Dear Hank & John - 41: In the Absence of Toes

Episode Date: March 29, 2016

Have we checked in on the bees? What would happen if you lost your big toe? How do you stir hot cocoa efficiently? And more!

Hello, welcome to Dear Hank and John. Doors I for to think that Dear John and Hank. It's a comedy podcast about death. How are you doing, John? We've cut out all the other bits of the intro. Now we're just a comedy podcast about death. We're not even going to do Mars News or anything. We're doing the AMC Wimbledon News, whether you like it or not.

I'm doing all right. It should be added that Hank and I are in real life together right now. We are in Los Angeles for the annual meeting of dftba.com, our merch company. By the way, if you have merchandising needs, if you want, and oh my god, it's burning deer, Hank and John T-shirt, for instance. I thought you, if you have merchandising needs, like you need someone to merchandise, like build you a merch line, which we also do. Sure, yeah.

But in addition to that, if you need like shirts, pants, hats, posters, coffee mugs, D. F-T-B-A.com, don't forget to be awesome. D-F-T-B-A.com, your source for high quality merch, where you can brag about having excellent taste

in podcasts and other media. So we're having a great time hanging out together. I am doing well mostly. I have strep throat, which isn't ideal. It's not great. Yeah. The strep throat, I can't recommend in good faith. Also Gary Shandling just died. Yeah, and also like 30 other people. This has been a big death week. It's been a bad week for American celebrities.

And also Tarantan mayors. other people. This has been a big death week. It's been a bad week for American celebrities. And also Tarantan mayors. And Tarantan mayors, former mayor of Tarantor Rob Ford died, Andy Grove, the former CEO of Intel died. Five Dog, one of my all time favorite rappers, one of the absolute lyrical geniuses of hip hop in the 1990s. Five Dog, who wrote, I never need a statue to tell me how nice I am, who was part of a movement within hip hop to imagine a world without forebears because none of the forebears that they were told were theirs, felt like theirs.

Just an absolute genius, a member of Tribe Called Quest. That's a devastating loss. And then Gary Shanling, if you like modern family or the office or any show like it you owe all of that to Gary shandling and his groundbreaking show from the 1990s also just an incredibly generous funny man gone from this world at the age of 66. Dang! I guess this is a the age of 66. Uh, dang. I guess this is a comedy podcast about death.

None of that was very funny, but that is kind of the key to good comedy. Is the funny part? No, it is where it's not funny ever. Gary Shandling just toward the end of his life, he didn't know he was dying, he had a sudden heart attack, but he did an interview with Jerry Seinfeld. It occurred to me by the way, Hank,

that if I suddenly die, people will have lots of quotes about my death to throw back at me because it's been such a focus of my life. That's true, but you won't care. I might. There's no way of knowing for sure. Anyway, point being Gary Schandling and one of the last interviews he did with Jerry Seinfeld,

they did an episode of this great show, Comedians, Comedians and Cars getting coffee. Correct. And Gary Schandling said that it is funerally once a boxing referee who stands over his body and says, one, two, three, four, five, and then just waves his hands and calls it off and says he's not getting up. It's not getting the pretty sure. I just want, yeah, I mean, I want to make sure nobody's bearing me in a coffee and in the ground and I'm still alive. I do want yeah, I mean, I wanna make sure nobody's bearing me in a coffin in the ground and I'm still alive. I do want that person to be a referee.

That's key. There's nothing I want less in the world. And you know who knows for sure whether you're still breathing. A boxing referee. A licensed referee of boxing. That's the kind of expert that I want to attend to my death.

They are experts at least in knowing if someone is conscious or not i'm not so sure about uh... alive and dead i almost feel like we should move on to the short poem for the day because it's been so so dark it's sure i mean is it is it going to be uh... less dark it is now i think as you know uh... Richard Wright is one of my uh... favorite writers great american novelist but he was also an author of Haikou, in fact he wrote more than 4,000 Haikou's in his life.

If we wanted to, we could have a short poem every podcast for the next what, I don't know, 40 years with nothing but Richard Wright poems, but I'm just going to read you one instead of reading you all 4,000 of them. It's a nice early spring poem. An apple blossom trembling on a sunlit branch from the weight of bees. It's a high coup number 78 by Richard Wright. Well, John, we could have a Richard. If we do a dear Hengen John every week for the next 76 years, you will still have Richard Wright, highikus. I'll tell you my biggest concern about that is that one or both of us is almost certain

to be deceased in 76 years. What? Don't you think so? You think? Oh yeah. You think we're going to die? No, no, no, I think I know we're going to die. I think we're going to die within the next 76 years.

No, I think I'm going to say both of us are going to be dead in 76 years. I don't only be 115. Uh-huh. That is on the far edge of the likely curve. That is on the far edge of the likely curve. The far outside of that wave. And at 115, you're riding that down the nether regions of the bell curve there, thinking things are okay.

Like that woman who did that dance with President Obama, nobody was happier than her ever in the world. That's true, but I think she was only 104. So she's 11 years short of being able to get through all of Richard Wright's high coups. You forget how much time, like, you know, you get to be 70 and you're like, well, at any moment now, really.

And then 90 is like 20 years from that. Imagine all the stuff you get done between when you're zero and 20. You just get to do all that over again. Right, but in reverse order, so instead of getting potty trained, you find yourself. Yeah, and suddenly you have to have caregivers again. No, boy.

Oh, boy. And we've just, we've gone all the way into the darkness. And what I wanted to do was read a nice little spring high coup about bees so that I could start off with a question from a listener about bees. Okay, let's talk about bees. All right, I think our first question comes from Gabriela, who asks, dear John and Hank, I haven't heard about the bees

in a while. Are they okay or did we just get bored with them? Best wishes, Gabriella. I like it. It's Gabriella, you do understand how it all works in the news media, which is that if there's a problem, and it goes on for long enough, you're just like, well, that's not news anymore. It's not a new problem.

It's just a problem. It's just a problem. And we don't talk about problems. We talk about new problems, because there's a reason we call it the news. Yeah. The bees are, well according to my morning walks here in Los Angeles, they're just great. They're everywhere. They're like, this entire city smells like flowers. And the bees know it. I saw a hummingbird this morning, which is not a bee. I was going to say, not an expert in ornithology, but I believe that's a bird. But the lots of bees all over the place.

But I think that the colony collapse to sort of remains a problem. And we, I think that it's coming up on the season where we sort of are able to know, it's been winter. So it's sort of not bee season, not really the farming time of the year and most of America, though here in California, they just keep growing stuff all the time. So yeah, it's a little less in the news

because we are not sure how it's going because it's not be time. So we're gonna find out as we get into spring and then summer, we're gonna see how the bees are doing based, compared to last year and whether or not we're gonna continue to have crops, food, to eat, stuff like that. I mean, more important even than that, like, imagine a future in which that Richard Wright

Hikou just doesn't make sense to readers because there are no longer either Apple Blossoms or bees. I read a book recently in which something terrible happens and a person has to remake the Earth but with far more solar radiation. Uh-huh. This is a fantasy and not a science fiction. And so they make all of the plants darker in color and they make them sort of brown. And everybody reads literature from the past

and they're like, could you imagine a green plant? What a ludicrous color to apply to a plant. Yeah. It'd be like us thinking about like purple plants, being like, whole world is covered in neon purple plants. But what a lovely thing, I'm looking at the window of your hotel here, and I can see a bunch of trees of all sorts, palm trees, oak trees, other trees.

Yeah. Pine deciduous and otherwise. And what a nice color to have the world covered in. The nice and it must be said utterly artificial as we are currently in a desert. Oh, Los Angeles, it can handle the trees, it's fine. We'll just put a big pipe, bring it over the mountains, pipe all that water over the mountains, it's fine.

That'll make it work, we'll make it work. They can do anything. We're Americans. We got another question. John. This one's from Kara. That was the trumpiest thing you've ever said. This is from Kara. Well, that's Zerank and John.

What is the most efficient way to stir my hot cocoa? Kara. Well, Kara. Good news. There is a physics answer to this question. It's just there. Is it looking us up? Yeah, it involves Brownian motion.

It's the reason why when you blow on your hot cocoa, it actually does cool it off faster than if you don't go on it. For you, say so. I googled it and Kara, a couple things. First off, I don't understand why stirring your hot cocoa makes it cooler than it would otherwise be, but it does. Secondly, this is not something that you should worry about. No, no, I think that what you should definitely not do is use like a two-stroke lawnmower

to stir your hot cocoa. That would be inefficient. You're right, actually, that's a good point because you don't wanna add to your carbon footprint when you're mixing your hot cocoa. So you don't wanna do it in a blender. Right, right, make sure you're not using a jet engine. Yeah, I would use hand and spoon or one of those wooden stir sticks, but I probably, just for the sake of the environment,

use a reusable spoon. Oh yeah, I think the most efficient way to stir your hot cocoa is with a spoon and your hand. Do not, I repeat, do not involve gasoline or caracene in any way. Just no engines. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I know Kara that you are profoundly lazy and that you would like to use a two-stroke. I totally disagree with your characterization of Kara.

Okay, well I'm not talking about you. Listen, I've been reading Kara's questions on this very podcast for months now, and she's very thoughtful, interesting person. You sure it's not more than one Kara? Nope, same Kara, and I believe it's actually a carer because I believe it's actually paper town star car at Delavine.

Sure it's in every week. Great friend of the pod. Thanks, carer. Appreciate your support. We've got another question. This one comes from Sarah and Jenna, who write, dear John and Hank, we are wondering what you would name a baby if you had to name it after a fruit.

Mmm, there's somebody good fruit. I know. Mango, mango, Rothstiegelman? Stiegelman? Stiegelman? With a tea? Yeah, well first off, I mean I think this would be your baby. So it would be mango green, which is a terrible name.

Mango green is a horrible name to give a choice. Well lime green is worse. Well I'm green is bad. Olive green is actually pretty cute. Olive green is kind of adorable. I might go with olive. If an olive is a fruit, which I'm not sure it is. Olive is a fruit.

It doesn't taste like a fruit. What else would an olive be? I don't even think that an olive is a food. I've had this argument with my wife for years. I'm actually with you on this. I think it's more of like a food additive. Yeah, it's like a garnish. Yeah, right. It's more like parsley, which I also don't think of as a fruit.

Well, that's clearly not a fruit, because of how it's leaves. Well, I also don't think of it as a vegetable. I think of it as a sort of non-food item that sometimes a company's food. Well, parsley is particularly ludicrousrous because it doesn't even have flavor. It's just, it's literally there just to have, to give you a look. If you will. Well, at least parsley has a little bit of flavor, but I don't think that we really need to get into the weeds of that question because it doesn't address the larger question from

Saria and Jenna, which, what would you name your child if you had to name it after a fruit? I'm gonna go with Olive. I came up with a great answer. That's a adorable name. Olive green. What the frick? I think I'm gonna go with Kiwi.

That's cute too. Kiwi green. Mm-hmm. I like Kiwi green. Yeah. I mean, I think it's gonna be hard to lose, Sarah and Jenna. One thing that I would say is, I would not go with rectangular banana,

rectangular banana green. Or triangular banana. That's, we've seen a few triangular bananas. All seraphines. From some, dear Hank and John listeners, we should really appreciate. Yeah, thank you for sending us all your bananas on Twitter. I do wanna say that it might be a good idea,

and I was talking about this on not too deep with the Grace Helvet, which is probably gonna come out significantly after this podcast. So I'm spoiling it for you. That it's good to name your child something that's already in the emoji bank. Oh, that's a great point. So that you don't have to type out the whole name

and they can just put the emoji on the verse certificate. Yeah, it's actually, ideally, ideally you will name your child some kind of emoji. Right. I wonder what, like, if you had to pick from an emoji, what you would pick for a real name, not like a joke name, like obviously, you know, obviously we'd all be tempted by praise hands green.

Yeah. But like, what would you actually pick? It's funny, that is the example I used on Not2D. Really? Yeah. Well, or, you know, and everybody would say that they're gonna do smiling pile of poo green, but nobody will actually.

Yeah, nobody will. No, no, of course not. I'm opening up my emojis now. Like what's a good, what's a good, an alien face eyeballs? Bikini green. Bikini green. Diamond ring.

Diamond ring green. That's weird. Catapilla green. Super weird. Clover's kind of nice. Clover green. Yeah. Yeah sure.

Tulips. Let me take a look at that emoji bank. I actually don't have emojis on my phone. That's how old I am. I got them. You serious? They've got Apple. Yeah sure. Tulips. Let me take a look at that emoji bank. I actually don't have emojis on my phone. That's how old I am. They've got Apple, Apple Green, eggplant, eggplant green, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, It's really less useful, you know? Like being called baby bottle green when you're a 32 year old executive at like a large tech firm, then you just use this BB. You could be BB green. We actually have a cousin BB.

Golfing green? Golfing? Golfing green. Is that person? Yeah, the person is golfing. It's a golfing green. Golfing green. Tennis green.

Tennis green is a thing. I'm pretty pleased with yellow ribbon green. And then I think I would go with Purple Space Invader Green. If I had to actually make a choice, I'd go Purple Space Invader Green. I didn't know that was a Space Invader. Could it just be like Flag of Japan Green? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha two-thirds of the clock. Yeah, yeah, yeah, two-thirty, two-third green. All right, this is the stupidest thing we've ever done on this podcast, and that's really saying something.

Well, it's especially bad, because I'm totally ruining the great jokes that me and Grace made about this. Yeah, yeah. All right, Hank, so we got a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of questions this week about Donald Trump. Oh, I bet we did. It's the thing where no matter what you're doing, what you're talking about, it just comes up.

You're like, it's enough that a 90% of the news is Donald Trump. Could not 90% of my life be Donald Trump, please? You know Hank, it's funny. I was thinking about an old line often falsely attributed to George Bernard Shaw. It's not really clear. It's provenance, but it is a wonderful, wonderful observation

and seems to me to speak to our time brilliantly. The line is this, never wrestle with a pig. You get dirty and besides the pig likes it. I think when it comes to Donald Trump, all you get when wrestling the pig is dirty and all Donald Trump gets is stronger. I have not seen any evidence that pointing out that Donald Trump is not qualified to be president of the United States on many different levels has resulted in any cracks in his support. So we're trying to figure out how to best engage with that in online discourse.

But this question comes from Eric, an incident interesting one. He writes, dear John and Hank, we need to have a serious discussion about politics with the entirety of Nerdfighteria. I don't know that that's actually possible, Eric, because Nerdfighteria is sort of, it's like an amoeba. It's an amorphous blob of what's different kinds of people. It's an amorphous blob of what's different. It's an amorphous, different kind of people. It's an amorphous blob of people with shifting identities. We can disagree on tax rates on minimum wages

on how much the US government should intervene in different things, and you're right that this is a conversation we need to have peacefully and respectfully, but we also need to set boundaries. You can't expect me to respect the opinion of someone who believes that gay marriage is wrong and should be illegal, or treat as legitimate the claim that global warming isn't a huge man-made problem, yet

those are the viewpoints of all three main Republican candidates. So this is a difficult, difficult thing, and like I have the same problem, I have the same problem, and but I at the same time want to be able to not hate these people. Well, for me, it's what's gonna work. I'm not interested in the... Right, right, right. Well, there is, yes, I see what you're saying, but yes. Yeah, I think you're right.

I think what's... Yeah, you continue talking because I am doing poorly. So in my opinion, removing people from the conversation or excluding them from the conversation does not lead to change. So making it so that people don't feel comfortable in a space, that all that means is that they're going to seek out other spaces

where they won't be challenged on those topics. They're going to seek out their echo chambers, and that's true for all of us, by the way, not just people who don't think that climate change is man-made, which it is. is how do I engage in conversations where I state strongly that, you know, obviously, I believe that in marriage equality, I believe that there's a massive, overwhelming amount of evidence that climate change is caused by humans. And how do I say that and acknowledge that and make that part of my worldview? While at the same time, not excluding other people from the conversation, which in the end will get me less, will get me further and further away from what I want,

which is people who can engage seriously with each other on these topics, because I really believe that if you engage seriously, you think seriously, and you look at the evidence when it comes to climate change, or when it comes to marriage equality, the argument goes away. The legitimacy of the anti-marriage equality argument goes away and the legitimacy of the anti-governing isn't real thing.

That goes away, too. Yeah, I mean, it's difficult to have compassion for people when you feel a little bit like the source of their perspective contains not so much compassion, but it's difficult to have compassion for people when you feel a little bit like the source of their perspective contains not so much compassion. But it's important to remember that people are very different from each other. I have a little bit more sympathy for the global warming thing, because it's like, OK, fine, whatever.

Maybe you feel like this is all just a liberal plot to increase the size of government. And like, sure, that's scary. But the denial of people's rights, sure, that's scary. But like the denial of people's rights just seems very un-American, but it is obviously a thing that we did for the last 200 years and it is terrifying that we've done that. And so I try to have sympathy.

I try to be compassionate and think hard about, like, and like understand that people have different perspectives than me, that does not make them bad people. It makes them beliefs bad, but it does not make them bad. And I am reminded of a line from Ender's Game, which I just looked up and did not have this in my head. In the moment, when I truly understand my enemy, understand him well enough to defeat

him, then in that very moment I also love him. And particularly poignant because the author of Ender's Game is kind of, you know, homophobic douche. Yeah, no, I mean, I think. Yeah. So the other thing, the other thing I'd add here is that I have seen a lot in YouTube comments and just generally in the way that we're talking, people saying, look what's happened to this great country, look how horrible things have become in the United States, this once great nation. And I think that calls back to a past that just did not exist, right?

I mean, for the vast majority of American history, women couldn't vote. For much of American history, white men couldn't vote unless they were rich enough to own property. For the vast majority of American history, African American men couldn't vote. I mean, for the vast majority of America's history, it has been a profoundly undemocratic place.

Like in 1968, most delegates who chose the nominees for the political parties were not beholden to voters in any way, and that's changed, and that's good. The United States has become a more inclusive country when it comes to governance in the last 50 years and in the last 100 years and in the last 200 years. And I just don't buy that there's a place

in American history that you can point to that was some golden age. Like, we are a deeply flawed country, but we always have that. That's all clearly just, you know, psychology. And that's just how we feel about the world. And we're pointing out not, this hearketing bag isn't pointing out a legitimate thing that we're remembering. It's just connecting with people's emotions.

And that's a lot of what this is about. And I think a lot of, you know, like, and then you get into like trying to figure out the psychology of every person who's supporting Donald Trump when every person who's supporting Donald Trump has a different psychology, different ideology and different reasons why they're doing it. Some people just are just racist.

Some people are excited about a legitimate businessman in office, even though it's not what I would call a legitimate businessman. Nor in fact a successful one. And some people are just like a hundred percent protest vote because the Republican Party tried to spread itself a little too thin and how it appealed to voters. And clearly a lot of people got disenfranchised by that process. So I think the other thing that Eric wanted to point out is that we talk a lot about Trump and Trumpism,

but Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio and holding many cases very similar. Ideological. Ideological. Especially when it comes to climate change and marriage equality. And a few other things that are important to a lot of voters, and that are sort of, in my opinion, at least, openly discriminatory. And that's an important thing to note. You can't sort of ridicule Trumpism without also noting that it is part of a much larger

strain of ideology within the Republican Party that has in many cases broad support among Republicans. And I think that, but I don't think the way to counter that is with, is merely with anger or without rage. I think the way to encounter it is to try, to listen to people, and to try to understand them, and then to defend your point of view, you know, passionately and with seriousness. Yeah, and I, yeah, we look at this, and a lot of this is driven, in fact, by

Look at this, and a lot of this is driven, in fact, by people objectifying their opponent and it is ludicrous to say that we do not do that. We as liberals, as Democrats, we do that all the time. I know, Democrat. Well, as we're as like whatever we are. This just got awkward. Whatever we are. Like all sides do that. We love to demonize our. Whatever we are. It is like all sides do that. We love to demonize our opponents and we are so good at it.

And it is, it is the reason why a lot of, and it's been sort of like a joyous thing to ridicule them as a Democrat, as a liberal for the last eight years because there's been a guy that I like quite a bit in the White House. And that probably didn't do us any favors in the long term. The ridiculing, you mean? Yeah, the ridiculing. Yeah. Not the presidency, which I quite enjoyed.

The last thing that I want to say is, yeah, I think that we end up looking at this as like a team sport. And we're rooting for our team. And even like we disengage from policy and talk only about ideology and about who's bad and who's wrong. And I think that I've just started to feel more than ever. And the last few months, it's really important to think of this country

as a country and that maybe governing it is more important than winning. And I don't know that anybody in politics is feeling that right now. That was very beautifully put, Hank. Let's try to have more policy discussions on dear Hank and John instead of ideology discussions. I'd love to have a question about what we think the top marginal income tax rate should be, for instance. Well, I've got one here from Robin that is somewhat similar who asked, dear Hank and John, is Kanye West cocky or confident? All right, so I have a lot of opinions on this. Maybe we should just skip it. Maybe there's too much.

I don't know. Yeah, I much for him? I don't know. Do we have a whole episode to devote to the question? There's some things that I consider myself, like something of an expert in, young adult fiction, the sort of ethics around can join twins. There's a few things that I've done a lot of reading about. There is nothing that I have thought so long

and so hard about like Kanye's confidence-slash cockiness. So you should watch Sarah's video, the case for Kanye West, where she makes the case for him as a contemporary artist, whose work is in many ways a kind of performance art. I think that Kanye is often a buffoon. He is often wrong. He is often offensive. He does also often apologize for being wrong and a buffoon and offensive, which is something that you don't see enough these days. I love a good apologizer. He is a provocateur. He understands that in the contemporary media landscape being provocative is in many ways more valuable than being great. And he is also a brilliant, brilliant manipulator of contemporary discourse and media. And I think that he is confident, but I also think that he plays cocky because he understands what he understands

both the threats and opportunities posed by this image of a cocky African-American strong male. And I think he plays with our expectations around that. And so I think it's not a matter of being cocky or confident. It's a matter of transcending both cockiness and confidence in the pursuit of something else that he wants that's much more interesting. And do you think that that is a thing that Kanye wants,

West wants only for Kanye West, or is that something bigger than that? No, I think Kanye West is trying to make a bunch of points to all of us about celebrity, about media worship, and about the way that we treat and imagine and look at black bodies in media and in public conversations. I also think that Kanye West is trying to do what's good for Kanye West, and I think that there is an amazing and sometimes unproductive tension there.

And I would love for Kanye to be able to let go of what's good for Kanye. Do you think that we could have him on the podcast? Do you think we could get Kanye on the pad? Get him a little deer hankajon? Maybe he could bring some news from Neptune. So here's where would he bring the news from? Here's my closest connection to conia oh you have a close connection to conia

i am looking at you you hangin out with taylor swift conia west right around the corner i am uh... i am acquainted with uh... kendall and kiley jenner oh i'm acquainted with conia west's agent oh well yeah that's why don't we just call it what we just call we just call him? Actually, yeah, now that I think about it, we know Kanye West's agent. Why don't we just call him?

I'll just text him right now. Yeah, just be like, hey, can you get Kanye on our pod? It's the 370 third most popular podcast on iTunes today. Uh, yeah, and we talk, and I wanna ask Kanye, his opinion's on death, mostly, I just wanna know how I feel about it. The impending demise of Kanye West, the thing that will happen.

I would be fascinated to hear what, whether Kanye West thinks about death and whether it haunts him at night. Oh, why do you think? Why else is he doing all this stuff? Well, why else? It's all about everybody's driven by the same thing, John. No, I don't buy that argument at all,

because I actually don't buy it either, because I'm not driven by death the way that you are. I'm not driven by the same thing, John. No, I don't buy that argument at all, because I actually don't buy it either. Because I'm not driven by death the way that you are. I'm not driven by death at all, because I have, I don't labor under the delusion that somehow like work that I do will survive me and ways that will allow me to like somehow escape the universality of death. Think about death.

I don't think, you're always thinking about death. You don't think about death? I very rarely think about death. Really? Yeah. Like think about death. Really? Yeah. Like your own death or other peoples? I think about other peoples' death far more than think about my own.

I would estimate that I think about my death. I mean, you think about it every day, right? No. You go a whole day without thinking about your death. I would say that 90% of the times I think about death is while we're recording Dear Hengenjohn. Are you serious? Yeah. So I understand that like my rumination and obsession with my own mortality is like an outgrowth of my obsessive-compulsive disorder because I recognize those

thought spirals as being very similar to the other thought spirals that I get into. But at the same time, it seems to me the only one that isn't crazy. I understand like, when I look at the sort of like my OCD, like I see behaviors and I'm like, those are not normal. Like, you know, like, that is a mental health problem. But I don't feel that way about my obsession with death at all. It feels totally normal. Sorry. Well, I don't know.

People are going to have to let us know. And it comes in the SoundCloud and at the thepatreonpatrion.com. So I should hear Hank and John. Do you think about death every day? Boy, today's podcast is really brought to you by death. Cold, dead, senseless, meaningless death. It is everywhere. Not for the first time is it brought to you by death, either?

Today's podcast is also brought to you by two-stroke cocoa stirers. As powered by gasoline mixed with motor oil, you just post it right down in there, India. Coco, give it a pull. And then you get brilliant, so efficient. And ofrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Welcome to the terrible future. Healthy political discourse no longer extent. I'm in the United States. Just don't think we had a past with healthy political discourse. I just, you realize we had a civil war.

We did. And people killed each other on a battlefield over bad political discourse. It's true, it's true. And I don't think that people are gonna kill each other on a battlefield. No, we are not gonna have a civil war. No, no.

Yeah, it's nice, it's nice. I'm glad to be there. I'm glad to be, though I was talking to a person who's an expert and who has done mediation for several actual wars, like people on both sides of actual wars. And he was like, none of the other places I went to

thought that it could happen to their country. Oh. That was like, shut up and stop talking to me. I don't wanna know. Don't tell me about how any of me. I don't want to know. Don't tell me about how any of that. I got a question from Jason John. Jason asks, do your hand can John, what are your thoughts on JC Penney's Penny Days sale,

where many of the products have a buy one, get one for a penny sale. I personally feel very upset by this. Well, here's what I'll say, Jason. It isn't a buy one, get one for a penny sale. It's a buy one, get one for a penny sale. It's a buy one, get one free sale, because pennies are worth nothing.

So, is this the thing that's upsetting you? I assume so. Yeah, I assume it's the fact that it just calls attention to the worthlessness of the penny. I mean, in this moment, JC pennies is essentially saying, this is such a good deal that we will give you the second item for not nothing.

We will take away something that is worth less than nothing. We will take away this thing that you might have that's worth less than nothing. As a kind of charitable endeavor, we will take your pennies away from you. I all kind of love the idea of a place that like it's like the sale is bring us your pennies and we'll take them. That's the whole sale. Can I, you can buy things as well? Can I tell you the business I hate most in the entire world, coin store?

Really? Do you know coin stars are publicly traded stock? You could buy coin star stock on a stock exchange. Well, I won't because this is coin star's business model. Coin star's business model is coins are so worthless. They are such a bad example of what money ought to do, which is facilitate the exchange of goods and services, that we, what we'll do, is you throw all of your coins into our machine, and all we're going to do is take away 7% of the value of your money in exchange for giving you money in a different form

that you can finally use to spend. It is a ludicrous, it is a ludicrous thing that exists. But I do, there's a thing that I very much like about coin star. If you go, this is a thing, if you go to a coin star, there's a little, there's like a mesh thing that the smallest one is a little bit smaller than a dime. And then you lift it up and they all slide in.

What happens is all of the stuff that isn't, that is in like people's cardboard box full of coins, all the stuff that isn't coins falls through that and just into a tray. And so you can stick your head in there and look down and see all the stuff that people had in their weird cardboard boxes full of coins. And it's always fascinating to find out what's in there.

Yeah. It's so great. And you just look down in there and you're like, look at all that stuff. Look at all that stuff that people have in their boxes full of coins. That doesn't give me any fulfillment. I love that so much. What would give me fulfillment is if we had a rational money making that focused on, huh? Sure.

What could we do to make our money useful to the people on earth who spend it? What would give me the same thrill though? If we got rid of coin stuff, we got rid of all this, we made all of this things, the policies make sense. What would give me that thrill?

Where would I go for that? What's in people's coin boxes thrill? No, you go over to your friend's house, you open up their medicine cabinet, it's duly fascinating, you have the exact same joy. That's awful, John, don't do that. I do it every time I visit. If I'm at your house, you can rest assured

that when I go to your bathroom, I take a quick glance. Oh man, I gotta put all my suppositories in the under compartment. I have a secret compartment at the back of your medicine cabinet. You open up the medicine cabinet, you open the other back of the medicine cabinet, you just reach in the other room where you grab your friend's hair and they're like, ah, it's great fun.

We've got another question, Hank. The podcast is so far off the rails that I don't know how to get it back on the rails, but this question comes from Anna. I think the frozen character, but I'm not positive. Okay. And she writes, dear John and Hank, my friends, and I have been discussing the consequences of losing your big toe. They've been telling me that you would have a lot of trouble

for people spelling John. I'm not being funny, they're spelling. I think they mean if it became loose. Loosening, just twisting it like three times. Not like twisting it a few times, not like full removal, but just like the top of a Coke can. Yeah, like what if your toe was just loose?

Just a little bottle. Yeah, it's loosened. Yeah, like what if your toe was just a loose? A bottle? Yeah, it's a loosened. Yeah, if it was slightly loosened. No, so Anna, I feel that this is an important moment in our relationship. Losing has only one O in it. Losing, which is also a word, has two O's in it,

but I think you meant losing, losing your big toe. They've been telling me that you'd have a lot of trouble walking if this happened. So what would actually happen if you lost your big toe? Would your life be that different? Yes, it would be hard to walk, and it would be very hard to dance, in particular, I think. Running, you just, just pay a little bit, here's an idea. Take a, take a pebble, like some kind of uncomfortably sized pebble, and tape it, like, scotch tape it at the bottom of your big toe.

And every time you feel that pebble as you walk around, think I would not be able to put pressure on that place. And imagine how it would feel to walk around with you. Yeah, your big toe does a great deal of work. It is connected to a large tendon that's connected to your calf muscle. It's one of the muscles in your calf controls your big toe. And it's a fairly large muscle and it does a lot of work. You do not want to not have that thing to do that pushing. From a functional standpoint, according to a study published in clinical orthopedics and related research, amputating a big toe results in little or no disability.

So everything that you just said is wrong. At least, at least according to clinical orthopedics and related research, which I don't know if that's a better source than your thing about putting a pebble on your toe, but I kinda suspect that it is. So it will affect your gait, but it will not result in you being unable to run. Sure, you would, yes.

In the beginning, it would be much more difficult. You'd get better at using it. But I do think that if you really enjoyed dancing, it would definitely impact your ability to dance. I actually have a lot of toe pain in my pinky toe on my right foot. I mean, this must be the seventh podcast where you've mentioned that. I often wish that I could have it amputated, but I've been told that it would impact my ability to have a good time on the dance floor. Yeah. John, you know what, how I feel about this podcast today.

A little bit disorganized, a little disconnected, maybe not the smoothest one we've ever done. No. I feel like we gave no dubious advice at all. None whatsoever. Absolutely zero. And we talked about my least favorite topic, which is Donald Trump. I just want to not ever do it. And yet there we did.

We did it, John. Well, I don't think we'll be doing it again. So I hope that those of you who wanted us to do that are satisfied because I can't see us going back to it, at least not in the short run. I just don't want to do what I us to do that are satisfied because I can't see us going back to it, at least not in the short run. I just don't want to do what I want to do, which is to make myself feel like talk to a bunch of people about how superior we are, to a bunch of people who believe different things than us, or like support different things than us.

And I'm like, no, that's just more of the bad thing, where we all talk about how much better we are than other people. I don't know what you just said, but I feel dirty and I feel sure you'll find it. And from these gravitational differences, we can tell us some different new things about Mars. We can see the effects of the massive tharsis volcanoes when they erupted and basically crushed down the Martian crust, crushed down the crust. We can see constant sublimation and condensation of CO2 at the poles, and we can see how much that all of the massive amount trillions of tons of CO2 is in the gravity of Mars. And also, we can tell that Mars, as we suspected from, I think, a study back in, I remember, like 10 years ago,

that Mars actually has a liquid outer core, just like Earth. So, Earth has like a solid inner core and then a liquid mantle, and then the crust. And so, we think that Mars has also a liquid outer core, which raises the question, why, if it does, does it not have a magnetic field? Because the gas, because the inner core inside of this liquid core, the solid inner core, isn't spinning for whatever reason.

And if it were, it would be a very different planet. Mars would be probably potentially a planet with a lot more surface water. So raising a lot of questions about Mars and also answering some questions and fascinating images you should check out because it's pretty. And you can see how just also the sort of like tremendous effects of Mars's large massive volcanoes, biggest volcanoes in the solar system and also best volcanoes in the solar system

because everybody knows Mars is the best. John, what's your news? Well, Mars is not the best because ANC Wimb knows Mars is the best. John, what's your news? Well, Mars is not the best because AFC Wimbledon is the best. Hank, have you ever read Tainel of Two Cities by Charles Dickens? Oh my god. Have you?

It was the best of times and the worst of times. No, I have it. I just think maybe... That's all I needed you to say. Okay, I haven't read the book, though. It was the best of time. Charles Dickens, he's the one with like tiny Tim. And it was the worst of times.

Oh, it's good in bad news. It was the worst of times. Oh, it's good in bad news. It was the worst of times. Oh, it was, but now it's the best. No, unfortunately it remains the worst of times because AFC Wimbledon, you'll recall Hank, their new stadium, going home to Wimbledon, back to Palau Lane. It was unanimously approved by the Merton Planning Council until yesterday. What? When London Mayor Boris Johnson decided that all of that was irrelevant. I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know,. Uh, Boris Johnson, he also hates love and joy and happiness.

He, uh, he called the, uh, he called the stadium plan in, uh, and now there is going to be a second hearing. Uh, Wimbledon will, it is not an end. Wimbledon will continue to push for a new stadium and it may well happen, but it will probably be the work of the next mayor. So that is the discouraging news, and it is really discouraging because of course, you know, the AFC Wimbledon's long-term plans to return to their, you know, to return to their neighborhood to be back at Plow Lane, you know, it was looking great, and now it's looking slightly less great.

And yet, it was the best of times. Uh-oh. It was the best of times, because down one nil against bottom of the league, York City, AFC Wimbledon, were basically in a position, Hank, 70 minutes into the game, down one nil to the worst team in the league. They were basically in a position where it just,

the playoff dream was dead. And then there was an own goal, my favorite kind of goal. It's the equivalent of a game being won by Waterlogged Pitch, an own goal. It's just a beautiful thing. And this was a beautiful goal. And then, in the third minute of three minutes of stoppage time, Jake Reeves, Hank, I believe I've shown you the goal.

You have, I saw that. People should go Google the goal. Go to go look at AFC Wimbledon versus York highlights on the YouTube because this is astonishing. It is a nice goal. In the last minute of the game, Jake Reeves takes the ball down on his chest from 30 yards outside, and he loops in a ridiculous volley. It's like it curves. It's like it says to the air,

I'm not so sure about how you work. But I've decided that you're gonna work this way today. It was a wiffle ball. It was a goal. It was, and I like how he kicks it. He's just sort of like, eh. It was like,iffle ball of a goal. It was, and I like how he kicks it. He's just sort of like, eh. It was like Jake Reeves, not our best player, but a solid English fourth tier professional soccer player.

In the last moment of the game, chested the ball down and thought to himself, maybe I should do that thing I know how to do. Yeah. And then proceeded to do it. Yeah, you hit the very upper left-hand corner of the ball. Maybe I'll hit both the crossbar and the post as the ball goes into the net from 30 yards out. But first, I'll kick it so high that it's like 700 feet above the air.

That's above the air. Yeah, it's not even in the atmosphere. It's in outer space. but then thank God the forces of gravity are such that it was returned from near-earth orbit to the goal and wimbled in one, two, one, one, one, kneel down to two, one up. That's the way we're going to win the cup. You get for winning the playoffs. I am very excited. We've got Hartlepool next, also a bit of a bottom-dweller. Hartlepool, I once saw them play Swindon Town. They weren't particularly impressive, but did get a draw. Hartlepool next, and then just eight games remain in AFC Wimbledon's season.

It's been a great season, if very frustrating for this news from uh... one didn't care i really think you should go one by the way he is uh... he is something to look at uh... and uh... you see what i mean oh wow i know he looks like uh... he looks like the the guy in the pit of despair ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Princess Bride. He does a little bit. Well, he made a bad decision, but yeah, so there is darkness, there is light, and ever the two shall coexist. Long may they both reign. AFC Wimbledon, Hartley Pool, tomorrow, or yesterday, as you're watching this, listening to this. Yeah, big game, big, big game. All

right, John. We've got a couple of a couple of updates from from the From the community out there. We've got one Hank if you ever come to California, which I'm in California right now You can eat it in an out burger and enjoy some sesame seed free burger buns I knew this about in an out burger. It's one of the things I love about in and out and I love it Thank you very much for the tip and I'm sure I'll get to an in and out while I'm out here, though I'm trying not to eat it every day. I want to have. Oh, I wanted to do this just this other one from Rachel.

OK, go. And we also have this from Rachel, who says AFC Wimbledon is playing in the same league as Stephen Edge Fc, and Stephen Edge is the town where the ESA Exomars Rover, compared to the recent Exomars launch, is being designed and built. So maybe I should become a Stephen Edge fan, John. No, no, no.

When was the last time you played Stephen Edge? First off. What? First off. What's wrong with Stephen Edge? I mean, and I say this with great immense respect for Rachel, you don't want to be a Stephen Edge. Why not?

Well, for one thing, they're 22nd and League 2. Well, does that mean that they're not going to be in League 2 next year? That means there's a reasonable chance that next year you could be supporting a semi-professional club. But why? Well, I believe in them, though. I believe in them, John. And that's what it's about. Take, you know what, if you want to become a Stevenage fan and you want to have the Hank Green stand at Stevenage's stadium, which is called broad hall way. And

you want to, and you want to like have the, you I wanna be a fan of the borough. That's what they're called. The borough is the nickname of the club. Because they're from a borough, like every other club in League 2. Yeah, you can be a Stevenage supporter. And you know what, I would support you completely. I think that that would be great.

It would be great for both of us. Just so you know where Stevenage is, it's there. It's in this part of London. Oh, it's pretty near London. It looks like it's London-ish. Yeah. I'm not an expert. I'm also not what you would call an expert on the local geographies of. It's about 30 miles north of central London. You okay. Hey, I would rather you be an AFFC Wimbledon supporter than a Stevenage supporter, but I would rather you be a Stevenage supporter than not understand the beauty of football at all.

All right, well, I would rather you be a Venus supporter than not understand the beauty of the exploration of our solar system at all. All right, thanks. So what did we learn today? We learned that you think mostly, most of your time has been thinking about either death or Kanye West. That's completely untrue. It underestimates of your time has been thinking about either death or Kanye West.

That's completely untrue. It underestimates how much time I spend thinking about AFC Wimbledon. All right, you got the three things, John, the three things. And of course, we learned that it is not efficient to stir your hot cocoa using a lawnmower. No, absolutely not. It's also very efficient to get your merchandise needs fulfilled at dftba.com. Where we have, oh my God, it's burning shirts! And shirts and mugs and lots of other stuff

available at dftba.com are only actual podcast sponsor. And of course, we learned that if Hank got the name of Baby After A Fruit, he would name it all of green. No, praise hands. Sorry, I'm a map of Japan. Flag of Japan, John. Flag of Japan green. Flag of Japan green.

Oh man, what a future that kid would have. What's your name, flag? Well, that's a weird name. What's your full name? Flag of Japan green. It's just so easy to do. It's the moji that hurts to get up. All right.

John, we got... I am the proud nation of Brazil Green. Oh, difficult times in Brazil, John. The thank you for listening to our podcast. Thank you for performing in this podcast with me, John. I was an excellent performance. I'm glad you read your lines so, so, so professional. As if they were not written at all.

Well, Hank, it's been a pleasure as always to spend an hour in your company, even if the recorder had to be on for this hour. Our podcast is edited by Nicholas Jenkins, our intern is Claudio Morales, Louisiana, Hulsarol, Hoss helps us out a lot with questions and many other things. Our theme music is by Gunnarola, and as we say in our hometown,

don't forget to be awesome.