Democracy Now! Audio - Democracy Now! 2025-07-09 Wednesday

Episode Date: July 9, 2025

Headlines for July 09, 2025; “Netanyahu Is the Problem”: Sanders’s Former Adviser Matt Duss on Why Gaza Ceasefire Remains Elusive; “Vladimir Putin Is Not Interested in a Peace Deal”: Matt Duss on Trump’s Stalled Ukraine Diplomacy; “Ideological Deportation”: AAUP v. Rubio Trial Challenges Trump Crackdown on Pro-Palestine Students; Philadelphia Strike Ends: Race & Inequality at Center of Municipal Workers’ Fight for a Fair Wage

From New York, this is Democracy Now. We're going to get that solved. Gaza is a tragic, it's a tragedy. It's a tragedy. And he wants to get itself, and I want to get itself. And I think the other side wants to get itself. and I think the other side wants to get itself. Will there be a ceasefire for Gaza?

President Trump and Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu meet again on day 641 of Israel's assault on Gaza. We'll get the latest. Then to the other major U.S.-backed war, Ukraine, the U.S. has resumed military aid. After cutting it off last week, we'll speak with Senator Bernie Sanders' former foreign policy advisor, Matt Duss. And a major lawsuit goes to trial this week, challenging the Trump administration attack on free speech on campus by arresting and detaining international students and professors who speak out on Palestinian rights. We joined the lawsuit because we refused to let Trump, Rubio, or anybody else use citizenship to divide and conquer us. We'll speak with Jameel Jaffer, head of Columbia University's Knight First Amendment Institute.

He's on the legal team. then to Philadelphia, where the largest sanitation strike in a generation ended early this morning. These members are citizens, first and foremost of Philadelphia, and they service every aspect across this city and can't afford themselves to have any decent quality of life aside the city. All that and more coming up. Welcome to Democracy Now. Democracy Now.org of the War and Peace. report. I'm Amy Goodman. President Trump met with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at the White House for a second straight day, Tuesday as Trump's Middle East envoy claimed Israel and Hamas are nearing a breakthrough on a ceasefire agreement. It's not clear what Trump and Netanyahu

discussed behind closed doors, but Israeli media is reporting Netanyahu is under extreme pressure to reach a 60-day ceasefire deal that would see 10 living Israeli hostages released, along with the bodies of dead hostages in exchange for the release of Palestinians held in Israeli prisons, many without charge. Hamas negotiators are also seeking the withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza, international guarantees for an end to the war, the resumption of humanitarian aid shipments overseen by the UN and the International Committee of the Red Cross, and an end to the operations of the U.S.-Israeli-backed militarized aid group, the so-called Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, or GHF. Earlier today, hundreds of starving Palestinians in Gaza were forced to move toward the southern city of Rafah to search for food after GHF closed its only

remaining aid distribution center in the central Gaza Strip. Palestinian officials say more than 770 people have been killed by Israeli forces and U.S. security contractors at sites run by GHF since it began operations in May. Meanwhile, Israeli attacks killed nearly 100 people across Gaza on Tuesday, as Palestinians awaited word on whether Israel would reach a ceasefire deal. Among the dead are displaced Palestinians torn to pieces when an Israeli missile struck a roundabout where the children were playing. At that moment, children were playing on the swivel chairs here.

Nearby stood a tent, the temporary shelter of a disabled man who wasn't affiliated with any faction. Then, tragically, the airstrike came without warning. We're all waiting for a ceasefire, but every delay brings new deaths. I could die. He could die. What exactly are they waiting for? The United Nations Humanitarian Office warns fuel shortages caused by Israel's blockade have reached a critical point with power for services, including water desalination, and hospitals, intensive care units rapidly running out. On Tuesday, the Palestinian Red Crescent Society, announced it's closing the Ozzatun Medical Clinic in Gaza City after Israeli artillery shells struck nearby. The Red Crescent says it's the 18th time the group's been forced to close a clinic due to Israeli attacks and its blockade of medicine.

This comes as Gaza health officials are warning of an alarming rise of meningitis cases among Gaza's children with hundreds of cases reported in recent weeks. Lebanon's health ministry says an Israeli strike on a vehicle near the northern city of Tripoli killed at least three people and injured 13 others Tuesday in Israel's latest breach of its ceasefire with Lebanon. The Israeli military claimed the strike hit a key figure from Hamas but did not identify the targets. Separately, Israel claimed it killed a Hezbollah commander in a drone strike on southern Lebanon Tuesday night. Meanwhile, Yemen's Houthi fighters have attacked another merchant vessel in the Red Sea. killing three sailors, wounding two others aboard a Liberian-flagged cargo ship. Tuesday's attack follows another Houthi strike on Sunday that sank a Liberian-flagged Greek-owned ship.

All 22 crew members were rescued by a nearby ship responding to their distress call. The Houthi's avowed to continue attacking Red Sea shipping lanes until Israel ends its war on the Gaza Strip. The U.S. Supreme Court has cleared a path for the Trump administration to gut the federal workforce. and eliminate entire federal agencies. On Tuesday, Justice has released an unsigned order from its shadow docket, lifting lower court injunctions that blocked mass layoffs and the restructuring of federal agencies, even though Congress has not authorized those plans. In a dissenting opinion, Justice Katanji Brown-Jackson called the court's lifting of the

injunctions, unfortunate, hubristic, and senseless, unquote. the American Federal Federation of Government employees, which represents some 820,000 federal workers, said in a statement, quote, Today's decision has dealt a serious blow to our democracy and puts services that the American people rely on in grave jeopardy. In New Mexico, at least three people were killed by unprecedented flash floods Tuesday in the community of Ruidoso, Among the victims were children, age four and seven, who were swept downstream by the rushing floodwaters that saw the river rise to a record-breaking 20 feet. This comes as rescue teams in Texas are searching for over 170 people who've gone missing in the catastrophic floods of July 4th. The official death toll has climbed to at least 109 victims. Ukraine's Air Force says Russia launched its largest aerial attack overnight since its 2020.

full-scale invasion of Ukraine, firing a record 741 drones and missiles, most of them targeting the city of Lutsk in Western Ukraine. The barrage prompted Poland to activate its air defenses and scramble fighter jets. Russia's attack came after President Trump Tuesday, sharply criticized Russian President Vladimir Putin, his latest in a series of U-turns on Ukraine policy. You get a lot of bullshit thrown at us by Putin, for you want to know the truth. It's very nice all the time, but it turns out to be meaningless. Trump said the U.S. would now send additional weapons to Ukraine.

After the Pentagon last week halted arms shipments, President Trump said he didn't know about that. We'll have more on Ukraine later in the broadcast with Matt Duss, former foreign policy advisor to Senator Bernie Sanders. The International Criminal Courts issued arrest warrants for two top Taliban leaders in Afghanistan on charges of committing gender-based persecution against women and girls. The court said in a statement, since regaining control of Afghanistan in 2021, the Taliban have, quote, specifically targeted girls and women by reason of their gender, depriving them of fundamental rights and freedoms, unquote. Women and girls have essentially been erased from public life in Afghanistan,

including a Taliban-en-forced ban and girls attending school beyond the sixth grade. The Taliban quickly rejected the arrest warrants issued against Sheikh Habatula Akunzada and Taliban's supreme leader and Abdul Hakim Hakani Afghanistan's top justice official. The government of El Salvador is admitted to UN investigators. The Trump administration controls the fate of nearly 140 Venezuela. and immigrants transferred from the U.S. to the notorious Seikot mega prison. The report was issued in response to a U.N. inquiry indicating that El Salvador says it bears no legal responsibility for the men. The revelations directly contradict claims by Trump

officials and Department of Justice lawyers who've repeatedly said they don't have jurisdiction or power to facilitate the return of the immigrants who are sent to El Salvador from the U.S. without due process. Immigrants jailed in Florida's new detention camp, dubbed alligator alcatraz, say conditions of their confinement are a form of torture. In a phone interview with CBS, immigrants described being served maggot-infested food, a lack of access to water for sanitation, and the denial of medical care and religious rights. There have also been reports of flooding near electric cables.

The detention camp was built in just eight days at an abandonment. an airfield in the remote Everglades swamp lands with the first group of immigrants transferred there last week. The jail can hold up to 5,000 immigrants. Last week, a group of Democratic Florida state lawmakers said they were denied entry to the jail for an inspection. On Capitol Hill House Democrats are demanding the release of all files related to the dead convicted sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein that also mentioned Donald Trump. A letter from from 16 lawmakers accuses Attorney General Pam Bondi of withholding Epstein files that implicate Trump. They write, quote, stop protecting your boss.

This comes after the Justice Department released a memo this week, reiterating that Jeffrey Epstein died by suicide and claiming he did not keep a client list. That is a U-turn from Attorney General Bondi's previous statements, including this claim during a Fox News interview in February. It's sitting on my desk right now to review. That's been a directive by President Trump. I'm reviewing that. I'm reviewing JFK files, MLK files.

That's all in the process of being reviewed because that was done at the directive of the president from all of these agencies. Jeffrey Epstein counted President Donald Trump and Bill Clinton among his friends. In 2002, Trump told New York magazine, quote, I've known Jeff for 15 years, terrific guy.

He's a lot of fun to be with. It's even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side, unquote. On Tuesday, Trump angrily dismissed reporters' questions about Epstein during a cabinet meeting. Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein? This guy's been talked about for years. You're asking, we have Texas, we have this,

we have all of the things. And are people still talking about this guy, this creep? So that is unbelievable. Swiss medical authorities have approved the first drug suitable to treat malaria and babies and very young children. Eight African countries that participate in clinical trials are now poised to approve the malaria treatment, which is dissolvable, and can be mixed with breast milk, making it easy to administer. Malaria kills about 600,000 people worldwide each year, a majority of them children under the age of five. A coalition of doctors and public health. groups has sued Health and Human Services Secretary Robert of Kennedy Jr. over changes to

vaccine policy, which they say undermine public trust in vaccines. The complaint filed in a U.S. District Court in Massachusetts accuses RFK Jr. of violating federal law by unilaterally altering COVID-19 vaccine recommendations without scientific evidence for children and people who are pregnant. The American Academy of Pediatrics called the move an assault on science, public health, and evidence-based medicine. The Academy's president, Dr. Susan Cressley, spoke in a video accompanying the lawsuit. Because this wasn't just sidelining science, it's an attack on the very foundation of how we protect families and children's health.

And the consequences could be dangerous. The American Academy of Pediatrics isn't standing by. We're stepping up. We're taking legal action because we believe children deserve better. We've published our own immunization schedule. for decades, and we'll continue to do so because kids can't wait for politicians to sort this out. And those are some of the headlines. This is Democracy Now. DemocracyNow.org, the war and peace report.

I'm Amy Goodman. President Trump met with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at the White House for a second straight day Tuesday, as Trump's Middle East envoy claimed Israel and Hamas are nearing a breakthrough on a ceasefire agreement. It's not clear what Trump and Netanyahu discussed behind closed doors, but Israeli media are reporting Netanyahu is under extreme pressure to reach a 60-day ceasefire deal. That would see 10 living Israeli hostages released, along with the bodies of dead hostages, in exchange for the release of Palestinian prisoners held in Israeli jails.

There are more Palestinian prisoners in jails than any time in a quarter of a century. Hamat's negotiators are also seeking the withdrawal of Israeli forces, international guarantees for an end to the war, the resumption of humanitarian aid shipments overseen by the United Nations and the International Committee of the Red Cross, and an end to the operations of the U.S.-Israeli-backed, militarized shadowy aid group, the so-called Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, known as GHF. Earlier today, hundreds of starving Palestinians in Gaza were forced to move toward the southern city of Raha to search for food. After GHF closed its only remaining aid distribution center in the Central Gaza Strip, Palestinian officials say more than 770 Palestinians have been killed by Israeli forces and U.S. security contractors at sites run by GHF since it began operations in May. Back in Washington, D.C., Prime Minister Netanyahu is set to meet today with Defense Secretary Pete Heg-Seth at the Pentagon, and again at an event tonight featuring the heads of Jewish organizations, evangelical leaders, and senior administration officials. For more, we're joined in Washington, D.C. by Matt D.S. He's an executive vice president at the Center for International Policy and former foreign policy advisor to Senator Bernie, Sanders, Matt. Welcome back to Democracy Now. Can you talk about the carnage right now in Gaza,

whether we're talking about starvation or Israeli bombing of civilians? Over the last few days, hundreds more have been killed. This as President Trump and Prime Minister Netanyahu meet in Washington, D.C., and there's discussion of a possible ceasefire. What do you know? Yeah, I mean, as you said and you described, and we've all seen, with our own eyes day after day, the destruction, the death, the suffering is unspeakable. And we can't allow it to simply fade into the background. This needs to end. It's unclear. You know, you said that there's pressure being put on Netanyahu by Trump. That may be true in terms of achieving a 60-day cease fiber. What is important here is that pressure is sustained to turn this into a durable. and permanent ceasefire. That's what was lacking in the ceasefire that was agreed earlier this year in January before Trump's inauguration. He put pressure on Netanyahu to agree to that temporary ceasefire, but then Netanyahu, of course, broke that ceasefire agreement and returned

to the war because his interests and the interests of his government remained to make this a perpetual ongoing war. And that's what he's interested in. So talk about the significance of this, what, third meeting of President Trump and Netanyahu since Trump became president once again. Talk about the meetings that have been held from Heg-Seth to Vance and what is being accomplished here. And what you understand is happening between the negotiators in Doha, the Hamas and Israeli negotiators. Sure. Well, I mean, of course, there's always, you know, engagement in meetings at multiple

levels between multiple officials in the U.S. and Israeli government and in the region, I think what's the big, one of the big focus of this meeting between Trump and Netanyahu or this round of meetings is to kind of try and take a victory lap as they see it after the war on Iran, which has paused for the moment. Israel launched its war a few weeks ago in the midst of negotiations between the U.S. and Iran over its nuclear program. Trump eventually launched U.S. air strikes on Iran's nuclear nuclear. program, the actual impact of those strikes are still unclear, but clearly Netanyahu and Trump have an interest in promoting that as a massive success. The question is, as I said earlier,

does this now translate into attention and focus and pressure from Trump on Netanyahu to get a ceasefire in Gaza? We've heard reports of the meetings in Doha, Qatar, between the U.S. and Israeli and Hamas officials and other negotiators that they are getting closer. But the key sticking point remains Hamas' central demand that this agreement lead to a permanent ceasefire. And that is what Netanyahu has always resisted. There has been a deal on the table with this condition from very, very early in this war from November of 2023. Netanyahu has consistently refused, and unfortunately just from the public comments from Trump, it seems that Trump, like the Biden administration before him is willing to give political cover to Netanyahu to pretend that

he's actually interested in a real ceasefire when clearly he is not. This is a tool of pressure that the United States can and should use if it really wants to get a ceasefire is to make clear publicly that Netanyahu is the problem here. He is the one refusing. There's enormous political pressure in Israel from hostages, families and friends, but not only from them, from the Israeli public more broadly, who are tired of this war, and they want it to end, they want to get the hostages back. But that's something that Trump, unfortunately, still seems unwilling to say. I want to go back to their first meeting on Monday at that long table where Netanyahu presented Trump with a letter nominating him for the Nobel Peace Prize. Netanyahu also said he was

working with the U.S. to find countries or a country that would take the Palestinians, claiming that they would be free to leave Gaza voluntarily. This is what he said. I think President Trump had a brilliant vision. It's called free choice. You know, if people want to stay, they can stay. But if they want to leave, they should be able to leave. It shouldn't be, you know, prison. He repeatedly talked about Palestinians' freedom to choose. Can you talk about in the context of what is taking place in Gaza right now, the starvation, the bombings, the killings, Matt? Yeah, I mean, it's almost indescribable how dishonest and disgusting that is from Netanyahu.

First, let's step back. Let's understand that this is an accused war criminal who's under indictment from the international criminal court, which has issued a warrant for his arrest. So the fact that the President of the United States has welcomed him to the White House is a disgrace to the United States. Every American should feel ashamed and embarrassed about this. And for Netanyahu to nominate him

for a Nobel Peace Prize is, you know, it's just another example of, you know, foreign leaders understanding that you need to flatter the president of the United States, this president of the United States, in order to get on his good side. But it's ultimately meaningless. I could nominate my,

ice cream man for a Nobel Peace Prize just as easily. But for Netanyahu to refer to Palestinians free choice to leave, when you're facing constant violence as Palestinians are, it is not a free choice to leave. If Palestinians had their choice, they would stay in Gaza. Gaza is their home. So to treat this as anything like voluntary is completely dishonest. And I'm actually, it's really outrageous to see it being reported this way as if Palestinians are being given the option to continue to live among the rubble and the bombing and the starvation and the disease or to transfer themselves. This is not in any sense voluntary. This is ethnic cleansing. Multiple human rights organizations and scholars globally have referred to this as a genocide.

And I think that is how we need to understand it. Now, the International Criminal Court issued arrest warrants for top Taliban leaders for gender violence against women and girls. But earlier, in the last months, they issued arrest warrants for the former Defense Secretary of Israel and the Prime Minister Netanyahu. The U.S. receiving him, not enforcing an ICC warrant seeking his arrest for war crimes and crimes against humanity committed in Gaza. Of course, the U.S. is not a signatory to the international criminal court. But you have the U.N. special rapporteur on human rights and the situation in the occupied Palestinian territory, Francesca Albanese, hitting out at countries that allowed Netanyahu to fly over their airspace en route to the United States, suggesting they may have flouted their obligations under international law. She said on Wednesday the governments of Italy, France, and Greece needed to explain why they provided safe passage to Netanyahu. Matt Duss, your response.

Yeah, I think Special Representative Albanese is right. And that is why there's a massive effort to defame her and to silence her. But I think her point is correct. Countries in Europe that have signed on to the International Criminal Court have a responsibility here, and they have failed in that responsibility. I would also add that by welcoming Netanyahu, by attacking the international criminal court, you know, the Trump administration as well as other European countries that are failing to honor that warrant are undermining the work of the court more broadly. You mentioned the warrants against the Taliban leaders. I think those are appropriate. But those Taliban leaders who have now faced indictment

for their abuse of women, they are the beneficiaries of this. They are the winners of Netanyahu who being welcome to the White House, just as Vladimir Putin is, Vladimir Putin faces a warrant from the ICC, he's a big winner here because you are undermining the work of the court, you're telling the world that we can just choose to ignore these warrants and these indictments when we choose. That really undermines the work to uphold a set of rules and norms regarding the protection of civilians here. And I want to go to Putin in a minute and Trump's turnaround on Russian invasion. But I want to ask you one last question.

I want to go to a clip of Mike Huckabee, the U.S. ambassador to Israel. This is a recording obtained by CNN from 2016 when Huckabee was running for president. Listen carefully. Basically, there really is no such thing as, I have to be careful to say this, because people really get up there's really no much of things of Palestine.

It's not. There's not. There's no such thing as a Palestinian ambassador. Huckabee said, again, I want to quote that. He said, basically, there really is no such thing as, and I need to be careful saying this, because people get really upset. There's really no such thing as Palestinians and has supported the annexation, Israel's annexation of the West Bank. So this goes to the meeting that apparently, or event that Netanyahu will be attending on his last night here tonight in Washington, D.C., with Jewish leaders and evangelical leaders, you know, there's Kufi, for example, the Christians United for Israel. I wanted to go to that meeting that they're going to be having. and the role of evangelicals, like Mike Huckabee, a leader of Zionist evangelicals, in supporting Israel. Matt, you personally know a lot about this. Right. I mean, I am quite familiar with Huckabee's views on this and with the Christian evangelical Zionist view on this.

This is part of the community that I grew up in. And I think this meeting tonight is very interesting for Netanyahu, because this is his real base in the United States. is right-wing Christian evangelical Zionists. American Jews overwhelmingly vote for Democrats. They are overwhelmingly liberal. And a huge part of them support Palestinian liberation, a two-state solution, and do not support his government. Unfortunately, conservative Christian evangelicals, as you heard from Mike Huckabee,

many of them simply don't recognize the Palestinians as a people with legitimate claims. They believe that Israel should control all of the land of Israel, even beyond Israel's current borders, as partly as a prerequisite for the second coming of Jesus Christ. That's part of the theology here. And these, I would also add, this in terms of numbers, this is the biggest part of the right-wing pro-Israel lobby in the United States. They're far more evangelical Christians than there are American Jews. And these organizations do a lot of the real on-the-ground lobbying in various states and various districts. And this is, said, this is Netanyahu's a real political base here in the United States, and he is smart enough

to understand that. But we should also understand that the policy they are supporting is deeply inhumane. It is destructive and it is dangerous for everyone in the United States and in the region. Matt, us, before we go, I want to ask you about developments with Ukraine. Ukraine's Air Force says Russia launched its largest aerial attack overnight since its invasion in 2022, firing a record 741 drones and missiles, most of them targeting the city of Lutsk in western Ukraine. The barrage prompted Poland to activate its air defenses and scramble fighter jets. Russia's attack came after President Trump Tuesday, sharply criticized Russian President Vladimir Putin his latest in a series of U-turns on Ukraine policy.

We get a lot of bullshit thrown at us by Putin, for you want to know the truth. He's very nice all the time, but it turns out to be. meaningless. Trump said the U.S. would now send additional weapons to Ukraine after the Pentagon last week halted arms shipments. It's being reported Defense Secretary Pete Hegeseth did not inform the White House before he authorized the pause on weapon shipments to Ukraine. Apparently, he said he wanted to check if there were enough weapons for the U.S. to have as well as sending to Ukraine. All of this comes as the First International Court has found Moscow responsible for human rights abuses in Ukraine.

Judges at the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg delivered two rulings against Russia today. In the first ruling, it found Russia violated international law during the conflict in Ukraine. It also ruled Russia was being behind the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 in 2014, which killed 298 people. Matt Duss, your former foreign policy advisor

to Senator Bernie Sanders, your vice president of the Center for International policy. Explain what's going on here right now and the significance of Trump's turnaround when it comes to Putin. Right. I mean, I think we all heard that Trump was apparently unaware of the cutoff in arms from the U.S. to Ukraine that was announced last week. I mean, I think no one is surprised to learn once again that there is a pretty chaotic and disorganized policy process in this administration, if one can even call it a policy process. But I think what's important here is that Trump, having promised to make peace between Ukraine and Russia,

saying that, you know, I'll make a peace deal in the first few days, it'll be really easy. He's learning that it's actually not that easy, and it's not that easy because Vladimir Putin is not interested in a peace deal. I think that is the most important takeaway here. Many of us support negotiations. I think no one wants peace more than the Ukrainians themselves, but we do need to understand that Putin has a vote. And Putin's interests, as far as I've seen, have not changed. He's going to continue to make war on Ukraine. He wants to remove Ukraine's independence.

He wants to make Ukraine essentially a part of Russia's imperium as he sees it. He has not changed those goals. And until he does, it's hard to see what we can actually negotiate in terms of a ceasefire, let alone adorable peace deal. And why Trump's turnaround? I think Trump is, again, he feels embarrassed, I would guess, as someone who came in making bold claims about his ability to make a deal, saying, oh, I know Putin, I know how he thinks. And here Putin has shown no, actually, you don't understand how I think, or at least you have not recognized what I really want, and that has really, you know, annoyed Donald Trump clearly.

The question is what Donald Trump now does about it. Will he sustain this defensive aid to Ukraine? Will he work more closely with other allies in Europe to up the pressure? Will he work with others in the global community to put pressure on Putin to get to a real negotiation? But given the way he's operated thus far, alienating allies, alienating others in the global south who might serve a brokering role here, it's hard for me to see how he could actually stand up a real and credible peace process. In fact, going after, for example, the big BRICS summit in Brazil, BRICS, of course, stands for Russia, Brazil, India, China, and South Africa.

Yeah. Matt Duss, I want to thank you. Go ahead. 20 seconds. No, I would just say, I mean, working through some of the BRICS countries, particularly Brazil, was an option here. And it's one he should look at. But given what he's said and done thus far, I don't know if that's an option right now. Matt Duss, Executive Vice President's Center for International Policy.

former foreign policy advisor to Senator Bernie Sanders. A major lawsuit is going to trial, just begun, challenging the Trump administration's attack on free speech by arresting and detaining international students and professors who speak out on Palestinian rights. When we come back, we'll go to Boston, where the trial's taking place. I'm going to be I'm going to I'm I'm I'm

you know I'm and I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm

I'm oh I'm and I'm you know The healers by the late great Randy Weston, he performed the song when he spoke to Democracy Now in 2012. of go to DemocracyNow.org to see the whole interview.

This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org. I'm Mimi Goodman. We look now at the first case to go to trial that challenges the Trump administration's policy of arresting, detaining, and deporting international students and professors who participate in pro-Palestinian activism. The trial began this week after the case was filed in March by the American Association of University Professors, the AAP, including its chapters at Harvard, New York University and Rutgers, and the Middle East Studies Association, Mesa.

The Trump administration tried to get the case dismissed, but those efforts were rejected by U.S. District Judge William Young, an 84-year-old Ronald Reagan appointee, who ordered a trial saying it was the, quote, best way to get at the truth. In a minute, we'll get an update on the first two days of the trial where the first of some 20 witnesses testified. But first, we go to Zachary Samillan, Associate Professor of English at NYU, Vice President of the NYU AAUP chapter, speaking at a rally Monday outside the Boston courthouse. We joined the lawsuit because we refused to let Trump, Rubio, or anybody else use citizenship to divide and conquer us. And above all, we joined to fight back against the criminalization of all protests, but especially of

protest against the destruction and ethnic cleansing of Palestine. Another speaker at Monday's rally was Carolyn Light, a senior lecture in gender and sexuality studies at Harvard University, a member of Harvard's AAPUP, another one of the plaintiffs in the case. This lawsuit is deeply personal to me and to my mom. We are descended from people who fled pogroms in the Jewish pail of settlement to come to the United States seeking refuge and especially so that they could practice their freedom of religion that the old

country denied us, right? A key tenet of Judaism that I was raised with is something called Tican O'Rong. It literally means repairing the world. It is the responsibility of every Jewish person to do

their best to try to denounce oppression wherever we see it to speak out against unfairness. and harm and violence against others. Last Hanukkah, my eldest child gifted me this kaffia that I'm wearing today, and it's a little warm, honestly, but I wear it in solidarity with my brave friends and colleagues and students who have spoken out against the relentless violence in Gaza.

It feels like such a small thing to do. And yet, in the context of this chilling of freedom expression and crissue, criminalization of pro-Palestinian solidarity. This mere act of wearing a kathia is often characterized as subversion and as anti-Semitism, just wearing it. So this administration claims that ideological deportations are necessary, are part of their effort to fight anti-Semitism and to keep Jewish people from harm. Well, I'll tell you what harms Jewish people, and I can speak as a historian on this topic. It's the relentless assault on freedom of expression. It's the language of us versus them, and it's the criminalization of our valued community members, our colleagues, and our students.

Make no mistake, we all suffer when some of us are silenced. In a university, setting, especially, it makes honest inquiry absolutely impossible. We can't do our jobs as educators, as researchers, when these circumstances prevail. And so today, we are fighting back. And as I said, this is personal for me and for my mom. And to the spurious claim that ideological deportation protects Jewish people, I'll say it today and I'll say it until I have no voice left, not in my name. That's Caroline Light, Senior Lecture and Gender and Sexuality Studies at Harvard University, a member of Harvard AAUP, one of the plaintiffs in this case, the American Association, University Professors v. Rubio. For more, we're joined in Boston before day three of

the trial by Jamil Jaffer, director of the Knight First Amendment Institute at Columbia University, part of the team of lawyers representing professors in their lawsuit against the Trump administration's repression of students and faculty involved in pro-Palestine activism. He was previously the ACLU's deputy legal director. Jamil Jaffer, welcome back to Democracy Now. Explain why this case went to trial. We see so many injunctions issued by judges across the country. But this one is being heard by a federal judge, not before a jury, but before the judge. Right. Yeah. Well, we move for preliminary relief in the case. So we filed a motion very soon after we filed the complaint asking the court to grant immediate relief. And the court said that it wouldn't grant immediate relief, but it would give us a trial on an expedited schedule.

We are before a judge who has a practice of collapsing requests for preliminary relief with trials on the merit, so this is not entirely unprecedented or surprising. And it does give us an opportunity to create a complete factual record, and we are very grateful for that. And, you know, as you noted, the trial started yesterday or Monday. Today is day three. We expect it to go through the end of next week. So why did the AAPUP Sue Rubio, Marka Rubio, the Secretary of State, the case known as AAPU versus Rubio? Yeah, so I know you've talked about the student cases many, many times. You know, there are, you know, a dozen students, at least, who have been arrested, detained and threatened with

deportation on the basis of their pro-Palestinian advocacy. There are hundreds of others whose visas have been revoked under the same policy. Some of those students have filed suit. Some of them were held in detention and judges have now released them from detention. Those cases are ongoing because the Trump administration continues to assert the authority to deport people on the basis of their pro-Palestinian expression and association. But our view, and more importantly, the American Association of University Professors' view and the Middle East Studies Association's view

was that these arrests and detentions and threatened deportations are causing harm not only to, most obviously, the students who are being detained and threatened with deportation, but to the larger academic community as well. because students and faculty all over the country are quite literally terrified about the possibility that their advocacy and expression will lead to detention.

They are terrified that ICE agents will show up at their door any day and take them away because they wrote an op-ed critical of Israel or because they attended a public protest. And the result is that there is this climate of fear. and repression on college campuses across the country. And this case is an effort to get at that larger climate of fear and repression caused by this ideological deportation policy. I think it's, you know, complementary to the cases that have been filed by the students themselves. Can you talk about some of the witnesses like the Brown anthropologist Najah Ali and

Megan Hiska, who is a Northwestern University philosophy professor, how they've changed. changed what they do. They're no longer writing the pieces they're supposed to be publishing because of the climate in this country today and the direct physical threats. Yeah, I mean, this is a more general pattern, but we have had three witnesses testify over the last two days. You mentioned two of them. Nadia Al-Ali at Brown University, Megan Hiscott, Northwestern University. And yesterday we had Bernard. Nicol, who was until very recently the chair of the Philosophy Department at Harvard University, the three of them testified to the chill that has taken hold at university campuses across

the country. And they describe their own decisions to forego certain kinds of expression or scholarship or public presentation because of the fear of arrest and detention. Detention deportation. All three of them are foreign citizens. That has been the bulk of the testimony presented to the court over the last two days. Today, for the first time, we will hear from a government official. We're going to hear from Peter Hatch, who is a senior official in the Department of Homeland Security, who was intimately involved in the decisions to identify students to be targeted under this policy. Can you talk about the lawsuit being filed jointly with the Middle East Studies Association

programs of regional areas that are coming under attack by the Trump administration in late March, Colombia announcing it'll place its Middle Eastern, South Asian, and African Studies Department under review to secure some $400 million in federal funding that had been frozen? It's your university, Jamil, where you run the Knight Institute. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, the chill that we've described in the case, I think, is felt across the country, across universities, across departments. Now, that said, I think it falls most heavily on professors and students at universities that have already been targeted in other ways by the Trump administration. Colombia is one of those, Harvard is another.

You know, and even if you look at the students who have been arrested and detained under this policy, you know, a number of them come from Columbia University, Mosin Madawi, Yan Tsi-Chang, Mahmood Khalil, these are all Columbia students. And I think that it's fair to say that students at those universities, are especially terrified about the possibility that ICE will target them. So the goal of this lawsuit is to get broad relief, not limited to any particular student, but rather relief with respect to the policy itself.

And the policy, as we describe it, is the arrest and detention and deportation of students based on their pro-Palestinian advocacy and expression. And we point to the statements that senior government officials, including President Trump and Secretary Rubio have made in press conferences on social media in threatening students and faculty with deportation for their First Amendment protected activity. We point to cables that have been issued by the State Department, implementing the president's orders to target pro-Palestinian students.

And we point also to the testimony of government. witnesses. So far we have depositions, but starting today, we'll have testimony as well from government officials who are intimately involved in the decision to target particular students. And we'll continue to follow this case as it goes on for two weeks. But I also wanted to ask you, Jamil Jaffer, about the Knight First Amendment Institute, your organization, appearing to have won your appeal to have a lawsuit you filed on behalf of the Central American News outlet Elfado against the notorious spyware company and a group remanded to the court for reconsideration after it was thrown out for jurisdictional reasons.

Can you explain? We interviewed one of the El Faro reporters, the whole group of them, forced to leave El Salvador, afraid for their lives. Yeah. Yeah, I have to say that these reporters are so inspiring, these reporters who work with El Faro, Salvador news organization that has been sort of cruisers. in reporting on democratic movements and the threat of authoritarianism or the actuality of authoritarianism in Central America. And, you know, they were targeted a couple years ago with

spyware, probably or almost certainly operated by the Salvadoran government, but provided by NSO Group, the notorious spyware manufacturer. And we filed suit on their behalf in California. The case was dismissed by the district court on the grounds that the case didn't belong in California, the plaintiffs were in El Salvador, the defendant was in Israel, but we argued that because the attacks themselves had relied on the subversion of Apple's infrastructure in California, the case belonged in California. And we went to the appeals court to challenge the district court's dismissal of the case. My colleague, Kerry DeSell, argued it before the appeals court, A few months ago, and yesterday, as you know, the appeals court vacated the district court's dismissal,

reinstated the case, which is great news. It means that we will now be, we hope, able to litigate the merits in the district court in California. Well, I want to thank you, Jamil Jaffer, for being with us, joining us from right near the Boston Courthouse, where the AAUP versus Rubio is being heard before federal judge director of the Knight First Amendment Institute at Columbia University. And for those who want to go to our website at DemocracyNow.org, you can see our interview with the El Faro journalist Roman Grisier. Next up to Philadelphia, where the largest sanitation strike in a generation has just ended in the last few hours. Stay with us.

Ain't no love In the heart of the city Ain't no love In the heart of town Ain't no love And it sure is a pity Ain't no love But you ain't around

Oh since you've been around Ain't no love in the heart of the city Zishon B, performing his rendition of ain't no love in the heart of the city in our Democracy Now studio. This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org. I'm Amy Goodman. The largest municipal worker strike in decades in the city of Philadelphia has ended. Eight days ago, the 9,000 members of ASME District Council 33 were primarily sanitation workers walked off the job. Growing piles of trash on the streets of Philly brought the strike into clear view for city residents.

The average sanitation worker's salary in Philadelphia is currently $46,000 a year, which the unions argued is not a living wage for workers required to live within the city limits. D.C. 33 president, Greg Bowler, spoke last week. It's about trying to get these working people here who service the city every day, adequate raise that actually meets the demands that it requires to live inside of the city. That's all this is about. It's not about personal things. It's not about any of the other things. It's about these members.

These members are citizens, first and foremost, of Philadelphia, and they service every aspect across this city. They can't afford themselves to have any decent quality of life inside. the city. There's something wrong with that, and that's why we're here to try to make that change. The union also represents 911 dispatchers, water service workers, crossing guards other city workers. Some of the workers, like the 911 dispatchers, had already been ordered back to work by the court. Support for the workers came from inside and outside Philly. These are two city residents. Pay these people what they're worth. I mean, they're not worth these pennies of all

panel. That's my views on the strike. This city is very proud to be blue collar and hardworking and trade and all that type of pro-union. So the people of Philadelphia, you know, it sucks if this is what we have to do, but if this is how we got to support, you know, us, this is, you know, what we got to do. Rapper L.L. Cool J. and singer Jasmine Sullivan refused across the picket line last week and perform at the July 4th while we'll Welcome America Festival. This is rapper L.L. Colje's statement to his over three million followers on Instagram. I understand there's a lot going on in Philadelphia right now. And, you know, I never, ever, ever want to disappoint my fans. And especially in Philadelphia, you all mean too much to me.

But there's absolutely no way that I could perform across a picket line and pick up money. when I know that people are out there fighting for a living wage. I'm not doing that. And at least three activists with the Philadelphia chapter of the Sunrise Movement were arrested Monday for participating in a peaceful sit-in protest, dumping trash at City Hall in solidarity with the striking workers. Why are you here? Our workers does our dignity.

Cheryl, pay your workers. Meet CC33's demand. Well, negotiations between the Union and Philadelphia ended early this morning at 4 a.m. More details are expected later today. For more on the historic strike and what led to it, we're joined by labor historian Francis Ryan, associate professor at Rutgers University,

director of Rutgers, master of labor and employment relations program. He's author of the book AFSCME's Philadelphia story, municipal workers and urban power in the 20th century. This is the first major sanitation strike in a generation, Professor Ryan. You know, I can't help think back to Memphis, 1968, where Dr. Martin Luther King died in the midst of a sanitation worker's strike with the signs that the sanitation workers carried. I am a man. Professor Ryan, the significance of this strike, and it ending today, apparently. Yes. This is the first municipal strike in a generation. And

I think the significance of this particular moment is the role that social media has played. I really think that the union won the public relations battle over the past week. And I think this goes back to the pandemic, that the narrative of the essential worker has become so much a part of how especially the younger generation thinks. And it's clear that through social media that there is such wealth disparity in this country, and it is so obvious. And I think that your average Philadelphia citizen, in ways that I don't think has been done since 1938 when the union was founded, have come out and supported the strikers. So talk about the history of the sanitation workers, how they compare to the police,

to the firefighters in Philadelphia. Yes. The union was originally founded back in 1938 and reached their first contract in 1939. It was the first city in the nation to recognize AFSCME as their exclusive bargaining agent. And what I think makes this union so historically significant is that it's the most powerful interracial union in the city's history. And it has been able to bridge neighborhoods together, bridge the various sectors within the public workforce, and really make them a force in city politics. And I think over the years, in my own study of it, what's clear is that the union has been able to make significant gains in the lives of their members. And I think that what this strike shows is that the wages that the sanitation workers and crossing guards

and water department workers are making is not keeping up with the cost of living. And I think that there was just such frustration on the part of the members that it led them to walk over the past eight days. And I think that this is a significant moment in its history because what I saw on the picket lines last week was kind of a spark of social justice unionism that you mentioned Dr. King in Memphis in 1968, I think, is the most iconic example of that kind of social justice. And by that, I mean a trade union movement that's connected to the neighborhoods and to the community centers and to the churches and to students and to all members of the working class, not just members of the particular union. So I see that as an undercurrent of what happened this past week. And I think that the union and maybe hopefully the entire labor movement in the region will develop and build on that. You talk about social justice and particularly racial justice. Can you talk about the early representation for black workers in Philadelphia?

Yes. There's a reason why so many of the sanitation workers and first-line workers, let's say, in sewage treatment, have been African Americans. And that is because in Philadelphia, the hiring gate excluded black men and women from working, let's say, in the textile industries, in other large industries. So the one employer that was really open to so many black workers in Philadelphia was the municipal government. And they took these blue-collar jobs and built lives that way. So the fact that the union represents these workers historically, you know, it shows the racial dynamics of how the economy has worked and continues to work across the country and certainly in Philadelphia. And finally, what do you see coming next? I mean, we just got the rumblings of the end of the deal, the end of the strike this morning at four.

There hasn't even been a news conference yet, Francis Ryan. Right. Right. I think that what the union leadership will be doing is they need to convince their members that the contract is the best one that they can get. And it's the union members themselves over the next few days that will vote upon this contract. And it's really in their hands. So I, like every other citizen in the city, we're waiting to see what the union members do. And I know that the hearts of a lot of Philadelphians are with these workers as they return back to work today.

Francis Ryan, Labor historian, associate professor at Rutgers University, author of Apsme's Philadelphia story, Inissible Workers and Urban Power in the 20th century. You can go to DemocracyNow.org to see our full-time job offerings, for multiple positions. DemocracyNow.org slash jobs. I'm Amy Goodman. Thanks so much for joining us.