you live, and they will have dealers send you prices, which is not the fake price in the window, but like an actual price-ish that you could buy the car for. That all makes me kind of want a new car.

I'm going to tell you more. Okay. If you're buying a car from a dealer, they will say to you, not how much money do you want to spend on this car, they'll say, what monthly payment do you have in mind? And this is a trap, basically, because they want to get you into a loan and there's financing and there's fees and the loan might go for a really long time and there might be a high interest rate. So your job when they say,

what kind of monthly payment can you afford is to say, let's figure out the price of the car and then we can work out if we're gonna do financing or whatever after, because you wanna just get a real price. And then once you say the price, they will say a price. Once you say that, after a while, they will say some price. Then say, is that like actually the price I'm gonna pay

or are there a bunch of other fees? And then they will tell you all of the other fees. And that's the actual price. And then you can negotiate from there. Jacob, I feel like you have gone full dad and in the same way that my father helps me with every aspect of a major purchase, you have just helped me feel so much better about the day that is likely coming soon when my Chevy Volt becomes untenable.

I'm delighted to be useful. Wait, wait, so what card did you end up getting? I bought a Toyota Rev 4 Hybrid. Oh. And, you know, Hannah mentioned that she wanted a car that like expresses her personality. And like my first two thoughts when I read that thought one was like, oh, a car doesn't need to represent your personality. It's just transportation. Right.

And the Toyota Rev 4 Hybrid I just bought is the perfect manifestation of my middle-aged dad. Yeah, I think there's a very high probability that when my beloved Chevy Volt finally dies, I'm going to purchase a minivan. Oh, that would be a great move. I love minivan. Captain Steven. Every time I get into my best friend's minivan. Two sliding doors, sliding doors.

I know, you don't have to open the doors. It's the Cadillac of minivans. There are some very nice minivans out there. There's one with a built-in vacuum cleaner. That's the kind of experience that I'm looking for in a car. I like that, I like that, like the recognition of the family reality there. Yeah. They know the world

We're living in when they put a vacuum cooler in the car. Exactly. So all in all Hannah, either get a Toyota Rev4 or get a minivan That's our recommendation. That's that's how we think that you should express your personality Which reminds me that today's podcast is brought to you by min vans, many vans. They express a certain personality. And by $60,000 sitting by the side of the road, if you pick it up, don't put it in the bank. $60,000 in cash sitting by the side of the road. I wish I could be sponsored by $60,000 in cash sitting by the side of the road just north of Taylor, Nebraska. Also today's podcast is brought to you by money, the true story of a made up thing, the new book by Jacob Goldstein. Not actually sponsored by,

but I love it. And by pink sheets, the perfect litmus test for a new relationship. Or like an older relationship. If you're living in 1875. And which apparently I am. We also have a project for all of us to read from Sam from Minnesota. Thank you, thank you to those who are staying home to help prevent the spread of COVID. Thank you to those who continue to go into work and who are keeping society going.

Thank you for all of your personal sacrifice. We are all struggling. And I want to recognize your perseverance and resiliency in a time of constant change and feeling of the future being more unknown than ever before. Thank you, DFTBA. Sam, what a lovely way to spend your project for awesome donation.

Thank you for saying thank you. Our next question comes from Campbell. Dear Jacob and John, I'm currently writing a book and would like to talk about it. The only problem is that whenever I do bring it into conversation with friends, family, strangers, et cetera, I feel very childish. I only recently gained the confidence

to even be able to call myself a writer. I have not yet called myself that and I have a book coming out with tomorrow, despite writing for five years. And I feel a lot of conflict in discussing things I'm passionate about because my generation often associates passion with cringe. It's been very discouraging, especially since I don't really like to talk as it is.

Dubious advice is appreciated. Mm-mm, good. Campbell. Yes, so there is something really difficult about calling yourself a writer. And I think part of it comes from the social order having all these expectations about what constitutes a writer. Some of it comes from the social order really wanting to put people into specific boxes and not really knowing which box to put words like artist or writer into.

Jacob, I wonder if it's been different or weird for you. I mean, you're publishing your first book tomorrow like trying to think of yourself or call yourself a writer as you're promoting this book as opposed to, I mean, you've been a journalist for a long time. Yeah, yes. I'm definitely more comfortable thinking of myself as a journalist than as a writer,

although for no good reason. Yeah. I mean, for me, the important thing is not the sort of identity, like what am I, thing, but rather just finding work that I like doing more or less when I'm doing it, right? Like not every day, but basically work that I like doing more or less when I'm doing it, right? Like not every day, but basically work that I like doing. And in the context of the question, finding people who know how to do the work that I'm

doing, who are struggling with similar things, who I can talk to, not in great big abstract ways, but in really specific ways. Like, I'm having this particular problem where there's this narrative that's supposed to happen, but also I have to explain whatever fractional reserve banking. And so how do we keep the story going while also explaining fractional reserve banking? And people who have worked on those kinds of things and can help me solve them, those are my real people, my real talk to about work people. And so Campbell, I hope you can find people who are in some way doing the kind of work you're doing

and talk with them about your work. I feel like that's the most promising sort of place to look. Yeah, that is so much of where I get joy in work is in collaboration and not just in collaboration with like people I know. I mean, if you think about writing a novel as an isolating or solitary experience, but really it's not because not only am I collaborating with like people in my family, my friends

who are telling me stories and saying things to me, I'm also collaborating with lots and lots of people. I'm collaborating with people who died 500 years ago because like their thoughts are in my mind-scape. And that sense of like building something with people in conversation with people in response to people is so much of where the joy of making stuff comes from for me. And it's why I still like making YouTube videos. It's because I get to, I mean, I can say this because my brother is in here. Like it's because I get to collaborate with my brother. It's such a joy to have him to talk to about work, that like the work itself is almost incidental.

The joy is being with him and being interested in the same stuff together. All passion, no cringe. Yeah, no cringe, no cringe. No cringe, no cringe. That's the cringe. Yeah, no cringe. And I know that there's a thing now

where sincerity or earnestness is treated as cring or trying to harder, whatever. Try hard. I know that that's an insult now, but like, try hard. That's great. I think that should be celebrated. All right, Jacob, we got another question. This one comes from Robin who writes, dear John and Hank, my friend decided to throw a birthday party for her dog. The date of the party is on my birthday. I have told my friends many times when my birthday is, but none of them care enough to remember.

Should I go to the party and not say anything to see if any of them will remember, or should I tell the host that that day is my birthday? Oh boy, Robin, dodges. I mean, I don't think anyone who loves me knows when my birthday is except for my spouse. Happy birthday, John. Let me say happy birthday. I don't know if that's a comfort to you, Robin, but like, I don't know. I feel like unless you tell people that your birthday is coming up,

they never know, or unless they're frequent Facebook users. She told them though, can we go back to the text? She told them many times. That's true, she did tell them many times. I mean, this one does remind me of the friend who made a lot of money, right? Like, it's another one where it's like, here is this uncomfortable thing. Do you bring it up?

Wait, what are those three ideas from that book that you didn't read? I really like that. Exit voice loyalty. Exit voice loyalty. I'm also going to not read this book, but they deeply inspired by it. Right. It's like it's just there on the shelf of your mind, even if it's not on your actual shelf. So what is loyalty in that? I know what exit and voice are. Loyalty, in this case, means you just go to the party and you don't

say anything, right? So exit is like bail. we're not friends anymore. Voice is like, hey, it's my birthday, like I told you so many times. And loyalty is you just go. I'm probably gonna just go to this birthday party and I'm gonna celebrate this dog and then I'm gonna go home and be a little bit sad but also happy that I, no, I would just be sad. Probably like right as the day is about to end

and I think I'm gonna make it through. I'm gonna break down and text one of those friends and say, you know what was my birthday too? Not just rovers. First of all, no dogs are actually named Rover anymore. I don't have this campaign to stop generically referring to dogs as Rover. A, what's a good generic dog name?

Let's do it right now. Let's rename Rover. I mean, I don't want it to be Jake, but it's maybe for personal reasons. Okay, no, I like this. Buddy. How about buddy? Buddy.

There are a lot of dogs named Buddy, right? There's two dogs in my neighborhood named Maya. Maya, that's not a dog name. No, it's a human name, and I don't know, I don't understand why two different people named their dogs Maya. I like Buddy. I've talked about like, what's the least dog name?

My wife and I like, what, we've got a dog. We're like, what if we name him Justin? Yeah, I've never heard of a dog name Justin. Right, exactly. Jaden. I feel like any name that starts with J and ends with N is a bad dog name. And I'm not just saying that because I am named John

and I don't like dogs named John. Dog names tend to end with, like, e sounds, like buddy or Maggie or Libby or things like that. Yeah, like kind of diminutive, right? There's a little bit of a diminutive vibe. That's it. Rover is over. Rover is definitely over. We live in the buddy era now. Buddy, September 1st, 2020 is the beginning of the buddy era, which also is going to be a turning point. We solved all the problems except the negligent cruelty of Rob and buddy era, which also is gonna be a turning point. We're soft all the problems, except the negligent cruelty of Robin's friends,

which we'll say for another day. The buddy era is gonna be so much better than the Rover era. I mean, we're gonna look back on September 1st, 2020. This is it. John, I've been waiting. I've been waiting. I'll be honest.

I've been uncomfortable and a little bit scared. And now for the first time in months, I feel hopeful. I do too. And now for the first time in months, I feel hopeful. I do too. We're in the, we're in the buddy era now. Things are gonna be so much better. Just, I mean, I think it's definitely gonna get worse. Happy birthday.

Yeah. Oh, I couldn't get all the way to happy birthday, dear buddy. Robin, it just occurs to me that critically, Jacob and I failed to wish you a happy birthday. Happy birthday. Robin. Happy birthday failed to wish you a happy birthday. Happy birthday, Robin. Happy birthday. And buddy can. Happy birthday.

That is nothing to us. Yeah. It's all you, Robin. And also, I mean, do we really even know buddy's birthday or is that just like the day buddy came home and they celebrate the anniversary, etc. But did they they adopted him or whatever? It's not even his real birthday. It's not.

It's not. But it is. Robin, it's your real birthday. birthday. It's not. It's not. But it is. Robin, it's your real birthday. This is your day, Robin. Happy birthday. We have no idea what you should do with your friends. All right, Jacob, it's time for the all-important news from Mars and AFC Wimbledon.

I know that you've listened to the podcast some. I don't know if you have any Mars news prepared, but just in case you don't, I'll give you a second to Google some while I share with you the thrilling news from AFC Wimbledon. Big guys with little butts. Little guys with big butts. Which is it going to be? Only two kinds of soccer players in this world. So when you're like a Premier League club, like a big, you know, international brand, the

moment you release your like new kit every year, your home in a way, jerseys, is this huge event, and it's a big deal. And usually for Wimbledon, it's not a big deal because the release of the jerseys is identical to the previous years jerseys. Like maybe they change over like every three or four seasons. That's really a release when you put it that way, isn't it? But this year, not only are there new jerseys, they are amazing. I'll admit to being a little bit biased, but

because this is the season that Wimbledon is going back to Plow Lane, there are all kinds of like visual Easter eggs in the Jersey that reference moments from Wimbledon's past over the last 120 years. And on the back of the jerseys and like small, really cool letters, it says back to Plow Lane. And the, oh my God, it's such a good, it's such a good Jersey. The O'Wake hit is a really bright, lively, yellow.

I have never been so excited to get my annual AFC Wimbledon jersey. I can't recommend going, if you live in London and you don't have an AFC Wimbledon jersey, what are you even doing with your life? Do you have any news from Mars? You know, I do, John. I am.

Oh, wow. I don't know a lot about Mars, but I know how to call up experts and get them to tell me the news. That's literally my job. Oh wow. So that's what I did. Oh my gosh.

You did reporting. I did. I did. I'm literally a reporter and I literally did reporting. That's the first time we've ever had reporting on this program. Yeah. I'm literally a reporter here. Hold on.

Can I just play it for you? Yes. Can you say your name and your job, please? Sure. I'm Dr. Addy Dove. Here, hold on, can I just play it for you? Yes! Can you say your name and your job, please? Sure, I'm Dr. Addy Dove. I am an assistant professor in the Physics Department, ACF, and I do Planetary Science Research. So if I want Mars news, can you help?

I can help, yes. Great. Yeah. Addy told me about the Mars Insight Lander, which has been sitting on the surface of Mars since 2018. It has this really cool arm that actually deployed several of the instruments. Sort of, we always think of it like the claw,

and you play the claw game, and it's got this really awesome, really high sensitivity seismometer that sits on the surface of Mars and looks for Mars quakes. Is there news from this seismometer that's sitting there on the surface of Mars? There is some news. So Mars has these two moons. So we have one moon here on Earth, the moon, and then Mars has two little teeny tiny moons called Phobos and Demos. And actually,

like Phobos' orbit is decaying, so it's actually going to fall into Mars at some point. Atty says these moons are so small that when they pass between Mars and the Sun, there's not an eclipse or anything. They just block a tiny bit of light and make it a little cooler, like on Earth when a cloud passes in front of the Sun. And there's this new paper, this is the news part, where scientists use the seismometer to measure what happens to the ground when Phobos passes in front of the Sun and the ground gets cooler. And so as it gets cooler, the ground actually moved a little bit just because it basically like it shrunk a little bit right at the teeny teeny teeny tiny amount. Okay. Wow.

And what is the implication of that? Like what does that tell us? So why does that matter? Right? I wasn't going to be that blunt, but yeah. So what? So it's interesting because it actually gives us better data about fobos itself, so it tells us more precisely what fobos' orbit is if they can do these measurements.

And so, and those are the models we used to say, how long we think it'll stay in orbit and how long till it crashes toward the surface. It's still unclear exactly how long fobos has, but the order of magnitude is like tens of millions of years. Oh, that's a big relief. Thanks so much. It's fun to put you. Okay, thanks. Bye.

You too. You can sleep easy. Okay, oh my god, that's whole thing is so, this is amazing. Jacob, you made me a miniature little, not about economics, planet money episode for Dear Hakejohn. This is, I'm having the best day. That was so cool. Also, I'm for the record, I'm having the best day. That was so cool.

Also, for the record, I'm very relieved that that moon isn't going to crash into Mars for tens of millions of years. That is a good... It's a load off, right? It's one less thing to worry about. It's a huge relief for me. I have a lot of Mars-related anxiety that my brother has caused, and now at least one of those problems has been solved.

Next time he waves the fobo's crashing into Mars, you know, red cape in front of your face, just be like tens of millions of years ahead, back off. I love it. Thank you so much for that. That was just amazing. Yes, fun. And thank you so much for, for, for potting with me.

Oh, it was great. It was so kind and generous of you to have me on. It was really fun. I love your show. Well, thank you. And Hank and I both love playing it money so much. And thank you for all of your great work there. And congratulations on your book.

It's a great book. Check it out. It's called Money. The True Story of a Made Up Thing. This podcast is edited by Joseph Tudor Mettich. It's produced by Rosie on House of Rohass and shared in Gibson. Our head of communications is Julia Bloom. The music that you're listening to right now,

and also at the beginning of the podcast is by the great Gunerola, and as they say in our hometown, don't forget to be awesome. Don't forget to be awesome! That was great! you