Democracy Now! Audio - Democracy Now! 2025-09-22 Monday

Episode Date: September 22, 2025

Headlines for September 22, 2025; Trump Expands “Authoritarian” Free Speech Crackdown, Calls Negative Media “Illegal”: Jameel Jaffer; “Huge Step Forward”: MP Jeremy Corbyn Cheers U.K. Recognition of Palestine, Calls for More Pressure on Israel; Egypt Pardons Activist Alaa Abd El-Fattah; British MP Jeremy Corbyn Responds to “Amazing News”; Israeli Peace Activist: My Mother Was Killed on October 7. Here’s Why I Support Palestinian Statehood.; “Nothing Will Stop Israel”: Mustafa Barghouti on the Limits of Western Recognition of Palestine

From New York, this is democracy now. I state clearly as Prime Minister of this great country that the United Kingdom formally recognises the state. of Palestine. Oh. Effective today, Sunday the 21st of September, 2025, the Commonwealth of Australia recognizes the state of Palestine.

In a historic move, Britain, Australia, Canada and Portugal formally declare their recognition of a Palestinian state. At least five more countries are expected to join this week as the United Nations General Assembly begins in New York. in New York. We'll speak with British Parliament member Jeremy Corbyn in London, Israeli peace

activist Jonathan Zygin in Tel Aviv, whose mother, Vivian Silver, was killed in the October 2023 Hamas attack. He's one of thousands of Israelis who've signed a petition to the UN supporting Palestinian statehood. We'll also go to Ramallah to get response from Dr. Mustafa Bargutti, General Secretary of the Palestinian National Initiative. Then, after the assassination of conservative activist Charlie Kirk, President Trump expands his attack on free speech in the First Amendment. They'll take a great story and they'll make it bad. See, I think that's really illegal personally.

We'll speak with Jameel Jaffer, director of the Knight First Amendment Institute at Columbia University. The government is using all of the tools at its disposal to silence critics, to suppress dissent. It's a wave of suppression, I think, on a scale we haven't seen in the modern history of this country. All that and more coming up. Welcome to Democracy Now, Democracy Now. the War and Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman. Britain, Canada, Australia and Portugal formally declared recognition of a Palestinian state on Sunday ahead of the United Nations General Assembly. This is British Prime Minister, Kirstarmer. Today, to revive the hope of peace and a two-state

solution, I state clearly as Prime Minister of this great country, that the United Kingdom formally recognizes the state of Palestine. France and several other countries are expected to recognize Palestine this week, joining more than 140 countries that now recognize a Palestinian state. Hussam Zonlott, the Palestinian ambassador to the United Kingdom, spoke on Sunday. We realize that the recognition itself will not stop the wheels of colonization and theft. of land and oppression of our people. But the question is never, why should the U.K. and the rest of the world recognize the state

of Palestine? The question is why the U.K. has not recognized the state of Palestine until now. And the answer is where we are today. Because of the lack of this recognition, because of the lack of this foundational step, things have been left to fester all the way to genocide, being committed in full view of the world. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu responded to the developments by saying a Palestinian state, quote, will not happen, unquote. Several members of the Israeli government also called for Israel to annex the occupied West Bank. We'll have more on this story later in the program.

We'll go to Ramallah, to Tel Aviv, and to London. In Gaza, Israel's escalating its bombardment of Gaza city as Israel attempts to destroy the entire city. Officials in Gaza say almost half a million Palestinians have now been forcibly displaced from the city. Over the past day, Israel killed at least 61 people as the official death toll top 65,300, even though the real number is expected to be far higher. Meanwhile, the Trump administration seeking to send $6 billion in new weapons to Israel, despite a recent United Nations finding Israel's committing genocide in Gaza. The proposed arms deal includes 30 Apache attack helicopters and over 3,000 infantry assault vehicles. Meanwhile, unions in Italy have launched a one-day general strike to protest Israel's war on Gaza.

An Israeli air strike in southern Lebanon killed five people Sunday, including three children from the same family along with their father. Lebanon's Prime Minister, Nawaf Salam, decried the attack as a massacre. Lebanese officials said four of the victims, including the children, were U.S. citizens. But the U.S. State Department has disputed the claim. The Israeli military acknowledged carrying out the attack, saying the target of the strike was a member of Hezbollah. The Committee to Protect Journalists says recent Israeli strikes on two newspaper offices in Yemen killed 31 journalists and media support workers, making it the deadliest attack on journalists anywhere in the world in 16 years. 22 journalists were also injured in the strike.

CPJ said the attack was the second deadliest attack on the press ever recorded by the organization. Tens of thousands of people gathered in Arizona Sunday for a memorial for the conservative activist Charlie Kirk, assassinated September 10th while speaking at Utah Valley University. Speakers included Kirk's widow, Erica Kirk, who's just become the new head of Turning Point USA. On the cross, our Savior said, Father, forgive them, for they not know what they do. That man,

That young man, I forgive him. President Trump gave a 40-minute eulogy where he called Charlie Kirk a martyr. He did not hate his opponents. He wanted the best for them. That's where I disagreed with Charlie. I hate my opponent. And I don't want the best for them. I'm sorry.

I am sorry, Erica. Other speakers included Vice President J.D. Vance, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseff, Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr., and White House advisor Stephen Miller, who vowed to quash enemies and prevail over the forces of wickedness and evil. While the Trump administration threatened to target progressive groups after Kirk's assassination, NBC is reporting authorities have found, quote, no evidence tying the accused assassin to any left-wing groups. President Trump's escalating his attacks on press freedom in the First Amendment. On Friday, he said it should be illegal for journalists to give his administration negative coverage.

They'll take a great story and they'll make it bad. See, I think that's really illegal personally. Trump's comments come just days after. ABC, which is owned by Disney, indefinitely suspended Jimmy Kimmel's program following Federal Communications Commission Chair Brendan Carr's threats to revoke the broadcast licenses of ABC affiliates. On Friday, a group of writers and actors rallied outside the Disney offices in Manhattan to defend free speech. It's important for us to stand up together and to fight against censorship.

First Amendment says that the government does not have the right to come in and tell me what I can and cannot write and perform and so on. And this is putting, this is the government putting its thumb on the scale. The Pentagon's imposing new restrictions on reporters. Journalists face the risk of losing media credentials unless they sign a pledge stating they will not gather or report on any information that has not been formally authorized for release. The president of the National Press Club, Mike Balsamo, criticized new rules saying, quote, this is a direct assault on independent journalism at the very place where independent scrutiny matters most, the U.S. military, he said.

President Trump's publicly urged Attorney General Pam Bondi to prosecute three prominent rivals, former FBI director James Comey, New York Attorney General Letitia James, and Democratic Senator Adam Schiff. In a post-untruth social, Trump wrote, we can't delay any longer, unquote. In related news, the U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, Eric Siebert, resigned Friday under pressure from Trump, who publicly criticized Seabert for not bringing criminal charges against New York Attorney General Letitia James. said he plans to replace Siebert with Lindsay Halligan, a White House aide who once worked as part of Trump's personal legal team. Most recently, Halligan has been leading the administration's

efforts to remove what Trump has called improper ideology at the Smithsonian Museums. President Trump's overhauling the H-1B visa program, which allows high-skilled workers to enter the country, to work in the tech industry and other fields. On Friday, Trump signed an executive order imposing a $100,000 fee for the visa. The move set off mass confusion with many companies ordering non-citizen employees traveling abroad to immediately return to the United States. The White House later clarified that existing visa holders would not be impacted. MSNBC has revealed Trump's border czar, Tom Holman, was recorded last year accepting a bag with $50,000 in cash from a pair of FBI agents who were posing as business executives.

In exchange for the money, Homan reportedly offered to help them secure future government contracts. A bribery probe was open, but Trump's Department of Justice recently shut down the investigation. In Chicago, 10 people were arrested in protests outside an ICE facility Friday as federal immigration agents fired pepper balls and used tear gas on the crowd. Democratic congressional candidate, Kat Abu Ghazale, was thrown to the ground by ICE agents. People had rallied outside the facility to protest the Trump administration's Operation Midway Blitz, which is arrested nearly 550 people in a sweeping crackdown on immigrants in the city. Meanwhile, a 42-year-old man has died in ICE custody in Long Island, New York, on 3,000.

Thursday. According to ICE, at least 14 people have died in custody so far this year. In Louisiana, ICE prisoners are on hunger strike to protest their conditions at the infamous Angola prison. According to the Southeast Dignity Not Detention Coalition in the National Immigration Project, the prisoners are asking for access to medical and mental health care. And in California, Governor Gavin Newsom has signed a law banning law enforcement. including ice from wearing masks. The Trump administration has ended the U.S.'s annual report on food and security and hunger in America. It comes two and a half months after Trump signed into law a tax and spending bill sharply reducing the number of Americans receiving food stamps.

The U.S. Department of Agriculture said it was no longer issuing the annual hunger report, claiming, quote, the data is rife with inaccuracies, unquote. On social media, Bobby Kogan of the Center for American Progress said, quote, this follows the playbook of many non-democracies that cancel or manipulate reports that would otherwise show less than perfect news. In Sudan, a drone strike by the UAE-backed rapid support forces killed at least 85 people worshipping in a mosque and Darfur Friday. The attack took place in Al-Fashir, which has been under siege for more than a year as the RSF battles the Sudanese army for control of the city. There have been reports of starvation as hundreds of thousands of people have been displaced in the fighting. Sudan has been in a state of civil war since April 2023.

Here is UN Secretary General Antonio Gutierrez sounding the alarm about the situation in Sudan. It's horrible. So I think it's time for the Security Council to be able to take, with the agreement of all the key powers, very tough measures on Suzanne. In the Philippines, more than 200 protesters who were arrested after clashes with police at an anti-corruption demonstration in the Capitol Manila Sunday, at least 131 police officers were wounded. More than 33,000 Filipinos rallied against politicians and contractors for corrupt practices

and handling flood control projects. Here's Teddy Casino, the chairperson of the New Patriotic Alliance. The people are very angry because they have been. victims of flooding for all these years. And flooding has made their lives so difficult. And yet the discovery that all the billions of pesos that were supposed to help them, that was supposed to solve the problem, have ended up lining the pockets of all these corrupt politicians, government officials, and the contractors.

It comes as thousands have been evacuated as a potentially catastrophic. Stratholic super typhoon, Ragasa, makes landfall in the north of the Philippines. Tens of thousands of protesters took to the streets across Brazil to protest a congressional bill that would make it harder to charge lawmakers for alleged crimes and even reduce penalties for individuals involved in former President Jair Bolsonaro's coup attempt. Bolsonaro was sentenced earlier this month to 27 years in prison for trying to cling to power and for hatching a plan to assassinate his opponent. the current president, Luis Ignacio Lula de Silva, who won the 2022 presidential election.

Maria Alas Barbosa is a student in Rio de Janeiro. I think this amnesty for Bolsonaro is ridiculous, because these are people who harm Brazilian society, the Brazilian people. As citizens, we have to be here fighting, speaking out, showing our faces. People can't hide if we don't want to repeat what happened in past generations. As young people, we need to keep this in mind so that people know their rights and can fight for them. And President Donald Trump has revealed details about a possible deal with China that would give the United States more control over the social video platform TikTok. Trump said the deal could involve the media mogul Rupert Murdoch and his son, Lachlan, the tech founder Michael Dell, and Oracle's Larry Ellison, a close Trump ally who briefly passed Elon Musk as the world's richest man. China has not yet confirmed a deal has been reached.

And those are some of the headlines. This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org, the Warren Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman. When we come back after the assassination of conservative activist Charlie Kirk, President Trump expands his attack on free speech. We'll speak to Jamele Jaffer, director of the Night First Amendment Institute at Columbia University. I've been thinking about that talk about.

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Rising in the land The soul of the people Twisted in its command It moves like a virus, shaking out everyone, greed never stops the work has never ever done. A creeping, choking, killing, invading everywhere, there is really no escaping. Greeds need this now. I've been trying to think about how to talk about greed.

Greed performed by Sweet Honey and the Rock in our democracy now, Firehouse Studios. years ago. This is Democracy Now. Democracy Now.org, the War and Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman. We begin today's show looking at the right-wing's weaponization of the horrific assassination of conservative activist Charlie Kirk as tens of thousands of people gathered in Glendale, Arizona Sunday for his memorial. Kirk was killed September 10th while speaking at Utah Valley University. His widow Erica delivered an emotional speech to the crowd at State Farm Stadium near Phoenix. On the cross, our Savior said, Father, forgive them, for they not know what they do.

That man, that young man, I forgive him. Erica Kirk has just become the new head of the conservative group. Her husband co-founded, Turning Point USA. While she called for forgiveness for the assassin, President Trump and other top speakers, including Vice President J.D. Vance and White House Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller, reiterated calls for revenge on political opponents.

In his 40-minute eulogy, Trump hailed Kirk as a martyr and great American hero. He was a missionary with a noble spirit and a great, great purpose. He did not hate his opponents. He wanted the best for them. That's where I disagreed with Charlie. I hate my opponent. And I don't want the best for them. While the Trump administration threatened to target progressive groups in the

aftermath of Kirk's assassination, NBC reports authorities found, quote, no evidence tying the accused assassin to any left-wing groups. As advocates continue to denounce Trump's brazen attacks on free speech in the First Amendment, the president said Friday, it should be illegal for journalists to give his administration negative coverage. I'm a very strong person for free speech. The newscasts are against me. The stories are 90, they said, 97% bad. So they gave me 97, they'll take a great story, and they'll make it bad. See, I think that's really illegal, personally.

I think that's illegal personally, President Trump said. Trump's comments come just days after ABC, owned by Disney, indefinitely suspended Jimmy Kimmel's program following the chair. of the Federal Communications Commission, Brendan Carr's threats to revoke the broadcast licenses of ABC affiliates. Carr recently told the right-wing podcaster, Benny Johnson, quote, we can do this the easy way or the hard way. You know, when you look at the conduct that has taken place by Jimmy Kimmel, it appears to be

some of the sickest conduct possible. I mean, look, we can do this the easy way or the hard way. These companies can find ways to change conduct, to take action, frankly, on Kimmel, or, you know, there's going to be additional work for the FCC ahead. For more, we're joined in our New York studio by Jamil Jaffer, director of the Knight First Amendment Institute at Columbia University, previously Deputy Legal Director at the ACLU. Welcome back to Democracy Now. It's great to have you with us.

If you can talk about what's happening right now, first, this statement of President Trump, which he has repeated now a few times, that it should be illegal for journalists to cover President Trump negatively. He said they are breaking the law. Yeah. I mean, let me start even before that by just stating the obvious. This killing of Charlie Kirk was a terrible, terrible thing, not just for Charlie Kirk's family and his supporters, but for our society. It is a terrible. thing when somebody is killed because of their political views and our democracy won't survive it if that becomes a pattern. Now we see the Trump administration using the killing as a pretext

to further a crackdown on free speech that started, you know, when President Trump took office in January. And this latest statement, the one you just mentioned, Amy, where the president says, essentially, it's illegal to criticize me. I mean, it's just really revealing what we have already seen through the president's other policies. We've seen this wave of suppression directed, not just at the media, but at universities, at cultural institutions, at law firms, you know, over and over again, the Trump administration latches on to whatever regulatory tools it has and uses those tools as ways of

of silencing dissent, suppressing criticism. It is all flagrantly illegal. And I think that President Trump saying, it's illegal to criticize me, may get some Americans who maybe haven't been paying as close attention as they should have been to this wave of suppression to realize what is really going on here.

The president is claiming the powers of an authoritarian leader, and he's doing it quite explicitly. So let's talk about Jimmy Kimmel, Stephen Colbert, before him. The significance of, I mean, this is also coming to be clear. Just I want to go to the backlash against Kimmel following his opening monologue days after Kirk's assassination. We had some new lows over the weekend with the Maga Gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk is anything other than one of them and doing everything they can to score political points from it.

The abrupt decision to indefinitely suspend Jimmy Kim Alive reportedly came from Robert Iger, the chief executive ABC's parent company, the Walt Disney Company, and Disney Entertainment co-chair Dana Walden. And this also comes in the midst of the hopes of a six-point. $2 billion merger between NextStar, one of the biggest owners of ABC affiliates, and Tegna, which requires FCC approval, which is very significant because that's Brendan Carr saying we can do this the easy way or the hard way. Yeah.

I mean, I think you have to separate two things. So the private media institutions have a First Amendment right to make the decisions they want to with respect to, you know, what content they show. That was true with Stephen Colbert, true with Jimmy Kimmel. It was true when META decided to de-platform President Trump. These private media organizations have a first amount of right to make those decisions. But the idea is that they're supposed to make those decisions autonomously and without undue pressure from the government.

But what we're seeing now is that all of these institutions, just like the universities, just like the law firms, just like the cultural institutions, are making these decisions with a kind of figurative gun to their heads. you know, the Trump administration is, you know, weaponizing regulatory authority. In this context, it's the FCC's power to approve mergers with the universities. It's Title VI of the civil rights laws with the law firms, its security clearances. You know, they have different levers with different groups, but they're using these levers

in order to enforce a kind of ideological conformity. I mean, the conservative pundits, are continually saying, yes, this was just a business decision. Trump loves to say, Colbert, Kimmel, you know, low ratings. Their corporate heads have every right to fire them. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that, you know, some of the conservatives who are saying this is just a business

decision, we're not saying that when President Biden was leaning on the social media companies to change their policies with respect to vaccine misinformation. And President Biden's actions, though I do think that they did step over the line, we're much more respectful of this First Amendment line than President Trump's decisions now. President Trump is, you know, saying quite explicitly, if you disagree with me, or you criticize me, you will be prosecuted. And I don't think we've had a president say something like that. I think this is the first time in the history of the modern First Amendment that any president has suggested that it's illegal to criticize him.

Now, I wanted to go to a day or two before Kimmel was left. go. President Trump threatening ABC News, the same network, Jonathan Carl, after he questioned Trump about free speech and hate speech. And what do you make, Pam Bondi

saying she's going to go after hate speech? Is that, I mean, a lot of your allies say hate speech is free speech. You probably go after people like you because you treat me so unfairly. It's hate. You have a lot of hate in your heart. Maybe they'll come after ABC. Well, ABC paid me 6.

million dollars recently for a form of hate speech, right? Your company paid me $16 million for a form of hate speech. So maybe they'll have to go after you. So why don't you go to what the Attorney General Pam Bondi said about investigating hate speech, what Jonathan Carr was asking about, and then what President Trump said? Yeah, I mean, I think, well, first of all, the, you know, the First Amendment protects hate speech. Part of the reason the First Amendment protects hate speech is that there has always been the fear about the ways in which government authority would use the power to suppress hate speech to go after legitimate political speech. And I think you're seeing illustrated here why that fear is a very reasonable one. You know, President Trump is not really interested

in suppressing hate speech as you or I might ordinarily think of it. What he's interested in doing a suppressing speech that's critical of him. And he has said this very explicitly, and I worry that some people listen to this, and they think, oh, this is just rhetoric. It's just President Trump going up. But there are, you know, even as President Trump is saying these things,

the Pentagon is now requiring, you know, as you reported, is now requiring journalists to sign a pledge that they won't disclose information without approval, they won't report without approval of the Defense Department. There are also foreign citizens whom the government imprisoned because of their political abuse. So this is going on, you know, and of course there are universities that have been penalized because of their perceived liberalism. There are law firms that have been penalized because of their representation of clients the president doesn't like.

So it is not just rhetoric. The president really is using every lever at his disposal to silence, suppress. and even imprison his political enemies. This issue of the Pentagon that we also raised in headlines, this is truly, I mean, astounding that reporters cannot ask questions about or report on information the Pentagon unless they sign that statement that they will have it pre-approved. Yeah, I mean, obviously, like a reporter who is reporting only the things that the Pentagon wants them to report is doing something other than reporting, right?

That's not what journalism is supposed to be. And I don't think that journalists can agree to this and continue to do their jobs. You can't report only the things that the Defense Department approves. So on the issue of the divide right now in the country around free speech, it's been interesting. I said conservative pundits were saying, but they're also so-called brocasters and conservative punders. pundits and politicians who are actually raising a lot of concern, particularly afraid that if Democrats gain power, this will happen to them. For example, you have the Texas Senator Ted Cruz, who harshly criticized the FCC chair,

Brendan Carr, accusing him of mafia-like tactics, saying a threat to retaliate against media companies for speech on their airwaves is dangerous as hell, comparing it to Goodfellows. He said this is right out of good fellows. He's right. And I think he's also justified in worrying about what will happen when other people have this, you know, have this power. You know, that is one of the reasons that people who might not otherwise be committed to principle end up committed to principle because they just know that whatever power this president is given

might be used and abused by another president in the future in different ways. And we've seen that over and over again over the course of our history. And Ted Cruz isn't the only one who I saw that Ben Shapiro also made a similar observation. And I'm sure that both of them are coming at these issues from a very different place than I am. But I think that they're right to be worried about the erosion of a principle that protects everybody. I wanted to also ask you about the law. that Governor Newsom, the California governor, just signed into law, called the secret police law. And this is the first law in the country to ban most law enforcement officers, including federal immigration agents, from covering their faces while conducting official business under a bill that was signed on Saturday.

You have now, Tricia McLaughlin, the spokesperson for the Department of Homeland Security, saying it's supporting terrorists. You have the statement that the U.S. attorney has made that says you don't have to follow this law. What does this mean? Yeah, I mean, I haven't studied the law, but I do think that ICE agents wearing masks, masks is an invitation to abuse and impunity. And it's very important that officers who are wielding the power of the state are identifiable to the rest of us. We need to know who they are in order to be able to hold them accountable. And because you can hold them accountable, if you know who they are, abuse is less likely. And, you know, I think that that is why for, you know,

most of modern history, we have not had government agents walking around the United States wearing masks. We've required them to show their faces, to have ID badges that show their numbers, you know, in part to deter abuse and in part to ensure that we can hold people accountable if they do engage in abuse. I would also just ask, like, if we accept this, if we accept ICE agents wearing masks on the theory that they could be retaliated against if they, show their identities. It's not obvious to me why we would stop with ICE agents. Soon we will have judges in masks too and government lawyers in masks. And I don't think that any of that is consistent with democratic values. Finally, can you comment on the judge

dismissing the lawsuit against the New York Times, Trump's lawsuit against New York Times? Very interesting. He just sued Murdoch. At the same time, he's working a deal with him with TikTok and China. But the significance of the judge saying the complaint of President Trump failed to contain a short and plain statement of the claim. Of course, Trump can appeal this decision. What about why he sued the New York Times? Well, I mean, I think that it is an extremely feeble complaint. It's a complaint about totally legitimate journalism that the New York Times has done about President Trump and this is just an effort to intimidate the Times

and intimidate other media organizations. Silling him for $15 billion. I mean, it's an absurd, you know. It's an absurd lawsuit. But I think that, you know, the risk is that it will chill not so much the New York Times, but it'll chill other media that don't have the resources of the Times from aggressively reporting about the President and his allies.

Jumail Jaffer, thanks so much for being with us, Director of the Night First Amendment Institute at Columbia University. Previously, Deputy Legal Director at the ACU, when we come back in a historic move, Britain, Canada, Australia, Portugal, recognize a Palestinian state. We'll speak to the British member of parliament, Jeremy Corbyn, former labor leader in Britain, about this decision. Then we'll go to the Israeli peace activist Yonatan Zygin, who lost his mother. Vivian Silver in the Hamas attack, October 2023, one of thousands of Israelis who have called for the recognition of a Palestinian state. And in Ramallah, we'll talk to Dr. Mustafa Barguti, General Secretary of the Palestinian National Initiative. Back in 20 seconds. power in the land

Power in the hand of the worker But it all amounts to nothing If together we don't stand There is power in a union Now the lessons of the past We're all learned with workers' blood The mistakes of the bosses we must pay for From the cities and the farmland

To trenches full of mud War has always been The boss is wiser The Union forever defending our rights Down with the black leg Or working There's power in a union

Billy Bragg performing in our Democracy Now studio This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org. I'm Amy Goodman. In a historic move, Britain, Canada, Australia and Portugal have formally declared their recognition of a Palestinian State Sunday, ahead of the United Nations General Assembly here in New York.

This is British Prime Minister Kier Starrmer and Australia's Prime Minister, Albanese, beginning with Starmor. I state clearly as Prime Minister of this great country that the United Kingdom formally recognises the state of Palestine. Effective today, Sunday the 21st of September 2025, the Commonwealth of Australia, recognises the state of Palestine. France and at least five other countries are expected to also recognize Palestine starting today, joining more than 140 countries who now recognize a Palestinian state.

Hussam Zonlott, the Palestinian ambassador to the United Kingdom, spoke on Sunday. We realize that the recognition itself will not stop the wheels of colonization and theft of land and oppression of our people. But the question is never, why should the UK and the rest of the world recognize the state of Palestine? The question is why the UK has not recognized the state of Palestine until now. And the answer is where we are today. Because of the lack of this recognition, because of the lack of this foundational step, things have been left to fester all the way to genocide, being committed in full view of the world. Several members of the Israeli government responded to the developments by calling for Israel to annex the occupied West Bank.

For more, we're joined by three guests. We begin with Jeremy Corbyn. Member of the British Parliament served as Labor Party leader from 2015 to 2020, recently hosted a Gaza Tribunal that accuses the UK of complicity in Gaza genocide. Welcome back to Democracy Now. It's great to have you with us. Thank you for joining us from London. Jeremy Corbyn, can you start off by responding to this historic recognition and what more you'd like to see? I've just come from an event held outside the Palestine mission in London, which we now must refer to as the Palestine Embassy, and I'm delighted to be able to do that. And unfortunately, I wasn't able to get back to my office.

I'm doing this from a park, hence all the noise in the background. Yes, it is a huge step forward that Britain, after years and years of campaigning and pressure, has finally recognized Palestine and joined the 140 other nations that have done so. But, and this is a huge butt, what are we recognizing? A people under occupation, a genocide that is happening in real time in Gaza, and in the case of Britain, a country that maintains strong economic ties. to Israel, continues security cooperation, supplying parts for F-35 jets, and allowing RAF bases to be used by Israeli planes as well as REF planes. But what it does do is gives us

the chance and the opportunity in Britain to put renewed demands and political pressure on the British government to end all the arms supplies and impose real economic sanctions against Israel. And in response to this, we're now organizing the biggest ever demonstration in support of Palestine on October the 11th in London, because people are just so angry, unbelievably angry, when they see the images of children being starved to death, doctors crying because they cannot perform operations properly because they've got no antiseptic, anesthetic, equipment, or anything else. And our Gaza Tribunal, which the Peace and Justice project held for two days, ten days ago,

was devastating in the evidence that we collected of the legal. action and of the way in which the Israeli bombing of Gaza is actually planned all around building of the Riviera, which Trump has been dreaming about. And so this is an opportunity to renew our political solidarity. It also actually further isolates the United States in global opinion, because the United States is the only real big country that still supports Israel. And so I think the pressure must be on. And my sympathies and solidarity to all the Palestinian campaign is all across the USA. You can do it. And we're with you. And we'll support you in any way we can to help force the administration change its policy. Jeremy Corbyn,

the UK is recognizing a Palestinian state based on the 1967 borders, which includes the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip. How does this recognition impact the legal standing of Israeli settlements in the West Bank? I think it damages the pretense that the settlements in the West Bank have some kind of legal safes in Israeli law. These settlements are actually a form of occupation. They are part of the Greater Israel Plan. What they are is a sort of advanced guard for the complete occupation of the entire West Bank. And so they've obviously got to stop and got to go.

And I think it makes their position in international law less and less tenable. Because Israel will claim it's the occupying power, but the occupying power is bound by the Geneva Convention, the fourth Geneva Convention, on what they can and cannot do. And Israel is doing everything it cannot do in law. And so international law has been found against Israel on many, many occasions. But unless the rest of the world does something about it, like making sure aid gets in, like making sure the potilla gets there, like making sure the arms no longer flow, then international law will be brought increasingly into disrepute as a result of this. Jeremy Corbyn, we have this late breaking news that has just come in. The Egyptian president, Abdul Fattel Sisi, issued a pardon for the prominent British Palestinian blogger,

activist Allah Abdel Fata, who's been in jail since 2019. If you can comment on the significance of this moment, his mother has been fasting. I'm sure you know her well in Britain, demanding Britain pressure Egypt. Talk about it. I do know his mother very well. I've met her many times, and we've done everything we can in Parliament and elsewhere to support. This is amazing news.

Again, this didn't come from nowhere. came from international solidarity. It came from activism. So anyone watching now and democracy now, be aware, we might feel lonely and isolated and cold and wet and hungry when we're on the streets demonstrated. It makes a difference. And his freedom is a product of all that solidarity all around the world. This is amazing news. Congratulations to him, to his mom. And by the way, everybody, read his book. And do you expect him to be coming to Britain soon? Well, he has obviously a home in Britain.

He's very welcome here. And I would love to welcome him to Britain. I'd love to take him to Parliament where a whole bunch of us would like to buy him a slap-up tea to welcome him back. Jeremy Corvin, thank you so much for being with us at a flag-raising ceremony on what is now the Palestinian embassy in London. As Great Britain recognizes Palestine as a state, along with Portugal and Australia and Canada, France is expected to do it as well this week, as well as a number of other countries, joining close to 150 other countries in the world that have formally recognized Palestine as a sovereign and independent state. We now go to Tel Aviv, where we're joined by Yonitin Zygin, Israeli peace activists whose mother, Vivian Silver, a 74-year-old Canadian-Israeli peace activist was killed in the Hamas attack, October 7, 2023 on Kibbutzberi.

Silver had co-founded the Arab Jewish Center for Equality, Empowerment, and Cooperation, and was a member of Women Wage Peace. Yonatan Zygin is a board member of Parents, Circle, Families Forum, one of thousands of Israelis who've signed a petition to the UN supporting Palestinian statehood. Yonatan, welcome back to democracy now. Your response to this historic moment yesterday, Portugal, Britain, Australia, and Canada, recognizing Palestine as a state. and talk about the Israeli position on this, from the activists to the government? Well, I think, thank you for having me, first of all. I think that this is a belated, but blessed step forward

because we need to level the field in order for us, Israel is the Palestinians, to be able to shape the only viable future for us which is a shared future we need to be able to look each other in high level and in order to do that

the Palestinians need to be elevated and to be granted basic rights and in the world people are they are granted basic rights through the mechanism of

nation states and the Palestinians shouldn't be excluded from that. So this is a first step. Now needs to come implementation because it can't be just a symbolic gesture. It needs to be accompanied by the rights that states have globally and the obligations. So I think this is a step forward

and it should have been done a long time ago. All the world always supported the two-state solution while only recognizing one state. So now this is a rectification of that and it needs to be implementable on the ground.

What we see reactions in Israel, in terms of activists, in terms of the peace movement, the human rights movement, I've only heard blessings and good reactions and

support. And as you said, at least 9,000 people signed the petition in the political sphere or in the mainstream of Israeli society. I hear hysteria because this is a zero-sum game for our government. We either the government, this government, and a lot of governments in the past, wanted to expand Israel, wanted to kill and die for exclusivity of the whole promised land. And this is a step forward, a very strong signal from the international community that that is not acceptable, that the future of Israelis and Palestinians is shared, is our ability to share the land.

So they will do whatever they can to oppose this geopolitical momentum, and countries, states shouldn't back down. They should now continue with implementation that includes incentives on the one hand for diplomatic processes, for humanitarian etiquette, and sanctions on the other, isolation. diplomatic, economical, cultural, if we continue on this murderous status quo that we created since October 7th. The Israeli government, the foreign ministry, says recognition is nothing but a reward for jihadist Hamas. I'm going to end with this question. Your mother, Vilvian Silver, and our condolences on her death almost two years ago,

killed in the Hamas attack on her kibbutz, on kibbutz, on Kibbutzbury. And yet here, you are deeply committed to peace and a Palestinian state. Can you respond to what your government is saying? We saw, in fact, Hamas thrived. It didn't come from nowhere. It didn't. It wasn't established on October 7th. It thrived in the environment of statelessness for the Palestinians, of oppression, of the Palestinians, if we want to change reality that we don't encounter monstrous resistance groups from the Palestinian society, we need to offer a sustainable life, a future, a prospect. I saw in historical analysis in 48, when after the state of Israel was established,

the militias, the armed militias that used terror to forward their missions, were dismantled. They were assimilated into the general political mechanism of the state, the new formal state of Israel. That will happen as well in Palestine. Militias thrive in statelessness, in chaos, in oppression, and they, that, out under the light, under formal mechanism of obligations and rights towards other peoples. Well, Oniton, Zagin, I want to thank you for being with us. Israeli peace activist. His mother killed October 7, 23, in Kabutsbury. He's a board member of Parents, Circle, Families Forum, and is one of thousands of Israelis

have signed on to a petition for Palestinian statehood. is democracy now. I'm Amy Goodman. We're also joined in Ramallah in the Occupied West Bank by Dr. Mustafa Varguti, Palestinian physician, activist, politician, who serves as General Secretary of the Palestinian National Initiative. The initiative said Palestinian recognition, quote, must immediately be accompanied by the imposition of sanctions on Israel's to stop the war of extermination, ethnic cleansing, and starvation in the Gaza Strip. Your new essay, Mustafa, And today's New York Times is headlined, Palestinians need more than the gesture of statehood. If you can please respond first to Britain, Canada, Australia, Portugal, recognizing a Palestinian state.

I think on the Eiffel Tower now are the flags of Palestine and France. And what more you want to see? Oh, Palestine and Israeli flags are on the Eiffel Tower. Well, first of all, I want to say that we welcome, of course, the recognition because it means that there is affirmation of the right of the Palestinian people to have self-determination. These recognitions negate completely the Israeli measures to kill the possibility of a Palestinian state and negate the Israeli discriminatory laws like the state nation law, which says that the right of self-determination. on the historic Palestine is restricted to Israeli Jewish people. It also denies and negates the laws that Israel has passed to prevent the establishment of an independent Palestinian state.

That is all good. It's a bit late, maybe not a bit late, but actually too late. But it's not enough either. We think we are now at a stage where nothing will stop Israel, Nothing will deter Israel from continuing its unicidal war in Gaza and its bombardment of the Palestinian people there and its collective punishment including starvation and its acts of ethnic cleansing, especially now in Gaza City and also the terrorist settlers' attacks in the West Bank. Nothing will deter all of that except sanctions on Israel immediately. By the way, while we talk, I just received information that the Israeli planes bombarded the main Palestinian Medical Relief Society Center in the city of Gaza, destroyed it with three rockets and destroyed it completely injuring some of the people who are working there and destroying one of the most important vital health centers in the city of Gaza. So we need sanctions. We need measures. I think the previous speaker spoke about that very clearly.

And we need Israel to be restrained by these measures. One last point, which is that it is clear, as you can see, now with 10 more countries recognizing Palestine, which means 152 countries already recognize Palestine, more than 80% of the General Assembly members. of the United Nations, much more than countries that recognize Israel, by the way. That puts Israel and the United States of America in very clear status of isolation because of the policies that Israel is following and because of the unconditional support that Trump's administration is providing to it, even when it is committing such horrible war crimes. Can you comment on Baseladra, the director of the Oscar-winning film, other land, his home again raided? Of course, that is totally unacceptable,

and that is one other form of oppression, of freedom of expression, and oppression of people's ability to express the case of Palestine. And in my opinion, what we are subjected to is much worse, even than what people in South Africa have been subjected to during the apartheid system. But as I said before, a new program, Amy, and I thank you for hosting me today. As I said before, the story of Palestine is becoming so similar to what happened in South Africa. People change, and then they change the parliaments in their countries, and then the parliaments change their governments. Everything you see in terms of recognition today by

France, Britain, Australia, Canada and others, is happening only because of the steadfastness and resilience and resistance of the Palestinian people, because of the heroism of ordinary Palestinian citizens who refuse to leave their country and who risked everything to stay in Palestine. And it's also because of the heroism of so many people in these countries, the people of France, the people of Britain, the people of Canada, the people of Australia, and the people of the United States, by the way, who are standing up against injustice and standing up in support of Palestine. Dr. Bargucci, I wanted to get your response in this final minute to Israel's far right minister Bezalal Smotrick calling the Gaza Strip a real estate bonanza

saying a business plan is on President Trump's table. He's added, we've done the demolition phase. Now we need to build. And of course, this. reinforces what President Trump has said on, he says the U.S. will take over the Gaza Strip and we'll do a job with it too. We'll own it. We have 30 seconds on what especially responsibility the U.S. has. What you say is a reflection of things that can only be said by fascists and by fascism. What the United States must do is to stop this terrible horrible fascist tendency. Listen to the American people.

The American people are changing, and they would not let this administration continue what they are doing. Dr. Mustafa Bargutia, I want to thank you so much for being with us. Palestinian physician, activist, politician, serves as General Secretary of the Palestinian Nationalist's Initiative, speaking to us from Occupied Ramallah. A very happy birthday to Jackie Sam. I am Amy Goodman. This is Democracy Now.