DeProgram with John Kiriakou and Ted Rall - America: Closed for the Summer | DeProgram with Ted Rall and Jamarl Thomas

Episode Date: May 28, 2026

Conflict reporter/writer/cartoonist Ted Rall and political analyst Jamarl Thomas deprogram you from mainstream media every weekday at 9 AM EST. Today we discuss:• The Trump administration threatens to stop immigration processing for incoming international flights at major US cities with so-called sanctuary laws, which ban or limit local police from cooperating with federal immigration enforcement, to punish protests against ICE. It’s the start of summer tourist season.• The Justice Department has opened a criminal investigation into E. Jean Carroll, the 82-year-old former magazine writer who accused Trump of sexual assault. The investigation centers on whether she committed perjury when she won a $5 million civil judgment that Trump had sexually abused and defamed her, and a $83.3 million civil judgment against him in another defamation case.,• Middle East War: Trump warns that Oman, a US ally, “will behave just like everybody else, or we will have to blow them up.” Resignation is setting in across Lebanon that a meaningful end to the war between Israel and Hezbollah is not coming anytime soon. Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) says it has targeted an American air base in the region, after fresh US strikes on southern Iran, and oil prices are up.MERCH STORE: https://www.deprogram.livehttps://x.com/tedrallhttps://x.com/JamarlThomasLIVE ON RUMBLE: https://rumble.com/c/DeProgramShowSPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/2kdFlw2w8sSPhKI8NRx8ZuAPPLE MUSIC: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/deprogram-with-ted-rall-and-jamarl-thomas/id1825379504

Good morning. Thanks for tuning in to D-Program with Ted Raul and tomorrow, Thomas. It is Thursday, May 28th, 26. Don't want to give short shrift to the 28th. Thank you so much for joining us. Please like, follow, and share the show. We are here Monday through Friday, breaking down everything, all the news that matters, 9 a.m. to 10 a.m. Eastern. It's just FYI. Major tech glitches on the TMI front. That's not going to affect D-program, but TMI is like basically screwed the pooch, and we're not. could be able to do it today. I'm not even sure if we'll be able to do it tomorrow due to Rumble Studio glitches, but we'll work on that on our own time, not on yours. JT., good to see you,

lots of news to report, as always. So the top story is probably, well, it's hard to say it's a tie between the Middle East and the Trump administration's threat to basically cut off major parts of the United States to foreign tourism, basically because they're angry that the cities where these people are flying into are protesting ice. It's very, very strange. We'll get you into that. Lots of stuff going on in the Middle East, just as we went on the air about 20 minutes before we got a report that Iran had launched a ballistic missile at a U.S. military base in Kuwait. That was in retaliation for an American attack on Iranian facilities. That comes over a 24-hour period during which Trump warned Oman, which is a staunch U.S. ally going back 200 years, that it might blow them, he might blow them up if they join Iran in any kind of regulation or toll across the Strait of Ormuz.

The Lebanese are settling in for a long war against the Israelis who are determined not to stop this. Oil prices are rising again, given the fact that we have an exchange of strikes, and there doesn't seem to be a peace deal coming in anytime soon. And finally, E. Jean Carroll, the 82-year-old magazine writer who successfully sued Trump for defamation not once but twice and won $83 million, $88.3 million in civil judgments against him, basically. is now being targeted by the Department of a highly weaponized Department of Justice going after her. So lots to deal with. I know you like the Middle East. I mean, you know, we should probably do that first. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Okay. I'm sorry. The Eugene Carl thing was outrageous. I do like the Middle East first. But can we talk about that one first? This may be a TMI conversation still.

Okay. Let's do it. That case is effing outweigh. outrageous. 83. Like, for one, this is something that to place decades ago. B, there is no evidence for it, short of her saying he did this, meaning Trump is a pervert, at least my thoughts. Trump may even be a pedophile, fair enough. Proving it in a court of law are different things. And I know this is not in relation to her, but I'm saying just because he's not a great human being, that this idea in a court of law,

she's like, well, he touched me inappropriately. Okay, well, what evidence do you have? Do you have video evidence? No. Do you have any, you know, test, like, do you have anything that can decisively point out that he did this? The answer is no. And so it's her word against his.

And she walks up with $80 million or whatever that number is. Closer to 90. That's outrageous. That's outrageous. And mind you, I don't even like Trump. If Trump would have got shot at that White House Corresponds his dinner, there would be no tears on this show. If anything, I would say that got a little bit brighter.

The moment that it hit the ground, he should himself. Yeah. And I'm still saying it's outrageous. We'll give me your take on this. Because I think that they gave him this verdict just because it's Trump, not because it was illegal thing. It was almost like a reverse jury nullification. Well, I do think we need to.

to sort of remind people who may not remember all the details of the E. Jean Carroll case, what happened, right? So E. Jean Carroll was a high-profile newspaper columnist in the 90s. And she knew Donald Trump from partying in New York. She ran into him on the street. She mentioned that she was going to Lord and Taylor, which is a fancy department store on Fifth Avenue. He decided to tag along because, you know, that's normal.

They both wound up, by all accounts, they both wound up in the dressing room having sex. She apparently contemporaneously claimed that Donald had done so aggressively against her will. Basically, she was okay with making out, but things went further than she wanted and that he forced himself upon her. But she didn't do anything about it or reported to the police at the time. The many years past, the Me Too movement becomes a big thing. And then she decides to file a lawsuit, a civil claim for, you know, under New York's new law, which opened a window for one year for eliminating the statute of limitations on these old cases. He says she's a lying sack of shit.

She sues, she's like, she sues him for basically defaming her as a liar. She is the judge who clearly doesn't like Trump is in it agrees with her, rules in her favor. And then he doubles down and says, no, she's really still a lying sack of shit. And so that verdict, the judge is really mad this time, same judge, and decides to hit him with the bigger of the two of the two verdicts. It's just as you said, I mean, like there's no question that there was some consent. It's kind of a classic me-to case, right? It's sort of like, well, you know, like I consented partially, but not completely. And then also there's this long passage of time thing.

There's the whole he said, she said thing with where there's no sense of, you know, there's no evidence. No evidence is really possible, right? And so many years have gone by and who would be able to know anything, right? All I can say, by the way, parenthetically, is I know someone who knows E. E. Jean Carroll and swears that she's a very credible, serious human. human being and who would not have lied about this. Okay.

Really? But I don't know. It's not a Democrat. Oh, of course she is. Yeah. Yeah. I guess that's my point, right? Like,

home are right? I mean, so is that. So it was. So it was at the time. Well, yes, he was. Yes, he was. True. I mean, he was at Clinton's wedding.

Yeah. True. Yeah. But he's not now. No. So the point is like, so, but like all that said, look, as a dude, it terrifies me that you could be nailed. And I think also for our foreign viewers,

it's important to distinguish between civil claims and the standard of evidence in American courts between civil and criminal court cases. In a criminal case, you need to, the prosecutor has to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt, which sort of roughly literally means law students are told the juror, the juror has to be at least 90% sure that it happened. in a civil claim, which is what this is, it's based on the preponderance of the evidence,

which means that 50% or so or more, you should kind of be sure that it happened. So the standard is much lower in the case that she won. But it is, I mean, look, I generally agree with what you said. It wasn't, and the verdict is crazy, right? I mean, it's like, was she really harmed to the extent of, I mean, having been defamed a few times in public? I don't know that it's really worth $88 million to be called a liar by someone who's defending themselves on social media and basically, I mean, you know, I mean, in all these cases, right,

someone's telling the truth and someone's lying. By definition, someone's perjuring themselves, right, if they're under oath. So anyway, this isn't even about perjury. It's just about, like, calling someone a liar. How harmful is calling someone a liar? I don't know if it's $88 million harmful. But yeah, anyway. So now, here we go. Now, here we have two very, I think what we have is two very big wrongs that make just two very big wrongs. There's, you know, now you have Trump's who has obviously weaponized is DOJ going after all sorts of people with dubious morals, including like James Comey. But to the point where you're like, really, you're going out. You're going after James Comey over seashells, you're really, you're going after E. Jean Carroll, who's like

basically a death's door. Really? Like, it's just sort of like, I mean, this is one of those things where I'm like definitely megapox on both their houses, right? Yeah. I mean, let's be honest, the Justice Department under the Biden administration and the Obama administration went after Trump full war. I mean, in New York, they were trying to get him for hush money payment to a porn star. Now, this is as funny to me as Massey's selling the cow, the payoff. Who I'm right? Like hush money payment to a porn star, even like the way it sounds. But basically what the case brought down to was Donald Trump not claiming on the election form that he was paying, quote unquote, hush money to a porn star. Instead, he put

pay me to a lawyer. Right, who didn't pay the porn star. Same thing with Hillary Clinton, though. Hillary Clinton gets caught for the exact same thing. And instead, what they say is, we're going to give you a fine. For Trump, they didn't even do that because they didn't even consider it a crime, but then they turned it into a felony in New York. They went after him full board. The Justice Department was spying on his campaign. And then they joke and mocking him, say, oh, nobody's spying in this campaign. Come to find out. They were. So, too wrongs don't make a right. Look, they literally made him crazy. They drove him crazy. They gaslit him. And they literally, when I say they drove him crazy, he's now crazy as a result. I mean, Democrats did create this problem. They decided to, I mean, the law fair thing is real. That's true. But that also doesn't mean that he's not now crazy and doing things that are crazy and he shouldn't be doing. I hate him both, really. And here we are. And like, while they're dicking around, you know, with taxpayer, using taxpayer money on this shit and wasting valuable media bandwidth that we ought to be using to,

oh, I don't know, get help Americans put food on their table every day. Instead, you know, we're talking about this shit. It's the whole thing's a disaster. Yeah, agree. So let's let's do some, let's do some comments about this. We should talk about. Zach Dijkas Mansour. Ted believes her and all women.

No, I actually don't know. I don't believe her or disbelieve her. I wasn't in the dressing room in 1990, whatever it was. So I have no fucking idea what happened. You know, it's like, and I don't believe all women. I, you know, I listen to sides and I try to figure out what I believe. And often, I don't know who to believe. Right. That's really true.

By the way, just be clear. I don't believe or disbelieve. Right. It's like, I don't know. I guess my point of view is the law should be a bit different. Like, meaning there should be something there where they could be like, okay, she's obviously telling the truth or he's obviously lying. And we're talking about something that took place like 25 years ago.

Yeah, I think for that reason alone, I mean, look, the stat, I was very disturbed when Governor Andrew Cuomo of all people passed a law into place allowing lawsuits, getting rid of the statute of limitations. I mean, the statute of limitations is there for good reason. And with a civil claim like this, I mean, effectively, it turns on the head the American notion that you're guilty until you're innocent until proven guilty. I mean, really truly, if, you know, in Trump's situation, he was in a position where he needed to prove that he was innocent. And it's impossible. I mean, you know, I'm not going to get into my case, but the details of my case were 15 years old when I went to court, right?

And it was impossible, even though there were dozens of eyewitnesses at the time, to locate a single one who was able to step forward and say what they saw, right? You know, it was on the street in L.A. But I couldn't find anyone, even though, you know, the case was all over the place. It was national news. It was, you know, in all the local press. It didn't matter. So can you imagine this happened in a dressing room where, by the way, the door, it's not one of those ones where the door is like, you know, has a space like a foot high. Gordon Taylor's, they went all the way down to the ground. It was like a door that shut.

You're really like, you know, real. So, I mean, come on. I mean, look, I mean, if you went to Bloomingdale's or Macy's and, you know, had sex in there, The odds are that the person who is the guardian of that place is going to hear you and kick your ass out, your horny asses out. I don't know what happened. And it's, I mean, but I, I mean, I have to always, I always tend to side with the accused because it's like, that's the most difficult position to be in. And the accused, if the accused has a defense, they should be able to make it. In this case, I don't know how you could make it.

You know, I mean, you know. And I really hate Trump. I do hate Trump. No, no, I mean, I'm saying I know that the judge and these people hate Trump. That's true. It adds a bias to it that I can't ignore in regards to a verdict, especially with $80 million. Like, meaning it's one thing if you say, I'm awarding them $2 million. Okay, fair enough.

80 million gets across. You hate this guy. Like, this is. Right. I mean, seriously. I said, like, listen, yeah, it's, you know, I mean, like, maybe for you and me, like, a $10,000 is going to really pinch. But, you know, Donald Trump's a rich guy. So maybe it's true.

Like, to make it hurt, you've got to hit him for one or two million. There's some countries where, like, if you get a speeding ticket, they look at your income and they charge you accordingly, which I like that idea. But, yeah, that's, it's a crazy story. But I will say, I don't, now we are where we are, right? We can't go back in time. Fuck the Democrats. They were assholes. But now he's being the asshole.

And revenge is not justice, you know? And this is revenge. This is revengeist shit. And it's like, I mean, who can ever trust the Department of Justice going forward after the weaponization that has taken place by both parties? Yeah, a degradation of the political. This is why I keep saying there's a declaration. degradation in our political space. This is not supposed to happen. We're political parties effectively contort the government to go after political opponents. That's banana republic.

Totally. Totally. So by the way, just a reminder, if you have questions and you're watching live here in the 9 a.m. hour Eastern time in the United States, please go ahead and put your questions and comments into Rumble and YouTube in the live chat. And producer Robbie West we'll put it up for us. Let me see if there's any ads, because it's been kind of a while since we had an ad, but I don't know. I ask Robbie, why are we not getting ads these days? It's the end of the month.

So the budget is pretty much used up. Oh, okay. So it's kind of like, so fewer ads, more traffic tickets. Got it. Okay. Pretty much. Yeah. Okay.

Thank you, Robbie. The beatings will continue. All morale improves, yeah. Okay. So Philip Blair, E. Dean Carroll's case was overseen by Judge Lewis Kaplan, the same judge who oversaw the absurd case against Stephen Donsiger. No, fucking. Are you serious? That man should, that judge should be in prison for what he did to Stephen Donsiger.

Yeah, he should be. He's a fucking menace. I mean, it's like if you are in the New York courts and you draw, and the curtain, The clerk draws that judge for your case. You're fucked. I mean, the man's a maniac. It wasn't by accident. I don't believe for a moment they drew him by accident.

I don't believe for a moment that E. Jean Carroll drew him back. No, it doesn't work that way. Again, LA Times callback, right? So, like, when I went to the appellate division in the L.A. courts, my lawyer, and I consulted with my lawyers, and I'm like, oh, how's it going to go? What are the political leadings of the justices? They said, well, there's 16 panels. one out of the 16 is right-wing conservative 15 out of the S-16 are progressive lefties.

I'm like, oh, so we should be in good shape. They're like, guess which panel I got, right? Conservative. I got the right-wing ones, right? Where the fix was in, hey, we have it. We do have an ad, although, yeah, let's do it. We'll do Rumble wallet. Okay, here we go.

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Rickman Lies She got it from a Law and Order episode Actually it was a low in order episode I guess I heard that Yeah I mean Now I want to do that music

Bailu My Booth Funk Me Too is a sciop And it is bad for women It is Me Too was very toxic for sure It ended up being toxic But it's like anything.

Like you go through pendulum swings. I would argue the civil rights movement, the woke stuff is a remnant of civil rights. The woke stuff. Yeah. Like meaning you go from, okay, African Americans, okay, yeah, we need to do something about African Americans. Great because of a rights movement, etc.

Then you have homosexuality. So you get like willing grace and you get movement on that front. But what happens if you just keep going in a particular direction? inevitably you're going to get to you know a clip i guess i'm saying like the pendulum swings it does i mean but you know it's not right i mean um you know it's like i've had this argument uh recently with some friends it's like you know about like you know like honorary degrees i was going to write about this like in the latest round of college graduation commencement ceremonies they're all going to like women right they're all going to women um and it's kind of like it's a little absurd

come on, men have contributed some things to our society. Of course. And it's kind of like, or like, you know, the Pulitzer Prizes are definitely have gone full woke. And you're like, okay, well, you guys had your whole thing. And I'm like, okay, well, that's fine. But that's what your talk advocating is injustice. It's revenge.

And revenge and justice are not the same thing. If I am, if I am South Africa, South Africa. apartheid ends. ANC takes over. Because of the advantages that were institutionalized from, let's say

the white South Africaners. Sure. They effectively, despite the fact that the ANC is in charge now, they still own like 90% of the land and whatnot. If I... Zimbabwe went differently, right? Like they stripped away.

they stripped away a lot of the farmland from the whites. Well, that's what I'm getting at. At some point, don't you have to balance those skills? And of course, the people who are like, oh, this is injustice. This is unfair. It's like, but dude, but you have 90% because of X number of years that you were able to effectively control the political space and steal territory. Like, meaning, I'll begin my point.

How do you balance that? I mean, really hard. It is hard. And I guess, and from the people who are there, they think this is unfair. Yeah, they feel like, hey, we bought it. It's like, we bought it fair and square. Those were the rules of the time. Now you're coming along and changing the rules.

I'm trying to balance the equation. And I guess my thing is they're looking at the woke stuff is trying to balance the equation. I agree with you. The shit is that right. Like meaning, if you're screwing with my Star Trek and you're making Star Trek discovery, I'm going to hate you for it.

I don't want to get about your woke stuff. I don't want to hear about you're using a wrong pronoun. Star Trek. Don't do that to my Star Trek. That is not balancing the equation. All what's happening is like, you know, old white dudes, you know, they sit there and they just listen and they're like flat affect, quiet.

Usually they don't say anything. Then they go vote for Trump or you know, or they like secretly harbor like right wing racist beliefs. And that's the part that's dangerous, I think. Like, you know, that people don't appreciate. Like, I mean,

you know, when when South Africa did the truth and reconciliation commissions rather than send like these white cops to prison where they belonged, I remember thinking like Nelson Mandela is gay. Like they should like nail these fuckers. And years later, I realized he was right. He was wise. It's like, you know, because it was like more important than revenge was like we've got to put a society together. And it's like, and we want to definitely figure out what happened. and why. And, but like, we've got to move on at some point. We can't just keep like, you know, a Middle East style, you know, like tit for tat shit forever and ever.

Right. It's, it's, you know, it's, it is hard, though. It is hard because like, I remember I had, you know, I had Taiwanese relatives when I was married. And they had land reform in the, in the 40s. The, one of the members of the family had like a, have vast property holdings and owned the monopoly for beer on the island of Taiwan, like Taiwan here at Silicon. And when they came in and did land reform kind of competing with the communists, they took it away. And the family's still like, and they just stole it.

We built it. Our family built it. And they just fucking stole it from us. And they're all these years later, they're still pissed. And I'm like, yeah, but I mean, I see, I really can. argue it both ways. Yeah. I mean, I guess my point is how do you balance an equation?

It's that part. And I get human beings are going to look at it from their own individual context, you know, especially if it's something that they're. They took it. They still, they removed it from me. I built this, et cetera, despite the fact that you may have an institutional structure that allow you to do that at the expense of somebody else. Because that other person also will say, I'm being effed over. I'm being screwed over, et cetera, et cetera,

because of the way the system is cutting in a particular way. How do you balance the equation? And I guess that's the... Like, in my opinion, all the Israelis should be kicked out of the West Bank, every last one of them, right? But then they're going to be furious because it's like, I bought this place.

These are my legal savings. I mean, I don't... I still would kick them out. But it's kind of like, I would... My argument would be like, well, you knew that when you moved there. You knew that it was legally fraud, and that you didn't have a good claim, right?

And you knew this could happen someday. So you took a gamble and you lost. That's what I would say. Yeah. I think these woke people are looking at it to those lenses, but I think they've gone far too far. I think they've gone too far. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

All right, here we go. Only time we'll tell. A bad sexual experience can't equate, I think, equate to sexual abuse unless it's a non-consensual. Act, well, Carol's argument was that it was a non-consensual act. So Skylowski, so the logic is believing Trump over her? How does that work? No, I don't believe either.

I don't believe. I mean, like, it's unknowable to me. That's my point. And if you're in a court of law and something is unknowable, then how do you award 80 million dollars? That's my issue. It's not that I think Trump is a great person. And it's not that I think Trump is honest.

There's just that there's enough reasonable doubt to drive a truck through. Yeah, I just don't know. I'm stuck in the I don't know phase. Now, you could say, well, you should automatically believe her. I don't know her from a hole in a while. Yeah, I don't automatically believe anyone, you know? Yeah. It's like, I don't automatically believe myself.

I check in with myself. Like, wait, did that really behaving because of this way? Like, am I taking this action because of this? Yeah, do I have brainworm? You know, only time will tell. no fucking way do I feel comfortable with a needy woman making advances at me. They use sex as bait

and a tool to bludgeon you to death. I think despite the paranoia there, I think it's really important to engage with that feeling because I think post me too, a lot of men and young men in particular and boys, they're like really afraid of romance and dating because they think they're going to end up in college, like at a Title IX hearing.

they're you know it's it's rampant um there you know it's kind of like better not to take a chance i mean i'm you know i went to college in the early 80s and then in the early 90s when i went back right and even at that time my members just thinking like dating's dangerous like if a woman's like oh like i'm drunk can i crash at your place i'd be like no you'd need to go home put her in a taxi and like why? It's because I don't want any, I want to minimize my legal, possible legal exposure

if someday she decides she just doesn't like me for some reason and wants to fuck me over and wants to use that accusation power. And so now, that's back then, you know, in the early days of take back the night and stuff. And now, and the thing is, the problem is, like,

these women are responding to something super big and super real, which was raped, culture was like ramp and ass grabbery and like date rape and, you know, spiking people's drinks and all that disgusting shit that went on for thousands of years and it's still going on. And so they're right to be up in arms about it. But like they're up being up in arms is like, I don't know. It's like really fucking up our society because, you know, like literally young couples aren't

even launching. They're not even meeting and getting together because of this fear. Like, oh my God, better just to keep it zipped. See, I didn't have an issue with Me Too in the beginning because I thought it was necessary. It was a response, like the Harvey Weinstein's of the world. Harvey Weinstein was doing that you for like 20, 30 years. I mean, disgusting. I remember one story was like he made me stand there as he masturbated into a plant.

And I was like, ugh, what's the plant do? Like, why are you doing that to that plant, let alone? It is mind-blowing to me that you as a man can stand there and whack off with a woman sitting and looking at you and disgust as you do it. That's mind-blown. But again, this is what some of the stuff that these guys were doing. When they were handing over when Epstein recommended a secretary, oh, who's a person you know them if I name them? And you think to yourself, they're passing women around, knowing full well these women are going to be molest. when they get into a particular place or harassed.

Okay, this is outrageous. Fox News is a really good example. The story, there's a TV show or there's a movie on what was taking place in Fox News where they went after Rupert Murat because of... Oh, right, right, right, right, right. Not even keep his hands off of people. This was culture.

So I don't take issue with Me Too kind of responding to that culture. But to your point, the law of unexpected consequences, which is I now need to... contract if we're going to have sex. Right. I need you to sign. Right. I'm right here. And initial here, initial here. All right. Let's get the action.

Okay, I don't want that. I remember like the situation. It's like the Antioch College rules. Do you remember those when those were like sort of like it was a proto-me-to stuff? And it was like, okay, so the college

told their students. All right. So when every single step of the way in a seduction must be consented to verbally. So it's like, so I did a car. It doesn't work that way. At the time, I would now like to look smoldering at you, smolderingly at you. Is it okay if I now look smolderingly at you? Yes, Ted Rawl. It is now acceptable to me. It's like, excellent. Now I would like to stroke your right forearm at this point in a vaguely oval pattern, is that acceptable to you?

Yes, it is acceptable to you to me. It's like, literally, that was the Antioch rules. I mean, there were so many, like, S&L skits about it. And it makes, that's where we're at, I guess. Nobody does that in practice. No, it's not, that's not. It stops a man for being a man. Like, and what I mean about that is,

just to be very clear, I don't mean, like, you know, hit a woman over ahead, drag it through the cage. But let's be honest. Let's be honest. And I know it's all men here having this conversation, so I accept that. Women like men to be men. And what I mean by that is, this women, I would argue, and women could be in the chat. They can correct me if I'm wrong on this. In many respects, as a whole, prefer men to be, A, confident, and B, to be willing to show that they are, are attracted and want them, meaning they want to be wanted. And they want men to demonstrate that passion in wanting them. Obviously, that is not going to be, can I touch your arm right now?

It's not going to be that. No. Is that they want to be raped, nor is it they want to be groped or anything like that? I'm talking about in a case what they actually want that attraction. But they, yeah, they want to do. Yeah, but men can't always tell. well men are not always good younger lady friends who tell me that

like a big problem with like millennial guys that they can't close the deal like you know basically like you're fucking around like we all know we've been we're dating we're on a date whatever we all know what we want to have happen and the and the woman expects the guy to be like

hey want to come to my place but like he's like okay that was a nice night have a good one and then like maybe they text and maybe they don't text and probably the guys thinking, oh, I don't know, she wasn't really into me. And, like, look, to be honest, you know, I come out of this from a completely different set of experiences because I was like one of eight guys in a dorm with 500 women in college.

So I didn't have to get it. So, I mean, you know, they would come around and, like, be like, hey, do you want to come to my place? So I didn't have to worry about it. But for most guys, you know, they have to, they have, it's still that kind of culture, women expect men to make move. And then like, but men, but women have now made women, men terrified of making the move. That's the problem. The move. The move.

Yeah, when I was in college, we had COVID dorm. And within the first night, I was hooking up with it. But that was a little different, though, right? Because it was, it was across the hall. And we just kind of clicked. Yeah. Recently, and I'll tell one of my recent experiences. If there is no chemistry, there is no chemistry.

And it kind of is what it is. And I did not know that she thought that there was a there there. If that makes sense. Yeah. We go out on a date and I'll call it a date. And to be honest, I chose, I asked her to go out because I didn't want to go by myself. It was a co-play symphony. I didn't want to go by myself.

And you can't really ask a guy to go with you to a symphony that just feels weird. Like, hey, Bob, want to go with me to a symphony? Are you out your phone? No. D. Dirt. You, too. Right.

Right, right. So we go. And afterwards, I'm like, all right. We obviously have no chemistry. Like, meaning, I knew we didn't have chemistry on day when. For me, if we have chemistry, I know within the first 20, 30, seconds. I'm like, oh my God, I love that woman. I'm going to marry that woman. That's me, right? I am, when I am over the moon, I am over the moon. It's clear. It's not ambiguous.

And she sends me a text. And she's like, yeah, I felt some kind of way. That was a paintball issue where she got shot at the paintball. She thought I should have jumped to her defense. I thought she was out of her mind. And she unleashed hit learning in rage at the paintball event, which also put off my family and put off me. But besides the point, she says me a text says, yeah, you're a bit insecure. It's not really insecurity. It's just I wasn't interested. And I wanted something, how did she say?

You're a bit insecure and it was something else. And I read the text, think to myself, okay, I didn't know there was a thing, first of all. Two, what you are considering insecurity, maybe a little bit, just because they were, everything that's been happening over the course of the last three months. But it's not really entirely insecurity. It's just something that's into you. Like, the relationships are complicated. And when you add on top of this idea of,

okay, if I make a move on her, is this going to be received? And is this going to come back, bite me in the ads later on if she considers the move to be so-and-so? Yeah, that's a lot to add on the men. I mean, it's rough. And we need to move on and hit a few more comments and we have to talk about the Middle East. But we obviously could talk about this for hours. It's fascinating.

I was on the New York subway a few months ago. And I overheard some Gen Z like women, parcel of them. They were obviously like all hanging out together and going out like, you know, drinking on the town. They were like six or whatever. And I was really taken by like one of them was saying like, Can you believe that guy at the bar? Like, he just hit on you. He, like, asked you out, and they were all like, ew.

And I was, like, listening for, like, oh, he was so ugly or he was so inappropriate. Uh-uh. Literally, the generic idea that a man would just walk up and express his interest to a woman in a public place is culturally anathema to at least these women that, And I think it's becoming more like that. I mean, it's literally just like all the young men I talk to, they're like literally like, yeah, I don't date. And I'm like, what? How are you not? How do you not date?

It's like, yeah, it's just not worth it. And that's why I probably don't create them said, because they can be. The culture has changed that much. Yeah, I was like, yeah. I mean, it used to operate for me. No. I mean, well, I'm sorry, that's not the way you used to operate. Women at college.

I was a fly on the wall because I lived in that girl's dorm. So I would hear the day, you know, after a while, I'm just like, they're ignoring me and they're just talking amongst themselves and I can hear it. They didn't talk like that. They had all sorts of gross things to say, like, about like how they only wanted to date guys who had a lot of money or whatever, but they still were interested in guys. And they didn't begrudge a guy for trying, you know. my son is 16 yeah i'm pop up by myself then i'm gonna do this so he so he's earned 17 this year

and he has had his first girlfriend she just broke up with him and so no it's teenage puppy love it is what it is yeah no now no he's going fishing again no he's back in the old back in the old pool and this is calispell montana the high school is a population of 200 students it's it's not huge okay and let the girls just like no we don't want to do date. Guys, guys are predators. This is the middle of nowhere. I can only imagine what it's like

in the cities where you all live. It's a feminism is a poison. It is a poison. It is a destructive force. Wow. Not the theory of feminism. I mean, feminism just on paper.

Feminism as is currently being practiced. No, if you have If great humanism is toxic, I would agree. No, we have two genders. You got guys and girls. You have anys and outies. That's it. It's a binary choice.

And if you've conditioned the female of the species to look at the male and say, I don't need you, I don't want you. At best, you're disgusting. At worst, you're a dangerous predator. Then how can a society possibly continue to exist? I mean, we need to put this ideology where it belongs to the dust. of history of Nazism, communism. Oh, come.

These are, these are things. Really? Womenists are Nazis. I mean, seriously. This is a, this is a, this is a social pathogen of the highest order. Robbie, you had me until you went there.

No, I'm talking about it. If you say, because for my point of view, look, from my point of view, there's nothing wrong with schoolgirl feminism. I'm a woman. I can do it. my own thing, et cetera, et cetera. I think it gets toxic when it gets to, like, extremes. But Nazism, oh, that's a little strange.

Well, I mean, well, think about it. The Nazis, for all of their faults, didn't want to commit the cultural suicide in Germany. They want to borrow a Trumpism. We won't make Germany great again. They don't have leaving strong. They have placed nothing to grow. But, I mean, they didn't know. Well, anti-Semitism was a form of cultural suicide because, in his own,

Hell, political suicide, because they literally kicked out the guy who could build the A bomb for them. No, listen, I get it. But the point that I'm trying to make, though, is that if you train 52% of the population, at least a significant minority, if not a majority of them, to think that the people who build your roads, build your buildings, fight your wars for you are dangerous predators and that you should have nothing to do with them, I honestly don't know how that society can possibly continue to exist because without kids, you can't exist. You die. I mean, that's the problem here.

And that's where I'm going with this. To me, the issue is extremes. I don't see an issue with, I mean, again, this stuff is a pendulum. I mean, you go to the mad, what is it, the mad men, for example, the TV show. Like, you go through a period like that where women are stuck in class, women are in the, thing. And in the same way, you had black soul and sign saying, I am a man, or I'm black and I'm proud. Okay, why were they doing that? Because for the longest time, everything in the society had pointed into the direction that these people are somehow lesser, inferior, etc.

In which case, you get this kind of cultural revolution of, I'm black and I'm proud, I'm a man, and et cetera. So I think it's true for women. And I guess I'm saying feminism is the extension of that. This idea of women in the workplace, women can be. engineers. Women can do this. Women can take it off. I don't think this is feminism. I don't think this is feminism because what you're talking about. I'm not getting what it is. I mean, listen, I like women. I like women so long as so much. I've been married to one for 20 years in October. I like women a lot. There's a lot of things in this world. I don't like. I do like myself some women though, all right? Basically, lesbian opinions have become mainstream across hetero female spaces. You know,

kind of like Andrea Dorkin, who ironically ended up getting married to a dude in the end. But, you know, it's the dorkinization of stuff. You know, yeah, I mean, it's like, because it's that thing. It's like men are bad, you know, inherently. Like just as a group, like, is it a man? It's bad. It's just, I've seen this before. I'm sure you all have to go away because nobody has more to talk about. I've had people tell me that because I was.

born a white male, I am inherently an evil person. That's like the most racist thing you possibly say. If I said that about any other group, I would be condemned rightly so as a bigot. It's obviously disgusting. Yeah. And it's okay to say it about white men, but not only just white men, but men in general. And until women realize this is not true, this is false, and if I want to one day have a family, maybe be able to have something called a legacy, maybe not have my if my eggs dry up and wither away before I'm able to have a kid, maybe you should probably stick up for the guys who got the grapes between their legs, because you're going to need them one day.

If you hate them, they're not going to show up. Let's move on because we have 15 minutes to cover our remaining stories here. Okay. Captain Obvious, thanks for the $9 donation. Check it out the Mouse Utopia and the Calhoun experiment. We're at the stage where many women are alienated from each other. feminist is just a byproduct of industrialization. Yeah, mouse utopia is. Do you know what that is? No.

So a guy was doing experiment where he effectively said, okay, we're going to give basically rats exactly what they need. They see whether or not this makes happier rats. It did not be happy rats. In fact, from them to sake, it kept dying out over and over and over again. He kept trying to figure out why are they dying up? And what they think is. is because they put them in a room together and you give them everything they need and everything else, that what they ultimately end up wanting was like this ability to, God, if I remember this experiment, right?

They kept dying out, despite the fact that they were giving them everything that they needed. But it was status that was the issue that they didn't have or something like that. Because usually rats could go into their own place. They could set up their own thing. He could be the alpha male in his own case. But in this case, because they were locked in a confined space

that they weren't necessarily able to do it. Basically, they gave them everything that they wanted to create utopia, and they still kept dying up year after year after. I have to look into that. And we do have one, we have to have this comment. Black Beauty, we women are tired of men's perverted behavior. Yes, men are tired of men's perverted behavior, too. But, yeah.

But that's not all men. I guess that's one point. It's making us all look like shit, for sure. Yeah. All right. So let's move on here. Middle East, we, so Trump's threatening Oman, I think we can dismiss that as basically just Trump being Trump, although it's insane. Lebanon war, that's important.

That's going to keep going because the Israelis are doing their own thing now. And that's what happens when you crawl into bed and go into a business war partnership with an unreliable, crazy, thief person like Benjamin Nett. anyway, now there's been an exchange of fire, not surprising, and oil prices are going up. I'm increasingly doubtful that there's going to be any kind of resolution, you know, peaceful resolution to this. But it's kind of like, what I can't, what's breaking my brain, J.T, is there has to be because the whole global economy tanks, if there isn't. But there can't be because Trump's not capable of doing what's necessary to make it happen.

So what happens? Isn't that fascinating? It is. And I hate to say fascinating because I realize oil is, you know, diesel is like a 550, 550, 560 gas is like 550 on average here, which for the American context, if you're a foreigner, that is high. I know for foreigners, that's like, where are you complaining about? That sounds great. Yeah, it's breaking my brain, too. It's the presidential hubris and narcissism

hefted against the global and American economy. And what's sad is, I don't know where it goes. Like, meaning that's sad, because all things are you think to yourself, well, obviously, the president's bias is going to be the American economy. I mean, he's certainly not going to let the economy collapse. Hefted against his narcissism and hubris. I don't know if he saw the bluster at the press conference that Trump was at. Oh, Al-Wan is going to behave.

or else, or else what? We're going to blow him up. And I don't know if he notices, but Oman and Iran have been making arrangements in order to manage the strait of Ramos, which means they're not giving it up. They're creating a regimental organization to control it. So, you know, the idea that Trump is going to somehow get a better deal than the JCPOA is nonsense. And the idea that the U.S. is not going to make concessions in order to end it. It's nonsense. Otherwise, it's not going to end. And so now you have these guys exchanging fire. Initially, Iran said that they bombed the U.S. military base. Kuwait says their air defense went off, so people assumed that the attack was on Kuwait.

And at this point, I think that's the way it's considered to be that the attack was on Kuwait base. The U.S. bombed Iran also. So even though they called it a ceasefire, these guys are exchanging fire directly, which doesn't quite seem like a ceasefire. Nope. I thought they were going to be more strikes. And that's state with it. I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't in the Ukraine war despite the fact that it was clear Ukraine was losing the war.

I think the same thing is going to be true here. He's, he's, he's stuck, hubris versus economy. Yeah, yeah. Um, I mean, I don't know how it plays out. Uh, you know, I mean, you know, as on Myers-Briggs, I'm, I'm, I'm an I'm, NTJ, supposedly. And, you know, irrational behavior, like, basically is something we don't relate to. We can't connect to.

Like when people are just wallowing in emotions and not seeing, especially when there's a clear, obvious decision to be made here. I mean, it's a clear, obvious decision. I mean, you have to be, you know, a retard, not to just to see what Trump needs to do. So if, you know, it's like Trump, you got to, he's got to bring this in and like, kind of like, you know, this is, you know, you can probably, you have some leverage with the Iranians. You have their money. Yeah. You know, they want normalization.

They would love a friendship or alliance even with the United States and Europe. They'd love to be, you know, reintegrated into the global economy. So you have stuff that you can trade, but you need to make it happen and you need to make it happen yesterday. And when he they're not, he's like, oh, I have all the time in the world. I'm in no rush. He's like, look how long Vietnam and Afghanistan went. I'm like, both of those wars destroyed multiple presidencies and were incredibly unpopular and are widely viewed as mistakes by the American public. So that's what you're comparing it to.

I mean, it's just, it. Yeah. Yeah, I get it. Well, I was going to say different. and this is cost. I mean, I know you can say they destroyed presidencies. True. But they didn't destroy America as an empire.

No. I think the difference with this one is, I don't think Trump fully grasp the depths of his failure in this. Like meaning, you're, it's like, dude, you are, they are attacking you economically. These attacks, yeah, sure, the military strikes from the standpoint of the U.S.

From Iran's standpoint, they are hitting the home front directly in a way that none of these wars is done before. Yeah. I mean, like, meaning if Trump has been using the strategic oil reserve to try to cut down on the cost of oil that people are buying gas when they're going to the gas bomb. He's been doing this stuff constantly over the course of the entire war to try to lower gas prices. It's at $450. It's not working. or it's working, but obviously it gets across how bad it is. He's been manipulating oil markets by saying the war is almost coming to a close.

I don't even know why people still respond to it, frankly. I don't know either. I don't understand why these oil traders, oil futures traders, like, your job is just to think about money. It's just numbers. You're not supposed to be thinking about what you want to have happened. You've got to be thinking about what you think is going to happen. And like, come on, nobody thinks this war is over.

and we're going to be over any time soon. And Trump, I mean, Trump keeps, he's the boy, I don't know, who cried sheep or something, because he constantly keeps saying, oh, pieces at hand, you know. They want Iran to deal, and it's like, but then it never is because he blows something up in Iran, right? I mean, it's so fucked up. But that's just it, though.

The empire, like, I don't, I never, the reason why I thought there were going to be more strikes is because I didn't believe that the empire could accept losing to regional power without testing the hell out of that regional empire, meaning it's going to test the shit out of it. It doesn't want to accept failure or loss. And so it puts as much pressure as it possibly can, even after it is effectively went through the military campaign. I don't know if we can leave this without trying to test Iran's ability. need to withstand it again, which is why I keep thinking that's going to be strikes. But be very clear, though, what that means is that when Iran responds, and if they go after infrastructure, if they go after

smashing Saudi Arabia and Bahrain and UAE, et cetera, and I mean going after like infrastructure in that sense, there is no oil to deliver short of what's in those tankers. And the years that it takes to replenish or to rebuild infrastructure and everything else, that means that the world just goes without for a period of time. Like, I don't, like, man, we need to get the gravity of those in real terms. But we'll see. I don't know what he does, which is sad because it's an obvious, it should be an obvious answer. Call it today.

Speaking of lunacy, I guess we should take this rumble rant from Manchild, thanks for the dollar. Threatening to blow up Oman, did Trump skip the art of the deal and go straight to the gun, boat diplomacy of 1850? Well, we did. Yes, he did. Yes, he did. So, all right, we have a few minutes left. The Trump administration, they floated this, and I didn't want to talk about it when it happened a few days ago, but they're still talking about it. They're getting spicy about the fact that there have been some kind of pretty small protests against ice in cities like New York.

And so the Trump administration is now thinking, saying in retaliation, retaliation against home, they're going to basically close down the customs and immigration processing at major airports like John F. Kennedy International Airport, just in time for the summer travel tourism season so that when foreigners come to cities where these protests are happening, they're basically going to be turned away because they can't be processed into the United States. They can't have their passport stamped. I assume that this will not actually happen because it's so stupid. But I guess, I mean, even the fact that they're bringing it up, I mean, the United States is not really an appealing place to travel to these days. You just know it's going to be like they're taking your biometric information.

They're charging you all these extra fees. They're making very clear that they don't want you. And now this, I mean, tourism's important. Connectivity to the rest of the world is important. International business travel is important. You know, I mean, what is this about? Is this just, you know, like, again, Fortress America signaling to the base? Is that all it is?

But it's dumb. It's just dumb. And it's self-inflicted injury. I mean, if you think of, for one, tourism is down significantly. There's that already. Many people don't want to come here because the fool's. in charge of here in the way that America looks at this point. It's effectively a rogue, degenerate, deranged government that has gone on a murder spree around the globe and is backed

a murder spree in the Middle East. So it's not like the most appealing place in the world to travel to in the moment. But the people who, for whatever particular reason, decide that we do want to come here, yeah, it's dumb. I mean, like, you think of the amount of money that America may get through travel, you think of the businesses that are going to be damaged when that money is not coming through, because I would imagine those businesses expect a certain amount of travel each year, especially during the summer months. That is not beneficial to this country. And it was the same thing is true, by the way, when they were going after to Chinese students. If you think of the scientists that are coming out of China because of the engineering and tech that they have mastered,

or the very least that they're big into, especially from the standpoint of their schools, if you're turning those kids away, you're turning away talent, which was one of the big things that America was able to leverage was talent from the rest of the world. Okay, you're turning all of that away now. Like meaning this is a self-inflicted wound. It's dumb. He can do it, but it's dumb.

Yeah, no, I mean, and the other thing is I don't see the connectivity. I don't, you know, when you're threatening, let's say a city like New York, okay, Okay, so what do you exactly want, in that case, Mayor Mundani to do? Do you want him to sick the NYPD on the anti-ice protesters? Do you want your cops? Do you want to revoke them to revoke their sanctuary city, you know, designation so that they cooperate more fully with ice?

I assume both of those. But, you know, it's not going to happen. I mean, even if Omdani privately hates immigrants, For some reason, he can't do that. Politically, the people of his city won't allow that. The Sanctuary City thing is so popular in New York that Rudy Giuliani used to do ads promoting it on TV. Really? Yeah, when he was mayor.

Yeah, it's like, don't worry if I'm an immigrant, you've got your back. We will never cooperate with the federal authorities to deport you. I mean, it's not even a political issue. It's like baked in, you know. So it's like being into ribs in North Carolina. You just are, you know, so I don't know. I didn't know it was that popular. Like, I knew it was popular.

I didn't realize it was that popular in New York. Oh, yeah. No, you won't find anyone who. So it's just, but it's also like, so you're asking, you know, you're basically pressuring someone to do something that they can't do. So what's the point of it? It's very nativist. And maybe it is for the base.

Okay, that's how far. I don't know what's going on. Well, this is a good time to let you go. Have a good day. Hope their building's not burning down. I'll see you tomorrow here on Deep Program. DMZ Ameripakha podcast coming up at 11 a.m. Eastern Time.

No TMI due to tech issues that I'm going to try to fix in the next hour so that we can be back tomorrow at 10 a.m. Thanks very much. Bye, bye, bye, bye, bye. And there we can.