Decoding the Gurus - Candace Owens, Part 1: Charlie Kirk and the Cosmic Conspiracy

Episode Date: September 21, 2026

Candace Owens is just a Catholic, a mother, and a wife. She loves her husband, works hard, and tries not to let internet drama disturb her spiritual peace. She also has just a few questions about the international satanic conspiracy behind Charlie Kirk’s ritual murder.We join Candace during her appearance on the Shawn Ryan Show, where an impressive amount of time is devoted to establishing how lovely they both find each other. There are the usual fond memories of dinner, a husband who is a James Bond lookalike, and a series of fascinating career adventures, including how Candace rose to be vice president of administration in just 4 years! She even got to experience the damaging effects of toxic mould before it was fashionable (and don't worry, it was cured with a restrictive diet!).Candace is like a one-woman crash course in conspiratorial ideation and how conspiracy theorists interact with other conspiracy theorists and conflicting evidence. But, to be fair, she is also very good at what she does! Coming across as a charismatic and composed speaker who makes very ugly claims sound like an entirely reasonable conversation.But then there are the questions... Why do witnesses remember different things? Why was ten inches of soil removed rather than eight? Did Charlie Kirk's necklace move before his jacket? But that's just the start; as is often the case we end up talking about Rothschilds, Freemasons, Denmons, and a public demonic ritual intended to channel spiritual energy into a surprising target. Shawn Ryan, who assures us repeatedly that he is an extremely sceptical person, is astonished at what he hears!And there's more to come too... in Part 2.Source materialShawn Ryan Show #318: Candace Owens, “I Don’t Believe Tyler Robinson Was Even There”Candace Owens vs Andrew Wilson: The Great DebateShawn Ryan Show #254: Brian Harpole, Charlie Kirk’s head of security60 Minutes: The Pager PlotDarkHorse: “Was Charlie Kirk Killed With a Drone?” with Viva Frei and Jimmy DoreCandace, episode 349: Corey Comperatore, Mark Liti, and the PETN claimsBrian Harpole’s complaint against Candace Owens and others, filed 30 April 2026 (plaintiff’s allegations, not court findings)Clare Malone, The New Yorker: “The Gospel of Candace Owens”Jesse Singal, New York: reporting on Social Autopsy and GamergateMariel Padilla, The 19th, via Capital B: “Candace Owens Has Won the Trust These Women Refuse to Give Politicians”Samantha Putterman, PolitiFact: Charlie Kirk conspiracy claims, one year later

and welcome to the coding the gurus podcast for an anthropologist and a psychologist listen to the greatest minds the world has to offer and we try to understand what they're talking about i'm matthew brown our renowned pan-psychist and with me is chris kavanaugh shorter than the average man by some accounts and he's he's the anthropologist from uh japan slash ireland and i'm the psychologist from australia uh welcome chris good-day good-day i'm the platonic average of meal heighted miss my I think five that's not what I see that's what I'm not what I'm on the street

that's what people are saying when I go fast to say that's the platonic average of a month look how look how average that man's height is that's remarkable that's what people

well it's whole being they're just like he's pretty average he's not that good he's not that bad he's just average I just average I just like a tiny bit like

is just like half a centimeter a centimeter less in japan man no no no no we're not counting japanese in vietnam in vietnam i'm actually pretty tall i mean it's a few spanish fan that it's that it's that intro occurred to me because i was browsing reddit and uh the discussion people were talking about i hate huma No, no, relax, relax. They were talking about me and my pan-psychism. And they're asking, where did this come from? Where did this meme come from?

And I told them, it's Chris. Chris did this because he's a vindictive and bitter man, still upset, trying to get me back for spreading rumors that he was shorter than the average man. The actions of a small, small man, may I say, Chris. I believe, Matt. Well, you've just given away. whole game and that's why you will feel. But also

the reason that you're known as a pan-psychist, I believe it's because you have a habit of saying things like, well, but you know, pan-psychism isn't that bad. It's got a lot of merit to things like that. It's my favorite of the,

you know, crazy philosophies and stuff like that. So that's... See, none of that is true. That's why. None of that's quite the truth. I expect it better from a co-host of Dakota and the gurus, but, you know, I won't dispute it. Well, let's see. Chris, in the future, could you insert the relevant clip right away to know? Pan-psychism, something which ends up appealing to a lot of philosopher-type people in the end.

I'm not a pan-psychist, Chris. but. Oh my God. Oh my God. Don't come on. I hear a big part coming. But you have to admit there is that. Carry on, carry on.

Carry on. Yeah, carry on. You have to admit there is like there is a logical flow there, right? If you accept that, that people are conscious, right? Or whatever that means, we're just not content to that. But you also accept that, you know, dole. are to some degree conscious or have some sort of subjective experience, etc. Then by sort of a process of extension,

then like where is the natural threshold to draw the distinction between conscious and non-conscious things if you go from person to dog to goldfish to fly to bacteria to fix and stones? Where would you draw the boundary? Well, you know, at least pan-psychism is, is kind of coherent and sort of, like, it has a simple, like, a simple kind of elegance to it on the face of it. I want to get your height scientifically tested. Then you can play the clips. I get, so you know what? We're here, we're here today. We're doing the decoding. This is the coding episode.

It's not a sub-adrored material. It's the last decoding to be recorded in my manga cafe cubicle. I'm going back to my office after this. So farewell, manga cafe, cubicle. We barely knew ye. So if there's any audio discrepancies or whatever that you detect, that's likely because of the environment I'm in now. Yeah, yeah. You won't miss it.

I will not miss it. And kind of fitting, Matt, for this somewhat depressing locale. The guru that we're decoding this time is count the soans. fair to say not someone that either you or I were looking forward to cover. I kind of felt about her the same way I did about covering Dave Rubin. Like, I know their general reputation. I've seen so many clips of them saying stupid things. And I know or thought I knew the kind of things that they like to argue and say.

And that is true. There is no surprise in lots of the things that she's argued. for the positions that she holds. But I will say it was more interesting than I anticipated. That's something I'll say. I'll say more, Ma. Let's be going to the cutting, but yeah. I think there's something leaked on the bones here.

That's right. That's right. To paraphrase Sherlock Holmes, it seems like an elementary case, but there are some interesting facets to it, I think. I certainly wasn't aware of either. Like you, I'd only really seen clips and quips, quotes from Candice Owen saying something mad. And I will say that having spent some time with her.

Four hours. Four hours. Four hours. One of the time that I would choose voluntarily. Some things did come to light that I was not previously aware of. So, yeah, it should be all right. Should be all right. Yes.

No, she's a conservative commentator from America. I think many people know her. She previously worked at Prager. you, turning point USA and the Daly Wire and now has an independent show. She's kind of done the full gamut almost of right wing media. She was pro, Trump. Now she's a little bit critical of Trump in the Tucker Carlson way. We'll get into that.

But I do want to just start Matt, just to give people. You know, sometimes people look at us, Matt, and they say, oh, they've got it easy. They're just here, having fun, relax, and listening to idiots, it's chat nonsense. I just want to play a clip from towards the end. I think it's about three and a half hours in. This illustrates facets of Candace that are not often emphasized, but I just want to point out that this segment lasted probably about 10 minutes. Okay, so listen to this. I can't even explain the poll that pulled me to the UK. And I saw him. I mean, I don't know if I dreamed it. I mean, some things are just so metaphysical. We don't understand the world and the way it

works but I know I knew it was my husband and I was right so everyone was wrong I was like no that's obviously my husband like I know like and the way that I describe how I felt and I will be such a hypocrite by the way in the future when my daughter pulls this she'll be about to marry I feel like my daughter someday is going to watch this episode and be like you and dad fell in love when you're watching and you're 20 however old you are Louise you're not allowed to meet any guy like this you're not allowed to get married after 18 days this only applies for me I'm going to be a total hypocrite. The only way that I can describe the way I felt is it felt like a sigh of relief.

Like, there he is. Like, everything's going to be okay now. He's there. What's the secret to a successful marriage? Gosh, the secret to a successful marriage. I feel in some ways I have been just so blessed by God to just have a really easy marriage. because I hear, you know, everyone wants to know what the secret is. And I think it's the secret is loving the person you married, like genuinely enjoying them,

like genuinely being fascinated by them, like wanting to aspire to them, wanting to know them, every, like, layer of them and wanting to learn from them. Having just like a deep reverence for the person that you're marrying, like aside from just being giddy and in love with them. And I'm totally obsessed with my husband. I just genuinely am. And that's the best feeling in the world. I feel like I cheated in life somehow like that. I just got to marry the person of my dreams who wears a suit like James Bond. Yeah. That probably felt like it went on for quite a while, ma'am. But I promise the listeners, it goes on for much longer. And I, you know, I don't begrudge somebody enjoying their partner or,

having a nice marriage. I'm not sure I need to devote that amount of time to hearing someone works lyrical about how God wanted them to meet their partner. But this is something that Sean Ryan, who is the guy interviewing that we looked at, spent a significant portion of time talking about. So, yeah, just think what you were doing with your time while I and me and Ma were listening to Think of all the productive things you were doing. Yeah, yeah. So it's not all Alex Jones-esque conspiracy theorizing and really quite unpleasant allegations

and insinuations against various characters and personalities. There's a lot of schmaltz in there too. And yeah, as we'll see, despite being incredibly boring at times, it's fair to say, Candice Owens has a fair bit of charisma. Yes, somewhat shockingly to me, she's endearing as a person in a way. Like, if you are not really paying that much attention to the theories and claims that she's making, she often sounds, you know, like kind of very upbeat and unhappy and just investigating things and so on. She has an infectious way of talking about things. Oh, and related to that. So we are going to talk about this interview with Sean Ryan. who's one of these ex-military turned podcaster, conservative podcaster person. He's incredibly annoying throughout this,

and we'll hear that in the interview. But speaking to the things that Candace is good at, there was a very recent example, Matt, where she did a face-to-face confrontational debate with another conservative chud, a current favorite... of Joe Rogan called Andrew Wilson. He's one of these like paleo Christian people, right, ultra-conservative. You've probably seen him in some viral clips debating OnlyFans, Gerds. That's one of his pastimes.

But he sat down and had this debate with Candace Owens about Charlie Kirk's murder. And this is one of Candace Owen's specialist subjects. And there was this exchange that went pretty viral at the end, which I think highlights the difference in their approaches and also some of Candace's unique abilities. So I've got two clips from the exchange. They follow on from each other. So here's the first part. There's nothing going on. And just to explain people the difference of why that really matters and shows that he doesn't actually care about this at all is because aggravated murder, it's narrowly defined.

And because it carries a death sentence. I'm not. I'm going to answer the question. You're just going to recognize that your strategy of thinking that people are intimidated when you try to put a time constraint doesn't work. And you'll be better the next time you debate someone. I got it. I got it. Give me the other ones.

The more you cut me off a longer I'll take. Do you want to just wait for me to finish of why that's a big difference? No, I just want you to list the charges. I'm going to do that. You just don't get to pretend that there's a time constraint for me to do that. Well, how long does it take you to list seven charges? Because I'm speaking. It sounds like you're just delaying it because you don't know that.

I know all seven of them. And I'm going to say again, because you're going to get embarrassed. You don't have to rush this. I'm also showing an example of a very flawed debate strategy. I actually want to know time constraint. I got one. Great. The second charge is the felony discharge of a weapon.

The next two charges are for obstruction of justice. Okay. The next two charges are for witness tampering. And the final- What's the specific charges, though? That is them. Obstruction of justice. Obstruction of justice?

Witness tampering, witness tampering. Okay. And there's no other specifics to him. Well, I can tell you why he's being charged. Just the charges and then seven? See, the bad thing is when you try to be an a-hole and it doesn't work. What's the seventh? The last charge is violent.

in front of a minor. Okay, got it. So then he's being charged with murder. You just say aggravated murder. That's the distinction. You just want to. It's a massive. It's like you can't even,

you cannot say murder versus aggravated murder. Massive distinction. This gets to the entire crux of why him being up for the death sentence. And I actually find the defense is filing about why this is not aggravated to be very compelling of why it's not aggravated murder. Actually, if the state was going to even try to pull this off, they should have charged him with just murder. And then I do also, again, want to stress to audiences, that debate strategy of thinking that you have to speak faster or somebody puts your hand up and they try to pretend like it's some sport, I think he thinks it's a blood sport. It's not. It's about being right and being principled when you're engaging. And you can make mistakes. I make mistakes all the time. But at least be genuine in pretending that you care about this case enough to know one of the seven charges that are up against Tyler Robinson when you say the evidence is overwhelming that he's guilty. If you would like to move to

final statement, I'm fine. Yes, so this is Andrew Wilson, one of the things he does, right? Like, tries to catch people and gotchas around definitions or you don't know this specific fact, right? And he ill-advisedly assumed that she wouldn't be able to list the seven charges because he wasn't able to list one of them. And then she did know the charges. And she knew details about the case. So I think that is an illustration of one of her abilities is that she can whip out these details quite readily.

Yeah, yeah. And so she's very self-possessed, doesn't get flustered, speaks very well, very eloquently, and projects a good vibe, right? Like if you just forget everything you know about her in which she believes in things like that. In situations like that, she does well. And I think you'll find heaps of other material in what we'll cover where, yeah, I was quite impressed. I didn't expect to see that. Yeah, it's impressive in the way, like a creationist who has memorized a huge amount of details about, you know, evolutionary studies and fossil records and stuff and can throw them all light. Is he able to regurgitate it on the map.

That's right. Like it may well be, as we'll see, with her conspiracy theories. Much of it is founded on lies and delusions. But she's got it all at hand. She can speak about it very eloquently. She won't get confused or whatever. And it comes across the delivery is what I'm referring to. She's very good at it.

Exactly. Exactly. And Matt, just, you know, that guy, Andrew Wilson, got kind of owned there. But because he's an arrogant prick, he actually attempted to dig himself out in the forest possible way. And I just want to play it to you because it gives her such a win. Like the roller bits, you know, in the interview. where she didn't come across as well and so on, you know, when you're promoting conspiracies,

that's going to happen. But just listen to what he gifted to her in that exchange. Now, I did notice something. I just was curious about if I'm just wondering, when you pulled out your phone just before you asked that question, did somebody by chance text you that question? You can check my phone. I'm just curious. No, you can absolutely not. I have not had one communication with a single person, not even my producers who are in there this whole time we were here. You want to check my phone? I'm happy to be. do it because you're just going to get double embarrassed. Where's my phone? You want to see it?

I'm just curious. You can literally do that. Here you go. PVD. You're the moderator. Take it. Let's see. If anyone was texted at all during this debate. All right. About the violent charges or anything. I'm looking through this. You give me permission. You have full permission to go through my phone.

I don't need to cheat. So the last one has nothing to do with it. It's just a compliment. I haven't even read my tech messages. That's a compliment. He's reading them. You're okay. You're giving. me purpose. I'm just going to read three. It's 11. 11.132 because after that, I don't need to read it. And you know, their texts. Could have been telegram. Could have been something like. Oh, I have a signal. You can check that too. I only have signal. Telegram I used in Russia. And that was a down. I'll take your word for it. Yeah. I don't need to like, I deeply care about this case. I don't need to pretend to know stuff. I get it. If you deeply care about the case. Yeah. Yeah. I know you are experiencing conflicting emotions while they're enjoying that because on one hand, deeply satisfying to see this arrogant prick being.

owned. Yeah. Also, Ken to someone's been the one to do it. Yeah. But this is also the kind of debating and the infighting. I mean, you can probably bring up the names better than I can,

but even her main conspiracy theory at the moment, which is about Charlie Kirk and Turning Point and Charlie Kirk's wife. But also other stuff that she's on, it does reflect a lot of the internal divisions and fractures. and fractures within this ultra-conservative movement on the United States. Like they, there are factions and they sort of hate each other to a large degree. So the left is also famously fractures. So it's kind of satisfying to know that they've got a bad too.

And actually, she's being sued by a previous guest of the podcast that she's on for comments that she made after his appearance on. the podcast. Never said one word about him or the security apparatus because I knew them and my mind just wasn't there at all until he did your interview and it was so disastrous in my view. And I think also the view of all the people who watched it according to the comments, there was just something off about it. And I went, whoa, he's answering questions weird.

The stuff that he's saying doesn't really make sense. But that's their argument they're trying to make because they're trying to get the court to see him as a private figure who only had to come out and do the Sean Ryan show, one of the biggest podcasts in the world, defend himself against me. And I'm like, well, that's going to be a tricky argument, considering I never spoke about you ever on my show until you did the Sean Ryan show.

Wait a minute. What is, what exactly, he's, what? It's crazy. What is he suing you for? Defamation, which is difficult for me to comprehend because it's so in the category of opinion. Like the first three pages of a lawsuit, He's just kind of calling me an anti-Semite.

And I don't know what that has to do with the lawsuit at all. He's not Jewish last I checked. Neither was Charlie Kirk. So that's an example of like how these things are very fractious, right? And a lot of it, a lot of it, as we've seen, runs on interpersonal relationships. So this is from the very start of the podcast, for example. Candice Owens. Welcome to the show.

I'm so excited to do this. You and me both. You've done everybody but me. Well, that doesn't sound good. Right? I've been just like being completely left out. Well, dude, I've been nervous to meet you. Really?

Fuck yeah, I'm nervous to meet you. I feel like I'm the next- I don't want to get on your bad side. Me? Me? Little old me? Sounds like there's some rumors out there about me. I got to clear up.

I'm so nice. I'm so friendly, you know. Well, being our mutual friend, Dan, had a lot of conversations. I was like, I don't know. I don't want to wind up on a bad side. Joe spoke fairly highly of you. It's interesting to think about that,

like what people think about you before they meet you, because obviously, as you know, there's always going to be like the caricature, you know what I mean? And so we obviously have to rely on, I don't know, articles, what you hear, what's happening. And I guess there's always that moment where you're like, I wonder if it meets what I think I know about her.

It didn't. It didn't. Way better. Yeah, I'm glad. Obviously. So, yeah, I was, man, I'm glad we had dinner that night. Yeah, it was such a great dinner. I mean, your wife's amazing, and your story's amazing,

and I was always keen to do your show. Yeah, so it's a very familiar dynamic. And later on, there are more discussions, too, about, well, just an emphasis on, you know, I'm a nice person. Yes, I'm involved in all of these, you know, bitter, vicious online things. but actually when you meet me, I'm really nice, and the other person will agree,

yes, we had dinner and you're incredibly nice. Isn't it crazy that there should be such vitriol floating around out there? Yeah, and the interpersonal always comes for us the most important, right? It can almost, like, in this case, this guy, Sean Ryan, who I really, it's like, I find him and his like very predictable right-wing clustering. we'll hear his conspiracy mongering as well. To me, in a certain sense, it's more deplorable than Candace Owens

because at least she is, you know, full-throatedly, an open conspiracy fears where Sean Ryan, you know, he is completely on board with a whole bunch of stuff, but he presents it as, you know, he's just asking questions and, you know, talking to the guests. And one of the things is that he had on Charlie Kirk's security guard

previously. And like I said, Candace Owens covered it and made a bunch of accusations that the security guard is suing her. But they talk about him not pushing the guy enough. And now that they're like, Chris to Fias, you can hear her give him a pass for that. So listen to this. So it seemed like even when he was on the show, he was focused on PR, but he just wasn't very convincing, and that's literally in a lawsuit that I described him as not very convincing, and that's defamatory. That's defamatory. And I stand by it.

He wasn't very convincing. Yeah, I probably should have pressed him more. I just, I fucking felt bad, though. I mean, it was still really fresh, and the guy's tear. I just, I don't know. I've been around a lot of loss, you know, in my previous career, and so I didn't want to, I wanted to be respectful. Mm-hmm.

You know what I mean? but yeah i think you did the right thing actually because even though the viewers might feel frustration the reality is is that if you had put him under the light so to speak he would have clammed up and we benefited a lot from him just speaking so there you go you know it's fine you didn't grill him no you've got me here right so we can we can look over that i feel like if she wasn't here, but she might have harsher comments on it. But yeah, so the interpersonal friendliness it can cover a lot. Yes, but it's not all friendly. So that was Charlie Kirk's head of security, right? Yes. So she's got it in for him. As we'll get into, she's certainly got it in for

Charlie Kirk's wife. Erica is her name, Erica Kirk. But, you know, all Also many other futes, right? So turning point generally Ben Shapiro and the Daily Waibe, that's right. So she also, people might remember Bridget McCron, wife of General Macron. That's a pretty intense kind of thing. And also with Laura Luma, another wing nut case. So these are all these far right personalities, including Nick Fuentes and Tate. Parker Carlson and so on, that are sort of orbiting around the star that is Donald J. Trump.

And I don't know, it's like a feudal court, right? They're all intriguing against each other and stabbing each other in the back. That's the dynamic actually is going on. Yes. And like one of the things she goes through all these various controversies she's been involved in, some of them perhaps not her fault, like receiving. racist abuse when she was at high school, I think, but it becoming a big, a new story that was covered. And then developing a website that was basically an attempt to docks, or at least to make

people online find difficulties getting their employment if they were critical of people, because she received criticism online and so on. And she got all these complaint from the left and right she ended up involved with Zoe Quinn from Gamer Gait, feuding with her. And when she got criticized by her and also targeted by some people online, which may or may not, she believes, were like organized by Zoe Quinn. But this is part of what turns her to the right. That was my read on the situation. And so she was being protected.

And I never really, I mean, I'm just not a gamer. I just didn't know. But the only people that actually gave me a fair shake in the media, who I spoke to, was Breitbart. which was crazy because I thought they were like the white supremacist, you know, my Connecticut, Democratic surroundings, blue liberal-ish mind. I was really reticent to speak to them. And then they wrote the truth about what I had said.

So I was kind of like, what the heck is going on? Why is up down and down up? And at this time, at the same time, Trump was running. And so I was kind of quite, questioning my allegiance to leftist media, so to speak, because of how I was treated and I didn't really comprehend when I just told them the truth about this random chick. But in those cases, it's very much that she's constantly, you know, the center of drama or there's something going on. She has various issues. Actually, I've got a clip that, like, highlights it. Just before

you play, Chris, just confirm something. This is something you told me I didn't know about. So when she started her career as some kind of public figure, she was kind of left-aligned. She was progressive coded for one of the better phrase. Is that correct? Yes, so she had a degree 180 website, which was anti-conservative in nature, and then the website that she proposed social autopsy was kind of like a council culture website. It was like that you would gala up material that people have posted online, attach their, you know, real name and identifying information to them and make it searchable by employers or other people online. She regarded it as like a kind of accountability thing, but it was framed as like a planned doxing site, right? And she received criticism from left-wing

activist who said, you know, you can't do that because people need an anonymity. And she received some criticism from right wing source as well, but it was stronger from the left. And this like her Kickstarter campaign was suspended. And she regarded it as likely to be primarily progressives

that did that. Then she had a YouTube channel that was called Red Pill Black and went in to the Tony Point USA and all the different things we talked about. But she started off as yeah, left the line. Though in this interview, she describes it as

like not being very deep, just being the kind of general position that people would take without looking strongly the end of things. But that's kind of self-serving because now she wants to identify as like, you know, really in her heart, she was a lifelong conservative.

And I was liberal, like in the way that you don't know anything and it just kind of sounds better even. Are you a liberal or conservative? I'm a liberal. I'm a liberal. What do you mean? And I think any time... What do you mean?

Yeah, what do you mean? Before you have bills, life is so, it's so easy to be, like, idealistic when you don't have to pay bills and you don't really comprehend the issues, then you lean into the emotional issues and, like, live and let live. You love these, like, stupid bumper sticker expressions.

You see, it all's so nice, it fits your, like AIM profile, you know, like, oh, let me find a quotation to put on my going away message on AIM. You know, like the youth, you're liberal when you're young. There's that expression. I gosh, who says the expression that if you're not a liberal when you're young, you don't have a heart? If you're not a conservative when you die, you don't have a brain.

Then you suddenly you're paying taxes and you're like, hey, where's this money going? Like, why am I working so hard? And then your philosophy changes a bit as you get older. But I never was politically inclined. So I never voted Democrat. I was just, I would have very much described myself as a liberal. And if you had asked me any topic, I would have been, I would have been across the Democratic party line if I was actually voting, but I wasn't.

Yeah. Yeah, so just noting the striking liability there, you know, how much she's moved around. Or this kind of thing we sometimes see in our gurus. And I got to mention Anne Applebaum, who notices the same kind of thing amongst the apparatchiks should call them, this kind of new wave of apparatchiks in Eastern Europe that are attached themselves to authoritarian right-wing movements there, but who previously, when the zeitgeist was, you know, communist, either the same people or the same kind of people who would be aligning themselves with that, essentially self-interested careerists. And I think that's

a dynamic that dovetails pretty nicely with our podcast and gurus, right, who, yes, they have their stances, they have their labels. And at the time, they believe them wholeheartedly. But underneath that somehow is this, you know, very deep undercurrent of pure self-interest, self-promotion. Yes. And I think it can also be linked to, like, there is the opportunistic political aspect of it, of like trying to appeal to whoever they think can, you know, leverage additional power

or attention to them. But I think in a other aspect of it is. very, very much individual focused, right? That, like, they see the world for their grievances and issues that have befallen them. And it's a bit like the Weinstein's. You know, we have it in the grievance-wongering for a reason that you view all of the things is related to you. And the world is either, you know, conspiring against you or conspiring to meet

events happen to you. Like, you know, she even described meeting her husband as the universe wanted that happen. And I think that is the way a lot of our gurus think about things. So this is how Matt acknowledging at least a part of the pattern from a bit later in the interview. Where'd you go to college? Went to the University of Rhode Island. That incident in high school happened when it was in my senior year. So it kind of threw my entire senior year into chaos. And I'm lucky I even applied to college. I almost didn't even apply because it was so crazy. And the URI was like close enough.

I just applied to URI, got in, went there. What'd you want to study? English and journalism. I have a double major in English and journalism, so I think it's quite fitting. Yeah. Where do we go from there? Where do I, where did I go from there? So actually, the story is I had, I finished my degree later because Sally Mae had a huge collapse

and didn't give me my loan for my senior year. of college. I have senior year issues, I've realized. You've got some senior year issues. So, you know, there were issues, Matt, right? And part of this interview, significant portions of it are just going through her life story, right? But we will see that there's a massive dose of it that goes into conspiratorial stuff. But there were some, I think, interesting aspects around guru stuff. So one is, I think it's just notable. So many of our gurus, whenever they're telling their stories, about their lives. It's always like I had these difficulties with my PhD, right? Like, people weren't allowing me to attend courses or, you know, I had this feud with my professor and so on. And of course, like, this happens, right? You know, people have events in their life. But it's just not about that the gurus seem to be particularly unfortunate. They just meet with a lot of things where the world is conspiring against them or, you know, they're unfortunately on the receiving end

of unfair treatment. So Candice Owens notes that. And the other flip side of it is every time that she describes how she performed in a given role, it is always extremely self-aggrandizing. So after she finishes college, what does she go to do? Or she doesn't graduate from college. I think she takes a break and then does this and then goes back. But any case, what happens?

I needed to make some money and get out of debt. And so I was like, if I get my foot in the door, anywhere. I can sell myself. I can like I can learn anything. I'm a really hard worker. And my second interview at a private equity firm, I saw that like they pay their assistants really well, these private equity guys. And so my second interview at a private equity firm, I got hired to be a second assistant and hired on a spot, which was fantastic. And then I stayed with that company for four years. And when I left, I was like the vice president of the administration. Wow. They were fantastic to me. I was treated really well. And I got to travel the world because it was one of those

jobs where I had to do everything. Everything. I mean, his wife. Did you just say you went from second assistant to VP of the entire company in four years? VP of the administration. It was a small company. So I don't want to make it. It wasn't like there was like a thousand employees. It was like a almost like a family style trade desk. A true private equity structure. I mean, maybe 18 employees, which was nice. It's actually part of the reason why I liked the idea of a small team because I saw it work.

Yeah, so it's curious, isn't it? So, yeah, Vice President of Administration and I didn't know, like I know the companies have presidents and vice presidents, like big corporations, but, you know, small companies with like 18, 20 people, do they have presidents and vice presidents?

But then she clarifies. She's, what is it, deputy vice president or something, of administration. So there's 18 persons. company has an administration department which has a president and a vice president. So that all, look, that all may be perfectly true. Or she is someone that chooses labels so as for the purpose of being self-aggrandizing and is puffing up that little story of going from

second assistant to vice president of administration in a small family investment firm. Yeah. And similarly, Justin alone, it's helpful. So she mentioned, you know, she got the travel award with us and she talks about the various adventures she had. She also mentions this. They also even put me through, went down to learn Spanish. I moved to Costa Rica for, was it a eight-week program? And you live with a family that doesn't speak any English because he had a wife that was

Spanish speaking. And so she hired a lot of Spanish staff. And I was like, well, I got to learn a language. I can't manage the staff if I don't know the language. And so because they traveled, you know, everyone's. goes to Montauk or the Hamptons for the summer. I was like, I just, I found a program. Can you pay for me to go down there?

I'll learn Spanish. And so I did that. You speak Spanish. Yeah, well, I'm now really, really rusty. But I did. I was fluent in Spanish. And I can understand Spanish, though. So, you know, again, there's always like this double thing because there,

she didn't say specifically she mastered Spanish in a week. Like she said, you know, I was fluent in Spanish. but the implication is always like, I went here, I mastered that. So you did an eight-week course and you became fluent in the language. And I'm sure if you were honest, you would say, well, you know, I practiced it after that and whatever. But it's kind of always the implication is something very special about her, right? Yeah, the implication is that she's amazing. And yeah, this is something that we've seen in so many of our other gurus, even with respect to languages.

It seems to be a thing. Not only talking about your IQ, but also this ability to just pick up lots of languages very quickly. We've heard that before. Yeah, that's right. Eric does it with Indonesian and a couple of other languages. And Gary, Stephen said it, just for two completely different figures. And she went to work for Vogue, by the way, for a little bit as an intern.

And that's another example that, you know, she was kind of in these left, called her species, right? And listen to how she describes her rule there. You'd be surprised to learn what that she did pretty well. Did she well? That was my glamorous idea with that I was going to go, moved to New York City, and I don't know, B. Carrie Bradshaw from Sex and the City, I don't know what my idea was.

It was in retrospect a little bit cartoonish. And then when I got there, I just culturally was like, yeah, I don't really want to do this. You know, this is not where I want to work. The girls were so vicious, so hungry. So, you know, and but I learned a lot. I mean, they would have fond memories of me. It worked my butt off.

And that was why I kind of graduated up to the magazines and was the head of the intern closet, so to speak, at Vogue and made great friends. So I've kind of, I've been a lot of places, really, when I think about it. See that. Again, she rocketed to be a sort of a slightly nebulous and vague title. head of the intern closet or something, but head of the intern closet. It could be reaching there a little bit. And they're all vicious.

They're all catty vicious, but they would love her. They'd all say she was great. They all have great memories of her. She made some great friends. So yeah, this is the shade you get from all the anecdotes, which is what a pure spirit. And what a talented woman, Candice, Iwens is. And if you don't actually, you know, if you're not skeptical, cynical, cynical, sons of bitches like you and me, Chris, and you just listen to her talk, she is charming.

Like, absolutely charming. Like, the way she talks about these things, it sort of has the impression of being, you know, good-humoured and self-effacing and light and, like, she gives. Reasonable. Yeah, reasonable. And she gives really good vibes as long as you don't. think about anything she said and dumb. Yeah. And speaking of which, Matt, listen to the way she introduces herself along those lines. Candice Owens, you're a political commentator, author, an independent journalist known for challenging mainstream narratives and tackling controversial issues.

Over the past decade, you've become one of the most influential voices in all of media, building a massive audience through your commentary and investigative reporting. Today, through your independent platform, you continue to cover politics, culture, and current events while questioning official narratives and sparking national debate. And most importantly, you're a Catholic. Most importantly, I'm a Catholic, a mother, a wife. That's right. Yeah, yeah. So I forgot Sean Ryan's introduction also.

Just, you know, you're a controversial trancever. Yeah, the usual puffery. And if you look, you know, like, so that kind of thing, you know, but first of all, I'm a mother, I'm a wife, I'm a Christian. You remember Al Robbins classic one of that? Which is like, I'm just a simple homespun, you know, self-help, multi-million. That's right. That's right. Now, and if you look at the comments underneath this particular YouTube video, and I'm sure it's the same on all the rest of hers, oh my God, does this shit work?

They love her. Like, basically the impression that I've been talking about there, that is eaten up with the spoon by the audience who are definitely responding to that thing that is being projected, especially to obviously a conservative audience. All that stuff is conservative. I mean, it works across the board, especially in America, but particularly for conservative audiences. Yes, and the host that she's talking to does a good. job, you know, you heard there the way that he frames things. But he also frames the criticism

that she receives, you know, like a bunch of things, you know, for example, she suggested that Hitler wouldn't have been a problem if he just kept himself concerned with like, you know, internal jury treatment in Germany. If Hitler just wanted to make Germany great and have things run well, okay, fine. The problem is that he wanted, he had dreams outside of Germany. He wanted to globalize. He wanted everybody to be German, everybody to be speaking German, everybody to look a different way. That's not to me. That's not nationalism. Right. You know, if you just restrain themselves to, you know, holocausting the Jewish population in Germany, it wouldn't have been a real major issue. But no, no, Chris, she brings issues,

sparks national debate on important issues such as whether or not and whether or not Bridget Macron is in fact a man. This is a debate that America needs to have. Yeah. Yes, that's quite right. That's quite right. But then, so this is another familiar guru response to receiving criticism. Just say context. And so a point arrived where, and in retrospect, it's interesting, somebody had pulled an old tape of me and presented it out of context of me and Charlie in London, where we were asked a question about nationalism. They stripped the question and they made it look like I was on stage preaching about Hitler, like, and saying, if Hitler just, just wanted to be in Germany, that'd be great. But what I was saying was, they said, doesn't nationalism feel like a dirty word?

Like, how can you say you're a nationalist? And I was like, Hitler wasn't a nationalist. You know, if Hitler was like, hey, I'm just, want to be in Germany and make America great, like, that wouldn't be problematic. He was a globalist, he had global aspirations. Long story short, they made this video go viral out of nowhere. And I always now go back to that, and I wonder who did that.

And suddenly, like, a Jewish group issued a thing saying, but I was, like, anti-Semitic. It was so crazy. And donors were calling him, telling him that, like, he needed to pull back away from me. It's so funny to think that this was another Zionist scandal. And at the same – and I was so shocked at this time because I had – I mean, I just grew up in a very Jewish – I had never been accused of being an anti-Semite. And I – This was way before. Oh, my gosh.

Before – I mean, like, and I was, like, genuinely hurt. And the way that they're sycophante interviewers, freem criticism. Candice, you faced intense public criticism, particularly accusations of disloyalty to the black community and the Christian community for holding independent views. How do you maintain your composure and stay grounded in who you are when those attacks get personal? You know, I don't know that I pay too much attention to the criticism that's lobbed at me anymore, only because it's constant. And if you, if I spent every day worried about what people, other people were thinking about me or allowing them to define who I am, I wouldn't get out of bed. And I've got four toddlers at home.

So I just shut that entire part of my life off. And people are very surprised by that. But it truly doesn't impact me. I know who I am. So I don't have to go to the internet to learn about who I am. You, you legit, it doesn't bother you at all. No. It genuinely doesn't bother me at all.

I believe that. Yeah, I believe that too. I believe that too. So because she is incredibly confident. Everything she says is with complete confidence. And I can't imagine her getting rattled and stuff because there is that special power in being so incredibly bullheaded or something. Oh, yeah. And it doesn't mean she doesn't react to criticism. Like she definitely does react to criticism, right? But it's just that she's absolutely certain. Whatever position she's taken is correct and whatever criticism she's receiving is unfair. That's like her North Star, right, is that she's always right, which is a common thing.

So you know, like Brett Weinstein and Joe Rogan and various others also take this pose where like, how do you respond to criticism? Oh, I don't look at it or it's, you know, it's all nonsense anyway. I know it's not, none of it is true. so I can just ignore it because I know none of it applies. And that's one of the superpowers of Gurudam is that you have no doubt that you're absolutely correct. And she recently, you know, had been shooting with Trump. And here's how she frames that.

It was, that was definitely a moment where I was going. This is, these is some strange enemies to have. Did you find humor in it? But genuinely at the time, there was just so much going on. I was in Italy. And my phone started blowing up. And I was so excited about the eve of my confirmation that, and I had just had this wonderful dinner with my priest. And I had a meeting with the Cardinal about the confirmation that I just turned my phone off because I didn't want to even let in whatever energy that was.

Nope, you're not ruining my day. And I was like, I felt like I was like on the eve of my wedding or something. and there was too much spiritual goodness that was surrounding me, I guess, is the best way to put it. We had planned that trip for a very long time for me to go to Italy and get confirmed, and I just wasn't going to allow that to be a memory. And so I just was like, I'll deal with that when I get back. And such a strange thing to be in a place where you're putting the president. I say it's on hold.

Everyone was the guest was waiting for a response. And I was like, I don't have time for this, said. That was it. It was, I don't have time for this. Yeah, so I think it was about this part in the interview where I started to develop a certain kind of wary respect for Candacehawens. Like I realized that she's not, she's very good at what she's doing, right? Because this is a potentially problematic thing, right?

As I said, Donald Trump is the center around which all of these gadflies orbit. And, you know, he said his usual horrible things about someone that gets on the wrong side of him, as she did. But the way she frames the story and the tone of voice in which she describes her reaction, like if you just read it on the surface, it comes across absolutely great. Right. She's focusing on what's important, right? She's going to get confirmed, religion, the priest, her family. And, you know, the internet's crazy, isn't it?

And all of this political stuff. Yeah. It's all nuts. You know, there's going to be horrible people out there saying, oh, just turn your phone off and think about your toddlers, ground yourself. and like she just presents incredibly well no matter what the topic is and that's game it's very clever yeah i will say that the that kind of shield drops a little bit as her conspiracies come more to the four but but certainly when she's presenting herself as the victim fecing you know unfair attacks and

smears from powerful people it's it is a very effective pose that she she she strikes and so many of them are so many of them joining the Catholic Reverend or the, you know, whatever particular branch of Christianity that they've decided to come to. So she is getting confirmed and it's just the religious shield. It's a very useful thing to invoke in conservative circles. It sure is. Now, as you say, that that pose of just being sweetness and light and wholesomeness. It does conflict with her main job, which is scurrilous accusations and conspiracy. There is in character assassinations of people and just inciting feuds. So as you say, that pose does get a little bit thin when she actually gets into the sorts of claims that she's making.

Yes, yes. And we will move to those very shortly, but I did notice, Matt, old enemy that haunts the crews. It's like their kryptonite. It travels around their ecosystems, causing them harm. And Candice Owens was afflicted by that villain. Taxic world. My toxic world, it's okay. If you're a progressive, if you're a progressive in America, your greatest hope at the moment is that toxic mold is going to take out the entire political opposition in that country because they've all got it. She's a toxic mold hipster. She's claiming she suffered from toxic mold like before it was, you know, a popular thing. So anyway, listen, listen to this. That photo was real. I shared it early on in politics to talk about, I went through a really

tough time when, what was it, 2015, I got sick from mold illness. And I never thought I was going to be the same person. It was a leak, an HVAC leak that happened in my building. And it, destroyed my insides. I mean, it started what's known as Candidiasis growth in my body. I had, I mean, overnight, I felt like my whole life was taken for me. I couldn't think. And if you don't know what toxic mold illness is, it's almost impossible to describe. But I had head to toe overnight eczema. I had never had eczema. Athletes foot. My eyes were red and just kept pussing. And I didn't know what it was. I didn't know what was happening, why it was happening. My hair fell out and in the scheme of everything that was going on, the worst part of it, forgetting the physical

and not recognizing yourself in the mirror, because I mean, I could share worst photos and he shared. I was like, if you want them all, this is actually, I look pretty good relative to what was going on, head to toe. But the worst part was my brain. The only way to describe it is you can't think. It's almost like being in a permanent, if you ever had like brain fog, imagine. Imagine like the most intense brain fog you could ever have, and it just physically exhausted me, so I was just in bed all day, every day. And the only way to beat back that sort of mold illness,

I mean, they can give you temporary pills, whatever, it's through diet, like the most regimented diet because sugar is what feeds it. And so it took me a year to, and I never thought I was going to be able to be myself again, and that was the hardest part, is not being able to think. Does sugar really feed a toxic bald infection? Well, Matt, you think?

How much the diet? Who would have thought, Matt, that a conservative would promote that they were afflicted by toxic world and they resolved it by going on a restrictive diet? That is, I mean,

how she came off with that? I've no idea. So there you go, Matt. Toxic World, like you said, the last hope of liberalism. Yes. I mean, I assume that at least some of this is grounded in some kind of actual events that happened.

Come on, she had an illness probably. It's unlikely that it's specifically due to mold. Apparently the thing with that, Chris, is that, you know, there's some grounds to it. She got into a legal case with her landlord. Didn't pay rent for a time being and sued the landlord and there was a counterclaim about the air conditioning being broken or whatever. So she did lose all of those proceedings. And in the end, she had to pay about $21,000 in backrange plus legal fees for the court case.

So it did it. The claims didn't work out back then. At least she said she was a hamster around the mold concern. So there you go. Yeah, I mean, it's not clear to what degree the claims of the mold illness might have played a role in attempting to win the court case. But whatever. Yeah. Yeah, well, that's the kind of thing they do, Matt.

Any time gurus talk about their health, you cannot trust their account. And she's talking there about Trump sharing a photo where she looked bad just to complete the picture. Yeah, I think, but I think this is all part of that self-nouration about one's own story, you know, overcoming the adversities. And, you know, like everyone's had bouts of illness, sometimes quite serious, afflicted either them or their family. I could regale the audience of the coding the gurus with various little scares and things that have happened. At the time, I wouldn't have said that were little, right? But that propensity to take those incidents and weave them into this self-serving kind of narrative, which they tend to do, yeah, I think that's another interesting aspect of it. A lot of it is about crafting a persona,

self-presentation to your audience about the kind of person. Without actually coming on saying, hey, by the way, I'm an absolutely fantastic person that is so good. I mean, they may say that, but it works better if you talk in a more natural way about the ways of which you've been wronged and also the trials and tribulations that you've overcome. Well, let's play a clip of Candace and see if she does that. So here we go. You seem fearless.

We're all here for a blip, and I think it's not about not having any fears, it's about what scares me more, right? What scares me more is considering the world that our children will inherit if we stay quiet, because we feel it right now. We feel the squeeze. We feel the evil. We feel the cloud. It's there. And you have a bunch of people who, whether it's for money or for fear, are allowing it to happen.

And there are so many historical lessons about what can happen to a country when good men do nothing. And so what scares me is thinking about what's going to be like in America when my children are my age because I was too scared. To say something when Charlie Kirk was publicly assassinated and the most powerful people in the country colluded to life. country colluded to lie about it. If Charlie Kirk was not safe in the United States of America,

nobody is. Nobody is. Do you feel this is your responsibility? To figure out what happened and to keep the investigation going. I don't know if it's like my, I don't know if responsibility would be the word that I would use. I just, I just know that it's a part of my journey. Moral grandstanding, Matt. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, on the Garometer for a reason. You know, like, they're always presenting it, that they're just concerned about their kids and their grandkids and the future.

It's not about them. It's, you know, they just have to do this to protect people. Yeah, yeah. So Brett and Eric Weinstein, of course, our go-to is for, you know, the perfect example of this. You know, they have the absolute best motivations. Why do they have this YouTube channel? Why do they have this podcast?

Why do they have sponsors? Why are they doing it on the talking circuit? Why are they doing any of these things? It's for the children. It's for the country. It's for the heart and soul of our great nation. It's for all the best things. And yeah, it's a Christ-like pose.

And people eat that shit up. I do eat that shit up. Well, with that clip as well, Matt, we've moved towards the Charlie Kirk conspiracies, right? You heard her mention there for anybody that lives under Iraq, Charlie Kirk was a turning point USA figure,

I believe the creator of that conservative movement, and he was assassinated. He was killed while at an event on camera, very gruesomely, horrible assassination. And Candice Owens, like all great conspiracy theorists, has a lot of questions, Matt.

She's got a lot of unanswered questions. What exactly has? happened there. Now, it looked like to most people that he was shot on camera and, you know, his neck exploded. He lost a lot of blood and he died very quickly, right, from blood loss or whatever the case might be. But that's what they wanted you to think. So let's hear some of her reasoning around the Charlie Kirk conspiracy because I think this is a great illustration of a whole litany of conspiratorial ideation

and the kind of tropes that you find in conspiracy communities. The varying stories that they've all told about what took place, why they were all then wearing scrubs, Frank Turek saying

that he was on the phone the whole time and didn't realize with his... Who's Frank Turek? Frank Turek was another one of the people that was in the car. Okay.

And he... He's former military. He was... there and jumped in the car with them. By the way, that's even weird. I don't know why he jumped in the car with him, to be to be honest with you. And he was at the hospital and he tells conflicting stories and says that they did perform CPR. It's all just very strange. It just seems like something, like why are all of your stories running into each other? How are those running into each other? What do they say? Well, some people are saying they did give them CPR. Some are saying they

didn't. Good question, Sean. Good question. One of the very theory. So you got to hear the kind of anomaly hunting just asking questions. Like there's a lot of things, Matt. A lot of people saying things. Sometimes eyewitnesses don't say the exact same thing. Like, how do we explain that? What's going on? It's all about strange, isn't it? Things don't quite add up, Chris. Things don't add up. And she's in great company, of course, because Brett Weinstein has got incredible theories about Charlie Kirk that he's talked about with Jimmy Dorr. Another amazing thinker. Yeah, but she's...

His was that it's drones. Drones. Yeah, killed with the drone. Yeah. The common denominator, it's not what it looked like it was. And the one thing that is funny here is, you know, she's questioning around the CPR. And now, if you saw the video, might, you would see

that there was an extreme amount of blood loss quite quickly. It looks like, you know, the shooter seems to have hit the target, like right in his neck. It's almost like a video game with the... But she wants to make a thing about, like, were they doing the right thing? Like, were they performing CPR enough?

And the military guy, even though he's ready to go along in general, he raises a point here that I think is, you know, a reasonable pushback. So the discrepancy between the people that are in the car doesn't really make sense. I mean, I don't know. Do you give CPR to somebody that's been shot in the fucking neck? Well, if you don't keep someone's heart going, it doesn't matter, right? Like, nothing else matters if your heart stops pumping. So, yeah, you would give CPR, I would imagine. You keep CPR going at all times. I'm certainly not a medical professional, but I do know that, like, if your heart stops, you're dead. So you've got to keep the heart going. And them not having the ambulance on standby. I'm not standing up.

I don't know if that's, I don't know if you would do CPR. What would be the point of, you know, if your heart's not going, your heart's not going. And I'm not even saying, and by the way, I'm not even saying that what was right or what was wrong to do. You're saying that stories are inconsistent. I'm saying the stories are not consistent. And that's what has been so troublesome for people that are investigating this. It's why do you guys all have different stories? Why are there so many lies that have since been unpacked that.

And initially they said a lot in the beginning. they've since, you know, pivoted on their stories quite a bit. Yeah. Yeah. So this is probably the, like this interview is fundamentally unqualified to do anything, except that his background in the military, I think, gives him some understanding of how to deal with gunshot wounds. That's why he's pushing back a little bit.

And that if you've lost a huge amount of blood, right, but there's probably not much that, you know, and if you can't put patch up. the big hole in the neck. She's right. You want to keep the heart beating, right? But I think his response is like, what are they going to do? That's right. That's right.

Like, we keep the heart beating to move the blood into the brain. But if there's a hole in the neck, anyway. So he raises the question. But you heard her, like, it's illustrative there that she's willing to kind of like move on. well, you know, whatever, you know, it's just, isn't it suspicious? The comments, my point isn't the specific about the CPR, right? It's just, why is there so many different stories? And like, this is the thing with conspiracy versus stuff.

Why are there different accounts and different recollections of a highly traumatic event that would have been huge panic and commotion and lots of chaotic elements with somebody dying? Why would people have not just a single account? And then when they do offer a single account or they offer an explanation that's repeated across sources, they're like, isn't it strange that they're all like stinging from the same sheet? Wouldn't you expect like some of them to say something different? So, yeah. Okay, so Chris, so, so Brett Weinstein's theory is that he was killed by a drone, presumably carrying a little explosive charge that alighted onto his knife. I thought it was just a bullet.

No, I thought he said it was old. Oh, the drone had like a mini cannon attached to it that fired a mini bullet. Yeah, okay, that's it. He actually dismissed the exploding mic theory. Oh, I see. Yeah, the exploding mic theory, that's the vanilla conspiracy theory. His is a drone with a little gun. But Candace, because I sort of lose the road when she's talking a conspiracy series.

I can't track what she's saying. Does she claim, yeah, is the same to do with an explosive charge hidden on? Well, let's see. Let's hear our experiment. The soil removed? Why the fuck would they have the soil? Well, their excuse is we were putting down pavers. So it is normal to remove soil to put down pavers.

But why were you putting down pavers? Why were you paving over the crime scene? And in that scenario, I think you normally do from somebody that is in that space, said that about eight inches you would remove so that you can install the pavers. They removed 10 inches of soil, and they had two separate people do it. So they had people working for the governments that removed the 10 inches. inches of soil and then the next day the pavers came in and put in the pavers. That's not normal. You have the same group of people that do both. So they wanted, they had the dirt removed first.

And so we'd have to imagine that that happened Saturday at the latest, right? And because then by Sunday morning, the guy who had to put together a rag tag team to do the paving, he did an interview and spoke about it and said he was told that the instructions were coming down from the governor of Utah and Cash Patel's office. The Plutthikins, Cash Patel. Probably a good guide to put on the soil. I'm, you know, I've taken a long time to get to a place where I wanted to put forth a theory on what happened that day. I think there is a lot of evidence that they would have found explosives, which if, I guess the way PETN is said is like, when do you guys say, pent?

Peton. Petten. I'm trying to learn all the inside terms and sound like I know what I'm talking about on all the military guys stuff. But if Petten was the explosive that was used, and I think there is a strong theory that should be explored, that a shape charge was used to kill him and that what killed him was on him. So she is going, not necessarily, Mike, she does highlight some inconsistency smart in the way that the mic, you know, appeared. But it was an explosive on him. And they had to remove the soil to remove the evidence. of that. I see. And normally they remove eight inches,

Matt, but they remove ten inches. That's suspicious. That's suspicious. And the plot thickens, right? Because the command to do that came down from on high from Cash Patel's office. That's right. Yes.

And so actually, she talks about the mic issue. So listen to this. See, we almost, we, I can't remember what this guy named, his name is but my editor you were just chatting with him he brought it to my attention he was chatting with this guy right after it happened so i guess almost a year ago and once i just never know what so many fucking people are trying to get clicks and shit you know what i'm like i don't think it adds up and he would describe you know how it how it was going to work or how it was supposedly worked

and yeah it was shaped charge inside the microphone right yeah and and They had all these videos that show the blast and everything, but I don't know what's AIM, what isn't. I don't fucking believe anything, unless it's literally right in front of my face, then I still don't believe most of it. But to have a, the thing that really got me was to have a microphone on a loose shirt

when he's up at a chair like moving around. It just- Mike on the inside, by the way. Mike on the inside? Yeah, the mic is on the microphone, which is totally senseless. Wait, was it? to his chest. What you see on the outside is the magnet that's holding the mic that's

on the inside, which like any person who mics you knows, you don't put the mic on the inside because you get the sound and they were putting it on the inside. He was wearing a mic on a shirt, right? And that's going to make the bristling sounds. And it was

he was facing the wrong way. And yeah, it's all starting to stack up. And this guy, this guy, you know, he's not sure, right? He's, he's a really skeptical guy. He doesn't believe any bullshit, right?

Like, he, he's looking at these videos on Instagram and people are telling them ideas, but he's not, you know. Yeah, he thinks for himself. He's a skeptical guy. He doesn't believe anything.

He doesn't believe anything. He can, well, it's right in front of his own eyes. And even then, probably not. So that's the safest thing to do. Just not believe anything. So, but look, I mean, there's conspiracy nonsense with all the little,

yeah, no, factoids and stuff. It's part of the course. All conspiracy theories look like this. Can I just check the grand schema of it, the grand shape of the conspiracy theory, is that the purportive shooter, Tyler Robinson, was a patsy. He wasn't a real shooter. There were other people at the scene who were playing these coordinated roles. And the motive was that Charlie Kirk was resisting Netanyahu and pro-Israel donor campaign, so donor pressure, and Turner. And Turner, turning point USA is already being captured by outside money, maybe Israeli money.

But then getting him out of the way, we'll clear the space for Erica Kirk to take over. Spoiler, Matt. Spoiler, what are you doing? You're like going for all of her. You're going for the slow reveal, were you? Well, I mean, but you're basically, yes, this is right. Okay, so let me fill in a couple of parts for there. So you mentioned that the Tyler person was a Patsy.

That's correct, Matt, yes. Who do you think is behind this? I don't think Tyler Robinson was there. You don't think he was there? I think he's a total Patsy. I think they get lookalikes and they got everybody wearing the same outfit. I think he played a role. And I believe that what he did was he picked up clothes and he dumped them behind the Dairy Queen.

I think he had a role. but I do not believe that Tyler Robinson is the person who was walking in that staircase. Okay, so you're right. Tyler Robinson, not the person that did the shooting. However, he did dress up and put on the disguise. So he is involved. He wasn't there, but he kind of went quite a long way to give the impression that he was there. That's how clever these conspiracies are, Chris.

is what they do. This is right. And his flatmate, Matt, there's also a conspiracy like him. And I feel confident stating that Tyler Robinson did not kill murder Charlie Kirk, whether or not he was an accessory to the crime. Do I believe he was at Dairy Queen dropping off clothes? Yeah. How did he get mixed up in that?

I don't know. Maybe he was blackmailed. Maybe he got involved in some weird stuff online. That's the easiest way for the Fed's the black. mail someone. I think his roommate is a federal asset, Lance Twiggs. Why do you think that? Because the police didn't even question him, which is bonkers. Yeah, Lance Twiggs. I spoke to Lance Twiggs, his family, and they think he's involved. And they don't understand why the police just sat him down for a few hours and then let him go.

Right. So apparently Twiggs gave a recorded interview to prosecutors. but only one Matt only one or two is that is that enough there should have been there should have been at least four otherwise it's just suspicious

that you think and you mentioned Netanyahu and Israel and yes of course they're involved Matt because they're involved in literally everything that she talks about

in this, but yes, it connects to Israel and her. Do you think he was killed because he was going against Israel? 1,000 percent. Why him? Lots. You go against Israel. Why not you? Well, I think.

Why are you still here? I think if Andrew Colbert is to be believed, he told me it was supposed to be me, which was an interesting thing to say. What? Andrew Colvett said to me a few days after the assassination. And at the moment, I just took it as poorly expressed grief, you know, because I didn't find Andrew to be suspicious because I just didn't, my mind wasn't there. But he said to me on the phone, it was supposed to be you, verbatim. Are you serious?

But I thought that was just, he was crying, I was crying. He legitimately said it was supposed to be you. It was supposed to be you. So I have questions about that now. given everything that happened in the lead up to that. I think Charlie, I think Charlie knew something. Well, now, Matt, we heard this, you know, the hard-bitten skepticism of Sean Ryan. You know, he doesn't accept things, Matt, just when he comes across them, right?

He's kind of like, he's this guy that doesn't believe anything unless he sees it with his own eyes, except Candace's to him that she was the actual, she was told she's the actual target. And he's like, you're what? What? What the hell? So it is very Eric Weinstein and just wanting to, you know, insert himself into the thing. Later on, you're here.

So many people have the most amazing relationships, spiritual relationships to Charlie Kirk after his death. And Candace Siamonds is certainly one of them. But yeah, the scenario here is that Mossad, perhaps, really keen to rub out Kandah, ones. Do you think Israel's in on the act? Yes. Me too. I think you should take the Mossad at their word when they say we are the directors, the actors, we can infiltrate any organization, any company, or the script writers. I believe that. That's a 60 Minutes interview, right?

I don't know. The stars didn't the line. Couldn't get to a, the bomb didn't go off. So I went, oh, we'll stuff it. I guess we'll take out Charlie Kirk instead then. Is that, what's the idea? I mean, we need to, you know, we need to look at some of the stuff around Erica. That needs to come up. But there's a couple of things that you might have missed. So you're right, you know, in what you described. This is being masterminded by Israel. But it kind of goes a little bit more deep than that.

It was easy for evil to control the world when we were dumb and stupid. and thought it was impossible, right? Things, some of these conspiracies. I mean, the fact that we are having real discussions about Freemasonry, about the occult, about true demons, about what demonic possession is that you can sit here across from Father Ripperger. And I read the comments, and that was a transformative episode,

by the way. But to see all the comments of like, I need to go to church now, this episode made me want to go to church, not... This guy's crazy. What's he on? The Exorcist is just a movie, just a Hollywood movie. That's uplifting.

I think that's uplifting. And it had to happen. I think we as a society needed shock treatment. And Charlie's death was shocking in so many ways, not just the death, the administration's reaction to it. his wife there were so many shock points it shocked the senses in so many ways it made us consider things

that were so beyond the realm of what we I think could have ever thought feasible I think his assassination had to be live streamed and people who are evil some ritual realistic thing or

yeah so for two minutes the people who orchestrated it was assassination, it was ritualistic. I think that they wanted it to be publicized in that way because they thought they were then going to harness our emotion from having seen it to their benefit. And what it did was it certainly did harness emotion, but it was not to their benefit. So my, did you know, it's satanic demons. Yeah, I thought it was just more sad, you know, But it's deeper than that, isn't it? Yeah, well, you know, every cloud has a silver lining.

And yes, the assassination of Charlie Kirk was bad. But the silver lining is that it's working a lot of us up to the forces of evil and demonic things at play. And where our eyes are open now, we see what's going on. I think this could be related to this conversion to Catholicism, Chris, because I have read Hey, leave our side of it. No, no, don't worry, you guys are the good guys.

The bad guys. I mean, I thought the bad guys were mainly the Jews, but actually it's the Freemasons. Well, they, yeah, are each old enemy. They're always trying to get you. You knew they were being involved. I'm glad the demons showed up. Jonathan Peugeot must have been happy at that point.

Like, yay. Yay, demon. That's right. I mean, so here we go now. This is, so everything can be both. So there's both this. Like actually, this reminds us of the Chinese standing guy. Zhang, Professor Zhang.

Jain. Yeah. So you have the mundane conspiracy theories, just the ones involving, you know, world spanning. Just the usual anti-Semitic ones. The usual anti-Semitic world-spanning kind of networks of secret power. And then there's the spiritual realm over the top of them. this. And this is where Freemasonry and maybe the Jews, we can't say for sure. But, you know, for them, they don't just want Charlie Kirk dead because he's obviously a beacon of light and

truth and love. But it has to be done as like a satanic ritual, has to be performed in public so as to have the maximum spiritual effect. It goes a little bit deeper than this. It goes a bit more. There's more things connected in. So, okay, yes, you've got, you know, you've got the contours, right? So let's think a bit more about where they want to channel this energy. The emotional reaction that happened, if they could have controlled it and built a conduit for it, would have been amazing if they could have just channeled it as they wanted to, literally channeling energy, a form of witchcraft, right?

And they wanted to channel that energy toward Erica, who I am I honest to God perspective, I believe she is a tried and true psychopath, truly. And I'm not saying that to be theatrical. I'm, I'm not trying to be hyperbolic. I mean, like, clinical psychopath. I, and I think that is what has shocked them is that they couldn't do it. And so Charlie's death contributed to an awakening. And I have to keep that perspective that, you know.

Keep going. Yeah. But they didn't even look into his own assassination attempt. Trump. Yeah. Butler. There's a reason for that. They fucking blocked the investigation.

Yeah. So Sean Ryan rejecting a point here. You know, Trump's assassination. They didn't even look into that. And, you know, they wanted to channel the energy. So Candice Owen's thing now is that it is, you know, Israel and Mossad and stuff. But like, they are channeling the dark energies via, you know, demon witchcraft power. And you're going to imitate Erica, who she doesn't like.

And presumably par her up. But it kind of failed because the energy got reoriented by Candice and others. right into their movement. But you heard that they didn't look into Trump's assassination. And that's odd too. And you might think, well, Candice Owens, you know, she just heard that. So that will be news to her. And actually, she already knows about the connection there.

I covered that recently on my show. And there is a, it should be reopened. and I think it was a successful assassination of Corey Comparatore. Was that the firefighter? I met his daughter. Did you? The inauguration that I never showed a fucking one to. Yeah.

Well, they don't believe the story. They are not satisfied. His family is not satisfied at the investigation. And there was a strange set of circumstances of his best friend from high school. school having died a couple of years earlier from a plausibly P.E.T.N. Explosive. And I covered that recently. From a petting explosive? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. He worked with them. And I covered it recently on my show. The firefighter that was killed worked at the petting plant? His best friend died a couple of years earlier and worked at,

basically worked, he was a supervisor at a company that dealt with petting explosives because they perforated the wells for oil and gas companies, which requires the petting explosive. He died in a mysterious set of circumstances in his backyard where he was burning stuff in a barrel and something exploded and ironically hit his neck

and he died instantly. The conspiracy goes deeper, Matt. Wow, what do you think that's pretty amazing? So does that, is she implying that the assassination attempt on Trump was not actually, he wasn't aiming for Trump? He hit his target. He hit the firefighter. His friend also died a few years previously.

And his work involves pedant, this explosive, which also could be involved in Charlie Kirk's. thing. It's all very, wow. So that's, but this is used to me. This is all, this is all huge of true. Like, I, there's a, did you ever watch Pierce Balls where they were doing, you know, the Star Wars party where they were doing the thing where the Darth Helmut guy says, before we fight, you know, I want you to know, he says, I am your followers, brother's second cousin twice from him. And then what does that make us? Absolutely nothing. Right. And, Here, it's not even that the guy Corey, that he worked at a petting plant or whatever.

Right. It's his best friend from high school died a few years previously. And the guy says, so he worked at a patent patent. He said, he was a supervisor at a company that dealt with patent. Because they perforated. the wells for oil and gas companies. So the actual connection is, the guy that was shot,

his friend died and conceivably worked at a company that had some connection with Petten for some of their projects. And that meant he had to be taken out, right? Because that guy died. He blew himself up with Petten explosives or whatever. And then Corey has to be taken out.

to be taken out in advance. Well, I don't think, I don't think it's clear that he died from a petten explosion, right? He died in mysterious circumstances burning things in his backyard. But it could have been patent, Matt. Yeah, I see. And Penn and is connected because even though there's no evidence, like, am I right in thinking that the only thing, like, it's only her saying that

Petten, it was to blow up Charlie Kirk. like okay right all right wow yeah that is and the thing is each step along the way as they're doing this

you know you can hear him saying interesting so he was like working at a patent factory right and again just a reminder this guy Matt he doesn't swallow anything right he is the kind of critical

you know people bring things down there and he's like skeptical guy he calls bullshit Yeah. Yeah. He doesn't buy things on the first pass and yeah, so okay, that's a lot of questions.

Let's see where they go with this. There's a lot of questions about you know, shortly after Corey died, Israel did their beeper pet and explosive attack within like two months. It was very quickly. That's weird.

All of the stuff could be considered conspiracy, but I think what adds weight to conspiracies are a lack of answers. When there's a lack of answers, conspiracies become weighted. And you can't tell me that it's normal for a man to survive an assassination attempt and shut down the investigation into his own assassination attempt. That doesn't make sense. Trump can't make that make sense. Do you think he knows? That's why he's blocking the investigation. Is it him blocking it or is it the FBI?

Well, if Tucker is to be believed, you can decide whether you believe Tucker or whether you believe Dan Bongino, but I'm going to go with Tucker Carlson. Yeah, I'll go with Tucker on that. I'm going to go with Tucker and Dan's reaction to what Tucker said was very strange.

Yeah, so anyway. Israel came back when Israel got back. I mean, it's kind of funny, isn't it? How it goes, like, you know, it's demons and it's a public ritual, and then it, oh, but it connects in to this other conspiracy and then it's tied

into their little rivalries and then it's Israel again right? No, I don't get me wrong it is all about demonic forces it is all a battle happening on the spiritual plane. It does involve these evil devil worshipers like

Freemasons is on but it's not anti-Semitism we're talking Israel here right remember this is the country in Mossad and Netanyahu and stuff like that Don't let the religious, you know, spiritual stuff lead you Australia there. Okay, so, yeah, I think people are getting a good sense of how conspiracy theories work. I mean, they're all like this, aren't they?

Like, structurally, they all involve this kind of thing. Yes, they do. And I'll go back to a clip where it, like, before we get it, before we got the here, where we are now, right? The groundwork needed to be later. At the beginning, it was a much more grounded. you know, here's some details from the murder that don't add up. Now, we're fully in the like, changosphere, right?

Like ping-ponging around between demons and Israel and wherever. But just to make your point, crystal clear, ma, that, oh, this is good old-fashioned anti-semitism, is at the heart of it. Like, here's just one of many, many clips that I have that illustrate this. And I think about when I hear those words, Charlie in his life and how I think it became an Israeli Truman show, but similar for Trump. Everyone around him is just working for a higher boss, and it's the Rothschilds, and it's Israel. So all of that is performative.

I mean, I couldn't be motivated to vote for midterms. Yeah, me neither. Especially after what we saw happen with Thomas Massey, where they're just so in our face about it now, where they're like, we don't like you. If you have a point against Israel, we'll spend. That's the only thing I can't really put to. in my head is we see this act. We see all of a sudden everybody's a tough guy against Israel. Like, oh, right, okay. Right around the corner from midterms. But I also don't really believe in the

election system because of all kinds of shit we've seen. Spencer Pratt's race, probably the most recent one, Massey's race. So if the elections are phony, then why do they give a shit about the act. Because the illusion matters. Why does it matter? Because they need, think about if truly tomorrow, they came out and said, your vote doesn't mean anything. We've been running the election since the beginning of time. We kill people in broad daylight. Yeah, we did JFK.

We did Charlie in. And we're going to keep doing whatever the hell we want. So, F you. Yeah, yeah. I mean, look, this is interesting because I think there's like a subtle thing about understanding how conspiracy theories work here. Because you've got these two layers, right? You've got the real world layer or the mundane world where you have exploding microphones and drones and, you know, fake doubles and, you know, that sort of conspiratorial stuff. But all of that kind of conspiracy kind of raises all these further questions.

Like about, okay, well, what's the motive and what's the mechanism and who ordered it and who paid and who recruited them and what's the chain of events, all of these details. But if you shift it up to, well, actually, this was an act of a blood sacrifice and a spell where the broadcast was actually part of a dark ritual, you know, because maintaining the illusion is all a part of how these demonic forces control us, then it kind of shuts down all those other questions. That's kind of of the deep reason why all of these seemingly crazy things are happening because it's demons. Demons do a lot of heavy lifting. They do.

It's very inconsistent because they can go that they don't even need to care, Matt. You know, they don't like, they just, they control everyone, they tell everyone they're going to kill it. And then, but they also have to convince everyone that it's not them. And, but they have to do a public ritual to harness then. So like, they're constantly having to reveal their cards and hide them. and reveal them, and it just depends on what suits the particular argument that you want to make in that moment. And she talks about, you know, an eternal evil since the beginning of time.

But she's talking about Israel. Yeah, yeah. She's called the Star of David and a cult symbol. She's described Israel as in, you know, and the Masonic track and the Jewish track. They're two sides of the same coin, right? These are the anti-god forces in the world. Yeah, so you, like you said, you have the kind of flip between those two levels. You also have the fact that, like, that's the political word, Matt. She also talks about, you know, the Jews, as you might imagine, they control the media. You know, the biggest, I think the biggest issue that we have right now in America, without question, is Israel. Israel.

Mm-hmm. And the satanic people who support what they're doing. the bloodthirst, the control, they behave like a mafia. And I'm talking specifically about Zionists. And sometimes people will say, when you say Zionists, you meet Jews. I want to be very clear, the Judeo Christians can be some of the most toxic gang-like people who are part of the same apparatus. So you actually can't isolate it. But I have found, which has been the experience, I think, of a lot of people, especially over the last year, this is a gang.

This is a mafia. This is not normal. What they did, the pressure they put. under what they did to me, what they're currently doing to Megan Kelly. I mean, Megan Kelly, I think is probably the greatest example. What did Megan Kelly do? Like, Megan Kelly was like, I'm a Zionist, and they were like, we don't care. You say something about Tucker Carlson right now, or we will destroy you. That's a mafia. And you? Yeah, and me. That's a mafia. That's a, that is, you are with us or you are against us. And I faced that, obviously, in my own life and saw that. And I

called it out for what it is. And we, it's, by the way, we're late to the party. Michael Jackson was trying to say what it was. Kanye West was trying to say what it was. They lived through this mafia. And finally, we have people understanding that. I think when you're reaching to Kanye West as a voice of truth. But blood, thirsting for blood, Chris. That was the phrase there that stood out to me. Yeah, and demons.

demons and satanic people who supported this mafia the Zionist mafia there was also that point I saw your expression but go the same as mine as she she wanted to do

I think the usual disclaimer of like I'm talking about Zionists not you know people say I'm besmirching all Jews but no but she kind of got lost at the sauce and ended up saying that Judeo Christians can be some of the most toxic gang

like people and they're part of the same apparatus who can't isolate it. So she's kind of like she didn't at all. The claim that she's tardishy culture. She actually was like, yeah, it's actually bigger. It's like Jews and some Judeo-Christian people as well. So like they're all. Yeah. Except for her particular sect.

So that's not really. Yeah. Yeah. It didn't quite work. It's the Jews and their supervisors. Let's be clear. Yeah. So look, this is obviously.

lay it on, like there is, there's obviously a great deal legitimate difference of opinion, shall we say, the United States about, you know, how much support should they give to Israel, how much should Israel be blamed for Palestine, you know, how much do you support Palestinians versus Israel, that kind of thing, right? So that is a definite wedge issue. Yes. In within, it's within Democratic Party, but also within conservative circles as well. And you have people like Cambysolans on one side and, you know, other people, like, I don't know, Ben Shapiro or whatever, on the other side. So there's a real policy,

politics difference there. But the difference with Candice is that, you know, she'll move around from criticizing the Israeli military to then talking about a sinister ring of Jews in Hollywood controlling everyone, paying everyone to being like a rabbi being drunk on Christian blood. And, you know, I think you have to recognize that, like, you know, have all the criticisms you want of, you know, the foreign policy of the United States and their involvement with Israel and the conflict in Gaza, right? If you can't recognize this for rank anti-Semitism, God help you, right? Like, then I'm sorry, but you might actually have anti-Semitic Syphibfifis because you don't have to do this in order to criticize Israel. or their foreign policy. What she's doing is exactly the kind of protocols

of the elders of Zion style, anti-Semitism. And that's why when you see people like Anna Kasparian doing similar things, cleaning the Jews knew about 9-11, right, and all like that kind of stuff, that is anti-Semitic, regardless of whether they have political positions, which have legitimate criticisms of like the state of Israel or America's involvement in Israel's conflicts, right?

Yes, you can have. of those, you don't have to do what is going on here. And this is exactly, you know, the kind of thing that I saw for ages in all conspiracy communities, including Alex Jones and Info Wars, always lurking in the background, are these old conspiracies around Jews and the occult and Satanists and so on. And they're always there, right? And the differences like Satanists are a tiny, tiny group, right? And they're generally not a real threat. You know, you have the modern instantiation of sickness, but they were an imagined population for most of history.

There weren't really these huge green days of like secret devil worshippers, but there really were Jews in history. And they really faced pogroms and stuff because of often being maligned like this. So it's really clear that that's what this lineage is in. And it isn't just deriving, you know, from the foreign policy concerns. I know you're not saying that, but I've just said,

surely people to stop that. Because it's not subtle. No, no, it's not subtle. So I don't, I think, I think, I think it's clear. Okay, well, so where are we? Where have we gotten to? We've gotten demons. We've got exploding mics.

We've got all sorts of things going on. I've lost track. Well, we do. We do. And, you know, okay, I'll bring it back to reality, Matt. at the ground level. Before we got into that flight of fantasy,

when you tried to summarize her conspiracy, right, it's your fault that we went to this flight of fantasy. Where were we? And that's where we'll have to cut it for today, Matt. We'll leave people a state of suspense.

They've seen some of the muntops that we're arriving at. There's still a little bit of material to dig through in part two. But yeah, so People understand. There's too many high-level ideas flying at us to deal with in just one show. Candice deserves more. She deserves a second episode. That's right. We haven't even begun to outline our theory of Kansas.

It's like Zhang and Candice, you know, in this part two, we're going to connect that the fucking quantum physics and Brazilian mold people and all sorts of things. We need to learn about this terrible woman, Erica Kirk. Oh, God. Yes, I forget. We haven't even played those clips yet. And don't worry, there's many more clips about how Jews are the ultimate evil in the world. We didn't exhaust those, not even by half. But yeah, so if you've enjoyed this, dives into Candace Owens. Come back and join us for Part 2. Please do. See you.