Democracy Now! Audio - Democracy Now! 2025-09-24 Wednesday

Episode Date: September 24, 2025

Democracy Now! Wednesday, September 24, 2025

From New York, this is Democracy Now. It's time to end the failed experiment of open borders. You have to end it now? Let's see, I can tell you. I'm really good at this stuff. Your countries are going to hell. President Trump criticizes the United Nations. and other countries in his address at the opening of the U.N. General Assembly here in New York.

We'll speak to Washington Post columnist Ishaan Thore, who was in the audience. His recent piece headlined, a Trump-shaped wrecking ball swings toward a faltering United Nations. Then President Trump makes false and misleading claims about vaccines, autism, and Tylenol. I'm going to say it like it is. Don't take Tylenol. Don't take it if you just can't. I mean, it's a fight like hell not to take it. We'll speak with vaccine expert, Dr. Peter Hotez, about Trump's war on science. Then President Trump's new domestic terrorism designation for Antifa. We'll talk to investigative journalist Will Potter. The designation of Antifa as a terrorist organization represents the glove.

coming off in political repression and attacks on dissent right now. This is really a warning to all social movements about what's coming. All that and more coming up. Welcome to Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org, the War and Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman. Speaking at the opening of the UN General Assembly, President Trump blasted the United Nations and questioned its purpose. He also called climate change a con job and warned European nations of the, quote, double-tailed monster of migration and green energy.

Not only is the UN not solving the problems it should too often, it's actually creating new problems for us to solve. The best example is the number one political issue of our time, the crisis of uncontrolled migration. It's uncontrolled. Your countries are being ruined. The United Nations is funding an assault on Western countries and their borders. Outside the United Nations, protesters gathered urging an end to Israel's war on Gaza. This comes as 10 more countries recognized Palestinian statehood, bringing the total to more than 150 countries. I would say that recognizing Palestinian state right now, without actually taking real action,

To stop the ongoing genocide of the Palestinian people is just symbolic. It's hypocritical. It means nothing. Israel is intensifying its bombardment of Gaza's city, pushing its military forces to the heart of the city after ordering more than one million residents to flee. Israeli attacks have killed more than 50 people in Gaza today alone. Here's a Mohammed, a displaced Palestinian mother of two. We were determined to stay in our neighborhood, in Sabra, and not leave, but the situation we saw was extremely dangerous and difficult.

These robots that came to our area made us leave without realizing it. The Gaza-bound global smooth flotilla is reporting that explosions, multiple drones, and chemical devices have targeted their boats near Greece. The group says it's the seventh attack on the flotilla. In response, Italy sent a Navy ship to protect the boats. The Global Samud Flotilla is preparing to leave soon to Gaza in an attempt to break the Israeli blockade. Passengers include the Swedish activist, Greta Tundberg, and Nelson Mandela's grandson, the South African MP Mandela Mandela. Here's another of the activists aboard the Flotilla.

We have been attacked by eight drones. eight attacks so far. Seven of them has hit the boat. One of them, it was like a chemical substance. The other six were explosions above the boat. Some of them created structural damage on the boat. No one has been hurt so far. The UN Commission of Inquiry on the occupied Palestinian territory says Israel's looking to establish permanent control of Gaza and establish a Jewish majority in the occupied West Bank. The report set to be presented next month to the U.N. General Assembly. In his statement, Navi Pillay, the head of the commission, said Israeli actions had, quote,

deepen the misery of the Palestinian people and deprive them of resources indispensable for their survival, including the capacity to produce food, unquote. President Trump has said Ukraine, backed by the European Union and NATO, could win back territory captured by Russia's full-scale invasion. Trump's comments Tuesday marked a dramatic shift in his position on Russia's war on Ukraine. Following a meeting with Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly yesterday, Trump wrote on truth social, quote, with time, patience and financial support of Europe, and in particular NATO, the original borders from where this war started is very much an option. Trump had previously

said both Ukraine and Russia would have to cede land to end the war. Trump also signaled support for NATO attacks on Russian aircraft that enter the airspace of member countries. Syrian interim President Ahmed al-Shara sat for an interview with former CIA director David Petraeus in New York yesterday. Petraeus had commanded U.S. forces during the invasion of Iraq and imprisoned Al-S. from 2006 to 2011. Al-Sharah had a $10 million bounty placed on his head by the U.S.

as leader of the Syrian militant group Hayat Tahrir al-Champ. The bounty was lifted last December. Here's General Petraeus speaking with President Al-Shera yesterday. We thank you for sharing your vision today. We wish you strength and wisdom and the difficult work ahead. We obviously hope for your success in shirahe. because at the end of the day, your success is our success. The European Union and the World Health Organization are disputing President Trump's warning,

linking acetaminophen during pregnancy with autism. In a statement, the European Medicines Agency said, quote, available evidence has found no link between the use of paracinotipanol, another name for acetaminephine during pregnancy and autism. Here's Justine Roberts, founder of the London-based Parenting Forum, Mumsnet. I think it's really important that you follow the evidence and the science. And I think most people on Momsnet are aware that Trump says a lot of stuff, which is not to be trusted. So I think it's very important that the government comes out now.

An emotional Jimmy Kimmel returned to the airwaves last night after ABC indefinitely suspended his show last week, following Federal Communications Commission Chair Brendan Carr's threats to revoke the broadcast licenses of affiliates over comments Kimmel made about Charlie Kirk's assassin. In his monologue, Jimmy Kimmel spoke about how foreign comedians look to the United States. how lucky we are here. Our freedom to speak is what they admire most about this country. And that's something I'm embarrassed to say I took for granted until they pulled my friend Stephen off the air and tried to coerce the affiliates who run our show in the cities that you live in to take my show off the air.

That's not legal. That's not American. That is un-American. And it's so dangerous. President Trump suggested he might sue ABC after Kimmel returned to the airwave, saying, Quote, we're going to test ABC out on this, unquote. It comes after ABC settled a civil defamation suit with Trump for $16 million last year. Meanwhile, Senators Elizabeth Warren, Ron Wyden, Ed Markey, and Chris Van Hollen have announced an investigation into Next Star and Sinclair,

major TV station owners that account for roughly 70 ABC affiliates across the U.S., who are refusing to air Jimmy Kimmel Live. In a letter addressed to the leadership of Next Star and Sinclair, the Senators write, quote, If you suspended a late-night comedian show, in part, to seek regulatory favors from the administration, you've not only assisted the administration eroding First Amendment freedoms, but also create the appearance of a possible quid pro quo arrangement that could implicate federal anti-corruption laws, unquote. Next Star is currently seeking FCC approval for its $6.2 billion merger with Tegna. while Sinclair is also exploring a possible merger for its broadcast business. In Haiti, at least 11 people, most of them children, were killed after a drone attack,

struck a birthday party in Port-a-Prince Saturday. The attack supposedly targeted gang leaders. Experts have denounced the strikes as a violation of international law, blaming Haiti's interim government, which earlier this year hired foreign military contractors to conduct lethal operations against gangs who've seized Port-au-Prince and vast swathes of territory across Haiti. The contractors work for a company owned by Trump ally Eric Prince, also the founder of Blackwater. A group of 11 people deported from the United States to Ghana have all been returned to their home countries despite fearing torture and persecution. The nationals from Nigeria, Togo, Mali, Gambia, and Liberia had previously sued the Ghanaian government to fight their removal and said their deportation from Ghana was,

expedited without access to lawyers or due process. The Trump administration has third country agreements with several nations, including Ghana, which agreed to accept U.S. deportees of different nationalities as part of Trump's crackdown on immigrants. The Trump administration's issued fresh sanctions as the U.S. intensifies punitive measures in response to Brazil's criminal prosecution of former far-right President J.R. Bolsonaro. Earlier this month, Brazil's Supreme Court sentenced Bolsonaro to more than 27 years in prison for plotting a military coup after his election defeat in 2022. Trump officials have moved to sanction the wife of the Brazilian Supreme Court justice, Alexandra de Marash, who led the probe into Bolsonaro, a Trump ally.

The coup plot included assassinating current president Luis Inassia Lula de Silva. Lula took aim at Trump in his UN General Assembly speech, which opened Unga yesterday. There is no justification for unilateral and arbitrary measures against our institutions and our economy. The attack on independence of the judiciary is unacceptable. This interference in internal affairs is aided by a subservant far right that longs for former hegemony. Lula's opening dress opened the UN General Assembly. He was followed by President Trump. A jury in Florida yesterday found Ryan Roth guilty of attempting to assassinate President Trump last year on a golf course.

As the jury left, Ralph started stabbing himself in the neck with a pen. He faces life in prison when he is sentenced. House Democrats have launched a series of probes against Trump's so-called border czar, Tom Holman, amidst revelations he was recorded last year accepting a bag with $50,000 in cash from a pair of FBI agents who were posing as business, executives in exchange for the money. Holman reportedly offered to help them secure future government contracts. Maryland Congress member Jamie Raskin, the top Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, is urging the Justice Department to turn over the reported tape after a bribery probe was recently

shut down by Trump's DOJ. The Department of Agriculture placed a team of hunger researchers on leave. This came just days after the Trump administration said it would end a longstanding annual Food Insecurity Report, which officials described as, quote, redundant, costly politicized and extraneous, unquote. The annual report helped shape policy on how to combat hunger in the United States. And Democrat Adelita Grachalva has won a special election in Arizona's seventh congressional district. She'll replace her late father, former representative Raul Grachalva, in Congress. After she's sworn in, Grahava is expected to become the 218th vote

needed to force the Justice Department to release more of its files on the convicted sex offender, Jeffrey Epstein. And those are some of the headlines. This is Democracy Now. Democracy Now.org, the Warren Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman in New York, joined by Democracy Now is Juan Gonzalez and Chicago. Hi, Juan. Hi, Amy, and welcome to all of our listeners and viewers across the country and around the world. Speaking at the opening of the UN General Assembly, Tuesday here in New York, President Trump blasted the United Nations, saying it's, quote, not even coming close to living up to its potential, unquote. Meanwhile, Trump claimed he himself has ended seven wars. A period of just seven months, I have ended seven unendable wars. They said they were

unendable. Very honored to have done it. It's too bad that I had to do these things instead of the United Nations doing them. And sadly, in all cases, the United Nations did not even try to help in any of them. Trump also called climate change a con job and warned European nations of the, quote, double-tailed monster of migration and green energy. When your prisons are filled with so-called asylum seekers who repaid kindness, and that's what they did, they repaid kindness with crime, it's time to end the failed to experiment of open borders. You have to end it now. Let's see, I can tell you. I'm really good at this stuff. Your countries are going to hell. Meanwhile, anti-war protesters gathered outside the

United Nations urging an end to Israel's war on Gaza, coming as at least 10 countries recognized Palestinian statehood this week, bringing the number of countries at the United States. nations who've recognized the country of Palestine to about 150. For more, we're joined by journalist Ishan Thoreau. He is Global Affairs columnist at the Washington Post, where his latest columns are headlined, Trump v. Lula was a window into MAGA at the UN, and a Trump-shaped wrecking ball swings toward a faltering United Nations. Welcome back to Democracy Now, Ishaun. It's great to have you with us. Why don't you comment overall, on President Trump's address yesterday.

Sure. Well, it's a pleasure to be back with you, Amy. I've covered every single one of Trump's UN speeches from his first term into now. And I think it's fair to say, in his first term, he was a bit of an object of curiosity, his appearances on the UN. You remember many moments of levity, of the audience laughing or laughing at him, sometimes with him. And I think there was an overarching impression among the UN diplomatic core that this is an aberration perhaps. This is a particular interlude in American politics. And now with Trump's return this year, it's very clear that he represents a certain status quo or an emerging status quo. And in Trump's speech, as you highlighted, the two very

coherent points he made was about the perils of immigration and the mistake in his mind of green climate policies. And he's speaking not just to his base, but to an emerging far-right base, across the west. He warned about the death of Western Europe. And this is all highly unusual rhetoric to have from the days of the General Assembly where you're supposed to be, as the largest underwriter of the United Nations, as a prominent member state, talking about the ways in which global cooperation can solve major global challenges. But that is not something Trump cares about. And it became abundantly clear, especially as his speech went on and on and on and on. four times beyond the allotted time for him.

Over an hour, it's generally about 15 minutes. It's generally 15 minutes, correct. That, you know, Trump was, you know, speaking to a far right international around the world more than he was to the member states there in the room. And Isha, you mentioned this, I think it was the longest speech ever, UN speech by the American president. And it almost seemed at times this, the narcissistic, and the lecturing of world leaders, what do you think was the impact on them, especially

when he talks about migration as it's primarily a European problem. The reality is that many countries in the global South, Iran, Turkey, Colombia are hosting huge numbers of refugees and migrants as well. That's right. You know, the length of the speech was something that An Arab diplomat texted me during the speech saying, this reminds me of Gaddafi more than anybody else at the United Nations. Of course, the late Libyan dictator was somebody who came to the UN and spent a lot of time kind of amusing the audience and going on and on and on. And Trump, yes, he had his usual moments where he's talking about it,

a faulty teleprompter and the escalator that didn't work. And then, you know, offering some strange asides here and there. But absolutely, he came to the United Nations, a forum that's supposed to, in its function, grapple with problems that all countries share or that cross borders. And here he is talking about how to shut down borders. Here he is talking about the waste of time of the United Nations and reviving in many ways longstanding Republican complaints about the UN that predate Donald Trump, but which, you know, Donald Trump has really accelerated a certain conversation in the United States. about the U.S.'s commitments to this institution, about the U.S.'s commitments in general to the general ethos and principles of multilateralism, which is what the UN stands for. And so it's kind of accelerated the sense of an inflection point now. The UN is 80 years old. It's fair to say that it's showing its age. It's not been able to resolve conflicts for a long time. It's struggling to maintain the peace.

It's struggling in many ways to fulfill some of its core mission and goals. The U.S. cuts that Trump has initiated to SAID and other programs are deeply damaging to the UN system and the international humanitarian system as well. And so you're seeing a very beleaguered UN Secretary General Antonio Gutierrez entering his final year. And while he may want to sort of position the UN for a future where it has to be. reckon with climate change, where it has to figure out the rules of the road internationally for things like AI and other advanced technologies. Instead of positioning the UN for the future, he's in the midst of a really brutal regime of austerity and retrenchment and major cuts to come

next year. And what about this claim of Donald Trump that he ended seven unendable wars that the United Nations was unwilling to get involved with? Could you fact check that for us a little bit? Right. I mean, I think you can go through each seven of them and forgive me, I don't have them all itemized in my head at this point, but my colleagues of the Washington Post have already fact-checked them. I think it's fair to say that in all seven instances that he cited, either there was no actual war to be resolved or the war is still raging. You know, he talked about this peace deal that was brokered between the DRC and Rwanda, which is backing rebels in the Eastern Democratic Republic of Congo. just yesterday you had the president of the DRC here in New York saying actually the fighting is worse than it's ever been right now the conflict between India and Pakistan the Pakistanis recognized that telling Trump that he stopped the conflict was

great for them because that's all he wanted to hear but the Indians have a totally different narrative and it has nothing to do with Trump seizing hostilities and the list goes on what's curious though is in the past in his first term when he would tout his achievements that would often elicit, you know, audible laughter in the room of the General Assembly. This year, when he is patting himself on the back, declaring, you know, and basically saying, look, I'm the great peacemaker. Nothing is, you know, I'm the great, you know, builder of the American economy. No one's, and speaking in his customary superlatives, there was

pin drop silence. And that's probably because some of those leaders in this room have felt compelled to endorse him for the Nobel Peace Prize, who have felt compelled to kind of get with the program as authored by Washington. Sean, I wanted to go to the scene in the room. You wrote a senior foreign diplomat posted at the UN Texts Me. This man is stark, raving mad. Do Americans not see how embarrassing this is?

And there was a problem with the teleprompter for President Trump. Trump and White House Press Secretary Carolyn Leavitt told Fox News Jesse Waters that it looked like sabotage and she would personally see to it that there would be accountability. And Senator Mike Lee, the Republican from Utah, called for defunding the U.N. for, quote, orchestrating escalator and teleprompter malfunctions. Because we should say before the teleprompter malfunction, he had to read from his script before it went back on, as he and Melania Trump went up the escalator, it stopped. But it turned out, according to a U.N. official, that someone from the president's party who ran ahead of him inadvertently triggered the stop mechanism on the escalator. Talk about those two moments. Right.

Well, I mean, you mentioned Senator Mike Lee. Senator Mike Lee has already put forward legislation earlier this year to fully defund the United Nations and to pull the U.S. out of the U.N. So the fact that he's seizing on this episode to justify his longstanding, you know, to grind his longs, his axe is funny. I wonder if he's also calling for defunding the White House because according to the U.N., the White House was operating Trump's teleprompter. Exactly, yeah. So it appears that the teleprompter that Trump complained about. on the world stage. At the day, as the General Assembly was operated by the White House and was malfunctioning

probably because of some error within his team, you heard the president of the General Assembly, Annalena Baerbach, say immediately afterwards that because of a lot of queries we're getting from delegations, we can confirm that there's nothing wrong with the teleprompter. It's working perfectly. And that was a discreet but very clear moment. And it didn't seem thereafter that any of the world leaders who spoke after Trump had any issues there either yeah yeah i wanted to ask you on the 80th anniversary of the united nations again a body that the united states uh was a prime mover of creating uh and it's still providing a

significant percentage the biggest percentage of the collective u.n budget what is all the what does this uh attitude of the trump administration uh mean for that world old body? Well, the Trump administration's view is that the UN is too big and does too much. And its function should be paired down to focus more exclusively on solving conflict. That's their general premise of how they approach the UN. They have a lot of particular bees in their bonnet about wings of the UN system. They've pulled the US out of the WHO, the UNESCO, the UN's cultural agency. They see whole aspect of the UN system as kind of irredeemably biased anti-Israel. And I think this is not new. This has been a long-standing U.S. suspicion and complained.

Reagan pulled the U.S. out of UNESCO in the 80s. But successive U.S. administrations have long understood that the U.N. is a value ad for American power. It's a platform for the U.S. to to meet the world, for the U.S. to be present at every conversation. It matters for an idea of American power that the U.S. is the kind of guarantor of the U.N. But that no longer is the abiding view among Republicans. And there's in general, and this is, this is in keeping with Trump's own political style and foreign policy worldview, there's a suspicion of having to operate in these kinds of institutions in the first place. He prefers transactional bilateral deal making. The UN is not about that kind of dealmaking. The UN is a multilateral forum. And so there's

a kind of clash between the MAGA worldview and the whole ethos of the UN, and it's almost irreconcilable. The big news of the week is France, Portugal, Britain, Australia, joining somewhere near 150 other countries, member states of the UN in recognizing the state, the country of Palestine. Trump repeated his criticism of their action. Some of this body is seeking to unilaterally recognize a Palestinian state. The rewards would be too great for Hamas terrorists for their atrocities. This could have been solved so long ago. but instead of giving in to Hamas's ransom demands those who want peace should be united with

one message, release the hostages now. Just release the hostages now. The United States now becomes the only member of the UN Security Council not to recognize the state of Palestine, the significance of what Trump said. It's hugely significant in that, I mean, we've seen over the course of this hideous conflict, the U.S. and Israel's isolation deepening on the world stage. You've seen all these governments, especially now in Western Europe, recognizing that no one's under the illusion that making this move creates a Palestinian state, but it shows a level of political commitment to the Palestinians that many believe is necessary. And it's a reminder to Israel that

what Israel is doing won't be ignored and the extent to which Israel is basically destroying the conditions for a Palestinian state in the minds of a lot of European diplomats I've spoken to, there has to be some kind of consequence to it. Now, I think you could turn around and say the fact that the U.N.,

the U.S. has blocked Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas from even coming to the U.N. this year, that it sort of just scoffs at these kinds of moves. It does also illustrate a bit of the weakness of the UN system. that you have a veto-wielding security council member just standing in the middle, standing in the way of any kind of political progress at the UN on this issue.

And it shows to a certain extent the fact that for all our discussions of a post-American world or the decline of American power, if the U.S. wants to position itself in an antagonistic way, it still will get what it need. It still will be effective. I want to end where the UN General Assembly began, as it does every year with Brazil. In Trump's UN address, he said he interacted briefly with the Brazilian President Luis Anasya Lula de Silva, who spoke before him, gave the opening address at the General Assembly. Trump said the two will meet soon. Trump said the two had, quote, excellent chemistry, saying it's a good sign. This comes after Trump imposed new 50 percent tariffs on Brazilian imports over the prosecution.

of former Brazilian president, Trump ally Jair Bolsonaro. Earlier this month, Brazil's Supreme Court sentenced Bolsonaro to more than 27 years in prison for plotting a military coup after his election defeat in 2022. Trump also sanctioned the Supreme Court justice who led the probe into Bolsonaro now as well sanctioned the judge's wife. President Lula opened the UN General Assembly just before Trump spoke. There is no justification for unilateral and arbitrary measures against our institutions and our economy. The attack on the independence of the judiciary is unacceptable.

This interference in internal affairs is aided by a subservient far right that longs for its former hegemony. Before the eyes of the world, Brazil sent a message to all aspiring autocrats and those who support them. Our democracy and our sovereignty are non-negotiated. negotiable. Ishaantador, your final response and the significance of what Lula said? Well, it was a very striking set piece to have Lula precede Trump, to have Lula almost directly attack the United States for its unilateral actions against Brazil. He spoke about the meticulous way in which the judiciary has operated in Brazil and the

unfairness of the U.S. bullying of Brazil. He also, you know, he has spent many interviews telling us that if Trump was Brazilian, he would be under arrest and perhaps imprisoned for his role in the January 6th, 2021 insurrection of the Capitol, and that it's a testament to Brazilian democracy as opposed to American democracy or the American system that Bolsonaro received the justice that he did. Now, if there's going to be some kind of softening or thaw, it's unclear. I have heard from the Brazilians that there are, are no immediate plans for Lula and Trump to meet. So whatever Trump touted from the General

Assembly, it's a bit unclear if there'll be any follow-through from that. I want to thank you very much for being with us. Global Affairs columnist at the Washington Post will link to your pieces. Among them, Trump versus Lula was a window into MAGA at the UN and a Trump-shaped wrecking ball swings toward a faltering United Nations. Coming up, we look at the Trump administration's claims about autism and vaccines. We'll look at Trump's War on Science with Dr. Peter Hottes. Stay with us. Who do you think you are?

He plays us with his hate, turns man against man, but it's really not a game. And I pray to the ancestors' love. Do not be fooled by this man's foolish talk. The serpent woke again in different times and places. There's a burning cross leading the mob people in chains. He's a quack, circus sack, creeping from the past. He's the symbol of the monster we no longer want to be what we used to be. The earth trembles with his names.

Mussolini, Adolf Hitler, Pinochit, no respect for woman, no respect for race. The Demogod by Lila Downs in our Democracy Now studio. This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org, the War and Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman with Juan Gonzalez. We turn now to the subject of autism and false claims about the causes of autism made by President Trump and Health and Human Services Secretary Robert of Kennedy, Jr., at a news conference at the White House on Monday. President Trump, without evidence, linked autism to vaccines and said the combination MMR vaccine should be broken up into separate shots for measles, mumps, and rubella.

But he couldn't remember the word Rubella. Trump also recommended removing aluminum from vaccines and said parents should wait until their children are 12 to vaccinate against hepatitis B, falsely stating it's only transmitted sexually, which isn't true. So saying infants shouldn't have the Hep B shot, they should wait when in fact it is transmitted through breast milk in utero and in the home. Trump also promoted the unproven claims that the common painkiller, acetaminophen, brand named Tylenol, causes autism and children if taken during pregnancy. First, effective immediately, the FDA will be notifying physicians at the use of, well, let's see how we say that. Acetaminopin. Acetaminopin. Is that okay?

which is basically commonly known as Tylenol during pregnancy can be associated with a very increased risk of autism. So taking Tylenol is not good. I'll say it. It's not good. The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists called President Trump's remarks about Tylenol, irresponsible, adding it's highly unsettling that our federal health agencies are willing to make an announcement that will affect the health and well-being of millions of people without the backing of reliable data.

Dr. Helen Tager Flosberg, founder of the Coalition of Autism Scientists, said, quote, When the President of the United States makes claims like this, we know that many parents will be listening, and the impact may be truly devastating, unquote. For more, we're joined by Dr. Peter Hotez, Dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine in Texas, where he's also co-director of the Texas Children's Center for Vaccine Development. He's the author of several books, including vaccines did not cause Rachel's autism, My Journey as a Vaccine Scientist, Pediatrician, and Autism Dad, and his new book co-authored

with Dr. Michael Mann, Science Under Siege, How to Fight the Five Most Powerful Forces that Threaten Our World. Dr. Hotez, welcome back to Democracy Now. I want to reiterate that point that you are the father of an autistic daughter, as well as a scientist. If you can talk about this moment with President Trump stating one unproven fact after another. And talk about Tylenol, what we know and what we don't know. Yeah, yeah, Amy, it was 15, 20 minutes of a complete fact-free news conference. I think, you know, the best way to

approach this is to go back to first principles and understand what is autism and how does it come about. We've learned so much about autism and I wrote about it in the book, which, by the way, came out. I wrote that book, vaccines did not cause Rachel's autism after a year. of conversations with Mr. Kennedy, that was the product of that. And then we followed up, we followed up this in the brand new book, Science Under Siege, with Michael Mann. But we know a lot about autism. Now, autism occurs through the action of more than 100 different autism genes.

So that's why we call it an autism spectrum, not just autism, because it's 100, really, a hundred different conditions of varying degrees of neurologic activity. All of these genes are involved in early fetal brain development. So we can explain the vast amount of autism just simply through the understanding the genetics and understanding how these genes operate. Now, it doesn't mean that there's no environmental exposures or triggers, but it's operating through influencing autism genes early on in fetal brain development. The best example we know of a teratogen that or something that will affect autism genes that will give an autism phenotype is a medication called depicote, otherwise known as valproic acid, which they didn't talk about at all.

So if you're pregnant and not aware of it, an anti-seizure medication called valproic acid, valproate or depicote, it'll interact with autism genes and give you an more likely than not could give you an autism phenotype. That looks pretty strong. And there are about half a dozen other chemical exposures that may do the same thing. And certainly not vaccines, because, again, these are all events happening in early fetal brain development. So it's not just the massive evidence showing there's no link between MMR or thimerosol or alum or all the other things they say in autism because it's, it's happening in pregnancy. So there's no plausibility. But then let's get to Tylenol. Now, of the half a dozen chemical exposures that look pretty strongly linked to autism and interacting with autism genes, Tylenol right now is not really on that list.

Because about a year ago, there was a very large study done out of the Karolinska Institute in Sweden, and this is one of the top research institutes in universities in Europe. And it showed pretty clearly among those two million people enrolled in the study that there was no link between Thailand. and autism. There was a follow-up study of what's called a meta-analysis or a systematic review where the study found some studies could show a link, others don't. Certainly worth following up on, not as higher priority from my point of view as the others, higher priority ones on the list. And if they held a news conference to say, look, we are interested in autism, we do think this is important for the health of the American people. We're going to convene the experts. We're going to convene some of the best neuroscientists, genetics experts, environmental health scientists,

and bring them together to really pin down that complex interplay between autism genes and the handful of environmental exposures we know about further down the list. We may also look at Tylenol. Fair enough. I think nobody would argue with that. But instead what we got was, I call it fact-free, this specific laser focus on Tylenol, which doesn't make sense. And then the last thing I'll say is, again, the way they talk about autism in this such sort of baby terms and this very simplistic idea that we're going to find the cause of autism or the cure for autism. It rings hollow because we know this complex interplay between autism genes, maybe some

environmental exposures early on in pregnancy. It's like talking about any other complex condition. We wouldn't say, you know, for instance, we're going to find the cause of cancer, the cure of cancer. Nobody would accept that because we know it's a complex interplay between oncogenes and the environment. So it was certainly an exercise and frustration for those of us in the scientific community.

Dr. Holtes, I wanted to ask you, how much of the rising rates in autism are the result of increased testing or recognition of the condition, and how much do you feel are real? So that's a really important question, and it's a fair question to look at in more detail. Clearly, we've shifted how we diagnose autism. We used to call it autism, now we call it autism spectrum disorder, and you have this whole very interesting discussion about neurodiversity that brings in a lot of bioethics issues. So starting in around nearly 2000s, the American Academy of Pediatrics, started asking pediatricians and recommended pediatricians to do autism screening between the first and second year of life.

And guess what? The numbers went up. We also got better at diagnosing autism, girls, and women. We used to say it was 10 to 1 boys to girls. Now the proportions roughly 3 to 1. But as we get better in diagnosing autism and girls and women because girls and women tend to camouflage her autism better, we often. diagnosed their comorbidity such as OCD, obsessed with compulsive disorder or some of the eating disorders. It may even get closer to parity. We've also reached underserved schools in a

better way. So we're diagnosing autism in the underrepresented minority community better. So all of that feeds into the likely explanation accounting for the steep rise in autism cases. Now, I do think there is an environmental component. And I remember having that conversation with Mr. Kennedy years ago. I'd say, look, Bobby, I can identify half a dozen chemical exposures like Valprote. You're an environmental attorney. This is your sweet spot, man. You should be all over this and really look into it. At the time, you know, no zero interest. Now, you know, he comes along, you know, years later and talks about Tylenol, which, again, you know, is not what the science is telling us. So I do think there could be an environmental component to that as well. It should be looked

into, but certainly not with the kind of rhetoric and the approach that this administration is proposing. Let's go to Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., recommending the use of Luke of Warren, claiming it improves verbal communication when given to children on the spectrum. We have also identified an exciting therapy that may benefit larger numbers of children who suffer from autism. Beer-reviewed literature has documented that up to 60 percent of four. folate-deficient children with the ASD, can have improved verbal communications if given

lucavoren. I have instructed NIH, FDA, and CMS to help doctors treat children appropriately. Jay will help tell that story, which started with sound science, the kind that restores faith in government. So that's Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., a man you know well, you spent a year talking to him, your book about your daughter on the spectrum, Rachel, it also comes out of that. Explain what this is and what he's saying and what does anecdotal versus evidence-based medicine mean. So again, this is getting back to that first principle and why we started out this way,

you know, 100 different autism genes. There are many different phenotypes. There are various subsets of kids and adults on the autism spectrum who have what are called auto-antibodies to different components of their body. Some have antibodies to what are called glycos, glycosvigolipids, which is a type of glycolipid. Others have auto-antibodies to different membrane proteins. Some have what are called ANA antibodies, which you can also antinuclear antibodies that you

can find in lupus. And there is a subset that seems to have antibodies against folate receptor, which is a metabolite used for the synthesis of purines and perimidines in DNA. And perhaps for that subset of kids and adults, there could be some benefit for giving Luke of Warren. And there are even some studies to support that. And that's the way it needs to be framed. But again, it's always spoken about in these baby terms, right? Tylenol is the cause of autism. It's ridiculous. Or now Lucavoren and is going to come to be used as a major treatment. Again, what we need is better understanding, better, you know, precision medicine to really

focus on the subgroup of kids and adults who may benefit from lukewarm. And Dr. Holtes, in a broader sense, this war on science that the Trump administration that has unleashed all the cutbacks in research and the reduction. of university research capacities, the doctors, many researchers fleeing to Canada or to Europe or Asia to be able to continue to conduct their research. What's the impact on the United States of this war? Well, first of all, let's look at why this is happening. You know, Mr. Kennedy and this new version of Health and Human Services is very tied in with the wellness and influencer industry and which, you know, a lot of it is built up whenever they can buy in

bulk and jack up the price and then sell with $1,600 telehealth visits. I mean, if you ever wondered why they're all antiparacetic drugs, Ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, fenbendizol, as we report in the book, it's because they're cheap, available in bulk. He can jack up the price and sell it with a 1600 telehealth visit. But it also involves attacking mainstream science. you know, they attack vaccines, and that's why you heard Mr. Kennedy during our terrible measles epidemic that began in West Texas, you know, he says, well, yes, you can get the measles Montrebella vaccine, or you can get this cocktail of supplements, BDesanide, and vitamin A and

chlorathoramacin, you're scratching your head, is it, where the heck does that come from? This is, that's his pivot to the health and wellness and influencer industry. But part of that, tragically, is for them, for the health and wellness influence, or industry to sell their snake oil, they have to attack mainstream science. And the scientist then portray people like myself as cartoon villains or public enemies. And that means attacking the academic health centers. And they falsely allege that they're tied up with pharma companies and that sort of thing. And that's where the NIH funding cuts come.

It's all to benefit. That's what the MAHA movement is. It's basically an economic stimulus plan for the health and wellness and influencer industry. and it's very damaging and and it's particularly tough for our young scientists who are just starting out or look you know sometimes i feel like they look at me in the desert like look at me like moses in the desert you know why did you bring us here and and and you have to you know find paths of light to carve through this because it it has made things very complicated i still think you can as we talk about in the book science under siege you know where there's urgency but there's

also agency. I do think we can find a path of light through this darkness, but it's certainly gotten more complicated. We just have 30 seconds, Dr. Hotez, but I wanted to go back to this point where Trump says to pregnant people, just tough it out if your temperature spikes. What is the absolutely damaging message here when people who are pregnant are told that if their temperature spikes, this can damage the fetus? Tough it out. don't take Tylenol? Yeah, that's right. I mean, I'm not an obstetrician,

but talking to my obstetrics colleagues, you know, one of the things that they're aware of is that just like certain harmful drugs such as Depakote has a harmful effect on the fetus fever itself or some of the viruses that can cause the fever can have a harmful effect on the fetus. And so there may be a real downside from not taking Tylenol because we don't have a lot of options for pregnant women.

And, you know, the obstetricians tend to avoid using aspirin or ibuprofen. So there's not a lot of choice out there. So to come out and just push Tylenol when the evidence for it is not there is completely reckless on my part. And I don't understand why the administration chose to do that. Dr. Peter Hotez, I want to thank you for being with us, Dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine and Professor at Baylor College of Medicine. Among his books, his latest book is called Science Under Siege, How to Fight the Five Most Powerful Forces that Threaten Our World. Coming up, President Trump signs an executive order calling Antifa a terrorist organization.

Stay with us. There's a man homeless and hungry. There's a wind It's hard and biting There's a song You need a sing There's a fuse You need a lighting

And it's no secret The day is coming And it's a day I hope to see that if they ask... Let Freedom Ring performed by Tom Morello for Democracy Now's 25th anniversary. It was during the pandemic,

and so he performed on Zoom. This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org, the War and Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman with Juan Gonzalez. We look now at how President Trump signed an executive order Monday that designates the anti-fascist movement

known as Antifa, as a domestic terrorist organization. Critics note the U.S. doesn't actually have a domestic terrorism law. The order reads in part, quote, Antifa is a militarist anarchist enterprise that explicitly calls for the overthrow of the U.S. government, law enforcement authorities, and our system of law, unquote. A 2020 Congressional Research Service report describes Antifa as a decentralized movement without a clear structure or leader. Antifa traces its roots both to.

anti-fascist movements in Europe and to opposition that formed during Trump's first term in office. Trump's new executive order also calls for the, quote, investigatory and prosecutorial action against financial supporters of Antifa. This is part of a wider attack on his critics that ramped up even further after the assassination of the conservative activist Charlie Kirk, even though law enforcement has made no links to Antifa and the alleged killer. For more, we're joined by Will Potter, award-winning investigative journalist author, who focuses

on attacks on civil liberties in the name of fighting terrorism. His new book on factory farms and fascism is titled Little Red Barnes, Hiding the Truth from Farm to Fable. He's also author of Green is the New Red, an insider's account of a social movement under siege. Welcome back to Democracy Now, Will. Great to have you in our studio. Start off by responding to Antifa, the movement, being called a terrorist organization. This is really a historic turning point.

and a radical escalation in the war on dissent and the war on protest. It's not about Antifa because Antifa is not an organization. I think what Trump is very clearly signaling here is using this as a catch-all to go against the broader left and anyone who speaks out against fascism right now, while at the same time giving continued unchecked authority to the FBI to ignore the rise of right-wing violence. And Will, how is Charlie Kirk's murder being used by the Trump administration? to attack the broader left in this country? This is what fascists do. They deflect and misdirect. So they use opportunities like this to

rewrite the narrative and then shift and blame their opposition and usher in, frankly, calls for violence and crackdowns. And I think we need to remember that even though there's no evidence linking Charlie Kirk's shooters to Antifa or any other left organization, they're going to proceed recklessly anyway. The intention is to capitalize on this, to crack down on their opponents and to consolidate authoritarian power. I want to go to Vice President Vance, who hosted Charlie Kirk's podcast after Charlie Kirk was assassinated, vowing to dismantle institutions on the political left that he claimed were promoting violence and terrorism. Of course, we have to make sure that the killer is brought to justice. And importantly, we have to talk about this incredibly destructive

movement of left-wing extremism that has grown up over the last few years. And I believe is part of the reason why Charlie was killed by an assassin's bullet. We're going to talk about how to dismantle that. So can you talk about what Vance is talking about how to dismantle this? He had Stephen Miller on, the White House advisor, who talked about going after what he called leftist organizations, left-wing organizations. And what are the historical antecedents for this, Will? The historical precedent is when authoritarian say they want to destroy you and eradicate you, you need to listen. They're being transparent and open about their intentions. Historically, what we've seen in terms of political repression, as I've

documented post-9-11, but also in broader historical timelines, is when these attacks start on the fringes or more organizations like Antifa or environmentalists or Black Lives Matter, it spreads more and more towards the center. And that's what Vance has indicated. This is not about fringe or radical organizations. This is about the mainstream left funding, foundations, and institutional support. And, well, I just wanted to pivot briefly to your book, Little Red Barnes. You said a 10-year investigation that you've conducted of factory farms and fascism? That's right. It has been a long journey, Juan, that started investigating factory farms as one of the top contributors to climate change and these repressive measures that are being used to silence journalists and to criminalize photography and how that is spreading to other social movements. The connection to fascism is that as the FBI has relentlessly focused on environmentalists and animal activists, it's deliberately ignored the rise of far-right violence.

And more broadly, it's facilitated it through informants and entrapment schemes. They're allowing this rise of white supremacists in far-right violence while they're focused on people taking photographs of animal cruelty. Speak more about this. I mean, this is a 10-year investigation really important, especially with this war on science. And you also talk about how animal agriculture is trying to discredit the whole issue of climate change as well. It really amounts to what I would consider the authoritarian playbook post-9-11. It's about not only rewriting facts, but also censoring, misdirecting, pumping up fraudulent science like the oil industry and tobacco industry did for decades, but also shifting and embracing outright authoritarian tactics like criminalizing journalism, labeling civil disobedience as terrorism. Big agriculture has embraced all of this as a pathway to protect their profits and really keep consumers in the dark.

about what's happening. Why did you single out photography? Just explain. There is a wave of legislation that passed in multiple states in the U.S. called ag-gag laws that criminalize anyone, including journalists, who take photographs of factory farm, cruelty and pollution and workers' rights abuses. And now that spread globally as well. Why the title Little Red Barnes? This is the foundational myth. This is the story we're all raised on of what a farm looks like, and it struck me in the investigation that this is also the foundational myth of fascism. When we hear Make America Great Again, we're talking about this return to an idyllic past that never existed. And this is what fascists have always done. They kind of create this

mythology that we have to return to this golden era, and therefore their attacks on dissent today are legitimized. We clearly have to continue this conversation. We will and post it at DemocracyNow.org. Will Potter, investigative journalist, author of little red barns hiding the truth from farm to fable. I'm Amy Goodman, Juan Gonzalez.