Democracy Now! Audio - Democracy Now! 2026-01-08 Thursday

Episode Date: January 8, 2026

Democracy Now! Thursday, January 8, 2026

From New York, this is Democracy Now. They are already trying to spin this as an action of self-defense. Having seen the video of myself, I want to tell everybody directly. That is bull-h-h-h-hreact. This was an agent recklessly using power that resulted in somebody dying, getting killed. And I have a message for ICE. To ICE, get the . . . out of Minneapolis. In Minnesota, thousands gather for a vigil Wednesday evening after an ICE agent kills a legal observer in her car.

Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frye decried the shooting, rejecting claims by the Trump administration that the agent acted in self-defense will go to Minneapolis for the latest. Then the U.S. has seized two more oil tankers with links to Venezuela, days after the U.S. attacked Venezuela and abducted President Nicolas Maduro along with his wife. As you've seen today, two more ships were seized. We are in the midst right now and, in fact, about to execute on a deal to take all the oil. oil. They have oil that is stuck in Venezuela. They can't move it because of our quarantine and because it's sanctioned. We are going to take between 30 and 50 million dollars of oil.

We'll go to Caracas for the latest and speak with a Venezuelan economist. All that and more coming out. Welcome to Democracy Now. Democracy Now.org, the Warren Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman. In Minnesota, thousands gathered in a Minneapolis neighborhood Wednesday evening for a candlelight vigil to mourn a 37-year-old Twin Cities resident who was shot and killed by an ICE agent earlier in the day shortly after she dropped off her six-year-old son at school. Renee Nicole Good was a mother of three who lived in South Minneapolis with her partner, just blocks from where a massed ice officer fired three shots at her at point-blank range.

Goode's mother described her as loving, forgiving, affectionate, and an amazing human being. She was killed blocks from the site of George Floyd's murder in 2020 by Minneapolis police officers, a killing that sparked protests internationally under the banner of Black Lives Matter. Video of goods killing quickly spread across the internet sparking protests and demands for accountability. The footage shows mass ice agents approaching a vehicle being driven by goods, screaming for her to get out of the effing car, using profanity, attempting to pull her driver's side door open, As Good backs up her car slightly, then attempts to drive past the officers, a masked agent pulls out a gun and fires three rounds into Goods vehicle, which then crashes into a nearby car. Another video shows the aftermath, outrage residents, including a doctor, screaming at the agents to let them check the mortally wounded driver for a pulse while she's seen bleeding, limp and slumped against her car's blood-soaked airbag.

Can I go check a pole? No. Back up. Now. I'm a position. I don't care. We got EMS coming. I get it. Just give us a second. We have medics on feet. We have our own medics.

Where are they? Where are they? How can I relax? You just killed my neighbor. Witnesses say medics responding to the shooting were forced to approach on foot after federal agents obstructed their access to the scene while Pepper's spruits. bystanders who protested the killing. Good was ultimately brought to the Hennepin County Medical Center where she was pronounced

dead on arrival. Department of Homeland Security Secretary Christy Noem accused Good of weaponizing her vehicle to commit a, quote, active domestic terrorism. And in a social media post, President Trump falsely claimed Good had, quote, violently, willfully and viciously ran over the ICE officer who seems to have shot her in self-defense, unquote. Trump went on to say, quote, it's hard to believe he's alive, but is now recovering in the hospital, unquote. Video from the scene shows the ICE agent walking away after the shooting with no signs of injuries. Minnesota officials condemn those remarks. Democratic Governor Tim Walls issued in order to prepare to mobilize the Minnesota National Guard calling goods killing, preventable, and unnecessary.

This is Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Fry. They are already trying to spin this. an action of self-defense. Having seen the video of myself, I want to tell everybody directly. That is bull-h-h-h-h-h-h-h. This was an agent recklessly using power that resulted in somebody dying, getting killed. To ICE, get the a-out of Minneapolis. We do not want you here.

This comes after the Trump administration. ordered a surge of 2,000 ICE agents to the Twin Cities this week, after President Trump called the region's large Somali community garbage and accused state officials of failing to root out fraud and social services programs. The killing of Renee Good was at least the ninth time federal immigration officers have fired on people since September. Five people have died in mass deportation operations since President Trump retook the White House. after headlines will go to Minneapolis for the latest. Illinois Democratic Congress member Robin Kelly has announced plans to impeach Homeland Security Secretary Christy Noem in the wake of Wednesday's fatal shooting by an ICE officer, calling her an incompetent leader in a disgrace to our democracy.

Kelly's three articles of impeachment alleged Nome has engaged in obstruction of justice, violation of public trust, and self-dealing. Kelly wrote in a statement, quote, from Chicago to Charlotte to Los Angeles to Minneapolis, Secretary Nome is violating the Constitution while ruining and ending lives and separating families. It's one thing to be incompetent and dangerous. It's impeachable to break the rule of law, she said. The Trump administration's announced plans to control sales of Venezuela's oil indefinitely, as it demands Venezuela's government cut ties with U.S. adversaries, including Cuba, China, Iran, and Russia. On Wednesday, White House Press Secretary Carolyn Levitt said the U.S. would continue to dictate policy to Venezuela's interim leaders after the abduction of President Nicolas Maduro

in a bloody U.S. military raid on Caracas early Saturday morning. The president is fully deploying his peace through strength foreign policy agenda. So we're continuing to be in close coordination with the interim authorities. and their decisions are going to continue to be dictated by the United States of America. On Wednesday, U.S. forces seized two tankers linked to Venezuelan oil experts, exports, one in the Caribbean, the other a Russian flag tanker in the North Atlantic that the U.S. had pursued for weeks. In response, Russia accused the U.S. of violating maritime law, calling for the release of the ship's crew. Their capture came as Vice President J.D. Vance reiterated the Trump administration would have complete control of Venezuela's oil reserves.

In Caracas, interim President Elsie Rodriguez defended plans to cede control of Venezuela's oil to the United States. Venezuela is open to energy relations where all parties benefit, where economic cooperation is very well determined in commercial companies. contracts. On Wednesday, President Trump told the New York Times he expects the United States will be running Venezuela for years to come. Meanwhile, Venezuela's interior minister said 100 people were killed in the U.S. attack that removed President Maduro from power on Saturday. We'll have more on Venezuela later in the broadcast. President Trump praised Colombia's President Gustavo Petro after the two leaders held him more than one. hour-long phone call Wednesday.

It was a stark shift of tone after Trump previously threatened to attack Colombia and called the Colombian leader a sick man involved in the cocaine trade. After Wednesday's call, Trump said it was his great honor to hold the conversation, adding he's planning

to invite President Petro to the White House. Petro responded from a rally in Bogota. Peace is found through dialogue, and that's why I accept President Trump's proposal to talk. We'll see what comes of it. I'll keep insisting that an alliance is possible in clean energy, because it brings peace and life and love. Colombia knows how to take advantage of peace. President Trump announced Wednesday the U.S. will withdraw from dozens of international and

United Nations entities, including the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change, the UNFCCC. The move would make it difficult for a future presidential administration to rejoin the 2015 Paris Climate Agreement. In a memo to senior administration officials, Trump also said the U.S. will quit participation in U.N. women, which works for gender equality around the world, and the UN Population Fund, which is focused on family planning and health of mothers and children in more than 150 countries. In Sudan, at least 13 people have been killed, including eight children after a drone strike, hit a house in the city of El Obede. That's according to the Sudan doctor's network. The group says it's likely carried out by the rapid support forces paramilitary group. Meanwhile, several Sudanese women recounted harrowing stories of rape by the RSF to Al Jazeera.

A senior doctor revealed 14 infants were raped. The UN describes the situation in Sudan is the world's worst. humanitarian crisis as the civil war between the Sudanese army and the RSF has been raging for nearly three years. More than 11 million people have been displaced, and over 150,000 people have been killed. Israeli forces killed an 11-year-old Palestinian girl, Hamza Hosa, in northern Gaza on Thursday, and shot another child in the Zaytoon neighborhood of Gaza City. On Wednesday, Israel bombed a residential home in the Altufa neighborhood, east of Gaza City, killing three people.

The strikes occurred west of the Yellow Line, which confines the Palestinian population as part of the U.S. brokered ceasefire. Since the truce took effect on October 10th, Israel's killed more than 420 Palestinians and injured more than 1,100. This comes as Israel cleared the final hurdle to begin construction on the E1 settlement project near Jerusalem that would split the occupied West Bank in two. The project has been under consideration for more than two decades, but had been put on hold due to U.S. pressure. Meanwhile, U.N. human rights chief, Volkarturk, said Palestinians in the occupied West Bank face apartheid.

It's the first time a U.N. human rights chief has used the term. Whether accessing water, school, rushing to hospital, visiting family or friends, harvesting olives, every aspect of life for Palestinians. in the West Bank is controlled and curtailed by Israel's discriminatory laws, policies, and practices. Israel is violating international law, requiring states to prohibit and eradicate racial segregation and apartheid.

President Trump Wednesday called for increasing U.S. military spending to $1.5 trillion in 27, up from the 2026 military budget set at $901 billion. In a post on truth social, President Trump said, quote, this will allow us to build the dream military that we've long been entitled to, and more importantly, that will keep us safe and secure regardless of foe, unquote. This comes as President Trump has threatened military action in Greenland, Iran, Mexico, Cuba,

and Colombia following the U.S. attack on Venezuela. And the House Oversight Committee has secured subpoenas to seek testimony from billionaire Les Wexner and two executors of the estate of convicted serial sex offender, Jeffrey Epstein. The subpoenas come as the Justice Department has released just over 12,000 documents from more than 2 million files related to Epstein, which amounts to less than 1% of its files. That's despite a law passed by Congress ordering the DOJ to release the vast majority of files by December 19th. U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi claimed in a federal court filing Monday, the DOJ's supposed efforts to protect the identities of Epstein survivors had slowed the process. And those are some of the headlines. This is Democracy Now. Democracy Now.org. the War and Peace Report. Coming up, we go to Minneapolis.

We're a nice agent killed a woman, Renee Nicole Good, on Wednesday. Stay with us. I daydream of time lying tons And who would dare drive a knife through the future Of their very own young And who would dare set fire to the love to the love? of the future generations. Oh, is there any of this madness to be undone? Or is the web a change?

Finally returned by Marie Sue, performing at the Brooklyn Folk Festival. This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org. I'm Amy Goodman. And I'm Nareem Sheikh. Welcome to our listeners and viewers across the country and around the world. In Minneapolis, thousands gathered for a candlelight vigil Wednesday evening to mourn the death of 37-year-old Renee Nicole Good, a mother of three who was fatally shot hours earlier by an ice agent at near point-blank range. Video of the shooting shows massed ice agents approaching her vehicle, screaming for her to get out of the effing car, using profanity, and attempting to force open her driver's side door.

As Good attempts to drive past the officers, a masked agent pulls his firearm and fires three rounds at good. The shooting comes after the Trump administration deployed over 2,000 ICE agents to Minnesota. Trump administration officials claim the agent acted in self-defense, but local officials, including Minnesota Governor Tim Walls and Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Fry, rejected that claim. This is Mayor Frye speaking Wednesday. We've dreaded this moment since the early stages of this ice presence in Minneapolis. They are not here to cause safety in this city. What they are doing is not to provide safety in America.

What they are doing is causing chaos and distrust. They're ripping families apart. They're sowing chaos on our streets, and in this case, quite literally killing people. They are already trying to spin this as an action of self-defense. Having seen the video of myself, I want to tell everybody directly. That is bull-h-h-h-h. This was an agent recklessly using power that resulted in somebody dying, getting killed. There's little, I can say, again, that'll make this situation better.

But I do have a message for our community, for our city, and I have a message for ICE. To ICE, get the a bit out of Minneapolis. We do not want you here. According to press accounts, Renee Nicole Good was shot shortly after she dropped her six-year-old son at school. She was killed less than a mile from the site of George Floyd's merger. in 2020 by a Minneapolis police officer, a killing that sparked protests internationally under the banner Black Lives Matter. Democratic lawmakers have accused President Trump and Homeland Security Secretary Christy

Noem of spreading misinformation about the shooting. Department of Homeland Security Secretary Christy Noem accused good of weaponizing her vehicle to commit a, quote, act of domestic terrorism, unquote. In a post on truth social, President Trump claimed, good, quote, violently, willfully and viciously ran over the ICE officer. Chump went on to say, quote, it's hard to believe he's alive, but is now recovering in the hospital, unquote. Video from the scene shows the ICE agent walking away after shooting with no signs of injury. However, video from the aftermath shows outrage. Minneapolis residents, including a doctor, screaming at the agents to let them help Renee after

her crash into a parked vehicle after the shooting. Can I go check a pole? No. Back up. Now. I'm a position. I don't care. We understand.

We got EMS coming. I get it. Just give us a second. We have medics on feet. We have our own medics. Where are they? Where are they? How can I relax?

You just killed my fucking mess. neighbor. At a vigil in Minneapolis last night, residents decried the shooting of Renee Nicole Good and the Trump administration's decision to send 2,000 ICE agents to the Twin Cities. The surge in agents began shortly after President Trump called the region's large Somali community garbage and accused state officials of failing to root out fraud in social services programs. This is Mustafa Hassan speaking at the vigil. It's important, honestly, it's just one. We lost a civilian slash a human being.

You know, we all live in a small world. It doesn't matter what color or race you are. I'm here, you know, even though I would be fine and dealing with. We had somebody who also, that was in our community, who passed away. And that's what we're here for. I'm here to support the cops. It's difficult now. A lot of people are moving around scared.

They don't know if they're going to be actually going to their work or school or wherever the destination they need to get to safely and make it back home without being stopped and going through all that process. The killing of Renee Nicole Good was at least the ninth time federal immigration agents have fired on people since last September. all in their cars. Five people have died in mass deportation operations since President Trump ramped up the ICE operations when he retook the White House. For more, we're joined by two guests in Minneapolis, who were on site shortly after the ICE shooting of Renee Good. Robin Wansley's, a Democratic Socialist Minneapolis City Council member, longtime Minneapolis activist. This week, She was elected minority leader, marking the first time Democratic Socialists have had a leadership role on the City Council. We're also joined by Edwin Torres de Santiago Network Manager for the Immigrant Defense Network, which monitors ICE activity and responds to community needs after someone is taken.

They've received thousands of requests from Minnesotans who want to volunteer as constitutional observers of ICE in Minneapolis. We welcome you both to Democracy Now. City Council Member Raman Wansley, let's begin with you. Talk about what happened soon after you got there. You heard about the killing and you came to this area of Minneapolis and respond to what's taken place, what President Trump wrote, what the mayor and the governor are saying. Yeah. It's been a very challenging moment for our city, and that was put on full display yesterday after thousands of us received the word and also saw the video footage of Renee Good being shot and killed by federal ICE agents.

And I think the biggest takeaway to share with the public is fully in alignment with both Mayor Fry and Governor Waltz is we must refute this. the blatant lies that the Trump administration is looking to put forward to cover themselves and enacting what was a blatant murder of a civilian. And a civilian who were simply making sure not only that her child made it to school safely, but made sure that her neighbors who are currently being terrorized and attacked by federal ICE agents could also have that same privilege. And she was shot and killed while caring for the smallest members of our country. community. And I think for anything, for anyone watching this to know that if this could happen

to a 37-year-old mother, this could happen to you in your city. This, and we can't accept Trump's administration's lies of them going after bad guys. No, they're going after everyone, especially those who are in opposition to the cruelty campaign that they are waging through. federal ICE agents all across our city. So I'm absolutely standing in solidarity with our residents, with our elected officials who are calling for the immediate removal of ICE officials from Minneapolis. And not only that, we need the federal agent responsible for Renee's murder to be arrested and for local ownership of the investigation to proceed because we cannot trust the federal

government to investigate themselves when they are the cause of this travesty and harm. So we need to have local ownership over that investigation and prosecution of being one agent, several agents who were involved in the murder of one of our beautiful civilians, a mother who should not have lost her life while making sure that her children and those of many of our neighbors made sure that they could make it to school in the morning. And Edwin Torres de Santiago, you received a text message Wednesday morning and you raced to the scene. Could you describe what you saw when you got there and who you spoke to and what they told you? For sure. That morning, we were patrolling the western suburbs of the Twin Cities. Around 8.30 or so, we were just getting done patrolling places like Edina and other places I've been also hit by ICE agents. We were making our way to Bloomington.

around 915, when I got a message from an observer that happens to have been walking on a morning walk between 34th and Portland, with the text message just being someone was shot. We did everything possible to send constitutional observers to that area quickly. Within minutes of sending the alerts, and that's something that the Immigrant Defense Network does, we are a coalition of over 100 organizations across the state of Minnesota. We've been responding to ICE activity every single corner. Just now, earlier this morning, dozens of agents are in St. Cloud. Just yesterday evening, they're in St. James, and they're everywhere, from Red Wing to Duluth to the Twin Cities, and the metro has been hit hearty. but also in places like Mankato and in small towns like Norsefield.

They're everywhere. So when I and the rest of the team got notified, we stand out an alert for people to be safe on 34th in Portland, and if you were a trained Constitution observer to show up. I arrived closer to 940. I saw them wield the body into an ambulance. At that point, there was a handful of, of vehicles, more were coming, federal agents, and more were coming. What ended up happening

was 40 plus agents that we counted. Over 20 different vehicles of federal agents showed up to the corner of 34th in Portland where this incident took place. They were there, supposed to doing an HSI investigation, but what ended up happening is that one of our neighbors got shot and killed that morning. We've been seeing this terror and chaos, so much chaos that all schools and activities in Minneapolis today and tomorrow have been canceled. This is not normal. We've been seeing people terrorized all over the state and all over the country under the guise of protection. This is not protection. This is a campaign of fear, confusion. Our businesses are impacted. They're closing day by day. My own father doesn't feel

comfortable stepping out of our home for months now. 2,000 agents were sent to our communities over the weekend, but let's not forget we've had over 600 agents for over six weeks now. This is one of the largest deployments in any American city and any American state by this federal administration. Since December 1st, up until this week, nearly a thousand people have been taken. And if we believe and trust the numbers reported,

over 150 people alone were taken on Monday. It was this increase of enforcements. People are afraid. Now they're even more afraid. Was one of our neighbors being shot and killed. And Edwin, could you talk about the communities that are being especially targeted, given Trump's comments,

his obvious animus towards the Somali community in particular? We are Somali neighbors, our brothers and sisters, our undocumented people, our Latino folks, everyone who looks like us, let's be honest, it's who they're targeting. They're questioning Uber drivers for doing their job.

They're questioning workers. They're looking for people who may look foreign, who may sound foreign, and are not afraid to literally ask, and we saw a video of an Uber driver just yesterday after the killing of Nicole Good going to Bloomington area and questioning a Somali Uber driver saying, well, you sound different. You sound like you're not from here. And literally said you sound like you're from Africa. See those videos. That is racial profiling under the guise of protection. That is our communities being terrorized. And our Somali Muslim

community members have been hit with so much hateful rhetoric and Islamophobia. their businesses are being impacted and their communities are being impacted for six weeks straight we've been sending constitutional observers to over 30 different mosques throughout the entire state of Minnesota so people can just worship in peace

that is not the America and that is not what Minnesota's believe of peace and protection this is chaos, this is confusion and now it is taking the lives of people on the streets but also we know of people that are being terrorized

and many who have died at the hands of federal agents once they're in the detention centers. I wanted to go to Minneapolis resident Emily Heller, who witnessed the ICE agent shoot Renee Good and told CNN Good did not weaponize her car as ICE claimed, as Gnome claimed. They seem like children. They seem like untrained people.

And so that agent was obviously spooked. because he had just killed someone, and it was very obvious to everyone who had witnessed it all that she would not make it. My life is forever changed from having witnessed this, and I just can't let this narrative that it was self-defense go any further, because it's absolutely not what it was. So city council member Robin Wansley, what about the investigation here? Shockingly, the Homeland Security Secretary, instead of saying we'll investigate this, she and President Trump completely contradicted the video.

I mean, President Trump saying that Robin Good ran over the ICE agent who shot her at almost point-blank range. We see him walk away holstering his gun. He says he was hospitalized and barely survived. Yeah. Again, these are just more bladed lies coming from the Trump administration because what their ultimate aim is, normalize that this. They want to set this as the new norm for their, their operations, be it under Homeland Security, be it through ICE. They want to essentially say that we can circumvent your civil liberties. We can shoot civilians at our own discretion. And guess what?

Residents. Guess what? U.S. citizens. Guess what? General public, you have nothing to say about it. There's no accountability that you can have over us because we are federal agency. And this is why it's so important that as, you know, the general public supporters of the movements and organizing that's happening here in Minneapolis for you all to help us in raising this banner, raising this call to action, amongst the Democratic Party, amongst labor unions, amongst any organization that has said that they are committed to human rights, civil rights, social justice, equity,

anything other than that nature to make sure that there is responsibility, that there is a judicial proceeding and one that is not led by the Trump administration, an independent investigation, and a full, again, judicial proceeding over the federal agents involved in this. Because again, this happening here,

Minneapolis sets a tone for this to play out in many other cities, where they can go in and kill civilians without any due process. And that's what we saw. They're rushing as they did with the federal agent who shot and killed Renee Good in the morning. They immediately removed that agent or the agents involved from the scene and immediately went into public narrative mode. And they're trying to blame the victims, which is what they've been doing with this whole campaign of fear and cruelty. They're blaming regular people. And Edwin framed it so eloquently. These are people who are simply trying to work, people who are trying to make rent, people who are trying to take their kids to school who participate in our communities.

They want others to believe that these are enemies, that these are threats to our collective safety when the ultimate threat is the Trump administration and their ICE agents that they're sending in to terrorize our communities. And it's up. to us to say, no, we will not stand for this. And I am proud of our Minneapolis community that has a demonstrated track record of showing that when one of our neighbors are under attack, when our government institutions aren't protecting our residents and our most vulnerable communities, we will organize on their behalf. We will organize for justice. We will organize for accountability until we see those things be enacted. And we have no shorter expectations in this

case and making sure that Renee Good and her family and all the other immigrant communities who have been terrorized and civilians who've been terrorized by ICE agents being in our city until they're held accountable. And if that needs to happen in our own backyard, if it's through their attorney general, if it's through our local state lawmakers, we need to put every proposal on the table to make sure that accountability and justice is delivered for Renee Good. and that ICE agents are sent their packing

sent packing out of our city and out of our state. And also at the local level, we need to be exhausting every tool that we have. One of the things that I'm bringing forward in the coming days, as Edwin highlighted, people are afraid to leave their homes

to go to work, to go to school, to go to their places of worship. But in response to that, we're seeing February 1st approach. Rent is still due for thousands of our residents, and they have no ability to make that rent. And no residents should be forced to choose between keeping a roof over their head or having to leave their homes to try to work and risk being kidnapped and adopted and if not killed by a federal ICE agent. So my office is going to be bringing forward an eviction moratorium where I hope to own the support of my fellow colleagues, the mayor, as well as our general public to make sure that.

that our residents can shelter and play safely and don't have to worry about making rent, having to pay their rent, keeping their roof over their heads and their family's heads. That is the smallest thing of relief that the city can extend to our residents right now, who are fearful to leave their homes and justifiably so while ICE is here in our communities. Well, Minneapolis City Council, you've signed, put together a statement, calling for ICE to leave the city and the state, as have other local and state officials. Could you explain what kind of authority the city or the state have in determining whether federal agents should be there or not?

I think the authority is the welfare of our residents, the welfare of the people that we are taking, We've taken an oath to serve and protect. Right now, the welfare of our residents of the general public being here in Minneapolis and all across the state of Minnesota, as when laid out, how this is impacting residents beyond the metro. It's very clear our communities are being destabilized. They're being terrorized by the presence of ICE here. And they are the imminent threat. They are the domestic terrorists right now in our communities that should be removed immediately.

And whatever authorities that we can leverage, I don't care if it has to be legally. Again, politically, whatever needs to happen, there are elected officials all across the country since Trump took office and decided that he would leverage immigration as his tool of division. And as the spear of his campaign for cruelty to distract us from the fact that they are robbing us every chance that they can of our basic needs, of our ability to have a quality of life in this country, since they've done that, it's important for us to look at the other cities that elected officials have used creative means to make sure that ICE and any of the, the, the, the, the faces or the extensions of the Trump administration to make them know that they are not welcome in that city. And we've done some of that. We've said we're passing policies to let you know you can't stage in our public spaces. Maybe we need to ramp up enforcement of that using our own law enforcement to say, if you are here, no, cars will be told.

You will be reminded every chance that we can get that you are not welcomed here. You will be denied access to the bathrooms and all those things. You have the mayor saying, get the F out of this city. Do you think we'll be seeing Minneapolis police arresting ICE agents? I think that is the dream. That is the dream. Even with Governor Walts noting that the National Guard is on potential standby, the deployment of the National Guard or any law enforcement agency in our community,

if they are being asked to show up in our streets, They should be asked to show up to protect civilians from ICE agents. Edwin, we give you the last word. We have 10 seconds. Right now, all I want to say for any listener and viewers is that we're under so much fear. And I am tired of living in fear in a community that I love, in a country that I love. My families are immigrants. We're not criminals.

and we just want to live our lives. Edwin Torres di Santiago. I want to thank you so much for being with us from the Immigrant Defense Network in Minneapolis. And we want to thank Minneapolis City Council member, Robin Wansley. This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org. Next up, the USS sees two more oil tankers with links to Venezuela days after the U.S. attack Venezuela

and abducted the president. Stay with us. Who were you to try to find me? And you know I wasn't wanting to stay. You hold me close and I fall away. When you hold When you hold I lose

I lose my way Fall away by Emma Rose Jackson. This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org. I'm Amy Goodman with Nirmieh. U.S. forces have seized two more oil tankers with links to Venezuela days after the U.S. attacked Venezuela and abducted President Nicolas Maduro along with his wife. One of the oil tankers was seized in the Caribbean.

The other, a Russian flag tanker, was intercepted in the North Atlantic. In response, Russia accused the U.S. of violating maritime law, calling for the release of the ship's crew. This comes as the Trump administration has announced plans to control sales of Venezuela's oil indefinitely. On Wednesday, President Trump told the New York Times in an extended interview, the U.S. may run the country for years. Trump also claimed the interim Venezuelan government is, quote, giving us everything that we feel

is necessary, unquote. This is Secretary of State Marco Rubio. speaking Wednesday. As you've seen today, two more ships were seized. We are in the midst right now and, in fact, about to execute on a deal to take all the oil. They have oil that is stuck in Venezuela. They can't move it because of our quarantine and because it's sanctioned. We are going to take between 30 and 50 million barrels of oil.

We're joined now by two guests. From Caracas Venezuela, we're joined by Carlos Ron, former Venezuelan diplomat who served as vice minister for North America from 2018 to last year under the government of Nicolas Maduro, co-coordinator of Nuesra, America, Office of the Tri-Continental Institute for Social Research. He's joining us from Caracas, his new piece for Counterpunch headlined, the current situation in Venezuela, a government in charge, a people resilient. And we're joined by Francisco Rodriguez, Venezuelan economist, senior research fellow at the Center for Economic and Policy Research,

professor of public and international affairs at the University of Denver. He has a piece in the New York Times today, How Machado, lost her chance to lead Venezuela. His recent book, The Collapse of Venezuela, Scorched Earth Politics and Economic Decline, 2012 to 2020. He's a former head of Venezuela's Congressional Budget Office. Welcome you both to Democracy Now, Francisco Rodriguez. Let's begin with you. Start off by responding to the U.S. bombing of Venezuela, killing, according to Venezuela now, about a hundred people abducting Maduro and his wife. You say this is unprecedented in U.S. history. Can you respond? Well, yes. I mean, more than U.S. history, being able to extract

a head of state from a country to essentially kidnap that in the head of state and take it to another country is something that there are no clear historical precedents of. There are invasions. There are invasions. are occupations like Panama, like Iraq, where the head of state is ultimately captured. Those are essentially wars where there's a losing side. But this is different. This is a decapitation without regime change. So the political system in Venezuela remains intact. It's just lost its leader. But these political systems have a capacity to adapt to the losses of leadership. Of course, you do have a very different component, which is that it's not just that they lost their leader by chance. It's that the U.S. is threatening the country that if it doesn't play

according to its plans, it can do that to the current leader, it can or it can effectively use its force. The U.S. has leveled a credible threat. And that is the reason that Venezuelan authorities are acquiescing to U.S. demands of control over the country's oil revenues. Well, you said, Francisco, in another interview, that, quote, you found it interesting that the United States had such an easy time capturing Maduro and his wife while they slept that strongly suggests there was some type of internal collaboration from the Venezuelan forces that were guarding him. Could you elaborate on that?

Who do you think was responsible for working with the U.S.? Yes, so there are protocols. Any government and much more so the Venezuelan government that has been dealing with conspiracies could attempt for more than two decades, there are protocols for what you do with a head of state when, for example, you're under military attack. So the idea that you can actually be bombing a city and then catch the president in his bed, sleeping and die, says that there was a very basic failure, and this opens up a lot of questions. Now, we also know that there are about 100, by the Venezuelan government's account, persons who died in

during this raid, 32 of them are Cubans, and these are part of the security detail that guarded President Maduro. Now, that to me also suggests, I mean, that disproportionate rate of Cuban deaths suggests that something happened in the military, where effectively one sector decided that it was going to back this. And then we have essentially less than 48 hours later, the new government saying that it's going to collaborate with the United States. In fact, it first issued a statement, of course, condemning the abduction of Maduro. But on the second day, it issued a statement

that could have been issued by any government in the region that actually read more like a statement of a center-right- or right-wing government of the region saying we want good relations with the U.S. and we're willing to collaborate. So all of this is the type of pattern. Now, I'm not saying that I have proof of this. I'm just looking at patterns and I'm looking at behaviors, which are very much those that you tend to see when there's a palace coup.

And so Carlos Ron, if you could respond to this raid and the abduction of former president Maduro and his wife, and also the response, what the response has been in Venezuela, many have been protesting calling for his release, but many in exile have been supporting what's happened because they were opposed to Maduro for various reasons. Well, yes, thank you. You know, first I think there's still a lot of speculation about, you know, this idea of intrigues, of internal intrigues. But what I see from here on the ground in Venezuela is actually a very, you know, cohesive, you know,

display of the Bolivarian Revolution's leadership. I mean, you don't see any fractures. You don't see, you actually saw every important leader, whether it be political leader, a member of assembly, or military leader, supporting acting president, Del Cid Rodriguez. But also, ever since the attack, there have been demonstrations by different sectors of Venezuela society in, like you said, in favor of the releasing of president.

in Maduro, bringing him back home, and in support of the government, which is actually that is what I think is very atypical in any case of this type of intervention. I mean, this was an act of war by the United States, with no doubt. I don't think this is different from an act of war. I mean, I think this was clearly a violation of the UN Charter. This is a violation of, you know, Article 51, Article 1 and 2. you know, the president of Venezuela is a prisoner of war. Now, I think what is important to see is how Venezuela has, you know, united.

This has been something that inside Venezuela has helped, I think, bring Venezuelans together in rejection of this U.S. attack. You talk about people outside of Venezuela, and these are people that were not, you know, the bombs didn't fly over their heads. I think that you even see that there's even people. people here in Venezuela that were not members of the government, that were not government supporters, that are people that have been opposition leaders or militants, you don't see them in the streets, you know, celebrating or doing anything of the sort. You actually see

a lot of people that are, you know, frustrated, are angry and are upset about this incursion from the United States. I wanted to ask Francisco Rodriguez about the oil, about the seizing most recently of these latest oil tankers, one with a Russian flag, about President Trump saying that the U.S. is going to run Venezuela for the indefinite future, and it'll be funded by taking Venezuela's oil, the latest, the 30 to 50 million barrels of oil that the U.S. will just take worth something like $2 billion. Yeah. Well, the details are still unclear as to exactly how it is that this is going to work.

Effectively, the Venezuelan economy runs on the revenues from oil sales. Oil is more than 90% of the country's exports. It's around half of its fiscal revenue. This economy does not operate. I cannot do very basic things, including even feeding its population without these oil revenues. Now, President Trump has effectively said that, and his cabinet have said that these funds are going to be deposited in offshore accounts and that the U.S. is going to be deciding how they're going to be spent. But unless they want to cause a famine in Venezuela, this money has to come back to Venezuela to fund Venezuela imports of essentials, of food, of medicines, of agricultural inputs, of inputs for restoring the oil sector. it's electricity sector.

So what seems to be taking place is something that is actually similar to the Iraqi Oil for Food Program between 1996 and 2003. At that time, it was the UN Security Council that imposed it, and it was the United Nations as an organization that effectively ran it, and what that implied was supervision over how the funds were spent. Of course, in that case, the idea was that. that the role would be to ensure that they were spent on humanitarian goods, on humanitarian imports.

Here, President Trump is being much more explicit that he cares about these imports coming from American companies so that it's a way to ensure that Venezuela, that the money that comes out of Venezuela is actually spent on contract in the U.S. corporate sector. Well, Francisco, I want to ask you about something that the New York Times reported in October. which is that the Maduro regime had offered a deal to the U.S. to avoid conflict, which included, quote, opening up all existing and future oil and gold projects to American companies, giving preferential contracts to American businesses, reverse the flow of Venezuelan oil exports from China to the United States, and slashes countries' energy and mining contracts with Chinese, Iranian, and Russian firms. So if that's the case, why do you think Trump refused that deal then, since it seems effectively that's what he's getting now because that's what he wants? Exactly. And the answer has to be he wanted to get rid of Maduro. And I think that there were political reasons to get rid of Maduro. Maduro had become essentially the symbol of the Latin American, evil Latin American dictator. That's how he was perceived.

Venezuela's current leader, Desirodericas, is not perceived that way. She's just not known. She's also not linked to allegations of drug trafficking or of crimes against humanity or of political repression to the extent, and in the very direct way that Maduro or the Osado Cabello, for example, were. So I think that the choice was twofold. One of them is to do this.

And President Trump actually was clear about this. He offered Maduro a possibility of leaving the country peacefully to essentially go into exile. Maduro rejected it. It's very clear that he wanted Maduro out of the way. And I think also it became a symbolic price. I mean, being able to carry out this operation, extract Maduro, put him behind bars in New York. I think that this is the type of symbolism that President Trump craves and seeks, where he can be seen as a strong and forceful leader, who's,

are able to go after the bad guys or the people who are perceived as being the bad guys. I want to turn to a clip of Venezuelan President Maduro in an exclusive interview with Spanish journalist Ignacio Almanette just days before Maduro's kidnapping. The interview was filmed December 31st as Maduro drove a car through the streets of Caracas with his wife, Silia Flores, sitting in the back seat, a red hat with the words, No War, Yes, Peace, written in white, also resting in the backseat of the car. During the interview, Maduro said, quote, the American people should know that here they have a friend,

a friendly, peaceful nation, and a friendly government too. Let's go to the clip. The far right and the economic threats and blockade campaigns of the U.S. Empire, one of the objectives now the attacks on oil tankers and Venezuelan oil is to once again disrupt monetary life and the balance that we have already achieved. Not war, not crazy war. We want peace, we want peace, we want respect for international law, and we hope that in the coming weeks and months,

the American and global society will be able to generate pressure to end these threats. So I wanted to get Carlos Ron to respond to that. And also, why President Trump chose to stick with the government that you were a part of, Of course, the Maduro government, Delci Rodriguez, part of a revolutionary family, her brother, head of the National Assembly, a father, well-known, assassinated leader, a revolutionary leader, and not go with Maria Corina Machado. And I'd like to get Francisco Rodriguez's response to that as well. You just wrote a piece in The Times about this today. But start with Carlos. us.

Just to clarify, I am not a member of the government. I am a research for Tri-Continental Institute. I was a diplomat at some point, but I do support President Maduro, and I do support acting president, Desi Rodriguez. And I think the reason, you know, what President Maduro said in that clip that you just mentioned was important, you know, the position of the Venezuelan government has always been to try to, you know, get the U.S. to return to diplomacy. I mean, the U.S. got into this mess in the first place by this maximum pressure campaign imposing sanctions. I mean, that's,

that was what really drove Venezuela, you know, apart from U.S. because, you know, just a few years ago, even during President Chavez, you know, the, the U.S. was a main trading partner for Venezuela. It was, you know, the relations, even though the, there was, you know, of course, different political and ideological views, there was a different type of relations. Now, I think, I think President Maduro's message there has been the consistent message of President Maduro throughout this time. And I think it still is the consistent message now, you know, that, you know, peace is something important, diplomacy is something important. And Venezuela is willing to do that under a framework of respect, you know,

that that was what Venezuela always saw at, you know, at that moment. I think that, the realization also that there is popular support. I mean, you have to understand that for 26 years there has been a buildup of popular support for the Bolivarian process. This has been a process that has, you know, improved the quality of life of people. It was a process that had remarkable, you know, humanitarian gains up until the sanctions regime started to implement, to be implemented and hurt Venezuela economy and her Venezuela's possibilities. But even then, there were a lot of things that were put into place by the Venezuelan government. We only have 30 seconds. And so I wanted to ask Francisco Rodriguez, if you could just quickly respond on basically Trump dumping Machado, the Nobel Peace winner. Well, I think Machado could not lead that country. I mean, I think that Trump took a decision that he wasn't going to get into state building.

He wasn't going to militarily occupy the country with the U.S. troops. So you have to work with existing state structures. Perhaps another opposition politician could have entered into a power-sharing agreement. But Machado, no, she's rejected this. Her politics is a politics of moral absolutism. For her, she said this repeatedly. It's a battle between good and evil. We're going to have to leave it there, but we're going to do an interview in Spanish, Venezuela and economist Francisco Rodriguez, and Carlos Ron. Thank you so much for joining us.

I'm Amy Goodman with Ramin Cheikh.