Dear Hank & John - 322: Front Row Salad Bar (w/ Sarah Urist Green!)

Episode Date: February 25, 2022

How do you eat salad without looking weird? Should I wear makeup to a job interview if I don't usually wear it? Why are word games so fun? When does "late" turn into "stood up"? Why does clothing changes sizes in luggage? How do I find people who want what I make? How do I enjoy a hobby without being the best at it? John Green and Sarah Urist Green have answers!If you're in need of dubious advice, email us at [e-mail] us for monthly livestreams and an exclusive weekly podcast at patreon.com/dearhankandjohn.Follow us on Twitter! twitter.com/dearhankandjohn

Hello and welcome to Dear Hank and John. Or this week as we're calling it Dear John and Sarah. Or Dear Sarah and John. It's an advice podcast where we answer your questions, provide you with Dubie's advice and bring you all the week's news from both Mars and AFC Wimbledon. It's a little bit different this week, not only because I'm joined, not by my brother Tiktok sensation Hank Green, but by Sarah Eurost Green, my spouse,

who's also a Tiktok sensation. Right, I started Tiktok getting last week. I know. I think I have five. One of the best text messages I've ever received in my entire life came from Sarah. I was driving home from the office and Sarah texted me, I'm making my first TikTok and I'm not sure if it's good but I

don't want to overthink it. And then three seconds later she texted but maybe I should overthink it. Question mark, question mark. Which is just a chef's perfect example of overthinking. The way that I work is just not internet friendly. Like the internet embraces a bold, confident utterances. And I like to really think things over and carefully craft something. And I've really been working against that for years. And Tiktok was a new exploration for me, but it was fun. I think you're doing a great job.

You can find me at the art assignment. There you go. Great promo, Sarah. You say you're not good at the internet, but that was some high-quality internet advertising. Thank you. Speaking of high-quality internet advertising, this podcast is available to you in the way that it is at the time that it is, because it is currently, as you are listening to this, assuming that you're listening to

it around the time that it was uploaded, it is currently the project for awesome. Our communities annual 48 hour fundraiser where 100% of the proceeds go to charity and you can get lots and lots of different Rewards for your donation including a project for awesome exclusive episode of dear Hank and John Which is one of Hank and I's favorite things to do every year We only answer questions from people who donated to get that perk or else got the digital download bundle You can get all 150 of my private tic-tocks

Wow you can get all 150 of my private TikToks. I have. Wow. There's some golden there, sir. Yeah, I know. There's 137 real high quality TikToks and 13. I've been witness to the creation of a lot of them. And I've also been witness not to argue here to some of your rehearsals. Oh, I do love a rehearsal. He likes to sort of talk it out. Well, the way I write is by talking. Yeah.

And so when I'm writing a TikTok or I'm talking it out. Does this sound right? Yeah, I'm trying to see if the arch of it is what I want it to be and all that stuff. Right. So you can get lots of different perks, only at ProjectFarossum.com slash Donate and only during the ProjectFarossum. So we are making this as a no-cut special. That's right. No cuts because. No cuts, no apologies.

Because we don't have any time because the project for awesome is happening. Yes. And we can't. I've been making perks too, Jim. I know I'm going to get to that. We can't deliver the podcast this late and have edits. So here we are. No cut special raw and unfiltered. It's the full Sarah and John experience. Sarah has made some amazing perks for this year's project for awesome, including. Yeah. So last year I made a large series of 50, what I call collage poems, which is where I take images and little text clips from my collection of vintage magazines and put them together in these interesting combinations.

I am making 20 of those, but I'm also making two new kinds of collages, brand new, one Star Wars collages. We recently repainted our son's bedroom. And he had these Star Wars decals on the ceiling. And when he didn't want them anymore, and so I was pulling them off, and they came off perfectly and cleanly. And I was like, well, this is an opportunity.

So I took them into my workspace and sort of slapped Dash the on to some vintage magazine pages. And I thought they looked really cool. So I've developed those. I think there are nine of those. Yeah, let's not say it was slap-dashed. I've seen you working on them. And in fact, it's been dozens of them.

Oh, no, no, okay. So the initial placement of the decal was slapped up. Oh, okay, but every time I was able to peel them off and replace them. They're very good. And then I also have a series of 20 architectural image collages where I took some prints, not real prints, like, you know, like not super important. Prince, I have some architectural photographs by the photographer, Julia Schulman. And I added over top interesting and amusing images from my magazines.

Yeah, they're all really cool. You got to check them out at Project Frossum.com slash donate. There's something for everyone. You can see like funny collages. You can see examples of the collages at the site. So projectfossum.com slash donate is where you go. We're also doing a live stream that goes from Friday at noon Eastern time until Sunday at noon Eastern time. So thanks to everybody in our community for making the project for awesome such a big deal. This is the 15th one we've raised over $12 million for charity.

I am so, so just overwhelmed by what the P4A has accomplished. And thank you. Thanks for being part of it with us. Check out the live stream if you can. Donate if you can. And otherwise, just enjoy the rest of this episode of Dear Hank and John. Beginning with this question from Ella and Leah. Sarah, this question really got me going. Dear John and Sarah, how do you eat salad without looking weird? The lettuce is too big and it doesn't fit in your mouth. And then you have to awkwardly either let the extra lettuce fall back into your bowl from your mouth, or you have to find a way to unoccurably eat a humongous piece of lettuce all at once, which involves just so much chomping. A sality, calamity, Ella and Leah, exclamation point. That's an excellent question.

I have lots of thoughts about this. Do you want me to go first? I can go first. Here's what I want to say about it. When I am meeting salad, especially when I'm meeting salad where there's whole leaves or large parts of leaves, I think to myself, this is, I always think to myself, I am a mammal. Right. And I am like a cow chewing cudd. I am a mammal eating leaves. See, I feel like I'm like a dinosaur, like reaching for the tall leaves. Yes, yes, like the, right, like looking for the good

leaves, like Brontosaurusources, you know, right. I was thinking about this recently, and so I looked up how much brontasources a day per day, 1140 pounds of leaves. Wow. A day. Well, that's what they did all day. Yeah, do you think they got tired of it? Do you think that, like, do you think that they were

the sense, like, how when we're at work, you know, like, keep chewing. Like, when I'm, I'll give you an example. When I'm in the garden, I love vegetable gardening, but there are definitely times where I'm like, God, this is a lot of work. I wonder if the Brontosaurus was like, oh my God, I can't believe I have to get up today

and he did another 1140 pounds of leaves. As opposed to like flipping through TikToks for hours. I just wonder if the Brontosaurus was like. Only there was TikTok. I'm just wondering, I just wondered if it brought us away. Only there was TikTok. I'm just wondering, do you feel kind of low level euphoria because you're doing the thing that you're supposed to do and you're feeding your body? Or do you feel like, God, this is a lot of effort?

And I just wish I could dig a day off, but my body needs 1140 pounds of yeast. OK, back to the question, however. And this reminds me of one of my favorite moments when I was in grad school studying art history. There was a very well-known art historian in And one day, she came into a potential professor's talk, that was a lunchtime lecture, where somebody who wanted to teach at the school came and gave a presentation.

So we're all in there, lunchtime lecture. In she walks, powerhouse that she is, comes and sits right in the walks, powerhouse that she is, comes and sits right in the front, brings out a very crinkly bag, pulls out like a plastic clamshell container, filled with giant salad, and she just digs in. It's crunchy. It's loud. There's huge pieces of lettuce going everywhere and it was really distracting. The guy presenting and like not only was she intimidating but she was also eating this ridiculous salad. And like my thought was like stop laughing Sarah. Like be cool, be cool. But my other thought was what a power move. You know?

That's right. I want that. What if you just eat your salad and you know that you look kind of like a ravenous monster, but you just say like, that's right, I'm eating the salad. Yeah, I am, you're right. I am a mammal. And I do have to eat things to sustain my departure from chemical equilibrium. And I will not apologize. And I was told this was a lunchtime lunch. And so I will not apologize.

And if the piece of salad is too big, I will bite it in half and let the other half drop into my bowl. And if it's not too big, I will try to eat it all at once. And that's who I am. That said, I don't choose a salad in all situations. First, you want to eat what you actually want to eat. Like if you really want to eat a salad and you feel like a salad, great, go for it. But if you just kind of like need some fuel

for whatever you're doing and you need to be quiet and you don't and you might be embarrassed with whoever you're with, you know, sandwiches can sometimes also be awkward, but like think about it, like a bowl of something. God, I love a sandwich. I wish I had a sandwich. I just realized I have an eatin' to-da

and I really wanna sandwich. But that can also be, that can also be awkward if it's really big. When you're trying to eat it. Is it gonna be weird for you if I order a sandwich right now while you read the next question? No, but we have sandwich making, John. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

No. You just, so I want to quote something you just said, because I thought it was so beautiful. Okay. When you are hungry, you know what you want. Oh, okay. And you know. So I am going to proceed onto this question.

Hello, Greenbrose. From Emily. Hello, Greenbrose. And I'm assuming you also mean green Sarah. I don't normally wear makeup, but I have some big interviews coming up. Should I wear makeup to look professional at the interview and then never wear makeup again?

Would they think I'm lying? I would love some tubious advice. Why lie backwards, Emily? This reminds me. So when I first started working up Bookless Sarah, just before we reconnected and started talking. When I first, oh, that's the other thing that you can get for the project for awesome is Sarah and I do an annual podcast, which we just recorded called the like letters, where we read the

emails that we wrote each other back and forth during the year and a half before we started dating. And they're the sweetest, cringiest, most amazing letters. This year's was particularly cringy. Oh boy, I could barely get through it. Which I hope is like impetus for you all to want to give. Yeah, we're genuinely hoping that you forgive us for how cringy it is. Right. But back to Emily's question.

Yes. Can I tell you about books? Okay. So my first day at my first grown-up job or like, I don't know, my first full-time job out of school, I went into the office. I attempted a bunch of places and so I was like, whatever. I was just, I went into the office, I interviewed with them for like 15 minutes and I was wearing a nice button down shirt and I was wearing pleated pants as you remember and I and and everybody I left and then they hired me and I so I came back the next day and everybody

Apparently was commenting on how he was such a nice put together a young man And he really seems to have his act together and then I show up the next day and the way that my boss Eileen Cooper would later describe it. She said, I saw you walk in and you had the front of your shirt tucked in and I was like, oh he looks okay and then you walked past me and the back of your shirt was not tucked in and your pant leg was like inside of your sock and I was like hmm well we'll see. Yeah. So should you wear makeup? Yeah I think you do need to feel comfortable. So if the makeup is going to make you feel uncomfortable. I wouldn't do it. I think you should look put together, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. But I don't think you need to wear makeup. I don't think you need to wear makeup.

But I don't think that it's because they're going to think you're lying. I think I know that for plenty of interviews, I have worn things that I would never wear. And like now that I think about it, I'm like, oh, that doesn't matter. It's not like you're lying. It's more about you being, what are you gonna feel comfortable and confident and as unnerv as you can feel in that?

And if you're gonna feel like a clown, if you're gonna feel like a clown in makeup or like not like yourself, then I wouldn't do it. I am curious whether it's a Zoom interview or an in-person interview. If it's, I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but if it's Zoom, for me personally, I didn't start wearing like, I still don't wear very much makeup, but I did start at some point in my 20s wearing brighter bolder lipstick, not a lot of makeup otherwise. I've never been really capable of doing that well, but like the lipstick, like if I applied

it carefully and well, it made me feel like I was trying. It made me feel like I had some style and personality, even if everything else was sort of boring. And or in my mind, whatever. So like, I don't know. I think whatever makes you feel good and confident. Whatever makes you feel good and confident. Whatever makes you feel good and confident. I agree.

Now, let's move on to this very important question from a non-Ansara. Okay. Dear Sarah and John, why are word games like wordle so fun? And then they had, they signed off the DBAFT with a green square and four yellow squares. Very good sign off. Just very good.

But if you don't know what Whartle is, it's a game that... They know what Whartle is. Some people don't. A lot of people play on the internet where you try to guess a five-letter word. And people are obsessed with it. And two of the people who are obsessed with it are speaking to you right now. Yes. And we were late to Whartle.

Not that late. I mean, we've been playing Whartle for almost a month. Yeah. I felt like I was late to Whirlpool. I love Whirlpool games. They, especially Whirlpool, it's a quick game. Yes. I like to play it in the morning after I've had my first cup of coffee.

And it's like a little, little achievable something. Sometimes it's achievable. I'm, but you know, I don't always do well, but it's like, it just sort of like gets my mind going. A lot of other word games are very obsessive and unending. Right, right. Like, we also know about this.

The spell or Scrabble. Sarah and I can fall pretty far down a Scrabble or Spelling B, rabbit hole. The great thing about wordle is that it ends. So I have a theory, I mean, I think I know what people love about wordle or I think I know what I love about it anyway, which is that what I love about word games

is that I feel frustrated and I don't know how to solve a problem and I don't know how to solve a problem and I feel like confused and a little bit almost annoyed. And then those feelings resolve in pleasure, which is the opposite of how real life feels, which is that I feel confused and frustrated and I don't know how to solve any problems. and that is the situation. And you go to sleep and you wake up again and you feel confusion and yeah, so yeah, enjoyable mind, mind-occupying game. But it gives you enough of the feeling of frustration that when it resolves, it feels really good.

Yes. And this is also exactly what I like about writing, is that I feel frustrated and confused, and I don't know how to express myself, and I can't find language for something, and then it resolves. Right. And that feeling of resolution is so pleasurable that I will suffer through almost anything to get it. And that is what writing is for me. Well, that's like a lot of creative processes.

Yes. Like, some people think that if you're doing any sort of creative enterprise that it sort of needs to feel good, it'll be totally pleasurable. But most of the artists and makers, I know, struggle through it, and that struggle is sort of part of the process. Yeah, there's a great line often attributed to a glorious dynamite. I don't like writing. I like having written. Yes. And I think what I like about having written is having gotten frustrated, having felt overwhelmed, and then at least coming to some sense of resolution about it. Right.

It's actually a lot like when I make my collages. I have this puzzle, like I have an image I really want to use, or a phrase I really want to use. And it's not working, it's not quite right. And then it comes together. Yeah. And it feels really satisfying. And then I glue it down. Right. And it's not working, it's not quite right. And then it comes together. Yeah. And it feels really satisfying. And then I glue it down.

Right. And it's done. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the feeling that we're all after. And so I think sometimes making creative work just about, like, hey, does this give you energy? Does it fuel your soul?

Right. It's a little bit of an oversimplification because the ways that it fuels my soul are actually quite complicated. Right. OK. This next question is from K. I was supposed to go on a date with someone from a dating app and it's been 10 minutes since we were supposed to meet and she hasn't shown up or contacted me yet. How long do I wait before I can safely say I've been stood up and leave? Not feeling okay. Okay. It's a tough one. It's been 10 minutes.

There's so. So, let me tell you, Sarah's position on this is gonna be different from my position on this. What's your position? 10 minutes. What is the chance that this person is gonna be somebody who can like really have a wonderful, meaningful partnership with if they're 10 minutes late to

their first date and they don't text to explain why they're 10 minutes late. Right, right. If zero percent. Yeah. If you text, that's one thing. I'm still, as you know, still not enough. No. Well, it depends on how important promptness is to you.

Yeah. So, is that, is that going to be a deal breaker in your relationship? For John, it is. If every time I go out to dinner with somebody, every time I meet somebody for dinner, I have to spend 15 minutes like at the bar staring into the abyss, yes, that is going to be a deal breaker for me. If that's like the nature, yeah, like feeling rising anxiety, wondering if this person is like, you know, died in a subway accident or something. Yeah, like feeling rising anxiety wondering if this person is like, you know, died in a subway accident or something. Yes, yes. Of course, that would be a deal breaker for me.

Right. Right. I'd probably give it 15. I don't know. To me, to me, if they haven't, if they're 10 minutes late and they haven't texted to explain, because on a date, I don't know how dating apps work, but I assume you can send a message, right? And be like, hey, I'm 10 minutes late. On my way, sorry, understand if you need to go. Yeah. Yeah. I apologize. Yeah.

And yeah, to me, 10 minutes more to go. And it also, I mean, I would start thinking, like, oh, if I'm okay with them being that late, I'm communicating to them that like, I'm a, I don't know. You would start thinking that. I would. I would be like, this is disrespectful. Right, right, right. I don't appreciate that.

I'd like to remain in control. And so I'm leaving because that is something I can control. Yeah. And then I, That's a lot of self-awareness. Yeah. Yeah. I like that.

I like that. I like that. I like that. I like that. I like that. I like that. I like that. I like that.

I like that. I want to be that self-aware. So I probably, I maybe, I try to enjoy the time as if I was there on my own, maybe, and like, okay, I'm going to have a drink. I'm going to, I'm going to sit here. I'm going to text a friend. I'm going to write a. I'm gonna sit here. I'm gonna text a friend. I'm gonna write a canton about my problem.

I have a glass of ice tea. I'd probably do exactly what you did. Yeah. But I really wanna know what happened. Well, I think I know what happened. I think I know what happened. I think they probably got some. And you know what, K, you are okay.

Yeah, you are, that person. What do they know? They're the kind of loss. They're the kind of person who doesn't show up for dates that they themselves help schedule. I think it's on them. It's on them. Got nothing to do with you. Okay. You're great. All right. This question comes from Elana who writes, dear John and Hank, why is it that when I pack my suitcase to go somewhere and I pack all my folded clothes in, they fit perfectly? But if I want to just toss my dirty clothes in there at the end of the trip, they don't fit unless I fold them. Aren't they the same sizes when I put them in there before going bananas, Alana?

Wait, probably going bananas, Alana. Yes, yeah. Yeah, so, well, this is a good question, but I think Hank would probably answer. Well, there's like a science answer. There's a science answer. But there's like a functional reason, right? But because air. Because air. I think that is actually both the science reason and the functional reason.

Yeah. Because Sarah taught me when we first started dating, the most efficient way to pack is actually to roll your clothes up. Yeah, I don't always do that. And now you don't, but you did back then, and I still always do it because it's so effective. Like I guess your clothes are a little more wrinkly,

which is the kind of not- It depends on how you roll up. I'm not a guy, as you know Sarah, I'm not the best roller of packing technique. I got a new technique. What do we do now? Well, I roll the things like exercise clothes, a t-shirt, it's pajamas, things like that. But then I have my section for the flat fold for nicer stuff. It needs to stay to minimize the criss, the wrinkles that we call that a crease. A crease.

That's what I was looking for. So no cut special. A crease has been very much of our lives during COVID. What's a crease? It's a very, never spent a lot of time thinking about creases. Yeah. Anyway, yeah, I think you can, I don't know. I've seen John plenty of times through a while.

He's dirty stuff in the suitcase and it all fits in. You know what, if you want to do that, you have to leave extra space. Yeah, well, or you have to really, because it is there. Sit on it. You've got to get rid of the air. If you sit on it for long enough. Not with your toilet sheets in there. Great advice. Really key. Yeah. So do not sit on it with a gallon

of milk inside of it. Well, also don't pack a gallon of milk, but like, you know, I love that idea. Yeah. I'm like the bag goes through security. And they're like, you can't have liquids more than 3.4 ounces, but also why did you why are you bringing a gallon of milk? Yeah, maybe you need a gallon of milk. Maybe you're maybe you're really into getting swole and like you you use a lot of milk. I tried to use John. John first and I use a lot of milk. You know what you do with it.

Yeah, it is weird that we drink the milk of another mammal. Oh gosh. And I know something that you can never get past. I can't get past it. The drinking milk of a mammal. But somebody said that to me in high school, thinking it was very profound. And then I've proceeded to hear like thousands of people make those arguments. Oh, okay.

All right. Here's another question. Let's move on. Here's another question for you from Ray. Who writes, dear John and Hank, how do I find people who want what I make? This is a deep, deep lifelong question, Ray. And I, from your question, I think you're like 12.

So it's amazing that you're, or maybe 16, regardless. Because they identify themselves as a kid. My art is not accepted amongst other calligraphers because I'm a kid, but my calligraphy isn't accepted in my fandoms because they don't want calligraphy. But the only type of art I can do is calligraphy. Calligraphy and characters, right. So the question, how do I find people who want what I make is a lifelong question for artists. Yeah, right?

Yeah. Like that's one of the central questions. How do I connect? What I, you know, the kind of the voice I want to share or the feeling I want to share with somebody who wants to receive it. Right. And I don't have an easy answer for that question

because I still to receive it. Right. And I don't have an easy answer for that question because I still struggle with it. Well, I feel like I want to question your statement that the only type of art I can do is calligraphy. The only type of art you currently feel comfortable with is calligraphy. And if you want to make calligraphy great, and art is about making stuff for other people, but it's also about your own expression and what you want to do and make.

So, you know, it's a balance as John was saying, but I also think like, if you love making calligraphy, there is a lot of exploration you can do within that. Like what is the next turn in calligraphy? Like what can you do that's like a half step between calligraphy and things that are made that people in other fandoms like? Like what if you thought, oh, I'm gonna do this really amazing badass calligraphy of,

I don't know, Dungeons and Dragons or something. Yeah, let's imagine what the fandom might be, like what if it's BTS, like what if it's a... What if you made this amazing callographic BTS decal? That was like kind of interesting Because it was this mashup between styles maybe the calligraphy even the way that it's written starts to outline Some of the faces or something or right or some icon BTS image. I also have another idea Okay, I think that's a great idea.

How do you take what you can already do and move it a half step toward something else? Yeah. So my first thought was with calligraphy especially, and I agree Sarah, Ray, you can do lots of other kinds of art. It's just the place where you feel comfortable now as calligraphy. But with calligraphy especially,

so much of it is, or so much of what I love about calligraphy on the internet a lot of times, is when there is a real dissonance between the beauty of the calligraphy and what is being written. This is the same way I feel about needle point, like Amy Cross-Rose and Thal had this throw pillow

that was needle pointed, and the needle point said, I hated every second of this. Yeah, yeah. And I just thought that was so brilliant. There's a lot of potential there of being very self-aware about about the confines of traditional calligraphy. I also think that you could collaborate with other people, right? you could collaborate with other people, right? Like maybe you start something, make something with calligraphy and invite another artist you like to change it, to draw around it on top of it.

Or vice versa, what if you found some other person's artwork you really liked and then played with it and added your own calligraphy to it. Right, but I also think there's real value to just making. Like I think that there is value to making and expressing yourself. And I think that is a large part of how we get better at making stuff.

Yeah. And so as you make calligraphy, you will find yourself getting better at it. And also there will be the sort of ancillary benefit of finding, you know, getting closer and closer and finding more and more about how you want to express yourself in the world. And that's part of the joy of being a younger person is that you don't necessarily need to share it far and wide and that you can do all sorts of crazy things on your own without the pressure of being judged by other people.

So, and you can sort of have time to develop artistically before you kind of come out to the world. Right, absolutely. Which reminds me actually that today's podcast is brought to you by Ray's calligraphy. Ray's calligraphy, it's great and it's only going to get better. It's Europe, Sarah. That's great.

I'm up for work. You got to say additionally today's podcast is brought to you and then some other. Oh, man, I wasn't prepared for this. I welcome this is what today's episode of Dear John and Sarah is also brought to you by Wordal. Wordal. One small thing you can solve in a day. Sometimes the only thing you can solve in a day.

And of course, today's podcast is brought to you by that professor who just ate the salad. The professor who just ate the salad. The professor who just ate the salad, just eating the salad in the front row, being a famous professor. Yeah. And I think we could have Ray create a calligraphy statement that says, eat your salad loud.

Oh, no, that sounds, it sounds like yeah. It's a no-cut special. It's a no-cut special. It's too late. I can't take it back. Let's just move on quickly. We also have a project for all some messages to read from Miranda Haidok from NYC to Emily. Happy anniversary, my love. Thank you for three beautiful years. You make me braver and better than I ever thought I could be sharing third things like this podcast or Star Wars or Manhole the Squirrel with you makes the world feel a bit more bearable. You're my favorite human and I will always be here to kill the bugs and wash the dishes. Oh, that's very, very sweet. That's so lovely. That's with another project for Austin Perkus, people buy basically advertising space on this podcast

to tell people they love that they love them or to share any message that they want with the world. So thank you so much for donating to the project for Austin and also for apparently naming a squirrel manhole after a joke in this podcast from years and years ago. Lovely. Yeah, you know, so that makes me so happy.

Like when people name their squirrels Alaska or something, that makes me happy. Yeah. All right, Tara, I think we have one time for one more question before we get to the all-important news from Marginan. So I read it. Sure, how about this one from Shelby?

Dear John and Sarah, I really like video games. I love the art and the storytelling and the music and the fact that my hands are occupied. It's like a movie, but I get to do stuff. Unfortunately, I've never been very good at them. I didn't play many as a kid and as such, I don't have the skills. A lot of game fans do.

I like playing on easier beginner modes so that I can actually progress through the story, but I can't get over the feeling that I am cheating. I know these modes are specifically designed for people more interested in stories like myself than the gameplay itself, but I still feel guilty. How can I get over this feeling of being a fake gamer and just enjoy it

coming around the mountain, Shelby? Well, a few things. First off, I don't know if this is the same Shelby who makes the, who is a video game journalist and makes girlfriend reviews, probably not, but that is one of my favorite YouTube channels. So in case it is, high Shelby. And if it isn't, still high Shelby.

So I love video games too, and I am also terrible at them. I'm terrible at them for other reasons, like I'm mostly terrible at them. I'm terrible at them for other reasons. Like I'm mostly terrible at them because I have this spatial intelligence deficit that makes it really difficult for me to know where I am in space, which is a big disadvantage when you're playing a video game and you don't know.

Like when I play video games with Henry, he's always like, dad, it's to the left. It's to the left. It's to the, it's behind you. It's still behind you. And I can never remember that stuff, so that's hard for me. And so I always play on beginner mode. And the video game I love the most in the world,

even though it's a stupid terrible video game, is the FIFA series where I just get to play soccer. And I still, I've been playing that game for 11 years, Shelby. And I still play on semi-professional mode. Because if I go up to professional, it's just too hard. I don't enjoy it as much. I get stressed out and forget what buttons do what and all those feelings.

And I want to avoid those feelings. So my feeling about it is that, you know, there are different, like, the wonderful thing about video games is that you can play them in different ways. And you can even play them in ways that the developers didn't necessarily intend, but can still be really beautiful.

Like, like the Fortnite pacifist. You can play Fortnite as a pacifist. I remember doing this as a kid with my brother where we would play this NASCAR game, but we would run the cars backwards and get up to 180 miles an hour so we could see a 360 mile an hour crash head on crash. And like, obviously, that's not something that the game developers designed the game to do but it was really fun for us and so remembering that you are the co-creator of this game and that the developers of it the people who made the video game

want you need you to co-create the game with you right I think is really important because that's the moment where you can be like, oh, and so I get to do it however I want. Right. And also, there are so many different kinds of video games, but there's also a lot of video games that haven't been made yet. And I also think you're voicing a feeling that tells me that there is a lot more

that video games can be or do. And, you know, so I think, first of all, it's just about your mindset, right? Like, you're not playing this, I'm assuming you're not, you're not doing this in public or like with a lot of friends who are giving you a hard time. This is just something that you're doing. Yeah, and I think a lot of it comes from this feeling of like, well, the professional gamers,

and you know, it's a big world ball of professional gamers. They're really good at video games, both the people who are in tournaments and a lot of the people who stream on Twitch are really, really good at whatever game they're playing. But that's not the only way even to stream on Twitch and have an audience. Like you can be like I was living evidence for many years that you could have a YouTube series where you play video games and you're terrible. Like I you know, I just keep John up at night. The ANC Wimbledon sponsorship was funded for like the first three or four years entirely sponsorship was funded for like the first three or four years entirely by me being really bad at FIFA, but pretty good at telling stories.

And so I nobody watched for the FIFA, but they watched for the story. And I think that, you know, reminding yourself that you may not be good at the video game in the narrow way that certain people define good, but you can still be really good at the video game in the sense of being a Good collaborator with the developers. Right, and you you could also if you wanted to do some little experiments to try to free up your mind a little bit Mm-hmm about the process like like what if you you know like the fortnight pacifist or whatever you're playing like What if you run the you know only run the wrong pacifist or whatever you're playing, like what if you run the,

you know, only run the wrong way or do the wrong thing, you know, the so-and-so-so-called wrong thing. Or I don't know, I'm not much of a gamer or in my much of, I mean, not. But I respect video games in general. And I just think maybe you just need to do some exercises that make you realize and understand more deeply that it's just a platform to do whatever you want. And actually, maybe you wouldn't even impress the developers by what's the weirdest, most nonsensical thing you could do in a given scenario?

Yeah, well one of the things about video games now is that sometimes you can get trophies, like the developers do see it coming and you can get trophies for doing very unexpected things, which I think is kind of lovely and cool. But anyway, we wish you all the fun in the world playing games. Yes, enjoy it. And you're not a fake gamer. Nobody is. Except maybe Sarah. Fair enough.

Well, Sarah, it's time for the all-important news from Mars and AFC Wimbleden. I'm not sure how much Mars news we have realistically. I think we might have. Don't have. I don't have. I don't have any Mars news. I do have some news from AFC Wimbleden, however, which is that yesterday, as we are recording, this AFC Wimbleton played Gillingham or Gillingham.

One of the ongoing longest term debates in the United Kingdom, and which has been a nation for over a thousand years, is that nobody on Earth knows how to pronounce Gillingham. I don't know if you know that. Even the people in. Even the players. Indeed. I've made this fact up, but it seems to have convinced you. Great. Sure. So nobody knows the jilling ham or gilling ham situation. What we do know, not win because we have not won a game in the league in months plural. So we tied Nail Mill, which would be fine except that Gillingham or Gillingham is one of the only four teams worse than us. And so we really needed to win that game. AFC will then

currently sit in 20th place, one spot above the relegation zone. So once again, on the edge of, you know, relegation, like we are every season, it's super frustrating. May it turn around soon. That's great. So I wasn't listening. I wasn't. She was looking something up. I was trying to figure out something Mars related to share with you. Great.

And I like what you found. Okay. So I can't tell you anything strictly educational or useful, but I found this poem by Win Cooper, Mars Poetica. And I've never read it before. I'm excited. I'm just going to share it right now. Imagine you're on Mars looking at Earth, a swirl of colors in the distance. Tell us what you miss most or least. Let your feelings rise to the surface, skim that surface with a tiny net. Now you're getting the hang of it.

Tell us your story slant-wise, street-wise, in the disguise of an astronaut in his suit. Tell us something we didn't know before. How words mean things we didn't know we knew. I love that last line. Words mean things we didn't know we knew. That's very nice. That's lovely. Well, Sarah, thank you for potting with me.

Thanks to everybody for listening. This podcast is edited by Joseph Tuneum, Ed. It's produced by Rosiana Halls-Rohas. The music that you're hearing now and at the beginning of the podcast is by the great Gunn'Rola. Our social media communicator is Julia Bloom and as they say in our hometown, don't forget to be awesome.