Democracy Now! Audio - Democracy Now! 2026-04-15 Wednesday

Episode Date: April 15, 2026

Democracy Now! Wednesday, April 15, 2026

From New York, this is Democracy Now. This is a permanent end in this part of the world, and not just damages inflicted on Israel, the damages inflicted on the Lebanese people. We have to remember the Lebanese people are victims of Israel. The Lebanese people are victims of Iranian aggression, and this needs to stop. Secretary of State Marker Rubio

hosted duress talks between Israel and Lebanon in Washington Tuesday. the first such meeting in decades. We'll speak with former Israeli peace negotiator Daniel Levy. Meanwhile, Israel continues to bomb Lebanon. We'll go to Beirut. Then Republican Congress member Tony Gonzalez and Democrat Eric Swalwell resigned from Congress

over mounting allegations of sexual harassment, sexual assault and rape. My delay in taking action against Eric was driven by fear. not doubt, fear of his political power, his background as an attorney, and his family law enforcement ties. We'll speak to Fatima Gross Graves of the National Women's Law Center. And finally, two peace activists, one Israeli, one Palestinian. Maozinan's parents were killed by Hamas on October 7, 2023.

Aziz Abu Saro's brother died after being torquist. in Israeli prison. They have a new book. It's titled, The Future is Peace, a shared journey across the Holy Land. All that and more coming up. Welcome to Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org, the War and Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman. The U.S. naval blockade of Iranian ports has entered its third day, according to U.S. Central Command. The blockade is being enforced by more than 10,000 U.S. troops over a dozen warship and dozens of aircraft. Vessels traveling to or from non-Iranian ports are allowed to pass through the Strait of Hormuz. This comes after U.S. Iran's ceasefire talks collapsed over the weekend in Islamabad, Pakistan. President Trump told the New York Post Tuesday

that new U.S. Iran talks, quote, could be happening over the next two days. Separately, Trump told Fox news, the war is, quote, close to over, unquote. Meanwhile, the Washington Post reports the Pentagon sending thousands of additional troops to the Middle East in the coming days. Since the U.S. Israeli war in Iran erupted, the U.S. military has acknowledged 399 American troops have been wounded. Iran's forensic chief told state media more than 3,000 Iranians have been killed. The president of Iran's Red Crescent Society said emergency teams had rescued more than 7,200 Iranians from rubble after U.S.-Israeli bombings. This is the Iranian President Massoud Pazchkian. By what right did they attack our country? What had we done? For what reason did they martyr our leader?

What had we done? For what reason did they martyr our commanders, our scientists, our students? What was their reason? Why? What had we done? Had we attacked anyone? Had we violated any law? What had we done? In Washington, D.C., U.S. Secretary of State, Marka Rubio Tuesday, hosted the first direct talks between Israel and Lebanon in more than three decades. Hezbollah, which was not a party to the talks, made clear it will not abide by any agreement

that results from the negotiations. Meanwhile, Israeli forces continued to bomb towns in southern Lebanon today, according to Lebanese state media. Several people were killed in a strike on the coastal town of Ansaria. According to Lebanon's health ministry, Israeli attacks have killed more than 2100 people, wounding nearly 7,000. Over a million Lebanese have been displaced while the World Food Program warns of a spiraling hunger crisis in the region. In Gaza, Israeli forces killed at least 11 Palestinians Tuesday, including two children in separate attacks.

Four people were killed, including a three-year-old in a strike targeting a police vehicle in Gaza City with at least nine bystanders wounded. Later that evening, another Israeli drone strike hit Shati refugee camp, killing several people. Gaza officials say 754 Palestinians have now been killed since October's so-called ceasefire brokered by the U.S. On Tuesday, Palestinians gathered at El Shifa Hospital. to mourn three-year-old Yahya al-Malahi, who was killed in an Israeli air strike. This child, his father had him after girls. He is the only son for his father.

What is his fault? What is his crime? He should be wearing a wedding suit today at his cousin's wedding. Instead, he wore a shroud stained with blood. Only God can help us. Kuwaiti American journalist Ahmed Shahab Eldon has been held in a Kuwaiti prison for six weeks. He was arrested March 3rd in Kuwait City and faces prosecution in a special tribunal.

On March 2nd, he shared photos and videos of a U.S. fighter jet that crashed in Kuwait on his substack page, content that was not exclusive to him and had appeared on other platforms. Kuwaiti authorities have charged Shahab Eldon with spreading false information, harming national security and misusing his cell phone, which the Committee to Product Journalists describes as, quote, vague and overly broad accusations that are routinely used to silence independent journalists, end quote. His detention is part of a wider crackdown on online speech in Kuwait and other Gulf countries during the U.S. Israeli war on Iran. In the United Arab Emirates, authorities say police detained 375 people across Abu Dhabi over the course of the war for filming

and disseminating what officials called false information on social media. Shahab Eldon is a graduate of Columbia Journalism School, where he's also taught as an adjunct lecturer. He's worked with several outlets, including PBS, the New York Times, and Al Jazeera English, and has more than 2 million followers online. Italy's right-wing prime minister, Georgia Maloney, announced Tuesday. Italy is suspending its defense cooperation agreement with Israel. This comes after Israeli forces fired warning shots an Italian U.N. peacekeeping convoy in Lebanon.

Italy summoned Israel's ambassador and protest over the incident, which damaged at least one vehicle. Meanwhile, President Trump criticized Maloney for failing to join the U.S. in its attacks on Iran, telling an Italian newspaper, quote, I'm shocked at her. I thought she had courage, but I was wrong, Trump said. This is the Italian Prime Minister, Georgia Maloney. Taking into account the current situation we're experiencing, the government has decided to suspend the automatic renewal of the defense agreement with Israel. Republican Congress member Tony Gonzalez of Texas and Democratic Congress member Eric Swalwell of California officially resigned from Congress Tuesday, both of them face.

potential expulsion votes after they were accused of sexual misconduct. Gonzalez admitted to an affair with a former staffer who later took her own life and faces additional accusations of sending explicit messages to a campaign aide. Meanwhile, another woman has accused Congress member Swalwell of sexual assault saying he drugged and raped her in 2018. Lana Drews is the fifth woman to come forward with allegations against Swalwell. well. She spoke at a news conference in Los Angeles Tuesday. He raped me and he choked me.

And while he was choking me, I lost consciousness. And I thought I died. It had a profound, in fact, on my mental health. I self-medicated in an unhealthy way. I did not want to live anymore. I cried all the time for years. The Justice Department has requested a federal appeals judge overturned convictions for members of far-right groups, the proud boys, and the oathkeepers who were previously found guilty of seditious conspiracy in connection with the January 6th insurrection. Since returning to office, President Trump has issued pardons and condoms.

mutations to about 1,600 people who'd been charged in the January 6th attack on the U.S. Capitol. Several leaders with the proud boys and oathkeepers were granted clemency. Tuesday's filing by the DOJ would erase the convictions from their records. In Washington, D.C., an appeals court has ordered a federal judge to end his investigation into probable criminal contempt by Trump officials who deported dozens of Venezuelan immigrants to El Salvador's secut megaprisen last year in violation of a court ruling. Last March, Judge James Boseberg spurred a year-long standoff with the Trump administration after he ordered federal immigration officials to halt the U.S. deportation flights bound for

El Salvador, which they ignored. Judge Boseberg then launched a probe into Trump administration officials condemning their actions as unlawful. The ACLU's Legal Alert, who's the head. lead attorney for the Venezuelan plaintiffs in the case condemned Tuesday's ruling by the appeals court as, quote, a blow to the rule of law. Galerz said in a statement, quote, the stakes could not be higher if the executive branch is ultimately allowed to avoid accountability for deliberately violating a court order, especially one of this magnitude, Galern said. In Arizona, opposition is mounting against the Trump administration's plans to build a second border wall. The second barrier would reportedly run parallel to another border wall that's already standing along Arizona and Mexico,

cutting through several wildlife refuges, national park sites, and the Thonautum Nation. Parallel border walls are also reportedly planned in California, New Mexico as part of Trump's crackdown on immigration. And in Tennessee, the NAACP is suing Elon Musk's XAI, accusing the Artificial Intelligence Company of Polisian, black neighborhoods with toxic emissions from its makeshift power plant, fueling its data centers in Memphis. The lawsuit alleges XAI is violating the Clean Air Act by operating over two dozen methane gas burning turbines without legal permits. The massive XAI data centers are known as Colossus and Colossus 2. To see our coverage of this story, go to our website, DemocracyNow.org. We'll also be doing more on Earth Day. That's next April 22nd.

In related news, Maine's become the first state in the nation to ban large data centers. Maine lawmakers Tuesday approved the statewide measure, which would prohibit the construction of new data centers that use up more than 20 megawatts of power until the fall of 2027. And those are some of the headlines. This is Democracy Now. Now.org, the Warren Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman. U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio hosted the Israeli and Lebanese ambassadors in Washington Tuesday in the first direct talks between Israel and Lebanon in over 30 years. The talks come as Israel continues to bomb areas across Lebanon and expand its occupation of

parts of southern Lebanon. Israel says they're focused on disarming and dismantling Hezbollah. More than 2,100 people have been killed in over a million. displace. Hizbollah, which was not a party to the talks, made clear it will not abide by any agreement that results from the negotiations and called the talks a national sin. Speaking to reporters after the talks in Washington, Israel's ambassador to the United States, Yachia Laird, praised the Lebanese government for standing up against Hizbala. The head of Hizbala warned the government of Lebanon yesterday not to participate in these talks. And the government of Joseph Allen bravely said no to Chisbalah.

And this is the beginning of a very strong and fortified, consistent battle against Chisbalah. They are weakened as they've never been, and together will continue to rid the threat of this Iranian proxy, which is so malign and so malignant in the region. In a statement to Reuters, the Lebanese ambassador, Nada Mawad, described the meeting as constructive. She also called for a ceasefire, the return of the displaced to their homes, and measures to alleviate the humanitarian crisis. To discuss all this and more were joined in London by Daniel Levy, president of the U.S. Middle East Project, former Israeli peace negotiator under two Israeli prime ministers. His recent op-ed for The Guardian is headlined what Benjamin

Netanyahu and the Israeli right really mean when they invoke greater Israel. Well, let's start there, Daniel Levy. What do they mean? Good to be with you, Amy. What I tried to set out in that piece that's also on my substack is we tend to think, understandably, that greater Israel is exclusively about territorial expansion and settlement. And of course, that has been part of the story of Israel and displacement. of Palestinians has been the centerpiece of that. What I'm suggesting is there's something additional, more geopolitical, more strategic in play here,

that Natanyahu is trying to turn Israel into a dominant regional power. It's not just about the land you take. There's a limit to small population, how far they can settle, how much sense that makes. But Israel understands that if it is going, going to be able to continue its policy of zero sum eradicationism towards the Palestinians. It needs a quiescent region. And for that, it needs to be surrounded by states that have either been dismantled that cannot therefore challenge Israel or by states that have been co-opted in which Israel has

created relations of dependency, and often that will mean weakening a state. And so I place that in the context of this war against Iran, it needs America to achieve that. It needed America for that war against Iran. If you can remove Iran as some kind of a power balancer and deterrent. If you can, for instance, weaken the Gulf and create relations of dependency of the Gulf states on Israel significantly more than you have today, then that power project begins to look possible. I think it's overreach. Israel will tell us its deterrence, but its domination. Israel will tell us its survival, but it's hegemony. I don't think they can achieve it, but to understand what one is confronting, one needs to understand what is being attempted here by the Israeli side. And that is

what I suggest they are trying to achieve. So talk about these rare negotiations that took place in Washington overseen by the U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio. The first time Israel and Lebanon have held negotiations in over 30 years. Of course, they didn't include Hezbollah and Israel continued its attacks on Lebanon. One of Israel's key ultimatums is the disarmament of Hezbollah. Can you talk about how these negotiations are unfolding? Yeah, let me try and do that. There were, by the way, meetings in Nakura in Lebanon at the end of last year of official Israeli and Lebanese teams, which were very unusual in December and January. December 25, January, 26. But I guess this kind of official termed as a negotiation hasn't been seen

for an awfully long time. Now, what the Israeli side comes to this with is something that is designed to sound eminently reasonable. Of course, if there is a non-state actor, that should not be able to carry arms and decide when the state of Lebanon is taken to war. And therefore, what could be more obvious than a disarmament in that context? Take a step back and let's understand why the position Israel is asserting is anything but reasonable. You have a resistance in Lebanon, you have an armed group and you have a very weak central state, partly because that's a deterrent strategy by Iran, but it only is sustainable because Israel is a country that is invaded. Lebanon, I think it's seven times now, maintained a military occupation of the south of Lebanon

and established its own proxy militia to run that for 18 years, 1982 to 2000. Since then, continues to violate Lebanese airspace, Lebanese sovereignty on a daily basis, even since the ceasefire reached in November 2024. There have been, as of a couple of months ago, the UN counted 10,000, Israeli violations, 300 Lebanese killed during the so-called ceasefire. That sounds familiar from Gaza, well it should. And so the idea that Israel can come to the table with clean hands make these demands of a Lebanese government that it knows is in no position to implement that. It also knows that this Lebanese government did try and create the political conditions where you could begin to move towards at least the south of Lebanon and then later the rest of

Lebanon where a political arrangement could be reached that Hezbollah would not carry on with this same capacity. Israel knows that what it is doing here is it is trying to put something that sounds reasonable on the table, but with the intention of embarrassing and humiliating the Lebanese government, which cannot carry these things through, because it, Israel, has created the conditions which makes that impossible and it did so. Let's just remind ourselves, it did so off the back of one, of the most violent, destructive and ugly military strikes against a country that has known very many bad days, Lebanon, on the day after the ceasefire was declared. So Israel creates the worst possible conditions in which to make a demand which is intended to not be achievable

and it seems to throw Lebanon back into a civil war. That's an outcome that Israel openly talks about. Let me say something, Amy. When I was involved as a negotiable, The first thing I learned, the first thing I was told is if you're going to have a successful negotiated outcome, not a diktat, not a military imposed outcome, but a negotiated outcome. You have to think that each party needs to come away with this, with a victory narrative that they can go back to their public, with their dignity intact. and Israel is doing the precise opposite, including the words we heard from the ambassador yesterday, designed to embarrass his Lebanese interlocutor, designed again to embarrass the Lebanese government. This is not an exercise in problem solving. This is an exercise in trying to pursue a zero-sum agenda, which has nothing in it for the Lebanese side.

Finally, if you can talk about what's continuing to happen in the West Bank and Gaza, the number of people who have died just in the last few days, let alone the hundred since the so-called ceasefire. Yeah, and I so appreciate you pulling us back to that because that's the story that so many people want to leave behind, move on from, pretend isn't there. We are told that there is a ceasefire in Gaza. during that ceasefire in excess of 700 Palestinians have been killed.

There have been killings every day. Israel continues to occupy directly over 60% of the Gaza territory. Israel continues to conduct daily military operations to prevent much of what is desperately needed and simultaneously to pursue its most destructive campaign in the West Bank that we have seen in decades, probably since 1960. we're hearing that, for instance, Marwan Barguti, a prisoner in Israeli jails, has been roughed up, badly beaten on a number of occasions. Recently, we've seen images of Palestinians being allowed to return to refugee camps in Janine

for the first time in an awfully long time and seeing the destruction that has taken place there. It only makes sense in the context of what Israel itself defines as the pursuit of what it calls total victory, which means the permanent displacement of Palestinians physically, but also displacement of the idea that a Palestinian national collective will ever have its rights, its basic freedoms. And that is all continuing for one very simple reason, that Israel has been emboldened and empowered, and that's true on the Palestinian front,

but it's also true regionally. that's why America was sucked into this war. Israel has been emboldened and empowered by the impunity with which it has been treated for decades, never held accountable. And that encourages what we see today, which is horrible to behold, not only in terms of what it is doing to Palestinians, Lebanese, the region, but also what it means in terms of the extremism inside Israeli society itself, of how consent in society was manufactured for an ongoing genocide.

Daniel Levy, I want to thank you for being with us, president of the U.S. Middle East Project, former Israeli peace negotiator under Yitzhak Rabin, and Prime Minister Ehud Barak. Thank you so much for joining us. This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org. I'm Amy Goodman. As we go now on the ground to Lebanon,

where the Israeli military bombed towns in southern Lebanon, today, according to the Lebanese state media, several people were killed in a strike in the coastal town of Ansaria. According to Lebanon's health ministry, Israeli attacks have killed over 2,100 people wounding nearly 7,000. Over a million Lebanese have been displaced. 40,000 homes have been destroyed or heavily damaged. We go now to Beirut, where we're joined by the investigative journalist and writer Leila Yunis. Her latest piece for dropping. Upsite news headline, massive Israeli assault on Lebanon threatens U.S. Iran's ceasefire. Lela, your own family's village in the south and Binch Jabel, right near the border with Israel,

was bombed just yesterday. Before I ask you about the response to the Israel-Lebanon negotiations taking place in Washington, can you tell us about your village and how you found out about what's been destroyed in this latest bombing? Thanks for having me back, Amy. What we're finding out about our village is really the way that everyone and the border region is learning about what's happening in their villages, which is through satellite imagery that is being released, much of it from the Israeli military. So they've kind of revealed these before and after shots.

We saw one also from a few days ago of the village of El Chiem. Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry, where, you know, you know, you see literally what was once a built environment reduced to dust. And the same thing with Vintesh Vail. So yesterday we received imagery of the very famous hundreds-year-old mosque of the village, the Grand Mosque of Vintagberg, basically flattened. And so that's really how we're learning about the destruction of our homes is through saddling imagery,

because we can't be there because it is obviously the forefront of this battle. So what are your family members saying? And what do you understand the rest of the world understands about what's happening in southern Lebanon? As Israel says, they're just trying to disarm to wipe out Hezbollah. Well, what we're seeing is it's a scorched earth campaign. I mean, we're seeing images similar to those that we saw in Gaza, which is civilian areas reduced to rubble. I shouldn't have to tell you that this is obviously against international law to target civilian areas. way. They're going in with armored bulldozers. You know, they begin with their artillery

shelling. They go in and then they tear up the street. They tear up the homes. And of course, many of these areas were severely damaged in the last round of fighting in 2024. And they're sort of finishing them off now, particularly, again, the border region where they're able to actually reach these areas with these bulldozers. I mean, I think what the world should know is that we will return to these villages and when we do, we'll return to Prubble. And it will be an immense process of rebuilding. And, you know, I think, Amy, like, for us, you know, it's not just real estate that is lost when these homes are destroyed. It's not just a house. It's, you know, it's, it's, uh, our grandparents built these structures. These structures are, are, you know,

sacred to the families of these regions, you know, in the same way that the Israeli military flattened vast swaths of Gaza's cultural heritage, universities, mosques, archives. The same thing is happening in southern Lebanon. It's this exact same playbook. And so, you know, what is being used or being explained in terms of some self-defense strategy is really, in fact, an effort at, you know, destroying a people. Leila, can you respond to what's happening in Washington with Marco Ruby of the Secretary of State presiding over the first negotiations between Israel and Lebanon in over 30 years, Hasbala, is not included. What is your analysis and the response of people on the ground in Lebanon as Israel

continues to bomb Lebanon through these talks? The Lebanese people is deeply divided on the question of negotiating directly with Israel. I've spoken to people on both sides and both camps. You know, those who kind of stand with the government and these negotiations will tell you, hey, listen, you know, we're a poor Mediterranean nation, unable to to, to, to, stand up to Israel militarily, look at Egypt, look at Jordan. They look like they're doing all right with the normalization agreements. Why can't we do the same? But of course, a very large percentage of the country, particularly those, the majority in the areas under the heaviest bombardment, are vehemently opposed to negotiations primarily because Lebanon is still being bombed, as you just

said. Just this morning, right, an aid convoy or an aid van, sorry, on the highway and the coastal highway in the south was bombed. We see images of, you know, a baby formula and diapers spread across, you know, the blood of these drivers who were killed exactly one we could do today, a massive bombing campaign across civilian areas killing over 300 people, you know, in what Lebanese are calling Black Wednesday. So for many, you know, also, of course, the exclusion of Hasbullah from these talks that makes many believe them to be unsurious. The talks are about Hasbullah's weapons, but Hasbullah isn't there and the Lebanese government, as Daniel said before me, is unable to disarm this group. So what exactly are these negotiations really doing other than, you know, giving Netanyahu

basically the green light to kind of, or at least the ability to buy more time for his aggression in Lebanon, something clearly stated already by the Israeli press. And I think, you know, it's also important to remember. Many Lebanese don't see the Israelis or their American guarantors as reliable negotiating partners. You know, the Oslo peace process was supposed to be a peace process instead. You know, in the subsequent decades, we see the entrenchment of the occupation, settlement building in the West Bank, the transformation of the Palestinian Authority into this, you know, effectively a police force for the Israelis.

And of course, in the 15 months before the current escalation, right, the UN counted over 15,000 violations by Israel of the agreement with Lebanon. You know, I first time I came on your show, Amy, I. I told you about a man named Mustafa Arut from the border village of Meisijabal. And he had lost two young relatives, Haydhar and Lukaia, ages two and four, under Israeli bombs in the early days of this escalation. And I've been following up with him throughout this war. And I reached out to him this morning because I wanted his thoughts on the negotiation. I want to read you what he said.

I translated it. He said, how are you going to negotiate with an enemy that is killing you under the bombs? We can only negotiate from a logical place, not while we are under fire. We have to first protect our people, protect our country. We left our home with nothing but the clothes on our backs. We have fled five times over the course of our lives. Since the year 1948, we have paid with our blood. We don't want parties.

We don't want masters. We want a nation. We want the state to protect us as a nation. For us people of the South, the land is not just trees and stones and dirt. it's our history. Our parents and grandparents, our heritage, our livelihoods, our pride, our dignity. This is what breaks our hearts. I saw yesterday images of our village, how they're going through it with bulldozers, tearing everything up, making it unfit for life. But we will return, if even, to dust. And we will pitch tents on top of it, and God will take care of the rest.

Lely Eunice, we want to thank you so much for being with us. investigative journalist, writer based in Beirut, will link to your piece in drop site news. It's titled Massive Israeli Assault on Lebanon Threatens U.S. Iran ceasefire. Coming up, Democratic Congress member Eric Swalwell, and Republican Congress member Tony Gonzalez, have resigned from Congress ahead of potential expulsion votes after being accused of sexual misconduct involving form. staffers and more. Stay with us. Sunny Singh in our Democracy Now studio.

This is Democracy Now.org, the Warren Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman. A warning to our viewers and listeners, The story contains references to rape and sexual abuse. We turn now to Capitol Hill, where Democratic Congress member Oakswell of California, Republican Tony Gonzalez of Texas, both resigned Congress on Tuesday. Each had faced potential expulsion votes after being accused of sexual misconduct involving former staffers. On Tuesday, New York Democratic Congresswoman Alexandra Casio-Cortez said this moment should mark a, quote, important recent. setting point in Congress, saying abusive power should never be accepted in above all in public

office, unquote. Congress member Swolewell's resignation came just days after CNN in the San Francisco Chronicle reported multiple allegations of sexual misconduct against him. In one case, a former staffer said Swalwell raped her twice, leaving her bruised and bleeding. She told CNN the misconduct began when she was. a 21-year-old staffer. It was in 2019. I was, again, driving him to an event.

This was my job. And you were 21 years old, and I was 21 years old. We see some sort of parking lot, and he says to pull over. He pulls out his penis and instructs me to give him oral sex. And I started to, again, I felt incredibly uncomfortable. And I stopped, and I said to him, this feels really uncomfortable. and anyone could see us right now. And he said to me, you're right.

It's probably not good for a congressman to be caught with his pants down. The staffer went on to describe another time waking up naked in his hotel room and a third incident in 2024 when he raped her years after she'd stopped working for him. Eric Swalwell has denied the allegations. On Sunday, he dropped out of the California gubernatorial race. Swalwell's resignation from Congress came on the same day. A California woman named Lana Drews came forward and said Swalwell raped her in 2018 after he promised to help her make business connections.

He invited me to two public events. I knew he was married at the time and that his wife was pregnant. He was my friend. on the third occasion I believe he drugged my drink I only had one glass of wine he we were supposed to go to a political event and he said he needed to get paperwork

from his hotel room when I arrived at his hotel room I was already incapacitated and I couldn't move my arms or my body He raped me and he choked me. And while he was choking me, I lost consciousness. And I thought I died. Republican Congress member Tony Gonzalez's resignation from Congress yesterday comes two months after the San Antonio Express News revealed he had an affair with a staffer who later took her own life.

The paper also revealed Gonzalez had previously sent him. explicit text messages to another staffer. We're joined now by Fatima Goss Graves, president and CEO of the National Women's Law Center. Welcome back to Democracy Now. Your response to what has taken place? Well, as of today, these two members are no longer part of Congress, but that certainly shouldn't be the end of the story of accountability here. It shouldn't be the end of the examination that Congress should be undertaking into why it is. They keep having these very serious types of allegations of abuses of power. And it also should focus and refocus the mind on the fact that Congress is there not just to handle itself,

but they should be looking at the way in which sexual harassment and violence is pervasive in many institutions across this country. Our reset, as Representative Acacia Cortez said, is exactly right. Talk about what needs to happen right now. And whether or not, well, it's very clear that Eric Swalwell, the Congress member, who was one of the top candidates for the Democratic governor's primary in California, will be criminally charge from New York, the Manhattan DA investigating him to California. And if Congress should still bring charges or sanction or censure these men, even after they've left? So for sure, as individuals, I think we're going to see a lot more investigating. And the survivors who

have come forward to share their experience, they deserve far more than that. So you may see both criminal and civil investigations happening, and each of them will be responding to that. But Congress itself shouldn't see these resignations as the end of the story here. They actually see it as the beginning of investigating not only what happened with these two individuals, but they need to understand whether or not they have a problem that is more of a pattern. If you were talking about any other employment setting and you saw two very powerful individuals with very serious allegations, you would wonder if you had a pattern. And so Congress, I think, has a problem of it only investigating itself. They probably need some sort of outside, independent, and transparent look at into what exactly is happening.

whether staffers and interns and other people who engage regularly with Congress are experiencing harassment and violence and whether or not their systems of reporting are working at all. And then there are another two Congress members, both from Florida, calls in Congress for Republican, Corey Mills and Democrat Schiller-Chiefelis McCormick. Mills is facing a House ethics investigation into domestic violence and campaign finance violations. So here's the thing. When I think about both Gonzalez and some of these other allegations, they've been out there for a long time. And it should not be that you have to wait for some sort of bipartisan infraction for Congress to do something. about it, to either threaten expulsion to take a very serious vote. When you have the level of information that the Ethics Committee has had, it seems like they should have been moving forward anyway.

You know, when you talk about why this is happening, part of what is going on is you have a sense of entitlement and a sense that there won't be consequences no matter the conduct. And that comes from the highest levels. The tone that is being set right now about having no consequence, whether you're talking about the president for his own actions or other cabinet members, there needs to be a giant reset. And finally, the Epstein files, Fatima Goss Graves. Former Attorney General Pambandi failed to appear on Tuesday to testify under oath before the House.

Oversight Committee regarding her handling of the Jeffrey Epstein files, three million pages still not released. You know, what a clear violation of a law that was very explicit around what the Department of Justice should be doing right now. And I think that is not the end of the story for Pam Bondi. It isn't enough for her to resign and just wander away as if she has nothing to do, Congress was very clear. They were demanding that she testified and they should hold her into contempt for not returning and doing what she should do. This is an example where the survivors, against all odds, have continued to come forward and demand serious accountability.

They're doing it even though the president said he doesn't want it. They're doing it even though the Department of Justice has obstructed them along the way. I suspect we will see real accountability here. No one is above the law. And this latest news from CNN over Trump has been mentioned over 1,000 times in the Epstein files. Fatima Goss Graves, I want to thank you so much for being with us, President and CEO of the National Women's Law Center, of course, who will continue to follow these issues. Coming up, the future is peace, a shared journey. across the Holy Land, a new book jointly written by a Palestinian peace activist and an Israeli peace activist.

Mao Zinan's parents were killed by Hamas, October 7th, Aziz Abu Sarah's brother died after being tortured in Israeli prison. Stay with us. New York City, Palestinian Youth Choir. democracy now, democracy now.org. I'm Amy Goodman. The future is peace, a shared journey across the holy land. That's the name of a new book by our next guests, Aziz Abu Sara and Maozinaan. One is a Palestinian peace activist, the other an Israeli peace activist. They first met after Maozinan's parents were killed in the October 7, 2023 attacks by Hamas. Over the past two years, they've closely worked together calling for peace in Israel and Palestine.

In a moment they join us, but first I want to turn to an excerpt from the documentary The Path Forward, directed by Julie Cohen and Mo Hussein. The clip begins with Aziz talking about reaching out to Mao's after October 7th. It didn't matter to me that Mao's parents were Jewish. That's not part of the calculation. When people talk about October 7th, it's Israelis versus Palestinians. It didn't feel to me Israelis versus Palestinians. Those who were hurt, those who were killed were my people too.

I just replied immediately, thank you for being there. A few days later, he made a post on Twitter. I am not crying for my parents. I am crying for those who will lose. their lives in this war. He doesn't want revenge and he doesn't want what's happened to him to cause more people to suffer. And I said it took me eight years to come to that point. When my brother, Thaisir died, he was 19 years old and I was 10 years old. He was arrested on suspicion of throwing rocks. He was beaten up in prison by an Israeli soldier, which caused internal injuries.

He died as a result of those injuries. It's still painful. A few days after Ma'O's parents were killed, it's just I can't imagine stepping out of your pain to think of somebody else's pain, to think of what other people are going through. It takes so much of a humanity of someone to do that. So I wrote him that, and he sent me a message right away saying,

let's talk. I knew that my life has changed dramatically. It's not just what happened to my parents, my childhood friends, Israelis. I knew that a war is just about to happen and a war that we have never experienced before in our lifetime. So every contact, every bridge, every relationship that I knew that I would be able to build with Palestinians, it's very meaningful, not just for me, Maoz, as a person, but for the region.

An excerpt from the short documentary, The Path Forward, directed by Julie Cohen and Mo Hussein. In 2024, Aziz Abusara and Maozinaum met with Pope Francis. And just about a year ago, they then met with Pope Leo shortly after he became Pope. We're joined in studio by Aziz and Ma'os, co-authors of this new book, The Future is Peace, a shared journey across the Holy Land. Aziz, what makes you so hopeful to say the future is peace? I'm hopeful because I've worked in many other conflicts around the world. I was in Colombia. I was in Northern Ireland.

I was in South Africa. I was in all these places. And what I've learned is that it doesn't matter how horrible a moment is. And the moment we are in today is very terrible. Have friends in Gaza who lost their entire families. Have friends like Maoz who lost his parents. My brother was killed. That every conflict ends at the end. How did your brother die?

My brother died due to... And how old was he? He died due to torture in Israeli prison when he was arrested, an allegation of throwing rocks who was taken from home. and he refused to confess, so he was tortured, and he died soon after he was released from prison. He was 19 when he died, and I was 10. And so I grew up angry. I grew up believing peace is impossible.

But at some point I realized when I was 18 that Maoz and I are not on the opposite sides. To bring justice, to bring peace, to bring equality and dignity to all of us, we have to work together. It can't be Israelis versus Palestinians. has to be those of us who believe in justice and equality and peace working together versus those who don't believe it yet. And the goal is to bring everyone to believe in it as well. And we will get there because if they did it in Northern Ireland and if they did it in South Africa and they dismantled oppression

and systems of oppression in those places, then there's no reason we cannot do it. How do you see it ending here? How do you see the occupation ending? The solution, I think, is less the problem in the sense it can work in a one-state solution, can work in two-state solution, can work in Confederation, which would be my preferred solution. But I think the more important is what are the values and what this solution is built on. Any solution that is not based on equality, any solution does not cease dignity, recognition,

and safety for everyone. It will fail. It can be two states like Russia and Ukraine are two states. It's not working. It can be Rwanda, one state. We saw what happened there. It's all about what values you build on. And if we don't promote those values and saying Ma'os' life and my life and my family's life and his family's life are equal, then every solution would fail. That's what we should be focusing on. Ma'os, can you talk about your feelings when Aziz reached out to you and then this friendship that you have developed over these years with both of your parents now dead. Yeah.

So it was only three days after I lost my parents and many of my childhood friends and people I knew my entire life. And I was literally, not as a metaphor, I was literally drowning in an ocean of sorrow and pain. And when Aziz reached out to me three days after, offering his condolences, it was like a hand, saving me from drawing in this ocean. And in the last two and a half years, we've been working together,

co-authoring, the future is peace. And now I can say, yes, October 7th was the most tragic day of my life. I lost so much and so many. But on that day, I also won Aziz. And I warn Aziz as a brother. And a brother to our shared journey. And I'm hopeful because I know that all conflicts end in the end. It doesn't matter if they last days, weeks, months, years, or decades or centuries.

History proved the ends in the end. And the only question we should ask ourselves is when and how many life will be lost. And what is already proven through history, that we need enough people, enough people that realize that we have the agency to change the future, to create the future we deserve to live within. And this is exactly many of the stories we bring to life in our shared journey, is stories from biblical time, mythos, history, and we share many stories of the people we meet.

We are meeting Batya Segev, a friend of my parents from the kibbutz, who lost her daughter, her son-in-law, and two of a grandchild. And an hour after, we are speaking to Abdulrahim in Gaza, who lost so many of his family members. And they are both sharing their pain, their suffering, but they also encourage us, supporting us, on our share journey. As you speak to the Jewish community here in the United States,

I'm wondering your thoughts and your sense of how many, for example, feel the way Senator Bernie Sanders does, who has promised to advance a resolution to block bombs and bulldozers to Israel in Congress. I think what matter is not where they are today, is where they can be in the future. And one of the most remarkable, remember, the day in the life of the state of Israel was the day Anwar Saadat, the president Israel visited Israel in 1977, only four years after he wage war over Israel.

And while the two weeks before, the entire discourse in Israel in the Jewish diaspora were against negotiation, not against peace agreement, not against land swap. They were against negotiation. And day after he visited Israel, the discourse changed completely. So we need to remember ourselves and the others that discourse, public opinion, they are very flexible. And we, the leaders, if it's within the civil society, if it's like Bernie Sanders, we are the one that should bring the change within the discourse. Aziz, I'm wondering if you can talk about your visits with the popes, Pope Francis and then Pope Leo. Certainly Pope Leo in the headlines right now because Trump has been attacking the first U.S.

born Pope. And Leo's response has been, even though you make many prayers, I will not listen. Your hands are full of blood in a reference to what the U.S. has been saying overall, especially with the U.S. Israeli attack on, on. Iran, talking about President Trump responding that Leo is weak on foreign policy and going further, even releasing this AI image of himself, President Trump, as Jesus Christ. Yes, and I've read the Bible, so did my oz, and we talk a lot about faith in our work. And in Arabic, the name of God is Salaam, which means peace.

And in Hebrew, it's Shalom, which means peace. peace as well. And if God is peace, then his followers should be going in that direction. Blessed are the peacemakers is what the Bible says. Love your enemies. Pray for those who persecute you. When we met Pope Francis, we met him in front of 12, 13,000 people in the arena at the Pache, a Roman theater. And as we told our story, everyone stood up and started cheering for us. And he invited us to him and then gave us a big hug and said, you are brothers. which means Mao and I are tied together forever because in Catholicism there's no divorce. But he also told us the only place there's no disagreement in the world is a cemetery.

You'll always have disagreement. It's about how we solve these disagreements. We as a humans can solve it through diplomacy, through talking to each other. And it was the same when we met Pope Leo. It was very clear to us. He just had become the Pope that peace is something he prioritized. We were among the first people to meet him. We invited the delegation of peacemakers to meet with him, and he highlighted our peacework and said, this is the work that is needed today.

So I'm not surprised to see him speaking about peacemaking. I should say that Leo said, Pope Leo said, made his comments about your hands are full of blood after Hegset's prayers for violence. And I wanted to end with Maoz. What responsibility does the U.S. has, U.S. have as an obstacle to peace, Israel backed by this enormous military might of the United States. We just have 30 seconds. Yes. So the U.S. has huge responsibility in letting the war going on and supporting it with

weapon and iron-dump diplomatic approval for everything Israel is doing. But this is exactly why we are here today in your studio, Amy, to call the American people. If the common people like ourselves and member of the Congress and politician and as leader, it's also within your agency to join us and to bring peace to the Holy Land. I want to thank you so much for being with us. Maoz-in-on, Aziz Abu-Sara, co-authors of the new book, The Future's Peace a Share Journey Across the Holy Land. That does it for our show.

I'll be in Los Angeles tonight through Friday night. For the theatrical release of Steel the Story, Please, the documentary about Democracy Now. Tonight at the North Hollywood Lemley, tomorrow night in Glendale. I'll also be in San Francisco and in Berkeley and in San Rafael and in Sonoma. Check out the website, democracy now.org. I'm Amy Goodman. This is Democracy Now.