Democracy Now! Audio - Democracy Now! 2025-12-08 Monday

Episode Date: December 8, 2025

Headlines for December 08, 2025; “Murder on the High Seas”: War Crimes Prosecutor Reed Brody on Trump’s Boat Strikes; “I Was Pepper-Sprayed”: Rep. Adelita Grijalva on ICE Raid, Epstein Files, Rising Health Costs & More; “Domestic Terrorism”: Leaked DOJ Memo Targets “Anti-Americanism, Anti-Capitalism, Anti-Christianity”; “The Problem with Plastic”: Former EPA Official on How to Save the Planet Before It’s Too Late

From New York, this is Democracy Now. The bottom line is that there's no legal basis for attacking these boats and the people on the boats. If this were a war, this would be a war crime. But because it's not a war, it's just murder. Pressure is growing on the Trump administration to release video of a U.S. air strike on September 2nd that killed two men who were left shipwrecked in the Caribbean after an earlier U.S. strike on their vessel killed nine people. We'll speak to war crimes prosecutor Reid Brody. Then to Arizona, where ice agents fired pepper spray at newly sworn in Congress member Adelita Grahava as local residents protested another ice raid. I was here. This is like the restaurant I come to literally once a week and was sprayed in the face by a very aggressive agent, pushed around by others.

When I literally was not being aggressive, I was asking for clarification, which is my right as a member of Congress. Plus, we look at Attorney General Pam Bondi's memo calling for law enforcement to target a wide range of what she calls extremists in the United States. states, including those who show, quote, hostility towards traditional views on family, religion, and morality. And we'll talk to former EPA official Judith Ank, author of the new book, The Problem with Plastic, How We Can Save Ourselves and Our Planet, before it's too late. Plastics are damaging our health. They're showing up in every parts of our body. They're making climate change worse. And they're a major problem where they're produced in a environmental justice communities. All that and more. Coming up.

Welcome to Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org, the Warren Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth's defended the September 2nd double attack that killed 11 people aboard an alleged drug smuggling boat in the Caribbean, including two survivors of the initial strike. Hegg Seth defended the Pentagon's actions, even as he continued to deny reports, he issued a verbal order to kill all crew members aboard. Heg Seth spoke from the Reagan National Defense Forum in Simi Valley, California, Saturday. What I understood then and what I understand now, I fully support that strike. I would have made the same call myself. Those who were involved in 20 years of conflict, Iraq and Afghanistan or elsewhere, know that reattacks and restrikes of combatants

on the battlefield, happen often. Hegseth also refused to say whether the Pentagon would release video showing the follow-up attack on September 2nd. That's despite President Trump's statement last Wednesday that, quote, whatever they have will certainly release no problem. Meanwhile, CNN's reporting that Admiral Frank Mitch Bradley told lawmakers last week the alleged drug boat on September 2nd planned to link up with. another larger vessel that was bound not for the United States, but for Suriname.

On Friday, Amnesty International said the focus on the September 2nd double-tap strike had obscured the fact that all of these strikes had been illegal under domestic and international law. Amnesty wrote, quote, all of them constitute murder because none of the victims, whether or not they were smuggling illegal narcotics, posed an imminent thing. threat to life. Since September, the Pentagon claims it struck at least 22 boats in the Caribbean and the eastern Pacific. A senior Hamas official says the group is ready to discuss freezing or storing its stockpile of weapons as part of the ceasefire deal to end Israel's assault on the

Gaza Strip. The overture came as Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said several key issues still need to be resolved before he'd commit to the second phase of the U.S. ceasefire, which he's planning to discuss with President Trump at the end of December. On Saturday, Qatar and Egypt called on Israel to fully withdraw from Gaza and for an international stabilization force to be deployed. This is Qatar's Prime Minister, Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdul Rahman Al-Tani. Now, we are at a critical moment. It's not yet there.

So what we have just done is opposed. We cannot consider it yet a ceasefire. A ceasefire cannot be completed unless there is a full withdrawal of the Israeli forces, there is stability back in Gaza, people can go in and out, which is not the case today. Meanwhile, Israeli forces are continuing violent raids on Palestinian communities across the occupied West Bank. On Sunday, residents of Hebron held a general strike to protest the killing of two Palestinians by Israeli forces a day earlier. Separately, Israeli forces shot and killed a Palestinian in the town of Azoon Sunday.

The violence came as Israeli media reported Israel's far-right finance minister, Bezal Smotrick, has set aside approximately more than $830 million to fund 17 new settlements in the occupied West Bank over the next five years. Meanwhile, human rights groups are expressing grave concerns about the fate of jailed Palestinian political prisoner Marwan Barguti. After his son said he'd received news his father had been severely beaten and tortured by Israeli prison guards, leaving him physically shattered. In Sudan, the rapid support forces paramilitary group attacked a preschool, a hospital, and other sites in the state of South Kordofan Thursday, killing at least. 116 people, including 46 children, according to reporting by Al Jazeera. The war between the RSF and the Sudanese military has killed at least 40,000 people

and displaced 12 million since 2023, though aid groups say the true death toll could be more than three times higher. Hundreds of people have fled heavy fighting in the Eastern Democratic Republic of the Congo after M23 rebels clash with Congolese forces backed by thousands. thousands of Burundian soldiers. The violence erupted in the Ruzizi plain near the DRC's border with Rwanda and Burundi. Survivors described bombs falling on civilians, fleeing an initial attack on their communities. We were about to climb the mountain just after the Lubrizi Bridge.

When we arrived at the first houses of Mutaruli, those who were in front and behind us weren't hit. But us who were in the middle, that's where the bomb fell in succession. The first, the second, and the third. That's when some people started falling and others died on the spot. I was injured and thought it was only me, but my childhood was on my back was also hit. The fighting came just one day after President Trump hosted the leaders of the DRC in Rwanda in Washington, D.C. At the U.S. Institute of Peace, which the State Department has renamed the Donald J. Trump Institute of Peace, where they signed an agreement aimed at ending the decades-long conflict in the Eastern Union.

TRC. Trump declared he'd brought peace to the region, describing it as a glorious triumph and a miracle. Russia launched a massive wave of drone and missile strikes on Ukraine over the weekend that officials in Kiev are calling one of the most devastating attacks since Russia's full-scale invasion nearly four years ago. The strikes damaged power facilities in eight Ukrainian regions and once again severed outside power to the Zaporica power plant, the largest nuclear plant in Europe, forcing officials to use backup diesel generators to prevent a nuclear disaster. This is Alain Ahomik, who witnessed a Russian strike that triggered a fire in a warehouse near her home near Kiev. We critically need to be helped with weapons, for the world to unite, for the world to help us,

to be heard, for Mr. Trump to hear us, that he's been. being deceived that he is being led into a delusion. You can't bargain with Russia. This is not the kind of country that will give in. If Ukraine falls, Russia will cling to something else. Look at what's happening with Georgia's Abkhazia. What they've turned this flourishing region into. They're doing this with Ukraine now. On Sunday, President Trump's eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., blasted Ukraine's president Volodymyr Zelensky over a corruption scandal and said that Trump administration might walk away from peace talks. His comments came as the Kremlin welcomed Trump's new national security strategy, which seeks to reestablish, quote, strategic stability with Russia. The document also claims

Europe is facing the, quote, stark prospect of civilizational erasure and urges U.S. support for far-right anti-immigrant populists like AFD, that's the alternative for Germany and Hungary's authoritarian leader, Victor Orban. The U.S. Supreme Court has agreed to, her arguments on whether President Trump has the authority to undo automatic citizenship for people born in the United States. President Trump signed an executive order on his first day back in office, declaring children born to undocumented immigrants into some temporary foreign residents would no longer be granted birthright citizenship.

Vaccine advisors at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have voted against universal hepatitis B shots for newborns recommending the vaccine only for infants born to women who test positive for the virus. The announcement reverses 35 years of CDC recommendations that all newborns receive the hepatitis B vaccine within 24 hours. Attorney General Pam Bondi's ordering the FBI to compile a list of what the Justice Department is calling domestic terrorist organizations. A memo obtained by journalist Ken Klippenstein says the DOJ's target is those expressing, quote, opposition to law and immigration enforcement, extreme views in favor of mass migration and open borders, adherence to radical gender ideology, as well as anti-Americanism,

anti-capitalism, and anti-Christianity. The memo echoes language and President Trump directive known as the NSPM 7 or National Security Presidential Memorandum 7, which Trump signed in September in the wake of the murder of right-wing activist Charlie Kirk. We'll have more on this story later in the broadcast with the investigative journalist Ken Klippenstein. Democratic Congressman Adelita Grajava of Arizona says she was attacked by asked ICE agents Friday if she tried to find out more information about a raid taking place

at a restaurant in her district in Tucson, Arizona. I was here. This is like the restaurant I come to literally once a week and was sprayed in the face by a very aggressive agent, pushed around by others. When I literally was not being aggressive, I was asking for clarification, which is my right as a member of Congress. Adelaideh Grijav is the first Latina to represent Arizona in Congress. Join us later in the broadcast. Meanwhile, Minneapolis Police Chief Brian O'Hara warned his police officers that they will be fired if they don't intervene when ICE agents use unlawful force.

The Trump administration recently launched an immigration crackdown on the Twin Cities shortly after President Trump disparage Minneapolis's Somali community as well as its Congress member, Ilhan Omar, in a racist tirade, calling them all garbage. The Trump administration's changed the name of the nation's highest ranking openly transgender official on her official portrait. Admiral Rachel Levine served for four years as President Biden's assistant secretary for health and was the first transgender person to win Senate confirmation. Her official portrait is displayed at the Federal Department of Health and Human Services Building after she was confirmed in 2021. Recently, the Trump administration removed Levine's name from her portrait and replaced it with her previous name. A startup funded by a venture capital firm with backing from President Trump's son, Donald Trump Jr., has been awarded a $620 million contract from the Pentagon.

That's according to reporting from the Financial Times. It's the largest ever government contract issued by the Pentagon's Office of Strategic Capital. Jr. joined the venture capital firm, 1789 Capital, as a partner last year, and since then at least four companies backed by the firm of received government contracts. A federal judge in Florida's ordered the release of previously sealed grand jury documents from a federal investigation into the late convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein in the mid-2000s. Soon after the investigation ended, Epstein and federal prosecutors negotiated a non-prosecution agreement, which resulted in Epstein pleading guilty in Florida state court to

relatively minor charges. Friday's ruling ordering the release of grand jury documents comes after Congress passed a law last month requiring the Justice Department to release all its files on Epstein by December 19th. We'll speak with Congress member Adelaideh Ghalva later in the broadcast about this pending deadline. FIFA awarded President Trump the organization's new Peace Prize Friday at the 2026 World Cup draw. FIFA President Johnny Infantino presented Trump with a gold trophy with his name on it, saying, quote, you definitely deserve the first FIFA Peace Prize for your action, for what you've obtained in your way. Infantino is a close ally of Trump and has been a frequent visitor to the Oval Office.

FIFA also established an office at Trump Tower in Manhattan. And President Trump hosted the annual Kennedy Center honors on Sunday night. after completing his takeover of the once venerable arts institution in Washington, D.C. The Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts was established by Congress and has been run by a bipartisan board since its opening in 1971 until Trump came into office and upended that in February when he moved to install his loyalists in key positions and make himself chair. On Sunday, CBS carried a live broadcast of the ceremony in which Trump paid tribute to his hand-picked

award winners, musicians George Strait and Gloria Gainer, the rock band KISS, and actor Sylvester Stallone, and Broadway actor Michael Crawford, the original Phantom and the Phantom of the Opera. And those are some of the headlines. This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org, the Warren Peace Report. I'm Mimi Goodman. Pressures growing on the Trump administration to release video of a U.S. airstrike on September 2nd that killed two men who were left shipwrecked in the cruise. after an earlier U.S. strike on the vessel that killed nine people.

The Trump administration claims all the passengers on the boat were involved in drug trafficking but offered no proof. CNN's reporting that Admiral Frank Mitch Bradley told lawmakers last week the boat planned to link up with another larger vessel that was bound not for the United States, but for Suriname. On Sunday, Democratic Representative Adam Smith of Washington State spoke to ABC News. There were two survivors on an overturned boat, and Senator Cotton's description of it is simply not accurate. When they were finally taken out, they were trying to flip the boat over. The boat was clearly incapacitated.

A tiny portion of it remained, capsized the bow of the boat. They had no communications device. Certainly they were unarmed. Any claim that the drugs had somehow survived that attack is hard to really square with what we saw. So it was deeply disturbing. It did not appear that these two survivors were in any position to continue the fight. Congressman Adam Smith's comments came a day after Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth spoke at the Reagan Library at the Reagan National Defense Forum in Simi Valley, California. He defended the strike on the shipwrecked men and was questioned about releasing the strike video.

So, Mr. Secretary, you will be releasing that full video. We are reviewing it right now. Is that a yes or no? That is, the most important thing to me are the ongoing operations in the Caribbean with our folks that use bespoke capabilities, techniques, procedures in the process. I'm way more interested in protecting that than anything else. So we're viewing the process and we'll see. Hague says comments contradict President Trump,

who was questioned about releasing the video last week. Mr. President, you release video of that first boat strike on September 2nd, but not the second video. Will you release video of that strike so that the American people can see for themselves what happened? I don't know what they have, but whatever they have, we'd certainly release. No problem. Since September, the Pentagon struck at least 22 votes in the Caribbean and the eastern Pacific. We're joined now by Reid Brody, war crimes prosecutor, member of the International Commission of Juris, an author of the book to catch a dictator, the pursuit and trial of Hussain Habre. Welcome back to Democracy Now, Reed.

Are these war crimes? Well, if this was a war, they would be war crimes. But because it's not a war, it's murder. I mean, in order to have a war, you need to be actually fighting against either another country or an organized, armed group. and there has to be a level of conflict such that it is an armed conflict. President Trump has taken a metaphor, the war on drugs or the war against narcos, and tried to convert it into an actual war. But, you know, that's no more valid than saying,

okay, we're fighting a war on corruption so we can target alleged insider traitors or we're fighting a war on disinformation so we can, Trump can bomb the BBC. I mean, this is, I mean, let's remember that this is a law enforcement operation. The United States can make drug smuggling a crime, as we have. We can interdict these people. We can bring them to the United States. We can prosecute them if they're found guilty. They go to jail.

What we can't do, however, is just. go around the world, dropping bombs on ships and on people, without any evidence of any wrongdoing, without any trial, and without any evidence that they are posing a threat to anybody. Let's, yeah. Let me go back to Defense Secretary Pete Hedgeset speaking at the Reagan National Defense Forum at the Reagan Library in California. The days in which these narco-terrorists designated terror organizations operate freely in our hemisphere are over. These narco-terrorists are the al-Qaeda of our hemisphere, and we are hunting them with the same sophistication and precision that we hunted al-Qaeda.

We are tracking them, we are killing them, and we will keep killing them so long as they are poisoning our people with narcotics so lethal that they're tantamount to chemical weapons. Read, Brody. Look, right now, as we speak, speak, the former president of the Philippines, Rodrigo Duterte, is facing trial at the international criminal court in the Hague for doing exactly what President Trump and Secretary Hague's effort have done, killing suspected drug dealers without due process. What we are doing here

is murder on the high seas. If these were, you know, if these crimes were being committed in the territorial waters of a country that was a party to the international criminal court, the prosecutor could actually bring charges against Donald Trump, Pete Heggseth, and all the people down the chain of command for extrajudicial, not for war crimes, because it's not a war, but for murder. for extrajudicial executions. So let me ask you, this happening at the same time last week, that President Trump pardoned and released Juan Orlando Hernandez.

Now, Juan Orlando Hernandez, the former president of Honduras, was found guilty in a U.S. court. His brother had been found guilty a few years before. His brother sentenced to life in prison, Juan Orlando Hernandez sentenced something like 45, 46 years in prison in a U.S. jail. for trafficking cocaine into the United States, using all the levers of the power of the state as president, the military, the police, and facilitating cocaine coming into this country and quoted in the trial were those who said, he said, we are going to stuff cocaine of the noses of those gringoes.

Yeah, I mean, look, these strikes are crimes within an illegal operation. in the service of what is really a hoax. I mean, if President Trump was concerned about drugs, I mean, Venezuela accounts for a very small portion of drugs coming into the United States. I mean, most of the fentanyl and other drugs come in on land routes through Mexico, etc. I mean, this is no more a war on drugs than, you know, sending National Guard into Democratic cities is about fighting crime. or, you know, attacking free speech on campuses is about, you know, protecting from anti-Semitism.

I mean, they're just making this stuff up. And basically, they're forcing the debate into, you know, their own terms. So finally, or is the U.S., is Trump trying to trigger a Venezuelan Gulf of Tonkin, an excuse for the U.S. to invade Venezuela, the country with the largest oil reserves in the world? Look, I've got no truck for Nicholas Madero. I mean, this is a man who, you know, who stole elections, who crushes dissent and everything. But what it does appear to be is all of this is a pretext. It's we're bullying. This is a psychological operation. I don't know that Trump and the MAGA base will actually go in guns of blazing to Venezuela.

But I think that this is not about drugs. I think this is about bullying and intimidating the Venezuelan government. Reid, Bertie, thanks so much for being with us. War Crimes Prosecutor, Member of the International Commission of Juris, author of the book to Catch a Dictator, the Pursuit and Trial of Hissain Habre. To see our interview on that book, go to Democracy Now.org. Next up, we go to Tucson, Arizona, where ice agents pepper sprayed, a newly sworn in Congress member. Congresswoman Adelita Gajalva has local residents protested yet another ice raid. Stay with us. I don't know. When first on to this country, a stranger I came. I called it Fairme, and Nancy was her name. I caught it dearest Nancy. I caught her day and night.

Till I was crying a bear bit, Captain William Wine. The downhill strugglers performing went first unto this country at the Brooklyn Folk Festival in November. This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org, the Warren Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman. We turn now to Arizona, where Democratic Congressmember Adelita Grajava of Arizona says she was pepper sprayed by masked ice agents as she tried to find out more information about a raid on a popular restaurant in her district in Tucson. Grahava's the first Latina to represent Arizona in Congress. She posted this video of herself as she identified herself to the agents before they pepper sprayed her.

You need to calm down and get out. You need to get out. You need to get out. You need to get out. Get out of the way. You guys need to clear now. The video posted by Congressmember Grijava slows down the final scene and repeats the part where an immigration and customs enforcement officer pepper sprays her. Grajava joins us now for more.

She last joined us right after she was sworn. in last month to succeed her father, former Congressmember Rahul Grahava. After a 50-day delay, she then became the 218th signatory on the Bipartisan Epstein Files Transparency Act, which compels the Justice Department, FBI, and federal prosecutors to disclose the documents by December 19th. We'll talk about that in a minute. But Congressmember Grajava, thanks so much for being with us. Let's start with what happened on Friday.

Tell us exactly where you are. What was the establishment that was being raided and what happened to you? Yeah. So that's a restaurant I go to all the time, is Takoyito. I was literally on my way there for lunch with three of my members of my team. And we got a call turning down that corner saying, hey, something's going on at Takagito. There's like an ice rate. So you could see it.

I mean, the road was blocked. I pulled off into another establishment and walked over to try to find out what was going on. I asked questions. I introduced myself as a member of Congress. I believe that it is my job. Oversight is my job. It's not optional. And I was trying to ensure people's rights were protected.

And except for one individual, everybody else, it didn't matter if I was a member of Congress or not. They were trying to incite some sort of riot because there was no reason at that point for them to still be there. So the part of the video where I said, you all need to go right before that, there was a, agent that said, you all need to move and we'll get out of here. So once I asked everyone to move, I was trying to de-escalate the situation. So the road was clear. That's why I kept saying, okay, y'all need to go now. You all need to go now. Our community deserves safety, clarity, due process. And I'm going to continue to demand answers about who was targeted and why this location was chosen and whether protocols were followed because Southern Arizona elected me to stand up for

them. So what has ICE responded or the federal government responded to your pepper spraying? Oh, they said I wasn't pepper sprayed. So that was the response. That I wasn't pepper sprayed, that this was a long investigation. And literally what we were asking and I was asking is what is going on here. So the video speaks for itself. I was. pepper sprayed and then there was gas. And it was, I mean, you can see officers. Telemundo was there. Univision was there.

There were other stations there. You can see officers in other videos clearly shooting a spray right at people's eye line unnecessarily. I mean, sort of where I was, the person that was hit the worst, literally in front of me, was a member of the press. And DHS did, you know, admit to that. Like there was a member of the press. I said they weren't being aggressive.

They had press credentials and a lot of cameras. So it was pretty, it's very, very jarring. So what happened to the restaurant? Who got arrested? I don't know. I believe it's still closed. I haven't gone back. So they're locally owned, but it's a chain around other places in southern Arizona.

What the claim was is that it was a raid having to do with taxes. But again, the show of four. force in front, like in the middle of the community was very, very concerning, very aggressive to everybody. Adelito Grohav, I want to ask you a question on another issue. You were the final vote needed on the discharge petition that calls for the release of the Epstein files. Other Republicans joined you.

and among them was Marjorie Taylor Green. I wanted to turn now to a clip of Marjorie Taylor Green. She was interviewed on 60 Minutes, and she's talking about the threats she received for bucking the president and how serious, in fact, that they are. Let's go to Marjorie Taylor Green speaking on 60 minutes. After President Trump called me a traitor, I got a pipe bomb threat on my house, and then I got several direct death threats on my son.

On your son? On my son. You say the president put your life in danger. You blame him. You say he fueled a hot bed of threats against me and that you blame him for the threats against your son. The subject line for the direct death threats on my son was his words. Marjorie Trader Green. Those are death threats directly fueled by President Trump.

So that's Marjorie Taylor Green, saying that she's receiving death or her son has received death threats because of what President Trump said about her, calling her Marjorie Trader Green. If you can talk about what he is so angry about, even though he campaigned on the release of these documents, where these documents stand. right now. Yeah. So as my, as I understand it, they are every little piece of the puzzle as far as the files

have to be approved by a federal judge in order for that investigation to be released. And so it is a longer process than I think any of us want to see. And it's also, you know, what very much concerns me in what Mr. Green is saying that as an elected person in any position, shouldn't have to worry about that kind of fear. And she's getting a glimpse of what many of my colleagues have been living with since Trump's been in office and before them. These targeted attacks are incredibly scary. And Trump had done up until the point that he gave permission to both representatives and senators to vote for the release of the Epstein files had literally done everything in his power to obstruct their

release. And so I don't know what he's afraid of, um, that the, the community that our nation are going to find out. But I do think that there are implications very high up. I was listening to your show earlier on how often, um, you know, this family, the Trump family, how they're enriching themselves off the presidency is a very scary time, um, for all of us and for democracy. Right. Donald Trump Jr.'s company getting a $600 million-plus contract with the Pentagon, among other things. Let me end by asking you about the massive health premium increases that could soon kick in for millions of Americans. As Republican Speaker Mike Johnson, races to finalize a Republican health care plan supposedly this week. Republicans want to have an alternative to vote on as Democrats attack them for allowing Obama care.

subsidies to expire. House Republicans are reportedly angry at Johnson over his failure to lead on this issue, as well as the affordability crisis, which likely impacted recent election victories for Democrats. He also helped the Trump administration to block the release of the Jeffrey Epstein files. And I want to ask you about this Republican uprising, if there is one, particularly led by Republican women like Marjorie Taylor Green, like Nancy Mace and others, if you can talk about this. Well, they're hearing from their communities about the incredible cost of maintaining insurance for your families.

So, you know, that's why Democrats were holding so strong on health care, because it is going to impact millions of people. The Republicans have had 15 years to come up with a better alternative. Since ACA started, all they have done is criticize it. And here we are December 8th, and they're talking about rolling out a plan, people are already looking at those premiums right now. So as an individual person on the ACA, to cover me, is $760 a month. To cover me and my children, it's going to be $1,400.

a month. My husband works at a local community college here, and it costs $700 a month for him to cover me, himself, and our three children. Like, this is becoming, it's a situation that's untenable, and what people are going to do, because they can't afford it, is they're going to forego health insurance. And the impact to our system in general is going to be devastating. There are five rural hospitals in southern Arizona that are already talking about closing their doors because the wave of people coming in without the resource and reimbursement is going to be devastated. So we have a really big problem to fix here in our health care system and to talk about these band-aid solutions right now, you know, in December, when premiums are going up right

around the corner, it's just, it's past time. And I think that the criticism to speak for Johnson is just. Well, we'll certainly continue to follow this this week. Adelita Grahava, U.S. representative for Arizona's seventh congressional district representing Tucson and beyond, the first Latina to represent Arizona in Congress, the daughter of the former and late Congress member Raul Grahava. This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org, the War and Peace Report, I'm Amy Goodman. Attorney General Pam Bondi's ordered the FBI to compile a list of what the Justice Department is calling domestic terrorist organizations. Last week, Bondi sent a memo to all federal prosecutors and law enforcement agencies targeting a wide range of people, including those who hold what she calls, quote, extreme views in favor of mass migration and open. borders, adherence to radical gender ideology, anti-Americanism, anti-capitalism, or anti-Christianity, unquote.

The memo also targets people who show, quote, hostility towards traditional views on family religion and morality, unquote. The investigative journalist Ken Klippenstein published a copy of Bondi's memo on his substack page on Saturday. Clippenstein notes Bondi's language echoes a national security presidential memorandum issued by President Trump, known as NSPM 7, to target nonprofits and activists. Trump signed the directive in September in the wake of the murder of right-wing activist Charlie Kirk. Ken Clippenstein, thanks so much for being with us from Madison, Wisconsin. Why don't you tell us how you got a hold of this memo? Well, it was provided to me by somebody who I can't really say much more than had access to it.

And what it was was an implementation order for that NSPM 7 directive from President Trump, which essentially targets anyone who isn't MAGA. At first I looked at it and thought, oh, this is targeting the left. But then you see these so-called indicators of terrorism, things like anti-Christian sentiment, anti-American sentiment. And I realized that's not just the left. that's anyone who isn't a Trump supporter. So explain the significance of this, Ken Klippenstein.

It essentially takes NSPM 7, which advances the view that the major threat of terrorism is coming from these, you know, anti-Trump sentiments. And it puts it into effect. It uses tools available to the federal government and federal law enforcement, in particular. particular. For example, it directs the FBI to go through its past half decade or so of intelligence on Antifa and on some of these other groups I've been talking about and tells them to make criminal cases around those and to circulate intelligence about it. And part of that intelligence production effort involves soliciting tips from the public, getting people to narque on their fellow citizens who are evincing this anti-Trump sentiment.

So in one case, it tells the FBI to upgrade and kind of supercharge its tip system so that they can get this flow of information coming in from informants all over the country reporting on threats like these. Do you believe? I'm sorry, could you repeat that again? It cut out for just a second. Who is the architect of this memo, do you believe, of the NSPM 7? I would say it's not a person so much as an incident, which was the murder of Charlie Kirk.

As national security officials described to me shortly after the murder, the very next day, there was a war room convened by the White House. and I think kind of unofficially taking point on this was President Trump's Homeland Security Advisor, Stephen Miller, and he kind of orchestrated along with all these other national security appointees, how are we going to respond to this? And the decision was made that we would make anti-Trump sentiment can amount to this terrorist threat and we're going to prosecute it as such. So I guess I would say, if I was to point to one single person, I would say Stephen Miller. But this is really an attitude held by a lot of people of the administration, which I think is genuine fear in the wake of that shooting, that something like that might happen to them. And so we have to create a response. And what that is is essentially the same sort of response to 9-11. But in this case, it's directed at Americans. Ken, is money involved with us?

Yeah, absolutely. So it directs the Treasury Department to audit taxes and try to find the administration seems convinced that there's some shadowy foreign group or financiers for a lot of the sentiments I was described before in Antifa in particular. And so it authorizes them to go through non-profits, taxes, and to try to find evidence of something which there's no public evidence exists. But is there a reward being offered? Like if someone calls an FBI tip line? Yeah, absolutely. So that's another thing that this implement. order directs. It provides for a funding system to reward people that provide these tips

that I was described before. It's basically a bounty system for anti-Trump thought and reporting on it. And it goes back retroactively five years? Yeah, the FBI right now, pursuant to this order, is digging through all of its intelligence to find whatever they can, going back to the Biden administration that can be used to help make these cases. So the memo targets organizations, not only what formal NGOs, but also book clubs, community, mutual networks, mutual aid networks, online forums. Yeah, that's exactly right. And it uses the phrase organizations and entities, which can mean individuals.

So again, it can't be overstated how sweeping a. a directive like this is. This isn't targeted, and to the extent that it's being reported as directed at Antifa, I think it's important to remember, you know, Antifa may not exist as such, but it includes a lot more than that. It also describes people opposed to immigration enforcement, which if you look at polling is like, you know, the way in which immigration enforcement has been rolled out under this administration, that could describe half the country or more of it. So this is really much bigger than just Antifa. And to the extent that Antifa means anything, The administration defines it in its own way, which is different than how a lot of people would define anti-fuss.

So it's really important to understand that. I mean, we just did a segment on the Pentagon bombing boats without evidence of them being, as the Trump administration calls them narco-terrorists. They're talking about foreign terrorists, so-called. So here, you're talking about a domestic terrorist network. Are we talking about no trial, no paid for accusations? How does this work? Yeah, I mean, the business of counterterrorism is a very ugly business. It is essentially pre-crime in the sense that you are authorized to go and make investigations

without the usual predicate that you would need of someone having committed a crime or finding evidence that suggests someone committed a crime. In counterterrorism, the theory behind it is that the threat is so great that we need to suspend those ordinary evidentiary standards for premising and investigation. And instead, all you need are these so-called indicators. And the Trump administration is defining those indicators as a lot of these groups we've just been describing, which can apply to millions and millions of Americans. These are very mainstream views, opposition to immigration enforcement in the way in which

it's been carried out this year. So the Dragonnet has gotten far wider. I mean, after 9-11, these tools were pointed at groups like Al-Qaeda and ISIS. And to unfortunately some extent, just American Muslims caught up in this dragged it. But they've widened this to include far larger sets of people. And so what we're really seeing is the global war on terror coming home and becoming a domestic war and terror. Ken Clippenstein, I want to thank you for being with us, investigative reporter. We'll link to your latest piece, FBI making list of American extremist leak memo reveals.

Next up, we speak with former EPA official, Judithank, her new book, the problem with plastic. And we can save ourselves and our planet before it's too late. Stay with us. Well, the Blackjack Day became a walking through that sings her loud and gayly.

He whistled and he sang to the wildwoods ran. And he charmed the heart of a lady, Each are in the heart of a lady. Folk music and Nora Brown performing at Brooklyn Folk Festival. This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org, the War and Peace Report. The Problem with Plastic, How We Can Save Ourselves in Our Planet Before It's Too Late. That's the title of a new book by Judith Anck, former Regional Administrator for the Environmental Protection Agency, now President of Beyond Plastics, joining us to talk about pollution in the environment, our bodies as well, and moving beyond plastics.

Her book's release comes as the United Nations efforts to negotiate a legally binding global treaty on plastic pollution have slowed in plastic, were low on the agenda at the COP 30 UN Climate Summit in Brazil. Next week, the seventh session of the UN Environment Assembly is set to begin in Nairobi, Kenya, with the theme advancing sustainable solutions for a resilient planet. Judith, thank. Welcome back to Democracy Now. It's great to have you with us. So the title is the problem with plastic. Explain what it is. So many problems. It should have been plural. Plastics is a climate change issue because it's made from fossil fuels and 16,000 different.

chemicals. It's a health issue because plastics, little pieces of microplastics have been found in many parts of our bodies. This is an environmental justice issue because plastics are produced in primarily low-income communities of color, places like Cancer Alley in Louisiana. It's also a consumer deception issue because the industry has been telling us we can recycle plastic, which is not true. And finally, the issue that really drew me to this, is we're turning our ocean into a watery landfill with so much plastic getting into the ocean. It's about two giant garbage trucks every minute is dumped into the ocean. And, you know, the ocean is 71% of the world's surface and a major protein source for many of us around the world.

So what happens then to the plastic dumped in the ocean? It gets exposed to sunlight. Then the wave action is almost like a paper cutter. So one plastic water bottle, for instance, becomes hundreds or thousands of little pieces of microplastic, which are eaten by fish, marine life, and it is really an ocean emergency. Chemicals found in plastics have been associated with cancer, nervous system damage, hormone disruption, fertility issues. Explain the issues. 16,000 different chemicals are used to make plastic, including P-FAS chemicals. The forever chemicals

and every plastic product has a different chemical combination. So it's hard to say precisely this plastic food wrapper, for instance, is linked to this health outcome. But we know that many of these chemicals, as you say, cause cancer, their reproductive toxins. And my big concern is the plastic packaging that touches our food and our beverage, especially if it's ever heated. Okay. So that goes to the issue of microwave.

You say don't microwave in plastic, but how many plastic containers say microwave safe? Yeah, it shouldn't. You should not put any food containers in the microwave because the chemicals very likely are leaching into your food. You can kind of taste it, right? And definitely don't use black plastic because that's from recycled electronic waste. So this is so... Wait a second. Just the color, the plastic.

The color of it means it's recycled electronic waste? Very likely. If you have like a black plastic takeout container, when you get home, take it right out of the container and put it on your plate. I really try to avoid black plastic. There have been good studies on this, but any kind of plastic you want to avoid heating. What about putting it in your dishwasher? Not a great idea, particularly if you're using it for food. Because?

Because the chemicals will leave. because it's exposed to heat. Can you talk about microplastics? Microplastics are five millimeters or less, teeny tiny pieces of plastic. Scientists have found microplastics in our blood, our kidneys, our lungs. They've been found in heart arteries, and if it's attached to plaque, you have an increased risk of heart attack, stroke, premature death. Unfortunately, it's crossed the blood-brain barrier.

and has been linked to Alzheimer's and other neurological diseases recently. We need these studies repeated. We also know that microplastics have been found in the human placenta and breast milk. So our babies are being born pre-polluted. And when I talk to legislators that are male, I mentioned that it's also been found in testicles. And they start to pay attention. You know, we just came from the UN Climate Summit, the climate summit in the Amazon. in Brazil. There was a lot of activism there, but very little around plastics. Yeah, you know,

plastics traditionally were made from chemicals and oil, now from chemicals and a waste product of fracking, ethane. So plastics is very much a climate issue. We did a report looking at projection use and disposal of plastics. The greenhouse gas emissions are the equivalent of about 116 coal-fired power plants. There's a separate UN process going on with plastics, but unfortunately, because of the positions of the United States and Saudi Arabia, that process did not reach a conclusion, but it is ongoing. So if you can talk about who's lobbying for plastics and what you think needs to be done, because your book has the word saving ourselves on the planet before it's too late. Yeah, we chose those words purposefully. this is a political science issue, not a science issue. So we're up against Exxon, Shell, Amazon, Dow Chemical, the American Chemistry Council. You show up even at a city council meeting,

and these guys from Washington come flying in with their expensive suits saying why we shouldn't, for instance, ban plastic bags. In Albany, we're working on a comprehensive packaging reduction law. we were outnumbered by corporate lobbyists four to one. Still came very close to passing a packaging reduction bill. So when you're working on plastics, you're going up against the chemical, fossil fuel, plastics industry, and consumer brands. But progress is being made all across the country. People are paying attention to the issue. And I want to emphasize that about half of all plastics have been manufactured worldwide in the last 18 years.

So this is relatively new. I actually remember 18 years ago. So I am hopeful that if people work not just to reduce plastic in their own lives, but get into the political arena, work on new laws, new regulations to reduce plastic. It's in our own self-interest. This is not an ideological issue. In fact, when there's polling on plastic, there's bipartisan support to reduce plastic production. We just need to get more. more people in the arena saying, we don't want babies, for instance, born with microplastics while they're in the placenta and then consuming breast milk. Judith, thank you were a regional administrator of the EPA. Talk about Trump's attacks on the EPA and regulations. ProPublica has a new piece out today. Under former chemical industry insiders, Trump EPA nearly doubles amount of formaldehyde considered safe to inhale.

This is the worst EPA has ever been. They're no longer protecting the environment. They're no longer protecting public health. You have people from the chemical industry at EPA making policy. Lee Zeldin, the head of the EPA, is the worst EPA administrator in the history of the agency. It's going to take decades to rebuild. Places like Cancer Alley, where plastic is produced in Texas, people are being poisoned. every day, and the EPA is doing nothing to protect health. It's really a national embarrassment

and something where the states need to step in, and we haven't seen that yet. The California Attorney General has sued ExxonMobil for its recycling claims? Yeah, Attorney General Rob Bonta sued ExxonMobil for not telling the truth about plastics recycling in September of 2024. The plastics industry tells us, don't worry about all the plastics you're using, just put it in the recycling bin. But plastics recycling has been an abysmal failure. People should keep recycling paper, metal, glass cardboard, but the plastic recycling rate is only 5 to 6% nationwide because plastics are made from so many different chemicals, different colors, different plastic polymers that they cannot be recycled together, unlike other material.

the policies more around that make a difference from single-use plastic vans and explain what that is bottle bills, extended producer responsibility laws to reuse and refill systems. So our book, the problem with plastic, has model bills that people can work on at the local or state level. We are alert enough not to be trying this at the national level. All we're doing in Washington is playing whack-a-mole, trying to beat back bad things. But communities can ban plastic bags. You can have policies called skip the stuff. So when you get takeout food, you don't automatically get the plastic utensils and the straws.

You have to ask for it. The bottle bill is the first bill I ever worked on as a college student with NYPRG. It puts a refundable deposit on soda and beer and water bottles. You bring it back. And that's the only recycling success story with plastics is the plastic bottles do get recycled. But the major policy reform we need is called extended producer responsibility, where companies that produce all this plastic need to take some responsibility. We have a model bill that takes it further and requires, for instance,

that all single-use packaging be reduced by 50% over 10 years and that the most toxic chemicals used in plastics like PFS chemicals, lead, cadmium, formaldehyde, not be allowed to be used in packaging. I want to end with where you started, your dedication. You write, by design, low-income people in communities of color bear the burden of plastics. The destructive web of plastics gathers in their neighborhoods, rivers, air, and bodies. We dedicate this book to those living in the shadow of plastics facilities in Louisiana, Texas, Appalachia, and elsewhere in the sincere belief that they should live in a world,

beyond plastics, and that such a world is within our reach. Final 20 seconds. Thank you, Amy. I mean, the environmental justice issues are quite severe. People are getting sick living near these plastic production facilities. Johns Hopkins did a study saying the cancer rate in cancer alley is seven times the national average. So even if you don't live in those communities, by reducing plastic and getting laws to reduce plastic, we're helping our sisters and brothers in cancer.

in Texas and Appalachia. Judith Thank, I want to thank you for being with us. Former EPA Regional Administrator, President of Beyond Plastics. Her new book is The Problem with Plastic, How We Can Save Ourselves on Our Planet, Before It's Too Late. And that does it for our show. I'm Amy Goodman. This is another edition of Democracy Now.