Democracy Now! Audio - Democracy Now! 2025-11-26 Wednesday

Episode Date: November 26, 2025

Headlines for November 26, 2025; “From Apartheid to Democracy”: Sarah Leah Whitson on New Book, Israel, Gaza & Trump-MBS Meeting; Mamdani’s Affordability Agenda: Incoming NYC Deputy Mayor Dean Fuleihan on How to Make It Happen; “Policy Violence”: ICE Raids & Shredding of Social Safety Net Are Linked, Says Bishop William Barber

From New York, this is Democracy Now. So they hit North Carolina with ice raids. And they hit North Carolina at ice raids right at the same time, people are raising concerns about Medicaid and health care. and racist voter redistricting. And some people think that that means what we have to do is go to the ice raids and forget about the other thing. But what we know in this movement is it all connects. Protest are continuing in North Carolina

after federal agents arrest at least 370 people in immigration raids. We'll speak to Bishop William Barber. We'll also talk to Dean Fulahan, who's been picked by New York mayor-elect Zer on Mondani to serve as deputy mayor. I'm grateful to him for returning to public service, and I know he has chosen to do so because he believes in our administration's ability

to deliver universal child care, making the slowest buses in America fast and free and freezing the rent for more than 2 million rent-stabilized tenants in this city. We'll look at how Mamdani plans to fund and pull off his affordability agenda as mayor of New York, and we'll talk to Sarah Lee Whitson, co-author of the new book from apartheid to democracy, a blueprint for peace in Israel, Palestine. All that and more coming up.

Welcome to DemocracyNow, DemocracyNow.org, the War and Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman. The United Nations says Israel's war on Gaza has created a human-made abyss that will cost more than $70 billion in reconstruction over several decades. According to the U.N. report, from 23 to 2024, Gaza's economy contracted by 87 percent, leaving a gross domestic product per capita at $161 among the lowest in the world. This comes as Israel repeatedly violates the U.S. brokered ceasefire. At least 342 Palestinians have been killed.

since the start of the truce on October 10. Meanwhile, a new study from the Max Planck Institute for Demographic Research in Germany says the death toll in Gaza likely exceeds 100,000 people. That's higher than the Palestinian Health Ministries' count of 69,733 people killed by Israel. According to the study, life expectancy in Gaza fell by 44% in 2023 and 47% in 2024, compared with what it would have been without the war, equivalent to losses of 34.4 and 36.4 years, respectively, unquote. Meanwhile, Israel says it's received another set of human remains from Hamas and Gaza, but it's still not clear if they belong to one of the three remaining hostages. This comes as aid agencies are warning the rainy winter months in Gaza are worsening. The humanitarian situation as officials are scrambling to mitigate the flooding.

Nearly all of Gaza's 2 million residents are displaced and forced into tents or shelters with no proper sewage facilities. Palestinians are forced to dig suss pots for toilets near their tents that are now overflowing with heavy rainfall. Inside the tent, children are tripping and falling. There are illnesses everywhere. Look, we're getting sick. Look at the pot. I'm collecting the water so my children won't get sick.

Do you see? I am taking the water out of my tent so my children won't get sick. All of this causes disease and spreads bacteria. Look at the hole in the ground. See how they fall and sink into the water? In the occupied West Bank, human rights groups are calling on Israel to release Palestinian journalist and activist Eman Greib, after he was arrested on November 17th and held in communicato for days. Israel now plans to hold him under administrative detention without charge or trial. He was reportedly hospitalized after he was transferred from Israeli military custody to the prison system, raising fears he was subjected to torture.

like many other Palestinian prisoners. Brazil's former far-right president, J. Ear, Bolsonaro, has started serving his 27-year-year and three-month prison sentence for plotting a coup against Brazil's current president, Luis Anasio Lula de Silva. During his hearing on Sunday, Bolsonaro blamed medicine-induced paranoia that led him to tamper with his ankle monitor while he was under house arrest. Back in September, the Brazilian Supreme Court convicted Bolsonaro and his allies of trying to overturn. in the results of the 2022 election and assassinate President Lula before he took office. A week after Lula was sworn in, thousands of Bolsonaro supporters storm government buildings in the capital of Brasilia. About 1,500 people were arrested.

President Trump said he's sending his envoy, Steve Wittkoff, to Moscow next week to meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin. This comes as Bloomberg published the transcript of an October 14th phone call in which Whitkoff appeared to advise Udy Ushikov, Putin's foreign policy advisor, on how to appeal to President Trump, saying, quote, congratulate the president on this achievement and that you respect that he's a man of peace, unquote. Wikov also suggested Putin call Trump ahead of the White House visit by Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, a conversation that allowed Putin to persuade Trump against giving Kiv-Tomahruz missiles. Trump followed Putin's advice and revoked the author of the missile.

to Ukraine when he met with Zelensky in the White House. The leaked call comes just days after the U.S. presented a 28-point peace plan to end the war in Ukraine, largely reflecting Russian positions. Louisiana's Surgeon General, Dr. Ralph Abraham, a skeptic of COVID-19 vaccines who halted the state's mass inoculation campaign, has been tapped to serve a second in command at the Centers for Disease and Control and Prevention. Dr. Abraham has been a vocal supporter of Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., and has said he would support investigating the debunk link between vaccines and autism. Soon after he was named Louisiana Surgeon General last year, Dr. Abraham banned all vaccine promotion and events by the state's health department.

Later that year, Louisiana recorded the worst outbreak of whooping cough in Louisiana in 35 years. In the Louisiana state legislature, Dr. Abraham backed a bill banning fluoride in public water systems and another bill pushing ivermectin to treat COVID, which has been widely discredited. Dr. Narav Shah, who served in the CDC under the Biden administration, said Dr. Abraham, quote, gives Secretary Kennedy some scientific and medical cover for their odious and unscientific beliefs, unquote. The FBI is investigating the six congressional Democrats who filmed a video message, urging members of the military to refuse to carry out unlawful orders by the Trump administration. In a joint statement, Democratic Congress members Jason Crowe of Colorado, Maggie Goodlander of New Hampshire, as well as Chris Delizio and Chrissy Hulan of Pennsylvania, wrote, quote, President Trump's using the FBI as a tool to intimidate and harass members of Congress.

Yesterday, the FBI contacted the House and Senate sergeants at arms, requesting interviews. No amount of intimidation or harassment will ever stop us from doing our jobs and honoring our Constitution, they said. Separately, the Pentagon announced it'll investigate Democratic Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona, who is also featured in the video for, quote, serious allegations of misconduct, unquote. Senator Kelly, a former Navy pilot, could be recalled to active duty, for a possible court-martial. Senator Kelly is a former astronaut who spent 50 days in space and is married to Gabby Giffords,

who was shot in a head in a mass shooting in Tucson in 2011. An Iranian academic at the University of Oklahoma has been released from an ICE jail three days after he was taken into custody by federal authorities at an airport in Oklahoma City. Bahid Abidini was flying back after attending a Middle East Studies Association conference in Washington, D.C.

He's an assistant professor in Iranian studies and has an H-1B visa to work in the United States. It's unclear why he was detained. The Trump administration has been known to target international students and scholars as part of its immigration crackdown. Thousands of immigrants could be eligible to bond hearings after a federal judge in California ruled U.S. authorities cannot indefinitely. detain them. U.S. District Judge Sunshine Sykes said Trump's denial of bond hearings is illegal. Her ruling will have a nationwide impact for immigrants who are subjected to the mandatory detention policy while they fight their cases in court. In related news, the Justice Department has admitted it was Homeland Security Secretary Christy Noam, who made the decision

to deport a group of Venezuelan men to the notorious Secott megaprizen complex in El Salvador, ignoring a judge's order to keep them in custody in the United States. The disclosure came in response to demands by U.S. District Judge James Bosberg that the Trump administration named the officials involved in the controversial removal operation as he's resumed a criminal contempt inquiry into whether Trump officials violate his March order to halt the deportation flights of Venezuelan immigrants to El Salvador. Among those who reportedly advised Noem to ignore Bozberg's orders were Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche, President Trump's former private attorney, and then principal associate deputy attorney

general, Emil Beauvais. During her visit to Seikot in March, Nome posed in front of an over-crapher cell of detained men. They were shirtless, lined up behind her. Several of the Venezuelans sent to Seikot by the Trump administration, who've since been released, described being tortured as well as sexually and physically abused by guards. David Huerta, head of service employees International Union, California, the state's largest union, has pleaded not guilty to a misdemeanor after he was arrested and accused of obstinate. an ice raid in Los Angeles in June. Prosecutors had initially charged him with a felony,

which would have carried a maximum sentence of six years in prison if convicted. David Huerta spoke outside court on Tuesday. These charges are baseless. They're in an attempt to silence anyone who dares to speak out, organize or demand justice. I will not be silenced. I look forward to presenting my case and be in a case. exonerated. I will continue to stand with you until every worker and every family is safe

from raids, separation, and fear, and our constitutional rights are protected. In Thailand, catastrophic flooding in the south of the country has killed 33 people and displaced more than 2 million people in the past week. The Thai military sent troops, helicopters, and boats to rescue stranded people, some of whom are trafficking. on roofs and clinging to electrical wires to stay above the flooding. Experts say this year's monsoon season has been heavier than usual in Southeast Asia due to climate change. To see all our coverage of the UN Climate Summit in the Amazon, in Belem, Brazil, you can go to Democracy Now.org.

In Nigeria, President Bola Tunbu said that all 24 schoolgirls kidnapped last week in northwest Nigeria have been rescued. More than 300 students and staff from a Catholic boarding school were abducted last Friday. Fifty of the kidnapped students managed to escape over the weekend. This is 13-year-old Stephen Samuel, who escaped the gunmen. I run. He did not see me. I'm here I run. I start going. I don't know where I should follow. I don't know the place that I can follow. But I just... I just... just describe the road that we followed before. I'm going. I'm going. We met with one of our neighbor here.

One of our neighbor here. I saw me. I know him. He knows me. He knows me. I now carry me to their house. And I gave me clothes away. I now bring me to my house. President Trump yesterday turned the annual Thanksgiving holiday turkey pardon into a campaign-style rant against his political enemies and fat-shamed Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker. President Trump also again vowed to send federal troops to Chicago. The mayor is incompetent and the governor is a big fat slob. He ought to invite us in, say, please make Chicago safe. We're going to lose a great city if we don't do it quickly.

And President Trump is reportedly considering a proposal to extend health insurance subsidies under the Affordable Care Act. Divisions over extending the health care subsidies were at the heart of the 43-day federal government shutdown, the longest in U.S. history, with Democrats, insisting on continuing the subsidies, millions of people in the U.S. face spiking health care costs when the tax credits expire at the end of this year. On Monday, Bishop William Barber gave a eulogy in Raleigh, North Carolina, decrying Trump's cuts to health care, public health funding, and other essential government programs. Before they ever passed this bill, 87 million people didn't have health care or were uninsured. Before they ever passed this bill, there were 140 million people who were poor and low wealth.

Before they ever passed this bill, 800 people were dying a day from poverty. We were already in crisis before they passed a bill, and this bill adds to the crisis and destroys more lines. Bishop William Barber will join us later in the broadcast to talk about health care and ice raids in North Carolina. after federal agents arrested 370 people in immigration raids. And those are some of the headlines. This is DemocracyNow. DemocracyNow.org, the War and Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman in New York, joined by Democracy Now's Juan Gonzalez in Chicago.

Hi, Juan. Hi, Amy, and welcome to all of our listers and viewers across the country and around the world. We turn now to the Middle East. as Israel continues to carry out a tax in Gaza. Since the U.S. brokered ceasefire went into effect, Israel's killed more than 342 civilians there, including 67 children. In related news, Axios is reporting President Trump

and Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman had a heated discussion last week about Israel when the two met at the White House. Trump was pushing for Saudi Arabia to join the Abraham Accords and normalized relations with Israel, but the Saudi Crown Prince refused. To talk about all of this and more, we're joined by Sarah Lee Whitson, the executive director of Dawn, an organization working to reform U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East. She's co-author of the new book, From A Partate to Democracy, a blueprint for peace in Israel, Palestine.

Before we talk about Gaza, Sarah Le, I'm wondering if you can talk about this meeting at the White House between President Trump and Muhammad bin Salman. In a moment, we are going to turn to Prince Mohammed bin Salman in the White House sitting next to President Trump. He was questioned by ABC News White House correspondent Mary Bruce about his involvement. in the 2018 murder of Washington Post opinion columnist Jamal Khashoggi. After condemning ABC as fake news, Trump answered by defending the crown prince. This is what he said. As far as this gentleman is concerned, he's done a phenomenal job. You're mentioning somebody that was extremely controversial.

A lot of people didn't like that gentleman that you're talking about, whether you like him or didn't like him. things happened, but he knew nothing about it. And we can leave it at that. You don't have to embarrass our guests by asking a question like that. Trump's comments contradict a U.S. intelligence report, which found Prince Mohammed bin Salman ordered Khashoggi's killing. In 2018, Khashoggi was lured into the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, where a 15-person team, led by a close associate of MBS, drugged, murdered, and dismembered Khashogshi with a bone.

saw. You've been closely following and involved with this case, Sarah Lee Whitson. If you can comment on this meeting. Well, the meeting managed to bring back into the spotlight, the grim reality, which is the man sitting in the White House next to President Trump, is a murder. A murder who our own intelligence officials verified had ordered the gruesome torture, dismemberment of Jamal Khashoggi because he had been a vocal critic of Saudi Arabia and Muhammad bin Salman. Really, the words that President Trump used to dismiss this killing as somehow something acceptable because Jamal may have been controversial or disliked, the notion that, in fact,

refuting the findings of our own intelligence agencies, and frankly, everybody else who had been following the matter that Muhammad bin Salman ordered this killing was a grave disrespect to our own intelligence agencies, but also a shocking assault on our own media, effectively telling us, telling the media, telling the journalist to shut up and not ask embarrassing questions. Obviously, that's the job of the media. The job of the media is to put on the spotlight, the issues that politicians would rather we look away from. But, And Muhammad bin Salman and President Trump reminded us all that in their view, it's okay if we ignore the facts, if it's okay if we look the other way. And if Muhammad bin Salman is going to come with gifts of $600 billion for the U.S. economy, we should all just shut up and take it.

And Sarah Lee, which said, this visit of MBS to the United States comes, obviously, as Trump's family is conducting all of this business, with Saudi Arabia. Could you talk about this, for instance, the black-tide dinner for MBS at the White House that was attended by all of these CEOs, Elon Musk, Amazon's Jeff Bezos, and Apple's Tim Cook. Well, talk about the Trump business interests in that country. Sure. Trump's family have had business interests in Saudi Arabia that they have dramatically expanded since the first Trump administration, as folks will recall just a few weeks or months after

leaving office, Muhammad bin Salman invested $2 billion in Jared Kushner's startup investment fund and was the sole investor through the public investment fund in this fund. He gave Stephen Manuchin, the former U.S. Secretary of Treasury, a billion dollars just after he left office. And now with the return of the Trump administration, you know, it's been, you know, a hog fest of investments by the Trump family, including plans to build new Trump resorts in Saudi Arabia, including individuals, Trump's sons, Trump's company, which he has supposedly disinvested himself from, making massive investments in Saudi Arabia. But the rot goes very deep and very wide, because this is not just a problem of Republican. and the Trump administration, this Saudi influence, Saudi purchase of former U.S. officials, over 200 former U.S. military officials now on the payroll of Saudi Arabia goes back years, and it's a rot that is deep and expanding.

What is dramatically different is the massive investment of Saudi Arabia, the public investment fund controlled by Muhammad bin Salman, in nearly all aspects of the American economy, because the strategy of Saudi Arabia is a strategic deployment of capital to buy influence and control, to win over U.S. policy by buying the policymakers, to win over U.S. businesses, by buying over U.S. businesses, and paid for by the American people because what Muhammad bin Salman wants is a security guarantee from the United States. He came close to getting that. President Trump still hasn't delivered that because of this dispute over normalization. with Israel. But effectively, this is the U.S. government promising to deploy American men and women soldiers to defend the Saudi crown prince, to defend the royal family in exchange for

profits for U.S. companies, U.S. businesses, and U.S. officials. And you mentioned normalization with Israel. Axios is reporting that in the Tuesday meeting between Trump and MBS, this became kind of a fraught discussion on when it turned to the Abraham Accords and establishing relations with Israel. Could you talk about that as well? Saudi Arabia and Muhammad bin Salman have been very clear that they will not sign a normalization agreement with Israel until there's an actual, detailed, credible pathway for Palestinian statehood.

I think President Trump thought that the vague illusory language of the peace plan, the so-called peace plan that he's put forward, that is now the basis of the U.N. Security Council resolution would be enough to paper over the actual absence of any kind of a plan for Palestinian statehood. But the Saudis didn't buy it. And the Saudi leadership has made clear that even Muhammad bin Salman, the absolute dictator of Saudi Arabia, cannot withstand a challenge like this to his own population, which strongly supports the Palestinian people. Saudi Arabia was reminded, has been reminded in the wake of the genocide of Gaza, the ongoing genocide, that the Saudi people abhor the violence against Palestinians and that not even

his dictatorship can withstand normalization with Israel. It would be a threat to him and his ability to continue as dictator in Saudi Arabia, should he make peace or normalize with Israel under these circumstances. This is really the Israeli government, the extremist Israeli government, sabotaging itself, refusing to even give Muhammad bin Salman throwaway words, throwaway promises of a two-state solution because they are so strongly opposed to it that they will not make even those throwaway words and secure normalization with Saudi Arabia. I think their calculation was that they can give them a few crumbs in this peace plan and get there, but clearly the Saudis rejected that and that wasn't enough. And so as a result, no defense

agreement was concluded. But I expect that this issue is going to continue to arise because the Saudis are going to continue to develop stronger ties with China, stronger military ties with China and potentially Russia, and, of course, other European states, unless there is a commitment from the United States for a defense agreement, which is their number one priority. Sarah Lee Whitson, I wanted to talk to you about your book. The latest news in Gaza, the U.N. says Israel's war on Gaza has created a human-made abyss that will cost more than $70 billion in reconstruction over several decades. According to the U.N. report from 2023 to 24, Gaza's economy contracted 87 percent,

leaving a gross domestic product per capita at $161 among the lowest in the world. This comes as Israel repeatedly violates the U.S. brokered ceasefire. At least 342 Palestinians have been killed since the truce on October 10th. And there's a new study from the Max Planck Institute for Demographic Research in Germany. It says the death toll in Gaza likely exceeds 100,000 people way higher. than the Palestinian Health Ministry has said. If you can talk about this, in the context of the new book you just wrote

with Michael Schaefer Omerman called from apartheid to democracy, a blueprint for peace in Israel, Palestine. Well, the new UN Security Council resolution is exactly the problem that we're trying to solve, which is this failed approach to actually come up with a plan to address the real problem for Israel, Palestine, and that is Israel's illegal occupation and apartheid rule. These piecemeal efforts that treat Gaza as a separate

distinct problem, that treat the problem as Palestinians and how to rule over them, is never going to succeed. And we all know that the two-state solution process proposed by the Oslo agreements have failed. And in this void, we have the ability of Israel to maintain its permanent occupation, its permanent state of war. So what my book with Michael Omerman attempts to do is to come up with a new plan, a new blueprint for how to bring peace and security to Israel-Palestine. It includes the establishment of a transitional government, and obviously we're far away off from Israelis agreeing to that. But a transitional government with the priority of ending Israeli occupation and apartheid and creating a ground of democratic rule between the river and the sea and Israel, Palestine, that will allow the people who live there to democratically decide, as they should in anywhere on the planet, what they want their future governance to look like. But it prioritizes ending Israeli crimes of occupation and apartheid ahead of the secondary questions of governance. And it demands that those questions of governance, whether there should be one state or two states by national confederation, should only be resolved by the people who actually live in the territory of Israel-Palestine.

Sarah Lee Whitson, talk about more about the framing of what's happening both in Gaza and right now, the escalating violence. against Palestinians in the occupied West Bank as your framing of apartheid? Well, the fact of apartheid in Israel-Palestine is really the starting point of our book. We recognize that there is a one-state reality. Numerous writers have described the one-state reality, which is an apartheid reality, which is Israel as the sovereign, ruling in a fashion that constitutes apartheid. is the conclusion that has been reached by nearly every human rights organization that works on the matter, legal experts that work on the matter. And that is the problem we're trying

to end. The International Court of Justice has concluded last year that Israel's occupation is illegal and must come to an end. The UN General Assembly passed a resolution overwhelmingly in support of a resolution that called on Israel to end its illegal occupation immediately, gave Israel a deadline of September 2025, which it has breached to end its occupation and remove its settlers from occupied territory. So the central problem that we have is that Israel continues to operate its illegal occupation and by apartheid rule. Now, since the past two years, we've added to that the genocidal slaughter in Gaza. So these are the central problems. These are the central crimes that must end and must end conditionally. The problem

with past field approaches like the Oslo process is that they conditioned ending Israeli crimes of occupation, of apartheid, on some negotiated peace solution, on some agreement over governance and put the onus on Palestinians to have better governance, new governance, different governance, conditions that, of course, Palestinians would inevitably never meet because of the structure of the Palestinian Authority as effectively an agent of the occupation and administrator of the occupation in certain parts of the West Bank. And that is the approach that our book rejects. We say that first, occupation and apartheid has to end. And second, that only the people living between the river and the sea should democratically decide what their future governance

looks like, whether one state or two states. The essential problem is one that the United States refuses to deal with and refuses to address. The United States matters because it is the principal backer of Israel, and without U.S. military and diplomatic and political support, Israel's occupation and apartheid rule would have ended decades ago. What we're hoping for is to offer an off-ramp, an off-ramp for peace, an off-ramp for security for all of the people, Israeli Jews, Palestinians, other minorities living between the river and the sea, should Israeli Jews want an off-ramp that will see an end to their global isolation, increasing sanctions against them, inability to live in peace and security, permanent war footing, endless

wars. I can't imagine that this is something that Israeli Jews want for their future. But really, the only two options that remain now is either the full displacement and eradication of Palestinians, which is what the current Israeli government has been seeking to do, as we've seen in Gaza, as we are seeing in the West Bank, or an alternative, an alternative, detailed approach for how to bring democratic rule between the river and the sea and allow people to do what we do in democratic countries around the world, which is choose our government. Sarah Lee Whitson, want to thank you for being with us,

Executive Director of Dawn, an organization working to reform U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East. She's written a new book. It's co-authored with Michael Schaefer Omerman. It's called From A Partate to Democracy, a blueprint for peace in the Israel, Palestine. Coming up, Dean Fulahan, who's been picked, by New York Mayor Lexor on Mamdani to service his deputy mayor and help carry out his affordability agenda.

Then we'll speak with Bishop Barber. Stay with us. In the beginning, you really love me. But I was too blind. that I couldn't see. But when you left me, Zisham B covering, you don't miss your water in our Democracy Now studio. This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org.

I'm Amy Goodman with Juan Gonzalez. Here in New York, Mayor Luxuron Mamdani will be taking office in just five weeks on January 1st. His transition team continues to make announcements about the new administration. On Tuesday, his office confirmed 179 political appointees from Eric Adams' administration have been asked to resign by January 1st. On Monday, Mamdani unveiled a 400-person advisory group broken up into 17 committees. The transition team says they've received over 70,000 applications from New Yorkers' interested in working for the new administration. One of the most significant and earliest announcements was the appointment of the first deputy mayor, Dean Fulahan. This is Mayor-elect Mamdani.

I want to announce my first deputy mayor, Dean Fulahan, except that I know for many, he will require no introduction. I'm grateful to him for returning to public service, and I know he has chosen to do so because he believes in our administration's ability to deliver universal child care, making the slowest buses in America fast and free, and freezing the rent for more than two million rent-stabilized tenants in this city. Dean Fulahan served as first deputy mayor during the mayor de Blasio's second term. During de Blasio's first term, he was director of the mayor's office of management and budget. But most recently, New York Governor Kathy Hokel appointed Fulahan to the New York State Financial Control Board. He also serves as a top aide to legislators for decades. The nation's John Nichols calls him one of the most experienced hands in New York City and state government. Incoming first deputy mayor, Dean Fulahan, also spoke at Mamdani's news conference.

I am proud to be returning to City Hall as your first deputy mayor. New Yorkers elected you because they know you will build an administration of energy, ideas, and experience. I look forward to being part of a city government that looks like New York City and understands what it means to be a unicorner. Like so many in our city, and the mayor of like mentioned it, I come from an immigrant family. My father, an immigrant from Lebanon, my mother whose parents immigrated. from Lebanon and her first language Arabic. They struggled and succeeded and instilled in my brothers in me a deep sense of public service and a commitment to providing others that same

opportunity. The same is true of my wife's parents who both immigrated from Korea. The mayor elect has provided that same hope in every message throughout the campaign. I am one of the many that was deeply inspired by that message of hope. I firmly believe in this agenda, and I am proud to join a team that will be devoted to this agenda and will work every day to make it happen. To speak more about Mamdani's affordability agenda and how it will be accomplished. Dean Fulahan joins us now in our New York studio. So to say the least, it will be a major change. And then you have President Trump meeting with Mayor-elect Mamdani in the Oval Office in the White House. If you can talk about how you plan to achieve these extremely

important changes that Mamdani is laid out. And what you did under Blasio, the pre-K school system that is larger than most school systems in the United States kindergarten through 12th grade. And many thought that couldn't be accomplished. Well, first, good morning. And thank you for having me here. I'm a huge fan and a constant listener, but you're right. It's a challenge, it's an opportunity and what the mayor elect is doing and what we're all doing. The team that brought him through a remarkable campaign from basically being completely unknown a year ago after the presidential election going out in the streets and asking people why they had voted around New York City for Donald Trump and understanding that frustration and those challenges

and turning that into a campaign of opportunity and hope, which is what he won on in overwhelming numbers on election day. And now with that same drive, really that same drive, building a much bigger team that's going to say, okay, here are the priorities that the mayor elect put forward. The affordability agenda, every single one of them, how do we achieve those? How do we negotiate with Albany to achieve those? How do we meet in Washington with the president to achieve those? At the same time, this is 8.5 million people. It's an amazing city.

It's a privilege to be part of that. but it has day-to-day obligations as well. So we're putting together an aggressive team that can deliver the services New Yorkers need. So every single day, there's obligations in New York City, day-to-day ones, whether it's picking up trash, making sure the children are safe in schools, making sure they're learning in our schools. All those day-to-day things we have to do, and the mayor elect is committed to do them in a better way.

actually make New Yorkers see the improvements in the day-to-day city services. So we're doing that, why we also have this very aggressive agenda, and while we also handle the unforeseen and the crisis that may happen on a daily basis as well in New York City. That's the team we're putting together. That's why we're involving so many New Yorkers in a dialogue about what is that agenda and how they can help us. And that's how we're doing it. So every day, that's, that, that is the agenda. And Dean, I wanted to ask you, during the, when Bill de Blasio was first elected, of course, he had little experience and he depended on a, a known and respected veteran of government during

his first term, Tony Chorris, and you obviously worked under Tony, wondering your sense, the discussions you had with Mamdani about. taking this post because obviously you know well the the all the leaders in all in Albany you the the power elite of the city will probably have much more respect for you because they have so much trepidation about the Mamdani victory what were the discussions that you had with Mamdani about your role as the the key figure on the day-to-day operations of city government so first one it's wonderful seeing you again So we've actually both spent a lot of time in New York City and in Albany.

So it's really, it's a pleasure to be with you again. And we should say that Juan wrote a book on the De Blasio administration. So right from the very beginning, and I met with the mayor-elect in the winter, we talked about how to make, and at that point he was still very low in the polls. We talked about how to make New York City work, how a government functions, and how you get to, to, instead of, working to make sure an agenda, an aggressive agenda is accomplished and can be accomplished. I believe then that every one of his agenda items could be accomplished, should be accomplished, needed to be accomplished. And we talked about how we would effectuate that. And we kept doing that.

And you raised the de Blasio administration, and obviously one of the first major successes of the whole administration was universal pre-K. And when that started, we heard the exact same things that you just cited. We heard from the then governor of New York that you should start with a pilot. He wouldn't fund it that there was no way for it to happen. We heard from our own department, well-meaning, that. it would take five years. Well, three months later, we had the funding and two years later it was fully implemented. Government can, working together, cross agencies with clear direction, can accomplish

the needs of New Yorkers. And that's what the mayor-elect has put forward. That's what he ran on. That's the team he's putting together. That's why I'm privileged to be part of this team. And it's incumbent on us to make sure that happens. There are ways to do that. Is it easy? Of course not. But that's what we're going to accomplish. Now, one of the key, the signature promises of Mandani is maintaining a rent-freeze on rent-stabilized apartments. But as you well know, there's a nine-member rent guidelines board that is appointed by the mayor. And the outgoing mayor, Eric Adams, could conceivably, in his last month in office, appoint enough people to saddle Mahdani with Adams.

rent guidelines board. Have you had any discussions with the outgoing Adams administration about that? You know, Juan, what we're working on is, I'm going to say it again. I'm not, every single one of the agenda items, whether it's universal, child care, whether it's free and fast buses, whether it's the rent freeze, we're going to find a way to accomplish. We believe we can do that. We We've put a huge team together to make sure that happens, and we're going to get there. The exact route of every single one of these, we're working right now on universal child care, which also everyone was saying could not happen, much too expensive, will not happen. Well, we have a governor who for weeks now has said universal child care is also part of her agenda.

So those claims of, well, it's impossible are no longer happening now. We expect to see that in every single one of these items. And what about the governor's support for things like free buses? Is there a potential for that as well? I apologize for repeating the same message. But it is what he ran on. It is what he had overwhelming support for. and those are accomplishments we're going to make happen.

We're going to outline those. We're going to say what our process is to get them. We believe that we have a very different relationship with the current governor in New York than the very contentious one that you've reported on for so many years and actually covered many different mayors and governors. We believe this will be a very different relationship. and that's already started, and we're in constant conversations with the governor and the governor's team. Speaking about changing relationships, Mayor-elect Mamdani was just in Washington, D.C., with President Trump,

who had threatened to deport him, to detain him, called him a communist lunatic. But this was a bit of their exchange. I just want to congratulate. I think you're going to have, hopefully, a really great mayor. The better he does, the happier I am, I will say. There's no difference in party. There's no difference in anything. And we're going to be helping him to make everybody's dream come true,

having a strong and very safe New York. And congratulations, Mr. Mayor. Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you. I appreciate it. Please. I appreciate the meeting with the President. And as he said, it was a productive meeting focused on a place of shared admiration and love,

which is New York City, and the need to deliver affordability to New Yorkers, the 8.5 million people who call our city their home, who are struggling to afford life in the most experienced. city in the United States of America. We spoke about rent. We spoke about groceries. We spoke about utilities. We spoke about the different ways in which people are being pushed out. And I appreciated the time with the president. I appreciated the conversation. I look forward to working together to deliver that affordability for New Yorkers. So before this, President Trump had threatened ice raids of New York, more intense ice raids. Were you shocked by President Trump's first

antagonism and also saying he's withholding billions of dollars from the city, if Mamdani wins, to his incredible embrace. And what does it mean? How will you deal with this extremely, to say the least, mercurial president? Look, I mean, the mayor elect asked for the meeting, requested the meeting, knew what the agenda was to present and to discuss with the president about New York City, something they, and clearly, what happened was there's a common interest that came out of that meeting, and, you know, we'll take that. We'll accept that there are potential places we can work together why we disagree. The mayor elect didn't back down from his positions. He was very firm in what he believes in. He said that at the press

conference. He's repeatedly said that. Says he thinks he's a fascist and a despot. But to the extent that we can work and for the benefit of New Yorkers, we're not going to accept that. We're going to make that part of how we achieve the affordability agenda. We're not backing away from it and we look for help wherever we can get it while also maintaining our principles and defending New Yorkers. None of that has been backed up. Did he get a promise from President Trump not to do that? the kind of ice raids, for example, and we're going to talk about this in a minute with

Bishop Barber that he's done in Charlotte. Hundreds of people arrested. Well, the mayor elect has clearly raised that, raised that at the press conference, raised it after, that that is still a grave concern for us. And I'm going to repeat, we're going to protect New Yorkers. And we're going to enforce the laws of New Yorkers, and we're going to out of New York, and we're going to continue to be moving on both agendas. The affordability as well as providing safety for New Yorkers. And Dean, Fondley, I wanted to ask you about your sense of relations with the police department. Clearly, during the de Blasio administration, the police were a major, major stumbling block

in terms of the mayor's relations. What's your sense of what you would like to see? I know that Mandani has said he's going to keep the current police commissioner, but what your sense is in terms of what you're going to do to build relationships with the police department? We've already started that, right? I mean, the mayor elect has appointed the current police commissioner, Jessica Tish, to continue.

We're having numerous conversations with her. The mayor elect is about what the agenda is. And the same thing is going to happen. We're going to work, beginning in January, we're going to be working with the police commissioner and the NYPD on how to address the concerns of safety, but also how to develop the Department of Community Safety, treat mental health issues differently. All that is going to be worked out, and we'll do that with the NYPD, and we believe it will be done in a cooperative way. We're very hopeful about what this administration can achieve, but we also know that we, the, the

The agenda is that we will achieve it, and the NYPD will be part of achieving that, but so will a different approach to public safety, a different approach to mental health, addition approach, different approach to crisis intervention. All those things can work together and actually have a police department that deals with what their core issues are and not taking on additional social issues that we have to confront and deal with. Dean Fulahan, I want to thank you very much for being with us. New York City's incoming first deputy mayor in the Zoran Mamdani administration. Zoran Mamdani will be sworn in as New York mayor on January 1st.

Coming up, protests continue in North Carolina after federal agents arrest at least 370 people in immigration raids. We'll speak to Bishop William Barber in 20 seconds. dying in shape. Look at all the people they deny. They're tired and they're hungry and living in pain. Yeah, I could see. Look at all the people they deny. Oh, to get the people, oh, to get the people,

standing against deadly policy violence led by Reverend Bishop William Barber. This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org. I'm Amy Goodman, Juan Gonzalez. In North Carolina, protests are continuing as they're continuing around the country. In North Carolina, federal agents arrested 370 people in immigration raids. On Monday, Bishop Barber and other religious leaders gathered in Charlotte. So they hit North Carolina with ice raids. And they hit North Carolina at ice raids right at the same time, people are raising concerns about Medicaid and health care. and racist voter-restricting.

And some people think that that means what we have to do is go to the ice raids and forget about the other thing. But what we know in this movement is it all connects. That was Bishop William Barber speaking Monday in Charlotte, North Carolina, joining us now from North Carolina. He's president of Repairors of the Breach, National Co-Chair of Poor People's Campaign, founding director of the Center for Public Theology and Public Policy at Yale Divinity School. We only have a few minutes, Bishop, but your agenda is a big one.

Can you talk about the protests around immigration raids and then what you're talking about when it comes to health care and other issues right now? Thank you so much, Amy. We had tomorrow Monday in 20 states yesterday. And in North Carolina, we had two, one at 12 o'clock, one at 7 o'clock. And the focus is to connect the dots and to bring people out of every different race, creed in color. We were in Charlotte because the ice raids came. We knew they were coming. People stood up and had been planning for months and waiting for it.

We went there to deliver Liberty Vans, which is a concept through the Save America movement. Steve Schmidt and others have come together. These vans on public ground travel constantly to film what ICE is doing that news may not get a hold of and to put it out there and also to document the trauma that people are going through. But we also gathered hundreds of people right there in that church and thousands online who are saying that when you look at the ice raids and then the raiding of Medicaid for millions of people, the raiding of food stamps for millions of people, and in North Carolina, the raiding of our voting rights, what you have is a is a conglomerate of policy violence. And it's deadly. It's deadly. It kills dreams. It kills hopes. It kills democracy. but also we know 51,000 people are scheduled to may die for preventable death because of what has happened in the big, beautiful, big, ugly, destructive bill. And the reason, and we keep raising that is because that same bill that cut 16 million people's

health care, 22 million people's food stamp, takes that cut and then puts $150 billion into ICE agents. They're hiring more agents with masks. and we recognize that we have to connect this together and we have to stand strong together and it has to be a moral issue. We cannot let this merely be a issue between Democrats and Republicans.

We had clergy from everywhere as well as activists as well as impacted people on Monday night who are determined for the long haul and who understand what policy murder, policy violence, policy destruction looks like and why in this moment we must raise it. like never before. And we're talking about long term. These moral Mondays will continue. They began in the South and 10 states. Now they've spread to 20. And we're going to continue to raise it.

In fact, Amy, lastly, when we go, we're not only going with bands, we're going with caskets. We're literally taking caskets to the General Assembly, sometimes at the office of these congresspersons and senators to say these policies are destructive to lives. And we must make that case before America. This is not just about Democrat and Republican and left versus right. This is literally about life

versus death. And Reverend Barber, in Chicago, everyone from the governor on down to all the community organizations finally succeeded in basically pushing ice out of the city at least temporarily.

What's your sense of the kind of solidities that are being built between black and brown communities in North Carolina right now? Well, black and brown and white, you know, people are coming together, and I think that's important to say that. In Asian, we had Jewish, we had Muslim in the room, we had Christian in the room. You know, sometimes what happens is pain that is caused by powerful politicians who forget that what they ought to be doing is picking up humanity rather than pulling down humanity.

It actually has a reversal effect, and it makes people. people come together because it's so blatant, so ugly, so harsh, and so mean. And that's what we see happening. And people are not believing that ice has ever gone anywhere. They are saying they may go underground. They may stop for a minute. But just like what you see in Charlotte, the people that were planning there even before we went down on Monday, they've been planning.

They've been training. They've been getting ready. And that's what we're saying to cut our cities and the states and states all over the country. Get ready. Don't wait. Get ready now. And get ready by connecting the dots. Get ready by connecting the dots. We must organize this pain. The same pain that is caused by millions of people losing health care, millions of people losing their food stamp, millions of people's voting rights being challenged, millions of people without living wages, and millions of immigrants being challenged and harmed and deported. We must connect all of that pain into a powerful movement. And then last to, Amy, this is not new. We have 10 seconds. Yeah. Well, the bottom line is we also said this is not new. This has a deep American history. People have had to fight it for years. And it's our time now that we have to fight it. And we must do it together. And as we move into this holiday weekend, people should remember, according to Feeding America, one in five children are going hungry in the United States.

That's despite the government reopening. Bishop William Barber, President of Repairers of the Breach National Cocher of the Poor People's Campaign, thanks so much. for being with it. Us. That does it for our show. I'm Amy Goodman with Juan Gonzalez for another edition of Democracy Now.