Democracy Now! Audio - Democracy Now! 2025-07-11 Friday

Episode Date: July 11, 2025

Headlines for July 11, 2025; Ex-NOAA Official on TX Flood: Trump Breaking “Disaster Response Chain” as Climate Crisis Escalates; Judge Blocks Trump Birthright Citizenship Order; DOJ Caught Lying About Men Sent to El Salvador; U.N. Human Rights Chief Slams Trump’s Anti-Immigrant Policies, “Militarized Response” to Protests

From New York, this is Democracy Now. There have been 96 confirmed deaths, 60 adults and 36 children. 161. In central Texas, the search for the dead continues a week after the devastating flood of July 4th, killed 96 people in Kerr County, 121 overall, and the death toll keeps rising. What can we learn from this tragedy to prevent the next as President Trump goes to the area today? We'll speak with Monica Medina, former top official at No.

That's the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. We look at the role of climate change and the Trump administration's dismantling of critical agencies of rescue and research. Then a federal judge issues a nationwide injunction against President Trump's executive order ending birthright citizenship. The ruling came in response to a nationwide class action lawsuit filed by the ACLU and other groups. We'll speak with the ACLU's League learned. Then, to the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Volker Turk. I was living, I lived in New York during COVID. I was every day grateful for the migrant workers that kept the city going. I was actually at some stage wondering if they didn't work for, if they didn't work, what would happen to all of us? We might

actually starve. We'll speak with the High Commissioner about President Trump. Trump's targeting of migrants and the changing role of the U.S. and the world under Trump. All that and more coming up. Welcome to Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org, the War and Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman. In Gaza, the U.N. Human Rights Office said it's documented the killing of nearly 800 Palestinians seeking aid. by Israeli forces. Most of those have been at aid points run by the U.S. and Israeli-backed so-called Gaza humanitarian foundation, GHF. The GHF announced it will now only operate one aid distribution site in Rafah after shuddering hundreds of others across the strip, many of them

U.N. aid sites, forcing Palestinians in desperate need of aid to move south. A group say over two million Palestinians are now crammed into less than 15% of the Gaza Strip's total area. On Thursday, an Israeli attack on Darabalach killed at least 16 Palestinians, including at least eight children, who gathered outside the Atiyata Clinic where they were waiting to receive nutritional supplements. The bodies of young children were seen lying on the street as medics scrambled to treat the wounded. children and women were thrown to the ground. They were waiting for the place to open so they could receive nutritional supplements.

You know that the crossings are closed and there's no food or drink. People are forced to wait here in order to get nutritional supplements for their children. This comes, as the UN confirmed its first very limited fuel delivery into Gaza in at least 130 days. The UN says the amount allowed income. covered less than one day of Gaza's fuel needs. Hospitals remain in critical condition. This is pediatrician Ziyadh Amasri of Al-Hulhu Hospital. There are three or four newborn babies in one incubator.

It is designed to accommodate one child, one premature baby. Our situation is like a disaster. The cramming of children leads to the spread of illness and inability to deal with them, and therefore leads to a direct danger to them. President Trump Thursday threatened to impose a 35% tariff on Canada starting August 1st, as well as 15% and 20% tariffs on other nations. As with other tariff threats he issued this week, Trump said the increased levy would be subject to negotiations.

Trump accused Canada again of allowing fentanyl to cross the border into the U.S., a claim which has been discredited. Earlier this year, Trump imposed a 50% tariff on Canadian steel and aluminum and a 25% tariff on car parts separately. Brazilian President Luis Anaciela Lula de Silva vowed Thursday to retaliate in kind if President Trump goes ahead with a threatened 50% tariff on his country. There's no doubt that first we'll try to negotiate, but if there's no negotiation, the reciprocity law will put us into practice. If he charges us 50%, we'll charge him 50%. President Trump has threatened the 50% tariff on Brazil unless Brazil drops charges against the former president and Trump ally, Bolsonaro. In May, the U.S. Court of International Trade blocked much of Trump's global tariffs agenda, ruling he exceeded his authority by invoking emergency powers.

Trump is currently appealing that case. Another federal judge has blocked the Trump administration's effort to terminate birthright citizenship by approving a class action lawsuit. The move allows plaintiffs to challenge Trump's executive order after the Supreme Court move last month to restrict nationwide injunctions, the legal mechanism that's been used in previous efforts to block Trump's unconstitutional targeting of the longstanding immigration policy. Judge Joseph LaPlante, a George W. Bush appointee, said Trump's policy would lead to irreparable harm. The class action lawsuit represents babies born in the U.S. to non-citizen parents on and after February 20th. We'll have more on this and other immigration cases later on the broadcast with the ACLU's legal learned. in California Dozens of farm workers

were detained as border agents tear gashed and clashed with dozens of protesters who intervened during a raid Thursday in Camarillo. This is a protester. These guys showed up all tough cowards and they've already tried to push us out but there's more of us here

now than there were before. At the end of the day, they're the ones coming from over there. They're not from here. Farmers who work here take more of a beating than anyone else. They're not the ones who deserve this fission treatment. The standoff lasted into the night with federal agents

blocking roads with military-style vehicles and lining up dozens of handcuffed people against a wall who'd been arrested at agricultural fields. The agents said they were executing a warrant at a cannabis farm that also grows tomatoes and cucumbers. The farm workers arrested were taken away on buses.

The Committee to Protect Journalists has called for the release of a prominent Spanish-language journalist in Georgia who's facing possible deportation after being arrested while covering no King's protests in June. Mario Guevada is originally from El Salvador. He was live streaming the demonstration when he was taken into custody. The Trump administration's ignoring a court ruling that ordered Guevada be released on bail. He's lived in the United States for some 20 years and has built a large following for his report. on anti-ice protests. This all comes as the Trump administration's banned undocumented children

in low-income families from receiving federal assistance from the Head Start program that provides federally funded educational nutrition and health care services. The National Head Start Association said in a statement, quote, Head Start programs strive to make every child feel welcome, safe, and supported and reject the characterization of any child as illegal. The U.S. State Department announced plans to slash its domestic personnel by 15% after the Supreme Court gave Trump the green light last week to gut federal agencies and carry out mass layoffs. Hundreds of State Department bureaus will also be merged or eliminated in the so-called restructuring. Homeland Security Secretary Christy Noem is called again

for the elimination of FEMA, that's the Federal Emergency Management Agency, accusing it of a slow response to the catastrophic floods in Texas. But FEMA officials say the agency's response was a direct result of Noam's own policy, which now requires that the Secretary of Homeland Security, that's Noam herself, sign off on any work costing more than $100,000 before deploying personnel, Well, something which she apparently failed to do promptly. Nome denied the claims. This comes as the death toll has risen to at least 121. One week after the historic flash floods devastated Texas.

There are still over 160 people unaccounted for. Among the rescue workers helping in the recovery effort are several teams of volunteers from Mexico, including a group of firefighters and the International Rescue crew, Topos Azteca. This is the group's founder, Hector Mendez. It's called empathy. When you see that people are suffering and you can help them, you have to go do the work. We're all the same people. We're one family. So we're going to be here until they tell us to leave. Texas Democrats have blasted Texas Governor Greg Abbott for trying to orchestrate what they call a power grab in the

the wake of the flooding disaster by adding a Republican redistricting measure to an upcoming special legislative session. Texas voting map is already heavily gerrymandered in favor of Republicans. A new United Nations report warns over four million people could die of HIV-related deaths over the next four years as a result of U.S. cuts to AIDS funding. Winnie Bienima. Executive Director of U.N. Aides called on other countries to step up their financial commitments to the most affected countries saying, quote, this is not just a funding gap. It's a ticking time bomb, she said. USAID officially closed its doors last week with the State Department purportedly absorbing its remaining workers and functions after President Trump and Elon Musk's doge operation. gutted the international aid agency. The repercussions have been felt around the world

in the Somali city of Bidoa. Health clinics warn of a worsening vaccination and malnutrition crisis among children. Many communities, many children, many families are very vulnerable following drought years over the last few years, the loss of livelihoods, the loss of livestock, and they're in desperate need.

And at the same time, that they face desperate needs with drought, with climate change impacts, they're, of course, suffering now the impact of aid cuts. Mozay Malik is with Save the Children. As the U.S. cuts aid to Somalia. U.S. war planes carried out more airstrikes in Somalia last week. It was the 49th U.S. air strike on Somalia since President Trump returned to office, according to the group, New America.

Human rights defenders are sounding the alarm as Greece moves to suspend the processing of asylum applications of people arriving from North Africa for at least three months. Greece's migration minister said anyone violating the policy would face a choice between jail or being immediately expelled. The International Rescue Committee said, quote, seeking refuge as a human right, preventing people from doing so is both illegal and inhumane, unquote. It's not unusual for Greek Coast Guard to rescue hundreds of asylum seekers a day in the

Mediterranean Sea. The Greek governments moved to restrict rights for the growing immigrant population and to criminalize activists who help refugees. Israeli officials say they believe some of Iran's underground stockpile of enriched uranium survived Israeli and U.S. bombing last month, reflecting a similar assessment issued by U.S. intelligence that the bombing campaign did not destroy Iran's enriched uranium stores. In other news from Iran, a prominent human rights lawyer, report some 100 transgender prisoners went missing and are presumed dead after Israel bombed Tehran's notorious Evin prison on June 23rd as part of its 12-day war on Iran. Israel strikes also hit Yvind's hospital ward. Yvind prison is well known for holding political prisoners and dissidents as well as for torture and executions.

Following Israel's assault, prisoners have been tried. transferred elsewhere, but their loved ones warned conditions remain dire. Here in New York, students and staff at City University are demanding school administrators rehire four faculty members who've been let go for their pro-Palestinian advocacy. They're also demanding CUNY reverse its year-long suspension of student organizer Hadika Arzou-Malik. This comes, as Trump officials acknowledge, they use the anti-Palestinian doxing website Canary mission to compile a list of student targets for deportation. The revelation came as part of testimony in the AAUP versus Rubio trial. To see our conversation about that trial in Boston,

go to Democracy Now.org. In related news, Mahmoud Khalil has filed a $20 million lawsuit against the Trump administration over his arrest, ICE detention, and defamation. Khalil also said he'd accept an official apology in lieu of the millions of dollars in damages. Elon Musk announced Thursday his AI chatbot Grok will be available in Tesla vehicles next week amidst widespread fallout over Grok's Mecca Hitler scandal. On Tuesday this week, Grok started unleashing anti-Semitic rants and calling itself Mecca Hitler on must social media platform-esque. X. Among other things, Grock told users it observed, quote,

radical leftists with Ashkenazi surnames pushing anti-white hate, unquote. Ex-C-EO Linda Yakorino resigned on Wednesday. In related news, an AI-generated voice impersonator contacted multiple officials via signal, posing as Secretary of State Marco Rubio. Those targeted include foreign ministers, a U.S. governor, and a Congress member. And in Labor News, video game, voice, and motion capture actors signed a new contract this week with gaming studios after agreeing on AI protections and fair compensation. They've been on strike for nearly a year. And those are some of the headlines.

This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org, the War and Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman. President Trump and First Lady Melania Trump will be visiting Texas today, a week after the devastating flash floods swept through the hill country of central Texas taking so many lives. The banks of the Guadalupe River rose more than 23 feet in under an hour. The death toll statewide has reached 121 and counting. Currville police officer Jonathan Lamb gave an update yesterday for Kourkeville. her county, which was hardest hit. Of 8 a.m. this morning, there have been 96 confirmed deaths, 60 adults, and 36 children.

The number of missing remains at 161. And there remained five campers and one counselor from Camp Mystic among the missing. Many questions have been raised about whether this extreme event could have been less deadly and how communities could have been more prepared from local to state and federal levels. Texas Governor Greg Abbott scolded a reporter who asked him who's to blame for the deadly flood disaster. You ask, I'm going to use your words. Who's to blame? Know this. That's the word choice of losers. Every football team makes mistakes. The losing teams are the ones that try to point out who's to blame.

The championship teams are the ones to say, don't worry about it, man, we got this. We're going to make sure that we go score again, and we're going to win this game. The way winners talk is not to point fingers. They talk about solutions. Homeland Security Secretary, Christy Knoem, has called again for the elimination of FEMA. That's the Federal Emergency Management Agency, accusing it of a slow response. But FEMA officials say the agency's response was a result of Nome's own policy. policy, which requires her, the Secretary of Homeland Security, to sign off on any work costing

more than $100,000 before deploying personnel, something which she apparently failed to do promptly. On Sunday, after the Friday of the flash floods beginning, she was sending out Instagram photos of herself asking her viewers to choose which photograph should be her official photograph of her on horseback. Nome is denying the claims that she got in the way of FEMA. FEMA's already lost 20% of its permanent staff since the start of the year as a result of Doge reduction efforts. Meanwhile, acting FEMA head, David Richardson, is nowhere to be found.

He's yet to visit Texas. Richardson made headlines just last month for reportedly telling FEMA staff he didn't know the U.S. has a hurricane season. President Trump has said he wants to eliminate FEMA. He was asked by a reporter Sunday if his cuts may have had impact. Are you investigating whether some of the cuts to the federal government left key vacancies at the National Weather Service or in the Emergency Corps? They did not. They did. I'll tell you, if you look at that, what a situation that all is, and that was really

the Biden set up. That was not our setup. But I wouldn't blame. Biden for it either. I would just say this is a hundred-year catastrophe, and it's just so horrible to watch. Scientific research and programs related to weather and climate change have also come under attack by the Trump administration. The floods occurred on July 4th. That's the same day President Trump signed his budget into law, locking in further cuts. For more on the role of climate change and the Trump administration's dismantling of critical agencies and research, we're joined now by Monica Medina, former top official at NOAA. That's the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, also co-host of the

Scientista podcast. Monica, thanks so much for joining us. Why don't we start off by you responding to Greg Abbott, the Texas governor, saying only losers look at who's to blame. Can you talk about the whole structure of emergency response and then talk about the role of climate change? Thank you so much, Amy, for having me on and thank you for continuing to cover this story the way you have. And I want to start by saying my heart goes out to the families of the victims, to the people who lost their lives in this tragic event. it was entirely preventable.

Many of those lost lives could have been saved if links in our disaster response chain hadn't been broken. And I will start by responding to the governor's comments, which I found incredibly callous, to compare this tragedy to a football game, is really what trivializes it and what causes people to think thunderstorms and extreme weather isn't the threat to their lives that it is.

And the same with the president, their budget, their proposals all the way back to before the election, we saw with Project 2025, this was what they planned to do. And they have followed through, they have cut crucial parts of the weather service, they are cutting research, they're cutting the data collection, they're cutting the satellites that give us the ability to be prepared for these storms. And what we know with climate change is that these storms are more rapidly intensified. and more severe. So at a moment when we need to up our game on disaster preparedness and on response, we are cutting the very links in the chain that keep people safe. And now it will be on individuals to take action in their own hands. And sometimes that can be even more disastrous because, as in this case, when people started finally to try to evacuate, they all tried to evacuate at once. And that caused traffic jams and people to get stuck.

in places where they were vulnerable. And again, the children on the banks of this river were never able to really protect themselves from this devastation. And a lot of people in that chain of support, that lifeline of response and preparation, a lot of those links in that chain were broken. And without having to think about who in particular was responsible,

we can look at why it happened and what we can do to make sure it doesn't happen again. So a lot of people don't understand what the National Weather Service is. It was under you when you were one of the top officials at NOAA. If you can explain how the National Weather Service has been cut, the kinds of people who are no longer, I mean, when talking about the gold mine, the reservoir of knowledge, what they did, and who is missing in those local offices because of these massive cuts.

In this particular case, the office was missing a hydrologist and a meteorologist in charge, a coordinator, the person whose very job it is to know who to call, where in the chain, if there might be a break in the chain, where to go down the chain farther down and make that phone call that could save lives. So crucial people were missing because of the cuts. One took a buyout. One position was never filled. So we know that those cuts are devastating and more are on the way. You talked about earlier in your newscast, the fact that the State Department is now preparing for mass layoffs. Those could happen in any agency.

It could happen in FEMA. It could happen at NOAA. And they're planning for more cuts. So we are missing the people who can make the difference. AI isn't going to save us. The models aren't going to save us. The pieces of paper on which the forecasts are written aren't going to save us if we aren't making that person-to-person connection. It's that last mile where things seem to have really broken down in this particular case.

The Weather Service made forecasts that gave people time to prepare, but the break came somewhere along that chain. And in fact, maybe we could have jumped the chain, connected some of those links if we'd had more, weather people in that local office. They are not bureaucrats sitting in Washington. That was something that the local congressman, Chip Roy, said, oh, we don't need more bureaucrats in Washington. These people in the local offices are community members. They live and work in these places all over the country. And if people think this was a freak accident and couldn't happen to them, they should think again, pay attention to the weather, pay attention to the warnings that come hours in advance. And I hope the president, when he's there today, will see the impact of the cuts and see how devastating these storms are and how every link in the chain is vital.

And, in fact, we need to strengthen that chain, not weaken it and break it. Former NOAA administrator Rick Spinrad said staffing cuts by the Trump administration may have contributed to the July 4th Flood's tragic outcome. He was speaking on CNN. I am convinced that the staff cuts that we saw were a contributing factor to the inability of the emergency managers to respond. The staffing was just fine, and the White House has concurred with this, to get the forecast out, to get the watches and warnings issued. But when you send a message, there's no guarantee it's being received, so someone needs to follow up. And that's the warning board nation meteorologist, a position that was vacant. Your response to that, Monica Medina, a position.

that was vacant. Agree, 100% with Rick. This is exactly what I mean by skipping the chain. The person in that office knew, who used to work there, had been there for years, knew the people to call on the ground where this might have the greatest impact. And what we're missing is those extra helping hands. Yes, we can get the forecast out, but now we have to choose between getting the forecast out in a timely way or making those calls, taking in the data that we need.

We know we're losing forecasters all over the country and the weather architecture that we have. Our weather forecasting system depends on data being collected all over the country. Weather doesn't just happen in one place. It's systemic. And we need a weather service that's strong and ready for these powerful storms that can move and pop up quickly. We can't afford to have a skeleton crew.

Yes, they had enough people to get out the forecasts, and they did. But they didn't have enough people to go that extra mile. I wanted to ask you about the FEMA head. I mean, I think if you polled most people in this country, 99.99% would absolutely not know his name. David Richardson, we have seen him nowhere. Now, let's be clear, he replaced another Trump appointee who felt that FEMA should not be dismantled. So he was pushed out. And then you have Christy Knoem, and this issue of her having to approve every $100,000 or more expenditure,

why that mattered in these critical days was that there is a FEMA rapid response team, but they didn't have the approval to move forward. The significance of this and Christy Knoem's role in actually blaming FEMA as they are dismantling it. Yes, the president, Christy Noem, the Homeland Security Secretary, state officials, they all are now trying to run from this problem, but they are responsible for it. It is on them, the president calling it a Biden problem. That's absurd. The Biden, FEMA administrator, said she would have been on the ground and she would have pre-positioned assets to be able to respond more quickly in that disaster. is a complete reversal of decades of policy by both Republican and Democratic administrations to be prepared, more and more prepared for these kinds of events. And in fact, what they're doing is making people in those places more vulnerable. And it's not just this flood alley

in Texas. It could be a fire. It could be a hurricane. It could be a flood. It could be a flood. But in another part of the country, even in a city like San Diego or San Antonio a month ago, had more than 10 people died in a flash flood like this. We have to be ready. The weather is more extreme because of climate change. It can happen more quickly. It's more deadly. And these emergency managers, people in positions of responsibility, need to be on the ground, need to be at the ready,

not posing for their photographs on their LinkedIn pages and Instagram pages. They need to be caring about and compassionate for the people who are in harm's way. Monica Medina, finally, this issue of the climate catastrophe, the same day of the floods, you have President Trump signing off on the budget that eviscerates support for renewable energy and supercharges of fossil fuel economy. As people point the finger at who's responsible and say, come on, this is, no one could have predicted this. Isn't that at the heart of climate change? Unpredictability, but more severe and more frequent climate catastrophes like this one?

It's at the very heart of what we're seeing today. and why it's even more tragic that this legislation is happening and going into effect. It was ludicrous that the Speaker of the House said, all we can do is pray. That is not true. We have the capacity. We are not powerless. What we are doing is making ourselves powerless by taking away the tools, by taking away the high technology and the know-how and the people that can give us the ability to be prepared for storms like this

and to save lives. That's what's at risk here. Finally, the cost of NOAA per person in this country, Monica Medina. It's trivial. It costs the equivalent for each citizen of a cup of coffee. It's less than $5 a year per citizen to have the kind of warnings and watches that NOAA is responsible for. And if you put in, if you add in the satellites and all the other research that we do to keep improving those forecasts and giving people more time to prepare, that's two cups of coffee in a year to cover the cost of all of that. It's trivial. We can afford it. We are not like other countries who can't afford to put these systems in place.

We have built them up with hard work and incredible research over 100 years. and now we're dismantling it in the space of a few short weeks and months. We're firing the people. We're stopping, taking in the data. We're ending the research. We're turning off the satellites. We're doing everything we possibly can to put our heads in the sand in the midst of what is increasingly dangerous weather. Monica Medina, want to thank you for being with us, former principal deputy administrator of NOAA,

the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administrative. during the Obama administration, as well as a former Assistant Secretary of State for Oceans and International Environmental and Scientific Affairs. She also co-hosts the Scientista podcast. Coming up, a federal judge has issued a nationwide injunction against President Trump's executive order ending birthright citizenship. We'll speak with the ACLU's Legal Alert. Stay with us. Every half, black waters, black waters rise over the earth. Oh, to quail, she's a pretty bird, she sings a sweet tongue.

In the rates of talk to her, she mess with her young. Black Waters, performed by Nora Brown and Stephanie Coleman in our Democracy Now studio. This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org. I'm Amy Goodman. A federal judge in New Hampshire is issued a new nationwide injunction against President Trump's executive order ending birthright citizenship. Thursday's ruling came in response to a class action lawsuit, by the ACLU and other groups on behalf of immigrant parents and infants born since February 20th when President Trump signed the executive order. The lawsuit was filed just hours after the Supreme Court's ruling last month on birthright citizenship, which curtailed the power of judges to issue nationwide injunctions, Thursday's ruling was issued by Judge Joseph LaPlante, who was appointed to the bench by Republican President George W. Bush.

Judge LaPlante said during the hearing, quote, the preliminary injunction is just not a close call to the court, the deprivation of U.S. citizenship and an abrupt change of policy that was longstanding, that's irreparable harm, he said. The ACU lawsuit argued Trump's order would result in children born to undocumented parents being rendered effectively stateless. To talk more about this case and more, we're joined by Lee Glearn, Deputy Director of the ACLU Immigrants Rights Project. Lee, thanks so much for being with us. Talk about the significance of this ruling and how you got around the Supreme Court. Yeah, this is enormously important because if these children lose citizenship, not only is that a precious right, but various benefits, life-saving type benefits, food, medical care could have been lost. to them. So we're extremely pleased that the court has issued this injunction and it's nationwide.

So what the Supreme Court said in the birthrights case that went up there, the CASA case, as you mentioned, was that plaintiffs without a class action couldn't necessarily get a nationwide injunction. It didn't rule it out completely, but it put its thumb on the scale against that and said the proper way to do it is to bring a class action and have the district court decide that a class action is proper. And so that's what we did. We brought a class action showing that this kind of relief is nationwide necessary. And the judge agreed.

So we feel like this is the way the Supreme Court told us to do it. And that's what we did. So talk about President Trump's response and what he's saying about the 14th Amendment and the idea that birthright citizenship only applied to the children of slaves. Yeah. So we obviously think that is patently wrong. The Supreme Court has said it's wrong. There is multiple cases from the Supreme Court dating back more than a century saying that the 14th Amendment applied to undocumented immigrants. And so the lower courts are properly following that. The historical research shows that it wasn't meant just to protect slaves. So we think we're absolutely on the

right side of this. I think every president has adhered to what the 14th Amendment says and what more importantly the Supreme Court says the 14th Amendment says. So we do not think there's any merit to what the government's arguing. And it's a cruel policy. It's fundamentally altering the nature of how America has viewed people born in this country. And so we're hopeful will prevail. So far, every court that's looked at this has said that we are right. that the 14th Amendment doesn't just protect us, didn't just protect slaves. It protects undocumented immigrants as well and provides birthright citizenship to them. So we'll see what the Supreme Court does.

Obviously, it'll go back to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court will have to decide whether to overrule their precedents. We hope that they will not. But explain what it would mean if Trump got his way. Yeah, the consequences would be devastating. I mean, even going forward, right? So children born on U.S. soil would no longer be citizens. They could be stateless.

They would be denied basic medical care. You know, if you go back through history, you look at how many children this would have affected and some of the most famous people that people contributed to America, I think it's hard to even understand the implications, But what it would mean, you know, quickly is you're born on U.S. soil. You used to be a U.S. citizen. That used to be a hallmark of America.

And then all of a sudden you wouldn't be a citizen. It's not clear where you'd be a citizen. I don't think children could be stateless. Consequences would be devastating. Lee, I want to ask you about another case you're involved in. The government of El Salvador is admitted to you in investigators that the Trump administration controls the fate of nearly 140 Venezuelan immigrants who were transferred from the U.S. to the notorious Secaut megap prison. The revelations contradict claims by Trump officials and DOJ lawyers who've

repeatedly said they don't have the jurisdiction or power to facilitate the return of the immigrants who were renditioned to El Salvador from the U.S. without due process. In the document the Salvador and government states, quote, the jurisdiction and legal responsibility for these persons lie exclusively with the competent foreign authorities. Talk about how you got this document. And does it mean that Justice Department lawyers have repeatedly lied in court? Yeah, I'm glad you asked about that because I think this is a remarkable turn of events. So just first of all, how we got the UN document, our friends at human rights first a long time ago wrote to the UN on behalf of a few

families asking what's happened to their families. The UN sent, as they're supposed to, sent the inquiry to the El Salvador government. El Salvador responded fairly quickly to the UN saying we are not responsible for these detainees. This is the responsibility of the state that sent us these detainees. And so it was, you know, a sort of explosive document to say the least because the United States government had been repeatedly telling courts, we have not. we can't do anything about these individuals at SICOT. It's solely El Salvador's responsibility. What's remarkable, and so that finally the document was sent to the families, the families gave it to us, but what's remarkable is that the United States did not give us the document or give us the court,

give the court the document. We specifically asked for all those types of documents and what's called discovery. they admitted that document. Obviously, it was relevant. I mean, more than relevant. It's explosive. So we'll have to see, we've told the court about it now. We're going to have to see what other documents were not turned over to us. But it directly contradicts what the United States has been saying.

I mean, as you mentioned, that night of March 15th, they sent more than 100 men, maybe over 200 men, without any due process to this. prison, they may languish there for the rest of their lives in one of the most notorious places in the world. The United States is saying, well, okay, maybe there was a due process violation, but what do you want us to do about it? El Salvador controls everything. Now we all a sudden find this document where El Salvador is saying the opposite. We'll see how the U.S. government tries to whitewash it, but I suspect there are many other documents out there that are relevant, and so we will begin asking for those documents. So essentially, I mean, what's very right, is that Buckele, who describes himself as the coolest dictator in the world, is getting

paid millions of dollars to incarcerate these men. So the U.S. has a direct relationship. If it took away the money, what would happen? Yeah, so I'm glad you brought that up, because I just want to make clear that this document doesn't change things in our mind. It simply confirms what we already new. And what I think everyone knows is, of course, the U.S. controls this. As you said, the U.S. is paying for these detainees to be there. El Salvador has no relationship to these Venezuelan men. These are not Salvadoran citizens. They're holding them there as if a private prison and they're getting paid for it if the U.S. took the money away or said, we need these detainees back because the federal court has said that due process was violated. Of course, we could get them

back. So we knew that all the time. And I think everyone sort of understands. that the importance of this document is it confirms El Salvador are saying it. But you're absolutely right. We are paying as if we were paying a private prison to hold these individuals. Well, I want to thank you so much for being with us. Legal Learned, Deputy Director of the ACOU Immigrants Rights Project to see our interviews about some of these men, like the Venezuelan hairdresser, Andri Hernandez-Romero. Go to DemocracyNow.org.

Coming up, UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Volker Turk. No, we're going to see you know, with the cause of nothing in the world that we're in the commasraughts

a rastro a man to see to us to get to want to end up never never again never again

by La Santa Celia in our Democracy Now studio. This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org. I'm Amy Goodman. We end today's show with UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Volker Turk. I spoke to him last week when I went to Geneva, Switzerland. We were speaking in the UN Human Rights Council. In part one of our conversation, we talked about Israel's war on Gaza. Now we turned to part two. We talked about immigration policy in the U.S., climate change, and more. I started by asking the U.N. High Commissioner about the changing role of the U.S. in the world. So, Falker Tirk, let's talk about the role of the United States, the most powerful country on Earth.

In March, you expressed deep concern about a fundamental shift in direction in the United States under President Trump. Can you elaborate? Look, I have been very worried about what happened. on the deportations and the treatment of migrants, for example. And I've been worried about it because I see also the vilification of migrants and refugees in the public debate. I was living, I lived in New York during COVID. I was every day grateful for the migrant workers that kept the city going in terms of making sure that the garbage is collected, that we get our food.

I was actually at some stage wondering if they didn't work for, if they didn't, work what would happen to all of us. We might actually starve. And now I see the vilification of migrant workers. I see a debate that reminds me of times that we thought we had all overcome. And yes, that worries me because it polarizes and divides the society and it pits one group against the other. And that's not what I know the United States to be. The United States, for me, is a country that helped resettle refugees who were extremely vulnerable, who were persecuted. I remember when in previous times, the highest number of refugees that came from war-torn countries were accepted and hosted in the United States. And I wish that this part of the United States comes out much more strongly in an environment that, frankly, so divided.

So let's talk about Seikot for a minute. In May, you expressed alarm over the Trump administration's use of the Salvadoran mega-prison. to detain immigrants without due process, potentially for life. Your office has received information from family members and lawyers regarding more than a hundred Venezuelans believed to be held at Seikot. Can you talk about the men who have been shipped to this mega-prison? So we were in touch with family members who didn't know where their loved ones were. which for us, of course, always raises the alarm bells when it comes to,

are they missing, are they disappeared, what happened to them? And it is an obligation of the state when you engage in deportations to inform, you know, to provide information. And frankly, the fact that it went to a third country and not to the country of origin after due process, because due process always has to be guaranteed, is a huge worry and a huge concern. We don't have, I wrote to the president of El Salvador about the conditions. We don't have access there.

President Bucheli, who called himself the coolest dictator in the world. Well, we wrote to him, and we have engaged with the El Salvadorian authorities, because, of course, there are human rights concerns that are attached to what's happening, and we have just, we have not been able to have access. Has he responded? No. he has not, which happens sometimes but at the same time as you know, including in the council that you see behind you, the council is also for us

the place where we can put issues and situations into the spotlight of international attention. So for us it's also very important when we don't get the cooperation that we need to actually mention it then in the public arena. And he hasn't let you into that prison? We have not had access since that period.

Talking about immigration, what's happening to immigrants in the United States, you urged U.S. authorities earlier this month to respect the right to peaceful assembly and refrain from using military force in the context of the huge protests around Trump's policies. Your reaction to Trump overriding California's governor, deciding in to send in the First National Guard than the Marines to crack down on the protests? Well, I made it absolutely clear before the Council that any military response to the freedom of peaceful assembly is absolutely not warranted when indeed you have peaceful assembly. That's a fundamental freedom.

So I hope that it will come to rethink of this type of approaches in the future, because we know what it means when you militarize responses to essentially law enforcement issues. But there is always the fundamental right of freedom of expression, of peaceful assembly, of solidarity with people who are vulnerable. And that needs to be respected. You once quoted the 20th century philosopher Antonio Gramsci, imprisoned by the Italian fascist Mussolini for 12 years till his death.

You are making a comparison between fascism and Europe during early 20th century in the surge of populism and nationalism and xenophobia today. You quoted Gramsci saying, The old world is dying and the new world struggles to be born. Now is the time of monsters. Who are the monsters today? The monsters today are. the lack of solidarity and empathy and compassion

that we see unfortunately reign not just in North America but also in Europe in other parts of the world I mean I just came from Sri Lanka just to give you an example after 16 years of when the war ended in a brutal way I still see the ghosts of the past haunting the present and it's as a result of fundamental divisions and polarizations and polarizations and prejudice and racism

that we saw what happened in the past and I do think that the monsters of today is the absence of a public space where you can have a proper discussion where you can agree to disagree but you actually have a debate about challenges. What I see is people getting warped into their own bubbles,

their echo chambers, not listening to the other anymore and not understanding the grievances that exist and trying to find a solution to it. So for me, it's actually politics that has become quite tone deaf to the real concerns that people have. And that worries me a lot because the absence of a public space means the absence of compromise,

the absence of finding a solution, the absence of debating and disagreeing or agreeing and fighting it out, but in a constructive way that actually leads to solutions. There's just a piece in the Washington Post about the cutting of USAID funding in the world. And it said children clung to life in Sudan by the slenderest of threads supported by community soup kitchens. Then the USAID funding cuts came and their mothers watch them starve to death one by one. Can you talk about the effects of this drastic cut, the ending essentially of USAID in the world,

programs that have been established for years, and also the cuts to the United Nations and the effects that that has had, those cuts by the United States by President Trump? So it is extremely, extremely unfortunate that USAID is no longer there in the way that we can. know it because USAID provided immediate relief to millions of people. It made sure that human rights NGOs at the grassroots level, for example, I've met many of them, are running out of funding and may no longer be able to be the fighters for freedom and justice. It means that, as you just mentioned, in many conflict situations around the world, we simply will not be able to provide the humanitarian assistance that is required.

And that means, again, real life consequences. People will die. People will end up in extremely vulnerable situations and it will lead to more potentially more conflict. I mean, what the US generously has done for decades has been its soft power. It has also influenced things in a positive way. Now that's gone and yes, I'm worried about it.

The same with the United Nations, the fact that some of the massive funding, my own organization, we are not going, our funding was cut, which means that we will not be able to continue doing the monitoring and the reporting and the documenting and the intervening and being the bridge between civil society and the institutions of the state, for example, in Colombia. We have to cut our operation by half. And that has, again, we are an important part of the peace process. It means that this will suffer. And yes, these are the real-life consequences of such decisions, which I regret very much.

I just watched you give an opening address here at the UN Human Rights Council. You were talking about climate change. We, at Democracy now, have attended the UN climate summits from Copenhagen in 2009 on to what will be on the edge of the rainforest, the Brazil UN climate summit. We also just came here from New York. We were experiencing a major heat dome in New York, came to Geneva. You're experiencing here the same thing. Extreme weather raging across the globe.

The Financial Times reporting Sunday, quote, temperatures reach dangerous highs as heat domes hit Europe and the U.S. Volker Turk, you've called for states, corporations, to be held to account, including for damage to our climate and environment. Can you relate the climate catastrophe that we are experiencing to immigration to the crises that we're experiencing around the world with that, to poverty, to indigenous rights, and who is responsible? So the climate crisis is absolutely a human rights crisis.

There's no doubt about it. And one of the big collateral damages of the world, wars that we see today is actually that there is less focus on the big challenges of our time, such as climate change. I mean, a couple of years ago, I remember when I came to New York in 2019, there were young people on the streets. Everyone was protesting and, you know, activating Fridays for future. There were all these movements about making sure that climate change and climate action is addressed properly. Today, you don't see it in the same way. And despite the fact that we already live the consequences.

I mean, the heat dome over the Europe, I mean, we decided not to wear ties anymore as a result, but it shows when it also affects us, what does it mean for indigenous peoples? What does it mean for the most vulnerable? What does it mean for a woman who has six children in the Sahel, how she's going to survive? And yes, people will probably have to leave

behind their livelihoods, and what will happen, will see massive internal migration in the countries, in the climate hotspots around the world. I don't think we should ever go into this, that they will all come to Europe or the United States. They won't. They will try to survive in their own countries, but under abominable circumstances. So yes, the climate emergency is one of the big, big challenges of our time. And I hope that politicians refocus on it and spend their political.

political capital and their political energy on trying to resolve it. And we have the solutions to it. Your response to President Trump, basically his mantra is drill, baby drill? Well, renew energy, renew energy, renew energy, and let's get into a much better world. I mean, we know that the fossil fuel is not going to be the future. That's long, it's the past and even behind the past. So we absolutely need a rethink of all of these things. Just outside the UN Human Rights Council, right outside the main door in the hallway,

the council has agreed to the Saharawi women building a haima, a tent that is so familiar to the indigenous people of western Sahara. They have fought for decades to organize a UN-backed referendum on independence. Volker Turk, I saw you a few years ago. You reiterated the right to self-determination when addressing the Sahrawi issue, calling for placing human rights at the heart of the issue. What's been the Security Council, the UN General Assembly's decisions regarding the issue of Western Sahara? Basically, we have decisions taken by the Security Council that have not been implemented. That's the fact of the matter. Occupied by Morocco since 1975.

So we have, and that's, again, one of those long, protracted situations where we haven't seen a resolution. On the human rights front, I've asked to send a mission there, but unfortunately I have not been successful in it. UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Volker Turk, to see the full interview, including his remarks on Gaza, Go to DemocracyNow.org. We were speaking in Geneva, Switzerland. I'm Amy Goodman.