Democracy Now! Audio - Democracy Now! 2025-08-19 Tuesday

Episode Date: August 19, 2025

Democracy Now! Tuesday, August 19, 2025

From New York, this is Democracy Now. And we supported the idea of the United States of personal health, President Trump, to stop this war to make a diplomatic way of finishing this war. And we are ready for trilateral, as President said, this is a good signal about trilateral. I think this is very good. In an unusual show of diplomatic force, seven senior European leaders joined Ukrainian President Zelensky for meetings with President Trump at the White House Monday. Trump's now trying to arrange a summit between Zelensky and Russian President Vladimir Putin to end the war in Ukraine.

but Trump did not call for an immediate ceasefire. But we can work a deal where we're working on a peace deal while they're fighting. They have to fight. I wish they could stop. I'd like them to stop. But strategically, that could be a disadvantage for one side or the other. Will there be a negotiated peace to end the war in Ukraine? What could it look like?

What's at stake for Ukraine, Russia, Europe, and the U.S.? We'll host a debate between political science professor, John M. Mearsheimer in Chicago, and Ukrainian historian and socialist activist Dennis Pilash, who will join us from Kiev, the capital of Ukraine. Then to California, where an immigrant rights activist and nurse, was violently detained while monitoring ICE agents earlier this month. Get off her head! Get off me! Get off her head! Get off me!

Get off her head! Get off me! Get off her head! Get off her head! We'll speak to Amanda Trebek, a U.S. citizen who was violently detained, then released from federal custody, without charge. All that and more coming up. Welcome to DemocracyNow. DemocracyNow.org, the war in peace report. I'm Amy Goodman. President Trump says he's arranging trilateral talks aimed at ending Russia's war in Ukraine.

Trump made the claim after wrapping up a hastily arranged summit at the White House Monday with European and NATO leaders joined by Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. Trump promised the U.S. would help guarantee Ukraine's security in any future peace deal with Russia, but said European countries would lead the efforts. Trump did not clarify whether he'd send U.S. forces to Ukrainian soil if necessary. German Chancellor Friedrich Meertz said Berlin remained open to participating in a peacekeeping mission. He also said the next round of negotiation should come only after Russia and Ukraine agree to a ceasefire. Let's try to put pressure on Russia because the credibility of these efforts, these efforts we are undertaking today, are depending on at least a ceasefire from the beginning of the serious negotiations from next step on.

Trump countered. He hopes to move more directly toward a peace deal with Russia, adding, quote, I don't think you need a ceasefire, unquote. Trump then went on to pause the summit to call Russian President Vladimir Putin. The Kremlin later confirmed the roughly 40-minute call, calling it frank and very constructive without stating if Putin had agreed to meet with Ukrainian President Zelensky. Throughout the day, Trump was friendly and cordial with Zelensky, Unlike in February when Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance berated the Ukrainian president before White House aides, asked him to leave the White House. Trump's pressing Ukraine to exchange territory for an end to the war, something Zelensky's rejected.

Meanwhile, Russia's foreign ministry called the prospect of NATO forces in Ukraine categorically unacceptable. We'll host a debate on Monday's White House summit and Russia's war in Ukraine after headlines. Tens of thousands of Palestinians are fleeing Gaza City as Israel intensifies its attacks on the Gaza Strip's largest population center ahead of a full-scale military invasion. Al Jazeera reports Israeli attacks today have killed at least 26 people among them eight Palestinians, killed in a strike on tents, housing displaced families in Khan Yunus, and another four killed killed an attack on tents in Dera Balah. Two people were reportedly shot and killed seeking aid at a distribution site run by the notorious Israel and U.S.-backed so-called Gaza Humanitarian Foundation. Meanwhile, an airdrop of humanitarian aid over Darabala on Monday set off a scramble amongst desperately hungry people hoping for a meal. Displaced Palestinian Amin Abu Muxib came away empty-handed. This is aerial.

humiliation, not airdropping. The package is filled with about 12 boxes. More than a thousand people gather on the package. People crush each other. And it's not enough for a single family. People are fighting. There are like 10 fights on each package. And people are dying. Here you hear gunfire. There you find someone dead under the package. We can't take it anymore. Hamas says it has agreed to a proposal for a 60-day ceasefire that would see it release 10 living hostages in the bodies of the 18 dead hostages in return for hundreds of Palestinians being held in Israeli prisons. The proposal is almost identical to an earlier ceasefire plan advanced by the U.S. envoy, Steve Whitkoff, Israeli media report. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has dismissed

the offer and signaled he still plans to invade Gaza City and forcefully displace its entire population to the southern Gaza Strip. This after, on Sunday, close to a million of Israelis demanded that Netanyahu not invade Gaza City and agree to a ceasefire and a release of the hostages in the Democratic Republic of Congo, Islamic State-backed fighters, armed with machetes, killed at least 52 civilians, including women and children in the eastern regions of Benny and Libero. That's according to the UN, which reports that in recent days, ISIL-backed rebels with the Allied Democratic forces set homes on fire, tied up residents, and attacked them with

machetes and hose. ADF is among several militia groups clashing over land and resources in the mineral-rich Eastern DRC. This is a local official from Beni. This is a genocide happening in silence. Even the international community says nothing. For 11 years already, the population has been victim of these massacres. We must speak to the authorities, international authorities, national authorities, provincial and local authorities, to restore peace. We are tired of maskers of all kinds. We are tired of burying our brothers. We are tired of this carnage. The latest massacre comes amidst ongoing tensions between the DRC's military and Rwanda-backed M23 rebels, with both sides missing a Monday deadline to

reach a final peace agreement during talks brokered by Qatar. Democratic state lawmakers returned to Texas Monday, ending a two-week walkout that broke quorum in the state legislature and temporarily block Republicans from ramming through a new gerrymandered congressional map for Texas at the behest of President Trump. Republican leaders had threatened to arrest or remove from office over 50 Democratic lawmakers who fled Texas earlier this month for Illinois, New York, and other states. On Monday, Texas's Republican Speaker of the House, Dustin Burroughs, said Democratic lawmakers would only be allowed to leave the House chambers if they agreed to be released into the custody of Texas law enforcement. Democratic state rep, Nicole Collier of Fort Worth, was forced to sleep on the floor of Texas's state capital overnight after she refused the order rather than accept the monitoring. Been assigned to our Democratic state representatives only to ensure that they get back to the Capitol to pass the racist maps and all the other legislation that they want that can harm and disenfranchise. marginalized communities. President Trump said Monday, he'll soon sign an executive order

banning voting by mail, calling the longstanding practice of fraud. Writing on social media, Trump also said he planned to target, quote, highly inaccurate, very expensive, and seriously controversial voting machines, unquote. Trump's pledge came just days after he made these comments to Fox News, following talks in Alaska with Russian President Vladimir Putin. You know, Vladimir Putin said something. One of the most interesting things, he said your election was rigged because you have mail-in voting. Constitutional scholars have rejected Trump's plans to ban mail-in ballots and voting machines by executive order as a non-starter, as state and local governments are in charge of administering

elections. Newsmax has agreed to pay $67 million to settle a lawsuit brought by Dominion voting systems over the far-right TV channels repeated lies about the 2020 election. Following Joe Biden's victory, Newsmax personalities and guests spread the baseless conspiracy theory that the election results were fraudulent and that Dominion's voting hardware and software were to blame. The settlement comes more than two years after Fox News agreed to pay Dominion more than $787 million to settle a similar case. So they didn't have to go to court. Two more Republican governors have announced their dispatching National Guard troops to Washington, D.C.

to assist President Trump's federal takeover of law enforcement in the nation's capital. The additional forces from Mississippi and Louisiana bring the total number of. of National Guard troops deployed to D.C. to over 1,800. Vermont's Republican Governor Phil Scott has declined a federal request to send his state's National Guard soldiers. Meanwhile, Reuters reports the White House has dispatched social media teams alongside FBI agents executing arrest warrants to generate videos promoting Trump's crackdown on D.C. The practice violates longstanding Justice Department. against politicizing criminal investigations.

The social media teams filmed and edited a video showing the arrest of Sean Charles Dunn, a Justice Department employee who was fired and charged with assault after he shouted fascists at federal agents and hurled a subway sandwich at one of them. A video of Dunn's arrest posted on X has garnered 2.4 million views. Trump's hand-picked interim U.S. attorney for Washington, D.C., former Fox News personality, Janine Piro, celebrated Dunn's arrest. And then he took a subway sandwich about this big and took it and threw it at the officer. He thought it was funny. Well, he doesn't think it's funny today because we charge it with a felony, assault on a police officer.

And we're going to back the police to the hilt. In California, hundreds of people gathered for a vigil Friday demanding justice for 52-year-old Carlos Roberto Montoya, an immigrant from Guatemala, who was struck and killed on the freeway as he tried to escape federal immigration agents during a raid at a Home Depot in Monrovia. Montoya has lived in the United States for three years and was a day laborer. He has four daughters and grandchildren. His death comes as federal immigration rates have included. increasingly targeted immigrant workers with activists condemning companies like Home Depot over their complicity. And the union representing thousands of striking Air Canada flight attendants announced early Tuesday morning.

It had reached a tentative contract deal with the airline, ending a days-long walkout. The agreement must still be approved by the 10,000 flight attendants who walked off the job Saturday demanding higher wages. The workers defied government issued orders. deeming their strike illegal, risking fines, and even possible jail time. This is Mark Hancock, president of the Canadian Union of Public Employees, speaking Monday in Ontario. We're going to stay strong.

We're going to stay committed to making sure that those workers can do the job that they love doing and actually be able to afford a roof over their heads, to afford caring for their families. And if it means folks like me, going to January, then so be it. If it means our union being fined, then so be it. The tentative deal comes after about eight months of negotiations, Air Canada is Canada's largest airline. And those are some of the headlines. This is Democracy Now. Democracy Now.org, the war and peace report. When we come back, we look at the summit at the White House yesterday.

What is the future for Russia and Ukraine? host a debate from Chicago and Kyiv. Stay with us. Now we're going to be a lot of you, Kedito and like you, Kedito and like you, because is not doing our Democracy Now studio. This is Democracy Now.org. the War and Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman. President Trump says he's begun arranging for a summit between Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and Russian President Vladimir Putin,

followed by a trilateral summit with the goal of ending Russia's war on Ukraine. Trump made the announcement after hosting a high-stakes summit at the White House with Zelensky and seven European leaders, British Prime Minister Kirstarmer, French President Emmanuel MacLeck Italian Prime Minister, Georgia Maloney, German Chancellor Friedrich Meertz, Finland's President Alexander Stubb, European Commission President Ursula van der Leyen, and NATO Secretary General Mark Ruta. The meeting came three days after Trump held face-to-face talks with Putin in Alaska. Major differences remain between Ukraine and Russia.

Trump also talked to Putin for 40 minutes in the midst of his meeting. with the European leaders in Zelensky. Putin's insisting Russia keep areas of Ukraine that it seized, including the Dombas region. During his meeting with Trump, Zelensky stressed the importance of security guarantees for Ukraine. And this is a part, I think. It's not a part for the war and to defend us. It also will be a part for security guarantees to strengthen our army, to rearm Ukraine, army, this is very, very important. And it depends how much money we need to rearm. For example,

the question of air defense, we spoke about it with President Trump. And I'm happy that we have now bilateral decisions and we work on it with production, American products. Nobody in Europe has so many air defense like patriarchs. For example, we need it very much. And this is also about defending. After the meeting, President Trump promised the U.S. would help guarantee you Ukraine's security in any future peace deal with Russia, but said European countries would lead the efforts and didn't clarify whether he'd send U.S. forces to Ukrainian soil. The Financial Times reports Ukraine offered the U.S. $100 billion weapons deal to help win security guarantees.

During the White House summit, German Chancellor Friedrich Mears pressed for a ceasefire before Russia and Ukraine hold direct talks. the next steps ahead are the more complicated ones now the path is open you opened it last Friday but now the way is open for complicated negotiations and to be honest we all would like to see a ceasefire the latest from the next meeting on I can't imagine that the next meeting would take place without a ceasefire so let's work on that and let's work on that and Let's try to put pressure on Russia because the credibility of these efforts we are undertaking today are depending on at least a ceasefire from the beginning of the serious negotiations from next step on. So I would like to emphasize this aspect and would like to see a ceasefire from the next meeting, which should be a trilateral meeting wherever it takes place.

Although before Trump's summit with Putin in Alaska, he promised severe consequences if Putin didn't agree to a ceasefire. He is now dismissing the need for an immediate ceasefire in Ukraine. I don't think you need a ceasefire. You know, if you look at the six deals that I settled this year, they were all at war. I didn't do any ceasefires. And I know that it might be good to have. but I can also understand strategically why, well, you know, one country or the other wouldn't want it. You have a ceasefire and they rebuild and rebuild and, you know, maybe they don't want that.

But if you look at the six deals that we made peace, you know, long-term, long-running wars, I didn't do any ceasefires. This all comes as Russia launched 270 drones and 10 missiles overnight. in what's being called Russia's largest air strike on Ukraine since July. We're joined now by two guests. John Mearsheimer is a professor of political science at the University of Chicago, author of most recently How States Think the Rationality of Foreign Policy. In 2014, he wrote a widely red piece for foreign affairs headlined, Why the Ukraine Crisis is the West's fault.

He's joining us from Chicago. And in Kyiv, the capital of Ukraine, we're joined by Dennis Pillash, a Ukrainian political scientist, historian, a member of the Ukrainian Democratic Socialist Organization, and an editor at Commons Journal of Social Criticism. Let's begin with Dennis Pilash in Kiev. Actually, we're going to go to Professor Mearsheimer in Chicago. if you can respond to what's taken place. We just had you on Friday, but that was even before the Trump-Puton summit in Alaska. So these developments that are quite historic over the last few days from that summit to the meeting at the White House and what you think has been accomplished. Well, I don't think that much has changed, Amy.

I think the Europeans and the Ukrainians remain deeply committed to a cease. fire, the Russians are opposed, and Trump made it clear that there was not going to be a ceasefire. With regard to a real peace agreement, I think the sides remain so far apart that it's hard to imagine that you're going to get a peace agreement. What Trump would like to do is he'd like Zelensky and Putin to sit down and work out a deal. But I don't understand how that could possibly happen, given the position of the Europeans and the Ukrainians on one side and the Russians on the other side. The third thing that I take away from this meeting is that you see that the Europeans and Ukraine are basically joined at the hip. There is hardly any daylight between

the positions on each side. And the outlier here is really Trump. If you look at the meeting, You just look at the photographs. You listen to the conversation. It's really like Trump arrayed against the Europeans and the Ukrainians. And I think what Trump is trying to do, and you saw this reflected in the meeting, is he's trying to move away ever so gently from this conflict. He is no longer interested in taking full responsibility. And he's putting the burden of dealing with the Russians on the Ukrainians and on the Europeans.

And this is why he's pushing for a meeting between President Putin and President Zelensky that does not include him because he wants them to figure out how to solve it. He's tried. He's been unable to do it. I want to get Dennis Pilash's take. We just had our connection drop in the Capitol Kyiv, but I think we're reconnected right now. The Ukrainian political scientist, historian, member of the Ukrainian Democratic. Socialist Organization. As you look at what happened in Alaska, Dennis, on Friday, right through

to this historic meeting at the White House on Monday, your response to whether you think there's been any progress made, and if you think a peace deal is on the horizon? Well, honestly, it isn't likely that a real peace deal or even a ceasefire is on the horizon. Because the war that was deliberately unleashed on Ukrainian people by the Russian leadership and that is now ongoing for more than three years, well, the coming of Trump to the White House has only made the things worse because what we have seen from the current administration in Washington this arguably the most far-right administration in the US history was the appeasement strategy was like emphasizing their affinity with Putin and with other authoritarian leaders

throughout the world and this Alaska meeting many people were really afraid that this can be something akin to Munich conference back in 1938 with carving Czechoslovakia without the presence even of the representatives of the government, Edward Banish, the president and others. But ultimately it seems that no real difference was made. And now in the latest meeting, maybe President Zelenskyy has to set another world record for saying thank you per minute or appeasing, pleasing the Magdaloreen's boyfriend with his suit. But it seems that the positions of the sides, they haven't really changed and that Russia

is still pushing for this maximalist demands for grabbing as much Ukrainian land as it can, even that, those territories, and this means also the people, living there that haven't been occupied by Russian forces yet. And ultimately there is no actual Bonafide agreement and no real intention to make real peace talks and really find any sort of compromise. Because this is all about this right of the force that is imposed on a weaker country.

And now many people were going across with all these narratives of the so-called proxy war. But now when we see images of, for instance, Ukrainians being deported together with other people subject to this completely humiliating ICE procedures from the US, and no person is illegal. And for instance, images of a Russian armored personal carrier waving both Russian and American flags

invading Ukrainian land. Maybe this means that in this situation, Trump and Putin are clearly on one side, that Putin is now being supported and promoted by the current U.S. administration. What do you think of President Trump backtracking on the issue of a ceasefire? He seems to be saying they can get to a peace deal without needing an interim ceasefire. But the idea that before he met with President Putin, he said Putin would face serious consequences, you know, sanctions if he didn't agree to a ceasefire. But now he says he doesn't see the need. And that in other peace deals he's negotiated, they didn't have to have a ceasefire first.

Yeah, so this is another concession made by Trump for Putin. and it was rather uncommon for him to make any harsh statements towards the Kremlin today because ultimately from his coming to power till now, the main line was really to find a ways to really court Vladimir Putin and it seems that in order to be really greeted by the current US government, you need to be at least a war criminal, by the International Criminal Court, so this goes for both Netanyahu and Putin. And if you are not, then you are humiliated and you are put into completely uneven,

unequal conditions by Trump, Wenz and their cronies. So this means that the line of the Russian government, that is to deny any prospect for the ceasefire And this fire should be the meaningful prerequisite for any sort of further talks. Yes, if they don't agree to stop killing civilians, to stop attacks on civilian infrastructure, what are any prospects of any, you know, like, agreement if they cannot make this simple concession? And this was the line of Moscow for the entirety of this time to deny. to reject any proposals, any suggestions to stop killing civilians. And just these days we've experienced another attacks on the Ukrainian cities.

It has to be said that June and July have been one of the deadliest months since the outset of the full-scale invasion back in February 2020 by the number of civilian dust toll. And for instance, recently Sumi State University premise has been destroyed by Russian shelling and this meant that another educational facility joined thousands of university schools, hospitals that have been destroyed or damaged by Russian attacks. So you could see no even pretending to go to some compromise on the Russian side. It's still their language ultimatums and pressuring and actually

raising Ukrainian cities to the ground. So let's get the response of Professor John Mearsheimer. If you can respond to what Dennis Pillash has said and also talk about this issue of, you know, if Ukraine doesn't join NATO that they get, and it might have surprised many, especially on the MAGA right, this possibility of U.S. security guarantees, which could lead up to,

U.S. troops on the ground in Ukraine. Well, my main argument in response to what Mr. Pelage said is that he greatly overestimates what President Trump could do here. The fact is the Russians say unequivocally that they will not accept a ceasefire. What is Trump supposed to do? He can't force the Russians to accept a ceasefire. What Trump has done is he's recognized reality, which is you're not going to get a ceasefire. And therefore, he's moved on to talking about a peace agreement.

He has no choice. Trump is powerless in this regard. Secondly, with regard to working out some sort of peace deal, Trump can't do it. And the reason Trump can't do it is because the Ukrainians and the Europeans on one side, and the Russians on the other side are miles apart. There's no basis for compromise here. And Trump can't create a basis for compromise. And furthermore, he can't coerce the Russians into agreeing to Ukraine's terms.

And he can't coerce the Ukrainians and the Europeans on the other side to agree to Russia's terms. So this one is going to be settled on the battlefield. And what Trump wants to do is he wants to back away, and he wants to turn responsibility for this war, mainly over to the Europeans and the Ukrainians. Let them see what happens on the battlefield, and then they could work out an arrangement with Putin. This is the direction that we're headed in. Now, the second question you ask, Amy, is what do I think about security guarantees? What the Ukrainians want, and what the Europeans want, is for the United States.

United States to give Ukraine a viable security guarantee, something akin to Article 5 of the NATO treaty. This is categorically unacceptable to the Russians. This war is all about Ukraine's membership in NATO and Ukraine having a security guarantee from NATO. That's unacceptable to the Russians. And you have to understand that if Ukraine is not in NATO, Yet Ukraine has a security guarantee, a real security guarantee from the United States, that's effectively the same thing as being inside of data. And the Russians are not going to tolerate that. So what you'll get, if you get a security guarantee,

is some sort of vague language that has no real punch to it. And at the same time, the Russians will make it clear that they will have a veto over any U.S. or European commitment to coming to the aid of Ukraine at a crisis. So you're not going to get a security guarantee. You're not going to get European troops stationed on Ukrainian soil. And the Russians are going to continue to demand that Ukrainian disarmed to the point where it has no offensive capability against Russia. But, of course, the Europeans are arguing, and Ukraine is armed. arguing that if anything, what should happen here is that the Europeans and the Americans

should be allowed to rearm Ukraine and make it stronger. This is antithetical to the Russians. Again, this is why you have no agreement on substance. And even if Trump succeeds in getting Putin and Zelensky to sit down and talk, I ask, where is that going to lead, given that they don't agree on anything? On the issue of security guarantees, you know, Article 5-like guarantees, because Ukraine isn't a part of NATO, Dennis Pilash, what are your thoughts on what this would mean, whether it's European security guarantees or U.S.? Well, first of all, I would like to respond to this general narrative about this everything about NATO. Ukraine wasn't going to be a member of NATO because of the position of the major European member states.

And this was well known. And actually the main salesman for NATO, both in Ukraine and in the Nordic countries, in Sweden and Finland, was Putin himself because prior to the annexation of Crimea and to string up the war in Donbass by Russia, the support for NATO membership in Ukraine was rather low. And it was a very vague prospect that wasn't really pursued. And only after all this Russian aggression happened, it was skyrocketing. And the same goes for Finland, for instance. And given the fact that Finland joined NATO and the Russia-NATO border has doubled,

we see no reaction on the side of Russia. If we give into this assumption that it's all about NATO, then they would panic that NATO is coming to St. Petersburg and so on. But it doesn't happen because actually the reason for the war is much more complex and it's rooted in the agency of Russian imperialism itself. And what's really appalling in many people on the left falling for these narratives, that are pursued by Mr. Mersheimer, is that we really abandon class analysis.

We forget about what everything is about, that states aren't some sort of monolithic interests. They are comprised of different classes and their contradictions, and even the ruling classes have their internal contradictions. And there is lots of reasons, economic, ideological, political, that lay behind these complex issues. And just by, you know, rejecting domestic factors as shaping international policy as well, we go nowhere. So now if we speak about what's happening now, so obviously Ukraine needs some sort of guarantees.

And without it, it seems completely futile because the so-called peace agreement will mean just not just abandoning millions, of people for the sake of the occupier, with all the brutality of occupation. And I can just mention, I used to work briefly with the journalist, Victoria Rochina. So she was kidnapped at the occupied territories. She was detained illegally by the Russians. She was ultimately tortured and killed. And then her body was returned with organs missing to conceal the tortures. And this is a fate that is really...

not that uncommon for the people in this gray zone of the occupation. But this also means that Ukraine will be completely harm, you know, without any protection from further Russian attacks. So at any point, Russia will have all the capacity and no restraints to repeat what they did back in 22. So what sort of peace are we even arguing about? This is not a peace. This is a continuation of the war. This is the war and occupation in other terms.

So ultimately, it's quite natural that Ukraine, the people of Ukraine, they want some guarantees that the situation with Budapest memorandum that was just torn apart by one of its states that was granting it, that it's not repeated. And, well, this means that you need to. have countries that will provide some sort of guarantees that they will act against further attempts of aggression. This doesn't mean purely Western countries. You can try to reach out to the countries of the global south because the precedent that is said by the Russian invasion of

Ukraine that one country tries to redraw unilaterally international borders by the war of aggression, it may unleash an even worse mayhem throughout the world if it's really enshrined in a sort of, you know, like agreement where we reward the aggressor. So this will have very dire consequences for countries throughout other regions as well. So we can also try to get a broader picture, a broader framework and a broader number of countries that can act in order to prevent this. But obviously what's now on the table and what's pursued by Washington isn't really interested in any sort of guaranteeing Ukrainian integrity, security, anything.

So it's all about dividing the world into spheres of influence and then this world carved by this great states, everyone can do whatever they want in their backyards. So this is the same for Putin as well. Let me ask Professor Mearsheimer about something you've written, Dennis Pilash. Professor Mearsheimer, Pallosh warns of a new axis emerging, bringing together Trump, Putin, Netanyahu, the far right in Europe and various authoritarian regimes from around the world, calling for the left to defend a renewed internationalism that opposes all oppressors. Your response.

Well, I think that Trump is simply trying to improve relations with Russia in this case, and he's simply trying to shut down the Ukraine war. I think that is in the Americans' national interest, America's national interest. I think it is in Ukraine's national interest. interest. I think if we could end this war, that would be a good thing. I do not think that Trump is interested in joining into some sort of worldwide alliance with right-wing governments, including the Russian government, to suppress liberal democracies around the world. I don't think that that's happening here. It's interesting because aren't you very critical of Trump when it

comes to what's happening in Gaza and his support for Netanyahu. It's interesting to see that table yesterday at the White House, where you have one European leader after another demanding a ceasefire, what Maers is calling for an arms embargo against Israel. You've got Stormer and McCaunt calling for recognition of the Palestinian state. It would be interesting for them to take on Israel's occupation of Gaza and what's going on there at the same time. were talking about Ukraine. You're not going to get any argument from me on that. The whole question of U.S. policy toward Israel is fundamentally different than the question

of U.S. policy towards Russia. I think that U.S. policy toward Israel, especially with regard to Gaza, is abhorrent. You know that. But I think Russia is a different matter. I think that Trump is on the right side with regard to Ukraine. He's not interested in selling the Ukrainians down the river. He doesn't have animosity towards Ukraine. What Trump is interested in doing is trying to get the Ukrainians to recognize reality

and to understand that from Ukraine's point of view, the best outcome would be to settle this war now. Yes, is it going to be settled on terms that are favorable to the Russians? Of course, because the Russians are in the driver's seat on the battlefield. and there's nothing that Ukraine and the United States can do to reverse that situation. But he's not Trump trying to sell the Ukrainians down the river. He's trying to settle this war. And he can't do it because the Ukrainians and the Europeans on one side and the Russians on the other side can't reach any sort of agreement on the terms of a settlement.

But that's basically what's going on here. Dennis Pulas, your response, and do you agree that this is, is going to be settled on the battlefield? Is this what you want to see? No, this is only a part of the, again, broader picture because still there are things that can be done to curb Russia's potential to wage this imperialist aggressive war. And still there are many loopholes in the economic sanctions

against Russia that are taken up only recently. For instance, the case of the shade of fleet of Russian oil tankers that are shipping oil under other guise of other countries and actually profiteering the Russian war machine. And still, there is a lot of things that could be done actually to reframe, redraw the broader security architecture and not to reward the aggressive states. This is not just about what's happening on the battlefield, but it's part of the, obviously, the part of the broader picture. And while Russia is going with all this indiscrimin killing of Ukrainians, regardless they are civilians or servicemen who used to be, yesterday civilians, I stand on the Maidan Nezalersity Square, where just yesterday we had a funeral of. our comrade anarchist activist and artist David Chich Khan who also died on the front line because he deemed Russia to be a major fascist threat and he as many Ukrainians saw no other option as to take up arms and to resist but ultimately

this is again about not trying to make the picture more rosier for for the aggressor and trying to to, for whatever it does, then we hear these responses that there is some rational behind this. And Mr. Meersheimer and his co-author, they went so far to try to rationalize even the decision of Hitler to start the worst bloodbaths in world history

by attacking the Soviet Union in the Second World War. But ultimately, this is nothing rational and nothing pragmatic in resorting to war as your main way of doing international policy. And this means that we need to really be consistent in the positions, both on Ukraine, on Palestine, and broader for all those people who are subject to oppression, to aggression,

to subjugation, to more powerful imperialist or sub-imperialist forces, So this needs, at least for the people on the left, who believe in progressive values, that we are against any such policies and that we unite in our solidarity. And first of all, this means that we should at least try to listen to each other, to understand the situation on the ground, to listen to the people on the ground. And, well, it's sometimes also appalling when we see major outlets who try to discuss Ukraine or Central Eastern Europe without even inviting

people from from the region just some Westerners and I think I hope that the democracy now that has done so much great things to expose the truth and you personally amy starting from the genocide in East Timor to give voice to the oppressed to the attack that you will go on to invite more voices from our region and more voices from oppressed people throughout the world. Well, we're going to have to leave it there. I thank you so much, Dennis Pillash, for joining us from Ukraine's capital from Kyiv. Dennis Pilash is a Ukrainian political scientist and historian, a member of the Ukrainian Democratic Socialist Organization, an editor at Commons, the Journal

of Social Criticism. And thanks so much to John Mearsheimer, political science professor at the University of Chicago, speaking to us from Chicago. Coming up, we go to California, where an immigrant rights activist and nurse was violently detained while monitoring ICE agents earlier this month. Stay with us. the o'ido tapado without to know to where

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Ilay, performing in our Democracy Now studio. This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org. I'm Amy Goodman. We go now to Los Angeles, California, where grassroots organizers are challenging some of the most intense federal shows of force and immigration enforcement crackdowns of Trump's second term. Earlier this month, the community activists. ICU nurse, Amanda Trebek, was violently arrested while documenting the operations of ICE agent.

She's a member of the group, Union del Barrio. At the time of her arrest, Amanda was participating in a peace patrol outside Terminal Island, a Coast Guard base used by ICE and Customs and Border Protection as a hub for operations in California. Dozens of volunteers have routinely stationed themselves outside Terminal Island to monitor the movement of the federal vehicles streaming in and out of the staging area. Terminal Island was once a thriving Japanese-American fishing village that was demolished during World War II, with its residents forcibly sent to internment camps. Footage of Amanda Trebach's arrest shows two plain clothes, masked agents, pinning her against the pavement as they kneel on her back and head.

to handcuff her. One of the agents, yes, seen putting his knee on Traybock's head for a brief moment. As a person recording yells, get off her head. Get off her head! Get off me! Get off. Get off her head! Get off her head!

Get off her head me! You better get that. Get off you. This is a public property, sir. This is a public property. Streaming live. This is ice beating her. Up. They got her knee on her head.

I'm where I need to be 10 feet. Can you guys get her in the van? Sir? You okay? Yeah. Amanda Traibach is a U.S. citizen. She was forced into an unmarked black van by at least half a dozen unidentified agents. Her release from federal custody came amidst pressure from activists, community protests,

and the National Nurses United Union. Amanda Trebek is joining us now. Welcome to Democracy Now. Amanda, I'm glad you're out. We spoke to your colleague, Ron Goeches, to describe what happened to you before you were speaking. Can you explain exactly why you were there, what you were intending to do as a Peace Patrol, warning people about the ICE agents and what they did to you? Yes, thank you so much for having me on this morning, Amy.

I really appreciate the opportunity. So myself and many other people in groups have, Minut Terminal Island, which, as you had mentioned, is near the port of L.A. in San Pedro, near Long Beach, California. We've been there legally monitoring the activity of ice on and comings and goings off the island, and alerting the community, specifically the Harbor Area Peace Patrols has been wonderful and alerting the community not only of the vehicles to look out for and so they can feel safer, but also what areas are. safe in and around the neighborhood where ice is not.

So people can go to the park. They can go to the grocery store and feel as though they're not going to be taken and kidnapped. So what we've also been doing is we've seen these vehicles at Terminal Island, almost every single one of them out in the LA area. It's small and large raids across the area. We can directly connect them back to, Terminal Island and living in our communities, staying in our communities in Long Beach.

So we're also connecting license plates. These vehicles are either, they have license plates that are not connected to these vehicles. We have indications and photo evidence that the license plates are being changed as well. And some don't even have license plates. So, you know, that is something that we're doing, but also just making sure the community is aware of what is happening, what to look out for, so they can feel a little bit safer as well. So explain what happened to you, and this wasn't the first attempt of ICE to arrest you. No, so we are on public property. When we're there, it's actually by the Japanese Memorial

on the civilian side of Terminal Island. So at one point, I was going on to the island to park to peacefully monitor and document. I was pulling in to park and I was blocked in by ICE agents and actually I backed up to try to park and they jumped out of their vehicle. They were masked and they had their large guns. They pulled them on me. They illegally tried to open my door. Thank goodness it was locked. I did not allow them in.

I said no. I backed up and they then tried to block me in again. And finally I pulled into the parking spot. and they sped off. So tell us then about, and we're watching it right now, the video of you being taken on what was it, August 8th? Yes, yes. So we were out on Terminal Island, just like any other day monitoring to be able to alert the community of vehicles to look out for. And we had, are, you know, our sign saying this terminal island is not safe. San Pedro is not safe with ICE agents here.

And we, for some reason, they came out in a large convoy that morning. And they, I guess their tactics have been changing. They've been frustrated. The community, you know, is aware. L.A. is aware of what they were doing is illegal. They are kidnapping us. And I say kidnappers because they're not federal agents. Many of them. Some of them are not federal agents. They're vigilantes. We don't know who they are. They're masks. They're not telling us who they are. So they came out in a convoy. They jumped out of the vehicle. As you could see, they append me to the ground. They handcuffed me. They took me into an unmarked vehicle. They did not read me my rights. They didn't tell me where I was going. They shut the vehicle. They drove me to the other side of the non-civilian side of Terminal Island.

And basically, they kidnapped me. I didn't know what was going on. I was there for four hours. What about their knee on your head? Yeah. Yeah. Their knee was on my head. My face was on the concrete.

My head was hurting the night that I was in. They took me to the detention center. It was hurting very bad. My shoulder actually in my hip because they pinned me down so hard to the ground. And then, you know, they were very rough with me. with me when they got me into the, after they closed the door of the truck, and took me to the other side of Terminal Island. And I had to wait there for hours and hours without knowing what was happening. Finally, a woman who said she was from Homeland Security, she came. And at that

point in time, they had put me in another unmarked vehicle with two mask of people, I guess, that were drivers of some sort. And this entire time, the port police, the port authority was aware, saw what was going on. No one tried to assist me. No one tried to help. They see the guns being drawn on me. So can you talk about where you were held in these last minute, where you were held the federal facility, the conditions you witnessed there? Sure, sure. So the water was not good. I was not giving any toiletries to speak up. I was told I would have to purchase a cup. You know, and thank goodness I was, the community came around, the Union Del Barrio Community Self-Defense Coalition, all-power-free clinic. You know, we're not stepping down.

That's why I was freed as a political prisoner because of the community coming together. And we know these tactics are escalating. ICE kidnappers are escalating. They're not following the temporary restraining order that has been carried out by the judge. They're coming after us. They're escalating their tactics. And the impact overall, we're growing. The impact overall, Amanda, on the community and especially the targeted community, undocumented immigrants.

But it goes much broader than that because anyone who they suspect of being undocumented, many being arrested, being deported. And why you as a nurse decided this is your role. This is your job right now. Well, as a nurse in South Central, L.A., I see that my patients tell me that they are not coming to the hospital. They're scared. So there's implications that are broad and far-reaching. People are sicker. They're coming in and they're dying because they did not want to come to the hospital.

They're coming to areas. The ICE kidnappers are coming to areas. They're supposed to be safe for us. We want to take care of our patients. and now people are sicker. They're not coming in. Our census has been down. Even the hospital has indicated that this is the case. And yeah, so that's as a nurse, it's a solidarity, right? They're coming after people, but the way that we're going to win and we're organizing community patrols and fighting back is through solidarity for all people. And it's my duty. And I'm

very honored to be here with Union Del Barrio and other organizations to organize. And like I said, we're growing. We encourage people to join the Community Self-Defense Coalition and other organizations. Amanda, we're going to have to leave it there. Amanda Trevac is an ICU nurse, a member of Union Del Barrio. She was detained by ICE for a day violently detained. I'm Mimi Goodman. This is Democracy Now.