Decoding the Gurus - Supplementary Material 30: Decoding Irish Stew, Owl Hate, and Hypothetical Avoidance

Episode Date: June 1, 2025

Prepare for a hearty mix of culinary tips, avoidance of hypothetical scenarios, and the usual guru grievances. Will Jordan Peterson ever admit he's a Christian? Is it ever truly possible to understand Sam Harris AND still disagree with him? And where does Joe Rogan's primal hate for owls come in? Tune in for at least some of the answers to these pressing questions in this bubbling broth of an episode.Supplementary Material 3000:00 Introduction and Culinary Corner12:29 The Buddhism Book cometh14:09 Joe Rogan on Astrology25:22 Rogan's Christian Conversion?32:18 Rogan on Owls...43:09 Jordan Peterson vs 20 Atheists48:55 Is JBP a Christian?54:34 It depends what you mean by believe...01:00:22 Jordan Peterson vs. hypotheticals01:13:54 Hancock Orbiters continue to be terrible01:19:58 Sam Harris' Business Manager is kinda bad01:26:22 Sam is being misinterpreted again01:35:11 The Fundamentalist Impulse01:38:09 Post-Debate Weinstein Activity01:40:32 Sam Harris is still mad with Ezra Klein01:48:39 OutroThe full episode is available for Patreon subscribers (1hr 49 mins).Join us at: https://www.patreon.com/DecodingTheGurusSources- A good Irish Stew recipe- The Buddhism Book!- Joe Rogan Experience #2323 - Guy Fieri- Jubilee: Jordan Peterson vs 20 Atheists | Surrounded- Dan Richards' charming tweet to Flint- Professor Dave: Dan Richards is a Pointless Troll- "More From Sam": Religion, Deportations, Douglas Murray vs. Rogan, & Bill Maher's Dinner with Trump- “More From Sam”: Trump & Israel, Corruption, Free Speech Violations, the Democrats, & Ezra Klein- Sam Harris' Substack: What Whataboutery?- Sam and Ezra's email exchange- Vox: Charles Murray is once again peddling junk science about race and IQ. Podcaster and author Sam Harris is the latest to fall for it.

Music Hello and welcome to Decoding the Guru's supplementary material. This is the companion relaxed podcast, the big brother podcast of the actual decodings here. It's more relaxed. It's more of a chilled out atmosphere. I'm Chris Gavna, Irish in Japan, Northern Irish, if you like, in Japan. And he's Matthew Brown, psychologist of alleged Irish descent, currently based in Australia. I have the documents. I have the documents. I have the documents. Did they have like a shamrock stamp on

them? Or just like the imprint of a potato rolled over with ink? Yep, great big step with a potato, certified Irish. Yep. That's pretty good. Well yeah, yeah now we've got another, you know, hot steaming plate of supplementary materials, fresh off the stove. Haven't we? And you know what else is fresh off the stove, Chris? Oh, what else? What else? You already know, cause you've been talking to me about it. The Irish stew. I'm cooking Irish stew at the moment. I just finished. He had to wait. Chris was very patient. He said, Matt, Matt,

we've got to record the supplementary materials. I said, no, Chris. I have to finish the Irish stew. I said, no problem. That's fine. Go. That's it. That's all right.

Family members die or that kind of thing. No, we've got to record. But you're going to cook Irish stew? No, I understand. I understand. Everything else you don't understand. Much less tolerance. But I understand. Everything else you don't understand. Much less tolerant of. But you know, I checked it out with you.

I got confirmation from you that all my steps were correct. And I think, you know, sometimes when we talk about stuff, we are at loggerheads, consciousness, for instance, we get ourselves tied up in little lots. But I feel like you generally approved of my process. Your ingredient suggested that this was S tiertier Irish stew that you're working on. You've even located parsnips in Australia, which parsnips are hard to come by in Japan. I can't use them in my stew because I can never find them. But parsnips and fresh parsley,

this is pretty good, Matt. You know, I approve. Yeah, parsnips are like those, one of these old timey vegetables that has fallen out of favor. Hey. I feel like because the flavor is quite clean or earthy,

I think that's the way people describe those kinds of vegetables. But because they're actually not used so much, it makes like an interesting flavor. Cause you're like, oh yeah, there's not much parsnip in other dishes these days. So it adds a certain je ne sais quoi, you know, I think so. Yeah, I think so. So let's see.

What have I got? I got like a kilogram of chuck steak. I brown that, nice and browned, take it out. I've got my onions. I've got my leek. I got my locally sourced garlic. I mean, I bought it from the stores where we're driving home. I'm these. That's locally sourced. Basically, most of my food is locally sourced because I live in a farming area. So it's all grown down the road.

What else have we got in it? Carrots. I got. Carrots good. Yeah, now I think you did raise an eyebrow at the Swiss brown mushrooms, didn't you? I did, yeah. Yeah, that's a.

But it's OK. I'll lie. Mushrooms, a little bit fancy. It's it's a lie. It's a yeah. So they they can probably grow mushrooms. This is like the landed gentry version of our issue, not the bulk. Yeah, that's right.

Like, I mean, we're we are adding some spices as well, as you pointed out. Basel probably not. I was suspicious. The basic of Irish ingredients. I'd like to fact check this with other Irish people. Chris recommended basil. Basil on time. Basil on time. It should be there. Yeah. I do have the fresh thyme. I do have the fresh parsley. Bay leaves. Oh, shit. I forgot the bay leaves.

Okay. No, they're not. No, shit, I forgot the bay leaves. OK. Oh, they're not. No, it's important. No, no, pause, pause. OK, OK, go ahead. Go ahead, I'll pause. OK, that was important. That was worth pausing.

You went to that at the end. That's good. But due to the magic of podcasting, it just felt like not a second past for the listener. No, or you're just really fast. Yeah. Chris, I you're just really fast. Chris, I just did it impatiently while I went and did that. Okay. So they're in, they're in.

Obviously a great big tin of Guinness, naturally. Yep. You've got Guinness, red wine. You got red wine. Beef stock. Not just any red wine, but red wine that has been finished in Irish whiskey barrels. I don't know why you'd want that. But like, it's, I guess that's okay. Yeah, that's adding up like 10% extra Irishness. Red wine finished in whiskey barrels. Irish whiskey barrels, not just normal.

No, Irish whiskey barrels. I'm actually drinking a little bit of it now. And I'm not getting much Irish whiskey barrels. I know. I trust them. Obviously potatoes, a lot of potatoes. Good, yep, you gotta have those in there. The number one crucial ingredient next to the meat. Yep.

Carrots. And anything I'm forgetting? Anything else? I think that's most of the ingredients that I am recalling. Yeah. I am putting cabbage in as well. That's right. Cabbage as well.

Don't know if you should do that, but that's OK. You can do that if you must. And you've got bread, kind of weedy style bread on the side. That's good. I also I give Matt my secret tip for making very nice roast potatoes. Now, obviously, roast potatoes with our stew might be a bit of overkill. But just just, you know, our listeners, Matt, since we're on this little segment, this is Food Corner.

And I will say you want to make good roast potatoes. You parboil the potatoes for like 15 minutes, put them in hot water, salt, and then you put them in the colander. Is that what you call that thing? Like a sieve, right? And you shape them around and you rough. Everyone knows that, but not everyone knows sprinkle some cornstarch on top of those before you put them in the oven. Then that will turn out very good. Add rosemary as well. Bingo bango.

Lovely rose potatoes. And so look at that, Matt. You're you are, I mean, forget about the document. Your recipe alone suggests that you're an honorary Irish person. Even if I didn't have a biological legacy. Yeah, that's right. But I do. So I know that's clear. You do. You do. I do. Yeah. And let nobody else say otherwise. Okay.

Now I did. I have got a couple of secret ingredients, a couple of special things. I don't know if you're going to agree with this. It might be too much flavor for you people are used to. Oh, tomato paste. We forgot to say tomato paste. You should have tomato paste. That's important. I actually forgot.

I forgot to put the tomato paste in. Shit. Okay, we have to pause it again. We have to pause. I'll be gone. I'll be gone. I'm going to go to get a... Good thing that we talked about this, Mark.

Otherwise, you know, this wouldn't have turned out as well. So I would have been really upset. Forget it. I hate it when I forget to put things in. I actually couldn't find any tomato paste in a hurry. I put in some tin tomatoes, crushed tomatoes. That's probably alright. I had half a tin left over. It's okay, isn't it? I don't like tomatoes, as you know, in general, Matt, but I'll deal with them in Aris Stew.

So however you get your tomato sauce, I don't care. You gotta put it in. You gotta have some part of tomato in there. That's the deal with the devil for Aris Stew. You can't taste the tomatoes. Now this is the controversial bit. Worcestershire sauce, Chris. Is this the same thing as Worcestershire sauce? I don't know. Maybe. Okay, because if so, this is something that I add. So it's okay. But it's only like a spoonful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just a dash.

It's just a dash. I've actually got access to this really, really good Worcestershire sauce. Again, locally made, a velvety, sweet, spicy sauce with a touch of warmth. It is a hundred times better than the normal stuff you get in the supermarket. It's called well-loved Worcestershire sauce, WWS. If you can get your hands on it, I recommend it. It's so much better. And okay, so you're fine with that. You're cool. I'm fine with that. I'm done with that. All right. The other thing, this puts my stamp on it, right? This is like a dog doing a wee on a tree. Lovely imagery for your story, yes.

tree. Lovely imagery for your story. Yes. Spoonful of Vegemite Chris. The Australian connection. No, no. Victor, Victor, your Irish honorary citizenship has been revoked. That's not allowed. You Australians and your Vegemite. That's terrible. That's like English people putting mormite in. Why would they do that, Matt? It's good. You don't understand. It's like how with chili con carne, you know, you put a little bit of dark chocolate in there. You can't taste it. You don't know it's there, but subconsciously, subliminally,

it's permeating the back of your brain and titillating it. Well, we'll see. We'll see. This might be a little bit like the Guinness, though. I think the Guinness does flavor fingers are quite a fair bet. And like if it's not there, would you notice? Because a lot of it evaporates, you know, and I don't know. But, you know, as it's tonight, I will say that this is a better cooking corner than any of the recipes that I heard in that God-forsaken cod book.

These are actually useful. I might put up for the Patreon people my Irish Jew recipe. Or you can put up yours. We can have dueling. Well, our recipes are very similar to those. So there's not really much to it. One has vegimited it. That's pretty much the deal.

Yeah, that's it. A lot of that is like the optional extra. Yeah. Not everything has to be a competition, right? We can collaborate in peace sometimes. So, you know, some people might, they might say, is 10 minutes on our history too much? Is that too much time? Is that an indulgence?

And I say, this is supplementary materials, bitch. We're allowed to do what we want to do it here. That's the deal. That was the bargain. Okay. Under the coding, you know, we're regimented. We don't talk that much. The intro segments are basically gone.

Here we're free. We can let our freak flag flow. Fly. Yes. Fly or flow. That's just how freaky I am. And I use the wrong verbs. Yeah.

Well, we can maybe do another spin off thing. We'll do the cooking corner. We'll just do two recipes, do cooking. I think it'll be a lot more contributions from you than me if we do that. But yeah, that could be a gimmick. That could be a gimmick. There was a show here in Australia called the cook and the chef. And the gimmick was that one of them was cook very good home cook, but the

other one was like a professional chef and they do things differently. And that's all very cool. And our shtick could be like each week I cook something different and exotic and interesting with all kinds of different spices and flavors and you cook Irish stew the same way every week. With different types of potatoes. Yeah, that would, that would be a good gimmick. How long would that last? The same way every week with different types of potatoes. Yeah, that would, that would be a good gimmick. How long would that last?

You know, I will say my so thematically linking into the other things we cover in supplementary material, you know, the Buddhism book one, as I announced last time, Patreon people have been reading it including Badstadt, Stan Gilbert, he started and he was the same as you saying oh this is a big long book on Buddhist history oh I don't want to read this blah blah blah and then he read a bit of it and he said Michael how little I knew about Buddhism I'm really ashamed at my lack of knowledge and it's receiving reviews from the Patreon. So I'm looking forward to it. That's all I want to say is just like I've listened to about half of it now and it's great. Good job. My suggestion. Very good.

I may make a start on it today. I may. Oh, that's good. That's good. The first chapter is the longest. But then look, after you get through that, it's breeze. It's a breeze. Okay. Well, it can't be worse than COD. That's for sure.

That's also commented when we released the thing on the Sean Carroll, Eric Weinstein debate. He said, oh yeah, that's right. Now. Yes. He said, I can't believe you guys stoop so low as to cover this drama. Yeah, I know't believe you guys stoop so low as to cover this drama. Yeah, I know. Thanks, Dan. Funny, funny little guy, Dan.

So yes, a good follow on Twitter. Somebody who's always providing the clips. You might even have one of two clips taken from him today to play. So why don't we get into it, Mal? Why don't we get into it? Take us through it, Chris. Take us through it. What's been going on? What are the drugs? Well, well, so have you heard about this guy, Joe Rogan? Ever

heard about him? Oh, he's got a podcast, hasn't he? He's got a little thing. He's got a podcast. Just a casual thing. Just a guy, you know. He's just a comedian, Matt. You know, he's just a normal guy. He doesn't have any biases. He just shoots the shit. He's a moron.

He's got an open mind and he's just eager to learn. That's the thing. Yeah. So he talks about lots of different topics. And I thought it might be good just to play a couple of recent clips where he's talking about different things. So we can get more insight into how Joe's mind works and his standards of evidence and whatnot. So first up, here's a clip of him discussing astrology. Joe Rogan on astrology. What does he think about astrology?

I think the newspaper version of the horoscope is obviously nonsense, at least partially. I shouldn't even say obviously. But I think, I have not studied this, and I'm not committed to this, but I do think the origins, the original origins of astrology were probably based on some sort of an ancient understanding of the different effects that different stars when they're in alignment have on the universe. And I think it's partially, but look, we know that the moon literally makes the tide go in and out.

The gravity of the moon affects the water. It makes the tide go in and out to the point where there's a high tide and a low tide mark at the beach. This is why I'm rehydrating now, because I realize I'm mainly water. Mainly water. So if we're mainly water, how is that not affecting us? Is it?

Is it affecting us in some weird way that we don't totally understand? But the idea that a constellation 100 million light years away could be affecting us seems a bit of a stretch. I don't think that's what the idea is. The idea is that there is an infinite number of possibilities in terms of personalities and character traits, and there's an infinite number of factors. There's genetic factors, there's environmental factors, there's all these different factors. There might be cosmic factors. I don't think it's the primary source

of your personality or how you feel about the world, but I think it might be a factor. And I think it was probably much more of a factor when they didn't have light pollution. Uh-huh. It was a lot to unpack there. Yeah. It was more of a factor when there wasn't light pollution. So when there wasn't so much unnatural light, interfering with our view of the stars, then the stars had more of an effect on our personalities. That's what he's saying.

That seems to be the claim. And you know, Joe said, yeah, the horoscope version, that's obviously bullshit, but he proceeded to regurgitate. Well, Chris, just to point out, he said mostly bullshit. Oh, mostly bullshit. Yeah, it's mostly. He shouldn't say obviously. So amended with that and he says the horoscope version is mostly bullshit. Yeah. So, but he also then proceeded to give most of the reasons

that people who believe in the newspaper version of horoscopes give for why it works. Our body is mostly made of water. The moon affects the tides, so it's not like things in space don't have effects on the Earth. We know that they do, Matt. So why wouldn't a constellation, millions and millions of light years away, have a similar kind of effect through the moon. Like, who can say? Can scientists say? Can they say anything like that? Well, the moon is definitely having an effect on our personalities. I mean, that bit, that bit we can confirm. That's science. That's science. But Chris, when his interlocutor there, I know he's an English comedian, I forget his name.

Jimmy Carr. Jimmy Carr. He pushes back extremely politely, because you have to when you're on the Joe Rogan podcast. You don't flat out disagree with Joe. He says, isn't it a bit of a stretch that these remote constellations could be having an effect on our personalities? And then Joe talks about all the factors.

There's lots of factors, genetic factors, social factors, or whatever. And that sort of segues into an explanation for why the distant constellations are affecting us. Did you? I didn't quite track the logic there, did you? I know you've got the transcript in front of you. The logic.

So let me see. The idea is that there's an infinite number of possibilities in terms of personalities and character traits, and there's an infinite number of factors. There's genetic factors, we all agree on those. There's environmental factors, we all agree on those. And there's different factors that might be cosmic factors. Okay? So he doesn't think it's the primary source of your personality, but it might be a factor.

It might be a factor. So, yeah. I get it. So that was the explanation, because on one hand it might seem implausible that constellations light years away from us are affecting our personalities, but you have to remember there's an infinite number of factors. So maybe the constellations are one of those factors. Makes sense? Yes. Yes, that's it. So, you know, Joe just keeps his mind open about these kind of things.

So it really is impressive because like, I really do think that the, the people who might've made fun about like Gwyneth Paltrow or Oprah Winfrey poking fun at women who are paying attention to horoscopes. But like Joe is the real version of that. I feel like people should recognize that. I mean, I think that a lot of people do recognize that, but yeah, in any case, Matt, that was Joe on astrology. Well, before we move on, I think it's worth connecting this to a little bit of the general takeaway for people,

which is that this, what Joe's doing there, especially at the beginning, was the appeal to antiquity fallacy. There's a fallacy of assuming that because something is ancient, it's been around for a while, people have been doing it for a long time, then it's got to be better or more correct or more valuable. There must be something in it. And that's not true. And it manifests itself in a few different ways. So you've got the appeals to tradition. Practices are correct because the traditional people have always done it this way, something that conservatives tend to go for. The noble savage fallacy, romanticizing ancient peoples, non-modern peoples as having superior wisdom or living more authentically.

I would say that people on the progressive edge of the spectrum can fall for that one as well. But what Joe was doing there was I think falling under the subcategory of the ancient wisdom bias. Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,. You know, he's opened the things, he doesn't want to dismiss things too quickly. Let's hear Joe and his guests discuss the Big Bang. Well space is the ultimate who the fuck knows because we can only see so far. We see so far but even so far is only so far. Well and then they're saying like it's always expanding. That can't be true because like what is expanding into? If space is space, you know if they're saying like it's always expanding. That can't be true, because what is it expanding into? If space is space, you know, if they're like, oh,

it's like blowing up a balloon where everything's, OK, well, you're blowing up a balloon in a room. So what's the room that you're blowing the balloon into? And then that's in a bigger room, and then that's in this. And then there's the concept that it's actually finite. It's not infinite. It's some sort of donut shape. It's like, oh, It like goes back around eventually.

But then who made all that? Like is there a God? Did God make this? Or is God the universe? Yeah, but then who made God? And then that bothers me. Right, but who made that thing? Is that a thing that we think that like because we were born and we die that we have these biological Limitations that we attach to the universe itself. That's that's a very that that's fair The right yeah that we just we see things as being built and destroyed that there's always been something Well, it wouldn't be crazy if there wasn't something at one point that seems even crazier Then there right always has been something because if it just something, if it's just the nature of everything, there is always something,

right? It couldn't be nothing and then all of a sudden everything. That seems... Trevor Burrus Because what started that? What kicked that off? What snapped its fingers? Aaron Ross That's McKenna's great line, Terrence McKenna had a great line about the difference between science and religion is that science only asks you for one miracle. I want you to believe in one miracle, the Big Bang. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good one. It's a great line. It's because it really is true. And it's funny because people would

be incredulous about the resurrection of Jesus Christ, but yet they're convinced that the entire universe was smaller than the head of a pen and for no reason than anybody's adequately Explained to me. Yeah, since yeah, no Instantaneously became everything. Yeah, okay I can't buy that I'm sticking with Jesus. Yeah Jesus makes more sense. Wow I just imagine a journey Wow, wow, wow. I just imagine... Quite a journey.

That was a journey. I'm just imagining like any physicist listening to this like beating their head against the wall. Slaming their head into the table like, stop it, stop it. The universe is expanding, it's got to be expanding into something, right? We won't litigate that in detail, but actually it can be. But the other thing too is that Joe got the quote, so he remembered the quote, which is a pretty good quote, right? I mean, I don't know if he mangled it, but the general sentiment is that what, you know, science asks you to believe in one miracle, religion asks you to believe in lots of them.

So I think that's not a bad quote as far as it goes, because the beginning of the universe is somewhat mysterious, even for hard-hearted materialists like us. But you know, that is probably the only real mysterious thing from that point of view, whereas religions obviously have lots of them. But then Joe, so we quoted that, but then he straight away, like he seemed to read it the wrong way, which is the implication for him was that Christianity asks you to believe that Jesus could do miracles. More plausible. So that's more plausible than the other. That's the exact opposite of what the quote was intended.

Anyway. Well, this dovetails just the same, Matt, that also recently there's been reports that Rogan has converted to Christianity. I think he's supposed to be attending churches. And these reports, by the way, are second hand. So I would kind of anticipate that Rogan will soon come out and say, oh, this has been overblown. I'm not because this is what he does whenever there's a controversy or whatnot. But here's the reason.

This is the actual, like a kind where people are getting this from. This is a Christian apologist who appeared on his show called Wes Huff. And he was talking to another podcast and he said this. Yes. Joe Rogan and I have had on and off communication since then. I can tell you for a fact that he is attending a church and that that has been a consistent thing. And so, you know, things are happening

and he's a very inquisitive individual. And I think for the better in that he's communicating with me and other people in his life who are influences that can speak into, you know, these issues of reliability and trustworthiness and verisimilitude of something like the pages of scripture and where he should and shouldn't be looking for the information in regards to that.

So I am very encouraged by the communication that I have been able to have with him and others over these last few months in this kind of crazy season that I find myself in. But we're seeing what I don't think is an exaggeration to say, somewhat of a resurgence in interest in these topics that we've been talking about. Even the nitty gritty, we had someone who reached out to us recently at Apologetics Canada, who is probably the last bricks and mortar Christian bookstore that I've ever heard of. But they said, we have people walking through our doors asking young people, teenagers, saying, I want a Bible. All my friends are reading this thing. So, if the Bible is, you know, becoming popular with teenagers, then something is happening.

Chris, Andy is so hot right now. It's so hot. Yeah, a lot of things are making a comeback, Chris. So like, I might have been skeptical about that, but stranger things are happening these days. Yeah. Well, you know, the interesting thing for me is, so one, as I say, this is a secondhand report of Joe Rogan's purported conversion process and whatnot, but it would make sense because he's been more readily referencing

Christian stuff. He's had on Christian apologists and whatnot. And he always has had a kind of seeker vibe to him, right? It's just that before it was like a seeker vibe that was oriented towards conspiracies and shamans and DMT and whatnot. But now I like a lot of that sense making sphere and the new right. There is a kind of trad, calf, trad, religion, Christian exceptionalism stuff, the kind of thing that you find with Jordan Peterson and Russell Brand and so on going on. Right. So this would be absolutely in line with what you would expect if Joe Rogan did turn out to become a Christian convert. And that would make it a

bit bang discussion a little bit more on the nose. Well, you would explain it a bit better. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing. People with these sorts of beliefs, they tend to come full circle eventually. You know what I mean? They might spend some years, maybe their 20s, being like this. But the terminus can often be something God. Who was that famous 70s singer who converted to Islam? Cat Stevens, I think. I don't know. Yeah, he's so... anyway, it's a trend. I mean, like on the face of it, it might seem

surprising correlations between people who believe some things and people who believe completely other things. So, you know, for instance, the flat earth conspiracy belief thing. I mean, on the face of it, you might go, well, it's a crazy conspiratorial thing. And it is, right? There is might go, well, it's a crazy conspiratorial thing. And it is, right? There is a few of them who are just pure conspiracists. But when you look into that, you find out that a very large number of them are young Earth creationists. And there is a reason for that, of course, which is that this sort of tiny little snow globe, miniaturized, personalized

little snow globe, miniaturized, personalized cosmology of the Flat Earth is one that is much more comfortable for hardcore Christians and it allows them to sort of dismiss all of those troubling things about the Big Bang and constellations light years away and so on. There also are like these fads and things, right? Because like reading this Buddhism book, and it's talking about the expansion of Buddhism into the West and whatnot. And it does remind you that, you know, about 20 or 30 years ago, there was something of like a Buddhist boom, right in Hollywood and among celebrities and Tibetan Buddhism was very hot, right? There were various concerts and whatnot with bands. Richard Gere. Richard Gere.

Richard Gere. Richard Gere. Richard Gere. Many, many people, unlike Russell Brand, somebody with, you know, various tattoos from all sorts of different traditions who now has like swerved into traditional, you know, Christian Catholicism, I think maybe even, but like, so there are broader sweeps and weaves, these kinds of things. Yeah, well, and that is one of the reasons why I have a big issue with that kind of crunchy,

flaky, fluffy thinking generally, which is you might go, well, what's the harm? Yeah, some people are religious, what's the issue, right? Yeah, but I'm not speaking about religion even specifically. Like you might say, oh, people believe in tantric something for putting some complementary alternative therapies, homeopathy, for instance, or what have you. Or some little conspiracy theory thing that is, you know, it doesn't have bad vibes. It seems to be harmless. But the issue is, is that like the, the old woodcut or painting shows, this is Goya. Anyway, can't remember who did it. You know, the, the flight of reason or the sleep of reason rather, produces demons because it's so easy to segue between one fluffy, crunchy, strange thing that isn't grounded in reality

to another. And you know, you see someone like Joe Rogan tracing that path and some of it might be innocuous, but it is all indicative of the same mental problems, I think. And often just doesn't lead to very healthy blazes. Yeah. And I mean, in all these clips with Rogan, you kind of just see consistently his inability to critically evaluate things. Like whatever topic it may be, it's almost all based on like vibes and stuff that these come across online on X or whatever.

And there was a humorous exchange, Matt. I know that you won't have seen this because I know you stay out of these kind of waters. But you know, Guy Ferrari is this is the last of the road eclipsed by them. I do not I do not. I do not. Guy Ferry is a American chef. He has like bleach blonde hair with black roots and he was famous for like, kind of unhealthy food that he enjoyed. And he wore flame t-shirts and this kind of thing.

Right. He was like a figure in the early 2000s and whatnot. And he went on Rogan. He was actually in a very enthusiastic mood, you know, endorsing cold blanches. All the things you'll hear him attempt to do that. They appealed to Rogan. And he told you a story about his dad. His dad has died. He's passed over and, you know, he's been in contact with a medium, though,

and so on. So I'm going to play the first part of the story before you get Rogan's reaction to this. It might not go the way that you think that. So anyway, here's Guy Frary talking to Joe Rogan about his dead dad. The other day, maybe six months ago. said that. I text her and I said, hey, can I come see you? And she goes, yeah. She goes, your dad's been hitting me up quite a bit. Your dad's on, dad wants to talk to you. Your dead dad. My dead dad.

Has been hitting her up. To get in touch with me, to make. Does she know that your father's dead She knows my dad. Yeah, she knew my dad said but the point was and there was more intricacies about it, but She said yeah, he's been talking about he's good because were you just in Mexico So yeah, she'd do something about him Mexico something about an owl There's no way in a million years. She would know this an owl. Yeah, my dad comes back as an owl So he said it was gonna be as an owl

This is what he was saying to her to me to you Yeah, this before he died before he died said I'm gonna come back as an hour. He just how was the thing wise guy? Okay, did you follow that Matt? You're you're on board with the story so far It's a little bit confused. Yeah. Yeah, okay, so so he got a he called up his medium as you do And cuz you want to go see and she said good because I've been having a chat with you dad dad Yeah, and but I think he And cause you want to go see her and she said, good, cause I've been having a chat with your dad. Yeah. And, but I think he, his dad, before he died, said, said, what about being an owl? He's going to come, he's going to come back as an owl.

And the medium mentioned something about like being in Mexico, doing something, something related to an owl. And how would she know that much? She wouldn't, There's no way like I'm sure Guy Ferrari's never mentioned anything about these kind of beliefs before. Right. Like it's it's all new information. There's no other way that mediums can find out things about what people are doing.

So like, I'm sure he didn't post about it anywhere. Nothing like that. It's all it's all mystical things. And now Joe is usually on board with mystical stuff, right? But you've heard his responses. He's a little bit confused by what's going on. He doesn't sound super engaged by this. And then another thing that you have to countenance about Joe is that he's quite myopic. Like what he wants to talk about, the way that he interprets things, that's kind of what he wants to focus on. Right? So like if you go on his show,

unless you're a big person like Dave Chappelle or Bill Barr or whatever, you're probably going to end up talking about what Joe wants to talk about, which will often be like COVID vaccines and left-wing politics. Right? But anyway, here's the second part of this, the end of that story. So you heard Joe, you know, a bit bemused, coming back as an owl. Here we go. The second part. Okay. And now how?

Howls are dumb as shit. I don't know. I've been raising. I don't know that I've never seen it smarter than these. You scared the shit out of me. No, they're really dumb birds. That's great. That's great That's my dad. We're talking about things like Jimmy. No, I'm not saying your dad's dumb

I'm just saying it's weird that we all have this idea of owls being wise. I took this lady trains birds She says there's someone dumbest birds. It's like the only dumbest than them is emus. It's like emus are dumb as shit I saw emus on a ranch yesterday. She's but she's like we have this idea that owls are really smart Well, whatever the whatever the charge is I hung up of stained glass owl Where my dad used to sit in our house in Mexico No, it's not that there's no way So, I don't know I'm not cheating your pre something there's something bigger going on

I don't know. I'm not cheating or preaching. There's something bigger going on there. Have you ever heard of the telepathy tapes? I know people are looking at me going, guys, guys fucking crazy. But it really is my, there's got to be something else. Have you ever heard of the telepathy tapes? No. The telepathy tapes are... So where did that go? Because I didn't really follow. Well, the telepathy tapes are this kind of podcast series where there's a woman that claims that

autistic children that are very low functioning, but they're actually like psychic and they're communicating through facilitated communication. And it was this whole thing. So Joe Rogan is all into that. So he went there at the very end, but before that, he mainly wanted to share he mainly wanted to share. It's like birdfax. So, I was really stupid and maybe only surpassed the stupidity by emus. Leave the emus out of this. Come on. Oh, he said emus. Emus, emus. Yeah. So, so we just guessed there. What was the nature of his spooky experience with the owls? Because I know that his dad told him he was the nature of his spooky experience with the owls?

Because I know that his dad told him he was going to come back. Oh, it was just that the medium knew that he hung up something in the shape of an aisle in, like, Mexico, where his dad used to be. So, right. Wow. Yeah. Okay. So he obviously brought this story because, you Joe is interested in these kind of occult... If a joke got distracted by the stupidity of ours. Yeah, and it is funny because he's like, he said, you know, my dad, yeah, he's coming back as an aunt, because all his wives and children are like, all stupid as shit. I know it's not very empathetic. The guys, the guys, you know, in his story, the hours are important.

There was there are messages. Yeah. Then you heard him like have to say, yeah, so we hook up the, oh, after Joe, but you know, so I, I thought it was, it was a funny exchange, but again, what's going to happen there, Matt, is they're going to go on and Joe Rogan's going to go on a big extended ref about this podcast about psychic autistic children, right, and how it's all been proven and. Well, not so like he wasn't really biting on the medium-old story,

but it's just because he wanted to talk about like whatever he wants to ref about. So if it's into the aliens or whatever, that's fine, but he doesn't like ours. He's just very mercurial. Yeah, he's mercurial. You don't know what he's got the great card is going to like. It was often this little thing that was specifically designed for his pleasure and he swept it aside. Yeah, you didn't realize he's against ours. Actually, you reminded me, I've mentioned it before, Chris, but I actually think we should cover it. Mike Clelland, he wrote a book called The Messages, Al's Synchronicity and the UFO Abductee, and he's collected a wealth of first-hand accounts in which Al's manifest in highly

charged moments that surround alien contact. Shamanistic experiences, personal transformation, ancient archetypes, profound synchronicities and deaths. So I've listened to a couple of lectures from Mike Clelland and it is a tour de force. He actually seems like a nice guy, you know what I mean, but it just deeply, He actually seems like a nice guy, you know what I mean? But it just deeply, deeply diluted. And yeah, it's just, it's fascinating stuff. Well, this is, you know, like, that's the thing. If you packaged it right, like if you connected the oils in with aliens and whatnot,

like Joe might be on board, but you just have to overcome, like, whatever, you know, particular thing that he's read on Twitter or heard somebody say to him that day. And we've heard this constantly in Joe Rogan's things that he picks up these little factoids and then he just regurgitates them. So it can be about the Democrats starting the fires in California or whatever, it can be George Soros. But it but it's hyper skepticism comes up in any occasion where like it's Elon Musk or Donald Trump or in this occasion, particularly ours. He will never bar it. No way. There's dumb shit. There's no way they're involved in some mystical thing. So that was Rogan. That's just a reminder of what goes on in the Rogan sphere. And actually, those conversations, like collectively, I just think they're a very good illustration of how

much stock you should put in the opinions of Rogan. The level of research and logical insight, critical thinking that he's applying across all of those, that is the same that he applies to politics as the same that he applies to vaccines and so on. So he uses the deflection of I'm just a dumb moron talking nonsense as a deflection, because he clearly doesn't believe that from other stuff that we've seen when he's talking about vaccines. But he is. that's the word he is absolutely that.

And he's no more kind of well-informed than like Gwyneth Paltrow. Like he is a meal version of that whole approach to things. So the fact that he references scientific words on the kitchen or whatever, it should no more lead people to believe that he's actually interested in scientific topics than it does when somebody promoting astrology mentions a constellation. Yeah, I'd like to think most people know that at this point, Chris. You'd like to think. You would hope so. You would hope so. But, um, well, let's see, let's see. Now I'm at the second course for today.

Yes, we've had first course. What about second course? Um, Jordan Peterson, ill advisedly went on this show called Jubilee, right? Where the format is there's one person sitting in the middle and there are kind of 20 people arranged in a circle around them. And they're going to they're like people that will disagree over an issue. Right. It can be like, you know, Destiny versus MAGA fans or Sam Sido versus MAGA fans. Or in this case, it was billed as one Christian versus 20 atheists. But the Christian that they chose was Jordan Peterson, which you will see

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