Democracy Now! Audio - Democracy Now! 2026-10-06 Tuesday

Episode Date: October 6, 2026

Democracy Now! Tuesday, October 6, 2026

New York, this is Democracy Now. Yes, we're going to keep blocking until the government hears us, until there are different ways to take action, until the government listens to us, and as long as they don't listen to us, we won't stop this fight. Nearly 2,000 French high schools are blockaded or closed today. As student-led protests spread across France over school funding and inequality. We'll go to France for the late. Then to the Democratic Republic of the Congo where the death toll from Ebola has topped 4,000. As we speak now in Democratic Republic of Congo, there are seven provinces which are affected. 63 health zones are affected, and two newly affected zones were recently identified.

We'll speak to a Congolese journalist at the epicenter of the outbreak, as well as Dr. Craig, Spencer at Brown University. He survived the Ebola virus in 2014. We'll also look at how President Trump's cuts to global health funding have fueled the Ebola outbreak. Then a federal judge has issued an emergency injunction to block the Trump administration from building new border barriers and roads inside Big Ben National Park in Texas. All that and more coming up. Welcome to Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org, the War and Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman. The Supreme Court's opened its new term Monday by hearing oral arguments in a case that could determine whether fossil fuel companies can be held liable for their role in creating the climate

crisis and covering it up. The case concerns lawsuits brought by city and county officials in Boulder, Colorado, who sued ExxonMobil and Suncor Energy in state courts seeking damages for the costs of droughts, fires, floods, and other effects of global heating. During oral arguments, justices appeared skeptical of claims that federal law preempts state tort laws that could be used to sue energy companies. Climate justice groups rallied outside the court, joined by several young people who signed an amicus brief highlighting how children are especially vulnerable to the climate crisis. This is Alina Miranda, who is 16 years old when her family home was consumed by the Marshall Fire, the most destructive in Colorado. history. I did not create the climate crisis, but I am already living with the consequences. I signed an amicus brief because I believe my state has a right and duty to protect my health

and hold corporations like Suncor are responsible for the damage they've caused by prioritizing profit over long-term climate health. The Supreme Court should not take away the ability of my local government to protect me. The Pentagon said Sunday, it killed four people in a strike on a speedboat in the Caribbean, once again, provoked. no evidence to back its claims the vessel was carrying drugs. That brings the number of people U.S. Southern Command claims to have killed to 238 since the Trump administration began blowing up civilian vessels in the eastern Pacific and Caribbean Sea last year. In response, Amnesty International USA, wrote, quote, nearly 240 dead in this illegal campaign of extrajudicial killings, i.e. murder at sea. Where is Congress to stop the horror, they asked.

In Saudi Arabia, officials say three people were injured Monday as Houthi fighters from Yemen launched attacks on two regional airports. The attacks came as Yemen's Saudi-backed government announced its forces, had recaptured the Red Sea port city of Mokha as part of a counter-offensive to drive Houthi militias from the areas around the strategic Baba Mandeb Strait. Meanwhile, officials in Turkey and Pakistan say they would rapidly deploy troops to Saudi Arabia as part of a mutual defense agreement signed in August, known as the Mecca Pact. The announcement came as the Saudi-led coalition launched airstrikes on what it said were weapons, sites in Yemen's Houthi-controlled capital, Sana. The International Chamber of Commerce is warning of a growing global food crisis due to disruptions to shipping through the Strait of Hormuz caused by the U.S. Israeli war in Iran. The group's Secretary General told the Wall Street Journal, fertilizer capacity has fallen by nearly 40 percent since the strait was disrupted, with grain prices set to rise by up to 80 percent unless it's reopened. On Monday, President Trump defended

his decision to attack Iran telling a campaign rally in Grand Island, Nebraska, high gas prices are a small price to pay. It's a small price to pay for keeping the world safe, keeping our country safe. They can take out a city. Let them take out Los Angeles. Let them take out San Diego. That's, this is a very small price to pay. And it's going to be over a person. The statement drew condemnation from elected officials in California. Los Angeles, Mayor Karen Bass, responded, quote, the role of a president is to protect the country not to actively threaten it and courage attacks on American lives, she said. Ukraine launched a massive attack on Russia overnight with 650 drones targeting the Moscow region.

The attacks killed two people, set a warehouse on fire. It's Ukraine's second largest drone attack yet on the Russian capital. It follows claims by Ukraine that a Russian drone sunk a ship in Romanian waters in the Black Sea. Romania reported that two people were killed when a grain ship caught fire and sank. Kenya's detected its first ever case of Ebola. The patient is a Kenyan citizen who's been living in the Democratic Republic of the Congo and arrived in Nairobi over the weekend. The patient has since died. His death comes as the DRC is combating its largest ever outbreak of Ebola, recording more than 8,000 cases.

4,000 of them the people died. Later in the broadcast, we'll speak with a Congolese journalist at the epicent. of the Ebola crisis and Dr. Craig Spencer at Brown University. He survived Ebola in 2014. New York, Governor Kathy Hokel declared a state of emergency on Monday due to the rapid spread of measles in neighboring states and in rural areas of New York as well as the city. The declaration came as the number of measles cases in Pennsylvania so far this year surpassed 1,000. The largest state outbreak in more than three decades. people have died so far. Officials blame low vaccination rates for the outbreak. In Russia,

a worker at an anti-plague laboratory died from a, quote, pneumonia of undetermined origin last week, unquote. According to Russian media, nearly 200 people who've been in contact with the worker, have been placed under precautionary medical observation. U.S. Secretary of State Marker Rubio said Monday, If something like that gets out, it could quickly spread, he said, adding the U.S. is monitoring the situation closely. In Texas, opposition is mounting against a proposed ICE jail and processing center that will be located inside a 640,000 square foot warehouse in San Antonio's east side. Mayor Gina Ortiz-Jones says city officials are exploring legal options to block the site after federal officials failed to respond to questions about its impacts on the environment and local community. The jails also opposed by San Antonio area Congress member Joaquin Castro, who cited reports of inadequate medical care and abusive conditions in ICE

jails, including sexual violence. Over the weekend, hundreds of protesters marched to the warehouse site, calling on ICE to get out of San Antonio. In related news, immigrants detained at the Folkston Ice Processing Center in Georgia have released a video from inside. denouncing inhumane conditions. We are immigrants from all over the world whom Trump is locking up in prison-like detentions for nothing and for a long time. Most of us are asylum seekers,

those who came to the United States seeking protection from political persecution and violence in their home countries. Many fled out of fear, becoming political prisoner. In those countries, and one might say, we became political prisoner in the United States, simply because we are immigrants. to two hours of yard a day. And the rest of the day, we are locked up and gone. We're strictly controlled and restricted and everything. What we can have, watch, and play. When we can eat and sleep,

shower, and go to his toilet. Honour, we need to respect mean nothing here. The guard insult us, humiliate us, threaten us, and punish us when they want. The Folkston Ice Jail is operated by the for-profit prison company Geo Group. A Chicago teacher who has shot five times by a border agent filed a federal civil lawsuit Monday, alleging false arrest and imprisonment, malicious prosecution, emotional distress, and negligence. Maramara Martinez was shot last October as she followed federal agents carrying out immigration raids in her neighborhood, honking her horn and shouting to alert her neighbors. Immediately after the shooting, the Department of Homeland Security declared Martinez was a

domestic terrorist and accused her of using her car as a weapon. But federal prosecutors abruptly dropped charges just weeks later. Martinez lawyers say they have proof that Border Patrol agent Charles Exum shot Martinez without justification and that he was not in danger at the time of the shooting. In news from Southern Arizona, dozens of armed Border Patrol agents Monday raided protest camp in Loquillo, arresting at least 20 people who'd been protecting a 200-year-old. cottonwood tree in blocking the Trump administration's expansion of the border wall for over two months. The camp had been in place since July, with activists taking turns to sit up high in the branches

of the giant sacred cottonwood. In video footage from the scene Monday morning, witnesses are heard screaming as an excavator rips out the cottonwood, known as the grandmother tree from its roots to make way for Trump's border wall. To see our coverage of this story, go to our website at DemocracyNow.org. We'll have more on this also later in the broadcast. In related news, federal agencies have declined to renew permits for a dozen water stations operated by the Tucson-based nonprofit humane borders to help migrants crossing the treacherous Sinaran Desert. This comes as the remains of at least 86 migrants have been found in the region this year alone

as people are forced to cross through more remote and dangerous areas of the U.S.-Mexico border due to the expansion of the wall. This is Octavio Fuentes, Executive Director of Humane Borders. Water is a human right and the removal of water stations during the surge of migrant deaths is absolutely deplorable. It is cruel. The government's border strategy that they've had in place for the last 30 years is prevention through deterrence. it's what has pushed people into this desert for 30 years. Now it's going to deny water and more people will absolutely die as a result of it. Mexican President Claudia Shanebaum is requesting evidence after U.S. ambassador to Mexico, Ronald Johnson, claim shots fired from Mexico targeted

U.S. Coast Guard. The alleged shooting reportedly took place in the Texas-Tomalipas border. in late September. Hundreds of U.S. troops, helicopters, drones, and other military equipment have since been deployed to the region in response. This is the Mexican president speaking from Mexico City Monday. They even sent it in writing, stating that there have been shots fired from the Mexican border into the United States. We have requested all the evidence that this was the case, because we have no evidence. No member of the National Guard, the Army, or the Navy has detected any shots fired from the Mexican border into the United States. And President Trump said Monday,

his super PAC will pay for his campaign style ads instead of using federal funds. The use of taxpayer money to fund Trump's midterm ads drew swift backlash even from some Republicans. The government has reportedly spent at least $10 million to air the ads. Public citizen blamed broadcast networks for accepting the taxpayer-funded campaign style ads, saying, quote, the letter to broadcasters notes that they should refrain from airing advertisements that they know are otherwise illegal under the law, and that broadcasters must maintain a public file on any political ads they air. failing to uphold this duty can result in broadcast license revocation, unquote.

And those are some of the headlines. This is DemocracyNow, DemocracyNow.org, the War and Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman in New York, joined by Democracy Now co-host Juan Gonzalez in Chicago. Hi, Juan. Hi, Amy, and welcome to all of our listeners and viewers across the country and around the world. Nearly 2,000 French high schools are blocking. hated or closed today as massive student-led protests spread over France over school funding and inequality. The demonstration began in September at a single school outside Paris where students

protested teacher shortages, overcrowded classrooms, and crumbling school buildings. But the scope of the protests has widened amidst a violent crackdown by French police. French authorities have arrested more than 5,000 people since the movement began. About 85% of them high schoolers. These are the voices of two students protesting in Paris earlier today. For us, it's first of all in support of the high school students who started blockades a few days ago. I think we all have a role to play in this movement. And the more we are, the more we will be heard.

And I think this is not a fight of a few handful of people, but a more global fight for the youth. We feel despised, because when the answer is violence, that means in a way democracy is no longer working. But we feel especially that there is such a gap between the elites and us, and we feel we are creating unease because we are disrupting so much that they are using force to shut us up. I'm quite happy because, for once, we see a real movement of the youth everywhere, and we hear about it. But then what I deplore is that the media is showing more of the violence done by the students before their demands, which are vital. And yes, there is a bit of violence, but it's not everywhere.

France's budget will come to a vote soon, so we hope there will be a higher budget for education. And for the presidential election next year as well. We hope for a bit of change after 10 years of President Macron heading the country. France's official independent national human rights body has expressed deep concern over what it called the state's disproportionate use of force in response to the protests. On Monday, Democracy Now reached a French student

who described the violent police crackdown for her safety she asked not to be identified. During the protest, people, students receive tear gas, receive, like, get hit, get attacked, get charged by policemen by the Cres, which is a police invitation. And yes, basically, it has been really violent. Many people have been warned.

Many people have been arrested. Someone lost an eye. Someone lost a hand. And this is happening to the literal teens, liberal children. We even, most of us aren't even adults yet. And this is terrible because literal adult people, adult policemen, adult policemen, adult This woman with weapons and tire gas and shields and helmets are attacking litful students with some cardboard with messages on it.

Like we're pacifist and our movement is nonviolent and yet we received so much violence from the government. That was a French high school student afraid to be named or shown. We go now to France. We begin with Claire Vigno, the General Secretary of the French Student Union, the FSE. She's at a protest in Ren in northwestern France. Thanks so much for joining us, Claire. If you can start off by talking about how these protests began, when people hear suburbs, they think more middle class.

But in France, it's basically the opposite where more poverty is concentrated. Talk about the schools, the high school students, and how this has great. grown. Yeah, so it started like a few days ago and maybe 10 days ago, something like that. And now it's getting bigger and bigger every day. Yes, it started in Sandinie, which is a suburbs near Paris, but very poor suburbs. And it started because class conditions, like studying conditions are really getting worse and worse. And like, there are water in their class. They have rats in their class. The roof is falling out and

yeah, so it's getting harder and harder to study for these high school students and so they started to block their high schools and now it's widened out to most of the high schools in France. Actually today the state

decided to close 500 high schools because they didn't want them to be blocked but even with that precaution 500 more high schools. And schools are blocked. And for now, we are, for now we are, we have also like 90% of the universities, the campuses that are blocked. And we are going to keep on going, keep on going to block. Today we were on a protest in Rennes. We are trying to escape from the policemen

that are chasing us with tear gas. And, um, we were. with water cannon. And so, yes, it was a very big protest in Rhen. There was actually like 16,000 people in Rennes, which is not a big city. And one thing to note is that the minister of the interior told today the head of the biggest trade union in France that Rennes was going to be an example of repression of violence. and to show all the rest of the movement that we can't do what we are doing now, which is protest for our living conditions.

And Claire, could you talk more about what the demands of the students are and especially their concerns about so many of these schools having no air conditioning in warm weather that heat gets up to 35 degrees Celsius and 95 degrees Fahrenheit, especially given that France has had so many people die during heat waves this past year? Yeah, yeah, because we have seen a lot of classes, even classes for like really young child, starting from six years old, being in classrooms, where there were like 35 students with temperatures attaining 35 degrees and even more. Some of them attained 40 degrees, and we are concerned because you can't learn really

in a really good way when you are under this weather and we are fighting, of course, for the weather conditions like the standing conditions, but not only. And obviously we are struggling for more budgets in school and

less budget in the army because in France the finance for the army doubled in 10 years. And when they, at the same time, the budget for education is getting lower and lower every day.

And so that's like the air conditioning is of course one of the goals, but not only. And before even having air conditioning, we would like to have safe classrooms with no bad products for our health in the buildings. And we would like if it rains outside, we don't want to rain in our country. classrooms, et cetera, et cetera. We're going to go right now to southern France, where we're joined by Cole Strangler, a journalist in France covering politics and labor. The significance of this protest, Cole, I mean, we see Claire in the streets of Wren,

there are protests in Lille, a nationwide day of protests, the college unions and other labor unions joining in these protests right now. thousands of people arrested about 5,000, over 87% of them kids in high school? Yeah, that's right. And I think maybe just to compliment some of what we've been already been hearing, you know, those issues have been absolutely at the forefront of what I've been hearing on the ground here. I was just at a protest in Ex-en-Provence, just in the south of France, just north of Marseille, where students were telling me their own stories of the dilapidated conditions of some of their buildings, which to be fair aren't nearly as bad as when we talk about

the suburbs of Paris, where you have rats in the hallways. But still, people talking about dilapidated buildings, having to install nets around the buildings to make sure there's not falling debris. That's an issue I heard about. And, you know, another issue people talk a lot about here is the staff shortages, the lack of teachers. This has been an issue that's been bubbling up for years, in fact. And we heard it mentioned. France's amount of spending that France has done on education has stagnated, if not declined. You know, if you go back to the late 90s, 1997, France was spending over 7% of its GDP on education. That's declined about nearly a percentage point. So the government's spending

less. And the salaries are quite low as well. That might be shocking to some viewers of the United States. You know, a starting salary for a public school teacher in France is around 2,000 euros. Even mid-career professionals are making less than the OECD average, less than the European Union average. And so when you have low salaries, you know, and you have dilapidated buildings, it's easy to maybe understand why you have these staff shortages. And so this is an interesting issue where the critiques that high school students are making are actually very similar to what teachers unions have been saying for quite some time. So there's an issue of the shortages. And I think another key issue that that's emerged. And again, students were talking about

both the high school students I talked to earlier today and the university students who join the protest was the issue of what in France they call Pakul Soup, which is the new platform that was introduced a few years ago, which is basically an application platform for high school students to get into universities. That is not very transparent. There's a lot of critiques about how this seemingly mysterious system will offer university spots to students. So students aren't getting to go to the universities. They want to go to that are close to them. They might have to move halfway across the country. That means more money

that they're spending on rent. They can't live with their parents. And so that critique of the university application process is something that unites again, both high school students and university students. And that's what's been interesting when you talk to people on the streets here is to see to what extent the high school student issues actually resonate beyond just just high schools, right? It's university students. It's also trade unions. Today, at the protest that was at, you had a lot of trade union support from, you know, the main labor unions in France. I think the movement is really resonating because it's really hit a nerve here on a lot of issues that are important to French society. And Cole, I wanted to ask you, the French

government has accused the left-wing political party, France unbaud, of stoking the violence at the, or some violence at these protests. Can you talk about the significance of this? Can you talk about the significance of this, especially as France is preparing for next year's presidential elections? Yeah, you know, I was talking about this earlier, and I think that this line that we've indeed heard from the government, I think it is both a great exaggeration of the mobilizing power of that party, that France insomis led by Jean-Iquemanchon. And it's also, I think, an insult to the collective intelligence of the high school students who are protesting. I mean, I don't think it's physically possible for a political party to have this brought up.

reach. So I think that's sort of an easy excuse. But that's, you know, that's indicative of the approach the government has taken so far. And, you know, this question of police repression and police violence, which we heard about just earlier has also been something that's been kind of pushing the movement forward. A lot of French people, I think, have been shocked by the degree of the police violence. You know, we heard there was a 15-year-old who had his hand basically blown off by picking up a stun grenade that the police use here. We had another student who lost the use of his eye because he was hit by a rubber bullet. These are like, you know, low-grade, almost military kind of technologies that the police use

in France. And it's part of a policing strategy that has been in place for several years now. Many of your viewers might remember the Yellowest movement back in late 2018, where we had, you know, decentralized mass protests and a huge amount of violence where you had protests having, you know, losing their eyes, losing their hands. The difference here, and this is what makes it frightening, is we're not talking about adults. We're talking about literal high schoolers. We're talking about 15, 14-year-olds who are being beaten by police. And, you know, there have been incidents, we should just be clear, there have been incidents of, you know,

people attacking police officers at some points, firefighters. But that is the extreme minority. And I think the much bigger story here, we're talking about a Democratic country where the police have been attacking high school students. And I think it's, again, it's documented. There's been hundreds of complaints that have been filed with the French government to this effect. This French policing strategy that was used during the yellow vests is now being directed against high schoolers. And that's also energizing this movement. A lot of people think it's unacceptable. We're going to go from Ex-en-Frovence, where Cole Stangler is, to Lille, France, from the south to the north of France. Alice Rowlands is a university.

student and member of the National Board of the French Student Union, also just at a protest. Alice, thanks so much for joining us. As we wrap up, what do you think it's most important for us to understand about this mass protest that's taking place in France and what you're demanding and how this might even affect the national elections that are coming up next year in France? Yeah, absolutely. I think the most important thing here is that it started with. with the high schoolers today, it's also university students,

but we've seen also teachers, we've seen farmers, we've seen the yellow vesters who want to join again. We've seen everyone want to join this mobilisation because I think what's very interesting about this one here is that everyone is deeply, deeply angry. We are completely fed up of the living conditions, the school conditions, the work conditions that we have, and everyone is really, really deeply angry.

and that's what's really interesting at the moment. So the students, like they've said, are being faced with really strong repression from the police forces. So have they said before, there were many kids, these are children who are being shot at with rubber bullets and tear gas and water cannons who are being chased, who are being, you know, arrested massively. And this is completely unheard of before. It's only been a week of this mobilisation with different different protests and schools being blocked, etc.

And it's already over 5,000 people arrested. And as you said, mostly children. And so this is completely different from things that we've seen before. And because France, it's quite often there are mobilisations and things, but this is completely a different proportion because people are really deeply angry about what's going on and the conditions that we are living in. And I think this will have an impact because we're already seeing things changing.

But what people want right now, it's not one reform. It's not one thing. It's a deep change in the system and more budgets for the public services in France, which is behind all of this. And Alice, what is your sense of the response of adults or the parents? of these children, of the general society, to the way that the government has reacted to the student protests? Yeah, that's an interesting question, because we can see in protests to loads of parents,

and we've seen online on TikTok and the different apps that the teachers and parents have been joining the protests because they understand that the students, the high schools especially are really deeply angry, and they are completely fed up of going to, school and then there being rats and the ceiling falling down and chemical products in the ceiling that are giving us cancer. Like it's completely insane.

And so the parents and teachers, but also much wider, the general population are completely with the mobilizations. But the media are only showing violence and this and that. But the true violence is the violence of the police, the violence of the repression. how is it possible that children, 14-year-olds are having their eyes being blown off, their hands being blown off, their teeth being completely ripped out by these rubber bullets and tear gas,

how is it possible that this is happening in France today? 5,000 people arrested mostly children, how is this possible? The true violence is the violence of the states that we are being faced with all day, every day, all year. That's the true violence, having no money, having difficulty finishing the month, having less and less help from the states, having to choose between eating and putting your heating on during the winter.

It's that kind of violence that we are faced with all year. And so, you know, the parents and the teachers and why the general population are completely agreeing with everything that they want, the students, the high school is the university, students are also much wider. Everyone has things they want to change. Alice Rowlands, want to thank you for being with us from Lille, from the north of France, University student member of the National Board of the FSU, French Student Union. I also want to thank Cole Stangler, journalists based in France covering politics and labor issues, joining us from Ex-en-Provence in the South, and Claire Vignot, General Secretary of the French

Student Union, joining us from the streets of Rennes, where the massive protest also is taking place today as it is across the country. And just to underscore something Juan said about the heat and the lack of air conditioning, this isn't just a luxury. We're talking about 8,000 people in France this summer died from heat. Coming up, we go to the Democratic Republic of the Congo, where the death toll from Ebola has top 4,000. Stay with us.

Because the ocean is all of our. And life will feel zero ripples in the waves and the sun rays from the storm. Marriage or sense why the freedom is free. Freedom is free by Chicano Batman. This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org, the war and peace report. I'm Amy Goodman with Juan Gonzalez. The Ebola epidemic in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, the DRC, has killed over 4,000 people since. the World Health Organization declared a public health emergency in May.

At least 50 health workers are among the dead. More than 8,300 cases have been recorded and counting. It's now the fastest growing Ebola outbreak in history. The number of recorded cases appears to have peaked in August, but that drop may be due to undetected spread and insecure areas. The largest number of new cases are currently in the North Kivu province. The outbreak was declared in May, but health authorities believe it began spreading in January. The delay in detection was due in part to international disinvestment in global health, particularly the rapid dismantling of the U.S. Agency for International Development, USAID,

last year when Trump took office. Earlier this week, tents at a displacement camp of 19,000 people were burned by soldiers looking for weapons. A transit center used for Ebola patients there was also destroyed. Many families fled the camp. Across Aturi, more than 373,000 people are living in displacement camps due to ongoing conflict. Meanwhile, many workers on the front lines of the Ebola response say they have not been paid in months, despite being critical to containment efforts and putting themselves at risk. Workers protested in Bunya, the capital of the Aturi province this week. the epicenter of the crisis accounts for 90% of the confirmed cases.

This is health investigator, Biogi Beiza, of the Bunia Health Zone. The reason for our frustration is that the authorities still owe us. We went two months without pay. There are outstanding payments owed to our colleagues for the first 45 days. They haven't been paid. The WHO had a sign for transport allowances covering a period of 75. days. Unfortunately, they still haven't settled that. This information's complicated the responses.

Information in local languages has not been readily available. This is Lydia Kohlm of the Atturi Journalist Syndicate, who says local journalists have had more trouble accessing sources. Even within the communication pillar focused on risks and community engagement, there is no presence of local journalists, including those living in Bunya or the Aturi province. This means that when people, People see others coming to raise awareness, but the population trust journalists much more. It creates a certain mistrust within the community.

We ask the response teams to provide us a spokesperson whenever journalists need someone to speak so that we know for each situation to discuss prevention, to know who we can approach to talk to. So the journalists address this person directly. If we need to talk about epidemic surveillance, we will be able to speak to the appropriate person, without much back and forth. If we need to discuss aid and dignified, secure burials, issues that still cause problems in the community, we would already know who to turn to. If the response team can provide us with this kind of people as resources, they will have greatly helped us address the difficulties.

For more, we go to two guests. Independent journalist Kilimali Choma Choma is an independent Congolese journalist normally based in Kinshasa, who's been reporting from Eturi since the start of the outbreak, a contributor to the Friends of Congo blog and Substact, joining us from BNIA, the capital of Aturi. And from Providence, Rhode Island, we're joined by an Ebola survivor, Dr. Craig Spencer. He's a public health professor, emergency medicine physician at Brown University. He contracted Ebola in Guinea in 2014 while on a medical mission there. He made a full recovery at Bellevue Hospital here in New York. Let's begin with Akila Mali. You are in a tourie. Can you talk about what exactly is happening in the epicenter of the outbreak?

4,000 people now dead. And now we have word. A person has died in Kenya as it crosses the border. I mean, we're talking about diseases like this, no, no borders. Tell us what we should know, Akila Mali Choma Choma. Thank you so much. What you should know exactly is that the situation is still worse, even if the government say that the situation is under control, but until now there is no any sign which can confirm us that the situation is under control. You have so many organizations which are working here on the ground, but with no more results, including on the surveyor of the situation, you have also, as you said, you have also so many local organizations who are working, like Sofepadi,

Basanja Coalition and other and the other organization who are working on the ground but which doesn't have enough money like international NGOs but they didn't get inside they didn't get more resources to do what they can do and

it's them who are more easy and more near to population. This is the first and the second Ebola is spreading a lot because at the beginning it was only one province, and in that province it's only three health loan.

But right now, it's now in Democratic Republic of the Congo, 64 health loan and seven provinces which are touched. And right now, we know that Kenya now has a case of deed. And we have Uganda, which had in a few weeks ago, his last case. So it means the situation it's not 100% under control even if there are some

activities like medical activity which are done by partners of the government to response to this Bundibudu outbreak. But Akili Mali, this whole issue of the frontline workers

who are risking their lives to combat this outbreak, they're not being paid. What is the government saying? and what are health officials saying about the reason for that? So many of them are saying that those persons didn't pay because they have to analyze their data and they have to analyze their identity. But the problem right now, the government said also that they haven't enough money to help

them because the government only invest from the beginning of this outbreak around. 15 million of US dollars right now, and international partners put around 600 million right now, and those 600 million are under control of NGO. This is what government is saying, and it isn't enough resource to response. And also, there are NGOs which are saying that it's an issue or the government to response to this issue, to this issue and to pay local staff. And they are always promising them that they will have solution, and some of them have been paid,

but others until now haven't been paid yet. And Akili Mali, can you talk about you yourself, afraid that you were coming down with Ebola? Talk about your experience in one of these clinics and getting tested. Exactly. Shortly, I had some disease and I went in Ebola treatment center where I should be received. I have been received at an Ebola treatment center here near Bune. And in that Ebola treatment center, I received a good medical help, a good medical help.

And this is the opportunity to thank all, Dr. All-Healthworker, all eugenists and all a person who are working in this risky environment, but without being paid or with not enough money. But for my experience, I experienced how afraid, because, first of all, I was afraid because when you went there and you are seeing near you that there are people, other people were dying in a room after, you are listening. that there are other people who were declared positive of Ebola, and they went with them to the positive case rooms.

And it's really scared. It's really scared. And also there are so many things which didn't work really, really well, like things through food, like things of water, like things of sanitation. And for example, for food, they didn't really give the answer. They didn't really ask the person, what will you eat and what you can't eat? So they can prepare. They are only like in prison and they can take.

They are only preparing and they are putting there and you have to eat if you don't eat. You will manage yourself while other people from outside can't join and can't give other things from the, from out. to ask people who are in the red zone, in the zone where are some suspected cases. I'd like to bring into the conversation, Dr. Crick Spencer, public health professor and emergency medicine physician at Brown University. He's an Ebola survivor himself. Dr. Spencer, what can you tell us about why this latest outbreak of Ebola has spread so quickly and some of your own experiences. Well, the biggest reason that it spread so quickly

is that we didn't detect it until much later than we ideally would have. This was first detected back in May, so just about five months ago, but by the time that Congo and the international community was aware of the outbreak, it had already been spreading for months and has been pointed out already

is the fact that it went from a few health zones to dozens of health zones, which means that in every single one of those, you need to stand up a team and a response. You need to build an Ebola treatment center. You need to work with the community so that they can trust that the center there is taking care of patients and their loved ones, but you also need to staff it. And that often means local staff, but bringing in international partners, NGOs. That requires a lot of money, a lot of expertise. And you can see how this starts to build up into a really complicated response. This is what we're

seeing over the last five months is that at the outset of this outbreak, there were, you know, a couple hundred cases that were identified really on day one of this outbreak when it was reported. But that is much bigger than most Ebola outbreaks are when they end. So just the way that this started was already problematic. We knew that on the day one of this outbreak, there were already cases in Congo, but also cases reported in Uganda next door. Since then, Uganda has led a really efficient response and has been declared a bullet-free. But with this case reported today in Kenya, it highlights the fact that if there is an outbreak or multiple fires that are burning as they are, particularly around North Kivu in Congo right now, the risk of onward transmission, both locally,

internationally and further abroad remains high. And it's something that we need to remain vigilant about. Otherwise, this outbreak is going to continue. And the risk to the neighboring countries, as well as those communities in Congo and countries further abroad remains high. And Dr. Craig Spencer, if you can talk about the role of the dismantling of USAID and what role USAID, the Agency for International Development played, and what exactly the NSPS is, the National Special Pathogen Service. these are all incredibly important because we are seeing this outbreak emerge and really unfurral in a setting of decreased global health support, not just from the U.S., but from many countries around the world, but the U.S. played an incredibly large role up until the first week of the Second Trump administration. If you recall back then, there was an Ebola outbreak in Uganda, just days into the Second Trump administration. USAID had already been kind of incapacitated, and since then, the U.S. has not shown up in the same way that it has in previous Ebola outbreaks.

In the past, we would have sent people to be on the ground in the middle of these communities that are most affected. Right now, the U.S. is not doing that. We're not sending our CDC people into the same communities. They're staying in the capital or far away, meaning that they're relying on secondhand information. As you pointed out, we don't have USAID capacity here to work with local actors, to support them, to make sure airport screening is being done, and people who are symptomatic are not getting on planes to travel further afield. And without the USAID capacity, that means that moving samples or testing samples is not going to be as efficient as it has been in the past when the U.S. helped coordinate a lot of that. And the result is that you have not just in eastern Congo,

where there's an Ebola outbreak still ongoing and he's still getting much bigger. You have PEPFAR or other programs that were helping provide HIV treatment to millions and millions of people around the world that are less robust than they were just over a year, two years ago. And the result has been that many people, unfortunately, are dying because of the U.S. pulling back in its global health commitments. At the same time, you mentioned NSPS. the U.S. over the past decade, in the aftermath of infections like my own and others, built this incredible hospital system all throughout the U.S. We have over a dozen extremely well-equipped, well-equipped, well-prepared hospitals

to deal with things like Ebola at a moment's notice. We have put hundreds of millions of dollars, if not more, into making sure that they're always ready. But what we've seen over the last few months is that when Americans have been infected with Ebola, responding to the outbreak on the ground in eastern Congo, they have not been brought back to these well-prepared facilities ready for them in the U.S. Instead, this administration has done everything that it can

to bring these patients to places outside of the U.S. So two Americans were not brought back home, as we know we're capable of and have done in the past to provide them high-quality care. They were brought to Germany, where the teams are wonderful, but if it were me, and I was a U.S. citizen, and I would want to go back home, particularly knowing that there's a system built exactly for this. And my worry is, is that going forward, Americans won't know that this system exists.

Politicians won't be aware of how important it is, and we won't continue to invest in it in the future. Dr. Spencer, we just have 30 seconds. But here in New York, the governor has just declared an state of emergency because of measles, which was considered eliminated in 2000, a quarter of a century ago. A fifth person have died of measles in Pennsylvania right now. There are over 100 cases in New York. Your response? Most people don't know that 45 states have reported measles cases this year.

New York is one of the few to declare this an emergency. It expands who can test and who can vaccinate. But it doesn't do anything to address the underlying trust issues that many of these communities have. New York is challenged because next door Pennsylvania has had. over a thousand cases. We've had five deaths this year, eight over the last two years. And so we're dealing with a pretty unprecedented outbreak, something we haven't seen in decades in the U.S. And the worry is, is that there are multiple fires all around the country, and any of these can get much bigger. And it's likely that we'll have many more, maybe thousands of cases

of measles and more unfortunately deaths in the near future because of this ongoing outbreak. Dr. Craig Spencer, public health professor, emergency medicine physician at Brown University, and Ebola survivor himself, and Akila Mali Choma, independent Congolese journalists reporting from a tourie since the start of the outbreak speaking to us from Buna. Coming up, a federal judge has issued an emergency injunction to block the Trump administration from building new border barriers and roads inside Big Bend National Park in Texas. Back in 20 seconds. The songbird has lost her voice It's hard to sing when there's no choice The raven has lost his wings

When he wished he learned to sing The business has moved to town They're cutting all the oak trees down And there's nothing left to say Songbird by Henry Furland. This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org. I'm Mimi Goodman with Juan Gonzalez. We end today's show with a victory for environmentalists.

On Friday, a federal judge in El Paso, Texas, temporarily blocked the construction of new border wall and roads in Big Bend National Park and nearby areas. Judge Kathleen Cardone said her preliminary injunction will remain in place until a lawsuit filed by the Center for Biological Diversity and others is resolved. The judge also signaled the plaintiff, constitutional claims against the border wall expansion are likely to succeed in court. In August, bulldozers started tearing into Big Bend National Park, but we're met with growing

resistance from protesters and advocates who've long warned of the devastation border militarization has had on desert and other sacred ecosystems along the U.S.-Mexico border. Well, for more on this, we go to Tucson, Arizona, where we're joined by Lake and Jordan, National Public Lands Advocate with the Center for Biological Diversity. Welcome back to Democracy Now, Lakin. Explain this victory. And wasn't this Republican-appointed judge who ruled against the Trump administration? Yeah, it's so nice to be back to share some incredible news.

We had what I would call a truly historic victory in court on Friday. Effectively, we slammed the brakes on $7 billion worth of, of corrupt construction contracts, not just in Big Bend National Park, but across almost one-third of the entire U.S.-Mexico border. No victory like this has ever happened before. Of course, you know, this is not the end of the road. We have a lot to continue to fight for, but we have effectively stopped construction across West Texas, and it's incredible.

And could you talk about the growing opposition to Trump's border enforcement and militarization campaign, not only in Texas, but across the border states like Arizona as well? Yeah, you know, it really feels like an incredible moment for the borderlands. We've got so much solidarity and connections to what's happening in lo-keel with the cottonwoods being cut down, what's happening in the Rio Grande Valley, where walls are still going up. And while this victory only applies to about one-third of the border in West Texas, we really hope that this shows that DHS's power is not infinite.

They have used this waiver authority to strip away the rights of communities, of wildlife, of indigenous nations. And now, for the first time, a court has said that this waiver authority is very likely unconstitutional. So my hope is that this wind can spread across the borderlands and that we've really shown the chink in the armor of this waiver authority that has been abused by DHS and enabled so much damage across the borderlands for more than two decades now. And can you talk a little more about how these border communities have been disrupted, especially the desert and the ecosystems of these communities? Yeah, the wall has already inflicted so much damage across the entire border region. We've seen walls go up through national park units like Oregon Pipe in Coronado National Memorial in Arizona. We're now seeing the huge fight to build walls across the sovereign Tahanatham Nation on the border.

border in Arizona. So when these walls go up, they are not following any of our nation's most important environmental laws. That means they're not doing meaningful surveys for indigenous grave sites or sensitive species. It means that they're not following laws like the Clean Air Act, the Clean Water Act. So tons of public health issues have arisen from wall construction. We have seen walls go up across the vast majority of my home state of Arizona. And that means that no wildlife larger than a jackrabbit is able to cross north or south. That's a direct threat to their survival and leads to localized extinction. We are doing everything in our power to protect the remaining wildlife corridors left along the border. And the Big Bend region is the

largest stretch of on walled borders. So we've got a ways to go. Interestingly, this injunction cannot be appealed to the Fifth Circuit. It's a bit of a poetic twist because the way they wrote these waivers, they actually did not allow for appellate court review. So if DHS wants to challenge this injunction, they're going to have to go straight to the Supreme Court, which is a process that, for one, takes some time. And for two, the Supreme Court has a lot on their docket. And there's some indications that, you know, the arguments that we've used to win this case are actually more favored by conservative justices. So this is a historic time. It's amazing. It feels, you know, It's the biggest win of my life, and it belongs to everybody who's been fighting so hard to stop this destruction across Big Bend.

And we should absolutely savor it. We want to thank you so much, Lake and Gjorda, for being with us, a 20-second response to what happened in Lokeal and your state of Arizona, with the large excavator brought in by the Border Patrol agents destroying more than 200-year-old Cottonwood. Yeah, just horrific. I mean, watching those videos of them toppling this ancient tree that was very likely older than the border itself is symbolic of how DHS has treated the border region. They see our communities, our wildlife, our nature as a sacrifice zone that have allowed presidents from both parties, honestly, to play out security feeder at the expense of our homeland. Lake and Jordan, we have to leave it there of the Center for Biological Diversity. joining us from Arizona. I'm Amy Goodman with Juan Gonzalez for another edition of Democracy Now.