Dear Hank & John - 327: One Drop of the Dirtiest Water (w/ Sarah Urist Green!)

Episode Date: April 11, 2022

How are art eras named? How do I feel about a somewhat small accomplishment? How do move on from gnomes? Do you like Latin? John Green and Sarah Urist Green have answers!If you're in need of dubious advice, email us at [e-mail] us for monthly livestreams and an exclusive weekly podcast at patreon.com/dearhankandjohn.Follow us on Twitter! twitter.com/dearhankandjohn

Hello and welcome to Dear Hank and John. Or as we're calling it this week, Dear John and Sarah. It's about guess where two brothers, or in this case, two married people, give you advice, answer your questions, and provide you with all the week's news from both AFC Wimbledon and let's be realistic, probably not Mars. I am joined by my lovely spouse, Sarah Eurost Green. Hello Sarah. Hello John.

How are you? I'm great. How are you? I'm tired and I feel like I'm getting a lot of flack for being tired over the last 24 hours. We have a significant amount of jet lag. And I am the only person in the family who is feeling it, but it is still real.

You are quite dramatic about it. I am the only person in the family who is feeling it, but it is still real. You are quite dramatic about it. I am really tired. Well, I told you that I have a relationship change with jet lag. Ever since I became a mother and had to experience the many, many months of sleep deprivation that comes with being a new mother. Oh, there's a lot of sleep deprivation you never mentioned that.

I was super whiny then for good reason, I believe. Yeah. But ever since then, jet lag is sort of like funny to me. Because it's such a minor problem. Well, and you adjust. It's real. It's just that it ends. Right. You you adjust. It's real. It's just that it ends. Right. You do adjust. I think the issue for me is that I had not

meaningfully changed time zones in two and a half years. Mm-hmm. Okay. And then I did. All right. And I think my 44-year-old body is having a difficult time with it. So listen, we just had a 30-hour travel adventure. We did. And it was not that fun. I watched some new movies. But we have a strict policy in our family of never complaining about bad travel experiences because the only thing more boring than other people's dreams is other people's travel problems. That's right. And also, it was such a joy to travel that it was worth it. It was. That's a great point. There's a couple things I want to bring up before we answer some questions.

Okay. First and most importantly, Hank and I have not made an episode of Dear Hank and John together in I don't know how long, and it was occurring to me recently that it could be that we're like hiding a feud, that he and I are like having a huge argument. Like you had a falling out. Yes. And everything is collapsing like a sort of brotherly divorce. That doesn't seem very likely though.

Well, but like that's what wouldn't this be how we would handle it? Like, oh, Hank's doing an episode with Roman Mars. I'm doing an episode with Sarah. Like, we're not collaborating. I miss the most recent New Hank and John Patreon live stream because of Jetlag. Now, did you think of this theory or do somebody else? No, I just thought of it this morning.

I was like, what if people are worried that Hank and I had a huge falling out? Well, let's ease everyone's minds. They're fine. Yeah, we're just busy. Just like any people in a relationship, sometimes they need some time apart. Whoa! What?

Is that because of everything? And the whole tone of this thing is shifted? Big time. I was seriously talking about other people, not us. Because you know, that's what this podcast is about other people's problems. Right. That's true. I'm just saying that Hagenire getting along great. And as far as I knew, you and I were getting along great until 52nd. We are. We are all as hell in the House of Green.

Sarah, the other thing I wanted to talk to you about was I would like to propose that we do a podcast, the way that Hank and Catherine have to meet this. I have two concepts. Okay, I thought we already had a hit podcast. We do have a hit podcast. That's a great point. What's it called? It's called Like Letters. And what's it about?

Well, we only really sit once a year. That is the big problem with our hit podcast. And it's a perk for donating to the project for awesome. And it's when we read our early email correspondence to each other and laugh and cringe and talk about it. That's right. Now, one of my proposals is in fact to make like letters a more regular podcast. So that instead of coming out once a year, it perhaps comes out once a quarter. Hmm. What's your other idea? You don't like that one? I'll consider it. My other idea is we make a podcast about visual art that you can't see as the podcast listener.

Right. Well, that's the nature of the game, except you could go look at it online. Right. You could, but I kind of like the idea of talking about a work of art without being able to see it. Like, it's just a different kind of engagement. Right, right. Or like, we could describe it. Yeah, or try to describe it. Right. Like, you want to try it. Right now. Yeah.

Okay. What's the best work of art you've seen in person recently? That's not in our house, those don't count. I mean, I'm looking at a really good painting right now, but it's in the house. Okay, I saw this amazing installation by Shu Bing. Yeah. Trash in the back.

Trash in the back. It had trapped in the back. Trash in the back. Beautiful landscape in the front. Yeah. And it was basically a giant light box. Yeah. That from the beginning of the room, you you walk in and you see what looks

sort of like a traditional Chinese landscape painting. But then you realize it's a light box and then you walk around back of it and you see that it's actually a bunch of trash. Yeah, like bubble wrap and plastic bags. Please, little funds that have been placed right up against the light box to become some of the trees and the landscape painting. And it was just both beautiful and also thought provoking. And I spent a long time with it. And I was just reminded of how much in-person art experience

matters. Yeah, well, because when you walk up to it, you think you're looking at one very specific kind of work, like a traditional landscape painting, and then you walk around the back of it, and you're like, oh wow, this is something completely different. This was made out of largely out of trash and discarded items. That's right.

And I think, especially now, art has to make an argument for its physical existence. Right. You know, like that is an experience that even in VR wouldn't be that good. Right. You know, you got to be able to sense light changes. You got to be able to see depth. Right. And, um, and like feel what it's like to walk around the room. Yeah. You got to be able to sense light changes. Yeah. You got to be able to see depth. Right. And like feel what it's like to walk around the room and see something from different angles. Yes, I realize it's sort of VR, but it's just not the same.

It's not. It's very hard to make that token non-fungible. Right. Yeah. I also loved that work. That was one of the highlights of our entire vacation actually was getting to see that one piece of art and the just complete surprise of walking around the back

of it and seeing that it was made out of like bubble wrap and discarded blue plastic bags from Walmart or whatever. Yes, so Bravo, Shoe Bing. Good work. That's our podcast. It's called... We're going to call it, for the time being untitled. Oh, but it has to be untitled with those brackets. Untitled podcasts.

I bet I'm sure that exists. Oh, you know what was the best work of art I saw recently? What? Sorry, we will get to questions from our listeners. The best work of art I saw recently wasn't a work of art I saw recently. What? Sorry, we will get to questions from our listeners. The best work of art I saw recently wasn't a work of art. It was a wall label. Okay. And instead of saying what wall labels always say about artists in, you know, but instead

of saying what wall labels always say about artists in ancient Egypt or in Africa or in the Islamic world or whatever, it always says anonymous or artist unknown or artist unknown. And what this wall label said was artist once known right to emphasize the fact that it was a kind of failure of the way that we imagined history. Or record history. Recorded history. Or a failure of the way such an object came to be part of its current collection. Absolutely. Perhaps it was stolen. Right.

Right. And so it would be inconvenient to know the artist's name because then there would be a set of obligations to that artist that you don't have if you say it's just anonymous or unknown. So I thought that was really interesting. Yes, that was lovely. How about we get to some other people's questions? It's a good idea, but I wanna go a little further into this art podcast.

What are we gonna call it? Let me, let me mull it over while we answer questions. This first question comes from Liz, who writes, Dear John and Hank, how are art eras named? Like art that was made in recent times is usually referred to as contemporary or modern? Oh, oh, Liz, you have just opened a whole can of words. Oh, well, let's complete the question. Both of which just boiled down to mean current.

Wasn't all art and music contemporary when it was made? When will our current era stop being contemporary? And most importantly, in the distant future, what will historians call the era where in now, landscapes and light motifs lives? This is a great question. Great question. And I think we can get into some terminology in a little more detail in a little bit. But I'd like to actually answer the question first. Which is that yes, all art was once contemporary. All art was once new, and not all movements have been named while they exist.

A lot of history, I mean, and not just art history, but history, history happens in retrospect. We don't notice trends, we don't realize an era until it's over or perhaps long over. And, you know, when you study art history and you think about so-called contemporary art, which for museums is often like 1960s to today, but not always, sometimes it's newer. Because the 1960s have kind of solidified somewhat

into types. And different minimalism. Right, but so, you know, contemporary art, I generally think of as art being made like in the recent past and you define recent. But since the 1960s, there hasn't been very clear movements. And some movements are movements because a group of artists came together

and was like, we are data. We are dataists and we are a finite group. But that doesn't really happen now. You don't really see artists getting together and being like, we are going to do this one thing and we are all going to go in this one direction. So it's not. Sometimes you see artists all going in one direction like Harry. I knew I knew I knew that was coming. They couldn't do it forever. So that's a great point, you know, eventually. So it's history that decides.

They have to go in five directions. It's actually you as part of that history making, because if you go out and see a bunch of art and you write a tweet, or let's say, or make a TikTok, that's like, hey, you know, I went to see all the art in New York City today and I've decided that this is the movement that is happening. This is the prevailing trend amongst all of this wild and crazy art that I saw and then you name it. You know, like maybe it's the banana movement or whatever and like, and if enough people get behind you

and was like, this is the bananas movement, then it might be recorded as such eventually. But it's different. Sometimes, if you think about a lot of the Arthur's popular say in the 1990s, a lot of it now, we think of as being about identity politics. But that wasn't something that sort of happened all of a sudden. Right. It was something that began to be happened and began to be noticed and then like later bang, that's what the 90s was.

Yeah, this is very similar to the way that we talk about errors in history or the way that we talk about generations, right? Like how do generations get names and get defined is actually really often quite complicated and it involves a lot of guesswork, you know, like I always thought that Hank was Gen X but it turns out he's elder millennial. Not because Hank changed but because it's sort of our understanding of generation change. I actually think Hank, I am like Hank is is just, we're about the same age. Yeah, you're like six months apart. We're like six months apart, but.

But I think I'm, I'm Gen X. Yeah. I'm like baby Gen X. Yeah. And he, he's elder millennial. Yeah, but that's mostly. I'm on the cusp. I would argue, I would argue that's mostly because of your vibes.

Like I would argue that if Hank had your personality, he would be elder Gen X. I mean, baby Gen X. And if you had Hank's personality, you would be elder millennial. I actually don't be- I'm trying not to be insulted here. It's good.

I think I, I'm super glad I didn't marry a millennial. Aren't you? Nothing against all the millennial listeners out there. You seem lovely. Yeah, so I think Liz, Gee, John, wait, Haley, 80% of your audience. Yeah, good job. So Liz, the only other thing that I will add is that the term modern when it comes to art,

like you are definitely using it correctly because anything modern, as we know, is fresh and new. But when you say modern art, that actually refers to a specific span of time that aligns with the modernization of cities, industrialization, the industrial, let's say 1850 to 1950. Okay, like that's a long span of time. Yeah. But as cities changed, as like culture moved from being more rural to urban, more artists were gathering in cities, art changed a lot while cities changed a lot. And so like in general, we went from say like more academic realistic style painting to crazy art, more abstract art, trying new materials. So like that, there is a, an era called modernism in art and different countries, different parts

of the world had different modernisms, had like modern art in different places. But so when modern art is used, that's what it means. Something you didn't want to know, sorry. But that is really, I think that's really important because a lot of people say modern art is a way of saying contemporary art and there is a distinction. Or abstract art.

Right, and there is a distinction. Modernism was not just an artistic phenomenon. It was a really broad historical phenomenon. I mean, the example of it that I always use is that in 1800, globally, over 95% of people lived on farms and in 1950, globally, fewer than 50% did. And that shift was really dramatic because the industrial revolution radically reshaped the human story. Right. So of course it changed our art. Yeah. Like the Colombian exchange did before it, like the agricultural revolution, which

wasn't really like an event, but that also changed things. And so these big seismic shifts in the way humans organize themselves are always reflected in our artistic traditions. And also when you say modern art, we all know what you mean. So even if you're not referring to that time period of art, most people know anyway. You know my favorite historical example of this sound? What? The way that I think about it is that in 1914 we thought that we were in a period called the Great War. Right. And then later we realized that we were in a period called World War One. And right now a lot of people are talking about World War III, which I think is very presumptuous. First off, I hope we can avoid any kind of World War III. But secondly, I'm not entirely confident that there is some kind of like globally involved

conflict that it will be called or known as World War III. We don't know. We don't get to name that stuff. Somebody does. Yeah, but it gets almost always gets named after us, because as Stan Muller likes to say, when you're living in the middle of history, you simply do not know what it means.

Right. There you go, Liz. All right. We have another question. Sorry, this one's from Griffin who writes, Dear John and Hank, I'm a creative writing student. And I was recently published

in the local library's literary art scene. It's a lovely project that they've put together, but I can't help but feel that I either don't deserve it, or that it's such a small accomplishment that I shouldn't even care about it. How should I feel about this? Obviously, I shouldn't feel like it's meaningless, otherwise why did I submit the piece in the first place, but I can't help but feel that it's stupid.

I haven't told anyone except for a few other students, because I don't know how to feel, a shame to sharing my work perhaps? How do I get past this melon collie? Wish I had teenage angst to blame these feelings on Griffin. Oh, Griffin. I remember this feeling. I mean, I still get this feeling to an extent, but I don't know.

I read this question and I was like, I wanna talk to Sarah about this because I don't know if you get this feeling, but can I describe it to you? Sure, I mean, I think Griffin has, but let's hear it. Let's hear another angle. Here's my experience of it. Like, I remember the first time I was on NPR, like nationally.

I'd written this one minute, 42nd-long commentary. This was after years and years of writing for the Chicago-based NPR station. Only people in Chicago would hear that. This was a national thing. It was a really, really big people in Chicago would hear that. This was a national thing. It was a really, really big deal. Big deal to me. But I also at this feeling the first time I was published in book lists, the first time I had experiences like Gryffinds having here where I published something, I would have this feeling where I would be really excited about it and really proud that it got

included or that it got chosen or whatever. And then it would air or get published. And like within 15 seconds, I would feel this, what Griffin describes as a melancholy. I would feel like, oh, well, that was disappointing. That's not very good. That's not a big deal. Right. Doesn't really change anything.

And I remember after that first NPR commentary, I just sat in my chair in my basement and I was like, well, I mean, I made $40. Well, I mean, so what I think is interesting here is like, I'm feeling this impulse to minimize accomplishments, which I think is very natural. You know, like I think we maybe internally proud of something, but when someone else brings it up, all of a sudden you hear, you hear it through their voice and all of a sudden you feel stupid. Right.

Or like it's really small. This definitely happens to me. Oh, yeah. And I think it can be hard to have someone else know about something. It's a vulnerability feeling proud. I think. Yeah. It's like that. If it brothers song, I want to have primed like my mom ahead and not like the kind of the Bible that turns you bad. Right. Like how do you, how do you straddle that feeling of accomplishment without making it pompous or being braggie?

But I don't know that that impulse to minimize is about not wanting to be braggie. I think it's about feeling really insecure because it is a moment of vulnerability. Like being proud of an accomplishment or being happy that you did something is a real moment of vulnerability because you know someone can come along at any moment and say it's not that big of a deal. People graduate from college all the time, all kinds of people get published in your library,

it's literary, it's in, every accomplishment can be minimized like that. And so maybe it's that, maybe it's that like self-protective feeling of like, well, I know that there are people who might easily undermine this or it might easily point out that it wasn't that difficult. To me, the real judge of it is, was it difficult for you? And did you, I mean, I,

so like, I'm not even difficult, but like, is it meaningful for you? Is it meaningful for you? That's much better. It doesn't have to be difficult. I don't think for it to be meaningful. Right. But what Griffin did was both difficult and meaningful.

It's difficult to submit your work for publication, scary. There's a huge, not just a huge chance of rejection. There's the very likelihood of rejection. And also it was meaningful. Right. Something that they wrote that they care about. So like, to me, that is an inherently vulnerable thing. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But this also reminds me of like, you and I over the years, like when we've had small accomplishments or large, we've tried to celebrate them.

Yes. And it is easier to do it together, I feel. So like, when John and I were earlier in our careers and like something seemingly little would happen, we would buy a bottle of champagne, you know, like our favorite 99 fresh and a brute, you know, which I really recommend. This is not a plug. No, it's a really, it's not sponsored.

This is really good. If they do want to, if fresh and a one of the sponsors, yeah, I want zero dollars and all the champagne. Yeah. I guess you can't call it champagne because it's definitely not from Sean Bond. Yeah, I think it's technically coava, but it is very good. Anyway, but actually we got to a point where we were like, I think we're celebrating too many things. Yeah, yeah.

Especially as your star continued to rise. But we still think it's important to do. And like when thought I had while you were explaining your predicament, Griffin, is like, you know, you might even, maybe you can't now, but like with this Zene, for example, like what if you had hosted a gathering for everyone who was in the Zene?

You know? And like- The libraries should have done that. But yeah, or host a gathering. But even if you said, you sent out a message to everybody, I know this scene comes out, every whatever.

Let's gather to break bread, share a drink, to celebrate it. And that way, everybody's on the same plane. And that might be fun. I think that's a great idea. Finding ways to celebrate even accomplishments that might feel small to you is a really, for us anyway, in our lives, we've experienced this, that that's a way to get past that urge

to minimize the accomplishment. That's exactly what I was going to say too, is the reason that those, the reason that I felt this like really profound sadness after, you know, my first book came out after the first NPR times, all that stuff, was because I was just alone and I wasn't celebrating it. I was just alone and I wasn't celebrating it. I was just kind of ruminating on how it wasn't that big of a deal.

Right. Well, I do think that there's a way to acknowledge or celebrate accomplishments on your own as well. I mean, like something that you and I have started to do in the past like five years is right sort of two letters to ourselves at the end of a year for the first one is about kind of making a summary of things that happened in the year past and then make another letter that's sort of about what what you want for the year ahead. And for me, it's always a great thing to be like, you know, okay, maybe there

were five or six small, quote unquote, stupid things that like on their own, I wanted to minimize, but when I looked at them together, it's suddenly, it's a life, you know, it's a career. It's something to be proud of. I'm doing work and I'm, yeah, participating in the world and taking care of a family and it's an additive process. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So keep at it, Griffin. Keep at it and we hope you can find a way to celebrate this very real accomplishment because it is real.

Yes. This next question comes from Abby, Sarah, who raised your John and Hank when I was in high school like 10 years ago, this is maybe the best question we've ever received. I have an issue like this too. I think you might. I'm excited. When I was in high school like 10 years ago, I had to come up with a sculpture theme for my art final. And I panicked. And I chose gnomes.

Yes. That's great. It became a running joke. And now, my family and friends won't stop giving me gnomes. I think it's time to move on from this collection. What do I do with 50 gnommes? And how do I stop acquiring new nomes? Do I just commit to the bit for the rest of my life? Where do I know from here?

Abby? Abby, this is really just a wonderful question. And I thank you for putting it out into the universe. It's like when you're like say 14 and you're an extremely toxic presence in your parents' lives. And one day I'm not speaking from experience. One day your mom makes you spaghetti and you're like, mom, this is really good spaghetti. And that's the only nice thing she's heard you say in like 18 months.

And so thereafter she concludes that spaghetti is your favorite food, even though as it happens, you don't actually like spaghetti, you were just in a good mood that day. Right. And you get fed spaghetti for like 30 years before finally you confess to your mother via a podcast that actually you've just never been that into spaghetti. Right. Right. This.

Yeah. I think, you know, I think we all have this to a certain extent. And if you've ever started collecting anything, I think the people in your life who love you and or give you things are always excited to learn of a thing you like. Oh, because it's so huge. It's like, oh, John loves pigs. I'm going to give him everything pig themed I can find. And even if you don't like it anymore. Yeah, because it solves the problem for the giftor. That's what this is really about.

The gnomes are not about you, Abby. They're about the people giving you gnomes. Because you know, it brings them so much joy. I know. To give, give you no's. It does. I think, and they're like, they see a gnome on vacation and they're like, this is perfect.

You know, Abby loves no's. Love no's. And then, and even, I think at this point, they probably know that you're not excited about no's anymore and that it's something you feel a little bit of embarrassment about, which almost makes it better for them, especially if it's like a sibling kind of relationship. Because even if you declare that gnomes are over, I don't think it's going to happen. I think it's just, I do think it's something

you're gonna have to live with for the rest of your life. But I think that it's something you can do something about. So here's what I think. I almost always think you should be your authentic self, especially with the people you love. But whatever authentic self is not wanting nomes anymore.

Because sometimes you should not be your authentic self, Sarah. Okay. And one of those times is when you are in a period of your life where you don't love the nomes, stay with me here for a second. Okay. Okay. I think the noem thing for Abby is going to be a sine wave.

I think there are going to be periods. Like now, where Abby is like, this is ridiculous. I never liked gnomes. I panicked once in high school and became a gnome person. Yes. But then I think there are also going to be periods where Abby is like, this is hilarious. Yes. I have one of the largest collections of gnomes in the world. Right. And I think that going through that side sign wave.

That sign wave occasionally means that you can't fully be your authentic self, but you're not, the only reason you're not being your full authentic self Abby is because you know there will be another peak where you are like just kidding. This is hilarious. I cannot believe that this happened to me. Okay, I agree. But I'd like to add something to this. Right. Abby, I think you can make it more your own, this collection. So, like, I think you can think about a clever way to display it. Not just sort of on a shelf, but maybe you find some sort of glass container or plexiglass

enclosure where you kind of stack them all in an interesting way, inspired by Iwayway, you could like dip them all in the same colored paint and make it like you've sort of reclaimed the gnomes. Yeah. More inspired by Iwayway, you could of reclaimed the gnomes. More inspired by Iwayway, you could photograph yourself dropping the gnomes from a great height. That's smashing the gnomes.

And then smashing the gnomes on the ground below you and just say to your family, listen, I love gnomes. I need them to keep coming because I'm making this art series. Make videos as the gnomes smashing. And then if they still give it to you, then you can smash some more.

Yeah. You can say, like, this doesn't mean I don't love gnome. It just means that I've decided that energy being neither created nor destroyed, I've decided to change the form of it. Right. The only other thing I could see is if you don't want to do something so dramatic, because if you can somehow state you're trying to find the world's smallest gnome. So at least it doesn't take up a lot of room.

Or I'm still really into gnomes guys, but I like to be less than one inch tall. That's my ideal gnome. Who can find the tiniest known? They're a microscopic known. Or you could try a replacement collection. You know, you could say like, I've graduated from... Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no something very small, you know. Oh, yeah, like I'm out of Nomes and I'm into E. coli. I I don't know something what what's something tiny. I like I was thinking like paper clips, but that's not fun. Like

What could it be? I think E. col.L.I. is a great solution. Just say to everybody, listen, I want one drop of the dirtiest water you can find when you're on vacation. Yeah. So anyway, I think Abby, this is really a wonderful... What a great prop. ...quandry. I think you're going to be fine no matter what, but I do want to see what you might do with your collection to kind of retake it and feel some ownership over it.

Yeah, yeah. But the main thing here, Abby, is that you have to keep collecting gnomes for the rest of your life. I'm not here to tell people how to live their lives except in this one case. Well, but it's sort of like, you know, you can only control the things you can control. Yeah. Like if you this is not something you can control. That's true. All right. The cat is out of the bag. The gnome is out of the bag. Sarah, I've just been reminded that we need to mention our sponsors. Today's podcast is of of course, brought to you by Abby's Nome Collection. Abby's Nome Collection. It's growing.

Yes, Abby, why didn't you include your address so I could send you a Nome? Today's podcast is also brought to you by Fresh and A. It's delicious, it's inexpensive, and it's perfect for celebrating all of your accomplishments small and large. Additionally, today's podcast is brought to you by Freshanet. I'm really trying to angle for a proper sponsorship here today. Freshanet. Freshanet.

Doesn't do good enough. You did great. Is Chris? It wins the blind champagne tasting test that we do, like, say, every other New Year's Eve. It wins every year. It beats Dom Perignon. It is the best bubbly available. Today's podcast is also brought to you by Modern Art.

It's not just fresh anew. It's actually a finite span of time in which art was created. Fresh anew is a really good idea for Fresh and A's new, bubbly sparkling canned wine brought to you by Sarah and John. Fresh and new. We sponsor you. Please, please sponsor us.

We also have a project for awesome message. It's from Antjon to Arthur Tyg and Alison Vyla. Dear Arthur and Alison, you are just a little bit too young to start listening to this podcast, but I know in no time at all you'll be singing about Anglerfish and Quarks, and counting down to the March launch, and then in a little bit longer, you might cry and laugh with Hazel Grace and ask your parents when they're taking you to Amsterdam, maybe even one day soon you'll cheer for AFC Wimbledon, though neither your mom's nor I will

know what to do with that since we are more like the athletes of the quiz bowl variety. I'm sorry that you were born in a world in which we let the 4.5 star Kuaio-Obird go extinct. I'm sorry you had to learn to walk and talk during such a decidedly one star plague. I'm sorry our collective efforts to decrease world suck never seem to be enough. I do know that you too will be okay though. Not just because of your inextinguishable capacity for wonder or because you'll be lucky enough to see the five star Haley's comet cross across the sky in 2061 or even because of the existence of people like the scientists of the Vavelov Institute who protected the seed potatoes to save people they did not know. It's all that but it's also that you both happen to have undeniably five star moms, and for that you are very lucky and you'll never walk alone. Please hug

your moms, Catherine and Nora, for me. I love them and you very, very much. All that's so sweet. Not so nice. Gosh, we should really let the people who donated to the Project Phrasam write the entire podcast. Answers, too. Yeah, I mean, they're much better than we are. All right, Sarah, before we get to the all important news from Mars and Anci Wimbledon, I do have one last question for you. It's from Darby who writes Dear John and Hank, it's currently 503 in this college dorm room in Texas.

And I've been listening to your podcasts between biochemistry lectures, and I'm wondering something. I know you all memorize a lot of quotes and song lyrics and keep lists to remember them, and I do as well, but I am particularly interested in Latin. Do you like to learn Latin phrases? One of my central mantras is Inventus Vita Luvitt. I'm really good at producing Latin You did take Latin. I'm known for I took Latin one three times. I took Latin one in ninth grade

I got a C- and I took Latin one in tenth grade and then I took Latin one in ninth grade, I got a C minus. And I took Latin one in tenth grade. And then I took Latin one in common. Okay, let's try. Let's give it your best shot, John. Inventus, vitamin uvitt, excluus, pair, artists, which translates to let us improve life through science in the art. I thought you would appreciate that. I find that both of you follow this notion beautifully. Glucogenesis is important for the brain apparently, Darby. Good job studying for biochemistry, Darby. I feel like Darby is going to be a little disappointed Hank's not answering this. Will Darby be disappointed that Hank's not answering this? Or will Darby be thrilled because two people who fell in love partly through Latin phrases are answering it.

Sure. So when John and I first started becoming friends and exchanging emails, I had this great book of Latin quotes called a Moa Massamot and more. Yeah. And I really found it helpful for figuring out emails, I'd off, you know, because it get immediate sounds for Tungus in a little silly now. It doesn't sound for Tungus. I think it's super cute. It would be pretentious. It gave you John the recipient, like a little something to look up. You know, you could figure it out. I think it started because we were talking about

how we both liked Rushmore. Yes. And there is a line in Rushmore where Max Fisher, the main character like saves the Latin program at the school. I save Latin. What did you ever do? What did you ever do?

Oh, but he has the glory. Sick transagloria, glory fades. That's like the, that's the line that he uses to try to woo this teacher. Yes. And sick transagloria is such a great, classic observation. There are so many though, like I have so many favorite Latin phrases. I did a whole advertisement for policy genius just on the Latin phrases that were on sundials.

Like, Momento Mori is the most famous one. Remember that you must have, but there's also ones that are like, it's later than you think. That's so good. Yep. Yep. And there's also the Neibastar de Corparatora Messer, which is actually, that's my Latin is also poor. Really good.

But it's don't let the bastards get you down. Yeah, that's a good one. Don't let the bastards get, that's like, that's like new Latin, you know, like, it's not pure. Yeah, but it's, it's almost better. There's also ours, Longa, Vita, Breva, Ard is long life is short. Yeah, although I, I have an issue with that one. You do.

Art is also short. I know. In the schemas. But it can last longer than life. Yeah, but using art as a way of grasping for immortality feels very... Very empty. Very empty. Very, very pass-aid.

It feels a little Picasso-y. Yeah. Something feels like late 19th early 20th century. Right. That's the vibe I get. My little heroic. Slightly-y. Yeah. Something feels like late 19th early 20th century. Right. That's the vibe I get. A little heroic, slightly patriarchal. Yeah.

I don't know why. Yeah. I'm a big fan of Natura known constrictor, which means nature is not saddened. Like when... Nature don't care. Yeah. Nature is good.

Nature doesn't care much. I think it does. That's... But that's another one that feels a little more 19th century than it feels now because I think nature cares a couple. Right now nature is like I do kind of wish you would make me less sad. Yeah. Oh, oh, and there's of course a more vinciot omnia lovequer's All, which is a little cheesy, yes, but I think what I like about it is the follow-up that comes after it, which is... At No Saddamas Emory, and so we show yield to love. Right, which is the much-lovelier part, I think. It's so lovely that it's written on the inside of both of our rings. Yes.

All right, Sarah. It's time for the all-important news from AFC Wimbledon. As you'll remember, Sarah, AFC Wimbledon have not won a game in April, but they also did not win a game in March or in February or in January. They are the only teams in the top. So painful. Four leagues of English football, not to have won a game in 2022. They finally, sadly, parted ways with beloved manager Mark Robinson. He's an amazing person. But they just can't keep you if you don't win, right?

Yeah. And it's really sad. I think it's really sad for him. It's really sad for the fans. Nobody's happy about it. And the players liked him, too, right? Yeah. And so it's just a sad situation.

I mean, it's just, so we're now down into 22nd place. We are four points away from safety in 20th place. And even though AFC Wimbledon have managed these sort of like miracle turnarounds year after year after year since being promoted from League Two, I have to say that this feels different. I feel like the pain that is felt at AFC Wimbledon's losing streak needs its own Latin phrase.

It does. It does. Perhaps some listeners can suggest one. Yeah. It's just, it's just been really hard. There are five games left in the season and it's hard to imagine how a team that has not won in 22 games is somehow going to win enough games of their final five to survive. I guess it's possible. But it's very hard to imagine. And so this is, it's really sad, man. I mean, I just don't see how we can survive this year. I know we've had these miraculous last day stay-ups for season after season, but this season it just looks different.

And even more devastatingly, while we're talking about devastations, is the fact that the franchise currently applying its trade in Milton Keynes is second in League 1 and very likely to be promoted up to the second tier of English football. The only upside of that is that we won't have to play them next year, which will be nice because it is awful having to play. Cold comfort. Yeah, so that's actually our next game. It is against the franchise current playing its trading, playing its trading motor keens

at Plow Lane. Uh-huh. The first time back in front of fans playing at Plow Lane against Milton Keynes, um, but they're in second. We still have hope. And we're in 20 seconds. So I don't- We'll always have hope.

Yeah, I mean, we never, we can never beat them because we- Too important. We have a heart. Yeah. You know, and so we have like a beating heart. This one? Yes, but they have none.

They have no heart. Maybe the phrase is something about a single beating heart. Um, one heart. How would we say that? I don't know. One heart. Zero wins. Got it.

That's right. I never, I never got to Latin too. I assume that's where you weren't that stuff. Yeah. That reminds me of this bus in the side of it in Portuguese, powered by the beating of 93 million Brazilian hearts. Wow. And I was like, that's too much pressure. You can't perform. I can't settle for me. That kind of pressure. Yeah, so Wimbledon, it's not good.

Mars, it is. Mars, I don't have anything to share. I'm afraid. Is there anything? It's still doing great. Mars is up to Mars stuff. Mars, don't care. Mars, don't care.

That's actually true. Not nature. It's true. Nature is not indifferent to our sorrows, but Mars truly is. Yes. But we got that there's something out there that doesn't really care how we're doing. Can we mess up Mars? Probably.

Yeah. Well, let's hope we don't. It is rumbling, currently rumbling, with mysterious Marsquakes that we have not previously understood. And there are also more Marsquakes than we understood. And the sort of like best gases that there is ongoing volcanic activity in Mars, which is interesting. In Mars, on Mars.

Well, like most of it's under the surface, so in. But I don't think prepositions are so inadequate to the problems that we face as a species. This is one of my high horses that I like to get on. But yeah, so we'll talk next week about Mars Quicks. Is Hank gonna be back? No. No?

No, I have one more week without Hank. Is it me? We'll find out next week. Thanks for making a problem with me, Sarah. Thanks for having me, John. And thanks to everybody for listening. You can send us your questions at Hank and John at gmail.com. This podcast is edited by the brilliant Joseph Tuna

Maddish. It's produced by Rosie on House Roll Haas. Our head of community and communications is Julia Bloom. Our editorial assistant is Deboki Chakravardi. The music you're hearing now in the beginning in the podcast is by the great Gunrola and as they say in our hometown. Don't forget to be awesome.