Democracy Now! Audio - Democracy Now! 2025-11-18 Tuesday

Episode Date: November 18, 2025

Democracy Now! Tuesday, November 18, 2025

From Belan, Brazil, the gateway to the Amazon, we're at COP 30, the UN Climate Summit. This is Democracy Now. We are here claiming our rights, defending our fore. defending our animals, where we have survived all these years. We need to be recognized by the world as great guardians of the forest. As indigenous protesters march outside the UN Climate Summit, COP 30, we'll look at Brazil's contradictory climate policies. The Lula government has reduced deforestation in the Amazon

while also approving oil drilling. Then we speak to a leading indigenous. activists from Ecuador on the role of indigenous peoples here at the climate talks, plus Kumi Naidu, the long-time South African activist, former head of Greenpeace, as well as Amnesty International, now the president of the Fossil Fuel Non-Proliferation Treaty Initiative. Let's be very clear and say it over and over again that the primary cause of the climate emergency is our addiction and our dependency on fossil fuels. All that and more coming up.

Welcome to Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org, the War and Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman. The United Nations Security Councils approved a U.S. back, plan for a so-called international stabilization force in Gaza. On Monday, 13 council members voted in favor of the resolution, while China and Russia abstained, warning the plan excludes Palestinians from meaningful participation and fails to define any clear role for the UN in shaping Gaza's future. Under the plan, soldiers from Arab and Muslim majority nations would oversee the disarmament of Hamas and other armed Palestinian resistance groups in Gaza.

The force would answer to a newly created so-called Board of Peace chaired by President Trump. Hamas rejected the resolution, saying it imposes an international guardianship mechanism on the Gaza Strip, sidelining the will of Palestinians. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, meanwhile, praised UN approval of Trump's plan, but holds a provision that provides a path to Palestinian statehood unacceptable. On Monday, protesters gathered outside the U.S. mission to the United Nations in Manhattan to reject the resolution. The Palestine Youth Movement wrote, quote,

We see through this thinly veiled attempt to strip the Palestinian people of their sovereignty, self-determination, and right of return, unquote. In the occupied West Bank, Israeli forces arrested at least seven Palestinians earlier today during raids on Bethlehem and the Jalazone refugee camp. They also searched Palestinian homes in Nablus. The raids came as Israeli settlers carried out major arson attacks on Palestinian villages near Bethlehem and Hebron. This is Ali Abulaha, a resident of the village of Al-Jabakh. whose family fled the violence. We were at home when we heard banging.

I went outside and saw mass men throwing rocks towards the house after they had broken the car window. We got scared so we left, and it turned out they were settlers. They ran away from the street after they burned that car over there, my uncle's car, and my other uncle's car as well. They also burned two cars that belonged to my cousin. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu issued a rare public rebuke of the settlers behind the attack.

Netanyahu blamed a small extremist group for the violence. That's despite his consistent support for the expansion of illegal settlements and his push to formally annex the West Bank. In October alone, the United Nations documented more than 260 settler attacks resulting in Palestinian casualties or damage to property in the West Bank. That's the highest monthly toll since the U.S. UN began monitoring settler violence in 2006. Sudan's military says it's repelled an attack by the rival rapid support forces,

paramilitary group, and the government's last stronghold in the West Kordofan region. The fighting came as the UAE backed RSF, pushes further east after seizing most of Sudan's Darfur region, where human rights groups say they carried out mass atrocities, including rape and summary executions. On Monday, the UN's humanitarian chief urged immediate and unhindered access for aid agencies as civilians continued to flee the besieged city of Elfashir. Tens of thousands of city residents remain unaccounted for. Survivors who escaped Elfashir are mostly women, many of whom were separated from male relatives who were shot or whose fate remains unknown. There's no tent where you'll find women saying their husbands came with them,

except for the elderly men. But a young man, it would be impossible for him to leave. The UN says more than two and a half years of civil war in Sudan has left more than 150,000 people dead. About 12 million have been forced from their homes. Voters in Ecuador have rejected the proposed return of foreign military. basis, including ones operated by the United States. About two-thirds of votes cast in Sunday's election opposed the ballot measure backed by President Daniel Neboa, an ally of President Trump.

Voters also rejected Neboa's attempts to rewrite the Constitution with weaker labor and environmental standards. This is opposition politician Luiso Gonzalez. Today, Ecuador's unioned and he said no. united and said, no, you are not in charge here. Here, there is sovereign people who rise up with dignity and say, enough is enough. Today, the history of this country is being rewritten. Here in Brazil, at the COP 30 climate summit, Jamaica's leading calls from vulnerable nations like Mauritius and Cuba to urge wealthier countries to cut emissions to help limit the effects of global warming. On Monday, Matthew Samuda,

Jamaica's economic minister cited the devastating financial impact of Hurricane Melissa. Preliminary estimates place damages around $10 billion U.S. dollars or approximately a third or just under a third of our GDP. No small island state can absorb losses of this magnitude. Excellencies, Jamaicans are resilient, but resilience must not be defined as surviving the unbearable. We did not create this crisis, but we refuse to stand as victims. We choose action. Meanwhile, the Center for International Environmental Law identified over 500 carbon capture and storage lobbyists attending COP 30.

The center said in a statement, quote, the fossil fuel industry is found in AI's energy demand a new narrative to justify its survival and in carbon capture the perfect illusion. Carbon capture and storage cannot make, fossil fuels clean. It just keeps them burning. It doesn't curb emissions. It locks them in, unquote. We'll have more from the COP 30 climate summit here in Berlin, Brazil, after headlines through the whole show. President Trump's welcoming Saudi crown prince, Muhammad bin Salman, to the White House today.

It's the Saudi leader's first trip to Washington since he ordered the 2018 killing and dismemberment of Jamal Khashoggi, a Saudi insider-turned critic and Washington Post columnist. Ahead of the Crown Prince's arrival, Trump Monday said he would authorize the sale of advance F-35 jet fighters to Saudi Arabia, saying, quote, they've been a great ally, unquote. The announcement came as the Trump family business announced plans to partner with the Saudi-based real estate developer Darglobal to build a luxury result in the Maldives financed using cryptocurrency. The acting head of FEMA's resigning after just six months on the job and its growing backlash over his lack of responsiveness to the catastrophic flooding in Texas earlier this

year that killed more than 130 people. David Richardson, who has no disaster response experience, is the second FEMA head to leave or be fired since May. Richardson's predecessor was fired after pushing back against President Trump's attempts to dismantle the agency. Back in June, Richardson baffled FEMA staff when he said he was not aware the U.S. has a hurricane season. A federal magistrate judge overseeing former FBI director James Comey's case is blasting the Justice Department, detailing a, quote, disturbing pattern of profound investigative missteps, unquote. On Monday, Judge William Fitzpatrick and Virginia ordered that grand jury materials be turned over to Comey's lawyers after ruling that Lindsay Halligan, an inexperienced prosecutor who President Trump appointed to secure an indictment against Comey, may have made, quote, fundamental misstatements of the law, unquote. Comey's one of three prominent critics of Trump to be indicted this year. Trump's former National Security Advisor John Bolton was indicted on federal charges of mishandling classified documents, and New York.

State Attorney General Letitia James is facing federal charges of mortgage and bank fraud. Earlier this month, Fannie Mae investigators were removed from their jobs as they were probing if the federal housing finance agency director Bill Pulte, Trump's appointee, had improperly obtained the mortgage records of Democratic officials, including Tish James. And President Trump said Monday he would sign a measure to compel the Justice Department to release the Epstein files if it were to come. come to him a day after he urged Republicans in the House to back the measure. Sure, I would. Let the Senate look at it. Let anybody look at it. But don't talk about it

too much, because honestly, I don't want to take it away from us. It's really a Democrat problem. The Democrats were Epstein's friends, all of them, and it's a hoax. Are we going to break? Days before President Trump reversed his public stance, releasing the Epstein files, he snapped at a female reporter aboard Air Force one Friday when she asked why he wouldn't support their release. Quiet, quiet, piggy, Trump said to the female reporter. This comes as House Republicans released 20,000 files from Epstein's estate last week. putting a spotlight on the late convicted sex offenders' connections with wealthy and powerful men,

such as former Harvard president, former Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers. Summers had tried to forge a secret relationship with a woman, he called his mentee, and in a series of texts and emails with Jeffrey Epstein, Summers asked Epstein for advice in pursuing the woman. In one text, Epstein wrote, quote, she's doomed to be with you. Summers also wrote to Epstein, quote, you're better at understanding Chinese women than at probability theory, unquote. Now calls are growing for Harvard to sever ties with Summers, who remains a professor. On Monday night, he told CNN he's deeply ashamed about his connection with Jeffrey Epstein,

and that he would pause all public engagements back in 2006. Summers was forced to step down as Harvard president after he remarked that innate differences between the sexes explain why fewer women succeed in math and science careers. Meanwhile, a group of Epstein survivors have released a national advertisement urging Congress to release the Epstein files. The one-minute ad begins with the women holding pictures of themselves as children. I suffered so much pain. So much pain. So much pain. I suffered so much pain.

I was 14 years old. I was 16 years old. It was 16. 17. 14 years old. This is me. This was me. This is me. When I met Jeffrey Epstein.

This is me when I met Jeffrey Epstein. There are about a thousand of us. It's time to bring the secrets out of the shadows. It's time to shine a light into the darkness. And those are some of the headlines. This is DemocracyNow, DemocracyNow.org, the war and peace report. I'm Amy Goodman. We're broadcasting from the UN Climate Summit.

That's COP 30, from the Brazilian city of Belém, the gateway to the Amazon. The gathering comes 33 years after the Rio Earth Summit, which created the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change, UNFCCC. This is Brazilian President Luisinastya Lula de Silva. The climate convention returns to the country where it was born. Today, the eyes of the world turned to Belém, with immense expectation. First time in history, a climate cop will take place in the heart of the Amazon.

In the global imagination, there is no greater symbol of the environmental cause than the Amazon rainforest. New data from the Brazilian government shows deforestation of the Amazon has hit an 11-year low. This is Brazil's Environment Minister, Mariana Silva. We have the commitment to end deforestation by 2030. With this experience, we want to encourage and create mechanisms so that this example is followed. It's about leading by example. Now, those who have more financial resources, more human resources, and more technological resources, have the obligation and the responsibility to do more.

That was Brazil's Environment Minister, Marina Silva. While the Brazilian government highlights its work on deforestation, many climate activists have criticized the Lula administration. for recently approving new exploratory drilling near the mouth of the Amazon by state-run oil giant Petrobras. Earlier this year, Brazil joined OPEC, the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries. Brazil has also faced criticism for cutting through rainforest to build a new four-lane highway. It was built in time for the climate summit here in Berlin, though started many years ago. In addition, cruise ships had to be brought into Berlin to help house delegates due to a shortage of hotel rooms in this gateway city. We begin today's show with Ilan Zugman.

He is a Brazilian climate activist and 350.org's regional head for Latin America and the Caribbean. He is based in southern Brazil. Welcome to Democracy Now. It is great to be in your state here. in your country, Brazil. But if you can talk about what the world should understand about Brazil, contradictory environmental history, and home to the Amazon, the Brazilian rainforest.

Of course, well, hello, Amy. Hi, everyone. It's great to be here. And yeah, Brazil is this huge country with many different views. We have the biggest rainforests. rainforests of the world. We have some very powerful movements, indigenous people, traditional communities. It's one of the biggest democracies of the planet. And in this new government

of Lula that was elected about three years ago, the government is trying really to improve the climate and environmental situation of the country. We've been able to achieve good results on reducing deforestation across several biomes, including the Amazon, but also in the Cerrado, that's another important biome of the country. Brazil was also able to create the first ever ministry of indigenous people, protection of indigenous lands is increasing in the country, new lands are being demarcated. But where we are going to face issues in Brazil right now is the part connected with the energy sector where unfortunately Lula is still pushing for new oil and gas areas in the country,

including in the Amazon. A few weeks before the COP 30 started, a new license was granted to Petrobras in the river mouth of the Amazon basin to start exploring for new oil and gas in the area, which is for us, it's super contradictory. The oil industry is the main cause of the climate crisis, if it was not for the oil and gas industry and the coal. We will not be having cops. These are the guys that are causing climate change. The highest greenhouse emissions come from them. So in order to be a real climate leadership, as Lula is saying, as its government is saying, we don't think it's wise, we don't think we are going to be able to tackle climate change and Brazil is not going to be able to hit its own climate

targets if this exploitation of fire and gas in the offshore of the Amazon goes ahead. When you talk about President Lula, Lula's arguing that oil revenues are needed to help finance a green energy transition. Of course, he's been criticized by many for making this comment. Andre Cordelia de Lago, president of the COP 30, has said it is easier and cheaper to borrow money to invest in oil projects and another more sustainable ones, said the money you gain from exploring oil can be used internally for projects that are good for clean energy transition. Yeah, sure. Well, this is a narrative that we've been hearing for several years, not only from Brazil, but from many countries around the world. And we don't think that this is going to happen

in Brazil. Brazil does not have a clear policy about what needs to be done. with the profits from the oil and gas industry. And even though Brazil has been exploiting oil for decades, right, we have the press-out basin that is this huge area in the southeast offshore exploitation. And an analysis done by an organization called INESC discovered that less than 1% from all of the royalties that are coming from the oil exploitation in Brazil are going to the energy transition.

So why now is going to be different? Why now is going to be different? Brazil has not presented yet its own national, just energy transition plan. That was a promise from the government. The government is going to its final year. Next year we have presidential elections in Brazil, and we don't see this plan showing what needs to be done with the royalties from the oil industry. So we need to see a clear plan, and then it's my help, but we think that investments need

to go to renewable energy and not to the oil industry. needs to do a reform of the subsidies because there's millions of subsidies that still goes to oil. Can you talk more about Petrobras, the state oil company, receiving a license from Lula to conduct exploratory oil drilling in the sea, off the Amazon, despite the environmental concerns about the project and right in the lead-up to COP 30? Yeah, sounds crazy, right? But yeah, Petrobras is one of the biggest polluters in the world. is one of the main companies contributing to climate change,

giving its huge portfolio of oil and gas, not only in Brazil, but also in Africa, for example, and other parts of the world. This specific area called Block 59, it was an area that was first purchased by other companies like British Petroleum and Total, and they tried to get a license for many years from IBA, the National Regulation Agency.

They could not get the license and they sold this area to Petrobras. And then Petrobras started this campaign, building pressure in the government. Lula decided to change the president of Petrobras this year to step up the pressure. Politicians from the north of the Amazon also step up their pressure. So this license could be given. And we believe that's a huge mistake. It's a very sensitive area with very important ecosystems.

A oil spill in the area could have like terrible. impact for indigenous communities, fishers, kilombolas, riverine communities. It's an area where we have some very important mangroves that are natural nurseries for biodiversity. So exploiting oil and gas there is a really bad idea that's going to damage the ecosystem and also Brazil reputation as a climate leader. I wanted to ask you about the Amazon rainforest being the lungs of the planet. It's something that I'm so used to saying for so many years. But the fact is that may be misleading now.

National Geographic reports Amazon's net contribution to the oxygen we breathe likely hovers around zero. In 2021, the journal Nature reported the Amazon rainforest is emitting more carbon dioxide than it absorbs driven by deforestation, fires, and warming temperatures. Yeah, that's a sad story. The Amazon used to be the lungs of the planet, but given climate change, deforestation, fires, livestock, industry. You mean when you say livestock, cattle farm? Cattle, exactly, cattle.

Many parts of the Amazon are now reaching a tipping point, so a point of no return. There are some areas of the Amazon that are the risk of becoming savannas, for example, getting drier and drier. So given all of these impacts, the forest is losing its capacity to sequestrate carbon dioxide, methane, and other greenhouse gases, as it used to be several years ago. So that's a true but sad story. I want to ask you about U.S. policy, since U.S. is so important in the world, the historically largest greenhouse gas emitter, and President Trump relationship with autocratic leaders. like Bolsonaro, who's now it looks like about to go to prison, the former president, often called

the Trump of the tropics. But it's interesting how Trump has increased massively tariffs on Brazil unless they free and drop the case against Bolsonaro, who, like Trump, attempted to overthrow the elections in Bolsonaro's case in Brazil and Trump's case in the United States in 2020. So you have Brazil, a major oil producer in the world. He focuses on that. He focuses on Colombia, also a major producer in Venezuela, as he bombs boat after boat without providing evidence that they are narco-terrorists on these boats. And has just said he wants to attack Nigeria, the largest oil producer in Africa,

that the attack would be vicious and sweet, very unclear what that's about. But if you can talk about Brazil's place in the world is what is it the fifth largest oil-producing nation and also the effect of Trump's policies, U.S. policy on Brazil and what Trump's pushing for. Of course, yeah. Well, Brazil and U.S. have a very long story of relationships. They are still big partners, economic. There's lots of relationships between the two countries. Of course, with the change. of governments in the US and Brazil, right? First we have Biden to Trump, then the opposites happen in Brazil, from Bolsonaro to Lula. The relationship now is a bit shaken, but in the last weeks, the relationship is being improving

after the head is meeting in the UN summit in September, so the US is reducing now some tariffs in Brazil for some products. But, of course, the relationship now with the U.S., having a climate denier leading the country, we know that the interest is all about money, power, control. So Brazil, as other countries, as you mentioned, in Latin America, also Nigeria, have a huge amount of resources, including oil, but also including the rare earth minerals, the critical minerals, so needed for the energy transition.

So we know that the U.S. is looking into all of that. And we hope that Brazil can continue to stay firm, negotiate, and do what's best for the country, for the interest of its own citizens, and not see to the pressure from a climate denier. Very quickly, what are you hoping to see from this COP 30 summit? For us, we hope to see in this COP a roadmap to transition away from fossil fuels. That would be the best outcome from this COP, as climate change has been caused by force. fossil fuels, a roadmap saying how we will transition away from fossil fuels, would be the best outcome from this COP. And also, if you get some quality and direct finance, public finance going to the communities

more affected by climate change, a deal on that will also be critical for us. The presence of lobbyists here, more than a thousand well over. Yeah, so it's not a surprise for us that this COP has the highest presence ever of fossil fuel lobbyists, 1,600, almost 20% higher than it was in Baku. And it's the second largest delegation of COP30, right? Brazil is the biggest one with about 3,000 people. And the second largest delegation, it's the fossil fuel lobbies, which is, yeah, it's awful. Well, I want to thank Elon Zugman, Brazilian climate activist, 350.org's regional head for Latin America and the Caribbean, based in

southern Brazil. Coming up, we speak to a leading indigenous activist from Ecuador. In fact, here at the COP 30, despite the major protests against the lobbyists, against the fossil fuel countries leading policymaking, there's also the largest indigenous presence. Stay with us. Haleigh Aweha Waha'u'll wha'uhae Ha hae hae hae

Ha'i wsun kawai, walaeu ka up at peweeco ah peed pewee eh E.

And president of our w'amomé and president of our Amo Ape t'iweko Ohah Apeat peat pewe go

Ohah ah ahua'ah I'm ha ha hae hae hae wara-rallah

wah ah hae hae ha hae hae ha

ha a pewee a one nico wah wah ahurah

A song by the Jada'ata people of Brazil performed at the COP 30 opening ceremony last week. This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org, the War and Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman. We're broadcasting from Belem, Brazil, the gateway to the island. Amazon, where the UN climate summit is taking place. The answer is us. That was the slogan as hundreds of indigenous leaders from the Amazon across the region gathered in the streets of Belam Monday, outside the UN Climate Summit venue where delegates from over 190 countries continue negotiations. These are some of the voices from the streets of Belam.

We are here fighting for our land, for our wildlife, for our birds that are facing extinction. We are here at this cop for results. We ask that Brazilian President Lula come and demarcate the land so that the illegal miners don't enter our land and our river. We are here claiming our rights, defending our forests, defending our animals, where we have survived all these years. We need to be recognized by the world as great guardians of the forest. As indigenous protests continue here in Belém, the government of Brazil's announced a creation of 10 new indigenous territories in response to demands from protesters. There are more than 900 indigenous delegates accredited here at COP90, the highest number at any UN climate summit.

We're joined now by Diana Chavez. She is a member of the Pastaza-Kichwa Nation, head of international affairs and organizations for Pakiru, which is based in Ecuador's Amazon, arrived in Belem three weeks ago. Can you talk about where you're from in Ecuador? and despite the fact that there is a massive number of fossil fuel lobbyists, this is also the gathering of the largest number of indigenous people since the comp began 30 years ago. Welcome, Deanna. Thank you so much for having me.

Thank you, everyone, for listen to us. Yes, I have been here for three weeks. I'm from Ecuador, from the Amazon region in Ecuador, specifically from the province of Pastasa, where there are seven indigenous. groups living there that we already declare our land or territory is free from oil, extraction, any extractic activities. So it has been, we know that at least 500 indigenous people from all over the world have

accreditation to come here to the blue zone because it's kind of hard to come in and there is a green zone where more indigenous people are. For example, you're talking about areas of the UN summit where people are, where people have to have special passes to come in? Yes, yeah. We have special passes and you can come in and at least listen to the negotiations, listen while the parties are talking about just transition, for example. As an indigenous people and part of the indigenous caucus,

we are seeing the just transition program that if it's not just transition if our territories are going to be sons of sacrifice, for example. Or if countries that talk here international talking about, about how they are doing things to fight climate change, but in their countries have an agenda that promotes oil or mining extraction, for example. Can you talk about what it means that indigenous organizations are pushing for their land rights to be incorporated as national climate targets? What we're saying is that the demarcation of oil lands is a way to preserve and fight against

climate change. It's a mechanism. So we want that to be part of the agenda to fight climate change because it's not recognized, it's not part of the programming to invest in the money to the marcation of land. So there are so many groups of indigenous people that doesn't have legal recognition of their land. In Ecuador we have it, but there are so many other indigenous groups that don't have it. So that's why we're fighting for that. Because we have seen now, and there is data that shows that all of the indigenous territories here

in the Amazon region are well-preserved, have the most biodiversity, and we are saving the world. The Amazon Basin, it's saving the world right now because we have the rivers, the biodiversity, in keeping with the carbon dioxide, for example,

we capture or forests are capturing. So that's why we have in these conversations about carbon bonds, about the funds to finance, chains, for example. Can you talk about how human rights intersects with indigenous and environmental rights? I mean, land protectors, particularly indigenous protectors, have been the hardest hit, the most killed. It is so dangerous to be an environmentalist in the indigenous community today. Yeah. So, yes, thank you for saying that. It's hard. Like, for example,

in Ecuador or indigenous leaders have been criminalized, and there has created some laws that can target our people and be accused of terrorism, for example. Here at the COP, what we're saying is we're requesting in every part of every program that the parties are talking to recognize and respect the free prior and informing consent and to end the persecution of our land defenders, for example. And you talk about the policies of Neboa in Ecuador, of Millet in Argentina, who Trump is bailing out now to the tune of $20 billion, and particularly their policies around indigenous people and climate.

Yeah, looks like something is happening here in South America. There is an agenda behind these governments, this right that comes from the right. wing. For example, we see that when Novoa, the president of the Ecuador, in this year he passed around five laws, which one behind a door. So it was very hard to keep up, even for organizations that were in human rights, to keep up and say something or have a meeting with the committees that were in charge of this law. So this law were to protect, and having released to protect the government, to help them, to help them, to have this agenda for oil extraction, for mining, for example, but it's against our lands,

for example, and many of these laws have articles that said, for example, that if you oppose to mining, or your organization can be closed for four years and you've lost the religious representation. So we need to inform this to the people, and we need to let them know that something is happening in Ecuador. This agenda of these governments that are from the right win. It's really against indigenous rights. Deanna Chavez, we also want to ask you about the vote that just took place on Sunday, the referendum. Voters have rejected the proposed return of foreign military bases, including those operated by the United States. About two-thirds of votes cast in Sunday's

election opposed the ballot measure backed by President Danielle Naboa, an ally of President Trump. Voters also rejected Neboa's attempts to rewrite the constitution to weaken labor and environmental standards. Yes. People, I'm so happy, so happy I was crying on Sunday that we won. The people in Ecuador said four times no. It was a clear rejection to this imposed decision. And I would like to mention that this was a victory, a dignity of our lives. This was for the people of Inbabura, the indigenous people from Inbaura, but because they were fighting a resistance for almost one month against the government,

we have a march over there. And the results of this referendum shows that at least this goes for the people that were killed during the prostitics. And I would like to say that also this shows how people are realizing the agenda of this government. And also people want peace, real peace, not laws that says that they are going to talk about security, but doesn't show what are the plans to fight against illegal mining, for example. So the people of the Aquarian was wise, and we both know and we won now. The rights of nature are staying. We are going to be Ecuador is going to be one of the examples,

how you can write a law for the rights of nature and how you can keep with the collective rights of the indigenous people. Can you talk about the markings, your tattoos, and their significance, and also the meaning of your beautiful necklace and earrings? Okay. Let me just say that we, I have in here for three weeks walking and talking with indigenous cocos. We, all the indigenous people from all over the world, the seven social cultural regions. We met, we talked, and we have conversations. And we see that as indigenous people we can have a consensus and we, and it's hard to see how in the countries, the parties cannot get a consensus. So at least we're showing because there is one thing that we are together and we're joined is our land.

So we're fighting to keep our territories in that way. And since I'm from the Amazon region, of course we use some ornaments that comes from the forest. And those are the feathers on some birds, the toucan. And these red things are seeds that help us to protect us from bad bites, for example. And, of course, I'm using my face, it's paint with Wittu. That's what we call it in Kichua. That protects us also. If we are going to the war, for example, this is a way to scare our enemies.

Finally, I wanted to ask you about California and your connection to it. California, the world's fourth largest economy, a top importer of Amazon oil, particularly from Ecuador. How has this impacted the indigenous people of the Amazon? And talk about the campaign, California lawmakers seeking to curb imports from the Amazon. There was a large group of California legislators here. Thank you. around two months ago maybe we were able to go to California

some of our representatives and the Waurani people also, we were there. I really appreciate that the Congress from California, they gave us a voice and we were able to talk about what you're just saying. So I know that they released an statement asking

the government of California to check of how many the business that they're having with Ecuador and at least to stop any oil that comes from the Amazon region, which is very good. So I would like to say that about that. Well, I want to thank you so much for being with us. Diana Chavez is a member of the Pastace Ketra Nation,

head of international affairs and organizations for Pakiru, an indigenous organization based in Ecuador's Amazon. Coming up, Kumi Naidu, the longtime South African activist, former head of Greenpeace and amnesty. now the president of the Fossil Full Non-Proliferation Treaty Initiative. Stay with us. I'm kumana'a, oh, nara, and nara, and nara,

ma'an'a, yeah, kumanae, kaka, kaktoe, kumanae, konga, kakhtore kumanae, konga, konga, konga, kaka, konga, konga. Thank you. Ah, Kumbah, ah, kumana, yeah, Khamahara, ha'nobara, ha'amarae, I think I'm a manna, laura, you know,

I'mara, ma'amarae, kumanae, Bhakore, Kumanae, Maha'i Nakhore, Kumanae,

Maha'i Maha'i Gakotri, K'ma, This is democracy now. We're broadcasting from the UN Climate Summit, COP 30, from the Brazilian city of Berlin, the gateway to the Amazon. I'm Amy Goodman.

We're joined now by Kumi Naidu, the longtime South African human rights. rights and environmental justice activist, former head of Greenpeace International and Amnesty International, now president of the Fossil Fuel Non-Proliferation Treaty Initiative, a global effort to accelerate a transition to renewable energy. It's great to have you back with us, Pumi. It seems that at these UN climate summits, that's kind of the only time we get to talk right now or see each other in person. Can you talk about the significance of this moment when it comes to the climate catastrophe in the world? So the reality is the science told us in Paris that we need to be below 1.5 degrees. We are already pushing there.

We are seeing that there is a big disconnect between the words that political and business leaders say and what actions happened on the ground. So for the last week, let's just have a quick recap what's happening. So one, we see that there's absolute corporate capture here again. There was 1,600 fossil fuel lobbyists. And even though it's a struggle to get the F word said here, but the F word we mean fossil fuels, it took 28 years before 86% of the primary cause of climate change

would be even mentioned in a COP outcome document. That's like Alcoholics Anonymous holding 28 years of conferences before they can get a backbone to mention alcohol, which is the problem. And so that's one challenge. But the big debates right now are on finance. We're really stuck on finance. So there's two blocks that have emerged. So China and the G77 are talking about a seriously funded mechanism called the Bellam Action Plan.

And the EU has put an alternative proposal on the table, which is about basically developing countries are saying this will be another talk shop with no money. So like if you take, the money is really a big, big issue here, because like you'll remember a couple of years ago, we finally got a loss and damage fund set up, right? And the governments have just committed $250 million to this fund when what is needed is $400 billion a year, right? So there's such a big... And talk about why you think.

I mean, many people in the U.S., certainly Trump himself. the president would say, why should they be putting money into these countries? So basically, first and foremost, it's in self-interest, right? That in the end, if developing nations, if the rich nations of the world don't support poor nations to transition and survive, the end result is that there will be growing emissions from the global south, which makes it worse and more forest fires in California and more intense hurricanes and tornadoes in Florida and elsewhere. But the historical issue is the facts are clear

that this old process that started 30 years ago said that we should have common and differentiated responsibilities. That all nations need to work together because this challenge is so big. But it also differentiated. It said countries like the US and Europe who decimated the forest historically that built the economies on debt, energy and the historical emissions in the atmosphere are coming from those emissions.

It's not to say that developing countries are not rising as well right now, but the historical accumulated responsibility selects us. And so basically we're not asking the rich nations for a charity year. We are asking them to pay their climate debt. It's about, you know, compensated. Well, I want to ask you about the historically number one greenhouse gas emitter, and that's the United States. On Monday, yesterday, I caught up with the Prince of the Netherlands, Jaime de Bourbon de Parme.

He's here at COP 30 as the Dutch climate envoy. I wanted to ask your thoughts on President Trump not sending a high-level delegation here and what that means. So it's truly up to any government to decide who, what conference. so I'm quite open to say, well, it's his choice not to send someone here. I think we need old parties to be constructively thinking about the future. So I would like to see a constructive US present at the COPS, as we've seen in the past as well. And for now, what it is is people are looking for new equilibrium to see who's taking what role in the absence of the US at this COP.

So we're doing that. And we're looking for new partnerships, working with new governments in different ways because of the absence of the US. you say to President Trump, who calls climate change a hoax, who says it's a con? So I would say I always use the analogy of a doctor. If I'm sick and I take temperature and I've got facts and figures that I'm sick, I can ignore it or not. So it's up to him to listen to the doctor or not, but it's wise to listen to the facts. And it's truly the science tells the story. I'm not telling it. It's not my opinion. It's just listening to

the experts that tell us that climate is a fact. Finally, can you just tell us what you announced today? So we're here with the NDC Partnership, a wonderful organization that is helping countries write the climate plans and how to implement them. And so we've added to what we're already doing for NDC Partition, another 10 million euros to work on water food nexus, to really focus on water management on these countries because climate eventually affects water. Thank you very much. Thank you as well. So that was the Prince of the Netherlands, Jaime de Bourbon Department.

who is a COP 30 as the Dutch climate envoy, speaking along with other climate ministers. I asked him about the Trump administration not sending a high-level delegation. Does that make it easier to get work done around limiting fossil fuels? Or is there a huge problem with that? What do you think? And also, President Trump's saying that climate change is a hoax? I think the position that the U.S. administration is currently taking is not in the interest of the United States and its people. It's not in the

interest of the world and it's not in the interest of global cooperation. However, having said that, let's be blunt about it, US participation at these cops have often been negative. They have held back progress, they have brought down ambition levels and so on. So the good news though is it's not that US people are not here and are not represented. There are lots of governors that are here. There are lots of cities, mayors that are here, the civil society here. So, you know, Gavin Newsom, for example, had a very prominent role here in the first couple of days. And we would urge the U.S. people to convince the current Republican-led administration to recognize that we need them at the table. But if they're not

here, we're going to move ahead as we're doing with the fossil fuel. So Colombia has called for a standalone diplomatic conference in April next year. After Easter, we will move to negotiate this treaty outside of the UN system as the landmine treaty was done, and then we'll bring it into the UN system for ratification. So global south countries are going to move ahead without the dominant polluters, and people should not assume that the old world order where what the US and a few rich countries do can hold. do can hold everybody back. Ideally, we want the U.S. the table, but they cannot hold us hostage forever.

We're going to try and move ahead without them. Kumi Nidu, speaking here at COP 30 last week, you said, today the leaders of the fossil fuel industry occupy the same moral equivalent position that in a different era controlled the so-called slave industry. Explain what you mean. Well, the leaders who were trading in human lives in slavery at the same political access to power as the fossil fuel industry has. They had the same ability to control the narrative by what they could spend in the media of that time as we have the same domination by the fossil

fuel industry to confuse people about the urgency of the situation. And basically, ethically, trading in human lives then and now was never morally acceptable. banking on a energy system that is killing people, that threatens, not the planet, let's be clear, the planet will survive. This is threatening humanity's capability to survive on this planet, and people must be clear that this is being done for profit and greed, and that they are being called out now, and thankfully at this COP, the one progress and Amy, I think I met you at the Copenhagen COP for the first time in 2009. At that time, it really, Remember, you could hardly hear the world fossil fuels.

Yeah, certainly on the streets, it's all about the root cause is fossil fuels. We need to turn the tap and stop the flow of fossil fuels. So no longer can they escape what the root cause is. And I think that we will come out here because President Lula, in the first day, said, we need a fossil fuel phase-out plan coming out of this. The appetite is not there. We're still pushing. But whether we get it here or not, we certainly will push.

in April to do so in Colombia. Kumi, before we go, I want to ask you about two other issues. I mean, you are from South Africa. That's the country that brought the genocide case against Israel at the International Court of Justice. You have always lived at the intersection of human rights, also climate. And you were former head of amnesty and Greenpeace. If you can comment on what's happening now. I mean, yesterday the UN Security Council approved a U.S.

West Bank plan for so-called international stabilization force in Gaza, but you still have the human rights situation where for less than half Israel's letting of humanitarian aid come into Gaza, and people are still being killed and attacked either in Gaza or the occupied West Bank. My experience from South Africa teaches me that when those with power in context of conflicts speak about stabilization, what they are talking about often is. stabilizing injustice, stabilizing the status quo, and yeah, what we are concerned, obviously we want the peace to return as best as it was, recognizing that the Palestinian people have not lived

with peace for decades and decades. But having said that, of course we support a ceasefire and so on. But what we are concerned about is that the way this resolution potentially can be implemented, It will stabilize the occupation, stabilize militarization, stabilize the undermining of international law, which Israel more than any nation in the world has consistently done. So the eyes of the world are watching this. We don't think that people should read this resolution as fundamentally a good thing because the devil is going to be in the detail about how it is implemented. And right now, since the so-called ceasefire, we don't take comfort.

about the fact that lives are being lost, both in Gaza and also on the West Bank, as we talk. And as we talk about hunger, I want to move to Sudan. In this last minute we have, if you can talk about the humanitarian catastrophe in Sudan and your continent of Africa. So I think it's important to recognize that 12 million people, firstly, have been displaced. 12 million. Most countries in the world don't have 5, 12 million population. Secondly, what has recently happened in Darfur? the numbers are not clear but people are talking about

bodies everywhere absolute massacian ravaging through yeah we're talking about people are talking about tens of thousands of people I don't want to commit to that figure because there's a news blackout

but there's every reason to believe that that's happening and let me just say the global media has been pathetically complicit in their silence by just ignoring this. And that's why many people in Africa now saying this is not just a problem with mainstream media,

this is also a problem with white stream media, in the sense that black lives don't really seem to happen. If this was happening in North America or Europe, I mean the whole world will be seeing saturation coverage. We need RSF and the previous

army to comply to a negotiation process to stop this immediately. and the UN and the international community must raise the visibility and the energy in addressing this because history will judge this as bad as we judge Rwanda

at the end of the day. I want to thank you, Kumi Nidu for being with us. South African human rights environmental justice activist, President of the Fossil Fuel Non-Proliferation Treaty Initiative, former head of Greenpeace International, Amnesty International. Happy birthday to Yvani and Kappier. Thank you to Turina Nudora, Dennis Moornehan,

Nirmin Sheikh, Maria Tarasena, and Sam Alcoff. We're here on the ground with us in Belém, Brazil, at the U.M. COP 30. I'm Amy Goodman.