Democracy Now! Audio - Democracy Now! 2025-10-14 Tuesday

Episode Date: October 14, 2025

Democracy Now! Tuesday, October 14, 2025

From New York, this is Democracy Now. The momentous breakthrough that we're here to celebrate tonight is more than the end of the war in Gaza. It's with God's help. It'll be the new beginning for an entire, beautiful, middle. As President Trump celebrates the ceasefire hostage deal, major questions remain over what happens next. We'll look at the Gaza summit in Egypt and go to the Gaza Strip to speak with Al Jazeera's Hani Mahmoud. No one expected to survive this relentless genocide, no one at all. Every day we woke up saying thank you, we're alive.

Plus, we speak to the Israeli Knesset member who was ejected from President Trump's address for holding a sign that read, Recognize Palestine. And we go to Physicians for Human Rights Israel to talk about the Gaza doctors who are still being held in prison, including the pediatrician, Dr. Hussam Abu Safia, the director of the Kamel Adwan Hospital. All that and more coming up. Welcome to Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org, the warrant peace report. I'm Amy Goodman.

Humanitarian aid has begun to trickle into the Gaza Strip. where over 2 million people have faced widespread starvation and malnutrition following Israel's two-year assault that the United Nations and human rights groups have condemned as a genocide. Earlier today, Israeli military forces in Gaza City killed at least five Palestinians despite the ceasefire agreement that took effect last Friday. Separately, at least three children were injured Monday by what appeared to be unexploded Israeli ordinance dropped near Al-Shefa Hospital. The United Nations has warned it could take more than a decade to diffuse and clean up

unexploded bombs and other explosives left behind by Israeli forces. On Monday, thousands of Palestinians gathered in Han Yunus and the West Bank to celebrate the return of nearly 2,000 Palestinian prisoners and captives freed as part of the ceasefire deal. Many of those released had been jailed by Israel without charge. or trial. They showed signs of starvation, medical neglect, and torture. This is 48-year-old Palestinian Majid Abid, who was detained nearly two years ago. The situation is extremely, extremely hard for young men. No food, no drink, no medical care.

They face constant oppression, torment. I wish everyone would pay attention to their situation. May God protect everyone. Thank God. It's an indescribable feeling. Another 154 Palestinian prisoners were deported by Israel to Egypt rather than return to occupied Palestine. Meanwhile, Israeli authorities say they've identified the bodies of four hostages returned by Hamas as part of the ceasefire deal, while families express anger that the bodies of 24 other Israelis have not yet been returned. Human rights groups say Israel holds the bodies of over 700 Palestinians, including dozens of children, children who Israel has used as bargaining chips in negotiations. On Monday, President Trump co-chaired a summit in Sharmal-Sheikh with Egyptian President

of Delfat al-Sisi. The leaders of over two dozen countries were in attendance for the ceasefire signing ceremony. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu did not attend. We'll have more on the Gaza ceasefire deal in the exchange of Israeli and Palestinian hostages after headlines. A journalist who was abducted by Israeli forces last week as she accompanied a Gaza-bound humanitarian aid vessel, say she was tortured in Israeli custody alongside activists seeking to break Israel's siege on Gaza. Noah Avishag Schnal described the abuse in a video statement to drop site news with bruises from her ordeal clearly visible on her face.

Any flotilla member who upset the Israeli guards was subjected to twisted and tightened handcuffs and some received beatings. I was hung from the metal shackles on my wrists and ankles and beaten in the stomach, back, face, ear, and skull by a group of men and women guards, one of whom sat on my neck and face blocking my airways. Many comrades, understandably, do not want their identity made public when recounting this treatment. During the evening, the men were tormented by guards with attack dogs and guns. The women were threatened with pepper spray. our cell was awoken with threats of rape. In Afghanistan, the Taliban government says its forces kill dozens of Pakistani soldiers and border clashes over the weekend of retaliation for airstrikes in Kabul

and the bombing of a market in eastern Afghanistan last Thursday. The fighting has halted all trade and transit between the two countries, stranding hundreds of Afghan refugees. We are stranded here because of the war. People say there is fighting at the border, children, women in the border. the elderly here with us are sick. There is no water or food. We don't have enough money to survive here for even a few days. They should resolve their issues through dialogue. In war, both countries lose. No one benefits. Russian forces attacked Ukraine's second largest city, Kharkiv,

with guided bombs overnight Monday plunging 30,000 Ukrainians into darkness after targeting power transmission lines. Four people were injured when three of the bombs struck a hospital. The first strike was somewhere farther away, and the second, it was very loud. The door flew out. My window burst open. I'm just lucky that I have a ward on the other side. I just sat down, very scared. My heart ached. Not all the words were fully occupied, but there were people there who suffered from glass injuries because the windows blew out. Russia's latest attack comes as the International Atomic Energy Agency's pressing Moscow and Kiev to agree to local

ceasefires in order to restore electricity to the Russian occupies up for each a power plant, Europe's largest nuclear facility. The plant's been operating on backup diesel generators since September 23rd after fighting severed power lines, leaving it vulnerable to a nuclear disaster. It's the 10th time, and by far the longest, the plant has lost outside power. Meanwhile, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's announced plans to meet President Trump at the White House Friday as he seeks additional weapons, including long-range tomahawk missiles. In Washington, the federal government shutdown has entered its 14th day. Republican House Speaker Mike Johnson's warning this could be the longest shutdown in U.S. history. The Senate's expected

to vote today for the eighth time to fully fund the federal government. Senate Democrats say they won't approve new spending until Republicans agree to extend expiring health care subsidies under the Affordable Care Act. These shutdowns caused flight delays, shut off access to national parks, closed taxpayers' helplines at the IRS impacted the permitting process at the Environmental Protection Agency and the Transportation Department. Military personnel and their families have increasingly turned to food pantries to make ends meet. Meanwhile, several airports across the country are refusing to air a video PSA of Department of Homeland Security Secretary Christy Noem blaming Democrats for the shutdown and resulting flight delays. A spokesperson for Portland International Airport told the Washington Post, quote, we believe the Hatch Act clearly prohibits use of public assets for political purposes and messaging, unquote. The Washington Post, the New York Times, the Associated Press and CNN,

as well as conservative outlets, newsmax, and Washington Times, all announced they will not sign the Pentagon's new press policy by today's deadline. The policy states, media outlets and reporters cannot obtain any information that the Pentagon does not explicitly authorize. Matt Murray, the Washington Post executive editor, said, quote, the proposed restrictions undercut First Amendment protections by placing unnecessary constraints on gathering and publishing information, unquote. In response, Defense Secretary Pete Higgseth posted on X, a hand-waving emoji.

A 2003 CIA cable details stunning torture methods against a detainee at a black site carried out without permission and removed from reports to headquarters. The cable recounts how an interrogator put a cordless drill close to Abdul Rahim on the shiri's body and press the on switch and let the drill run. The incident reportedly took place weeks after Al Nishiri was waterboarded. at the CIA block site. A handgun was also held to his head after he'd been forced to stay awake for two and a half days in a stress position, which involved chaining his arms above his head while he was naked or wearing only a diaper. On the shir who is later charged in the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole, a military judge, Colonel Lani Acosta Jr., rejected on the Shiri's statements in detention, writing, quote, any resistance the accused might have been inclined to put up when asked

to incriminate himself, was intentionally and literally beaten out of him years before, unquote. On the Shiri's trial is set to start in June 26. Madagascar's president says he's fled the country following Genese protests that erupted last month demanding his ouster and after soldiers threw their support behind the protests. Reuters reports Andri Rajalina left Madagascar on Sunday aboard a French military. aircraft, a crackdown on dissent by his forces, killed at least 22 people, according to the United Nations. On Monday, thousands gathered in Madagascar's capital to mourn the dead and to demand justice.

The evacuation of André Rajalina was an act of interference by France and Madagascar. Why? Well, because it wasn't a coup d'état. It was just a call from the people, a call for freedom of expression. The United Nations warns some 300,000 people of fled South Sudan this year amidst renewed fighting that's threatening to return the nation to civil war. The conflict grew worse after the arrest of the first president, Riehak Meshire, unravelled a fragile power-sharing agreement. Sudan gained UN recognition as the world's newest nation in 2011, but a civil war that erupted in 2013 led to an estimated 400,000 deaths. A coalition of leading economists and former finance ministers is calling for immediate

debt relief to low and middle-income nations, warning loan repayments or squeezing out government funding for basic services leading to poverty and preventable deaths. In a letter to the World Bank and IMF, ahead of annual meetings this week, the economists, including Columbia University Professor Joe Stiglitz, write, quote, countries around the world are paying exorbitant debt servicing costs instead of paying for schools, hospitals, climate action, or other essential services, unquote. In Mexico, at least 64 people are dead. Dozens remain missing after tropical storms triggered severe flooding across five states. Authorities say some 100,000 homes have been affected.

In Alaska, Coast Guard and National Guard search and rescue crews have rescued dozens of people in coastal villages on the bearing sea after the remnants of Typhoon Halong brought hurricane force winds, storm, surge, and severe flooding to the region. Meanwhile, on the U.S. East Coast, at least three people are dead as a slow-moving Northeaster brings coastal flooding winds and heavy rain to Mid-Atlantic and northeastern states for a fourth consecutive day. A recent study authored by the University of Pennsylvania, climate scientists, including Michael Mann, found human-driven climate changes making the strongest nor'easters even stronger. New York Attorney General Letitia James spoke publicly for the first time since her federal indictment at a campaign rally for New York City mayoral candidates are on Mamdani Monday.

James has been indicted on mortgage fraud charges, which she denies after President Trump called for his political enemies to be jailed. She's being prosecuted by Trump's hand-picked U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, Lindsay Halligan, after Trump forced out the previous Trump appointed U.S. attorney. for refusing to bring charges. At the rally, Mamdani and James presented a united front against President Trump warning about the threat he poses to democracy, they said. We are witnessing the fraying of our democracy, the erosion of our system of government.

This, my friends, is a defining moment in our history. Let us stand together to defend our rights to protect every safeguard, every institution, every immigrant. We are an existential threat to billionaires who think their money can buy our democracy. We are an existential threat to a broken status quo that buries the voices of working people beneath corporations. And we are an existential threat. threat to a New York where a hard day's work isn't enough to earn you a good night's rest.

And those are some of the headlines. This is Democracy Now. Democracy Now.org, the War and Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman in New York, joined by Democracy Now's Juan Gonzalez in Chicago. Hi, Juan. Hi, Amy, and welcome to all of our listeners and viewers across the country and around the world. Well, we begin today's show in Israel, where the family members of the 20 remaining released hostages are welcoming their loved ones home. On Monday, as President Trump addressed the Israeli Knesset, a group of leftist Israeli lawmakers briefly interrupted his speech, shouting at President Trump and waving signs that said, recognize Palestine.

Everybody loves Steve, and they respect them, and they somehow can relate to them. I've known them for many years, and I've seen it over again. To take it to Khaber, Knesset, to make it out of the Ullam, to get out of the Ullam. That was very efficient. The two lawmakers were Eman Odeh and Ofer Kassif. They're members of the Hadash Tal alliance. Footage shows Professor Rashid Khalid's book, The Hundred Years' War on Palestine, resting on M.K., that's member of Knesset, Kassif's desk as he's sitting before being ousted.

He'll join us in a minute. After the two lawmakers were expelled from the Knesset, the Hadash Ta' head, Eman Oda, shared this message. I was kicked out of the Knesset for raising the simplest demand. One of the whole international community agrees on. Recognize the state of Palestine. recognize the simple truth. There are two peoples here, and no one is going anywhere. That's the Palestinian member of the parliament, Eman Oda.

We're joined now by Oferkhasif, Jewish-Israeli member of the Knesset and the leftist Hadash Tal coalition. Welcome back to democracy now, sir. If you can start off by describing exactly what happened, you have for the first time President Trump addressing the Israeli Knesset before taking off for Egypt, where he signed the ceasefire deal. Talk about what you did. Well, first of all, thank you for having me. Yesterday there was a disgusting display of fluddery and personality cult by two meglomaniacs were hungry for power and blood.

that's the main bond between Netanyahu and Trump. And we use this opportunity which I dare say or I would like to say that luckily doesn't happen too often that someone like Trump

attends the Knesset and we used it to display our signs calling for the recognition of the state of Palestine. This was a minimum and I would say even polite protest against the policy of mainly the government of Israel, the genocidal government

of Israel, the government that sacrificed the Israeli hostages and the even Israeli soldiers on the altar of messianic crazy ideas. And all of that was taken place under the auspices. of the governments of the United States, in plural, Biden, and later on, Trump. And this was our protest against the policy that both share. That's the reason we did it. And Oferkos, if I wanted to ask you, there's been much made here in the United States of Trump's initiative to create this peace plan, but to what degree do you feel what happened in the weeks before, especially at the UN General Assembly, as one U.S. ally after

another, Canada, Australia, the United Kingdom, France, Portugal, recognized the state of Palestine. What impact do you think that had on pushing forward this ceasefire? First of all, I totally agree if that's what you wanted to imply, that the main reason for the change in President Trump's policy towards the genocide in Gaza is the changes, are the changes that have been occurring throughout the globe. First of all, it's the huge demonstrations of different peoples across the globe in Europe, in America, in Australia, in East Asia, et cetera, et cetera. millions of people, of good people, of peace activists, people who were terrified by the pictures

from what was going on in Gaza, those demonstrations for sure influenced had their impact on Trump. And same about those leaders like Sanchez in Spain or Petro in Colombia and others, there's no doubt that if we should thank someone for ending the genocide and releasing the Israeli hostages, it's not Trump, let alone Netanyahu. It is the demonstrations that I mentioned and some of the leaders of different countries in the world. And the proof is that a couple of days ago, President Trump told Prime Minister Netanyahu, and I quote, almost a word by word. Israel cannot stand

against the old world. Why did he say that? He said so, specifically because he was witnessing those demonstrations and change of mood, including the recognition by 150

states, recognition of the state of Palestine, and the two-state solution. So know that that was the main impact on Trump, alas, he still hasn't gone enough, far enough, to say explicitly that the two-state solution and the liberation of the Palestinian people are a must, and I hope that you will. And what is your sense now of the impact on Israeli society and on your democracy

of this peace plan and the fate of Netanyahu in the future? First of all, if I may refer to what you said about Israel as a democracy, it pops out to my mind, you know, something that Mahatma Gandhi said. He was asked once what he thought about British civilization. And he said, I think it's a wonderful idea. So if you ask me what I think about the Israeli democracy, I would answer the same. I think it's a wonderful idea. Unfortunately, we are not there yet.

That's not a democracy. but perhaps that's for another chat. But the influence of the change in the international atmosphere does influence the public discourse within Israel still too little and too late, but it's better than nothing and never. You could see that throughout the demonstrations in the last two years against the so-called war, which I prefer to call a genocide,

to the demonstrations that called to release the hostages by sealing a deal that will end the genocide. You could see throughout those two years, and we participated in those demonstrations all the time since the beginning. Within those demonstrations, there were two main voices. One voice focused on the fate of the Israeli hostages, and soldiers and totally ignored the fate of the Palestinians. The other voice which we led and was in the beginning in a tiny minority

said that we do, of course, care a lot and want to release the hostages and stop the bloodshed of Israeli soldiers too, but obviously we also emphasized the terrible death toll and destruction, et cetera, in Gaza and of Palestinians. We were in the beginning quite isolated and marginalized, sometimes even physically attacked. But you could see that as time went by, we began to gain more and more support. So towards the end, we, I guess, is constituted perhaps 20, 30% of the demonstrators. So that, of course, shows that the public discourse and the public opinion within Israel, did shift. You could also see that in different organizations from below, so to speak,

by workers, you know, social workers, physicians, professors, teachers, teachers, artists, and writers who began to raise a voice in the last few months against the genocide in Gaza, using the term genocide clearly in explicitly, like the very famous writer David Grossman did in an interview to La Republica and Italian newspaper. And no less importantly is that no less than 600 ex-generals in the so-called Israeli security services also signed a petition in which they referred to the ongoing situation in Gaza as ethnic cleansing and war crimes

and called to stop that. So you could see a change in the public discourse and in the public opinion in Israel. And, of course, as the demonstrations in the world shift also grew, it also influenced some of the Israeli discourse. So in the end, you could see this kind of influence of the international community on the Israeli public. During his address to the Knesset Monday, President Trump suggested Netanyahu should be pardoned on corruption charges.

This is what he said. May I have an idea? Mr. President, why don't you give him a pardon? Give him a pardon. You know, whether we like it or not, this has been one of the greatest wartime presidents. This has been one of the greatest wartime presidents. And cigars and champagne, who the hell cares about?

So that's President Trump calling for Netanyahu to be pardoned. Can you talk about the significance of this, for Kassif, and for people to understand, many believe that he extended the assault on Gaza to extend his own trial, to put off the end of that trial. And we're not even talking here about the charges in the International Court of Crimes Against Humanity. Absolutely. There's no doubt about it. But we should add to that that Netanyahu is not alone. If you put the all blame on Netanyahu, we missed a great deal of others who are totally blamed for the carnage that took place in Gaza

and the sacrifice of the Israeli hostages as well. Those are combined, you know, totally and there's no way to distinguish between them. So Netanyahu, on the one hand, is interested only in his own. good. Just like Trump, I mean, those two psychopaths are good friends. It's not a coincidence. One criminal endorses the

other criminal. And whether we are talking about crimes of corruption or other crimes, including crimes against humanity or war crimes, et cetera, et cetera. So as far as the Tanyao himself is concerned,

from the very beginning, he was interested in doing whatever possible to stay in power and by that to refrain from being behind bars. That is only interest. He doesn't care about the well-being of the Israelis, including the hostages, and obviously, let alone, the well-being of Palestinians. And because of that, he formed a coalition and a government

that in the past, he himself refused to form because he knows exactly who we are dealing with. We are dealing with messianic bigots. We are dealing with a lethal fascists. But Netanyahu decided to join forces with them, to add them, and to base his government and coalition on them, not only by the way, in the sense of collaborating with bigots like Benfield and Smottwich, that is to say to another parties.

But to change the Likud Party from within, let's not forget that in the last few years, Netanyahu transformed totally the Likud Party, the Likud Party, which was never my cup of tea, but the Likud Party had, you know, serious politicians, people with values, which I do not share, which I object, but still with values, and some respect and commitment to democratic rules

of the game. What Netanyahu did once he understood that he may find himself in prison is to get rid of those people and to substitute them and they add others who are messianic

and bigots and racist no less than Smotich, Benvir and their allies. So all together we can see a combination, a constellation of a prime minister who is accused in serious corruption charges,

who is afraid as a coward, who is afraid of prison, together with messianic fascist bigots who think that the blood of human beings, Israelis and Palestinians alike, is the red carpet of the Messiah. So that's, that combination actually created the genocide in Gaza that took place and they continued for two years at the expense also of the Israeli hostages and soldiers.

That's the key to understand what was going on. And when President Trump dares say that Netanyar should get a pardon, first of all, of course, he intervenes in domestic issues which are not his business. But on top of that, and in my view, Worse than that is that he actually speaks the language of a mob, of the mob. He's not only soprano, but he behaves as if he was. Oh, for Kassif, I want to thank you so much for being with us,

member of the Israeli Knesset and the Hadash Tal coalition on Monday. He and the Palestinian parliamentarian Eman Oda were ousted from the Knesset during President Trump's speech after the two shouted terrorists. at Trump and held up signs that read recognized Palestine. We didn't shout anything. We were totally silent. We didn't shout at all. We just held the sign recognized Palestine.

That's it. We didn't shout. We didn't care. We didn't interrupt. We kept silent. And are you going to be allowed back into the Knesset or were you expelled? Who knows? At the moment, I am suspended anyway until the end of December because I dare say that

there was genocide going on. It was forbidden to say that there was a genocide. But I appeal to the Supreme Court. Let's see what's going to happen. Well, when we come back, we're going to physicians for human rights Israel in Ramallah to talk about the Gaza doctors who are still being held imprisoned by Israel, including the pediatrician, Dr. Hussama Busafia, the director of the Kmel Edwin Hospital. And we hope to go to Gaza, which has lost internet connection, but we hope to speak with Al Jazeera's Honey MacMood. This is Democracy Now, back in 30 seconds. The late Randy Weston, playing the blues, performing the song when he spoke with Democracy Now in 2000,

performing the song when he spoke with Democracy Now in 2012 to see our interview in his performance. You can go to Democracy Now.org. I'm Amy Goodman. This is Democracy Now, joined by Democracy Now as Juan Gonzalez. It's the War and Peace Report. On Monday, thousands of Palestinians gathered in Khan Yunus and the West Bank to celebrate the return of nearly 2,000 Palestinian prisoners freed as part of the ceasefire deal. Many were jailed by Israel without charge or trial, showing signs of starvation, medical neglect, and torture. Now there's mounting international pressure for Israel to release more Palestinians, including the pediatrician, Dr. Husama Abu Safi, a director of Gaza's Kamaladwan hospital.

He's been held under harsh conditions without charge since December when his Israeli troops stormed his hospital, claiming without evidence he was a Hamas command, that it was a Hamas command center. Soldiers forced Dr. Abu Safia out at gunpoint, along with patients, he'd refused to abandon. There's famous footage showing him wearing his white medical coat as he climbed over the rubble to walk toward an Israeli tank before he was detained. Dr. Savia had continued his work even after an Israeli attack killed his son. also suffered injuries. This is a Palestinian prisoner freed earlier in the year named Hakim, describing what Dr. Abu Safia had been exposed to in Israeli detention.

Dr. Hussam was beaten, especially Dr. Hussam and us, the medical staff, out of all other captives. They beat us, cursed at us, and starved us, and they started punching him. Are you the doctor? Come here. They'd beat him. are also growing for Israel to release Dr. Marwan al-Hams, the director of field hospitals in Gaza. For more, we go to the Occupied West Bank, to Ramallah, where we're joined by Najee Abbas, director of the Prisoners Department at Physicians for Human Rights Israel, which in February released the report unlawfully detained, tortured, and starve, the plight of Gaza's medical workers in Israeli custody.

Welcome back to Democracy Now, Najee. why don't we start off with Dr. Abu Safia and then just talk about how many doctors, nurses, hospital staff are detained in Israeli jails? Good morning, Amy. As you mentioned in your words, Dr. Abouzafia is still detained, unfortunately. Hammond, beside him, we know about 19 doctors

who are still in detention and weren't released yesterday, and also about dozens of nurses and paramedics who didn't get released yesterday. Why, we don't know yet, but they are still in detention without being, again, without being charged officially with any offense. And what about the plans now for rebuilding the healthcare system in Gaza? what do you think are the immediate first steps that need to be taken? As we said from the being, the arrest and the detention of the health care workers,

one of its goals for the Israeli army was destroying the health system in Gaza. The health system in Gaza now need every source that can help to rebuild this facility, to help to repel the staff and keeping these doctors, these nurses and detention is denying from the opportunity to repeal this system. And the people who are being released now, many of them have lost, have severe weight loss and are basically were almost starved while they were in captivity. What do we know about the deliberate withholding of food and water from Palestinian detainees? That's it. We visited Dr. Abbasofia a month ago. In the 25th of September, our lawyer, lawyer of P. Chari met him for the first time, actually. In offer of prison, Dr. Abu Safia complained about being starved, about violence, daily violence in offer prison. He witnessed and described that he's suffering from medical issues and medical problems

and he's not getting any follow-up. He didn't meet a doctor for months. Actually, Dr. Absofia described that he, in the day of the visit, it was the first time that he received clean clothes. After nine months in Israeli detention, it was the first time before our visit that he got a clean clothes. So we need to emphasize we are not calling for the release of these health care workers just because they, first of all, because they are unlawfully detained, they are not being charged. But second of all, because every one of them, the ones who suffer from health conditions, but even those who are healthy before the arrest, they are facing a very serious risk for their health and for their lives.

They are being tortured, they are facing violence daily, they are denied from medical care, denied from their basic rights, they are being starved, they are disconnected totally from the outside world, they don't know what's happening, what's happening with the deal, if they are getting released, if they are not, they don't know their legal status, actually, they are not getting the opportunity to get a consulted from a lawyer. They are describing hearings in the court that continue for two minutes, saying to them you will stay in detention. You are not charged officially, but you will stay in detention. We don't know for how long.

That's the status. So that's why we are calling for the release. Najabas, we want to thank you for being with us, Director of the Prisoners Department of Physicians for Human Rights Israel. As President Trump celebrates the ceasefire hostage deal, major questions. remain over what happens next. We'll look at the Gaza summit and we hopefully will go to Gaza City where there's been internet loss. Stay with us. up with gasoline. Bid El Castro's brother spies

and rich lady is crying of a luxury's disappointment so he goes over and he's trying to sympathize with her. But he thinks that he should warn her that the climate emergency

is just around the corner yeah. Philly Brad performing waiting for the great leap forwards in our Democracy Now studio. This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org. I'm Amy Goodman with Juan Gonzalez. As President Trump celebrates the ceasefire hostage deal at the Gaza summit in Egypt yesterday, major questions remain over the deal and what happens next. We turn now to Khaled al-Gindy. He is visiting scholar at Georgetown University Center for Contemporary Arab Studies,

an advisor to the Palestinian leadership in Ramallah on permanent status negotiations with Israel from 2004 to 2009, author of Blindspot, America and the Palestinians from Malfour to Trump. Welcome to Democracy Now. Khalid, if you can start off by saying, what exactly was signed? We watched, you know, President Trump and the Egyptian president, Al-C, sign a document. What is in this plan at this point? well i think the plan uh is like what we saw announced uh last week it is very short on on details except in terms of uh you know this very initial phase that hostages have to be released within

72 hours uh followed by a Palestinian prisoners and hostages and of course the cessation of hostilities. Beyond that, the document is sort of big on generalities and, you know, vague statements about the need for peace and security and prosperity for Israelis and Palestinians. It doesn't say much, frankly. You know, the president likes to talk about this plan as in very grandiose terms, you know, ending a 3,000-year conflict which, of course, is completely false. But there's a lot of fluff, frankly, in terms of the substance of the plant itself.

And Haldi, Gindi, nearly 2,000 prisoners were released by Israel, but there was one who was not released. Israel absolutely refused the request of Hamas to release, Marwan Barguti, probably the most famous of all the Palestinian prisoners that Israel's held widely respected by all political groups. Why do you think that Israel was so insist on not releasing Bargutti? Well, I mean, they have consistently refused to release him, as you pointed out. I think the main reason is, you know, like any colonial power, Israel wants to keep the people that they subjugate, we can divide it. And of course, they are

now. There is a 17-year division between Hamas and Fentat, between Gaza and the West Bank, and that has really crippled and handicapped any kind of diplomatic effort or even in terms of Palestinian politics that have been paralyzed. So the last thing Israel wants is someone to emerge, who could unify Palestinians, inspire the national movement, possibly even renew the national movement in some way. And so right now, Marwan Baruti is the person who is most likely to do those things. And so they have to keep him from playing that role as, you know, emerging as a unifying leader.

Khalid Ogindi, you've said you're not concerned about Hamas trying to remain. in power, but that Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, and his leadership will try to insinuate itself in Gaza and monopolize the conversation. If you can explain, and also do you think part of why Netanyahu didn't attend the summit, though he was invited, was not to be seen with Mahmoud Abbas. Others said it was because the Turkish president, Erdogan, said he would turn his flight around and go back to Turkey if Netanyahu was there. Yeah, I mean, I think in terms of, sorry, the first part of your question was what's going to happen? What is in the deal around Hamas control of Gaza?

Yeah, I think what's important is for Palestinians as a collective to discuss the future of Gaza. And that includes everything from rebuilding, governance, security, you know, the connection with the West Bank. All of those things are not up to any one particular party, not up to Hamas and not up to Mahmoud Abbas to pursue on their own. And I think Hamas made that clear when they accepted the Trump plan, when they talked about things like disarming, or, you know, all of these other aspects, they couched it in the language of a Palestinian consensus. These are matters to be discussed internally. And I think that was wise. It's wise for Hamas because it gives them cover to be able to do those things. But it's also wise politically and I think necessary for Palestinians to rebuild their national movement. You cannot have.

Right now, Mahmoud Abbas is deeply, deeply unpopular. So importing his very unpopular leadership into Gaza is not going to be very effective. You need to have a broad Palestinian consensus that can move forward together. And so that was the thrust of that point that I was making about not letting Mahmoud Abbas or really anyone monopolize the process. As far as Netanyahu, yeah. I just wanted to ask you, there have been reports that have emerged since the ceasefire that there have been armed clashes between Hamas and other groups within Gaza. Could you, what do we know about this?

Of course, most Americans don't know that Hamas is not the only resistance force within Gaza. Right. it's not the only resistance force, it's also not the only armed force. There are armed elements, there are criminal elements, there are tribal elements that are not political, but are pursuing narrow self-interest. And there are agents of chaos. There are people who seek to exploit the power vacuum that existed in Gaza, and that still exists for the last two years, we saw, for example, there are many groups that loot aid

that was coming in. And some of, in many cases, those criminal elements were at least provided some cover by the Israeli military. And so what Hamas says it's doing now is first is establishing some kind of law and order in, you know, preventing chaos. and lawlessness, which is, you know, something that is very normal when there is a power vacuum and when there's enormous death and destruction and despair and trauma, there are people who emerge to, who want to take advantage of that. So on the one hand, it is to prevent chaos. There is, I think, an element also of settling scores, particularly with people who are seen as collaborators with Israel, you know, they're not necessarily being tried and, you know,

receiving due process, but there, you know, there is some kind of process that may not meet basic standards. But I think this is what, this is what Hamas is trying to do. I don't necessarily think that they are trying to hold on to power. I think they are trying to demonstrate that they are brokers and will be part of decision-making going forward, but not necessarily the sole governing authority, as they were before October 7th. Khalid al-Gindy, what about the fact that, I mean, Palestinians continue to be killed at least five yesterday by Israeli forces, apparently? What stops Israel from engaging in a full-scale assault, just moving back in, as happened before the last ceasefire? Yeah, I think there's nothing that stops them. I mean, you know, barring, of course, the president of the United States.

And we saw how that played out in March. The president gave Netanyahu basically a green light to, you know, to destroy that ceasefire after the first phase. That may or may not happen this time. We don't know. I mean, my sense is that President Trump seems to be much more serious about it this time for his own calculations. But, you know, this is typical of how Israel relates to. a ceasefire. We saw this in Lebanon, where even today, almost a year after a ceasefire between Israel and Hezbollah, Israel still acts more or less freely in Lebanon as it does in Syria and

other places, and it certainly will continue to do in Gaza. It will strike people wherever and whenever it feels it needs to. And the pattern has been, as long as it's not, you know, on a massive scale, that that will be tolerated. And so, but that can also be ratcheted up gradually, right? You can be five over the last few days, and then that number can increase. and there is this kind of, you know, drip effect that desensitizes the international community, which has already stopped paying attention to the issue at this point.

And so, but the plan doesn't have any restraints on Israel, doesn't, there's no timetable for Israel to withdraw. So it's really up to the discussion. A Palestinian statehood, Khalid? Sorry. Any discussion of Palestinian statehood? Well, there's a lot of discussion in the ceasefire hostage deal that was signed yesterday. There is a reference to, in aspirational terms, about a Palestinian state. But it is not, there are no steps toward a state.

We know that Israel completely rejects the idea of a Palestinian state. So it's not really on the table as part of this plan in the way, let's say, that previous peace plans, like the 2003 roadmap, had very concrete steps that needed to be taken in order to reach a Palestinian state. Now it's merely stated as a Palestinian aspiration, but is not something that is a serious, you know, seriously part of it. Very quickly, the Arab and Muslim countries, their role apparently Indonesia in rebuilding. Of course, there's Saudi Arabia. There's a meeting going. now in Sussex in England about rebuilding. What is the role of Arab and Muslim countries

also in a what has been talked about as an international stabilization force? Yeah, I mean, I think there is an expectation that Arab and Muslim countries are going to play a very large role in both of those. Financing the reconstruction of Gaza, particularly the Arab Gulf states, of course, because they have considered. resources and a direct stake in the stability of the region. And they're also being talked about as candidates, you know, to contribute forces in this international stabilization force. But we don't have clear commitments on either front.

I think we're much more likely to see movement on pledges and, you know, donor assistance to, you know, contributing to a reconstruction fund of some kind. I think it will be much harder to convince countries to commit troops, at least until there is more clarity on what the mission or mandate of this force is going to be under whose command, what sort of role are they going to play, what will be its relationship with the Israeli military, because the last thing that any of these countries want to do is to be seen as an occupying power or as doing the dirty work of the current occupying power, which of course is Israel. So those are things that are going to be worked out over the medium term, I think. Khalid al-Gindi, we want to thank you so much for being with us, visiting scholar at Georgetown University Center for Contemporary Arab Studies, served as an advisor to the Palestinian leadership in Ramallah for permanent status negotiations. He's the author of Blindspot, America and the

Palestinians from Balfour to Trump. We've been trying to reach the Al Jazeera course, on the ground in Gaza City, but have been unable to as the internet is down. So we're going to end today's show with Juan, where he is right now in Chicago. On Saturday, the Chicago Teachers Union organized a protest of funds, not feds, outside the Chicago headquarters of Google. They're demanding an end to ice raids and calling for federal funds to be redirected to schools, health care, food assistance, and violence prevention. This is Chicago older person, Anthony Joel Cassada.

We're also here because we know what we're up against. Donald Trump and his fascist authoritarian administration are advancing an agenda built on fear and division. They are stripping away health care, food access, and housing from those who already struggle the most, like our elders and our working families. They are terrorizing our communities and kidnapping. our neighbors. And while they take from the many, they reward the few. So Juan, Juan Gonzalez, they're in Chicago, leading reporter, as usual, reporter extraordinaire. Talk about the latest in Chicago right now.

Well, Amy, the amazing thing that's happened over the last several weeks is this grassroots movement that has developed all around the city to protect immigrants from ICE raids, just late last week in the mostly Latino neighborhood of Belmont-Kragan. There was a meeting called for community members to join a rapid response group. They were supposed to meet at a Mexican restaurant. Over 200 people showed up. So many people that they couldn't actually hold the meeting because people couldn't fit in to the restaurant to sit down and get their instructions.

So they basically had to give out the literature. There have been meetings all around the city at college campus. and in neighborhoods to build this self-defense group at the same time that the political leaders are constantly on top of the issue from the governor to the mayor to the local elected officials

and older persons and the mayor of course issued an executive order not permitting any city-owned property to be used by ICE so there is from the ground level up to the highest levels of political office in Illinois

a tremendous this response and resistance to the Trump raids and to the threats of trying to bring in the military to Chicago. Well, that does it for our show today, Juan. Thanks so much for that report. We end today's show by wishing Miguel Negara a happy birthday and also a happy fifth birthday to my beloved Zazu Goodpup. She came to us in Nor'Ester in 2020.

I wish her brother, her beloved brother, Kasha, a happy birthday as well. And thanks so much for joining us. I'll be speaking at the Lensick Theater in Santa Fe on October 17th on Friday night, as they show the new film on Democracy Now called Steel, story, please. And then on Saturday and Sunday in Woodstock and Sogerties, check our website at DemocracyNow.org. I'm Amy Goodman with Juan Gonzalez. Thanks for joining us.