Democracy Now! Audio - Democracy Now! 2026-01-15 Thursday

Episode Date: January 15, 2026

Headlines for January 15, 2026; FBI Raids Home of Washington Post Reporter as Attacks on Press Freedom Intensify Under Trump; “This Regime Will Fall”: Director Jafar Panahi on Deadly Iran Protests & Filmmaking Under Censorship

From New York, this is Democracy Now. When they shut down the Internet, followed by the protests of the people, we issued a statement saying that the complete shutdown of the Internet and telecommunications will end in a massacre. But we never imagined the massacre to be in such dimensions and further to be a bloodbath. As the reported death toll in Iran rises to 2,600, we'll speak to the world-renowned Iranian filmmaker Jaffa Panahi about the unprecedented protests, Iran's brutal crackdown, and his new film, it was just an accident. The film was secretly shot inside Iran and has been shortlisted for an Oscar.

But first, here in the United States, the FBI raids the home of a Washington Post reporter and seizes her phone and laptops. We'll speak to Jameel Jaffer of the Knight First Amendment Institute. These kinds of raids, raids of newsrooms, searches of reporters are the hallmarks of illiberal regimes. They have been very rare in recent American history, and we want to keep them that way. You know, it's hard not to see this as kind of shot over the bow of the press and attempt to intimidate not just the press, but sources who would communicate with them. All that and more coming up. Welcome to Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org, the Warren Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman. The U.S. has withdrawn military personnel from bases in the Middle East as President Trump has repeatedly warned the U.S.

will intervene on behalf of the protesters in Iran. By Thursday morning, Iran shut down its commercial airspace for a number of hours. A senior Iranian official said Iran had warned its neighbors in the region that it would hit American bases in the event of U.S. airstrikes. This comes as Iran postponed the execution of Arafan Sultani, the 26-year-old protester sentenced to death just days after his arrest. More than 2,500 people, including 147 security officials, have been killed since protests began December 28th. That's according to the U.S.-based human rights activist news agency. Iranian authorities have imposed an internet shutdown across Iran, but videos of the deadly crackdown on protesters have been trickling out of Iran via smuggled Starlink terminals.

In one video, at least 100 bodies held in bags of weight identification at a morgue in Tehran. We'll hear from the world-renowned Iranian filmmaker, Jafar Panehi, later in the broadcast. The State Department said Wednesday, it'll indefinitely halt processing visas for immigrants from 75 countries. After claiming without evidence, people from those nations often receive public benefits. after arriving in the U.S. Immigrants from over a third of the world's 193 countries will be affected by the sweeping restrictions, which are set to begin January 21st.

Among the targets are Afghanistan, Brazil, Colombia, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Iran, Iraq, Nigeria, Somalia, Sudan, and Yemen. This comes on top of total or partial travel bans on visitors from 39 countries. In Minnesota, federal agents fired tear gas, pepper balls, and stunned grenades at protesters who gathered late Wednesday near the scene where a federal agent shot and injured a man in North Minneapolis. Mayor Jacob Fry said after the shooting that details remain unclear, even as he once again condemned ICE's surge of agents into the Twin Cities.

Witnesses told the Star Tribune, a series of gunshots followed a car chase and foot chase involving federal agents who reportedly ordered residents to come out of their homes with their hands up. Several people, including children, then walked out into the freezing cold. According to the Trump administration, the gunshot victim was shot in the leg. The administration said after he began to resist arrest and, quote, violently assault an officer. Minneapolis has recorded three shootings since New Year's Day. Two of them were by federal agents. In a video statement released shortly before the latest shooting, Minnesota Governor Tim Walls condemned what he called a, quote, campaign of organized brutality against the people

of Minnesota by our own federal government. Armed, masked, undertrained ICE agents are going door to door, ordering people to point out where their neighbors of color live. They're pulling over people indiscriminately, including U.S. citizens. and demanding to see their papers. And at grocery stores, at bus stops, even at our schools, they're breaking windows, dragging pregnant women down the street, just plain grabbing Minnesotans and shoving them into unmarked vans, kidnapping innocent people with no warning and no due process.

Among non-immigrants who've been swept up by ICE's campaign of racial profiling are four members of the Oglala Sioux tribe, three of whom remain jailed in an ICE facility, at Fort Snelling south of the Twin Cities. It's the same site where in 1862, U.S. forces imprisoned about 1,700 indigenous men, women, children, and elders following the U.S. Dakota War, where many died of torture, starvation, and disease. Survivors were exiled to reservations in what's now South Dakota.

In California, 21-year-old, Caden Rumler, says he was left permanent. blind in one eye and narrowly avoided death after a federal agent fired a crowd, fired a crowd control weapon into his face during an anti-ice protest in Santa Ana last week. Rumler had joined the protests against the killing of Renee Good by an ICE agent in Minneapolis when a federal agent fired a so-called less lethal round at close range that struck his left eye. He was then dragged by an agent across a plaza, his face covered in blood as he complained, I can't breathe. He says he pleaded for agents to call an ambulance as they mocked him about his injured eye. He ultimately underwent six hours of surgery to remove plastic, glass, and metal from his face and skull,

with one piece narrowly missing his carrot artery. Runliss says doctors told him it was a miracle he survived. An investigation by ProPublica. has documented over 40 cases in which federal immigration agents use potentially fatal chokeholds and other moves that can cut off breathing against immigrant citizens and protesters. Former police and immigration officials who review the footage call the agents out of control, with one calling it, quote, the kind of action which should get you fired, unquote. Meanwhile, top officials in Maine are warning ICE agents are preparing to start.

surge federal agents into the cities of Lewiston and Portland, where, according to MS now, they're set to target Somali refugees in the coming weeks. On Tuesday, the Trump administration ended temporary protected status for Somali immigrants, ordering them to leave the U.S. by March 17th. Danish foreign minister, Lars Rasmussen, said there is a, quote, fundamental disagreement unquote, with President Trump over Greenland, the semi-autonomous territory controlled by Denmark. The comments came after the foreign ministers of Denmark and Greenland met with Vice President J.D. Vance and Secretary of State Marco Rubio Wednesday at the White House, as President Trump

has repeatedly called for the U.S. to militarily take over Greenland. Here's Denmark's foreign minister, Lars Rasmussen. For us, ideas that would not respect territorial integrity of the Kingdom of Denmark and the right of self-determination of the Greenlandic people are, of course, totally unacceptable. And we therefore still have a fundamental disagreement, but we also agree to disagree. And therefore we will, however, continue to talk. President Trump's Middle East envoy says a U.S. brokered plant and Israel's assault on the Gaza Strip has entered its second phase. Steve Whitkoff made the announcement in a social media post writing Gaza is, quote, moving from ceasefire to demilitarization, technocratic governance, and reconstruction, unquote.

Whitkoff added, quote, the U.S. expects Hamas to comply fully with its obligations, including the immediate return of the final deceased hostage, failure to do so will bring serious consequences, unquote. Whitkoff made no mention of Israel's frequent ceasefire violations. Gaza officials say Israel's broken the truth about 1,200 times since it took effect October 10th, killing over 440 Palestinians. On Tuesday, yet another winter storm swept over Gaza, flooding hundreds of tents and collapsing homes, sheltering families displaced by more than two years of Israel's assault. At least six people have died from the latest storm, including two women and a

girl, killed when Holmes collapsed near Gaza City's beach and a one-year-old boy who died of hypothermia in a tent in Dera Balah. This is Narmah, a 12-year-old Palestinian displaced with nine family members in Gaza City. Last night, I've never seen anything like it. I've never seen anything like this on ordinary days. I've never seen anything like it. I've never seen anything like it. We were drowning. Our clothes that we had became wet. We have nothing to wear. We are children. We want. Our two mattresses were soaked. Our covers were soaked. Our pillows that we sleep on were soaked. Our tent is filled with water. A Senate War Powers resolution aimed at limiting present Trump's authority to take further military action against Venezuela failed Wednesday after two Republican senators, Josh Hawley and Todd Young, withdrew their. support. Vice President J.D. Vance cast the tie-breaking vote to dismiss the measure. Meanwhile,

the U.S. completed its first sale of Venezuelan oil, valued at about $500 million. Semaphore reports the revenue from the oil sales is currently being held in bank accounts controlled by the U.S. government and that the main account is being held in Qatar. On Wednesday, President Trump told reporters, he held a very good call with Venezuela's interim leader, Delci Rodriguez, calling her terrific. He's also expected to meet with the Venezuelan opposition leader Maria Karina Machado today at the White House. Meanwhile, in Venezuela, pro-government protesters have been gathering daily calling for the release of Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro and his wife, Celia Flores, from U.S. custody.

The empire can do whatever it wants, but we are here to tell them that we are free, sovereign, and independent. They can meet with whoever they want, but they have to meet with those who represent the government today. They have to free Nicholas Maduro and Celia Flores, our president. FBI agents raided the home of Washington Post reporter Hannah Nattinson on Wednesday. Authorities seized her phone, two laptops and a Garman watch. She spent the past year covering the Trump administration's efforts to fire the federal workforce. Matt Murray, the executive editor of the Washington Post said in a staff message, quote, this extraordinary aggressive action is deeply concerning and raises profound questions and

concern around the constitutional protections for our work, unquote. According to the Washington Post, investigators reportedly told that and since she wasn't the target of the probe, a warrant obtained by the paper cited an investigation into a government contractor with a top secret security clearance who's been accused of taking home classified intelligence reports. In a statement, Attorney General Pam Bondi said the warrant was executed at the request of the Pentagon and that Perez-Logonis had been arrested. We'll have more on this story after headlines. Several Democratic lawmakers said Wednesday they're under investigation by the Justice Department over a social media post in which they reminded

U.S. service members they have a duty to disobey illegal orders. Congress members, Jason Crowe, Maggie Goodlander, Chrissy Hulahan, and Alyssa Slotkin received inquiries from U.S. Attorney Janine Piro requesting interviews about their participation in this video posted last November. You can refuse illegal orders. You can refuse illegal orders. You must refuse illegal orders. No one has to carry out orders that violate the law or our Constitution. Congress member Slotkin said Wednesday she, also received an inquiry from the FBI's counterterrorism division late last year. That followed

President Trump's call for the lawmakers to be tried for treason and put to death. To be clear, this is the president's playbook. Truth doesn't matter. Facts don't matter. And anyone who disagrees with him becomes an enemy. And he then weaponizes the federal government against them. It's legal intimidation and physical intimidation meant to get you to shut up. And President Trump toured a Ford auto plant in Dearborn, Michigan Tuesday, where an auto worker was caught on camera calling the president a pedophile protector. President Trump then gave the auto worker the middle finger and mouthed F.U. twice. Ford suspended the auto worker, T.J. Sabula, without pay after his exchange with President Trump. Since then, GoFundMe campaigns have raised over $700,000 for Sabula.

On Wednesday, Laura Dickerson, the United Auto Workers Vice President and Director of the Ford Department, said in a statement, quote, The auto worker at the Dearborn Truck Plant is a proud member of a strong and fighting union, the UAW. He believes in freedom of speech, a principle we wholeheartedly embrace, and we stand with our membership in protecting their voice on the job, unquote. Meanwhile, the Justice Department has released less than 1% of the Epstein files. And those are some of the headlines. This is DemocracyNow. DemocracyNow.org, the War and Peace Report. Coming up, we look at press freedom under attack in the United States as the FBI raids the home of a Washington Post reporter seizing her phone and laptops. Stay with us.

When the sunshine down, free good with the rocks in the rain in my heart. Come on to love. Home Beach and Paul. Picking Dandelions by Downhill Strugglers performing at the Brooklyn Folk Festival. This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org, the Warren Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman with Nermyn Sheik. Welcome to our listeners and viewers across the country and around the world. On Wednesday, the FBI raided the Alexandria, Virginia home of a 29-year-old Washington Post reporter Hannah Nattinson,

who covers the Trump administration's reshaping of the government and its effects. The president of the reporter's committee for freedom of the press called the raid a, quote, tremendous escalation in the administration's intrusion into the independence of the press. FBI agents searched Nattinson's home and seized a phone, a garment warrant, her personal computer and one owned by the Post. Agents reportedly told Natinson the raid was related to their investigation of a government contractor and Navy veteran named Orelio Perez Lugones, who's accused of illegally retaining classified government materials.

He was reportedly messaging the reporter at the time of his arrest last Thursday. Just last month, Hannah Natinson wrote a piece headlined, I am the Post's federal government whisperer. It's been brutal, unquote. She said her reporting had led to more than a thousand new sources who were current or former federal workers, quote, who wanted to tell me how President Donald Trump was rewriting their workplace policies, firing their colleagues, or transforming their agency's missions, unquote.

Nattinson was also part of a Washington Post team that won the 2022 Pulitzer, Pulitzer, Prize for Public Service for their coverage of the January 6th Capitol insurrection. Readers of the Washington Post coverage of Wednesday's raid on the reporter's home left thousands of comments noting the paper's owner, Amazon founder Jeff Bezos, had so far not commented on the raid. For more, we're joined in our New York studio by Jamil Jaffer, director of the Knight First Amendment Institute at Columbia University, previously Deputy legal director at the ACOU. Welcome back to Democracy Now, Jamil. Why don't you explain to us what you understand happened on Wednesday morning when the FBI raided the home of a reporter?

Yeah, I mean, this is, you know, a reporter who's been covering the federal government, talking to government employees, publishing stories about her conversations with government employees, and her home was raided by the FBI. It's a very unusual thing, you know, extremely rare in this country that the FBI raids the home of a reporter or raids a newsroom, thankfully, very rare, in our recent history at least. But that's what they did in this case, and they seized her electronic devices, including two laptops, one of which was issued by the post and a cell phone as well. And not at all obvious to me why this search was necessary at all. They had already searched the home of this contractor a week before and obtained apparently evidence that he

sharing classified information. So they already had that evidence against them. They filed a criminal complaint against them. And a week later, they execute this search of a journalist's home. And we don't yet have the affidavit in support of the search. So we don't know what they told the court to justify this search. But it's hard not to see it as an effort to intimidate, not just journalists, but the sources that would communicate with them. So, Jamil, could you explain what kind of legal authorization is typically required for this kind of search, in particular of a journalist's home? Yeah, so it's a very complicated legal landscape, mainly because the Supreme Court issued this decision in 1972, which is, to put it generously very cryptic. Nobody understands

what that decision really means, but essentially the court said, we're not going to extend constitutional special constitutional protection to journalists with respect to their sources. We're not going to let journalists refuse to testify, for example, before a grand jury when they're subpoenaed for their sources. But in the same decision, the court said, obviously there are constitutional implications to some of these requests, and we're going to be very careful that the government doesn't cross constitutional lines. It's a cryptic opinion. There's a concurrence by Justice Powell that people have have, you know, taken to be the controlling opinion of the court. But the result is that there's

this very messy judicial landscape. Congress has been asked over and over again, urged over and over again by press freedom organizations, including the Knight Institute, to pass legislation that would give reporters clearer protection against compelled process, so not just subpoenas, but also court orders and search warrants of the kind that was, you know, at issue in this particular search. But Congress has failed to do that. And in the meantime, the only protections that journalists have are the ones that the Justice Department wants to,

or the main protections that journalists have, or the ones that the Justice Department wants to provide. And the Biden administration had provided, had strengthened the rules protecting journalists in very important ways. But the Attorney General, the current Attorney General, Pan Bondi, weakened those rules last year, press freedom advocates knew that the weakening of those rules would result in a kind of stepping

off of investigations of the press and their sources. And this search, I think, is a sign that we were right to worry. It's really serious when you look at, she's not even the actual target. They're saying they get the information. You can't help forget here that she is a winner of the Pulitzer Prize. She was part of the team that investigated what President Trump doesn't want to talk about, which is the January 6th insurrection. Yeah. Well, so I think that one of the really worrying things here is that presumably they justified this search to the judge by saying this relates to this contractor who was sharing classified information, was taking classified information home unlawfully and then sharing it. And that's how they justified the search to the judge. but this reporter has all kinds of information, all kinds of communications with sources that have

nothing to do with classified information, right? All these communications with current government employees, for example, including conversations that are not national security protected, they don't touch on national security issues at all, and now the government has possession of all of those communications. And we don't know whether any protections have been put in place to to segregate those communications or whether the Justice Department is just sifting through them right now. And what kind of recourse, if any,

legal recourse does the reporter Hannah Natanson or indeed the Washington Post have in light of what's happened? The owner, Jeff Bezos, quite close to President Trump. Yeah, I mean, it's quite striking that, at least to my knowledge, I think you said this in the intro as well,

that Jeff Bezos hasn't said anything about this search. I mean, this is a huge attack on not just press freedom, but his outlet, the Washington Post, and that he hasn't come to the defense of the newspaper or the journalist is

pretty striking. And what about the fact, what about the Post itself? It can't do anything. I think that the Post can do so. I mean, there was a strong statement from the executive editor, and the Post could go to court, and at the very least, demand that the judge imposed

restrictions on what the government can review here, ensure that the only information of the government has access to is information relating to the search of the contractor. At the very least, maybe they could challenge the search in broader ways as well. I'm sure that they are thinking that through now. I hope that they will go to court. And quite terrifying the fact that she is known as the government whisper, that thousands of workers have turned to her.

They will know who those workers are. Yeah, I think that that's why it's hard not to see this as an effort to intimidate the press. We want to ask you about another issue. The House Oversight Committee is facing growing criticism for voting to subpoena, the prominent investigative reporter Seth Harp, after he posted publicly available information about a Delta Force commander who reportedly played a role in the recent abduction of the Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro and his wife. Harp's the author of the book, the Fort Brad Cartel,

drug trafficking and murder in the special forces. On Monday, 20 press freedom and First Amendment groups, including the ACLU and Reporters Without Borders, called on the House committee to rescind the subpoena saying Harps reporting is, quote, fully and squarely within the protections of the First Amendment. Your response to Mel. I mean, my organization didn't sign that letter, but I agree 100% with what the ACLU and other organizations wrote. I mean, this is plainly First Amendment protected activity.

You can publish information that is already publicly available. And the fact that the government says that this information is classified doesn't actually change the calculus because the First Amendment protects the right of news organizations and journalists to publish government secrets. So I think that this is yet another effort, this time by Congress, not the Justice Department, to intimidate the press, to deter the press from doing work that all of us need the press to do. So you're racing out of here to catch a plane to go to Boston. You're dealing with the AAPUP case that challenges the Trump administration's policy of detaining and deporting international students and professors who participate in pro-Palestine protests. Can you explain where this case stands now?

Yeah. So, you know, this is, as you say, a case in which we're challenging this policy of targeting student protesters. and we had a trial over the summer before Judge Young, William Young in Boston, after which he issued a 168-page opinion, scathing opinion, holding that the government's policy of targeting these foreign students on the basis of the pro-Palestinian activism was unconstitutional. So he's said that already, but he hasn't yet given us a remedy for the violations that he's identified. So today's hearing is about essentially what can the court do about the constitutional violations that he's already recognized.

So it's a really important hearing. It's this afternoon in Boston. And can you talk next week marks the one-year anniversary of Trump, having been in office, the attacks on the press that have happened in the last year? Yeah, I mean, it's a terrible time for press freedom. And the important thing about that is that we need the press to inform the public about the government's actions and decisions and to help us hold government officials to account. But the Trump administration is engaged in a kind of all-out assault on press freedom.

You see it in so many different ways. At the ground level, just the kinds of abuses that you see ICE agents and other federal officials engaged in, other federal agents engaged in against reporters, but all the way up to the consolidation of control over some of the nation's largest media organizations, including CBS, and possibly soon, TikTok and CNN as well. Speaking of CBS, this is the new CBS news anchor, Tony DeCoupil, closing out Tuesday night's broadcast with a salute to Secretary of State, Marco Rubio. For Rubio's hometown fans, which are many around here in Miami, it is a

sign of how Florida, once an American punchline, has become a leader on the world stage. Marco Rubio, we salute you. You're the ultimate Florida man. That was how, I think that was his first CBS newscast that he was hosting as the main host. So I wanted to go now to the Golden Globes, the comedian, the host, Nikki Glazer, who mocked CBS News during her opening monologue. And the award for most editing goes to CBS News. Yes. CBS News, America's newest place to CBS News. The Golden Globe Ceremony aired on CBS and streamed on Paramount Plus.

But let's not forget CBS pulled that story on SACOT on the Venezuelan prisoners. The U.S. men who were sent to Venezuela and put at the maximum security. prison in El Salvador. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's, it's funny and, you know, sort of comical what's happening at CBS, but it's also tragic because we need, we need the press to cover this stuff seriously. We need the press to hold government officials to account. And when some of the power, the most powerful news organizations in the country aren't doing that, it makes our democracy much weaker. Jamil Jaffer, we thank you so much for being with us, Director of the Night, First Amendment Institute at Columbia.

University. Coming up, the acclaimed Iranian filmmaker, Jaffa Panahi, in our studio. Stay with us. If you want to make the weather, then you have to take the blame. If sometimes dark clouds fill the sky and it starts to rain. And folks complain. And though you'll hit me. I tell you to run and hide. Listen to your heart. I keep faith by Billy Bragg performing in our Democracy Now studio. This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org, the Warren Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman with Nirmine Sheikh.

We turn now to Iran, where activists say at least 2,600 people have been killed since December 28th in nationwide protests that have been described as the biggest challenge to Iran's rulers since the 1979 revolution. The number of protesters killed is likely much higher than the reported figures, given the nationwide communications blackout. Amnesty International has accused Iranian security forces of committing mass kill on an unprecedented scale amid an ongoing internet shutdown. President Trump has repeatedly threatened to attack Iran, but his tone appeared to shift on Wednesday. We've been told that the killing in Iran is stopping. It's stopped.

It's stopping. And there's no plan for executions or an execution or executions. So I've been told that a good authority. President Trump's comment came a day after he urged Iranian protesters to continue while saying, quote, help is on the way. The New York Times reports Trump has still not ruled out launching a military attack. The U.S. is already withdrawn military personnel from some. bases in the Middle East. The U.K. has also temporarily closed its embassy in Tehran. Iran's threatened to

hit U.S. bases as well as Israel in the event of U.S. air strikes. On Wednesday, we sat down with world-renowned Iranian filmmaker Jafar Panahi here in our studio. His most recent film, it was just an accident, received the PAMDOR at the 2025 Cannes Film Festival, and has been shortlisted for an Oscar in the International Feature Film category. The first one of the first film category. The film was shot entirely in secret inside Iran. Earlier this year, he was awarded the Best Director Prize by the New York Film Critics Circle. Jaffir Panahi is the only living director to have won the top prizes at Europe's three major film festivals, the Pam Dore at Cannes, the Golden Bear in Berlin, and the Golden Lion in Venice. His other award-winning films include his debut feature,

The White Balloon, as well as Taxi and the Circle. Panahy was recently sentenced to one year in prison and a two-year travel ban in absentia by the Tehran Islamic Revolutionary Court. He's been arrested multiple times in Iran and served two prison sentences for defying censorship laws and for spreading, quote, anti-government propaganda. On Tuesday night, Jafar Panahy spoke at the National Board of Review Gala here in New York, and he won an award and denounced what he called. of bloodbath in Iran. It is an absolute honor to receive this award from the National Board of Review.

I would like to express my sincere gratitude to the globe. But I cannot speak easily because as we stand here, the state of Iran is gunning down protesters. And a savage massacre continues. continues blatantly on the streets of Iran. Perhaps cinema is supposed to make the viewers laugh and pride. It is supposed to make us feel terrified and safe. Perhaps cinema must make us all in love, then heal us with love and teach us and make us think.

But today, the real scene is not unsubes. screens around the streets of Iran. The Islamic Republic has caused a blood death to delay its collapse. Bodies are piling up on bodies, and those who have survived are searching for signs of their loved ones through mountains of corpses. This is no longer in metaphor. This is not a story. This is not the film. It's the reality ridden with bullets day after day. In accepting this award, I considerate my duty to call on artists and members of the global film community to speak out and not remain silent.

Use any voice and any platform you have. Call your governments, call on your governments to confront this human catastrophe rather than turn the blind eye. Do not let blood dry in the darkness of amnesia. That was critically acclaimed Iranian filmmaker Jaffa Panahi. On Wednesday, he joined us in our studio. I started by asking him about his latest film. it was just an accident in the context of the nationwide protests in Iran. This film is about my experience and the experience of other prisoners with whom I lived in prison for seven months.

When they arrest a prisoner of conscience, the first thing they do is they take them to interrogation sessions. The interrogation sessions are such that the prisoner is placed in front of the wall. They're blindfolded and they're given a piece of paper and a pen. And a person behind the prisoner keeps walking and asking questions. And the auditory sense of the prisoner is the sense that works most. And the prisoner keeps wondering if, if they're going to recognize this person if they meet them outside. This has become the center of my film,

and it has been mixed with the stories that I have heard from friends inside the prison. The film was made. It premiered at Cannes. It became successful. And now it is in the Oscar campaign. And now I'm involved in the Oscar campaign, and I just keep hearing the very difficult news from, my country. What I am hearing is just a catastrophe. When they shut down the internet, followed by the protests of the people, we issued a statement saying that the complete shutdown of the internet and telecommunications will end in a massacre. But we never imagined the massacre

to be in such dimensions and further to be a bloodbath. From this, you can understand that the regime knows it has reached the end. But in order to cling to power, it can kill as much as possible. And there is no rationality into its murder and killing machine. Usually such dictatorships, when they get to this point, still have certain individuals who think rationally or think about the future of the country, for whom the country is the most important thing. They intervene at that point and they resort to people's demands. But I'm sorry to say that it seems there is no rationality within this violent dictatorship. You cannot even find one or two people who would think rationally.

I am very sorry that it has gotten to this point. I do not have any trustworthy news from inside Iran. I don't know what is happening. I don't know where my colleagues are, where my family is. It is only the bits and pieces that you hear, but I can only hope that people can get what they want. My fellow Iranians can get their hands to what they want. Okay. So when the protests began, they were focused on economic issues, the dire economic conditions in Iran.

But then the protests became about a lot of other things. Could you explain what you think has? has made these protests so enormous. What are the issues that are at stake? Nothing just happens overnight. It has been about 47 years that people have had demands, and the state has only met them in one way. They've had civil demands.

They've had economic demands. They've tried to make the regime here, but no one is hearing within the state. people have had experiences and every time they've come one step forward. In the women, life, freedom movement, people crossed the red lines that were unimaginable and eventually they pushed the regime back. And now all those civil demands and economic demands have been combined and intertwined. And they have brought people together from all echelons of the society. And this is why the protests are so widespread.

And this is why the regime feels that it has reached an end and that people have reached the point that they can no longer tolerate. So you mentioned 47 years of demands and frustration in Iran. 47 years ago was, of course, the Islamic Revolution, which began with protests against the Shah. At the time you were a high school student. in your final year of high school, and you joined those protests, what were you thinking the protests against the Shah would enable?

And your response when Ayatollah Khomeini came and it became an Islamic revolution. As you said, I was only a student in the last year of high school. And back then, the thing we needed the most was freedom. Economic demands were not part of it. It was mostly about freedom of expression. And the clerical class took advantage of the fact that people had religious roots and they came to power. But of course, exactly one year after coming to power, they started a massacre. And of course, the war with Iraq became an excuse.

and then people's demand meant nothing. People's needs meant nothing. And the regime started focusing on other things and making them its priorities. Those were not parts of people's demands, but the regime kept insisting on them. So what was it at the time that drew you to cinema, to film?

I was, I was about to ask for you. 10 or 12 years old, there was a library at our neighborhood. There was a library in our neighborhood that had a filmmaking group that worked with 8mm films. I was a very chubby kid back then, and just because of that fact, they invited me to act in a short film. And when I went on the set, it was the first time that I was seeing a camera and a person who was standing behind the camera and looking through the viewpoint. And they would tell us what to do and how to act and what to say. The whole time I was only focused on looking through the camera, but because I was a hyper kid, they would not allow me to get anywhere near the camera. But this longing stayed with me to look through the viewpoint.

Also, we lived in a poor working class neighborhood, and when I became 13 or 14 years old, I started working over the summers when I was not in school. and I was able to save my money and buy a zenith photography camera. And it was the first time I could see the world through a camera. I started photography and gradually I became attracted to images. And then I got accepted into the university for cinema. When did the state tell you to stop making movies? Censorship is very strong. strong in Iran, but filmmakers always found a way around it. Because films about children were not

censored as much, filmmakers usually started their career by making films about children. And as soon as we entered the world of the adults, and in my case, with the world, the circle, problems started. We started having problems with censorship, and we were nearing red lines. It's only been my first film that's been shown in Iran, the white balloon. My other films, The Circle, Crimson Gold and Offside have not been screened. And then I realized I cannot get anywhere like this. We started working on a film with Muhammad Rasulov in my place, in my home. And back then, we did not have an experience of how to make an underground film.

That's when they raided my home and they arrested us. We had only done 25% of the film, and then we went to prison, and we got the sentence. And they gave me a sentence that banned me from working. I could not work, I could not write, I could not interview, I could not travel outside Iran. And that is when I started looking for a solution, and I asked if I am not allowed to make films for 20 years, what is it that I can do? Filmmaking is all I know. I remember back then, many students, university students, used to come to me and complain that they cannot make films because the situation is very difficult. I kept wondering if I should also be complaining like them or should I be thinking about solutions.

Because they had told me that I'm not allowed to make films, I made a film and I said, this is not a film. And then I asked myself, what other profession can I do? I really don't know anything else because I'm a very clumsy person. But then I thought I know how to drive so I can become a cab driver. But I thought even as a taxi driver, I cannot let go of cinema. So I'm going to hide a camera in my car and I'm going to make the stories of my passengers. And this became the film Taxi. And when it became successful, those students would no longer complain to me that they cannot work.

They too started looking for solutions. And this solution finding became the norm to the point that now the best films of Iranian cinema are underground films. So you made this is not a film, as you called it, in 2011 with iPhones in your living room. That's how you hit. In 2015, taxi, as you said, driving a taxi. Tell us how you made this film. It was just an accident. Did the authorities in Iran know you were making it?

It was made in Iran. Until I had a sentence that banned me from working, I had been making underground films. and looking for solutions for how to circumvent security issues and how to save our work. But when I wanted to make it was just an accident, they had lifted all my sentences. I had served everything.

I was done with my ban on working and my prison sentence. In fact, I could go ask for a formal permission and work. In Iran, when you want to. to ask for permission, you have to submit your script to the Ministry of Guidance. They read it. They tell you what to take out, what to add. No, don't have this character. Bring another character instead. And they intervene so much that it's no longer your film. So I had to work in the underground style. And based on the experiences that I had with the last five films, I knew what to do, to not get caught. We first started with locations that were less risky. For instance,

the desert where nobody would see us, or at home, or in the bookstore, or the sequence where they tie the interrogator to the tree, places where we would not be seen. Gradually we made our way into the city. But even there, we started with scenes in which the camera was inside the van and no one could see the camera. Then we brought the camera out into the urban areas. We worked for a few days, but we also knew that they're going to see us and they're going to catch us. We were shooting the ATM sequence. We finished and we left the crew in one spot.

then myself and a few colleagues wanted to go and shoot another scene with the car in another location. But we were on our way when our team called and said the set has been rated. I first thought it's the morality police that usually approaches a filmmaking group and asks for permission. But then they told us, no, it's 15 secret agents in plain clothes. we had to return. But of course, before our return, we immediately hid our equipment. We were held on the street for four or five hours. They couldn't find anything, of course.

The next day, they questioned some people in interrogation sessions, and they said that they are not allowed to collaborate with Jaffar Panohi anymore. I put the project on pause for about a month, and then I went and shot the absolutely necessary shots, and then we started the post-production. Well, it's an extraordinary film, and just so our listeners and viewers can get a taste of it, we're going to play the trailer now. The trailer for it was just an accident. I finally found him. Kidnapping an intelligence agent is no small matter. Egg ball, the peg leg.

Ring a bell? Stop this. I've never heard that name. Can you confirm it's him? This is unlike you. We aren't killers. Are you sure it's him? No.

He brought Eggball. My hand over his leg for five years, in my nightmares. What's going on in there? There's nothing to see. Listen, everyone. He has to talk. The further you go, the more you sink. It's going to be the end of you all.

I have a family, too. I understand. Hello, my daddy. Do you know what you did to me? What are you going to do? So that's the trailer for your most, recent film, award-winning film, it was just an accident. So the film is especially relevant for this moment and possibly the moment to come because it deals with the issue of state violence

and the question of whether after the violence has ended, people should seek, should grant forgiveness or seek vengeance. If you could talk about some of these themes and their relevance today. I don't know, perhaps when I was making this film, I was more faithful that under any circumstances, violence needs to be stopped. And perhaps I thought that the cycle of violence can change. Can be destroyed.

But now, considering what has happened in the past few days, considering this horrific massacre, are people able to say enough to this cycle of violence one day? What has happened recently is nothing simple. It's nothing small. What is happening today makes me really concerned about the future of my country. It makes me concerned

that after the fall of this regime, what will happen? Are we going to return to this type of violence? Are we going to respond in violence or not? I have always said this regime will fall.

It is impossible for it to not fall because it is a failed state in every sense. And people do not have an It does not have any legitimacy for people. It is very clear to me, and I completely believe in it. What I care about is the future of my country.

I want the country to stand. I want there to be peace, and I want our children and the children of our children to not be facing bullets. There should be a humanistic situation giving people the right to live. But what they have done in the past 47 years has been planting the seeds of violence. And I really hope that this tree of violence will not grow. What is your message to protesters? Of course, we know now that at least 2,000, 2500 have been killed.

What is your message to protesters today? and also you intend to return to Iran. Would you join the protests? Even one person getting killed is too much. You say 2,500 in 48 hours, but we have heard other numbers. Even 12,000 people have been killed. Unfortunately, there are no ways of communicating within to assess the numbers we hear.

But no matter what the actual numbers are, we know that it has been unprecedented. About myself returning, they also asked me the same question at Cannes. And I said, I will immediately return after the festival. And 24 hours after the end of the festival, I was in Tehran airport. Since I left Iran for the film campaign, of course I heard. that I have a new prison sentence, one year prison sentence and two years banned, and two years being banned from work. My trial happened in absentia, and my lawyer was supposed to give me the final results,

but then the internet was shut down, and the phones are shut down, and I have not heard from my lawyer. But as soon as that campaign ends, as I have said before, I will really return to Iran in any possible way, under any circumstances, because it is there that I know I have to exist. It is there where I know I can make films and do what I like to do. Yes, I will return. I will definitely return.

The acclaimed Iranian filmmaker Jaffa Panahi, special thanks to Sheda Diani. This is Democracy Now. I'm Amy Goodman with Nermines Shea. Thanks so much for joining us.