Democracy Now! Audio - Democracy Now! 2026-03-23 Monday

Episode Date: March 23, 2026

Democracy Now! Monday, March 23, 2026

From New York, this is Democracy Now. So the situation is, if we want to put in a context, this crisis is the thing stand now. Two oil crisis and one gas crash put all together. The single most important solution to this problem is opening up the homeless trade. Is it things stand now? As the global energy crisis escalates, President Trump has announced the U.S. and Iran have had productive talks that could lead to what he called the complete and total resolution of our hostilities in the Middle East, unquote. President Trump is still threatening to bomb power plants in Iran if the Strait of Hormuz is not reopened, but has extended that deadline by five days. We'll speak to historian Alfred McCoy, his latest article imperial decline in the Straits of Hormuz.

Then President Trump's calling European leaders cowards for not joining the war against Iran. I think NATO is making a very foolish mistake. And I've long said that, you know, I wonder whether or not NATO would ever be there for us. So this was a great test because we don't need them, but they should have been there. We'll speak with Professor Natalie Tachi in Italy. Then the Center on Conscience and War is reporting it's seen a spike in inquiries from U.S. soldiers seeking to submit conscientious objector applications. Number one thing that we hear from callers, the most universal rationale that they are given is that they are giving, is that they are disgusted at the suffering on the receiving end in Iran, that they want no part in that.

The majority of our callers are not trying to get out of this because they're worried about their own lives, but the lives of people in Iran who did nothing to deserve this. All that and more coming up. Welcome to Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org, the Warren Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman. In a social media post, President Trump said this morning he's instructed the Pentagon to postpone all air strikes against Iranian power plants and energy infrastructure for a five-day period claiming on truth social that Iran and the U.S. have had, quote, very good and productive conversations regarding a complete and total resolution of our hostilities in the Middle East,

unquote. This comes after Trump warned Saturday night, he would obliterate Iranian power plants if the Strait of Hormuz was not fully opened within 48 hours. Iran responded by warning it would destroy essential infrastructure, including water systems across the region if Trump followed through on his threat. In Israel, nearly 200 people were injured by Iranian strikes on Damona, home to Israel's main nuclear facility and the nearby city of Arad, Saturday, after Israeli air defenses failed to intercept at least two ballistic missiles. Iranian state media said the missiles were fired in retaliation for an Israeli attack. on an Iranian nuclear facility in Natanz.

Iran also launched two, four thousand kilometer range ballistic missiles at the joint U.S. British military base on the Indian Ocean Island of Diego Garcia Saturday. According to the Israeli military, it was the first time Iran had used long-range missiles in the conflict. The Israeli military said Monday it had begun strikes targeting infrastructure in Tehran. Iran, meanwhile, vowed to lay seamount. to block the entire Persian Gulf if its coast or islands are attacked. This comes as the International Energy Agency announced earlier this month. It's releasing 400 million barrels of crude oil, the largest in its history,

in order to stabilize global oil prices. On Sunday, U.S. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent tried to clarify President Trump shifting messages on the war in an interview with NBC's Meet the Press. Just to put a fine point on this, though, is the president in the process of winding down this war or escalating conflict? Again, they're not mutually exclusive. Sometimes you have to escalate to de-escalate crew. Saudi Arabia's ordered Iran's military attach and four embassy staff members to leave the kingdom within 24 hours. The Saudi Foreign Ministry declared the five officials persona non-grada, citing what it called repeated Iranian attacks on Saudi territory. The move follows an Iranian drone strike on the Red Sea port of Yanbu, Saudi Arabia's only remaining oil export outlet after Iran blocked the Strait of Hormuz.

This comes as the Trump administration's advancing more than $23 billion in weapon sales to the United Arab Emirates, Kuwait and Jordan without congressional approval. In Lebanon, Israel struck a main bridge linking the south to the rest of Lebanon Sunday. the Israeli militaries ordered its troops to destroy all crossings over the Latani River and step up the demolition of homes near the southern border. This comes as Lebanese health care workers are accusing Israel of deliberately targeting medical workers and facilities in southern Lebanon. Israel struck at least 128 medical facilities and ambulances across southern Lebanon, killing 40 health care workers, according to the Lebanese health ministry. since Israel's war in Lebanon began March 2nd, more than a million people have been forced to flee their homes. Over a thousand people have been killed in Israeli attacks.

This is a displaced Lebanese man in the capital of Beirut. Last night was difficult. Like every night we have here, as soon as it rains, the tents get flooded, and the covers get soaked, and we have extreme struggle. Last week, there were two storms, and this storm continues for 10 days. In Gaza, an Israeli air strike on a place. police vehicle Sunday killed three Palestinians in the new Sadat refugee camp, another Palestinian was killed in a separate airstrike on northern Gaza. Meanwhile, in the occupied West Bank,

Israeli settlers carried out a series of attacks setting homes and vehicles on fire and wounding several Palestinians over the weekend. On Saturday, Israeli settlers carried out overnight attacks in at least six communities. On Sunday, at least 10 Palestinians were injured in attacks by Israeli settlers in four villages near Nablus. According to the United Nations, Israeli forces and settlers have killed more than a thousand Palestinians in the West Bank since October of 2023.

In Britain, four ambulances belonging to a Jewish volunteer organization known as Hatzala in London were torched early Monday and what British Prime Minister Kirstarmer condemned is a, quote, deeply shocking anti-Semitic arson attack, unquote. Security camera footage obtained by CNN shows three people wearing masks and all black approaching an ambulance belonging to the Hatzala Northwest and setting the vehicle on fire. The northern suburb of Golders Green has a large Jewish community home to several synagogues, dozens of Jewish schools and other institutions.

The flames caused an explosion that shattered windows in nearby buildings. No injuries were reported. In Sudan, at least 64 people were killed, including over a dozen children in a strike on a hospital on Easter 4 Friday. The World Health Organization said some 89 people were also injured and that the hospital will no longer operate. The paramilitary rapid support forces blamed the attack on Sudan's military, which the Army denies. But the Associated Press reports to Sudanese military officials said the strike had originally targeted a police station in the region. the Director General of the World Health Organization, Tedros Adnome Gabriasis, condemned the frequent attacks on medical facilities since Sudan's war broke out nearly three years ago. He wrote on social media, quote, enough blood has been spilled, health care should never be a target.

Peace is the best medicine, unquote. In Cuba, authorities have partially restored electricity after more than 10 million people lost power to their homes and businesses this Saturday following another collapse. of Cuba's national power grid. It was the second time in a week and the third time this month, Cuba suffered a major blackout as the Trump administration's oil blockade worsens Cuba's humanitarian crisis.

Critics have condemned the blockade as economic warfare. This is Havana resident Leoni Alberto, who's been forced to cook with firewood during the blackouts. Life doesn't change. Ultimately, we're stuck in the same rut. We aren't going to move forward. We're just going to stay right here at a standstill. Twice a week cooking with firewood.

It's absolute madness. There's no other way around it. It's just the hand we've been dealt. A solution is unlikely. We've been stuck in the same situation for 60 years. It is not going to change. Meanwhile, hundreds of delegates from 33 countries and 120 organizations have arrived in Cuba aboard ships carrying humanitarian goods from Mexico.

The Nuisra America Flotilla brought the food, medicine, solar panels, and other supplies as a direct challenge to the U.S. embargo of Cuba. Here in New York, a pilot and co-pilot were killed while 40 passengers and crew were injured late Sunday when an Air Canada Express plane collided while landing with a fire truck at LaGuardia Airport. It's the latest in a series of airline disasters under President Trump's second term,

including a January 2025 collision near Ronald Reagan National Airport that killed 67 people. Sunday's disaster prompted LaGuardia to shut down until Monday afternoon, at least until 2 p.m. Eastern. More than 400 flights have been canceled. Those disruptions added to travel chaos tied to the partial government shutdown affecting the Department of Homeland Security, which has forced tens of thousands of transportation security administration workers, TSA workers, to go without pay, leading to resignations and high rates of sick leave. On Sunday, President Trump's so-called border czar, Tom Homan, confirmed plans to deploy ICE agents, immigration and customs enforcement agents at 14 airports to ease, he said, long security lines. The move comes as Senate Republicans Saturday blocked a Democratic bill seeking to pay TSA workers during the partial shutdown while negotiations to fund DHS continue. In Patterson, New Jersey City, leaders joined family and friends Sunday as they welcome Palestinian activists La Caw Cordia home after more than a year in a Texas ICE jail.

Cordia was arrested during the 2024 Gaza Solidarity protests at Columbia University on charges that were later dropped. Soon after, she was detained by ICE during a routine immigration check-in in New Jersey. While in custody, Cordia was hospitalized following a seizure. Her legal team said her legs were chained to her bed and she was denied access to her lawyer or family. Leca Cordia spoke to supporters at Patterson City Hall. It's been a long year and tough year in ICE. dungeons. But I'm finally free, haemdala. But still, but still my battle is not done yet.

My battle to gain my freedom is done. It's not finish over. This is just the first step. A federal judge has blocked the Pentagon's press policy, requiring media outlets to pledge not to gather information unless Pentagon officials formally authorize its release. On Friday, U.S. District Judge Paul Friedman in Washington, D.C., sided with the New York Times, which challenged the policy. Judge Friedman wrote, quote, those who drafted the First Amendment believe the nation's security requires a free press and an informed people and that such security is endangered by governmental suppression of political speech. That principle has preserved the nation's security for almost 250 years.

It must not be abandoned now, he said. In more media news, attorneys general from eight states have asked a federal judge to halt a $3.5 billion merger between Nextdoor Media Group and Tegna, two of the largest local broadcast station owners in the U.S. The Trump administration approved the merger Thursday after the FCC waive rules limiting any company from owning stations that taken together reach more than 39 percent of U.S. households. The merger was approved after Nextdoor aligned itself with the Trump administration by temporarily pulling Jimmy Kimmel live off the air across its 28 ABC affiliates after FCC chair, Brendan Carr, threatened to revoke the licenses of broadcasters airing Kimmel. Former FBI director Robert Mueller has died at the age of 81. He'd led the Bureau for 12 years under President's George W. Bush and Barack Obama. In 2017, Mueller was named special prosecutor investigation of allegations that Russia conspired to influence the outcome of the 2016 election.

That prompted the wrath of President Trump who called the investigation a witch hunt a hoax and a treasonous attack, unquote. On Saturday, Trump celebrated Mueller's death, writing on his social media platform. form, quote, good. I'm glad he's dead. He can no longer hurt innocent people, Trump wrote. In Slovenia, official results show ruling liberals and opposition right-wing candidates in a near tie after Sunday's parliamentary vote. None of the main parties looked likely to secure a majority in the 90-member parliament. The Slovenian Prime Minister Robert Golub of the Center Left Freedom Movement warns Slovenia's democracy and sovereignty cannot be taken for granted. The opposition figure in former Slovenian Prime Minister Yanez Janice, who leads the conservative

Slovenian Democratic Party, faced controversy in recent months after reportedly met with the Israeli spy firm Black Cube, prompting allegations of election interference. Meanwhile, in France, left-wing parties and allies held on to power in Paris, Marseille, Lyon, and Lille, as local elections were held Sunday. Socialist Emmanuel Gregor was elected as the mayor of Paris. Meanwhile, the far-right national rally made some gains in smaller towns in France's rural areas. France is holding presidential elections next year. And in Chile, thousands of people took to the streets of Santiago Sunday to protest incoming president Jose Antonio Cass' environmental rollback since taking office earlier this month. Cass government halted over 40 environmental protections that had

been drafted during the previous administration of leftist Gabriel Boric. Protesters marched to La Moneda, Chile's presidential palace to mark World Water Day. I think we cannot continue living under a government that believes everything contrary to business and industry interests is an ideology. So I think we need to take to the streets, demonstrate, and fight for environmental rights, animal rights, and people's rights. Cast is the most right-wing president elected in Chile since the U.S. back-pinichet military dictatorship. And those are some of the headlines. This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org, the War and Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman in New York with Democracy

Now's Juan Gonzalez, not in Chicago today, but right next to me here in New York. It's wonderful to be sitting next to you. Yes, Amy, and it's been now six years since I walked in the doors of our studio here since before the COVID pandemic. It's great to see everyone in person in the flesh rather than just over the internet or by phone. So it's great to be here. President Trump announced today that the U.S. and Iran have had, quote, very productive talks that could lead to what he called, quote, the complete and total resolution of our hostilities in the Middle East. In a social media post, Trump said he had instructed the Pentagon to postpone all air strikes against Iranian power plants and energy infrastructure for a five-day period. Over the weekend, Trump had threatened to bomb power plants in Iran, beginning today, if the Strait of Hormuzzi, is not reopened. Iran responded to Trump's earlier threat by warning it would retaliate by

destroying essential infrastructure, including water systems across the region. A spokesman for Iran's Ministry of Health wrote on social media, quote, as a doctor, I warn the organizers of the imposed war against Iran that attacking the infrastructure of my country, including water and electricity, means the indirect killing of thousands of innocent people lying on Iranian hospital beds. Iran's de facto closure of the Strait of Hormuz has created the world's biggest energy crisis in decades. As shipments of oil, natural gas, fertilizer have been drastically curtailed. A fifth of the world's oil supply transits through the strait. For more on the U.S. and Israel war on Iran and the significance of the Strait of Hormuz.

We're joined now by Alfred McCoy, Professor of History at University of Wisconsin. Madison. His most recent book is titled Cold War on Five Contents, a global history of empire and espionage. His recent piece for Tom Dispatch headlined Imperial Decline in the Straits of Hormuz. Professor McCoy, we welcome you back to Democracy Now. If you can talk about the significance of this moment, even since we booked you yesterday, you have President Trump. in a social media post indicating that there could be the end of hostilities. He is declaring a five-day extension of his deadline before the U.S. attacks, civilian infrastructure, clearly a war crime.

Can you talk about what this all means, and particularly your focus on the Strait of Hormuz, why you talk about imperial decline? Sure, I mean, in this wide world, there are only seven major maritime choke points. Two of them lie in the Middle East, the Suez Canal, and the Straits of Hormuz. So let's look at what happened in the Suez Canal. Back in 1956, the president of Egypt, Gamal Abdel Nasser, nationalized the Suez Canal, which up to that time had been British property. And the British government was so outraged under.

Sir Anthony Eden, that they conspired with the French and the Israelis and mounted a major attack on Egypt. And in the first week of war, an armada of six French and British aircraft carriers seemed to be achieving almost total victory. They shot down about 100 Egyptian aircraft. They destroyed the Egyptian Air Force. And in the sands of the Sinai Peninsula, the Israeli defense forces smash the Egyptian tanks, and within that first week of war, Egypt had lost all of its strategic weapons. It was powerless, helpless before the might of this imperial juggernaut. And then Nasser did, practicing the geopolitics that the British had seemingly forgotten. He just got together a couple of dozen rusting freighters, filled them with rocks, sank them at the north end of the Suez Canal,

and by the time the British and French commandos came storming ashore at Suez, victory had been snatched from their grasp. And within a couple of months, Britain's pound sterling was the subject of the first IMF bailout. Britain's aura of imperial might, its majesty had evaporated. Britain had been sanctioned by the UN and the British Empire was on the road to rapid disillusion. Okay, now let's turn to the Straits of Hormuz. Again, during the first week of war, Washington was very proud of the terrible swift sword of American air power. We killed Ayatollah Khomeini.

We wiped out most of the Iranian command. We seemed to smash their air defenses. Indeed, we did. We could operate unchecked across the whole of Iran. Iran seemed helpless beneath the might of our imperial juggernaut. And so Iran did. a very simple thing. They used their very cheap, $20,000 a copy,

Shahid drones, and they started striking at infrastructure on the south shore of the Persian Gulf, they struck five freighters in the Persian Gulf, and they closed, they shut down the Straits of Hormuz. And when you think about it, you know, there is no other place

on the planet that is so absolutely central, so absolutely critical for the functioning of the entire global economy. I mean, the Persian Gulf has 50% of the world's oil reserves worth about $86 trillion. The busiest airport in the world is in Dubai. The Persian Gulf supplies 20% of the world's natural gas. And very importantly, about half of the ingredients for fertilizer transit through the Straits of Hormuz. And when you think about it, okay? All right.

What's going on right now? It's spring. Farmers in the entire northern hemisphere, the entire northern half of the globe are planting their crops. And they need fertilizer in order to either cover the costs of their planting, the seed stock, and to guarantee a good crop to feed the world's millions. And the flow of fertilizer at the Straits of Hormones is absolutely stopped. In the Nile River Valley, the price of fertilizer is already up by 40%. in the United States, the price of fertilizer has nearly doubled from $350 a ton to $600 a ton. And this means that farmers worldwide, if they plant, are going to be faced with reduced crops.

This was completely irresponsible. If you want to attack the Straits of Hormuz, there are eight months in which you can do it without disrupting fertilizer supply for spring planting. The Trump administration, in its genius, found exactly. the right month to attack Iran and effectively shut down the straits of removes and completely disrupt global agriculture. It's beyond belief ill-advised, shall we say. Professor McCoy, I wanted to ask you, the analogy you used of the Suez Crisis of 1956, the United States played a particular role, not necessarily supportive of Britain and Israel at that time. the Eisenhower administration. Could you talk about that, especially in the context of other

great nations right now, such as China and Russia and others also playing a very distinct role in terms of this crisis? Sure. Dwight Eisenhower, having been the commander of Allied forces in Europe during World War II, understood geopolitics. And right from the beginning, he actually phoned the prime minister of Britain and said to him, Anthony, are you mad? And he didn't mean angry. He meant crazy. And Eisenhower said, if we support the British, the whole world from Dakar

to the Philippine Islands will turn against us. He recognized that this was geopolitical insanity, that it was a rousing Asian and African nationalism, that Britain's global leadership would evaporate as a result of this. Eisenhower

knew it instinctively intuitively because he understood the geopolitics. And this is a geopolitics which Washington seems to be forgetting, okay? There is a, how could I put it? The epicenter of global geopolitical power is Eurasia. And in the dynamics, the geopolitical dynamics of Eurasia, there's something called the Rimland or the Zone of Conflict

that stretches from Poland through the Middle East, Southeast Asia, all the way to the Korean Peninsula. And as the United States pulls back from its geopolitical position in Eurasia, weakening the NATO alliance at the western axial end of Eurasia, and weakening its bilateral alliances from Japan to Australia down the eastern axis of Eurasia, and under the Trump administration, pulling back geopolitically into the Western Hemisphere. Our position is weakening across the whole of the Eurasian landmass. And you mentioned China. China is taking note. One of the key features that has emerged in this war is we're discovering that the United States

has a very limited stock of interceptor missiles. The chairman of the Joint Chiefs has refused to talk about numbers. By my count, and we had something like 4,000 interceptor missiles. Iran had something like 80,000 Shaheed drones. It takes one interceptor missile to shoot down one drone. So if the war drags on, we're going to exhaust our stocks. And, you know, Shahid drones, they cost 20,000. Iran can produce them at about the rate of 10,000 a month.

Our high-tech missiles that cost between $3 and $12 million each are very sophisticated technologically and are not subject to mass production. We can produce them in the dozens every year. So China is watching and they're seeing us exhaust our supply of interceptor missiles. And this means for the next 18 months before the United States through procurements can increase its supply of intercepted missiles. This is a time on that arc of the rimland across Eurasia, okay, and that other sensitive area, the Straits of Malacca leading to the South China Sea and the Taiwan Straits, that this is the prime opportunity for China to strike at Taiwan,

because the United States cannot send its carrier fleets, because in the exchange of missiles, you know, our interceptors in China has something called a carrier-killer missile. In that exchange, of missiles, we will exhaust our supply of interceptors before they exhaust their supply of about 2,000 of the carrier-killer missiles. And so we can't intercede to block China from taking Taiwan at this moment. In short, you add up all these trends, and what you realize is that we're in situation akin to Britain, okay? Our aura of power has been diminished. It's evaporated. We've shown our limits. The United States, the world's greatest power up against a weak and medium-sized country like Iran, cannot prevail. Iran wanted negotiations, and guess what, we are now negotiating basically

on Iran's terms, okay? And this is a signal to the world that the era of U.S. hegemony is fading. Not as fast may be as happened to Britain back in 1956, but fast enough. And, Professor, in terms of these talks, do you envision, any settlement, of course, there are sources, Iranian sources that are denying that these talks are even occurring. But I wanted to ask you, do you envision any

settlement of this war that will not require, as Iran has insisted, the removal of all military bases from the Gulf states and from that area of the Middle East? No, I think

that's, we have a clue. At the start of negotiations, everybody states, their maximalist position and accept something less. I think what Iran really wants is a cessation of hostilities and some kind of agreement about the suspension of hostilities for a fixed period of time, several years or perhaps a permanent cessation of hostilities, in order to maintain an open straits of her moves. That's basically what Iran has got as its negotiating card is it can close the states of remus, which it's done, and it can keep them close and completely disrupt the global economy. Look, there is no place on the planet that is so

sensitive to the operation of the global economy as the Persian Gulf. This is the one area that for so many reasons, the fertilizer, the air transport, the liquefied natural gas, the oil, all of that makes this region very sensitive and absolutely central to the global economy. And so if Iran can shut down the Straits of Ramos and keep them shut, which they have demonstrated their ability to do so, they can then hold the Washington to ransom until Washington settles it on at least minimal terms to satisfy Iran. In other words, as in the Suez Canal in 1956, Nasser from a seemingly helpless position close the canal and won the war.

Iran is bidding fair to do the same. And again, in another parallel, just as British global power evaporated after the Suez crisis, we're looking to a substantial diminution of U.S. global leadership, of U.S. global hegemony in the aftermath of this crisis. And there's likely to be troubled in the Straits of Taiwan over Taiwan in the aftermath of this. Professor McCoy, does it surprise you, that BBC is reporting an Iranian news agency quotes an unnamed source saying there have been

no talks between Tehran and Trump. Again, following this announcement this morning of President Trump, saying he's extending his threat to strike Iranian power and energy infrastructure, claiming on truth social that Iran and the U.S. have had, quote, very good and productive conversations regarding a total resolution of our hostilities in the Middle East. Iran is, I think, at this point, in a better position. Look, we have struck most of the accessible facilities and with our airstrikes.

We've done what we can do. But on the south side of the Persian Gulf, there are these massive desalination plans, massive liquefied natural gas plants and oil fields that are sprawling infrastructure, all of which every pipe, every tank, every tube is loaded with some of the most volatile compounds on the planet. And even a misfired Shahid drunken barely miss. And so this entire infrastructure is lying there unhardened, completely exposed to these strikes by $20,000. dollar drones that result in eruptions of fire and flames and do long-term damage to the

infrastructure. So we've exhausted our threat and Iran has limited threats available, sorry, limitless threats available to them going forward. So in a strategic analysis, Iran right now is in the dominant position. Look, they're doing what all powers do in an asymmetric war, okay? All Iran has to do is absorb the beating and then just wait us out and they will win. And that's what they've done and that's what they'll continue to do. And from a strategic perspective, we've shot our boat, we've smashed their infrastructure. But on our side, the south side of the Persian Gulf, there is a world of infrastructure waiting to be destroyed. And Iran has the means to do that. That means strategically, just like Nasser in 1956, the suicide,

canal, Iran is in the whip, as the whip hand, they're in control of the situation now, seemingly powerless, seemingly vulnerable to our strikes on the surface, but strategically and geostrategically, they hold the winning cards. Professor, I wanted to ask you about the spread of this conflict to other countries and the region, specifically the efforts of the Trump administration, the fiasco of attempting to get the Kurds in Iraq and Syria. to join in and to attack Iran. Your thoughts on that and the refusal of many of the different Kurdish groups get involved and also how the impact of this war on the large Shia population of Iraq

as the mobilization forces in Iraq have also begun to attack U.S. sites in Iraq. Yeah, right at the start of this conflict, President Trump, first of all, called on Iranian people to rise up as they had done in their recent eruption of mass protest. They didn't do that. They couldn't do that because under attack Iran's government managed to clamp down controls. And also, when you're being attacked in the outside, peoples tend to pull together under air attack. Moreover, the Iranian besieged militia, the regular army and the Revolutionary Guards represent a force of about 1.1.0.1. five million armed and trained military and paramilitary. So it's an enormous coercive force. So there could be no uprising. The second card that President Trump tried to play was the Kurdish

card. Iran is about 40 percent minority, and there are three major minorities that have been used geopolitically in the past. The Baluch in the southeast are too far from Tehran to make a difference. The Azeris in the north are close to Azerbaijan, which is sort of neutral in this, so they're not going to move. That means that the only card that America had to play in order to get boots on the ground were the Kurds. And for 50 years, the United States has betrayed the Kurds. Back in 1975, Henry Kissinger, having used the Kurds, the Iraqi Kurds, betrayed them, testified in front of Congress when he ordered the CIA to cut off their aid to the Kurds. He told Congress that covert action should not be confused with missionary work. And Donald Trump,

my good heavens, in an absolutely abysmal decision in January of this year, betrayed the Syrian Kurds after a 10-year alliance between the United States and the Syrian Kurds. He just dumped them to curry favor with the government of Iraq, and the Syrian Kurds have lost 80% of their territory. And so when Trump called the leaders of Iraq's Kurdistan and asked them to support to start mobilizing to have the Iranian Kurds who have bases inside

Iraqi Kurdistan to mobilize, they said no. And so basically we can't play the Kurdish card. We betrayed them one too many times as recently as January by the Trump administration. And so basically,

the only way the United States can influence events on the ground and if that strategic imbalance that I talked about earlier is to send in U.S. ground forces. And with 1.5 million armed and trained troops, paramilitary and military, that is something I don't think the United States is going to do because the casualties would be substantial. Alfred McCoy, we want to thank you so much for being with us, history professor at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. His first book was titled The Politics.

of heroin, CIA complicity in the global drug trade. His most recent book, Cold War on Five Contents, a global history of empire and espionage. His recent piece will link to it, Tom, dispatch headlined imperial decline in the Straits of Hormuz. Next up, we go to Italy. To talk about how European leaders have responded to the war and what this means for the EU itself and for NATO. Stay with us. To extend a greeting A connecting glance Life is just a jaded game to them They will give it a chat

But you know and I know That the galaxy is all as long as the grass grows In the water of the rejoice and it's worth Because freedom is free Freedom is Free by Chicano Batman Performing in our Democracy Now studio This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org I'm Amy Goodman with Ron Gonzalez, and we're both in the New York studio because tonight we're celebrating our 30th anniversary of Democracy Now, independent media.

We'll all be together at Riverside Church at 7 o'clock. And for people around the country and around the world, you can be part of that live stream at DemocracyNow.org. You can watch the live stream. Patty Smith will be there. Michael Stipe will be there. Angela Davis will be there. the Pulitzer Prize-winning poet, Masab Abu Toha, will be there. The, the renowned playwright will be there, and so many others.

Juan? Well, we're continuing to look at the U.S. and Israel, the unprovoked U.S. and Israel war on Iran. Earlier today, President Trump claimed the U.S. had a very good and productive conversations with Iran to end hostilities, but Iran claims there are no direct or indirect talks with the U.S. We turn now to look at how Europe has responded to the war. On Friday, President Trump denounced NATO allies as, quote, cowards for not joining the war and for not helping to reopen the Strait of Hormuz. And Sunday, NATO Secretary General Mark Ruta, said that 22 countries, including many

NATO members, are coordinating efforts to reopen navigation through the Strait of Hormuz, but he offered few details on the plan. He spoke on Fox News Sunday. I know the president was angry because he feels that European and other allies have been too slow. The good news here is that since Thursday, a group of 22 countries, most of them from NATO, but also Japan, Korea, Australia, New Zealand, the UAE and Bahrain, most of the other countries from NATO coming together to implement his vision of making sure that the Strait of Ramos is free, is opening up,

as soon as that is possible. We go now to Rome, where we're joined by Natalie Tachi. She's a professor of practice at Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies, Europe, and a senior fellow at Poconi University's Institute for European Policymaking. She's also a Guardian Europe columnist. Her recent piece headlined Europe's reaction to Trump's war on Iran is a disaster for Europe itself. Professor Tachi, thanks so much for being with us. Why? Explain why you see it as a disaster and the response of the European countries.

Well, thanks a much for having me on the show. I think it's a disaster, not actually for the typical reason why Europeans are a disaster. That is that they are divided. Actually, this has been a war on which actually Europeans have not been too divided. I mean, inevitably, there are always going to be differences and nuances between one country and another. But all in all, basically most European countries, with a few exceptions like Spain and Norway and Slovenia, so not exactly core, if you like, European members. Most other European countries have been united in their ambiguity.

They have neither condemned the illegal U.S.-Israeli attack on Iran, nor have they supported it. They have basically said, no, we're not going to be involved in a war, but many of these countries have actually allowed the US to use military bases based in their countries. So essentially, what you're ending up seeing is a ambiguous European response. And the reason why I personally consider it to be disastrous is that it's basically countering what, in principle, Europe should be for. I mean, you know, we were the ones that were for multilateralism, more international law. And that ambiguity is basically another nail in the coffin of our credibility, our European credibility when it comes precisely to those norms. But there's also been more vocal opposition, not just from a left-wing government such as

in Spain, but in Italy itself. Could you talk about the Italian government's response to this war? So I don't think actually that it's been opposition at. and this is why I come to why I find it so disturbing. What my Prime Minister, Georgia Miloni, has said, has been what Israel and the United States have done violates international law. Good, yeah, fine, yeah, we agree. But she didn't follow it with the next sentence of basically saying,

and therefore we condemn it. In fact, she followed it with the next sentence saying, we neither condone nor condemn. Now, to me, that is actually even, worse than denying the violation of international law, right? Because if what you're saying is, I recognize that there is a violation, but actually I don't think there's anything wrong with it, essentially what you're doing is you're unrecognizing the norm itself. So in a weird kind of way, I actually find it even more disturbing than in a sense of the hypocrisy of denying that this is

actually taking place. Well, meanwhile, the Spanish Prime Minister, Pedro Sanchez, has unequivocally denounced the U.S.-Israeli war on Iran and refused the use of jointly operated bases on Spanish territory for that purpose. This is Sanchez speaking earlier this month. Europe is based on the principles of multilateralism and shared decisions, not unilateralism, international law, peace, respect of a peaceful coexistence between nations and society. Once more, this is what is being questioned once again in this case with the war in Iran. A war that the Spanish government, and I would say the entirety of Spanish society, has condemned from the first moment. We do not support it and think it is illegal.

Unfortunately, it hasn't only resulted in the cost of human lives, refugees, and displaced peoples. We are also suffering from its effects on our people's economies. That was Spanish Prime Minister, Pedro Sanchez. Your sense of why other European countries, especially given the disrespect and the ridicule that the Trump administration has thrown at the European leaders now since he returned to power, what's your sense of why they continue to have this neutral or middle-of-the-road position on this war? Well, I guess, you know, one explanation, which probably would have held, I think, up until several months ago, was, well, because Europeans are scared. I mean, they're scared of what Trump's reaction might be.

Now, the reason why I think that this is an explanation that held in the past more than it does today is that we've already had more than a year of this, right? I mean, we've had a year of Trump threats to Europe, over Ukraine, over Greenland, over trade. And now, of course, you know, Hormuz and Iran. And actually the evidence suggests that when Europeans actually straighten their backs, the world does not fall on their heads, right? When they bend the knee, they simply invite more bullying from the White House. And this is why I just think that, you know, that fear explanation, simply doesn't add up at this point in time.

Now, this leaves another explanation, and this gets into the politics of it. Essentially, in the same way as in the United States, there has been this right-wing wave, you know, captured by Trump and the MAGA movement. In a European sort of version or versions, a similar story can be told about Europe. And so what you end up having is governments

that either are far right, like my own in Italy, all governments like in Germany, for example, that are centre-right, but that fear, or in fact, in the case of France, fear the arrival of the far right and end up adopting part of their agenda. So I think, you know, beyond this element of fear, hey, what's Trump going to do? I think there's this fundamental explanation, which is, you know, many of these governments are actually on a very similar page to that for Donald Trump. So you have, on the one hand, the German Chancellor, mayors allowing the largest U.S. military base in Germany,

Ramstein, to be used in the bombardments of, and Brits also doing the same with their bases in Cyprus. But I want to ask what this means for NATO and what this means for Russia's war on Ukraine. Well, I mean, what this means for NATO, you know, this is another iteration of Trump's threats to NATO, right? I mean, again, you know, we've seen this playing out in different ways. And I think it fundamentally undermines the credibility of NATO, which rests on trust, right? I mean, I think the story of the last year has been the severing of trust across the Atlantic.

And given that NATO's Article 5 on collective defense relies precisely on that trust, you know, Does anyone actually think that if Europe or a European country would be in danger, the United States led by Donald Trump would come to the rescue, right? Or maybe it would be Donald Trump's America, which would be doing the threatening, right? So I think, you know, on the one hand, we have a sort of a real vulnerability at the heart of NATO, which is really coming to the fore. And when it comes to Russia, yes, you know, superficial reading might be, well, you know, Russia allied with Iran, Iran taking a beating,

and therefore Russia down, Iran down. But actually, Russia up, tragically, right? And Russia up, A, because of the price of oil, B, because of the lack of interceptors that the United States can provide to Ukrainians brought by the Europeans. And C, because, and this is where we circle back to this broader question of international law,

you know, Vladimir Putin, Putin very much agrees that international law is not a relevant frame to determine whether a country should invade another, right? I mean, that's precisely what he's been doing in Ukraine. And so to have a world in which it's the survival of the fittest that basically, you know, is the name of the game, is a world which Vladimir Putin is very comfortable with. Finally, we just have 30 seconds. Do you think what President Trump just posted on truth social, maybe because the markets are. in India, rather in Asia, even worse, saying that he's had good and productive conversations with Iran and that all hostilities could soon be over. Of course, Iran is denying any conversation like this has taken place. Well, look, I mean, I've got little doubt in my mind that Trump is looking for out, right? I have far more doubts in my mind that Iran is willing to be out at this

point alongside of course Israel as well. And so if Iran is not willing to play ball, what is it that may make it change its mind? And it may be that, you know, we will need to see others, you know, trying to persuade the Iranians like the Chinese, certainly not the Europeans, right? I think Europeans have lost all credibility in the eyes of the Iranians and not only when it comes to the Middle East. Natalie Tachia, I want to thank you for being with us. Professor of Practice at Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies. We'll link to your piece in the Guardian Europe's reaction to Trump's war on Iran is a disaster for Europe itself. Coming up, the Center on Conscience and War is reporting a spike in inquiries from soldiers to be conscientious

objectors so they can avoid fighting a war against Iran. Back in 15 seconds. A rendition of Wade in the Water by Ruth and May Harris, one of the SNCC freedom singers performing for the Memorial Service of Mary Travers in 2009. at Riverside Church here in New York, where we will be tonight. 7 p.m. is the live stream and the event as we commemorate 30 years of democracy now and look to the future. This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org. I'm Amy Goodman with Juan Gonzalez. We turn now to look at growing opposition to the U.S. and Israeli war on Iran within the U.S. military. The Center on Conscience and War is reporting. It has seen a spike in inquiries from

soldiers seeking conscientious objector status. We're joined by the group's executive director, Mike Prysner. He's in Portland, Oregon. He joined the U.S. Army in 2001 when he was 17, left the military in 2005 after his company participated in the 2003 invasion of Iraq, where he served for a year. He also co-founded March Forward, an anti-war group of veterans and active service members. Mike, thanks so much for joining us. You have reported a staggering surge in calls of people, soldiers asking about conscientious objector status.

Explain what that is and just the scope of this issue. Well, conscientious objector just means you have an objection of participating in war in any form. And, you know, we have, it has been a difficult few weeks because we have so many people and their families who are desperate to find alternatives to being sent to the Middle East. We have a situation where Trump and his team have launched an unprovoked war with no legitimate rationale, no rational justification, and in partnership with a military that has just committed a genocide in the region. They have imposed this on the American people, the Iranian people, and tens of thousands of service members and their families who believe this is deeply wrong.

We haven't just experienced a surge in calls of inquiries, but a surge in people who have actually started the process of filing as conscientious objectors, which is a right to all service members to refuse to participate. We have had about a thousand percent increase in CEO clients just since the beginning of the war. And to put that in perspective, some of our counselors have been doing this for many, many decades and did this through the entire global war on terror, through the worst years of the Iraq War, the worst years of the Afghanistan War, the highest levels of civilian casualties in both of those wars. And what they are saying is the level level that they are seeing now of new conscientious objector clients that we have taken on is unlike

anything they have ever seen before, including the worst years of those wars. And you have to imagine relatively, right, you know, that's a small percentage compared to the number of people in the military. I'm not saying there's a mass uprising of people who are filing as CEO right now. It's a significant number. But those are just the people who have called our organization and sought out our help, even know that this right exists. So how many people in the military do you think know about the Senator in conscience and war, probably not that many. And so while it's a, you know, a relatively small number compared to the hundreds of thousands of people in the military, I would imagine a very small subset actually know about our organization. And we find that the

more we're able to reach, the more people will be calling us to file this, this conscientious objection claim. And Mike, this is before any ground troops have actually been committed by the, by President Trump to this war. In previous wars, a lot of this conscientious, objective status started already in the midst of war. And clearly in Vietnam, it was a major factor in the demoralization and the reduction of force capability by the United States as thousands fled to Canada or even while they were in the military then sought conscientious objective status. What do you envision if the president actually does commit troops on the ground in this war?

Well, I imagine it would continue to spike. But, you know, what I think is significant is, you know, in the many dozens and dozens and dozens of people I have talked to who have started working on the conscientious abjecture claim or submitted it with hours to go before deployment. That's something that's been happening, too. You know, I haven't talked to any service member who said that they are scared of dying in a war that they don't believe in. They're scared of killing in a war that they don't believe in.

They're scared of the long-term moral consequences of their actions in this. moment right now. You know, the number one thing that is cited by service members when I, you know, ask what was their breaking point? What is the reason that made them decide that they had to become a CEO? And it was the Minab school bombing, the U.S. massacre at the girls' school in Iran. You know, I think the military is aware of that, too. We actually heard from a couple people who said that's when they lost internet access and social media access on a ship is when the news of that broke. And so, you know, I think that regardless of whether or not the U.S. commits ground forces, the fact that U.S. troops are being used to kill from neighboring countries,

I think that weighs heavily on people. Look, this is so connected to the past several years. This isn't just come out of nowhere. We know that in the American society broadly, the genocide in Gaza caused a significant shift in consciousness among people in the United States, in particular young people in the United States, and the military is made up of young people in the United States. And so that shift, this consciousness has happened in the military as well. And they have been watching and decided that they couldn't support a government that would kill children with impunity. And then here we are in a war that the U.S. is not only waging with that country, but begins that war by carrying out the kind of action that Israel became

notorious for throughout that war. And so they're having to look at themselves and say, what am I willing to do? What kind of person am I? Can I be a part of the kinds of atrocities that I've turned against over the past several years? And we just have 10 seconds, but several cases of service members who have imminent deployments being taken off the deployment roster when they're considering applying for conscientious objector status? That is something we can fight for. Your command is obligated to accommodate your beliefs. Look, most people will say you join the military.

It doesn't matter if you think it's immoral. You signed up for this. You have to follow orders. Will nobody signed up to violate their conscience? Nobody signed up to violate their deeply held beliefs. And you know what? There are DOD policies that can protect you from having to exercise that. and we can help you exercise.

Mike, guys. I want to thank you so much for being with us, Executive Director for the Center on Conscience and War. Tune in tonight at 7 to our live stream at DemocracyNow.org for our 30th anniversary celebration of Democracy Now. Featuring Angela Davis and Patty Smith and Michael Stipe and so many others. I'm Amy Goodman with Wang Gonzalez.