Democracy Now! Audio - Democracy Now! 2025-11-19 Wednesday

Episode Date: November 19, 2025

Democracy Now! Wednesday, November 19, 2025

From Berlin, Brazil, the gateway to the Amazon, we're at COP 30, the UN Climate Summit. This is Democracy Now. We've seen that with the presidency initiative, we now have. have a text about phasing up fossil fuel to develop a roadmap. It is very positive developments, but we have to still be very careful because the level of ambition is not sufficient. We can have something that is partial. As delegates and leaders from more than 190 countries continue negotiations, and Brazilian President

Lula is here in Belang. is mounting to include a roadmap to phase out oil, coal, and gas in the final climate text. We'll get response from Colombia's former Environment Minister, Susanna-Mohamed. Gene Sue, co-author of a report, Data Crunch, How the AI Boom Threatens to Entrench Fossil Fuels and Compromise Climate Goals, and Sudanese climate activist Lena Yassin. Whether Sudan, Senegal, are doing well, what are the gaps, what are the challenges? But indicators don't build our, don't rebuild our washed away villages. They don't fix our failed harvest.

After months of stonewalling, Congress finally votes almost unanimously to force the Justice Department to release the files on the convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. many of his survivors who were in the house gallery to watch will play some of their voices it's an honor to stand here again for something america is finally united on the immediate release of the entire epstein files in a divided nation this is one demand we all share all that and more coming up Welcome to Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org, the War and Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman. We're broadcasting from the gateway to the Amazon, from Belen, Brazil, at COP 30.

First headlines. Congress overwhelmingly passed legislation Tuesday to compel the Justice Department to release all files related to the late-convicted... sex offender, Jeffrey Epstein. In the House, the vote was near unanimous at 427 to 1, with Republican Congressman Clay Higgins of Louisiana being the only Congress member to vote no. Just hours later, the Senate unanimously passed the House bill. President Trump had opposed the bill for months, but dramatically reversed course over the weekend when he encouraged Republicans to support the measure. He's vowed to sign the bill and to law. Epstein and Trump were close friends. On Monday, Epstein's brother Mark told News Nation, quote, Jeffrey definitely had dirt

on Trump, unquote. Several Epstein survivors sitting in the House gallery cheered and embraced one another as the final vote tally was read. We'll hear from the survivors who spoke ahead of the House vote after headlines. While hosting Saudi Crown Prince Muhammad bin Salman at the White House yesterday, President Trump called for ABC's broadcast license to be revoked. After ABC News, White House correspondent Mary, Bruce asked him why he had not released the Epstein files? Mr. President, why wait for Congress to release the Epstein files? Why not just do it now?

It's not the question that I mind. It's your attitude. I think you are a terrible reporter. It's the way you ask these questions. I think the license should be taken away from ABC because your news is so fake and is so wrong. And we have a great commissioner, the chairman, who should look at that

because I think when you come in and when you're 97% negative to Trump and then Trump wins the election in a landslide, that means obviously your news is not credible. and you're not credible as a reporter. President Trump also defended Prince Muhammad bin Salman when Bruce asked about the Saudi Crown Prince's involvement in the 2018 murder of Washington Post opinion columnist Jamal Khashoggi.

As far as this gentleman is concerned, he's done a phenomenal job. You're mentioning somebody that was extremely controversial. A lot of people didn't like that gentleman. you're talking about, whether you like him or didn't like him. Things happen, but he knew nothing about it. And we can leave it at that. You don't have to embarrass our guests by asking a question like that. It's hopeless. Trump's comments contradict a U.S. intelligence report, which found Prince Mohammed bin Salman ordered Khashoggi's killing. Back in 2018, Khashoggi was lured into the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, where a 15-person team led by a

close associate of MBS, drugged, murdered, and dismembered Khashoggi with a bone saw. Following the press conference, Robert Weissman, co-president of public citizen, issued a statement saying, quote, Trump's shameful and disgusting comments about the assassination of Jamil Koshokshi cannot be separated from Trump's personal business interests with the Saudi regime. Trump and his family are receiving at a minimum tens of millions. of annually from branding deals with Saudi Arabia, payments for doing nothing more than permitting their name to be attached to Saudi projects, unquote. On Tuesday night, Trump held a black-tied dinner for Prince Mohammed bin Salman at the White

House. Dozens of CEOs attended, including Elon Musk, Amazon's Jeff Bezos, and Apple CEO, Tim Cook. Hamas and other factions inside Gaza are rejecting the U.S. back U.N. plan to place Gaza under the control of a U.S.-led board and an international stabilization force. In a statement, the Palestinian groups liken the plan to a, quote, deep international partnership in the war of extermination waged by the Israeli occupation against our people, unquote. This is Hamas spokesperson Hasam Kassam. This resolution fully adopts the Israeli position

and completely ignores the Palestinian position and the interests of our Palestinian people here in the Gaza Strip. Netanyahu does not want to continue with the ceasefire agreement, but rather wants to impose his vision on the Gaza Strip in the entire region. This comes as Israel continues to carry out

airstrikes in Gaza. Officials in Gaza say Israel's killed 279 Palestinians since the ceasefire came into effect in October. In Lebanon, Israel launched an airstrike on a Palestinian refugee camp, Ayn El-Hilwa, killing 13 people and wounding several others. Another Israeli attack targeted a vehicle in southern Lebanon, killing one person. established in 1948, Ein al-Hilwa is the largest of 12 Palestinian refugee camps and is home to at least 64,000 people. Tuesday's attack is the latest violation of Israel's ceasefire with Hezbollah, which went into effect a year ago. According to the U.N., Israel's been targeting Hezbollah in near daily attacks since the ceasefire, resulting in at least 100 civilian deaths. Local media outlets in Somalia are reporting 12 Somali civilians, including eight children,

were killed Sunday in a suspected U.S. air strike. So far this year, the U.S. is believed to have carried out nearly 100 strikes in Somalia targeting the group al-Shabaab. President Trump's voice support for U.S. attacks inside Mexico and Colombia. This comes as Trump is refusing to rule out, sending in ground troops to Venezuela. The New York Times reports Trump has also signed off on CIA plans for covert measures inside Venezuela, possibly to prepare the battlefield for a wider war. However, Trump has also reportedly reopened back-channel communications with the government of Venezuela and President Nicolas Maduro. The U.S. has recently amassed over 15,000 troops in the region and bombed over 20 boats in the Caribbean and the eastern Pacific.

The U.S. has claimed the boats were carrying drugs, but no proof has been offered. On Tuesday, Mexican President Claudia Schaenbaum responded to Trump's threats. We've said this with the State Department, with Marco Rubio, and they have understood. So much so that the understanding we have with them is one of collaboration and coordination. And the first points make very clear their respect for sovereignty, respect for our time. territoriality and that there is collaboration and coordination without subordination. Hundreds of protesters rallied in Raleigh, North Carolina Tuesday, to protest new federal immigration raids in the city. This comes as federal agents continue to target Charlotte,

where agents have arrested more than 200 immigrants since this weekend. The Department of Homeland Security has also announced plans to send 250 federal. border agents to conduct immigration sweeps in Louisiana and Mississippi. A federal court ruled that Texas cannot use its recently passed congressional map for the 26 midterm elections and will instead have to rely on a previous map from 2021. Texas Republican state legislators over the summer pushed for a new congressional map that could garner the GOP five additional house seats. In his ruling striking down the new congressional map, Trump-appointed judge Jeffrey Brown wrote,

quote, the public perception of this case is that it's about politics. To be sure, politics played a role in drawing the 2020-25 map, but it was much more than just politics. Substantial evidence shows Texas racially gerrymandered the 2025 map, unquote. Texas Attorney General can pack. been vowed to ask the U.S. Supreme Court to reverse the ruling. Texas Republican Governor Greg Abbott declared Tuesday the Council on American Islamic Relations, known as CARE, the country's largest Muslim civil rights group, a foreign terrorist organization. In a statement, Texas Governor Abbott said care's goal is, quote,

to forcibly impose Sharia law and establish Islam's mastership of the world, unquote. Abbott also designated the Muslim Brotherhood as a foreign organization and prohibited both groups from acquiring property in the U.S. Robert McCaugh, Kare's Director of Government Affairs, responded to Abbott in a letter saying, quote, you do not have the authority to unilaterally declare any Americans or American institutions terrorist groups, nor is there any basis to level the smear against our organization, unquote. The Trump administration has taken more steps to dismantle the Department of Education by shifting several key programs to other federal agencies. In one move, the Office of Elementary and Secondary Education will be transferred to the Labor Department. Becky Pringle, the President of National Education Association, criticized the moves, saying, quote,

Donald Trump and his administration chose American Education Week, a time when our nation is celebrating students, public schools, and educators to announce their elite. legal plan to further abandon students by dismantling the Department of Education, unquote. A federal judge is ruled in favor of META and against the Federal Trade Commission in an antitrust suit that claimed the social media giant is trying to establish a monopoly by buying up Instagram and WhatsApp. In his ruling, District Judge James Bosberg wrote, quote, the landscape that existed only five years ago when the FTC brought this antitrust suit has changed markedly. While at once might have made sense to partition apps and to separate markets of social networking and social media,

that wall has since broken down, unquote. Earlier this year, President Trump called for the impeachment of Judge Bozberg after he ruled against Trump's ability to invoke wartime powers to deport migrants. Brazil's Supreme Court has sentenced high-ranking military officials and a federal police officer to 24 years in prison after finding them guilty for the assassination attempt against. President Luis Anasio Lula de Silva. It allows a similar ruling back in September. It follows a similar ruling back in September against former President Jaira Bolsonaro, who was sentenced to 27 years and three months in prison

for a coup attempt against President Lula. Earlier this month, Brazil's Supreme Court unanimously rejected Bolsonaro's appeal challenging his prison sentence. And those are some of the headlines. This is Democracy Now. Democracy Now.org, The War and Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman. After months of stonewalling by House Speaker Mike Johnson, Congress finally voted Tuesday to compel the Justice Department to release the files on Jeffrey Epstein, the deceased convicted sex offender and power broker. The House vote was unanimous, except for one. That's 427 to 1 in favor of releasing the files. Republican Congressman Clay Higgins of Louisiana was alone no vote. Several survivors of Epstein's abuse were seated in the gallery during the vote and embraced, cheering when it passed. The Senate then voted unanimously to pass the House bill.

It's a stunning outcome after months of fierce opposition by President Trump and Republican Party. Trump reversed course over the weekend when he saw too many defections and said he would sign the bill. Ahead of the vote, survivors of Jeffrey Epstein's abuse held a news conference on Capitol Hill. These are some of their voices. My name is Lisa Phillips. It's an honor to stand here again for something America is finally united on. The immediate release of the entire Epstein files. In a divided nation, this is one demand we all share. So today, we are launching something historic. The first national survivor-led political movement in America, nonpartisan, laser-focused on exposing the systems, the loopholes,

power structures, and silencing mechanisms that have protected predators for far too long. We are stepping directly into the halls of power, into the political arena. We will help rewrite law. that failed us and built protections for our nation's children together targeted by sexual exploitation together today survivors begin our own fight the survivor revolution and we intend to change this nation for the better hello everybody I am Jenna Lisa Jones this was me at 14 years old I was a child I was a child I I was in ninth grade, I was hopeful for life and what the future had held for me.

He stole a lot for me by at 14. Sexual abuse is not a Republican issue. This, it is not a, or a democratic issue. It is not a, it is also not a hoax. We are here as American survivors of a man who used his wealth and power to hurt young girls and women. The world should see the fire. to know who Jeffrey Epstein was and how the system catered to him and failed us. Emotionally, this process has been distressing.

First, the administration said it would release everything and applauded President Trump for that. Then it fought to release nothing. Good morning. My name is Annie Farmer, and this is a photo of me and my sister Maria Farmer. Around the time I was 16 and she was 25. That's how old we were when we were abused by Epstein and Maxwell. This is not an issue of a few corrupt Democrats or a few corrupt Republicans. This is a case of institutional betrayal.

Because these crimes were not properly investigated, so many more girls and women were harmed. My sister, because of her bravery, was repeatedly threatened and lived in fear with dire consequences for her health and her career. 30 years later, even as oceans of allegations and obvious truths have emerged, the government has still not chosen transparency. This is why we have all come together as one united voice to demand the release of all the Epstein files and to finally bring the truth out of the shadows. Annie Farmer's sister, Mary Farmer, first reported Jeffrey Epstein's abuse to the FBI in 1996, nearly 30 years ago, the survivors of Epstein and Guillain Maxwell's abuse were speaking

at a Capitol Hill news conference ahead of the House and Senate votes to force the DOJ to release the Epstein files, unanimous in the Senate, only one dissenting vote in the House. This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org. We're broadcasting from the UN climate summit, that's COP 30, from the Brazilian city of Belém, the gateway to the Amazon. I'm Amy Goodman. As delegates and leaders representing more than 190 countries continue negotiations, the Brazilian presidency is expected to release a new draft text today, addressing some of the most pressing climate demands, including financing and the transition away from fossil fuels. Brazilian President Luis Nasia Lula de Silva is in Belem today as pressures mounting to include roadmap to phase out, oil, coal, and gas, and the final climate texts. He may pass us at any moment.

More than 80 countries from Africa, Latin America, Asia, and the Pacific, as well as European Union member states and the United Kingdom, have joined those coals with Colombia leading the efforts. This all comes as frustration is mounting over the refusal by wealthier nations than some of the world's worst polluters to properly fund climate adaptation efforts for global South countries most impacted by the climate crisis, but those that did not cause it. We're now joined by Sasanah Muhammad, long-time environmentalists. She served as Columbia's Minister of Environment and Sustainable Development from 2022 to this year. She was also the president of last year's United Nations Biodiversity Conference held in Cali, Columbia. She is of Palestinian descent. We welcome you back to democracy now, Susanna. We have spoken you at past COPS.

You were the main climate negotiator at 1.4 Colombia. if you can initiate this global audience into what COP means, even that, the conference of parties 30, 30 years, why this is so important and what's happening today with the Brazilian president here and what you're seeing in the texts that have been presented. Thank you so much, Amy, and I'm so glad to be here again this year. well, it's very important to let the audience understand what this environment means. COP is the conference of the parties, who are the parties, and the parties to what? The parties are the countries of the world that have subscribed the Convention on Climate Change.

And this convention is an international treaty signed by the countries to be able to control and establish the climate. Because we knew since 30 years ago, and that's why it's called COP 30, because it's the 30th time that the parties meet to try to solve this issue. But what's the reality? You have faced it in the United States during these years that things are getting out of control, the climate, and the emissions, the CO2 emissions that produce this climate crisis, are increasing, not decreasing, and also that the climate is becoming more wild, if we can say in simple words, and more dangerous the situation. So this 2025 is critical because scientists said that we needed to cut emissions

by 42% compared to 2019 in 2030. But the reality is that we are in a trajectory rather than to decrease 42% to increase 16%. And rather than to stabilize the climate in 1.5, we are actually going to a trajectory to have an increase in temperature of 2.8 Celsius. And just to give your audience a dimension of what that means, we have never experienced in the last two geological eras this temperature. Humanity, since it's a species alive on planet Earth, has never experienced this temperature. We have no clue, no idea what this means. when we could see that happening at the end of this century. And who would be living there is the children that were already born in this century? So that's why this conference is the only

fora that we have internationally globally. So countries agree and take action. I'm going to ask you about what Kumi Nidu yesterday, the South African climate activist, called the F word, fossil fuels. Now, what would it mean to include the phase out of fossil fuels in the final climate text? And how is it possible that that hasn't happened before? Well, it happened for the first time in Dubai, which was actually a very interesting process because it was in the Arab world, in the United Arab Emirates. And you know that the largest reserves of oil in the world are there and the cheapest ones. So it was a big effort. that we could include that an objective is to face out fossil fuels,

which actually was not even that language. It was transition away from fossil fuels because it's a transition. But what does that mean? That we should change our source of energy. We should stop producing, extending the frontier of production, and also stop the consumption and burning of fossil fuels, and that is a whole change. So now what happens is that it has been two years since Dubai

and the Brazilian government actually gave licenses for exploration in the Amazon, in the Amazon Delta, outside in deep waters where the Amazon River comes just weeks before this conference. It's a very contradictory message because you know the Amazon is one of the pillars of climate stability. The Amazon absorbs so much CO2, and what happens when we create deforestation is that every hectare deforested emits CO2 and stops absorbing. So if we lose the Amazon, which means deforestation of around 25%, we actually lose the control of the climate. And we are in the Amazon.

This cup is in the Amazon. In 2025, five years before, we need to reach the goal to stabilize the climate. And the Brazilian government gives licenses for exploration of oil a few weeks before. So the elephant in the room is a fossil fuels. The Arab countries don't want to speak about it. Actually, they're trying to bring back the decision of Dubai and say, oh, we are. We don't feel that that's correct. was a big effort. But the good news is that yesterday, a coalition of 80 countries stood up

and said, we have to develop a pathway for the transition. We cannot leave this COP. So the elephant in the room has become now the main issue. And it has light and is now in negotiated text. And now President Lula is coming today. And Brazil is now committed that the roadmap advances. But I give you a sober fact. Right now, countries are planning to expand fossil fuel productions in 120% more than what is required to stabilize the climate at 1.5 Celsius. And for you who are seeing us out there, remember what was the year 2024. And think about, in your local area, how was the climate that year? That was the first year that we reached as an average temperature

in the planet 1.5 Celsius. I remember in my country, 400 municipalities out of 1,100 were without water. The largest city, Bogota, went into rationalizing water for one year. We had fires, we have drought, and it was actually really, that if that's going to be the new reality, I cannot imagine what is with 2.8. And that's actually the environmental limiting we are working towards. And so, to summarize, the struggle in these copies between the fossil capital and the countries that want to continue to live on fossil fuels and the other countries that actually say,

we have to put humanity, environmental security first and save the children that were already born in this century. Susanna Mohamed, you used to be the chief negotiator on climate at the cops. You were the climate minister. So can you talk about the power of the oil lobby? I mean, we're talking about over 1,600, the largest group of lobbyists ever. Also, there are 900 indigenous representatives. That is the largest group of indigenous representation. So talk about the balance and also our indigenous demands being considered here.

I mean, indigenous leaders shut down this cop on Friday for hours. It's exactly, I think that's the picture of the 21st century. You want to summarize this issue in one picture is the picture of the woman from the Amazon, the indigenous woman, blocking the entrance of the cop. And on the other side of the fence, the military protection. the fortress of the cop. What fortress are you protecting? You are protecting the fossil fuel capitalists. That's why you're protecting.

And actually, the influence in these rooms of the fossil fuel lobby is huge. That comes in two forms. Petro states that have, even Colombia has its own oil state company, but also private companies that have their lobbyists. And it becomes a battle

of actually the fossil fuel capital resisting change. This is what COP has become. This is what is about now. Resisting the change from the fossil fuel capital and outside the fence of the COP, outside the military. Not 900.

900 were the ones that got accredited. We have 4,000 indigenous peoples from all the Amazon that came during 25 days by boat through the Amazon River from all the communities, from the eight countries of the Amazon. they call the indigenous camp. They are there outside. These people, they do have the knowledge to save the planet. They do have the knowledge to save the Amazon. And we are not talking about

that here. So that's why on Tuesday, actually, they came by force. And they took over these corridors. And that presence of what I call the blood, the sweat, the tears of the people at the front lines of the climate crisis is what we need inside this room. And unfortunately, Although, we have to say, it's much better in Brazil than when we had the COP in Egypt in the United Arab Emirates and Azerbaijan, which we didn't even were able to do the protest in the street, the march of climate. But that's actually the thing, the forces in the 21st century. The people at the front lines again, the fossil fuel capital.

We only have a minute to go, but I wanted to ask you two quick questions. The significance of President Trump, for the first time the United States, the United States, United States not sending a high-level delegation. Do you actually think that's good or bad in terms of how they influence the outcome? And also, you are a Colombian of Palestinian descent and your thoughts right now on what's happening in Gaza. Yes, on the first one, it's absolutely terrible. The United States is not here. It's the second biggest polluter in the world. And we, to be able, I mean, this is the problem. This problem cannot be solved by single country. It has to be the global community together. But the worst thing is the

escalation of the conflict. Before it used to be blocking here, as some countries are doing. But now it's with military action. So having the U.S. military deployment of military forces to the Caribbean had killed 80 Latin Americans in total impunity in the last two months, with nobody stopping that. And actually, my fear is that what the President Trump is coming for is for the oil resources of Venezuela and also the minerals of Colombia and Latin and South America. If this is going to be the escalation of conflict, we are actually in a very bad shape. That's why it will be a fantastic message from Brazil that more than 80 countries, the majority of countries say, no, we are not going to change the agenda.

because there is military bullying from any powerful country right now. And we have to secure the humanity. And on Gaza, these are not issues that are not correlated. Because they use Gaza's a laboratory, because they were able to move forward. And even President Trump declared in the Israeli party that the weapons were given by the U.S. to commit genocide. because this has happened

and the world, the United Nations nobody could stop this that's why they have now the license the green light to start moving forward to pursue whatever interest they think they want to pursue. And this is why we have to strengthen

the international community and multilateralism and also the resistance in the front lines of these issues because I tell you something. People will not allow any military power to kill them. Even the Palestinians right now with everything that has

happened are still resistant. And that's actually a lesson from all of us. Because if the defense of the environment would become a military conflict, we are already seen in Palestine what could happen in the future. I don't wish that future. I think

we can actually, humanity can do better and that we can be very proactive and productive in shifting this situation of climate crisis rather than continuing investing in arms, in armies, and in defense as the whole world is doing. So there's no money for climate, but then everybody in two seconds puts 5% of the GDP in defense.

Well, Susanna Mohamed, we're going to thank you so much for being with us. A long-time environmentalist served as Columbia's Minister of Environment and Sustainable Development from 2022 to earlier this year. also president of the 2024 UN Biodiversity Conference held in Cali, Colombia. She is of Palestinian descent. When we come back, we'll speak with Sudanese climate researcher Lini Asin, who is here at COP 30, supporting the least developed countries, the LDC group. And we'll speak with Gene Sue, co-author of the new report, Data Crunch,

how the AI boom threatens to entrench fossil fuels and compromise climate goals. We're at COP 30 in Belém, Brazil. Gateway to the Amazon. Stay with us. To be Puranca, Ah, T'amua Pek, that's your maramera, or whatever, If be furanga, A-Uranga, Alecana, Arasana,

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Ah, Tura-Ras-Rah, Sura-Ras-Rah, Sura-Ras-Rah, Sura-Rah, Sura-Rah, Sura-Rah, Sura-Rah, Sura-Rah, Sura-Rah

Sura-Sura-R-A-Kahehira-Sura-A-Kahehira-Rah Surrara, surah, shirrana, Uttarayi, hey, and a-tobarra di, eh, and the pan, ch'an-de-h, and the pah,

chas-a-a-a-hurt, so-a-ah-mah-tur-sur-sur-sur-a-chara-chur-a-hya-h. We're doing it back from the UN Climate Summit, COP 30, from the Brazilian City of Belang, the Gateway to the Amazon. I'm Amy Goodman. We're joined right now by Lina Yassine. the LDC Group, that's the least developed countries at the UN Climate Summit. She's a climate diplomacy researcher at the International Institute for Environment and Development, or IAED, in London.

She's from Sudan, previously supported the Sudanese delegation at the COP. We're going to talk to you about the crisis in Sudan in a moment. But first talk about why you're here. and as not using technical terms, or if you do, tell people what exactly you mean, whether you use words like adaptation or loss and damage. I think to the outside world, I think we can't just deal. We can't understand what they're talking about. But talk about the progress and the lack of progress at this call.

Thank you for having me, Amy. So I'm here because, like you mentioned, the least developed countries is a group of 44 countries. Those countries contributed the very least to the climate crisis. Their cumulative emissions amounts to less than 1%. Yet those countries amount into over 1 billion people are suffering the worst of the climate crisis. They are the countries that have the least amount of resources to respond to the climate crisis, including my country, Sudan.

So I'm here because we are supporting these countries in the negotiations to come up with outcomes that don't just sound great, but actually work on the ground. My focus is on adaptation. And adaptation negotiations are incredibly important because adaptation is as simple as farmers knowing how to deal with the unpredictable rainfall and the crop failure. It's as simple as communities needing to rebuild after a flood or after a cyclone. It's as simple as hospitals being able to function when the storm has cut off the electricity, when they have to deal with a cholera outbreak, malaria outbreak.

Adaptation is incredibly practical. It is water, it is housing, it is basic human safety. And how can other countries help with that? What does Sudan need, for example? The LDCs on Sudan needs finance. Unfortunately, adaptation cannot work if there's no money on the ground to actually finance it. And adaptation is fundamentally a public debt. Building infrastructure, investing in infrastructure so that countries can survive,

floods, cyclones, hurricanes, has to come from public finance. And right now, unfortunately, the finance conversation is the most uncomfortable conversation to have in the space. The UNIP GAAP report, the 2025 GAP report, has said that in order to actually finance adaptation properly, we need $310 billion per year for developing countries. Right now, developing countries are getting $26 billion. So you might have people in the United States saying, okay, Sudan suffering as are other least developed countries, it's not our fault, we need money in the United States. Why should we give money to other countries? Can you talk about the responsibility of the most polluting countries? Yes, and we can go back all the way to the Industrial Revolution, where many developed countries and wealthy countries have benefited from the exploitation of coal and fossil fuels and have built and established themselves as wealthy countries, whilst other countries did not have that chance.

So now we find ourselves in a predicament because we need to stop emitting carbon emissions and we need to start responding to the crisis, but countries like my country need to develop. So there is an element of justice and fairness where we need to be able to support those countries because right now their development is far behind the rest of the world and they need to be included in this conversation. And another reason is climate change doesn't know border. What's happening in my country, what's happening in other countries, we'll eventually get to other countries. It's a collective responsibility and we need to remember that climate change touches us all. So let me ask you about the funding cuts from USAID and how that impacts these discussions as well as funding cuts from the UK and the European Union. It's really unfortunate that we find ourselves at the time when the climate crisis is increasing, when the evidence are even more scary, we find ourselves in a situation where governments are scaling back on their budgets, on the aid budgets.

The U.S. is also leaving the Paris Agreement. This is going to be the last year where the U.S. is official. part of the Paris Agreement. So this has a big negative impact because this whole system, this negotiation is built on trust. Multilateralism can only work if everyone does their fair share and we're finding ourselves in a time where budgets are being rerouted to military spendings, even though when we talk about security and investing in national security, we should be talking about climate change. That's the biggest security that every country is facing right now. What is the just transition work program? transition is another incredibly important conversation because right now we've established

that we need to stop. Oil demand, oil needs to peak. Fossil fuels need, we need to transition away from fossil fuels. But how do we do that while ensuring no one is left behind? So the least developed countries and other developing countries are saying our development will be impacted. How do we make sure we transition to low carbon economies, green economies while ensuring our people get jobs, our people get rights and can still develop while we solve the climate crisis? And talk overall about the energy transition. Yeah, so the energy transition is another uncomfortable conversation, unfortunately, in the space. When we come here to talk about climate change, you would expect us to be talking mostly about fossil fuels,

and because the fossil fuels, the main driver of carbon emissions, but fossil fuels are rarely mentioned in the spaces. It's the word that no one wants to say, it's the elephant in the room. But, of course, it's the word on the tips of the tongues of what, the 1600 lobbyists who are here. Yes, and that's another conversation to be had. This space is highly influenced. The space has a lot of many, many lobbyists who are highly influenced in countries and governments to weaken the outcomes to slow down this process. So we need to be talking about this, but we also need to be more explicit about the fact that the time,

climate change is not waiting for us, and we can't be used in a multilateral space. the only space that our countries have to be to be to have strong outcomes and we're being told you need to you need to take a step by step incremental slow slow steps so i want to i want to shift our discussion right now to what's actually happening in sudan the u.n's humanitarian chief tom fletcher is urging immediate and unhindered access for aid agencies to the besieged city of alfasher which was recently captured by the UAE-backed RSF. That's the rapid support forces. Tens of thousands of city residents remain unaccounted for.

Last month, we spoke to Nathaniel Raymond of the Yale Humanitarian Research Lab, which has been using satellite imagery to monitor what's happened in Alfacher. Let's take a listen. We see clear evidence of house-to-house killing. as evidenced by the appearance in the street and by the berm, the earthen walls surrounding Elfosher, of objects that range from 1.3 meters to 2 meters in satellite imagery. Why that's important is the average human body, when laid on the ground horizontally, measures between 1.3 to 2 meters. Additionally, we're seeing around those objects in many cases

a peculiar red discoloration in the initial imagery collection. We believe that red discoloration can only be explained by blood, given our processing of those discolourations. They are all the same color, which is called true red. So that was Nathaniel Raymond of the Yale Humanitarian Research Lab. Linaasin, you were from Sudan. You had to leave. Many in your family have not left.

He is talking about how rare this is from satellites to see blood on the ground. What we're seeing right now is an international failure to address the biggest humanitarian crisis of our time. It's been 949 days. I count those days every morning because it's something that I cannot forget. We, Sudanese people, have been forgotten by the world. It's the biggest humanitarian crisis, but also one of the most underreported. What's happening right now with Netfashir is a disappointment to the international. by the international community. We're not addressing this enough. And unfortunately, this is

a war that is being classified by the media as a civil war. This is not a civil war. This is a war on Sudanese people. This is a proxy war funded by foreign nationals who have vested interests in Sudan's resources. And instead of doing so, through mutual beneficial collaborations, they choose to do so by funding a militia that is killing people, committing genocide. Let's talk more specifically about what I think you're referring to. The United Arab Emirates supporting the RSF, the rapid support forces. Explain what is the UAE's interest in Sudan. The UAE has a lot of interest in Sudan, and that is driven by its sources.

Sudan, and it has a big deposit of golds, and the UAE has been using the RSF militia to illegally smuggle gold out to finance the war and finance their own gold reserves. The UAE is also really interested in Sudan's agricultural lands. The UAE imports 90% of its food. So it's long-term food security is reliant on investing in agriculture outside. But instead of doing so close through cooperation, what they want to do is they want to invest in a militia that can take over the country and be able to finance their needs long-term. This is a long-term vision of taking over Sudan. And unfortunately, they chose to do so through the bloodshed of Sudanese people.

So you participated in the protest when you were there in 2019. This is a seminal moment in Sudan. Also, protests that were led by women. After the months of protests, President al-Bashir had been in power for like 30 years was overthrown. And there was tremendous hope in the country. Talk about that experience and what you would like to see now and what other countries are benefiting from the horror that has taken place in Sudan right now. The revolution in 2019 was a turning point for many of us. I grew up in a dictatorship system where I never knew that my voice could be heard.

I was always scared of being arrested just for wearing a jeans or not wearing a scarf. Growing up in a dictatorship system, I thought my life cannot be spent in Sudan. My future needs to be outside. But the 2019 revolution, which was largely led by youth and women, was a turning point for all of us. We realized that we could actually take back our country. We could rebuild our country and we could do it in a democratic way. I never voted in my life. I was looking forward to doing that as an experience,

and that was taken away from us, because even though we led one of the biggest and most successful revolutions in the history of our country, it was taken away from us just years later by a military coup, because the military also wants to be in power and this cannot let go. So this is to us is really unfortunate, because what started off as hopefully what would have been a new history for Sudan ended up in this war that we find ourselves unable to leave. And what do you hear of your family right now still in Sudan?

And do you think you can go back? I've not been back home in over two and a half years. I don't know when it's the next time I'm going to see home. I have family in Sudan that we are unable to talk to because there's no way to contact them. There's no electricity. But the reason I'm here is because all of this is happening. And as much as I feel a big disconnect,

I also know that climate change doesn't wait for peace. Whilst everything is going on in Sudan, floods are still washing away refugee camps. Farmers who don't get killed by bullets are getting killed by hunger because their crops are failing. What would be the most effective approach that the international community can take right now? The most effective approach is to start recognizing and calling this war what it is. It's not a civil war. Let's start by shifting the narrative and let's start by applying pressure.

The U.S. and other countries can apply pressure on those funding the war to stop doing so and try and achieve peace. It's really unfortunate that Sudan is not being talked about enough, and the international community is to blame for this. I want to thank you so much, Lena, for taking your time as you are here working with the least developed countries in the COP 30. Lena Yassin is a Sudanese climate researcher who is at the climate summit here in Vellem, Brazil. Up next, Data Crunch, how the AI boom threatens to entrench, and compromise climate goals back in a minute.

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We're broadcasting from the UN Climate Summit, COP 30, from the Brazilian city of Belang, the gateway to the Amazon. Among the most controversial topics here is artificial intelligence, AI. Climate groups are warning of the increasing environmental impacts of AI data centers. Meanwhile, AI advocates say artificial intelligence could help the world address the climate crisis. For more, we're joined by Gene Sue, Energy Justice Director at the Center for Biological Diversity. the co-author of Report the Center published ahead of COP 30 titled, Data Crunch, How the AI Boom Threatens to Entrench Fossil Fuels and Compromise Climate Goals. Gene, welcome to Democracy Now. Explain.

AI right now is being touted as some type of solution to the climate emergency. Even here at the COP, there have been over two dozen panels talking about how wonderful it is and how it will help with balancing the electricity, grid, which is totally valid. But what is one concern, deep concern about AI is its severe climate consequences, and no one in the official negotiations are talking about that right now. So you come from the United States. The U.S. is the biggest emitter of carbon emissions from AI, making up 45 percent of the world's emissions. Some people might be saying right now, what does AI have to do with carbon emissions? Oh, wow. So AI is an incredible, computing power. It is going to consume, and it has consumed far more electricity than current

Google searches or current algorithms. What's happening in the U.S. in particular is that we are ground zero for data center development. Around 90% of all computing goes through the United States. The scary thing about AI is that it is being primarily powered by fracked gas and increasingly coal right now in the U.S. The Trump administration has issued a ton of executive orders asking permitting reform and allowing kind of rubber stamping of data centers to get them connected to as much dirty energy as possible to fuel it. So I was just talking to Casey Camp Hornick. She is representative of the Ponca Nation in Oklahoma, and they've been fighting a Google

data center in Stillwater, Oklahoma. on. Talking to folks in Memphis, Tennessee, taking on data centers. Explain though how it works. I mean, some need what? They're talking about smart nukes, a nuclear power plant to fuel just a data center? Yes. So there are nuclear power plants that are being erected for data centers. New fossil gas plants are being built out for data centers. And these are such energy-guzzling entities that it can actually take up as much electricity as 100,000 homes in the United States. So this is a whole new set of electricity need in the U.S. that we need to address immediately. The really scary part about what's happening in the U.S. is that communities are just being so surprised and they're being completely caught flat-footed about data centers. They're using everything they have to convince their town leaders to say no.

to the incredible energy costs, but also no to the incredible water as well. Can renewables be used to power data centers? Renewables can be used to power data centers, and that is one thing we are advocating for, even in the UNF-TCC process. But I think what's really important is that that is not what is happening in the ground. Utilities make money off of building out more expensive energy. So that means they are inclined to build out fossil gas plants because that is what helps their bottom line. A recent study by the UNF triple C technology mechanism found AI can also be a

powerful tool for developing countries that are most vulnerable to the climate crisis through developing more effective early warning systems, which is so important. Of course, people will say, Jean, what are you talking about? Medicine has advanced so far with AI. So what do you see? What is your vision of the future? Do you see it including AI and how? I think the future can include the AI that actually benefits the public interest. However, that is a foil and a red herring for the vast majority of AI right now, which is actually being used on defense and militarization, things that do not necessarily benefit the public interest. What we need to do is empower communities and countries, especially in the global South, to ask what is the public benefit

that they are supposed to get from AI and weigh it very carefully against the severe cost to their climate, to their electricity, prices, and to their water. Does the COP 30 text address AI? Not yet, and our goal here is to actually make that happen. So this year, we have connected with global civil society organizations around the world to actually come together and from the ground up build a map of what AI and the fossil fuel industry is seeing from the top down

in terms of their strategy. We are working on coordinated efforts on the ground and to come back to COP next year with an ask, a clear ask of countries must discuss and disclose their data center emissions and commit to building them with renewable energy that is sustainable and not with false solutions like CCS. A question I've been putting to a lot of our guests is the significance of President Trump deciding, this is for the first time a U.S. delegation, high-level delegation, would not attend cop. What is the significance of it and him calling climate change a hoax, a green hoax, a scam? Yeah, the significance of it is that President Trump is in the world to peddle his wearers.

He is peddling natural gas, fracked gas, his coal. That is his vision of his future, and it's entirely about profiteering. What's so important about this cop is that people should celebrate the fact that that obstruction is not here and pass as fast as possible mechanisms like a fossil fuel phase-out roadmap where the U.S. is not here, but they could be bound by it later when they join. And that's the importance of this cop. We actually need a game plan to phase out fossil fuels in a funded manner. And if we can pass that here, the U.S. as the number one historic emitter and as one of the wealthiest countries in the world, will have to abide by it. when it comes back. I want to thank you so much for being with us. Gene Sue is the Energy Justice Director at the Center for Biological Diversity will link to their new report, Data Crunch,

how the AI boom threatens to entrench fossil fuels and compromise climate goals. Democracy Now is produced with Mike Burke, Renee Feldstein, Nguzder, Messiah Rhodes. I want to thank Nermin Sheikh, Maria Teresena, Dennis Moynihan, Sam Alcoff, Tarina Nadura, who are a Belin team on the ground. And also, Tamery Astu, John Hamilton, Rabbi Karen, Honey, Massoud, Safwat Nizal. Our executive director is Julie Crosby. Thank you also to Becca Staley and to our whole team on the ground in New York, John Randolph and Paul Powell and Miguel Negara. I'm Amy Goodman from Belém, Brazil.