Democracy Now! Audio - Democracy Now! 2025-10-17 Friday

Episode Date: October 17, 2025

Democracy Now! Friday, October 17, 2025

From New York and Santa Fe, New Mexico, this is Democracy Now. We're staying. No matter what they destroy, we're staying, staying, staying, staying. my son, you can't get a tent. This was all my house. This is my life. My children used to stay here, but we're unable to bring anyone here because there are no tents. There's nothing to shelter us. Gaza are facing critical shortages of water, food and tents as Israel continues to limit the amount of humanitarian aid entering Gaza, despite the week-long ceasefire. We'll go to the occupied West Bank to speak with longtime Israeli reporter Amira Haas. Then to Venezuela, as President Trump authorizes the CIA to carry out covert lethal operations inside Venezuela,

the head of U.S. Southern Command is stepping down reportedly over concerns about a U.S. military bombing campaign targeting votes in the Caribbean. We'll speak to Georgetown law professor, David Cole, who's likened the attacks on alleged drug traffickers to premeditated murder. Then to no kings on Saturday, millions are expected to take to the streets for what could be one of the largest protests ever. in the United States. Honestly, what drew me to know Kings was the fear of what happens if we don't stand up. I think we're watching a slide into authoritarianism. And I think that if we don't come together in massive numbers, if we don't make it fun and if we don't make it enticing to be a part of the resistance,

I really fear what this administration will do next. All that and more coming up. Welcome to Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org, the War and Peace Report. I'm Narmine Sheikh. Palestinians in Gaza are trying to identify the bodies of their relatives who were released by Israel. Many of the bodies showed signs of torture and summary execution, with gunshots to the head and marks from blindfolds and handcuffs. Here's Gada Mosbe, whose husband is still missing.

The Red Cross has brought bodies, 90 bodies, and we have come to. see if my husband is with them or not. The appearance of the martyrs. We do not know who they are, because they are disfigured and the Israelis have tortured them. We don't know anything about them. Their appearance. We don't know where my husband is. It is not known. Israeli officials say they're extending the detention of Dr. Husam Abu Safia by six months. The pediatrician was kidnapped during a raid on Kamal-Adwan Hospital last December. Meanwhile, Hamas returned the remains of two more dead Israeli hostages, but reiterated that it will need specialized equipment to locate bodies still buried beneath the rubble.

The UN estimates that 55 million tons of debris must be cleared before Gaza reconstruction efforts can begin. This week, Israel's defense minister, Israel Katz, called on the military to prepare a comprehensive plan to defeat Hamas should the Gaza ceasefire collapse. In Washington, President Trump repeated his threats against Hamas. They brought back bodies today, as you probably know, but they also. So said they're going to behave? We're going to find out if they behave. If they behave good, if they don't behave, we'll take care of it.

In New Jersey, protesters led by Jewish Voice for Peace on Thursday occupied the lobby of a Newark high-rise that's home to an office of Democratic Senator Cory Booker. Protesters wore shirts reading, stop-arming Israel, and carried messages, including Booker Let Gaza Live and Booker Stop Funding Genocide. They cited Senator Booker's votes to send 20. billion dollars to support Israel's assault on Gaza last year and to eliminate funding to the UN Relief Agency for Palestinian refugees. Booker also voted against Bernie Sanders' joint resolutions of disapproval to block U.S. arms transfers to Israel. President Trump's former

National Security Advisor John Bolton was indicted by a grand jury on Thursday on charges that he mishandled classified documents. Bolton is a prominent critic of President Trump and had published a book about his tumultuous time in the White House during the first Trump administration. In a statement, Bolton said, quote, now I have become the latest target in weaponizing the Justice Department to charge those he deems to be his enemies with charges that were declined before or distort the facts. This comes as President Trump's Justice Department has secured indictments against former FBI Director James Comey and New York Attorney General Letitia James in recent weeks.

The U.S. launched another strike on a boat allegedly carrying drugs in the Caribbean on Thursday. A U.S. official tells Reuters it's the first time there are survivors of the attack. Since September, the U.S. has reportedly killed 27 people in attacks against suspected drug boats off the coast of Venezuela. This comes as Venezuela has requested the U.N. Security Council to declare that the U.S. strikes are illegal, calling on the body to back Venezuela's sovereignty. Here is Venezuelan ambassador to the United Nations, Samuel Moncada. What do we ask of the Security Council? First, that it investigates a series of murders that the government of the United States of America

has been perpetrating in our region and determines their illegal nature. Second, to confirm the threat that these illicit actions posed to the preservation of peace in Latin America and the Caribbean. Meanwhile, the U.S. Admiral who commands military forces in Latin America, Alvin Holsey, will step down from his post at the end of this year.

Defense Secretary Pete Hegeseth made the announcement on social media. It comes less than a year after Holsey took over the position, which normally lasts for three years. The New York Times reports a U.S. official, said Holsey, quote, had raised concerns about the mission and the attacks on the alleged drugboats. This comes as a former U.S. Marine Corps colonel, Doug Krugman, published an op-ed in the Washington Post on Thursday titled I resigned from the military because of Trump. After serving for 24 years, he wrote, quote, I gave up my career out of concern for our country's future.

Meanwhile, a network of more than 340 former officers of the CIA, the NSA, the State Department, and other national security agencies published a report detailing that the U.S. is, quote, on a trajectory toward authoritarian rule. The group calling itself the steady state, said in a statement, quote, we wrote the report because the same tools we once used to assess foreign risks now show unmistakable warning signs at home. Ukrainian President Volodymyra Zelensky is meeting President Trump at the White House today,

where he's expected to make his case for supplies of U.S. long-range missiles. Trump has hinted he may supply Ukraine with ground-launch Tomahawk cruise missiles. Kremlin officials have repeatedly warned against providing the weapons, which can be used to carry nuclear warheads and were banned until 2019 when Russia and the first Trump administration withdrew from the intermediate range nuclear forces treaty. On Thursday, Trump said after a lengthy phone call with Russian President Vladimir Putin that the pair would discuss the war in Ukraine at an upcoming meeting in Budapest, Hungary. Trump described the phone call as very productive. Before winning the 2024 election, Trump repeatedly pledged from the campaign trail he'd end the war

in Ukraine on the first day. In Chicago, a federal judge ruled Thursday. Immigration agents will be required to wear body cameras as she called on a senior official to testify in court to discuss an operation that's led to a thousand arrests. U.S. District Judge Sarah Ellis said she was startled after seeing video of ICE agents tear-gassing protesters, saying, quote, I live in Chicago if folks haven't noticed,

and I'm not blind, right? A ProPublica report finds that more than 170 U.S. citizens have been detained by ICE agents at raids and protests across the country. More than 20 citizens were held in detention without being able to contact their loved ones or a lawyer. Ice agents also arrested 130 citizens, including a dozen elected officials, for allegedly interfering with or assaulting officers. Those cases were dropped. A federal judge has lifted travel restrictions for Mahmoud Khalil, ruling the Palestinian activist and green cardholder, is free to attend speaking engagements around the U.S. as he fights the Trump administration's attempts to deport him.

The Columbia University graduate was the first pro-Palestinian campus protester to be jailed by the Trump administration over his advocacy work. During a court hearing Thursday, Khalil's lawyer, Alina Das said, quote, he wants to travel for the very significant First Amendment reasons that are at the bottom of this case. The federal government shutdown has entered its 17th day. On Thursday, the Senate failed to advance a Republican-sponsored stopgap funding bill for the 10th time, as Democrats continue to demand Republicans rescind deep cuts to Medicaid and restore tax credits that have made health insurance more affordable for millions of people. The Senate also failed to advance a Defense Department appropriations bill to fully fund the U.S. military for a year.

Meanwhile, the Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program, known as SNAP, has begun denying new applications in some places with some 40 million low-income people at risk of losing benefits if the shutdown drags into November. The Trump administration is preparing to install allies of President Trump at the IRS to pursue criminal inquiries of left-leaning groups and major Democratic donors. That's according to the Wall Street Journal, which reports the move would allow Trump's allies, to exert greater control at the IRS's Criminal Investigative Division and weaken the involvement of IRS lawyers in criminal probes. The changes are reportedly being spearheaded by Gary Shapley, an advisor to Treasury Secretary Scott Besant. Shapley is said to be putting together a list of targets for the IRS to pursue,

including billionaire Democratic donor George Soros and his affiliated groups. Organizers of nationwide anti-authoritarian protests say their experience, millions of people to join at least 2,500 valleys across all 50 states and several U.S. territories on Saturday. They say this weekend's No King's protests should far surpass the 5 million protesters who turned out for No Kings Day events in June. Ahead of the protest, Texas Governor Greg Abbott said he's calling up the Texas National Guard. Meanwhile, House Speaker Mike Johnson condemned the protests using talking points repeatedly by Republicans and far-rights. pundits. I encourage you to watch.

We call it the hate America rally that will happen Saturday. Let's see who shows up for that. I bet you see pro-Hamas supporters. I bet you see Antifa types. I bet you see the Marxist in full display. Here in New York, organizers expect Saturday's protest to rival June's No King's events when an estimated 175,000 people marched. Honestly, what drew me to No Kings was the fear of what happens if we don't stand up.

I think we're watching a slide into authoritarianism, and I think that if we don't come together in massive numbers, if we don't make it fun and if we don't make it enticing to be a part of the resistance, I really fear what this administration will do next. And New York City's mayoral candidates faced off Thursday evening in their first debate ahead of the November 4th election. Here's New York Assembly member Zharan Mamdani going off to former New York Governor Andrew Cuomo. What New Yorkers need is a mayor who can stand. up to Donald Trump and actually deliver on that safety.

When Donald Trump sent ICE agents on people in Los Angeles, Andrew Cuomo said that New Yorkers need not overreact. That is the furthest answer that New Yorkers are looking for. They are looking for someone who will lead, someone who will say that they will have their back, someone who will actually fight for the people of this city. And that's who I am, because I'm not funded by the same donors that gave us Donald Trump's second term,

which isn't something that Andrew Cuomo can say. And those are some of the headlines. This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now, Democracy. Now.org, The War and Peace Report. I'm Nermaine Sheikh in New York, joined by Amy Goodman in Santa Fe, New Mexico. Hi, Amy. Hi, Nermaine. And hello to everyone in this country and around the world. We're broadcasting today from the Roundhouse. That's the New Mexico legislature in Santa Fe. We begin today's show, looking at Gaza. President Trump has issued new threats against Hamas, saying Thursday the United States would back a military intervention against the group if it fails to uphold the ceasefire deal.

Trump spoke from the Oval Office. We have a commitment from them, and I assume they're going to honor their commitment. I hope they do. We're going to find out if they behave. If they behave good, if they don't behave, we'll take care of it. I didn't say who would go in, but somebody will go in. It's not going to be a... We won't have to.

There are people very close, very nearby that will go in. They'll do the trick very easily. But under our auspices. Earlier Thursday, Trump wrote on Truth's social, quote, If Hamas continues to kill people in Gaza, which was not the deal, we'll have no choice but to go in and kill them. Thank you for your attention to this matter. Trump's tone shifted from earlier this week.

When he said Hamas had taken out, quote, a couple of gangs that were very bad. that didn't bother me much, Trump said. Trump's comments came amidst reports of recent clashes between Hamas and armed gangs accused of looting humanitarian aid and working for Israel. Al Jazeera reported Israeli officials in June admitted to arming gangs in Gaza, some with ties to the Islamic State in an effort to destabilize Hamas. Some of these groups were linked to the killing of the Palestinian journalist Salah al-Jafarawi

on Sunday after the U.S.-backed Gaza deal went into effect. Trump has made no mention of repeated Israeli attacks this week that killed several Palestinians, including in Gaza City. On Thursday, Hamas returned the remains of two more Israeli hostages, but the group said it needs specialized equipment presently banned from entry into Gaza by Israel that would help retrieve the remaining deceased captives trapped beneath the rubble. The UN estimates some 55 million tons of debris must be cleared before reconstruction efforts in Gaza can begin. Meanwhile, families in Gaza are still facing hunger and severe shortages of water, medicines,

and other vital necessities. As Israel continues to delay the reopening of the Rafah border crossing between Egypt and the Gaza Strip, many Palestinians in need of urgent medical care also remain in limbo. For more, we're joined by long-time Israeli journalist Amira Haas, Saharet's correspondent for the occupied Palestinian territories based in Ramallah. She was born in Jerusalem and is the daughter of Holocaust survivors.

She's the only Israeli Jewish journalist to have spent 30 years living in and reporting from Gaza and the West Bank. Her books include Drinking the Sea at Gaza, days and nights in a land under siege. Her latest piece for Harets is headlined, will Israelis one day say of their country's atrocities in Gaza, I was always against it.

Welcome back to Democracy Now, Amira. If you could just begin by, first of all, responding to the ceasefire that is, at least in part, holding and what you think the prospects are of its success. Hello. The ceasefire is at least relieves people of this fear, permanent fear of bombings and bombardments and shellings. At least they can go out and look for food and look for water. At least some of the prices of the food has lowered.

Yeah, all these little things that are very big for Palestinians are there. but there is the fear all the time that the war will be renewed and for different for different pretexts but it's important to say when when Trump says that he will fight against Hamas he will not fight against Hamas if a new war if the war is restarting it's against the people it's not against Hamas because Hamas is an organization and Hamas aren't people we see they they remain

they are there. But the people are being attacked, the children and the women and the young men and the old men and women are being attacked. So people from what I know, when I talk with my friends and I cannot go there to Gaza, of course, like all journalists,

independent journalists. What I know from them is that they live on this relief, between the relief from the end of bombardments and the fear and the grief and the terrible grief and the difficulties of living in the rubble, not finding their homes, as we heard before the people. This is all what we know, all what I know and read and see. I know it's much more, much more, much more painful, much more difficult than we, than any of us can imagine. Amira, we saw the images of the Israeli hostages returning to their families. And then we also saw the Palestinian prisoners, hostages, captives, however you want to call them,

because let's remember the thousand, well over a thousand prisoners who, were sent back to Gaza, did not have charges against them. But there was also hundreds who were leased in buses, is this right, in Ramallah or outside Ramallah, where you are in the occupied West Bank. It was this kind of parade of skeletons. I mean, they were emaciated as they came out of the buses, a little obscured by large, heavy gray. sweatshirts that the Israeli prison, I guess, had given them. But can you talk about who these men are? Some of them were arrested. Some of them are long-time prisoners who were released. We know that some of the long-time those who were detained, those who were sentenced for

life were released, but ex-exiled to Egypt. those who came to Ramallah and I must admit that I haven't yet followed up on everything because there are so many details to follow on some of them I think were many of them were

administrative detainees I know one of them for example who really who has been for years in administrative detention which means not trial he was just the order to his detention was renewed every six months

over and over again. And I think just because he is this charismatic social leader who could have had the positive influence on his society, and that's why he was detained. And others for different pretexts or unknown reasons were detained. Some others were detained during the last two years for all kinds of reasons. And really these two last years, it's like the prison, Israeli prisons became the

how could they call it Israeli sadism in a nutshell the way that prisoners were treated during these two years is unprecedented in Israel and indeed as you say they didn't come only people didn't come only emaciated they came out

ill sick some of them have lost their their limbs. It's undescribable, the conditions, the terrible conditions, which were they put in. At the beginning

it was the pretext that so is the lot of the Israeli hostages in Gaza. But now that they are released, will they change, will they improve the conditions in prisons? This is, it is not seem

to be to happen. I wanted to go to a Palestinian mother of five who's returned to the ruins of her destroyed home in northern Gaza. We were displaced and we came back to our home. Even when I came back home, I came walking from the south to here, me and my husband, to come to my home here. Even if it's destroyed, I will live over it, because this is our life. You can see how we're living. We can't find rest. Even now, we can't find rest or stability or anything. I'm staying here.

There's no water, no life, but I'm staying on the rubble of my home. I'm living over my home, and I will not leave my home, even if it's the last day of my life. So, Amir Haas, if you can talk about how Israelis are witnessing, perceiving what is taking place in Gaza. Your most recent piece will Israelis one day say of their countries' atrocities in Gaza, I was always against it. Elaborate. Lay out what your main thesis is. But first I would like to comment on what the woman said.

I could not see her. Many people want to leave. This is something that everybody who supports the use of arms in the struggle and portrays that these two years as heroic has to bear in mind that many people want also to live because they are too tired to restart their life and restart their life from within the rubble. So this is something that has to be taken into account

and especially for audience of democracy now. Now, as for Israelis, I must say that I'm I wrote, I think about 15 years ago, 10 years ago, I don't remember, a similar op-ed, but it was optimistic, because it said one day children will ask their parents, how could you? Today, this article actually says hints, not directly, but it hints that children will not ask their parents, how could you? And parents will not lament for what they have done. And people will not say that they were against because people can deny. People can live in denial for many years and live well without acknowledging. This is my fear.

And so, Amira, I'd like you to comment on, I mean, first of all, the title of your article is reminiscent of another guest that we've had on our show, his book. One day, everyone will have always been against this. Umar al-Aqad. But, you know, international, the former director of the international crisis groups, Arab-Israeli conflict project, Nathan Thrull, who's also been a guest on the show, he told the New Yorker that what's really changed since October 7th in Israel is that, quote, ethnic cleansing has become a part of mainstream public discourse. He cited a recent poll, which found that 82% of Israeli Jews still fail. expelling Gazans, if you could comment on that and whether you agree and principally with

ethnic cleansing having become part of public discourse in Israel? Mass expulsion or tiny expulsions, as we see every day happening in the West Bank, people are being expensed from their land, from their trees, from their fields by by gangs of settlers sent and supported by the state. This is happening every day and is known and is public. And you don't see it, you don't, you don't feel an uproar against it. You don't see that the, the Israeli agencies of law and order are coming up, of course not there, on the country.

So they are all kind of expulsion. I'm not always happy with the word ethnic cleansing for many reasons, but mass expulsion as the Israelis, I think it has always, it has been there for years. I'm not sure. I think that now when it's over, when they saw that they can actually fail, those who called for the mass expulsion of Palestinians from Gaza,

actually now this is the main defeat, so-called defeat, because Gaza is disres. destroyed, but still they could not realize their vision for mass expulsion and resettlement. I think with time, you know, the Israelis might say, okay, let's move to another thing. But they do not support, they do not acknowledge that the issue is about Israeli domination over the Palestinians. The root of the problem is our decades long deprivation of Palestinians from their rights, from life, from freedom, from freedom of movement, from freedom to have to use their sources of water, all these things. So this is the root of the problem.

And here I don't see a change. Even if the number drops to 50% who support or 30%, the root problem remains that the Israelis do not acknowledge, do not acknowledge that there is no. symmetry here, that we are not talking about France and Germany in the First World War. We are talking about an occupier and an occupier who has become more and more ruthless over the years and an occupied people fighting for and thriving for freedom. And this is not, unfortunately, I don't see this changing. Maria, finally, you know, we're speaking to you in the occupied West Bank, where Settler violence has been continuing and has actually accelerated since October 7th.

So if you could talk about, you know, what's happening on the ground there and the fact that Trump's 20-point plan makes no mention of the West Bank at all. Yeah, this is one of the mistakes when we always talk about Gaza, because we talk about Gaza as if it were an isolated island, not connected to the world, not connected to Palestinians, not connected to the West Bank according to Palestinian plans for statehood, not connected to the historical Palestine. This is one of the issues.

And of course, of course, the settlers kind of compensate themselves now for not having succeeded, fully succeeded in Gaza, by really enhancing their attacks in the West Bank. All over, you cannot even follow all the incidents of direct attacks against people. Now it's the season of the olives, and people go to pick up their olives. And settlers come with their dogs or vans or, I don't know, in arms and harass people, don't allow them to reach their land, hit them, burn cars. cars, still the

olives, cut the trees. And this happens not on a daily basis. I'm sure that while we are talking, there are such attacks happening in different places in the West Bank. And with the help of the soldiers, or with their

keeping a closed eye to it. And of course, no chance of bringing the police to intervene. on the country. I'm sure that on this moment, in five minutes or in ten minutes, I'll get reports about such attacks. But these attacks are a text that fit into the plan of the state. These are missionaries of the state. These are not hooligans or gangs that became powerful

from God. They are part of a system and part of a plan. And true, that they are, they complained that 20 years ago, 15 years ago, the authorities didn't do it quick enough, I mean, to get, to get control of most of the land of the West Bank. So now they are doing it with their direct violence and direct intimidation and terrorizing so many people. and unfortunately all the neither the the Palestinian police and

security agencies nor the Palestinian groups that call themselves resistant groups come to the aid of the people who are being directly

attacked by Israeli settlers not with arms but with just with a mess of with a massive presence, this could have changed or this could have helped the farmers and the shepherds and maybe give a sign to the signal that they don't accept it, that these people are not, should not be alone with some international Israeli people who are activists who are with them.

So we see a phenomenon that thousands of, thousands of shepherds and farmers are actually exposed alone to the messy violence of ruthless and very, very haughty and arrogant settlers. I heard in one of those clips lately last clips that are circulating on social media, one of them says, to an old woman, he says to her, one of those young settlers, and many of them are young, very young, says, you are only a guest here, you are temporarily here, you should leave, you should leave. This is the worldview that this violence carries with it, and there is nobody really serious in Israel in what is called the opposition who stands up against them. It's only, you know, the usual suspects who go and try of the Israeli left wing who try to be with them and Palestinian activists not enough

and some internationals who are allowed to be here. Amirah Haas, we're going to leave it there, long time Israeli journalist. Amirah Haaret's correspondent for the occupied Palestinian territories based in Ramallah. Up next, President Trump has always. authorize the CIA to carry out covert lethal operations inside Venezuela, and the head of U.S. Southern Command is stepping down, reportedly over concerns about the U.S. military bombing campaign targeting boats in the Caribbean. We'll speak to Georgetown law professor David Cole, who's likened the attacks on alleged drug traffickers to premeditated murder. Back in a minute.

hungry there's a wind it's hard and biting there's a song you need a sing there's a fuse you need a lighting and it's no secret the day is coming and it's a day I hope to see but if they ask if they ask you brother who told you that you didn't hear it from me Let Freedom Ring

performed by Tom Morello for Democracy Now This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org, the born peace report. I'm Narmine Sheikh with Amy Goodman in Santa Fe. The Washington Post is reporting U.S. Special Operations Helicopters and B-52 strategic bombers have been spotted flying less than 90 miles off the coast of Venezuela. Meanwhile, President Trump's authorized the CIA to carry out lethal covert operations inside Venezuela. The U.S. is also continuing to strike what they say are a suspect.

drug boats in the Caribbean, despite growing questions over the legality of the strikes. Running development, the U.S. Admiral who commands military forces in Latin America, Alvin Holsey, is stepping down early from his post as head of U.S. Southern Command, reportedly because he had concerns about the U.S. attacking boats in the Caribbean. Holesy is the first African-American commander of Southcom. Earlier this week, President Trump was questioned by a reporter about U.S. military operations in the IBM. Mr. President, on Venezuelan's votes, I want to ask you, why not have the Coast Guard

stop them, which is empowered by law to do? You know, this way you can confirm who's on the boat and ensure that they're doing what they suspect. Because we've been doing that for 30 years, and it has been totally ineffective. They have faster boats. Some of these boats are seriously, I mean, they're world-class speed boats, but they're not faster than missiles. but we've been trying to do that for years

and so much of the drugs 25, 30% would come in through the seas. What's the next step in this war on cartels and are you considering options, are you considering strikes on land? Well, I don't want to tell you exactly, but we are certainly looking at land now because we've got the sea very well under control.

We're joined now by David Cole, professor in law and public policy at the Georgetown University Law Center. He's the former National Legal Director at the ACLU. His new piece in the New York Review of Books about Trump's bombing of boats in the Caribbean is titled Getting Away with Murder. Welcome back to the program, David Cole. If you could just start out by responding to these attacks and lay out your argument in the New York Review

of Books piece, Getting Away with Murder. Sure. You know, we have the power and the authority to make drug smuggling a crime. We have the power and the authority to interdict boats that are bringing drugs into this country. We have the power and the authority to try people. If they're convicted by a jury, they can then be sentenced to a period of time in prison. What we do not have authority to do, what we do not have any legal authority to do, is to just execute people from the skies without any evidence, without any trial, without any showing that they pose some sort of imminent danger to

anybody. And yet that's what President Trump is doing. He's taken a metaphor, the war on drugs, and mistook it for an actual war and is now engaged in premeditated execution of civilians. We're not at war. No one even heard of this organization. in Venezuela, Tren de Aragua, until President Trump declared that they were somehow attacking us and justifying his use of military force. So we're not at war. And even if we were at war, people on these boats are civilians. They are not attacking us.

And under the international rules that govern armed conflict, you cannot target civilians unless they are actually engaged in hostility. against you, unless they're actually shooting against you. That is not what's going on here. These are sitting ducks, and we are simply engaged in cold-blooded murder of individuals who may or may not be drug smugglers. So, David Cole, you have actually Republicans as well who are condemning this, like Kentucky Republican Senator Rand Paul. And I want to ask, what if the situation were reversed? right? What if a foreign country was targeting U.S. ships saying without giving evidence that these were drug smuggling ships and saying that their intelligence operations are now operating covertly in the United States? And there is, you know, and at least at this point, what, some 27 people have been killed.

what do you feel the U.S., those in the United States can do to enforce the law? This is about the rule of law. It looks like Trump is imminently going to attack Venezuela. I don't know if this is diverted tension from the possibility of the release of the Epstein files, but he has so up the ante here. No, absolutely. And, you know, there is a problem of drug smuggling across the Canadian border from the United States to Canada. But does that give Canada the right to start executing Americans who it believes might be engaged in smuggling drugs?

Absolutely not. And if Canada did that to Americans, we would be up in arms. We would be essentially treating that as an act of war and an unprovoked act. of war. So this is, under domestic law, it's murder. Under international law, it's a war crime. So, you know, it's great that Rand Paul is standing up against it, but we should all be standing up against it. The notion that the President of the United States can order premeditated murder of individuals who do not pose any sort of threat, who are not shooting at us, are not attacking us is completely outrageous. And, you know, what troubles me is that by and large,

it has barely caused a ripple. I mean, a lot of things that Trump has done are deeply disturbing, weaponizing the Justice Department, pardoning the folks who were involved in January 6th, cutting off aid to all kinds of needy people around the world and here at home. Those are, Those are outrageous, but there's a difference when you start killing human beings without any process whatsoever. You know, we have a death penalty in this country, but the death penalty can only be imposed, first of all, after a long and rigorous procedure to make sure that you haven't gotten the wrong person.

And secondly, it can only be imposed where the defendant is convicted of me. murder. These individuals who have now been sent to the bottom of the sea by this president, if they were tried, at most would face a sentence of some period of years. There would be no death penalty authorized under the Constitution for these individuals, even assuming they're guilty. And yet President Trump is just taking the law into his own hands, turning a metaphor into an actual war, and now suggesting that he's going to authorize the CIA to use lethal force within Venezuela. It really just a completely outrageous action, and it's very disturbing to me that there's not more outrage within the Senate, within the House, and within the

American people. Well, David Cole, another issue, of course, that people have commented on extensively, is that, first of all, Venezuela is neither the main producer nor exporter of drugs to the U.S., which has raised speculation about the motives of Trump targeting Venezuela rather than the countries who are either the biggest producers or exporters. What do you think explains that? Yeah, no question. This is a political action by the president against Maduro. against a weak country that he can, he feels that he has the, you know, he's a bully. He's a bully at

home. He's a bully overseas. He feels that he can do this without a significant pushback from Venezuela. And so he's doing it. It is not about stopping drugs from coming into this country. Drugs continue to come into this country across the border every day in much larger amounts than come on speedboats from Venezuela. This is about his, flexing muscle, acting the bully that he is. But again, it is also about him committing homicide. There is a federal felony statute that makes it a crime to engage in homicide on the high seas. And that is what is happening. The other thing I'll say about it is it's deeply concerning that the military is going along. You know, if this recent commander of Southcom

step down because of concerns, that's good. But what about all the other military people who are engaged in this action which violates the most basic principles of the laws of war, which they are trained in and which they are obligated not to follow orders when they're ordered to do something that is blatantly illegal? David, Cole, two quick final questions. One, isn't the former Philippine president? Duterte, before the International Court on trial for doing exactly the same thing,

murdering alleged drug traffickers. Yeah, and President Trump has immunity from criminal prosecution in the United States because the Supreme Court gave it to him. He does not have immunity from international prosecution, and nor do those individuals who have participated in these murders. They can be tried in international tribunals, and they should be. And finally, you have Pam Bondi, the chief enforcer of the law in this country, the U.S. Attorney General. As we move into a segment now on No Kings Day, comparing how the U.S. is dealing with these so-called alleged drug traffickers, who they haven't presented,

presented evidence of before they kill, to Antifa and saying that they are going to deal with Antifa in exactly the same way. I mean, this is a key point that they are going to take out Antifa as they're bombing these boats and killing people. Your final comment as a constitutional lawyer on what this means, especially as we move into what could be the largest protest across the country in U.S. history. Well, I think this is an opening wedge, right? You start by targeting the vulnerable. You start by acting overseas. You start by going after immigrants. And then you turn it on your own people. And we've already seen him turning the military on his own people in Los Angeles.

in Washington, D.C., in Chicago, in Portland, he is turning the military on his own people. And the rationale that he offers for being permitted to kill people without any trial, without any process on allegations does not stop at the borders. When you have the Attorney General suggesting that similar tactics are going to be used against our own people, that demonstrates the slippery slope that we are on. And I think, you know, the most important thing we can do in stopping that slippery slope is go out on No King's Day, is show this president that we don't want a president who kills illegally in our name.

Well, thanks so much, David Cole, and we're going to go to the No King's protest after the break. David Cole, Professor in Law and Public Policy at Georgetown University Law Center and the former ACLU National Legal Director. We'll link to your new piece in the New York Review of Books Getting Away with Murder. Next, we get an update on plans for the No King's protests

planned nationwide Saturday. Millions are expected to take to the streets for what could be one of the largest protests ever in the United States. Back in 20 seconds. It's the voice that he's growing inside.

you and me it's the new way you draw on the day you are free it's the fire that is burning inside you and me it's the soul that is born on the dawn you are free Massive Will, Tunisian American M.L. Malthusie, performing in our Democracy Now studio. Watch her full performance and interview at DemocracyNow.org. This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org, the War and Peace Report. I'm Nermine Sheikh with Amy Goodman in Santa Fe. This is Democracy Now. That's right. And we're going to end right now. Even as President Trump has cracked down on dissent and sent troops into multiple cities, organizers of Saturdays no kings protests expect millions to join at least 2,500 rallies across all 50 states and several U.S. territories. It could certainly go throughout the world. Turnout expected to surpass the 5 million protesters who turned out for no Kings Day events in June.

For more, we're joined by two guests. Tick Cho Lopez is older person of the city's 25th ward. It includes immigrant neighborhoods such as Pilsen, where federal agents have conducted violent raids and arrests. And in Washington, D.C., Leah Greenberg is co-founder and co-executive director of Indivisible, the grassroots movement, which part of the No King's Coalition helping to organize Saturday's protests. Welcome back to both of you. Leah, if we could begin with you, just talk about the scale of the protests across the country and what you're expecting. Well, we're expecting about 2,600 protests all across the country in every state and about 18 other countries as well. And we're expecting millions and millions of people to show up.

And we are expecting to have a joyful and defiant day that stands as a rebuke to this administration. corruption, it's authoritarianism, and its attacks on our neighbors and our rights. You know, Leah, I was on the plane to Albuquerque, and as people were getting off, they were telling me about the mass protests planned for Albuquerque. They expect somewhat 100,000 people, people coming in from small towns and cities after having their protests and their towns. There's going to be one here in Santa Fe as well. Apparently, the Trump administration, And President Trump himself and those in the White House are deeply concerned about this and that you have these threats comparing people here to Hamas sympathizers and Antifa. And we've heard what Pam Bondi said, how she's going to deal with Antifa.

What is your response? Our response is that we are engaging in the most American activity in the world, which is coming together in peaceful protest of our government. This is a classic exercise of our First Amendment rights. and it is a classic exercise of the authoritarian playbook to try to create fear, to try to threaten, to try to make people back off preemptively. And we're not going to do that. We won't be bowed. We won't be cowed.

We won't stop. We will continue to exercise our rights peacefully and joyfully and all over the country because the backlash to Donald Trump is everywhere. So I'd like to bring in Byron Sikcho Lopez. If you could talk about what you're expecting to happen in Chicago, First, I'd like to turn to a clip. This is Texas Republican Senator Ted Cruz, who made similar unfounded claims on Fox News about the No King's protests.

What I've been urging is follow the money, cut off the money. And you look at this No King's rally, and there's considerable evidence that George Soros and his network is behind funding these rallies, which may well be riots all across the country. And Soros is writing the check. And so I've introduced legislation called the Stop Funders Act that would add rioting to the list of predicate offenses for RICO. And now let's go to Republican House Speaker Mike Johnson speaking on Fox News. I encourage you to watch.

We call it the Hate America Rally that will happen Saturday. Let's see who shows up for that. I bet you see pro-Hamas supporters. I bet you see Antifa types. I bet you see the Marxist in full display. So Byron Stichael Lopez. if you could respond to these comments. Well, is anything that comes from the Republican Party is nothing by a distraction.

They should be focused on the EPSN files. But one of the things that tell you here in Chicago, what we see is working people coming together. We have never seen this level of unity in our city as we see the shameful, disgusting attack on our city or constitutional rights being violated on a regular basis. the defiance of federal judges, rulings, and intimidation of judges. So we will not be intimidated. We are not going to be intimidated by no kings, no

want to be dictators, or city has been victim of a treasurer's attack. They're turning the military and working people. So how they're shooting innocent people. They're lying to the public. They murdered one of our neighbors. They're conducting a shameful raid. They have kids and

sea blocks and parents that are in the middle of the street. So Chicago is not taking this. We've been organizing about knowing our rights, a massive campaign that was successful. Now we've got to protect our rights. So the Republican Party is a party that is a spilling propaganda. They're calling anybody who disagrees with them at terrorists. They want to crush dissent. That's what authoritarian regimes do. And here in Chicago, they're going to find a massive demonstration, more unity, working people fighting the billionaire agenda. I mean, what's happening in Chicago, you have this judge's angry ruling yesterday, saying that ICE is defying what she said as they attack protesters.

You even have Byron Siegcio-Lopez this week, ICE arresting and detaining a police officer in the Chicago suburb of Hanover Park. So how are you organizing these protests tomorrow? And are you concerned about the violent approach that ICE is taking that they'll attack the protests? Well, certainly we have seen an unhinged, unaccountable military force. One judge already in Portland, Oregon said clearly, and we agree. They've been using the military as the personal militia of the wannabe dictator. They are using excessive force. Not only they arrested a police officer just two days ago, they went to another.

neighborhood after they attacked one of our neighborhoods on the neighborhoods on the sidewalk side and they shot a woman that posed not threat to them. They also, just a few days ago, arrested three people, two of them, U.S. citizens. One of them was a 15-year-old black youth that they disappeared for five hours. They are unhinged, and the best way that we can do to protect our communities is mobilizing, mobilizing our communities in every corner of the city and certainly mobilizing on No King's Day to demonstrate. the unity of working people, we will defeat the Trump administration, we will defeat Project 2025, and we are going, and we're asking the judges to hold the line.

We are, we see a number of rulings. We're winning in courts, but they're not respecting our constitution. And in that sense, we need to protect it by mobilizing. There will be, there will be no fear, but the fear of what will happen to us if we don't mobilize, and this is the time that we want no wars, no wars in Latin America, no wars in the Middle East, and no wars at home. This is the time to stand up and hold the line, and Chicago is mobilizing and fighting back

to an administration that is unhinged, attacking innocent civilians with the full weight of the government and the militia that has been deployed as a military weapon, a militia, personally militia, of the want to be dictator. And also, what we're not talking about, the intimidation of judges, last week or a few weeks ago, they burned the house of one of the judges.

we must hold the line and protect each other, mobilization organizing, and not giving them an inch. In the courts, in the streets, in legislative bodies, wherever we need to fight, we're going to fight back. And Leah Greenberg, as you mentioned,

these are not just nationwide protests. They're actually also global. So if you can tell us what are the cities where you think the protests will be biggest. And then your guidance to protesters about how to keep safe this weekend as these protests go on. Absolutely.

Well, it's hard for me to say, where I think it's going to be biggest, I think we are going to have enormous protests in many of the big and the big cities across America. I also think that I can't emphasize enough how incredible we are seeing these smaller protests in places where there has never been a protest before. We are hearing about, you know, dozens of protests across Montana and West Virginia and North Dakota. People are coming out in neighborhoods that maybe have never protested before because they are so activated. They might not have ever been political before, but they are activated by what is happening in this country right now, and they know they have

to show up. And in terms of safety and security, we take this incredibly seriously. We've been working very closely with hosts across the country who are organizing these protests to make sure that everybody is trained in safety and de-escalation, has a safety plan that there are marshals on hand when needed. And if folks are interested in security and safety training, then they can go to our website, no kings.org. We have safety protocols for folks to participate. Leo, we have to leave it there, but we will cover these protests. Of course,

bring it to folks on Monday. Leah Greenberg, co-execor Director of Indivisible, part of Saturdays No Kings protests in Byron Sikcho Lopez, Alderperson for Chicago's 25th award. That does it for the show. I'll be at the Lensick Theater tonight in Santa Fe for the Santa Fe for the Santa Fe International Film Festival with the showing

of the film about Democracy Now. Steal the story, please. Tomorrow at the Woodstock film festival, at 3 o'clock at Woodstead. Stock Playhouse. I'm Amy Goodman with Noreen Shea.