Democracy Now! Audio - Democracy Now! 2025-10-30 Thursday

Episode Date: October 30, 2025

Democracy Now! Thursday, October 30, 2025

From New York, this is Democracy Now. President Trump has directed the Pentagon to resume. President Trump has directed the Pentagon to resumed. testing nuclear weapons for the first time since 1992. He made the announcement just before meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping to discuss trade relations. We'll get the latest on both stories. Then to Sudan, where the RSF militia is being accused of killing over 2,000 people,

including over 400 in a hospital, after capturing the city. of El Fasher in Darfur. Then to Cuba. On the same day, Hurricane Melissa battered the island, the United Nations voted to condemn the U.S. embargo for a 33rd year in a row. All that and more coming up. Welcome to Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org, the War and Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman.

Dan's government says the Rapid Support Forces paramilitary group has killed at least 2,000 people in the three days since it seized control of the city of Al-Fashir in North Darfur. This comes as the World Health Organization says it's appalled by reports that 460 patients and their companions were slaughtered at the Saudi Maternity Hospital in Elfasher. On Wednesday, UN Refugee Agency official Jacqueline Wilma Parleviette said tens of thousands of displaced people have been arriving at Tuila, a refuge for civilians fleeing the violence. They describe widespread, ethnically and politically motivated killings and indiscriminate attacks, particularly affecting the most vulnerable.

We have accounts of people with disabilities who were executed, who were killed, as they were unable to flee. But we also hear people that are trying to leave the city and manage to get out of the city, but on the way, they're caught up and they are also being shot. In Gaza, Israel's military launched several airstrikes on the southern city of Kahn Yunus this morning, even after it announced a resumption of the ceasefire. The bombings followed a wave of Israeli attacks a day earlier that killed at least 104 civilians, including 46 children. On Wednesday, friends and neighbors

held a funeral procession through Nusserat for the Abu Dahl family killed by an Israeli strike on their home. Nine people from the Abu Dahl family and the house next to us were completely wiped out. Not a single person survived. They pulled them out, all as remains,

from under the rubble, remains. They would bring a piece of the body and say, this belongs to so-and-so. bring a hand and say this belongs to so-and-so. It was a very difficult process. Meanwhile, Israeli forces have intensified raids across the occupied West Bank, storming villages near Janine and Ramallah. Separately, Israeli settlers stormed a Bedouin village east of Jerusalem, destroying Palestinian property and blocking roads. In another incident, Israeli settlers cut down hundreds of olive trees near Nablus. The settler attacks came as Israeli authorities,

said they would deport two Jewish women who recently joined Palestinians harvesting olives. In his statement, the group rabbis for human rights said, quote, the decision to deport these volunteers reflects an alarming trend of silencing nonviolent human rights work and Jewish voices for justice in Israel, Palestine, unquote. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth said Wednesday, the Pentagon had bombed another alleged drug trafficking boat and interoperated. international waters in the eastern Pacific killing four people. In a social media post, Hegg Seth, wrote, quote,

the Western Hemisphere is no longer a safe haven for narco-terrorists, bringing drugs to our shores to poison Americans, unquote. He provided no evidence supporting his claims there were drugs aboard the vessel. This comes as CNN as reporting the Trump administration pushed three-star general, Joe McGee, out of his role on the Pentagon's joint staff following months of tensions with Secretary Hegseth on issues ranging from Russian Ukraine to the extrajudicial killings in the Caribbean. President Trump says he's agreed to a one-year trade truce with China that includes the

rollback of some tariffs following face-to-face talks in South Korea with Chinese President Xi Jinping. As part of the deal, Beijing agreed to postpone export controls on rare earth minerals and said it would crack down on fentanyl trafficking. China also agreed to resume buying American-made soybeans. of more on the Trump-She summit later in the broadcast. President Trump says he's instructed the Pentagon to begin testing nuclear weapons for the first time in 33 years. Citing China and Russia, Trump wrote on his truth social platform, quote, because of other countries testing

programs, I've instructed the Department of War to start testing our nuclear weapons on an equal basis, unquote. It is unclear what he was referring to. Russia, and China have not tested a nuclear weapon in decades. North Korea tested a nuclear weapon more than eight years ago. The U.S. conducted its last nuclear test back in 1992, soon after President George H.W. Bush announced a moratorium on nuclear weapons testing. After headlines will have more on the story. Hurricane Melissa is bearing down on Bermuda after leaving a trail of destruction across the Caribbean,

with at least 34 confirmed dead, most of them, Haiti. Jamaica's confirmed at least eight deaths after Melissa made landfall Tuesday as one of the most powerful Atlantic hurricanes on record. This is Sasha Hamilton, a resident of the hard-hit Catherine Hall neighborhood of Montego Bay in Jamaica. Yesterday was absolutely catastrophic and life-threatening. We were totally inundated. The entire ground floors of all the houses in Catherine Hall and West Green have been flooded. Major asset loss to vehicles, furniture, we had to do rescue. And we are literally desperate for some help at this point. According to Ackyweather, Hurricane Melissa could cost Jamaica $22 billion in damages

in economic losses more than Jamaica's annual gross domestic product. Rebuilding could take more than a decade. The United Nations General Assembly's condemned the U.S. embargo on Cuba but for the 33rd consecutive year on Wednesday, 165 countries vote in favor of a non-binding resolution calling on the U.S. to lift the embargo, while seven nations, including the U.S., Ukraine, and Israel voted against it. This is Cuban Foreign Minister Bruno Rodriguez. The blockade is collective punishment as an act of genocide, which flagrantly, massively, and systematically violates the human rights of Cubans.

It doesn't distinguish between social sectors or economic actors. If the United States government had the smallest concern with helping the Cuban people, as they say, suspend or make humanitarian exceptions to the blockade given the damage it will cause, just like Hurricane Melissa is causing. Wednesday's vote came as the hurricane struck eastern Cuba, causing major damage but no deaths after more than 700,000 people were evacuated. Later in the broadcast, we'll get an update from reporter Liva Hernandez, who's on the ground in Santiago de Cuba. The U.S. federal government shutdown has entered its 30th day. On Wednesday, Senate Majority Leader John Thune blocked a bid by Senate Democrats to fund food assistance through the shutdown after the Trump administration refused to draw from a $5 billion contingency fund to maintain SNAP, the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, without. federal funding, some 42 million people who rely on SNAP could lose benefits beginning on Saturday. A congressional candidate in Illinois's 9th District has been indicted in federal

charges by the Department of Justice. Democrat Kat, Abu Ghazela, faces one count of conspiracy and one charge alleging she, quote, forcibly impeded, intimidated, and interfered, unquote, with an ICE officer. She's been frequently protesting outside the ICE facility in Broadview, Illinois, soon after indictment, she posted this video on social media. As I and others have exercised our First Amendment rights, ICE has hit, dragged, thrown, shot with pepperballs, and tear gassed hundreds of protesters. Simply because we had the gall to say that masked men coming into our communities, abducting our neighbors, and terrorizing us, cannot be our new normal.

And because Chicago doesn't back down from bullies and masks who tear gas our neighborhoods, This administration has resorted to weaponizing the federal justice system to scare us into silence. But we're not going to be silent. To see our interview with Catabugazela, go to DemocracyNow.org. The Department of Justice has suspended two federal prosecutors after they referred in court documents to the January 6th insurrection as being carried out by a mob of rioters. The prosecutors, Carlos Valdivia, and Samuel White had filed a sentencing memo against January 6th, rioter Taylor, Toronto, who was pardoned by President Trump on the first day of his second term in office. The two prosecutors were seeking 27 months in prison for Toronto for bringing

guns and illegal ammunition to President Barack Obama's home in 2023 after Trump posted Obama's Washington address on social media. By Wednesday afternoon, the sentencing document was removed and replaced with another document without references to January 6th, Trump's social media Post and the two prosecutors. A jury in Illinois convicted Sean Grayson, a sheriff's deputy of second-degree murder in the 24th shooting death of Sonia Massey, a black mother of two, who had called 911 herself about a suspected prowler. Grayson was originally charged with first-degree murder, but the jury opted to convict him

on a lesser charge. That prompted anger from Massey's supporters, including her father, James Wilburn. There's a difference in this country when you have my skin color and graced skin color. We need serious justice, not a miscarriage of justice that happened here in Peoria. We need to pass the George Floyd Policing Act. We need to pass the John Lewis Voting Act. We need to make the Sonia Massey law across. the whole United States, then no family in our country can go through what our family has gone through.

In July, 2024, Sean Grayson and other deputy arrived at Massey's house after she reported suspicious activity. Grayson then shot Massey after he confronted her about handling a pot of hot water. There is no indication from body cam video that Massey intended to throw the hot water at either officer. And in the Netherlands, the center-left D-66 party made huge gains in national elections winning the largest share of seats in the Dutch House of Representatives. The far-right anti-immigrant party of Gert Wilders lost support and came in second. The election was triggered after Wilders pulled his party out of the government in June after the other parties refused to endorse his anti-refugee policies. The election results allow the 38-year-old Rob Yetten to form a

government as the Netherlands's youngest and first openly gay prime minister. This is an historic election result because we've shown not only to the Netherlands, but also to the world, that it is possible to beat populist and extreme right movements. And those are some of the headlines. This is DemocracyNow. DemocracyNow.org, the war and peace report. I'm Amy Meek. And I'm Nadmien Sheikh. Welcome to our listeners and viewers across the country and around the world. We begin today's show looking at U.S.-China relations.

and President Trump's threat to resume nuclear weapons testing. President Trump and President Xi Jinping met in South Korea and agreed to a one-year trade truce. But the trade deal was overshadowed by Trump's announcement that the U.S. would resume testing nuclear weapons for the first time since 1992. Just before his meeting with Xi, Trump wrote on truth social, quote, because of other countries' testing programs,

I have instructed the Department of War to start testing our nuclear weapons on an equal basis. will begin immediately, Trump wrote. It's unclear what President Trump was referring to. Russia and China have not tested a nuclear weapon in decades. North Korea last tested one in 2017. Trump spoke briefly with reporters after his meeting with Xi flying back to the United States. It had to do with others.

They seem to all be nuclear testing. We have more nuclear weapons than anybody. We don't do testing. We've halted it years, many years ago. But with others doing testing, I think it's appropriate that we do also. Did Israel do it still? Around the testing, like where or when? It'll be announced.

You know, we have test sites. It'll be announced. Trump's threat to resume nuclear tests comes just months before the last major nuclear arms control treaty between the United States and Russia expires. The new Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty, or New START, expires. February of next year. We go right now to Dr. Ira Helfand. He's an expert on the medical consequences of nuclear war, former president of physicians for social responsibility, which won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1985. He also serves on the steering committee of the Back from the Brink campaign. He's today joining us from Winnipeg, Canada, where he's speaking at

the fifth youth nuclear peace summit. Dr. Helfand, welcome back to Democracy Now. you must have been shocked last night when just before the certainly globally touted meeting between Trump and Xi, Trump sent out on social media that he's going to begin testing nuclear weapons, comparing it saying that we have to test them on an equal basis referring to countries like Russia and China. Can you explain what he is talking about? They like the United States haven't tested nuclear weapons in decades? Good morning, Amy. Actually, I can't explain what he's talking about because it doesn't make any sense. As you pointed out, Russia and China have not tested nuclear weapons for decades.

And I think the most important thing right now is that the White House has got to clarify what President Trump is talking about. If we really are going to resume explosive nuclear testing, this is an extraordinarily destabilizing decision and one which will, increase even more, the already great danger that we have of stumbling into a nuclear conflict. But they need to clarify this because, as you pointed out, the statement doesn't make sense in terms of what's actually happening in the world. And Dr. Halfan, what would these tests entail were this to actually occur the way that Trump has said?

Well, again, it's not clear what he's talking about. If he is speaking about resuming explosive nuclear testing, presumably this would not be in the atmosphere, which is prohibited by a treaty which the United States did sign and ratify in 1963, but it would be underground nuclear explosions. And the principal dangers there, I think, is political. This will undoubtedly trigger response by other countries that have nuclear weapons and dramatically accelerate the already very dangerous arms race that the world finds itself in today. The one perhaps value of this statement is that it helps to draw attention to the fact that the nuclear problem has not gone away

as so many of us would like to believe we are facing the gravest danger of nuclear war that has existed on the planet since the end of the Cold War and possibly worse than it was during the Cold War and this comes at a time when the best science we have shows that even a very limited nuclear war one that might take place between India and Pakistan has a potential to trigger a global famine

that could kill a quarter of the human race in two years we have to recognize that reality and we need to change our nuclear policy so that it is no longer based on the idea that nuclear weapons make us safe, but that it recognizes the fact that nuclear weapons are the greatest threat to our safety. And for citizens in the United States, in particular,

I think this means doing things like are advocated by the back from the bring campaign, calling on the United States to stop this tit-for-tat exchange of threats with our nuclear adversaries and to enter into negotiations with all aid of the nuclear armed states for a verifiable and forcible agreement that will allow them to eliminate their nuclear arsenals

according to an agreed upon timetable. And so they could all join the treaty on the prohibition of nuclear weapons at some point when they have completed this task. This idea is dismissed sometimes as being unrealistic. I think what's unrealistic is the belief that we can continue to maintain these enormous nuclear arsenals and expect that nothing is going to go wrong. We've been lucky over and over again.

This year alone, five of the nine countries which have nuclear weapons have been engaged in active military conflict. Indian Pakistan, we're fighting each other. That could easily have escalated into a nuclear war between them, which could have had devastating consequences for the entire planet. And we keep dodging bullets and we keep acting as though that's going to keep happening. It isn't. Our luck is going to run out at some point.

And we have to recognize that. We have to recognize the only way to guarantee our safety is to get rid of these weapons once and for all. Dr. Halfan, before we conclude just about the timing of Trump's comment, which came just days after Russia said it had successfully tested a nuclear-armed missile, which had said could penetrate U.S. defenses. Do you think Trump was responding to that without perhaps understanding that there was a difference between that and carrying out explosive nuclear tests? It's certainly possible in the timing suggests that maybe what's happening.

But again, the White House needs to clarify this statement because as it stands, it was an explicit instruction to begin testing at the test sites which suggests nuclear explosive testing. I suspect that is not what the president meant. But at this point, who knows? Right. It was nuclear capable, not nuclear armed. And finally, I mean, he's talking about doing this.

immediately instructing what he called the War Department, the Department of War, isn't the energy department in charge of the nuclear stockpile? And aren't scores of nuclear scientists now furloughed during the government shutdown? Who is maintaining this very dangerous stockpile? Well, that was another striking inconsistency in that statement. It is not the Pentagon, which he referred to as the Department of War, that would be conducting nuclear testing. if it recurs. It is, as you suggested, it's the Department of Energy that it's responsible for this activity. So again, another area in which the statement is just confusing, puzzling, and needs clarification. And I think, you know, this is a really urgent matter because as it stands,

the statement itself is destabilizing. It raises tension. It creates further problems. And we don't need that anymore. And opens the door for other countries. Is that right to test nuclear weapons? Well, absolutely. And that would be, you know, there would be absolutely nothing the U.S. could do that would more undermine our security at this point with the cross-nuclear weapons than to resume testing. It would give a green light to many other countries to resume testing as well and lead to a markedly increase instability in the global situation. Dr. Iyer-Helfand, we thank you so much for being with us, former President of Physician for Social Responsibility, won the Nobel Peace Prize PSR in

1985, serving on the steering committee of the Back from the Brink campaign, joining us interestingly from Winnipeg, Canada, where he is speaking at the Fifth Youth Nuclear Peace Summit. Coming up, we look at the U.S.-China trade truce and President Trump's meeting with Xi Jinping for the first time in years, even if the meeting did not last even two hours. Stay with us. Well, I'm the first to say, we're all going to be the first to say, we're all going to be all right. been feeling let's away. We're all going to be all right. It's always been this way. We've always have been all right.

Sinkane in our Democracy Now studio. This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org. I'm Amy Goodman with Nirmine Sheikh. We turn now to look at U.S.-China trade relations after President Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping agreed to a one-year trade truce during. their meeting in South Korea. Trump agreed to cut fentanyl-related tariffs to 10% while Beijing agreed to postpone export controls on rare earth minerals and crackdown on fentanyl trafficking. China also agreed to resume buying American-made soybeans. On Thursday, she talked about the importance of China-U.S. relations. I always believe that China's development goes hand-in-hand with your vision to make America great again.

Our two countries are fully able to help each other succeed and prosper together. Over the years, I have stated in public many times that China and the United States should be partners and friends. This is what history has taught us and what reality needs demands. She was speaking through a translator. We're joined now by Nancy Chen, Professor of Economics at Northwestern University, co-director of Northwestern University's Global Poverty Research Lab, founding director of the China Econ Lab. Welcome back to Democracy Now, Professor Chen. What was most significant to you about this deal that was made between President Trump and Xi?

I think the thing that really stands out to me and probably many others is simply that they met. You know, geopolitical competition has been increasing steadily since Trump won. It escalated during Biden and even more so during Trump too. So there was a real concern about how this competition is going to play out. You know, are we going to end in a worst case scenario? Are we going to end up in conflict or can we get a dialogue going? So I think the fact that they met at all has to be a good thing, right? Talking means not fighting.

Talking means hopefully more talking. And I think that's the biggest takeaway for all of us. Professor Chen, what do you think prompted this meeting? now? You know, China and the U.S. has been kind of playing shadow boxing and all-out boxing for years. All the levers and buttons that they can push and pull in order to compete have sort of been played out. They've been pushed and they've been pulled, right? So at this point, it's sort of like, what now? Tariffs, are we going to go from 100% to 200% to 300% to 300% to 300 percent. You know, we've gotten to a point where it doesn't really have meaning anymore.

So they sort of have to talk. So if you can talk about the different points of this agreement, for example, the soybeans, isn't this all a creation of Trump? I mean, he caused the problem and then solved it, right? He increased the tariffs. China said they were going to cut off buying soybeans from the U.S. They're a major buyer of those soybeans, which really, endangered American soybean farmers and was buying it from Argentina that Trump is bailing out to the tune of $20 billion at least. Explain what were these issues from fentanyl to soybeans and beyond. So 20 percent or so of U.S. soybean export go to China. China's a really big buyer. So when Trump raised tariffs on the Chinese goods, you know, the Chinese retaliated and many

ways. One way was to say we're not going to buy agriculture exports from the U.S. And this was really smart on the part of the Chinese. Not only do the Chinese have a lot of economic power and being such major buyers of American agricultural products. You know, these are also farmers. American farmers are also in red districts. These are the places that voted for Trump. So they were tactically trying to reduce political support for Trump economic policies from Trump's red political base. And it's not just soybeans, as you've alluded to, it's many other things. So one thing that we don't think about much in the United States is way. So for those of us who don't know what way is, it's a protein that comes from milk. In the U.S.,

we don't really consume much of it. It's usually we see it in the form of protein shakes, right, for people who want to go to the gym or bodybuilders. But in China, it's a nutritional supplement that's used by schoolchildren, the elderly, and it turns out that 40% of way exports go to China from the U.S. So this is just another product that China has a lot of economic power over. And what's happening since, you know, Trump has increased tariffs, actually it goes further back than that. Since Trump won, the U.S. and China have been preparing themselves for more escalation, more economic competition. And the way that China has been doing it is to build up food reserves so that they don't need to rely on U.S. exports and to build up economic relationships

with countries like Argentina and Brazil so that they can import foods from these other countries in case they get into a tat with the United States. So I think what we're seeing in terms of soybeans is just one of the strategies that's being tested out, right? So China is saying how much power can we get by pulling our economic levers in terms of how much we import from American farmers. And the U.S. is trying to figure out how much political support will we lose if American farmers are hurt. And what we're seeing now is these things being played out,

and that's why we see the shifts back and forth because it's part of a larger political and economic experiment. And Professor Chet, I mean, there's also the question, the fact that China trades more with more countries in the world, 70% more countries China has trade with than the U.S. If you could talk about 70%, 150 countries, if you could talk about the significance of that. So that's a really great point. You know, one of the things that we need to remember when we talk about trade between China and the U.S. is that these are very large and diverse economies.

and trade in total is only a part of the economy, not to mention trade with each other. So while they can really hurt each other by reducing trade with each other, they also have many options to other countries. So for China, 20% of its GDP relies on exports. And as you say, China trades with many countries other than the United States.

That said, though, the U.S. is China's largest trade. partner. So out of that total, those 20% exports, 15% goes to the U.S. and around 15% goes to the EU. You know, an EU is going to contain a lot of those 70 countries, right? And at the same time, the U.S. relies on China, much less China relies on the U.S. in terms of exports and trade, because trade in general is only 25% of the U.S. total GDP. So I think, you know, as you're trying to figure out how to compete with each other. The governments of both countries are looking at these numbers and trying to say, well, you know, on the one hand, we want to keep trading with each other because otherwise we're going to suffer a lot and maybe we'll lose domestic

political support. On the other hand, you know, what are the other things we can do? So for the U.S. are thinking, you know, how can we shift our reliance on China to other countries, right? And how much can we rely on domestic economy, our domestic economy to keep us going? In China, China's thinking these 70 other countries that we're trading with, how much can we build up trade with them to substitute what we'll lose with the U.S.? Professor Chan, I want to thank you for being with us. Nancy Chen is Professor of Economics at Northwestern University in Chicago, co-director of Northwestern University's Global Poverty Research Lab. Also founding director of the China Econ Lab, we will link to your piece for Project Syndicate headlined,

and Americans can't win from Trump's trade war. This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org. I'm Amy Goodman with Nirmin-Sheikh. Sudan's government says the rapid support forces paramilitary group has killed at least 2,000 people in the three days since it seized control of the city of Al-Fashir in the Darfur region. The World Health Organization has condemned the reported killing of 460 patients and their companions at the Saudi Maternity Hospital in Al-Fashir.

The fall of Al-Fashir is seen as a major blow to the Sudanese military. The city has been besieged by the RSF for 18 months, leading to widespread famine. The civil war in Sudan erupted in 2023. Since then, more than 150,000 people have died across the country, and about 12 million have fled their homes. For more, we're joined by Matil Vu, Sudan advocacy manager at the Norwegian Refugee Council. She's joining us from Nairobi, Kenya. joined by Nathaniel Raymond, executive director of the humanitarian research lab at the Yale School of Public Health. The lab has been monitoring El Fasher for the duration of the siege.

Welcome you both to Democracy Now. Matilda, I want to go to you first. Have you reached Norwegian Refugee Council workers on the ground in El Fasher? What do you understand has taken place? Can you talk about what you know of the Saudi hospital and the hundreds killed there? What's happening is no less than a mass calculated long-land campaign of destruction and annihilation. A mass slaughter of civilians' deliberate attack on civilian infrastructure, like the hospital that you just mentioned, it just became a killing ground as hundreds of people were sheltering

in it. And it's not only in Al-Fashir, anyone who is trying to feel Al-Fashir right now is subjected to horrifying violence. My teams are not in Alfasha. No one is. There hasn't been any organization allowed to deliver assistance into Alfashir for the past 500 days. We were receiving people who have managed to flee, who have survived it, 60 kilometers of horror, of looting, of attack, of rape, mass attention. And it's just overwhelming to see these mass atrocity unfolding we speak. And Matils, could you talk about the fact that so many people as they're fleeing are also being killed, raped, assaulted, detained.

You know what really strikes us is that we are in this town called Tawila where we're receiving the people who are fleeing. And there's only a few thousand people, actually a little bit more than 5,000 people who've managed to reach Tawila. But we know that 10,000 of people are trying to flee our fashire.

So where are all those 10,000 of families, you know? And we really fear that they're being attacked. We know of mass detention on the way. We know that men are being separate. and in detain, the women who've managed to flee or telling us that they've been raped. One of the things that strike me the most is that when I look at the data that we have from Tawila, one in ten families have children that are not their own. You know what that means?

That means that the parents have disappeared. That means that the parents have been killed on the way and that these children have just had to run with other families in order to arrive in Tawila with nothing else, but unknown people that are protecting them. And I'd like to bring in Nathaniel Raymond. You are the executive director of the humanitarian research lab at the Yale School of Public Health, which has been monitoring what's happening in Alfashir in the last, for the duration of the siege. Could you tell us what you found?

What we've seen in the now over 72 hours since RSF has taken control of Alfashir is quite simply the sum of all our fears over the past year and a half. We see clear evidence of house-to-house killing as evidenced by the appearance in the street and by the berm, the earthen walls surrounding Elfosher, of objects that range from 1.3 meters to 2 meters in satellite imagery. Why that's important is the average human body, when laid on the ground horizontally, measures between 1.3 to 2 meters. Additionally, we're seeing around those objects in many cases a peculiar red discoloration in the initial imagery collection. We believe that red discoloration can only be explained by blood, given our processing of those discolourations. They are all the same color, which is called

true red. Additionally, we see by the earth and wall on the first day of RSF control, these objects consistent with bodies consistent with the videos RSF themselves have posted of them shooting men in a trench near the wall. On the second day, the images we collected showed that those objects had not moved in the intervening 24 hours, but in fact, those objects had increased in number, and that vehicles, consistent with RSF vehicles, and gun mount, basically large machine guns mounted in the back, were patrolling along the wall. And again, we saw the red discoloration on the ground.

So right now, we can conclude with high confidence that RSF is killing at a scale and a velocity that I haven't seen since Rwanda. The Yale Humanitarian Research Lab work with the Biden administration on Sudan and warm something like this could happen. Can you elaborate on this and also talk about the role of the UAE, the United Arab Emirates, Tell us who the RSFR. Thanks, Amy. We, the Yale Humanitarian Research Lab, were part of a program under the Biden administration called the Sudan Conflict Observatory. In the summer of 2023, we privately met with the United Nations Security Council and warned them that El Fosher could potentially be under siege within months. And if L. Fosher fell, it would result in mass killing of civilians.

Additionally, we sent an emergency warning within the Biden administration, which rose to the level of the National Security Council and the highest levels of the U.S. intelligence community, saying that we believed El Fawcher was in danger. We reiterated that warning internally in the U.S. government in the fall of 2023. We became extremely frustrated with the process within the government about how the threat to El Fosher, and other populations in Darfur was being handled. And so we did not renew our contract, and we left to go independent in the winter and spring of 2024 when the siege began in El Fosher. And so the point you bring up at the United Arab Emirates is critical for people to understand. Robbie Gramer and a team at the Wall Street Journal reported what I think is the most important

story in the world right now on Monday, which is that U.S. intelligence assessments that they have seen shows the U.S. Intelligence Committee knew that the United Arab Emirates, a U.S. major defense partner, that's an official designation, has been arming the rapid support forces, and that that arming has increased in recent months, including with weapons systems that the Wall Street Journal identifies that our team at Yale, had identified in the fight in El Fasher. So what we know from the Wall Street Journal is U.S. intelligence knows that a U.S. ally has been arming the group committing acts that are tainted genocide in El Fosher.

Well, Nathania, one of the things that's interesting or perplexing about this is that whatever ceasefire talks have occurred so far on Sudan have occurred under the auspices of the quad, which includes the U.S., Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and the United Arab Emirates. So given that it's so transparently party to the conflict, how does one explain that? One explains that by simply saying that Western relations with the United Arab Emirates have mattered more than the lives of the people on the ground in El Fasher for the entirety of Sudan civil war. If the U.S. wants to show real leadership right now, and we're talking a situation that's unfolding in hours, if there is any hesitancy to act, every day, we're talking literally thousands of people dying a day. We could surpass the death toll of the past two years in Gaza reasonably by the end of this week, given the amount of bodies we're seeing on the streets. And so right now, all pressure needs to be on the United Arab Emirates.

There is no other option. And as long as the United Arab Emirates gets to skate on arming a genocidal actor, this isn't going to end. And Matil Wu, before we conclude, I'd like to ask you about the humanitarian aid that's getting into Sudan. You know, Sudan is the worst humanitarian and displacement crisis in the world at the moment. There have been massive cuts in aid. The Trump administration has cut billions and billions of dollars of funding to U.S. aid. In addition to that, the U.K. and the EU have cut humanitarian funding. What's the impact of that in Sudan?

The fact is that we can barely save lives where it's really delaying death right now. I mean, all over Sudan, there are like multiple crises, starvation, speeches, cholera break, you name it. Everything is in Sudan. It's the largest displacement crisis, the largest hunger crisis. And sadly, the funds are not there at all. It's not even half of what we need is actually disbursed at the moment. And more than that, even when we have the fund, it's extremely difficult to work in Sudan.

The warring parties have deliberately obstructed humanity and assistance inside the country with an area of bureaucratic impediment, but also just simply with this. siege, once again, Al-Fasher, if one, the only reason why there hasn't been any assistance there is because it's been impeached and because there's been a deliberate attempt to prevent assistance trucks, people from reaching these hundreds of thousands of civilians who are just being starved. Finally, Nathaniel Raymond, can you explain what's at stake with this war? That's a really critical question. Amy. What's at stake with this war is not just the lives of civilians on the ground,

but it's really the future of the responsibility to protect movement, everything that has been happening in the past 30 years since Rwanda and Bosnia to build mechanisms legally, operationally, to respond to mass atrocity crimes. The failure to prevent what is arguably the most accurately predicted and the most accurately warned mass atrocity in history really is about more than Sudan. It's about whether the international community cares anymore about civilian protection from mass atrocity crimes. The answer Al Fosher is giving us is no. Nathaniel Raymond, I want to thank you for being with us. Nathaniel Raymond is the Executive Director of the Humanitarian Research Lab at the Yale School of Public Health.

We also want to thank Matild Vu, Sudan Advocacy Manager, with the Norwegian Refugee Council, speaking to us from Nairobi, Kenya. Next up, we go to Cuba. Stay with us. A song of A song of love and of Goce A song of love

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A That's Cuban artist, Sylvia Rodriguez, performing at the summer stage concert in New York City, oh, back in 2017. This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org. I'm Amy Goodman with Nermine Sheikh. In today's show in Cuba. On Wednesday, the United Nations General Assembly voted to condemn the U.S. embargo on Cuba for the 33rd consecutive year, with 165 countries voting in favor of a non-binding resolution calling on the U.S. to lift the embargo, while seven nations that the U.S. reportedly pressured

voted against it, including Ukraine and Israel. On Tuesday, Trump's U.N. ambassador, Mike Walt, broke with tradition to give a long speech from the stage at the U.N. General Assembly during the debate on the embargo. urging countries to reject the resolution. Waltz was also Trump's national security advisor and infamously set up a signal group chat earlier this year to discuss plans to bomb Yemen and then accidentally invited Atlantic editor Jeffrey Goldberg to join. Cuban foreign minister Bruno Rodriguez Padilla made a point of order as Walt spoke.

They undermine democracies in our hemisphere. I'm very sorry to interrupt, but there's a point of order from Cuba. Sure. Madam Poston, yes? Yes, we have to give the floor to the point of order and the representative of Cuba. The permanent representative of the United States not only lies by substantially deviating from the topic,

but also speaks in a rude and arrogant manner. Mr. Walsh, this is the United Nations General Assembly. This is not a signal chat, nor is at the House of Representatives. Wednesday's vote came as Hurricane Melissa struck Eastern Cuba after hitting Jamaica, causing major damage but no reported deaths after more than 700,000 people evacuated. For more, we're joined by two guests. Mikhail Wolf is Associate Professor of History at Stanford University, specializing in Latin America and the Caribbean. He wrote a Washington Post piece headlined when it comes to Hurricane. the U.S. can learn a lot from Cuba.

And in eastern Cuban province of Santiago de Cuba, we are joined by Liz Oliver Fernandez, a reporter with Belli of the Beast who's on the ground covering the storm's impact. Liz, welcome back to democracy now. Why don't you explain what happened? I mean, we're talking about we don't know how many deaths in the rest of the Caribbean, from Haiti to Jamaica. What happened in Cuba? Well, thank you for the invitation. It's a pleasure for me being here.

Well, in Cuba, no one's death. There is no casualties that we can, there is no human lives that we lost. That's because the labor and the work of the civil defense of Cuba, something that I'm pretty sure that the professor Mikhail has a lot to say about that. But I'm just going to say that United Nations has been writing down that Cuba is a One of the example is a role model when we talk about risk management disasters. I mean, 700,000 Cubans were evacuated leading up to the storm. If you can describe how that happened and what that model is. Yeah, well, this is something that is stars before the hurricane touches land.

The work of the civil defense is that like really early in this. Wednesday, Tuesday morning, so sorry. So they're trying to evacuate as many people as possible. And they, for example, the way they look is the way it is focused on prevention. For example, if you live close to the coast, if you live in a house where the infrastructure is weak, you're going to be evacuated. that there is a different kind of evacuations that we have in Cuba, for example. Some is that you are taking to a government institution.

They are going to take care of you. And the other one is you are going to a house that could be a friend, a family, a relative, a neighbor that is going to host you during the hurricane because their house is better prepared for facing an hurricane than yours. But it's not just evacuating people. I think like the way that the Cuban informs the population is really good. Like I did a report where people were talking about like they were like a five days before the hurricane came talking about, okay, this is a huge hurricane. You need to pay attention.

You need to follow the news. if you don't have internet or connection or any sign because the power the electricity power is down, they just going around the street in a car like talking to the people

screaming that, stay in your home, don't let you none and they're trying I think like in Cuba we have a really good culture about what is the things that we need to do in when you're in a hurricane is

came to our country. And I think like people already learn about that. People really listen to the civil defense. People really listen to the news. They, sometimes we have casualties, for example, in a hurricane, Sandy in 2012, that was also in Santiago de Cuba, we have casualties in that. So every time that something like that happened, I think like the work of the civil defense strength, people learn more

because many of these casualties are because in disciplines, because you say don't walk through the hurricane because during the eye, everything is calm, but then the storm starts again. And I think that in this point, people are really aware of the dangers

of surviving, our facing and hurricane. And right now, Santilla was really calm. They just start the work of normal. trying to normalize the life, trying to clean the roads, because here in Santiago City, the main sign of a hurricane just go through is like you have a lot of downs from the roots laid down on the streets. And it's like the panoramic of the hurricane was like

the entire picture of Santiago de Cuba has already changed. It's like you better recognize on a street or a neighborhood. but because they're full of treats on the floor. I want to go to the Cuban foreign minister, Liz, Bruno Rodriguez, speaking at the UN General Assembly yesterday. In recent weeks, the deployment of pressure, intimidation, and toxicity by the U.S. Department of State has been brutal and unprecedented, on a large scale so as to force sovereign countries to change their vote

on the resolution that we adopt today. They have deployed all their weapons, in particular cohesion. But the truth, the law, reason, and justice are always more powerful and conclusive. So, Liz, if you could respond to that, I mean, the impact of this economic embargo and how Cuba nevertheless has the resources to mount this response to the hurricane? Well, that's a really good question because the sanctions is affecting all the aspect of the Cuban lives. and the response to the disaster is one of them because we don't have enough money right now. Well, the government doesn't have enough money

to put in help or in public education. So they have like another kind of priorities. Imagine the amount of money that we have to recover a country after a hurricane as Melissa just passed by. It's insane. Like, I think, and this is one of questions that I have for myself, how is going to Cuba to begin recovering after this hurricane passed? I don't know. I don't know how long it's going to take to Cuba to fully recover, not just from this hurricane.

We talk about we are in an island in the Caribbean, we face a lot of hurricanes and a storm. So how Cuba is going to record for that? I don't know, because certainly this hurricane is hit Cuba in a middle of a deep economic crisis, it was on the top of up by U.S. sanctions, because the goal of the sanctions is to cut Cuba of all kinds of foreign investment, all kind of foreign currency that can come through tourism, international medical missions. So they are trying to deep Cuba in an economic crisis. They're trying to overthrow the Cuban government.

So cutting Cuba from funding is one of the ways that they are trying to do it. Liz Oliva Fernandez is speaking to us from Santiago de Cuba. We're going to go right now to Professor Mikhail Wolfe of Stanford University. You wrote this piece a while ago. about, oh, when it comes to hurricanes, the U.S. can learn a lot from Cuba. If you can talk about that and put it in a larger context of what has just taken place at the U.N. I mean, it's happened year after year after year around the U.S. embargo that crushes Cuba and also penalizes other countries from trading with Cuba.

Yes, thank you, Amy. And thank you for having me on. It's great to hear from you, Liz, too, on the ground in Santiago. Yeah, so the article I wrote a few years ago in the Washington Post occurred in the context of another hurricane that was hitting New Orleans. And, you know, if anybody was around 20 years ago, this is the 20th anniversary of Katrina that destroyed much of New Orleans and the most vulnerable populations there. compared to what happened then when FEMA was really inactive, was not responding to that

under the administration of George W. Bush, Cuba was handling these kinds of disasters, really in an exemplary manner, as Liz pointed out, the United Nations, the Oxford International Development Organization, all independent experts on hurricane preparedness or disaster preparedness in general, have praised Cuba because of the way that it's so comprehensively handles and prepares the population for disasters and has organizations, has people on the ground on the local level who know exactly what to do when they prepare for these hurricanes. And this goes back many decades. I'm a historian, and this interested in me, you know, how did this come about?

It came about very early on in the revolution. a huge hurricane named Flora in 1963. So this is just a year after the missile crisis, two years after the Bay of Pigs invasion, struck the same area of Cuba that Melissa just struck. It was a different kind of hurricane. It did a kind of a loop, double loop around. And it killed about 1,200 people caused a huge amount of damage. And during that, Fidel Castro actually personally led rescue operations.

And the lesson that the Castro and the revolutionary leadership learned is that you needed a much more comprehensive kind of response. And the civil defense is what came out of that a few years later, basically embedding the civil events within many different kinds of departments and organizations all across Cuba. And listen mentioned that people are educated, people know what to do. some of the most popular people on the news in Cuba are meteorologists. People listen to their meteorologists in Cuba. And in fact, meteorologists are probably the only ones that are not criticized by Cubans in Florida, who criticize the Cuban government. I've seen the Cuban dissidents and Cuban critics basically broadcast Cuban meteorologists based in Cuba uncritically.

And this is something they never do for anything else. So in this context, you know, Cuba is... We have 20 seconds, Professor. Yeah, sure. So obviously, the embargo affects this. It affects Cuba's ability to recover from these and is often weaponized right in the moment when Cuba is the most vulnerable.

So the two go definitely hand in hand and have for decades. Well, we want to thank you both for being with us. History, Professor Mikhail Wolf of Stanford University, speaking to us from Palo Alto. He specializes in Latin America and the Caribbean. And Liz Oliver Fernandez, Cuban journalist with Belly of the Beast. We will link to her reports. You can also go to our website for an interview with them in Spanish. I'm Amy Goodman with Nermin Sheikh for another edition of Democracy Now.